UNLEARNING the LIES: Stephani Grace’s Guide to Discovering Your TRUE Self and Finding Real Happiness!

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah.

Yeah. It's good to have you here, Stephanie. I always like to start off by letting my listeners get to know the person that we're talking to a little bit more. So tell me about yourself. Where do you live? What are your hobbies? All that kind of stuff.

Yeah, well, let's see. Um, I live in, in Portland, Oregon, and I am newly an empty nester. So I was a single mom for 11 years, and my daughter just went off to college. So that's been a big transition for me this year. Um, and I recently bought a house in Mexico, so I've been kind of going back and forth and enjoying the sunshine there and love the ocean and water. And, um, Here I have my private practice. I'm a mental health therapist, but because of COVID I've been doing all my appointments online. So now, even though my practice has been based in Oregon, I can see people anywhere, but I spend a majority of my time here.

And yeah, sounds like an exciting time in your life. A couple of transitions going on there.

Yeah, some major transitions. Yeah, it's a little bit bigger of a transition than I was anticipating, you know, learning to kind of have all this freedom that people think, oh, it's such a gift, which it is, but it's also a big shift, you know, to go from kind of having your focus be your child to then all of a sudden being like, whoa, what do I— now what do I do with all this free time? Yeah, I can focus on me.

Yeah, being a parent, you know, for me, it was— is all-consuming. And I remember when my oldest daughter went off to went off to college, it was, uh, it was a— I wouldn't say bittersweet. I missed her. So I know how you feel about it, but that was tough for me.

Yeah, totally. Oh my gosh, I miss her. So last time I saw her was January. So I'm— you know, the thing is, is that of course you want your child, and I'm so grateful that she is thriving and doing well, and it makes me so happy, and I want her to be independent. But also my heart misses her, and I miss that, you know, the time that we had together and that she was in my house and a part of my everyday life, and now it isn't. That's a— it's a tricky— it's a tricky thing. So my heart goes out to all the parents who, you know, have to learn how to deal with that loss. Um, yeah, yeah.

So, so tell me, how did you get into mental health therapy?

Well, um, I think how I, I really got into it is from my— I think my own work. I just found spirituality and psychology just fascinating. I feel like And, you know, since I left home and went to college, I've just been voraciously attracted to reading spiritual books and books on psychology and things like that. And so I think, you know, just, I was just drawn to that work. And through my own healing work, really felt called to help other people be able to heal and know their truth. And that's how it, that's really what, what got me on this path. I have never felt like anything else was meant for me than this, really. That's good.

That's good that you, that you know, kind of what your calling was. And I know that you mentioned the word healing, and we talk a lot about healing, and Mike's show is Grief to Growth. But tell me about what is it that you think we have to heal from?

Well, I think for everybody, it probably varies. But I think what we all have in common is that, you know, we, we are all divine beings. And I think that the piece that we all have in common is that we all experience conditioning from our society. And I guess when I say healing from that, that's what I'm referring to, is that, you know, we, we need to unlearn the conditioning that we've gotten from our families and society and the world so that we can come back to knowing what our truth is, because it, it is, I think, profound suffering to think we are something other than divine or our truth, you know, to think that we are our conditioning, that causes us a lot of suffering, I think.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And it's funny, because it's something I came to later in life. I knew that I had been wounded, you know, I didn't realize that it seems like it's a universal thing.

Yeah, I do think so. I mean, it was interesting. I was talking with someone the other day who asked me about this. She said, "Well, you know, I think I know some people who didn't have wounding in their childhood and they are amazing enlightened beings. And why do you think that is?" And I was, you know, I said, "Well, that's an interesting question because I think it is possible." And I don't know the answer to that. I mean, maybe there are people who come here, you know, and already have done all their work and they just get to enjoy this lifetime. But I do believe that most of us come here, um, to do important work. Like, you know, we have healing work to do too. I believe that the goal of the healing is to come back to our truth, to know that we are love, you know, and to learn to love each other and share love. And so if you come here already knowing that, that's really cool, but I think it's probably pretty rare.

I was going to say, have you met any of these people?

I haven't myself, you know, and I've been a therapist for 20, gosh, almost 22 years now, you know.

Yeah, I might— I think we do come in knowing who we are. But I think the world kind of beats it out of us, for lack of a better word. We get— we do get this conditioning that says that we're something less than that.

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. I mean, even I think people who are profoundly enlightened, like, you know, Thich Nhat Hanh, and his book, gosh, I'm just gonna escape my mind now, but the one where he talks about healing your inner child. He talks about even people who come from families that, you know, where they didn't have profound suffering, just from being the mere fact of being here in the world, you know, we, we get conditioning or wounding that requires us to heal our inner child, you know.

Yeah, I, you know, as you said that, I was thinking about myself. And I remember one of my earliest memories, I was born in 1961. So I remember seeing the Vietnam War, you know, on TV and thinking, what kind of a world is this when people are killing each other? And this was not wounding from my parents. This was just looking at the world and saying, this place is insane.

Right, exactly. I mean, so that's the thing. Even if you have good parents, you might, you might have struggles, you know, with friendships, right? You might get bullied or excluded, or— it's interesting how each of us gets wounding that is very unique to us, but, but really leaves scars or causes us to have beliefs that we are other than we are, you know.

