Unlocking Autism's Voice- Laura Hirsch EP 400

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey there, welcome to Grief to Growth, where we explore the challenges of life, understand our purpose, and connect with the deeper aspects of our existence. Whether you're tuning in for the first time or you've been with us for a while, I'm glad you're here. I'm your host, Brian D Smith. And today we're joined by Laura Hirsch. Laura is an inspiring author and advocate whose work challenges the mainstream understanding of autism and communication. Her journey is deeply personal. Her son Trevor was diagnosed with regressive autism at the age of 3, and for many years he was a non-speaker. However, the story took an unexpected turn when Trevor discovered spelling to communicate, which is a revolutionary method that allowed him to express his thoughts through spelling. This breakthrough led to their co-authored book, More Than Meets the Eye, where Trevor shares with his journey about autism, but also his experiences as a musician, a horse whisperer, and even a medium. So we're gonna explore how this mother-son duo is giving a voice to the voiceless and actually changing misconceptions around nonverbal individuals. We'll also talk about Laura's earlier works, including a book called The Other Side of Autism and also Widowed Too Soon, uh, talking more about Laura's, uh, deeply moving journey, uh, through life and how her writing is empowering families especially people with autism or families of people with autism, to look at it through a new lens, to look at grief through a new lens. And Laura's dedication to health freedom activism, activism, and her holistic approach to caregiving for individuals with autism make her really an inspiring guest. So make sure you stay until the end to learn how we can understand more about autism, mediumship, and all those things. And then join us at the community, grieftogrowth.com/community, after— or slash community to continue the conversation after. And with that, I want to welcome Laura to the show.

Thank you, Brian. What a wonderful introduction. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, I'm really excited to have you here. We started talking before we started recording, and I wanted to get some of that down because you've really had a fascinating life and, and your experience with Trevor. So start wherever you'd like it, then tell us about your, your journey.

Sure. There's a lot to cover.

Yeah.

So, um, I'll start more at the beginning. Uh, you know, this podcast is about grief, and I lost my first husband. We were together for 8 years in a car accident when I was 27 years old, which led me down the path to wanting to know more about mediumship, after-death and near-death experiences. And I became a believer. I was raised Catholic in the Midwest. I didn't believe any of that stuff growing up. But once you lose somebody that's your best friend and soulmate, you change your perspective, and it just draws you to things you never would have explored before. So I start— I had a couple readings with some mediums after he passed, and going into it being a complete skeptic, and it really changed my life. And I've been going to see mediums for initially grief therapy for the last last 25 years or so. And then when my son was diagnosed with autism, um, I— they kept bringing up stuff about him and about how to help him, how to, you know, change his diet, do this, do that. Um, and so that led to my— so I wrote a book called Widow Too Soon that you mentioned, which was about my— the transformation and everything that happened with the grief process, including mediumship, because I think that's very healing for people. Um, to, to connect and have that spiritual connection and know that they're always around and they're always helping us and taking care of us still from where they're at. And then I ended up going to see a medium and spirit artist couple, Michael and Marty Perry, after that book came out, and they did the most amazing reading. And she draws people in spirit too, so she's a medium, she sees them and draws them, and she's drawn both my grandfathers at different points and we decided to do a book together about autism. It's like 27 chapters. It's not just dead people that I know. A lot of famous people also came through and gave us information, which is a little different because it's harder to validate something that you didn't experience. So they would give names and dates and places and things that I had to look up to validate that it was them. And super fascinating and very helpful, like confirmed what happened to my son and a lot of these kids and how to help them. So then my son, um, he's now 26, Trevor. And in 2021, um, I started taking him to piano lessons and singing lessons. And a friend of mine did it, and she thought, my son's— we consider him a non-speaker, but singing is a different part of the brain. So he's able to sing full songs and learn how to play his favorite song, Puff the Magic Dragon, and sing it. All by himself. It took, you know, less than a year, but he was able to do it. And he even sang in recitals in front of 100 people. I have it on my website, laurahirsch.com, the actual— I have a lot of videos of him doing a lot of things, spelling and doing all these things. But that was the first miraculous thing that happened. Then when we started doing, um, Spelling to Communicate, which is I'll show you what a letterboard looks like. I have one here. This is the laminated board. So it's basically A through Z and some symbols, and then on the back, it has the numbers. We started doing it on Zoom 3 years ago with a practitioner down in Southern California. And you read lessons to the person, and they do such a great job because they presume competence in nonspeakers. They don't talk down to them like they're a 2-year-old. They know how intelligent they are, and they give them a tool to basically get what's in their mind into their mouth, because that's truly what their disability is, apraxia. It's the inability to get what's in their brain into their mouth. It's a small motor movement deficit. So with Spelling to Communicate, it's taking speech into large motor movement using your hand to point to the letters. And that's why it's so successful. It seems silly and like super easy, but it's genius. And it was started by Elizabeth Vossler, um, and she has a healing center. She was a speech and language pathologist in Virginia. And I saw— I read a book called Underestimated with JB Hanley and his son Jamie, who are just like— Jamie's just like Trevor, a nonspeaker, and he learned how to do spelling to communicate. And I said, if he can do this and if Trevor can learn how to play the piano and sing, I know he can do this too. So we started right away. I had to get, you know, order the letter boards, and I became his they call it a CRP, Communication Regulation Partner. We did it over Zoom. And then once he became an open speller, which means I can just ask him anything and he can answer, um, that's when the floodgates opened with the stuff about mediumship and Horse Whisperer. So because he would just talk, tell me things. And so what happened was, um, with the Horse Whisperer, that's what he's on the COVID of the book on his horse Blackjack. He started riding horses a few years ago And we would— he would tell me afterward what he experienced, and he would always tell me that what his horse said to him telepathically. And I thought it was really cool. And then I knew it was really real when he, he told me that Blackjack was sad because Buck died. And Buck was another horse. No one told Trevor that Buck died. And then another horse passed away named Sully, and he said Blackjack is grieving because Sully died. Turns out he did. No one told him again. And then another— the third thing that really shocked me was that he spelled, um, today we talked about the fact that Nikki's pregnant with triplets, who's the lady that was the director at the time, and she told us she was gonna have to step down because she was having triplets. I mean, how random? Like, you can't make that up.

