Ep. 28: How to Harness the Power of Your Nervous System with Jamie Lugo

Nervous system work is key to building a business that is sustainable, joyful, and like truly aligned because you're not trying to push through. You're building safety and capacity, not only in your body, but in what you have the ability to hold as far as like the scale of your business.

Welcome to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I'm Claire Sellers, a business mentor and coach who is absolutely obsessed with helping you create the business of your dreams and your most prosperous life. Life. Tune in for inspiring conversations with extraordinary women that will propel you towards becoming the Prosperous Woman. Welcome everybody. I am so, so beyond excited to introduce you to my incredible friend, my client, Jamie Lugo. Welcome to the Prosperous Woman Show. Thank you.

Woohoo! I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. Um, invitation received, and I'm here with just so much gratitude. So happy to be here.

Yay! Well, I'm so excited to just introduce you to my community. Jamie is an incredible trauma-informed embodiment coach, and she has been doing this work for a very, very long time in many different capacities, which we're gonna get into.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but when I wanted to bring in the nervous system into the conversation around business, because I truly believe that it is one of the keys to your success, Jamie was the absolute first person I thought of as the expert and go-to on the topic. So Jamie, I'm so excited to just get into this and to share your wisdom and to share just all of the work that you've done around the nervous system, and you've seen miracles happen in your own life and in your clients' lives around nervous system work. So I'm just really excited to, to get into it today. And just to begin, you know, I, I always like to tell people how I meet people because I think it's interesting. Jamie and I actually went to the same coaching program. We are, um, Co-Active Coaches, and we met in that program. And I just remember having this, like, kinship to you pretty immediately, and that was almost 10 10 years ago. We've kept in touch ever since.

Yeah. We were like besties right away.

Yeah.

It was interesting.

And then have followed and supported each other's journeys. And then last year, Jamie came into Opulence, my mastermind, and it was just such a gift to support you as you really began to scale your business even further. So before we get into the work that you're doing, I'd love you to just share very briefly, like, what was your experience inside of Opulence for people who might be curious?

Well, first of all, Claire, you are a powerhouse coach and just a badass biz babe. I, you know, have been in this business for a while, but I've never been business-minded. And so when I knew that I wanted to take my business to a new level, I knew that you were the person that was going to help me do that. And so hopping into Opulence was, you know, a big step for me and it really helped me to not only learn like how to do business and learn about sales and marketing, but it also helped me learn like that it happens in a group, it happens in community, it happens with one-on-one work. Like you were able to see so many different aspects of my business that I was not able to see. So it, it was just such a profound experience. Um, not only for me as a person, but also for who I got to be in my business and where my business has gone, um, just in the past year. So thank you for that.

You're so welcome. And I'm glad you brought up the community aspect because I think, I think you experienced this at various points, you know, in our connection over the last almost 10 years. And I know I've experienced this building a business can be quite lonely.

Totally.

And one of the reasons I'm so passionate about the Opulence Mastermind, which is designed to help you scale so that you can work less, make more, and impact bigger is because I truly think that building a business is not a solo sport and it can be so isolating. And this actually ties perfectly into the nervous system. We were just saying before we started recording, like we need other people to regulate. You know, and we need to be in community with, especially I think other women in the process of expansion. It's so difficult to do this on your own because you probably will collapse. And so that's one of the things I think, you know, that Opulence creates is a very intimate group where women are on the same path. We're trying, you know, scaling, figuring out the backend of the business, figuring out how to bring more people into your world so that you can be more present in your life, so that you can be more regulated in your— Mm-hmm. Them. So it all connects.

Yeah. I mean, the community aspect is huge that, you know, learning how to work less and make more is a, is a huge aspect of the program. And, you know, just speaking to the community aspect and its relationship to nervous system, like, as a coach, I do a lot of my work alone. You know, a lot of the time entrepreneurship is being alone. And, you know, if you think back, like back in the day, you know, hundreds and thousands and millions of years ago, like if a human being was alone, that meant death. Like, and so your nervous system remembers that.

Mm-hmm.

Like being alone is not safe. You have, you must be in community in order to survive. Community is essential for survival. Being able to be in a group of people that are not only like-minded, but also can see you and support you in all of your fluctuations and all of the iterations of who you are, all of the iterations of your business not only means survival for you, but it also means survival for your business. It's in so many ways.

I got chills when you said that. It's true, like, being alone meant death.

Like, yeah. And like, our bodies don't forget that, right? That we need people, you know, we need each other.

A perfect segue, like I know everyone knows what the nervous system is on a, I guess, logistic level, but can you kind of break it down in simple terms? What is the nervous system? Why does it matter in everyday?

Let's start. Yeah. So most of the time when people are talking about the nervous system, you're talking about the autonomic nervous system, which is essentially the brain and all of the nerve endings in the brain, the nerve endings that are in the body, and the spine, the spinal cord. Okay. And it is the foundation for how our body functions, how we are in our body, how we touch, how we smell, how we taste, how we feel, everything. It influences everything. It influences, like we were talking about, a lot of how we feel safe in our bodies, how connected we feel in our relationships, how confidently we can move through life. You know, most people think of it in terms of like stress or relaxation. Like my nervous system, you're only aware of your nervous system when you are stressed out or when you're able to relax, but your nervous system is constantly working. It has this thing called neuroception, which basically means that it's constantly scanning your surroundings every millisecond, looking for safety, danger, life-threatening, safety, danger, life-threatening, and then creating interpretations based on what it sees, experiences, smells, hears, feels, all of the above. So I like to think of it as like the command center of our lives. And so, you know, it dictates not only how we feel, but it also dictates all of our thoughts. It dictates all of our behaviors. You know, what's happening in our bodies dictates like, okay, what do I need to do in order to feel safe or get to safety, you know, because the nervous system is always asking the question, am I safe? And how do I need to be to be in safety? What do I need to do? And, you know, the nervous system, like I was saying, is like the key to so many things because it does also determine like how all of our other systems function, our immune system, our vestibular system, our digestive system. Mm-hmm. Our endocrine system, our metabolic systems, like you name it, the nervous system is like the command center of everything. So if our nervous system is not in like kind of optimal kind of energetic homeostasis, what it's gonna do is pull from all the other systems in our life and pull energy from all the other systems in our life. So say it's like, okay, I need you immune system, I need a little energy from you. So it's gonna pull So then the immune system stops functioning, right? The cardiovascular system can stop functioning optimally when we are using so much energy to get our nervous system in a state of regulation. So that's why the nervous system like determines everything is because it's really the command center and in charge of everything that we do.

