Unveiling Hidden Wisdom- Mònica Esgueva's Encounters With Tibetan Lamas EP 375

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey everybody, this is Brian. Welcome back to another episode of Grief to Growth. And whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a familiar face in our community, I'm thrilled to have you with us. Today we have the privilege of spending time with Monica Escava. She's a luminary in the fields of self-development and spiritual practice. She's celebrated for seamless integration of Eastern wisdom and Western pragmatism cultivated through a decade of studying profound teachings from from the Tibetan lamas, including the esteemed Dalai Lama, in India and Nepal. With a background in economics and advanced studies in neuroling— neurolinguistic programming— easy for me to say— leadership, mindfulness, psychology, and more, her holistic approach to teaching has transformed the lives of thousands, from corporate executives at top global companies to individuals seeking personal growth. In today's episode, Monica is going to share insights from her bestselling works, including her profound book, My Mindfulness and her latest explorations in The Seven Levels of Wisdom, which delves into the evolution of human consciousness and offers practical guidance of personal transformation. We'll discuss her transformative encounters with Tibetan lamas, her approach to navigating the emotional roller coasters many of us face, and her impactful work with individuals at the brink of life and death. Stay with us to uncover the myths of joy and happiness, to learn how to cope with stress and anxiety, in today's fast-paced world and discover how to align your career with your deeper life purpose. And don't forget to join us afterwards in our Grief 2 Growth community to discuss the episode there. So with that, I'd like to welcome to Grief 2 Growth Monica Esqueda.

Thank you so much, Brian. And I can't believe you're able to pronounce my surname well.

Oh, well, thank you. As we started, I did take some Spanish. You said you have an affinity for English. I have an affinity for Spanish. I've always loved it, but I just don't get to practice it.

So I don't speak it very Well, you have a growing number of Hispanics living in, in the US, so I guess you will have more and more opportunities coming up.

Yeah, well, I live in the Midwest, I live in Cincinnati, so we don't have as many here. I know some cities that's kind of the primary language in, in the US, so it's, uh, I, I love the, the, the fact that we're learning, you know, each other's languages. Uh, I was many years ago, I was in Europe and I was embarrassed because I only speak one language, but you know, here you go 3,000 miles and we all speak the same language.

It's wonderful to be able to understand each other because we are part of the same family after all, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's great. And while we're on this, I just watched your TEDx talk, and for people that don't know, it's a fantastic talk. And if you don't speak Spanish, if you go to YouTube, you can turn on English captions. So I just learned that today, so I got to Enjoy your talk.

I, I learned about it through you. I didn't know you could see it with, um, subtitles, so it's great.

Yeah, I want to— let's talk about you now. Let's talk about your, your, your journey. And it's really interesting because I knew you have an extensive, like, um, academic career and also in the business world, but you've made this transformation into spirituality and helping people with that. So What caused the shift or how did that come about?

Well, I tried to fit in. I was born spiritual and I have that inside of me all my life. When I was a child, I used to ask questions about the meaning of life and where do we come from, really deep questions that no one around could answer. And I remember when I was at school, one day, one of our teachers will say, okay, what do you want to do when you grow up? To the whole class, right? So people will say, okay, I want to get married, I want to have children, I want to have a great successful career, I want a big house. And when it was my turn, I said, well, I want to become a wise person with a big heart. And then everybody around was looking at me like, where is she coming from? And so I guess it was always within me. But then I tried to fit in. I studied economics at university. I did a master's degree. I married early and I went to work first. I worked in Prada in London and then I went to work in Fontainebleau, which is in a small town close to Paris in France for an international business school. And I had a very good material life. I had a good social life. We have good holidays. We lived in one of the best neighborhoods in Paris. So in a way, I had everything most people aspire to in this lifetime, but yet I felt so unfulfilled because I felt I was not doing something of real value with my life. So at some point I went to do some research because I wanted to write a book about the Tibetans in exile in the north of India where they are mostly settled. And I went there for 3 weeks with the purpose of doing this research, and I ended up staying 3 months. I did not carry my research. And in the end, what I did is I studied with them and with the Dalai Lama, and I realized that that was exactly what I was looking for. I was looking for answers to the main questions. And I was trying to find out more about the nature of the mind and the nature of reality, and I could not find those answers anywhere else before that. So what I did is I went back home, that was Paris at the time, and I realized I could not go on with my former life. So I divorced, I took everything I could in a small car, my car, went back to my parents' house in Spain. I left everything. I left all my material belongings. I left my job. I left my house. I left my plants. And I didn't know what I was going to do. The only thing I knew is like, I don't want to waste my life, but even though I don't know how to earn a living right now, but I really truly knew one thing. I was like, I want to make a contribution to this life. I want to make a contribution to this world. And I'll see what I do. I did not have any particular plans, and it was a leap of faith, by all means. Wow. So what I did is I went to do a lot of studies in the US. I studied mindfulness at UCLA. I did some courses at MIT on psychology and neuroscience and hypnosis in New York, a number of things. And then at the same time, for 10 years, I will go for 2 or 3 months and spend that time studying with the lamas in the northern of India and in Nepal and also receiving teachings from the Dalai Lama. So that's why, in a way, I feel like a bridge between the West and the East. And that was the beginning of my new life.

