Climbing Kilimanjaro and Beyond: The Bigmoose Legacy Journey

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding.

And I'm claire fudge.

Welcome to the business of endurance.

We raised 60,000 pounds for teenage cancer Trust and what that did was when I came back, that sparked in me that I wanted to live a life of purpose.

Like a lot of our team are trained in suicide, first aid and mental health first aid. So they can have those conversations each other. But also with our guests that come in, we'll often have referrals that come in through the coffee shop.

Welcome to another episode and season of the Business of Endurance podcast where we explore the inspirational journeys and practical wisdom of remarkable individuals who blend passion with perseverance. Today, we're thrilled to host Chloe and Jeff Smith, the dynamic father daughter duo behind Big Moose and Big Moose Coffee Company. What started from a profound personal loss has grown into a beacon of hope and community support in Cardiff. Jeff is a former professional athlete turned philanthropist and Chloe a record setting mountaineer and passionate advocate for mental health. And they've combined their adventuresome spirits to create more than just a cafe. They've established a charity dedicated to drastically cutting down the waiting time for mental health services and supporting those in need and innovative community focused solutions. Join us as we dive into their heartfelt story, learn about their unique business model and uncover the powerful lessons that they've gathered along their hackful journey. Now, as a business coach, there is so much wisdom in this episode that I guarantee you'll take both inspiration and and practical life advice away from it. Plus, if you hang around until the end, I've got a gift for you that will help you create an incredible legacy that can rival Jeff and Chloe's incredible legacy. So I know you are going to love this episode, this first episode of season seven with the incredible father daughter duo that is Chloe and Jeff Smith of Big Moose and Big Moose Coffee Company. So welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast, Chloe. Jeff, I'm really looking forward to chatting to you. I know we are going to have a jam packed episode full of stories and inspiration, but I think the place this really started was on the slopes of Kilimanjaro and, and as somebody that's had climbing Kilimanjaro as a with my family on my bucket list for quite a few years, I've seen Kilimanjaro with my own eyes. I've never climbed it. I'm really keen to start with that story. So Chloe, can you tell us what led you tell us that story about how you ended up climbing Kilimanjaro and what happened?

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us. We're both really excited. We went to killy in 2010, so I was 15 at the time, and basically that came about because we're a really close unit. Dad, myself, my mum and my sister. And my sister is three years older than me and she was a straight A student, 100% maths A level. She was one of those just really smart cookies. But she didn't want to go to uni, she wanted to be an actress. So Mum and Dad had always brought us up to believe in ourselves, follow our dreams and do whatever kind of made us happy. So they backed her 100% with wanting to pursue becoming an actress. And so she flew off aged 18 to Paris, but left a massive gap in our sort of family unit. And I remember saying to Mum and Dad, I just want to fill my time with something I want to do, like a challenge or something. We'd never climbed mountains before. I don't even know where the idea came from, but I decided I wanted to climb clemodaro. But at 15 you need a guardian. But yeah, we trained really, really hard and we decided we wanted to do some fundraising for charity as well. And it was the first time we'd ever done any charity fundraising at all. So we chose to support Barnardo's children's charity and we chose to sort of ring fence whatever we raised to a project here in Cardiff because we felt like it would do more in a smaller setting. So we decided to aim to raise 10,000 pounds, which is a hefty target. And we didn't have like a massive network of people. Big Moose wasn't a thing at the time, but we just worked really hard. We packed bags in a hamster, we put events on and we ended up raising 15,000, which was just amazing. And that went to just a really small project where there are lots of young mums and mums that had been kicked out of their homes because they'd gotten pregnant. And it was an emotional time for me because we were similar ages and just how my life was going on one course and meeting these young people who just needed a chance and needed someone to take a bit of a chance on them, I suppose, and give them a bit of hope. And by putting this 15 grand in, it just made such a difference to the unit. So it was a really beautiful time, wasn't it?

And fantastic.

The climb was tough with a 15.

Year old daughter of my own at the moment. Describe to me what climbing Kilimanjaro at 15 was like and what was it like, when you got to the summit.

It changed the course of my life. And I think dad saw that happening, and I remember him saying to me when I was 14, 15 really was. He was like, this will always be a calling card for you. You can always have this in your back pocket that you did this at 15. And even now, I'm 29. Sat on a podcast talking about it. It stayed with us and we trained really hard. I'd never done any sort of extreme stuff before, so my body was obviously quite young and not particularly in amazing shape. So we trained hard. We were training sort of four times a week down the gym. We had personal trainers. We were up at Pennavan every weekend. The cl. It's tough, isn't it? I think it really gets underestimated. You go through so many different terrains. You're in the jungle, you're going through glaciers, you're going through almost like deserty sort of sand. And then it gets colder and colder as you go up.

And the altitude.

Oh, gosh, yeah, the altitude was tough. As soon as you hit 2,000 meters, the altitude could start to hit you. So we were really lucky, actually. We didn't struggle with altitude sickness, but there were people on our team who did. And the strongest guy in Our team was 21, and he was the one that you'd have bet on getting to the top. And he was one of the only ones who didn't. Just because altitude doesn't discriminate hits anyone, really, doesn't it?

