Ep. 1: The Reality of Running a Travel Brand with Lauren Bates of Wild Terrains

Literally, I think the day that like the world shut down, there was, I was supposed to fly to Portugal the next day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Welcome to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I'm Claire Sellers, a business mentor and coach who is absolutely obsessed with helping you create the business of your dreams and your most prosperous life. Tune in for inspiring conversations with extraordinary women that will propel you towards becoming the prosperous woman you deserve. Okay. I am so excited for today's show. We have one of my favorite people in the world, one of my favorite clients. I know I'm not supposed to have favorites, but I'm just absolutely obsessed. We're here with Lauren Bates, the founder of Wild Terrains, which if you don't know, is the leading women-owned, women-led, women-run travel brand. It's been featured in like literally every major media outlet. If you're not already following Wild Terrain, you will be soon, and you will be following Lauren as well. So Lauren, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Yay. So I always like to give people like a little bit of context on how we met, and I have such a clear memory of actually the first time we met. You came to my— you had just hired me as your coach. And when did you actually start Wild Trains? We're going to go into the whole story, but when, just for timeline, what year did you start Wild Trains?

Beginning of 2018.

Okay. And you hired me, it was, I want to say around March 2020.

Yeah, it was like March 1st we signed the contracts.

Yeah.

And I was in Mexico City the first week of March. I have such a vivid memory of this too.

And we sat in a conference room in WeWork in Mexico City.

Yeah.

And you were like, I think that like the world's gonna shut down. And I was like, really? And you were like, and you were like, yeah, like I don't even know if travel can continue. And I was like, I don't know. And then literally—

Like 3 days later.

Everything stopped.

I don't think I thought it was going to end either. I was just kind of like expressing anxiety in that meeting.

You were anxious and I was like, Lauren, it's going to be fine.

It'll be fine.

You know, I'm like, let's not panic. I'm sure that was my approach. I was like, let's not panic, you know, because I just don't think anyone really knew what was about to happen. And You know, as the founder of a very new travel company, I mean, the world shutting down literally was earth-shattering. So fortunately, you know, you had already— fortunately or unfortunately, you had already brought me on board to support you.

And I'm like, how do I take back that credit card?

In, you know, helping you to, to continue to launch and grow and scale Wild Terrains in your very unique way. And we did a lot of pivoting, a lot of tap dancing, and we're going to get into all of that because, you know, as I always say, and I know you believe this too, like, everything happens for a reason. From, you know, the timing of you signing on to work with me, to the timing of COVID to the the where you were in the Wild Terrains journey, like it was all perfect. And so many businesses did not survive that time, especially travel businesses. And, you know, I think one of the reasons, and we're going to get into, I want you to, to really peel back the curtain on like how you navigated that. But I just have to first and foremost say that like the thing I admire so much about you and, you know, I've said this all over the place, on my Instagram, on your website, wherever. I really think that you are one of the most purpose-led, heart-led leaders of this generation. And I think that that is why Wildterrains is where it is today and why you survived that period against literally all odds.

I think it literally was—

Merci. You're brilliant and you have a heart of gold.

I don't know about all that, but I mean—

And you're humble also.

I think it— I mean, thank God I had signed on with you. I do, I do believe— I think one of the most important things, and you hear this everywhere about being an entrepreneur, is making sure your mindset is sound, strong, nourished, like you're taking care of yourself. And I think Part of that is trusting that everything happens for a reason. So even when the bad stuff shows up, it's how can you find the silver linings? What can you learn from it? So I think that in a way it was like divine timing, right? Like I had signed with you. I don't break contracts when I sign them. So it was a done deal and we pivoted and thank God I had you, you know, alongside me during that period because it was so stressful. I mean, I think it's easy now to look back and say, oh, we weathered the storm and we did really well. But I was so anxious every day. And I feel like we kind of collectively have forgotten the trauma of like the rolling sort of cancellations that happened. Like we were like, okay, we'll cancel everything for March and then we'll cancel everything for April.

We were going month by month. I remember that. Yeah.

People who had weddings, like not even just people in the travel industry, anyone who had anything planned, you know, and— And I think that process was extremely stressful. And in a way, it brought out the best in some people and it brought out the worst in other people. And I was juggling dealing with— it's a people-heavy business, so I was juggling dealing with every day. Totally.

So I would love to hear, like, what were you— what led you to Wild Terrains? Because, like, you— I think a lot of people just think like, oh, you've always been in travel and And that's actually not really the case. Your background and your, your career path prepared you so well for this in the most unexpected way. And I think that it's really inspiring for, for people to hear, like, you're always living your purpose, even if you're in a day job or even if you're in a stressful job. Like, it— you will see how, oh my God, that prepared me for the thing that was my actual dream. So give us the context on, like, what your— what was your, like, pre-life, pre-WildTrains career?

Yeah, so the SparkNotes version is I got a degree in math. So I'm like a—

Which is so interesting.

So funny, I'm a mathematician. It's my, I have my dual degree, so it's math and Spanish. And then this was where the travel piece came up. I studied abroad in college in Argentina and Peru. So I had a little bit of Argentina in there, which is one of our destinations. And then I graduated college a year early because I had a lot of AP credits. And so it gave me basically like a year free of college. And I went backpacking through Southeast Asia. And that, the very short version of that is I had applied for a fellowship that would've paid for the travel. And I had to propose like what I would study. And my proposal was women's rights. In all of, in like 7 countries. And I didn't get it. And so I did like my own version. And I think I had a budget of $5,000 for 7 months. I had no money. I scrimped. Like it was a true backpacking trip and I was volunteering everywhere, so I wasn't really making any money.

Wow.

It was just money I had saved like during working during college. So, but then I got back home And I was kind of disillusioned. I was working with a lot of nonprofits and love nonprofits. I think they do amazing work. For me personally, the like energy in a nonprofit felt a little slow to me. And so then I was like, okay, I have a math degree. It was right after the 2008 crash, so like the job market was terrible. I love travel, but I felt like even though that trip was very successful, I felt like actually what I was seeking was confirmation that I wanted to go into a nonprofit organization. And then the result was no, I don't actually want to do that. And so I was like, what am I going to do? So I got a job. My mom, you know, kind of steered me toward this. I got a job at PricewaterhouseCoopers as like a financial consultant and was bored out of my mind. Like so bored. I lived in New York. That was super fun. It was a good, you know, a good paying job. Made a lot of friends doing it. I feel like I learned some like professional skills, but I was really bored. So then I started looking for other jobs and I ended up finding a job at an advertising agency. That is really where I say I got my like marketing MBA or master's.