Wow, that's incredible. So when it comes to the West and the East, I'm obviously more familiar with the Western culture. And it seems like a lot of us have to go to the East to find— when we want to know how does the mind work, we go to the East. Why do you think that is?

Well, because in the Eastern traditions, they have been studying the mind and the nature of reality, the profound nature of reality for thousands of years. And here in the West, we have only been into the mind for what, 150 years? Psychology and psychiatry. So it's a very short time if you compare to the many, many decades, hundreds of years, thousands of years they have been studying what is to be a human being. And I think that's why we have a lot to learn from them. And lots of people have been spending their time, their whole lives studying this and getting some very good knowledge and insights that they will pass on to other people. So it's just a question of numbers.

Yeah.

A lot of people studying the mind and the heart and spirituality and a lot of time, years and years and years. So it's just a question of numbers. They are very much advanced in, in that field. We are advancing technology, but they are advancing in the nature of the mind.

Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. And, you know, it's interesting, as I've, you know, looked back through history, think about, like, I think about Jesus, you know, that, that we're most— a lot of us are Christians, but Jesus grew up in, in the East, you know, and they say he went to India, and a lot of people believe that, and I, and I actually happen to believe that. But I think in, in the West, we fell away from the mind. It was, I guess it's been about 400 years ago when we got all caught up in science, and we've done really, really well with material stuff. We've done, we've done great with that. And we're just now, as you said, about 100, 150 years ago, coming back around to try to, you know, understand the nature of who we are.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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Yeah, and the other thing is, I think Jesus was a revolutionary, and he came to teach about love, unconditional love and forgiveness. And those teachings are very valuable for us. But I also think Buddha, 2,600 years ago, gave a map, a very, very good map of the mind and how to get enlightened. And I think you can combine both of them. It's not a question of choosing one or another. I think we are at those times where the shifting on Earth is happening, and it's not like we have to choose one single current. I think we can synthesize a few of them, the best ones, and then make it our own. So I don't think there are incompatibles. I think they are just— they enrich each other.

Yeah, I, I agree with that. I think that science is our— well, it's interesting when we use the word science because that's— science is actually a method of study. But what a lot of sciences have become materialistic, and, and that's, that's where I think we fell apart, where we said, you know, it's funny because some of them even say there is no consciousness, it's just an illusion. And so But basically, forget about the mind. The mind doesn't matter. It's all about the material. So how do you help people that are coming from that culture start to understand the realities or the richness of the Eastern culture?

Well, I think you have to start from a place of becoming humble. If you think you know it all, then there's nothing else that you can learn. Unless the person is humble enough to say, okay, I want to keep learning. I know some things, or I think I know some things, but I'm open to revising, to questioning my own beliefs and my own security and my own paradigm. Because we live in a society that has only one paradigm, and that's the paradigm of science and technology. So unless you are open to question that, then there's no hope. I mean, yeah, you will just go towards materialism and nihilism, and then there's nothing else I can talk to you about. So unless you open up your mind, there's nothing to talk about. So it's only for people that are open to that. And sometimes that openness comes through a crisis. In my experience, I have been working with people for the last 15, 16 years. And in my experience, people get— are willing to open only when they hit rock bottom, when they have a big crisis that will just shatter their beliefs, shatter their pillars where they have established their lives. Then and only then they're open to grow. And, you know, that's the title of your show, it says it all. So most of the times we are not willing to keep developing. We are just willing to do it when we don't have another option because we are suffering a lot.

Yeah, that's definitely true. But what's interesting to me, and I always love hearing people's journeys because there does seem to have to be some sort of crisis. It doesn't have to be a death or an illness or, you know, something like that, but it's, it's that spiritual crisis. It's that— it's when we hit that understanding, and you did at an early age, where it's like, okay, this pursuit of the material, of the, of just pleasure, this is not doing it for me. Um, and we see people, examples of people that that carry that illusion in their, their 60s, 70s, 80s, up until the time they die. They keep chasing that thing that's not satisfying them. And I know you've worked with some very successful people. And so, uh, I guess what I'm trying to get around to is a lot of us have the illusion, if I just get a little bit more, if I just get that house or that car or that job, that's going to do it for me. So have you, have you seen people breaking out of that paradigm?

Well, it's a difficult one to break, as you said. I think most people will go through that and will just die that way. Yes, I have worked with people from all walks of life, and that includes millionaires and business leaders and celebrities, and they suffer from the same things as anyone else. They have a lot of dissatisfaction and anxiety, because even though they are seen as successful and they may have a lot of things that most people want in their lives, there's always more to get. There's always more to attain. And there's also the fear of losing what they already have. So that deep-seated feeling of anxiety and fear is still within them. So it does the trick. The mind tells you, the ego tells you, okay, if you only have more of this or more of that, of more of everything, then you will be safe and then you will be able to relax. But the thing is, it never happens. And as long as you don't get what you want, you still think that by getting it, you will get there. You will enjoy that peace of mind that you aspire to. And then the people that have already got there, they realize that, well, it's not here either. So I need to keep climbing the next mountain. It doesn't matter if it was the Everest. There are other high mountains that I need to climb because this one didn't make it. It did not give me that sense of fulfillment and lasting satisfaction. It only lasts for what, a few hours, a few days, and then it's like, oh well, now what's next? So it's, um, it's really running and running nowhere, you know, with no direction and nowhere to sit and say, okay, it's time to contemplate, it's time to just celebrate and be content because this is not the nature of the mind. The mind is always wanting more. So unless you work on your mind, you work on your heart, and you start dissolving the ego, then it's the only solution. There's no other way. And yes, you can still believe that it's just a little bit more of this or that. But it's never going to end. The, the, the running is never going to end. That, that sort of race and pressure will always accompany you wherever you go.

