Ep. 2: Designing Your Dream Life with Janette Riebe of The School + Art of Thriving

there's nothing that will give you more life force, which is also prosperity. There's nothing that will give you more life force than doing the thing that you're meant to be doing or being on the path to discovering it. Welcome to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I'm Claire Sellers, a business mentor and coach who is absolutely obsessed with helping you create the business of your dreams and your most prosperous life. Tune in for inspiring conversations with extraordinary women that will propel you towards becoming a prosperous woman. Yay! Welcome to the show, Jeanette. I'm so excited to have you.

Hello. I love talking to you. Let's do it.

Yay! And you guys can't see, but we're both wearing our power color red, so it's just also perfect. I am so excited to have one of my dear friends, one of my clients, one of my colleagues, one of my sisters on the show today. Jeanette and I have known each other for probably 5 or 6 years now, and we have had many different relationships and dynamics during that time, which we're going to get into. Um, and I brought her on the show because she is just the embodiment of what's possible when you follow the opening and you keep saying yes and, even especially when it doesn't make sense. She's gonna get into her story and the path that led her to the incredible life that she is now living. Um, so to kick us off, Jeanette, I would love to just kind of like set the stage with how we met, because I think a lot of people you know, don't often talk about coaching certifications as much as they should. And that's actually where Jeanette and I met. We met in the Co-Active Training Institute, CTI, which is the coaching program that we both did in their certification program. And we were in the, like, randomly put in the same cohort. And I don't know if you remember this, but I just remember, like, being instantly drawn to you.

Yes, actually same, because we were part of a bigger cohort that I remember, and then we signed up to practice. And after the first talk, I think of 30 minutes, I was like, hey, this is my woman. She's exactly like me. I love it. She's not gonna stop. Like, at this point, because we were so new to coaching and certification, we were still like, what are we doing? And are we insane? And maybe we are, and we're still not going to stop. So absolutely, I do remember meeting you there.

I, yeah, and I just remember feeling this like sisterhood and connection, which actually led us to keeping in touch. And I remember we were doing kind of practice coaching while you were on your US journey, which we're gonna get into. But then you joined the Dream Accelerator, which was just the best and so amazing to have you and support you in building I would call it two businesses. Essentially, we have coaching and we have— tell you, you explain it better than me, kind of high level. We're gonna get deeper, but high level to kind of tell people, what do you do?

Well, two things. After I quit and traveled the world, I switched industries and I am part of a hospitality entrepreneurship project, which is essentially building a new resort and residence brand here in Greece with another friend of mine, because I love doing things with friends and wonderful brilliant women, my friend Yasmin, an hotel founder. And then the second thing I'm doing is also building my own thing at the side, I think inspired by women like you and her as well, realizing, hey, it's not easy, but every woman kind of has a dream. And so I'm also building a, I would say, coaching and lifestyle company. And at this point I call it life— Lifestyle. Style so much because I'm much more drawn in by making a very specific lifestyle dream come true than like any kind of milestones or projects around it. Those are all fun. I grow with them, but really I just want to be wild and free and resourced and happy.

Yes. I mean, isn't that like wild, free, resourced, and happy? That should be a tagline somewhere.

I love that.

It's so good. It's so good. And, you know, in the Dream Accelerator, you really built, you know, built the foundations of the coaching program, and then you joined the Inner Circle Mastermind, which is being renamed. I'm excited to share the name soon. And you really started to learn the ins and outs of launching and selling and iterating and creating and doing, you know, doing the work of being an entrepreneur, which I think you're just like such a beautiful embodiment of because like you are not afraid to fail. And I've seen you do so many things, knees shaking, unsure, messy as hell, and like you just do it anyway. And that's why you're just like a dream client, friend, woman, colleague, all the things. So I'm super excited to get into deeper into your story.

Thank you.

I love, like, can you take us back to, I guess it was when we've, or maybe you had already left, but take us back to, you know, you're in Silicon Valley, 'cause your story's so relatable to women who are, you know, in the audience who are like in these jobs. I mean, I just picture so many of my future clients kind of like hands in the face, like, how am I gonna get out of here? So can you kind of like take us to a moment like that that I know you had? And you know, you're welcome to share where you worked or, you know, or not either. Way. But just kind of take us to like, how did you know you wanted to leave? How did you leave? Like, take us through the journey because it's an amazing story.

Well, actually, our story is also really similar, right?

It is.

Yes. That phase of just being in a golden cage. And that happens to women who on some level are intelligent, driven, and then probably come from an environment, family, whatever, of also high achievers and people that tell them succeed, strive, be the best, et cetera, et cetera. And so then you end up naturally in some career. And most of us don't choose our first career. It just kind of happens to us. For me, it was Silicon Valley. I just ended up in there.

Yeah.

And ended up being really good because I think the truth is, if you're intelligent, driven, et cetera, et cetera, and you're not, excuse my language, a dick, then you'll pretty much succeed everywhere. And you end up in these golden cages rewarded handsomely.

And financially, mostly, I would say, like, you know, it's the golden handcuffs, like, and we shared that in common. We both, you know, we loved the money.

Yes. No. And, and, and I think that's valid. But like sometimes golden handcuffs come in so many different ways, right? You've already built reputation. If like me, you have like a kind of like a nervous system that's very fragile at times, then just being established already, everyone likes you, you know, you have maybe have some liberties now or some freedoms because you've worked there for 10 years, etc., etc., then you're kind of like locked in.

