What To Do When You Find Yourself Dead- with Afterlife Explorer Mike Marable EP 368

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Hey there, I want to record a little preamble to my Zoom interview with Mike Marable. Mike and I have known each other on Facebook for a few years. We don't agree on everything. And it's fine when people don't agree on everything. And this concept we're going to talk about today is sometimes called soul retrieval, or helping people cross to the other side. And it can be controversial, it can be a little bit scary if you tend to focus on the negative. But the thing is, I always want to present you guys with the truth. I don't want to sugarcoat things. And I want to make sure that we are looking at the most realistic scenarios possible for what we can know about the afterlife. And I first heard about this concept when I interviewed Father Nathan Castle, who actually helps people to cross over. And I've also met someone at IANDS who says that she does it. So it's not completely unheard of what Mike does, helping people kind of find the light, if you will. But what I want you to take from this is the positive. The great thing is that we do survive. We do survive our passing. The vast majority of people do find their way without assistance. And I think we all find our way eventually. So take what Mike says with a grain of salt. This is his experience. But he's not the only one who's had experiences like this. He also mentions a guy named Jürgen Zieve in this interview. And Jürgen's had similar experiences to Mike. So love to hear what you think about it after you listen to the interview. And here it is. Close your eyes and imagine. What if the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges. Challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried, but what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey there, welcome to another episode of Grief to Growth. This is a podcast dedicated to help you navigate life's most challenging moments and understand the world around us. I'm your host, Brian D Smith. And whether you're joining us for the first time, or you're a longtime listener, we're glad to have you here with us. Today we have a fascinating guest. His name is Mike Marable. And he's a writer with over 30 years experience in the healthcare technology field, primarily, primarily in medical software. But his journey of life took a remarkable turn in 1987 when he had a peak experience that led him to regular out-of-body experiences, allowing him to travel in realms beyond our physical world, the realms that we go to when after we pass from this life. These profound experiences have shaped his writing and the insights that he shares. His current book is How to Have a Good Life After You're Dead. It's available internationally on Amazon. And he's also working on an upcoming book titled The Wild Ride: Time Traveling in Other Dimensions and Dying Every Day, set for release in January of 2025. Additionally, he's collaborated with a published screenwriter on a sci-fi screenplay scheduled for completion in April of 2025. Now, in today's episode, we're going to go deep into Mike's extraordinary experiences and the wisdom that he's gained from his journeys into the afterlife. We're going to talk about things like how the earth has shifted or shifting. We're going to talk about reincarnation, parallel lives and timelines. Is there any such thing as hell? What are the various levels of the afterlife? Why does some souls need for people to retrieve them? We're going to talk about Mike's transformative experiences at the Monroe Institute. So we got a lot of ground to cover today.. And with that, I want to welcome to Grief 2 Growth Mike Marable.

Thank you, Brian. I appreciate the opportunity. Good to talk to you again.

I'm really interested to talk to you today, Mike. You and I have been friends on Facebook for a while, and we've had some exchanges. You are one of a few of a handful of people I know who have had regular out-of-body experiences. So what I'd like for you to do, if you could start, is Talk to me about how this got started, these experiences of you actually leaving your body.

Sure, Brian. Yeah, so in 1987, um, I was your typical 37-year-old bachelor riding around in my BMW enjoying life. I had no interest in anything spiritual, or, um, I was pretty self-absorbed as most young men are. And, uh, living the good life and, uh, had no reason to interrupt it. So one day I stopped into a 7-Eleven, which is a convenience store. Do you have those there?

Yeah, we do.

Yeah, uh, that was the place you bought coffee back before Starbucks, and it was like 50 cents a cup. So yeah, tells you how long ago it was. Anyway, so, um, I pulled into the parking lot and, uh, got a cup of coffee. And I looked next door and there was a bookstore. And I like to read something at lunch. This was pre-cell phone, so at lunchtime you either just sat there in silence or you read something. So I went into the bookstore and, um, I'm, I'm walking around the aisles and I'm, I'm, you know, looking for magazines, but I can't find any. And I smell incense and Uh, there's soft music playing in the background. So it was, I guess, one of these new age bookstores. And I, I didn't know anything about the new age or any of that. A book on a table, it was called Cosmic Revelation, and I picked it up and I'm thumbing through it and I go, well, this, this looks kind of interesting. So I, I bought it, and that day I took it to lunch and I, I was at the food park in a mall, and I went to get some Chinese food, and I went and sat down and I opened the book up, and I'm reading the introduction, and it starts talking about lightworkers and these people who have come to the Earth. They help in the transition of the planet, and just all sound kind of weird to me. And then As I got into it, I don't think I even made it through the introduction before this happened. I started to feel this warm vibration all over my body, and, um, then energy started running through me, and I just almost left my body. And I'm looking around, and then suddenly I'm not even me anymore. I don't know who I am. I'm, I'm like part of the universe. And I get all this information starts coming to me, and I get an understanding of what this whole reality system is. And, and I look around and everyone is shivering with love. This sounds really bizarre. It was bizarre for me to experience it.

I'm sure.

And I'm sure This lasted for, I guess, maybe 3 or 4 minutes, and then it all closed back up, and I was left there just shimmering and vibrating. And it was all— it all came from reading just a few pages of this book. So later on, I kind of figured out what might have caused this. It was the same week as the Harmonic Convergence. Do you remember that?