Yeah, I think that's really important, you know, and it's interesting to me because I, I look, as I look at people who are wealthy or people who are successful, and I think it was Jim Carrey that said, I wish that everybody could, could be wealthy and successful so you'd understand that's not what brings happiness. But we can look at some of these people that we admire, that we put on a pedestal, that we feel like have everything, and we see them miserable. We see them addicted to drugs. We see them taking their own lives. And I think a lot of it is because they've actually reached that point that we think is gonna bring happiness and realize this didn't do it. And now they don't know where to turn. Time for a real quick break. Make sure you like and subscribe. Liking the video will show it to more people on YouTube, and subscribing will make sure you get access to all my great content in the future. And now back to the video.

Yeah. And the only thing they know now is, well, it's not here. The promise is not fulfilled. And they say the same thing about people when they die, when they don't have their body anymore. It's not that they become wiser. The only thing that they know for sure is that death doesn't exist. But do we have to wait to get to that point to be able to come to terms with the reality of life? Or we can do it before that. Because one of the things that is inherent in our lives here on Earth is pain. So we have to come to terms with the fact that this is painful, that we will encounter pain. Whether it's physical pain, whether it is an illness, whether it is someone that you love that you lose, or whether it's some great project or cherished project that you have and it falls apart. We will always, even relationships that last forever, forever is only until one of them dies. So we will encounter pain. Life is difficult. Life is challenging here. So it's only when we want to avoid that that we go into suffering. So suffering is not necessary, but to be able to do, to not to suffer, well, we have to accept the pain that it is inherent here. And we have to work on our mind and heart and ego because otherwise we are going to suffer no matter what we have and what we attain. Is irrelevant because you can live in paradise, but your mind is with you. And it's not like there is one single reality. It's like the mind is like a projector of movies. It's the same way you go to the cinema and you see the screen and the movie is projected and you get so much into the film. That you believe what is happening as if it were real and you feel the feelings. And do you believe it's real? It's the same thing with the mind. There's no one reality. There are 8 billion realities. And this is because we are our own directors, screenwriters, and protagonists of those movies. And those movies tend to be very twisted. They have a lot of of envy and hatred and jealousy and frustration. And I think sometimes those movies will be able to win awards at some, really, at some awards. So we have to realize that what we are going through, what we are feeling is not because of the reality outside. Is because the movie we are projecting in our minds. So if we want to live in a different way, if we want to be at peace, if we want to live in harmony, if we want to be content, it's not how much you have or what the reality of your environment is, or even what the state of the world is, what you are projecting in your inner movie. And that's really what matters in this life.

Yeah, it's a really good point. And when it comes to the mind or the brain and the way that it works, I heard you, you mentioned this in your, in your talk. So explain to people why it is that we are so focused on what's wrong. I mean, it seems like that's— we people, all we can think about is what's wrong, what's, what's, what, what don't I have, what's, what could go wrong.

Well, this is due to a mechanism that we have, and this is a biological, I would say, element in our brain because our limbic brain was formed, was shaped, was developed 200,000 years ago. And at that time, our ancestors needed that kind of radar. It's a radar of threats, of possible threats, possible dangers. And they needed that because they were in an environment that was really dangerous and there was full of predators and snakes and all sorts of animals that could really be dangerous for our lives. So it was a survival mechanism. But I think today you go out of the door and you don't have a lion that they will jump at you. And we still have the same mechanism. So what this part of our brain does is, okay, it's always scanning what could go wrong, what is it that we lack, what is it that I should worry about? And that voice will always be present in us. And it's very easy for everybody to look at it this way and feel it. It's okay, you get up You wake up, let's say at 3 o'clock in the morning. Where does your mind go to? Does it go to what is going great in your life or whatever is unsolved or potential worry? So, you know, we know, we all know that's what the mind does. So unless we do something about it, we will always be focusing on the negative. Because it's the natural thing for us. That's how the mind works. So the brain is designed for survival, but it's not designed for happiness. So that's why it takes a lot of hard work, because otherwise you're going to be miserable. And that's the easy thing for us to do, to become unhappy and bitter and just fearful of what may come.

That is a really good point. And I've heard— I've been hearing this more lately, and it's really— it's helpful to me to understand the way my mind is, way my brain is, and why it is. And it's not a bad thing. It's not like that's, that's wrong, because that's, that's— as biological beings, we have to keep ourselves safe. We, we have to be aware of dangers and stuff. But all these things can, can— they can go out of control. And I love what you said about it's designed for survival, not necessarily for happiness, because if we just allow it to operate naturally without understanding it and trying to take control, in a sense, all we're ever going to think about is what's wrong. That's just our natural state.