We trained with the Altitude center in London, so a mutual friend of ours linked us in with Richard Pullen, who's the Altitude center owner, and they backed us and supported us and gave us a free unit, which we used and trained on every other thing we've done.

Yeah. And the guides decided that the best way to inspire us would be, like, you're only an hour away. So we'd get an hour in and we'd be like, are we not there? Then they'd be like, spend another two hours.

And we were, like, relentless.

Yeah.

God, that would drive me crazy. I'd have thrown them off the mountain.

I wasn't happy, Charlie.

The way to inspire us, I think it was they were trying their best, but it was just incredible. We were up high, so we could see just, like, the beautiful sunrise coming up, and we just stood at the top. And I just remember we were just both so emotional because we'd been through a lot to get there. And, yeah, it was a very proud moment.

Extremely. Do you remember when the Water trace. I literally thought she was going to die. She was in such a bad way. We were trying to get water and some sort of nutrients into her, but unfortunately the water bottles had frozen.

We were such rookies.

Terrible.

Yeah. We had the camelbacks in our rucksack, which are great, but it was like minus 20 degrees, so everything had frozen, so we had no water. Luckily, the porters were a lot more equipped than us and luckily they had some warm water and my glucose sweets. It was amazing, wasn't it?

Gave her a couple of glucose tablets and she just literally came back to life.

Yeah, I think you're preaching to the choir here. How safe is climbing Kilimanjaro, particularly as a 15 year old, but in general, how safe is it?

It's a pretty dangerous mountain. Is it?

We had an interview where BBC came to our house, did a story on Chloe, and the guy that was interviewing us said, what do you feel like as a parent knowing that 10 people a year die on Kilimanjaro? I did not know that statistic. It's quite a daunting one. We didn't underestimate the sort of dangers, but I think you need to just get yourself in the best preparation.

I have heard that there is a more dangerous mountain than people ever give it credit for because we'll see it on BBC documentaries and things like that. And it clearly is more dangerous than people expect. And I picked that up from speaking to other people that have done it. So it is interesting. Now, obviously that has inspired many different things since. But one thing that I think we need to understand fairly early in this conversation is where the name Moose came from. Moose seems to feature as part of your charity, your business, Jeff, can you explain to me how that originated, where that all came from?

Yeah, I played ice hockey professionally. I think I went pro at 21. And my defenseman when I was playing hockey was a guy called Gary Moose Clunan. He was nicknamed Moose because he was a gargantuan sized guy and he and I were great friends and I was best man at his wedding and we just had lots of fun together growing up and playing hockey together. But unfortunately, in 2007, we lost him to cancer. So it was a massive loss. And it was the first person that I'd been close to that had actually passed in my life. So it was quite an awful time for me. And everything that we've done, we've come up with the charity, as you mentioned, the coffee shop, and is about leaving a legacy for him. And rather than having it as a half empty glass and losing my friend, using it as an inspiration to actually do some cool work and give him a memory. And I often bring his family and talk to his widow and she's very proud of what we've done in his name. So it's a legacy. Although he's gone, he's never forgotten and we keep on referring back to him and hopefully shining a light on the inspiration that he's provided both of us with to actually create the charity that.

We'Re with now, Big Moose Coffee Company in particular. This isn't just a cafe, it's a, it's a community hub aimed at supporting people in many different ways. Can you explain what it's all about, Explain the business model and, and explain what sort of impact you're hoping it's going to have or it is happening, having on the community?

Back in 2014, we were going down to a soup kitchen and it was during the Christmas period where there was a lot of commercialism, a of money being spent. And dad and I were just a bit like we were done with the pressure of Christmas and we just wanted to go back to basics and just do something to give back really. So we went and started going down to the soup kitchen and met a lot of the homeless community and very quickly got to know a lot of them, had a lot of conversations and we were taking down food and drink. Then we engaged with some local restaurants and we were taking down some like cottage pie and we had a pizza truck come down and we were just doing as much good stuff as we could support this soup kitchen. Then we engaged with some local shops like Cotswold Outdoors. David Lloyd got involved and they were all donating warm clothes and bedding and it was starting to build a little bit. And we basically created this Facebook group called Big Moves and we try to encourage people to live happier, healthier and kinder lives. So the soup kitchen was where it all began. And then every month we were driving home and every month we were saying somebody needs to do something about this. People who are really struggling with their mental health. That became a running theme across every person in the homeless community that we. And we just kept saying it and then one month dad was like, we just need to do something about this. And at the time, my sister had come back from Paris and was working in London at a place called the House of St. Barnabas, which was in Soho. Yes, a four story beautiful building in Soho where downstairs was a beautiful sort of private members club. And then on the fourth floor they had this training facility where they worked with people who'd experienced homelessness, struggled with their mental health, and they put them through City and Guild qualification and hospitality and then once they finished that, I think it was a 12 week course, they parachuted them into the club, they worked behind the bar, they were waiters, waitresses, reception, just basically working in that industry and just giving them a hand up instead of a handout. So we were really inspired by this place where my sister was working and dad was like, we should do something in Cardiff. And it was probably one of his first really big ideas. We came up with the idea of coffee shop. The idea at the time was that we would create a non profit where we could employ and train people who experienced homelessness, struggled with their mental health, on the path to suicide. Young people that needed just somewhere to give them a chance and just basically using the business as a force for good. Neither of us had hospitality experience, really. My claim to fame was I worked at Wagamama. You've never worked in hospitality at you, ever, ever. And it became really clear that other people wanted to help as well, because we had loads of volunteers coming down to this soup kitchen. And in the end there was more of us volunteering than there was at the homeless community. So we decided to get a coffee shop. And we didn't have loads of money, we just had a lot of passion.