Yeah.

I knew I wanted to leave mostly because of two things. One, I was miserable, and I'll get into that. But just two, I wasn't actually interested in that career. I didn't like that job that much. I was just good at it. And I think there's a book, Gay Hendricks' Big Leap that talks about the difference between zone of mastery, zone of genius, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're nodding. You like know this too. Yeah.

You end up being really good at something, masterful and rewarded for it.

Right.

But it's actually not easy. And it's not easy because this is not your zone of genius. You're supposed to be somewhere else. And what happens for me was I was stressed out all the time and I had very low resilience because when things get hard, you don't actually care and you don't wanna be there. It's really hard to justify to yourself why you should deal with all of it And so that kind of makes the whole misery worse. And I'd already known I wanted to leave at the end of my Facebook career. That was my first job. So I'd been there for 7 years.

And what were you doing? Just for context, because I think that's interesting to what you're doing now.

Yes. I mean, nothing related in some way, right? I started out in German market growth and customer service. And then I started out on online safety, and then it turned into ethics and turned into PR and turned into public policy, turned into crisis management. Like, again, like that autopilot of you just get moved wherever.

Because you're good at everything, you can do it. And I think that's so relatable to, like, you know, my ideal client and the women in the audience. Like, we, like, put us in a restaurant. And we'll freaking run it better than any man can. Like, put us in a shoe shop and we will, like, you know, make it the most efficient, like, highest sales shoe shop in town. Like, put us anywhere and we'll thrive. But to your point, like, that doesn't mean that we're meant to run restaurants or shoe shops.

Well, and as we were talking about, now I know we were thriving, right? But the interesting thing is that sometimes these corporate environments, especially for women, breed the sense of inadequacy. And that it's not enough. And because you're miserable and you're really stressed out, part of you actually feels weak because you have that illusion that other people are dealing with it much better. And so if you, you're achieving a lot, but on some level you actually don't think you're that good, then why would you try something else? Why would you leave and dare something bigger?

It's petrifying.

Yeah, exactly. Like now looking back at myself, I'm like, of course we were great at this. Now we know we'll be great at anything that we put our minds to do. But I didn't know that at the time. All I had was just this deep desire to leave. I didn't do it. I wanted to do that for 4 years. It took me 4 years to leave. And our coaching certification, because our coaching certification talks so much about what do you actually want to do? How do you deal with big feelings and fear? You are not only your fear and big feelings.

Right.

These are normal, universal human emotions. You are not weak for having them. And then clarity, and you're so good. That's why I came to you and joined your program, right? Clarity around what it is that you actually want to do will at some point not leave you a chance but to do it because you just cannot live with yourself once you know what it is you were meant for. In that time, it was I wanted to quit and travel the world, and I couldn't think of anything else until I had done it.

Yeah.

And then when I was in your program, the moment you kind of came up with me with for that concept of life coaching for a very specific type of like idealistic woman plus retreats where we all meet each other and have just fun and wildness and freedom. Once you had given that to me, I was like, okay, for that dream, for that dream, I will do some of the things that I know will make me fearful and miserable because that's actually worth it. So—

Yes. Yes.

Clarity. Clarity.

Yeah, and I, you know, I think there's a couple things you said in there that are really important because, and again, our stories and our paths are so similar, which is why we just, you know, we'll, we'll be forever in each other's worlds in all the different ways. But, you know, it took you 4 years. It took me probably 4 to 5, I would say. And I think it's exactly what you said. It's like I get so much validation and worthiness from being good at this and from the money I'm making. And the status that it gives me and, you know, having the black P card and, you know, all, you know, getting to go to fancy dinners, like all these things that come with a more corporate type job. It's, it's intoxicating and it's a little bit addicting. And the thought of having to step out of that when you don't know what it is you want to do is, is literally paralyzing and petrifying. And I think for both of us, you know, my wake-up call was this, was CoActive, was CTI because, you know, I stood at, I tell this story all the time, but I stood, I went into the room, you know, on day 1 of the core curriculum, which we didn't do together. And you know, they, the icebreaker question, everyone was milling around the room, what is your dream? And I was just like, to travel is the only thing I could think of. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, I milled to the next person and they said, what's your dream? And I said, to travel around the world. And then I milled to the next person and I said it with a little more confidence. And by the end of that weekend, I was like, I don't know what's next, but all I know is that I need to find a way to make my job remote or find another source of income, and I'm gonna travel the world. And that's all I can see. And it's, it was the same for you. Like you just knew that that was the right next step. And, and I think that so often people think they have to have the whole, you know, 3-year plan or even year-long plan. Like we didn't know, neither of us, like we didn't know what the plan was. We just knew what the right next step was and we were able to muster the courage to just take that one step. And that was the catalyst for how we've, you know, created the lives that we're living now. So I think it's important to share, like, it doesn't have to take 4 years. Like, if I could go back and do it again, which I have no regrets, like, I would have gotten a coach sooner. I would have joined a coaching program sooner. I would have just started exploring, you know, which is like what my program does in various programs I have, you know. It's like you just have to get out there and start taking action. You get clarity through action. You don't get clarity through sitting at the desk ask, you know, oftentimes reading books or even listening to podcasts. Like, you have to take action, and I couldn't do that on my own. I was too scared.

