Unlocking the SPIRITUAL World: Shauna Domalain's Incredible Gift for Grieving Mothers!

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet.

I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you.

I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

Today's interview is with Shana Domalain. And Shana is a person whose son Jack is in spirit.

Shana has learned to communicate with Jack across the veil. And she teaches mothers how to communicate with their children across the veil as well.

So I'm I'm really excited for you to hear this one, and I hope you enjoy.

Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got me Shawna DeMellon. She is the creative founder of the Growing Up in Heaven program for mothers who want to connect, communicate with, communicate with their children on the other side. Her personal journey through the loss of her son has paved the path for mothers to move from grief to relief as they learn to make the connection with their children in heaven. Shawna is a powerhouse in the spiritual communication realms, which you'll find out when you meet her in a second. Her firsthand experience with loss and grief allows her to share a wealth of soulful and heartfelt tools and support on how to navigate loss and find true meaning in life again. She runs her business from her home in Canada. She's the host of the Oracle of Light podcast. She enjoys kickboxing and working out, spending time in the mountains with family and friends, and her continued quest for the perfect cup of coffee. So I'd like to welcome Shauna to Grief 2 Growth.

Oh, thank you so much, Brian. Thank you for having me. This is, this is a real pleasure, a real honor. I'm excited to share insight and connect in.

Well, I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Some people we just got, we just kind of met. You're just like a powerhouse, like it says in the bio that I read. It's really, it's really fun to meet you. And we do share something in common, both having been parents who have had children who have transition before we did. So first thing I want to ask you is to tell me about your son Jack.

Absolutely. My son Jack would have been 9 this year in the physical reality. About, about 10 years ago, my husband and I had decided to have another baby. And it was interesting because my daughter Emma, who is now 17, she would run around the house and say, where is my brother? How come he's not in your tummy? When is he going to be here? And we'd already named him, we, you know, it was like, yep, we're having a boy, his name is Jack. And it was just so exciting. And so those 6 months, you know, sort of before we started the in vitro process were just— it was like he was already a part of our lives. It was just so fantastic. He was in our dreams. And, you know, my daughter Emma talked to him and we just felt him all around. And we had begun the in vitro process. And as several, several, you know, couples understand, things just didn't go according to plan. And we lost Jack. And that was our— that was our chance. And so it was, it was just like an instant heartbreak. Like, it's just like, you know, I've lost loved ones before and fur babies. And, you know, losing a child is— there's no guidebook for that. Like, it's just— and even with my background, and as a medium, you know, people would say, you can connect with him, we just talk to him, what's the big deal? And, you know, it was interesting because I— there was this, this this talk from Brené Brown. And she said, you have to surround yourself with people who have earned the right to hear your story. And so after I'd lost Jack, you know, I would share it with people and they'd say, well, what's the big deal? Just, you know, go, you know, adopt, or, you know, you could try again, or, you know, you could find a new husband, or, you know, they had all these different insights. And I found it just sort of catapulted me even deeper into the grief. It would take I want to say a good 2 or 3 years, um, I was sort of in— it started to feel like Groundhog Day. It was like I get up, get dressed, put the coffee on, take Emma to school, come home. I just— it just— there was no joy in my life. There was just— there was nothing. And I wasn't able to connect with Jack during this whole time. Like, it just felt like he was erased. It was like, oh my God, where did he go? What happened? Like, it was just— it was just— it was that intense. So about 3 years later, I was guided to have a reading with another medium. And in the reading, she said, Shauna, have you connected with Jack? And I said, no, I can't. I can't feel him. I can't see him. I said, I don't, I don't know what happened. And she said, well, look up, he's here. And so I see this incredible angelic being walk in the room holding hands with this little boy. And I immediately started crying. And it's my Jack, and he runs over and he's like, Mama, I'm here, I'm here. And it was just, it was like instantly in that moment, we were reconnected. And it was just like, It was like for the first time in years, I could breathe again. For the first time in years, it was like, I felt like maybe my heart would start to mend. And just knowing that I could connect with him and knowing where he was, that he was okay. And then he started sending the heart rocks. So what I love to give people, you know, at the end of their reading or in classes that they take with me is I love to tell them what their child's signs are from heaven. And so his were heart rocks. And so I started to find them everywhere. Like my house is full of them. It's just, it's so much fun. So that that was the starting point of my grieving. And so, you know, as we know, we grieve, and then we work into mourning, and then we work into the reconciliation, you know, the acceptance that, okay, he's not here in the physical, but I still have a relationship with him. And so he, you know, he comes in every day, he's beautiful, he's lovely. And the way that I see children on the other side is that when they, when they transition at a younger age, I see them growing up. And so that's the name of the program is Growing Up in Heaven. And then children that are older, when they, when they transition, I see them at that age. And so I like to make that distinction for people. And so yeah, Jack is, he's my love bug. He comes in all the time. He's, he's just lovely. And it's, it's near and dear to my heart to, to connect mothers with their children that they've lost through the, you know, in vitro, or miscarriage, or, you know, a myriad of different ways. Because I find that I find that society has this, this idea that because that child wasn't necessarily here alive in the physical, that it wasn't a real loss, that it wasn't real, that didn't really happen. It's just, it's not a big deal, just go try again. And so it's just really, I find really important and very special to give a voice to those losses and to help them to understand that that, that was a real loss. Like I said, for 6 months before we'd started the in vitro process, he was there, he was a part of our family. Like we felt the energy, like his, his joyful beautiful energy was in the house. And it was just, it was everywhere. And so yeah, that, that's my Jack. He's, he's sweet. He's— I'm blessed. I'm blessed to have the relationship that I have with him now. And what I want to change that absolutely in a heartbeat, you know, because I tell people, it's, it's one thing to lose a loved one. When you lose a child, you're losing the dreams and the milestones and walking them down the aisle and, you know, becoming grandparents and, and showing them everything in this world. And so there is a whole other layer to the loss of a child.

Yes, yes, absolutely. So, um, so you were a working medium before, before Jack, right? Okay. I wasn't aware of that when I was reading your bio and I checked out your website earlier. So I can see, but I'm sure people said to you, and you actually said it, oh, well, you could just connect with him. So, um, what do you think it is that that causes that, or caused that with you, that separation for, for a period of years?

