Ep. 20: The Art of Magnetic Marketing with Lauren Bates of Wild Terrains and Studio Womankind

now I have kind of a standard of like, these are the types of people I wanna work with. And so if it's not an e-commerce site where anyone could just buy, you know, you're gonna be saying no to some people because they don't align with these values. And I think that's really hard for people, but you also have to trust that like, if it's a good idea and if your values resonate with some people, they're probably gonna resonate with a lot of people. You just haven't found those people yet.

Welcome to the Prospect Welcome to The Prosperous Woman Podcast. I'm Claire Sellers, a business mentor and coach who is absolutely obsessed with helping you create the business of your dreams and your most prosperous life. Tune in for inspiring conversations with extraordinary women that will propel you towards becoming a prosperous woman. Welcome, welcome to the Prosperous Woman Show. I am so excited. My first repeat guest because you guys loved her episode so much last time, Lauren Bates, my incredible friend, my former client, my dear, dear sister, and the marketing expert of all marketing experts. We are gonna deep dive into her philosophy around marketing and all things building brands that have soul. Lauren, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me back. Hard to like speak after an introduction like that.

So tell us a little bit for people who didn't watch when you were on our first season. Tell us a little bit about you 'cause you've had a very interesting career. I was fortunate enough to be your coach in the early days of Wild Terrains and have just loved watching you grow. But take us back even like before that 'cause it was actually interesting what you were doing then and and how it has impacted how you've grown the business and now grown your second business, Studio Womankind. So tell us about all that.

Okay, well, so I'm the founder of Wild Trains now. That's sort of my main gig. And I launched a second brand this year called Studio Womankind that is more of an educational platform where I can kind of pay it forward to other women entrepreneurs. And within that, I'm running a live marketing course and we're almost done with the first round and it's just been so fun. My background though is, is very chaotic, honestly. So I have a degree in mathematics and financial economics. Out of college, I went to work for PwC, PricewaterhouseCoopers. Hated it. It was a good company to work for, and I learned a lot of professional skills, but then I quickly jumped ship and went to a small advertising agency. And that's where I got my, what I call my marketing masters. I didn't study marketing.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I have a quantitative background, but I was really creative. So it really was like the perfect merge of being a really creative visual person and understanding numbers, data, and how to merge them together to tell a story. Um, and so I worked there for several years and then I eventually, uh, moved to a small startup at the time called Urban Stems, which is a flower delivery company. I was their first employee. I eventually grew to be their CMO, chief marketing officer, um, and really helped scale and build that brand from the ground up. And I learned a ton doing that. And After that, I got let go from that job. I think if you watched the per— first podcast episode, we talk about that, um, which was really a blessing in disguise because it created room for me to start Wild Trains, which is what I've been running for 7 years now. And, uh, it's a women's group travel company that supports women-owned businesses and entrepreneurs around the world through our group trips. And we've been really successful. And I think the main reason is that we— our marketing is really well done. And we're— I should add, we are a profitable business with zero debt and zero investors. And so our marketing spend is not very high. We don't have a lot of budget, and we've still been able to grow into a multimillion-dollar business. with the marketing strategy that we have.

I love that. Oh, I just, I mean, you guys, if you've ever worked with me, I've talked about Lauren in any of my groups. I'm like, I always mention you. I mention WildTrains. I'm like, I just think the way that you lead and the way that you've built WildTrains is just the gold standard. And I, you know, I've had the privilege of being on the inside of that and watching all the iterations. Lauren didn't mention that she launched Wildtrains in the pandemic and survived that, which most, I don't really know many travel companies that were as early on. I guess you launched a little bit right before, when did you launch?

Me? So I started building the business early 2018. The first full year was 2019. But COVID, COVID happened after the first year.

Yeah, we just started working together to start scaling and COVID.

Yeah.

Right before COVID hit and you were like, there's this thing going on in China. And I'm like, it'll be fine, don't worry about it. And then the next thing we knew it was not fine. But you survived that using a lot of, I think, creative marketing strategies and brand building strategies. And I actually think just like you getting let go, you know, from UrbanStems, I think the timing of WildTrains was actually a blessing in disguise. The skies because I think you were, it was like you were new to the market, but you used that time when people couldn't travel to build massive know, like, trust.

Mm-hmm.

And when, you know, the world opened up again, it was like off to the races and it's just been, you know, go, go, go ever since. So everything always works out in our highest favor. And that's something I think through all the trials and tribulations, like Lauren, you have, you've ridden all the waves. So, I just wanna celebrate that. So talk to us just a little bit more deeply about Studio Womankind, your desire to pay it forward, cuz I do think you figured something out that most people haven't, and you created this magnetic marketing course to, to try to help women, cuz I think you and I both see so many women struggling to get their genius, their work, their products, their services out into the world. So tell us about that as kind of like your philosophy of marketing Studio Womankind and magnetic marketing?

Yeah, Studio Womankind really came from this place of people were asking me for advice and I needed a space to deliver it. And so I started, I offer mentor sessions, which are like one-off. You can buy a package, you can meet with me. I think it's, it's a cool offering because when I was starting, you know, there were so many women entrepreneurs I would've loved to talk to them and ask their opinions on things and just ask what tools they were using. And, and I didn't have that. I think it's really, you know, entrepreneurs are really busy. And so it felt important to me to set aside some time where people, you know, people are paying me for that time because it's just, I have to charge for it. But it's really, you know, time I'm setting aside to dedicate to entrepreneurs who are just starting out or feel a little bit stuck. Um, and they can really ask me anything. And then the marketing course was, you know, in those sessions I started to get asked questions about how do you do your marketing? What's your philosophy on marketing? And I quickly realized I can't explain it in just an hour. And, uh, it's really a— It's not complicated. I actually think my marketing strategy is very human, and once you understand it, possible to follow, but it really, when I mapped out the course, it's 8 sessions that are an hour and a half each. So it's a lot of time to explain my marketing philosophy. So I'm running this course live right now. I'm probably gonna do it again in January, and then I'm gonna see where it goes from there. I've loved teaching it. I've had so much more fun than I thought I would, um, teaching it. And I think marketing is just really an intimidating task if it's something that you haven't been trained in. And even if you've been trained in it, I think the way that consumers are identifying with brands, connecting with brands, deciding to make purchases has just really changed in the last 5 to 7 years. And so this is really designed to help you get moving. Like, you walk away from the class with a 3-month marketing calendar and plan, and there's a ton of strategy behind it.

