Transforming Grief Into Healing: Stories from Shining Light Parents EP 405

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hi there, and welcome to Grief 2 Growth, where we explore life's most profound questions and navigate through life's toughest challenges. I'm Brian D Smith, and whether this is your first time listening or whether you're a regular, thank you for joining us on this journey to uncover who we are, why we're here, and what lies beyond this life. Today, I'm honored to have with me Dolores Cruz and Allison Allison. They are two deeply inspiring voices from the organization Helping Parents Heal. And if you listen to the program for any amount of time, you know, Helping Parents Heal is near and dear to my heart. I've been part of the organization for about 8 years myself. We are fellow Shining Light Parents, and we'll talk about what that is. But as parents, we've each experienced the unimaginable pain of losing a child. Dolores and Alice have embarked on a path that's transformed their grief into a powerful source of healing for others. Together, they've contributed to the new book, Shining Light Parents Speak, and that book gathers the stories, insights, and wisdom of parents who, like them, have experienced the loss of a child and emerged with renewed purpose and connection. So in this conversation, Dolores and Allison will share about their own journeys through loss, the signs and spiritual connections they've encountered along the way, and how they found meaning in their children's lives and their legacies. We'll also dive into some of the central messages from Shining Light Parents Speak, we'll explore how its stories offer hope and guidance not only to grieving parents, but to anyone seeking peace and resilience in the face of loss. So stay with us as we explore these stories of love, resilience, and transformation. And if you'd like to join the conversation afterwards, remember, you can connect with our community at grieftogrowth.com/community. If you're listening on YouTube, make sure you subscribe and like so you get all of the notifications. And with that, I want to welcome Allison and Dolores.

Thanks, Brian. Thanks so much. It's wonderful to see you and be on your, your podcast. It's a great show. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you so much.

Yeah.

It's great to have you both here. Dolores has been on before. So if you haven't seen or listened to that episode, make sure you check it out. But what I'd like to do is start off with— I was telling them before we get started, we always like to honor our children, our children, are the ones that inspire us, our children. They still live through us and with us. So let's start in alphabetical order. So we'll start with Allison. I was at the first, right? Allison, Allison. So Allison, tell us about what brought you to Pelping Parents Heal.

So my son Davey transitioned in 2016 in an automobile accident, a single automobile accident. And before— what was interesting, Brian, before he transitioned, in the days leading up, um, he started talking. It was really interesting. He started talking about God. And, you know, he grew up— we went to Catholic masses, and— but he wasn't very religious. And he did Young Life in, like, high school, but again, not really talking about God. And it was the weekend before I was away, and my husband David came home, and he said, Dad, I know God exists. Well, my husband is kind of like What is going on here? Did you use some drugs? What's going on? You know, what, what is all this? And Davey's just like, look, I just know. And life's about— this is what life's about. You know, it's about loving people and being kind. And he just was going on and on. And David was having a hard time with it. He's a very, I guess, you know, left-brain guy, and he was having a hard time. So on the morning of Davey's accident, he— Davey called me. Because I wanted to speak to him about it. And I said, hey, Davey, your dad's having a hard time with this. He goes, but Mom, I just got to tell you, I know God exists. And I'm like, I cannot wait to talk to you about this. He was coming to the beach the next week, and I was like, we're going to sit down, have this great conversation. And I said, but you're freaking him out, can you just tone it down a little? And he said, um, sure, Mom, but you never have to worry about me. And I was like, okay, okay. And he goes, I'll always be with you. And he, he, he said to me, Mom, you're my soulmate, you just get me. And I was like, soulmate. You know, in my head I'm thinking, I've never heard that before, um, except for like in a love relationship. And he told me all these beautiful things, and then we hung up, and he had his accident later in that afternoon. And so it sort of— when it all happened, I was like, he was telling me something. He was telling me, I'll never leave you. He was telling me I'm his soulmate. And it sent me on this path, and all of us on this path, because he talked to his sisters, he talked to his dad. It was like he was on this mission to talk to everybody. And so I needed to— I knew he was not gone. I just knew it. And so I needed to find a place that I could talk about that. And Helping Parents Heal was— is this beautiful organization of people that feel the same way I do, that they're not gone. And we can talk about that.

Wow.

How old was he again?

24.

24. And so you said he hadn't spoken like that before.

No, no, he was this kind, gentle soul, right? He's just between his two sisters. He was the— we call him the equal sign. He would, you know, if they were fighting, he would make them laugh and goof off. He was just easy and kind. And so, yeah, no, it was so out of left field.

Yeah, yeah. And Dolores, tell us about, about your son.

Yes, Eric is the youngest of my four children. He was 24 years old when he also had a car accident, which, by the way, we'll talk more later about the interesting coincidence, so to speak, synchronicity going on there. He was just, you know, and I think we can say this about so many of our children, just so kind and compassionate. And that's what people talked about immediately after his transition. Uh, the only sign or indication I got, which I had no idea at the moment but totally, uh, connected with it in the moments after hearing, uh, when they came to my door to tell him that he had been in a car accident and passed, was that that morning when he left work— he was still living at home, he had this brand new job he was so excited about, it was like a good job with good money— And he, as is our custom, he goes out the door. I say goodbye, give him a kiss, walks out, you know, and then goes down the driveway and leaves. This day he said goodbye, took those two steps down, started to walk, and then he turned around, he looked at me, and he said goodbye again, which is no big deal, right?