Right. So we know, and I was looking at some of your work earlier, and you use the term ego, which is a loaded term. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around the ego. So first, I'd like for you to define what ego is and tell me how that's different from your true self.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. It is. It can be very confusing. That term, when I use the term ego, what, what I'm referring to is the conditioned self. And so I use those two interchangeably. That, and often I will say the conditioned self rather than the ego because I do think that the ego can be confusing. The important thing I like people to know about the ego is that the ego is a part of you. And so I think oftentimes I hear people saying like, kill the ego or hate the ego, you know, but we will never be free from our conditioning or our ego through hate or rejection or, you know, anything like that. It, the key to your freedom is by embracing and learning how to give your ego or conditioned self what it needs in order to integrate. And your ego is really developed out of fear, out of keeping you safe. So its mission is really— so you can empathize, you know, it's like it's trying to help you. It's like, do this and people will love you, do this, people will accept you, oh, don't do that, you know. So everything that it's doing for you, even though it's doing it in a way that's usually very critical and mean, is designed to keep you safe and getting your needs met. So that's the ego. The true self is, you know, is love. You were born as your true self, as a divine being, and your true self is nothing but love and would never treat you in a way that is anything but loving and love. And so, you know you're in ego or your conditioning if you're experiencing anything other than that. Right? And so coming back to your truth or even knowing that there's these two parts to you is, I think, the key to freedom and happiness. Because a lot of people don't even realize there are two parts. They're walking around in their conditioning or their ego thinking that that's their truth, thinking that— they may not even be aware of that their conditioning is mean or causing them suffering. They just think that's their truth.

Yeah, I completely agree with that. So I'm curious, because I don't hear a lot of mental health therapists speaking in language that you use. Is this something you learned in school or just something you brought along with you?

Yeah, definitely not something I learned in school. I— yeah, it's interesting. I'm— this is just from my own journey and my, my path on the path to my own healing and, and just being a seeker. I'm— I feel that I'm a voracious seeker and kind of, you know, wanting to learn all of this. I've just been, you know, as early as I can remember, kind of curious about all of this kind of stuff and have come to know this through my own research and work on myself. And then know now that this is the only way for people to heal and truly be happy, which is why this is the way that I work with people. And yeah, I don't— I think there might be some places where you know, their schools or teaching for therapists might be mindfulness-based. That's what I say when people ask me how I work with people. I say that my work is very mindfulness-based.

Yeah, I would say your work is spiritual. I hope that works for you. Works for you. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. And I find it refreshing, frankly, because I do know a few people. I know someone who's actually a psychiatrist. Who speaks in this type of language. And my belief is that that's the only thing that's going to heal us, is really understanding who we truly are. I was just talking with someone earlier today, I was doing an interview, and I'm like, this is the key to everything. And I think Western medicine is kind of beating that out of a lot of mental health professionals that don't have that perspective.

Yeah, I would agree with you. And it's interesting because this is how I show up for people, and, um, And I will tell you, sometimes people are scared of the fact that it may feel too spiritual. But here's the interesting thing. Hardly anyone is scared away because it resonates with them on some level. They know that what I'm speaking is the truth and they hear it somewhere in their body. And the thing is, is that people come to me because they're tired of suffering and they want to find freedom from that. And I think they believe me. You know, I am a very passionate person. You can tell that when I'm speaking, I'm speaking the truth. And so I think people think, ooh, okay, maybe she knows something. Maybe I'm going to give it a try.

Yeah, I think, I think that's awesome. And there is some fear of being labeled spiritual or being, you know, woo woo. I'm going through a training thing right now. And it's, it's, I think it's extremely spiritually based, but they've changed they've taken out the language to make it sound very, you know, scientific and everything, which is great. I don't, I don't, I don't mind that. But I like the fact that you don't shy away from that. Because I think like you said, people, we kind of know, on a certain level, maybe on a subconscious level, we know that what we're looking at is crazy. And we know that there's got to be a different way to do life. And so they come seeking someone like yourself.

Yeah, I mean, and if people don't— excuse me— if they don't like the terms I use, so if I throw something out, people feel repulsed by, like, I have a lot of clients who don't like the word God, things like that, then I say, "Fine, let's choose a word you like. If you choose a word you feel comfortable with, let's put it in there. You can choose any language you like." You know, and even sometimes I have people, one of my favorite practices is gratitude practice because it focuses on what's working. And it's something that I always tell people, if you're only going to do one thing that I recommend, do that because it's easy. You can do it just in your mind. You can pair it with something you're already doing. But if you don't like the word gratitude because it feels too spiritual or godly to you, then use what's working practice. Say, OK, let's do your what's working practice every day.

Interesting. Well, it's funny. I want to pursue that because you bring up gratitude because, again, I was just talking with someone earlier about this idea of gratitude. And frankly, I heard it probably 5 or 6 years ago. I was very resistant to it. I'm like, mm. This is what— this is crazy. This is not going to work. And I can tell you, after having practiced it for several years, I am a real believer. So why is it you think the gratitude is so important?

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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Well, I think that what it does is it shifts your focus to, first of all, what's working, and then it begins to help you with self-love and hope and things like that because you feel that you are worthy because what you're focusing on is is what's working. And then it makes you feel like, oh, well, things can work out for me or things can get better because that's what your brain is focusing on. You're no longer focusing on what isn't working or what will go wrong. You know, it's just very simple, but it helps you to, you know, just realize what you have and what's working. And I mean, the number one thing I get from people when I, I ask them to do gratitude practices that, well, I just say the same things every day and then I get tired of it and I don't want to do it anymore. You know, so here's the thing. First of all, okay, well, if you're grateful for the same things every day, okay, that— be grateful for the same things every day. That's okay. But the more that you do it, the more that you'll find that there's even more to be grateful for. And I often ask people to pair it with something. So, for example, and pair it with when you walk your dog, if you have a dog. Then when you're out in the world, it changes your perspective because you're out in the world and you're walking. And then maybe you'll be like me in Portland, Oregon. Oh my God, I'm so thankful that the sky is blue right now or that the sun's shining. And then, oh, it's spring and look at all these beautiful flowers. And maybe you run into another dog owner and they're very kind, or, you know, you get to see, you know, some cute animals, who knows. But they're all of a sudden, because you're in that way of thinking, you start to notice even more that you can be grateful for. And, and you can try it out as a scientific experiment. But if you start to focus on what you're grateful for, it just creates more and more of it. So pretty soon you've got more and more things working for you.

Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, you— we talked earlier, you're in Portland, Oregon. I'm in Ohio. It's— Ohio this time of year is just back and forth. One day it's cold. You know, it snowed a couple of weeks ago. Today it's, it's 85 degrees. And it's sunny. So, and I love the warmth. So, you know, I think sometimes, you know, I hate the winter, but because of the winter, I love the spring so much more.

Yep, yep. That's the contrast, right? I mean, that's what I believe is that contrast really helps us to learn what it is that we need to learn. So it's like, if you have times where you don't see the sun, it really makes you understand what it's like to see it. Whereas if you have a lack of love, you really, you know, appreciate it when you learn to have love or, you know, you experience love.

Yeah, it's funny, as we're talking about this, I was speaking with someone a few weeks ago, and they said their father is from Cuba. And they said, you know, they never talk about the weather. And it was interesting because it's always, I guess, 80 degrees and sunny, you know, here, the first thing we do, we jump on a Zoom, you know, I asked you, what's it like where you are? Because we're always, you know, because it does change. And we can learn to, you know, appreciate because of the contrast, we can learn to appreciate the nice weather.

Yes, yes, exactly.

So, um, you know, one of the questions that I asked you for some, for example questions, and this is a great one, it's like, what is real happiness? So what is it? What is real happiness?

Yeah, so what real happiness, what, what I mean by that is I think that a lot of times people don't feel happy because they're placing their happiness on something external. So it's like, if I get this job promotion, I will be happy. If I lose weight, I'll be happy. If I find my ideal partner, I'll be happy. But what happens is when people reach these milestones, often they find, hmm, some reason I'm not happy. So now I need this other job. Maybe there's something wrong with my relationship. So I think that people often think that external things will bring them happiness, but the reason why external can't bring us real happiness is that it's not sustainable. So I mean, what happens when, when your relationship ends, when you lose the job or you don't get the job or you gain your weight back? Right. And so real happiness is about what you and I were talking about earlier. It's about learning that it comes from within, that it's about you understanding your truth, that the understanding that your conditioning is not your truth. So in order to find real happiness, you first have to understand that, that there is such a thing as conditioning and that it isn't you. And all those messages that you've gotten from your conditioning about how you have to be in order to be accepted and loved isn't valid. And so when you understand that, then you can begin creating your relationship with yourself. You can become your own best friend, your partner, your mother, your father, and, you know, show up for yourself in all the ways that you need and love and accept yourself as you are, regardless of what you're doing in your life. You're always there for yourself. That's real happiness.

Yeah. And you kind of talked about that earlier. You were saying how the ego sometimes will kind of beat us up, right? And tell us that I guess we are not good enough, our circumstances aren't good enough. And so as long as you're listening to that, you can't ever really truly be happy.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's the thing that's hard, you know. I know that what I'm talking about, I make it sound like, oh, it's so easy, just find your true self and love yourself. But I understand that, that the conditioning can be so profound, right? I understand. And the reason why I I am so patient and I believe that anybody can find real happiness is because I've done it and I've come from a very far place in terms of finding it. And I know that even though it can be hard work and, you know, it takes practice to be willing to retrain your neuropathways and it takes time to willingness to sit with yourself, I, I know that people can, can find it. And I know that anyone can do it.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's interesting because just because something is simple doesn't mean that it's easy. And I guess that's the thing, you know, and sometimes for us that have the similar message, people look at you and say, what's not that easy? I just can't be grateful all the time. And I just can't make myself happy. Because you can't. You can't just think your way out of it. But there is, there is work you can do. There are techniques, there are things that you can do. And the first thing is understanding what's making you unhappy.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, you know, as humans, we, we all have ups and downs. And so even though I understand all of this and I feel that I can be in joy most of the time, I also still have times where I'm grumpy or I fall off and do things I don't like, but the point is that I understand that and I show up for myself in those times. And I know that I can't control external, but I can work with myself to be okay internally. And I can support myself in the ways that I need when externally— external isn't going the way I want. Yeah, we can all do that.

Yes. And I think that's, that's an important thing to say because You know, people might hear this message and say, well, if you're saying if I do this, I'll be happy all the time and nothing will ever bother me. And I'm assuming that's not what you're saying.

Yeah, I mean, that's the funny thing, you know, that I've found. I've been, I've been doing my own this work for over 20 years now. And I think I thought when I started on this spiritual journey that like, one day, it would be like that, where you're like, oh, things don't bother you, or you're just happy all the time. But actually, that doesn't happen. And it's kind of a little bit of a letdown when you realize that life continues to be challenging and people continue to sometimes be mean or things happen the way that you don't want them to all the time. But what changes— it's still painful, but what changes is that you understand that how you show up for yourself and you understand that it doesn't get to mean anything about you. That you define your truth, your worth, your lovability. Nothing else external gets to, and nothing else external, regardless of how hard it is, gets to take anything away from you unless you let it.

Yeah, I think, you know, the thing is, I haven't found it disappointing yet. But because the thing is, I'm like, we're, I think we're here to learn. And I think we're here to deal with these challenges. And there are going to be things that we don't like, the world is still a crazy place. And I hope I never get to the point where I don't let those things upset me in some way that what I don't— because I think, I think our emotions are all important. And that emotion of, of anger, if you see injustice, I hope I always have that. But it's how it's how I deal with it. It's how I sit with it. It's how much I let it affect me and how long I let it affect me.