Absolutely. That's a fantastic question, Brian. Thank you. So there's something I like to explain to people. The, the energy of our loved ones in spirit is moving so fast. And so if you imagine flicking the light switch on, how quickly that current snaps, and it illuminates the light in the room, that's how fast spirit energy moves. And now when we are experiencing lower vibration, emotions and feelings such as grief, loss, shame, anger, any, any number of those, it's lowering our vibration. And so I was in shock and grief, and probably a bit of shame because I thought, oh my gosh, how could this happen? You know, what did I do wrong? And, and I was in anger, I was angry at myself, my spouse, at God, I was angry at everybody. And so when our vibration is that low, it keeps us from being in that vibrational sweet spot I call it, where they can connect with us. And so if you imagine, you know, that spirit energy is up here, if our energy is down here, it just makes it that much more difficult to bridge that gap and make that connection. That was part of it. The other part of it was I was in just complete shock and disbelief. It was just, I literally couldn't, I couldn't process what had happened. It was like one minute he was there. And we were planning things and we were getting everything set up. And it was so exciting. And our family and friends knew, it was like everybody knew, and everybody was so excited. And then in an instant, he was gone. And just experiencing that firsthand, that when you are in such a deep, deep grief, that your vibration, again, your energy is just so low, and it's just down here. And it's not that it's impossible. You know, I work with a lot of mothers that catch little glimmers, usually through their dreams, or when they're just waking up first thing in the morning, it's like that, that conscious mind hasn't taken over yet. And so they can, you know, capture little glimmers of their children on the other side. But that's sort of it in a nutshell. It's just, that's one of the things I teach people. It's just, you know, if you have a nice high vibration, it makes it that much easier for the spirit world to align with your energy and buoy that up and make that connection. So you can experience them, you know, you may get, you know, feel shivers or tingles, or you just may feel happiness in your heart, or you may start to feel emotions. And so there are a myriad of different ways that we can experience the spirit world. But it's, it starts with that foundational piece, which is the vibration. And it was so fascinating, because for like 2, 3 years, I didn't even— I teach this and I didn't even get it. It was like, huh? It's like I said, it was like Groundhog Day. It was like I was in survival mode. I just, I didn't even realize that I wasn't thriving. I was just one foot in front of the other. And I, you know, I started volunteering at my daughter's school every week. I would go every day if I could. And I've baked probably 10,000 cupcakes and cookies. And I was like, I just, I did everything I could to actually avoid the pain. And there was so much that was wrapped up in it. And like I said, as soon as I could see Jack that day and experience him energetically, that's when it really started to shift for me.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief, most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. Reading. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth.

I hope to see you there. You mentioned earlier, you said grief, mourning, and acceptance. So explain those, how those— what that means to you.

Absolutely. So the grieving process is the internal, and a lot of people understand that there are stages to grief. So we may be angry, we may feel depression, we may have sadness, we may, you know, sort of barter, you know, there— that's where that guilt comes in. Well, maybe if I'd done something sooner, maybe if we'd done this. There can be the shame, there can be shock. So there can be the— I've seen, you know, different modalities around the stages of grief. And so grief, from my understanding, is internal. It's, it's maybe our sleep is disrupted, our thoughts are racing, we feel a myriad of different emotions, and it's all internal. And we're just, we're just doing everything we can to, to even function. And then as we move through our grief, we move into mourning. And, and I'm sure we can all relate to people who wear black, you know, they're all dressed dressed in black. And that's— mourning is the external expression, and that's where the tears come in. So we're crying, and we can oscillate between the two. There's the grief and the mourning. And then we come to a place where we understand that we can still have that foundational peace, that foundational relationship with our loved one. Whether or not you believe in the afterlife or heaven or spirit connection or mediumship, there comes a point where we understand that that connection is always going to be there, that we have all those memories, that we have all of that love, that it's all still available for us to experience. And so that's how I see it. And I, you know, a lot of, a lot of the mothers that I work with, it's— they've, they've gone through some of the grieving process. Sometimes that's where they get stuck. They just get stuck with it. They just cannot fathom the idea that that child is gone and they're not coming back. And, um, you know, a lot of, a lot of times I hear things like, um, I'll be happy when I'm reunited with them. Um, you know, I want I want to be with them. I need to be where they are. And what they don't understand is that we can create joy and happiness here while our children are growing up in heaven, while our children are not here in that physical body. But that's sort of how I see it. I see it as a journey. You know, it's, it's beautiful. It's, it's— that's where the healing comes in. You know, we work through the grief, we work through all those emotions, everything that's coming up. You know, a lot of times, it's almost like giving, giving mothers permission permission to be angry. Be angry. Like, just do what you need to to process everything that's coming up for you. They feel like their children have been ripped from them. Okay, we need to process that. How can we process that? How can we work through that? So you can just give your loss the dignity that it requires, the grace that it requires to just fully mourn. Our heart doesn't have a timeline. Our heart just needs to, needs to mend. I felt like my heart had been blown into a million pieces. I thought, oh my gosh, I'm never going to be the same. And I'm not, and that's okay. And so I always tell people, you know, before you lose a child, you're one version, and then after you lose a child, you're someone else. You're different. You're, you're changed. And it doesn't have to be a negative. It can— I always say, let's look for the blessings. Let's look for the blessings. And that's part of why I just love what I do, because to, to be able to give that validation and give that, um, give that sense of peace and hope and meaning, and that yes, you can experience joy in your life again. And it's funny, I was chatting with someone the other day, and She said, I don't know if I'm doing this right. She said, you know, one minute I'm crying and I'm angry and I want to just lash out at people. And the next minute I feel joyful and happy. And I said, that's it. I said, there's no guidebook. I said, we just have to honor the process. I said, you know, Jack would have been 9 this year. And I still, I still get triggered sometimes. Like I'll be out somewhere and I'll see a little boy that would have, you know, looks like him the way that I see him. And it's just like, oh, whoa, okay. So I see them as pockets of grief and, you know, I kind of just ride the wave and it's, It's complex. I mean, you know, there's not one size fits all. And, you know, everyone grieves differently. I've, I've read for families before, and, you know, one family member has completely accepted it, they're fine. I visit them in my dreams. It's great. It's wonderful. And then someone else who is, you know, maybe stuck in anger, and then someone else who can't even talk about it, can't even look at it. So it's just really honoring that process. It's, it's so individual.

Yeah, it absolutely is. And I love what you— there, it's individual, but there's also some things that are very common, are almost universal. And you talked about the anger and the guilt and shame and all those things that go along with it. And I always want to emphasize when I'm talking with parents who have lost children that this is normal, that most of us— in fact, I think almost all of us, I I don't like to use absolutes, but almost all of us go through some of that. We find a way to blame ourselves. It's almost like, you know, we feel like we have to go through that, I guess. I think it's, you know, it's fascinating talking to you and hearing how you talked about basically feeling or getting to meet Jack before he even came into the physical, and then losing him for this period of time, and then kind of getting him back.

Absolutely. It was, it was, it's a day that is etched in my mind. And you know, from the moment that we decided to have another baby, it was just this instant joy and this excitement and this anticipation. And you know, like my daughter had her big sister t-shirt and she had a pile of books that she was going to read to him. And I'm going to teach him this and I'm going to teach him that we have to go here, we have to do that. So he was already a part of our lives for about 6 months before we'd even, you know, started the process with the doctors and everything that goes along with it. And yeah, and then the day that, the day that we lost him, it was just, I was like, I literally couldn't comprehend. It was just like, no, no. And I just, I looked for everything to keep me busy. I'm going to clean the house, and I'm going to bake cupcakes, and I'm going to volunteer, and I'm going to volunteer again, I'm going to work. And I just, I just, I didn't even know what I was doing. I didn't. And I didn't have— this is also the other part of my work is, is I love to, you know, get the message out there to as many people as possible that there is help to work through the grieving process, there is help to to, you know, help you navigate this. It's, again, it's almost like, it's almost like people don't know what to say when you've lost a child. They just don't know what to say. They don't want to make it worse. They don't. And a lot of times they just don't have the capacity to hold that space. It's a very tender space, very tender space. And having gone through it myself, I understand firsthand, it's not a book I've read. It's not a course I took. It's— I know from the depths of my soul what that feels like. So losing him for those few years, it was like a blur. Like, thank goodness we took pictures, right? Because it's like, I think I was there at that event. I am.

