Transform Your Life TODAY: Gitanjali Hemp's POWERFUL Insights on Humanity and Joy!

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that.

And I want you to know there's still a place for you.

I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian D Smith says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief to Growth. And today I've got with me Kitanjari. I know I messed it up. She just told me. She'll correct it for me. And she is a master energy healer, a visionary mystic, and the founder of Centara System. She brings over 23 years of study and training with healers and masters from some of the world's richest traditions and most cutting-edge healing models. She spent 21 years in active practice, both as a practitioner and a teacher, leading retreats, workshops, professional trainings, virtual courses, and facilitating ceremonies and women's groups. There's nothing she loves more than helping people awaken to the magic of creation and fully embody their unique brilliance in service to the whole. And she's developed a system called the Centara System, which we're going to talk about today. So with that, I want to introduce Kajali— Kitanjali Hemp. And forgive me for butchering your name after you told me how to say it.

But yeah, you said it so well earlier. It's Kitanjali.

Gitanjali. Yeah.

And, and you can say Gita.

Okay, there we go.

All right.

I hate to be— I hate to be an American that can't pronounce foreign names, but I'm having trouble with that one. So, um, we were start— we were talking before we started recording, and I was telling you one of the things I like to ask people is why they do what they do. Um, so I do want to ask you, like, how you got into doing what you do.

Yeah, and I'm happy to answer, and my response to you is that I would love to hear from you, um, in order to really shape this conversation in a way that's really useful for your listeners and, and, and the conversations that are already happening here. And so I'm just really curious why you do what you do and what this podcast means to you.

Yeah, that's, that's a fair question. Turnabout is fair play. So the reason why I do what I do is I believe that we all go through different types of grief events in our life. If we live on this planet long enough, we are going to go through grief. And I know you and I are going to talk about some different types of grief today. There's the grief of losing a loved one, grief of losing a job, you know, the grief of losing a relationship, different types of grief that we go through. So the thing is, I don't think we do a very good job in our society of equipping, equipping people to go through grief, of letting them know what to expect, and what kind of tools that they can, they can have to deal with that grief. So the whole purpose of the podcast is to help people heal. To heal from whatever tragic event they've gone through. So that's the reason I do what I do. I've been through a tragic event myself, the passing of my daughter 7 years ago tomorrow. And that set me on a whole new course in my life. And I want to share that with people.

Wow, it's powerful. And the anniversary is coming tomorrow.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm honored to be sitting here with you. And I love hearing your why. And what occurs to me in hearing you speak, one of the things is that, you know, I think there's a way we can look at everything in our life, we're gonna lose like every single thing, every person that we love, everything that we adore. And in some way it makes everything really sacred. There's an opening that can happen there too. Just a real honoring of the tenderness of life. Yeah, we all go through grief. So yeah.

Yeah. So I, you know, it was funny, I was just thinking about that earlier today about like, how the— because things are temporary, we do place more value on them. I think that that's part of, part of the sacredness, as you put it, of life. So I'm curious for yourself, what got you into doing this type of work?

Yeah, so the work I do, you know, grief isn't necessarily the exact focal point. But, but in the work that I do, in the system that I developed, we're really working with the energies of the unseen realms, and really working in the causal realm. So a lot of energy work is working with the energy of thoughts, of feelings, of emotions, of the form itself of our body. But the work that we're doing is kind of working with what informs that. And so it's really the energy of spirit. And so in that place, there's so much that happens that is kind of outside of our perceptual lens culturally. And is relegated to the realms of religion sometimes. But that really, if we have more language for it, we can have more access to these other aspects of being. And I think they can kind of bring a fuller perspective and experience of what it means to be human and how we live and how we relate. And I think that that can actually be really soothing for us in a lot of ways.

Yeah, so tell me about Centara. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. So I know it's the system, and I was looking at your page, some of your stuff earlier, and I noticed you talked about purpose. We are— you made a post on LinkedIn about purpose. And I think that's really important because again, relating it to grief, a lot of times when we go through a grief event, we lose our purpose. And in my case, most of my listeners are parents who have lost children. And when you've, when you've lost a child and you're a parent, you're like, why am I here? What do I do? It just kind of throws us all off.

Yeah, again, I just want to honor that. I can't imagine the level of what that what that means to lose a child. And one thing that occurs to me in your sharing of that is that one of the things we look at when we're looking at the, at the energy, we're working with fields of all different sorts. And when we lose someone that's close to us, there's a big reorganization in the energy field. So in the relational field, the place where our relationships live, and the ways that we're engaged in connecting and interacting with humans in our day-to-day life, and the people who are close to us very strongly, it is really shaping our energy field in our body. And so when we lose them, there's literally a tearing, or a shedding or pulling away. And that is viscerally painful, physically painful. It's a, it's a, it's a very real experience of that tearing and that severing that occurs. And in that tearing and severing, what happens in the energy is that when someone close to us passes, they move into a different orientation, we're still connected to them. But not in the same day-to-day relational way. So they move into the ancestral fields, they move into these other spaces. And it's very disorienting in the period afterwards when that reorganization is occurring, because we're used to looking for them in a certain place, and they're not there anymore. And it takes time to begin to feel where they might be and where they are. They're still with us, but in a really, really different way. And so the purpose question is that that reorganization takes time to reconfigure and to find our own alignment within this big reorientation and reorganization, particularly with someone who's so deeply embedded and ingrained in our system in some way, as a child would be.

Yeah, I think I've never actually heard it put that way, but that's— I think that puts in the words, I think, what a lot of us feel. Um, there is, as a parent, and again, especially as a mother— most of my listeners are mothers— there's a, there's a real physical connection between us and our offspring. And there is, there is that ripping away, and we feel disoriented because it's like, they're— are they gone? We want to know, are they really, really gone? And I love the way you said that they're not gone, but we have to connect with them in a different way.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge reorientation and reorganization. So, so are they gone? Yes and no, right? I think a lot of the time when we're working the energy, there's this way that there's this both/and, there's this dual experience. Yeah. And so I think, I think one of the biggest pieces is that curiosity or that opening, like if they're not there, where are they? And to feel for that, like, where is the place that there's opening or connection?