It's—

he just said goodbye again. He had never done that before, and I noticed it, and I just thought, I wonder why he looked back and said it again. So tiny. And yet, when I was told that he had passed away, I thought of it immediately. And his soul knew and was letting me know goodbye. It was, as you know, all know very well how awful and devastating that news is. And having no idea what to do with yourself and how to take another step or another breath? And what's the next day going to be like? It was really rough. I, like Allison, knew he existed, knew he was around. I started talking to him immediately. I knew he could hear me. I was crying out to him that I— what happened? I need a hug. I need you here. And that went on. And a really interesting thing did happen about 10 days later when I went to the store and some young people were out in front taking donations for a, an ed— a cause for education against, you know, drug resistance education that I was familiar with. And I told myself, I'm gonna go make a donation. And when I came out and went up to this young man who was the same height as Eric and age and build, and nice, friendly personality. I talked to him a little bit, wrote him a check, and when he handed me the receipt, he said, "How about a hug?" And what I knew in that moment— nobody says that outside, you know, when you're taking donations. Who's ever said that? I said, "Of course, I'll always take a hug." Gave him a hug, felt like I was hugging my son. And walked away just blown away, knowing that was him and thanking him and just knowing he was— again, it was proof that he was there. And, um, I continued just reading whatever I could. I know we've all done the same thing, any— anything related to afterlife and spirituality and near-death experiences and all that. The way I found helping parents heal which was very interesting, is that I got this friend request from someone I didn't recognize. So I didn't respond because I don't. Then I got a message saying, I'm your cousin Susie's cousin on the other side, who I'd never met. But I then understood how we were connected. She said, I need to tell you about this organization, because I heard about your son. And my son also made his transition a year ago. So someone who I had no idea but reached out told me— again, this is our language— that our sons said, hey, gotta let her know, you know. Her son told my son, who, uh, made sure that, uh, I— that that connection was made. And that is how I found Helping Parents Heal. Again, as Allison said, amazing to be able to talk like this. I cannot talk this way to most people. And it's so wonderful to know that, you know, Brian and Allison and so many hundreds of thousands of others actually, where we can have this conversation. It's wonderful.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, as you say that, I— it's something I guess I've kind of started taking for granted, because I've been part of the Helping Parents Heal family for, I guess, about 8 years now. And we've gotten together, we've had, what, 3 conferences. And we talk to each other regularly through Zoom meetings and stuff. So We talk this way amongst ourselves, and I frankly don't care what other people think. So I talk this way among other people too, but I know people probably think I'm crazy.

Yeah.

Oh, well, yeah, it's true. They probably do. And there might be a couple who kind of start to resonate a little bit, but they've never really had that conversation. It's nice. It's good. I think it's important for us to start having that conversation and let people become more comfortable with it, more aware of it.

Yeah, Brian, I would say one of the things I didn't want to stop talking about Davey. I told everybody I could. When I got a sign, I would tell everybody. And just after a while, they would call me and go, hey, I got a sign too. I saw this. I think it's Davey. And they, they shared and they felt better, especially his friends. It was like a way for them to heal too. It wasn't so sad. They were like, oh, I saw this rainbow and I know it was him, or I got— they could join in with it. And my daughters, we had a, we made a WhatsApp and we put all our, what we see, you know, I found this, I saw this, and we share it with each other.

Yeah, it's, it's really, it's great. Because, like, after I came back from, or started, you know, working with people and helping parents heal and stuff, and probably after the conference, not before the first conference, but I talked to my friends about signs and things like that. And then I found out that, like, most of them had had signs.. But these are people I'd known for literally over 20 years. And nobody ever brought it up. Has that been your experience? I see you guys both nodding your heads.

Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, it's true that some people, those people will probably let you know, oh, really? That, that happened to you? You know, actually, this happened to me too. And that is a really wonderful conversation to be able to have. Yep. So it— more people have had these experiences than maybe want to admit it or talk about it.

And you know what's great? We know our kids are here. We know our loved ones are not gone. We've learned this through our experience, which was a horrible experience to go through. But I also think that's the gift in it because I see some people and they're living this life and I called it the treadmill of life. You know, you're just, oh, I go to school and then I get a job and then I have a family and I did it.

I got—

we got thrown off that treadmill. And we had to find out there's more to life than that. And I'm so glad I've learned that there's more to life.

Yeah, well, that's, that's the silver lining that we, that we talked about helping parents heal, which I know for people that may be early on in their grief, you know, we don't want to hear about that. But for us who have been, been walking this road for a while, we do realize that there's some growth that comes from it. I always hesitate to say, you know, positive or negative or whatever, but it's— there's, there's something that, that transforms within us, that changes everything about the way that we live our lives. So you both indicate you had, like, little signs, you know, well, Allison's maybe a little bit bigger, but Dolores, you know, that little sign, just that, just that turn and saying goodbye the second time. And with me, we had— I didn't even know about it, though, because Shayna passed on June 24th, so Mother's Day, so probably 6 weeks before. She was with her sister and some cousins at my brother's house, and they were outside playing. Shayna was 15 and Kayla was 18. And Shayna, just out of the blue, said, when I die, I want to be cremated and have my ashes buried under a tree. Now, I didn't know this. And so, you know, fast forward 6 weeks later, she passes away, and we're deciding what to do with her body. And my wife and I said we think we want to have her body cremated. But we need to get— run this by Kayla and see what she thinks. And Kayla goes, yeah, that's what she wanted. And we said, well, what do you mean? And she said, she tells us a story. And we're like, well, were you talking about this? She goes, no, we— Shayna just said it out of the blue. So these are these— and as you guys are both telling your stories, I'm getting goosebumps again. You know, I'm getting goosebumps because we do get these You know, life is not as cut and dried or black and white as we think it is. There's this magical stuff going on underneath the surface if we take a look at it.

Oh, absolutely. It is there. There are people who just only want to see, as we all know, just this, what's right here in front of us, what we can taste and touch and see and feel and all of that. But we all have that extra sense, that sixth sense, if you want to call it that. That goes beyond, um, some people are open to it, some people allow it in, others don't. Or if it does come in, they'll just say, discount it and say, that was strange, that was weird, what was that? Uh, and not think about it again. But yeah, it is there. And what we're learning to do in this organization, Helping Parents Heal, is notice to see and trust, trust that that is our child, any other loved ones maybe that have passed as well. And it's all around in so many ways.

Yeah. So I'd like to ask each of you that, what were your beliefs and about the afterlife before you, before your children transitioned? It's not something a lot of us think a lot about. So did you have any beliefs and what were they?