We actually did go to the council because we had an idea that we would go to the council and ask them if they had any empty buildings that we could potentially use and utilize to build the coffee shop that we're talking about. And they offered us two places which had very short tenures, approximately a year's lease that we could have, but free of charge. And we thought about it and we thought, we're going to build a big following and a big community. That's the plan. If we do that in a place that we have to leave after 12 months, we're going to leave behind the goodwill. So we actually brought some courage to the fore and just went, actually, we need to do this as a commercial venture and take the courage of our convictions and jump in. So we got a commercial lease, very dilapidated, very old.

There was no electric, there was no plumbing, there was asbestos everywhere. It was just awful. But there was just something about the building that just had heart. And I think the estate agent thought we were going to hate it. And he came in and we were like, like, this is it, this is what we want. But it was just something about it. It was just Cool. It just had character and history. So, yeah, so we got quoted like a couple of hundred grand to do it up, and we certainly did not have that. So we basically went to our community and basically just said, if anyone wants to get involved and help, donate time, donate materials. And then we also did a Kickstarter. We said we wanted to create a coffee shop that was a nonprofit to help people use it as a force for grid, and said that we were going to aim to raise £20,000 in seven days. Slightly ambitious, but the way that Kickstarter works is if you don't get the full 20,000 pound in that time frame, you get nothing. So everything's refunded back out to the people who supported. So there was massive pressure on in that seven days, wasn't it?

Pressured?

They were like, oh, Jess bitten off more than he can chew this time. Like, you guys are never going to do this. And just really slated us, really. And it was horrible. And I was only sort of 21 at the time, and I was really upset. And me and Mum came home, we were like, I don't know if people are actually going to back this. And we made the wrong decision decision. And dad was not happy.

I don't often get angry, but I got angry, which is good. I think sometimes you need a crisis to actually kickstart things.

So we went to Facebook and did a bit of a battle cry, as we like to call it. Basically saying, if people wanted this, if they wanted to see it succeed, if they wanted to see it open, and if they wanted us to make this change, then we needed them to back us, whether that was a pound five, ten, whatever it may be. And overnight we bought in £16,000 by the Friday we'd done it. And then we had some real friends who said to us, you've still got two more days of fundraising. Why don't you do a stretch target of another 10,000 and try and just push for more? In a sense, that would allow us to get a coffee van, which would allow us to travel more, tell a story more, employee more, etc. And with four minutes to spare, we did manage to get the 30K, which was just incredible. So that helped pay for everything, really, didn't it? Yeah.

And I think what it did was it really inspired our community and everybody that supported us, us by fundraising and just following along, really enjoyed the journey that we were on.

I was going to say, isn't it brilliant when somebody tells you you can't do something, what favor they did for you?

Hundreds and God knows what would have happened if they hadn't done it, but it was just amazing. And I think it taught me and obviously dad has just like instilled in me to just have that, like, never giving up sort of way of being. And the community wanted to support it.

Yeah, yeah, it was great.

You obviously both absolutely love the challenge. And like, just listening to you starting that, just getting over all those obstacles, I'm really interested to know how, how did that lead into some of the other challenges that you've both done? Because I know, Jeff, you've done some amazing challenges and Chloe yourself as well. So how does that kind of lead into the other challenges that you are doing alongside the coffee shop?

I think just to rewind to Chloe's story about kilimanjaro, that was 2010. 11. I fell in love with mountains on Kilimanjaro. I'd never actually done any mountaineering, and when we were actually on the mountain in Tanzania was the first time I'd ever slept in a tent, which I loved and fell in love with mountains in general. So in 2011, Clay was doing some exams and I decided that I would go off to Russia and see if I could climb a mountain called Mount Elbrus, which I did and really enjoyed it. It was just very fulfilling. I then went to Alaska and climbed Mount Denali. Then 2013, went over to try and attempt my first 8,000 meter peak, which was a mountain called Mount Manus. Lou. So I went there with the basis that I thought that I potentially had the ability to climb Mount Everest. But I wanted to test myself on a mountain that needed oxygen and there was one of the 14 highest mountains in the world. So I went over to Nepal and climbed with a fantastic company called himex Himalayan Experience and learn some great skills. But it was 2014 when I went over to attempt Everest, fundraised for Teenage Cancer Trust and came back, unfortunately, without even attempting to climb the announcement because there'd been a massive ice fall which had actually a big chunk of ice about the size of a two story building had fallen off in the Cumbria Ice Wall and it actually killed 16 sherpa. So out of respect, everybody on the mountain decided that we wouldn't climb. That year, we raised £60,000 for teenage cancer Trust. And what that did was when I came back, that sparked in me that I wanted to live a life of purpose. And by donating that money to Teenage Cancer Trust and seeing some of the children on the wards that we have in Cardiff, it just made me realize that all My life, I've been striving for money to look after my family and security. But what really made me happy was helping other people. It was quite a difficult thing because as a 50 year old man, it was difficult to actually go to my peers and go, I want to help people. And that's what really flicks my switch. But I'm proud of that. Now I'm nothing. 2014, when we came back, we actually decided that we wanted to really drive things forward, didn't we? So that was where we wanted to name Big Moose's legacy. And I think the training that I received when I played ice hockey, I was a goalie, so I was always under pressure and I think pressure is a privilege. I enjoy the kind of stuff that we talked about. So I think coming back, having not done Everest, was a driver and we both realized it at the time because we worked really hard on raising the 60 grand and we just loved it. We loved the actual fact that we could do something that could make such a massive difference.

