Navigating the Paranormal: Phill Webster's Journey into the Afterlife

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Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Phil Webster. What if mystical experiences are real? What if inspiration, instinct, and ingenuity are the same as intuition, divination, and clairvoyance? Phil's written a book called Letting Glow, and it's an adventure into mediumship and takes a deeper look at how we experience things like time, consciousness, and our relationship to our higher self, all the stuff we like to talk about here on Grief to Growth. It's a profoundly personal account of grief during the global COVID-19 pandemic. And it aims at finding solace and hope by connecting with our intuition, intuition.. And he says that simple changes in thinking, meditation exercises, and shifting our perspectives on everyday reality can transform our lives into ones of intense purpose and deeper connection with all that is. Now, Phil himself is a writer, he's an author, and he's a spiritual teacher. And after living abroad for 20 years, he returned to the UK where he resides now, and he ventured into acting. He's since gone on to appear in movies alongside people like Sylvester Stallone, Benedict Cumberbatch, and Elle Fanning, among others. Phil lost his mother in 2021 and realized he had been dismissing spiritual calls to action his entire life. And he writes about that in his book, again, Letting Go. Phil has since trained with indigenous shamans from North and South America, as well as world-renowned mediums like James Van Praagh, Gordon Smith, and Claire Broad. He's also studied female spirituality in the Middle Ages at the University of Barcelona. And is a trained meditation teacher as well as a personal trainer. So with that, I want to welcome Phil to Grief to Growth.

Hi, Brian, thank you very much. Thanks. Yeah, that always sounds like such a lot. But most of those things, they just came from never knowing what I wanted to do with my life. So just stacking these things up along the way.

That's kind of the way I find life works. You know, it just, we never know what path we're going to take to get to where we are. And I feel like we do take the path that's the right one for us. So you talk about you had some, I guess, spiritual experiences earlier in your life, What was it that finally triggered you to, to awakening, I guess, for lack of a better word?

Well, there were a couple of things along the way, which sort of came to light in hindsight of what happened around my mom passing, which is kind of really the main catalyst for writing the book, and which really sent me down this path completely. So just, yeah, just straight off with that, we've just been through the pandemic 2020. And We all know about that. And my mom lived in a place called the Isle of Wight, which is an island which is south of England, and it's a good few hours away from where I'm based in London. And I was adhering to the government guidelines and all that kind of stuff, and I was seeing her where I was allowed to and keeping away when we wasn't supposed to. And I hadn't seen her for a couple of months at this point. She was supposed to come to London for Christmas, but then once again, there was a new variant of COVID or something and we didn't end up seeing each other for Christmas. So over this whole year, she'd sort of grown increasingly lonely, somewhat depressed. She was 76 years old and had various age-related health problems. But we would FaceTime every day. And on this particular day, it was about 2 weeks into 2021, and I'd already spoke to her a couple of times that day. And again, we were in a lockdown, and this was quite late at night when I had this conversation with her. It was like 9:30, 10:00. And just to sort of give a little bit of perspective around this, we didn't have any family there on the Isle of Wight. She was very much on her own and it's a very rural place. So I kind of knew all of the neighbors and people like that. And again, just to sort of stress, we were in lockdown and then she answered the call this night and as she sort of clicked on the screen and I saw her lean into the call, she had her phone charging on the floor. There was a man leaning in from the other side of the screen. And I was kind of taken aback. You know, there wasn't supposed to be anyone there. And she was always alone when I called her. And I saw him long enough that I could describe him. He had thinning gray hair, glasses, looked like he was maybe late 60s, something like that. And as she sort of pulled the phone up, he went out of shot. So I was like, well, who's that? And she said, who's what? And I was like, okay. I was like, well, the guy. Who's the guy? I just saw someone. She's like, no, no, no, there's no one here. And just kind of dismissed it. Didn't even sort of take any notice of me. And started talking about her day. And again, I interrupted her. I said, sorry, Mom, but I just saw someone. Are you telling me that you're on your own? And she was like, yeah, there's no one. Been no one here all day. And I could always tell when there was someone with her because over the years, it used to drive me nuts when I was a teenager, especially if someone was with her and I was trying to have a phone call. She'd turn on all these airs and graces, and it would be impossible to have a conversation with her. I'd just be like, okay, come on, just be yourself.. But she wasn't doing any of that. And it was a pretty small house that she lived in. She wasn't acknowledging anyone else. And we spoke for about 45 minutes and I thought, well, I must have been mistaken. So I just kind of dismissed it as some sort of glitch on the screen or something. Obviously that isn't really a thing, you know, with both had iPhones and, and I just left it and I went to bed that night and then the next morning got a phone call from a neighbor. They couldn't get in the house, and my mom had passed away. She'd had a heart attack. So yeah, the— I mean, obviously the initial grief was what it is, and, and I went through all of that, but at the back of my mind, I was like, well, what was all that? You know, are we talking ghosts here? Are we talking spirit guides? Or— and, and that wasn't something that I was into, into at all, or really interested in. And then, yeah, as the months went on, I kind of gradually opened up to this idea that that was the most logical explanation to me, was that that was something letting me know that my mum was about to pass.

Hmm.

So do you have any idea who it was to this day?

Well, that's the thing, you know, he didn't, he didn't look like a family member. I mean, I lost touch with my dad when I was 18. At a stretch, it could have been him, you know, at the age he might have been if he's if he was still around. Um, I have no idea. I'm assuming he's not. Um, he, he was quite a heavy drinker and he had one lung. He still smoked. And, and then there was COVID. So I mean, if he— I shouldn't like sort of— not, not to make light of it, but if he made it through that, then, you know, that I, I wouldn't have thought so.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, I, I ended up writing my book that I, that I sort of thought that it was possibly him, but I, I just don't know, you know. And, and like I say, um, I didn't really sort of get any comfort out of it. It was just like, okay, that happened. And I would tell people about it, and depending on which side of the fence people were, you know, people would be saying, well, it was grief. And I'd be like, well, it wasn't grief because it was before the fact, you know.

Right.

And then, um, and then I would meet people that say, well, yeah, that was, that was clearly your spirit guide or your mom's spirit guide, and somebody letting you know that they were, they were there for her, you know. Um, so yeah, I, I ended up going that route.

Okay. And so, oh, I, first of all, I wanna say I'm really sorry about your, your mother. I know that had to be a tremendous shock. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and before this you were an actor. You, you've done several things, so I know you've been an actor and you're a trainer. So what were you doing at the time?