Okay. I'm like mind blown. I don't know why that just blew my mind, but I just was like, oh my God, it all makes so much sense. Like that's, you know, You're stressed, you get sick when everything is connected. And this is a whole other episode, but then we get into Western medicine putting Band-Aids on ailments and symptoms when the true root is often nervous system.

Dysregulation or just some synapses that haven't really been able to fire or wire together some sort of, you know, nerve, some connection on nerve ending connection that hasn't really been made. So a lot of the work that I do, I'm training to be an NSI, nervous neurosomatic intelligence practitioner. A lot of the work that we do is not only based on regulation, but it's also about rehabilitating nerve endings that are not functioning optimally. Like for me, one of those is like the vestibular system. Like I get dizzy really easy. I get vertigo, you know, from time to time. I get this thing called vestibular neuritis and like, What it really comes down to is that my vestibular nerve is just not functioning optimally. The root of that could be many different things, but if you can rehab it and you can train it, then you can, it's kind of like a tree. Like I always think about this in gardening. If there's a dead branch on a leaf, that tree is gonna use all of its energy to repair the dead branch, right? And so the nervous system, when something's not functioning properly, there's going to be some sort dysfunction happening in the body because it's using energy for something else. It compensates. It's pretty wild.

It's so fascinating. And I wrote down a few things that I just want to touch on. Like, before we even— well, actually, the first thing I thought is, or wanted to point out, is that you said the nervous system determines our thoughts.

Mm-hmm.

So this is interesting because, you know, in so many coaching frameworks they teach, and I talk about this a lot too, you know, your thoughts create your beliefs and your beliefs create your actions or inactions and your actions or inactions create your results. You know, this is, this is like a very basic coaching framework, but what's missing from that is the nervous nervous system, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Where does that fit in? And isn't that a huge miss in the formula?

Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of people are just discovering the nervous system. It's a big buzzword right now and just discovering really a lot of how it operates and what it really has to do with the way that we show up in the world. Right. And so what happens is that generally, so you have this nervous system and then what happens is you're in the world and you get some sort of stimulus. Right. So something happens. We'll call that stimulus like an input, something that your system processes. And then you have the interpretation that goes in. It's like, okay, so what does this mean? And based on that meaning, you're going to produce thoughts and behaviors, okay? And beliefs. So your thoughts and beliefs are very inextricably tied, but that would be the output.

Mm-hmm.

So a lot of mindset work right now is just really working with the output. The behavior, right? Oh, okay. So if you wanna change the behavior, like you just go change the behavior and then just do that over and over and, you know, your mind will change eventually. And sometimes it does work in the reverse that way, but it's really not common that that is the most effective way to do things. If we want to, because here's the thing, we can change our thoughts, but if our nervous system is not, you know, on board with it. Let's just say like, you know, I have a belief or a thought like, oh, water slides are scary. Okay. I can't just change my belief to be like, okay, water slides aren't scary. Look, somebody just went down there. Look, somebody else is doing that. Whatever. I know this is like such a weird thing. And then just push my body onto it because my nervous system is still going to have a response. So I can't talk my way into the safety. I have to show, because this is part of the misconceptions of the— one of the misconceptions about nervous system work is that you can think your way into a nervous system response. If I want to change the way that I'm thinking, I need to change the way my body feels because the language of the nervous system is the body. And so I can't just say, okay, no, it's totally safe. Look at all the people going. Look at all the people going. Look at all the people going down. Look, there they go again. And then your body is just like, no, because it's going to do what it knows to do based on past experience. So your nervous system has been created from the day you were born, from when you were in the womb.

And past lifetimes not to open another can of worms, but you know.

Yeah, I believe in that. I, you know, I think that there is a lot of conditioning in there that is wired, right? It's really the wiring. And so if we just change our thoughts, we don't always change the wiring 'cause the wiring exists. And so when we have a physiological response in the body, It happens in the, what we call in like the old brain, which is the base of the, the base of the brain, like at the base of your neck. And it means that this is the place that is like all subconscious. This is where all of your, you know, actions and deep beliefs are gonna come from.

Mm-hmm.

We're changing our thoughts in our pre, in our prefrontal cortex in the front of our brain, in our new brain. So if those two areas aren't speaking to each other and they're not in congruence, old brain is always going to win. So you can affirm all you want, right?

Right.

But if your body is not in belief of the affirmation based on subconscious patterning or wiring that's already happening in the nervous system, then The old brain wins. The old brain always wins.

And this is why, you know, we— I know, I mean, and I know you've seen this. I've seen so many people who, you know, they're doing the affirmations, they're going to yoga, they're, you know, doing the sound baths, like they're doing all the things and they keep staying in the same stuck, like, same place. I see this happening a lot around money.

So much. Yes.

Around money and with pain in the body.

Yeah, 100%. And those two things are outputs. Those two things are behavioral, you know, like how you are with money. It's a relationship to money, you know, how the relationship to the body— your body is saying something to you when you're in pain. That's your body sending you a message, right? And You know, I know a lot of people have had success with affirmations. I personally like affirmations a lot, but here's, here's the catch. If your nervous system is not in regulation, affirmations won't work because you don't have access to the learning brain or the new brain if you're in dysregulation. So if you're in dysregulation, which means like fight, flight, freeze, fawn, flop, any one of those kind of like responses, you're not going to be able to create a new neural pathway.