I'll go first. I grew up going to Catholic Church. I didn't ever resonate with the message. You know, I was brought to the church, and but I liked the music. And I liked the church. That really got to me, you know, the music would just fill my heart. And so I kind of did that with my kids, because I wanted them to have something. But I know I was searching for something more. So I started when they were a little bit older. I started going to other churches. I feel like I was, like, seeking, and I would do it on my own and then bring them. But then they would be like, what are you doing, Mom? So I was searching. And so I think this was part of my journey. I had listened to people like Abraham Hicks, which I know a lot of people would say, wow, what is that? But you know what I knew about that? I didn't understand channeling. I didn't understand when she said nonphysical. I was like, I don't know. But I loved the loving message. And I was a worrier. I was worrying about my kids. I sometimes wonder about this, like, did part of me know something was coming? And I wanted something to teach me not to worry. And her message was, focus on what you want for your kids, not what you don't. So I was there, Brian. That was what was happening to me. So when this happened, I was like, whoa, this, this is all playing out, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. How about you, Dolores?

I also was raised Catholic. I, I did— I went to Catholic schools as well, uh, from first grade through high school. I had a great experience. I was into it. I always, uh, believed that there was more and always prayed, and my prayer changed, and it became not just, you know, formal prayers, but conversation. I had all that. I remember even within that year previous to Eric's accident, which by the way was 2017, that I just felt joy. I would sit and look at the trees and the birds, and I just felt all that. And then when this happened, everything exploded, and I was angry. I thought I was a good person and that this— why, you know, wasn't supposed to happen. That was one of the— my mantras in the beginning: this was not supposed to happen. I— so, and I, in my prayers, I, I was angry at God and saying, you better effing explain to me what's going on here. I want to know why. And the interesting— and that's what I said every night. I was no longer sweet. I was direct about that. As time went by, the books came to me, and I began to understand more and more. This idea I had of God in a box was just expanding and expanding and still isn't— hasn't stopped. And so now I— there's just the idea of heaven. I knew there was, but now hearing near-death experiencers and other people with maybe mediums or whoever that have more to say about that. It's been so comforting and helpful to know more details. The other thing, by the way, is heaven. I used to think was somewhere far away, you know, was tucked away, and that's where everybody went, you know, and then one day you'd go there and, oh no, it's here. It's right here. And so that's something else I've learned. And that's why they are here. And God is not a man in the sky, you know, judging you. That it's the most— is the Creator. God is the Creator, the source of all love, not male or female, this whole energy. So there's just so much, and it's continuing. And I think it's just awesome. I'm glad to know what I know now.

Yeah, you said something, I think a couple of things I think I can really resonate with, you know, this idea of God as being a man in the sky, which I think a lot of people, let's, I'm gonna say, outgrow, right, at some point. And then, then they say, well, there's, there's, then there's no creator, there's no intelligence, it's just all, it's all random, because they see what they were taught in Sunday school, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. And, and even if you believe, as we were taught, that there's a heaven, it's a long way away, right? It's, it's, it's out of touch, it's out of sight, it's out of reach, and we'll get there one day. Um, but, uh, did either one of you— well, you said Dolores, you immediately started communicating with Eric. How about you, Alison?

Oh yeah, immediately. And it was interesting, um, I, I was, and I didn't know, but I didn't trust it right away, right? I was like, I know I'm doing this and I'm hearing him. I'm like, I'm still your mom, I'm still your mom. And I had him hear, I'm still— you're still my mom. Yeah, you're still my mom, you know. Um, but it was an Abraham Hicks— I put in Abraham Hicks loss of child, like day 3. And she, she says, I can make you feel better right now. And I'm like, and she said, your child's not gone. And I go, I know it. You know, I was like, I know, that's what I feel. And so then it was just, I had to learn about the afterlife. I had to know where he was. I had to, I feel like I got my PhD and still getting it in the afterlife. And it You know, I've had amazing experiences where you cannot explain, you can't explain what happened, except that I'm connected to them.

Yeah. Let's talk about some of the signs you guys have gotten from your kids. Give me one or two of your favorites.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

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Well, by the way, I want to— Allison had a beautiful story of a connection with David at a wedding. And When we discussed this before, I hadn't brought up that. Yeah, and I'd look— that's— this is the one I'd like to start with, and then I have one other really cool one. But also at a wedding, first time you go. This was about a year and a half my daughter was in, a friend's wedding. And there I am thinking, oh, how am I going to get through this knowing I will never go to my son's wedding? You know, we get there, it's lovely, it's outdoors, everything's fine. And just like Allison told in her story, As soon as the mom comes down with her son, ah, I just— the tear— I just stood there, you know. I wasn't noisy or anything, but oh my gosh, the tears were just pouring down my cheeks. And in that moment, for me, in my third eye was Eric. He was there in a dark suit, a suit with a dark blue shirt and a tie, and he was just there for me. And this went on for about 15 minutes. I assumed I was fine crying because everyone would go, oh, it's a wedding, you know, people cry, right? So I didn't think anyone was gonna wonder, but I wasn't leaving yet. I sat through the little— the ceremony, and then of course after that I had to go to the restroom and clean my face and everything and just feel better a little bit. But he was there, and he was letting me know he was right there. It was clear as day. It was amazing. Um, and the other thing I would love to share, um, uh, when I went to Prague with my husband and two friends, couple, a couple, and I knew Erik had spent time during his study abroad. He had gone to Madrid, but he then backpacked around you know, different cities in Europe. So we went to Prague, and I'm like, oh, I know you were here, Eric, this is cool. Oh yeah, and we went to the castle, and in the castle is this very old church. I think it's from the 1300s or 1400s, the Saint Vitus, I believe. I could be wrong. But anyway, you got to climb this spiral staircase of about 200 steps, maybe. No, maybe it was more, 250 or something, but it was really quite a trek up. I'm— we're going up this You know, I'm in front and, uh, my husband and then my two friends behind, and we're kind of laughing, and because we're huffing and puffing, and it's like, oh, the old people got to get up there. I look back and I'm laughing, and right between my husband and my friend Linda is Eric. And he was a little holographic, a little bit of translucent, slightly, but not totally solid, obviously. But he— I see what he was wearing, his jeans, his shirt, his t-shirt, his, you know, kind of a jacket, army color jacket. And he's just kind of like, he's walking up with us. We get to the top. And these were friends I could tell that to. I said, Eric was walking up there with us. They loved it. They were all like, wow, that's amazing. So in that case, I was able to just see him for a few seconds, I guess.