So at the time, I'd, I'd come back to the UK in 2017 after living abroad for 20 years or so. And I, and when I came back, I settled in London with my partner. And I thought, if I was really honest with myself, what would I love to do? And I'd always been obsessed with movies. And I thought, well, the logical way to get into that would be perhaps acting. I don't have any experience in film directing or editing or anything like that in my 40s. So I went to drama school and very quickly got a few small parts. But I use the word like actor very loosely when I refer to myself about it. You know, I'll literally walk on, say a line, and walk off again. And that's me done, you know. Um, but it was good, you know, it paid the bills for a few years. And I must admit, my attention's really gone away from it now, uh, since writing the book and, and kind of the path that I'm taking now. I feel that there are, there are a lot of egos on film sets, which is kind of to be expected. And, um, I feel like that's not really the environment that I'm leaning towards these days, you know. So, um, yeah, but sorry.

So after your, your mother passed, tell me, what was, what was your, your journey like then? Because you eventually ended up with shamanism and etc. About what was your journey like after your mother passed.

Yeah, so I just— talking about the acting thing, I was, um, scheduled to start immediately on, uh, one of these big Marvel superhero movies. It was, um, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, it was called. And, um, and I've been waiting for it for months. It had been a really quiet year because of COVID And, um, and it started like 2 days after my mom passed, and I thought, well, I'm just going to do it because it'll, it'll keep me busy and I need the money as well, you know, the expense that comes up all around losing somebody, as, um, I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, is just something else. Um, so I just kind of got on with it, and I barely spoke to anyone for 2 months, I think, on set, you know. I just kind of had my head down. It was COVID, so we were all kind of separated, um, anyway. And I just kind of buried my head in books that I'd read years before. I kind of reread some books that I'd read when I was younger. And I would say that they were sort of like a very soft introduction towards spirituality. I was reading things like Neale Donald Walsch and stuff like that, kind of the broader sort of picture and not really delving straight into mediumship or anything, but they helped. These books helped. And one day on the set, I, when I eventually kind of started talking to people, I spoke to this young lady and she— I told her the story that I just told you. And she said, well, you should ask for a sign, you know. And I was like, I kind of thought of this, but I almost didn't want to. I was like, what if I ask for one and I don't get one, you know? Um, so just to sort of ramble on a little bit, we just moved into a new apartment during the time I was filming this thing. And I had a day off and, um, and I was putting away a bunch of Blu-rays, right? I've kind of obsolete now, but I've got a stack of them all in a box. And, um, and I was putting them very methodically away in a very geekily order of— and I'd got these films, these superhero Marvel things. And while I was doing this, I was like, oh yeah, okay, let's do this. I was like, all right, Mom, if you're around, give me a sign, right? And I sort of carried on tidying up. And as I put these Blu-rays away, I noticed that one was missing. And the one that was missing was Doctor Strange. So that was the original movie to the sequel that I was working on. And I thought, well, all right, that's kind of what— I didn't really attribute it to me asking for a sign at that point. Anyway, I was just kind of annoyed that it wasn't there. And then I went about tidying the flat. And then later in the day, I came across a stack of books. And on the top of the stack of books was this Blu-ray, Doctor Strange. And I was like, well, that's just really odd. That should have been in the box with the rest of them. And then I looked at the book underneath the Blu-ray was poking out and the author's name was Maureen, which was my mom's name. And then the title of the book underneath that one was poking out part of it. And it said living. So I've got Doctor Strange, Maureen, and living. And I thought, well, I don't know, maybe, maybe is that, you know, depending on which way you look at things, I was still kind of somewhat cynical about stuff at the time. But you know, that came up pretty quickly. And, and things tended to follow on from that.

So I understand you had some paranormal experiences. So tell me about some of those.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think that that was really the biggest one. And I truly, yeah,— at this point, I've settled on the idea that that was, you know, a spirit guide of some form, letting me know that my mom was about to pass. If that hadn't happened that evening, I wouldn't have wrote this book. We wouldn't be talking. It just sent me on this whole different trajectory.