Yeah.

I really like, it was like a crash course and it was an agency that was really run I mean, if anyone's ever worked in an ad agency, it's like a collective trauma that we've all experienced.

Mm-hmm.

So we worked like to the bone and I feel like I, and actually two of my best friends came from that job and we all just like have really excelled, I think, in our careers because we had this like terrible job that really pushed us. And they, that job paid like $40,000 a year or something. It was, we were terribly paid, like everything was terrible about it. And so then from there, I got hired by UrbanStems, the flower delivery company. They were brand new, and I was their first employee, and I came on as a marketing director. And then that, that is really where I feel like I got to hone my marketing and branding skills. I went from the agency model, which is where you're working on a lot different things and a lot of different brands all at once to being focused on one brand and being given a really sizable budget because it was a VC-backed company. So it was like, here's all this money, play, figure out what works. And I really feel like because I didn't have a degree in marketing and because no one on that team really did, I had a lot of freedom to just like test things and see what worked and really get good at being comfortable with trying something quickly and figuring out the good things about it, the bad things about it, and then iterating on that over and over and over again. So that job, I eventually became chief marketing officer. I had a team of 12, and then I got fired from that job.

Mm-hmm.

Which was devastating.

Yeah.

At the— now I'm like, what a blessing. But just like any breakup in the moment, it's horrible. So, and I had the idea, I had an idea for a travel company percolating at the time, but I never would've left that job. I loved it. I was learning so much.

Hmm.

It was a cool company. And so then I was like, holy shit. I had my entire identity wrapped up in that job because I, I, I'm a person who loves to work. I like, and I'm an Achiever Enneagram, so I'm like gonna do my best.

Me too.

Yeah. So, so I was like, wow, I just poured my heart and soul and yeah, yeah. Blood, sweat, tears into this company. And the company did super well. It went from like zero, I was there 4 years, it went there from zero revenue to $35 million a year.

Incredible. Yeah.

And I got fired because it wasn't enough. Yeah. So looking back, it's so funny. But so I was just like, wow, what do I want to do next? And I got— I feel like this is a piece that a lot of people struggle with. You get let go of a job, you have an identity.

What do you do?

Yeah. Yeah. I started getting all these offers from other places to come do their marketing. And I was, I don't know, something, a gut reaction was like, am I just setting myself up for the same situation to happen again? Especially marketing is usually the first thing cut.

Mm-hmm.

When, when things are going wrong or you're not meeting the investor's expectations, it's easy to blame it on marketing. So I was like, I don't know. So then I had the idea for the travel company while I was kind of like figuring that out. This is early 2018, I said yes to all the companies that wanted to hire me, and I said, but I'm like a temp CMO and I only, I want to consult hourly or like on a project basis. So I took like 10, I turned all the job interviews into consulting.

So smart.

Yeah, it honestly, it felt like I was doing something wrong when I did it because I was turning down all the jobs. But looking back, it financed Wild Trains.

So— It was the investor in your dream, which I teach all my clients. Every— you need an investor in your dream.

Yeah. So that paid my rent, that paid all my bills.

Yeah.

And then any leftover I put into Wild Trains for, you know, the initial branding and website and all of that research. And Oh, sorry. We have a puppy in the house and I knew it was going to— can you not?

Lauren has the cutest puppy. It's okay.

It's a very loud bark. Yeah. So that was how I got started.

So like, what was your first step? Because I think this is— so many people can relate to like kind of the pivot moment where it's like, I've been let go, I quit, you know, whatever it might be. And like, you know, you know, I think, you know, the women who have the calling to be entrepreneurs and to, you know, build legacy brands like you have, like you just, it's like this gnawing at you, you know? And it's like you taking one of those jobs full-time and that being like your new thing would've almost been just like an act of self-betrayal.

Yeah.

You know, like, and I remember feeling that too, you know, when I, I, I put in notice at, at my job, which, you know, I had a very similar situation of, of being, you know, a huge, a huge part of their growth and things like that. So like, what did you do? Like, so you basically secured your investor in the dream, which is exactly what I teach all my clients to do. Then what did you do? Like, what was your first step?

So I haven't thought about this in a while. I think, I think I moved pretty quickly once I made that choice. I definitely like wrestled with the choice for like 3 months. You know, I was going to job interviews, I was digesting what— and then I'm also, I think, a good read of people's emotions. And so when people point out my own emotions, I'm very like sensitive to it. So a lot of friends, when I was talking about the job interviews and my parents too, and then I would talk about the idea for Wild Terrain after, like it was the last thing I would mention, they would notice an energy shift. Like I was more excited about that idea. And a few people pointed that out to me. But also there was urgency. Like I couldn't, because I didn't have, like I was living alone, I had to pay rent.

Like I didn't— And you were in DC at the time, right?

Yeah, I was in Washington, DC, and there really wasn't, an option to like dilly-dally on the idea. I was like, this has to work and it has to work this year or— It doesn't happen. So, and I think that's really important because I've noticed that in friends and people I know, you know, if there's like a big security blanket, for whatever reason, you have family money or you have a really cushy job or whatever, they delay.

Yes.

Pursuing their true passion because they can.

Right. And that's where this, you know, like I don't think you could have built Wild Terrains while being, you know, at your full-time job because you were too invested. You know, like I couldn't have built my business while being at my first startup because like that company meant so much to me. Like it was my entire world. Like I lived, breathed, and ate that job. Like I loved it. And so that's really where this concept of the investor in the dream comes in. And, you know, it's something that, of course, like I always say for my clients, like you're good enough as someone else's best. So find something that you can, you know, of course give your all to, but that isn't so personally like meaningful and, you know, important to you that you don't have energetic capacity or time capacity to build the actual dream, because then you're just on a hamster wheel. Yeah.

And set boundaries around it. Like, the nice thing with consulting was like, you have 10 hours of my time a week, or you have— and I was so excited about WildTrains that I was doing that 10 hours and 5 hours, you know? Like, I really was. And I hate to say that on the record, but it's—

No, I, I did the same thing, you know? I, I did the exact same thing. I moved to a consulting role And, you know, I think I also was 10 hours and, you know, I did the same thing. I just wanted to coach. So I was like, the faster I get done with this, the more I can, you know, work on my website and do all the things. So, you know, I think both of us had a very similar path in that sense and, and set ourselves up very well to build the actual dream, right?

