What Would You Do If Tomorrow Was Guaranteed To Be Your Last Day On Earth? EP 325

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of the Grief 2 Growth podcast. This is a place where we explore the nature of human life, the concept of death, and how to cope and even thrive after devastating loss. Today, I've got the honor of introducing you to an incredibly inspiring individual. Her name is Kate Manser. Many people go through life as if it's a rehearsal. But Kate is here to remind us that embracing our mortality can be a gateway to a fuller, more enriching life. 5 years ago, she found herself in an unhappy marriage and holding down a job at Google, which seems like an ideal position, but it did not align with her authentic self. So life took a drastic turn for her when she lost 4 friends in unrelated events, leading her to question her entire approach to living. Knowing that life is unfair and fragile, she took significant steps to reinvent her life by following her joy and curiosity rather than, as she puts it, societal milestones. She's the creator of a movement called the You Might Die Tomorrow movement. She's an author, she's a yogi, and she lives a mindful existence now in Texas. So her journey explores the transformative power of acknowledging our mortality to lead a life that's true to ourselves. So with that, let's get started with Kate.

Hello and happy today, Brian, and everyone listening.

It's really great to meet you and talk about a subject that's near and dear to my heart, but I know a lot of people find morbid, and that's the idea that tomorrow's not guaranteed to any of us. So when did this become your life's passion to share this with people?

Oh, well, it became my life's passion shortly after I was in total fear for my life for really no reason at all other than my own mind. So, you know, I spent most of my life just like knowing that death was a thing, but just assuming that I'd always have 86 or however many years we get for life expectancy in our country. However, as you mentioned in the intro, I had 3 friends die in unrelated unexpected events in the span of 6 months. So that was not when my awakening happened to the power of mortality awareness. Actually, quite the contrary. It was like all the safety of my life had been taken away. And I, and I, you know, they were all around my same age. And so not only was I grappling with the loss of those individual people, but I was grappling with this, grappling with this really kind of It sounds so obvious to say, like, yes, young people can die and people can die at any time. But up until then, I had never really internalized that truth. And so what happened was I was afraid of death all the time. And many listeners can probably relate to maybe going through a period of your life where you thought you were coming down with the brain-eating amoeba and cancer every Tuesday. And maybe when you're driving, you think, oh my gosh, this car can crash at any moment and it can all be over. It was hard for me to sleep because I was always having these visions of other people that I care about dying. Every time I'd get an unexpected phone call, the panic attack would come thinking it was more bad news. And so I'll pause there because that's, you know, that's before the awakening. But I think for people who either have experienced loss, or those of us that have experienced death anxiety, this is a— it's a very real topic. And And I'll tell you in a moment a little bit how my death anxiety then transformed into this profound zeal for life.

Sure, sure. Well, first of all, I want to say I'm sorry for your loss. And I can't even imagine having 3 friends, you know, die that close together. And how old were you at the time?

I was— well, it was 2014. So, or maybe 2013. So I was in my late 20s. So like 20s, 27-ish.

Yeah.

And all the 3 people that died, one was 27. Two of them were 27, actually, and one was 34.

Yeah, that's, that's an age where you're not thinking about death for most people, right? Like you said, we know intellectually that we could die anytime. Everybody says it, but nobody really believes it.

Exactly. And so, you know, the first thing that I did, like I said, was to just become really fearful of death. And you may have talked about this on the show before, but I think that this topic really bears repeating, which is the concept of PTSD, post-traumatic stress, and also PTG, post-traumatic growth. So PTSD is, or post-traumatic stress, whether you consider it a disorder or not. Post-traumatic stress is, from a psychological perspective, it's when your worldview that you found safety in or self-worth in or comfort in is crushed by typically some type of trauma. So in the example that I just shared with you, when those 3 friends died, my worldview that I get to live to be 86, that I have my whole life ahead of me, and that I'm safe was obliterated. And that is what put me into post-traumatic stress. And so I was afraid all the time. It was, it was that, that really raw, palpable fear all the time of just feeling like I wasn't safe. Now, this interesting phenomenon of PTG that can happen after people undergo post-traumatic stress. And I imagine you're very familiar with this, Brian, because the fact that you're doing this podcast with your beautiful daughter in the background after having lost her at, I believe it was 15 years old, I can imagine and seeing you channeling this into good that you yourself have, have experienced PTG. But post-traumatic growth is when after some type of trauma and your worldview and your belief system being crushed, that we're able to pick up the pieces and put them back together into a new worldview that actually makes us better. And many people who experience PTG feel like, you know, of course, we wouldn't wish our trauma on ourselves or anyone, but that for that challenge and pain, we ended up better people somehow. And I can absolutely say that that is true for me. Would I wish those 3 friends to die? Absolutely not. They were all wonderful people. But I can say that The transformation for me was the idea that I might die tomorrow going from the most terrifying thing that I could think of to after my fourth friend died, Dan, he was climbing Mount Everest. And this is really what triggered my journey from post-traumatic stress into post-traumatic growth. When Dan died on Everest, and I was able to know that here I was putting all my time and energy into trying not to die, where my friend Dan was putting all of his time and energy into trying to live, when we're all given a certain amount of time and energy in this life, that's when I really internally realized that we might die tomorrow is a truth that is out of my control. And so why am I wasting all my time and energy on something that is, is outside of my control, when what's in my control is how I live until that mystery moment comes. And that was when my post-traumatic stress really transitioned or began to transition into post-traumatic growth, and my whole worldview about death and about life and everything in between shifted.

Yeah, well, I appreciate you sharing your journey. And it sounds very familiar to me. I understand that, that terrifying fear of death that can almost paralyze you. But then when you finally realize I don't have any control, and you give up that control, how freeing that can be. Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become. A place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

Oh my gosh, yeah. And I mean, let's be, you know, I was afraid of driving, I was afraid of leaving my house. I was afraid of leaving a job and a sort of path that I thought I was supposed to be in, but I was unhappy in. And, you know, let's be real, I'm pretty klutzy. I could probably die climbing the stairs, let alone climbing Everest or driving a car. And so that was when, you know, the key tenet of Stoic philosophy is focus on what you can control and disregard the rest. And to me, using mortality as a vehicle for clarity, perspective, urgency, and, and this, this, this belief that I'm here for a reason. And if nothing else, the reason is to enjoy my life and to be myself, then. And that was what was the transition for me.

So when Dan passed on Mount Everest, and you said you've you thought that maybe is that the moment when you went from the stress to the growth? And why do you think his death struck you so differently?

