Surviving HELL: How a Near-Death Experience Led Dr. Parti to Redemption!

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Hey everybody, I'm back with— this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief to Growth. And today I've got with me Dr. Rajiv Parti.. He had a very interesting near-death experience I think you're gonna be really interested to hear about. It brought him on a journey through the afterworld, leading to a spiritual awakening that transformed his career, his lifestyle, and even his fundamental beliefs. Before his NDE, he was a wealthy man of science with a successful career as the chief of anesthesiology at the Bakersfield Heart Hospital in California. He demanded the same success from his son as he did from himself.. And they had some issues because of that. All in all, he was the last man to believe in heaven or hell until he saw heaven and hell with his own eyes. When he had his NDE on the operating table, he first watched his operation from the ceiling. And I'm going to let him tell you his story himself instead of reading that to you from his bio. But the thing about it, he has a remarkable spiritual transformation after he has experience, and we're going to talk about that as well. With that, I want to welcome Dr. Rajiv Parti.

It's my pleasure to be here.

I'm really looking forward to having this interview with you today, and I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. I know there's some sensitive things about it, but if you could tell me about your experience, what happened to you?

In 2008, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer., and one of the options was radical prostatectomy to take the whole prostate out. I opted for that. So that cured me of prostate cancer, but it left me with complications like impotency and incontinence. So in 2010, after approximately 2 years, I was not getting better. So UCLA, they implanted an artificial sphincter for me to be able to control my bladder function. That got infected about on Christmas. By, by Christmas Eve, I got very sick. And that's when my wife rushed me to UCLA, University of California, Los Angeles Hospital. And they did emergency surgery because I was septic. And the main thing is, if you're septic and this is infection and there's a foreign body, it becomes a source of infection. The sooner you take out, the better it is. And that's when I had the experience.

Well, tell me about your experience.

Okay, so they rushed me to the surgery. And then by— I had looked at the clock when I had gone in. So approximately 15-20 minutes later, I was surprised to see myself floating near the ceiling. And I could hear and I could see what the surgeons were doing. So much so, anesthesiologist told a joke, I can't repeat it, but I still remember it. You know, and I'm an anesthesiologist, and part of our job is to keep the atmosphere light in, in the operating room.

Okay.

So from there, my consciousness went to different realms. I would say, I would like to say it went to heaven like most of the people say, but it went to hellish realm where I could see the souls wailing and crying and were in misery. And my first question was, why am I here? And the realization was given to me that I had not been a good man. Good. I was very good technically as a physician.. But I had no connection with my patients. And for me, money was everything. Expensive cars, I lived in a 10,000-square-foot house on a golf course and a lake. I used to drive a Hummer, the extreme SUV, it gave only 8 miles a gallon. And I'm a Hindu by birth. But I was not practicing any religion, we just went for functions, religious holidays. To party, basically, excuse to party. And that got transformed by my near-death experience. So when I was in the hellish realm, I cried for help. And my father showed up. I had a very difficult relationship with my father. In today's age, I would say my father had PTSD, because he was product of trauma when India and Pakistan separated as two countries. There was mass murder on both sides, and my family was stuck on the Pakistan side. So he had to lie among dead bodies to escape being murdered by the Muslim mob. And he came to India. And, and the Hindus did the same thing to Muslims on the other side. So it was both sides. And so he, his education was cut short, he could not become what he wanted to become in life. So he was living his life through me. And he wanted me to succeed. But, but there are different ways of motivating a child than beating him up every time.. But here he asked for forgiveness, and I realized he actually loved me. And I forgave him. And then I touched his feet. You know, like in India, you always touch the feet of elders. And he blessed me, and he reminded me of the words he had said on his deathbed. He died now 25 years ago in Fresno, California, after complication from heart surgery. And he told me in Hindi, Indian language, beta, apni niya saaf rakna bawan bhakt daalega, which literally translates, if you keep your conscience clear, God will bless you. So I had forgotten about that. He reminded me. And then he led me towards the tunnel. And in the tunnel, I had a review of my present life. What was most amazing was I had a review of my past lives. And in the past life, in this life, I used to have pain in my wrist because I had torn my cartilage. And I had 2 surgeries on wrist. And it was chronically painful, so much so at times I was not able to work. So in that life, I saw myself whipping the farmers and my soldiers were doing the same thing. And I asked for forgiveness from the farmers, and they forgave me. And in this life, when I woke up, my pain was gone. I was able to walk without any pain. Wow. So I had a review of my present life too. You know, it was basically, it was Like I was made to feel what the other person was feeling. Good and bad. You know, I did some good things too.