That was what actually triggered you to go on the journey?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I just kept going back to that. Well, like, who was that guy? You know? But yeah, and it kind of made me reevaluate other things that had happened over the years. So when I was a kid, I remember stuff used to happen around the house, um, things moving, stuff like that. And, and, you know, as a kid, that was kind of like exciting. And, and, and then as I grew older, I thought, well, did those things really happen, or was that just like— I was into that stuff, you know. It was like watching Ghostbusters in the '80s or something, and, you know, and, and, and I sort of doubted it all. And I remember, um, in my teenage years, I, I came across this term, uh, astral projection. And read up on it and tried to invoke it. And I had this experience, um, which kind of freaked me out. And, and again, as years went by, I thought, I don't know, did that really happen? You know, was it just like wishful thinking? Maybe it was dreaming or something like that. Um, although everything that I read about it afterwards kind of confirmed that that was the experience that I'd had. Um, but I would put all these things to bed, you know. Um, And then something in my mid-30s, very profound. And this is kind of weird talking about this because I'm talking years apart, right? You know, like in the 5 years in the middle, I'm just living regularly, paying the bills, not thinking about any of this kind of stuff. But in my mid-30s, I remember having this very sort of very profound experience where I kind of— I was living a pretty hedonistic lifestyle at the time. I was running bars and nightclubs. In Helsinki, Finland, and I was kind of like very self-absorbed and just not really thinking about anyone else's business but my own. And I remember waking up this one morning and something just kind of— and it wasn't like a new thought, but something shifted with this thought. And I just started thinking about time being nonlinear, you know, that all we've got is this moment of now and that's it. You know, like everything else is just kind of a memory or a thought of what we want to do in the future. But all we really have is now, you know, all the time. And as I sort of contemplated this, something shifted and it was as though suddenly I were outside of myself, like observing my thoughts, almost like a depersonalization experience. I suppose that is what I've kind of come to learn since. And it was terrifying. Something shifted in me and I can't really emphasize how terrifying it was. All of a sudden sort of reality just fell away, you know, out of nowhere and linear time just seemed absurd and my whole existence at that point did also. So this is going kind of out there. Um, but I was like, well, okay, what the heck's this, you know? And I went outside and I just tried to walk it off and it just didn't stop. And it's really hard to describe it. And it was at the time I was trying to tell my work colleagues and, and friends and people were just kind of glazing over being like, okay, sure, you know, like I sounded completely nuts. Um, but it was, it was truly terrifying. And, and it was just like, now, now, now, now, all the time. I couldn't just sort of drift off, think, well, what I'm going to eat for dinner later, or what did I do last night. It was just like this hyper-awareness that just didn't stop. Interesting. And people talk about, yeah, like, like, you know, people talk about trying to attain that, right? Like, you know, live moment of now. But this was like that times a thousand. And, um, and I truly started doubting for my sanity, you know. And it kept going on. It went on for weeks, just didn't let up. And I ended up going to a doctor who I explained all this to as best I could, and they started using words like psychosis, which just amplified this terror. You know, I'd never thought that that was on the cards for me. Um, and they gave me a bunch of meds like anti-anxiety pills, which didn't touch it at all, uh, sleeping pills, which would like knock me out, and then I'd wake up and the whole thing would just start over again. And, and I think the best way I could describe it was like I was— it was almost like I was hanging on to like a slippery bar by my fingertips and just about keeping a grip on reality, essentially. It just felt like I was— I don't know what was going on. And I went to see another doctor because I wasn't happy with the psychosis diagnosis, and he said the same thing. And, um, and eventually, after a couple of months of this, I, I started thinking, well, this just isn't— if this is the way my brain works now, I'm, I'm out of here, you know. And I don't mean to take this down a dark path, but I didn't see any tragedy in that, you know, I thought this just doesn't work. I can't function properly like this. And I ended up going to see a psychiatrist. And what attracted me to this guy was that he was also a hypnotist. So I went there and I was like, hey, you know, hypnotize this away, right? I just, just make it stop. And he explained to me it didn't, didn't work like that. He said, you know, we need an anchor point and it doesn't really sound like you've got one. And, you know, and, but he said, You know, he said, I believe that what you're having is an awakening. And I was like, well, whatever. I was like, just make it stop. I just want to get back to the herd. I want to get on with work. And he started using words like mystic and talking about shamanic sickness and all these things I'd never heard of before. I wasn't interested in any of that. I was just like, just make it stop. And he gave me a couple of meditations, really powerful but kind of basic meditations. And I started practicing these daily. Very gradually, I kind of came back to, you know, where I wanted to be and just getting on with life. So yeah, so that was a long-winded story, but I kind of, again, once I got through it, and I got to say, I came out of it a lot humbler. I feel like my ego was just smashed to pieces, you know, when I was kind of doubting for my sanity. And I did come out of it just through these meditations on a daily basis. And, and it kind of made me stop sweating the small stuff, which resulted in moving back to the UK, exploring acting, all that kind of stuff. Um, but I didn't really look at it as a mystical event until again what happened around my mom passing. And then everything else that I've kind of learned about made me look at this as though, okay, every few years something would pop up like that, you know. And that was a particularly extreme one, but it seemed like something had been tapping me on the shoulder like the whole time. And, and I feel that now, you know, after doing various things like, you know, for work and this and that I feel like I finally, you know, found the path that I was possibly always supposed to be on.

Yeah, well, I thank you for telling that. And I think it's really interesting. And for people that are younger, possibly listening, because life doesn't make sense as we're going through it. I forgot who said it was a philosopher said that, you know, it's like, life can only be understood living back or looking backwards, we have to live it moving forward. And we do, we, as we look back, we find these events, and we put, we put together the pieces of the puzzle. And we can see how they make sense. I also think it's fascinating you talking about that. I've been reading a lot about time is nonlinear, time doesn't exist, and all this kind of stuff and trying to wrap my brain around it, which we really can't do. I think our brains just don't work that way. And, you know, Eckhart Tolle, you know, that book, The Power of Now, everybody wants to live in the now, so we think. So it's interesting that you had that experience. And, you know, it's—

yeah, I didn't—

not pleasant.

It wasn't pleasant. It was— I've never actually read that book. I've heard snippets of him talking and I'm like, oh yeah, well, I know all about that. Um, but it was out of nowhere. It was just like, it was such a shock. It wasn't something I was exploring or anything, and it came so powerfully and just altered everything, you know. Um, but again, in hindsight, the way I was going about my life at the time, I wasn't— it wasn't terrible, but I wasn't the greatest, you know, human being on the planet. And, and it really made me take stock of everything and started treating people nicer, started treating myself nicer. And it kind of, yeah, it definitely created a big shift.

Yeah. So after, so after your, the passing of your mother, and you're starting to open up to these spiritual things, and you have the signs, what made you decide to start studying mediumship?

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

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So I've just moved around into this new area that I was mentioning earlier. And I remember walking up and down the street a lot that was just like a couple of blocks away. And I'd never noticed this place before. And one day I just took notice of it and I probably walked down there 30 times at this point. And there was a small spiritualist church. I don't think you have a lot of them in the United States.

We have a few, not as many as you do in England. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I'd never heard of one before, you know, and I was like, okay, didn't really— never heard the term spiritualist church. And I stopped to look at the, the notice board outside, and they said they had a demonstration of mediumship, um, every Sunday. And, and I thought, well, kind of interesting, you know. And, and I just very recently been starting to look at that stuff. I'd come across a book by a medium called Claire Broad, um, which kind of got me thinking about that. And, and just so many weird little coincidences, right? And just to just go off track a little bit. When I started reading this book by Claire, um, she could have been from anywhere in the world. I didn't research her or anything, but her, her story immediately took place, uh, in the opening chapter, right across the street from where I was living at the time, which I thought, well, that's so odd, you know. She could have been from the States, she could have been Australian or what have you, but no, the whole thing took place like across the road. I could see what she was talking about. And then a couple of weeks later, I stumbled across this church Again, in hindsight, but I went along to this place and I was kind of still skeptical somewhat. I remember I'd set all of my social media stuff to private, nonsensical completely because it's not like anyone knew that I was going to show up there or knew my story or anything. And then I watched this lady work, a lady called Janet Neville, and she started working away around the congregation, I suppose you could call it, of maybe 15 people or something. And she started telling people about, you know, how— describing a house in Scotland. And she claimed that she'd never heard of this place in Scotland. And, and this lady was sitting confirming it, like, yeah, yeah, that's my, that's my husband's family. You're describing their house. And then she went on somebody else and somebody else, and she was getting like 90% affirmations that people completely understood what she was talking about. And by the time she got to me, I was like, I was like, okay, wow, this is amazing, you know, that she's telling people these things. And she got to me and she started talking about a young man. And I was like, okay, well, no idea who this guy is. You know, I was there hoping to hear from my mom, right, if this was going to be a real thing. And, and she started talking about this guy, and then she started talking as him, which was kind of interesting. I didn't know that was coming, you know. Um, she started sort of referring to me as though she was him speaking directly to me. And, um, and started talking about me being a medium, or a voice for spirit, as she, she called it. And, and again, this wasn't something that was really on my mind at the time. I just only just started sort of looking into this stuff, and I thought, well, that's interesting itself. They're just saying that because I just took an interest in it. Um, but she started saying, yeah, you know, one day you'll be up here and giving people messages. And I was like, okay, cool, but still don't know who this guy is. Um, and then the penny drops, and, and it— I realized that it was somebody that had passed when we were— I was probably 18, he was 20. Um, tragically, he got in with the wrong crowd and overdosed. And then everything that she'd said, you know, fell into place. I was like, damn, she's talking about him, you know. And then just right at the end of it, she said, oh, I've got a lady here, like an elderly lady that's recently passed. And I kind of choked up, you know. And she described the situation around my mom passing. And her accent changed. Again, this was like a game changer for me. Because this lady, the medium she had a very sort of strong London Cockney accent. And then it kind of just went to this Northern English accent, my mum's accent. And she just kind of, the language she used, although it was a very brief message, it was my mum speaking to me, you know? And it was life-changing. I'd say, you know, this hadn't been something that I'd ever looked into before. And then I just went along this night and it just, yeah, it essentially changed my life, I would say.

