Cycling with Saint Piran Feat. Ricci Pascoe

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding.

And I'm claire fudge and this is.

The tribe athlon podcast.

And what you're actually doing, you're not buying a jersey, you're giving that young person between 18 and 29, you're giving that opportunity to race at the highest level.

That was Ricky Pascoe and this episode is Cycling with St Piran. Hey, Clare, how are you doing?

Yeah, good, thank you. Have you had a good weekend of training?

No, I haven't had a good weekend. I've had a good weekend of training. My bladder. No, not my bladder, my liver. Well, my bladder as well. I was at Twickenham with some friends and some clients for watching the England Wales game, and it involved far more drinking than I'm used to at the moment. So it totally. Other than a swim on Saturday morning and I got out on the bike on Friday afternoon, it totally ruined my.

Training for a weekend point of view.

But what about you? Have you had a heavy training weekend?

I have had big. Yeah, big training weekend. But it makes you. I think it makes you realize, doesn't it, like, when you. When you do drink alcohol, like actually how you feel afterwards. And I think if you're training a lot and you're not, you're not drinking alcohol, you realize how much it kind of really, really affects you.

And it's not just how it affects you physically, mentally. I mean, I could have gone for a run on Sunday morning, I could have got in the pool, but mentally, I just couldn't be asked. So it affects you in more ways than just physically. But I did try, and it's extremely.

Stressful for your body to train in that state as well.

I was worried that I would potentially pull a muscle running, because, of course, you're dehydrated, and so that's why I didn't run. But this morning I did do a tough swim and I probably sweated out some of the Twickenham's finest into the pool, so that was good. So what does. When you say you had a long training weekend, what does that look like.

For you at the moment?

So I'm just kind of in a bit of a building phase at the moment in my training, so. And it's quite interesting, isn't it, like, coming out of. Coming out of, like, two years of COVID actually kind of being back in more of a progressive phase in training rather than this kind of holding pattern that we were all in. So I think I just forgotten, like, what it feels like to be sort of in that building phase. Um, but certainly the weekends because a lot of my work is done during the week. So my weekends are probably for a lot of athletes is most of my sort of heavy training. Um, so I usually do a long turbo session. I very rarely go out on my bike these days. Um, so a long turbo session and then a brick run and then I do a university squad swim in the afternoon. So it's. I think it was about five hours on Saturday, so it was quite a big, quite a big day.

So you've knocked out a whole triathlon on Saturday and then do you go back for more on Sunday?

Absolutely.

All three again?

No, not all three, no. I had. Well, since my, since my sort of ankle injury and recovery from it after the Ultra, we'd really sort of backed off running. So I've literally just got back into running now. So luckily my ankle's feeling pretty good and after a few knocking out a few nine and a half hour sleeps as well over the weekend, that was, that was a bonus. But that's amazing. Yeah, that's just amazing to be able to sleep that much now.

I know from talking to you in the past, you and technology don't always get on well. So I want to talk a little bit about the pros and cons of technology, but chatting to you about how your, your turbo trainer experience is totally the opposite to me. So you don't use Zwift or anything like that, do you? So tell me a little bit about how you train with and without technology.

Well, I think, I think originally, like when I first started kind of running and things, I didn't have anything and I just loved being outside and I think I was very much guided by myself and knowing how fast I was going or not how fast I was going or what I felt like, you know, you were talking about kind of drinking alcohol and actually what you felt like the next day. So we're very much guided, aren't we? We can be by kind of how our body feels. So I think I've always trained sort of without technology and then when I got kind of more into Ironman, I, you know, got a proper like bike computer and then got myself a watch to run with. Actually the watch was the last thing that came. I didn't. I used a bike computer but never used anything for running. And then I started having to be more accountable to a, to a coach and so kind of use kind of more technology. But I hate, I love technology, but I hate it. It always goes wrong, as, you know, on the sand dunes when you Met me with a watch with no battery. But I think that's also taught me and I really, I really do like feel that this has really taken me kind of into the world of like ultra and endurance and being able to psychologically cope with dark moments because I never trained with music, so running, I never run with music ever. Ever. I don't, I can't remember a time I have ever. And then I will sometimes do a long turbo session. It might be two and a half, three hours without any music or no Zwift, no watching anything, no audiobook. Well, you know, I don't read books, but no books or any even listening to a book, no films. And I think there's something, well, one really dull about that. But two, number one is I think psychologically, if you can train yourself in that state and know without anything outside that you can get through a really boring long session or hard session, that you've equipped yourself really well psychologically for a hard day out racing endurance.