I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah, so in August of 1987, uh, it was in coordination with the Mayan calendar. There was supposed to be this shift that was taking place according to the Mayan calendar, and people all over the world were meditating, and, uh, they were meeting at places like Mount Shasta and Glastonbury and the pyramids, and it was hundreds of millions of people across the world were meditating and trying to anchor in the new energy on the Earth. I didn't know anything about any of this. I found out about it later, and I— it was that very weekend. This was on a Friday afternoon. It was that very weekend that it was taking place, and Um, so I think that had something to do with it, but I didn't do any preparation for this. I wasn't a meditator. Uh, I don't even know if I knew how to spell meditation. I hadn't read any books. Um, so I guess it was just part of my destiny. And then after it happened, um, as I'm sitting there, I'm just like ecstatic. Uh, with any peak experience like this where you, you suddenly feel like you've had a relevant revelation of just your whole being. I guess I went around talking to people for weeks afterwards trying to tell them, oh, you know, all this is like, it's not real, it's a facade. I've been, you know, I felt like I had been behind on a movie set. I'd gone behind the scenery and seen what holds it up. And I, I saw that it, it's all just this holo— I didn't even know the word holographic then, but it's all this illusion that's created for us to be able to come and play in and learn. And this information kept coming to me, and it was like I was getting these downloads. And, uh, this went on for, I guess, weeks, and then it settled down. And then these energy surges started to happen. And then when I would lay in bed at night, energy would just course through my body and I couldn't sleep. And, and I'd, I'd leave my body and I didn't know what to do. I just kind of stand in the room because I, I didn't know what to do when you're out of body. I wasn't frightened of it. I, I read Robert Monroe's book when I was in college, but I didn't, uh, I didn't really attribute that to anything spiritual or anything. I just thought it was a weird experience that the guy was having. But now I was having them, and thank— I, I was happy that I had read it so I knew I wasn't losing my mind. And, uh, so over the past, you know, 30 years, I've been having out-of-body experiences regularly, 2 or 3 times a week. And, uh, fortunately for me, you know, I had a mentor. You know, Bob Monroe was a mentor in me being able to figure out what to do with this, this ability. But I couldn't understand why I was having these energy surges. And so I went looking everywhere I possibly could. And fortunately for me, I was in sales and The Edgar Cayce Foundation was in my sales territory, and so I kept going in there and talking to people, and I'm saying, I'm having all these weird things happen. And one day I talked to the right person, and they said, you know, um, there's a guy you ought to talk to. His name is Scott Sparrow, and he's a psychologist here in town. I said, well, I don't think I really need a psychologist. They go No, you'll want to talk to him. So I made an appointment with him, and I sat down and I told him everything that was happening to me. And he said, oh, okay, well, I think I know what's going on with you. You're having a Kundalini opening. And I said, a what? He said, a Kundalini opening. I said, well, what is that? And he explained it to me. And I go It sounded kind of ominous to me, and I said, well, where can I learn about this? And he goes, well, there aren't many books on it, but, um, there's one by a guy named Gopi Krishna, and you could go see if you can find that. And I found that, and that kind of scared the hell out of me. Um, but anyway, so I went through a full Kundalini opening, and when I read about I hear people talking about they want to have the Kundalini opening, I kind of smile, because you have to be careful what you ask for. Once you get into Kundalini opening, the tail can wag the dog pretty easily. So anyway, that's kind of how it all happened. You know, my life changed in moments, and it's, you know, I've learned to live with a foot in both worlds. And I share my experiences with people only because, you know, maybe there's somebody out there that's going to be going through this and I could help them. But the one thing I know all of us will go through is that we're all going to die. And that's sort of the territory that you and I share. We're both interested in that topic. What happens after you die.

Absolutely. Thanks for sharing that, Mike. I, um, you know, it's interesting because I, as I read your book, and a lot of us— I'm a meditator, and I've talked to a lot of people who've had near-death experiences, and I know some of us kind of wish we could get to these realms. And you mentioned the Monroe Institute, and people go there and they study. And I hear someone like you, it's like, I just picked up this book and started reading it, and suddenly I I learned to go out of my body, but I guess it's, uh, everybody has a different plan. So, um, you started going out of your body. You said you found yourself out of your body in your bedroom several times. When did you start contacting people who had, who had transitioned? Stay with us, we'll be right back. You know, one of the hardest things about grief, most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack Search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

Well, you know, I'm not sure when it happened, but I would say, I would say probably a couple years afterwards. I'm not, I'm not sure the dates. Um, but I didn't really come looking— go looking for them. I mean, they were coming to me. So I don't know if there's a referral service out in the universe somewhere, but anyway, uh, and I'm, I'm a good-hearted person. I don't, I don't actually go out looking for opportunities to, you know, interfere in people's lives and try to help them. But I mean, if somebody comes to me and they need help, then I'm going to help them. And it seemed like these people might need some help, and I kind of intuitively knew what to do, Brian. I did. I didn't really have any, uh, experience in this. And, uh, then later on I went to the Lifeline program at the Monroe Institute, and Robert Monroe in his books talks about, you know, that he was kind of recruited I think it was in his Ultimate Journey book to help these people who haven't quite figured out what to do after they die. And so I went to the Monroe Institute and attended the Lifeline program, and they had a whole program set up on what you do with these, what we call retrievals. Some people call them rescues. And to be able to help people get to a place where they, you know, can kind of move on to the next stage of their, you know, their life, their continuation of life. And, uh, you know, and that's in the book. I— the reason why I wrote the book is that, you know, I don't— I hope people will read it whether they believe it or not, or— it doesn't really matter to me. I don't have a dog in the fight, but Maybe if they read it, and then when they die, they'll look around and they'll go, oh, I think I read a book about this, and, and know what to do. So that, that's why I call it a modern Book of the Dead, because the ancient texts, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and of course the Egyptian Book of the Dead, it was all written for that purpose, you know, because death is the inevitable outcome for all of us. And when I say death, you know, I sort of mean death with the, with the big D, you know, uh, not, not the little d death that we experience all the time. So, uh, the little d death is like dreams. We're actually dying every night and we're visiting these realms that we go ultimately. And there's a reason why when we cross over, we feel kind of comfortable there, you know, in near-death experiences and things like that. We feel like we're home because we're traveling there every night in our dreams, rather we remember it or not.

Yeah, I think that's going to be a new concept to people, but that's one that I've been picking up on, is that, uh, we do, we, we do go into these realms at night in our dreams. We don't remember them. I think sometimes the memories are garbled because the physics is so different that we don't— we can't comprehend it with our, with our human brain. But I think we are all having those types of experiences. I know you wanted to read a passage from your book. And I think this would be a great time to do that if you'd be— if you do that for us.