Yeah.

So what the other person was feeling. And from the tunnel, on the other side, I was greeted by two angels. I knew they were angels, but I did not know who were they, their names or anything. Then they telepathically told me, that one was Michael with the blue shoe, and one was Raphael. And that made sense to me later on when I read Raphael is an angel for healing, for people who are sick, and for doctors. And Michael is a chief of, you know, for strength, is a chief of angels. And they guided me above a meadow. Towards the light. A stream was flowing and I could distantly hear the sound Om. And when I was in the presence of light, it was like 1,000 suns, but it was not hurting the eyes. And then I was given the realization that it's not my time yet, but my life will change dramatically. I have to quit anesthesia and become a spiritual man and help people wake up. And that's what my transformation started. And then I woke up in the recovery room with a jolt. I told the nurses about my story. They believed it because they had heard similar stories from before. But when I told the doctors, oh, you must be dreaming or something. You know, maybe hallucinating. I told that to my family. My wife believed, my daughter believed, my sons were agnostic about it. You know, it didn't matter to them. So, but when my life started changing, then my wife for sure believed it, that something happened. You know, then after I woke up, I sold my Hummer, I sold my house, and I moved to a smaller house, you know, decent house, a moderate house. It doesn't have to be for 2 people to live in a 10,000-square-foot house. And my life literally and figuratively went from Hummer to hybrid. You know, and then I resigned from my job as anesthesiologist. And I've been a spiritual seeker since then. And I have learned meditation practice. I'm a teacher from Chopra University, you know, Deepak Chopra, for meditation. I learned yoga there. And I learned Ayurveda. And I learned even other disciplines like EFT. And that was my immediate transformation. But there's other things which happened later. I can tell you about that as we go along.

Yeah, absolutely.

My book is only up to my life up to 2012, 2-3 years after my near-death experience. But a lot of things happened after that.

Okay. Yeah, I'd love to do that. Let's, let's go over some, some questions about your experience itself. So I'm curious as to, as being an anesthesiologist, being in the medical profession, I'm assuming you had heard of NDEs. What were your thoughts about NDEs before this?

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You know, I used to think people have hallucinations. And you know, as I was with religion, you know, my Hindu religion, I didn't care. It didn't make me a difference. Was that true? Was it not true? I never gave it a thought.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so you said you were raised Hindu, but you were kind of nominally Hindu. You weren't really practicing. I'm curious about what is the— what is Hindu teaching about? Is— are there hellish realms? Or is there a hell in Hinduism?

There is a hell in Hinduism, Patal Lok.

Yeah. Okay. And why do you think you experienced that? As you mentioned earlier, most of the time we hear about NDEs, we hear positive experiences. But we do know there's a certain percentage that are, that are we call less than positive.

You know, they say pain is 100 times more transformative than pleasure. And Maybe I need a lot of transformation in my life. You know, to transform. Yeah, I can't give a reason. People ask me, why did you have an NDE and somebody else doesn't have an NDE? You know, there's no reason I can give, you know, I can relate the fact.

Sure, sure. I just wonder what your thought might be on that. Because it is, it It is an experience that people have, but it seems to be relatively rare. Now, one thing I— and I want to bring this up because I post NDE experiences on my website. And a lot of times people ask me, what about hell? And it was interesting, I was listening to a guy who had an NDE just a couple days ago, and he said he experienced hell. And he claimed hell was eternal, a place of infinite punishment, eternal punishment, but yet he didn't stay in hell eternally. He was taken out similarly to you were. What are your thoughts now after you've had this experience about an eternal hell?

You know what I believe? If you own up to your mistakes, and you are forgiven, or you forgive yourself for your mistakes, and you ask for help from God or your ancestors, you can get out of hell.

Yeah, that seems to be your experience. And as I said, I've heard a couple of people who have had these experiences, and they'll insist that hell is eternal, yet they're always removed from hell themselves. This guy said he was taken down and he almost touched the lake of fire. And then he was, you know, he was, he was rescued. And that seems to be a fairly universal experience.

That's what I'm saying, you know, I was rescued by my father.

Yes, yes. And you said your father and you had a strained relationship. So were you surprised that your father was the one that rescued you?