Exactly. Well, and also, and, and it's interesting, I talk about it, that, that tyranny of reason, which means someone— that particular culture has its own logic. Corporations and, and the conventional life is its own logic. And so breaking out of it essentially would be sane by their standard. And if we're all from like a certain type of family— I'm from like a normal middle-class family, right? And so you stay safe, you do what's reasonable, do the conventional path because, you know, you pro— and probably your parents worked really hard to even get you where you are right now. So there's a little bit of that as well. And then you need a, like, like a group of women that go, just FYI, um, that's actually not the only definition of a reason. That logic is a very specific logic, and there is 20 different types out there, and I can actually show you a bunch of people that in a very sane way broke out of this life, build a better one. And this is where I think women— and I talk with my friends a lot about lighthouses. So you got to find your lighthouses, people that have done it before you. And part of, like, on my website, I go, and I'm happy to report that 5 years later, I am neither broke nor destitute. So— Yeah. All good on the other side of the thing, but you need, you need that sisterhood. You need someone to go, this is actually incredibly sane. And what you're doing right now is maybe a little bit more insane because you're miserable, right? Then it would be to throw it all away. And I'm doing air quotes right now because you're not actually— because we just discussed that if you are—

It was like, Claire, like, you don't have to do this. But I, everyone else was in, in the hamster wheel too. So, you know, until I got around people, especially women who were like, oh, I've changed careers 6 times. Like I, you know, I used to be a teacher and now I'm a chef. And I was like, wait, what? Like just mind blown that that was possible because I think, you know, and I would love for you to speak about your upbringing a little bit being German because I think culturally like that is so you, you, you know, you have this very German side and then you also have this just like wild woman free spirit that's just like, woo, like ready to roar. And like, it's really been a meeting and a melding of those two for you. And similarly for me, you know, growing up, you know, in a fairly conservative Southern home with, you know, successful entrepreneurial parents who were petrified that I was going to follow in their footsteps and be an entrepreneur. They were like, having your own business is the hardest thing you'll ever do. Stay in that job. Keep that job, Claire Sellers Sellers. I mean, I'll never forget my mom saying, begging me, keep that job.

It's actually— I love that story because my family is not entrepreneurial. And so to hear that there is an entrepreneurial family, but that understands kind of, you know, like the resilience that it does take to be an entrepreneur and that they're like, why? But it comes back to— and, and that's become— there's been a time where it was a little sad to have a family that didn't encourage it. And to this day, I petrify them with everything I do.

Me too.

Exactly. But I realized that, like, with that, with a few exceptions, family, especially, and parents especially, love you in a way where they just want you to be as safe as possible. And that is their love language. And so you cannot blame them for that. But that's why I think build secondary family and friendship and social circles in which the currency in the way of love is a yes, go do it. Yes, we like catch you when you fall. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So it's not safety. It's like daring or something or like a championing of the next version of who you can be.

Mm-hmm.

And I also have to be honest, I am so happy that I do have my family. But if it— because if anything else happened, and this is not true for everyone, if anything happened, I could for like a month or two hang out there and assemble my stuff. And so at this point I've made peace with, okay, they're my safety net along with other things. And then there's my dream enablers, champion sisterhood, everything.

The wild, crazy women that are like, why wouldn't you do this? And I think, you know, you, you, so you traveled for how long did you travel? I remember talking to you when you were like, I always, I don't know why I have this weird memory of you, but you were in in the desert, and I always think it's— was it Utah? Where were you?

Yes. Well, because I quit and then the pandemic started.

Yes.

And so I couldn't go anywhere, and I essentially, um, I was meant to go to Bali and I ended up in Idaho.

That's right, Idaho. And I remember you showing me, look at— and it was just like nothing. It was just like dirt and mountains, and it was quite beautiful, but it was not Bali.

No, I mean, honestly, the hilarity of that and my then actually loving those 3 to 4 months I spent, it was Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana. And it was good for many reasons. I think our experience in certain places colors our energy there. And towards the end of Silicon Valley, I had been so miserable that part of me was just, because I'm European, I was like, let me just get out of here. Like, I hate it all. I just want to get out of here.. And then I experienced the same place and even like probably like weirder places for someone that's an urbanite like me, like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, while being free. And I just, I loved it so much. And obviously in the pandemic, everyone else in the cities was like cramped in and I just had open field and mountains and deserts and it just felt amazing.

Yeah.

And by the time I could leave, I had been like hopelessly smitten by kind of the majesty of North America's national parks. And I mean, you and I are really the same, right? So our particular tribe, if you give us a year, we're not going to choose Idaho. But then sometimes there's also the beauty of just being somewhere completely unexpected and going, hey, you know what, other than the meticulous plans you're making, everything else can be amazing too.

Yeah, and I think that, that, like, that just the timing. So just take us, like, when you quit, like, what part of you did you have to draw on to, like, be like, okay, I'm putting in notice? Because that's the moment, like, that is a, that is a tipping scale moment. So, like, can you just, like, take us to that moment before you set off to Idaho? Like, how did you do that? Because it's, it's scary. Or was it?

Yes. Although I am a very stereotypical case, which means I had to get so miserable that staying wasn't even an option anymore. And like, I'm sure if we did kind of profiles of kind of the clients who come to us as well, there are people who are like on the edge and be like, help push me over the edge. And then there are people who at this point have no choice anymore because at this point they're so miserable. And hey, you know, if that's what comes of your misery, you finally do the thing that you didn't dare before, great. But for a lot of women, I think in corporations, it's either they push you into burnout. I wasn't there. I'd switched from, from Facebook to Pinterest, which was a little bit more humane in terms of pacing.