Wow.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, you're with us. Great.

Yeah. How about you, Alison?

So the story Dolores was talking to was, I've had so many, but this one was the one where I knew I'm talk, I'm connecting with Davey. So, um, right after Davey transitioned, we had to go to a wedding a couple months after. And I was like, all right, I can do this cuz my girls are in the wedding and they're like, we're not gone. You know, you still gotta be there for us. So, um, I go to this wedding and I'm doing great and then the mother-son dance happens. I wasn't even thinking this, and all I thought was, I will never have that mother-son dance. So I just got up, like the Lord said, and I went to the bathroom and just did the wave of prayer. You know how it comes. You just, you don't even expect it, right? You'll be in the grocery store and it'll just happen to you. But it happened. Um, and then the weddings after that, my family would put like a baby in my arms during that time or do something, right? Well, my nephew, who was Davey's counterpart, my sister's son, they were best buddies, was getting married. And I went into meditation a couple weeks before the wedding. And I, because I do that with Davey, I will sit in meditation and I'll talk to him. And I said, I don't want to be sad at this wedding. I wanted, I wanted that dance with you. And he's like, Mom, I want you to close your eyes. I don't want you to picture us dancing. So I picture that. But then he did something and he showed me I'm at the wedding. Billy's wedding with my sister, and Billy and my sister are dancing, and my sister stops halfway through and comes and gets me and brings me on the dance floor dancing with Billy. And then it turns into Davey and I dancing, and I'm like, okay, I got my dance. That was beautiful. Yeah, I'm feeling good. I get to the wedding, and at the time's coming where my sister's going to dance with Billy, and my mom comes and gets me, and she's kind of holding me. And they're out there dancing. And halfway through, my sister comes and gets me and brings me out to Billy. And I'm like, what? This is actually happening? And I'm dancing with Billy, and I transform, and I'm dancing with Davey. And my mind is exploding because I'm like, I saw this. He told me this would happen. How is this happening? You know? So the next day, I say to my sister, you're not going to believe this. But I knew this was going to happen ahead of time. Davey told me. And she goes, you're not going to believe this. But I was out on a walk, and I— Davey came to me and said, you have to do this. And Billy called me and said, Mama, I got this message from Davey. We have to do this. And they were the only two that knew. And they were afraid to do it because they said that might— they might look like they're grandstanding or doing some, you know, something that would upset my family. And they were like, we just knew we had to do it. So I knew in that moment, okay, I'm communicating with them. Wow.

Wow.

And anyone can do this, Brian. This is what I say. I don't feel like I have any special gifts. I never have. And I think that was maybe one of my challenges I feel now in this lifetime is to not have these instant gifts, but have to trust, trust in what I think. So I get quiet. I picture him coming and sitting, talking to me. It's— and my body, you know what, Brian? My body doesn't know the difference that he's not sitting right there and not physically with me. My body calms down.

It gets—

ah, feels so good. And so I got used to that because I do that all the time. I talk to him on walks. I talk to him when I'm driving. I've learned— and my mantra I said every day was, I want to feel you so spiritually I don't miss you so badly physically. And that's what I've done. My body now just is used to him being around. Yeah, anybody can do that. Anybody can.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting when we talk about special abilities, and I'm, I'm a very rational left-brained person, engineer. And I tell people I don't have intuition, you know, but I realized that we all do. And we get things different ways. And sometimes people, you know, other people will say things in a certain way that sounds so certain. And I was— I remember when I was a little kid in church, people would say, God told me this, or God told me that. And I would say, God's not talking to me. What's going on? Why is God talking to all these people, but he doesn't talk to me? So I'm always— I'm also the person who's always asking questions. So I'm like, I would go to people like, well, what do you mean God told you? Did you— was it like a voice in your ear? Was it a burning bush like Moses got? I mean, how did God tell you this? Oh, no, it's just kind of a, you know, second knowing. It's a thing that, you know, it's internal voice, whatever. I'm like, oh, well, I got that. So sometimes it's, we have to trust, you know, different ways. And it's interesting, because Dolores said, you know, that she saw Eric. And so when I would, I would compare to other people, I'm like, well, I've never seen Shana, or I've never heard Shana. And people say, I felt them touch me. I've never had that experience. So we'll have different experiences.

Yeah.

So when it— so for people that are listening, and I'm going to talk about the early stages of grief, because for a lot of times people are listening to us, and they're like, they have no idea what I'm going through. Look, look, they're just, they're doing great. They're fine. They're, you know, talk about what it's like in those early stages, because people think they're stuck, and they think they're going to be there forever.

Well, I'll be glad to, yeah, share that. Uh, I felt like I was in a deep, dark hole, an abyss. There was no light. I had no idea how I could get out of it. I didn't think I could ever see light again. I didn't think— certainly didn't think I would ever feel joy again. I did not know how I could live. How, how could I keep living a life without my son. And little by little, again, you know, there was a lot of love and support around. I have a feeling you had that same experience from family and friends. And but again, by the readings that I did, it just started to propel me along. And I do want to mention one thing. I know that people I've heard say that they, even though that they don't want to laugh or smile because it would be disrespectful. Now, even though I didn't know how I could ever live again, I just, I didn't, it's not that I didn't think it would happen, I just didn't know how. So it's not like if it were to happen, I was going to push it away. When it started happening, when the days came, and I did feel like I could laugh, and I did feel I could smile, when I finally was able to look at photos again of him, which for me, it was, it wasn't that long, maybe like 2 months, and then I could start to look or hear music because he was a musician. And it was just too painful. I let it in. I didn't want to not, and I knew that it, that was what he wanted. And I allowed it, I just allowed the light in. And little by little. And then the day came where I said, you know what? I think I can feel joy again. I couldn't believe that was possible, but it was something that I allowed.