Well, Dan was one of those guys who are one of those people who just had fun in everything that he did. And so while I was watching Dan, he and I were colleagues at Google. That's how we met. But mostly, he lived in San Francisco. I was living in Austin. So mostly while we were connected, I was mostly following his journey on social media. So here I am, afraid to leave my house, thinking that I have every obscure cancer you can imagine while I'm watching Dan just have fun playing pranks on his friends. He dated a celebrity and got to walk the red carpet. He started an environmental nonprofit, and then he just— he announces that he's going to climb Everest. And everything that he did was with this air of playfulness. And joy and silliness. And, and so when he died, it was, it was obviously gutting to me. And it was also the catalyst for me to look at things in a totally different way. Because when I compared and contrasted the way Dan was spending his— someone that I looked up to— how he was spending his time and energy versus how I was, which was putting all that into trying not to die. Here he was, willing to risk it all in order to really live. And guess what? I don't have Everest on my bucket list. Like, I don't really feel a great desire to climb to the tallest point of our Earth here. However, I believe that all of our, all of our life paths and all of our living your best life, quote unquote, it's deeply personal. For Dan, it was Everest. For me, it's being present and connecting with people and noticing the beautiful tree outside my window and, uh, and also great adventures of, of the Kate variety. And for you, I imagine, of the Brian D Smith variety.

Yeah. So you were, you were working at Google at the time, which sounds like everybody's dream job. And you were, I believe you were married at the time this happened. So what, how did you decide, like, what things in my life I'm going to change? Um, because, you know, we can't all just start climbing Mount Everest. So how did you go about making this change and what you were doing?

Well, I am, uh, one of my superpowers and also one of my kryptonites is that I live super in the present moment. So I don't typically spend a lot of time thinking about the past, which is, I think, a good thing. I also don't spend a lot of time thinking too far into the future. So, you know, it was, uh, you know, looking back, I think it was maybe— I don't want to say short-sighted, but it was very much like, I'm gonna quit my job at I'm going to go and travel around the world. And so I did that. I saved up and I made this whole plan, and ultimately, uh, I did that. I traveled around the world for 2 years. And, um, but I wasn't— I didn't take time to like really zoom out on what I wanted to do. I really just kind of followed the next right step, which I think that there is a lot of merit in not getting too caught up in what are 10 steps down the road. You know, if I had to do it over, I might have come up with like a 5-year plan, but it ended up ended up working out. And one of my specialties is helping people through big life changes or deciding whether a big life change is for you. And I always tell people, like, I'm a professional rip the Band-Aid off, like, just do the big thing. Quit the job at Google last year. I bought, I bought this RV and went traveling around the country and like, I'm really good at doing that. But that, I don't know that that's always the right thing to do. So if you are considering a big change in your life, I, I always tell people to create a runway for yourself, like come up with like a 1-year plan of like, oh, let's— I will use the example of going on a long-term trip just because that's what we're talking about. But like, oh, well, maybe you start saving money, maybe you start telling a few people, maybe you start giving away some of your things. And so instead of ripping the Band-Aid off and just doing everything in a month-long period, create that long runway for yourself. So then the change just sort of— it's like a it's literally the ball rolling. It gets it in that path and it makes it much easier to make big changes.

Yeah, I think it's— well, I think life's about balance. So, you know, we, we tend to overthink things. We tend to say, well, and you go and you again, you go, you're working for a corporation. I always ask you, what's your 5-year plan? What's your 10-year plan? And I never understood that because things change so much in 5 or 10 years. I don't, I don't have a 10-year plan.. But we do have to say, okay, well, maybe I'm going to be here, so I need to put some money away. So there is that balance, I think, in life. And I love what you said about the next right step because it really comes down to that's all we can really know. It's like, what's the next right step for me? And starting to set those things in motion, I think that's maybe the way to do it.

Yeah. And I also, I do this thing called the highest self visualization. I also do a version of it called the deathbed meditation, but Eventually, we can use our mortality to our benefit because, you know, like Steve Jobs said, remembering I'll be dead soon is the best tool I've ever encountered to making the tough choices in life. In the face of death, all things fall away— fear, embarrassment, fear of failure, and pride. And what we're left with is what truly matters. And what we can see is that there's no reason to follow our heart. And this goes on through history. There's memento mori. There's Ash Wednesday is about mortality in the Christian faith. You know, all of these things. It's an ancient key to, like I said earlier, clarity, perspective, urgency. And, and so if you're interested in figuring out like, oh, okay, yeah, I want to live my best life, but like, what, what is that to me? And like I said, I believe profoundly that it's different for everyone. What you can do is Imagine yourself on your deathbed and it's, it's a warm and safe deathbed, right? Maybe yours is, uh, on a beach, at a beach house with the, with the sea air blowing in your hair. Uh, maybe you're surrounded by family, maybe you're in a comfortable bed, but imagine yourself on your deathbed. You're 108 years old and you're looking back on your life now and begin to really look at how you carry yourself. What job you're in, what partnership you're in, how you spend your time, and try to tune into what the highest version of you, the, the most alive and connected version of you would do in those areas. And then that coupled with the perspective of your deathbed and being at the end of your life will give you a look at things with more clarity than, than you might realize.

Yeah, I think it's a great exercise because again, it kind of takes us out of that, that fear that we get locked into about what if I do the wrong thing and understand, as you said, that all things are going to fall away at some point. So when you did your travel around the world, what was that like? And did you get any insights from that?

Yes, I did. And let me just come back to that. I'm just like, there's something that I feel like I need to say right now, which is which is that, you know, when— what I realized is that death is as natural as being born, right? And that is something that I didn't really think about, especially when I was in that year of deep death anxiety. Death is as natural as being born. And as Ram Dass often quotes, death is like taking off a tight shoe, right? Where we've got all, all of our light and all of our essences in this, this body that we have. And then when we die, it's like taking off a tight shoe and we go back to being the infinite beings that we are. But what I learned in the— as I explored the concept of death being as natural as being born, what I learned is that when those 3 people died, part of the reason I went into post-traumatic stress is because, yes, I felt like the safety of my life had gone away. Absolutely. But also, I was in deep shock that those people could die. Like, it never crossed my mind that, that a young person would die. It never crossed mind that someone that I knew would die so unexpectedly. And so what I realized, like, this is the Grief to Growth podcast, and that's why I wanted to bring this up right now before I forget, is that if we don't create a relationship with death, and if we don't begin to gently accept that death is as natural as being born, what happens and what happened to me is that I first had to deal with the absolute shock that, that that this was even going to happen. Right. And so I didn't even get to the grief part for, for a very long time, because I was reeling in shock for months and months and months. And so if you begin to create this relationship with our mortality and, and understanding that death is as natural as being born, and that we're constantly surrounded by the cycle of life and beginnings and endings, and we— you can notice that in your life to help you become more comfortable with it, then when and I say when, because we will all experience loss at some point in our life. When we do experience a loss, particularly an unexpected one, there will be less of that shock period, and we can just get on to the grieving part, right? And so I invite you to, to consider that not only for the power that mortality awareness can bring, like I said, perspective, urgency, clarity, but also so that it will help you to better handle and move through the experience of loss in the future so that you can minimize that shock period and just get right on to the grieving, which is also a natural part of being human. Grief is—

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's, let's talk about that a little bit more. So when it comes to death, you know, most of us fear it. Most of us deny that it even exists. Like when you said when not if— because people, when we're having these conversations, people always say, if something ever happens, we can't even say the word if I die. And we never say— we always say if, not when. So we fear that, we fear death so much. Why do you think that is? And how did you overcome that? What's your, what's your view on death now?