I think you're right. I think that although I often wondered how, because I do train as, you know, I run and cycle listening to books. If I'm on my own on the Turbo Trainer, I'll be watching a documentary whilst, you know, having Zwift going on as well. So I'm totally the opposite end of the scale. But of course, when you're, when you're racing, whether it be an Ironman, whether it be an ultramarathon, you know, you might be out there for 10, 11, 12, 13 hours, no music, no nothing, and yet I've never had the adrenaline of the racing has never caused me an issue. But perhaps there's something that, you know, you maybe need the more mindful experience of when you're training. Whereas I crave, I want to know that I'm kind of learning something. So that's, that's what I crave while I'm doing it. But. But I do think probably you're more focused on your training than I would be. I probably can zone out of my training, which in some ways is good because you're zoning out of the pain and the boredom and other ways you may be not quite hitting the numbers because you're kind of more caught up.

With something that's going on.

But that's probably why you've had the successes that you've had compared to mine.

I think, you know that there's something else to that as well, though, isn't there, in terms of like, again, you know, some of the athletes that I work with that are quite new on the scene of, like, triathlon, are so focused on all their technology that if it goes wrong in a race, what are you going to do? People panic. Like, actually, the last race I did, that was a bit of disaster anyway. But my last 70.3 that I did at the end of, the end of last year, I mean, everything went wrong that possibly could have gone wrong. But you know what, one of the things that did happen is my Garmin bike computer. It was so, like, bumpy, it literally like crashed. I don't mean it came off, it literally just crashed and then wouldn't come back on again. And that was halfway through the bike leg. And as you know, from kind of a Bolton course, it's, you know, actually keeping a really consistent power is really key because it's so hilly. So I fiddled around with it for a bit and I thought, this is crazy. I'm fiddling around with something that may not even come back on and now I'm wasting time fiddling around with it and it's dangerous because I'm down on my TT bars trying to fiddle around, you know, and actually I thought, I know enough to go by how I feel. I mean, I was feeling shocking at the time, which was true. I was feeling shocking. And probably if I'd looked at my power and it had worked, it probably would be nowhere near where I was meant to be. So I think we do. We can often go off our own feel. We kind of know we train enough to know. Probably if you train in power, where your power is likely to be, I would say, I don't know. Is it the same for you? Would you know, if you turned off your, your bike computer, would you know where you were in terms of power?

Yeah, I like to think I would. I actually don't. I'm not very good at looking at my power data while I'm cycling. I tend to cycle more on feel. And running, I tend to run more. I don't tend to unless I'm got a specific training session to do. I tend to run more on feel as well. So I'm not very good at looking at data, but I am very good at getting stressed by technology. And I remember when you're, when you're. When your watch packed up, I said to you, God, that drive me crazy. Because that would mean I couldn't load up to Strava. And, you know, if it doesn't go on Strava, it doesn't.

It didn't happen.

And in fact, the year before. So when we Were supposed to be doing the Ark 50 in 2021 because we. Cause it got postponed because of COVID I went and did my staying local ultra. So I ran. I think I ran 52 miles from the house. And I paused my watch at some point, I think when I went into the house and into the toilet and then came out and I suddenly realized I'd run like 100 meters up the road. And I was like, oh, I haven't hit go again on my watch. So I tried to hit go, but because it was. I was about 40 miles into my run, it was freezing cold, it was snowing all day. I hit save. So then I was like. And I got really angry on the next. It probably took me about five miles to sort my head out of, like, I've now got two Strava files. It's not one complete file. And I was like, this is totally ridiculous.

I'm.

You know, it's total nonsense. I'll still run 52 miles. And it turns out, actually you can stitch two Strava files together and have one complete file anyway.

So it was the fact you knew how to do that as well?

Well, I didn't. Somebody. Somebody in my cycling posse told me.

But.

But the fact. But the fact that, like, I remember chatting to. To Sid about it on the podcast, going, it's ridiculous. You know, I was so cross about for a while and it was like, no, forget about this.

Sort your head out.