So how does Centara help with that?

So Centara helps with that in several different ways. One of, one of the ways is that we really, over time, can help to train people in feeling the relational field, being able to perceive it and work with it, and feeling the ancestral fields in these different spaces. So when an occurrence like this happens, or we go through experiences in life, there's a way we can more directly access and work with those spaces. So we can do things to tend to those ripped and torn places in the energy directly. And so that can feel soothing, it can feel, feel recalibrating to the nervous system. It's still going to be painful, it doesn't take away all of the pain or the experience. But there can be more of a sense of agency and understanding. And the thing that I love about the energy work is that it's not someone else asking you to have blind faith about what's happening. It's you being able to get into direct relationship with your own truth of what is happening for you. It's like getting current with what's actually occurring in these unseen spaces in your own being. And that can feel really empowering, not necessarily making things less difficult, but maybe allowing there to be more stability within the difficulty.

Well, the thing is, we— and I did kind of start this off specific what I've gone through, but we all go through different types of things. And I think, and I noticed, again, look at some of your materials, and you talked about the fact that we as a species are going through difficult times right now, very disorienting times, and a lot of people have lost their footing, you know, they've lost their way.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss. And still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become. A place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth.

I hope to see you there.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's a huge marker of the times. And I think there's going to be a lot more of that. And I think there's tremendous grieving going on consciously and unconsciously with things that are happening in the world and with the environment and socially and politically. And I think it's going to continue to be that way. And so how do we be with this? And what is our, our purpose, our role? Again, like, how do we, how do we get with that, get current? And I think, again, we offer so many things in the energy work with it. And one of those things is You know, it's like the most simple practice. And it's really getting comfortable with the not knowing, really getting comfortable with the mystery. And so there's kind of this prayer practice that we offer, that it's like when we have the place of not knowing, that's actually the opening of the greatest potency and power, if we allow it to be. In our culture, we're kind of taught that like, if we don't know something, that's the weak place. That's the place that that's not good. That's, you know, that's something we always want to know. And we feel safe in knowing that makes sense. But if we can start to turn that narrative around, and when there's something I don't know, like I don't know how to function after this experience, or I don't know how to be with this level of, you know, chaos or confusion or whatever it is, I don't know how to fill in the blank, then we can, we can go back and we can say, even though I don't know how to do this, I trust that something greater than me, that also lives deep within me does know. And I open to that wisdom now. And if we can really sit with that in a prayerful kind of meditative experience and in the energy and feel for what occurs to us, what life starts to show us, sometimes a new pathway can show itself, something else starts to spark. We start to connect to the person that we lost in a different way or different orientation, we see them in the conversation we have or in the way the tree moves in the wind, or, you know, whatever it is, something else shows itself to us. And the same thing with purpose and with life. So I don't know how to, I don't know, make a living in this economy, you know, whatever it is, it can be very mundane. I don't know how to do this, but I trust that there's a greater wisdom and intelligence. There's an evolutionary current of life that is 4 billion years old that lives inside of my cells, has evolved from an amoeba into this form of thinking human. And if I can connect to that in some way and then be open to what I'm compelled or shown next, there might be a pathway that I couldn't rationally have thought of, but that starts presenting itself that I can start meeting and moving towards. I mean, I imagine, you know, there was a before and after with the loss of your daughter and that your life doesn't look like anything you would have imagined it to before then. There's kind of these turning points, these pathways, these unexpected twists. And I think we're collectively in that right now. We don't know, there's no way we can know what things are gonna look like 10 or 15 years from now. More than other times, I think so. Yeah.

And it is a very scary time for that reason. As you said, humans, we've evolved to, to want— in our society, particularly to want answers, to want to know what things are going to hold. And the reality is, we never have known, it's just, we trick ourselves into thinking that we do. And you talked about, you know, really an unconscious and a conscious level of grief. And I think what's happened over the last couple years is what has been unconscious for a long time is becoming conscious.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that, that has its own discomfort, right? And I think it's very challenging to the psyche of many.

Yeah, well, I think probably to the psyche of all of us, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think that— I think, I think there's an opportunity here. And I think what, you know, what do we do with that when we get hit with something that's really uncomfortable or destabilizing, or we lose our sense of self, or we feel cornered in some way? I think all these things part of the conversation we're having, is we have a choice, we have lots of choices. But, but I think the fundamental choice is, do we behave badly because of that? Do we feel scarce? And do we act out? Or do we use it as an opportunity to open in some way? Do we recognize the sacredness of life in that way of knowing we're going to lose all things? So, so what do I actually hold dear? Where are my actual true values? And how do I align with those in the face of whatever it is, because everything's going to be lost anyway. So how do I want to play this game? Or do I try to hold on for dear life and keep things as comfortable for me as possible for as long as I possibly can, hurting everything else around me? And I think that's kind of like, if there's two very divergent paths, there's obviously gray shades in between. But I think those are the two paths that are before us in some way.

Yeah, well, yeah, I think that comes down to the fact that we we don't have a choice of what happens to us, we have a choice in how we react to it, as you said. And there are two basic paths. And when we get knocked off our feet, we can, we can say, okay, well, this, this is terrible. I can't believe this happened to me. And we can just sit with that. Or we can, as you said, say, this is, this is life. And how am I going to, how am I going to deal with this? And how can I turn this into something that's, that's better than, you know, the way I'm looking at it right now?

Yeah, so, um, Centara, we call it a resource-based model, and one of the core principles is basically that resource builds resilience, and when we are resilient, we tend to make better choices, we take risks, um, we, we show up in openness, um, and we innovate. And so, and so our, our foundational practices are that, like, okay, so, so where is the resource in any moment? And resource is different for each one of us. So this is, this is one of the things we talk about. There's some overarching commonalities, like we want resource that feels— we want our nervous system to be regulated, but what regulates my system is going to be different than what regulates yours, actually, based on a million different things, you know, past lived experience, our conditioning and cultural growing up, our ancestry. But to begin to determine where are the places that are already resourceful for me, how do I build and grow on those, And then how do I also begin to expand on the spaces that are less resourceful in my world and in my life? And this can include, you know, community level and relationally. This can include just in my own day-to-day practices and ways of being. It can be in the way that I think and the way that I move in the world. Like, so there's a lot of different places that we'll start to look at and work with to help to build more and more stability and resource and resonance within the energy body and the energy field so that the nervous system can stay regulated so that we can make good choices and move from that place of trustfulness.