Exactly. Yep. And that's, that's the reason why happiness is in our control, right? It's because we We— you're right, like, things are going to bother us or upset us, but it's up to us how we manage that and how we take care of ourselves, how we show up for ourselves, and how we let it impact others. Because it's our responsibility to take care of our own emotions and such so that they don't go on to others.

Right, right. Well, and the thing is, I guess, um, and I'm again kind of maybe putting words in your mouth, but we don't have to be happy about the situation, but we can we can learn to deal with it. And, you know, I read a book many years ago by Viktor Frankl, you know, talking about, you know, Man's Search for Meaning. And I'm like, if this guy can be okay in those conditions, then I should be able to be okay in any conditions that I'm in. And that's the thing, you know, you're not happy about the conditions, but you learn how to, how to deal with it, I guess.

Yep, exactly. Acceptance is one of our keys to freedom, right? That's what it's about is like, we don't have to like it, but then that's our choice. We can either not like it and be mad about it and let it ruin our day or our life, or we can accept it and learn to be OK and have a good life or a good day. You know, it's up to us, really.

Well, let's talk about acceptance. So how is acceptance different from, say, giving up?

Ah, good one. Well, I believe that giving up is about closing yourself off. So it's like giving up is kind of, um, not really, um, being open or feeling it, whereas I feel acceptance is maintaining your openness. So allowing yourself to feel however you feel about whatever it is you're accepting. That's what I think.

Yeah, yeah. So, um, yeah, I know you say acceptance is your key to freedom, and I think for, for people They might well say, well, of course, I have to accept what is. But what's your, what's your experience been about people accepting what is?

It's hard for people to accept what is, I think. I think that's one of the hardest things. I think that it's really hard for people to kind of get over that things don't often go our way, especially like in our society. We're really built on a society where people are like, you work hard, you get this, like, you, you know, you want to, you have goals and you achieve them. And so we're kind of set up to kind of have goals and expectations. And when we don't, it doesn't go exactly the way we want, people feel like failures, or they feel like life doesn't like them, or God doesn't like them, you know. And so I think it's hard for people to understand that. And, and what I say is that It's okay to have goals. It's okay to have expectations. Of course, you need them to be successful. The piece that you want to work with is your attachment to them. Because interestingly, I'm sure you know, life is constantly moving and constantly up and down. It hardly ever goes exactly how we want it to. And so if we can kind of just understand that and know that, yeah, we have our goal, but it might, it might, you know, like look differently than we originally set out, if we can be flexible in that way and accept it as we go, then, then we are much happier. And we're going to be much more successful too. And it could end up being way better than it was going to be anyway.

Yeah, that's, that's a great lesson. That's the lesson that took me a long time to learn. Because I, in my career, I always had goals. I want to do this, I want to get to this level in a certain company or whatever. And I, and then when I didn't get it, then I was like, oh, well, this is terrible. But then you find out later on, this actually worked out better, you know, for me, because I didn't get that, or even I even got fired from a job. And it turned out to be a great thing. But, you know, at the time, I certainly wouldn't have thought it was a great thing.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel the same way as you do in my life. In the beginning of my life, I used to sort of be a Type A personality and would be like, very driven and goal-oriented. And now, you know, I'm, as I've done more and more work, I understand that, you know, I'm just accepting that how things go or how they are going to go. And the more open we can be, that it's just allows us to, I think, have a lot more success. It's sort of trusting, I think, that things will work out for you in the best way possible. And I think being able to have that belief is very helpful.

We'll get back to Grief to Growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving, his book Grief to Growth is a best-selling, easy-to-read book that might help you or someone you know. People work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at www.grieftogrowth.com. Www.grief2growth.com or text growth, G-R-O-W-T-H, to 31996. If you'd like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/grief2growth, www.patreon.com/grief2growth. G-R-O-W-T-H, to make a financial contribution. And now back to Grief 2 Growth.

Yeah, I love what you said there. But it's again, one of those things that some people might say, well, why should I trust that things are going to work out for the best? You know, that might be a question someone comes back at you with.

Yeah. And what I would say is, okay, well, what if you want to focus on the worst? You can do that. How does that make you feel? Does it make you feel good? And so it's like you have a choice. You can choose either one. If you want to feel bad and focus on that it might not work out, you can do that. But it's going to make you feel bad and you're not going to— it's not going to feel better than trusting. So you might as well be open to what you want and trust that it'll work out because that feels better. You know?

Yeah. I wish someone had told me this about 40 years ago because I think a lot of us think, well, I'm just being a realist. You know, I'm just being a realist, things never work out for me. Things don't work out, you know, the universe is a cold, unaccepting, and, you know, uncaring place. And I'm just going to live in that truth, you know. And so I think people feel like in a sense, sometimes they're just being realistic when they think that.