This is nonsense. So, because it's really easy to get stressed about technology. You know, this gadget's not talking to this gadget and oh, God, I just want to go and ride. And yet my power meter is not talking to my. Some Garmin or whatever it is. And so I think as much as I love technology and I love a lot of the elements it gives me, it also is very easy to let it stress you out, which ultimately is taking away from the magic of it.

I think, really, isn't it?

And also I think learning about, learning about yourself as an athlete, like learning about how you feel. Because there are, you know, plenty of athletes, aren't they, professional athletes that do certain sessions without watches or actually, you know, their bike might be the key thing they look at, but actually they don't run with a watch.

Or in the episode after this is the Morgan Pearson interview and he. The amazing half marathon times he's done in the last couple of years, which actually I meant to ask him about when we interviewed him and we got. We talked about too much other stuff. But yeah, he didn't have a watch for either of those runs. He's running all of that on feel and just racing the people around him, which. Which is a. And Chrissie Wellington was famous for training and racing on feel rather than on data. I think it's good to know what your body is doing rather than looking at the data. But then equally, I think there's a flip side to say, look, I knew from this Oura ring that I was in a state of disrepair yesterday after drinking too much at the rugby. And also that the day after the ultramarathon.

So you would have known that anyway, surely, waking up.

Well, yes, you can confirm how you felt.

Yes, I suppose it's confirmation bias, isn't it? Yes, I felt crap.

And the ring tells me, if it.

Said that you were meant to feel amazing, would you have gone and trained? And actually, that is a good question, as in, you know, if it said you're in a fantastic place, you've had an amazing sleep, what would you have done?

Well, it's a good question, isn't it? Maybe I might have been tempted to go, but it did tell me that, because, you see, you know, I thought it would tell me, oh, you've had a bad night's sleep. But it told me my body temperature was all out of kilter with normal. It told me my heart rate was out of kilter with normal. So you're like, actually, I probably would have gone and pushed out a run if I hadn't looked at it. I might have done and that might have been detrimental. You know, I think I was just better off.

Yeah.

Take taking a day off and coming back to it, fit and healthy today. So, yeah, but it's an interesting. Actually, one of the pieces of advice that I think it was.

I think.

It was Dr. Charlotte Edelston, the sleep scientist, who we're going to get back on. I think she said the best way to use things like sleep trackers is to look at the data, not look at the data first thing in the morning because it influences how you feel. It's kind of look at it at the end of the day because you've then got on and done your day based on feel. But it's still good to have the information. But I think it was her. It was either her or Phoebe Liebling, the nutritionist.

I can't remember.

But anyway, let's dive into the interview with Ricky Pascoe, Former professional cyclist and mentor to gold medal winning Olympians and tour cyclists. Ricky Pascoe founded the St Pierron Professional cycling team Six years ago, St Pierron, being the patron saint of Cornwall, shows that their roots and heart are very much themed around Cornwall. But they now have a continental team that allows them to compete with the big boys in races like the Tour of Britain. So I wanted to chat to Ricky about the origins of St Piran, why the Cornish routes are so important to what is now really a national team, how they help cyclists from the grassroots up right up to the pros, and also how he funds a team that doesn't want a single deep pocketed sponsor because when you look at their kit, there really isn't any sponsorship on it at all. It is just really great looking kit. So anyway, I know you're going to really enjoy the interview and understand more about the kind of different tiers of cycling in this interview with Ricky Pascoe. Today's show is brought to you by Precision Hydration, who help athletes personalize their hydration and fueling strategies so they can perform at their best. They work with a long list of elite athletes, athletes like three time Olympian and former guest of the podcast Eilish McColgan as well as many other athletes. PH tested my sweat and it turns out I'm a much saltier sweater than average and I would benefit from drinking a much stronger electrolyte drink than you'd normally get off the shelf. They also tested Sid, who actually loses about half as much sodium as I do when I sweat, which just goes to show how much you can personalize your approach to hydration. Check out their free online sweat test@precisionhydration.com to get some personalized advice. Or like Sid and I, book yourself in for one of their advanced sweat tests. As a listener of the show, if you use the discount code TRIBATHLON15, you can get 15% off your first order at the checkout. So, Ricky, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm really looking forward to chatting to you, particularly about Saint Perrin, which I see a lot about, but I want to learn more about it. But before I, before I kick off, do you want to tell us a bit about your background and how you got into cycling, your cycling history and also. Is it Ricky?

Richard?

I kind of.

I see both.