Yeah. So, so it sounds like you kind of help people take an inventory of, of what they've— what their resources are and what resources they need. Is that correct?

Yeah. And working within the model, we can look really directly at the energy and see where the places are that are, that are functioning well and the places that are a little bit less so. So we work with a primary organizing principle of the energy of the Taurus, which is an energy movement and function. And we can track that. And then we can kind of see where things get destabilized or where they get uncomfortable. When we get triggered, we orient opposing to our, to our strong orientation, we get, we get turned around, we get turned inside out. And so there's ways that we can shift that really quickly and at will once we start understanding our energy body. And so for all of us, you know, it's kind of like we're walking through life and then something hits us and then we go into some sort of altered state. And sometimes from those trigger places, we make poor choices. And so if we get better and better at recognizing our triggers and knowing how to quickly transition ourselves out of that and get back into a regulated nervous system, then our choices and therefore our creation can be a little bit more aligned with what we are, with our values.

Yeah. So you mentioned energy body. Explain what our energy body actually is.

Yeah, so there's a lot of ways to answer that question. So the energy body, um, you know, if you go to a chiropractor, they're going to say the body is the basis of— I mean, the, the spinal column and the nervous system is the basis of everything else. Everything else is set up around that. And you go to, you know, whoever you go to, they're going to orient the world from there perspective and their lens. So I orient the world from the energy perspective. So what I would say is that energy precedes form, not the other way around. So it's not that, oh, I have a body and emits energy. That is true. It's a closed circuit. But what I would say more is that there's energy and consciousness that condenses and densifies into form. So there's template layers that precede my physical form. So in the energy, I can find a template and an expression and experience of every aspect of my physical, emotional, mental being.

Okay. Yeah, I think that that is a— that is an ancient way of looking at things. And it's interesting, because I think science is starting to come back around to that finally, that consciousness precedes the material. And that, and that just flips everything that we've learned in our Western world in the last 100 years, on its head.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the amazing thing too, right? It's like, yeah, everything in our Western world in the last 100 years, but then you go back 50,000 years and, you know, and there is that understanding. So it's really just a return and a remembrance. And really that all of our ancestors, all of our ancestors, wherever we came from, held some form of knowing and understanding of this. There's systems upon systems and languages and mythologies and cosmologies and healing models. And they all reflect this. So it's really just like this blip in time that we've gotten a little confused, and a return and a remembering, I think, will really set us back on our feet in a good way collectively if we can make that turn and that remembering.

I could not agree with you more. And as a chemical engineer myself by training, you know, and being trained in this whole materialistic way of looking at things, I was speaking with someone the other day I was interviewing for my podcast, and they said, well, I don't want to appear too woo-woo. And I'm like, I don't have a problem appearing woo-woo, because this is the truth. And the fact that we've got everything backwards is the problem that we have right now. The fact that we think we are our bodies. And the fact that we think like our mind, our brains generate our mind, as opposed to the other way around, that our mind actually creates our body. That's, that's why we have it upside down.

Yeah. And Yeah, we have it upside down. It's reflected in a lot of the things in our world. I think, you know, it's almost like, um, like everything's backwards in our world, right? It's like the people who should get paid the most get paid the least, the people who should get paid the least get paid the most. It's like things are just— all of our systems are kind of in inverse, really, in some ways. So, um, yeah, when I think about a turning, there's danger in any kind of a birth or transition, and I think that collectively we're in that, and there is inherent danger and there's no knowing, you know, how we get through this or how much damage will be done in the process. And I think it's a turning towards coming back into right relationship and that inverse relationship coming into a greater coherent alignment. I think amazing things could happen. I think, yeah, I think amazing things could happen.

Yeah, I, like I said, I could not, I could not agree with you more. And we are in, and I talked to so many people who are intuitives who are doing this energy work and talk about like our collective consciousness, which I believe we do have. And they're like, we're coming to a real inflection point. We're coming to a real turning point where we're at a point of crisis. And I love that. And when I saw your, your information come across my desk, I was like, I love the fact that people are doing this type of work now. And it's becoming more accepted. And it's not being seen so much as woo woo, but it's something that's absolutely necessary.

Yeah, I mean, that, that's part of the gift of the destabilization, right? It's like, I actually work with a lot of entrepreneurs and people in the corporate spaces too. And what I see happening is that with the amount of destabilization, there's a lot of things in the last 2 years that would have never been on the table before, like conversations or risks or directions that are being taken that would have never been within the realm of possibility, because everything was a little bit more, you know, A plus B equals C, and it works. And as things don't work, there's a little bit more of like, like, well, what do we do? And so there's an opening to, well, let's try this. Let's see what happens here. Oh, this actually makes sense. This could actually— there's just an opening in the minds and in the potentials of people and organizations that wasn't there before. So I'm hoping that it doesn't have to get to too steep of a crisis state for the change, for the shifts and changes that really need to happen to occur.

Yeah. Well, the Frankly, that's human nature. We do what we feel is working until it doesn't work anymore. And I think we all do. And that's why, you know, the people that I interview, for the most part, you know, they come to me through some point of crisis, through something that hit their life, and it just, it wasn't working anymore, whether it's the death of a loved one, or whether it's the illness, or whether it's a loss of a job, or You know, alcoholic hitting bottom. There's always some crisis point, it seems like. And I think that's true of us individually and collectively.

Yeah.