Mm-hmm.

I was there, but not 100%. Like, I wasn't, I wasn't able to show up as the best version of me. And then after I connected with him again, I— it probably took me a good year to really work through the grief and the loss and to really accept that this had happened. And, and again, I would oscillate between the two. I would be really angry one day. And I just, I had this guilt, you know, maybe we should have done this, or if we, we hadn't waited, and and you know, my mind just took over and had a heyday with me. And then Jack would come in and I would feel instant joy. And it was just, it was amazing. And I joke with people that I didn't wear mascara for that year because I didn't know when I would start crying. I would, you know, I would be out driving and I would hear a song on the radio and start crying, or I would be, you know, out for a walk and I'd hear a mother say, Jack, and I'd just be like, I'd just be gutted. And so I knew that, I knew that things were getting better when I was able to start wearing mascara again. I know it sounds ridiculous, but you know, the day that I put mascara on. And it was like, at the end of the day, I thought, oh my gosh, I haven't cried today. Oh, I haven't cried today. And I thought, oh my gosh, okay. So that was part of, you know, reconciling that, okay, I'm gonna get through this. I love, uh, Marie Forleo always says everything is figureoutable. So during that year, I just kept saying, everything's figureoutable. I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to find a way. I know that, I know that God has a plan for my life. I don't know what this looks like. And I don't have all the answers, but I'm just going to keep showing up. And I allowed it to be messy. And I allowed it to, you know, there are some days I didn't want to get out of bed. There were some days where it was like, I don't want to talk to anybody. I don't want to get out of bed. I want to just, I want to sit with this. And I just, I want to stay in that space. And then other days where it was just, you know, it was just so important for me to connect with other mothers who have lost children. It was so important to be able to share and give inspiration that, that there is more, there's so much more.

Yeah, I think it's what you said is so important is to let that grief flow. Because, you know, everybody copes with it differently. And on the surface, like you were, you were saying you were volunteering to do all this stuff. So someone might say, oh, Shawna is doing great. But you weren't feeling the feelings. And we have to, we have to go through that. It is messy. And we've got, we've got to feel those feelings. And so some people go through, I call it grief fog, where it's like, like you said, for a couple of years, you're like, I don't remember whether I was there or not. You know, we had someone that just came to work on our house the other day, is a guy that we've known for many years. And he was at Shayna's, my daughter's service. And I said something about, you know, Shayna, he goes, I know I was there. And I'm like, yeah, I don't remember that day. I don't remember you being there.

Right.

But yeah, we just kind of go into that place where our brain is just too much, too much for us to handle.

Exactly. It is. And you know, and like I said, people would say to me, we are a medium, you can just connect with him.

What's the big deal?

And then I felt that I felt kind of silly. I was like, why? I am a medium. Why can't I connect with him? I connect with— I can connect with everyone else's child. Where's mine? Where did he go? What happened? Like, it was just, it was such a huge disconnect. And I like what you said, it was a total fog. You know, like, I look back over what Emma was doing this project at school. And, and it was, she had to go back and find pictures from, from different spots in her— with her sporting events. And we were going through the pictures. And it was like, like, oh my God, I was there. Okay, wow, I'm glad we have pictures. Because yeah, I was the same thing. It was like, okay, yeah, I don't even, don't even remember. And so it was like, it was like showing up like as a shell of myself almost. And sure, to the outside world, it was, hey, hi, how are you? Yeah, things are great. And then, you know, there were so many— oh, especially for client days, I would, you know, finish up my— with client days, and then I would have to be alone for an hour after because I would be bawling and I'd be a blubbery mess. And I just, I would have to put get myself back together again. And so there were so many times where I would just be like, I'll be right back, I just have to get something. And I would literally go in the next room and just, okay, I've got this, it's fine. It's fine. I've got this, I've got this, I've got this. And then of course, around, around my sacred circle, as I call them, you know, my girlfriends and, and, you know, my sisters and people that I felt had earned the right to hear my story, the people that didn't tell me to, you know, you could have done something different, or they didn't negate my pain, or, you know, they get, you know, really silent and not know what to say. The people that could just sit with it and say, is there something I can do? Talk about it. Talk about it as long as you need to. Do you need another glass of wine? It was just— those were my people. And then I would spend time with them. And, and nature. I'm a huge advocate to spending time in nature. And so it's— I think it's just really important to, um, you know, acknowledge that yes, it is messy and it's painful, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. And I find probably 80% of the women that come to work with me, they're stuck. They're somewhere along that journey, they've become stuck. And that's, that's also the work that I love to do is to help them understand what is it that's keeping it stuck? What is it? It's usually a story. There's a story. We could have done something different. I was supposed to die first. You know, I won't be happy until. And so once we start to look at what those stories are, we can start to shift and change them. And again, acknowledging the pain. I'm not trying to erase what's happened. I'm not trying to brush over the pain. It's, it's acknowledging the pain and giving it a safe container to, to process and for us to work through, while also starting to look toward the future. What is it that I'd like to create? What is the legacy that I'd like to create from my child's life here in the physical, however long that was, even if it wasn't, you know, like I said, miscarriages, or, you know, ectopic pregnancies, things like that, like, what is— there's still a legacy that we can leave. I mean, we are able to tap into a completely different aspect of ourselves if we're willing to go there. I mean, I have a deeper self-resiliency, this self-resiliency that I didn't know was there before. And like I said, I said every day, okay, let's figure out— well, I don't know how this is going to work out. You guys need to help me out with this. It was, it was really messy. And what I've come to realize is that life is messy regardless of, you know, any kind of loss that we've had or, or any tragedies that we've had. I mean, those, those, those to that as well. But life is messy. And I think it's, it's meant to be messy, because in the mess, figuring out the mess and understanding that we have a closer connection to who we are. And we gain that clarity as to, okay, where would I like this to go? And you know, a lot of people, I tell them, and this isn't again, to negate their loss or their pain, I tell them, suffering is a choice. So we can get up in the morning, and we can put the suffering hat on, on, or we can put on maybe possibilities, or how much fun can I have today, and maybe I can start to look forward to something again today. And again, they're baby steps. It doesn't all just erase and we get a reset and we're happy and joyous all of a sudden. Um, but yeah, that suffering really is a choice. And, and a lot of people, I find, they stay in that suffering. It's almost, it's almost like they want to— they're honoring their child, they're honoring that loss by staying in the suffering. And it's— no, they're— from the work I do as a freedom. They're happy on the other side. They are continuing to grow, and their souls are growing and shifting and changing. And, you know, I had— I read for one mom, and she said, you know, her son was 17 when he transitioned, and he was going to go to flight school. And he always had airplanes, and, and, you know, every Halloween, he dressed up as a pilot, and, and it was flying and flying and flying and flying. And when he came through and I connected him with his soul, that's part of his soul's journey. He's always been connected to flying and aviation and freedom and possibilities. And And she started to see wings everywhere. And I said, that, that's your sign from him. And so as our, our children are transitioning, and they're on the other side, as I see it, I call it heaven, you can call it whatever. They continue that soul's journey. So he's continuing to learn about aviation, and he's continuing to experience everything that lights his soul up. And that's one of the big lessons too, is, you know, I forgot what lit my soul up for so many years. And so it was rekindling that and reconnecting into what is it that brings me joy on a soul level, aside aside from being Jack's mom, because I'll always be Jack's mom. But what is it that really lights up my soul and really connects in with my heart? And, and how would I like to share that with the world? And so a lot of, a lot of big soul lessons that, that I was able to really chew into through this whole experience.