So how was it when you got to go back and actually climb Everest?

I wasn't going to go back. I was in the position where financially it was quite a challenge for me to find the money to go back. But I sat on my kitchen table one day talking to a friend. I'm very good at pushing people to do things out of their comfort zone. I was talking to him about some stuff and he turned the question on me and he went, what about you? What are you doing? I said, I haven't really got anything planned at the moment. I just come back from MDS where I'd run and met Nick Buster in the Sahara desert. I didn't have any plans. And he was like, you're being a fraud because you're not actually going to do something that you want to do. You'd like to do Everest, wouldn't you? And I was like, yeah, I'd like to try. He said, well, you need to do it. Then I just went, okay, it's time to go and just tell people that I was going to go back. So I worked really hard to fundraise. We took ourselves on a little tour. Instead of fundraising for charity, what we decided to do was go around to schools, went around and saw approximately 3,000 school kids at schools from Manchester, London, the South Wales area. And the intention was that we would educate the kids in the schools about what the journey to Everest was going to look like and what the social media content was going to give to them. Once I was out there which clearly ran the social media side of things so these kids could engage and then hopefully I would come back safely. I had a plan B in case I didn't come back, but luckily we didn't need that one. But we had to think about it and risk assess. But we went around the door and saw all these kids, got them on the journey with us, that they were being inspired by the journey that I was taking, going to Nepal and trying to climb the highest mountain in the world. And then when I came back, we went around to every school again and just high five that, pretty much all the kids. It was amazing. Fantastic journey.

It's brilliant. And I love the fact that when you talk about a comfort zone, I say quite often that it's when we step outside our comfort zone that the magic happens, isn't it? And so I'm sure you buy into that. But it's inspiring when you can show, I'm sure the impact that you've had on all those children is absolutely incredible when they see other people doing exactly that. Chloe, you obviously you act as a mentor and a coach. What piece of advice do you find yourself repeatedly offering up to young females in particular, and how do you kind of help them apply these lessons in their lives?

My background is primary school teaching. So when we were starting Big Moose, I was still trained and to be a teacher, which I loved the idea of. I basically wanted to be Miss Honey for Matilda. That was my dream and it wasn't quite like that, unfortunately. And there was a lot of red tape and I was probably a little bit too maverick to be in the school setting. I wanted to just break free and I felt a bit chained. But I always wanted to help and I always wanted to work with kids and I always wanted to help shape future generations. That was always my sort of dream. But we started Big Moose and I've been allowed to help and support people through one way. But I do still really love that school environment. So I'm really lucky. I get to go into schools semi regularly and work with students kind of one on one. And I think probably like one of the biggest things that's changed since I was in school is social media becoming a lot more prevalent. And a lot of the time it's working with students to understand how they can use social media positively. A lot of the time I get kids saying to me that they haven't got enough time to put hard work into, whether that's actual subjects, whether that's clubs outside of school, etc. So we do a Lot of checking screen time and a lot of sort of. Actually there's eight hours there that's being spent on the phone. How can we use that elsewhere? So just like reshaping boundaries and stuff when it comes to phones. But I think as well, social media and YouTube and influencers have kind of taught young people that get big on these platforms and that's your career for life and happy days. You can make a fortune. And I think for me it's really about instilling into young people that everything needs hard work and it needs grit and it needs determination. And those are the skills and resilience that I really enjoy talking about. And also going from that sort of place of having the motivation to do something, whether that be join a new club or go to the gym or put your effort into your schoolwork. But then when that motivation kind of wanes, moving into the sort of discipline and understanding how you can work with your brain to become disciplined and to become good at pushing yourself even when you don't want to do something. So we do a lot of work around that as well.

How do you see community really sort of helping people with mental health issues. So in terms of getting people together, do you have young people coming in as well? Do you see people sort of thriving in that environment?

Yeah. The coffee shop is about creating a safe space. And one of my favorite comments we ever got was a few years ago someone said thank you for being a safe space to go when the world gets too much. And I think that just perfectly sums it up because we don't have WI fi. That was something we were really stronghold. We want people to come in, just turn their phones off and talk. Basically. Coffee shop, we bring people in. So at the moment we're part of the school called Greenhill who work with young people who have social and emotional and behavioral issues. And we're basically working with a young lad at the moment who is just amazing, isn't he?

Yeah.