Yeah.

So like, did you already have the name Wildtrains? Did you already have the vision of like, I'm gonna do women-led travel? Like, How did that— how did you get all that? Because I think that honestly is the hardest part, is like the initial vision.

Yeah, it came in pieces. And I think that's something that I also think more people should talk about because it didn't— it wasn't—

It's not like, aha, here's the 5-step plan.

I wish. So the pieces were— and this was now almost 7 years ago, so the landscape's changed, but at the time there really wasn't cool trips for women there. I mean, there's like yoga retreats and I always talk about this surf camp. You can go climb Machu Picchu, you can find like very niche trips. But 7 years ago you couldn't find trips for women that were for women in their 30s and 40s and were focused around like food, art, culture, design, right?

There was like Intrepid or G Adventures, which is what I actually went on one of those. I would've done Wild Terrain, but I was like, I want to go somewhere by myself. And honestly, I would have much rather have gone with women. But I mean, you guys didn't exist at this time. Yeah. So there was— I think that's another thing. Like, there was a hole in the market. Yes, 1,000%. And you saw that.

Yeah. And Intrepid is actually a company that I like hugely admire. Yes. They— and I think this is also important. There were a lot of people at the time were like, do, do we need that? Do we need a women's? Are you sure all these big companies exist? And I was like, I think we need it. I don't, I don't see a trip that I want to go on. And I'm a big like sector of the market in especially I think women. And this is sort of my specialty is marketing to women. That's really where I, I've been doing this. Urban Stems was that too. So over a decade of marketing to women and women hold so much consumer power and so many marketing departments are headed by men. And so I think that's where there's a huge disconnect in how we market to women across the board. And I think the companies that you see doing really interesting things in terms of marketing women, if you look at their marketing department, I can pretty much guarantee it's a woman at the top because—

Love that.

Yeah, you just, I mean, it makes sense. You need to like understand the demographic to be able to market to it. So, so there was a hole in the market for sure. And I started with, I wanna do a cool travel company for women in their 30s and 40s. That was the idea.

Great.

Went to a coffee. I, my first step was I was like, let me go to Mexico City, which was my first destination.

Why was that your first?

I speak Spanish. I grew up in Texas, so I really, there's a cross-cultural, you know, connection there. And Mexico City at the time felt like it was gonna be a popular destination.

But it wasn't yet.

Wasn't yet.

This is another place where like you were like right place, right time, because now Mexico City, I live here, so Mexico City is the place to be. But when I arrived in 2018, I was the only blonde girl. It just was not a tourist place like it is now. So you also, I think, had the foresight anticipating what was coming from Mexico City.

I think it was lucky.

And maybe it was. It's, it's— I always say it's not luck, it's alignment.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, you were just aligned and you were following the opening and you were saying yes and.

Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Over and over again.

And so that was kind of my first step. I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I need to like go to Mexico City. I'd been there before, but I needed to go with this idea to see what I come up with. And so I started doing research, preparing for that first trip, and I went to coffee with a friend and who's an activist and was telling her about my plans. And she was like, all the people you're meeting with are women. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. She's like, yeah, it's all women-owned businesses. And I was like, you're right. And I don't— so really wasn't like a thought I had. I just did it.

Yeah.

And she was like, what? She said it. She was like, what if all your group trips only supported women-owned businesses? And I was like, that's an interesting idea. So then I think the next day I got on the plane to Mexico City. I did all my meetings and I ran with that concept, not really sure I was gonna be able to replicate it elsewhere, but I was just like, let's run with it. So then after I, I went back to Mexico City like 3 or 4 times, I had no idea what I was doing and I didn't realize I needed— now when I scout, I go for a month or two. I don't go for a week. It— scouting takes a lot, a lot of work.

Yes.

Um, so yeah, so then I came back from that trip and the second thing I did was I said, okay, I feel like I can do this. I— it's not built yet, but I feel like I have a really strong idea. I have a really powerful concept. I mean, if you think about 2018, that is like pre-MeToo era. So like the, the supporting all women-owned businesses, we're starting to see more of it 7 years later, but it was not a thing back then. And so I was like, this is really interesting. Um, And I was like, I think people will care. I think— and this is something I really believe in marketing— is consumers are really smart and they actually really care what you stand for and they want to feel good buying whatever you're selling. And so that's like the trifecta. And it had all three.

Yes.

So, so then when I came back, I was like, okay, this is— I'm not selling flowers anymore. I'm not selling, you know, like $50 skincare. I'm, I'm going to be selling like multiple thousand dollar trips and the branding needs to be elevated. And I had already sensed, and this is just, I think, a note for people who are just starting. I had started playing with the website and trying to figure out a name and doing all the like colors and the fonts. And I have like experience in design, but I was just reinventing the wheel every time I opened the computer. You know, I was like changing this color, changing this font, and I could tell that I was distracted. So I said, okay, my first investment is I'm going to hire an amazing designer, Maddy from Green Tie Studio, and I paid $5,000. For just the logo. I did come up with the name myself, but the logo, colors, fonts, the best $5,000 I've ever spent.

And I always tell people that. I always share that.

Yeah.

And it's not for every business, right? It— but in this case, and I say any, you know, higher-end public-facing product service-based business, like it has to look good.

Yeah, it has to. Trustworthy, right? Like, I'm like, people legit, you know, like, yeah, I was like, well, aren't going to send me. Also, I just, I really believe in branding. It's something I'm excited about. I pay attention to brands and like what they're doing in terms of their aesthetics. And so I was, yeah, I was like, I have to, in order for this to succeed, this is an important piece. Not only is it give me legitimacy and make it look more official. It also took me out of the weeds of like, once I had the colors and the fonts, I was able to like launch the website in 3 days, you know?