That's why we have— if the mind is left alone, we'll always be trying to control everything. And then it's like, how can you control life? Life is not here to be controlled, it's to be experienced. So that's why we are so messed up, because we try to control things that are not subject to control. And it's so difficult to live with insecurity and uncertainty because it's like, okay, if I make sure that I control everything in my life and in my future, then I know I will be well. That's what the ego says. Okay, good luck with that because you have a lot of work to do and it's not going to work out. So we have to come to terms with it and say, okay, I cannot control everything and it doesn't really matter. I don't need to control life because I know I have the resources, the inner resources to be well, no matter what. So I am well prepared for whatever comes my way. And that's why you need to work on your mind, on your heart, and dissolving the voice of the ego that will always tell you there's never enough. I am in lack. I need to do more. I need to be superior than this person. And I am superior, of course. And I will show the person. And I will have to fight and compete with others to be able to get ahead in life. Those are the voices of the ego that our society fosters and awards. And if we let ourselves just follow that voice of this society and the brainwashing that we receive since we are children, then we have a society of people that are with serious mental problems like we have today. You know, 23% of the population in the US are saying that they have mental problems. They have been having mental problems in the last 3 years. 23%. Why, why do we think is that?

Yeah, well, I think I was— I heard you mention that number in your TEDx talk, and actually I would have guessed it was higher. I would have guessed it's a higher percentage of people that have that because anxiety and depression seem to be kind of rampant in our society. And I think especially among our young people, because again, we're— because of the way that we're training them. And I think we just hit on, to me, a big difference between— I hate to keep saying East and West, but kind of that philosophy is that we have been taught control the world, go out, make it happen, and, and do these things and you'll be happy. Whereas the other paradigm, the other way of looking at it is, I can only control the way I react or the way I respond to the world. And as long as I know that I've got that inner strength, then whatever comes my way, it's going to be okay. And you talked in your, in your talk, and one of the things I love is like this idea of acceptance. So let's talk about like, because when people hear the word acceptance, they're like, you're telling me to give up. You're just telling me I can't control anything, so I might as well just not do anything.

Well, and it goes against what we have been taught, right? Here it's like, okay, you need to make things happen. And it takes a big effort and you need to do it for a long time. You know, I'm not against effort, not at all. I think that perseverance goes a long way. And I think we need to work on that perseverance and hard work. It's just to do it with the right effort. This is one of the 8 precepts that Buddhism teaches. It's like you have the right effort is very important. It's not effort to get ahead. It's not an effort to be very successful. It's an effort to become fulfilled, to become liberated from your ego and all those voices that enslave us. So yes, acceptance is a very important concept to be integrated, not just an intellectual concept. It's a concept that we need to make second nature because the opposite is resistance. You can see it in your own life. When you resist what is happening, then that thing that is happening, that situation will persist, whether it is outside or in your own mind. So what you resist persists. That's how the saying goes, right? And why is it so? Because you are posturing it. So it's not acceptance equals passivity. It's not at all about that. It's acceptance of what already happened, whether you like it or not, and what is happening right now with your permission and without your permission, because it's happening. So what's the point in fighting against something that already happened or is happening? Once you accept, what you do is you have clarity of mind. Clarity of mind to say, okay, this is happening already. What should I do? If you are fighting against it, you don't have the clarity of mind. Your mind is full of disturbing emotions. So you're not going to see reality with any discernment. You will just be reactive to what you don't like. So that's why acceptance is so powerful. Because it puts you in a, in a place of calmness. Okay, this is happening. I may not like it. It may be even unpleasant, but it's happening. So what should I do now with this? And I think when we have and use that discernment, we have the potential to go very far. It's just that we don't do it very often.

Well, when it comes to acceptance, and thank you for explaining that, because again, people think, well, that means that I don't, you know, there's a situation, it's hard, I'm kind of struggling for words here. Accepting what is, accepting reality is a very important thing. You know, if someone, in my case, my daughter passed away, okay, I can either accept that, or I can fight it. But fighting it doesn't change it. And then I'm just spending effort fighting something that I, that I can't change. Accepting what is doesn't mean I accept that this is always going to be this way, or this will be this way. But this is this way. And on one hand, it seems painfully obvious. But still, I talked to so many people that just, just can't accept, you know, what has already happened or what actually is. And that's just just wasting brain cycles. You know, you could, you could be spending on something better. As you said, how do I react? How do I respond? How do I change the future that I don't like?

And this is another, another example, a very good example of how we turn pain into suffering. Yes, because yes, even, even when something really harsh happened in— happens in our lives, such as your daughter's passing away, a trauma, you know, Things are very negative or very painful for us. That happens once, but how many times do we repeat that in our minds?

Right.

That's creating a lot of unnecessary suffering. So it's not acceptance that, okay, the world is really in a bad state, so I will do nothing about it, or my reality is so bad that I will just become a couch potato. That is not about— this is not acceptance. This is just becoming passive. And we are not talking about that. It's okay, this is the reality right now. And action is necessary sometimes, but the right action. And for that, you need to cultivate wisdom because if you don't have wisdom, you will be acting without any purpose. You will be acting for the sake of acting, for the sake of doing things. But some things are better left alone and not do anything about them. And some problems need to be solved for sure. It's not about not doing anything.