Yeah.

So he now rides another horse named Dude. He talks to Dude also, and they have these beautiful conversations, and there's about I think 20, there's 20-some episodes in the book of what he's told me that he spelled. Then we started, we, I always do alternative healing with him and I'm a healer myself. And we started going to these centers, healing centers, one's called the EE System or the Energy Enhancement System. And it's basically scalar technology and you just lay there and get a healing basically, whatever you need. And then the other one's called the tachyon chamber, and it's basically a chair that you lay in, and it's got like a pyramid and sacred geometry above you. And again, you just get into this really deep meditative state, and it's— they're both really awesome healing modalities. So then I would ask Trevor afterward, what did you experience? And he started telling me that he saw his angels, and he started telling me the names of people that have passed away that I know, like my dad. His other grandpa, my brother, and Darren, who's my first husband that passed, who he never met. Hmm. 3 years prior to Trevor being born. And so every time he would tell me what they would say, and it was just very heartwarming. He was just giving us messages from them. And again, he's a non-speaker, and he's spelling this to me, letter by letter. And just, wow, blown away. So I Then when we were doing spelling to communicate, I said, Trevor, tell me an altruistic thing you would like to do in your life. And he spelled, I would like to write a book with you about my life to inspire others. And it was his idea to write the book. And I said, well, what would you want the book to be called? And he spelled the name of the book, More Than Meets the Eye. Wow. That's a great title. So that's kind of the progression of the books. And he spelled to me before that he knew I, I wrote books and that I would tell his story.

Wow. I, I gotta tell you, that was, um, first of all, I got goosebumps, but I had never heard, um, autism described in that way before, that it's a motor skill issue. Um, because I think it's been— I know it's been a big mystery to us, like, you know, what's going on with them. And, and there's been research for years that has shown the people that have autism are autistic. I'm not sure what the terminology is, if you have it or are. But, um, we've known that they're, they're intelligent. We know that there's something going on. And I guess, you know, I did this first time I realized it's just a matter of making that connection between the brain and the mouth. Um, and that's why they're able— or he's able to spell but not able to speak. That's, uh, something that was— I didn't know that. It's wild.

Yeah. And that's— excuse me— that's the premise of S2C. That's spelling to communicate. S2C. That it's— they've been misunderstood and underestimated most of their life. And most of the kids like Trevor, you know, if you would look at them and they're doing their little stimming and vocal vocalizations, you wouldn't think that they're highly intelligent. But every single speller that I know is highly intelligent and can communicate through the letter boards. And there's actually a movie called Spellers and it's on YouTube for free, and it showcases 8 spellers like Trevor and their, their similar paths, and it tells all about Spelling to Communicate. So I would highly recommend anybody interested in, in Spelling to Communicate to watch that documentary. It's based on the book Underestimated, and JB are actually in it, and Elizabeth Bosser. I mean, it's, it's what inspired me the book. And then when the movie came out, oh man, I cried the whole time. Yeah. But it's changing people's lives. And it's just so many people are getting into it now and giving their, their loved ones their voice back that they never had. And a lot of them are kids in their 20s, or had access to communication before.

Yeah.

Looked at in a completely different light than who they really are.

Yeah, I absolutely 100%. So I'm glad that we're getting that message out. It's really interesting because you're the third person I've talked to just in the last few months who has a non-verbal— one, one woman had— it was her son, but another one, but she's a teacher and she was teaching this kid named Asher. Her name is Jess Curzon, so I don't know if you've heard of her or not, but she's, uh, she's British. And this kid came to her when he was like 6 years old and he started communicating with her telepathically. And they've— he's in his, I think, 30s now, or late 20s, and they still have a relationship. But he, he did learn a little bit of speech, but then he stopped speaking to her. He only, he only communicates with her telepathically now. So I think it's really interesting that there seems to be a connection between not being able to speak and developing that other way of communicating.

Yeah, I actually do know who she is. Um, I follow the that's a podcast called The Telepathy Tapes, and she was on the teacher's edition of that show. Okay, be guests on the show for her second, um, season. And Trevor actually spelled for her. Kai Dickens is the lady who does The Telepathy Tapes, and she asked spellers to help and answer certain questions. They're all going to answer, and I don't have them in front of me, but one of the things that Trevor spelled It was, what do you want people to know about who you are? And he spelled, I am an intelligent man with remarkable spiritual gifts.

Yeah.