And I think it's a little frustrating because I don't think it has to be that way. And I think, yeah, we are creatures of habit, so we get really comfortable in some way or another and then we just stick with that until we don't have to anymore. And I know, I mean, it's as subtle as— so again, you know, if Centara is a system of resource, this becomes part of the conversation. So it's really hard to leave something that's all good, just to know that it's not right anymore. Right? We can say this about a job. We can say this about a relationship. We can say we don't want the feeling of loss or grieving or shaking things up. We, we like stability. We like things to stay the same. And it's a really high point. And this is why if we have a lot of resource and resilience, we can take the risks to say, I just know this isn't right anymore. There's something else that I'm supposed to be stepping towards and stepping into. And the better that I can do this, the more gracefully and easily I can do this, the easier things shift and move, because things are always wanting to shift and move. But when I try to fix on things to stay in a certain way, in the way that they've always been, and it's wanting to change, then a crisis has to happen in order to allow the shift to occur. And so this is, this is one of the reasons that it's so important to really find those levels of stability and to really begin to learn how to really listen to the nuance of what my aligned desire, what my purpose, what my sense of self is calling to me next, in a clear and grounded way. Because I think that that capacity in us individually and translated collectively can help us not have to hit those crisis zones. And it's a really big ask of our human animal nature. Yeah, our reptilian brain is not really, you know, excited about this. About that type of transition or shift.

Yeah, well, you know, as you were saying, I was just thinking though, but a lot of us, we think things are working for us. And you talked about, for example, leaving a job. We're miserable in that job. We hate the job. We don't like our boss. We're not really happy with it. But we feel like, but it pays the bills, you know, so we settle. And I think it's because we don't have that confidence, as you said, that knowing the resources that we have internally, and the confidence to say, I can, I can do more, I can hope for more, I can want more. We don't have to go through a crisis point. I, I agree with you.

Yeah. And I think that there are learned skills along the way, right? It's like, there is like, how do I stabilize in myself? How do I know that I can create the connections and things that I need to? What do I want to do? It's like not just leaving and being, you know, I'm, I'm a proponent for groundedness. I'm a proponent for, you know, I had a teacher and he would talk about pouring sand. It's like a Tai Chi thing. It's like pouring sand from one foot to the other when you're, when you're making a It's not like you flying a flying leap and jumping, but it's like, can I slowly choice by choice, moment by moment reposition myself? So there's ground underneath me when I move in this other direction, if it's leaving a job or whatever else. And, and sometimes it's like, not even like, oh, I have to leave this job. Sometimes it's like, I have to show up differently in this job and see what happens. And sometimes I get spit out or new positions made or shifts the culture in my sector of the organization. Right. So like there's so many different nuances, but really honoring those places of knowing, those places of need, those places of knowing something has to change. Yeah. And, and one more piece is that another important learned skill is also the relational skills to be able to communicate these things in good ways with the people around us.

So speak more about that. How, how does that work?

Well, I think there's a way that we're not very good relationally in our culture in general. And so if I have a need in a work environment, I don't know how to speak it sometimes, or I don't think that there's room for it, or there's not a culture that allows for that. But to find ways to get on the same page and to learn how to communicate in such a way that my needs can be heard or honored in a space that maybe doesn't always allow for that, to find pathways of connection and ways in that aren't demanding or demeaning but that are clear and true. And I think that's also a learned skill for many of us, for most of us.

Yeah. And is that something that Centara can help with?

It's a piece of what we do.

Yeah.

Okay.

So the curriculum's— yeah.

So is Centara— is it, is it a curriculum? How to explain to me? I know it's a system, but give me a little more detail.

We'll get back to Grief to Growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving, his book Grief to Growth is a best-selling, easy-to-read book that might help you or someone you know. People work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at www.grieftogrowth.com, www.grief2growth.com. Www.growth.com or text growth, G-R-O-W-T-H, to 31996. If you'd like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/grieftogrowth, www.patreon.com/grief2growth, to make a financial contribution. And now back to Grief to Growth.

So we're working with the unseen realms, we're working with the energy in different ways. And so it's a system of maps and principles that give us access in a way to see what's unseen. So we're really working with, you know, we're working with the energy of the torus, which is a donut-shaped movement, a form of energy, you can look it up, you can Google it, moving my hands for those of you who are listening in the audio. You can Google it and see, see that forming of energy. And so the torus is the fundamental framework and path pattern of energy. And it works kind of like a fractal. It is a fractal. So my entire energy body moves in a toroidal field and flow. And so do each of my energy centers. But not only that, I have a torus, and so does each person in my family. And then they nest together. So my whole family is a torus. That is comprised of each of the toroids of each one in it, right? And then that torus is part of the greater, maybe, community, or, you know, whatever else. And so there are these interlaying, intersecting energy bodies. And so there's this way that when we work with the torus, there's this pattern of resonance that occurs. So we can do family-level healing, we can do collective-level healing, we can do planetary healing, as we do our own individual healing. There's this translation that can occur in different ways. And in the torus, There's layers. So we'll have a layer that's connected to our physical bodies, one that's relative to our emotional body, one that's relative to our mental body, our mental field. So we can literally work with the energy of our thoughts. Um, there's a relational field, so we can work in the relational field directly to create more harmony and get current in our relationships of all sorts. So, so yeah, I'll say that and then leave you for another question if there's something.

Yeah, no, I think that's, that's a good, really good explanation. And one of the things as I was thinking as you were going through that is, I think we often think of ourselves, usually think of ourselves as individuals, it's just, it's me. And, you know, and I'm in this world and I'm alone. And I heard you say reminded me so much of a principle that I adhere to is that none of us is alone. We're all part of these inner nesting groups. We know we have a soul group, to use a term that I use. We have, we have a nuclear family, we have our friends and our neighbors, we have the community, we have the world, and we're all, all interrelated. And it's really important to understand that because we all, we all affect each other with everything that we do.