I was very surprised. He looked much younger. And so that was the first realization I had. He loved me after all. Growing up, I thought he didn't love me, you know. He would— he— I got my share of beating if he had a bad day in the office. And I did. Even a small mistake, I used to get beaten.

Yeah. And you're— you had mentioned in your, in your bio that you, your relationship with your son, I think at the time was, was kind of strained. Do you think that was a result of the relationship you had with your father?

Exactly, because I was becoming my father, because he was not good in studies. And I wanted him to become a doctor, not considering what he wants to do. So after my NDE, he flunked his medical school. But I was calm. And I said, if you don't want to be a doctor, you can leave. So he left medical school and then went into computers. And now he's in San Francisco and very happy. He is not probably making as much as he could have made as a doctor. But the main thing now I realize it is the happiness and what you enjoy you get from your work.

And, you know, you said before your NDE, you were pursuing material things, you had the house, you had the car. Did you feel like that stuff brought you happiness?

It didn't. It was always more, more, more. To be honest with you, I had initially done pediatrics residency. But pediatricians are the lowest paying specialty in America. So I said, let me go to a specialty which makes the maximum money, very good money. So I went into the second residency. Residencies are not easy in anesthesia. So I could literally double my income.

Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of us think that making more money, having more stuff will make us happy, which is an interesting illusion. Because when we talk to people that have the level that we think we would be happy at, they're not happy.

Yeah. So, you know, like, I think the basic— they have— I've read also, you know, they've done a lot of studies. If the basic needs are met, you know, food, shelter, and a car which takes you from one place to another, then the amount of money doesn't make you happy. That's my experience. It's the relationships which make you happy.

Yeah. And there have been studies that have actually backed that up. There's that happiness once you reach a certain level of income, and it changes, of course. But once you reach a certain level income, the happiness scale does not go up as you make more money.

Yeah. But you still need your basic needs met.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So you said a lot of times when people have near-death experiences, they're very reluctant to share them with other people. And I think especially a doctor, because doctors are trained to be very material. You know, you could disagree with that if you'd like. But so you actually shared with the nurses pretty much right away that you'd had this experience?

Yeah. And, you know, I shared with my colleagues too, they thought, and then I said that I'm resigning. They sort of have gone crazy to give up such a lucrative job. I was making really good money to give that up to follow a spiritual path. They thought I'm crazy.

So when you were, you're in the operating room, you had this experience. Is there any documentation that your heart stopped or anything like that?

You know, in the medical record.

Okay. And you, you were able to tell them the joke that the anesthesiologist had told while you were, while you were out. Was there any explanation for that, your ability to do that?

No, you know, it was my experience. I'm just curious if the doctor said, well, this is because of, you know, you know, that As anesthesiologist, I can tell you hearing is the first sense which comes back. Okay. And he said maybe you were light in anesthesia. But if I was light in anesthesia, why was I not in pain?

Yes.

If I was light in anesthesia, I should have pain.

Right.

But I didn't have pain.

Right. And I was listening to one of your accounts earlier. I think you said you saw some family members who were still here when you had your experience. Is that true?

No, I saw my mother as in India.

In India, right, right. And what was she doing at the time?

You know, she and my sister were discussing what to cook for dinner because It was morning time here, it was evening time there. Then I called my mother when I was well enough to call, and she corroborated that.

So it sounds like you never had any doubt of your experience. You know, you did you— did you think, okay, well, maybe I was light in anesthesia, or maybe this was a dream? Or did you know immediately that this was real?

I know it was real. Because as I said, the changes which happened in me, and all of kind of fast. That is the proof, you know.

Yeah. And your belief in reincarnation before this, again, your background is Hindi. And I know that's common in the Hindu religion. But had you given much thought to reincarnation?

You know, growing up in India, it is given that we are reincarnated. So I believed before, but I didn't pay attention. So my belief was confirmed, because I saw my past life and my wrist healed. Yeah, it's never late to forgive somebody or ask forgiveness, even if you did it in the past, the person has died, or you, you can still ask forgiveness.

I think that's a very important lesson. You know, I've heard so many people, I deal with people in grief, and we have regrets because we'd said something or we didn't say something or we did something in the past. And I'll hear people say, well, it's too late to ask for forgiveness because they're gone. So how would you respond to that?

No, you can say that there is— they still have spirit. You know, you can ask forgiveness, you know, you can write a letter to them and just burn it and let it go through the ethers to, to their spirit.