Oh, Charlie, thank you very much. And listen, anybody that does a reach out, it's really good to sit down and have a conversation. And podcasts are getting really, really interesting these days. They're great to listen to the car and whatever and triathlon is quite close to my heart. I'll Come on to that a little bit later on in the story because I don't really see disciplines in sport. You just see top sportsmen, middle sportsman, you know, grassroots sportsman, men, women, whatever. And you know, and everybody, everybody is a top level sportsman because when they're trying in that run or the swim or the cycle, if they're giving their all, that's exactly the same as a world class person. So I often don't differentiate. So, you know, I was actually looking forward to doing this because I do get a few requests. Okay. A little bit about myself. So Richie is. Yeah, was my, my nickname for our. From racing on the continent. How did that happen? I played a lot of football and rugby at county level. Cornwall's a very strong rugby county. And back in the day kicking a leather ball around quite, quite a lot, you know, knees start to suffer. So my father was a handy amateur cyclist, started cycling and then within a year became an international racing cyclist. So that was it. Bye bye ball sports. And the really great thing about being an individual within sport, as you well know, is that for every 100% of effort that you put in, you get it back yourself. Right? So that's the reward. And so the racing career took off subsequently. Had a really bad accident at 15, 16, unfortunately, I'll get hit by a car and you know, you lied in a hospital bed and do you think, you know, do I want to continue? The answer was yes. I'm not sure whether it's parental pressure perhaps from my mother who kind of didn't want me back on the bike, but I managed to get back on the bike at 18, by which time my father persuaded me that education was a great thing. Right. So you could go and study and still train. So I bought into it like that. And then the category system with road racing was, you know, I went from the lowest category at the time, which, which was a third category, to effectively elite in a season which is not that common. And yeah, so I went through university and then packed my bags, went to France, started racing and I had the pleasure of seeing every gutter in France, Belgium, Holland, every terrible mountain, you know, in Spain. And you know, basically I, I classify myself as a journeyman. I, if there's a sprint, I was fifth. You know, it's a really good climbers, there's nine climbers, I was 10th, you know, and if there's time trialists, there's seven. Good, I was eight. So I had a pretty good grounding in most of them. And the mistake that I made was, was moving Straight from the UK to live in a race in France at top level, and I turn myself a pretty quick rider into a donkey.

Within.

The space of like, you know, you ride 85 races your first season and you wonder why you got no gas. You know, it's, it's. I don't know. So my journey with cycling was quite an upward pathway. Seeing some great teams and bits and pieces. But do you know what? This is a theme that will come onto in a minute. Seeing lots of mistakes along the way, but you can only see what is mistake, I guess with some age and experience. Can you try A bit of hindsight's wonderful, isn't it? So, you know, if we race forward to one of your questions, you know, why St. Pyrrha and how did it come about or whatever when it was set up six years ago? I think I've had a lifetime of seeing how things. Not to say that I'm wrong, but, you know, there's a lot of mistakes that I've seen over time. My only claim to fame is that I've mentored gold medalists and tour winners and whatever. And you know what, that sounds like a really great job, doesn't it? You know, mentor. Oh yeah, great. And really what you're doing, you're babysitting Charlie. So, you know, you know, your athlete, he's a very, put it in context. I was responsible for athletes intellectual, emotional, spiritual, financial and emotional well being. So you're basically their dad. So in that process, before we come.

On to Sampira and sort of where you're heading, what was the highlight of your own cycling career?