Sure, Brian, thank you. Yeah, I think it'll give some context for our talk today. So this is from the opening section of the book. And it's called How This Book Came About. The book you are now reading has the audacity to dig deep into one of the biggest questions most of us probably will consider at some point in our lives: what happens when we die? You may think you already have a good idea. It may be that this book won't alter those beliefs much, but then again, it could. We use terms such as death and afterlife to communicate with each other about the line between our physical and non-physical existence. The reality is that life is a continuation. You could say you're as dead now as you're ever going to be. Your consciousness is an energy that cannot cease to exist. It only changes its state. Consider water, for example, the states it can occupy. Ice and steam have the same atomic structure but are in different states that are influenced by the rate of vibration of the particles. Think of yourself like ice when you're in the physical form and steam when you die. You simply shift frequency, like changing from one station to another on our radio. The reality we go to when we die is all around us. Our physical equipment is efficiently designed to allow us to experience this reality only when we are in the body and awake. When we sleep or enter certain altered states of consciousness, we can access these frequencies. My larger aim for writing this book is to assist people in preparation for what one might term a good death. This involves taking steps in advance of that moment to ensure that your preferences and decisions are communicated clearly to your family and caregiver. You also want to be prepared in other ways involving closure and not leave it for the last days of a lingering illness. This book will hopefully help reduce some of the stress that can accompany your transition, both before and after you've moved on. Think of this as a modern version of previous books of the dead. And his goal is to present ways for people to navigate post-physical life and ensure the best possible outcome.

Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, that, that is a, that's a great passage and a great introduction to the book. So, and I do want to talk about, you know, there's a couple things we're gonna talk about here that might, they're gonna be very different for people to hear. So people might be upset about some of the things that, that they hear, and, and that's okay. We're here to present different perspectives. You can take or leave whatever works for you. Um, I think, you know, one of the things— Mike and I know each other for a while, and we've, we've had back and forth discussions, but we both agree that life goes on, that life continues. And that's the most important thing I want people to take away from this, is that, you know, there's no need to fear death. There's no reason to fear for what's happened to your loved ones who have transitioned. But we're going to be talking about some different things today that about, about the transitioning process, I guess I would say, for lack of a better word. So Mike, you mentioned the word soul retrieval earlier, or soul rescues. And this is a fairly new concept to me. I heard about it first, I was in an IANDS group a few years ago. And there's a woman that was telling me she would leave her body at night, And she would go find people who are transitioning and kind of take them to the next level. And I think that's kind of what you do. So explain to people what you mean by soul retrieval, and why is it that some people need it, and how many people might need something like that?

Sure, Brian. Oh, by the way, I know you, you're interested in synchronicities. While, while we're talking, there's a monarch butterfly flying. I'm in my car and it's flying. Flying around my car. Anyway, I thought you'd appreciate that.

Yeah, it's one of the signs for my daughter.

Yeah, uh, interesting. So, um, I don't usually use— I don't use the word soul. I don't use any, uh, spiritual language. I don't even use the word spiritual in the book because everybody has their own sort of built-in lexicon for their life experiences, and some people couch them in spiritual language or religious language or what have you. And this is a secular book. I don't really get into— I don't want to step on anybody's ideological toes. I don't really have any ideology around any of this. I'm not a religious person. I don't even consider myself spiritual. I'm just a reporter. And so I don't, I don't actually use the word soul. I think that if there is something called a soul, it's more like an expanded part of ourselves, and we're sort of a download of that piece of it into this reality system. And it's a, it's a download itself of something bigger than it. So, you know, it's sort of— I don't want to speak in hierarchical terms, but it's sort of like we're just a piece of something, um, and, uh, it inserts itself into— or that part of itself into this holographic realities system to have a certain kind of experience. And that experience, um, like if you have an experience like I had, you become aware of who you are and what you're about and all that. And most people walk around sort of believing they are who they are. They believe themselves to be— you believe yourself to be Brian, and a lot of the times I believe myself to be Mike, but It helps me function in this reality system to have that sort of, um, interpretation of an egoic self. Well, when we die, that egoic self, uh, egoic self, uh, leaves. It's the same one you have when you go and dream, you know. It's not the expanded part of the self. Um, when you, when you die, you don't suddenly become hyper-aware. Now, some people have near-death experiences, uh, you know, because they're, uh, they now have— they're not locked into the brain, into the default mode network of the brain. They can have a more expansive sense of self, but for the most part, they still have their ego self intact. Well, when we die and we cross over, a couple things can happen. One is that we're fully aware, we prepared, and we kind of know what this is about. We're— we become lucid, just like you have a lucid dream. You can have a lucid death experience, and when you get out of your body, you look around and you realize, oh, I I'm dead. And if you know what to do, it's helpful. I always advise people to, you know, in advance of their death, to kind of have a plan, a travel plan. But if people die suddenly, they may have no preparation for this. And because it doesn't feel any different after you die than it does when you're alive they don't know that they've died. And so they kind of walk around in this construction of a reality that looks like their waking reality. And it does, uh, it's slightly different, but it's pretty much, you know, just a replica of their day-to-day existence. And I'm sure probably all of your listeners have seen the movie Ghost, or you've seen the movie The Sixth Sense. Well, those are kind of realistic to a certain extent. You know, Bruce Willis didn't know that he had died. Uh, hopefully I think most people would figure it out quicker than he did, but then we wouldn't have had a movie, right? Right. And then in Ghost, you know, he decided to stick around and he saw the light and he said, no, I still have to stick around, I've got to you know, help Demi Moore's character. And of course, all this is fictionalized, but that can actually happen in, in reality. People will not move on and they hang around, and then they can go into sort of a dreamlike state. So they, they actually go back to sleep and they start to dream their reality just like we do in our own dreams. The Tibetans call it, call it the bardo. And so when those people do that, they don't really have their life force anymore. So they have to kind of go and find life force, and they'll go and find living people and hang around them so that they can share their life force. And they might even have an addiction Uh, so they go and find people that share that particular addiction, but we can get into that later if you want. Well, because I have a strong life force, um, when I go and travel out of body, a lot of times they will follow me back. Uh, as one person said, it's like walking through a bad part of town wearing a shiny Rolex. So they'll follow me back, and when they do When I get out again, they'll be in my room or they'll be somewhere in the house, and then I know what to do. I go and help them. And what I do is I'll take them to a higher vibratory frequency. And, you know, you probably would ask this question, so I'll go ahead and answer it in advance. People ask, well, why do they need help from humans? Well, we're more in the vibratory frequency that they are in. When they're close to Earth like that, just like we can't see our, our goat, we can't see ghosts, we can't see guides. They vibrate at a higher frequency. They're around, we just can't see them. So I can get them to a higher vibratory frequency, and I can call for a guide, and then the guide can assist them from that point. I usually do it that way versus trying to take them all the way to, well, what they call it, the Monroe Institute, the park. I don't take them all the way to the park because I'm afraid that I'll do what we call in out-of-body experiences blink out. I don't want to blink out and lose them, so I can stay in state and get them to a higher vibratory frequency, and I do that by looking for a light source. So if any of your listeners, you know, suddenly find themselves dead one day, uh, the best thing to do is just look for any light source that you can see, because light is— means that there's a higher vibratory frequency. And if you go around that light and then you just say, ask for a guide's help you'll be able to see that because the vibration level will be high enough, frequency level will be high enough that you could see them. So that's what I do. Um, I'm kind of like an EMT. I don't hang around afterwards. Um, there are, uh, some of the guides work with me on this. I know them, I know their names. Uh, we say hi and then we move on, just like if an EMT drops someone off at the emergency room Uh, you know, they don't hang around and chat. People have work to do. So I come back and that's pretty much it. I mean, it, it's, it sounds all fantastic and exotic, but it, it's actually, you know, like a job I do.