And he's doing a 12 week program with us at the moment. And he's on week nine, I think it is. And he has learned how to make coffee. He started doing some latte art. He's servant front of house, which he said he never wanted to do. But he's doing it and he's loving it. And we're getting messages every week, being like, I've been served by him. He's amazing. And at the end of the 12 week program that we do on the last one, they bring in, whether it be a teacher or a parent or Whoever they want and they bring the person in and they have food on us and the young person will take their order, make their coffee, put their order in the kitchen, deliver it and then do all the service around that. This young lad that's with us at the moment, he apparently brought his mum in on the weekend. He's going to make the. Make all the food and drink for her. And it's just about giving people a chance and giving people a bit of hope, because if he'd have gone to an interview nine weeks ago, he probably wouldn't have gotten that job. But what he's done by coming to us is that we've gone, we're going to help you, we're going to support you, we're going to give you a really safe space to grow into who you are. And at the end of it, we give them a reference so they can take that away and put stuff on their CV and have our name on their cv. And it's just such a beautiful space.

I think it's a building full of love. Customer base are very accepting of the fact that we've got people. It's a bit like when you get wonky fruit.

It's a bit like that in a human story. Like a lot of our team are trained in suicide, first aid and mental health first aid. So they can have those conversations with each other. But also with our guests that come in. We'll often have referrals that come in through the coffee shop where people have been struggling and they just needed somewhere to go. Conversation and people when they're lonely. We've had. We had a young girl quite recently who was on the bus into town and got completely overwhelmed and ended up having a massive anxiety attack, but came straight to the shop. She couldn't even speak, but our team just totally knew what to do. They just looked after her and she sent us a message afterwards, just being like, you have no idea how much I needed that support. I think for us it's about connection and bringing humans back together.

I love that. And I like what you were saying about not having Wi Fi and that sense of just people connecting as human beings again, rather than connecting with other human beings via their phone as well. Yeah. And, Geoff, I was reading somewhere that you had mentioned that. I'm not sure whether it was Everest one or Everest two, but where you had come back. How many times have you been been.

To Nepal A few times, but twice to climb it.

Twice to climb it. I'm not sure which one you were talking about at the time. But I heard you mention or read that you had said when you went to Everest that it changed you in so many different ways. But one of the ways was that you had this sense of calm. And actually just before we interviewed you, you were talking about how calm you were having had a puncture before coming on the episode today. But how do you think that doing an adventure challenge, really pushing yourself, how has that changed you? How have you been able to have this now sense of calm, do you think?

It's a great question. I think Russell Bryce, who was my guide on Everest, I got to the stage where on Everest too, where I didn't have enough money to actually get across the line to pay for the trip. And Russell Bryce, being the philanthropic guy that he is, said to me, you need to come to Everest because it's going to change your life. And I owed him a lot of money. And he said to me, just come and pay me when you come back. And I said to him, do you want me to get a contract saying that I don't in case I could potentially die and I am a lot of money. And he went, no, just come. You need to come. And I went. And getting to the top and looking down on the world and just having that moment probably about 15, 20 minutes on the summit of Mount Everest, being the highest person on the planet. And also what Russ was fantastic at was reading the weather. So the day that I actually managed to summit on 26 May, I was the first person on the summit that day. So it was like a very spiritual. I'm not a spiritual person, but it was a very spiritual day. And I think it was just a sense of peace. And I think coming back, we've gone through a few things with the coffee shop and we've just worked on the basis that for me, on a personal level, nothing's going to be as hard as Everest. I've got some personal stuff that I'm going on with now, but Everest is a tough one. And I use it as an example to go, well, if I can do Everest, I can do anything. And you just need to stay calm because panic and getting anxious about things is not the right way to be.

We basically had drug dealers basically set up tents outside of our coffee shop. And it was a really volatile and horrible time. Our coffee shop is down like a little side street. So off the main sort of pathway that there's not a lot of passing trade, these tents set up and there were syringes all over the floor.

They were defecating they were shouting at the staff and it just got very dangerous. It was awful.

And we had to close the coffee shop in the end because our team just didn't feel safe. And the council didn't help, the police didn't help. It was just one of the most lonely, scary times. And we closed for about a month in the end, and we paid all the team the whole time through that and we just didn't know what to do. We were just completely stuck. And then one night there was just this. We have cctv. And there was just this massive fight and they trashed all the tents and that was it. They were gone and never to return again. But it was a really challenging time and it was a lot to do with county lines and drugs and stuff. It was really challenging, but we got through it. And we now use that kind of as a reference point of nothing's been as bad touchwood as the tents and we got through that. How do we get through whatever the next problem can be? And I think what dad does is he's that face that the team need to see. He's that air of calm. And I think he's taught me that over the last sort of six years, since we've been working together really closely. There's no point panicking. Control the controllable and just do what we can do. We've had a number of things happen with the charity, and we were talking about one today, actually, and just how dad will always bring that sort of positive spin to it. And I think we're trying now to teach our team that, because he's very much taught me that over the years. Years. I think it just makes you a better human to just not react with drama. And stress isn't good for anyone. And there's always a way through things.

I think you alluded to this a minute ago. I think I'm right in saying that you have been diagnosed with Parkinson's, Jeff, is that right?

Yes.

At what point in your journey of climbing mountains did you get that diagnosis? And how's that influenced what you're doing now?