Yeah.

Yeah. I was in that dark hole too, Dolores. I think we all probably felt like it was just black. And I— you're like, how am I going to get out of this? But it was my faith, I have to say. And this is what I always wanted for my children, is to have a little bit of that faith. And it was that faith that got me out. Like, you're not alone. I did feel God's hand, whatever, love, the God, the hand of love, you know, that was like, just keep at it, don't give up. And it was, I knew I had to take care of myself. I knew maybe I can't handle this mentally right now, but I gotta walk. I gotta keep walking. I gotta keep eating. And so I kind of did that on autopilot. Like, I gotta take care of this physical body because grief is horrible on your body.. And I sometimes, I don't know, this is kind of weird. I think this now, maybe grief is so horrible because your soul knows they're not gone. And your soul's like, wait a minute, what are you doing this for? They're not gone. You know, but grief feels horrible. And I knew I just had to take care of myself and slowly reading about other parents. That's why this book is so important, Brian D Smith. This is what I would say. I couldn't wait to find books of parents who believed their kids were still with them. I wanted to find out what they did. I, I, I read your book. I read so many books about parents who found their way. And here's a book with 130 parents telling you they're not gone and their messages and their signs. So it's kind— it's an awesome book. I would have loved this then. So I would suggest it for all new parents in this process, because when you— once you see there's other parents and there's hope, you're like, okay. I mean, I would say the first year for the people listening is the toughest. It's your first Christmas. It's your first Mother's Day. It's your first birthday. But this is what I would suggest. On those days, like your child's birthday, I went out and did an act of kindness with Davey. I was like, Davey loved IHOP. So we, I put like he was going with me and I went and bought somebody's meal. I didn't, you know, I just went, I went to the front and I said, look, can I teach you a manner? Talk to your manager. Here's money. Please buy somebody's meal. And then I left.. And I looked and I was like, Davy, that felt good. That felt good. So I try and do like acts of kindness, like I'm doing it with him. Like do something that'll make you feel like you're connected to your child, uplifting with your child. And that helps.

Yeah.

Um, we asked people, this was the other thing we did. We asked people not to send flowers, not to bring food, but do acts of kindness and post them on Facebook. And every day I woke up and I wrote, I read the most beautiful messages from people doing acts of kindness in Davey's name. And it even, for 2 years, this little 8th grade class, this teacher took her 8th grade class and did acts of kindness with them for Davey.

Oh wow.

And these little kids wrote me beautiful letters and they told me what they did and I was blown away and it lifted my soul. So every day I felt like Davey was still there. And I slowly came out and came out and kept, you know, it was like, I could see the light. I think everybody should do this. I think doing acts of kindness instead of flowers is so much better.

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard that before. But I do. I do love that idea. And I think it's really important. And I appreciate you guys being frank about sharing that. Because, you know, a lot of times we try to put on a brave face, and people don't, they don't see what's happening when we're, when we're home alone. And they don't, of course, know the thoughts in our heads. And that feeling of like, I don't want to be here anymore, I think is very, very common for parents, especially of young children. And 24 is relatively young. It's like, you know, you want to be with your kid, you want to, you want to know they're okay. And I think I always say for mothers, especially because they're part of your body, but for fathers too, because as a father, when you especially have daughters, it's your job to protect them. And so when you're not there to protect them, you know, you're like, okay, I gotta get there. I gotta be where they are. So it's, it's important for people to understand that feeling is really normal, because people think they're going crazy. They think maybe they've become— suicidal is different, because suicidal is when you're actually making plans to do this. I don't know, for me, it was never planned. It was just like, I don't want to be here. I don't care. You know, I don't, I don't care anymore. So I think it's important to put that out there for people to understand what you're going through, what you're feeling is normal. And that first year— go ahead.

I did. I remember saying that in my head, but I heard Davey say, Mom, what about the girls? What about Dad? Yeah, I'll be here. I'll always be here. And I was just like, you're right. You know, I—

right, right. Yeah, that's, that is a real good point. Dolores, how about you? Because for me, I had the first thing I had to do was live for my, my wife and my other daughter. I didn't care about me, but it's like, okay, I guess I have to stay here because they're gonna be very upset if I go.

Yeah, same, same here with what you're saying. I, if something had happened to me, that would have been fine with me. If I had, you know, whatever, I wasn't going to make anything happen. I wasn't going to end my life.. But I did know that they wouldn't want that to happen. So I knew that intellectually, even though for many months I still said, well, yeah, but if something happens to me, that's fine.

Yeah.

But now I, I don't want— I wanna stay. I wanna be here. I want to be with my 3 surviving children and my husband. I now have a granddaughter. I do wanna be here. Uh, And what helps is I have this other relationship now with Eric, something that my therapist had brought up early on. I had an awesome grief therapist for about a year and a half, and she had told me in the beginning, well, you will have developed a new relationship with Eric. At the beginning, I didn't know what she was talking about. I totally understand it. Yes, Eric is here. He is— he sees everything that happened. I know people say that it's awful that they've missed things. They haven't missed them, right? We miss seeing their reaction. We missing their interaction. We don't get to see that. I would love to see that, but no, they, they're with us, and he's here. So yeah, it's total shift. It does shift.

And I would say, Brian D Smith— oh, sorry.

No, go ahead, please.