Yeah, I love the way you describe it, Mike. And you're, as you said earlier, you're, you're very much a reporter. You're very scientific. You're very clinical. This is not woo-woo. This is not about spirituality. This is— this— you're describing, this is my experience of reality. And you're, you're very, uh, I don't want to use the word skeptical in terms of slow to draw conclusions. You're not trying to push an agenda on anybody. You're just like, okay, this is my experience. And I have to admit, when I first heard about soul retrieval, I actually interviewed someone on my program, uh, Dr. Father— or Father Nathan Castle. And he was talking about helping people across. And my question was just as you asked, why would people in spirit need help from people in human form? And I think you gave a really good answer to that, because they're closer to our vibratory level. And when we, when we cross over, you know, if you're, if you're at that level that's closer to our level, then you can't maybe see the guides or whatever. So you need a little a little help. But this wouldn't be everybody that's crossing over, right? It's, this is a percentage of people.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's what I think. I mean, these are all, uh, these are all opinions, by the way. Sure. Uh, I'm not asking anybody to, you know, reform any belief system. I've been doing this for 30-some years. The The gentleman that wrote the foreword to my book, Jürgen Ziehwey, do you know him?

I know of Jürgen. He doesn't know me, but I know who he is. Yes.

Okay. Well, Jürgen and I, uh, he's, he's the only other person other than Bob Monroe that I know who has gone into this and the length of time and the depth and the available Consensus Reality System, and we kind of compare notes on it. And also, uh, Emanuel Swedenborg had written about it many years ago, uh, and between us, we kind of, you know, come to some idea just through the consistency of the experiences, you know, of what these things are. And, you know, After you— when you're doing it, you kind of— well, how much of this am I making up? But I don't really feel like I'm making any of it up because the reality that I'm going into— and I don't really have any belief systems that would overlay it and influence it that much, right? Um, I feel like it's as real as any reality and What we don't understand about our— the, the reality that we live in is that we're only seeing one frequency, just like we can't see all the bands of frequencies of light that are available to us. I mean, if we were a bee, the world would look very different to us because, you know, they can see ultraviolet, right? You know, we can see a certain spectrum of light Well, we can only see— and when I say see, um, I mean that our brains can only recreate in our virtual reality headset that we have a certain spectrum because we're locked into this human experience. And it's, it's supposed to be that way for us to fully immerse ourselves into what it is we came to do here. This is a very special learning environment, at least that's my opinion. And that's what I came to understand after I had my experience. That's the information that flowed to me, is that this is a very coveted, interesting learning environment that's much sought after. And if you can learn to navigate it properly, you can really get a lot of evolution of your being by, by doing this. And only the most advanced and courageous beings come in to play this game. That's what was given to me in the moments when I was sitting in that food park, and that's what I've held on to for, for all my life.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, and I think it's— I, I want to emphasize that because it's something I, I work with clients who going through terrible things, whether it's losing a person or whether it's loss of a job, or, you know, what, all kinds of things that people are going through. And they'll say, why in the world would anybody choose to come to this place? I didn't choose to come here. I was, you know, it was either an accident or somebody forced me. Uh, but, you know, Natalie Sudman, who had her near-death experience, she talked about that. I know Christian, uh, Sundberg talks about that a lot, that this is actually like a a great place to be if you want to learn to kind of level up.

Yeah, absolutely. And I love Natalie and Christian, uh, you know, I've interacted with both of them, uh, they're gifts to humanity. They're just certain people that, you know, are the real deal, and they're definitely two of them.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, When it comes to, uh, you know, you're doing these retrievals, and, and again, you said, I don't think I'm making this up, but you've had some, some veridical experiences, right? You've, you've met some people on the other side that have given you, uh, identifying information you've been able to confirm.

Yeah, I, um, I'm very respectful of, um, How can I put this? So, um, I try to be very respectful. I ask them enough questions and I can sometimes get enough information that I can go on the internet and I can find them, but I never contact their families. I don't use their real names in my book, but yeah, I I've done that enough that I know this is real and, and these people actually existed. And the stories that they told me about how they died— I asked, I had one that gave me her email address. I said, what's your— what was your address? And she gave me her email address. So anyway, yeah, it's a real thing. Uh, it does happen. Uh, But I just want to stress for your audience, it's not something to be concerned about for yourself or your loved ones. I mean, even children, you know, if they die suddenly, I think children have a much better chance than adults who have all of these aggregated belief systems and hardened opinions about how things work. Children are open and curious And they will notice that something is different pretty quickly and move on. So, it does happen with children. I've only run into a handful of them. But I would say, you know, for parents who might be listening to this and say, oh my gosh, I hope my child moved on. I would say almost all the time they do. And if they don't, they figure it out really quickly, and there's really nothing— they don't have any addictions, they don't have the same attachments that adults do, they don't have hardened belief systems, and they move on really quickly. But the times that I have helped them have been probably, I would say, the most rewarding experiences of my life.

Yeah, well, um, I, yeah, again, I, I think that there— I think there's room. We have to have room for all kinds of possibilities. You know, we, we want to say that the afterlife is this way or that way, and when people transition, this is exactly how it happens. And I think just like this plane, there are— there going to be different circumstances for, for different people, different experiences. Uh, I would, I would imagine in general children are probably of a higher vibrational level and would probably more quickly, as you said, you're not going to have the baggage that we do. They don't have the addictions, they don't have, you know, the, the heart and belief systems. Because my understanding is a lot of people that are in these, these in-between states, it's because of a lot of times guilt or fear. Um, you know, it's interesting, I know in the book you talk about look for the light. Well, I've heard people on this side say, oh no, don't go into the light, the light is a trick.