Yeah, and they're being miserable. I mean, and that this is the thing is that what we focus on is what we create. So You know, and it does take people— I meet people like that. I have clients who start out like that, and it does take people a while to begin to shift in that way. But what happens is when we're focusing on what's working and we're focusing on what could go wrong, that does create our reality. And so that's what your reality will look like, and it'll keep proving to you over and over that things don't work out for you. But what you want to do is just begin to be willing. That's all it takes. And open and just begin to move over in the other direction to just like, this is when I would prescribe gratitude practice. All right, let's just start with that one step each day. So begin to focus on what's working and whether people believe it or not, there's at least a few things working in their life. Right? And so you start with that, just start focusing on what's working and then let's start to explore, well, how do you want it to look? This is how it's going, but how do you want it to look? Let's Let's explore that. And then I would have them begin to practice focusing on how they want it to look. And if they can't, if they're really struggling with that, then I would give them the phrase like, well, wouldn't it be great if it could go that way? So then that kind of, that like helps their ego. The ego doesn't like definitives. Like if you're like, well, this is how it's going to go, then it's easy for them to say, well, you know, my ego goes the opposite way. But if you, if you say something like, well, wouldn't it be great? It allows your ego to not get so rigid, because it's like, I'm not saying it's going to, I'm just saying, wouldn't it be great?

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's one of the things about human nature is that, and this is not a bad thing about human nature, it's evolutionary, is we focus on the negative, we focus on what's wrong. It's a great way to get fixed things. It's a great way to avoid danger. And back when we were running around, you know, running from saber-toothed tigers, it was really important to recognize, you know, danger right away and to react to it. But I think now we've kind of overdeveloped that, that thing. And as you, as you've so well said, it makes us miserable. And there's always so many things that are going right in our life. I mean, I don't care who you are, you know, I literally challenge anybody to tell me that there's nothing going right in their life right now.

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny, sometimes people think that we can't, we can't help them find it though, because there is just the fact that they're awake and alive, you know, that they're able-bodied or that they have a home or, you know, there's so many things that, that could be working. The interesting thing about what you were just saying is that people really like to cling to that because they think it prepares them for bad. They think that it keeps them from being disappointed. They think that it somehow, by going over all that could go wrong, they're kind of keeping themselves safe. But that's actually not true. It actually just causes you anxiety, it causes you suffering. And you're going to be disappointed, whether you prepare yourself or not. So why not focus on how you want it to go? Right?

Yeah. So yeah, great example that I— when I was younger, I hated flying. I had this anxiety, terrible anxiety about flying. And I realized after I was in therapy, I thought that my anxiety was actually keeping the plane in the air. And if I relaxed, then the plane would crash, which is a ridiculous notion. But I think a lot of times we do, we have this, this kind of superstitious thing that if I, if I think things are going to go well, not only am I going to be disappointed, I'm going to make things go badly. So I have to always be on the, you know, on the defense.

Yeah, it's exactly right, what you're saying. Yeah. And so we, we really want to get the message out to people that Oh my gosh, no, you're causing yourself so much undue anxiety and suffering. Like, you could be free from that and focusing on what you want and what works, because that is not helping you one, one bit. In fact, it's actually making it worse.

Yeah, well, this is the thing I always tell people. The one thing that we do know is, as you said, you're making yourself miserable now. We don't know if you can really change the world with your mind or not. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But we do know you're making yourself miserable by always worrying about what's going to go wrong.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, and the thing is, is that one of the things I tell people to ask themselves is like, when anxiety is future-based. And so when we bring ourselves back to the present moment, that is the only place that we're free. And so you can ask yourself in that moment, is there anything wrong in this moment? And that's a good question to ask yourself. Because usually, for the most part, I would say there isn't. If there is, then you can ask yourself, well, is there an action I can take? And if there's no action, then you can say, oh, oh my— I'm sorry, I had that off. But it's okay. Yeah.

No, you're absolutely right. And I've actually come to that question myself. And it's a question I've used to cope with my anxiety, you know, because 99.9% of the time, in this moment, there's nothing wrong. People, if you ask them that, they'll go to the future. They'll say, well, I might— this could happen or that could happen. But if you bring them back to this moment, the moment you're sitting right here in the chair, you— what do you really need right now? And that's a great exercise.

Yeah, yeah. Because what we find is, is that, you know, when we're right here in this moment, everything is okay and we're free. If, if we're in the future, we're anxious. If we're in the past, we're depressed. But here we're free.

Yeah. So we've talked a lot about acceptance, acceptance of circumstance. Let's talk about self-acceptance, because I think that's another thing people struggle with. Is just accepting who we are.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the key, right, is learning to love and accept ourselves just as we are. And I think, you know, as you and I have been talking about, often our conditioning that we get from our parents and the world, we learn that sometimes how our needs or how we are is somehow not okay. And then that's what we're working with. So when you're talking about self-acceptance, it's that we have to unlearn that piece or get away from that because our society really will send messages to us about what is ideal or most acceptable. And people feel if they don't fall into those categories that then they're not, right? And so it's understanding that Nothing external gets to define us. Nothing external gets to determine our lovability or our worth. And that's why that spiritual piece that you and I've been talking about, that at our core, our truth is divine, and that we, we are love, and we are enough just as we are.

Right. So how do we, how do we get to start to accept ourselves? What are some things we can, we can do?

Yeah, well, I mean, one of the, the biggest things I, I think is for people to begin getting to know their true self again, to begin to understand that, that who they really are beyond the conditioning. And so I always like to introduce meditation to people, and I like people to begin to sit with themselves in their, their body, to learn to begin to get away from the chatter in their mind, from their conditioning. And so that, that's often scary for people, and people are often like, Oh, that's hard. I can't sit with myself. You know, I don't have time. But here's the thing. It is hard for everyone. You know, the Buddha called our mind the monkey mind for a reason, because all of our minds are monkey minds until we sit with them and train them. And here's the other thing I tell people. You have 5 minutes. If you tell me you don't have 5 minutes, I know that that isn't true because everybody can create 5 minutes in their day. And that's the most that I like prescribe to people is 5 minutes at a time so that it feels really easy and doable. And so just start by doing 5 minutes. And I know that isn't a lot, but it's like more about creating the habit, more of beginning to get comfortable sitting with yourself, getting comfortable being quiet. There's a lot of healing and, you know, coming to love yourself is learning to be uncomfortable. It's like learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable, that we can tolerate pain. And sometimes, you know, sitting with ourselves in quiet can feel intolerable or painful, or sitting with our own pain can feel intolerable. But that's our key, is learning to tolerate that.