I got diagnosed four years ago, kept it a secret for nearly three years, which put a lot of pressure on me. So every time I had a social event or every time I went on a podcast, every time I did a bit of public speaking, it was lots of pressure because I was trying to hide what I'd actually got, how it's influenced me. You probably would be able to answer that better than myself, Clara. But I think if we analyze the last four years, I was in a position where in 2021, I'd been to the top of Everest, came back and I decided that I needed something in my life. I knew I had Parkinson's, but I didn't know whether it was going to stop me from climbing. So I decided that potentially I could try and climb K2 with Parkinson's. Probably a bit of a foolhardy idea, if I'm really honest, but at the same time that I was actually thinking about that, we'd identified that we'd actually saved five people with the Big Moose charity. We'd actually save five people from killing themselves. So five people were on the path to suicide and had told us that. So we've been mulling that over. I had, and I had a guy that mentors me, Dan Hardy, sent through a video. On the video, it was a very simplistic message, but it was every day we're all writing our own eulogies.

I just think that is an amazing comment about every day you are writing your own eulogy. And I think that is something definitely for us all to be thinking about right now. What is your eulogy going to look like? But some great stuff. So if you wait around to the end, Jeff is going to give us a few more pointers on what his legacy and what is he going to leave. So stick around for that.

And I thought to myself, do I want my eulogy to be that I've climbed Everest and I've climbed K2, or do I want it to be that I've saved more lives? It was a very simplistic decision, a very simple decision to make. I wanted to save more lives. So we had a little think and I was thinking about the way we built our system up, because our system works, that we get a referral in. So somebody comes along and says, I need help with my mental health. And we have access to 300 therapists that we use all the time, but we have access to a team of 300 therapists. So the bit that's missing is the bit in the middle, which is the money to pay those therapists. I thought about it in a very simple way and just thought, we need to go big, we need to get a challenge to try and raise a lot of money, because the year before we'd had 27,000 pound of fundraising coming from the charity, which is a great amount of money and we're very grateful for the people that had fundraised it, but we needed more. So armed with my Parkinson's in my rucksack I had this idea that we needed to go super big.

First idea was the coffee shop. This was idea number two. So I got a message from dad saying, I have an idea. I need to see your real life for this. I was like, okay. So it came around and we went for a walk. And I just remember him giving me that analogy of, we've got the therapist, we've got people who need support. What do we need? We need to raise money. And he said to me, I think we need to raise a million pound. And I was like, okay. So just for context, we had no team at the time. It was just me and dad doing it as a passion project. We had no offices, we had no funders, we had no idea what we were doing. We were just complete again, just leading with passion and enthusiasm, and we just wanted to help people. And we had a bucket full of love and just wanted to give it out, really. So dad basically said, what do you think? And I was like, we can. Yeah, we can try. We can give it a go. And then he was like, but I think we need to raise it in a year.

Flagging the sand time. How do you measure it if you don't actually put a time frame on it?

Exactly right when it comes to goal setting. So how did you achieve raising over a million pounds in that year? Yeah, I'm sensing a similarity here to the Kickstarter principle. Anyway, but how did you manage to succeed raising a million pounds?

We got to 486 days and we'd raised 1.16. So we didn't actually achieve the target of raising it in 365, but by 486, we'd raised 1.16. Wow. You know, that's the question. We broke it down. So everything that we do, every. Every race I've run, every mountain I've climbed, we always break it down. And it's the old analogy of how do you eat an elephant, one buyer at a time. So rather than getting consumed with the size of the elephant, let's just look at taking one buyer and another buyer. So we both did million pounds down and we worked out, but it was only a hundred ten thousand. So if you think at age 15, Chloe raised 15,000, I know I can help anybody and guide anybody. If they've got passion and drive, I can give them tools to raise ten grand without doubt. So we broke it down that we only needed to find 100 businesses or 100 individuals that would put their hand up and go, I'm going to raise ten Grand. So I think I was blessed with a little bit of good fortune. I'd gone for a coffee with a friend of mine and we've been chatting about Big Moose and we've been chatting about what our goals were to do, and he was asking me about what was on the table and I told him about project 1 million and I told him exactly how we wanted to do it, which is to get 100 people to raise £10,000. And he was listening intently and then decided they needed the bathroom, so he went to the toilet. And the bit I think was quite spooky was that I had a message come through on my phone from a girl that we'd helped put through therapy. And she messaged and just said, you just want to say thank you. I was basically on the path to suicide before you interjected and got me the help that I needed. And now, as a mom of three, I'm living my best life. I was emotional about it and looking at it. When he came back from the toilet, he asked me if I was okay and I said, have a look at this. I showed him the phone without her name, obviously, and he read the message and he sat down really slowly and he looked at me and he said to me, what do you want me to do? And if I'm really honest, I didn't really know at the time what I wanted him to do. So I took some time and just went, what do you want to do? And he went, I'm going to raise £10,000 for you. So we were off to the races. By telling the story, having a bit of divine intervention, I think also helps. He was my first person. So when we left the coffee shop, we emotionally hugged and I walked away thinking, we're, we're on the road to the million. Messaged a friend of our house and told him the story and he went, I'm in as well. By the time I got home, we'd got £30,000 pledged and it just grew from there. So I think it was about having belief and passion and just getting people on the journey and if you can tell people what they're going to do, then it's been an amazing journey, hasn't it?