Oh, there's many, there's many. So you race in this country and I did some great races in the country and you know, everybody will always say, you know, put your hands over the line and you in the air. And everybody remembers that, don't they? They always, they always sort of point to that. So, yeah, pretty good at some crit racing and doing some national, a race series in this country which were called Star Trophies back in the day and stuff like that. But I guess getting to France, being on a, on a really great team and you know, you're in the break, there's 10 miles to go and we had leaderboards, you know, nothing like radios, leaderboards and you know, and it said something like 45 seconds was the gap and we're in a pretty big race and there's a few TV cameras there and bits and pieces and there's, and there's like 10 of us and we're doing 32 mile an hour, we can't spin the gear anymore. So you think, I am going to get top 10 in a really big race and there's some good names in this. And all of a sudden the board comes up after three miles and it's like the gaps down to like 24 seconds. And you think what you know, and then suddenly within two miles, you get caught by a rider. And as I turn right, there's a little tap on my shoulder and it's Bernardino straightening his little cotton cap and saying, hello, roast beef. I'm literally just riding to us. And we couldn't go any faster. There was no more revs. We were at maximum, maybe 32, 34 mile an hour, you know, maximum revs. And it just cleared off up the road. And you say, what was the moment? It was at that moment I retired and I'd probably only been there six months, but you get that kind of. And what was really good about a patron of the, of the peloton was that so he won it and I, I think I pulled fourth, you know, so I'm off the podium. Great. Worst position you can get, you know, and I'm kind of now getting changed to bits and pieces. I think they gave me some flowers for, I don't know, for being the prettiest boy on the day. I can't remember quite what it was for, really. So you get some flowers and you get some. A bit of money. But he literally came up and said, hey, roast beef, if you ever need a help with accommodation or anything in cycling, kind of, you know, give me a shout sort of thing. Charlie, what was clever about that, you know, he had me eaten out of his pocket for the rest of his life. It showed humility from a guy and yet he could, he could absolutely, you know, wipe the floor with any of us. And those sort of memories are the lasting memories from, from, from racing on the continent, you know, and it's days of being, you know, 115th in a line in a gutter, you know, that sort of thing. Or you write an individual time trial that would have put me in the top five in the UK in a prologue, only to finish 32nd. So I think it's the, it's the sharp realization that I'm not going to be, you know, where I thought I would have dreamt or I would have liked to be. And I think that. And you know, your podcasts are very good. I mean, I've listened to them. So for me, my life has felt throughout phases of my life is failure. So if you go to France, you think, I'm going to turn pro, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and do the rest of it, and you actually find out you're actually mediocre by some good standards, it feels like failure. And you carry that failure forward. And then, you know, other things can happen in your life outside of your sport which influence your sport, and they may feel like failure as well. So, you know, there's a collection of experiences that you gain along the way. So, you know, I've listened to it on a podcast. My defining moment would be situations like that.

Yeah, okay.

Or winning something with the team, you know, traveling all night across back from Italy to France, you know, and you. You take it to great money, you've won something and you think you're brilliant. The next morning, the team gets you up at 8 o' clock because the junior team want to go out with you. They're absolutely killing you. Good times are bad. Good times about. So now I started seeing.

I mean, I spent a lot of time down in Cornwall, as you know, and I started seeing the Saint Perrin brand, probably initially in your cafe, actually, I think, you know, probably that's where.

I first saw it.

It's really striking, Kit. It's like, well, what is this Saint Perrin? And then I sort of gradually learned more and more about it. So tell me a little bit about the history, why you've set up Saint Perrin for those people that don't know what it is. Tell us a bit about what it is and then why, why, why you've.

Created it.

Again, if you. So I've been involved with professional teams for. For 30 years in various ways. You know, I've been on management, I've DS'd, I've helped organize, you know, and there's been various organizations I've been involved with. And I. I guess it got six years ago, and I actually thought, I don't want to see an organization run in a particular way. And so, so. And in fairness, you know, a friend of mine, you know, jtl, John Turner Locke from Sky, who had a really rough time at sky, was going through a very, very hard time. You know, I kind of rang him up and said, look, let's have a coffee and whatever. So to kick it, you know, what was wrong with pro sport or whatever. So the idea about Zimperion was something very pure, something you could identify with an area, something whereby sponsors wouldn't influence the way that maybe riders would have to Ride. Hold that thought. Very unique. Make the organization rider centric and prove that you actually care about the riders. So that was the kind of a noble idea around sorts of Pyrran. So you've either got to have deep pockets, huge ego, be slightly mad or actually, and I actually, I have a euphemism, I call it gas syndrome, where you actually give a sh. Kind of one t about the rider. You really must care about a rider, you know, and how can you care about rider? So you've then got to look at, you've got to look at a lot of factors to put a great team together. So I always say in the simplest interview I ever give, my job is to put a rider on a start line in great races. And that involves the best kit we can get, the best bikes we can get, try and look at the best wheels and bits and pieces where we haven't been influenced by outside influences. So what happens in pro sport, Jones, you're probably well aware, is that, you know, you can be riding a race if it's got TV coverage. They'll say to some young riders, right, I want you to ride at the front in the first couple of hours, get some coverage. Well, that's great, that's great. But what it does, it means that that young rider never ever gets, never ever gets a ride. He never ever gets, he never ever gets his position. You know, he sacrificed. So how can you run an organization whereby you're, you're being, you're being sacrificed. So you know, there were a lot of notions in there about how we, you know, look after riders, make, make, make the, the journey for them easy. You know, how do we put a race program together, how do we develop people as individuals, what framework do we put in? So if you, if you like, the idea was take the best out of all the teams I've seen over the years, but kind of cross out or ignore all the, maybe all the bad points and do it in such a way that people could identify with a team or a region. As you well know, it's the patron saint of Cornwall, the patron saint of tin mining and just create something that's really cool so that you might want to wear the jersey or the leisure clothing, you know, down the pub. So the skill was to make it so that it was desirable without being overstated.