Yeah. You know, when people tell me that they, they don't have time, and it's a phrase that I try not to even use anymore, I'll say that I haven't taken the time to do something, not that I don't have the time, we all have the same amount of time in a day. And we prioritize our time. So what I tell people is, you know, certainly you're worth it, right? Aren't you worth spending 5 minutes on? Because we spend all of our time running around doing other things and not enough time on self-care. And one thing I love about what you're saying is, you know, we're both saying this is not necessarily easy. This is not something that you're just going to fall into. This is work. And that's what your book, I assume, tells us is how do we do this?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, one of the things that I've recently come across that makes so much sense to me, and now it's one of my favorite things, is that self-discipline is like the biggest act of self-love. Because if you think about it, that is so true because it's not easy to always make the choices that we need to make to honor ourselves or love ourselves. But, you know, taking the discipline to do the things that we know are going to help us get where we need to go is what it takes. And that, I think, is the number one reason why people don't heal or people don't find real happiness is because people don't want to do anything different or they don't want to practice. They don't want to take the steps. And I get it, but it doesn't have to be hard. It's like we can do it. That's why my book is the way that it is. It's like, I know that things have to be very small and easy for people to be able to do them. And it has to be consistent in terms of them being able to stay motivated and to make the changes that they need to make.

Yeah, I like your 5 minutes of meditation because so many people start off meditation, they just try to sit on the cushion for half an hour, which is almost impossible to do. And they'll do it once or twice and they're going to give up, like, well, this is terrible. So if you start off with something sustainable, like a simple gratitude practice like you mentioned earlier, or 5 minutes a day of doing meditation, or maybe 5 minutes a few times a day, um, you know, maybe you could find a way to incorporate that into your day, then you can start to have some success, and then it feeds on itself. And that's, that's what I, you know, I've discovered, and hopefully that we can get this message across to people it may seem hard at first, but then you could— we think of habits as bad things. You know, they're bad habits, but you can also create good habits.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the other things about Creating Real Happiness in Dizzy, the book, is that it's like a lot of different options in terms of things people could do. And my hope is that people will find 1 or 2 that resonate for them that really feel like, oh, these are doable. I can add these to my life. And then they begin to make them a part of their life. Because here's what I know. Our world is such that if we don't create practices or things that keep us on our path, keep us where we want to be going, we will be pulled off. We will be pulled off over and over or not, you know, just not be on our path if we don't have things that inspire us or keep us on the path that we're on.

Yeah. Well, yeah, we talked about earlier that the world is— I think it's a crazy place. I think, you know, I don't think too many people would argue that with me. And for us to stay on our path, I love that image. You know, we've got to be disciplined, we've got to be, we've got to be focused. And people, hopefully people will accept that message. Because I think it's really important to— we have to create our own happiness, you know, and that's, that's why I love you, you title the book Creating Real Happiness, because it doesn't just happen to us, it doesn't just fall out of the sky. And as you mentioned earlier, it's not gonna be brought to us by our circumstances, you know, We could win the lottery tomorrow. A lot of people think that's the key to their success. But, you know, the key to happiness— but look up what happens to lottery winners.

Yep.

Yeah, I know. Not most of the time. It does not change their life for the better. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, another big subject that you talk about, and this is a, this is a tricky one for people, is forgiveness. So tell me about forgiveness and why that's important.

Yeah, this is a hard one for people, and I often have clients who feel resistant to this, and here's why. It's because often people think that when we talk about forgiveness, it means that we're saying it's okay if people treated them wrong or abused them. But when we're talking about forgiveness, we are not saying that somebody's bad behavior is okay, and we're not saying that you deserved it or anything like that. I believe that self-forgiveness is about self-love. And so when we're not forgiving someone, we're holding resentment, anger, pain in our body. And that's causing us suffering, only us suffering, not the person who hurt us. The pain that we have in our body is only impacting us.

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And so when we choose to work on forgiveness, we're releasing that from our body and freeing ourselves up, which is an act of self-love. And the steps that I think are important to truly be able to forgive, the first is the work that you and I have been talking about, is that first we have to do our own self-love work. We have to understand our own worth, our own truth, so that we know regardless of what happened to us externally or happens to us externally, that it doesn't get to mean anything about us or define anything about us. So it's important for us to know that truth before we can work on detaching from other people's behavior, because the second piece of forgiveness is we can call it empathy or understanding how somebody may have shown up in the way that they do. So it's like, why do you think this person who hurt you showed up in the way that they did? You know, and so, you know, taking the time to think, well, okay, I can see why their behavior might be that way, you know, understanding how they were raised or their circumstances. And then, you know, or maybe you don't understand or you can't fathom it, but what you can understand is that this person's behavior, whether it feels like it or not, is not personal. It actually has nothing to do with you. It's about their conditioning, their life circumstances, and it isn't personal, and so it doesn't get to mean you're not lovable, you're not worthy, you're not— it doesn't get to mean anything about you. And so those are the keys in terms of really truly being able to rid yourself of pain that another person has caused you.