Yeah, I've, I've seen that too. Um, you know, where that comes from is the Tibetan Book of the Dead and, um, also some misinterpretations of, uh, what Robert Monroe wrote about Lush. And, um, yeah, I, I know the origin of those, but, um, always go to the light. Always go to the light.

Well, that's good to know because I'm in a lot of near-death groups., you know, on Facebook and stuff, and afterlife groups, and people, you know, I started seeing this fairly recently, like, no, don't go towards light, it's a trick, they're going to make you reincarnate. If you— and, uh, you know, it's crazy stuff gets out there, right?

Yeah, I, I push back on that when I see it, but, uh, people are going to believe what they want to believe. I mean, I, I consider it to be like a conspiracy theory, so they're going to be a number of people that believe that, and Um, you know, there— I think a lot of conspiracy theories are harmless, but I think this one is— this one could have some repercussions that could be quite negative if people believe this. Um, you know, always go to the light. And, you know, it's interesting, I've seen the light. Um, I've gone up to the border of the light. I don't really have access because I'm in human form. I've been turned back a couple times. It's really interesting working with the guides on the other side, you know. I mean, I hear people talking about, oh, I get all this information from the guides, and, uh, you know, I— they give— they tell me this, so they tell me that. And that's not my experience. I find that the guides are very respectful of the fact that I'm still inhuman And, you know, they don't want to interfere with my growth and give me information maybe I'm not supposed to have. So I find them very businesslike, but they are humorous. And you know what is interesting, Brian, I've noticed is that— and I've seen this happen and actually confirmed this with a couple other people that I know that do this, including Jürgen. Is that they will take on different guises to make people feel comfortable. And I noticed this when I do retrievals, that they'll change their appearance as we approach. And I don't think it's trickery or anything like that. I think they're just trying to make the person feel more comfortable. So they look like Aunt Betty or, you know, Uncle John. Parent or something like that, and, and the person that I'm taking look lights up and they hug them and they're so happy to see them, but they just sort of taken on the energy of that person. And, uh, you know, I don't— we don't understand these realms very well. They could actually be accessing that person's energy and presenting it to the person versus like putting on a disguise. I don't know exactly how it works, but I've seen it happen many, many times.

Yeah, have you seen the movie, uh, What Dreams May Come, or read the book?

Yes. Yeah, I saw the movie.

Yeah, my understanding is the person that wrote that did a lot of research on the afterlife, and they reminded the scene where, um, Robin Williams' daughter keeps presenting herself in different ways to him. Um, so there— and you talk about it in, in your book about how Sometimes you'll be with someone and they'll actually change your appearance. Someone that you're, that you're guiding, they'll change your appearance as their demeanor changes.

Yes, when I first find them, uh, they're naked and, uh, they, they will look like they looked when they died. But as I move them up through the frequencies, they start to change and, and all of a sudden They're— they'll look younger, they'll have clothes on. I can kind of tell by how they're dressed, you know, what era they're from. Also by their name. So if your name is Wilma, then I know when you died, you know. So, you know, you get certain clues. They'll tell me when they died sometimes, and I'll be presenting them to the guide and I'll say, this is so-and-so, and you know, I give them a little bit of information about them. Mm-hmm.

So let's talk about, you know, these realms and what they are. And I hate to use the word where because they're not physically located somewhere different. But from our human perspective, we have to use certain words, right? So where they are. So we think of like the realm we're in now, we're going to call this the physical. And then there's, I think the word astral, people use the word astral a lot. That's kind of the place that you're going, right? But this is still an in-between stage because you're taking them, as you said, kind of to the light, to that next level, which is where, you know, we would say the quote dead go, right? They— that's— it's this level that you're going to is a place that's— is it in between? Is it a transitory place?

Yeah. Yes. Um, well, the places I take them to, I call them way stations. So they're They're essentially just, um, they're at— they're a different frequency level than the, the frequency level closest to the Earth, uh, which could be sort of dark and gloomy. So as soon as I get them to a higher frequency level, the whole atmosphere changes with regard to the luminosity. So if I can get them high enough, um, I can get them to a place where it just looks like a cloudy day, you know, it looks like an overcast day. People that have near-death experiences, they go to a landing area that, you know, is almost specifically designed for the NDE. And it's my opinion is that the NDE is, you know, part of that person's life plan. So although it appears to be an accident, I think that for a majority of people that have NDEs, this was a planned event for their, you know, their evolution and growth, to give them information at a particular time in life. Just like I had my experience, you know, I didn't plan for it. It just showed up in my life. Um, but I probably did plan for it at some point and gave my free will, my free will and my agreement that I would go through this particular experience. And I think that's true for NDEs as well. And, uh, so there's, there's a place that people describe when they have their NDEs And we call it the park. You know, other people call it different things, but generally it's a, you know, a beautiful setting, or it may be a place with libraries and, you know, architecture there and things that they see, you know, dogs and other people and pets. And might be an ocean there, might be mountains or whatever. And these sort of illusory experiences are just like the one that we have here on Earth. I mean, this is a reality in a particular frequency level. It looks absolutely real to us. People that have NDEs enter into a space just like that. It's, it's more real than real. And, um, so from there— and this is again just through my experience— Um, they spend some time there. Like when a person will die, they will go there and they'll, they'll sort of be taken through the introduction of what it's like to no longer be human. And they'll be given options of things to do. If they were sick for a long period of time, they, they might go into a a care center. Did you ever see that movie Defending Your Life?

Yeah, it's a great movie. I love it.