And you were doing leadership, weren't you doing leadership type work there?

No, I actually did ethics for them as well. But I had a little bit more influence there. So that was really fun for a while. But then the thing happened to me that like happens to a lot of women, you get to a point where you deserve a certain type of recognition, but you're getting passed over, someone else gets put in your place, it becomes miserable. And you realize that this, and this is prevalent in a lot of companies, right? Like this dream, oh, this mission that we have, and aren't you so lucky to be there? Yes, if at the same time I am valued, my boundaries are respected, and I am not passed over for someone else.

Opportunities, yeah.

You know, like, exactly. And so I do have a— I mean, you know me at this point, I'm like confident enough. And so if you like poke me too much and at some point my ego is like, hey, excuse me. Yeah, I— it was actually pretty quick that I was like, okay, well, we're leaving. You know, we're, we're waiting out. I didn't like rage quit or anything. I had another year before my stock options in that company came alive. So I just planned it to coincide with that and ended in my notice and the pandemic hit and voilà.

And then you're in Idaho. And I think that was like, you know, for me, like, that's a pretty, like, I would say, like, tech textbook you situation where like it didn't go how you thought, but it was actually exactly what you needed and even better. And that happened to you over and over and over again, which is the entrepreneurial path, like especially the feminine entrepreneur, because you were just following the opening.

Yes, or just— well, I wouldn't actually say surrender because I never surrender. I just kind of, okay, well, hilarious. I have a sense of—

Happening.

Yeah. Happened to me. So what next? And I just have— the one thing that's strange about me is just I cannot move back. And maybe that's that ego again. I will not admit defeat. So if this happens, I said I'll quit, pandemic hits, we're still quitting, we're still traveling. I'm not going back. I'm not taking another job. I will make the sabbatical happen in Idaho. And so there's just— I don't know what it is. Fight, stubbornness, persistence.

Yeah. Yeah. So after Idaho, then what happens? Um, and where were you on the clarification journey? Like, were you doing— because I think that's another thing, like, were you doing, you know, you were in certification, but like, how were you intentionally trying to get clarity? Or were you just like, I'm giving myself the year to just do nothing?

So this is where my coach came in, because I literally called that first year my blank canvas year.

And I love that.

And I told myself, you are not allowed to make any plans. You're not allowed to come up with the next thing because women like you and I, our ambition will drive us to go, okay, what's the next thing? What are we going to do? But that next thing that you're going to choose from a place of I should be doing something is never going to be as brilliant as something that naturally emerges. Because you're just being yourself in your most carefree state, your subconscious goes, oh, hey, we really love travel. Hey, like photography and design and languages were always something you were interested in. And at some point, and this is what happened when I moved to Europe, went to Sicily, went on a hike under the volcano of like Etna, and something in me was just going, you might as well go into hospitality. You travel, you read these magazines, you write well, you organize your own travel itineraries, you speak like 7 languages, you love people and have always done people and service-oriented jobs. So, and you know, and my parents were going, you, you want to go in a service-oriented industry? And again, with the opinions and the judgments. Yeah. And I ended up going, look, I did crisis management for executives. I cannot think of anyone more high maintenance than like a CEO, CMO, anything under a lot of stress. That's pretty much like being a butler at that point. So I'm, I'm ready. But like in hospitality, at least that, that's clean. You know, I know you give me money. I like, yeah, figure out how to give you the best of exactly what you're telling me to do. It's just more open.

Yeah. And I think like what I'm hearing is that the key piece here is that you created space for yourself. Like you took the pressure off. And, you know, I always say like the number one thing that will squash purpose, prosperity, money, love is pressure. Like you just— and so many women come to me, and I'm sure you too, and they're like, okay, I got to figure out like what is my thing? What is my purpose? I need to build the business. I need to start making money. And it's like, it's very difficult to get clarity from that place. And so I think one of the things that was so beautiful to watch on your journey is like, you just kept creating space and space. And through that space, like little pings and little breadcrumbs and little images and moments of clarity would emerge inevitably. And I think travel, you know, for both of us is one of our greatest teachers because it it gives you that, that data, like just through your existence.

Yes, I totally agree. Because in that space, your subconscious, not your thinking mind, but your subconscious starts connecting the dots. And one day when it is done, same as it does while you're dreaming and while you're sleeping, right? But like, once it is done, it'll take any excuse to just kind of elevate it for you and go, this, go try this. And then if you've done some of the work that we've done as well around listening to the whispers of intuition, you'll catch that inner voice that goes, hey, what about hospitality? And then if you have that added notion, and that's a little bit entrepreneurial, of like, why not? Let's give it a try. Nothing is permanent.

Mm-hmm.

Then, then you can explore it. And if it's for you, great. And if it's not for you, then you know what's not for you. So one step closer.

Exactly. And I, I literally was on a client call before this and I said the exact same thing. Like, I think it, it's so true. It's, it's the only way, the only way you fail is if you stop, is if you do nothing, is if you stall. Like, you just have to keep moving, you know? It's like you just have to keep moving. Like, what's the right next step? And, you know, like, you either win or you learn. Those are the only two options actually. And, you know, I think the thing that happens with both of us, and I think, you know, people fear won't happen, is that moment of illumination, that moment of hospitality. And then the next step appears. And once you see it, you truly can't unsee it. And like, you can't not take action. You just you, you— there's something I always say, you know, there's something bigger than you that will take over. And I think so many women are fearful, like, you know, what if I go on this journey and, you know, I get no clarity or I have no answers and I'm just exactly where I started? And, and, you know, well, what would you say to that fear?