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Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that was your first experience with mediumship. And then yeah, they just decided to start, like, I think I can do this. So I want to do this.

Well, it's an interesting thing, you know, because like, did I start doing it because she said I was gonna do it? Or? Yeah, she suggested it? Or was it on the cards already? And I kind of came to the conclusion that again, there have been all these things along the way. There was a couple more that we might get to. But yeah, I was like, alright, this seems to be, this seems to be my thing. I don't know, for whatever, everything kind of made sense after that, you know. I've always kind of, I would always want to have deeper conversations with people, or, you know, why is this, or what, what are we doing here? And, and typically people wouldn't really be interested, and I always used to find it kind of frustrating, you know. And, um, I feel like, well, what more important question is there, you know? Um, but I get it, you know, we've got stuff to get on with, and, and I've got a lot of friends that are sort of skeptical of this stuff, and I respect that, and I'm not trying to enforce my beliefs on them. But yeah, it seems to be, it makes sense to me now.

So how did you get started in terms of studying? Because you studied with some pretty amazing people.

Yeah. So I'd finished this book by the medium Claire Broad, and very quickly afterwards I came across this place called the College of Psychic Studies in London. And I did, again, I was like, Didn't know there was a place such as, you know, that could exist that's called that. Yeah, I was like, what is this, like the X-Men school or something, you know? Um, and, and Clare was the, the author. She was doing a class there, um, pretty much like weeks after I'd finished the book. And again, I was like, well, that's a weird coincidence, um, I'll go along. And, um, and I told Clare pretty much all these stories that I told you when we had a break. And she was the first person that at that point was like, oh yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. You know, that, that's your spirit guide trying to get in touch with you. That's this, that's that. And, and the first person that didn't really sort of dismiss this whole thing as just rambling nonsense, you know. And, and she asked to keep in touch. Um, so yeah, I very quickly became like fast friends with her and took a lot of her workshops and classes. And then, you know, in sort of downtime, anything else that pops up like Gordon Smith or James Van Praagh, I would sort of jump on a a Zoom class with them or something like that. And, um, yeah, just try to sort of keep practicing, you know. And then soon after that, I, I met another lady that did a, um, kind of like a fortnightly, um, uh, circle, like development, developing mediumship circle, right, uh, which I still go to. So yeah, just kind of been practicing, and so far so good. Um, I'm definitely not calling myself a medium at this stage. I think it, you know, just in respect to the people that have done it before me, they've told me they've done it 7, 8 years before they even actually gave a reading, you know. Um, but at least in practice, um, I've pretty much had 100% success rate, you know. So yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, mediumship is different in the UK than it is here. I mean, here people, they'll take a weekend workshop and they'll go out and they'll start calling themselves a medium. And yeah, right. And in England, it seems like you guys are a lot more serious about developing and, and you know, have you, do you know, have you heard of Nikki Allen?

I'm not sure, it might sound familiar.

She's a medium in England. And she's written a couple of books. And one of her books, she talks about, you know, going to the spiritualist churches, and they're like, you haven't been practicing long enough. So they wouldn't even let her, let her on the platform.

So that's something I'm very conscious of, because, you know, I wrote this book, and I've read another book straight afterwards that will be out next year.. And I kind of feel like somewhat like a little bit of a maverick stepping in and saying, hey, I'm a medium in a year, you know, and this is how to do it. And I've kind of like wrote what's worked for me. And in theory, the reader could, you know, follow these steps and progress as well. But I'm also conscious of not upsetting this very traditional, you know, long history of spiritualism in this country. Like you say, you know, I don't want to sort of be frowned upon, um, for suggesting that anyone can go out and do this. Um, yeah, I, I don't know, you know. I, I remember seeing a girl one night step into the church. She, she said she'd been doing it for a couple of months, and she just gave, you know, confirmation after confirmation of people. Everyone's hand was going up and all agreeing with what she was saying. It was, you know, she seemed as good as the ones I've seen doing that for years. So I don't know, maybe there's just kind of a traditionalist hierarchy. I'm not sure.

Yeah, well, I think it's kind of like, and I've been, been talking to mediums for several years now, 7 or 8 years, you know, and so what I've come to the conclusion, it's kind of like people that have skill to play music. There's some people that are prodigies, you know, and they can, they can pick up a guitar and teach themselves to play. And there's someone like me that could study for years and never be any good at all. And there's everything in between. Right? So there's nothing that says that you have to be a medium for 10 years before you can be good, but it's probably the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. I'm just, like I say, just very cautious about stepping on any sort of traditionalist toes because there are people around that I've met that really studied with people from 100, you know, that were around 100 years ago, you know, they kind of met them at the tail end of their lives, learned from these people that were the pioneers of this stuff. And then like two generations away, you know, it's kind of really close to that traditionalist element. So yeah, I'm kind of always trying to be respectful for it, you know.