Yeah, I think what you just said there is so— well, a lot— everything you just said there is really, really important. But to not take it personally, that's one of the Four Agreements. And I love the Four Agreements, they're so simple, but they're so profoundly true. We tend to take things that people do as per— like, they did this intentionally to hurt me. Someone cut you off in traffic. Well, no one's really trying to cut you off in traffic. Now, maybe they were rude, maybe they weren't paying attention, maybe they were distracted. But they weren't trying to cut you off. But that just seems to be the way that our ego reacts to things, right? I guess our ego is thinking, I'm going to protect you from this happening to you again. And that, that can block that forgiveness by when we say, oh, I know that they meant to hurt me. I know that that's— this person's out to get me.

Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, and that's— that happens all the time. And a lot has a lot to do with our own work, right? Especially like when we get into our interpersonal relationships, if we have blocks or things we haven't healed, then that's what we see in the world. So like we, you know, if somebody doesn't show up in the way we want, we think, "Oh, well, they're showing up in that way because they don't love me," or they were, you know, like you were saying, "They're trying to hurt me." But really, everybody is truly showing up the best that they can in any given moment based on their current conditioning and circumstances. And I know this is not a popular thing that I'm saying, but I do believe it's true. And so it's like if somebody hurts you, it's about their skills, their conditioning, whatever is going on in their life. And it really isn't about you.

Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because there was a guy I used to debate with years ago on the internet, and he would always say that no one truly does evil, that everybody does the best they can with what they know, with where they are, and there's conditioning in their circumstances. And I know that you're right, people push back against that and say, no, there are truly evil people in the world. And I— there are people in the world that do do things that are evil. That's definitely true. But in their minds, they're justified. And we all do. We all do things in our minds are justified. And we're all imperfect beings. So as you said, as we do this work on ourselves, and as we learn to accept ourselves, the good and the bad, then we can look at other people and say, well, maybe they don't have the skills that I have. So maybe that's why they did what they did.

Yeah, I, I agree with you. I do also believe that there— people do evil things, or that there are, you know, really evil things that happen out there. But I also, like you said, I believe that it's based on their, their stuff that, you know, they're, they're— like you were saying, they most likely believe they're justified in it, or, you know, some— something to that effect. It has to do with their conditioning in their life. Circumstances. Yeah, sorry, I can't remember the second part of what you asked me something.

Well, I was just saying that I think that, you know, I was just agreeing with you about people acting the best that they can. That, that I think is one of the keys. You talked about the two keys of forgiveness. That's one of the keys to forgiveness is understanding that people are not out to get you. You know, they're, they're, they're— people don't wait, don't sit around all day thinking about how they can hurt you.. And the other thing is, as you said, doing the self-love and acceptance, which allows us to have that empathy for other people. But I think the really, really important thing about forgiveness— and I grew up in a Christian tradition— because sometimes people think forgiveness is about the other person. And I need, I need to let go because God told me I needed to forgive. I don't want to hold things against other people. But, you know, you said it so well, when you're holding on to anger and resentment and also, you're just hurting yourself, you're not— the other person's probably not even thinking about you.

Exactly. Yeah. So I think if we can shift it, reframe it to it being about us, it's about loving ourself, letting go of that. And it has nothing to do with that person. Why continue to abuse yourself or create pain for yourself? Like you're continuing the abuse in a sense, right? By allowing yourself to carry that around or hold on to that. So let— letting go of that free frees you.

Yeah, and I've seen people forgive some, you know, incredible things, you know, and people will look at them and say, well, aren't you a saint because you did that? But again, from, from the perspective that we're speaking of, that's an act of self-love. That's an act of self-care.

Yep. Yeah, yeah, it's such a gift we could give to, to ourselves, you know, all these things you and I are talking about in terms of not taking things personally and letting go of you know, holding on to negative emotions. It's just, that is a gift to us. It allows us to free up space in our body for higher vibrational energy, right? So higher level emotions. And then that impacts the world because then when we show up in the world, we're showing up at these higher levels and we're then able to lift others up or help others. And so it's just all, all of this is really just you know, helpful to us and others.

So tell me about more about your book. So how is it laid out? When people get the book, what can they expect to find?

Yeah, so the book is— it's a very approachable book. I did it that way on purpose. So because as we talked about before, people, I think, get overwhelmed by things that are too big. And so I wanted it to be very small. So it's small. It's written in an A to Z format, which is why it's called Creating Real Happiness A to Z. And so what I've done is kind of taken my favorite things that I have used over the years with myself and my clients, and I've put them into this little book. And each, you know, it's like through the alphabet. So, you know, starting with A through Z, and you can do it in any way that you want. You can read it cover to cover and read each entry and do the exercise. Every entry has an exercise or a practice for you to do. And, or what you can do is just kind of, you know, use it every day and open, flip to a page and read something and do the exercise. You can do one a day or you can choose, you know, do one and work with it for a little while. Like, for example, one of my favorite things in terms of tools that we were talking about for self-love is mirror work. And I think that mirror work is something that you need to do on an ongoing basis. So longer than one day, I would say if you want to try mirror work, do it a minimum of like two weeks, something like that, you know, to practice helping yourself.

So tell me about mirror work.

Yeah, so mirror work, I think, is one of the most profound things you can do in terms of loving yourself, learning to love, learning to connect with your true self. It's the other thing aside from kind of meditation, mirror work, would be the other thing I would add to that. And so what it does is like, you look yourself in the mirror, in the eye, you feel that in your soul or your heart center. And you'll notice people can, everyone listening can try this, but we often avoid looking directly at ourself in the mirror. It's possible to look at yourself in the mirror without really looking at yourself. But when you're doing mirror work, you make sure that you really look yourself in the eye and then you choose a phrase. So like most likely I would want somebody to start with like, I love you, or you are so lovable, something like that. And you say it to yourself like 10 times in a row in the mirror. And what will happen when you look at yourself and you say that, it will trigger your ego. Your ego might talk back to you, like say, no, no, I don't, or oh God, look at your eye wrinkles, or oh God, you look awful today. You know, it will stir your ego up. And so that's kind of one of the ways you can kind of begin to see your truth versus your, your ego, right? And so you, you notice that your ego gets stirred up, but you continue to look at yourself and you continue to tell yourself that, that you love yourself and you just keep focusing on that. But if you do that every day for 2 weeks, I promise you, you're going to begin to soften. You're going to begin to shift. You're going to begin to feel more connected to yourself and more separate from your ego.