Well, my view on the fear of death for most people is that we're not really so afraid of dying. We are more afraid of dying without having really lived. But the funny thing is, is that whether or, you know, when or how we die is largely outside of our control. What's within our control is how we live until that mystery moment comes. And I look at like my grandparents, for example, my grandfather just died a year ago. My grandmother, she's 86 years old. And she's really grappling with the breaking down of her body. I mean, she's still actually in great health at 86. But she still is really, you know, lamenting the loss of a lot of her physical capabilities. And she has lapses in memory here and there. And I see a lot of— she lives in this community in Arizona where there's like, I don't know, 30,000 or more people over 55. That's a lot of old people together in a small area. And they love to lament about all their physical ailments and things. But just like you said, it's not if we're going to lose someone, it's when, because more than likely we will all you know, as we, especially as we get older, but also we are, we are all going to die. We are all going to have to grapple with our mortality. Even if you get to live to be 99, because our bodies will start breaking down, which again, our bodies breaking down is just as natural as the going from 0 years old to 9 years old. And so I think that it's part of our duty I don't know if duty is the right word, but it's part of our fully becoming human to begin to let in all of these aspects of life— birth, death, sadness, joy. And I'll pause here after a story, which is that a year ago, or a couple years ago, I realized that I was a fraud. Because last year I went into a deep depression. It was the darkest, most challenging time of my adult life. I haven't been that depressed since I was like 14 years old. And what happened was I looked around and I realized how much I was rejecting this depression, how much I was just so in pain. I just wanted to get out of it. And I was just— I felt so uncomfortable in my own skin. And where I realized that I was a fraud is because after Dan died and I started embracing my mortality, I also started embracing life. Like embracing my mortality helped me feel more alive than I ever had in my life. And I just started talking about how I love being alive, and I'm so grateful to wake up in the morning, and life is so beautiful. But then when I was in depression, I was rejecting it, and I was feeling like this isn't what is in the path for me, and this isn't part of my humanity. And that's where this sense came up that I'm a fraud, because if I truly love life, That means that I have to love all of life, life, death, light, shadow, joy, pain. And so I haven't 100% cracked, cracked that nut. But I do have this awareness that I really need to learn to appreciate and hold space for all of the full spectrum of, of being human. And that is what part of, part of what helped get me out of the depression actually was realizing oh, depression is part of being human. Sadness is part of being human. And so instead of rejecting it so hard, I kind of softened, I opened up to it. And that's when it really began to more flow through me.

Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. So when we talk about, again, death, you know, I think a lot of people think of death as the opposite of life. And if you look up the— if you look up the dictionary definition, I think it even says the cessation of life. So we think of death as, as an end, as a hard stop. And that's, that's why we fear it. What are your thoughts on that? What, what is death to you? Let's get woo woo.

All right. Let's get into all these beautiful beliefs. And I respect all beliefs. And actually, there is the, the keys to immortality, which I wrote about in my book, which is, there's certain things that we can do, or that that we do as humans while we're alive to give us the sense that we will live on. One of them is having kids, right? When we have kids, we're literally passing down our DNA. And, you know, more people will come after that. One of them is religion. People who have religion are typically actually more happy than those who don't. And one of the reasons is because in religion, we're often taught that when we die, we're going to go to heaven, we're going to live on forever. And there's other of these immortality keys, one of which is creating art or leaving something behind like a book or a nonprofit or something. And these are all valid things that we can do to help ease our fear of death. But, but in terms of my personal beliefs about the afterlife is that, you know, I believe in, in that there is God, this like source, I believe that we are all that we are all God, as well that we all have a little piece of God that we're all little seeds of God running around this earth. And, and I believe that we get the chance to come back. So I think that when we die, we go back to being these infinite, sort of all-knowing, not all-knowing, but, you know, more source beings, we get the chance to look back on our lives. And then eventually, we're maybe given another assignment, and we come down and, and we enact that. And, you know, that helps me think like, oh, cool, I get another shot. But it also helps me realize that we are all these just unique beings. And I'll tell a story really quick about a friend of mine, Rose, that she just told me this like 2 weeks ago. And I just can't get this story out of my head, which is that she said that several years ago she went through a depression. She was just— and one day it really came to a head. And she's just sitting out in her backyard one evening and just like, why am I here? Do I even need to be here? Do I even want to be here? What is the point of everything?. And she sat there contemplating that and really just like at this heavy, challenging moment. And soon the evening transitioned to darkness. And as the stars came out, she looked up at these stars and she just had this realization, which is the proof that I'm supposed to be here is that I'm here. Like, we were all, we're all born. We're all given this weird crinkle on our eye when we laugh. And I have this like funny cowlick on the left side of my head. These individual idiosyncrasies and gifts and talents. And why are we not here if not to explore those and to share those? And so when people ask me, what's the meaning of life? I usually say one of two things: either enjoy yourself, because enjoyment creates positive ripples of impact that go on and on and on, far beyond that which we can ever comprehend. Or if you don't like make enjoying yourself as your life purpose, make being really you as your life purpose. And I think that that is a process of one creation, right? Like creating cool things in your life, creating moments. But it's also a very important process of destruction. We have to peel away the layers of our denials and the lies we tell ourselves and the masks we hold up. And so the best proof that I can find that you're here, Brian, and I'm here, and everybody listening is that we're here. And man, we need you. We need you to be radically yourself. And that requires a lot of courage.

Absolutely. Yeah, I have to get woo-woo because that's, that's what we do here, right? That's the show. But I don't— I think there is really hard to talk about these things without talking about I hate the word spirituality even. I, I call it the ultimate reality. And it's those questions that nag at us. And the reason I believe people get depressed is because they ask themselves that question: Who am I? Why am I here? Where did I come from? Where am I going? And they don't have any answers. And that's, that's what causes— to me, that's what causes depression, right? And then if you look at death, it's like this abyss right? It's, it's the end. It's the, it's that great unknown. It's, well, of course we're going to fear that. We, we fear what we don't know. So I think leaning into those questions, and, and however people choose to answer them— people might say, well, I'm still a materialist, I still think that, you know, I just, I'm just here for this prayer time, and I accept that. Well, that's fine if people accept that, if that works for them, that's great. But I think most of us need something more than Wow.