Yeah, absolutely. And so a big part of Centauro, we work with consciousness states. And so a big part of Centara is talking about getting more mindful and capable of choicefully impacting the energies, co-creating the spaces that we're in. So in the consciousness states, there's a place where we're in, we have parts of us always that are in all of these consciousness states, they're always moving, it's not like a static thing. But when we're in victim consciousness, then the external energy around us has more potency than our internal energy. So whatever's happening in our field around us and the world around us is impacting us deeply, right? In warrior state, we're interfacing and we're at a standoff with the energy of what's outside and around us, but it's defining us completely. We're like butting heads with it. So we're as strong as it, but we're butting heads with this. We don't actually have agency, even if we think we do. When we get into— we call it manifestor consciousness— we do have more agency and we're determining some of what's happening in the space around us. And a lot of us live there when we're like somewhat successful, and we're comfortable and confident. So we're making some choices. But it's pretty static, it's not really dynamic. And the consciousness state that I think that we're evolving to, and that I think we need to evolve to, to function well in this world at this time, is creator consciousness is what we call it. And it's really this weaving of all those other consciousness states. And if I can do that really well, if I can take in and receive the world around me, and then meet it, and then offer something to it, like assimilate, digest, and then offer something choiceful back into the world, I begin— this energy begins kind of rippling off of me and into the world. I begin impacting all of the communities of which I am a part. My Taurus is starting to resonantly impact, and not in a way that's managing or making people this or that, but it's offering some sort of intelligence and wisdom and coherence into the fields that I am a part of, and then new things become possible. And I am actively empowered to impact and influence towards greater coherence the world around me. And I think the more of us that can do that more often, um, the more of a chance we have to get to good places together.

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. I've actually never heard it put that way before, and that makes a lot of sense to me. I know. And a lot of people are into manifesting and law of attraction and stuff. And it's basically like, I'm going to take my will and impose it on the world. Yeah, I'm good. I am. I know I'm not a big fan of it. You can probably tell already. I'm trying to remain open to it. This idea is like, I can just will myself to have this or have that. And I'm like, no, we co-create the world. We're not, we're not all individually guides.

Yeah, and even if you do that, there's going to be a limiting factor. There's going to be a million limiting factors, and it's going to cause disease in the system over time. It's just not sustainable. And so, yeah, so the creator consciousness is a little bit different. We remember our victimhood, we remember our warrior nature, we remember our values, we weave in. In Manifestor, you know, in the way that we frame it, one of the things that happens is that we get to this place, if we get stuck in Manifestor, where we say, I don't want to ever feel the wounded places in me ever again, so I'm going to deny them. So there's all this energy in life, we're stuck in those places. So I am never going to grow into my greater potency and power or find the wisdom that resides in my wounds if I do that. But not only that, in some more stuck in Manifestor, we say, I don't want to hear anything about your wounds. You know, like, I don't, I don't, I don't I don't believe in them. You're creating your own reality. That's not, you know. And so then there's all of this separation. And anytime there's forced separation, there's more and more divisiveness and division, there's more polarization that occurs, it leads to problems in the system, in the structure, collectively, individually, on every level. So creator consciousness begins to build the bridges of weaving, so that things become dynamic and organic. Again, I find the wisdom in the wounds, I'm able to connect and co-create and collaborate and weave transformation into the pockets of the spaces that actually need resource, resilience, and support. And that brings more stability to my world, to all of our world.

Right.

And it is shared.

Yeah.

Yeah. I guess I've never heard it put that way before. It reminds me very much of a concept and a series of books. I always talk about these books. It's called The Team. And they talk about how we have these spheres that we all contribute to with our energy. So everything that we do, we're contributing these spheres, and we all draw from these spheres. And some of them are positive, you know, creativity and love and joy and peace, and some of them are negative. But we're— the whole point is that we're not, we're not as individual as we seem to think we are. And that's one of the things that drives me crazy about the world that we live in right now. It's all about what are my rights, you know, I can do this, I can do that, you don't have a right to tell me what to do. And we don't realize that everything we do impacts everyone.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, so I mean, I work a lot with paradox. I mean, I think a lot of the time what's in the energy versus what's in form, it's a paradoxical continuum. So it's interesting there. But so, you know, what are my rights versus what is my responsibility? And that my responsibility is essentially to joy, and to beauty and to goodness, right? And so it's like this juxtaposition that I have incredible responsibility, but the responsibility to what I have is to the most beautiful thing that I can imagine. And then there's a lot of work that goes into that, right? And a lot of tenderness and a lot of care. But in that work, there's tremendous joy. And I get so much back out of it, right? So it's like, it's all of these paradoxical things. And we're taught to chase pleasure in some kind of way that actually takes us away from it. That's what the culture tells us to do. But if I actually land in my responsibility and my purpose, I actually find pleasure that brings tremendous joy. So it's this, it's all of these interesting— we approach things in ways that don't get us where we want to go.

Yeah, well, it's a paradox of, you know, you have to give up, um, give up something to get something. You know, it's like if we hold on to things— and this is something Jesus said in the Bible, like, you have to give up your life in order to find it— and we don't, we don't like that. We're like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold on to this. It's all, it's all going to be about me. But it's really when we do start to come from a point of giving, of manifesting the good for everybody, then we can start to receive. And I heard you talking earlier, and I remember when I was a little kid, you know, and I was in Sunday school, and they were telling us about like the Eastern religions, and they're like, oh, they're bad, because they're all about, they're all about yourself. They're very selfish. They're very, you know, they're focusing inward. But that's the only way to start to heal. We have to focus inward first.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the inward is outward and outward is inward. Like, at some point it begins to flow into a continuous spiral cycle.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the thing, it's all about flow. We, we, we think, we think in a very, we think in very static terms, and we think of very, um, you know, zero-sum game. I get, you know, if I get, you lose, and vice versa. So therefore I have to get as much as I can. And we don't really understand this idea of energy flow. And I love what you talked about. It's, it's seeing what's going on in the world, bringing it in, integrating, and then, and then reflecting back, you know, contributing. So I, when you, you sent me some, some questions, some points to talk about, I'm really curious about one thing you talked about, you said you had a death initiation in India. So tell me about that.