And you know what he wants for himself and for society and the education system. And so yeah, I do, I'm familiar with her. But if, if you're interested in telepathy, they had a really great scientific episode on recently, and it talked all about the history of the science of testing telepathy with people and animals. Really incredible show.

So when did you first realize that he was able to communicate with you telepathically?

Um, actually, the telepathy piece just came out recently. Um, he— it's— his gifts were more in alignment with talking to his horse and then with people that are passed. And recently, since I started watching the telepathy tapes, I started testing him. I would think of a number in my head and say it like 3 times and then hand him the board and he would get it 100% every time. Then I started doing it with single words, then longer words, and long, then sentences. So I've only tried it like 5 times to be honest with him. But just yesterday he spelled, um, 2 million was the number I thought of. And then I said, you ride dude on Thursday. And he spelled you ride dude on Thursday. Like it's getting longer and longer. And all I do is say it in my head. So that's been a newer revelation that he's able to do that, and it's pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah. So has he, um, have you talked to, or have you, have you communicated with him about like, um, like soul planning or anything like that? Or, you know, maybe why that he's having this experience? Stay with us, we'll be right back. You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief 2 Growth. I hope to see you there.

He did bring up something once. It actually had to do with Darren. So Darren came through to him, and I said, how long has Darren been one of your angels? And he spelled, since before I was born. Oh, so did you have a past life together? And he said, we've had many past lives together. And he's— I said, anything else? And he said, he's been my number one protector. And I mean, that just opens up a whole other can of worms, so to speak, of what— how we choose our life and who we choose to be in it.

Right.

So I said, did you know that you were going to have a pretty tough life and you needed a lot of help from the other side? And he said, yes. Yeah, plan this together, that they— this was going to be their relationship in his— this lifetime for him. Yeah, I mean, I think he, he's so proud of the fact that he wrote a book with me, and he wants others to do the same and follow in his footsteps and like see that anything's possible, and he wants to help other people like him. So, and that's why I'm here and just sharing his message. To get other spellers. Time for a quick break.

Make sure to like and subscribe to continue to receive great content from Grief 2 Growth.

And now back to the episode.

Yeah, so how does that make you— you kind of said it, but I just want to explain a little bit more how that makes you feel to know that your, your husband who passed, and as you said, widowed too young. I mean, that's 27, is that's really hard. Um, but to know that that kind of set this whole thing in motion and that now he's an angel for, for Trevor.

Yeah, and, uh, a lot of people are his angels. And actually, this is another really interesting story I didn't tell you. Um, my sister passed away during the writing of the book, and she, um, lived in Chicago, so, uh she got really sick and just had to be put in a medically induced coma and never came out of it. And she used to teach Trevor ABA therapy. She came to Nevada and lived with us for 2 years and got trained to do what's called applied behavioral analysis and was one of Trevor's tutors. So they were pretty close, you know, they had a close relationship and she always loved him and was, you know, just adored him. And so after she passed, my mom, I got her to go get to Chicago to say goodbye, and I had to take care of Trevor, so I didn't get to go. But when the day we came home— well, she— we came home, and then the day that she passed, um, was like Thanksgiving, like right around Thanksgiving. And all of a sudden, we had all these robins show up in our backyard. We never hardly ever get robins. And I was just like looking in the outside, and there's a bunch of them in the tree, a bunch of them in the birdbath, a bunch of them in the bird feeders. And we commented on it And, um, I asked Trevor after she passed, I said, so Auntie Kim is now with the angels, um, can you talk to her? And he said yes. And I said, what does she have to say? And she says, um, like, I'm doing— I'm fine, I'm doing okay, and I sent the robins to Mom. Wow, like, how awesome is that? Like, we're seeing the robins, and Trevor, a non-speaker, spells that my sister sent the robins. Yeah, mom who lives with me. And how comforting.

Yeah, yeah, that, that's the thing. It does— I mean, the world seems sometimes like it's just out of order and it's, and it's crazy and things happen and we think this, this can't be right. But, you know, seeing the, the connections, you know, and, and seeing the, the pattern and seeing where— what this is leading to, it just, it gives me a lot of comfort. Hopefully people listening is going to give them same amount of comfort because I'm just like, I'm blown away by it.

Yeah, it's— and I mean, there's a lot of different phenomenon that happen around when people pass. Like, we had, um, the— I think it was right around the day she passed also. I have this in our loft, we have this LED book— it's a TV stand and it has LED lights on it, and they kept going on by themselves. And what the heck, who keeps turning these lights on? And then the TV went on by itself a few times, and I just kind of knew it was her, you know, messing with me. And then I was telling you yesterday, I went and had a reading with the medium at a psychic fair here in Reno, and I never had one with this person before. And so my dad brought through my sister, and she admitted that she was messing with the lights in the house.

Wow.

Yeah, so just a— another huge validation that, okay, that's her. And then she brought through my brother who passed my brother-in-law who passed came through. So it was just, it's, to me, it's very comforting. It's very natural to be able to still connect with them when they're no longer here. And I mean, I have story after story after story I could tell you, but yeah.

Well, you know, it's interesting because we use that, you know, no longer here, and they're no longer here with us physically, but they're clearly still here, you know, still very much present, still active, involved in our lives. And, and how long has it been since your husband passed?

Uh, it was in 1995.

Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's funny because we, you know, we tend to think that, well, they're gonna move along, you know, they're gonna lose interest, you know. Sometimes people think that. And I was just listening to something the other day about— I was listening to stuff about the afterlife, but they were saying after so many years, you know, they're not as close with us or something like that. And for me, it's been 9 and a half years since my daughter passed. But I'm like, I still feel like she's as present now as she was, you know, the day that she transitioned. And I'm sure it's the same case with you when they still have purpose to be here.

Yep. And it's another interesting thing happened. It's not in the book because it happened after the book. So Darren, his, and his best friend's name was Darren also, and his wife's name was Karen. So Darren and Karen, I have not talked to them really hardly much at all since he passed for the first few years, but then I moved and we kind of lost touch. Well, their son is a firefighter here in, in Southern Lake Tahoe. Mm-hmm. We're coming out to visit him and we got together. We went to lunch and Trevor was at home just getting upset about something and my mom was here with them. Later, it turns out that Darren was giving him messages for Darren and Karen. And it was just so cool. And I shared it with them, and they thought it was amazing that, like, they knew— he knew they were here. And he's like, I'm so glad you and Laura are connecting, and you guys should move here. And they were considering moving here, moving somewhere else, but this was one of the places that they were considering moving.

Wow.

And he's like, I'm sorry if I spooked you, Trevor. I just really wanted to get a message to my friends.

Wow. Wow. So yeah, still, still involved and still, you know, still caring about what's going on. Now, I, I know Trevor was diagnosed with regressive autism, and for those of us who don't know, what does regressive autism mean?

Uh, I'm just going to be blunt— vaccine injured.

Okay.

At 1 year old, he had 60 words, he did everything, had all of his milestones ahead of schedule, and then after his 1-year shots of the MMR and chickenpox on the same day, he stopped talking. He stopped using a fork. I mean, how do you lose motor skills? His first birthday, he was eating his, you know, I have videos of his birthday at a fork using it. Second birthday, using his hand. And it was just— we didn't know what happened. We didn't know for a long time.

Right.

And once I figured it out, I changed everything about his diet. I cleaned up everything. I went totally holistic, and we did all kinds of therapies and treatments, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy, homeopathy helped him tremendously. But the one thing that he never got back was language. And he had some words, he had some language. He, you know, did applied behavioral analysis for a year, for his entire life, where you sit one-on-one and work with somebody. So he was taught the same thing over and over and over and over. And here's this super intelligent human being that's just going along with the program because no one knew how smart he is.

Wow.

And if you read the book, like, the, the lessons that we did are age-appropriate. They're probably more college age, a lot like words that most people probably can't spell. He just knows how to spell. I don't know how he knows how to spell. I don't know. The craziest part too is once you get into prior knowledge questions, so it starts out in Spelling to Communicate with just spelling words that were in the lesson. And then like you read a paragraph and then you ask them questions, some that are known, some that are prior knowledge. First it's just spelling words, but then words— stuff that's in the lesson. Then when you get to prior knowledge, it's something that's related to the lesson but wasn't talked about. And it's just things in life that you would know being a human being, like name another Great Lake, name another a mountain range? Who is a member of the Beatles? And just stuff like that. And that's where you know that this is legitimate, because no, it wasn't in the lesson. He just knew this. And then they start asking open questions, which are his thoughts.

Okay.

And then creative writing, which is longer, you know, thoughts like, tell me your opinion on this.

Yeah.

And you know, now that he's open— for a little while we didn't even We didn't even do lessons because he said, I already know how to spell, Mom. I don't need to. But it was less things that he wasn't interested in. So then there's a really great practitioner. Actually, her son Aiden is in the Spellers movie. Her name's April, and she writes lessons about music and dance. And he's really interested in that because he's a musician. So he started doing spelling again with me to all these music lessons. And he just, he comes upstairs in his room like that because he wants to do it again. Yeah, it's like at first, once they get there, you know, then you can kind of pick and choose, or they can even pick and choose what they want to learn about.

Wow. Yeah, it's, you know, this is again crazy. I just interviewed someone, it's not even out yet. It was like 2 weeks ago. And her son was, was vaccine injured. And I think he was around the age of 1. And so he never learned to write or to walk and and couldn't speak. So, um, yeah, that's just, I don't know, coincidence, synchronicity, or whatever, but I just, I just interviewed her and it'll be out, it'll be out soon.

Oh wow, I'll have to listen to that.

So what is, what is Trevor's life like on a day-to-day basis now?

I like to say he's living his best life now. He's not in school anymore, so he can kind of do what he wants, and he always tells me the things that he wants to do. Um, so he sleeps in late and we go get lunch or whatever. We sometimes just go visit the horses. He usually rides once a week. He likes to just go see them, and he can talk to them telepathically, just even when he's not riding them. And I say, so what'd the horses say today? And, you know, he's always telling me what they, what they say, and he's just standing there near them. It's very, very cool. But, um, you know, we go on trips. We go up to Lake Tahoe. He loves Lake Tahoe. He likes to swim. Um, just doing things that he likes to do and enjoy. And then we usually come home and do spelling to communicate, or play the piano and sing, because we have a piano here at the house. And usually once a week we'll sing— he usually sings Puff the Magic Dragon twice, and then he and I sing like 3 or 4 songs of his choosing together that are recorded in the piano on a stick. So his teacher, um, had a piano called a Clavinova, and so do we. So you can take a stick and record it on one end and then put it down in the piano on the other end. Yeah, the voice and the music. So then we can just hit the button and sing with her. It's really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. So he's just, you know, living his best life and trying to inspire others.