Right.

But some problems are to be dissolved in our minds. That's all.

Yeah. Yes. I love that.

And the wisdom is, okay, I need to see the difference.

Yes. Well, you talked earlier about there, there are 8 billion realities. And, you know, again, some people would say, no, there's, there's one reality. There's, there's just the way things are. But there's— humans are, we're meaning machines. We make meaning out of things. We tell stories about things. And people will say, well, this is objectively bad, or this is objectively good. And again, I— one of the things I've learned from studying, you know, Eastern philosophy is, is really trying to move away from that and just understanding that things are, and we tell ourselves story about them. So I hear so many people say the world is so bad right now and it's getting worse, and that's because that's what they choose to focus on, as opposed to there are things that are actually getting better in the world. And you— we get to choose how we respond to things.

Well, I think the world depends on our interpretation of it. So this is the key here. It's not the same world for everyone. I don't live in the same world that my neighbors live. They are fearful of everything. And I live in a world that is totally peaceful. It's not the same world. And we are just, you know, my house is beside their house. So it's not like we are living thousands of miles apart. And I don't live in the same world. So it's really the interpretation of the world. And yes, we can see that there are so many things going wrong in our world today, but there's nothing new about that. Life on Earth has always been difficult. It was never meant to be easy because this is, for me, this is a boot camp. It's not even a school for souls. It's a boot camp. We come here to make, to really, we come under really difficult situations, really trying and challenging circumstances because we come here to be able to learn and develop. And we do that under those circumstances. So we have to undergo those circumstances to be able to become something much, much better, more developed, more evolved. And the Earth experience allows that. So I think I lost track of your question.

Well, I love what you said about life being a boot camp, and we were talking about living in different worlds. And I just tell a real quick anecdote. I was debating, let's say, arguing with a neighbor. We know each other, we live close to each other, on Facebook the other day about, like, again, fearful, you know, being fearful. And I love what you said. I live in a different world from my neighbor because he says illegal aliens are destroying the country. And he even joking said, I'm going to go out of my door now and I'm going to, I'm going to try to dodge all the illegal aliens. Because there are people in our country who watch— watch, I'm going to say it— they watch Fox News. And Fox tells everybody to be scared because the, the aliens are all— they're coming over the walls and they're coming to take your jobs and they're creating all these crimes. And I'm like, no. And I'm confronting him with data. It's like, no, they commit crimes at a lower rate, and etc. But we have two completely different views on what's going on in our country right now. And so it's, it's a, I think, an illustration of what you're talking about. We live in different worlds.

Well, yeah, we have to be very, very careful with mainstream media because all mainstream media is controlled, you know, and it all depends on what the powers that be want people to believe. So if you watch mainstream media, you are going to be biased and you are going to be programmed by someone else that wants you to think in a certain way. So it really doesn't matter if it is Fox News or CNN, they are all the same because at the end of the day, you know, at the end of the day, they're controlled by the same BlackRock, et cetera. They seem to be different views, but it's just the same. They just want people to be confronted, to be opposed, to fight with each other. And we have to go beyond that. We have to see the big picture. And it doesn't mean that there are not— there are things going on in our world, and it's not about ignoring those things. It's about how do we interpret those things? And we can interpret them in a really fearful way. And we can interpret them in a hopeful way. And I think that makes the whole difference. I see that we are getting closer to a big shift in consciousness in our world. And What then, when that happens, it's like before dawn is when it gets darker. So yes, I think there's a lot of darkness here. And I think we will be seeing more things that were hidden and it will have to go to the surface and they will be dark and unpleasant, but it's needed because it's only when you take things down, up, from that hidden subconscious, whether it's collective subconscious or personal subconscious, you need to do that to be able to clean it up, to heal. And you cannot heal what is hidden, what is suppressed. So yes, we are going to go and we are going through a stage in our collective evolution that where we will see a lot of darkness, a lot of unpleasant things, even cruelty. Does it mean that the world is getting worse? No, it means that the world is getting cleaned up. So we are getting ready for a new Earth, for a new way of doing things on this Earth. And I think it's all about stages. We need to go through the different stages. You cannot jump stages. You have to go one by one.

Well, I love what you said about Earth being a boot camp, because I think that's another example of You know, looking at things differently will change what you see. Because if we look at Earth— and I was just talking to someone the other day, I published a lot of YouTube videos with near-death experiencers, and a lot of them will tell us that we're here to learn, we're here to grow. And this fundamentalist came onto my, my video and said, no, we're here to be punished. Humans are just— we're bad, bad, we're bad species. We're going to get what's coming to us. We're here to be punished. So if you look at the world that way, that it's, it's basically a prison labor camp, you're going to have a very different experience than if you look at it like a boot camp. Now, if you're a Marine and you're going through Hell Week, or you're a Navy SEAL and you're going through Hell Week, that is not a great experience. That is a hard experience. But because they know the reason why they're going through the Hell Week, because they know the reason why they're doing it, it's not torture for them. They, they sign up for it, right? They're like, yes, I want to do this. Because it's going to make me better. So just that shift of like, everything is happening to me as punishment, as opposed to everything is happening for me so I can learn, so I can grow, or so I can learn.