And something you said just now really stuck with me, which was that, that contemplating these questions of who am I, where am I going, like we can over-contemplate them, I think is what you're saying, to the point that like there are no actual like concrete answers, right? So that can really put us into a state of, of depression. But I wonder then if And let me know if you agree with this or not, which is like the only way that we can maybe answer those questions is just by like doing and being. That instead of thinking about it and intellectualizing those questions and looking for some concrete answer that maybe doesn't really exist, we are like Brian and we start a podcast and we meet interesting people and we learn about ourselves and what our beliefs are. Do you agree with that?

I do. I do. And I think it It's really interesting that people need meaning. We are always trying to find meaning. And so we're like, why did this happen? You know what's going on right now in the Middle East? You know, it can be very, very upsetting to people. Why is this happening? You know, if you believe in God, why is God allowing this to happen? What, you know, what is going on here? All those, all those questions that you're right, there's no concrete answers to. None of us people have been writing books about this for millennia. They will continue to write books about it. But we have to answer, we have to seek those questions within ourselves. And the real key question comes down to, I think I said, like I said, who am I? You know, if we understand who we are, then we can start to find meaning. How do I become my best self? What does that mean? You know, and I love the story you told about your friend because we can all relate to that. I think we all at some point in our life sit up and look at the sky and go, why am I here?

Hmm. Yeah. So who are you, Brian D Smith?

I agree with what you said. I think we're all these— we're all aspects of the divine. We are all divine in our right. People, sometimes people get upset if we, if we say that we're God, but Jesus said it. I'm a big follower of Jesus. Jesus said that we're gods. So we are, we are divine beings. We are here, I believe, temporarily in this, in this limited form, to experience all the contrast. And you talked about learning to integrate or embrace the dark and the light, the positive and the negative. I was just interviewing someone the other day, wrote these books called the Team Books, which I talk about all the time, and she talked about the, the vast contrast there is on Earth. And I never heard of her put that way before, the contrast in consciousness, everything from the Hitler to the Mother Teresa. And we come here to experience the contrast and to, you know, and learn to embrace it. And as I said, to integrate it. What can I do with this? So in your life, you know, someone would say it's tragic that you lost 3 friends in that short period of time and then a 4th friend. That's a terrible, terrible thing that should never happen to anyone. But it set you on this path that where you're becoming your more authentic self because of that, you've taken that and you've transmuted it into something that's beautiful. And people can choose, do I believe that's planned, which is an interesting thing to ponder, or did Kate just happen to take this and say, I'm going to do something with this? It just, it just happened, but what am I going to do with it?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I think You know, I'll never— we'll never know the answer. And it is tragic for young people to die, right? Like, we, you know, we think about the potential of living to 86 or 99 or whatever. And, you know, like your daughter. But it does bring me comfort to think that we do get to come back. Right, that your daughter's energy lives on forever. And one of the questions I've been thinking about, like, this is a woo-woo podcast, so I'd love to ask you your opinion, which is, so in my belief system, like I said, like, you know, we die, we go back up to the source energy, and then eventually, you know, we get a new assignment and we come down. But I also, like, believe in mediums, right? So I believe that there are some people that can have these, you know, extrasensory abilities to communicate with people that have passed. I've personally experienced experienced, you know, some really beautiful engagements with mediums. So my question is, like, why is it that, like, that we can talk with someone who's long passed, let's say, if you do believe in mediums, but maybe they're already back? And so I'm just curious, because to me, it's like, in my linear, like, literal mind, that doesn't make sense how someone can be in one— two people or two places at once. Like, they can be in source and be able to communicate, but also, like, roaming the earth as, like, a dog or my uncle now or something. And so I'm just curious, what are your thoughts on that? And I guess if we get into quantum physics, we're everywhere all the time, right?

Yeah. Well, you just hit it with your last part, last part of it. It's, you know, we think linearly, we think of reincarnation as one life at a time. And I am a single entity. You're Kate, I'm Brian. So Brian was Charles the Great, and Brian will be, you know, whatever. It's a lot more complicated than that. It's all of our lives are, they're parallel. So what we call our past lives and our future lives are happening at the same time. We are not singular beings. We are more like collectives, even, even as individuals as we think of ourselves. So, um, and it goes back to the concept I call the team books, that we're all, our soul is really like a, uh, it spins off like, like Source spins off our souls, our soul spins off each of our incarnations. So that's what makes sense to me. And that explains how someone could be reincarnated, but also be in spirit at the same time. It's, it gets, it gets really crazy when you try to contemplate it. But it does go back to quantum physics and, and the quantum law of entanglement, that a particle can affect another particle across the universe at an infinite distance. And, you know, and finite amount of time, or the double slit experiment, those types of things. So it's just what it lets me know, because we can't answer these questions specifically. It's like, we are spirit, we are spirits, period, you know. So whether you think of it as a— that reincarnation is linear, if that works for you, then fine. But it starts— that all these models start to break down at some point. And then I think we move to the next level where we say, oh, it's not quite linear, it's more like this.

So, uh, at the risk of being polarizing, I'll bring this up just because when I heard this, it always stuck with me. Uh, have you read at all Neville Goddard?

Heard of him. I haven't read him though.

Okay. So Neville, Neville Goddard is a, is a, a mystic from the, I believe like the '50s. And he really believes in the power of our, you know, minds to create our realities. Mm-hmm. And he also is, he's a very spiritual person and he's very devout. He's read, read the Bible. Bible many, many, many times. And I once was told— a friend of mine is like a big Neville Goddard fan, and so I'm always going to him for information. And he told me once that Neville Goddard's reading and Neville Goddard's understanding of the Bible is that apparently the number one phrase in the Bible that's repeated more than anything else are the words I am. And in Neville Goddard's reading of the Bible, I am the light of the world. I am God. I am the Lamb, that it actually refers to us, that that is a sort of a code, if you will, that it's encouraging us to see ourselves as just like you're saying, spiritual light, you know, with, with all these incredible powers. And I just thought that was so beautiful, you know, whether or not you think, you know, or subscribe to that belief, it's an, it's an interesting way to kind of break the mind and say, oh my gosh, what if, you know, the Bible is a way for us to help us realize our divinity.

No, I completely agree. I think that, I think that was the message of Jesus. You know, people have taken Jesus to make Jesus God, which is fine, because Jesus, again, Jesus proclaimed himself to be just like the Father, I and the Father are one. But he also said that we are brothers. So if we're brothers, and Jesus is the same as God, then we are the same as God in a certain sense. So it's like a hologram, I guess it's like everything is contained contained. The whole is contained in each individual part. So we can, we can never be separated from that. And, and I think we are— that's the one of the points of incarnating, is to remember our divinity. It's like, it's like a game we play with ourselves. We, we mask ourselves, we come, we get behind the veil, we put on these little costumes, and we run around and we think we're separate. And then at some point we're supposed to remember, oh yeah, this is just, this is an illusion. We're all still part of that whole. We're all, we're all contributing to that greater growth of that consciousness. So I love that, that perspective that he brings to the Bible. I think there's, um, the Bible is really cool if you read it properly, but unfortunately a lot of people read it the wrong way.