Well, that in the trying everything, yeah, the clarity will emerge, right? And so the idea is just the most reasonable, where reasonable doesn't mean logical, but reasonable, like, as in, like, feels fitting kind of next step. And while you're on the next step, you're going to realize, is it this step, or is it a different version of this step? And then you make the next step, and one day, something's going to click in and go, oh, because if we're, like, honest about it too, it's just, I picked hospitality because it kind of made sense for me in that moment. And instead of trying to put this trap of, is this the definite soul calling of my life on it? I was like, this is pretty good. It is about like 400% better than the last thing.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna like go in and we'll figure out, because it's not that you apply to hospitality school and you, you're automatically in. So I'm applying, I have to write the essays. They either say yes or no. If they say yes, I still have the choice to feel into, do I actually want to say yes to their yes, or do I not? And so there's like a million opportunities along the way to learn. As you say, win or learn. Um, and it's just clarity by trial, pretty much.

It is. And I think that's the thing that people miss, and they want to bypass— they want to bypass the trial. They just want the clarity. And like, as much as I wish, you know, there was a process or a method, you know, I've created a process to expedite it, but like, we can't shortcut the trial and error, the failing, the, the just doing it, the data. We can't bypass it because that's where it emerges from. Always. I've never met someone where that was not the case.

Yes. And this is where, and this took me a long time to figure out, but this is where sometimes we're too intelligent for our own good.

Yeah.

Because if you're smart, some part of you at some point, and I had it, gets this God complex of thinking you can figure everything out by thinking.

Yeah.

And you think because your brain is so incredibly superior, and maybe you've worked in corporate careers and made excellent decisions, etc., etc., that you can think your way to the solution, and you can't. And if we have time, I'd like to There is in Designing Your Life, which is the course I used to teach at Pinterest, this study that they were talking about where— and you'll love it because it's about dating.

Oh yeah, my favorite topic.

They gave women the option before they went on dates to either see the resume of that guy or talk to 3 women that had been dating him, and then they had to rank how likely they are going to enjoy that date. And the majority of women ended up taking that resume. But actually, the truth is, we have no— like, there's no way of anticipating what we will like or not. The best thing is to experience it, and the next best thing obviously is experiencing it through someone else. So these 3 proxy women that already gone on a date were your best bet. But almost all women wanted to see the fact sheet. like the, like, I'm gonna think my way—

My bio data.

Yes, and you don't know. And I think we've all been there where we have some expectation in our head in dating and otherwise, and we're like, I know, I know what I like, I know what I want, especially if you're our age at this point. And I'm like, actually, love, you have no idea. And now I'm talking to myself, you have no idea. And I am the happiest now with someone that doesn't look anything like the person that I thought I was going to be dating.

Totally. And I think, you know, that— and we'll have to do another episode on your love story because I love that too. But, you know, I think that's such an amazing metaphor for, you know, we want the answers. Like, and a lot of women I see before they do coaching, before they kind of find their way into, you know, a woman who's walked the path world, they're like, like, okay, I'm in advertising, so I'm just gonna go to another advertising job because like that matches up. Or, you know, for me, like, I was like, I'm in education, so I'm just gonna like go work for another school or another edtech company. No, I'm gonna go to edtech because I'll make more money doing that. You know, that was my logical thought process. But like, had I done that, I mean, like, I would have missed— I wouldn't have missed my whole life, but it would have been a very different journey. And I I think, you know, there's a real empowerment to walking through the mud, walking through the desert, like paving the path that doesn't necessarily have a clearly defined footprint so that you can find your own journey. Because I think for both of us, like, we've really landed in a place of truth within ourselves, and that's reflected in our outer worlds.

Yeah, I mean, nowadays, so one thing I have learned is if you can risk it, by which I mean, there is enough of a safety net, there is enough of like a backdrop, you have a year or two to figure this out, then, then you have to do it. You just have to, because the reward for those two years of giving yourself the space will be exponential compared to that adjacency strategy that you were talking about, that feels safer, but gives you no— canvas to play with. Yeah, you're just moving over an inch to the right on the current sheet of paper. Yes. Like, why not take up the whole space and see what's out there? And again, because we don't even know, we have no idea what's out there. And if you're multi-passionate and multi-talented, like most of the women we work with, try everything.

Right.

And that's the other thing. People will try the next thing sometimes, and it'll be good enough. And some part of you knows that this is good enough, but not great yet.

Not yet. Yeah.

But it's a little better than the last thing. And you stay right there.

Yeah. Because again, it's kind of like you jump to the next island. Okay. I can breathe here now. Okay. And I, you know, I think like one thing that's so interesting about you and I is like, I mean, when we met, I was living in New York, you were in Silicon Valley. Like, I mean, you're living in Greece now. And I'm living in Mexico. Like, I don't— was Greece ever on your radar? Yeah, it wasn't on Mexico. Like, I had been to like Cancún on spring break, you know, like neither of these places were on our radar. We could have never— like, this was not an adjacent, logical, like fact-checkable step for either of us, but the journey led us here. And I think that's what— that's not at risk, but that's what the opportunity of is to— with this blank canvas concept that you've mentioned, which I love, is like you could literally go anywhere, you could be anything. And if that were possible, where would you go and who would you be and what would you do?