Exactly. The standpoint changes everything. The viewpoint, how you interpret things, changes the whole thing. And those of us that that have memories from other lifetimes or of life between lives, or as you said, people that have gone through near-death experiences or people that have gone through regression therapy, you know that we signed up for this. And we know that this is very difficult. It was never meant to be easy. It was never meant to be a walk in the park. It's just the way it is. And we wanted this because we know that the diamond becomes a diamond only when the coal goes through a lot of pressure. We are diamonds in potential. We are diamonds in the making. And we need to go through the pressure to be able to bring out the diamond that will be shining in the whole universe. And as souls from other dimensions, we are honored and we are celebrated because we are heroes for them. We have taken this journey that is so difficult, but we will be enriched by it. And we are becoming enriched if we are able to take it, let's say, in a positive way.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, we're saying the same thing over, but I think it's important to repeat this because it's such a different paradigm than so many people have. It's like just that shift in perspective of— and it's interesting because people will say to me when they find out about my daughter, and it's natural, you know, I'm really sorry, I'm sorry you had to go through this tragedy. That's a very natural thing, and I appreciate all the sentiments. But 9 years after passing, I don't see it as a tragedy at this point. I see it as something that was part of our soul plan, part of our— for the evolution of my soul and her soul and my other daughter's soul, my wife's soul, etc. That's the way I've come to, to view everything. And the things that we go through, all the tragedies going around the world now, you know, people dying in wars and stuff. I'm like, this is a process we have to go through to grow. It doesn't mean I like it. It doesn't mean I don't want to put an end to it. But it just gives me a different perspective of accepting that reality and saying, what am I going to do with it?

And that's what allows you to make something good out of it. Because if you think this is a punishment or this is something that is unfair and it shouldn't be happening or it should not have happened, you will wallow in your sorrow forever and you will have wasted the whole life. You know, and you came here, you agreed with her to go through this and do something good out of it, to just take it as an opportunity for your own growth and your wife's growth. So when you see it that way, then everything that happens in your life is an opportunity for development, for growth, for evolution. And then you make the best out of every single circumstance. And that's what we are here for, really.

I believe that, you know, it's interesting when I talk with clients who aren't quite there yet, I'll say, look, you don't have to, you don't have to believe that God planned this, or the universe planned this, or you planned it, whatever. I do, it helps me. But if you don't, you still have a choice, you can make something meaningful out of whatever it is that's happened to you, whether it's, again, a divorce, a job loss, whatever. Um, and if we look back through our lives, the older they get, the more, more we go through, quote, negative experiences. We realize a lot of those negative experiences are actually what propelled us to the next thing. They— you got like a baby bird getting kicked out of the nest. It's like, I was too comfortable there, so this happened to me, and, and look where I am now. So we can— even if we look at it from that purely materialistic point of view, we can make a choice in our minds how we respond to things.

I remember Indira Gandhi, the former Indian president, prime minister, used to say, I am proud of having had a difficult life. So I think this is the way we should look at it. Okay. Of course, when you are going through it, it's not the most pleasant experience. And we know that but it doesn't mean that it's not meaningful. Right. So it's only when you look at things in hindsight that you realize, okay, now it makes sense. It didn't at the time. It was too painful, or I was too blind to see it, or I was too tainted by my very hard, intense, I would say, emotions of the time. But now I look back and it's like, okay, had I not gone through that experience, I will not be the same person. And I have become a better person thanks to that. Whether it is a divorce, as you said, it's a job loss, or it's a person that you love that died.

Yeah. And that's the thing. It's really cool when you get to the point where, because for, again, it happens. I remember I I've got divorced, I've been fired from a job. And when you're— when I went through these things when I was very young, I could never see anything good. I didn't— wasn't even looking for anything good. And it's like, this is just objectively bad, don't try to tell me this is good, you know. I wouldn't even want to hear it. But now everything that happens to me, I look at it with that, that curiosity. And because of my experience, I've been here for a long time on this planet, I'm like, okay, wonder what might come out of this. I wonder what I could learn from this. And just that little bit reduces the suffering.

Exactly. And that's why we need to work on our minds, because our minds will always go through a motion, and that motion will take you to, okay, I'm a victim of life. I am a victim of society. I'm a victim of my upbringing. I am a victim of my wife. We can always find reasons to become a victim or be a victim.

Sure.

But then if you realize, okay, at some point, at some level, I chose this. And even as you said, even if you don't think that, okay, I can become a bitter person or I can become an empowered person. Why? Because I know that the power is always with me.. And the power is, what do I make out of it?

Yeah.

And that's infinite power, because as long as you are a victim, you can do nothing about it. You need to be saved. You need to be rescued, and you will be blaming others for the way you feel. When you realize that the way you think, the way you feel, and your actions are all up to you, then you are a hero. You are the hero of your own story.

Yeah. Let's talk about your book. Tell people what they can find in your book, Seven Steps of Wisdom.

Well, the book is—

Seven Levels of Wisdom. I'm sorry. Seven Levels of Wisdom.