Yeah, really amazing. We built such a beautiful community and there's a team, we're a team of six now, including us, so we're still a tiny team. But those girls, I think two of them were on the journey with us. They helped us get over the line as well. And it's been the most beautiful experience.

Isn'T it, yeah, we're now sitting with 49 people, tell us that we've saved their lives. So I think the decision to actually go for the million was the best decision. It's the worst thing in the world is if you don't try something.

I just think this is absolutely brilliant. And you've touched on so many important business lessons, whether it's the goal setting of eating the elephant one bite at a time, whether it's if you don't try, you definitely fail. But the one thing that actually stands out to me within another lesson that I think is so brilliant in business and life and that is who, not how. It's the term that Dan Sullivan came up with. But when you guys realize raising a million pounds is a huge challenge, but if you can find a hundred who's, then they'll do the work for you. And I think that's really brilliant. It's not how I do it, it's who I go to to do it. And that I think is, is really brilliant. Now, we always like to ask every guest on the podcast for books that have inspired them, help them on their journey, they find themselves recommending to others. Are there any particular books, and I'll ask you both this question. Are there any particular books that, that you found yourself recommending to others or helping you on your journey?

Mine was one of the first ones that you actually told me to read, which was Simon Sinek. Start with why. We say it every day, don't we? Every day we go to do something, we're like, what's the why? Why are we doing this? Why are we putting out what's the message? And just always coming back to that why? And how is it helping someone? How is it moving the charity further forward? It's just in the makeup of everything we do, isn't it?

Yeah, very much so.

One thing that's just occurred to me, which, because I often think about it in a business sense, but how do you use that principle for individ that are going through a tough time?

The style of therapy that we use is really interesting. It's called Human gibbons and it's basically described as humans getting their emotional needs met. So if you look at a plant that's got needs such as it needs soil, it needs water, it needs light, et cetera, for it to be well. And as humans we have physical needs, so we need oxygen, we need sleep, we need nutrition, we need hydration, but we also have emotional needs. And this style of therapy is basically created this list of nine emotional needs. The things like security, so having a safe space to go community is another one. So it's nine of them. And basically the idea is if all nine of those needs are being met in balance, so not too much, not too little, then technically we have a, well, human. So the style of therapy that we use is solution focused very about getting back to the root of how we can just be human and how we can bring people together and how we can get those needs met. And for instance, if you've got someone who is. Is in a domestic abuse sort of situation, their security is not being met at all because they're not in a safe space when they go home, their privacy probably isn't being met. So each client is different and individual. But I think it gets back to that message of why and who we are as humans, what makes us human. And when you look at those nine emotional needs, again back to the what is their why in life? So when we're looking at how we can achieve the needs, what is it that makes them happy? What is it that they need more of? What is it need they less of of? Everyone is different. But I do think probably are.

I think when you actually look at those needs and work out what they are, pretty much every human being that you talk to who's got a problem of source reflects back to those human needs. That's the why.

I think that's really interesting. Yeah. And I. And that ties in very much. I know Tony Robbins talked about the six human needs, which is an evolution of Maslow's. What about you, Jeff? Are there any books that you found really inspirational on your journey?

I've got a couple. I've got the Compound Effect by Darren Hardy, My mantle, which is very much based around the compound effect of life. So if you do good things consistently.

And like day after day.

Yes. Having a scale. If you've got a scale and you've got a grain of sand going on the scale, on the good side, it doesn't need to be a brick, it just needs to be a grain of sand. But eventually the grain of sand pushes the scale down in the favor of the good stuff. So I think in health, in everything that you do, really, it's that compound effect. And that's a great book by Darren Hardy. And the other book I've got that I really like is the 8020 rule, where I don't know if you guys have read the 8020 rule, but it's never going to be perfect. So don't wait. And was there ever going to be A perfect time when we could announce Project 1,000,000. Probably not if it's only 80%. You mustn't let that hold you back. You've got to take risks, calculated risks, but you don't have regrets of things that you haven't done. So a business or a life perspective, you've got to be a risk taker, I think, not be risk averse.

I think that is a brilliant. I have read that book quite a long time ago, but I completely agree. And I think it's about progress, not perfection, isn't it? It's about moving forward. And yeah, I think that's a great principle. Now, the closing tradition we have on this podcast is to ask the previous guest to ask the next guest a question. Now they ask that question without knowing who it's going to be delivered to. In this instance, you actually have a question from your old friend Nick Butter, but he didn't know he was asking you guys this question when he asked it. So I think Claire has got the question from Nick Butter and this is.

A great one for you both as well. So Nick Butter has asked, what do you want your legacy to be?

I think with the mental health scene in the uk, probably around the world, I think it's very broken and I think there's a lot of help that people need and I think the system needs to change. So I think if there's anything I would love to do, it's disrupt the market and disrupt the sort of charity sector from a mental health perspective that we come in. And waiting lists shouldn't just be a norm. And I think at times people just accept the fact they'll be on a waiting list for six months. That just shouldn't be happening. Making sure that there's bespoke service for people to get the support that they need that's bespoke to them and not just putting you in front of any old therapist. I really, personally, I think my dream of Big Moves is to disrupt how the mental health, health sector works so that when people in 20 years time say that they're going to therapy, it's oh cool, have a good session tomorrow or next week. And waiting lists and people being left to their own devices or not ticking a certain box that means they're not bad enough to get the support that they need. I would love Big Moves to be a bit of a name that people go, oh, these guys changed the way that things work. Bit of a lofty.