Yeah. So how did your family respond to your changes when, when you— again, I think that there's a lot of evidence why near-death experiences are real. And you had a couple of what we call veridical things. You had— you could tell the joke the anesthesiologist told. You could tell what your mother and your sister were doing in India at the time you had your operation. But the other, other things about NDEs that is amazing is people literally change their lives, and people don't change their lives because of hallucinations. So how did your family respond to that?

Okay, as I said, my sister, my daughter believed, my wife believed, But my boys, they were agnostic, they didn't care. But, you know, 5, 6 years later, my— initially my marriage improved. I've been married for 35 years. And then my marriage started falling apart. Because I was not the same man my wife married.. And you know, the divorce rate of people who had an NDE is almost double from regular divorce rate. Even Dr. Eben Alexander is a classic example. He got divorced after his NDE. And so that I had to work on saving marriage. My marriage was only one signature short of the finalizing the divorce. And from there we turned around. Mutual love, mutual respect, mutual care. It was not just love, it was respect and care that we practiced, both of us, and forgiveness for each one of us, that we turned around. And my last 5 years have been the best 5 years of my 35 years of marriage.

Wow, that just gave me goosebumps. That's so good to hear. You know, when my daughter passed away, I had some people come to me and quote to me statistics about people who lose a child, and the divorce rate is so high, which is actually not true. But people say that. But I know it is true for people that have near-death experiences. But it does go to show that if you work at it, you can, you can come back from it. But these changes, and this is why I've heard some people even say, well, I'm literally not the same person I was when I, when I, when I, before I had my experience, like, I have a different soul or something. So the spouse says, who is this person? Who's this person? This is not the person that I married.

That's what I'm saying. That's happened, happened in my marriage. You know, so I had to work on it. And then I had to, it was a lot of work, you know, like giving an example. You know, I was busy giving lectures and I had forgotten to take care of my wife. I took her, oh, she's an Indian woman, she's a— where is she going to go? And I took her for granted. Giving you an example, we went to the mall and I asked her, what do you want for coffee? And she said, don't you know you've been married to me for so many years what I like for coffee? In the small things count. And then I remember, thank God that she loves coffee latte. I didn't know her size. But now I do small things like buy her nightstand, she likes to have a glass of water. So I make sure every night that I put water there. And there's small things, you know what I remind, this is me or Mother Teresa's quote, we all can't do big things, but we all can do little things with great love.

And is that a lesson you learned from your NDE? When you are from your life review?

Yeah, I learned the power of forgiveness. My wrist healing was the biggest proof, you know, because in this life I was having pain.

Right, right. So that you think that was a carryover from the things you had done in the past life, and that was manifesting itself as physical discomfort in this life? Exactly. So I know that you said you in your book, you taught, you kind of stopped in a couple of years after your near-death experience. So what has happened to you since that time?

So one thing I told you about my marriage, and then I had visions of Jesus Christ and angels. You know, dreams and angels. So I was led to Christianity to follow Jesus because I had felt the presence of Jesus in my near-death experience. But I had not seen him. But I had visions later on of Jesus. And I was running around doing different things and I was not finding the clear path. So I went to the local church here, Twin Peaks. And to become a member of that church. And they actually baptized me in the ocean. It was, you know, like they said, you know, Jesus was baptized in Jordan River, right? So they baptized me in ocean, in the Pacific Ocean. It was scary because I don't know how to swim. It was, but it was a short dip only, you know. And there were two people behind me, two people in front of me, in case I float away. So, but then traditional Christianity was not vibing with me. So then there is something known as New Thought.

Yes.

And I became passionate about New Thought. And that's where I am now with the Unity Movement. Yes.

Interesting. That's very interesting. Because a lot of people that have had near-death experiences give up their religion. It's just the opposite. They're like, I don't want anything to do with religion. Jesus is a big figure in near-death experiences, even for people that aren't Christians. You know, you said you were nominally Hindu. I interviewed a young man, he was 3 years old when he had his experience. He experienced Jesus, but he was, he was a Jew. He was raised Jewish. So I do believe that there seems to be something to Jesus. But you found traditional Christianity lacking.

Yeah. See, what I like about the New Thought is that God, you know, is not an old man, a white man, an old man with a beard sitting on a throne above in the sky. They talk about the God is within us. You know, and like Jesus who walked the earth had, you know, reached the highest potential of humankind, and that's how he became Christ. So our goal is to increase the level of our consciousness to Christ consciousness, which we all are capable of doing.