That's fine. The book is really about how we go through different stages in our development. And when we go through those stages, when we change, stages. And we can look at ourselves when we were 15 and when we were 30, let's say, how our worldview changes, how the way we see ourselves changes, how the way we interpret the world changes, how our truths changed, how our moral reasoning changes. So everything changes depending on the level of consciousness that you have. So we go through different stages. And what is important for me is to pass the message that our final aim in life should not be maximizing the pleasure that we can get, and it's not becoming materially successful. As we are led to believe. And I think we are at that shift in our global consciousness where we individuals need to shift consciousness as well. We need to grow. We need to evolve through all those levels of wisdom to become more than that, to be able to understand that we are not our bodies, we are not our achievements, we are not our relationships, we are not our thoughts and our beliefs. We are more, much more than that. And it's only when you are willing to keep evolving that you do. You can grow, expand, and become more.

So what are some things that people can start doing to make that journey through the levels?

Well, I think the first thing is realizing that this is possible. Because most people think that once they become adults, they have reached their summit. This is what I believe. This is how I see the world. I am right wing. I am left wing, whatever it is. This is completely solid. This is who I am, and this is how people are. So everything is solidified. And the first step is, okay, everything is up for investigation, for exploration, for questioning, and I am willing to keep growing. So the first step for me will be, okay, open the door to growth.

Yeah, understand it's possible and understand that maybe I don't know everything. That's a big step.

And the willingness, because most people are thinking, okay, I'm not willing to keep learning. This is life. This is life for me. And it took me so much pain to have a map of the world. And now you tell me that I need to evolve to make my map better. I don't want to touch my map.

Yeah. Well, that's a good point too, because we talk about the thing about being biological creatures. I think we do things the same way because it's efficient, right? If I'm doing something and it's working, I'm going to keep doing it the same way. I'm not going to change until it's not working. But a lot of times we go through so much pain because we're like, well, okay, this used to work. I'm just going to keep doing it. Or they told me this will work. And it's hard to let go of that because it takes effort to make the changes we're talking about.

It takes effort. But I think we have to acknowledge that we are not here. It's not what we come here for, for suffering. It's not about that. It's not a valley of tears at all. We come here to be happy, but we just have to realize that happiness does not come from the places we are told. And once you do that, you are open to examination. You are open to exploration. You want to study. You want to see if there are better methods that you still don't know about. And then the right effort, as we were talking about before, it's okay. I need to really find what the right thoughts are and stick to that, be able to have the right speech so I don't hurt others with my speech. The right action, yes, is not doing for the sake of doing things, is doing things that have a purpose, that have a meaning, that will be helpful to others, that we are here just to become more compassionate. To become more benevolent, and we are here to become wiser. And it does take effort, but it's an enthusiastic effort because you know that by doing that, not only do you become a better person, you also become happier and you are contributing to a better world. You want a change in the world, as Gandhi used to say, okay, be the change you want to see in the world. But how many people do it? They think, oh no, the others need to change. I'm fine the way I am, you know.

Yes. And you said something again, you know, you said we didn't come here to suffer. And that might sound contradictory to people that say— because I, I always say that the pain is not a— it's not a bug, it's a feature. We, we did come here to experience challenges which can cause pain. But as you said, we didn't come here to suffer. We didn't come here to be punished. We came here, I, I believe, to overcome those challenges. So I, I— analogies, you know, mountain climbing. Why do people climb Mount Everest? But, you know, the old joke is because it's there. And I was watching this, this guy the other day, or I saw a story about a guy who was rescued off, off the face of Mount Everest. And my first thought was, why was he on the face of Mount Everest? Well, because he wanted to challenge himself. That's what human beings do. We— so When people say, well, I would never choose to come to this place because it's too painful. Yeah, some people choose to climb mountains, and I think that's who we are.

That's absolutely right. But at the same time, I think that's why it's important to work on the right effort. Because yes, you can do a lot of things just for the sake of challenging yourself. But I think when you use the right effort, you challenge yourself, to become better and do something with that. And I think it's very important that we include compassion and kindness because without that ingredient, yeah, you can become, you make a lot of effort to become a concert pianist or to become a football player, so many things. Yeah, sure. It takes a lot of effort to be on the top, sure. But then once you die, once you leave this life, what is your heritage? What is it that you're leaving behind? Did you do anything to make a better world, to contribute? Did you really care for others? And I think we have to include this ingredient in our lives. Otherwise, yes, we make a lot of effort. Some people, they spend their whole lives to become proficient at doing something. Yeah, but it was useless because, yeah, they're proficient and I don't know, something that with their hands and it takes a lot of time and effort, sure, and focus. But then when they leave, how this affect positively other people.