Yeah. And I love that. And I think, you know, it's so— it is— marketing is intimidating. And I think it's so helpful to have someone to help you break that down with a very human approach. Because I took marketing classes in college, and honestly, I don't even remember what we talked about, but it's nothing that I've or taught now.

Yeah.

So what, from your perspective, like what is magnetic marketing and how does it differ from traditional marketing strategies that are out there?

I think that there is, look, there's all these strategies you can find online. You're gonna be, I feel like I'm sold courses and techniques and even just if you narrow to one channel like Instagram, you know, people are like, how to get more followers, how to get more engagement. And I think that is really like an unfortunate side of marketing, like, uh, sort of the world we live in, because I think it's not actually what builds brands that can withstand the test of time and brands that people really emotionally connect with. And so a lot of what I'm teaching is like, it's almost a reframe of what marketing is. And also like what you were actually selling and tapping into a more emotional type of marketing. So the, the best example I can give is for Wildtrains, I'm not selling travel. Like I really believe that that's why in COVID I built a million dollar business in COVID when nobody was traveling. And what do I mean by that? Like, people were giving me money for trips that maybe would happen in the future, and they were still buying trips during COVID because what I was selling was our core values, which are community, connection, and every woman can sit with us. And travel is a medium for those core values. But when I'm marketing I'm actually marketing community connection. Every woman can sit with us, which are brand values that a lot of people can identify with. They're also like, those words trigger an emotion inside all of us that is deeper than just taking a vacation. And so my whole marketing strategy is really built on how do I explain and tap into those emotions? Mm-hmm. For my customers in a way that says, I see you, we see you, you have a space here. And that customer is way more likely when they feel that way to buy from us once. And then they— and then also the product matches it, right? We're not selling that and then the product doesn't deliver. The product also, you feel like, wow, this is the best community experience I've ever had. This is— I have so much connection with these women. I really feel like I have a seat at the table and so does everyone else. And how How beautiful is that? So because those match, someone goes on a trip and then they tell all their friends and then they come back and then they rebook again. And so the marketing has these sort of like legs that you could never create by just selling a trip to Argentina. It, it just wouldn't have the same impact. And so that's what I'm teaching in the course is really how do you, you know, obviously every brand is different. Community and connection wouldn't be the values for other brands. Uh, but how do you figure out what your brand's core values are and ones that you can be talking about all the time and not get sick of, and you can really believe and really infuse into your products? And then how do you really like— The words you're using, do they match the imagery you're choosing? Does it match the platforms you are— you're on? Are those the right platforms where the people who want the things that you're talking about are paying, you know, they're spending time on those platforms. So yeah, I'm super excited about it. I think the, the brands that are in it right now are so interesting. And, and we have some travel companies, we have a flower farm, we have a recipe app, uh, an Italian language school, a vintage shop. Mm-hmm. So we have like all these different brands and it's been so fun to see them really like do— there's homework every week, so they're like figuring this out week by week and I'm seeing their progress and it's just, I can't wait to see the results after they're done.

I, I love that. And you know, I love what you said. There's two things here I wanna highlight. One, like I always talk about, you know, Uber isn't selling rides, they're selling time. You know, they're selling you being able to, you know, get from A to B in half the time. You know, Drybar, another brand I love, I live right next to one. They're not selling blowouts. They're selling like sexy beach waves. Like they're selling the confidence that you feel when you walk out of there and you get ready for a date and you, you know, just feel like a million bucks. And this is, I always tell my clients, like women buy based on emotion. No one is buying travel. Like, people are buying the way that it feels to take a deep breath, you know, on a lounge chair overlooking the ocean in Ibiza. Like, they're, they're buying the cheersing to, you know, 20 new friends at a table. You know, that's what they're buying, the desired emotion and the connection to that. And, and it's not easy to convey that when you have a product or service. And I think the reason you've been able to do it is because that's who you are. you are, you know, like community connection, seat at the table. Like that's who you are as a human and as a founder, you know, like for, and I'll just, I've had the privilege of going to your gorgeous wedding and it was so, even that was your values were woven into that. You know, everyone felt like they were a part of the family. Like everyone had a beautiful seat at this gorgeous table. Like this is who you are as a human. And so your brand is an extension of who you are. And so it's all so in alignment. And it's when you create the brand from the inside out, which is one of the things that I teach inside of the Dream Accelerator, it's so much easier to do marketing well, right? Because it's who you are in your heart and in your soul, and it's what you believe in your heart and your soul. And it's so much easier to convey all of that when you can actually peel back the layers and build a business from that place versus some external place, you know, where you're, you're just selling like trips to Iceland, for example, or you're just selling like, you know, I don't know, phone covers. Like there has to be a story, there has to be an emotional component. And I believe you can market anything if you do it well and if you do it from the place of I need to make people feel something in order to want to invest in this.