And that's the thing. So the neural pathway piece, 'cause I'm so grateful that we're having this conversation. I'm like, oh my God. It's such, it must be so frustrating for people who don't have this information.

Yeah.

So let's kind of, 'cause I wanna make sure people understand, and this, we were gonna talk about misconceptions, but how do people know? 'Cause I think this is important because a lot of people, I think, believe that they are regulated and they're not. So like, how do you know where you are?

Yeah, I mean, this is where awareness and practiced awareness is really, really important. And it's not just about like how I feel, it's about what is my capacity for life right now? And one of the best ways to, for me, is just to create a somatic awareness because our nervous system talks to us through our body. The language of the nervous system is the body. So chronic, tightness in the jaw, chronic neck pain, chronic tightness in the abdomen, right? Starting to notice like, okay, whenever I'm around that person, my stomach really drops.

Mm-hmm.

What is that about, right? So creating that awareness in your body, starting to understand that your body is always sending you a message is really, really important because then you can start to tune in to, okay, am I in a fight mode? Am I freezing up? And so what a lot of awareness that will happen in your body, or what I should say is a lot of ways that you can learn about this is to really learn about the different states of the nervous system and to learn what it's like to be in flight mode.

Yeah.

Right.

And I'm gonna ask, can you talk, can you take us through those? 'Cause I think I know, I don't know.

So my like favorite analogy, just 'cause I like to think about things, is basically like an impala getting chased by a lion in like, in the savanna. Okay. Like you're in Africa, you're watching this happen, right? And so, lion's gonna chase the impala. Impala has a split-second moment. Usually what happens is freeze. You stop, you look around, and you decide, am I gonna run? Am I gonna fight back? Am I going to completely collapse? Usually what happens is they start to run. Okay? So you get the energy from your nervous system, all this adrenaline, everything starts to build up in your body, and then you start to run. What that would look like for a human being would be running away from a conversation or chasing after the next best thing. Like, all I need to do is just get from one thing to the next thing, and then I just need to get the next thing, and then I just need to get to the next thing. The next thing is fight. Like, are you gonna fight back, right? Are you the type of person that when you were in an argument, are you gonna fight back? And does that look like always looking for a problem, always looking for conflict? Or always, you know, assuming that people are thinking the worst of you and you having to always stand up for yourself, being really aggressive, feeling that you are— there's this sense of urgency in your life. The other thing is like that, that freeze mode. Freeze is really congruent with a lot of procrastinators. I procrastinate a lot. It's an equal amount of flee, like that, that kind of running, that flight, and flop. Mm-hmm. Where you're just like, okay, I'm gonna collapse. And so a lot of times freeze really helps you out because it pauses you and you're like, okay, I need to like assess. But what gets really tiring about that is you're in equal parts flight and equal parts flop and collapse, and then you're just staying in place. And so what this looks like as for somebody is like, oh, I gotta, you know, send a text back and I am, I'm just gonna do it later. Or, oh, I have to do that thing with, respond to that email, but I'm just gonna organize the kitchen drawer instead. Or like, I need to like, oh, I said I was gonna go to the gym, but I just, you know, I really need to just like organize my closet. You know, stuff like that where it's just like you, you feel like you're confused, you're in indecision. It's kind of this push, push, pull back and forth. Fawn is an interesting one because it's not like a physiological response. It's more of like a behavioral thing that we do to find safety. So like, are you the one who is like, "Are you mad at me? How do you get, you know, how can I make this person not mad at me?" Or are you the peacekeeper? Or are you always, you know, if somebody says, you know, "We're going out to eat, what do you wanna eat?" Are you like, "I don't care, I'll eat anything." But you have also really strong opinions about what you're gonna eat, but you just don't wanna rock the boat, you know? Or are you this flop, you know, which I have, you know, a lot of experience in flop, which is kind of like disassociation, shutdown. Like overwhelm where you're just like, oh my God, I might as well just quit. I'm never gonna do this again, right? And so having that awareness of like, what is my go-to nervous system response? And with Preston and Alexi, who are my, one of, some of my coaches, we do this thing called Rondori, which is essentially this somatic practice where you go in the middle of the room and You stand in the middle of the room and then you start getting just like attacked on all sides. Like people come in and start like attacking you, like not really attacking you, but like hitting you on the shoulder and people are coming from all angles and they're making noises. And in that you really start to learn, okay, what does my nervous system usually do? Am I gonna run away? Am I gonna fight back? Am I just gonna freeze? Am I just gonna try and like make sure nobody touches me? Am I just gonna shut down and just be like, I give up, I don't wanna do this at all, I'm walking outta the room. And so it's really good to know like, what is it that my nervous system usually does when I get stressed out? And so that's how you can start to attune to it. And then also like, what does it feel like in my body when that's happening? Because before logically you start to realize what's happening, that even under the context of the layers of nervous system response, your body tells you. You get tingly fingers, you get a pit in your stomach, you get a lump in your throat, you get really dizzy. You get fidgety.

Sweaty.

Sweaty, yeah. All the things. So knowing what it's like in your body when you are, you know, having in the awareness, you know, I've learned a lot from Sarah Baldwin. She always says context is such a huge part of nervous system safety. So learning about the nervous system has been so empowering for me just to know, oh, okay, I'm in a response and it's actually not bad. Here's how I attune to it. You know, it's not like I'm trying to get out of it. I'm just saying, oh, this is a normal thing. This is a normal thing that's happening and this is what I do, right? How can I create safety within that so that it doesn't feel like an impending threat?