Um, one of the things Davey had said to me was, you're my soulmate. So that was something too. I was like, what? What did he mean by that? And then when I read Robert Schwartz— am I saying it right? Uh, Soul Plan book, I was like, that's what he was talking about. That we— because when I first thought about it, I thought, God's not mad at me. I didn't do anything wrong. Like Dolores, I, I've been a good person. Why, why does this happen to me? Right? I didn't think, well, why do some kids live and some kids don't? I mean, it's just haphazard, right? And then I thought, the soul plan, that Davey and I planned this. I thought at first, no way would I have planned this horrible thing. It is too painful. There's no way. And then I sat with it and I thought, That is the only explanation. That is the only explanation. And you know what? I'm not going anywhere. I am going to get this right so I never have to do this again.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. Because I remember being at the first Helping Parents Heal conference, and to a person, we're all like, we're not coming back, we're not coming back. And I thought about, you know, we have these things we do in life. And we'd say, I've heard a lot of times women have their first child, they're like, I'm never doing that again. It was too painful. But then You know, a few months later, a couple years later, like, yeah, I'll do it again. So I, I, I try not to say never that I would, but, um, I don't want to— well, I want to make my daughter proud. I think you guys probably feel the same way too. I, I, Shayna, I know she would be like, you got to stay there, you got to do the work. Um, and she'd be very— she's going to be on me if I don't, because I know I'm going to face her one day. I'm not worried about being judged by God. I'm worried about listening to Shayna.

Yeah, yeah. I have, again, along this whole new journey, spiritual, of course. I— it's more and more spiritual to me. And by the way, when I, when I said those prayers were so hard to God, eventually they just became, thank you so much for all of this, for, for every day, for the things, the beauty and all of that. But I know I'm here for a reason. Now I get that. And boy, do I want to make sure I do whatever. And whether or not I understand that reason, that's okay. I don't have to know exactly what it is. I trust I'll be led. I trust that things will unfold as they should. But I really hope that I am doing everything I can here that I'm supposed to do. So I don't want to go anywhere. Yeah.

I just interviewed someone pretty recently. In fact, I just released the podcast. And, you know, we have this thing, we think things is it's got to be this or that. Either I planned my whole life and I'm in control of my whole thing, or it's the opposite, that God's in charge of it. And why did God do this to me? And I love the way she described it. She said it's like a dance, you know, you have, you have a partner. And we make these unspoken covenants with what we call God. And we say, okay, as long as I'm a good person, as long as I do this and this, and then you're going to protect me. And my family. And then when something happens, then we feel like either God broke his promise, or we must not have kept our end. But, you know, we were never promised that, you know, that, that, that was a one-way contract.

Yeah.

Right. I no longer believe it. God's— it's God's fault. Yeah. God made this happen, or didn't listen to my prayers. You know, I know that's how it's— we grew up that way, but that all had to shift. Uh, and it's, um, I, you know, and I, like I said before, I don't understand all of it, and I, I come to a place where that's okay that I don't understand all of it, but I know there's some— it's all ultimately good and as it should be. And I know that's a tough one sometimes to to bring up.

But then knowing that they're not gone, I feel like helps. Because if you said to me, Davey's gone, you can never talk to him again, that's too painful. And so those parents that aren't talking to their child, I want to say to them, just fake it if you have to in the beginning, because it— your body will feel so much better.

Mhm.

You know, it's like, and then you start connecting with them and you're like, is that real? I know you guys are I think you're caring listeners, right? So I'm on with people all the time. And they'll be like, I just never hear them. I just don't understand. And I'll go, well, what would your child say right now about what you're saying? And they go, oh, they're like, Mom, you hear me? And I go, you just connected. You just gave me their personality. You just did it. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, have either one of you ever taken any medium, mediumship training?

Admit I have not.

Okay. I did, I did just a little bit. And I've, again, I've always said I'm not intuitive. And then what would happen is they'd say, make a connection, and I would, I would just make something up. And sometimes it was wrong, but a couple times it was like, I just, it was right. And it was weird stuff. So what you were saying, Alison, is, you know, when you, when you think you're hearing your child's voice, you know, trust it. It may not sound like their voice. It's gonna be like the little voice inside your head. But you know their personality. And that's what I get from Shannon, you know, I— so I think that that's a really good piece of advice to people. And like you said, sometimes we fake it till we make it. And then, and then look for those synchronicities or signs that back it up.

Yeah, yeah. And the automatic writing as well, similarly, Yeah, that I have done, that I have done, where, uh, you sit with a journal and ask— you can write out a question to your loved one, your child, and whatever's coming to you, whatever it is, just, just write it down. Don't, don't decide whether or not you think it's really, you know, just, just write it all. Ask a question, write an answer. And I did that and purposely just kind of set it aside, looked at it a week or two later. It went Wow, that's Eric, you know, and so it's, again, it's that trust and getting out of the way, I guess.

And that is a form of mediumship, because mediumship is just being, being in the middle, right? So automatic writing is a way of kind of getting your brain out of it. And you just write what comes to you. So it's another, it's just a way of, I think what we have to do to make that connection is to turn off that left brain that's analyzing everything. In whatever way is possible. So for some people, it might be meditation, it could be automatic writing, using a pendulum, you know, people, people use different things, whatever works, whatever works for you to make that connection. But it comes down to the thing that we're all talking about in common is that they're still here. You know, you have, you have to start with at least the belief that they might still be here.

Yep.

And not see them with your eyes. Feel them with your heart. Yeah, right. And somebody, one of the parents in the book said, it's not a relationship, relationship anymore. It's a soul-ship. And that's kind of cool. It's a new language that you have to learn.

Yeah. So let's talk about the book. We've talked, we've talked about a little bit. It's how many stories? How many parents? 130. Wow. Okay. And so they're sharing their transformations, signs? What are they, what are they sharing in the book?

Well, uh, it, it all started with, uh, Mark Pitstick had done these, uh, YouTube, um, interviews through Helping Parents Heal. He had 4 to 6 parents per hour-long session, uh, with the help of Lynn Holohan, and asked the same 6 questions to each person. And at some point, well, he tells the story beautifully, but Alison's son Davey came to him and told him, or right in the middle of one of the interviews, and told him that you need to make this into a book. So that's just a very, I don't know if Alison wants to tell more about that. But so, yeah, the questions were in regards to, of course, talking about their child, how they found Helping Parents Heal, but also if they've had any connections with their child and if they've— what they've learned in this whole journey so far. And do— and the hardest question, Mark would say, is, do you believe there was maybe a purpose or a timing behind this, uh, that they were able to answer? So that's, uh, what are the— those turned— questions turned into chapters of the book with all the various responses from the parents. And so, Allison, do you want to add anything to that?