Totally. And I think, you know, I, I wanna like distinguish, this is something we do in the class is we, part of the, the brand strategy is personifying your brand. Mm-hmm. So like picking like an, like an actual archetype or a person. And so for me, I do think that the values of the brand are similar to my own values, which is really helpful because I'm not having to like search for something that isn't me to do the work. But my, my like brand personified for Wild Trains isn't me. It's the best dinner party host you've ever met. And it's like what I dream to be, you know, I'm not that, but it's like the best version that could be is the best dinner party host. And that, you know, it's— this is like a really cool exercise, I think, for people because once you have that in your mind of like Okay, who's my persona for the brand? Then every time you write a post, you're writing from that voice. And every time you make a decision in your business, like even ones people don't see, you know, you're saying, is this in line with the, what the best dinner party host would do? And, um, yeah. And so I think even finding like a really specific archetype is helpful for people to figure out like, how are you gonna market? How are you gonna show up?

And it's funny cuz it reminds me of, and you've done this, the saboteur and the higher self. Self, which if you've been my client, you know what I'm talking about. You know, we help— I help everyone identify their saboteur, which is, you know, the, the part of them that's like, you can't do it, no one wants to buy from you. You know, it's this, this negative Nancy voice in your head. And then I have everyone identify your highest self, and this is the part of you that's already built the business, you know, that's already overcome visibility fears, you know, that already has launched the new products or whatever it might be. And You know, I see what you're talking about is kind of like the level 2 layer to that. It's like, okay, let's personify the brand. 'Cause I do think that it gets sticky, especially when you have a product-based business or a non-lifestyle. Like I have a lifestyle brand, I am the business, you know, I don't, I don't, I am my business. That's how I am. But Wild Terrains, I think it's, and other businesses that have, physical products or service-based products like you do, I think it's so helpful to have a separation of you and the business, right? And to do it in a way that, you know, I would say you are the best party host. I, I mean, I'm pretty sure you would be, but you don't— you, you separate that in your mind. So you probably have an image of, you know, I saw like you know, a woman, like, just dressed super chicly, and she's, like, just tutsing with the flowers on the table. You know, in your mind, it's, it's like an elevated version or an elevated friend or something like that, but it's not you. And I think that's actually a very healthy point to create that separation.

Yeah. I, I think for me, I always knew it was gonna be bigger than me, so I never made myself the centerpiece. You know, even though obviously I'm the owner and I'm very active in the business, but like the goal was if I ever needed to step away for several months, like to have a child, you know, that I could and the business would keep going without me. And so I also think there's just a little bit less pressure because it is scary, it is vulnerable to put yourself out there. So if it's this persona that I'm putting out there who's a fictional character, there's less risk to that. And so some of the personas people have come up with in class are so fun. And I've really challenged people, you know, in the beginning people were like, it's your best friend. And I was like, no, it needs to be more specific. And so there was like, one woman in the class who is hoping to open a flower farm and her persona is like the coastal grandma, but it's garden grandma.

Mm-hmm.

And she's not a garden grandma. She's like, you know, in her 30s and, you know, very young and But I was— I love that persona because it opens up so many options for her in terms of like quirky voice she can use, patterns, like, you know, a lot of floral prints. And maybe that isn't her, but it allows her to like really push herself in the branding and the marketing in a way that like she might not let herself go.

I was, I was just going to say like so many of my clients, especially in the early days inside of the Dream Accelerator, they really struggle with visibility, like posting on Instagram, you know, I'm starting a business. Like just saying that can feel really scary. And I do think that this, what do you call it? Business persona? What do you call it?

Your brand persona.

Yeah, brand persona. I think that in a way I could see this also being really helpful of overcoming visibility fears because because you can write in the voice of your business, your brand persona, not you.

Yeah, it's great for, you know, an introvert who's like, my worst nightmare is doing Instagram. And like, it, you know, a lot— there was one woman in the class who told me, she was like, you're gonna turn us all from like Instagram nos to Instagram hots, you know, like we like love Instagram now. And it's not because I'm trying to sell Instagram, it's just like I'm trying to The course has a lot of examples where we look at real brands, we break down what they're doing, and I think, I hope it's inspirational and really lets people, like you're saying, let go of that kind of internal fear of I'm putting myself out there and reframe and say, wow, this is really fun to test all these ideas. And yeah, it's a different persona. It's not me. And so there's less risk inherently in that.

Hey sister, I'm interrupting this episode with a message that I think you might need to hear today. Listen, we get one precious life, and I believe in my heart of hearts that inside of every single woman, yes, even you, is a business waiting to be born. This is what I want for you. I want you to wake up energized, feeling alive, free, and inspired every day. Where you're the woman who leaps out of bed in the morning so excited to start the day. You thought that that was just in the movies, but no, this is actually your real life. You're no longer sitting behind the scenes or a screen thinking, who am I to have a successful business? You are now the woman that everyone wonders, how is she doing that? You feel electrified by your purpose and vision. Which looks like you being a founder and CEO, knowing exactly what your business does, how it helps people, and sales roll in with ease daily. You know that your business has the structure to support you and your bank account because you have built a purpose-led movement with a loyal following, steady sales, and consistent revenue. Listen, this is all possible for you and the Dream Accelerator, my signature 4-month Business birthing program will absolutely help you make your dream a reality. Over 100 businesses— yes, 100 businesses across 20 industries have been born through the Dream Accelerator process, and I would love you to become my next dream business success story. So just click the link below to book a Dream Biz Clarity Call, totally free, no obligation. I just wanna connect with you and see how I can help. Or if you just wanna take a look at the details, we'll link it in the show notes, or you can DM me Dream on Instagram @itsclairesellers, and I will shoot you a link with more details. I'm so excited to connect with you and see how I can support you in making your dream business a reality. And I think also just to note for anyone who's listening, who's— I think so many women come into the Dream Accelerator having not yet started their business yet, you know, in Opulence, these women have already started their business, like they're post posting regularly, but in the Dream Accelerator, a lot of them haven't started a business and they've never talked about starting a business on Instagram. And one of the biggest things that we have to undo is like, I'm introverted, so I don't even know if I'm meant to start a business. And I just wanna tell everyone out there, like, you don't have to be some stage, you know, loving extrovert to have a business. that has an online presence. And Lauren, I'm sure I've seen so many women overcome this, and I'm sure you have too.