Yeah, I think that's great. I think it's great that you take it seriously. But also, I would encourage you to be confident in your abilities, because I've, you know, I've known lots of mediums. Some are, some are just natural born. I was talking to one just the other day, she just, just always been, she's always seen spirit and has always been with her. And then I know people who have developed, you know, in their 30s or 40s or even 50s. And it took them, you know, years to develop after that. So it's, it's everything in between.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, well, I mean, just sort of to bring it sort of full circle, I mean, it's very much helped me with dealing with the loss of my mom. It's been— well, yeah, it was January, uh, 2021. So, you know, we're approaching somewhat the 3-year mark, and I feel like it, it's somewhat accelerated the healing process for me. I'm not sure, of course, we all go through this at our own pace. Um, the first year was unbelievably hard, you know. Um, I, I, I wasn't prepared for how hard it was. Um, and, and, you know, a lot of people lost people around that period of time.. And, and I, I, a friend of mine had lost both of his parents or, or a few friends actually. And, you know, a couple of them are like, well, you know, it's cool. I'm, I'm moving on, you know, 6 months later. And I'm like, I, I can't even comprehend that, you know, that, that I, I wanted to hurt. I wanted to feel all of it. And, um, but that being said, um, learning about this stuff was a very sort of mixed bag of emotions and writing the book too, because, um, as much as I was pouring my grief into it and it definitely helped to sort of write about it. I was learning about these amazing things, you know, and they were happening almost weekly as I explored mediumship. So yeah, it was kind of a very bittersweet journey, you know, but it definitely helped.

Definitely helped. So have you been, have you been in contact with your spirit guide since then? Are you, are you making connection with them?

Yeah, I'm still learning to meet them. It's kind of funny to have, like a few years ago, I would have dismissed this whole thing, you know, I would have probably been intrigued, but I wouldn't have taken it that seriously. But to talk about it now, Yeah, you know, I've met a couple of them. I feel like I'm still on my way to sort of getting to know more. Definitely the last couple of months since the book's come out and talking about promoting it and sort of thinking about all that stuff, it's kind of made my practice suffer somewhat. I haven't been meditating as much as I should and all these kind of things, and I can see it's kind of gone to the wayside a little bit. But, um, I plan to get back to it very soon. Um, and I think that's fine. I think that, you know, we, we're also— we've also got stuff to get on with. We need to pay the rent, and, you know, we've got practical obligations, and we are having a physical experience. So I think that it all happens in its own time. Um, but yeah, I, I initially, the first year or two, or the— yeah, up until recently, um, I felt very much connected and, and, um, Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been interesting. And just being able to sort of differentiate between my thoughts and what I believe is coming from, from them. Yeah.

Well, I know you've said you've been— you feel like you've been guided to write a trilogy, to write 3 books. That's— I assume that's coming from your guides, or where is that coming from?

Yeah, definitely. So the second book, which goes way out there, is kind of less about me and more about the bigger picture. You know, I've pretty much to an extent told you my whole story as things around, you know, that have happened to myself. So I don't, you know, I don't want to just write a bunch of books saying, um, I mean, I've read books like this that where mediums are talking about, um, you know, confirmations that they give to people or, or readings that they're given for people. There's kind of a list of that. I, I don't want to do that, you know. I don't want to just be like, and then this person said that, and then they said that, and then they agreed that, and while those things did help me initially, I feel like there's a bigger thing going on here that we should look into. And I feel that the second book, I feel that half of it wasn't from me. I'd look back at it and I'd think, okay, that's way smarter than me. I'm not, I wouldn't have come up with that. You know, when I read it now, I couldn't sort of off the top of my head talk about some of the things that I wrote in there. I truly believe that it's come from something higher than me. Yeah. So, so I've left it at that. I, I haven't made a start on the third book yet, and I'm just trusting that it'll come to fruition when, when it does, you know.

Okay. So, um, in, in your, in your first book, the book that's out now, there's— I know there's some talk about like meditation and exercises and things that people can do. So it's more than just your story, right? So tell me about what the other parts of the book are.

Yeah, definitely. Um, I just started writing about what really worked for me, um, in terms of meditation, and that was really a game changer from back before my mom passing or anything like that. I was kind of looking at it as a more sort of practical mental health practice, um, that I learned about. But then as I started exploring mediumship, it seems that meditation is truly the, the doorway, um, to, to open, open us up to that.. And, and one of the things I like to sort of talk about is that, uh, and that there are probably a way, way smarter, uh, terms to use than the way I'm gonna describe it, but as, uh, as though we've got like a backseat driver, you know, which is our consciousness, which is observing our thoughts, right? So, you know, we, we sort of, we react to our thoughts and respond to them and, and everything comes from thought essentially, right? You know, um, and, and I really sort of ran with that idea in the book that when we can sort of take a step back and don't get attached to the emotions that are sort of— we're constantly being bombarded with this and that. For example, one thing I always say is kind of you step outside and you're on your way to do something and you see somebody in a red t-shirt and that kind of triggers some memory of somebody at school that bullied you in a red t-shirt or something like that. And you got that going on while you're trying to do what you're trying to do. And it's just nonstop, right? And I feel that meditation is really beneficial to being able to step back from all that and just taking a moment to yourself and then recognizing that we're not our thoughts, you know, we're something that's internal, external to that. I'm not sure about that yet, but, um, but yeah, there's a huge benefit in it. And I believe that again, learning about mediumship, when you can sort of separate that, then when something else comes in, then you recognize it as something else, you know, okay, that's not part of that whole passing train of thoughts over there. This is something that's coming from somewhere else and still you are the one at the back that's taking all this information in. So yeah, I find it fascinating and yeah, the meditation seems to be really, that seems to be something that people are really, have responded well to with the book.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I'm a big proponent of meditation. I know a lot of people push back against it because they say, well, I can't do it, they don't understand it. So do you give some practical tips for people that are struggling with that?

Yeah, definitely. I, I did one the other day, actually. Um, uh, really very gradually I've been going to these sort of spiritual, um, uh, festivals and stuff like that that are a thing here. Um, and I did one the other day. A lot of people showed up. I would have been happy with one, and I think about 60 people showed up, but I there was a lot going on around us. It was a big sort of festival. There was drums playing somewhere and people doing this and that. And I think that we have this sort of illusion that we have to be sitting in silence and not get distracted. And I think it's fine to get distracted as long as you just bring yourself back. So, with that meditation that we did that day, I was like, "Okay, well, let's use these sounds to sort of ground us to this moment." Because I think that's also key, just being present in the moment. Nothing as terrifying as I talked about earlier, but just being conscious that we're right here, right now. Yeah. Focusing on the breath, always come back to the breath. And, you know, if you do hear a dog barking in the distance, just use it, you know, be like, okay, that, that's me right now. That's keeping me right here while I, you know, sort of go through this. And, you know, distractions are going to come up. It's inevitable. But just, yeah, always come back to the breath, always come back to the present moment.