Brilliant, you know, and describe to me the, the sort of structure of Saint Perrin because it, it, you've got, you know, a high end cycling team, but right way through to the grassroots, haven't you? So explain Those sort of tiers and how, how you've built St Pierron around helping cyclists at each of those levels.

So you're going to say, you know, what's wrong with world class? You know, whether it's triathlete, swimming, cycling, running, you know, I think we can all have a long program. In fact, there's your content for the year. You know, what's wrong with, you know, you know, so my take on it was, let's not just talk about developing riders, let's, let's evidence it. Let's just all say, oh, we are here to help develop young talent and help them on their own road journey. Let's actually do that. So a little bit about the tears in cycling kind of makes. Makes sense. I find it confusing and I've been involved in the game for, you know, a fair few years now. So you've got World Tour level and, you know, the listeners will be very familiar with, you know, Ineos and Quick Step. And so essentially there's 20, 22 really good teams in the world and they're operating on a budget of anywhere north of 20 million a year to run a professional team. And they are billboards for the sport, you know, and away they go. And they will have some development notion within them. Beneath that you've got Conti and Pro Conti, which I consider to be the same class. That's where we sit, the men's team. So we can actually race with the big guys in certain races, the Tour example being a notable example for ourselves. So we will operate and nobody's ever going to give you a straight answer, but I will. We're operating on about a quarter of a million budget in terms of cash. This year will be about half a million. So that's the liquid money that's outside of bikes, kit and cars and whatever. So to look at how we compete with World Tour teams, half wheel in against 30 or 40, you know, we're punching above our weight to be on that start line and to start being there. Then beneath that, we were a UK elite team to start with in year one. We kind of went, well, I would say a top domestic team we were to start with in year one and two. We then became an elite team. So there's a slight differentiation between the two. And the elite team is the highest level outside professional cycling license you can get in this country. So as we were promoted or went from an elite to a Conti team, there's a big vacuum in behind the back Charlie. So I've set up a New team this year called 0503 as a direct feeder team. So we don't leave a void or a gap behind. And then I guess more importantly or equal importance. No, I'm going to say it's more important. You know, we started a women's team two years ago, and not because it was greenwashed, because we felt, oh, it's great to be seen to be doing. We actually are very deeply embedded in women's sport and we thought we could start something and follow the same pathways that men have taken. Beneath that, then we have development teams and so on and so forth. Beneath that, we have grassroots organizations where we organize events, get people to come along, ride bikes. You know, right the way down to this year. We haven't launched it yet, but we'll probably have something called Simper and CC where, you know, if you want to wear the jersey and go to a great sportif or, you know, compete your local traffic or whatever, that, that, that's available for you. That kind of. I'm not going to call it a club structure because I don't want to give you a hot potato. But I think that, you know, a volunteer base in sport is not sustainable. You know, we cannot, in any form of sport, keep relying on volunteers. So clubs and volunteers are going to find it very, very hard to keep up momentum over the next, you know, three, five, 10 years. It's probably another subject in its own right. There's probably another podcast in its own right. That one. So what?

So to give people an idea, you say, so that Continental team wouldn't be racing in the Tour de France, but what races would that be? Would you. Would we be seeing those teams in that? We might, you know, if you're not an avid cyclist, people might still have be aware of.