Yeah. Did he ever— have you discussed with him? You were talking about the lessons before, and I can only imagine how frustrating that must be. For somebody who's intelligent but not verbal? And did they ever say, like, you know, did he talk about being frustrated in the past? Or—

I asked him, what was life like for you before and after spelling to communicate? Spelling, I was so frustrated. Afterward, I am finally free.

Yeah, yeah. So this understanding of autism as a, as a motor issue as opposed to, uh cognitive issue. Um, is that, is that understood by medicine now, or is that something still not generally accepted?

Um, it's starting to get out there. Um, for instance, Trevor's functional neurologist, Dr. Randall Gates, he's been seeing Trevor since he was 15, mostly because of seizures. He started having seizures when he was 15, and he helped us tremendously with that. And I ended up actually working for him as an assistant for 3 years. And he has seen Trevor's whole journey through being a non-speaker to now spelling on a letterboard. We took him in for a visit and Trevor said he wanted to bring that letterboard to spell something to Dr. Gates. And he spelled to him, thank you for believing in me. I love you. And Dr. Gates started crying. He's just this big, like 6'5", like athletic kind of guy. And he just was in tears. And so he actually ended up doing the foreword to our book. He's seen just how different— and he says, I always knew that Trevor had some special gifts, and I just— it's so great to see them now. And he's changed his complete attitude on non-speakers. And like everybody is, once you see it, you can't not see it.

Yeah. So, um, so Trevor spells with you with, with the board, and it's, it's not electronic or anything. Is anybody working on a way to make that easier so he could communicate with others?

Yeah, so some spellers are using keyboards now so they can type what they're spelling or whatever and then hit play and it's— it says what they spelled.

Okay.

So that's, uh, not everybody wants to do that. I've asked Trevor before if he wanted to learn how to type and he knows how to type, but it's actually more motor planning. So just, there's 26 choices on the letterboard and there's like over 100 on a keyboard.

Right.

Plus you have the feedback from the keys. So that's, so it's like a seesaw. Like if the cognitive, the cognitive's higher when the motor is lower. And basically, so when there's more motor choices, then there's the cognitive has to work a little harder. So he did try a handheld keyboard for a while and he pref— he said he just prefers the letterboard. And I— so 26 letters equals infinite possibilities is a saying in STC.

Yeah.

So some kids never, like, do advance from that because they choose not to. There is, however, some new technology that's coming out where it's— you can do it, um, I don't— I forget what it's called, but it's on the IASC website, which is i-asc.org. That's the Spelling to Communicate website, and they have all the science on there. Where they use a headset, um, where you can use your eyes to point to the letters instead of a hand, right? So there's a lot of new technology coming out also that's going to help our spellers communicate so that you could even bring it to a doctor's office and have them— because I just bring the letterboard and he just spells to me, right? But to get other people to be able to spell with them.

Yeah, I was curious about that because I know people that are paraplegics can use their eyes. And I have a friend that, um, she had ALS, and she would, you know, she wrote a book. And it was funny, kind of funny, because when people are asking her— she was asking for advice for the titles, and she was going to say, "I wrote this with my effing eyes. You should read it with yours," because she got to the point where she could only use her eyes to communicate. But, uh, that technology allowed her to write a book, and it's a fantastic book. But, uh, hopefully we can free people up with whatever works for them. If the spelling board works for Trevor, then, you know, that's what that's appropriate. But it's really great to see people breaking free.

Yeah, his brother actually showed interest, Damon, he's 3 years younger, of wanting to spell with him too. So I'm going to teach him how to do it. So it's not just me that can spell with them. So we'll see where that goes. I have to do some training with them first. But like, since he's open already, it's not like new people starting together, like when I started with Trevor, It was a lot of teaching me how to, you know, hold the board and what to do and what to say. Flip. And when you actually, when you first start, there's a set of 3 boards that you use and you're— there's only 8 choices on each board. So you're flipping through 3 boards trying to like— it's a lot of work. Trevor got through the 3 boards in about a month. So then we were on a 26 board, which has— it's a little different. It's a stencil. Um, this is called a laminate board, the one I showed you. The stencil is, uh, It's got the A through Z with— you can poke through the letters. So they usually use a pencil or their finger and poke through the letter at first until they get more fluent. And then you jump up to the laminate board. Some people stay on the stencil board too. So it's all individualized.

Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds like it's still a process of learning that it's a skill that has to be learned.

Right. So it's like learning anything, like how to ride a bike, how to drive a car. It's creating and myelinating new pathways, new neuronal pathways in the brain. And once they're there, they're permanent, you know?

Yeah.

Permanent.

So, and you, and you, we talked about earlier, you just, we kind of touched on it, that Trevor's able to sing because that's a different, it's a different thing. And I know, again, a little bit related to what I, what I know about, I know like a lot of times people who stutter might have tremendous stutters, but they can actually sing and not stutter at all.

Correct. Yeah, so Dr. Gates, um, said that exact same thing. He talked about Mel Tillis, who had a stutter, but he was a beautiful singer.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's just a different part of the brain, singing, than speaking. So that's how he was able to access that, you know, singing, because that part of the brain wasn't damaged, I guess. So he even sings like— he is not monotone like his speaking voice. He can you know, go up and down the scale and sings on key and, you know, plays the piano. That's motor movement too. So it was remarkable. His whole— the last 5 years of his life have been just a whirlwind of just showing us who he is and who he's always been.