Yeah, or, or reading it with, with certain ideas that, that create a more narrow focus in mind. And you said an interesting thing right now, which was is that, yeah, we're sort of like in this costume behind this veil of humanity. But then don't we create even more costumes and veils on top of our costumes and veils? Like, right now I'm really passionate about the idea that part of our reason of being here is to really peel away all these layers. Like I said, that process of creation and destruction. Because the top regret of the dying is, I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself and not the others expected of me. And so what is that but the contrary of authenticity? I wish I'd had a life— I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself and not the life others expected of me. That's the opposite of authenticity. So to me then, if we want to live a life that we feel really good about and we feel like lives leave nothing on the table, you know, we— maybe I spend less time thinking about how I should travel around the world and skydive, although those are really cool things, and more about how I can figure out just like you said, who I am and have the courage to say what I feel and to wear. I actually put a moratorium on myself last year. I was like, okay, Kate, you can't buy any more black, white, or beige clothes because I realized that I feel like I'm a really colorful person, but that the clothes that I was wearing, I was wearing to fit in with a certain thing that didn't really reflect who I am, which this may or may not apply to everyone, but it did to me. That part of my self-expression is wearing clothes that make me feel alive and make me feel like Kate, as opposed to trying to fit in to look like Angelina Jolie. Me or whomever I'm looking up to. And so I really just am so passionate about this, this feeling that, gosh, we're all so unique. We're literally— everybody's different. Even if you have two identical twins or two doppelgangers, there, there's differences, profound differences. And, uh, I've— you probably heard that story about Michelangelo, and he's— he, he said this story when he created the David and when he created many of his sculptures out of marble. But he said that when he got that block of marble. He saw that it was his job to chip away all of the parts that, that were in that marble that weren't David until the David was fully revealed. And I just think that's such a beautiful analogy to us chipping away all of these, these fears and these ways that we hold back and how we try to fit in or follow a blueprint. And I, I am like a card-carrying person who is trying to follow the blueprint of what I thought I should be doing, and I'm now really trying to follow my own path. And that's— it's hard, and it takes a lot of courage. But I believe that it is part of the reason that we're here.

Yeah, well, that goes to what I was gonna ask you about that. You talked about the joy of living authentically versus— I think the term uses societal milestones. And, you know, I think I'm really interested. I'm a scientific person. I've got a degree in engineering. So I'm— and I— but social sciences are interesting to me. Because we have to socialize to be human beings. It's a big part of being human. And we, and we, we socialize, we train our children. These are normal things, these are the things you do. And that's part of, that's part of living in a civilized society. We could not live as human beings without socialization. But then how do we become authentic? How do we become our true selves? And, and what, how much of myself do I have to give up to be, you know, to live in our society. And so again, it's that, it's that full circle type of thing. We socialize a child, then the child spends the rest of his life trying to chip away at that, right? Trying to chip away and find out what's the true me, what's the, what's the true Kate. This, you know, this, this blouse is an expression of myself. Um, you know, it's really interesting, it's— my daughter's probably gonna really get mad at me right now, but she's dating a guy who wears fingernail polish. Polish. And, you know, I'm old, and, you know, my other day he was over and my wife's like, so why do you wear fingernail polish? And he says, it's the way I can express myself. Um, you know, it's like, this is— people express yourself through clothes or whatever. I think it's really cool that he's like, you know, this is a way that I express the way who I want to be. Um, so we've got to— I think I'll learn, like, how do we break out? And when we do, then we feel so good about ourselves, right? Then you like, okay, this is the real me. This, again, this, this blouse is a good example. I love this blouse. I don't care what other people think about it.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And, and it's definitely, uh, an ongoing experimentation for sure, right? Like, you know, that individual might wear nail polish for a while, but then the courage that, that he has to wear that nail polish may give him the courage to— like, like you're lifting the weight of courage by doing something a little bit out of the ordinary. And me wearing this blouse, yeah, it's just like, it's clothes, but also wearing, you know, more expressive clothing and having the courage to be in a room where I look different than other people. That might give me courage to stand up for somebody when they're being oppressed or put down, right? Like, it's all to me courage training. And it's not just about— it's about the clothes, although that's fun and meaningful. I think that any way that we can train ourselves to be more courageous and more authentic is is just— it's so important. And also, you know, as we talk about creating meaning from self-expression and authenticity and figuring out who we are through creating things, right, like wearing nail polish and then destroying our lies and self-doubt and imposter syndrome and all of that, one thing that I don't want anyone to forget is that we impact one another so much and we have an audience, every single one of us, right? Like, we're the main characters and we all have an audience. And by that person wearing nail polish or me wearing a bright sweater or you starting this podcast, which I'm sure when you started was pretty edgy for you, uh, and by, by being our authentic selves that people notice, and it gives them courage to then be their authentic selves and, and to do things that are out of the ordinary. And it creates this ripple effect. And Dr. Irvin D. Yalom is an incredible psychologist. If you haven't read his book Staring at the Sun and you're at all interested in the power of mortality and how we're affected by our our existentialism, I highly recommend Staring at the Sun by Dr. Irvin D. Yalom. But one of the key concepts from that book— so he's a psychologist that people come to him when they're having fears of death, or they just come to him when they're having trouble in life. And he can often, by working through their fear of death, cure them of whatever mental concern is going on. And one of key concept that he has found to minimize the fear of death is this concept of rippling, which is what I'm talking about, which is this idea that by how we show up in a given day and how we express ourselves and how we have the courage to be ourselves and to go after what we want and to create this life, that all of our actions create that ripple effect. Not only does that help you live your best life, whatever that means to you, but it also helps more people than you can ever imagine in ways that you could ever comprehend to do the same. Just think about like the last, uh, podcast episode that you recommended, or a recipe, or that cute shirt that you saw somebody wearing at the grocery store. Like, we're all so profoundly affected by one another. And so don't forget that people are watching you and they're looking to you. And anytime that you show up with that love and courage and authenticity, that it's not just for you, you're inspiring other people to do be the same.

Yeah, I think that's awesome. So when we were talking about, again, why, why am I here, you know, and we talked about— and it's funny because I always think about this guy Kelvin Chen that I work with whenever I bring this up, because some people say we're here to learn, and Kelvin's like, not everybody's here to learn, can't you tell? Some people aren't paying any attention at all. And there are those people that seem that way. But I think that it's a multi-faceted thing that's different for different people. I think we're here to have fun. I think we're here to discover who we are, to be our true selves. I think we're here to grow. It's— Earth is kind of like a school. But we talked about the, the I Am. I mean, what do we call God? Another word we call God is a creator. I think we're all creators, and I think we all inherit— and it doesn't mean we're all artists, we don't all make, you know, paintings, we don't do music, but we're all here to create something. And another thing I get from, from talking to you, and I see you getting very excited about affecting other people. I think we're all here to serve each other. I think we're here to help other people grow as well. And that, if you can start to accomplish that, that is, I think, what— when people get there, it really, it really turns people on. And that's why I love interviewing people like yourself who have— it's because you're— you could have taken these lessons and said, okay, I got this lesson, I want to live my most authentic life, I'm going to travel. You could have become a hedonist and said, I'm just gonna— I'm just gonna serve myself but you're like, no, I'm going to take this and I'm going to share it with other people. I'm going to set other people free. To use like an analogy from the movie The Matrix, you know, it's not just me, I'm just freeing myself. I'm going to set other people free. And that's why I think when people really can start to take off and become their true selves.