Yeah, I would say majority of the women in my class, I would guess, would test introverted. I think introverts— I'm an extrovert, so, but I think introverts have amazing ideas because typically if you're an introvert, you're more of an observer. You're watching what's happening, happening around you. You tend to be more connected with like what other people are feeling, I think. And so you have really brilliant ideas. And then I think those ideas sometimes don't see the surface because they, yeah, there's fear of being very vulnerable. But we need those ideas, right? We all, we all need, and that's really where I think my, I was scared to launch this course again because it's not Wild Trained, it's me. And it was putting me out there and it, I was saying I'm a marketing expert and then I was like, what am I? Who am I to launch this course, you know, and who needs another course? I really had a lot of imposter syndrome I had to get over.

You were scared. I remember you being like, I'm scared to launch the course. And I was like, I was even surprised by that. But I also understood because it was, this was a more lifestyle-centered product, you know, it was more centered around you versus a brand that was so apart from you. And, and, and it is two different styles of marketing and styles of business, you know, like in the, the launch of Magnetic Marketing, like you had to talk about you, your journey.

Yeah.

Like, and I was like, are people gonna find this interesting?

And then I was getting—

They did.

Feedback. They like loved it. And so that gave me a lot of confidence. I remember going, the reason I started, uh, Studio Womankind is really this desire of like, I think more women-owned businesses should exist, which obviously is a lot of the premise of Wild Terrains is supporting women's businesses. But I think the world is a better place. Women tend to get less funding. I think they get 2% of all VC funding in the world. And so what does that mean? If you're a woman who starts a business, you have to be strategic and smart and it has to be profitable because you're not counting on anyone else to bankroll your business. And so I think really what happens is women build more intentional businesses. They think about their impacts on the world when they're building their business. They think about their community more. Like we see, we see the data on that. When women have more money, the world is doing better. Um, and when there are women leaders in power, like those places tend to have better quality of life, healthcare, maternity care, all those things. So for me, that was like the biggest driver. And again, that's what I teach in the course. You have to have a bigger driver. My, my goal wasn't launch a marketing course and get rich, you know, my goal was launch a marketing course so that more women-owned businesses can be started, more women-owned businesses can thrive, and that the like net effect of that is the world is a better place. And that's like, I believe it to my—

Yeah.

Down to my bones, you know?

Yeah. And it, it, I always say like your business is bigger than you and if it's not bigger than you, then we need to reconfigure how you're thinking about your business, you know, like You didn't just start Wildtrains because you wanted to travel.

Yeah.

Like, it would not have worked.

No, no. And like, there's so many parts of owning a travel business, which, you know, and we talk about all the time, it's, you know, not so glamorous sometimes.

It's not. It's not glamorous. I mean, thanks to you, I work with so many travel brands and have had the honor and privilege of seeing the innards of a travel business. And I mean, it's not for the faint of heart. It looks very glamorous, but I mean, I, I think, and I was actually talking to a client, you know, yesterday who is thinking of starting a travel business and I just said, you know, I think I've worked with like over 10 travel companies at this point and, you know, it, it's, it's not all hot air balloon rides and, you know, Sunset strolls. And I mean, there it is, a very high-touch, very complicated, very customer-centric business. And marketing is literally just a small component of that. Yeah, but it's so—

it's like the most important one. Yeah. Who you filter in.

Yes. Determines your trips.

Yeah. Your day-to-day. Like, are you dealing Like, is something about your messaging, like, attracting a client that's more difficult, right? Right.

So let's get, let's get into that because I've been so fortunate since I started my business to really attract, I think, a lot of people similar to me, you know, and you, who are just kind-hearted. They have a mission, they feel connected to their purpose, or they want to feel connected to their purpose. Is I've been so fortunate to never really have had difficult or mean or whatever clients. I've just been so blessed. And I think a lot of that is because of my connection to my own values, the way that I market, you know, the way I show my dedication to my family, you know, things like that. And so one of the things that is very hot in the coaching world right now is is you have to build a movement, not just market. And this is something that Wildtrains has been doing from the get-go. And now in the coaching industry, you know, all these coaches are like, learn how to build a movement. And I mean, that's kind of the whole point. And now they're just making courses out of it. So from your perspective, like, how do you build a movement with your brand, not just content and marketing? Because there's a big difference.

Yeah. I mean, I think it again goes back to like, do you understand your values? Have you decided what the most important ones are? So again, for Wild Terrain's community connection, every woman can sit with us in the class. They, they figure these out and they have 2 or 3. And, and then are you living, breathing, eating, sleeping that? Because that's what creates the movement, right?

Yeah.