Yeah, it is interesting. And I'm wondering what you would say to that, because you've been working in dreams— your name is literally Dream Doula— for so much longer, that something about the word dream feels intimidating to women. To even confess to what you would do if you really dreamed really big, like, people don't even want to take you up on that. Yeah, so that's the thing, actually.

They, they don't, you know, and that's a, that's a great point. And I've never heard— I know that to be true, but I don't think anyone's ever told me that, like, it's intimate— the word dream or dreaming is intimidating. But what I know and what I see so often is women come to me and I'm like, you know, I'll usually ask something like, okay, like, what's the dream? Like, what's the vision? And they're like, I have no idea. And for me, I'm like, okay, amazing. What don't you want? And they're like, I don't want to be in this job. I don't want to have to get up at 6:00 AM every morning. I don't want to get home exhausted. Okay, amazing. Like, and we just start kind of chipping away And then, you know, the, the, the journey forms. But I think, you know, the thing, the thing to remember is that what you said, which is like, you didn't know you'd end up here. Like, you just took the— you just knew the right next step was to leave Pinterest. Then the right next step was to travel. Then the right next step was to go to Europe. And then you were in the cave and you had the vision of hospitality. And then you got the vision hospitality school, and it— you just kept like, the dreams kept appearing before you, and you have to have faith that that will happen.

Yeah, and I think you now reminded me of how resourceful most intelligent women— most women, actually, how resourceful every woman is. Because, okay, so you choose something and that was not it, but you're in here now. Let's say like, I shows graduate school wasn't all that it was cranked out to be. But within hospitality school, I again now have 100 choices. All I got to do is choose one that actually feels the best, and then I go in this direction. And then wherever I end up among the 100 choices, I make the one that's most aligned with who I am again. And gradually, gradually, gradually, I will find my way to something.

Yes.

Amazing. And I also have to say, the life that I have right now with building a resort in Greece is incredible, and it is a dream. Life. If I had chosen to go to photography school, I would be doing something different, and it would be equally amazing because it's actually not— and I think this is why I now harp on lifestyle, because it is not about the very concrete steps, it's about a very quality of life and being.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and when you and I talk about dream, oftentimes it stands in for freedom, liking yourself, not having regrets, having the kind of people in your life that say yes to you and, you know, keep you loved and happy, etc., etc. It's not even about the steps. By taking the steps, we just practice that very specific type of being.

Yes. And it's a, it's a way of being that I mean, to me, like, it feels like the way of truth, you know, like, and, you know, when we talk about prosperity, like, to me, like, prosperity can— the frequency of prosperity can really only exist in this way of being where you're just like in this clicked alignment with, you know, the universe, the yes and, you know, the, the, the possibility of, you know, what's around the corner. I don't know, but I trust myself enough to say yes to what's calling me to that pull. and that's when, you know, you, you start seeing, you know, the clients come or the clarity or whatever you're seeking. Things start to crystallize and clarify, but you have to have the faith that that's going to happen. And I think like you're such a testament of it will, it will.

Yes, but talking about faith, and because most of us in the beginning when we start walking do not have the faith, you go grow some faith, and that's why coaches exist in the end. And that's why I came to you, because you're specifically did entrepreneurial coaching. And as much as I wanted it, I had absolutely no faith in myself to get started. And I trusted you enough as a leader, and I also know your history. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna go where Claire Sellers Sellers is, and I will borrow her faith in me. And I know you enough to, again, sorry for the language, know that you're not a bullshitter. And so if you say it's possible for me, and we talked and etc., etc., then it is possible. And for now, until I develop my own sense of faith and confidence or whatever, I'm going to borrow it from you. And that's how friendships go.

Yeah.

That's how coaching goes. That's how consulting goes. And it's totally fine. You don't have to, like, be the cockiest, most confident woman there is. If you have someone that gives you clarity and meshes it with faith as well, you can do anything.

Totally. I love that. I love that. And I'm doing the same thing, you know, like every time before I launch something, I'm like, I don't think I can do this. I mean, like, it might look like, you know, I'm like, this is gonna be a slam dunk. But I assure you, like, real talk behind the scenes, I'm like, oh my God, like, I'm scared. I don't wanna do it. And my coaches are like, Claire, just go, just do it. Like, you know, this is gonna work. Just do it. Like, I'm borrowing faith too. And I love that term. It's— and I think, I think it's, it, it's the way of designing a life of, you know, purpose and freedom and fulfillment, which is, you know, I think what we're both in the business of at, at the end of the day, and helping other women do the same.

And why we believe in sisterhood too, because we'll all run out of the inner resources that are needed to do something difficult. And building a dream and being an entrepreneur is difficult. But in a group of women, not only is there an endless supply of generosity, but there is always at least a few of us who can give at this moment in time. And then when they're exhausted, the next people give. Even one-on-one, that's really hard. I mean, you know, like we have one-on-one clients, but even we have to like, you know, replenish our own. Yeah. Sense of rest, safety, etc. But in a group of women, if you set that up, that is like a self-fulfilling container of just power and energy.