I just think it was so— I know we got to really read through it and transcribe it and everything. So I got the benefit of it. And you just hear these amazing stories of people who went through the horror and tragedy but came out on the other side. And all they've learned is so powerful. Even for me, you know, being 8 years in, I was like, wow, this is so cool to read this and see this.

Yeah, there's something about um, knowing that other people have been what you've been through, and even though we know it intellectually, yes, other people have had children in car accidents or children lost to suicide or fentanyl or whatever, um, you still feel— I, I, at least I felt very lonely, like nobody really understands, you know, what I'm going through. And when I started doing the research for my book, I realized the percentage of people who lose a child, especially when you're over the age of 50, which I was when, when Shayna transitioned. It's not that rare. It does happen. And we don't know when we walk out and we see people, we don't know that they've lost a child. So there's something about helping parents feel that— does it make you feel less alone? You know, being a part of this organization?

Yes, absolutely.

It's—

it really can blow you away when you see, let's say, for example, on the Facebook group, you know, all the postings made by parents, or just going to the conference and all those people on all the children, all the badges with the beautiful photos of their children and all the stories about their children. Yes, you've— you realize I'm not the only one. I'm far from the only one. This happens to a lot of people. And it somehow provides some strength, I guess. For a lot of us.

And also the message that we're shining light parents. I didn't know. I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't be in grief forever. I was like, this is too uncomfortable. It was like I wanted to crawl out of my skin. I didn't know how to. It was so painful. And so when shining light parent, I let Davey's light shine through me. I want to be the best I can be, living life with him and let him come through to me. I loved that idea. And I, I love that I do feel like a shining light parent. But what's interesting, I feel like Davey's with me now all the time. And now it's more about learning about my own soul. It's like I've kind of transitioned into learning, because I know he's with me right here.

Yeah.

So now it's about learning more about myself and my soul.

I agree.

You've— I love what you said about grief being so painful. And it's weird because we will often hold on to the pain because we associate the pain with our loved one. And we think if we let go of the pain, we're letting go of them. And that's, that's— and it is a choice. What we're talking about is a choice. And I learned it really early, back when I was like, I don't want to be here. And if I am, I'm never going to heal because I'm going to show the world that, you know, I love my daughter so much that I was never the same. And I made this vow internally, And I went to a meeting of another grief organization, and this woman walked in. She was 10 years in. She was miserable. She made everybody in the room miserable in 5 minutes. She was still angry. It was like her daughter just had passed the day before, or I would say died, because I think she thought her daughter had died. And I came back from that, and I'm like, I can't do this. I, I can't. Even though I don't want to heal right now, I can't do this to my wife. I can't do this to my daughter. I can't do this to other people that are around me. I don't have a choice.

Right. Yeah, I— there is some stigma, or I guess I don't know what the right word would be. But for people who believe that maybe that's how they connect, maybe their way of connecting with the loved ones through the pain.

Yeah, that's what— yeah.

And so what and maybe they don't believe their loved one or their child, let's say, is right there. Maybe they believe their child, if they exist at all, is far away. So therefore, that pain is a way to connect. Whereas what we have found, and a lot of people have found, is that since they are here and we do have a relationship with them, it doesn't have to be painful. And I know that, Brian D Smith, you and I took David Kessler's course, and the education— educator certification for grief educator. And again, his basic message is to remember them with more love than pain. And you don't have to be in pain all the time to still connect.

Yeah. And you know, it's funny, I was talking to someone earlier, because David's courses is non-religious, non-spiritual. Yeah. And I was talking to someone earlier, and I said, you know, when I work with people, I can work with you if you're not spiritual, but it's gonna be a lot harder. Because, you know, I don't know if you believe your loved one is gone. I mean, you can't— I mean, you can heal. I mean, you can, but it's gonna be a lot harder. And people, you know, they ask about helping parents, you know, because we're non-dogmatic. First of all, we're not, We're not faith-based, we're not spiritually based. But people have said, if you come into the organization, we will not force you to believe anything. We won't, we don't have any dogma we're going to preach. But you're probably going to start believing it after a while, because it's just, you're going to be surrounded by it.

Yeah. And I get that people are gonna, your first year, you're gonna have those waves. I call it like you're, you're like, okay, I can breathe, I'm walking. And then something hits you, you see something and you're just And I think you just got to go through the waves. And then over the years, the waves get less. And as you connect with your child, you feel them more. And so then it changes. You feel them more as time goes on and the waves are less. That's what I'd say. There is hope. Yeah, everybody can do this.

Yeah. And when also when the waves hit, people will think, okay, I just took a step backward. I thought I, I thought I had healed. But then my uh, I had to go to a wedding and I had to, I had to watch the first dance. I remember with Shayna, um, because she was 15 when her friends started graduating from high school and they were inviting us to the high school graduations. And then when they started graduating from college and, you know, all those, all those milestones, even though they might be 2, 3 years later, you know, at those big events, that's when you, you really miss them. You know, when my nephews got married because she was really, really close with, you know, with her cousins. And so those events will, will bring those things back. So the, the waves may have turned into ripples for a while, but they can still, you know, hit you every once in a while, even a little later on.

Oh yeah, they, they will. And some people are a little bit offended by the word healed, right? I don't know if you, you've heard that. I've heard that brought up more recently. And what I always say is healing will go on for the rest of our lives here on Earth. So we're going to continue— it will evolve and it will shift.

Yeah.

But it's not like one day we'll go, oh, I'm done healing and I'm good, you know, everything's fine. Because of course, as you've been mentioning, you know, we're, we're going to continue to have those feelings and the missing— the missing isn't going to go away. Yeah.