So you notice how in Wild Terrains, one of them isn't supporting women-owned businesses, even though that's like foundational. It's just, it's not the most important value. The bigger, more important value is community and connection. And our women-owned partners are part of a community and there's connection between the travelers and them. And because of the types of partners we have and the types of travelers we attract, every woman can sit with us. We have like really good diversity. After years of being in business and, and saying that that was important to us. So I think that's really where it starts is getting clear on that. A lot of people, I think, understand values, understand that people buy based on like what a brand believes in, but they have too much in that bucket. So like there was a travel company I helped a couple years ago, and when we went to look at their website, they were like, okay, well, we're socially minded and we love culinary and we love supporting women-owned businesses. Mm-hmm. And we love keeping the environment clean. And we, you know, like all, it was like all the things you could be. And really what happens when you do, when you describe your brand like that is you think you're checking all the boxes for everyone, but what you're really doing to the customer is saying, I don't know what I am. And therefore you don't know what I am. And so because you can't figure out what's most important to me, you're not gonna be loyal to me. And that's really the relationship between a customer and a brand is either one of loyalty or not. And so totally, I don't know what you believe in then, or you believe in too many things that I can't place you into this like persona and I can't decide if I wanna be friends with you or not, then you're not building a relationship.

Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I always say is marketing is a mirror. You know, if, if you feel unsure, unclear, scattered, diluted, misaligned in your marketing, you will get either no sales or clients that are a mirror of that. You know, and I see, I see so many coaches doing like, you know, these kind of, I don't know, like cheesy, sleazy, like, you know, make $1 million in a weekend. And I would be surprised if the type of woman signing up for that is like truly heart-centered, clear on her brand, like mission-driven, purpose-driven. You know, if that's the thing that gets her to buy like $50 million in a weekend, then like, I don't know, you know?

And if the same thing— Right.

It's a quick fix. So you're going to get a quick fix client who's probably going to buy, you know, a $44 course and never watch it, you know.

And then move on and buy the next 44.

Exactly. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, similarly, and I see this with so many travel brands, and I honestly, like, forget travel brands. I always use the— I was just reading a post I wrote about this imaginary place I invented called Cookie Lane, where there's like 8 cookie shops in a row. I don't know if you remember this post, but You know, there's like the shop that has like chocolates, you know, breakfast pastries, cookies, ice cream, milkshakes, and it's just like jumbled. You can't see, like, is it clean? I don't know. And then, you know, there's like the cookie shop next door that has like 4 flavors and it's all homemade, it's women-owned, and that's it.

Yeah.

And like, I can—

I love that example.

Like the, that, the second one I guarantee will do better over time.

I think— Without a doubt. Yeah. And I think this is like symptomatic because I work with all women. I think this is symptomatic of like a societal issue related to how women feel like they need to show up. And it's a lot of us try to be all the things all the time. And we know from personal experience that that causes burnout and it's not sustainable. You can't be like, you're not Martha Stewart, right? Even Martha Stewart isn't Martha Stewart all the time. If you watch the documentary, Right. And so yeah, focusing on the things that are the most important and you can be is the, is the best way to attract the right client. And something that was really hard for my group that's in class right now is realizing, oh, that means I'm gonna be saying no to some clients. I'm gonna be turning people away because one, now my values are really clear, so some of these clients are not gonna agree with them. And two, now I have kind of a standard of like, these are the types of people I wanna work with. And so if it's not an e-commerce site where anyone could just buy, you know, you're gonna be saying no to some people because they don't align with these values. And I think that's really hard for people, but you also have to trust that like, if it's a good idea and if your values resonate with some people, they're probably gonna resonate with a lot of people. You just haven't found those people yet.

I was, as you were saying that, I thought of, you know, I think for those of us who have started businesses, we have to really overcome the good girl energy. And I know that's something both of us have had to work really hard on is not trying to please all the people all the time. You know, I think of my dad used to always say, you can't, you can't please all the people all the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. And I'm sure like some famous person said that. I don't think he invented that, but you know, he used to say that all the time. And even hearing that when I was little, like when I started my business, I mean, I was, you know, in the early days when I was just trying to build up my client base, like it was so tempting. People would come to me and say, Oh, you know, I just want, you know, one session, or I just need help getting a job, or can you do my resume? You know, I started doing a lot of career coaching in the beginning, and I would say yes because A, I wanted to please people, and B, I had this energy of like, just choose me. It feels so good to be chosen. And, you know, this gets into our childhood stuff, and, you know, which is a whole other episode, but— and our attachment style. Like, I I talk a lot now in Opulence about our attachment style and how it comes up in the sales process, right? Because you will— like, I'm anxious-secure attached, and I mean, I've done so much work around healing that inside of my business. And how we do one thing is how we do everything. So now as I'm in the dating process, I've noticed, oh my gosh, like, I'm saying no, I'm not getting anxious, because I've healed it in my business. And I always say like our business is our greatest portal for healing. And the first thing women come up against is the good girl try— people pleaser, you know, trying to please everyone and you just can't. And I think going back to like your foundation, which is like if you have those 3 to 4 values, you can literally say, does saying yes to this person request align 10 out of 10 with my values? Yes, no. And if it's a no, then you almost have to step out of yourself and say no from the soul of your business, you know, which again, going back to the brand persona, it's like, what would, what would, you know, the best party host ever say?