And— And I think that's an important piece. And I tell my clients this a lot, like in terms of, you know, logos, websites, like sometimes you're too close to it to be able to do it yourself. And like, I think logos, branding, websites, like that is something that is such a worthwhile investment. And, you know, I tell a lot of my clients, like if they don't have, you know, a travel business and they have more of like a coaching business or service provider business, like you just need something good enough to start that looks professional, you know, that looks high quality. But please don't go spend tens of thousands of dollars on your first website. Unless you're a business like you, you know, where it's, you're selling a, a high-end product, you know, experience-based business. So I think that's really important that like every entrepreneur, unless you are by trade a designer, it is so easy to get caught in the trap of being so close to it. And I think a lot of people get stuck and stop there.

Yeah.

Because they're like, I can't do this. Like it's not coming easily. And if you can just outsource that first step, step. A lot of times it's like, okay, and here we go. Yeah. And how— you did the website yourself, or did, did someone do that? You did it yourself?

Yeah. I mean, there's so many amazing, like, tools now. Like, we're on Squarespace. We've been on Squarespace for 7 years. Um, so yeah, literally our entire website I did, like, everything.

Yeah.

And, um, I love that because I mean, it was a learning curve. It's a learning curve to even learn something like Squarespace. But you know, if I wanna change something on the website, like I can go change it. I don't have to hire a developer. I don't have to like wait for someone to wake up to do it.

Right.

Same thing with my team. Like they're empowered to like get into Squarespace and update stuff. So.

And that's another thing I, I, sorry to interrupt, but I tell, you know, my girls in, in all of my programs, like, as a founder, as an entrepreneur, like, you should know how to do most of the things in your business.

Mm-hmm.

So that you aren't at every step hinging on someone else. Now, play to your strengths, but like, the more you can learn and like the more you can actually do yourself, that doesn't mean you're doing it, but just so you even understand the ins and outs of it, it's so empowering and you can move faster because like the thing I'm hearing you say is like, I just kept going. Like you were like, I'm okay, next step, website, logo, next step. So, so you get the website up and going, then what happens?

So the website actually, so, and this is unique to my business. What I did first was I did a secret trip. So I planned the Mexico City trip.

Secret trip, right? Okay. I love this story. This is so good.

So this was like, maybe I was fast. I got fired in February 2018. The secret trip was July. 2018.

Super fast. Yeah.

But maybe in like April, I said to my, a bunch of my close friends, hey, I have this idea for this company. There was no website there. Like I had the name, but there was nothing else. And I was like, if you pay, I'm just gonna charge you cost.

Right.

But like, do you guys wanna all come on this like test trip with me? And so we literally did it. We went to Mexico City. There were 12 of us. One of my best friends is a photographer, so she came.

What good friends you have that they would be like, we're down.

I know. Amazing friends. And like, really, I would say maybe even half of them have continued to go on trips.

Yeah.

And now they pay full price and they've just been like super supportive of my business. It's, it's really incredible. And yeah, so we ran through the Mexico city trip, the first iteration. Almost the entire trip has changed since that trip. Like, we've made a lot of modifications, uh, but it was great because I got live feedback, um, from them that was really honest because they were close friends. And it just gave me the confidence to like actually do it. And so then after that trip, I got the photos. I plugged all the photos into the website.

Which is important, having good photos. Like, you know, I have so many women, you know, because of our work together that come to me wanting to start travel businesses, which we're going to talk about that. But, you know, I say like professional high-quality photos are like mission critical when you're launching, like mission critical. And that's not for every business.

Yeah. Having your own photos.

And showing people doing the things they're going to be like real-life people, you know, not just like the mountains, but showing people like themself, let them see themselves on the trip.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

So then I launched, but all the— you have to understand, like, all— they were all my girlfriends on the trip and they were all at the time all in their 30s and 40s. So all the photos initially looked like younger women. So I launched. And all of a sudden I started getting all these emails and calls from women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s before I even like ran the first real trip.

But how did people hear about you? Like when you like the launch, like how do you launch? Like, 'cause what was your following at that time? Like did you have an Instagram of zero?

Like, I think my following was like 5,000, but I had had, the account from even before I thought of the idea. Like, it was an, it was an account that I posted, like, my travel on, right? You know, and it was from the days of Instagram where getting to 5,000 in the early days—

Yeah. Okay. So we had a little bit of a base because you, you know, were doing travel Instagram.

It was probably co-ed and, like, all over the world, like, not I don't think it was necessarily my target demo. Right.

But you just like made a post and you were like, this is Wild Dreams. Like, that's the—

And I think all my girlfriends who went on the first one shared it. I'm trying to think what else I did.

Did you do like an email? Like, yeah, this is the part that freaks people out is like, yeah. So yeah.

So I think what I did was a call out to friends and family. So like literally anyone I knew that was in my email database, like I was was like, hey, I'm starting a travel company, here's the website, like, it's brand new, can you tell all your friends?

Yeah.

And I think that was actually quite effective because, because my idea was so clear and so strong. I think especially all the women in that email list were like, wait, that's really cool, I'm gonna like tell my friend about it. And so I feel like everything was grassroots at the beginning. I didn't have a budget for marketing, I didn't spend money on ads, I didn't have PR 'cause I was brand new. Like, I'm a bit skeptical of PR in general, even though we do it now. But when you're brand new, no one's gonna write about you.

Right.

It's just like, you don't have any credibility yet. So it really wasn't that. And then I think my first 2 trips, I only had like, 5 people in them.

And did you launch with just 2 open? Like, how many were available?

4.

4. Okay.

And the first 2 were not full.

Okay.

And then, but then a couple of articles came out about us, like somewhere in the grapevine of people, a few people found out about us. And I think there was like a Travel and Leisure article because the concept was so unique. Women-owned businesses. Like nowadays, I don't think that alone would get you published. At the time it was like, whoa, this is interesting. And Mexico City's hot.

Yeah.

Or becoming hot. And so like, we wanna talk about all this. So there was like a Forbes article and I think I did some cold outreach to like some magazines and stuff.

Yeah.

And then it was just like wildfire. I mean, the next 2 trips sold out. I added 4 more Mexico City trips that in 2019 they sold out. And then I added, I was like, okay, I need another destination. I can't just, I can't only have Mexico City.

Right.

So I did Mexico City on its own for a full year. I led 9 trips myself, and then I scouted Portugal in early 2019 while I was building the business. I was doing like 8 things at once.

Yeah.