Oh yeah, you know, and it's hard, right? When a lot of times when we walk our own path, when we do things differently, we can stand out, which can be uncomfortable. It can be uncomfortable to stand out for being different. We can be criticized. But what I have found is that we plant seeds. So when I first started the You Might Die Tomorrow project, I had a friend who— her mom died of cancer, and she was obviously in a lot of grief, just grieving her mom. And they were very close. And so she was really kind of opposed to this concept of putting a sticker on your car that says, you might die tomorrow, right? Or having my book title be that, because to her, that felt very aggressive. Like, how can death be a good thing? And so for years, whenever I would make posts or do— she wouldn't comment in a mean way, but she made it very clear that this doesn't sit right with me. I don't really think that this is the way, but that was okay, right? Number one, I appreciated having some critical feedback. We don't want people just blindly following our ideas. Like, there needs to be dialogue. We need to meet people where they are. I need to be questioned on everything I do. But the funny thing was, was literally like 5 years later, and this had gone on for like 5 years where she's just like, she's kind of always that person that was there for me to question what I'm doing and be the voice of like, I don't really agree with this. 5 years later, later, she contacts me out of the blue one day. Actually, she didn't even contact me. She went on my website and bought like 5 t-shirts and 3 books and a bunch of my bumper stickers. And she contacted me later and or when I, you know, when I reached out, I was like, why did you buy all this stuff? Like, she was the last person that I thought would be spending $100 on my website. And she's like, oh my God, I finally get it. I get how death can bring some light. I get how death is normal. My husband and I, we bought a school bus. We're going to rent renovate the whole thing. And she was just really finally able to see how, yes, death is hard. It's scary. It's just, it's so, it can be so challenging. But that also, it, it can be this incredible key to zeal for life and urgency. And, you know, really feeling the love for the people that we have with us still. And, and so the reason I tell that story is that even for those of your haters, or the people who just seem like they disagree with you or they throw shade on you for you shining your light and doing things your way, there's a seed being planted. And you never know, it might even be in the next lifetime. But people, they're watching, and that seed may germinate and sprout at any time.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's wonderful. And again, you talked about there's a risk with stepping out and being yourself. And there are going to be people that are going to criticize you when you put yourself out. And not everybody's going to get it right away, but it will resonate with people. And then sometimes the light turns on, you know, sometimes we'll— we can read something over and over again and it makes no sense to us. And then one day we read the exact same words and the words haven't changed, but we've changed. And it's like, oh, okay, now I see what they're trying to say. To say. And I applaud you for it, because it is a very in-your-face slogan, you know, and I have to admit, when I first heard it, I was like, oh, but you know, but it's the subtitle that matters, right? It's not— that's not the end of the story. So when you say you might die tomorrow, you know, it's— that's not the entire message that you're delivering.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, in the research that I did after I— because the moment that I came up with you might die tomorrow was shortly after Dan died. And I, you know, my whole perspective changed on how to use my time and energy that I have and what is and is not within my control. And then one day, I was just struck with this— this phrase, you might die tomorrow. And I just— I felt so alive, and it gave so much perspective for me. And then as I then began writing this book and started studying the psychology of mortality awareness, that certain messages of death can actually help us perform better. One of the most popular ones and one of the coolest ones that I came across was the basketball study at the University of Arizona. So there were some researchers at the University of Arizona and they were trying to understand how a, you know, a signal of death impacts people's performance. So what they did was they got a bunch of basketball players together, they divided them into two groups, and they had them do a free throw challenge. And for the control group, it was just a normal referee wearing a black and white striped shirt. For the test group, they had the referee wear a t-shirt with a skull on it, and they studied how these basketball players performed. The ones who saw the skull t-shirt not only scored more, but they took more shots. Right. And so there— the interesting part about it is that we typically do better with mortality awareness to things that where we derive our self-worth from. So if those basketball players were given a cooking challenge, for example, those of them to where they, you know, their legacy isn't tied up in cooking, like many of them might, might think like, oh, my legacy is in basketball. I want my name to be— I want to be a professional player. I want to be remembered like Michael Jordan. However, if we're engaging in something like cooking, for example, if that doesn't have any meaning for you, you won't have that same up in performance. But for those things that we have a certain amount of our self-worth tied in, when we are exposed to a message of death, like a sticker that says you might die tomorrow, so live today, or a skull t-shirt or something of that nature, it can actually enhance our performance. Performance. They did another study similar to that with those basketball players where they gave them a pep talk. It was a different group of players, a different test and control group. And at halftime, they gave them a pep talk. The control group got a normal pep talk like, you guys do great, like, this is, you know, go team, here's what your plays are. The test group was given a pep talk that said, this is your legacy. You know, if you win this game, people are going to remember you in there, you know, your name will go down in history. And those people performed better, right? Because that is a source of our motivation is how we're remembered and what our legacy is. And I bring this up, number one, because I think that's— it's a way to remember that when we do encounter, um, signals of our mortality, like a sticker that says you might die tomorrow, or Día de los Muertos is coming up, um, that it can actually help us with that clarity and with that performance enhancement. But the other critical part of this, and this is something that you could do to change your life right now, to myself, to you, Brian, and to anyone who's listening, is to look at your life just in this moment. Yes. But also as you go through your life and really be radically honest with yourself, where does your self-worth come from? And the reason that I bring this up is because a lot of us, myself included, it— I think it's part of human nature. We get wrapped up in our self-worth coming from BS places, right? Like achievement. I'm the worst. I'm always like on the next achievement, the next thing. A lot of us get caught up in the corporate ladder, and if I get the next promotion, then I'll be worthy, or having a certain amount of money. But the most important thing you can do for your life is begin to peel away those layers of false self-worth and remember that you are valuable just because of who you you are. That if you never wrote the book or did the nonprofit or whatever, or got the— to be the billionaire, that you are profoundly worthy and valuable just for who we are. And it's certainly a process for me that I'm still trying to, to peel out. But to really understand where your self-worth comes from, and try to get into the idea of that you are worthy just on your own and peeling away those false senses of worthiness.

It's awesome. So what, what have you discovered about your self-worth? Where does it come from for you?