Yeah. And that's also like a work in progress, right? I think actually developing this course I was like, oh, I should, I should also like relook at some of these things in our business now that we've been doing it for 7 years. And so I've had some shifts of like, you know, for our business, anyone can book the trip. So people do slip through the cracks and sometimes we get someone on a trip who I'm like, how did you end up here? Like, you don't seem to enjoy community connection and all the things that we love. And so So when someone behaves that way on a trip that's like unaligned with our values, and then they give harsh feedback after the trip of, I wish this was different, I wish that was different, I didn't like the trip leader, blah, blah, blah. I used to kind of like jump and react to like every person's feedback because in my mind I was like, every person's feedback is valid, which is true. But now I say to the team, I say, Okay, well, we should probably like discount this feedback by 75% because she doesn't align with our values. She actually like broke a bunch of our sort of like behavioral commitments that we ask travelers to follow on our trips. And so why would we take her feedback with equal weight as someone who's a good customer of ours? So I do think it helps to filter and I think I'm a people pleaser all the way. So it's definitely like a constant work in progress of saying, okay, well, now I'm more likely to be like, how did that person get here? Like, what attracted them? Yeah. And was there a step at some point where we could have as a team said, I don't think this is a good fit for you. Maybe a custom trip is better.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I mean, I will say having hosted retreats with Wildtrains and seeing the type of women that you guys bring, like, I mean, I've met some of the most incredible women that I'm friends with who are my clients, like, through your trips. And so the proof is in the pudding. And I think the thing that you said in the beginning is like, you're— one of your marketing strategies is like attracting the right people from the get-go, and then those people go tell everyone. because they're telling women who they know will be a good fit like they were.

Yeah.

And that just, that's the movement, you know, like that is creating a movement instead of just marketing.

Well, and the cool thing with the math of that is we did this in class. We like looked at a marketing funnel. And so if you don't know, know what a marketing funnel is, it's kind of like the stages people go through before they buy. And then after they buy, and what does that look like for each brand? And the traditional type of marketing is really focused on like the more people you pump into that funnel, the more people are gonna come out at the bottom.

Mm-hmm.

My version is like, okay, let's pump some people into that funnel and then the people who end up at the bottom are gonna do 70% of the marketing for you.

Yes.

You don't have to do anything. And then you're only doing 30% of the marketing. And really what that means is like 70% of Wildtrains travelers, like, I'm not marketing to them. Their friends are telling them about the trips. They are seeing about it, like, you know, seeing someone's post about it or their mom's talking about it or whatever. And then like, I'm not really controlling that marketing, but everything I'm doing in terms of our brand presence is helping fuel it. And so it's attracting more and more of the right people. And the cool thing about that is like, as a small women-owned business, you have to do less work if you have all that on lock.

Totally. Yeah. And I mean, you know, I know for both of us, like my whole, my brand is, you know, work less, make more, impact bigger. Like, and you know, Wildtrains is, is, is, you know, you as a business owner, I think, are aligned, you know, with that in many ways. And, you know, what, what I see with my launch method, which I never realized, but it's kind of similar, you know, The Party Method, it's like, I create these little micro offers, you know, like the Dream Clarity Challenge for like $22. I'm not doing it to make money, honestly, I'm doing it because like you, I want more women to start businesses, because it just makes the world a better place. But then what I do, and this is where people just— their launches take off, is everybody gets to invite their friends in and everybody gets to share that they're in this challenge. And I've gamified it, so they're getting points. And if they win, they get, you know, free— all these free things from me. And it's kind of the same idea. Like, I think so many women—

Mm-hmm.

Beginning and mid-stage business, they're like, I have such a small following, like no one's gonna buy from me. And I think, I hope people are hearing from both you and me, like you're one part of the marketing process.

Yeah.

But when you create a movement, it's like as if you're literally inviting 20 women to a table and you just give them your heart and soul and like the time of their lives and then You know, you say, if you love this, please go tell your friends. It means the world to me. And they each go tell 3 people. You know, now we're at 100 plus.

Yeah.

And it's, it's so soul-centered.

That's so important though, because it means the product has to be really strong.

And that's something that we haven't even talked about. But like, I mean, getting people to pay is one thing. But then you have to knock their socks off.

Mm-hmm.

To create what we're talking about, you have to— and my— I, I say overdeliver. I always want to overdeliver. And I think Wildtrains for sure. I mean, you exceed expectations. And I think that is— if, if your product is off, the whole thing that we've been talking about crumbles. And I think that's a part that especially in travel, is very volatile. You guys have done this so well, but, you know, I mean, weather, hotels.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, there's so many variables in your business that could disturb the, the quality, but you guys have done this so long and so well and so many times, and you have contingency plans and, you know, you're people-centered. So if something doesn't go wrong, you make it right.

Yeah.

You know, in the best way you can. And I think, like that in, in the opulence model, it's like product suite that blows people away, marketing, and embodied energy, which is like what we're, you know, a living embodiment of your brand that creates a movement. Like, but you really have to have all 3 of those. Mm-hmm.

In the class, a section of it is actually, so one of the things I think people get wrong with marketing is they start to market, they maybe have all the pieces right, like they're, content's great, their values are aligned, you know, they're selling something that people want. And so they start marketing, but the rest of their funnel, what we're talking about, the product, the customer service, their website, their email capture, all of those pieces that are a part of your funnel have leaks in them.

Mm-hmm.

And so one of the things, one of the tasks we did in class is I had everyone work backwards. So before you can start any marketing, let's work backwards. Is your, is your post-product experience good? You know, like do you have someone who's reaching out to see how it went? Do you, you know, are people able to easily refer friends? Is the product strong? Is it what you promised to deliver? Are you overdelivering? Before that, is your customer service friendly? The basics. Are people responding? You know, like, do you respond to people in 24 hours? Are you waiting a week? And if you're not doing those things, you have leaks in your funnel.

Mm-hmm.

And so the more people you drive in with marketing, the more people are leaking out. And so really what it's called is like bottom-up funnel optimization. So you go from the bottom up, you patch all the leaks, and then you start to market. And also that keeps you from spinning your wheels because if you find 20 clients who are great and all the leaks are fixed, You know, at the end you're probably gonna get 10 who've bought. But if you have a bunch of leaks and you mind 20 clients, maybe only 2 end up at the bottom. So I think that's another thing. It's, it's not rocket science. It's just a lot of us don't take— we're in a hurry and we're trying to do all the things and we think we should be doing all the things. And so we don't take time to make sure like the basics and the foundational elements are.

really strong. Mm-hmm.