But I loved it, so it didn't feel like work really. And then Portugal, I launched 2 trips for the end of 2019 and they filled with all people who had gone on Mexico City. And then some people were like, I'm bringing a friend, or I'm bringing my mom. Or so that was the first full year of business, was 2019, and I did 11 trips. Didn't make any money still. We, we were like, all the money I made, I was figuring it out, right? Like, I was like— Over—

that's important for people to hear, is that like you didn't take a salary, like you were still working another job You know, you, you had your consulting work, you were not making, you know, the, the, it wasn't profitable yet. And I think that's like, I like to be really realistic with people. Like, this is not like, especially travel, because I have so many girls wanting to start travel businesses. Like, this is not a get rich quick industry, right?

And nothing is good.

Nothing is.

I'm like annoyed with everything I see on Instagram about this, like, get rich, make millions.

Like, make millions in 2 months. It doesn't exist. And nothing—

It doesn't No, no, because we live in such a like fast-changing world. It's just, you're so right. Nothing's passive. Like what worked in my business in 2019 doesn't work anymore.

Right.

You know, because we had COVID in the middle, a global pandemic that shut down the whole world. We have new, like Instagram isn't as strong anymore. PR isn't as strong anymore. Like people aren't reading those types of articles anymore. So like, Yeah, I think that's such an important thing to point out is like if you're getting into entrepreneurship for the money and the ease.

Yeah.

Choose. It's not there.

Take a different path. Yeah.

Go, go get a cushy like cubicle job at Google.

Yeah. Yeah. Where they give you free lunch and you ride on scooters or whatever.

I'm gonna go work at Google. It sounds great.

So like we're, let's just stop say there for a second because, well, then the— then how— so you do the Portugal trips too, and then did the pandemic happen?

So then I sold 2020. I had—

Right. Okay. This is important. So you had basically— you, you, you— the way that you do it is you launch, what, 6 months to 8 months out usually? Yeah.

Yeah. So I had already sold a bunch of Mexico City and Portugal trips for 2020. And I went to scout Argentina all of February 2020.

Mm-hmm.

And then I came to Mexico City and that's when I met you.

Right.

So yeah, so I had maybe, they weren't full yet, but I had maybe like 12 trips with a lot of people on them in March 2020. And literally I think the day that like the world shut down, I was supposed to fly to Portugal the next day.

Yeah.—

so yeah, so I had to cancel all of that, which was— that was devastating, right?

Because it was just like— and I get— I'm like getting chills this whole conversation. Like, it was just— it was like, like you said, like it was wildfire, and then it was like not even by your own choosing, just—

Yeah.

Extinguished.

Like when you're like flying out of the airport and you're like, yeah, you know, they get up in the air and they're like, actually, we have to go back down. Fuel or whatever. It was just— that was like the— I was like, felt like I was like riding high. And then it was so complicated because, you know, we didn't— I think if we had known how long that would have been, I would have maybe done some different things. But for a while we thought it was gonna be like 3 weeks or a month.

I mean, I remember literally like in our sessions being like, let's just see what happens, you know, in the next week or two, and then we'll make a call about April trips. Like, it was literally like week by week, like, yeah. And you were like tracking what all the other travel companies were doing. And you were like, they're all canceling. And I was like, let's just see, like, yeah, and I have a background in study abroad. So I'm like tracking like, what are they doing? Student travel? I mean, it was like, you know, it was like running a war room. Like, you know, we really didn't know.

And then you're like, I didn't— it was common for travel companies to not refund during that time, but they would just like hold your money and you would go later. And I think, but as a, as a consumer, I do understand how that must have felt frustrating. It's like your later is all of a sudden getting pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. And I'm holding $2,000 of your money.

Right.

And depending on what you're going through, through the pandemic, like—

You might need that.

Yeah. And so that was just like a super— and I wasn't, I couldn't touch the money. So it wasn't like I was like, drinking champagne with their money. Right. But yeah, so that was super stressful to kind of like know. I ended up holding majority of people's money. If someone had like a true freak out at me, I refunded. I was like, I don't really want that energy on our trip. And then, yeah, no trips went in 2020.

And then you did— you tried some things during the pandemic. During that year to try to like keep— to me it actually, again, and you know, I think you and I both believe and have said like everything happens for a reason. Like I think that year showed your brand, showed and created your brand's resilience because it's not like you just said, okay, no trips happening, I'm gonna like close down shop and I'll try again. Like you actually were putting out new things. So what did you do? You had the shop. You were hosting online events, like you were doing all sorts of stuff that was actually nurturing people who were desperate for travel and connection.

Yeah.

It worked in your favor.

Yeah, I do think that was looking back, I think it was partially that I couldn't sit still. Like I was anxious and stuck at home and needed to be working on something that felt good. So yeah, we launched, something called the Salon, which we now have a membership program called Wingwomen. So there, it's kind of like a new version of what the COVID version was. Um, and that was a community space that had online gatherings and a book club and cooking classes.

It was super fun. Yeah. With your partners.

Yes. So that really was, and I think this is something that also has led to a lot of loyalty with us is I think we've it's what we preach. So if we say we're going to support women-owned businesses abroad and all of a sudden the world shuts down, I wasn't going to launch a community space and be the only one to benefit financially.

Right.

So I pulled in the partners who were struggling financially because their restaurants were closed, their hotels were closed, and we came up with different events that they could host. And none of us made a ton of money, but it kept us engage. It kept like, it gave us a chance to connect over what we were dealing with. Um, and yeah, it gave travelers like a space to connect with each other, connect with us. And those are our two big things, like community and connection. And I think we were living and breathing that even during COVID Yes. Um, we probably made $10,000 off of that and that didn't even pay for all the like fees of running just a business, you know, like webs, everything. So, so it wasn't that we were making money off of it, but I do think we stayed relevant. And once the world started to like open up a little bit, I was like, okay, I think— and this was super anxiety producing too. I remember launching Argentina. I probably— in our sessions we talked about it.

I remember this.

Yeah. Do I launch it now? Do I wait?

Do we wait? Yeah. Is it too soon? Is it insensitive? Are people going to be freaked out? Like that That was the tail end of this is like once we got through it, it was like, are people ever going to want to get on a plane again? Yeah. Like, I mean, people were petrified of flying, you know?

I know, like wearing hazmat suits.

Yes.

Yes. And there were all these rules even once the world opened. Totally. You had to like test to come home. And if you opened, you had to quarantine. So it was like highly inconvenient.

Yeah.