Well, part of the reason I was in a depression last year is because last year was the first year as part of like, you know, everything that I do, my speaking, my writing, the books, you know, my art, I had always had a job on the side, you know, whether I was at Google, or I worked at Indeed, or, you know, I was running this retreat for a while, but I always had like a main job. And so at the beginning of 2022, in addition to deciding that I was going to buy an RV and travel around the country for a while, I decided that I was going to go all in on my entrepreneurship. Well, it didn't exactly go as planned because I had all these expectations that things were going to work out for me. And when they didn't, it hit my self-worth so hard. It hit my self-worth that I couldn't make it as an entrepreneur and that I thought I should be able to make a certain amount of money every month right out the gate. And when that didn't happen, it really hit my self-worth. And so my process of realizing that my self-worth is intrinsic as opposed to extrinsic in my achievements or the amount of money that I make, or, you know, fill in the blank, um, it came from realizing that, uh, I experienced a lot of depression when I put my self-worth in these external factors.. But when I put my self-worth in me and the crinkle in my eye and the cowlick in my hair and the gifts and idiosyncrasies that I have, that's really, that's really me.

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. So how does, how do you, when it comes to this mortality thing, do you practice mindfulness associated with that? And how does that practice look to you?

Yeah. So, you know, when I first realized that death can be a positive thing, I went really deep in that rabbit hole. Like I said, the first thing that I found was the Steve Jobs quote that I recited for you earlier. And it was like, because when I got this idea, you might die tomorrow, and I'm Googling, like, because I was like, why isn't everybody talking about this? Like, this is literally giving me more zeal for life, more clarity, more perspective. And I was like, death is a positive. I probably Googled something so so rudimentary like that. And I came across the Steve Jobs quote, and I was like, oh, Steve Jobs. Oh, memento mori. Oh, like the Tim McGraw song, Live Like You're Dying. It's everywhere, but we still deny it. And so I went down that rabbit hole for several years. But then a few years ago, a couple of years after my book came out, I realized I am passionate about mortality as a key to feeling alive, but I'm even more passionate about feeling alive. Mortality awareness is just one way to get there. So by thinking about death, it can help me make me feel alive. So can meditation. So can interpersonal relationships and community, like you so eloquently said a few minutes ago. There's so many ways for us to feel alive. Mortality is one way to do that. But really, and that's why I actually— my Instagram name used to be You Might Die Tomorrow, and that was like my whole thing. Now I changed my Instagram to The Alive Kate, and I've really rebranded as someone who I explore all the ways that we can feel alive through pain. That's another way that we can feel alive. And, and I'm still very passionate about mortality as a way to get there, because I honestly believe it's probably the most powerful one. But really, I'm most passionate about how do we feel profoundly alive in this life, however long we have. Part of that is being our true selves, like you and I have been talking about. It's mortality, it's enjoying our lives, it's challenge, it's pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone.

All of those.

And because I want all of us to feel alive, whether it's when we're on our deathbed, to feel like we really lived alive, or in this moment right now, to look up at the sky and just be able to put your hand on your heart and be like, oh my gosh, I'm alive right now. And I get to look at the sky and I get to have this beautiful conversation with you, Brian D Smith. And so that's what I'm about now.

Yeah, I love the way you put that. As you were, as you were talking, I thought about about, you know, mortality is one way of feeling alive. It's not, it's not the only way, but it probably is the most immediate and the most powerful one. And I was just thinking about like people that climb Mount Everest, people that jump out of airplanes. I have never understood that, but they say, well, that's when I feel most alive, when I'm on, when I'm on the edge of death. So maybe that's what it takes for them, is that physical thrill to feel that thing that you and I might sit and contemplate Knowing that, you know, because you can do the same thing if you realize that every moment is different, every moment is unique. I was just listening to a book yesterday and the author was talking about like the breeze that you're feeling right now. As I was out walking, you'll never feel that exact same breeze again. That is a form of mortality, that, that everything changes all the time. And it's not just, it's not just death at the end of our life. If you have children like I you know, your children don't stay children forever. They, they grow up, they can become adults, so that the child that you had is no longer there. So everything in life is changing all the time. And that realization gives us a deeper appreciation for, for the moment that we're in, if you can really get to that, that sense of being in the now.

Oh my gosh, absolutely. And Thich Nhat Hanh is like my ultimate person that, that just really speaks to my soul in terms of appreciating the small moments and using that as a way to feel alive. And you talked about, right? Like climbing out of a plane to skydive or climbing Everest as a way to be— because you're right, something about being close to death helps us feel more alive. However, or I should say, and you know what sometimes makes me feel like I want to die? Sharing my feelings. So if you don't want to like climb Everest or jump out of a plane, just like really vulnerably share your feelings. And that's just about as scary as, as any daredevil activity that there might be. So if you can do that, know that I hold you in the same esteem as, as all the greatest adventurers out there.

Yeah, well, like, that goes back to people's number one fears, public speaking, standing, standing up in front of someone else and sharing yourself. We're, we're literally more scared of that than we are of death. And being, you know, being vulnerable and going against the norm, you know, all those things are another way of feeling life. So yeah, as we have— I was having this conversation started off with, you know, you might die tomorrow, but we're also exploring many other ways that people can, can feel more alive in the moment and to be your authentic self. So, uh, really glad the word this is going.

Well, what makes you feel alive, Brian D Smith?

Um, it's really weird because I am an introvert by nature, but connecting with other people, you know, um, sharing what I've, what I've learned and translating that to other people people. I, I'm a huge fan of the movie The Matrix. I brought it up earlier. You know, it's like, it's like we— I think we're living in this world where it's, it's, it's intentionally— we're not— it's not a prison, but it's something that we come into. It's intentional, but we're also trying to get back to where we came from. So it's like waking up other people and saying, hey, it's okay, everything's going to be okay. We're— this is not, this is not reality. Um, it's so— it's helping people, like I said, we're going through right now, because a lot of people say, well, I don't watch the news. And I keep hearing people say, well, the world's on fire. And I'm like, the world's not on fire. It's really not a terrible place. It's what we choose to look at. And a lot of things are getting better. And sometimes we have to go through these things to, to wake ourselves up. So I, I love doing what I'm doing right now. This is what I love doing. And, you know, talking to people, you know, helping people through grief. You know, people say to me sometimes, well, doesn't that make you sad, you know, thinking about death all day long and talking to people who have lost people. It doesn't make me feel sad at all. It makes me feel very energized because I have a totally different perspective. No one, no one has lost anyone. You know, my daughter is not lost. Your friends are not lost. I don't see them as lost. I see them as they're just on the other side. They're watching us. They're there. They went home first. They graduated first. There's a song by Stephanie Mills from The Wiz called Home. And I love listening to that song just because she She talks the whole Wizard of Oz thing, you know. It's like, she's like, my friends are back home, they're, you know, they're watching me. I'm traveling this life, they're traveling with me. So communicating that message to other people and having people really get it, that's what makes me feel alive.