So like we talked about with my team, I would say 9 times outta 10 when someone emails us and they're like, I'm about to book a trip, I just have some questions, we respond typically within 1 to 2 hours. We're fast. Like sometimes it's 1 minute and people are like, this is kind of creepy. Did you see my email? Like we're really fast and the team is trained to respond fast. Yeah. 9 times out of 10, that person comes back and says, thanks so much for answering all my questions. I was between you and another company, but you guys responded so fast that I'm gonna put my money down now. And literally just us being responsive. Yes. Is like half the battle. It's wild.

It's really— I'm so glad. I'm so glad you brought that up. And I actually didn't know that you did that in your course, but I'm so glad you do that because is I think I'm, I think both of us, because we had, you know, I don't wanna call it training, but we were in startup environments where we had to think of all these little things, you know, like that's, I think that's why I built my business like this cuz I operationalized two companies. So I think like that, but I think a lot of people miss these little like nooks and crannies and honestly like, You know, I, I think that it really does make the difference between a sale and someone moving to the next person. And, you know, like an example in, in my business is a lot of coaches will say like, don't do sales calls. If someone's investing, you know, multiple thousands, 5 figures with me, like you better believe I'm gonna get on a call with them. And you know what, if they want a second call, I'm happy to do that. Right. And like, I don't really ever want a, that's not possible for WildTrains. You're scaled out. But I guarantee that if someone, you know, you guys ask for calls and feedback at the end of a trip, right?

Yeah. And I would say maybe like 10%, most people are just booking.

They don't— Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The 10% are like, are emailing us and saying, hey, I have questions. We say, do you want a phone call or not? We ask.

Yeah.

And I, I have a team that handles it, but I hop in and get on those calls. Because I think it's an asset to get on the phone with someone. I do too. And hear, like, I hear the most amazing stories. Like, I just lost my husband. I'm trying to find a new community that's like, didn't know me before. And like, I need a new space. I think traveling will be very healing. And I'm having like a real, you know, vulnerable conversation with this person. I now know her name. She, she knows my voice. Mm-hmm. I'm getting campaign ideas from the client.

I was just gonna say, yeah.

So it's, I think that's something people do too, is they start to outsource.

So early.

Yeah.

They outsource the connection. Like when I see people, you know, you can book a, a sale, a quote sales call with my team. I'm like, and I, I get for some businesses that's just simply not possible, but you know, I also believe that you can build a business where that is possible. You know, the founder of Robe Curls, Emily, who's— she's coming on the podcast. She does calls with girls who can't figure out how to use her robe curl products.

Yeah.

And she's like, those calls are the highlight of my week. And not a lot of people book them, but like the girls that do, I get campaign ideas, I get content ideas, I get quotes, They, my sales, I give them a coupon code and they use it like crazy. I mean, it's just like a win-win-win. And this is going back to kind of where we started, like connection-based, human-based, emotion-forward business, I believe is the, I mean, it has never not been, but I believe it's the future and the, the critical piece of marketing and, and businesses that people need to lean into. Especially with AI and all that stuff. Like people are outsourcing everything. The, the most, the most heart-centered thing you can do is like be in connection with your buyers and your clients and it will serve you 10x than any additional sales could.

Also, like, I mean, I just went through this with my wedding planning. I was talking about this in the class cuz there's some people in that industry. You know, there's some industries where I feel like the industry does it a certain way. And so you feel like, well, everybody does it this way, so I'll do it. And in the wedding industry, I've noticed there's this tendency to— I get it, there's busy seasons for weddings, right? You know, June, July, there's lots of weddings happening. You're working weekends. You can't be on email 24/7. But in the wedding industry, what I found is there's sort of two ways people operate. One is they have an automated message that says, it's busy season, I'll get back to you in a week. And you're like, no, that's just too long, you know?

Yeah.

Or you don't get anything and then they respond to you in a week and they say, oh, so sorry, I was really busy. And honestly most of the industry operates that way. Like I had to pick vendors that operated that way, but I kept thinking, I was like, you know, if someone in the wedding industry were to hire an assistant for busy season that's like aligned with our values, not in the Philippines, you know, like local.

Yeah.

Who could field those requests and make the person feel heard in 24 hours. I think their sales would go through the roof.

Skyrocket. Skyrocket.

1,000%. And so like that would solve the like, I'm busy, I can't answer email. But also if you could find the space every day, 20 minutes, 30 minutes to answer your own emails, your sales would also skyrocket. It's not rocket science.

No.

And a lot of times people in weddings are paying thousands and thousands of dollars. And so, So the idea that like an email goes unanswered and this person might be paying you $10,000 for florals, like I just, it, it really— I agree.

I don't know. I agree. And it's such an easy fix, you know, it's such an easy fix. And I, I think when I was working in private schools, that was the, like, we were the same. I mean, the parents would always comment like, I don't know, you, your team like must not sleep because you respond so fast. And I was like, 'cause our number one priority is being in communication with our customers. Yeah.

And it doesn't have to be that you don't sleep, right? It can just be—

No, no. I mean, yeah. Like we were just answering the same day.

Exactly. That's what I mean. Like my team's been on customer service all day. They're checking in the morning and they're checking—

They're doing things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

I think it's honestly the reason that your brands, both of them have been so successful is just because of the way you think and the way you approach. And it's just so human first. And I think, you know, heading into 2025, that's gonna be more important than ever. And it's, I'm teaching women this way in both of my programs. Like I will never teach anyone to scale so fast that they're losing the heart and soul of their business, which is the people that are buying.

Yeah.