So I was— I typically, I would like to ask people what they think about like pre-birth planning. Now, obviously, you believe in pre-existence because you said you, you knew Jack before he came. So what do you think, though, about pre-birth planning? Was this something that was planned for you and for Jack, or how do you feel about that?

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. That's a great question. So from my perspective, from, you know, all the teachings and the learnings and, you know, reading for thousands of people over the years, our souls choose. They choose. It's almost like we have a blueprint for our life, for the incarnation. And so part of my experience with Jack was that it helped me, it helped me to have a greater capacity for love. And in that, I mean, it helped me to push through and, and not give up. I think there were so many times where I just wanted to give up. It's like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here. I want to be where he is. And so for my soul's growth and soul's experience, it was, it was really about you know, connecting into really honoring that connection. And for me, it's a little bit different because I have that connection reestablished now with him. So for me, it's like he's here in the physical anyway, like, that's how strong the connection is. And so it's really, really looking at that. And I really was able to find that, that inner resiliency and find, you know, my faith was, was, was knocked around. You know, I had a, you know, I thought, well, if there's a God, then why would he take Jack? Like, why, why did this happen? And so there was a lot of a lot of the ego. And from, from my experience working through all of this, you know, my soul's growth and soul's journey, it was really about just keeping, keeping centered in the midst of all of it. Because it was so easy to get taken away over here. And then if somebody said something about, well, you could have just tried again, I'd be over there. And then I just, it really, I just really had to anchor myself. And it really helped me to it really helped me to unleash my gifts in a different way and help me to really connect into helping people shift from that suffering into thriving, helping people to rebuild their lives, helping people to find meaning again, because I had to do it for myself. And now for Jack, he experienced that brief time that he was here energetically that helped his soul grow as well. And I like to tell people, you know, we have what I refer to as our soul group or our soul family. So our soul group could be hundreds of souls. And so yeah, Jack was a part of this incarnation. And we've had other lives together, and we'll have other lives together in the future. But the way that he came into this incarnation, he only needed to come in for a brief amount of time to experience what his soul needed in this lifetime. And now he's taken that and he's kind of gone off and he's run off with of it. And so that's how I see it. I like to, I like to explain that, that, you know, there are, there's a bigger plan to all of it. And I don't have all the answers. I'm the first person to say that. But there is a bigger plan at work. And sometimes that will help us to find solace, that will help us to, you know, mend our heartbreak, just knowing that we're part of a bigger plan, that this wasn't senseless. This, this wasn't, you know, this didn't have, you know, it's not like it didn't have meaning. Like, there, every child's life who you know, whatever that looks like, there's meaning and there's purpose. And it's just, it's really important for us to discover and really figure out what is the legacy, what is the legacy of that. I mean, for Jack, I mean, he, he comes in all the time, and his energy is all around. And, and he's with other children on the other side. And he's, you know, as part of developing the program, teaching moms how to make the connection, and he's, he's just sort of interweaving his energy into everything. And And I wouldn't have that beautiful gift of his energy to share with the world if I hadn't experienced him the way that I did.

Wow. Yes, I love that. I love that. And that's, that's a great answer. Because, you know, it's, it's really difficult when we lose a child when— and I hate that word, lose a child. But when a child transitions before we do as a parent, and I was just talking with the client the other day, her son was like 19. And it's really easy for us to say, what could be the meaning in this, you know, this shouldn't, this shouldn't happen. God should never do this to a parent or to a child. So one thing I do want to get your thoughts on, because I find, you mentioned earlier, especially with parents, we mourn the loss of the future that we perceived the, in your case, going to kindergarten, you know, going to, you know, that prom, getting married, all the things that we dream about.. And we say, my child is missing that. So if a parent came to you and said, I feel bad because my son or my daughter is missing that, how would you answer them?

Hmm, that's a very good question. Very good question. I would, I would look at reframing the story. I would look at, I would look at shifting that instead of looking at what isn't going to happen, I would start to bring it back to let's connect into what's here now. Because our minds can take us in a myriad of different ways with things. And what we think about is what we start to draw into our reality. So and this is where a lot of people get stuck, you know, well, they're supposed to be here. And, and, you know, there was someone I read for a few years ago, and she was just in this deep depression. And she She said, you're not supposed to outlive your children. She said, this is just not right. And she said, I can't. And it's almost like she put a stake in the ground. And she said, I'm not going to enjoy my life until I am with him, till I'm reunited with him. And I gently said to her, I said, okay, or, or I say to people, I play devil's advocate, or what if your child wants more for you.

We'll get back to Grief to Growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving, his book Grief to Growth is a best-selling, easy-to-read book that might help you or someone you know. People work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at www.grieftogrowth.com. Www.grief2growth.com, or text growth, G-R-O-W-T-H, to 31996. If you'd like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/grief2growth, www.patreon.com/grief2growth. GROWTH to make a financial contribution. And now back to Grief to Growth.

What if your child is happy, they're at peace on the other side? And sometimes I don't know what the soul's lessons are. I don't have anything more to give parents from that perspective. But what if you can still have that connection and still feel all that love and all the possibilities? They're just not here in the physical with us? What if they're there is more to what we see in the physical reality. And what if, what if we could put down the guilt or the shame or the anger? What if we could move that aside? And we could start to reclaim our life? We could start to, you know, and I tell people, I say, Jack is in my heart. That's where he's, he's just tucked away in my heart. And no one can take that from me. No one, no one can take that from me. And his energy is all around me. And I have heart rocks. And I just, I've been able to shift it into something positive. And And that took work. And that took, you know, getting in the arena with the ugly stuff and sitting with the messy days. But it's, it's really just about making the choice. Again, like I used to say, you know, I don't— I know that God has a plan for my life. I don't know what that looks like. I don't have all the answers. But I trust that I'm being guided. And I'm being, you know, shown how to move through this, so that I can create a legacy of Jack. Can again share his energy and share that insight and, and give hope and possibilities, knowing that our children are safe and they're at peace and that they're all around us. They became— they become our greatest cheerleaders from the other side. I mean, I always tell people, you know, take lots of pictures at family functions, weddings, birthdays, anniversaries, because you'll usually see orbs of light, you'll usually see sprinkles of light in the pictures. And those are your children. They're there, they're with us. They're just not here in the physical.

So how— I have two questions, so I'll ask them one at a time. So how do you experience Jack now?