Yeah, so eventually I launched Argentina, I think in September 2020, and I sold a bunch of 2021 trips that couldn't even go because Argentina was closed. So, but I think what that did in that moment was it was the right timing. We'd waited long enough that it wasn't insensitive and people were like, I need something on my calendar to look forward to.

Yeah.

I don't care if it gets moved. I will give you all of my money. And so again, and I think the reason I knew that timing is I was talking to customers the whole time.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you, you were, you were a one, I also want everyone to hear like Lauren was a one woman show this entire time.

Yeah.

You had your partners, but it's not like you had a team. Like it's not like you had an assistant. I mean like when people emailed, you know, Wildterrains@wildterrains.com or whatever, like it was Lauren on the other end. End. Like, she was— and I tell people, like, in the beginning, like, everyone's so eager to, like, get a VA or get an assistant. And I think there's so much value in being the woman on the ground in the hearts of your people. Like, and this is how you— it's like you could energetically feel the climax coming and the readiness of your people because you were in it with them.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And just so everyone knows, I just hired a VA this year and she's amazing. In year 7, I hired her.

Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, I think I was listening to people and I think so that then I started to instead of react, I think from, and this is through like a lot of our coaching too, instead of reacting from a place of fear, anxiety was like, okay, let's just one step forward. Let's do the way we were doing it before. One step in front of the other. And let's listen to what people are saying. And that was game changer for me. So that was like, okay, I'm gonna not— Argentina just did so well, we need more. Where do people wanna go? Iceland was like super hot because you can be outdoors the whole time. Post-COVID, that was like very intriguing to people.

Yes.

To like not be indoors and to be in nature and just like the health risks are less if you're outside. So I was like, okay, I'm going to Iceland. So I went to Iceland, like the moment I got vaccinated and I could go, I went, scouted that. And pretty much immediately after went to France, scouted that, and then launched both of those destinations. So all of a sudden I went from 2 to 5. And that was also really well timed because it was after— I was one of the last people to get vaccinated and it was after people were now like, okay, how do we reenter the world?

Mm-hmm.

I really wanna travel. There was a lot of pent-up demand. So 2022 was the first year that all of those trips went, and that was a crazy hard year. It was, we 10x'd. So yeah, it was literally 10 times the volume that I did in 2019. So huge. I hired, yeah, I hired my first full-time employee, Sina. She's my head of experiences now.

We love her. Hi Sina.

We love her. And then I very quickly hired my now head of ops, Sarah, who's also—

Sarah, we love you.

And I hire, and then I quickly learn I was still leading all the trips.

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah.

Which is also, people need to hear that. Like you were literally leading, I mean that, how many did you do? You were on the road like all the time.

All the time. 2022 was, I think we counted that I was gone 250 days.

I mean, it was like inhumane actually.

Yeah. It was not healthy at all. Yes.

It was insane. But I mean, I think people need to hear like that was what was required for you to build this brand because you were, again, you were on the ground. You saw like when someone, you know, woke up at 9:00 AM on in Paris the first morning they were too tired that we needed to move the start time to 9:30. Like you saw these things and so you were making changes like in real time. And so your product just kept getting better and better and better. And what happens when the product gets better is that people tell their friends because the product's even better and better and better. And so you just kept spreading like wildfire.

Yeah.

And I really believe that's because you were on the ground.

Yeah, I think so too. It's not a scalable thing to, I think that it's like two sides, like you're saying, yes, be on the ground, do every job, listen to everything. Hey, also like be observant because a lot of people won't say stuff. So I'm also watching.

Yes.

Yeah, that girl's yawning at 9 AM.

Yes.

You know, but she's not saying I'm so tired and complaining, of course.

Right.

Yeah. So, So I think that's totally right. But I think also recognizing as I was doing that, I was like, okay, I'm doing this now because it's gonna make or break us, but this is also not scalable.

Sustainable.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's, you know, knowing, I think it's a fine line between not outsourcing or bringing new people in too soon, but also not running yourself into the ground. Like I think it requires both.

Yeah. And I will admit I have a high tolerance for— I don't— I think a lot of people couldn't have done that year, you know, but I think because I believed in the brand so much, I had just survived COVID, which felt like, well, I'm not gonna quit now. I just waited all these years to actually do this, but it required a lot. I was running trips during the day, training trip leaders, you know, onboarding a new team and pass— delegating tasks tasks to them while also designing marketing emails at midnight from my bed. Like, I mean, it was a lot.

And I remember like you having so much fear and hesitation around bringing on team members because you were so, you were holding it so tightly. And I think that's something that, you know, a lot of people struggle with is like they wanna try to do it all. And I think that we just got to the point where I was like, You got to get help. Like, yeah, like, you got to get help. And like, but it was scary for you to relinquish.

For sure. I think the hard part of entrepreneurship is like, those are all common stages, right? You start off very alone.

Yeah.

And you build everything yourself and it's blood, sweat, tears and really ups and downs. And then you realize you can't keep doing all of it, but it's good that you did all of it and you have to onboard a team and you you all of a sudden are replaceable in a way.

And so— Which is what you want actually as a leader.

And now I'm getting in a phase where our team, we're a team of 12 now and a lot of the team members are, you know, having families and going on maternity leave and that's something I'm looking towards. And I'm like, I need to be replaceable.

Yes.

So that I can go on maternity leave for 4 months and the business operates. So yeah, it's like that's, that progression is super, super important.

Yes, totally. And I just want to just like, I just like had this download. I just want to point out, like, and I, at the time, you know, however many years ago this was, like, I didn't necessarily have these two frameworks that I now teach in all my business programs. But, you know, this is essentially what, what happened with Wild Grains. And this is what I teach all my clients. Like, You created an irresistible product suite that sold itself, right?

Mm-hmm.

So like people would go to France and then girls on the France trip would say, let's go to Iceland. You know, like it, so people were self-selling into all your trips. So you created an irresistible product that took your clients on a journey. You had magnetic, totally dialed in marketing that was like on the absolute pulse of what people wanted. And then you had this energy and momentum in WildTrains that, that was felt like through the trip leaders, through you. And like, I really believe, and I know you agree with this, like if you have those 3 in place, you have the makings of a 6, 7 plus figure business, but you have to have those 3 in place.

Yeah.