Yeah, so. So we're excluded from, you know, the Tour de France, Tour of Spain and Tour of Italy, you know, because we, we don't hold that World Tour license and there are a few other races that we would struggle. We would struggle to get in because there are bigger, better teams and they sit on a higher license category. But we are. So the Tour of Britain is the fourth most watched cycling race in the world, you know, so believe it or not, you know, that is in terms of the outreach, that is, you know, look at the quality of the field that come and ride the Tour of Britain. You know, there was Julian Alaphilippe, Cav, Wild Van, Art Royal, household names. So, you know, we're in the mix. And I guess the Tour series is very Very popular in the UK as well. That's professional cycle racing on ITV4, usually around May and June time in a big city center. So you know, your listeners, we had to come along and see that happening. And this year I think we start in again a bit like the Tour of Britain. You start in Scotland and kind of work your way all the way down this year, unlike last year where we started in Penzance, which was amazing.

And how was it starting in Penzance and starting in Cornwall as obviously a Cornish team.

Oh, what's your dream in and around Trafford? What? I know it's, it's an interview. So what would you dream about in triathlon? What, what would tick your boxes for yourself?

Well, I suppose it's, it's, it's, it's getting to Kona would be, would be my dream.

And, and what else, what else could enhance Kona? What, you know, what would make it really good for you?

Well, I suppose getting on the podium at Cody, at Kona. But that would be, that's a, that's a dream probably way beyond this lifetime.

Well, so put it in perspective. You have, you know, the Cornish team. I'll come on to the fact that we have two Cornish riders born in Cornwall, but currently we have no Cornish riders resident in Cornwall. We've got 16 riders throughout the whole of the UK. Come on to that in a minute. But you've got a Cornish team starting a world class event against world champions, you know, with, with no sponsors on the jersey, with a really cool brand starting in their own county. I mean, you just, you probably couldn't write that. And how did it go? 210,000 people saw that stage and there were flags and banners and it was, it was nothing short of phenomenal. And I've got to say I expected us to go over the border in Devon and it all stopped. You know, I expected it to be day one, a big hurrah. And then I thought, you know, never ending silence. And it didn't, it just continued. It literally, it just continued. I had world tour teak directors coming up to go, man, you get more support than we get in Belgium. That's very poor pressure of a top ds. But you know, we had Cornish flags in Scotland and we've just been very lucky. You know, people like yourself that do podcasts, that keep people informed, you're the lifeblood and the currency of what we do. And it just seems as that, you know, we've engaged a fan base because we're just honest, we've got provenance which is a big word for, you know, we're authentic, you know, the riders. We're very unusual. We employ a performance director, which at our level is unheard of. We employ nutritionists. So we're really focused on getting more out of the riders rather than saying, what happens in sport is you go out and buy a better rider from another team. That's the world of sport all over. Right. And by and large, we're trying to create our own. And when an athlete reaches the maximum of their potential, so if they become a brilliant UK domestic pro, but they're going to go no further, we want to keep them in St Pierron and that's a key difference for ourselves. It's got to be about sustainability. And I always say to my young riders, it's all about the white stuff. And you're supposed to say, what is the white stuff? And it's the smiles, the teeth. I want to see. I want to see the teeth, I want to see the smiles. It's like traffic. And it's a bloody brutal sport, excuse my language, you know, it is. Why would you put yourself through all that misery? You know, the training, the dedication, the hours, you know, why would you do it? Well, it's because you want to see that smile, that notion of success for yourself, you know, and that's what we want to capture with our jersey. And if my, if the truth is going out, I might as well give it to you because, you know, we're going to have a mountain bike team next year. Would I love a triathlete? Yeah, I would, I would. I don't think we're solely reserved to our sport. Even if somebody was a world class violin player and they, you know, perhaps maybe they lived in Cornwall, they wanted to get to the top. It's. It's about that pathway with a, with a, with a recognizable brand or mark is what we're about, as opposed to just pigeonholed in ourselves as a cycling team.

Brilliant. And why is it that you so. So you've got this obviously very close affiliation with Cornwall through the name and trying to identify local riders. But equally many of your riders aren't living in Cornwall or originating from Cornwall. So why do you think it's. Explain that sort of Cornish route, but actually a much wider team. But also maybe explain why you think you have seen that affiliation, like, for example, Cornish flags flying in Scotland in the Tour of Britain.