Mine's probably a bit more simplistic. I think my legacy is Chloe And Tiffany, my two daughters. I want to parent them for as long as I'm around in a way that when I shed my mortal coil that they become the best parents and the best human beings that they can be. So they are basically my legacy.

Amazing. As a dad of two girls, I'm loving that. But I think you're doing an amazing job of inspiring these two young ladies. Obviously only can you witness it with one, but I have zero doubt that you're doing an incredible job doing that. One last question I've got to ask you because I know Fault World, there's going to be things to come down the pipeline that look amazing too. What's next?

We've got a very big project which we're not allowed to talk about. How would you describe it? Because I've got a big mouth, a.

Big goal and I think again around community and bringing people together and just getting the conversation around mental health out there a little bit more. So a big event that is. But also We've got Project 15 that we launched last year, which number 15 is our family number. So dad's hockey number, every club he went to. I'm born on the 15th of October and basically anywhere we go we seem to have number 15 follow us. So we launched Project 15 last July with the concept being to raise £15 million within the next five years. That's our big sort of financial goal and I think it's a bit of a risk kind of putting a financial goal out there and it's not something that charities normally do. But we're very up for the challenge and I think by putting a number on it, we have something to aim towards and we have a target and a goal. So that keeps us focused.

I think that's absolutely incredible and I think as you guys well know, the more specific you get when it comes to your goal setting, the more chance you are of God of hitting it. And Even if it's 14 and a half million or 12 million, it would still be an unbelievable achievement. But I have zero doubt that you guys will hit that. As somebody that lost my brother in law to the suicide, so as somebody that has seen the devastating impact that that can have on the family, I think what you guys are doing is absolutely incredible. I think it's inspiring. So thank you so much for and I look forward to continuing to see the incredible success and thank you for coming on the Business for Endurance podcast. So what did you make of the interview with Chloe and Jeff Smith from Big Moose?

I love the way they literally just Go out there and do it. Jeff talked at the end about kind of books he'd read, and in terms of 80, 20 rule, whatever, but actually just going out there and like you said, taking risk and doing it because there's never a perfect time to go and do some good or just go and do it. So that, for me was a massive takeaway. I think that was great. What about for you?

I think there was just so many brilliant coaching principles within that episode. Whether it was the controlling, the controllables, whether it was who, not how, whether it was setting big goals, like eating the elephant one bite at a time, whether it was, like you said, the 1820 principle of just progress, not perfection, the power of stepping outside your comfort zone, because that's where the magic happens. I just think there was so much in that episode really inspiring. Father and daughter that have obviously done some incredible things, but amazing what they're doing for the community and helping people with particularly the suicide prevention stuff. Absolutely brilliant. And I think we definitely need to do a charity bike ride to help them from the hub and spoke in Rutland, maybe via Fourth Discipline in Birmingham, and then finish up at Big Moose for a coffee and cake in Cardiff. That just sounds like a lot of fun.

That would be amazing and very doable. So we should do that. Maybe we should make it more challenging. But just putting an idea out there.

We could do a lap of Wales, finish up in Cardiff.

We could, yeah. Yeah.

I just think they're absolutely brilliant and I think what a fantastic couple of people to have in the community, supporting people that are going through tough time and inspiring through what they do in terms of whether it's climbing Everest, Kilimanjaro, all of those sorts of amazing things, but also coaching people to do better and raising such money from aid causes. I thought they were absolutely brilliant.

And I think what really shuns me, for me me is also resilience. We talk a lot about resilience, but at the age of 15, being able to go and climb Kilimanjaro and probably not knowing very much about what that looks like and the fact that Chloe now will coach and mentor people and being able to use those skills is built up, I think is absolutely amazing. And I love the amazing quote about, I think was from Jeff's mentor about every day you're writing your own eulogy. And I think that is really something to hold on to in terms of just going out there and doing it.

And I love the fact that Jeff's legacy, the impact he has on his family and he's clearly having a phenomenal impact on them. Yeah, no, absolutely brilliant episode. And it reminds me of there's so many good principles around goal setting in there that it just makes me think that we've got a the Limitless Life workshop that we talk about with goal setting and what goal setting should look like and how you create a system around that goal setting. So I'll put it in the show notes, but if you want to watch that, it's, it's a webinar that we do regularly, but it talks you through that process of setting incredible goals and I think it ties in really nicely. I think even within it, I'll even use the terminology of eating an elephant bite at a time. It'll be. The link will be in the show notes and it's also on the trusted team if you want to go through what is a three hour workshop of goal building. But another awesome episode and actually an incredible episode to open season seven.

First one.

Yeah, first episode in season seven. And what an absolute amazing episode it was with so many great principles. Thank you. And I know we've got some awesome guests lined up for the rest of season seven, so it's going to be a lot of fun, isn't it?

Absolutely.

Keep up the good work, Claire. And for everyone else, keep on training. You want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of endurance podcast? We don't ask for you to pay for us. We don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple, give us a five star rating because it shows us you care. And if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that. But we really do appreciate it it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.