It's so interesting as you're excri— and we'll link Preston and Alexi in the show notes.

Yes.

They— they're— I've had— I think you're the third client that's worked with them in their Bridge program, and it just sounds incredible. I hope to do it one day, but I know Preston through Austin and just think that they're amazing. So we'll link them because they really are a resource. But, you know, what did you call it? Rundori.

Rundori is this thing that— that, yeah, that they teach, and it really is just like a profound somatic experience and a, you get schooled on what your nervous system does and your go-to nervous system response.

And identifier.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we—

But you can also just like, you know, any day, anytime something stressful happens, just be like, oh, okay, am I trying to run? Am I feeling confused and conflicted? Am I trying to fight about this? Am I getting aggressive or am I just wanting to quit? Right? Am I just wanting to flop? So just knowing that about yourself is really, really helpful.

So once, you know, we all— we always say awareness is the first step. So people listening, perhaps they're able to identify what their go-to is. Perhaps they need to do some more, you know, digging into that. Once you've identified, like, okay, this is this is where I meet myself in a nervous system response, like then what? Mm-hmm.

Well, this is where I kind of like wanna talk about like some misconceptions about the nervous system because regulation is a really big thing right now and being in regulation and a lot of people associate that with calming down.

Like breathing.

And so breathing, like just do something to calm yourself down. And, you know, I think that really started because we have the most resources when we are in a calm and regulated state. And we don't want to be in a calm, regulated state all the time. Like imagine you are an impala, right? Being chased by a lion. You're a human being being chased by a lion. And you're like, "No, dude, I'm just gonna meditate." Like, bad choice. Like, it's a bad— like, no, you can't just sit down and meditate. You gotta get your ass up and run. You've gotta be able to get into that dysregulation. So it's— dysregulation is not bad. It's a healthy thing. We need dysregulation, okay? The problem that happens is that when we try to fix our dysregulation, or be like, "Oh my God, I'm so dysregulated. I need to just like get back." It actually creates more dysregulation because it sends a threat-like symbol to your nervous system being like, "Oh my God, you're not okay. You're trying to fix something. Let's call on some of our responses to fix it," right? We have to fix it. So it can elicit a bigger response in the nervous system. So I know this is like really hard to kind of like wrap our head around, but when you feel like you are in, disregulation or you're feeling activated, the most important thing is to just really attune to what is happening. Okay? And so what that can look like is like, where do I feel it in the body, right? When I'm having this worm, if this part of me had a voice, what would it be saying, right? Because again, that's our nervous system talking, creating our thoughts. How does it want to move? Like, do I need to go for a run? Do I need to lay down? Do I need to move some energy? And like I said, that attunement, like, what do I need right now in this moment to allow me to ride this wave? So instead of being like, okay, I'm just gonna like try to feel better so that I can do something, it's just allowing space for that to happen before, you know, before you go into any, big choices or business decisions or, you know, anything like that so that you're actually just attuning. Because I like to think of the nervous system sometimes as like, it's so related to the inner child. And I know you've done a lot of inner child work, but like, let's just say like my 3-and-a-half-year-old daughter is having like a complete meltdown. I can't sit there and be like, okay, so here's what we're gonna do. We're going to— here's what's happening. You know what, you can have ice cream later, or here's a stuffy and da da da. You know, I can't talk her out of a physical response, right? And so what I do as the parent is I just attune to her. I show up on a physical level. I'm with her. And in a sense, when we're in dysregulation, that's what we're doing with ourselves is to just say, ooh, I'm feeling this thing. I'm noticing it and I am still safe. I'm gonna look around. I'm gonna see that I have access to food. I have access to water. I'm not actually getting chased by a lion. Like, I, I'm going to send a signal of safety to my body so that it can give— so that it has space to move through this dysregulation. The problem is that a lot of us get stuck in dysregulation. We get stuck in that activation. And so the key to all these regulating tools that you're seeing everywhere on the internet is not that we can— so that we can be regulated all the time, it's so that we can modulate, so that we can move in and out of these states of dysregulation and regulation so that we don't get stuck anywhere.

Why do we get stuck?

Your nervous system sees it as a threat. And thinks that it needs to be in that response.

And so unless we almost, I would call it manually regulate, we will stay in dysregulation.

You can, yeah, yeah, for sure. A lot of times, you know, I just know for me, like when I am in like a flight response, I think the best way to get out of it is to just keep doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, checking things off my to-do list. But what actually happens is that keeps me in that response because then my body sees more things to do. For me, that response is energy. And so when I see myself in a flight response, I do what I need to do to move that energy. So I go for a walk, I do some jumping jacks, I do some squats, I shake it out, I make some sounds.

Mm-hmm.

And this is all body stuff that allows your nervous system to say, "Oh, okay, like, we're cool." Safe. I'm safe. Yeah, because it really is about safety. I'm not gonna die. And so a lot of times when we get stuck in a state of dysregulation, it's because we don't have that perceived safety.

Do you think that that's a primal thing? The sense of safety?

I think it can be a learned thing in your response, in your nervous system, but I think it can also be environmental.

Yeah.

Like we live in a world that has so much stimulus coming at us, constant stimulus. Like, I mean, if you just think of social media, the amount of things that we are ingesting you know, on a daily basis is, it is overwhelming to the system. And so I think a lot of it can be just how, you know, your nervous system is wired, you know, which sometimes we get stuck in a response because of a traumatic experience. You know, that would be like a chronic, you know, chronic PTSD or a chronic traumatic response. Sometimes it could be like an event, like a traumatic brain injury or an injury that happened that really, damages nerve endings, you know, that can cause you to stay stuck in a response. But it can also be the environment, the environmental factors that you're in, you know, the, the amount of input that you're receiving that really impacts the way that you are able to be in your body and be in this world.