Right, exactly, who he's always been. So what advice would you have for parents of nonverbal children? Because again, it seems like the understanding that you have is not commonly known or widely held. So for anybody that's listening or anybody that knows someone that has a non-verbal child, what, what would you want to say to them?

I would very really encourage them to watch the Spellers movie, first of all. Um, it's very informative. It says a lot more about the process, and you can see it, you know, on the, on the movie. And it's 8 different kids doing it. Super inspiring. Um, there's a few websites, uh, there's actually— there, it's kind of branched off now from just the I Ask Spelling to Communicate. There's now a Spellers Movement, um, there's a Speller Center in San Diego and there's one in Tampa. And, uh, they used to do— the, the ladies that run it used to do Spelling to Communicate, but now they've incorporated other motor, um, treatments like ocular motor, like working with developmental optometry and motor movement like exercise. So it's not just the spelling. So there's ways that you can work with your child yourself, like we did on Zoom. I did it all myself, but people can take their child to a place and have a practitioner work with them, or if there's a practitioner in your area. So there's lists on both of the websites. So it's www.i-asc.org. That's the Spelling to Communicate um, original center in Virginia. And then the speller is spellers.com, and that will also list, um, Spelling to Communicate practitioners in every state.

Yeah.

Um, you can start a lot younger than my son started. I mean, this wasn't available when Trevor was younger, and he, he's even spelled— I really hope they get Spelling to Communicate in schools. Yeah, that's another place that needs practitioners is in the school districts. But, uh, that movie is phenomenal. And those two websites you can go to to learn more, um, my website, uh, www.laurahirschauthor.com. I have a lot of resources on my website. I have videos where you can see Trevor and I spelling. Even the video of him spelling to Dr. Gates is on there. His videos of him playing the piano and singing, um, He did a Christmas pageant type thing where he and I sang together, and he has a Santa hat on and a Grinch t-shirt, and he sang an entire, uh, The Rainbow Connection into the microphone. Looked like a little pop star. Like, you would never know that he's a non-speaker. And he was actually featured on— they call it the Neurolyrical Cafe, and it features people that are non-speakers that write songs and sing and do artistic things like that, write poetry. And it just features a lot of kids like Trevor. And they have it once a month on, uh, with I Ask. They really support the community and presume competence in our kids.

Yeah, yeah. I— well, I think that's really important, is presuming competence, to not think that because someone is not able to speak, that doesn't mean that they don't understand, that they don't know what's going on around them. Which I think is a mistake that a lot of us still make. Um, and so it's great that, you know, we're getting that message out there. I remember hearing— this was a few years ago, I don't remember the details— but it was a, it was a girl, I think she was about 14, and she was autistic. And it might have been, um, speaking or spelling to communicate, but she had gotten some sort of way of getting her voice out. And everybody was amazed at all this, you know, the world that was going on inside and how how intelligent she was and how, I know, are imaginative and everything, like, you know, like, like other people are, but just not, not verbal. So I think this is really great that you've discovered this and are sharing with other people. And I would imagine that if people did start working with it earlier, might be a little bit easier, because, you know, as we get older, it's— I know it's harder to learn a second language, for example. Um, so it might be better if people could, could get to it earlier.

Yeah. Um, I don't know if you're familiar with Del Bigtree, but it's a show called The High Wire, and they had the spelling panel on there when the book first came out. I think when the movie first came out. Yeah, it was the movie. And they had the spellers that were in the movie on the panel on his show, and he asked each of them, when could you have started to do spelling to communicate, or how old were you when you learned to read? And then how old would— could you have started to do this? And they all said like 2 or 3 or 4 years old when I started school. And then I had Trevor answer all the questions that he presented to the panel. And he said he could read at 2 years old. He learned it from books because I read to him all the time. And he said that he could have started this when he was in like, I think he said 8, like at second grade. Yeah. So this is available now when it wasn't. I mean, this has only been available for, I don't know, 5 years, 8 years, not long. Yeah, but we kind of got in on it early, like, compared to most people still don't even know about it.

Yeah, you know, as I'm sitting here, I'm just— it's so— it's hard to believe that as much as we think we know with the medicine and stuff, that something that, you know, you explained it to me and I'm like, oh yeah, that makes perfect sense, and it's still not still not common knowledge, and it's, uh, it's really important, you know, it's really important that people understand this.

Yeah, to see it with my own eyes. I mean, we work together every day, um, for a while. Well, when I was working for Dr. Gates, I couldn't work with him every day, but once I, I had to become his host— what they call a host home provider in Nevada— because my mom was watching him, but she had started to lose her eyesight, so she couldn't drive him anywhere anymore. So I had to become the host home provider because I couldn't be the guardian and the host home provider. So His dad was the guardian. Now I am again because they switched the laws here. Anyway, that's a different story. But once I started working with him every day, and that's like an hour a day, you're not sitting there doing it all day long. He just blossomed and took off. And I would call my friend Mary, the one who helped us get into piano, and I'd have Trevor stories every day for her. I'm like, oh my God, you're not going to believe what Trevor just spelled. She's like, oh my God. And she's like, you have to stop being surprised. And I'm like, I'll never stop being surprised because I've met a new person. Yeah, I didn't even know who my son was his whole life until now.