Yeah, I was wondering if we'd get to that. Yeah, so when I was in India traveling, I was traveling for a long time in my early 20s. I spent a long time traveling around the world in my early 20s and studying with masters and teachers of all different sorts. And I ended up in southern India in a place called Tiruvannamalai. And there's Ramana Maharshi's ashram is there. And it's a little It's a little ashram and a little cave on this mountain called Arunachala. And he sat in there meditating and prayed. He's passed by that point. He's passed a long time ago. But people will walk the base of this mountain. It takes like, you know, I don't know, I can't remember, 4 or 6 hours, something like that. And I did that before dawn and I was in prayerfulness. And he has, I would say, a lot of death practice as part of you know, his practice was. And, you know, I'm very energy sensitive and very kind of mystical in my nature. And I had a really wonderful experience and process with that. And I went back to my guest house that night, and I went to sleep. And when I went to sleep, I was really tired. And as soon as my head hit the pillow, I hit my first dream. And it was so visceral and so real. And my dream states can be this way, but it was just a very, very physical, very real dream. Dream. And I was on a battlefield, and I was in a battle, and people were dying. And it was like, bloody, and I could smell blood, and I could smell entrails, and I could smell the soil, like it was very, very visceral, very physical. And I, and I felt myself get gutted and fall to the grass on my back and look up at the sky. And I could feel the moment that my spirit left my body. And I thought that I would wake up when I died. At some point, I realized that I was dreaming and I got lucid. And I was like, oh, what, you know, in the moment when I'm about to die, I'll wake up. But I didn't. I died. And I was still in the dream. And I could feel the moment of release. And it was the most joyous, liberating feeling. And I just had this experience of being like, oh yeah, remember, that was just the dream. Like, that was just the heaviness.

This.

Oh, and I'm here and I'm free. And then I woke up after I had that experience. And then I like turned to the bedside, realized where I was, had a sip of water, laid back down, went back to sleep. And then again, another dream, another life, same thing. It happened all night long. Death after death after death after death after death after death. And all of these different circumstances, and all these different experiences,. And I feel like I really got in my psyche and my system, the liberation of death for the person who's dying. And I also had the sense of what happens after we die. I don't know, like, how can I know? How can any of us really know? But I think it's very connected to what we think is gonna happen to us after we die, at least in the first period. And I think it's very culturally oriented. I think a lot of different things can happen to us. I think we have choicefulness there. So if we believe we come back into other lives, times we do. If we believe we take some time out, we do. If we believe we hang out with our loved ones for a period of time, we do. I think there's a lot of— we believe there's a bardo and a transition, and we're going to release all of these different parts of self and go into more pure energy state and then return in a different way, we do. I think that there's a lot of overlays and different choices that we have, just like we do in life. And I think after that experience, well, two things. In the morning, I had a dream where I was waiting for the death, I was suffering in a life, and I was waiting for the death and the death didn't come. And I woke up in the suffering. And I realized that I'd made peace with death, but I don't think I made peace with life. And that life has so much suffering in it. And the other thing is, is that for the period of time for several years after that, I was with a lot of people before and as they passed, and was able to hold that space. And because of that experience, in a really, I think, a pretty graceful way. Yeah.

Wow. So do you believe that that was— do you believe those were past lives that you were experiencing?

Yeah, that's how I would frame it.

Okay. Yeah, I did have a life between life regression. So I have some idea of what you're talking about. It wasn't that vivid. It wasn't, it wasn't in the dream state. But yeah, that's a really interesting experience that you had. And I mean, it's interesting. We also said about, you know, I think what happens after death is kind of like culturally, or what we expect. And I think I tend to agree It's interesting though, guys, studying near-death experiences a lot. I'm actually reading Dr. Bruce Greyson's book right now called After. What I find interesting, there's a lot of people that don't believe in the afterlife find themselves like, okay, wait, why am I here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, I think that there, I think, yeah, I will give the caveat that there is an afterlife. Yeah. How that afterlife is shaped can look differently. You know, there's a lot of cultures where they'll say like, like, um, we come back every second generation, and my great-grandmother will come back as my son. It's a very structured way, and I think they choose that. I think that, that there's choice in that, there's ceremony around that, and there's choicefulness. And I think in general that's probably what happens for them. I don't think that's what happens for everyone. I think that's what happens because culturally they have a broader context, and they're like, well, we have a structure for life and for death, and, and we carry it through, you know. So I think I think it's both.

And yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. And you're right. And I've, again, I've studied lots of different viewpoints of it. And there's a guy named Swedenborg, and he talks about the fact that you kind of get what you expect. And there are people that are in the afterlife that are still going to church and still worshiping and all this stuff like they did when they were here, because they won't let go of that. You know, it's like you're at a place now where you don't need to do that anymore. So I think we, we can hold on to that. And sometimes people will talk about like, like negative experiences in the afterlife and say, well, there, there's evidence that there's hell. And I'm like, that's because you put yourself there, because what you're expecting.

Yeah. And in that way, like, that's what some of the practices are of getting through the bardos, right? Like, there's, there's, there's karmic tendrils and threads, and there does want to be a greater liberation. I think that that's helpful in general, and to allow for that, so there can be a greater dissolution and then resolution into whatever, whatever is next.

Yeah. So one of the things you said earlier, I do want to come back to because I think it is one of those yes and they're both things you said, you know, we're gonna lose everything that we have here. And that can sound very nihilistic, right? It's like, it doesn't matter. We're gonna lose everything anyway. So how do you, how do you, how do you deal with that concept?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting, because there's so many different viewpoints or worldviews on this world in this world, right? So I think it can make us be the worst of ourselves, and it can make us be the best of ourselves, right? So it's like, if I know that everything I love, I'm going to lose, I can say it doesn't matter anyway. Or I can say I'm going to hold this and honor this as the most sacred, beautiful thing, and I'm going to bless it and love it, and I'm going to treat it in the way it deserves to be treated. And I believe all things are deserving of love, of care, connection. So, so again, I think there's, there's choicefulness there. But how do I deal with it? It doesn't feel nihilistic to me, it actually feels incredibly life-giving and informative. Tender.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a great point. Again, it's one of those things like, okay, there's, there's this fact, there's this objective fact. And then there's how do we, how do we view it? And I actually was talking to someone the other day, and they were saying kind of the same thing. It's like, if everything's gonna go away, some people say, well, then nothing matters. But it's like, but you still have this moment, you know, this moment does matter. This moment, you, you are breathing, you are tasting, you do have your loved ones.. So you can embrace this moment, or you can sit around and say, well, I'm going to not, not cherish this because I'm not going to have it in a billion years.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing we have is this present moment. And like, when you really get that, when you really get that, you realize that it's an ever-present moment, that it's more expansive than anything. It's not this pinpoint of just this minute in time. Time doesn't even exist, and it's certainly not linear. So this moment in time is vast and spacious, and there's more than enough room for everything. In all the multiverse to exist in the context of this present moment. And then all of a sudden, it's spacious, and it's endless. And then it becomes so sacred and holy, and I can do anything within it. So why would I choose to watch TV and eat junk food? Like, maybe for a minute, but it's like this, it's this endless gift that's here for us, that is never gone, even at the same time as everything in it is already gone. And so again, it's that juxtaposition. But yeah, I mean, we can do anything we want with it. But then again, it's like in the nihilistic view, then how do I feel in this moment? It's like, I feel shitty.