Pardon the interruption. If you are a six-figure entrepreneur and you're ready to scale to multi-six figures with more ease, more clarity, and most importantly, more soul, I want to personally invite you to join the Opulence Mastermind. This is my signature highest level space for women who are done with burnout and they're ready to scale their business in a way that actually feels good. Inside this mastermind, we will streamline your product suite so that it has the capacity to scale to 7 figures. We will refine your messaging so that you are attracting dream clients on repeat. And you will master epic 5-figure launches and learn to love the launch process. This will unlock consistent $10K to $50K months on repeat, all while working less. If this sounds too good to be true, it's not. My clients and I are living proof. So if you are ready to become the opulent woman, the one in your industry with a business that is magnetic, scalable, and soul-aligned, pop on over to my bio on Instagram, @itsclairesellers, and click the Apply to Opulence button in my links, or we are linking it in the show notes. There are only a few spaces left, and I think your name might be on one of them. I've experienced that firsthand multiple times where I haven't felt unsafe, and then my mind created the story around why I didn't feel safe. But if I look back, it was actually— it started in the body, and then it went to the mind, and then it became a belief.

And it was just this— Yeah. And like, what a brilliant thing that we do, that our, that our minds do, you know? They help you get out of your body and into your head. And that's also what happens in like Flop, you know? If you ever see like —taking it back to the savanna and if you ever see the impala actually get caught, it flops. And, what is happening in that nervous system is that your nervous system is saying, "I care about you so much that I'm going to shut down all functioning so you don't have to feel what you're about to feel." It's a protection. It's a protection. Every state of the nervous system is a protective mechanism. And so that's why it's always asking, am I safe? You know, if I'm not safe, I'm gonna go into protection mode. That's why we get stuck in dysregulation 'cause we think that we're not safe and we need to keep on that kind of like protective layer. And so that flop or that kind of shutting down body, you know, we can call that dissociation, we can call that out-of-body experience, but we can also call that overthinking, overanalyzing, you know, trying to outthink the way that our body feels because that's the safest thing that we did it once before. Our nervous system says, oh, that worked for us before when we overthought when we were younger, so let's do that again. Do that again. Let's do that again. It always pulls from like the thing that works the earliest. And so that's why repatterning is hard. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant.

And so, you know, in my, My portal into nervous system work has always been through the inner child.

Yeah.

And that— because that's more tangible. What you're talking about, though, it feels so scientific.

Yeah, it is.

But it started from— it's like you said with your daughter. I can imagine her. She's so cute. You can't reason. You can't talk yourself out of a tantrum.

No, no. Yeah.

It's insane that that's what's —so many of us are doing every single day. And then we wonder, why are we exhausted? Why are we autoimmune? Why are we hair falling out?

Having digestive issues.

Digestive issues and skin, all the things.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I really love to think of it— think of my nervous system as my inner child because that helps me just attune to it and understand what attunement is and just, OK, I'm attuning. What do you need? Yeah, you're gonna— you need to move energy, you need to go take a nap, you need to move slowly, right? How can I help you do that?

Yeah, I remember when I was first starting my business and the first coach I ever worked with, Tracy, um, who I feel like I mentioned on every episode, she's a Co-Active coach as well, but I don't think whoever— she was never in New York, so I don't think you met her. Her. But before I started my business and I was working in New York, I was, I mean, in constant fight-flight, just constant. I had to be because the pressure was so high, the stakes felt so high. And I remember for months, the thing that Tracy and I worked on was, "What do I need right now?" It was that. Mm-hmm. Question, like, just over and over and over again. And I don't think I would have had the capacity to build my business had we not spent months doing inner child. What do you need right now? I'm here. I'm safe. Months of that.

It's, you know, that kind of speaks to your, you know, question that you asked earlier is like, why do we get stuck? In that? Well, one, you know, fight or flight works in New York.

Yeah.

That works. So being stuck in it—

It really does.

Being stuck in it determines survival in a lot of ways. And so that's really like, you know, something to think about that's environmental. And then the other thing is, you know, we get stuck in it because we're not asking ourselves, what do I need? We're not attuning to what we need. We're not asking those questions that you asked yourself. Like, what do I need right now? Probably to pee. Or like have a drink of water. Like, it's simple things like that. Simple things like that where like, I always think like some of my regulating tools that I use on a daily basis, which are like the easiest things is like drink water, pee when I gotta pee. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm always holding my pee. I always get like that. And it's just like, "Oh, I just gotta do one more thing and then I'll—" That is one of the fastest ways to regulate your nervous system because then your body is like, "Oh, we don't need to be in urgency. We thought we had to hold our pee because something dangerous was happening." Right. Like, we could just, "Oh, we can just pee." And then like, "Oh, okay, we're okay." Your body's like, "Oh, cool. Oh yeah, and there's water around and there's food around. So okay, we got that." Good. Okay, we're good, right? Yeah.

And so— I totally forgot that I did this, but I remember Tracy asked me, I had 5 calendar invites a day, 5 minutes each, and it said, what do I need right now?

Yeah.

Because you forget to even ask yourself that.

And that's the, and that's the important thing. And this is, this is kind of the hard part also about nervous system work is that you can't just like, go to a weekend retreat and then think you have a regulated nervous system. You can't just do the sound bath and think you have a regulated nervous system. It happens in the consistency, right? So doing what I do in my practice is just all of my regulating drills. I do them when I'm regulated, when I'm not, when I'm dysregulated. I do them all the time because that consistency is— Yeah. Is opening my window of tolerance, expanding my window of tolerance, and lifting my baseline of what regulation is so that when dysregulating things happen, I have more of a capacity to handle that. Right. So it's in the consistency, the, you know, 5 to 10 calendar invites a day of just do a 30-second thing. What do I need? Body scan. What do I need? Body scan. How am I feeling? Like, oh, I'm really tight in my shoulders. Like, how can I just like not make that wrong and attune to it. Usually people are like, oh my God, my shoulders are tight. I need to do this and I need a massage. I need to get this done. And oh my God, I forgot to take my supplements this morning. And it's just like, oh, okay, can I just let it be the thing? So I think that's a really important thing is that consistency piece is because your nervous system is always changing. Every day you're going to wake up in NSI, Neurosomatic Intelligence, this training that I'm in right now. It's like, before we do any sort of nervous system tool, we assess. And the way that we assess is through range of motion in the body, which is so interesting because the more, you know, regulate— the more you're in dysregulation, the less flexibility or range of motion that you have in your body. The more regulation you're in, the more range of motion and flexibility you have in your body. And so it's important to assess all the time because you're always changing.