Interesting. So the ideas of Christianity about, you know, being saved by Jesus being crucified and about eternal hell and things like that, you don't believe in?

I don't believe in.

Okay.

A New Thought, New Thought, especially Unity Church does not believe in.

Yeah, I actually, I don't go to church anymore. But the last church I attended was Unity. And that's the closest thing I've found to if I were going to go to church, that's where where I would go, because it is much more open. As you said, God is, God is within. There's no original sin teaching. There's none of that stuff that some of the trappings that I think people put on to Jesus's teachings.

Yeah. And something they say, the religion is what Jesus taught, not about Jesus. Christianity is what Jesus taught. No, it should not be about Jesus.

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, the thing is that, you know, the Bible that we have, and I don't want to get too far into this, but the Bible that we have is, it wasn't written by Jesus. And so I don't know how much he would approve or not approve of it. So what were the, what were some of the lessons that you, that you came back with? I know that there, you mentioned there were 7 spiritual lessons that you learned. What were some of them?

You know, some of them were, as I mentioned, like we have past lives, and the consciousness can live without body. And we are all connected to each other. And the true nature of God is love. And what else was it? Yeah, these.

Yeah, that sounds, sounds great. And your father, I know you said your father was a harsh man when he was here. Do you believe that we continue to grow after we, after we cross over?

I think so. He was a changed man when I met him. He was a changed man. Yeah.

And what have your experiences— a lot of times when people again have had near-death experiences, they'll come back with various abilities, psychic abilities, abilities. You know, sometimes weird things will happen around them with electronics and things like that. So have you had anything like that?

Not exactly, you know, I became more intuitive. And I became— have visions. And actually, I had a shared death experience too. If you read my book, there was vision and shared death experience. My best friend died with liver cancer. And then when he was dying, I went to with him up to a certain level, and then I turned back. That's when I saw Jesus. And that's when actually Jesus said that my name should be Michael, my religious name or spiritual name is Michael. So when I got baptized, you know, baptism was only 2-3 years ago. Then my name became Rajiv Michael Pati. That's what baptism certificate says.

Okay. Okay. So you, you have other experiences. You said you've had visions and you had this shared death experience, which is something that a lot of people aren't really familiar with. I wasn't myself until just a few years ago.

Yeah. You know, shared death experiences, like somebody near and dear to you, or nurses working in hospice experience, your soul goes to a certain level towards heaven or hell, or, you know, on the journey of the other soul. But there is a fence, there is a valley, or there is a river that stops your soul, but the other soul keeps going. So you're told to go back.

And so what was the barrier that you saw when you crossed with your friend?

It was, I think, a wall. Okay.

Okay. Was that— were you there? Were you present with him physically when he crossed? Or was— were you at a distance?

I was actually— I saw him at night. And then in the morning, I woke up suddenly. And then I read my wife told me he just passed.

Okay. Okay.

I saw a light in my room. Oh, okay.

And have you had any experiences of him since then? Has he come to you at all, any, in any kind of way?

I see him in dreams.

Okay.

You know, vision and dreams, you know. And, you know, like, for me, the biggest proof is that I became a— and went to Christianity.

Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're a totally changed man at this point from who you were before, you know, before you had this experience. And so what is it you're doing today?

So Unity has a program called Licensed Unity Teacher. So I'm studying to be a Licensed Unity Teacher, and I have given my application to be a ministerial school of unity. So if I get accepted, I'll become a reverend. So then I'll be giving sermons every Sunday and be a help to my community. Like this book I'm reading is Eric Butterworth's The Universe Is Calling.

Yeah, yeah, I've read that.

Yeah, basically he's talking about how to pray without talking to God. You know, God, you don't always beg for things. You're not trying to please God with flattery.

So, so what are your thoughts on, on God? That's a, that's a big subject. So what is God to you?

God is a universal spirit which manifests through us. And people give different names. And God, when I say God, is not the traditional God. But that's the easiest way to say it.

Yeah, I know people do get hung up on the word God because it does imply Christianity, it does imply the guy sitting on the throne, who's there to judge us. And I know that's, that's not what you mean. That's why I wanted to give you an opportunity to Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

You're not judged, you're in love, you're loved.

Yeah.