Yeah. Do you— are you familiar with Dr. Bernardo Kastrup? No. He is a— he's an idealist, he's a philosopher, he's also a computer scientist. He's a brilliant guy, one of my favorite philosophers. And I was just watching a video of his this weekend. And, and so I believe in synchronicities. So as we're having this conversation, you come back around to compassion Um, he's a, again, computer scientist, PhD, PhD in philosophy, and teaches this thing called idealism, which is that everything is mental, you know. And he was saying that it's all about service. It's like, you know, life is not about, it's not about pleasure, it's not about, quote, happiness, it's about service. And that sounds so counter to what we've been taught because we're taught your life is about you, my life is about me. My life is about maximizing my happiness. And he's like, nope, it's, it's about service. And, and it's— and then people that, they'll say it's about love, it's about compassion, all these soft fuzzy feeling things that we're like. And so I, I completely agree with what you're saying. I think ultimately, you know, when we're young, we're, we're pursuing all these things because we have to, to be financially stable and comfortable to where you can live this life of service. But when you get to my age, you start saying, okay, how can I contribute to the world? And I think that's—

But do you think, in my opinion, they are not contradictory?

No, no. Yeah, they're not.

You can still be doing a lot of service with your job.

Yeah.

And you can choose. I changed my life because I felt I was not contributing. Contributing. So, and I'm still earning a living and you are as well. So I think we have to forget the idea that they are contradictory. We can be here not having to worry about survival because we are earning a living. We are not here to become rich. We are not here to become wealthy. We are not here to become famous. We are not here to have thousands of followers or millions. We are here to be of service. We are here to contribute. We are here, and I'm so glad that you brought it up because this is key. The way we will measure our lives once we leave our bodies will be, how did I contribute?

Yes.

How much I loved others and how my actions what my actions cost on other people, whether it is negative or positive. And it doesn't really matter if you climbed Everest, if you were a famous Hollywood star, doesn't really matter.

Right. Yeah, that's a lesson from— I've talked to a lot of people who've had near-death experiences, and that is a very common thing they say. It's like, when I had my life review, it wasn't about my job. It wasn't about how much money I made. And as you said in your TED Talk, All that stuff gets left behind. The only thing that matters, the only thing that goes forward is how much love did I show, how much compassion did I show, you know. And so again, I was talking about that paradigm of, you know, getting and stuff. But we do live in a world where I work with a lot of people in this industry. Of course, we're all— we're here to serve and everything, we serve spirit. And there's some people say, well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't charge money, for example. And some people feel guilty about charging money because they're like, well, I'm here to be of service. That's part of the world that we live in. So we have to be able to maintain ourselves in order to be able to provide the service. So the same thing comes with— when it comes to self-compassion, because again, a lot of times we're taught don't take care of yourself, you're not important. And some religions teach that. But it's important that we can't— we can't pour from an empty cup. So we have to take care of ourselves as well.

And compassion includes everyone, and everyone is also me.

Exactly. Exactly.

And I think there will be a time when money is not necessary here on Earth. But while it's necessary, it's just an energy of a way of exchange energy.

Yes.

And I think it's what I have seen. I have done a lot of volunteering, and I have even taught courses and workshops for free. And I don't teach for free anymore. Why? Because people don't take you seriously. And it's so funny because it's like, I would love to do it and I have done it. What I have seen is you cannot do it because people have this thing in mind, this belief that if they don't pay for it, they can do whatever they want. So they show up for half an hour and then they leave. Or they come for the first part, but the second part, I'm going in for lunch with my family. It's like, why did you come in the first place? So they don't take whatever you are doing seriously. So I think it's a good way to take whatever you are doing seriously. And even for the clients, when they know they are paying for it, they will be more motivated to do the work.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because they don't want to waste their money. And I don't want them to waste their money either. So it's just a means of exchange. And also, we are part of this world. We are not of this world, but right now we are in this world. So we cannot say to the bank, okay, I will pay you with goodwill. What do you think?

Yeah, it's a very, very good point. And yeah, well, you would just paraphrase Jesus. He said you could be in the world but not of the world. So We are in this world. We are in these bodies. We do have all the things we talked about, all the biological needs that we have while we're in the body, and we have to take care of those. I do want to talk— we're running out of time, but I want to talk to you about your documentary that you're co-directing on self-transcendence. That sounds fascinating. So tell me about that.

Well, the bad news is it's going to be in Spanish, but I hope that we can have subtitles like with the TED Talk.

Yeah.

We actually interviewed Dr. Ivan Alexander from the US. And then we have excellent experts and very wise people on the documentary. I think this is part of my mission in this lifetime, is help people prepare to get enlightened, to go to self-transcendence, to go through ascension. And I will do whatever is in my hands to help that. And I think there's a lot of information and knowledge about self-development, but there's not so much about self-transcendence and evolution at the higher stages. And I think we have to little by little change our, our final ultimate objectives and make that our ultimate objective. But because we are here to learn, but also to graduate. And if we don't focus on the graduation, well, we will not prepare. We can just repeat courses forever. And I think, as we don't like, you know, we said, this is a boot camp. It's not pleasant. So the sooner we graduate, the better.

Awesome. Awesome. Monica, it's been great meeting you. Tell people, remind people again the title of your book. And where people can reach you.

My, my latest book is in English, is written in English, and is The Seven Levels of Wisdom, and they can buy it on Amazon and everywhere in the US and, and worldwide on Amazon. And, and then I have a website, it's my name, Monica Esuieva, so M-O-N-I-C-A-E-S-U-I-E-V-A.com. And, and I have a YouTube channel and Yeah, they can go there. I have— I do upload free content that is meant to help people work on themselves.

Awesome. Well, great meeting you. Have a great rest of your evening. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.