Right. Life is always lifing, as we say.

Life is always lifing. Yeah. And that's what we always say, Preston and Alexi always say, "Rondori has begun." It's always happening. It's always happening. Yes, the consistency is key. And I think a nuance here that is really important to, to cover also, this goes along with, with like misconceptions, is that safety doesn't always mean comfortable.

Hmm.

And a lot of people kind of translate that. It's like, oh, you know, that doesn't feel safe. That conversation doesn't feel safe, or that person doesn't feel safe. If we want to grow and expand our nervous system, we need stress. Like, stress is required in order to grow and expand. And so it is absolutely necessary. So being safe doesn't necessarily mean that I am just comfortable and at ease all the time. You know, a lot of people think that, where it's like, okay, I'm just going to create the most comfortable life. But actually, the people that are the most comfortable all the time are the ones that are most triggered or most activated or don't have that range in their nervous system, right? So we want to— it's how we're with the stress that determines how we're able to bounce back from regulation to dysregulation.

That's good.

It's so important because it doesn't mean that, oh, this is going to be an uncomfortable conversation. I'm just going to avoid it, right? It's okay, this is going to be really stressful. I'm gonna hold myself through it. I'm gonna stay in my dignity. I'm gonna stay connected to my breath. I'm gonna feel my feet on the floor, and I'm going to be able to do this. And I'm gonna get really uncomfortable. And what happens is your nervous system expands to meet that because it says, oh, this is a new level of safety. It is safe to have conflict. It is safe to have hard conversations. But the only way to do that is to show it. Right? Again, we're going back to the showing of the nervous system, showing that it's safe even in the stress and that we can recover from stress.

And that's what I, as far as I understand, builds that window of tolerance.

Yes. Yes.

So that, that type of conversation maybe doesn't even create that type of response next time or as big of a response next time.

Yeah. Or like, you're just like, I can handle this. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard. And I can do it, which is, you know, really important in not only in your life but also in business.

Yes. And I, I think, you know, as we kind of wind things down here, I, I want to just touch on the nervous system in growing your business. And I know this is something you've worked so incredibly hard in, and like, I've witnessed such growth in you, and I know now you're supporting your clients in this, and How? I mean, it's like, this is a whole other episode, you know, nervous system and business building, but just on a high level, like, what can you share with us on that?

So I once heard a quote that said, you are living the exact life that your nervous system has the capacity for, and your business is no different. Your business can only be the size of your nervous system, what it has the capacity for. And I learned this firsthand, you know, speaking like back to the beginning of our conversation where it was like, you know, I started out in like a lot of mindset work and I'm a yoga teacher. I have years of yoga education and meditation trainings under my belt as well. And there was a point where I was just like, I've got all the mindset stuff down, but like my body is just not on board. There's just something that keeps happening. I would always hit this threshold and then I would shut down and go into overwhelm. I would, I would, you know, fight, flight, push, push, push, push, push. And then I would shut down and go into overwhelm. And that was a limit for me as a person, but also a huge limit for me and my business. And knowing that, about my business was like, okay, this is why I can't get my business to where I want it to go is because my nervous system did not have the capacity to receive the things that I wanted to do. It didn't perceive the things that I was doing as safe. So it would always be shutting it down, which was a brilliant, brilliant thing. So that's where nervous system work really got powerful for me 'cause that was like, oh, okay, this is all about— Yeah. How if I wanna grow my business, I have to grow my nervous system. I have to grow my somatic body and what my body has the ability to hold because I say I want all these things, but then when it comes down to it, I don't have the capacity to hold it.

Yeah.

And so, you know, the size of your life and your business is really determined by that, the what you have the capacity to hold. And so you can push, you can fight, You can, you know, I, I think women are, you know, so good at doing this. Like you can check all the lists, you can check off all the lists, you can do the thing, but how are you being while you're doing all of those things? What is the energetics behind it? Because that is also gonna determine like the output or the, the kind of like the result of your business. So, you know, and Like we were talking about before, the different states of the nervous system, your nervous system is either gonna, um, move you toward that kind of like aligned, regulated self-leadership action, or it's gonna put you in patterns of avoidance, perfectionism, overthinking, people pleasing, burnout. Like all of those things are huge blockages in your business, right? And also a part of owning a business, right? But if you're not able to move through those things and see yourself in those things, it does become, you get stuck in your business, right? Just like you would get stuck in any state of your nervous system. A dysregulated system might, you know, keep somebody in freeze overthinking their offer instead of launching it. Like being like, oh my God, so should I change the wording on this? Should I do this? Should I, you know, oh my gosh, I didn't say that. Oh, I need to just cancel the whole thing and start all over. Like that would be like a freeze response, right? Or a fight would just be like, just, No, I need to do it my way. I need to do it this way, and this is the only way. I'm not being flexible about it and not being open to anything. And you know, something like that. And that you can see how that might be really a place that could be a room for growth in your business. Um, something about like, you know, the, the stuck kind of like fawn where you're like overdelivering and just like lowering your prices and just saying like, "Oh, okay, I just need to, you know, overdeliver for the expense of myself and my energy." And then, you know, there's the flop, the shutdown where it's like, "Okay, I did it. Now I'm never doing this again. Never doing this. I might as well just quit." Nervous system work is key to building a business that is sustainable, joyful, and like truly aligned because you're not trying to push through. You're building safety and capacity, not only in your body, but in what you have the ability to hold as far as the scale of your business.