And there is grace which is always flowing. You know, the way I say grace does not differentiate between a sinner or somebody who has done bad or who is good. Grace is there for everyone. And what we need to do is like on a boat, there's a mast, So we need to hoist our masts and the wind will take you. So grace is there for everyone. But we have to make the effort to hoist the masts.

I love that analogy. So we need to accept the grace that's constantly flowing.

And one of the favorite parables for me from Bible is the parable of the sower. So the seeds are falling, you know, they fall on rocky soil, they don't germinate. They fall on thorns, they germinate, but then they wither away. You know, there's 4 levels. And once they fall on a foot, which has been land which has been prepared for it, they grow and become big trees. So we have to prepare for the seeds, the land, for them to germinate and grow. So we have to do our part.

So what are your thoughts now? I know you didn't— something you didn't think about death much before your experience. But what are your thoughts on death now when someone passes, like your friend, for example? How do you view that?

You know, that is, you know, like, like Indian book Gita is the Bible of Hindus. Says soul is which cannot be cut, cannot be burned, and cannot be dried. So the— and death is basically changing of clothes for the soul. The old body has worn out, so the soul leaves that body and takes birth as a new body.

Okay, so you don't see death as, as an end to anything other than the physical body?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Well, your, your experience is fascinating. And I think, I thank you for sharing it. I know, sometimes when people have what we call negative— I don't like the word negative, but less than pleasant near-death experiences, they feel some sort of shame about sharing them. And I think we shouldn't turn away from all experiences, because I think they're all they can all teach us something.

Yeah. That's what I'm sharing. You know, I could have, you know, said, I went to heaven, you know, to look good, but I need to say what things happen.

Well, you know, it's— PMH Atwater tells a story about— I think she was in a room giving a lecture, and someone stood up and said they had a hellish near-death experience. And they said it was the best experience of their life. And another person said they had a heavenly near-death experience, and they said it wasn't the best experience of their life, but that, that it seems to be for some people kind of a turning point, kind of a, kind of a wake-up call.

Yeah. It was a wake-up call for me. That's what my book name is, Dying to Wake Up. Right.

So in your opinion, and I know, you know, I'm asking something you may not have an answer to, but That experience, that hellish experience, do you think that's like a self-imposed thing? It's because— is it self-imposed, or you think it's imposed from the outside?

The hellish experience is, I think, self-imposed. As I said, you have to be responsible for your actions.

Yeah, that would, that would be my understanding. I think, I think sometimes people when they cross over, subconsciously maybe even feel like, I'm not worthy of, you know, of going to that blissful place. And it seems to me that to be a temporary thing, as it was for you, until we realize that's not— this is not where I want to be.

Yeah. And then you have to show some repentance to make amends and ask for help. As I said, grace is there for everyone in this life and in the afterlife. And that grace can save you.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anything else you'd like to share before, before we end today?

No, it was a great conversation.

Yeah, I thank you very much for doing this. I think this is, again, a very, very important lesson because when we hear these reports, right, and I don't want to ignore the negative reports or the other not so pleasant reports, but we need to put them in some sort of context. And people have taken this idea that someone says, I went to hell, and I've, again, I've heard several people say this, and I can't emphasize it enough. I went to a place of eternal torment, but universally, they're not there. So they were all taken out. Howard Storm famously had a not so pleasant experience. As soon as he asked for help, he was taken out. And every time I've heard, I've heard anybody share a negative experience, they were somehow rescued from it. And I think that's a very important lesson that there is.

I believe that, you know, people ask me how to get out of hell. I said, own your mistakes, ask for help and pray.

Yeah. And the other lesson I take from that is it's never too late.

It's never too late. And, and forgiveness is never too late. That's one of my best advice.

Yeah. Dr. Pardi, thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you, Brian. It was my pleasure.

All right, enjoy the rest of your day.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks for listening to Grief to Growth. Brian hopes that you find this episode helpful, and will come back for future episodes. Brian's best-selling book, Grief to Growth: Planted, Not Buried, is a great resource for anyone who is coping with grief. Or know someone who is. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support it, there are 3 things you can do to help. The first is to share the podcast with someone that you think it will help. The second is to go to iTunes, rate and review the episode. The third way you can support the podcast is by becoming a patron. Head over to www.patreon.com/grief2growth patreon.com/grief, the number 2, growth, and sign up to make a small monthly donation. Patrons get access to exclusive bonus content and knowledge that you are helping to spread the message of grief to growth. For more about Brian and grief to growth, visit www.grieftogrowth.com.

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