Yeah, so it's kind of like that. I'm glad all these movies have come out that, you know, so I can reference them. So it helps, uh, give people examples of what I'm talking about. Yeah, so it's sort of like that, you know. He was getting acclimated, and, uh, so when he's defending his life, that's sort of like a life review. But I don't— you don't actually have to defend your life. But you, you will probably watch it go by and get it. And it's up to the individual probably to be able to figure out how much they want to talk about it. But, you know, and how much they want to learn from it. But there are counselors there. There are people that will help the new arrival. And then from there, they, they make a decision about what they want to do. And some people really are not ready for anything other than an experience that looks like the life they had on Earth. So there are these consensus realities that they can go to, and it's sort of evaluated about, you know, where you're not forced to go anywhere and you have options, and, and no one forces you to reincarnate, for instance. But you can reincarnate at some point, but it doesn't happen immediately, although they would probably give you a quick turnaround if you demanded it because we have free will. But, you know, most people would be advised to, you know, why don't you go here for a while? And these environments look like what they're used to. Some people are really tied up with their work or their artistic, uh, abilities, different things that they're interested in. So you kind of gravitate toward a frequency of a place that sort of fits what it is, uh, that is comfortable for you. If you're a very religious person and you have a strong ideology about what happens after you die, then you probably would gravitate toward a place like that, that, you know, has a strong, uh, religious community. If you're Muslim or Christian or Buddhist or whatever, and then over time you just kind of get comfortable with this idea, you know, okay 'Uh, I had this Earth life, it was interesting, and now I've got this.' And you settle into it. Some people, you know, are really into their work and their job and their career. You can go and work in an office building if you want. I know this sounds bizarre. Um, you can do pretty much the same job that you did. You can even get paid if you want, you know. You can use credit cards to pay for things. People are used to paying for things. So they, they're all set up, all the restaurants, and you can go to bars if you want. Um, you know, people might ask, well, why would I still need to eat? Well, eating is sort of a habit. We're used to eating, get pleasure out of it. You know, you can go and find different cuisines and eat pizza. When I, when I crossed over and met up with my father, uh, I helped him to the light. And then, uh, I went— used to go and back and check on him. And, uh, when he— when I first time I went to see him, he was eating pizza, and, uh, he looked surprised to see me, and he got up and hugged me, and he said, I want you to meet my, my friend here. And there was nobody there. And all of a sudden, this Black man showed up and he said, "I want you to meet Clyde." And I laughed and I said, "Clyde the Glide." And, you know, the guy laughed. And my father was from a certain generation in the South. And, you know, he had learned his manners, but he didn't really care that much for Black people. So people that lived in Richmond, Virginia, and grew up in the Old South, you know, Black people were, you know, not considered equal, you know. And I thought it was interesting that he got a guide that was Black. That's wild.

Yeah, that's why. And, you know, it's interesting because you talked about pizza, and I've heard people say, oh, when we cross in the afterlife, we can't have pizza, we can't have chocolate. I love what Irene Weinberg titled her or her book, you know, They Serve Bagels in Heaven, because when her, when her husband got there, he said, yeah, we, we have bagels here. Um, so I, I, I, it brings me some comfort. I can still— I like to eat. I love to eat. That'd be great.

Yeah, well, when I, um, when I go over there, um, and I've had some incredible, uh, dining experiences, um, in those, in those areas because I'm a foodie. So, so yeah, I, I go and I always want to pay, you know, it's like, that's my habit. I'm like, you know, where can I pay? And, and I reach in my pocket and there are always coins there and I put them on the counter.

That's funny. That's funny. Well, let's talk about some things like, you mentioned reincarnation, said no one makes you reincarnate. So I think we actually did kind of COVID that. But, you know, there are people that are still scared of judgment. I mean, you talked about life review. But is there anybody— is there anybody there that's going to be, you know, it's going to judge me? Are they going to say, oh, because of karma, you've got to come back and you've got to do— you've got to do time as a bug, or, you know, any of that stuff?

Not in my experience. I think that our free will— well, let me just back up a minute. So when we think about these things from our perspective in our linear time, three-dimensional reality, we tend to think of things in a certain way, and they're binary, and it's either this or that. You know, when we when— after we die, if we're open to it— and that's why I have a chapter in my, my book, you know, about keeping an open, curious mind after you die— is that just give up on your beliefs, and there'll be a lot of options open to you that you can't even consider right now because you have the perspective of the human experience.

Yeah.

Over time, that dissipates. So, and, and this kind of— I'm going to get in a little bit in the area that I know people have some hardened beliefs around, but you know, this life is a dream, and you hear that a lot, but we don't really know what that means, you know. We talk about dreams, we use dreams in our, in our lexicon. And, uh, but the reason why dreams are so important is because everything is a dream. We are, we are the dream of whatever created this. So our, our human life is just a dream, a very convincing lucid dream. And we're vibrating at the frequency of our environment, and it all feels real to us. There's no reason why you can't push your fingers, you know, uh, through a wall. You know, there's nothing about your fingers or the wall itself that has any substance. It's 99.9999% empty space. Because there are certain frequencies about physical reality that are consistent, you can't do that. Well, when you, when you cross over, those realities will seem just as real as this does here. But we're multi-dimensional beings, you know, we're having so many different experiences on other levels This experience is for the part that was downloaded into the human environment, into the Earth environment, for that experience. So help me, help me get back on track. What was your question?

Well, you, you talked about— we were talking about, you know, punishment and, you know, reincarnation and being forced to come back.

Okay, okay, I know what— yeah, thank you. I, I You know, in your beautiful, uh, notes about, um, to your people that you're interviewing, you said feel free to ramble on, and I just did one of those. This is great. Thank you for the grace of being able to do that. Um, anyway, but, um, reincarnation from our point of view, we're basing it on linear time, like We live in the illusion of a linear sequential time environment, but that doesn't exist in these other realms. So reincarnation is not exactly what we think it is. We look at a past life and we look at a future life and we think those are all— the past life is something that happened the future life hasn't happened yet, and I'm just in the now having this experience. And that is convenient for us. We would not want all this information flooding our brains. It would be hard for us to stay here. I mean, that, that would be the definition of schizophrenia, probably. But actually, all of these realities are existing simultaneously, so there really isn't any past life or future life. There's only future probabilities and past probabilities. So if somebody has a past life regression, they're not getting the whole story, you know. They're just getting one of the timelines, you know. There could have been, you know, infinite other timelines that they, they made different decisions in the past. And there are versions of us that are making different decisions in other dimensions right now. So we're just part of a Gestalt, a large, you know, I mean, it's hard to wrap your brain around, and I understand that we only have 90 minutes. So what, what people are making decisions about is about what things are, what they believe to be true, and how everything works. They're making these decisions about this from a very limited perspective that we have while we're here in a human. When you cross over, you don't suddenly have a much greater perspective, but you do look— begin to look back on what happened in the life that you just lived as a dream. So if, if you have had very vivid dreams that seem incredibly real, and things happened and you were a different person and you had a different job and all that, You've entered into one of these other timelines, an alternate self. Have you ever had a dream like that, Brian D Smith?