Yeah. I mean, that right there, everyone rewind and go listen to that because you probably heard your patterns. I collapse after the launch. I people-please with clients. I overdeliver constantly. I don't hold boundaries. All these things that you and I have both seen women struggling with in business. It roots to this.

And, and I've personally struggled with all of these, you know.

Totally. Yeah, you know, and, and I think there's a, a p— there's a part of me that wants to, you know, just acknowledge like it's not your fault, not you, but the people listening, you know. Like, you might be telling yourself the story, I can't launch, I can't scale, I can't write content, you know, like I can't get clients, and And not to say that you don't need to take action or, you know, do the mindset work or all the things, but this is a, a golden key, what we're talking about here, that I think will override any best intentions.

100%. Yeah. Because your, your business can only go where you feel like you have the capacity to go.

Yeah.

And, and I just always come back to that, like, you are living the exact life and you have the exact business that your nervous system can hold.

Yeah.

And so if you want a bigger business or a bigger life or whatever that means, you know, not just financially, but just like by the amount of things that you can, you know, entertain and hold, the amount of programs you can do, et cetera, et cetera. Part of that is just acknowledging what you have the capacity for. And just saying like, okay, this is what I have the capacity for now. But another part of it is just saying like, okay, it makes sense. And if I want to grow, I need to find safety within this. And another way of saying safety is just being like, I need to be able to see and connect to my truth all the time.

Mm-hmm.

So I don't fall into those patterns of people pleasing, so I don't fall into those patterns of perfectionism, overthinking, quitting, overwhelmed, shut down, et cetera, et cetera. Knowing that about yourself is so important.

Yeah, and that's, you know, I have a new challenge starting called the Scale with Soul Challenge, and that's the root of it. Like when I always say truth is the highest frequency. So if you can stay rooted in what's true and we can start moving from there, and you know, this is a lot of what comes up in opulence, you know, You cannot scale if it doesn't feel true, if it doesn't feel good. I've seen it over the last couple of years. You will revolt. And let's acknowledge the revolt and find the truer path forward instead of trying to push forward. It doesn't work in the long term. And I think for anybody—

It doesn't work.

—who's trying to scale, scale, if it feels like it's not working, there's a reason. And it's your sacred responsibility to acknowledge that because you will soar so much faster once you've identified what and why that is and how you can actually create a pathway forward that's not only aligned with values and purpose and your vision, but most importantly, with the capacity of your nervous system because that's where all of that's coming from anyway.

And, you know, if you're, if you're not able to find regulation and like be in, you know, predominant regulation, you are not going to be able to access your soul.

Right. Yes. You can't hear it.

You can't hear it. You like can't hear it. It's not going to be there. Like it's just going to be a bunch of like, well, so-and-so said I should do this and I should do that. And then you'll be stuck in all those patterns. Right. And so unless you're able to get that kind of like Oof, okay, I can ground into truth, what's real right here. That's the key, man. That is the key.

That is the key. And, you know, before we, we close out, like, one thing I just want to have you affirm to everyone from an empowering standpoint is that the nervous system is highly resilient.

Yes, yes, it is highly resilient and brilliant. And I, you know, one of the best things that I have done when it comes to nervous system work, because I'm a fixer, like when I first started nervous system work, I was like, oh my God, I'm so dysregulated, I need to fix myself all the time. One of the best things that I've done is like, oh, this makes sense. This makes total sense. And just allowing myself to let it make sense. And whatever wave I'm in is just like totally a part of it. And it doesn't mean I have to— just because it's scary doesn't mean I have to stop. I can still be with it.

It's so true. And for anyone listening who's like, oh my God, my nervous system or my business can only go as big as my capacity to hold it. Jamie's going to— of course, you should be in touch with Jamie, which we'll link in the show notes. An upcoming retreat she's going to tell you about. But before we get into the last piece, Jamie, what are like 2 or 3 ways that people, hopefully by the end of this episode, they're able to kind of have a sense of which one are they going into? Is it fight, run, flop? I think that's all of them. And then what are ways aside from orienting in the space, feet on the floor, water, pee, breath, kind of basic needs?

Yeah.

What are like 2 or 3 tools that you would recommend?

Yeah, so there's the fight and flight, which is like the mobilization. It's the thing that gets you moving, which we need sometimes. It's the freeze where it's just like, oh my God, it's like confusion, procrastination. Should I go here? Should I do there? Deer in headlights. And then it's the flop where I'm just like bear in hibernation. Like I just don't wanna do anything. I can't do anything. And then fawn is kind of like, I just need to be a chameleon and make everybody like me in any way, shape, or form. Yvonne can show up in any one of these states, by the way. That's a whole other conversation. But you can think of it as just like, how can I be a chameleon and get people to like me for so that I can survive? So regardless of whatever state you're feeling, sometimes mobilization is— mobilization really does help, or any sort of movement or sound. But the first thing that I would say is like the easiest tool that you can literally do anywhere is orienting. And this is just standing nice and tall in your like full somatic dignity and looking around, noticing the colors in the room and just saying, "Hmm, no bears or lions here." Yeah. Like, that's it. Like, just going around and just like, just having a moment with your body and just showing it, letting it look around. Like, you can even turn around, look behind you, use your eyes to look up and down and all around just to say, oh, okay, no impending danger actually in this moment. Okay. Another thing is vocalizing. Like, The body loves sound. Like, you know, like all animals are like, "Brrr." Like they make all these funny noises and dogs are like, "Ah." They yawn, they have this like sigh, and every animal makes some sort of sound. And that is a release of energy. It's a mobilization of energy. So it does help move some things. Any ancient tradition has like chanting, oming, One of the really powerful tools is called VOO, V-O-O. It was developed by Peter Levine, a somatic experiencing creator, the somatic experiencing creator. And it basically is just like an om, but it's a voo, and you do it from like the lowest part of your belly and you do it in the lowest register. So it sounds something like this. And you just try to get it as low as possible. I like to repeat it a few times or until I feel my like register lower a little bit. And that is really like it stimulates the vagus nerve, which basically activates the parasympathetic response and helps you to take the edge off. The other thing is called a physiological sigh, or some people call it a stress break. And it's a double inhale and just a sigh out of the mouth. Okay. So it's a—

Ah.