Ah, how do I experience Jack now? So just a Spiritual Gifts 101, there are four main ways that spirit connects with us. And so clairvoyance, so I may, you know, see an image of Jack in my mind. It may look like a little bit of a movie that's playing in my mind. I may see sparkles of light, repeating numbers, he's in my dreams. There's also clairaudience, which is clear hearing. And so I may hear Mama, I may hear Jack, I may hear his laughter. I may be driving, and I'll think, oh, I should change the radio, and I'll turn it on. And there's a song and it's like, oh my gosh, that's Jack. Clairsentience is clear feeling. So whenever Jack is near me, I literally feel— it feels like champagne bubbles in my heart. It's like my heart starts to warm up. It's like, where are you? I can feel you. And then we have claircognizance. And our claircognizance is our clear knowing. So sometimes I just kind of look up from what I'm doing, and I just know he's here. And so those are the 4 main ways that our children connect with us from the other side. And part of what I love teaching is I love teaching people which is their strongest gift, and helping them to understand what those signs and symbols are. So they understand when it is their child that's coming through. I have, you know, probably hundreds of people a week say to me, am I going crazy? Is this— am I experiencing them? Or am I making this stuff up? And yeah, I mean, spirit energy is very subtle. And so if we're busy in our minds, if we're making lists, and we're going here, we're going there, and, you know, like me avoiding it at all costs, we're not going to receive those subtle impulses, we're not going to receive those little snippets of clarity and excitement.

Great, great answer. Thank you. So now I want to shift it to the other side. So what do you think our children that are in heaven are experiencing?

Mm, I love this question. So what I have seen is that, again, their soul's journey is, is still experiencing soul growth on the other side. So what I see when I, you know, when I'm connecting into those realities in that realm is, you know, Jack has shown it looks like, you know, different schools, and they're working with different guides. And and they're exploring, and they're experiencing, and there's a lot of play. I mean, you know, a lot of the signs and symbols that come through from children, I mean, they love balloons, and they love bubbles, and they love, you know, butterflies and crickets. And lots of little boys that come through in readings have like, like frogs and creepy spiders and things like that. And so they're still experiencing life on the other side. They're just not in this physical reality. So whatever that child— imagine, you know, a 5-year-old, how much fun they have and what they love to do. They're still doing that on the other side. And again, from that soul's journey, that soul's perspective, they are continuing to explore that, like the example I gave earlier of a little boy who was so interested in aviation before he came into this reality, and then was planning to be a pilot. And, you know, he's still exploring that and more as they're growing up on the other side.

I love that.

Because I think a lot of times, you know, we don't— this idea we have of heaven, to use that word, is— it sounds— I mean, when I was a kid, I said it myself, it sounds boring. You know, it's like we play harps, or we, you know, we sing, we sit on clouds. And so when a parent says to me, my child is missing out, I think that's because we think they don't, they don't do anything. We are— it's always we, right? It's always they, right? We have to remember, we all go there. So it's not them and us. It's, it's us. But absolutely, when we go there, we still get to do stuff. And that's, that's what I'm hearing from your answer.

Oh, absolutely. So I mean, if, you know, if your child was musically inclined, they are still playing musical instruments on the other side. If they were a hockey player, they're still experiencing that. It's just energetically. And so there's still the joy and the excitement and the passion and the drive. All of that still exists. They just do not have their physical body. So yes, they are playing sports, and they are playing and they they are learning, and they're reading, and they're studying, and they're furthering their growth. You know, I always tell people, you know, when, when a child— when a soul transitions from the physical body, they're not alone. There are guides and angels and benevolent energies and beings and our other loved ones who are waiting to take them into that other realm, if you call it. And so they're not— I used to think that as well. I thought, well, we just— do we become angels? We just, you know, become chubby, and we sit on clouds, and, you know, we sing, and that's all we do. Now, there's, there's so much more. So it's literally, you know, it's, it's unlimited, what they're doing on the other side. And so I've seen glimmers of what it is. And to me, they look like soul schools. I mean, they're, you know, they're in classrooms, and they're learning, and they're exploring, because their souls are still growing. And, you know, figuring out, you know, the other part of it too, is when we leave the physical, there is a life review. Okay, why did we incarnate? What did we experience? And oftentimes, that soul will experience the effects of their behaviors and their actions and their words through the eyes of the people that they most impacted with, the people that they most loved. And it's amazing because you can see the unconditional love, you can see the joy, you can experience how uplifted everyone was from having that soul here in this reality. And so it's always positive. And that's, that's, I think, where people get stuck. Like, they're, they're, they're focused on, they're not here, they're not here, they're not here, they're not here. And that perpetuates the pain. Instead, I like to be the invitation to, you can still connect, you can still connect, you can still feel them, that love will never die, that connection can never be lost. Yes, it's a journey to get there. It's a journey to get your mind around it. But it just there's, there are more possibilities. That's the invitation that I love to give people is that what if there is more? Just, I'm just giving you the idea that what if there is more? What if there, there could be more? What if this isn't it? What if you could make that connection? What if, what if you can still feel your child all around you? Like I said, I feel Jack all the time. We used to, I used to dream of him just about nightly, those 6 months leading up to when we started the in vitro. And every night we would go flying. And so I would wake up and it would just be like, oh, Jack, it's like he was in the room with me. It was so real. And I have that again, like whenever he comes in, I feel his little hand slip in my hand. I just close my eyes and I can just feel him all around me. And it's just, it's such a beautiful gift. And I love, love, love to give that gift to other parents, for them to be able to experience their child on the other side and just— and a lot of people are afraid to to experience their child on the other side, because they think it's going to break their heart again. They think that they're not gonna be able to, to get through it. They're just— they can't even fathom that idea. So I love to give, give the possibility. What if there is more? What if there's more?

So I want to ask you about this term that we use, the physical. So you said— I heard you say they don't have their— we don't— they don't have their physical bodies anymore. And I hear a lot of people say that. But I also hear you say that we can play hockey on the other side. So how do you reconcile those two things?

Right, so it's just, it's energetically, it's energetically. And so again, it's, it's just limitless. It's, um, whatever sport that they were involved in, they can still energetically connect into it. And, and just, it's, yeah, they're, they're not on the ice with their, their stick and their puck, you know, in the physical sense, but energetically they can still connect into it. Energetically, they're still very much a part part of everything that lit them up, everything that brought them joy, all the fun, all the joy, all the, all the innocence, like just all of, all of that energy is still there that they connect into and they play with. And again, children are experiencing, you know, playing musical instruments and, and writing and reading and all of those different beautiful things. And so it's— I liked what you said, you know, it's thinking about, well, they're not here, they're missing out. But What if, what if they're not? Like, you know, what if they're, what if they're still continuing to marinate in those energies and, you know, enjoy, you know, hockey as an example, you know, what if they're still really enjoying that? And what if, what if they become guides to other people in their family who maybe there's somebody else in their family that loved hockey, and maybe that's the way that they connect with that person, right? Like, maybe it's, you know, oftentimes I will see, you know, maybe dad sitting on the couch watching hockey, and I'll see children beside them watching with them. And so there's still that connection, whenever those those shared experiences were, those shared loves, if you will, they can still be a part of it. While they're not in that physical form, they can still very much be a part of our world. You know, it's funny, there was a wedding I went to several years ago. And after they got the pictures back, it was a friend of mine, she said, this is really weird. She said, I have to show you this. She said, you know, they took pictures of, you know, there's Brian was at the front, his name was Brian. Brian was at the front waiting for me. And she And she said, and they took pictures down the aisle. And she said, there were all these empty spots, but they had like these, these lights, like these lit up. I don't even know what that is. And she showed me and I said, well, those were loved ones at the wedding. Those were loved ones in spirit who were there. And she said, that is so crazy. And I said, they are a part of our world, whether or not we get that, whether or not we believe it's even possible. They're here, they're here. They're here to console us energetically when we're working through our grief and our mourning. When we're in our deepest despair. They're here when we're celebrating. They're here when we hit those milestones and we're excited. They're here. They're alongside us for the journey.