I had one last night. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, you know what I, you know, uh, immediately what I'm talking about.

Well, I think it's a great analogy. You know, well, we have it. We have dreams. And when we're in the dream, it's real. I mean, we would swear this is real. This is me. This is, this is real. And then we wake up in our beds and we go, oh, that was just a dream. And that's so— but, you know, it's hard for people to realize that this is also just a dream.

Yeah, I mean, now, that's not to— that's not to degrade it as an experience, right? But we also need to upgrade dreams as more important experiences than we give them credit for. Yeah, because no less important in my opinion than the experience we're having right now. So people, you know, you've heard the phrase, it's just a dream. Well, no, it's not just a dream. It, uh, if you learn to lucid dream, when you're in your dream, you have to reality test it because it's as real as anything that you're experiencing during the daytime.

Right.

We don't remember most of our dreams, and that's unfortunate because to the degree that you don't remember your dreams is a percent— that is an equal percentage of, of your life that you forgot. Hmm.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting point of view. Yeah, and you're right, I use the term just a dream, but the thing is that this reality, this experience is very important. It's, as you said, it's much sought after. It is for our benefit and for our growth. It's, it's very, very important. But it's also not the ultimate reality. And keeping that in mind, so when we find ourselves in that next reality, which is the next, just the next reality, as you said, being open-minded. Um, as you were talking earlier about people with like religious, uh, baggage. It reminds me, there was a woman, she had died. She was at Leslie Flint's, uh, he's a— for people that don't know, he's a physical medium, and he'd have these séances. And this woman came in and she kept trying to recruit everybody to Christianity. She's like, you guys all have to get saved before you get over here, because she still held on to that belief. It was so strongly held that she was able to find a community of people there that were, you know, that were like her. And I guess, I think her mother was actually even there, and her mother was trying to say, no, you know, you can wake up now. But she was, she was just holding on to that.

Yeah, I mean, there are infinite, uh, we call them consensus realities. Earth is a reality. We all believe it to be what it is. And so there's a consensus around it. Well, that's the same. There are, there are multiple consensus realities. They may be infinite. I mean, I've been to, I don't know, thousands, and they're all different, you know. So whatever it is that you believe to be true, or your preferences, or whatever it is, you know, you can go to that place and feel comfortable there. But eventually what happens— and this is something that guides have actually told me and that I've experienced— is that The reason why people reincarnate more than anything else is they get bored. Boredom. That's why a lot of people want to leave their Earth experience. They're bored. They're depressed.

Right.

They're— they don't— they no longer see— that's why television people will sit in front of their phones or their screens or television. They're bored. And boredom can happen. People think just because you died, you're no longer bored. Well, no, you're pretty much who you are for— I don't know, I mean, it's dependent on the individual, but unless you seek something different, you kind of stay there like you do here. You can get caught in a stasis. In a rut, if you will, in that reality, just like you get caught here. And, um, as I don't know if you read in my book, a group of people that I met up with that didn't want to move on, and, you know, and the guy was explaining to me that his life wasn't bad, and, you know, he still wanted to drink beer and chase poon. A word I had to look up afterwards, but I— yeah, then I found what he was talking about anyway. So, um, you know, and then I figured out, well, if you don't have much going on in your life and you're bored with your life now, just because you die, that's not going to automatically change. So that's why I kind of advise people in my book and anytime I talk to them that, you know, you should have interests, you should have skills, you should have things that make you want to get up every morning because just because you die doesn't mean all that changes. Now, for some people, it may be novel for a while and they're kind of caught up in this new thing. But, you know, boredom can set in at any time. And I always advise people to You know, think about that. You know, life here on Earth can be a long slog if you don't have a lot of interest.

Yeah, yeah, really, really good point. I want to talk to you about a couple more things. Um, one of the things was, I think you mentioned in the book, you know, some people say that we're going through a transition here on Earth. We're shifting to 5D. You know, we're, we're all being enlightened or whatever. But you seem to think that we've already at least survived something that was a pretty major event. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, you know, I can't say anything definitively about it. Mhm. Um, I'm thinking, I'm thinking about how I want to approach this. Um, Can't say anything definitively about that because I don't know for sure, but I'll just tell you what I think. And I think, I think that Earth went through an experience just like human beings go through evolutionary experiences. See, I believe the Earth is a conscious entity. I believe the Sun is a conscious entity. I believe— I'm, I'm sort of a panpsychist in that degree. I think everything has some degree of intelligence, just like, you know, when we meet dolphins or even our dogs or our pets, and they have a consciousness, they have their own intelligence, you know. It's not the same as ours. And I think the Earth has its own, and I think it's evolving, and I think it went through a vibratory shift, a terrestrial peak experience, if you will. And I think it has shifted into a higher frequency, and I think it's sort of shaken up the world. The old ways are dying. And so as we look out in the world and it looks like a lot of chaos, but You know, not everything's going to be at the same vibratory frequency as the Earth. And so the things that aren't are having a little bit of a rough time with it. And the old power structures, you know, are dying off. And this is going to take a while, but I do believe that all of the children that are being born into the world now are of a higher vibrational frequency. And they're going to replace the current power structures and the way of being in the world. This is just the feeling I have. I don't have anything to back this up.

So you're not the only one saying it, Mike. Uh, I interviewed someone, you know, have you heard of David Gaggins?

No.

He's, uh, he's written a book about, uh, metaphysics. I can't think of the name of it right now, but I was interviewing on my program and he said the exact same thing that he's gotten from— it's a— I think he channeled it, or somebody channeled it, and said that the people that are being born into the earth right now, they're not so many new souls, to use that word, coming in, or inexperienced. It's, it's an upgrade. So it's— but it's being upgraded by, by these higher level, uh, souls coming in. So it's, uh, it's raising the vibration of the earth by replacement. As us old people die off, the ones coming in are more advanced.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, as far as, you know, being advanced, I mean, we're all— we're all as, uh, these vehicles that we're in, you know, they were originally constructed, uh, we're like the old models, you know, right? We're the only— we're the old iPhones, right? The new iPhones are coming out, you know, they've more features. Anyway, it's more like that, you know. But the Earth is going to survive. We might not, at least some of us might not survive, but the Earth is going to survive. And the birth rates are dropping, and I don't know if there's any correlation with that, you know, with how things have changed, but it looks like Maybe the Earth is more selective now. Uh, I'm not sure.