Yeah, I like that. I like that work that you're talking about because, um, I think it's really important that we understand that neither one of us is saying that the ego is our enemy, because I don't believe— I agree with you 100%. We can't get rid of our ego. We don't want to get rid of our ego because we cannot be human beings on this planet without an ego. But our ego is kind of like the overprotector. It's like, okay, you need to calm down, okay? You need to just take a, take a back seat, because our true self, you know, knows better. So we, we kind of integrate the ego. And, and as you were saying that, I'm like, I don't want to look at myself in the mirror. That sounds terrible. But it's the same thing when you talk to people about meditating. People say, I don't want to be alone with my thoughts for 5 minutes. Because, you know, my thoughts are crazy. You don't understand what my mind is like. But you've got to, you've got to face that uncomfortable thing to kind of, to kind of push through it, you know, and to say things like, you know, I love you to myself, or you're, you're worthy. And then think about, why does that make me so uncomfortable? You know, you could say it to somebody else, but can you say it to yourself?

Yeah, that's why it's so powerful because we don't, we don't do it. We don't, we just don't look at ourselves and we, it's an interesting thing how, you know, we just don't really talk to ourselves in a loving way. Or I often have clients say, it feels so weird to talk to myself. And this is what I say to them. You're talking to yourself all the time. It's just that you don't recognize it because it's so conditioned that it just flies by. It feels weird because you're now, you know, shifting it to be more positive. And so it sticks out. Only it's only uncomfortable because it's new. You're always talking to yourself. It's not weird to talk to yourself.

And you're probably calling yourself stupid and dumb and fat. You know, this is another thing that I realized a little while ago. I would say— I was saying terrible things to myself and things I wouldn't say to another person. So I stopped it. I was like, no, you can't. You can't say that to yourself. Because we, we believe it. And it's, it's, we, we, it's almost, we do, we have this mind, this thing inside of us that tells us what a terrible person that we are. And, and we can't stop it. So I love the fact that you're, you're helping people with really practical ways to do this, ways to start making that shift towards the higher self or towards the true self.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. It's so, it's so important. I mean, really, I want everyone to love themselves. I want everyone to be happy and at peace and to have the freedom from suffering because it's our divine right. We deserve that. And we, we think what an amazing world we would have if we were all walking around in that, you know, happy. It would just make our world such a much more pleasurable place to be.

Well, that's the other thing that, you know, because again, we might think that this is selfish. And again, from my tradition growing up, they would have said, oh, this is such a selfish thing. Because, you know, a lot of the Eastern traditions are about turning within. But the thing is, it's not a selfish act. It's actually a gift to the world. Because if you show up as a better person, and everybody shows up as a better person, we'll have a better world.

Yep, that's true. I mean, and the thing is, we are all connected, whether people believe that or not, which is why, you know, we impact each other so much. So it's like when you're around somebody who vibrates at a really high energetic level, they can literally lift somebody who's at a lower vibration up just by being in their presence. And that's because we're connected. So it's like, we are helping people, you know, it's like, and when we are shining our light, we're reminding people of their light or of who they are. Right?

Absolutely. So Stephanie, tell people where they can find you, where they can find out more about you, and just let people know how to connect with you.

Yeah, well, I have a website. And so Stephanie Grace, my name doesn't have an E on the end. So it's just www.stephaniegrace.com, S-T-E-P-H-A-N-Y A-N-I-G-R-A-C-E. And then I also am very active on Instagram, and you can find my Instagram by searching for Stephanie Grace, no E on the end. I do a Mindful Minute most days, either a video or a post, just to kind of help people, like we were talking about, stay on the path, to have a little, you know, a little reminder or daily inspiration. Um, yeah, and those are my, my main, my main ways. And then also, of course, you can buy my book, Creating Real Happiness A to Z, and that's available at most places now.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, Stephanie, it's been a pleasure meeting you. Anything you'd like to say before we wrap up today?

Gosh, well, it has been— I just— one of the great things about writing this book has been that I get to meet amazing people like you. You know, it's been so fun to come and, you know, talk with you. And it's my absolute passion to talk about this kind of stuff. So it's just such treat for me to come and talk with like-minded humans and to get this sort of message out in the world for others. And hopefully we are inspiring people and helping people to know like, oh yeah, I can do these small things and maybe begin to change my life, you know.

Absolutely. Well, have a great rest of your day.

Thank you. You too.

Thanks for listening to Grief to Growth. Brian D Smith hopes that you find this episode helpful. And will come back for future episodes. Brian D Smith's bestselling book, Grief to Growth: Planted, Not Buried, is a great resource for anyone who is coping with grief or knows someone who is. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support it, there are 3 things you can do to help. The first is to share the podcast with someone that you think it will help. The second is to go to iTunes, rate and review the episode. Episode. The third way you can support the podcast is by becoming a patron. Head over to www.patreon.com/grief2growth. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/grief, the number 2, growth, and sign up to make a small monthly donation. Patrons get access to exclusive bonus content and knowledge that you are helping to spread the message of grief to growth. For more about Brian D Smith and Grief 2 Growth, visit www.grief2growth.com.

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