Yeah, let's talk about it a little bit because I think resources are really important, um, if you don't mind. You mentioned host home provider, you mentioned guardian. What is, what is that? What does that involve?

Oh, so that's just once when someone needs a legal guardian. Every state's different. Um, someone has to be appointed as the legal guardian, and in Nevada, um, I was his legal guardian since he was 18. Then they had this new program that came out called a host home provider where the state basically pays— and it's not in every state, it's certain states— pays somebody to take care of the person.

Right.

That was my mom for 3 years because at the time they didn't allow one person to be both.

Right, right.

And they— once she couldn't drive, I had his dad, Trevor's dad, become the guardian for 1 year, and then I was the host home provider. Then they allowed both. So we both are now his guardians. Yeah, it was host home provider. But it's been the best thing ever for him and for me because I've been able to work with him every day. I've been able to take him places and, and be with him. And it's been just amazing to see his progress and just who he is.

Yeah, well, I wanted to bring that up because sometimes there are resources available to us that we're not aware of. And I've heard a little bit about— and again, it's Unfortunately, it's state by state a lot of times, but sometimes if you have someone with a severe disability, they will allow you to— they will provide for you to stay with them. And I think that's so needed. It's so important. So I want to let people know, check out, see if that's available to you.

Yeah, if they have a regional center, a lot of states have like a regional center and they have a person that is assigned to them. They can ask them because a lot of times they don't tell parents that it's available. I didn't find out. I found out from another parent. Mm-hmm. And I told some of my friends, they didn't know about it. So there are sometimes, um, resources available. I think, well, Dungarvin is who we go through. If you just look up Dungarvin, it shows the states that the programs are available in.

Okay.

Post-home provider benefits, and it's usually done with through their Medicaid.

Yeah. Now we talked about your, your husband Darren and Trevor having this, this arrangement. How do you feel that you and Trevor— what was your arrangement like in terms of this life?

That's a good question. I've never asked him that. I mean, I would assume that we were— we had past lives together for me to choose to come in as his mother in this lifetime and have this be such a challenge for both of us. But now it's just It's come full circle, and all the struggles we had gone through over the years, um, just not that they go away, but it makes everything worth it to just see him come into his, his true essence as a human and what he came here to do. And I feel blessed that I was able to be that support person for him. And, you know, we'll see where it goes, but the Yeah, I, I never thought this would ever happen in a million years, that this would be a way I would be able to communicate with my son.

Yeah, well, I'm really glad that you found it. I just, I find it's really interesting. Um, I've had experience with people that have had children that, um, required their care, you know, for, for the rest of their lives or whatever. And sometimes people look on the outside will think, oh, that's a terrible burden to have, and you know, they'll feel sorry for the people. But, and I don't want to speak for you, but I can say almost everybody, everybody else I've talked to, and I'll let you speak for yourself, it's been like, no, this is a great blessing. This is, this is really— and I've seen how it's changed people's lives in a positive way.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, he is just the most angelic human, just kind. I can't even tell you, like, his essence is just so pure. And so innocent, and it just— but he's so— he calls himself a light worker.

Oh, does he?

Yeah, he said it a few times, and I, I can see that. And he's got a lot of spiritual gifts that I didn't know about, and I wouldn't have known until he started spelling. Every time we go to— like, we just went down to the EE system, it's in Gardnerville, a couple days ago, and I said, you know, what did you experience in there today? And he spelled, you know, I saw green and purple tints, and I left my body. I went out of my body. Where did you go? And he said, heaven. And I said, well, what's that like? And he spelled, spelled miraculous.

Wow.

So he's, he's spelled about heaven before, like that. And that's, he's said that he's gone out of his body before. And so he's not just telepathically talking, I think physically, it's like a dream state. Like you go there, you see around, you know. And he has— he's spelled once, you know, there are colors here that we don't have on Earth. So it's just so interesting to just pick his brain and ask him all these questions. Like, I don't think another normal spelling partner would think to ask somebody these questions. But because of my background with mediumship, with, you know, grief, and knowing that he's tapped into that world, I'm so Fascinated. I just like can't wait to ask him more things.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and I, again, I think, you know, by not being— or, or being verbal sometimes gets in the way, right? So we're always trying to become more mindful and to quiet our minds and to, you know, to meditate and all that stuff. But when you're not able to speak, I would imagine that you're able to probably turn inward a lot easier and slow your thoughts down and reach that level that most of us struggle to reach.

Yeah, I think he and a lot of other kids just like him have been doing this their whole life. They had to learn that skill, like they weren't connecting with people here, so they had to connect somewhere else. And he has spelled that to me. He said that he's been— and a couple other spellers, like on the telepathy tapes, have said that they go to this place in a different state of consciousness that they call the hill, and where they all get together and talk telepathically to one another. And share things, like teach each other things, right? Trevor said, I've been doing this most of my life, and there are like— I think he spelled 500,000 people that go to the hill, and he does it when he's sleeping.

Oh wow.

So I mean, there's different levels of consciousness that I think we're just learning about, that, um, these kids have been able to do this their whole life, even As a child, I remember he would laugh. I'd be giving him his bottle and he'd look up at the ceiling and just start laughing hysterically like he saw something up there. And it was— I, I'd look and I didn't see anything. And finally I asked— he was playing peekaboo with his little Elmo and laughing— and I go, who, who's up there? What are you laughing at? And he said, Darren, like Darren, like with a W. And he was 2 years old. He hardly had had any words anymore because he lost most of them, he'd say like, Momo, Baba, Dada, like he'd repeat syllables.