And they have to be done well, thoroughly, and you have to love it. You know, like you have to love it or this will fall apart. And the other thing is, you know, I have a theater background, so I teach, you know, with my early stage entrepreneurs in the Dream Accelerator, my level 1 program. You know, one of the things I teach them is exactly what you did, which is the 3 rules of improv. They come from Dan Diggles, my improv teacher in New York City. I love him. He wears a fanny pack. He's amazing. So the three— he has a book, everyone should read it, The Three Rules of Improv. And they brilliantly tie to business, which is say yes and just keep saying yes and. Like, they like Paris? Yes and let's go to Paris. Like, people want outside, you know? Like, so say yes and just keep saying yes, keep following the opening. And the other one, which Iceland made me think of, was dare to be obvious. Mm-hmm. That none of this is rocket science. Like, can you not make it complicated and just choose the obvious right next step, which is, okay, people are freaked out about being closed up inside. They don't wanna do museums, but oh my gosh, they would love to do, you know, picnics out under the stars and, you know, see the Northern Lights and be in nature and ride the Iceland horses. And I mean, like, you just dared to be obvious and that was like the thing everyone wanted, right?

Yeah.

And then the, the third rule of improv is it's actually make your partner look good, but I replace it with make the universe look good. So like, you just kept building, you know, like, it was like, it wasn't luck, it was alignment, but you just kept going. And it's this cycle where like, you keep looking better, the business keeps looking better because you just keep saying yes, you keep daring to be obvious, and that is the result. And I think that that creates this momentum. I always tell people, when you're in alignment, something bigger than you will actually take over and kind of give you the energy or the clarity or the momentum that you might not have before you've taken the leap. And that was like a current throughout Wild Terrain that you created, obviously.

Yeah. I think it's such a good point. I mean, I didn't know where I was going. It wasn't, I never did a business plan. There's no business plan. Yeah. For WorldTrains. Yeah. Like, I don't know what we're doing next year, you know?

Yeah.

Like, but I think to add to what you said, I think another important point is like the yes and has to be aligned. Yes. See this a lot, especially with tra— like competitor travel companies. So I look at them, is they, they stray too far from their like core mission and it makes it so much harder.

Mm-hmm.

A good example is I was mentoring these girls, they're amazing. I hope that they succeed like 10 times, you know, I just think they're amazing. But we, I do mentor sessions and so I did a mentor session with them and we were looking at their website and they were talking about being a travel company for food and then, but also like community, like volunteering and then, their name was like a food name, but the first image on their homepage was like a beach umbrella with no food in it. And I was like, girls, it's unaligned. Like you're talking about so many things.

Right.

And I've seen other travel companies, you know, they're co-ed, then they're women only, then they're back to co-ed. And it's like, no, consumers don't want that kind of inconsistency.

Yes.

They want to trust that you are always gonna stand for what you stand for. And so, That's why you'll never see me launch trips for men, because there's way too many women that need our trips. I don't have time for it and it's not aligned with what we do. And so I think that is like such an important piece for us is that our two main things are community and connection. We do it everywhere.

And those are your values, you know, and that's where it comes back to, like identifying your values, identifying your purpose. And then creating your business mission. And it's like, we don't waver.

Yeah. And then we make sure that that thing, whatever it is for you, if it's food, if it's whatever.

Yeah.

That it, that is like literally component of everything you do. You know, like when we're posting on social media, we're showing groups of women smiling. It's our top performing posts are that because we're talking about community and connection.

Yeah.

We, before we lead a trip, we introduce all the travelers with bios that they've written in like a private community space a month before the trip. That's creating community and connection ahead of time. And then like you said, like the travelers are in a group chat after their trip ends. We never close those group chats.

Yeah.

Why? Because a year later someone will pop back in and say, they just launched Japan, who wants to go? Yeah. People will sign up and they're doing the marketing for us.

Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, because I've led retreats with you guys, like our retreat chats, people still pop up in those or they'll send so-and-so and I tuning in from Paris. And it's like, then what happens? Sally looks and she says, oh my God, they're having so much fun in Paris. Oh my God, there's a trip happening in 3 months. I'm going to take my daughters or whatever it might be. So again, it's having a product suite that sells itself with magnetic marketing that, you know, is super specific, dialed in. And again, like I always tell people, like, your best customers are the ones that are closest to you.

Yeah.

Your best evangelists are the ones that are closest to you. And when you prioritize people first and community first, it's so much easier to sell what you're offering because you have people on your side.

It. Yeah. And you have to— you have to deliver. I think that's another piece, right?

You have to deliver. Overdeliver, I would say.

Yeah, yeah.

Overdeliver. Surprise and delight.

Yeah. I mean, we were looking at a retreat where— we won't say the name, but we were looking at a retreat, you and I, the other day on Instagram, and we were like, wow, they did— they underdelivered.

Underdelivered. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, like, it just I think especially, you know, in both coaching and in travel, like, and I'm building out a module in my mastermind on business ethics because I feel so strongly about overdelivery and doing what you say you're going to do in the timeframe, in the way that you're going to do it. Because like, at the end of the day, like, business is about doing good and doing right. And I think that's something that like Wildtrains totally embodies and it's so important. And there's a lot of businesses that don't do that and they might, you know, sell really fast, but I can promise you they won't last.

Yeah. And doing the basics well, like we keep getting, we keep getting these comments recently from women who end up booking trips with us and they'll say, I was between a few companies, but you guys responded the fastest.

Totally. Great example.

It's because I, we, everyone on the team has our, our like customer service thing on their phone. My team's not working on the weekends, but if we get someone saying, I'm ready to book Argentina, I need a quick phone call, and I see that on a Saturday, I'm taking the call while I'm walking my dogs.

Like, totally.

I don't wait and the team doesn't wait. If they're on the clock, they call that person within an hour of getting the message. And 9 times outta 10, that's like they sell it on the spot. Yeah.

100%. I think that's such a good point. Yeah. Like, it's— and again, that's like, dare to be obvious.

Yes. Yeah.

Like, that's such an obvious thing that people just like miss, you know?

They miss. I mean, planning my wedding, some of the vendors would take like 3 weeks to respond to an email, and I immediately took them off my list because I was like, this is too important a day for it to take 3 weeks for you to answer this. Like, it was kind of a test in a way to see who was going to be responsive.

100%. What I want to know is, like, through it all, how have you kept going? Like, what has kept you going through the ups, through the downs? What's the North Star of the whole thing? Because you— I mean, we as entrepreneurs, it's normal to be like, I don't know if I can do this anymore.