Yeah, I think that's great that you do that and describe for people. And it's kind of— I was kind of smiling there when you talk about coming back to the present moment, thinking about your terrifying experience of not being able to get out of the present moment. But there's, there's that balance in terms of being human. You know, I just said I'm struggling right now with this concept, because I'm reading all these books telling me that time is an illusion, and there's really no past, there's really no future.. And it's a concept that we, that I struggle with, but you've had the flip side of that experience.

Yeah, I mean, it was so terrifying, but then I've had, I've had things since, uh, around mediumship. Like, for example, I shouldn't really tell all the tales that are in the book, but for example, there was, I was struggling with this whole mediumship at one point and, and I was begging for, you know, I'd had signs, but I wanted more.. And I was at my mom's house. You know, she'd been gone a few months, and I still sort of kept hold of the house just to sort of be there and be around her things and grieve. And I remember going to the beach one night, and I was like, okay, well, you know, if this is a thing, if you, whoever you is, wants me to do this, then give me— I need more, you know. And this was like a pretty crazy experience, I have to say. And I settled in this spot on the beach. And, and I was crying. I was very much missing my mom. I probably had a bit to drink that night, and, and I started kind of just like yelling. I was this like proper freak out moment. I was like, all right, you know, just give me something if, if this is what you want me to do, you know. And I'm talking spirit guides here. And I've been sat there for a while, and I was kind of giving up, and I turned to my left, and there was a, there was a cafe right next to me, and there was a chalkboard on the cafe. And this is— I still don't really get this. Like, um, and on the cafe chalkboard was my name. It said Phil, wrote in chalk, and all around it it said hi, like hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, as in like the greeting. And I was like, okay, here, there we go again, you know. I'm asking for a sign and there's my name and, and a bunch of like sort of greetings around it. And, and I'd gone there before the fact, right? So I'd gone there before I was kind of asking for the sign and stuff like that. So the whole thing, you know, about time being nonlinear, and maybe on the other side that that's probably the case, um, that they kind of— I'm assuming that's recognized my plight, taking me to the place that was going to give me the, you know, the, the comfort that, that I'm on the right track.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Um, so can you explain to me, because I, I know I was reading your, your notes, and one of the things you said that really intrigued me, that you said that Inspiration, instinct, and ingenuity are the same as intuition, divination, and clairvoyance. So what do you mean by that?

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, and this is something I say a lot, um, but I, I really, I believe it's true. You know, people talk about having a gut feeling, or we, we say we can't put our finger on something, or we talk about walking into a room and cutting the air with a knife where someone's had an argument. And, you know, we pick up on these things, and we all agree that this is a real thing, you know, no matter if you're skeptical of any spiritual stuff or not. But then yeah, if you start using words like clairsentience or clairaudience or any of anything like that, or sixth sense, then people typically just dismiss you or look at you like you're nuts. But I think it's simply a question of semantics, right? We're talking about the same things. We're talking about the same moments of knowing that we get, but we're just using different language. You know, it's the same stuff, right? And I feel that again, since learning about meditation, learning about mediumship, I've really become more in tune with intuition and my honest, you know, sort of authentic self. Yeah, I think we all have them. It's just, we just use different terms for them.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. We do shy away from certain terms. And we've all had the experience, you know, for example, you think about somebody and the phone rings and it's them.. And yeah, you know, we just, we chalk that up to coincidence and things. We've, I mean, we've all had experiences like that.

Yeah, that's it. And, and, you know, even some of the more sort of profound, uh, I would say sort of mystical spiritual experiences, they somehow, uh, I feel that they don't quite sit in your memory the same way as everyday practical stuff, you know? So when something does happen, like, like me sitting on the beach and there's my name wrote on the café or Or I've had a couple of other things. One with my partner, who she's very much on the fence about this stuff. She kind of— it's kind of good. She keeps me grounded somewhat. But she's very sort of leaning more towards agnostic, I suppose. We had an experience together that was very overwhelming and profound. And, and she was like, okay, what, what is this? You know, there was something physically sensate, like going on something with us.

Sure.

And, um, and I said, well, this is what I'm talking about. This is exactly what I've been talking about all these months. And I know she experienced it. And I said, after this is done, I said, you're not going to remember this the same way because it's not like something that comes in through the usual senses. It's not something that you can touch or taste or, or, or, I mean, these things happen as well, but this particular thing that was happened to us, it was more like a knowing or a very odd sensation that was, that was happening between us. And, um, and afterwards she kind of was like, yeah, well, something happened, but I don't know, you know. I, I thought that that thing was going to change everything for her, but it didn't, you know. She's still like, well, yeah, something happened, but doesn't mean that I believe in life after death at this point. But, um, you know, but yeah, I, I just to go sort of back again to the point, I feel that these things don't really sit in our memory the same way as, you know, what we just dead this afternoon, you know.

Well, you described something there that I think is very important that we, that we kind of dig into a little bit. Because you talked even about some of the experiences you had earlier. We have an experience. It's very visceral. It's very real to us. We— but then, over time, our brain talks us out of it. Did that really happen? Did that really happen the way I felt that happened? And especially, especially when it's a subjective experience, when it's only us, just, yeah, it's just one person seeing it. If two people see it, we give it more weight. I think that's really interesting about, about our culture too. It's like, if I see something, I describe it to you, then people are like, yeah, maybe it happened. But if two people describe it, then we give it more weight. But we, I think we all talk, or tend to talk ourselves out of things like that.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'd still do it myself. And I still, I've heard of mediums, you know, that have been practicing for years saying that they still question it even though they, they get this information like on a regular basis. They're still like, I don't know, is it, is this real? You know, um, it's kind of weird, you know, like I am, I, and for myself, like I know that these things that I'm giving to people, I have no idea where it comes from, you know. I know in theory how it works, but I don't know the actual mechanics of it. And all you can sort of do is just trust that it, that it's a thing. And I think that's really the key, and that's probably where a lot of skeptics, um, sort of point out that, that, that's what's not logical about it. It's like, well, if you start believing in this stuff, then you're, you're going to be looking for it, and then you're going to sort of confirm to yourself because you're actually searching, you know what I mean? So it's— I, I get it. Um, but yeah, you know, I had another experience, and sorry, I won't keep rambling on about stories, that for me was amazing. Uh, and, and I, I even— it was again a paranormal somewhat experience. I saw an orb and I caught it on camera. And I said to my friend, I was like, look at this, amazing, right? And he was like, yeah, I don't know, man. He was like, maybe, maybe it's a light from outside. And I'm like, no, it's not, okay? And I'm not in the habit of lying about these things, you know what I mean? It's like, we've known each other for, right, 30 years, you know? Like, when have I ever come up with something like this, you know? Right? And, and, but still, he's like, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, it just doesn't just doesn't sit right with him, you know.