So yeah, I just— you said Darren. He had never met Darren. Yeah. Wow.

When he was a little kid, he showed that he was connecting with him somehow, right? Right. But I didn't know how much that connection involved until he started spelling.

That's wild. I know, it's funny. This is total aside, but we were on the couch with my dog the other day and she just starts staring off into space and panting. And I'm like, she does it sometimes. And I've— other people have had dogs, you've probably seen it too. Your dog looks like they're looking at somebody. And I think that, again, that nonverbal— we develop telepathy. And, and I know, I know kids come in with it, you know, they come in seeing angels and guides and stuff like that. And then we kind of, you know, talk them out of it.

Right, exactly. Until someone tells them, no, you're seeing things, that's not there, there's nothing there. But I never did that with him. I always encouraged that. Um, one interesting thing happened. We were in what's called the tachyon chamber, and, um, the lady that, um, has it had just put a tapestry on the wall behind where the person's head is, and it was of Archangel Michael, and it was new. And Trevor didn't— I didn't think he saw it, but he had gone in the other room when I was saying goodbye to her. And I'm like, oh, that's a really cool tapestry. And I go, is that Archangel Michael? And she goes, yeah, I just put that up. It's beautiful. So I get home and I asked Trevor what he, um, experienced in the tachyon chamber. And he said, I saw my angels. And I assumed he was going to say the dead people that he knows. And he spelled Archangel Michael. And I said, really? And he said, yes, Archangel Michael is protecting me. So, I mean, he didn't hear us talking about the tapestry because he was in the other room, and I texted her and I told her what he spelled. She's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Yeah.

So he also, you know, sees archangels, and he's even talked about extraterrestrials, believe it or not.

Oh really?

Yeah, yeah. He spelled like, I saw extraterrestrials, and I go, what do they look like? And he said, they look like us. Except they're not from, from Earth. And then he did spell the Pleiades like that later on, like, where are they from? And they're here to help heal and help heal the Earth. So I've heard other people that can do that telepathically too. It just kind of shocked me that when he said that. But I like the show Ancient Aliens, and so he's overheard that in the background probably a lot, so he probably has explored that You know? Yeah.

So, yeah, well, you know, they're, um, I'm hearing that there are the younger generations coming in now, they're a lot more connected still to the other side. And people call them star children and different, different terms. And so I think that, that for some reason, the level of Earth seems to be getting kind of elevated. And a lot of these, these kids around, around his age, Trevor's age, are here. They're here to teach us. And, you know, there's— and as long as we listen, right? As long as we find a way to listen. So it's, it's great. I'm really excited about the work that you, that you guys are doing together and the word that you're getting out, uh, to help, help all of us and help a lot of, a lot of kids.

Thank you. That's what he wants to do. So I, I feel like the scribe for him, like I'm his voice.

Yeah, yeah. It's, again, it's a fascinating partnership. Um, you know, you, you're, you are, you're, you're his, his assistant, but you're also, you guys are on this journey together, right? And he's, and he's here teaching you. So, um, it's kind of interesting because, you know, we talked about Jess earlier and, you know, she was teaching this kid Asher supposedly, but then he ended up teaching her so much more, you know, than she taught him. So, um, it's always a give and take.

Another teacher that was on that same episode of the Telepathy Tapes with them, her name's Susie Miller, and we worked with her actually for a while. She did some, actually some healing with Dr. William Tiller on families. Like every day they'd get this healing. And so for a year we did that, but then we also worked with her because she has a book called Awesomism, and it's talking about that she talks to the kids telepathically and collectively. And so I played the episode with the teachers, and I asked Trevor, I said, do you remember talking to any of those people that were on there? And he spelled yes, Susie Miller. I remember her talking to me telepathically.

Wow. Wow.

And I shared it with her, and she was like, oh my God, that's so cool. And it was years ago, many years ago.

Wow, awesome.

There's everything. He's like a little elephant.

Yeah. Well, Laura, it's, it's been really great getting to know you, uh, and you know, you've got several books or 3 books that we mentioned. So I want you to mention those again and tell people how they can contact you.

Sure. Um, so everything's on my website. My other son Damon made it for me. It's really awesome. So it's a collection of all my books and all the videos and, uh, resources and everything for Spelling to Communicate. Um, so it's again www.laurahirsch— and it's H-I-R-S-C-H— author.com. So all my books that I've ever written are on there, which is Widowed Too Soon. There was one called Foundation of Discovery, also about autism. The one I talked about with the mediums and the spirit artists, that's called The Other Side of Autism. And then I worked with a group called the Thinking Moms Revolution, and we were all very outspoken bloggers, writers about what happened to our kids and how we helped them get better. And we had a grant program. So there's the books. The Team TMR is the one I was in, and my nickname was Oracle. Funny, someone named me, I didn't name myself. And all the blogs I wrote for them are available on my website. So yeah, I've been an advocate for our kids for a really long time. And now I'm more of an advocate because I've seen the miracle that happened with my son that can happen with so many kids like him.

Well, you're doing great work. And I want to thank you for it and thank Trevor for also for what Trevor's doing for all of us.

Okay, I will do that. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was wonderful.

Great, great to meet you. Have a great afternoon.

Thanks, you too.

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