You can make me cry. That was so beautiful. I can't wait to listen to that song. What is it again?

Uh, it's called Home by Stephanie Mills.

I'll send you Home by Stephanie Mills. Okay, noted.

That's beautiful. It's, it's so deep. No, we're all, you know, Ram Dass, we talked, I think we mentioned earlier, we're all just walking each other home. My problem, if I had to pick one favorite quote, that would be it. Yeah. So I look at you, everybody I talked to, we're all, we're all fellow travelers. We're all headed home. Like I said, your, your friends got there earlier. My daughter, at 15, she didn't miss anything. She's, she's still alive and still, still having a great time and wants me to have a great time. Your friends want you to have a great time. And they're, I think they're watching this conversation right now. And they're probably very proud of both of us.

Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah, this is like a totally dumb example that's coming up for me. But so a couple years ago in Texas, there was this terrible ice storm, right? So every day it was like, it was so cold. I mean, cold for Central Texas. It was like 7 degrees or something. And every day in the daytime it would rain and then it would freeze. And so the, the, all of the leaves on every tree every day would get this new layer of ice until each, each, uh, of these leaves was like a glass Christmas ornament with this like thick, thick layer of ice. So what that did is it weighed down all of these trees. And at the time I was living at this, uh, retreat with acres of land of trees around, and it was crazy. It was kind of like a war zone because all I heard during these— this multi-day storm was crack, crack, crack all around in the acreage around me. These tree branches, large cedar tree branches breaking. Um, and there was— I was living in an RV at the time on this property, and there was this one big branch that was coming over my RV. And, and every day the rain would come and freeze, and I could hear it. And then soon it's like scraping the top. And at first I was like, oh my gosh, this branch is on Oh my, it's gonna— it might break. I hope it— I was all stressed about it. And then one day I was like, you know what, I am actually going to take my energy and instead of putting into the fear of this branch potentially breaking and busting my roof down, I'm gonna send it into, tree, you're the strongest branch I've ever seen. You're so strong. Like, you're totally gonna make it. There's no way you're gonna break. You've got this. So that's what I did. So for the remaining part of norm, you know, and then the branch didn't break. And that may or may not have been, you know, it may not or may not have been because I was putting the energy into it. And so one thing that I've been trying to do with this conflict in the Middle East is, yes, I am gripped by, by fear, I'm gripped by sadness, helplessness, but I try every day to put my energy away from that fear and sadness and instead into strength for the leaders to make the most humane and loving decisions possible. I put my energy into giving strength to the people that are being bombed and the people that are being held hostage on both sides. And so I encourage you that if you do watch the news, great. Like you said, I don't— I think you said that so beautifully. I don't think the world is on fire. We— I think we're also in the internet age. We just get so much more information. It can feel like more now, but there's always conflict. But don't forget to put your creation— just like you said earlier, Brian D Smith, we're all creators. Put your creative energy energy into envisioning peace in this conflict, into the branch not breaking over your roof. And if nothing else, whether or not you believe that that actually creates a ripple or a change in the world, it definitely feels better to put our energy into strength and hope than into hopelessness and fear.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a beautiful example that you gave, because in any circumstance, we can choose what we want to focus on. So you can focus on that branch breaking, or you can focus on that branch not breaking. And you chose to focus on the branch not breaking. And as we said, it's, it's whether it physically changes the branch or not, we do know it changes us. And I was talking with a friend the other day, we were talking about the conflict in the Middle East. And I don't know if you saw it, but there was a woman, Israeli woman, who was released by Hamas. And as she was leaving, she reached back and she shook the hand of one of her actors. And that, just that moment, could, could change things, right? So we can focus on that moment, on the humanity, as you said, the humanity on both sides. Um, it's a, it's a terrible conflict, but I think it's, it's a— I look at it as it's a lesson for all of us. It's a lesson for the world. And hopefully we'll, we'll look at the horrors that are going there and say, we don't want to do this anymore. And I'm 62. I've been living with war since I was 5 years old, I could see it on TV. I never understood on this planet why people kill each other. And I keep hoping one day we're going to figure it out. I don't know which, which conflict it's going to take, but I always have hope. Maybe this is the one.

We always have hope. Yeah, I mean, we have to. I like to say these days, especially when I was in that depression last year, one of the things that got me out of the depression, or one of the things I think that got me into the depression, was thinking that everything had to happen in linear order that, oh, I'm going to do this project and it's going to lead to this thing, and then I'm going to get this amount of money. And when things didn't go that way, it just felt so heavy, like, oh my gosh, there's so many steps to where I want to go. And so now I like to say I like to keep 3 toes in the unreasonable or the illogical. Like, okay, so we have 10 toes. Keep at least 3. Maybe you don't want to keep all 10 in the fantasy hope land, but keep at least 3 in the hope and in the illogical. Because number one, we have to have hope. That's part of what makes us human. And number two, not everything happens in linear order. Miracles happen every single day. An unexpected person or opportunity can come into your life at any moment, and it happens all the time. We hear about it. And so don't just get too caught up. Like, yes, does it seem like a lot more people are going to die in this conflict? Yes, it seems like that. But I have to hope that something can radically change. And so keep 3 toes in the unreasonable, because unreasonable and illogical things happen every single day.

Yeah. Well, I could go on and on with you, but we probably should wrap it up at this point. But I want to again, thank you very much. It's been a pleasure meeting you. Tell people where they can find out more about you. Tell people about your book and remind people of the title and your, your merchandise.

Thank you. It's been such a pleasure connecting with you and just having this like far-reaching, beautiful conversation. And yeah, you can find me at katemanser.com, K-A-T-E-M-A-N-S-E-R.com. On TikTok and Instagram, I'm @thealivekate. And if you are seeking a speaker, I speak to groups, associations, corporations, and other groups about authenticity and finding purpose in our every— in aliveness. In our everyday life. I also do coaching. So if you are navigating a big change in your life, or you are seeking to build your courage and your own authenticity and bravery to be your real self, those are my zones of genius. And, um, my book is called You Might Die Tomorrow, So Live Today. I also have a workbook. And most of all, if you forget everything, don't forget to enjoy your life. It sounds selfish,. But as we talked about with Dan, I don't think I would've been so touched by Dan. You know, he did a lot of cool things, right? Like the cool— he had a way cooler job than me at Google, uh, and the nonprofit and the, you know, this and the money and that. But he had fun in everything that he did, and that's why I noticed him. And so don't think that having fun and enjoying our lives every day is frivolous because I think it's actually one of the most important things.

Wow. Thank you. That was great. I'm gonna leave with that. Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you, Brian D Smith.

Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 Lessons That You Can Learn From the Near-Death Experience Without Going Through All the Trouble of Dying to Learn Them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe the NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grief-the-number-2-growth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.