Yeah, I think it's absolutely true. And I think that's really important, especially for us parents to keep in mind, is that they are, they are still here with us, even while they're there. Wherever, wherever there is, because as I said, I think there is no here and there. It's just, it's all one big place. It's just they're— we're at a different vibrational level. I love the way you put that earlier. You know, it's kind of like different radio frequencies if you're on an FM dial, right? So if we're, if we're tuned in to 92, we're only going to pick up 92. They're, they're at 98. They're still just as real. And I, I'm still forming this model in my mind. And, and I am, I am an engineer, so I get really deep into this stuff. Because everything is energy. What we call the physical is just slowed down energy. So it's all energy. So when we say they don't have a physical body anymore. I say they don't have a body that we can perceive.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's perfect. Our physical energy, it's just, it's dense. It's dense. It's heavy. It's anchored. Absolutely. I love that. They just, they don't have that same physical, dense thing that we can touch. It's there, but we just, we're just not able to touch it. It just doesn't have that density.. And I love what you were saying. You know, I often say to people, you know, making the connection spiritually is like an old-fashioned radio dial, we tune into the frequency. You know, the angelic realm is one frequency, my grandmother is a completely different frequency. Jack is that similar frequency. And so it's just, yeah, it's, it's all energy. And when we understand that, I mean, we are energy, we are energy, everyone is energy, we're creating energy as we're talking today. And all of the energy that's being created on, on this talk is going to be felt by the different people who are meant to listen to this. And and hear this. And just, you know, it's just, it's, it's all about vibration and energy. And people think that that sounds just so crazy, but it's, it's true. It's, that's all it is. It's just they don't have this physical representation, as you were saying. They just don't have this dense physical form. They still have a form. It's just, it's light. It's, it's so much lighter. And it's just, it's still very much real. And, you know, that's what people, people get stuck with that. They're like, right, it's not real because I can't see it, I can't touch it. But then I say to them, how do you know you're breathing Oxygen. Can you see it? Can you touch it? Can you buy a package at the store and bring it home and consume it? I said, how do you know? And so then people kind of go, oh, well, how do I know I'm breathing? It's just, it's what if there's more is really the invitation. It's like, what if there is more? And then oftentimes people are— I have people that reach out and say, okay, I think, I think I'm getting it. Like, I, I feel goosebumps. And then I start thinking of of my loved one? Like, is that them? Yeah, it is them. And so it's really cool. And once I teach people, once they start to acknowledge it, they get it and they acknowledge it. More please. And it'll happen again and again and again and again. And it becomes really fun, then it just, it really does.

Yeah, exactly. And as I said, you know, being, being from the scientific background, because I talk to people like you all the time, and we talk about energy vibration, and people think, oh, that's all just New Age thinking. That's all just woo-woo stuff. And I'm like, no, it's really based upon what we No, I— so I use the analogy like light, we can only see a small spectrum of the light wave. There's, there's so much more that our eyes physically cannot perceive. We know it exists, but we can't perceive it. And that's the way I, that's the way I view the spirit world. It's very real. It's just as real as what we are. And when Leslie Flint was doing his physical medium experiments, and people would come in, and the people that were sitting would say, no, can you— what do you do over there? And the guy's like, I do everything I did when I was there. Well, is it solid? Solid to me? Yes.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. It's perfect, right? Like, it's, it's so amazing. So we do— I offer a group meditation, we usually do them once a month. And in the meditation, I will journey people across the Rainbow Bridge to experience their child on the other side. And it's the coolest thing, because because it's like, and depending on what their gifts are, if they've, if they've delved into this reality before, just, you know, everyone is welcome. And, you know, everybody has their own experience with it. But I just, I want them to just experience that energy, experience their child in that different form, experience them like, no, like sometimes, you know, I can feel Jack come and I can feel him like I can physically feel him physically wraps his arms around me. And that's amazing. Amazing. But not everybody experiences spirit in that way. And it doesn't mean that mine's better, that yours isn't. It's just, I love to open it up for people. Because then there was this one lady that said, I didn't get anything. Nothing at all. I said, really? I said, of course, I get really curious. I said, really? You didn't, you didn't receive anything? She says, no. I said, you didn't feel the hair on the back of your neck stand up? She goes, oh, yes, I did. And I said, and you didn't feel a tug on your hair? And she said, oh, She said, I feel that all the time. Oh my gosh, I said, yeah, our logical mind is quick to go, meh, there was a draft. Oh, must have got stuck on my shirt. Oh, our logical mind is always looking for ways to kind of fill in the blank of where it goes. And I said, spirit, there are a myriad of different ways that they will bring their energy closer to you to experience. And again, depending on how your gifts work and how open and available you are will depend on how you experience them. And see, I love to, love to help people experience that just so they can bring that energy in, and then they can just start to notice how your body is feeling. Notice what you're thinking. Notice what, what thoughts are coming up. Are you, you know, are you picturing something, you know? And sometimes people will even smell things, or they'll start to taste different things. Like when my grandmother's around, I smell lily of the valley. When my grandfather's around, I smell smoke. You know, so it's just, it's just being— it's how open and available are we? And just, I invite people to step into that arena. It's like, all right, let's, let's see where this takes us and just kind of drop the walls and just let it be what it's going to be. And oftentimes they're really surprised by what they do experience. And then they— and then afterwards, they'll usually say, oh my gosh, I've been feeling like the hair on the back of my neck for probably a year. It's like, yeah, that's them. That's you responding to their energy. And so it's just, it's beautiful to give them that confirmation to understand And again, as you were saying, they're still doing everything they did here, just not here in this dense physical reality that we know that we are in.

Yes. And what you said, again, I think is so key, because I've been through exercises like that, where you try to connect with your, with your love on the other side. And a lot of us, again, especially people like me, I'm very, very logical, very grounded, I guess I'd say, for lack of a better word. I'm like, okay, I want to hear them, I want to see them, I want to experience them the way that, that Shauna experiences them. And it's different for everybody. So I would do a couple of things. I'm like, I'm not getting anything, I'm not getting anything. And then I realized that it's, it's usually subtle. And it's different for everyone. So we want, we want what the other person has, as opposed to getting what that our unique connection with that person. So it takes a while to, I guess it's like learning a language, learning their language, how is it, how do they affect me when they're around. Some people experience them on the right side, some people experience them on their left side. And I've heard people say, if it's on my right, it's my sister, if it's on my left, it's my grandmother. And you learned that?