I think the real answer is that it's changed almost every year. Yeah, I think in the early days it was a lot, um, a lot of sort of self-absorbed answers, you know. I I think a lot, we all do, right? We wanna have notoriety for building something amazing.

Yeah.

We wanna have success, money, whatever that means.

Mm-hmm.

I think nowadays that I have a team, I love our team. Our team is so amazing and they, every 6 months they get stronger and we are like so strong right now. We're a team of 4 full-time and I really feel the responsibility of that to have 4 full-time employees on payroll.

Yeah.

But also the culture of that team has really, we've done a lot of work towards it. Claire Sellers helped us with some team stuff as well. But right now it's a really lovely team culture. There's no gossip, there's no drama. Everybody's super hardworking. We have fun. We're all in different places, but we just like really enjoy talking to each other and like working on things together. And I think they all also feel like, like, wow, this is a job that I like really like.

I really— They love the business.

Yeah, they love the business.

They love it.

They feel the impact.

Yeah. They love shop hours. They get to go shop.

In the middle of the day.

Yeah.

Everybody works from home. So for me right now, that's the motivator. I'm like, it's not just about me anymore. It's about all these other people and like, how can I make their lives and careers better? So that's my motivator right now, I think.

And I think like, I think, you know, the thing that inspires me so much about Wild Trains and, you know, I started— I'm doing a Telegram group right now and I was talking about you and, you know, the business. And I got choked up talking about, you know, just how thousands of women at this point wouldn't have been able to see the world if you hadn't been brave enough to say, like, I'm just going to do this. You know, like, I mean, just think of and like, you know, I won't name names.

I'm going to cry.

But just think about like all the women who, you know, you've brought together, who've become friends, you know, who felt so lonely. Like, you know, you and I know like so many women like have come to us in Mexico, like, you know, on the retreat, like feeling isolated and lonely and their lives have been changed by what you created. It is a legacy brand because of the impact, because they go home and they're better wives, they're better mothers, they're better grandmothers, they're better friends and sisters because they've been able to see the world and it's ignited something inside of them that they could have never created on their own, ever.

That is so nice. I'm definitely going to cry if we keep talking about this.

It's true. Do you feel that? Like, I— and I know, I know you know this, but like, I want you to hear it.

It's funny, I'm really focused on the team right now, so that's why I didn't like touch on the travelers and the partners. But I think I do really feel that I, I get, you know, just like in every business, you get lovely notes and bad notes and bad reviews and good reviews. But I save all the really lovely ones.

Yeah.

And it's like my fiancé Will, who, you know, but he, whenever he like sometimes cries when he reads them, they're so, they're so impactful and, I think that is for sure a motivator. Sometimes I lose track of it more so because the team's in front of me every day.

Right.

You know, I also think it's really powerful now. You know, it felt like a small idea at the beginning, but we're redirecting like millions of tourism dollars into the hands of women. So like, I think that's another important piece is like, I think the business has such an outsized impact on the team, the travelers, and all the vendors. And I think that is also like another trifecta in a sense that like everybody feels almost like they're part of this like little club that's doing something innovative. Yeah.

And it goes beyond that because, you know, when I started partnering with you guys, I was like, wait a second, I'm only gonna use women vendors. So my business is, I only work with women.

Literally. Yeah.

I only work with women. And the impact of that is that when you work with me, you get access to my entire team. Me and all the people that I work with. So now I have 20, 30 women who are hiring my designer, who are hiring my lawyer, who are hiring my photographers, whatever it might— my web designers. I will literally go out of my way to stay at a women-owned hotel. Or if I'm walking down the street and there's two water stands, I'm going to buy from the woman. And that was not something I was aware of before Wild Dreams. Yeah. It's beyond— it's literally this massive life-changing ripple effect and it's just incredible.

Yeah, it's really interesting to like zoom out and think about it that way. And I think just it's a change in behavior for a lot of people of how they buy. I do think the world is moving towards more transparency when you buy. And so I think it's in line, you know, and I've seen a lot of other travel companies pop up that are like, we only work with women. And I'm like, people ask, do you get upset? And I'm like, no, I think that's great for the universe.

The more the better.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it's great. Yeah. Thank you for saying all that.

Well, you know, I just— I mean, I feel like I'm talking about you, bragging about you, spreading the word of Wild Terrain, like, at least once a day. I mean, I am like y'all's number one fan. I adore each and every one of you, and I just like will forever be so supportive of you and what you've built. And I mean, again, like I said in the beginning, it's very rare to come across someone as heart-led and heart-centered and kind, which I know is a value of yours, just being kind, as kind of a woman as you. And so I'm just so grateful that I've been able to be part of your journey and part of the Wild Terrain journey. And I'm so— you guys have a lot coming. We'll link all the things, you know, join the Wingwoman membership. They're launching Japan soon, which is going to sell in like 2 seconds. So, and obviously go on one of their amazing destinations. I always like to ask 3 quick questions to close us out. So my first question is, what does prosperity mean to you? Because it's different for everyone.

Oh, that's so hard. I think in this moment in my life, Claire Sellers, I moved to Colorado last year and I'm in nature. And so being— having such easy access to nature feels like prosperity to me. I love that.

Yeah, so true. I love that. What is the— I think I know what you're going to say. What is the next dream that you are birthing or committed to or dreaming into?

Birthing? I mean, I'm ready to be a mom, I think so.

Hopefully. Yes.

That's a path that I'll get to go down.

Yes. We're so excited for that. Lauren, thank you so much. You are just the best. The third question is, where can people find you? But I'm going to link all the ways, your personal Instagram and just all the links for Wild Trains. I am just so beyond grateful. I'm humbled that I have the opportunity to be your friend, your coach, your partner, your all the things. And I just love you. I love you to death and I'm just so grateful.

I love you too. This was so, so fun.

Thank you.

Love you.

Bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I am so grateful for your presence and for being a part of this community. Feel free to DM me @itsclairesellers on Instagram. I would love to connect with you and hear what resonated with you in this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the show. And if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave a 5-star review. Your feedback means the world to me and helps me reach more incredible women just like you. And because I love to spoil you, just DM me a screenshot of your review on Instagram and I'll send you my free Prosperity Activation Course as a thank you. It's my way of investing in you and your dreams. Thank you.