Yeah. And I was just going to say, like, everything is energy. Like, I woke up this morning and I was like, I barely slept last night. I don't know what's going on. And I woke up this morning and I was like, oh my God, I'm so tired. And I literally put on— I listen to the same song over and over again, like obsessively, like a crazy person. So I put on Dua Lipa, "Be the One," and within one song I was like, "I'm back." Everything is energy. You can flip your energy on a dime. And for me, the fastest way to do that is obviously like movement, dance, but even more so is being in somebody else's field. who's looking at you with their whole heart and saying like, you can do this, keep going, what's next? Nothing will motivate you faster than having someone who like truly wholeheartedly believes in you and can show you the way forward, which is— yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, no, no, no. And especially for women, because we're so relationally oriented, sometimes I will do do for another woman what I might not do for myself.

For yourself.

Like, for example, when you believed in me and you, like, you know, you reviewed my copy for my programs, etc., etc., there's no way I was gonna let you down, right? You thought I could do it, so I'm doing it whether I want to or not. And, and if you put yourself in the right company of people that deserve that loyalty, that can be trusted, etc., then that's, that's going to propel you as well. And again, there's no shame in that. Like, I'm not always going to do it for myself. Sometimes I'm just— that person believes in me, I will not let them down. Whatever gets you moving.

And that, you know, that is why I credit, you know, same to you, like, my first coach who I hired in Bali. Like, I couldn't self-motivate, but like, I'll be damned if I let another woman down.

Yeah.

So when I, when I told her like, yes, I will, you know, find the videographer and the subject for my travel TV pilot and I'll have it done by next week. She's like, okay, great. And I'm like, okay, I gotta do this. I would've never done anything that I did on that time around the world by my—

I just wouldn't have.

I just wouldn't have. And I think that's like the power of coaching and why we do what we do, which is an amazing segue. Like tell people like, where are you in your business now? Like what what's, what's the landscape of— and let's focus on, you know, you're, you're obviously building this incredible hotel project, which hopefully we can all come visit one day. But tell us, like, where are you in the evolution of your business? And how is your business feeling for you now? Because it's been a journey.

Yes, it has been a journey. And I started out as, like, you know, like a life and a career coach, a lot of people just wanted to change what they were doing, doing that adjacency that we talked about. And then at some point, I realized, because we, we always the coaches for the ones who are just 5 inches behind us, right? And so at this point, I actually don't call myself a life coach anymore. And, um, and you know that because I came up with that while I was in your program. But now I have the School and Art of Thriving because I'm uninterested in merely being successful in whatever. I want to know, like, what is the most delicious feeling? And that could be freedom, love, whatever it is in the moment that I can have as a woman outside of the regular milestones that someone's giving me. Um, what I'm doing right now, only because again, I feel like there's so much need, is I have this program. We talked about it again. I came up with it, um, during your program, that, uh, Dream Hive program. That's essentially for women who are kind of— I can't call it quit because I think that scares people, talking about intimidating work. Yeah. But part of me is like, my goodness, like some of you know you want to quit.

Yeah.

And just, it is at this point, it is so en vogue. Everyone's doing it. You can call it sabbatical. I don't—

Career break.

Whatever you want to do. And I don't want people to wait until they're as miserable as we were when we were making that step. Let me just look, I've, you know, like I've 90 days, 12 weeks.

Yeah.

Let's do that clarity thing. What is your dream? Put you in a group of women and let's see what's possible. And look, if at the end of it, because let's be real, it also took me 4 years, right? You don't want to quit right then and there, cool, don't do it. But now you have a blueprint for the time where you are ready and you don't do what we did, which is like, ah, derp derp derp. Like, I don't know. You have all the resources and you have a few people on Speed Tile and in WhatsApp that you can just go, I think I'm ready now. Who will go, absolutely yes, do it, we've been waiting.

Yes, oh, I love that, I love that. And I think like, you know, it's just such a gift. Like, I, I saw this thing once on Instagram, or an image, and it was like, you know, as a woman, your sacred responsibility is to climb the ladder and then turn around and hold your hand out for every woman behind you. And I just think of that so often because I don't want to do this just for me. I want to do it to bring other people up with me. And I think you're doing the same thing, and it's just, it's like the greatest gift of my lifetime, and I think yours too, to be able to make offerings that actually help women step into and up into who they're meant to be. Like, is there anything more important?

I love that. I'm actually very curious because you're now really leaning into prosperity, which makes so much sense for me. But what exactly it is that really fuels you in this moment, because we know that's always changing, right? Because part of my thing around getting people to quit, leap, etc., really is like at the moment I feel so passionate about the idea of fear because I've been so afraid my entire life. And part of me hates the idea that some people don't do things because they think that if I'm afraid, that's not for me. Yeah. And so that's where this whole thing comes from. And I'm curious, like, now that you're really leaning into prosperity, what is it that, like, fuels this particular moment in time of your business and this podcast?