Oh, absolutely. You know, it's funny because, you know, 99% of people that come to me, they say, I want to see, I want to see clairvoyantly, I want to see them. Make it happen. And I'll say to them, but when you woke up this morning, did you not hear someone whisper your name. Oh, oh my God.

Yes.

That's them, because your clairaudience gift is your strongest. So when you understand which one of the gifts, the spiritual gifts, and everybody has them, just depends on if they want to open them or not. When you understand what your strongest spiritual gift is, then you can start to understand your child, your loved one on the other side will utilize your strongest gift to connect with you. And then we can start to hone in on that. And then once we have that gift kind of, I say, once we have that one up and running, and we've got it polished, and you clearly understand when you're experiencing them, then we can shift gears into perhaps the clairvoyance. And so I find a lot of people are like, no, I want to see them. I want to, I want to see them and hear them. I want to talk to them like I talked to them when they were here. And it doesn't work like that. And so, you know, it's, it's funny, I say to people, it's like, it's like, you know, those, those FBI shows where, where they're in the interrogation room, they've got the guy there, and they're talking to him, and they're asking questions. And then they've got that, that mirror, and they've got the other people behind the mirror and they're listening to see what he says. That's kind of what it's like, right? Like, spirit can see us and they're just— there's sometimes there's that disconnect. It's just like, oh, like they can see everything and they can understand it. And it's just, it starts to become frustrating because I find people just push away whatever it is. Like, you know, a lot of people heat up or they get cold or they feel temperature shift in the room. I know I do. Like, I'll either heat up or I get ice cold. I feel, you know, goosies. I'll get goosies. I'll start to get emotional. So I have all these different experiences. And it's all relating to the energies that are around me. So when we're open to whatever that's going to look like, and I tell people, just let go of any preconceived notions, let go of any expectations as to how you think it should be, how you want it to be, because you're missing a whole beautiful experience. You're missing it. There was my— when I first met my husband at the time, his dad, we flew back to Ontario here in Canada. And the day we were we were leaving, he said, oh my gosh, will you look at that? And he looked down and on his hand was this huge dragonfly. It had to have a wingspan of about 5 inches. It was huge. And it just sat on his hand the whole time. Emma was like, can we bring it home? I said, no, no, no, his family is here. We're going to leave him here. There was this huge butterfly— or sorry, dragonfly. So a few months later, I finished up a hike just out here in the mountains. And I got back to the car and I got the call that Terry had transitioned, that he had died. And I said, okay, I'm about 45 minutes away. I'll be home soon. So I hang up the phone, and all I hear is, get out of the car. And I thought, okay. So I get out of the car, and there were hundreds of dragonflies flying around the car. And I just froze in that moment. I was just like, ah, Terry, you're okay, you've made the transition. And I could hear him, and I, you know, through my tears, I could kind of see him. And it was just like, oh my gosh. And to this day, you know, I see dragonflies, and that's Terry. And so it's just, it's, it's just such a beautiful way for us to experience that world. And I mean, if I wasn't open and available to the I would miss it. I'd be like, wow, that's cool. Lots of dragonflies. I wonder what they're doing. Interesting. Whereas instantly I got out and it was like I could feel him. I could make that connection. I could just— it's magical. It's fun. It, you know, I say to people, you know, our signs and symbols from heaven are like little sprinkles of love. They're just— they're letting us know that they're here. They're finding ways in the physical to let us know that they're with us. It could be flickering the lights. It could be turning the TV TV on enough. It could be, you know, helping us to find heart rocks. We may find dimes, we could find feathers. We, you know, there's so many different signs and symbols that they are, and they're, they're even more excited when someone gets it, that that's them. Like my grandfather, he always leaves dimes everywhere. So I have a container full of dimes are from him. I find them in the weirdest places, in the sink, the cat was playing with one. You know, they just, they just sort show up. And every time I get one, I say, thanks, Grandpa. More, please. More, please. They're even more excited when we get it. They're like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I have to, I have to interject here. Can we mention dimes? Because this happened to me just like 2 days ago. So my, my sign for my daughter's dimes. So when she passed, I said, you know, I don't want pennies, you know, I want it to be dimes that you don't find all the time. So a couple days ago, I take a walk every morning. I'm coming back from my walk, I look down, there's 2 dimes laying next to each other on on the sidewalk. So I pick them up, I take a picture of it, I post it on Facebook. Few minutes later, a Facebook memory comes up from 4 years ago, my wife and I were on a Helping Parents Heal conference. And we found 77 cents in the, in the pocket of this, the bus that we were riding. And her father was 77 when he passed. And so I made a post about that. And so that comes up right after I find the two dimes. So I post this, and this— there's a point here, because there's a guy that he follows me on Facebook. And he says, this is just random stuff. He goes, I'm sure— and he said sarcastically, I'm sure the universe really cares about your pocket change, Brian. The whole universe is conspiring to give you pocket change. And I say this because people will shoot down what you and I take as signs. I thought that was pretty phenomenal. That I hadn't found any dimes in a while, I find 2 dimes. And then just a few minutes later, this memory comes up reminding me of what happened 4 years ago with— we found exactly 77 cents.

That's beautiful. I love that. And they're talking right now, like, how are we going to answer this? There are a couple of different pieces to this. So first and foremost, people will negate or question or judge judge what they don't understand. And when it comes to spirit communication, what I found time and time again, are that the people that, that have to kind of knock it or, yeah, right, that's mm-hmm, sure, sure, sure, sure, are people that have had a loss. And they haven't fully grieved it. They haven't fully moved through it. And to further that, I would say 99% of those people, because they eventually always come back to me at some point, it's really fascinating. They have spiritual gifts to connect with the other side that they don't want to acknowledge. They don't want to even touch it. They're like, nope, I'm gonna make you wrong because I— no, I, I'm not even going to touch that in myself.

Interesting.

Yeah, it is, it's really interesting. And so I had— there was this one client, and I can— he, he tells me all the time, yeah, share the story, share the story. Um, his name's Gary, and he's about 6'6", this huge burly man. And when he lost his daughter, he was so angry. And he and his wife came to see me, and he was like, this is just a bunch of BS. And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about, and this is, this is just, this isn't what God had planned, and, and I don't believe in God anymore, and this is ridiculous. And he got up and he left, and it was just like, okay, I just, I meet people where they're at. I just thought, okay, well, maybe we helped with a little bit of his healing. We'll see. So about 3 months later, he called me and he said, something just happened, I need to talk to you. And I said, okay. And so his sign from his daughter were butterflies. And so he was in the yard, and they used to hike together. They were, you know, they had a cabin near the water. And so there was one day where he was out, and he said all day he could smell her. Like, he said, I could smell her, and I could just feel her, and I thought about her all day, and it was just, it was constant. And I swear I heard her say, Dad. And he said, I just, I thought I was losing my mind. And he said, I went I sat, I sat in the chairs that we used to sit in by the water. And he said, I kind of dozed off. And he said, when I woke up, there were— I was covered with butterflies. And he said, I just started to cry. And I started to cry. And I started to cry. And he said, that was her. I know in my heart, that was her. And he said, I just, I couldn't even fathom the idea that she'd been taken that soon. I couldn't even— I thought I I was her, her father, her protector, I should have been able to save her, this shouldn't have happened. And so it was really cool. And then he got this really, really neat tattoo with a butterfly with her name in it. It was just, it was the neatest thing ever. And so it's, there's often a reason, you know, why someone would, why they're not willing to look at the possibility. So there are several, you know, there are a few different things that I've seen over the years, as I've shared, as to why someone would say, nah, that's not real. That's crazy.