It just won't serve them in the long run. Maybe short term, but we want lifelong businesses, you know? Yeah.

It's not scalable.

Yeah. So we're, we're coming round the bend here to the end. I just wanna ask one last question cuz, you know, I actually forgot that you were a math major, but how do you use data in marketing? Just kind of give us an overview of like, how could people listening leverage data in their marketing?

Yeah, this is my class next week, um, and I haven't finished the slides for it yet, but, um, the truth is, is I don't— I, I like use it with a grain of salt, if that makes sense. I'm not married to it. Uh, I am paying attention to metrics that are easily at my like disposal. So on Instagram, you know, likes, shares, engagement, comments. But I'm also not, you know, like, I know there's an algorithm and I know timing matters. And so I'm not too hard on myself if a post that I'm like, wait, I feel like that should have gotten more engagement. I don't like kill myself over it and change my strategy.

Yeah.

So I feel like I use data in a way that is very human, approachable. I'm more looking for the answer to the question, did this resonate with my audience? Is like the question I'm always asking. And sometimes I see that in our bookings, you know, oh, I did a post on Japan and now that Japan trip sold out, right? Or like, I, you know, I talked about this in email today and this did really well. Sometimes it's direct. Um, And sometimes it's like an indirect thing, but I'm very plugged into the numbers of my business. Like I look at the finances every week.

Yeah.

So I know, you know, like how we're doing this December versus last December versus 2022. I'm looking at those numbers. But again, I try not to like be married to it. Sometimes you have a lower month. And then the next month will be higher. And it's just, that's the nature of things.

Yeah, yeah, I agree completely. And I think I honestly don't pay that much attention to Instagram metrics unless it's, ooh, a lot of people commented or a lot of people shared this. Then I'm like, okay, something about that. And 9 times outta 10, it's the post that I wrote while I was walking and you know, it was just me with no makeup on walking down the street. Again, people want to see that you're human. And so a lot of times that's what I find. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to share more. That's just like kind of raw and off the cuff versus like perfectly polished pictures.

Totally. Totally. And also that shifts over time. So like what's interesting to people—

It does shift.

Will change in 3 years and the channels we're on will be different. And so, you know, I always think about that. Like when I launched Wild Terrain, I was using Instagram, but you could only post in feed. There were no reels. There were no stories, you know. And so that's really like—

True.

Um, so I think, yeah, I guess from a data perspective, it's like, I know that, but I— there's real things. I have to pay people, I have to pay my bills, like, I have to make sure the numbers work. Um, and I think I more just use it as like, is this resonating with my audience? How can I keep doing things that are resonating?

Right, right. And what would you say are the first steps? Like someone who's listening and they're like really resonating with what you're saying, like what are some of the fir— what's like one step that someone can take to start creating a more magnetic emotional marketing strategy for their brand or their business? Like what would be a good just first step?

Well, one, come take my class.

Yes.

I honestly think stop marketing. Like, stop. Turn it all off and go look at your, your flow from the bottom up.

Mm-hmm.

Because any, I really think, like we're saying, is there a customer service problem? Is there a response time problem? Is there a product problem? Like, those things need to be fixed before you market. And I promise you, none of you have a perfect perfect flow or funnel.

Yeah.

Like nobody does. I don't even have it. It's constantly being tweaked, right? So, and like the more customers you get, things will break in it and you have to adjust. So nobody has a perfect funnel. So like everyone should start there. Like how could you make your products better? Are people talking about it after they use it? Is your customer service like the best customer service in the industry? Those 3 things and then figure out your marketing strategy.

That's excellent advice. I love that.

That was 3 things, but it was—

Yeah, no, but that's super helpful and it gives, you know, go do that everyone. Like no matter what, even if you think everything's perfect, like I'm gonna go do that. That's such a great call to action that I think everyone can do. Lauren, it's been so amazing to have you back on the show. Thank you for your time and just sharing with us. I'm curious. I always ask people, what is the next dream that you're bringing to life that you're devoted to in your business?

Oh, um, well, so fun to be back. Thanks for having me back. I love coming on here. Um, we are working on just honestly Wild Trains is kind of like in a cruise mode where we're trying to refine our experience. So we are working on Spain, which will be a new destination in 2026. Um, but 2025 I think is going to be like no new stuff. We're just gonna make sure everything's really solid. Um, and then for Studio Womankind, I'm hoping I'll do another live course in January, and then I'm probably gonna like see what feels good after that. I'm not sure I'll do a third one, but, uh, Yeah, that's, that's what, that's what's next.

I love that. And you answered this last episode, but maybe it's shifted. What does prosperity mean to you now?

I think time, honestly, right now. So it's something I'm trying to think through is how can I use my time in a better way? And so there's a lot of ways to, I think, fix that in my current I'm really involved in our business. It's not that I wanna step away, but I wanna make sure that people are empowered to do things without my input, uh, which is kind of a new phase.

Yeah, that is the next phase. I love it.

I love it.

Well, we will link Magnetic Marketing. We'll link Wild Terrains. We will link your Instagram so people can follow you and see what all both of your businesses are up to, because I know you guys are just getting started. And I just adore you. You're an incredible leader, an incredible friend. I'm so grateful for you. And thank you again for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me. It was so fun.

Thank you for tuning in to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I am so grateful for your presence and for being a part of this community. Feel free to DM me @itsclairesellers on Instagram. I would love to connect with you and hear what resonated with you in this episode. Forget to subscribe to the show, and if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave a 5-star review. Your feedback means the world to me and helps me reach more incredible women just like you. And because I love to spoil you, just DM me a screenshot of your review on Instagram, and I'll send you my free Prosperity Activation Course as a thank you. It's my way of investing in you and your dreams.

Thank you.