Exactly.

I feel shitty. And do I want to do that to myself and to the world? Or do I want pleasure? And where do I find the pleasure? By feeling the tender sacredness and being devoted to this moment.

So yeah, that was a great answer. And I wanted to get you to expand on that. Because again, people can sometimes grab on to like one certain thing, right? And grab on to the fact, oh, well, she believes that, you know, nothing matters, because it's all going to go away at any point. I know that's exactly— you were saying the exact opposite of that. But especially people that are, that are grieving You know, because we do feel like everything's over. It's like, okay, I've lost that person. I'm never going to see them again. The best days of my life are behind me. And all I want to do is go back to those days. Yeah. But I think, you know, that what I love about what you're saying is, you know, we do still have a sense of purpose. We just, we do still have a reason for being here. There's still going to be joy. No, even, even in this moment.

Yeah. And so again, it's that juxtaposition and, and starting really slowly, like in that level of grieving, the, the neurological thing that can be helpful in the smallest way possible. This isn't like bypass or get out of it or anything else. In the smallest way possible, what is the smallest inkling of pleasure you can find? Smallest inkling and let that be there too. So this simultaneousness in the nervous system is really, really helpful in building bridges and stabilizing. So even if you're in horrible grieving and pain, can you see the color green in the leaves? And can that just feel good a little bit at the same time as all of the pain? Can you feel the sunlight on your skin? Can that feel good? Can the smell of something— just like allowing yourself just the smallest little bit and allowing yourself to feel both at the same time can start to rewire the nervous system out of some of those places. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. That's— I call that a gratitude practice. And that's something I've been doing for the last, you know, several years. And, you know, Viktor Frankl, writing his book, you know, Man's Search for Meaning, I'm like, if that guy can find meaning in a concentration camp after his family has been killed, then we should all be able to find something. And you said, you said, start with that thing. Like, how does the sun feel on your skin? You know, do you have clean water? You know, do you have a— do you have a place to sleep? You know, just, just these small things that can help to rewire those neural pathways that always want to go to what we're missing.

Yeah, and, and that's a really human thing, right? So it's like, I think it's helpful to know this about our brain. Our brain is always going to go— our animal brain is wired to go to what's missing because, you know, I'm cold, I'm hungry, we go and take care of that, right? It's important to have that part of our brain. So it is a practice, always. It's going to be a practice. To go for what feels good. Our default is to go for what's wrong. So to cultivate the practice, and there's, I just wanted, there's one nuance too. There's like a gratitude practice of like thinking what I'm grateful for. And then there's a pleasure practice that's more sensate. So sometimes when you can't get to the gratitude practice, cause you're like, I don't feel grateful. Like I have clean water, but I don't care because I'm really suffering. You know, like there's, sometimes it can be harder to get the mind there. But then our, again, if we can work with our animal body, there'll be things that feel physically pleasurable. Just the feel of my weight against the cushion. Like, can I just feel that and feel the pleasure? Like from a somatic level, sometimes that can be the thing that can, can, can create a little pathway when the mind is like, yeah, I can't do it.

That's, that's a great place to start. For me, it's when I'm under the covers in my bed at night. Yeah. You know, there's just the feeling of being under, under the covers. So that's a great place to start.

Yeah, it's great to know what they are for us.

Yeah, yeah. There was another question, or another thing that you put that I really want to talk about, and it's how do we stay current in long-term relationships when we're growing rapidly in our spiritual path? I'm really intrigued to hear what you have to say about that.

It's a great, it's a great question. Um, so it's a long answer, you know, there's multiple layers to it. But really, it's about, okay, so I said it's about staying current and keeping current, and we can actually do that in the energy. So in the energy body in the relational field. We have these places in the fourth field layer, it's a level of our relational field. It is where our energy streams and connects. So even right now, when we're talking, even though we're far away, there's a way our energy bodies are interacting with each other. And the less I know someone, the more it's kind of like streaming and moving, like we're kind of like feeling each other a little bit. And, you know, and it's fluid, The longer I've been in relationship with someone, the more patterned it is. It becomes more cord-like. It's like we have these ways of functioning and relating for better or for worse, some are for better, some are for worse. There's going to be these ways we pattern in our connectivity. So getting current in the relationship and the energy is saying, can I feel who I actually am in this moment? And can I to some degree shed some of those cords and meet you again anew? So that's what's happening in the energy. And what that means in the, in the tangible relational pieces, can I get curious and not assume with this person that I've been with for 20 years or 30 years or whatever else, what's happening for you? Because we get really good at being like, I know when your head goes that way and your eye does that thing, that means this, this, this, and this. And sometimes we're right. And often we're not. And often we're not right because they've changed. And often they're not right we're not right because we had put an assumption on even the first time we interpreted that.

Yeah.

And we kept with that assumption all the way through. So getting current is this, is there's several different layers to the practice. There's one that's energetic and staying clear in the energetic hygiene. And then there's actual relational conversation pieces. How do I recognizing when I'm kind of not being curious, when I'm not open to hearing, finding pathways and ways of communicating, connecting to get current again and again. So that we can find ourselves anew and we can find each other anew and continue to grow and shift and evolve. And if we get really good at doing that, it allows not for our only for our own transformation, but also for the person we're in relationship with. And that's a real gift.