Well, there is, and this is, I've just realized this to myself. I'm a very rational person. I'm a chemical engineer by training. And I realized just, this was just a couple weeks ago, I'm reading all these books by physicists and, you know, philosophers and everything, trying to understand how things work. And I think it's fine to try to understand how things work. I think that's part of being human. But the problem is, we tend to dismiss things if we don't understand how they work. And what I find with the materialist people say is like, well, since we don't understand how mediumship works, therefore it can't be true. I don't understand how near-death experiences happen, therefore they can't be true. And I was just really recently hearing Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about like, well, you're describing something that we can't measure, we can't see, blah, blah, blah. And that's just, that's, that's imaginary. And I'm reading this book, they're talking about dark matter and dark energy, which nobody knew existed until 1998. We still can't— we still don't know what they are. The physicists just tell us that they— it has to be there because of the way the universe works. But we don't know what it is. We can't detect it. We don't have— but, and that's fine. You're like, this is okay, we'll accept dark matter and dark energy, but we won't accept the fact that Phil can talk to dead people because we don't understand how it works.

Yeah, no, that's it, isn't it? I've read, um, and I wish I could reel them off now, but I've read, I've read of a few, um, converts from, from science that have really sort of gone down this path, and they're talking about science almost as, as a, as a religion, you know, that, okay, just, they just won't touch it because, because it's, you know, they'll— I can't, I'm just going to butcher this now, but one lady was talking about, you know, they say, well, this study has been done on that. She's probably talking about one thing that hasn't really been funded and someone's been like, uh, doesn't make sense. Okay, it's not a thing. You know, she's like, no one's actually really looked into this. And, and a lot of the research, I think she was saying, showed that, uh, you know, in terms of people saying they've got clairvoyant abilities or, or remote viewing or all these kind of, you know, things that sound kind of nuts, that there's a lot— there's more evidence that is for it than against it, you know. But nobody wants to touch it because it just, it just calls everything into question. You know, so what can you do?

Well, it's— I was listening to Julie Beischel, who's— she's done research on mediums. She has one— runs this thing called the Windbridge Institute. And they've actually brought mediums in and they've done quadruple blind or quintuple blind studies. And, and there's— they've eliminated all the things that skeptics say, cold reading, hot reading, you know, bias, all those, all those things. They've eliminated all those things. And they've proven that some mediums can pass, you know, these tests. But she said something I hadn't heard before. I thought this was really interesting. Some people's brains, when they hear something new, the front part of their brain, like, lights up, and they get really curious about it. And they're like, what's that? I want to find out more about that. Other people, when they hear something new, their amygdala lights up, their fear receptors light up. And they're like, oh no, this must be dangerous. We must run away from this. And I just heard this like a week ago. And I'm like, that's profound to me. Because there's some of us that say, okay, well, this is new. I don't understand it. Let me find out more about it. And others, I would say, well, I don't understand it, therefore it's got to be scary.

Yeah, that's, that's— I like that as well. That's interesting. Um, I, I got a couple of friends that I spoke to recently, and I, I feel that some, you know, they're possibly avoiding me because I'm going to go down this road with them, and they're like, I just don't want to go there. And, and one of them said, well, that, you know, that's all great, but that doesn't help me, you know, that doesn't serve my day-to-day life at all. That's interesting or whatever, but So what, you know, so what? Like, I've still got to go to work, I've still got to do this, and I've still got to do that. And, and her brain just doesn't go there, you know. Um, yeah, so again, and, you know, I respect that. And a few years ago, if I'd have come across somebody talking like this, I'd be like, I don't know, man, that's a bit, you know, it sounds quite out there. Yeah.

Yes. And, and, you know, Again, I think that goes back to that balance thing. We can't, we don't, we can't live, we have to live in this world, we have to live the physical, as you pointed out, we have to pay the bills. And so those people are correct. But death is something that is the only thing that's universal, that we're all going to face personally and for people around us. So it's, you know, when, when something happens, and this is, this, I find this a lot of people like your mother passing, or losing a child or losing a spouse. That's what kicks us onto that, that journey that says, okay, this stuff is important. But that's, that's what's really important.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's it. You know, I can't imagine— I've heard your story. And I can't imagine how that must, must be. I feel that when we, when we lose a parent, and I say this quite a lot as well. But we really lose like the one true witness to our lives, you know, the person. And obviously people have different relationships with their parents. Like, I'm not saying that this is across the board, but yeah, that person that's been there since day one. And for me, it felt like stepping into an alternate universe suddenly, you know, you just kind of assume that they're always going to be there. And yeah, back to what you said, we kind of assume that we're always going to be here. It's kind of— it's so odd the way we've got things set up around death. Death. And yeah, I think it would, you know, be a good thing if we could somewhat normalize it more and talk about it.

Yes, it's— well, it's scary and we don't want to talk about it. And your friends, you know, I— it's, it's really interesting. My— it's been 8 years for me since my daughter passed, and we just had my wife's 60th birthday party yesterday, uh, 2 days ago. And our friends were here and they know, it's like, okay, this is what I talk about now. This is what's really— and it was funny because a friend of mine called me over during the birthday party, she said, do you want to get philosophical? I said, yeah, always. And she started asking me a question about what was going on with this family, if I believed in soul planning and stuff like that. And I'm like, that to me felt really good that she felt comfortable, you know, having that conversation with me. So I think there are people like you and I that are put here to— this is what we're here to do, I think.

Yeah, I believe so. And again, in hindsight, I feel like I was always drawn to these things, but I didn't really know where to go. I would always kind of hit a brick wall, you know, it would be like, Well, that's really interesting, but we just don't know beyond that. And I feel that I'm starting to learn something. And it would be really arrogant to say that I know something more than I did before, I suppose. But I feel like, yeah, I'm on the right track at least. I guess we're just not designed to know, right? And, you know, it'll sort of figure itself out in the end. Yeah.

So where do you see yourself going? I know you just said you— we don't know, because we never know where we're going to go. But do you see developing to professional medium? Or where do you see yourself going?