I typically don't use the word healed. It's just, it's so common in the vernacular today. So sometimes it does come out. But I remember one of the first grief— the first grief counselor I had, and she used a great analogy, said, you know, right now your whole— your heart has a big hole in it. And it's been ripped open, and it's raw around the edges, and it hurts. You're always going to have that hole, but the edges will heal, will heal up. So there will always be that, that place. And grief, I also want to say, based on that, is grief is not a disease. It's not something to be healed. But that, that deep, raw, I don't want to be here pain, that can be— that we can, we can move on from. We can move forward and say, yeah, I miss them. Yes, I wish they were, they were here. But I'm going to enjoy my life because, well, I wish they were— they are here. We just were talking about— they are here physically, but they're not here in the way that we would like for them to be here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you can have amazing moments when you connect, when you just start believing it. Just be open to it. That's what I would say. And like I said, even if you have to fake it, but when you connect, when you just get— put everything else aside and just pretend you're talking to your child and feel their love and get in that moment. Don't think about anybody else. Just be there. You can feel such love. It's unbelievable. And I think maybe because they're helping you connect to your soul. That's kind of how I see it.

Okay. Where did that come from?

Did somebody do that?

Did you see that?

Oh my gosh. Okay. I don't know what that was.

We know. Yes, we know where that came from. Okay.

Okay.

That was fun.

So for anybody that's listening to the podcast, not watching on Zoom, this thumbs up with bubbles around it just came up. And I know there's, I know there's a Zoom reaction thing. But I don't know if you triggered that somehow, but it's not triggering now. So I don't know how that happened.

Oh my goodness. That was cool.

And what I love about reading about other people's signs is signs come in all different ways.

Yeah.

And you have to be open to them. You know, like the sign you said about the dance at the wedding, because if you don't pay attention, it's the timing of the way things happen sometimes other than the thing that happened. So just, you know, your nephew coming and your sister saying to have the dance, that's not necessarily that big of a deal. But the fact that you knew that it was coming makes it a big deal. And I don't think I'll ever forget this one because it was— it's— I was like listening to a podcast one morning. And this woman said, my daughter sends me a sign that when I'm out somewhere, a stranger will walk up and say, I knew your daughter. And I thought, that's not a sign. Someone walking up and saying, I knew your daughter, that just— they knew your daughter and they saw you and they just— they're just saying that. It's not a sign. So I go on my walk that morning. I walk the same route. I've been walking the same route for years. And I'm walking past this house. I walk by every single day. And this woman walks down the driveway and she's got a really long driveway, like, I don't know, 30 yards or something. She walks up to me as I'm walking past her mailbox. I take out my earbuds and I'm like, yes. She goes, I just wanted to let you know, I see you walking every day. And my daughter knew your daughter. They were in Girl Scouts together. And I'm like, hey, I guess that's a sign.

Someone's telling you.

Exactly.

It's a sign.

Yeah. I have a quick one.

Yeah, please.

Just to kind of explain. So my youngest daughter was having a birthday, and I was struggling what to get her because the year before, she had turned 21 a week after Davey's transition. So it was not a good birthday.

So it's her next birthday.

And I'm in, I'm like, Davey, what do I get her? And he's like, remember we used to get this? What I'm, I'm not hearing a voice, you guys. It's like in my mind I'm hearing it, right? Mm-hmm. And he said, remember Dad and I used to get Tiffany, we would go to Tiffany's for you girls and get you a little something. Go get this infinity necklace.

That's what I'm thinking.

Okay, I'm gonna go do that. So I go do that. I get it for her and the morning I, I give it to her on her birthday. And then I read Suzanne Giesemann's message daily. I love her message every day. And the message that day was an infinity sign and explaining what the infinity sign means. And I went, yeah. And I wrote Suzanne, I said, thank you for being my sign today. And that kind of thing, you just have to pay attention. It's not like, hey, Mom, I'm here. I'm talking, you know what I mean? It's like, you have to just pay attention to things.

Right, right. And again, I think that's what, like reading other people's signs. Can help you do because you start to notice and you, and you realize that, that it's, it's that. It's, um, so yeah, we're coming to the end of our time, but I really appreciate you guys doing this, um, what you do with Helping Parents Heal, being caring listeners. We've talked about because people— so just so you know, uh, you don't have to be— we're not really a membership organization, but if you want to reach out to somebody, we have people that are called caring listeners. You can call up and talk to like, like Dolores And like Allison, so appreciate you doing that. Anything you want to share about the book Helping Parents Heal or yourselves before we, before we sign off for the evening?

I'd love to bring up the amazing synchronicity that started this whole thing off was that it was interesting, the first time I and Allison and Nancy Haina and Annemarie Taplin got together on Zoom was we're just beginning this process, this long 6-month or more process of get— gathering everything. And we talked about our children. It turns out, for— now Nancy does have 2 sons in spirit, but of her one son Joey, I believe, and the 3 of us, all of the boys were in their 20s and passed by way of an auto accident of some sort, or a motor vehicle type accident. And we thought, really, the four of us? It just so happens that they're all boys, and they all was related to a road-type accident, which felt very much like, okay, this is a sign that hello, and they're all saying hello. Yes, you are supposed to be doing this. And it felt very validating that we were there together. Yeah. So yeah, just there's For anyone, again, as we've already mentioned, that is starting this journey, or even if you've been on it for a couple of years, there's just so much validation of not only how difficult this has been and what you've gone through, but that your child is here. Uh, um, the signs, of course, like you said, Brian D Smith, there's just so many different kinds, and they're all mentioned in the book. There's just one after another. And to really be able to take a look at what have we learned from this, what have we gotten out of this? Because believe it or not, we have. There are things, good things that actually people don't want to admit that, but there are good things that have come from this. And it's beautiful to look at that.

It's hard to say those words sometimes, even now.

But I know, I hesitate.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison, any last words?

Just reiterating that you're not alone. Because right now I know it feels very lonely on this journey. But you're not. There's many people here and many people across the veil that are there for you.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, thank you so much for being here. And you guys enjoy the rest of your evenings.

And thank you, Brian, for all you do, book, your podcast, you helped me.

Oh yes, Brian, thank you for all of it. It's so good. I, I do listen all the time. You have these so many amazing speakers and guests, so thank you so much, Brian.

Awesome. All right, talk to you guys later. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grief-the-number-2-growth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.