Well, you know, the thing is, as we're talking, and I have a lot of friends that are mediums, and I think a lot of us put mediums like in a special category, like they think that you sit down with their loved one sitting in a chair across from them. And you can see them and you can hear them. And it's just like, you know, it's like talking, you know, like, like they're just sitting there. But I find that for most people, and you can tell me how you experience it, it's more subtle. It's the stuff that we get. It's impressions, it's smells, it's tastes, it's that, that little sense of knowing. So how is it for you when you're doing a reading for someone?

Do you—

how do you perceive the loved one coming through?

That's a great question. That's a great question. Because no two mediums do it the same, right? We all have different gifts and our loved ones on the other side. When that energy is really aligned with the right medium, that energy is aligned. When I read for people, I want them to feel their loved one in the room. So sometimes I will come in, I want, I want to know what their personality was like. So I will come in and if they, you know, were jovial and fun and mischievous, I bring that into the energy. And it's almost like people will say to me, oh my God, you're like him, like you just stepped into him. And it's just like, yeah, like I allow that energy to come through me. And I have conversations with them. So they come in, I ask them, you know, I asked them to show themselves to me at their happiest. And so that depends on, you know, which, you know, who that loved one is. So they come in at their happiest. And then they start to show me different signs. And I asked them, you got to give me stuff that nobody can Google. Because, you know, people could say, well, I saw that on Facebook, you just, you just looked on my Facebook page. And that's where you got all that from. So I want I want evidence. I want not to prove that I'm amazing, but just to give them the validation and to help them to open up to the possibility that it's real. And so I have, I have the loved ones come in. And I tell them, I explain, you know, who it is and what I'm seeing and what I'm— and they utilize all of my gifts. So I will see and hear and know and feel, and I can smell cigarette smoke, I can, you know, sometimes I'll taste something. And then I just start relaying the information and the guides will come in as well. And so the guides will come in and start to help. And it's almost like we sort of create this, again, this sacred container where I'm channeling the loved one. But we also have their guides coming in to help with the healing process, and to help align the energies and strengthen the energy so that they can start to communicate with their loved ones and experience them and, and know when they're connecting with them on the other side. It's, again, there's no two ways of doing it. And that's just how I've always done it. It's just like, they just come in. Sometimes I get names, it just, it depends on what the person needs to hear from me, is really what it comes down to. So if I'm reading for someone and they need to hear a name, then the names come through. If they need to hear, you know, a date, if that's important to them, that will come through. If they, you know, oftentimes they need to, they need to to have the confirmation, you know, how that, that person died, how the child died, how that person died. And then there's always grief. And there's always guilt. And so we— I work from those energetic perspectives as well, because it's— it isn't just relaying the information, it's just— it's, it's creating, creating a space in their hearts, they can actually receive the energy that will help them to heal and, and help them to rebuild their life and help them to, again, create that legacy of that child, that loved one while they're still here in this dense physical reality. And their loved ones are in that, that energetic space.

Absolutely.

Shauna, we're coming to the end of our time. I want to— I still have so much more I want to talk to you about this. So I want to talk to you about— obviously, people can reach you for readings. I assume you're still doing readings?

Yes.

So we'll give your website here in a minute. But you have a program that people can, can take. So tell me about the program?

Oh, I do. Thank you. Yes. The program is Growing Up in Heaven. So it's a 7-step process. It's the 7-step process that I went through to reconnect with Jack. And so it takes you through different components. You know, we can See.

All right.

So we had a little technical difficulty. I was just joking with Shauna. Mediums do this. Every time I interview a medium, there's something goes on with the electronics. I was asking you about your, your program. So tell everybody about how they can—

what your program is about.

Oh, absolutely. It is the Growing Up in Heaven program. It's a program that I developed that took— it took me through these exact steps to be able to connect with Jack on the other side. So it was connecting with my own soul. It was understanding my gifts and my strongest gift that Jack was going to utilize. It was understanding the signs, meeting my spirit guides that were going to help with the connection. There was a healing component. And then the last, the last part of the course, the program is actually making the connection with your child on the other side. So it's filled with, you know, their PDFs and meditations and audios, and everything is in the program to set you up to make that connection. And, you know, everyone that's gone through the program and done it, you know, if you follow those, those steps, you know, as they're outlined, you will experience your child on the other side. It's just absolutely beautiful. Jack's energy is interwoven in it. He, he came through and, and there's so many beautiful energies that are part of the program. And so yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful way to learn how to make the connection yourself. And it's a beautiful way for your logical mind to kind kind of have something to chew on so that you can, you know, move past that and you really start to understand what the signs are and what you're experiencing and really start to build that connection and that confidence that you are experiencing your child on the other side.

Awesome.

That sounds great. So let people know where they can reach you, where they can find the program. And I know you also have an ebook as well.

Yes, absolutely. The ebook is I See Dead People and So Can You. It's available on Amazon. So you can, you can have have a look there. My website is livealifeulove.org, all spelled out, and that's where you can find information about the program. My podcast is on iTunes and Spotify. It is the Oracle of Light Podcast. And you can find me on social media. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram. Come on and say hi. I love to know about everyone's signs that they're receiving from their loved ones on the other side. So, you know, come in and just say hello. And I do work individually one-on-one with people around the world. And. And it's, it's just, it's such a blessing. And I'm just so, so honored to be here with you today. It's just been, this has been absolutely fantastic.

Yeah, it's been great having you. So I just want to give you a chance, if there's anything you didn't get a chance to say, any last words you want to leave us with, this is the time to do it.

I just, I just love to open people up to the possibility. I invite you to, whenever you listen to this, I invite you to ask your loved one or your loved ones on the other side to give you a sign and let you know that they're with you. And don't have the preconceived notion as to how it's going to show up or what it's going to be. Just be open to the possibility. Just, I know that you're around me, I'd love to feel you or sense you, or, or can you come into my dreams? Or just— and just follow the magic. Just be open and available to the possibility. And I guarantee you, you'll experience something.

Awesome.

Shana, have a great rest of your day.

Thanks for being here. Thank you, Brian. You as well.

Thanks for listening to Grief to Growth. Brian hopes that you find this episode helpful, and will come back for future episodes. Brian's bestselling book, Grief to Growth: Planted, Not Buried, is a great resource for anyone who is coping with grief or knows someone who is. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support it, there are 3 things you can do to to help. The first is to share the podcast with someone that you think it will help. The second is to go to iTunes, rate and review the episode. The third way you can support the podcast is by becoming a patron. Head over to www.patreon.com/grief2growth. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/grief, the number 2 Growth, and sign up to make a small monthly donation. Patrons get access to exclusive bonus content and knowledge that you are helping to spread the message of grief to growth. For more about Brian and grief to growth, visit www.grieftogrowth.com.

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