I'm still on— I'm still on the fence about that. I find it fascinating. I've got to be really careful. Again, I don't want to come across as sounding arrogant. I feel that, you know, I'm very much at the start of my journey with mediumship, like when I'll give a reading. I'll see somebody, I'll be able to physically describe them. I'll usually see the circumstances around the passing, and then I'll ask for a message, and that will come to me as a, a very basic symbol, you know, um, like a ship or something like that. And so I feel like it's very rudimentary what I'm offering people, whereas I don't feel that I'm at the stage where I could actually give anyone anything hugely beneficial, you know. I feel like I get these three things and then I'm done. Um, or perhaps that's me just sort of selling myself short, I don't know. But, um, I'm not sure if mediumship, working as an actual medium, is, you know, my sort of final destination. Um, I just feel that it's a key to something bigger, you know. Um, definitely the second book, the things that I've wrote in that, like I say, it goes kind of way out there. About time and stuff like this, and some stuff that I'm almost apprehensive about people reading. Um, definitely people that know me, they're going to think I'm— okay, he's gone. But, um, but yeah, I feel that there's a bigger, there's a bigger picture around all this. And, and, you know, one good thing at least we can say is that it does seem to be able to be a bit easier to talk about these things than it was 10 years ago or 15 years ago. Um, even, even skeptical people seem to be somewhat open to at least giving it the time of day for a little while, even if they shut it down. I think, yeah, people can have these conversations a lot more easier than we used to.

Yeah, I think so. There's a couple of things here. I think science, frankly, is catching up with philosophers and theologians have told us for thousands of years at this point, you look at quantum quantum physics, quantum mechanics, quantum theory, everybody knows what that is. Now, you're mentioning the Marvel movies, and they're exploring a lot of these themes. Yeah, like the Doctor Strange movie. When I went to see that, I was like, wow, this is, this is a deeply spiritual movie. I know that's not what they meant to make, but it is.

Yeah, I remember I was on a plane and I watched— was it the animated Spider-Man movie from a couple of years ago? And that I was like, this is, this is deep. And like, when I was a kid, I was watching Scooby-Doo, and they would pull the mask off someone, right? And that would be the end, you know, but they're talking about like multiple dimensions and stuff like that. I was like, really, you know, if that's how kids are thinking these days, I mean, that's, that's pretty impressive.

Brian D Smith: Yeah. And Disney's putting up movies, you know, like Soul. So I think, I think what's happening is, I think people are moving away from religion So, and people tend to mix up religion and spirituality. But people, as we're getting these messages in a non-religious way, people are more open to them. I think, I think, I think people crave this stuff. I think there's just, we tend to push it down because society tells us that we need to. So I applaud you for being brave enough to put yourself out there.

No, thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's been, like I say, it's been somewhat of a healing process for me. And after I'd written the first book, I just felt like I'd learned so much. And like, I sort of like, I feel that my story was done to an extent. And then I kind of learned all these amazing things. And I was like, well, I've got another book here. And sort of really went into that. And the bigger picture, it still kind of comes down to my opinion somewhat. So I'm not saying that it's, that it's all, you know, for want of a better word, gospel, but You know, food for thought, I suppose.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think your opinion— I'm trying to think how to respond to that. I mean, everything that we write, I guess, is pretty much from our own point of view, right? So, and we can share things and hope it, hope it resonates with somebody. But even again, I, being a, being a scientific person myself, and realizing that, you know, every new, every new scientific theory is laughed at at first, It's all like, that's crazy. That's insane. You know, quantum, quantum theory was laughed at, you know, the first guy that talked about microbes, he said, you know, I think diseases are caused by these invisible tiny things that are like floating around in the air. They're like, you're— there's no evidence for that. You know, so that's, it's all laughed at, at some point. So yeah, I, your, your opinion, your experiences, and I do read a lot of talk to a lot of people. And so I see when I look at the commonalities between people say, that's where I see the truth. And there are a lot of people saying the same things that you're saying now. There are people that are putting that message out.

That's, that's, I think that's a hugely important point as well. Yeah. Like, when I've been looking into this, it's like, okay, there's so many of these stories, you know, people talking about near-death experiences and so many commonalities and all of them is, and how has this just been ignored? You know, like, I don't know how many thousands of people talking about, you know, similar experiences, especially when they've passed and come back again. They're all the same story, essentially, you know, there's got to be something to it.

Right, right. And again, people, this is why people like us need to keep telling because people think, oh, near-death experiences, there's, you know, every once in a while people have this, it's a lack of oxygen to the brain, it's a hallucination. And there are people that have done research. So whenever someone said to me, I'm like, you need to read this book, or you need to look at this research. Because people have actually controlled for all that. And it's, I think, the estimates between 5% and 10% of the population's had an NDE at this point, which is literally billions of people on the planet that have had this experience. Right, right.

Yeah, I undershot there with thousands. Yeah.

Yeah, it's millions just in the US.

I mean, yeah.

And if you think about worldwide, it's billions of people. So yeah, keep, you know, we need you, people like you need to keep putting this out there. And, and it makes it acceptable to other people. And our friends might scoff at us. But also one day they'll be, they'll be there asking you questions. They'll be, they'll be calling you over and saying, my mom just died.

And that's it.

This has been my experience. Do you think this was real?

No, well, that's the thing, isn't it? And just to sort of get back to the grief thing again, you really don't know until you know. I thought I anticipated what, what it was going to be like, you know, and again, losing a parent, you kind of, you know, that that's probably on the cards. But the experience itself was, was nothing that could have prepared me, you know, it's just been profound. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's something we're all going to go through. Where, like I said, we're— and the people, I know it's an unpleasant thought, but it's something we're all going to go through. Might as well be, you know, prepared. It's my way of looking at it. So, Phil, let people— remind people of the name of your book and let people know where they can get it.

Yeah, it's called Letting Glow. So really was just kind of a play on the words there of sort of getting through grief and coming out of it a bit brighter. Um, yeah, it's available at all the usual bookshops. Um, if they haven't physically got it, um, you can ask for it. And, and it's of course on, on Amazon. Um, social media-wise, I'm most active on Instagram, and I've got a website that I'm probably going to redo. It's not the best, but, um, people, um, have been getting in touch with me through that, uh, philwebster.com.

Okay, so, and it's Phil with two L's?

Yeah, Phil with two L's. Yeah.

Okay. So yeah, and I'll put links in the, in the show notes. I just like to have it in the, in the audio too, cuz sometimes people are out walking, listening. Well, Phil, it's been a real pleasure getting to know you. Uh, thanks for being here. Thanks for doing what you do.

Thanks very, very much for having me on. I, I've particularly been looking forward to speaking to you, like I say, after hearing you, uh, a few months ago on, on another podcast. So yeah, yeah, pleasure speaking with you.

All right, well, good luck with the book. We'll talk later.

Thank you.

Have a good day.

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