Two-part inhale and then a sigh exhale out the mouth.

Ah.

And this also is really amazing for releasing the diaphragm, stimulating the vagus nerve, and also just letting your body let that out, that sound, that energy move. So if you're in a high stress place, you could be like stuck in the inhalation and you could be like almost hyperventilating. And so the double inhale And then that long exhalation, right? It's kind of like that short, sharp inhalation. It's controlled, the, the amount of oxygen that's coming in, and then you just like let all of it out. So it really helps with that. And that is something really great to do if you're just in like a stressful state. I will say about any of these things, what's really important is that you pause and just notice after every single one. So you don't just do it and then go back to whatever you were doing, right? So Vu, just looking around the room, your stress break, your double inhale, long exhale, just give yourself a second to just like, okay, return to everyday breathing, take a few breaths and just come back and notice what you notice.

That's so helpful. Those are going to be so impactful for people. And I love like, I would encourage everyone to try one now, you know, like, yeah.

Or like, yeah, my daughter's starting— started to do the vu and the double inhale and the sigh. She's, she's like 3 and a half and she already does it because I do it so often.

How life-changing for her though at this age, you know, like, yeah, yeah, giving her tools.

Because the thing is, is like, these are just— these are tools, right? These are tools that we can use to just be in our bodies.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

Jamie, this, you are just like such a wealth of knowledge. It's such a gift for me to watch you in your zone of genius. Like, it's just like, oh my God, you are just—

It is so fun. You're just incredible. I'm a nervous system nerd and it shows, and it's so fun to talk about this.

We're so grateful that you were willing to share this. I know this is gonna have such a huge impact on everyone and I know people are gonna be like, how do I work with you? What's your deal? What are you doing? So tell people—

Yes.

People, like, what are you up to? How can they get involved with you? We'll link your Instagram and everything in the show notes.

Okay, great. Yeah, the best way to connect with me is on Instagram. It's @beingjamielugo. So B-E-I-N-G, because I'm all about the being aspects of personal development, and my first name, last name. And then, yeah, or check out my website, jamielugo.com. You can join my email list there. I'm always having some sort of, I'm always sending emails and sending some goodies in there. This fall, I'm hosting a healing, a desert healing retreat in Joshua Tree, October 10th through 13th. And it's a women's only retreat that's Friday to Monday, the long weekend. And it's gonna be a lot of yoga 'cause I'm a yoga teacher as well, but it's also gonna be somatic expansion workshops, nervous system, recalibration, regulation, and I'll be giving you a ton of nervous system tools and training, you know, everything that I can give you in a weekend. But yeah, it's gonna be a yoga retreat, but also full of workshops and programming. So I really wanted to create a weekend that wasn't just like, oh, go do yoga and then just collapse into whatever else you do for the rest of the day. I wanted it to be a fully immersive experience. Yeah. Experience in community of women who are there for the same reasons. And yeah, it's going to be really powerful. We're going to do a fire ceremony. We'll be doing some belief work, some forgiveness work. It's going to be packed full of lovely somatic embodiment tools that you'll be able to take with you and some tools that you can really implement in your life as well. So yeah, check it out. That's on my website as well. Again, 10th through 13th of October. And that's the Desert Healing Retreat.

Amazing. And then you also have your online program, which we have to— have to plug for those of you who can't travel.

Yes. So Reclaim is going to happen again this fall/winter. It's an 8-week program. And I like to call it the self-healing toolkit. It's It's really 8 weeks of all the things, all the tools that have impacted my healing journey. And I wish that I had all of these tools 5 to 10 years ago in my back pocket. So I created a program that gives them all to you in, you know, forever and ever and ever that trains you on all these tools, that you are in a group of women that is implementing this. All of us together for 8 weeks, and then you have all of it, all these practices for the rest of your life to fall back on. And when, like, life gets a little choppy— because life, you know, always be lifin'— that's right. So yeah, that'll be coming this fall. Waitlist is up on the website, so if you're interested in that, I have the waitlist is open for that.

Perfect. And we'll make sure it's laid out because I know people are going to want to plug in with you.

Yes.

This was just so amazing, such a gift. You're just an incredible human. You're an incredible coach. You're an incredible wife. You're an incredible mom. I just am so grateful to know you. And I'm so grateful, you know, to have relationship with you in all these different contexts. And it's just a joy to be on the path. So thank you.

Thanks, Claire Sellers Sellers. It's my pleasure entirely. I love being here and just supporting you, supporting your business. Having you support me and my business and just being sisters like we were from the first day that we met, um, you know, connected on this journey.

Thank you for tuning in to the Prosperous Woman Podcast. I am so grateful for your presence and for being a part of this community. Feel free to DM me @itsclairesellers on Instagram. I would love to connect with you and hear what resonated with you in this this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the show. And if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave a 5-star review. Your feedback means the world to me and helps me reach more incredible women just like you. And because I love to spoil you, just DM me a screenshot of your review on Instagram and I'll send you my free Prosperity Activation Course as a thank you. It's my way of investing Thank you for investing in you and your dreams.