Wow, that was awesome.

I love that.

That was so, that was so good. You know, I've been with my wife for 35 years.

Wow.

We'll be married 30, 32 years this fall. Um, and we do, we get, we get in these patterns and we think we know the other person and we, we make the assumptions. And you said, you said we get hardwired, right?

Yeah.

And then we don't, we don't allow the other person to even change. Like, we could be wrong from the beginning, or maybe, maybe they've changed. And hopefully we all change and grow, you know, over time. Um, so I think that's a really important important practice you talked about is like looking at that person, you know, anew and not assuming so much.

Yeah, and really, you know, getting genuinely curious and following our genuine curiosity. Like, what is that for you that your worldview is different than mine? That if there is an assumption, that's the underlying assumption. I have no idea what it feels like to be you, even if I've been with you for 35 years, day in and day out. I still don't know what it's like to be you. So tell me.

Yeah, especially when we go through these events that we're talking about, whether it could be a death event or loss of a job or whatever, you know, these things that throw us, and the things that often cause changes. And I see this so often with people. Like, let's say you're, you're a couple, and you're, you both have the same faith, you're both very religious people and everything. And then there's an unexpected death in your family. One person is going to handle it completely different from the way the other person handles it. And then we start making assumptions about that person's— about their faith or about whether they love that person. And it can cause real conflict.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like if this then that thinking. We talk about this in the mental field, like, like we all have this. It's part of the way our minds are shaped. But if this then that thinking— if I do this, it means this. So if you do this, it means this. But you have a different if this then that thinking, right? So, you know, if you put trash in the recycling, it means you don't believe in value, you know, all these And the other person's like, it doesn't mean that to me. It literally means I didn't know that. You know? And so then there's just a whole different— this is just a really mundane, silly example. But yeah, those big events that you're talking about, you know, loss, loss of loved ones, change of job, change of career. They don't only throw us, they change us. They transform us, right? It changes my values, my worldview. So we have to get current again. Like I'm a different person because I had this experience that reshaped me. It recalibrated me. So I'm not the same person that I was before. So it's a whole new relationship. And that's true for the difficult experiences in life. It's also true for the wonderful experiences in life, 'cause we're always changing. And yeah, and just being aware of that and being willing to, you know, a 35-year relationship is not being with the same person for 35 years. It's being with, I don't know, 35 different people.

Yeah. No, it's a good point. You talked about the Mandala. Mundane example, but that's really important. My wife and I used to teach like premarital, and I would tell people, when you get married, there's gonna be little things— like the way my wife squeezed the toothpaste tube drove me crazy, right? And we tell ourselves a story. It's like, if she cared about me, if she really loved me, she wouldn't squeeze the tube that way.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's really— I love that, that, you know, that staying fresh and staying current and staying curious and asking people, you know, we don't do that. We assume, you know, What did you, what did you mean by that? What does that mean to you?

And the truth is there's so much intimacy there, which I think most of us long for. And not only is there intimacy there, sometimes when we get that question, we learn more about ourselves.

Yeah, right.

So it's kind of like, oh, there was an assumption in me of doing something this way. Oh, look, I didn't realize that about myself. There's so much growth. There's just so much that can come from that. That type of curiosity.

And people do like being asked how they feel, you know, because we don't get that question very often. And as you said, a lot of times we don't even know. So we have to like take inventory. It's like, well, how do I feel? You know, why did I do that? Why is that? And then, you know, why is this thing important to you is also really interesting, because we might say, well, that's not important to me. But it could be very, very important to someone else.

Yeah. And why is it? And why isn't it important? Yeah, absolutely. And so all of these things, it's like, this is the awakening journey. And we actually don't do it in isolation. We actually do it in connection and relationship. If we want to awaken in the world and in relationship with each other, if we want cultural change, if we want these things to occur, it has to happen in the context of relative relationship with the world around us, right? So it's not really something we can do in isolation. So it becomes really important to get current in relationships of all sorts.

Yeah, I think that's a very, a very important part of being human that I think we miss, that we, we actually need each other to grow.

Other to grow. There is no coming to power or to enlightenment in isolation completely. We need to turn in, we need to know ourselves in some way, but we have to turn back out and turn back in and turn out. There's this weaving that has to occur, right? This flow.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Katanjali, we're coming to the end of our time. I want you to tell people how they can reach you, what you have to offer to people.

Yeah, so, um, centaurasystem.com. It'll probably be in the show notes. Syntarasystem.com. And we'll, we'll give you a link that has direction to a meditation, a free meditation that you can do that's kind of some of this, some of this practice for anybody who wants to.

Awesome.

And yeah, we have a couple times a year, we offer a 6-week online course that's called Evolutionary Leap. And we kind of lay out a lot of the initial parts, the foundations of energy work and practices, and you get a lot of things you can work with and tools and skills that you can play with. Um, and we have an online membership that's ongoing. Um, and we have a really intensive 2-year training that's in person that we meet 4 times a year for 4 days at a time.

Oh wow.

And then we have retreats. It's all on the website. But yeah, yeah.

Well, it's been really good getting to, to know you, getting to meet you. Um, I thank you for sharing this with, for, with the listeners. I think this is going to be very, very helpful for people to to get a reset to understand, you know, where we are in the world. So thanks for being here.

Thank you so much for inviting me. It's lovely to feel your heart. Thank you for all that you're doing.

All right, have a great day.

Yeah, you too. Bye.

Thanks for listening to Grief to Growth. Brian hopes that you find this episode helpful and will come back for future episodes. Brian's bestselling book, Grief to Growth: Planted, Not Buried, is a great resource for anyone who is coping with grief, or know someone who is. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support it, there are 3 things you can do to help. The first is to share the podcast with someone that you think it will help. The second is to go to iTunes, rate and review the episode. The third way you can support the podcast is by becoming a patron. Head over to www.patreon.com/grief2growth Growth. That's patreon.com/grief, the number 2, growth, and sign up to make a small monthly donation. Patrons get access to exclusive bonus content and knowledge that you are helping to spread the message of grief to growth. For more about Brian and grief to growth, visit www.grieftogrowth.com.

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