Yeah, I love that question. You know, I think— and I'm going to ask you as we close, like, what does prosperity mean to you? But it's a good opportunity for me to share. Like, you know, I remember one of my teachers, my Kundalini teachers, Jai Dev, of speaking into what prosperity is. And, you know, he basically said like, prosperity is your purpose. Like, you having a purpose is the essence of prosperity and will yield what you might think of as prosperity, which is, you know, money or whatever, whatever it might be, which is actually less exciting to me, the money piece. Like, I mean, I've made money and like, I still get more lit up by having conversations with women and leading retreats and seeing the world. And, you know, money is a vehicle for me to do the things that I love. And that's it. Like, that's all it means to me. And I think like what is inspiring me in my business right now is showing women that you can literally build a business from anything. Like, I really believe that inside of every woman is a business waiting to born. I do not believe that. And, you know, again, there's some, but I would say the majority of women have a dream, they have a desire, they have a little glimmer. Like, maybe it's to open a bookshop or have an Airbnb rental cabin or, you know, a chocolate factory, or, you know, it could be any of these things. Like, and I'm literally front row center watching, you know, dozens of women make those things reality. And what excites me in this evolution of my business is like, how can I not create the containers and the spaces for you to do that? For you to bring your dream earthside and then to make as much or as little money as you want so that you can live the life that you wanna live. And maybe that means, you know, you have 85 designer purses, or maybe it means, you know, you live out of a backpack. It doesn't matter.

Matter.

But like, I want you to have this. There's, there's nothing that will give you more life force, which is also prosperity. There's nothing that will give you more life force than doing the thing that you're meant to be doing, or being on the path to discovering it.

I love that. And just, this is what always happens, right? You come across a truth like yours. There's a business is in every woman waiting to be born, and all of who pursue that path make it there.

Yeah.

Like, it's possible. And then to live with that truth in a world that tells you that pretty much anything is impossible unless you're, I don't know, a unicorn. I would, I would need to scream that from the rooftop as well. Like, I think my version of that is just nothing happens when quit other than you'll be so incredibly wildly happy, you will not be able to stand it.

Yes.

Um, so it's again like we come across a truth through our own experiences and then we're like, I can't keep this on the inside.

I can't, I can't not. Yeah, it's— I love it. This has been such an amazing conversation. I like to close with 3 questions. With all of my guests. The first one is, what does prosperity mean to you?

Okay, well, your answer was much more enlightened than what my answer is going to be.

I doubt that.

Yours is all inspired by deep spirituality. For me, it's— for me, it is a— it's a mix of having and feeling. And having— I think there is an amount, like a level of having energy, money, and support that to me sustains these feelings of freedom, carefreeness, creativity, etc., that to me make up quality of life. And so I don't even just want what I need, I want just a little bit enough just so I can relax. And a relaxed woman is so rare that to me that's a form of transparency.

And that's a program for you, The Relaxed Woman. And we'll talk about it later, but that's good.

Um, and then there is a feeling, and that feeling— sometimes you can have all of these things and the feeling of being carefree or having enough or believing in possibilities in yourself is not there. So then there's like that inner prosperity of just really believing things are possible for you, matched with the actual resources you need to be relaxed, because, you know, needs and capitalism or whatever are real. And to me that's prosperity. But I will say, and you and I have talked about this, that a certain level of money in this world as a woman is a form of safety and freedom that I absolutely want everyone to have. And there is enough money for everyone, which is why I love people like you who help people build businesses, because that money is there. It just goes to like—

Yeah.

—more of the same sources right now. And so just grab some of it so you can feel free. And when women feel feels free and is resourced and overflows with that, she always gives it away. Always.

Always.

So we don't have to worry about women with too much money because the moment we have money, we give it to—

Right.

Yes.

I love that. I love that. That's— that was a beautiful definition of pro— or what does prosperity mean to you. Okay, next question. What is the next dream that you are devoted to bringing to creating? Like, what's the thing that you're just like, I'm— this is my focus right now.

I'm overdue to read a book. I have all the chapters. I have the whole outline through a friend, Michaela Trumbull, who does these amazing writing workshops. And the reason why I need to do that at this point is not even for that book. It's like sometimes one dream clogs your system and you cannot get to these other dreams because some part of you is like, well, I haven't even written this book. Book. Like, why should I come up with 10 other dreams? So I need to write this book not even for anything other than so I can move on and have 20 other dreams.

I love that. Yay! I will be launch party, first copy, front row, all the things. This has been such an amazing conversation. Where can people find you? Like, what's the best way to connect with you? I know everyone's going to be like, oh my God, I want to follow her journey. Janette has a gorgeous Instagram with gorgeous photos, and you can see her incredible life in Greece and all over the world. So where should people find you? How can they connect with you?

I actually think my Instagram, the, uh, Nomad_Blood one, really is the best. It's where I'm myself, actually. I'm one of the few weirdos who loves using Instagram, and then from there you can find website and whatever. But like Instagram, pretty much Nomad_Blood. Nomad Blood.

Amazing. And we'll do, we'll do another episode on your love story and where Nomad Blood came from because it's such an interesting story. But this has been so amazing. We'll link all your things, we'll link the Dream Hive, your Instagram in the show notes. I know people are going to want to learn more from you and follow your continued journey. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been just so enlivening and such a joy to be on your journey. And here's to decades more of growing and learning and being prosperous together.

I love that. Thank you. And thank you for making my business come into fruition in the first place.

My pleasure. Thank you for tuning in to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I am so grateful for your presence and for being a part of this community. Feel free to DM me at @itsclairesellers. @ClaireSellers on Instagram. I would love to connect with you and hear what resonated with you in this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the show, and if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave a 5-star review. Your feedback means the world to me and helps me reach more incredible women just like you. And because I love to spoil you, just DM me a screenshot of your review on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And I'll send you my free Prosperity Activation Course as a thank you. It's my way of investing in you and your dreams. Thank you.