Yeah, the Earth—

that's just the feeling I have. I can't back it up with anything, uh, but it just seems like that's what's going on.

So I do want to ask you, uh, because I'm really intrigued about your, your sci-fi screenplay you're working on. So how does that relate to the experience that you've had and you're having?

Um, well, the screenplay, I don't want to give too much away about it.

That's fine.

Uh, uh, it's, it's not about this.

Okay.

It does have remote viewing in it.

Okay.

I got to meet, uh, Joe McGonigal and some of the remote viewers, and I didn't know at the time, but the Monroe Institute was training the CIA for remote viewing, and all of that was going on, you know, right around the time actually that I was there. So, um, but it involves remote viewing and Tesla and a bunch of other cool stuff that, you know, it's going to be, uh, I wanted to sort of be like a Christopher Nolan movie, you know. So, uh, if you saw Inception Love Inception, Interstellar, things like that, Tenet. You know, all of these movies, uh, intrigue me. And so I wanted to sort of read like that. Unfortunately, I've hooked up with a really good actor who has also written some screenplays. And the reason why I wanted to work with an actor is because I felt like he would get the voice of the characters better than just a writer, uh, just a screenwriter, because he can He can read a line and say, well, you know, no one would ever say that, or an actor would have a hard time, you know, making that real for the audience. So anyway, I really lucked out finding the right guy. I found him when I was in Sedona. I walked into an art gallery and we just— it's like we had known each other our whole lives. So anyway, we've hooked up and we've become good friends.

Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to it. I, you know, we've, we've made a lot of references to fiction as we've been talking, and I can think of a lot more. But I think that stuff comes into this world. It's, it's— there's some really, really deep things in those, you know. I don't think we've talked about The Matrix yet, but the, the Matrix, What Dreams May Come, Inception. As we were talking about dreaming and different levels of reality, I thought that was a great example of different levels of consciousness. So, um, yeah, I'm excited to hear about that. And I know you have another book that you're working on as well. So tell me about your other book.

Yeah, Brian D Smith, the next book, I sort of wrote the current book, How to Have a Good Life After You're Dead, for others. I'm sort of writing the next book for me. And it's, it's letting my freak flag Fly. I'm talking about, uh, my travels into these other dimensions, uh, the alternative, uh, lives and time travel. The first thing I, I really was interested in doing when I first started having out-of-body experiences and lucid dreams— and you can use either one for this— so having an out-of-body experience is difficult, you know. I know people teach it, you know, say that they're teachers of it, but, um, we all do it. We all separate from our bodies every night, but we don't remember these experiences. So you can use lucid dreams actually as sort of a portal, uh, to have an out-of-body experience. And a lot of lucid dreams and dreams themselves are out-of-body experiences. But, uh, you can actually use it as a portal to be able to do the same things you could do in a— in an OBE. So I always recommend that people learn to lucid dream because, I mean, that's fairly easy. I mean, I know people that read a book on lucid dreaming and started having them right away. Um, so, um, but out of a lucid dream or an OBE, you can actually move around in different timelines And I'm a history buff, so I wanted to go back in history and visit different places in history. And what I found when I did this was that I'd be standing there in a place just as real as the one I'm sitting in here talking to you. Uh, when you touch things, they look real. You can hear people speaking in other languages. And I'm looking at things like one of the first places I went was the pyramids. And I'm like, and I look down and I've got like sandals on and I'm dark-skinned. And of course you can't find mirrors and things like that to look at yourself, but sometimes I can find shiny objects or I, I can find water and I can see my reflection and I look nothing like I look now. So time travel in these other in these altered states is possible if you can hold your state and you can remember that you had the experience. So that's in the next book. And, uh, also these experiences going to the future. And I, I'm, I'm probably gonna blow all my credibility now for the other stuff because this sounds so outlandish. And for your audience, I totally understand if you don't believe a word of this. I, I probably wouldn't believe it if you told me, but only thing I can say is learn to lucid dream, and then learn how to— when you, when you're lucid dreaming or you get out of body, spin on one foot, close your eyes, and just say what time period you want to go to and what you want to see. And the chances are good that you will show up there. And if you can hold your state, you can walk around, smell the smells, see that— now, is this the actual time period? I don't know. It could be just a record, holographic record of that time period. I'm not sure, right? But, but it's as real as the reality that I'm sitting here talking to you in. And, um, I don't speak these languages, so, um, that's sort of a verified factor. I don't know what these people are saying.

Interesting. Anyway, well, you know, we are touch— we're touching on some pretty far-out stuff here, but the, the universe is much more, uh, I forget who it said, you know, is it Heisenberg that said the universe is wilder than you imagine? It's even wilder than you can imagine. You know, and Einstein, I think it was, or one of his contemporaries said that, you know, time only exists so that everything doesn't happen at once. But, you know, physicists are telling us that time is an illusion. And there is, there is no past. We can't understand that from within the dream, within the construct. Because we're within it, we can't, we can't understand it from within. So I think people, I love for people to open up their minds, I encourage people to pick up the book, read it. As you said, you might find yourself dead one day, and it might save you, might save you a lot of, a lot of trouble.

Yeah. So, you know, just to end all this, I just want to tell your audience this. First of all, I'm very science-based. I probably watched hundreds and hundreds of hours on neuroscience, cosmology, quantum physics. I'm interested in history. This is not who I am. This is just something I do. I don't monetize off of it. I don't— you won't— I'm trying to talk Jurgen into doing a workshop, but it's more about just us getting to travel around the Southwest so I can show him the sites there. But I don't, I don't do seminars. Um, I just— if somebody asks me, I'll tell them this stuff. But, you know, go out and search for it on your own. It's available. If you learn how to lucid dream, uh, you're going to find that reality is not what you think it is. If you have an OBE and you stand in your bedroom and look back and see you laying on a bed and go over and touch your own face, uh, I think your fear of death may get mitigated to a certain degree. So thank you so much for having me on, Brian D Smith.

Yeah, Mike, I'm glad we finally were able to do this. I appreciate your time. Have a great afternoon.

You too. Bye-bye.

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