I think the problem with. And maybe you'd like me a little bit by triathlon, and I'm sure it would mirror This, I think the problem with, you know, a team, for example, you know, whatever, you know, let's just not name a manufacturer. But you see it in triathlon and it's like, you know, if there's a team name and it's called, let's try and keep it. I don't know, I'm trying to not pick a real life example, but I don't know, Billy's Bikes, you know, or a manufacturer or whatever, you know, if you. If you set up a name of a sponsor, firstly, there's no affinity with an area. I think that's a mistake. So, you know, whether you love it, Man United, you kind of know where they play, right? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, they'll have players from over the world, but essentially there's that kind of. Or Man City, other teams are available in Manchester, but. So I think it was very important for people to know where they have come from or where they can identify with. So whilst we push, if you like, the coolness of, if you like, of Cornwall, we see ourselves as a national team. And in fact, in 2023, I'm going to try and set up accommodation, start bringing riders from Australia and Canada, New Zealand and America to the uk. So I'd like to think that we are actually international because we're custodians, Charlie. We're custodians of the sport and custodians of this planet. We don't own an area necessarily. We just need to say what's good about an area. So I think our success is saying we represent a region, but really it's about a brand loyalty to. Perhaps the way that we're doing things is more to the point, which is why we'll see flags in Scotland that follow us. I mean, you're always going to get supporters. You'll have a Man United supporter that lives right next door to the Arsenal Tottenham brand. I'm sure.

Probably most of them.

Yeah, true, I use a posh word, but we try to be ubiquitous. So, you know, we don't favor, you know, Bartley's bank or hsbc. We don't favor wanting to sponsor or whatever, because that's very limiting, I think. But what it has made my job very hard as an initial sale. So you're quite a clever business. Right, so if I came to you in year one and said, look, I want to set up this bike team, it's about an area, there's no advertising on the jersey, how long does that conversation last?

Well, that's exactly what I was. My next Question was going to be, you know, the first thing you spot is this. These brilliantly. You know, they look really good, the cycling jerseys, you know, just pretty much all black with some pyramid written on them. And yes, there is no branding. And you look at it compared to all of the other team jerseys that I wouldn't personally want to wear, but I would wear some Pyren kit. So why, why did you stick to a no sponsor on the jersey principle?

So am I sending you a discount code where you can buy online then?

Well, I think a discount code would be an excellent idea for me and for our listeners. So we'll put a discount code in the show notes if you.

Well, I tell you what, I tell you what, there is no discount code because what you do and you're actually contributing to the team. But, you know, if a listener does, you know, want to get that over the line and they do buy jersey, I'll send them a free bubble hat. So if they personally Contact well, they're 25 pound, right. So they're great. They are well known, you know, and you know, we just joked about this. All right, we just joked about this in. But we survive because somebody has said, actually, I really like this and what you're actually doing, you're not buying a jersey, you're giving that young person between 18 and 20, 30, I think. Do we have any riders over 30? No, we don't. This year, 18 and 29, you're giving that opportunity to race at the highest level. That's what you've bought. It's not about St Pierre. You have actually put that rider on the road and if we don't ever move sight of that, then I think that is a message of success. Now, whilst we have companies, so we've got ice cream, we've got cider, we've got, you know, range of some licensed products. Where again, those businesses go, they're quite shrewd. Right, so if we're spending half a million pound a year on advertising and you own a, I don't know, pet food company, we would let you have Saint Pyram providing, you know, you know, you follow our brand guidelines or we'd like you have that. And the key thing is that Saint Pyren is saying, we are interested in sport, we're not just talking about, about it. Our women get exactly the same deal as the men, which is at their level, unheard of. So basically, if I go into a boardroom in two years time and the CEO says, do you treat the men and women exactly Same, I can say yes. So the women will get accommodation, bikes, kit, every team at the women's level. Currently, in most cases, the women are paying for the kit. Really? Yeah. So you know, when you stop and buy a Saint Perrin T shirt or a hoodie or whatever, you are contributing to sport. So I think it's a way of. And is a logo available in a jersey? Do you know what? There is one position available on our jersey, Charlie. And if you've got pockets with deep friends, it's a million pounds. But it's going on the inside of the collar. Oh, put that around your head and it's going to say, it's in our DNA. So when you buy the merchandise. So there we go. That's the only thing that is available.

And the idea behind not having a brand on the sleeve or on the chest or across the back is exactly what. Why haven't you done that?

So our brand values are a little bit like that. Conversation is, our brand values are. Look at this. This is what we are doing. So if you like, the whole image is about what we're doing. So it's, it's. And do you know what? Initially that's been very hard to. If you, like, put in front of people, but now you've already said yourself you wouldn't go, you wouldn't buy. You probably wouldn't buy, you know, a team jersey from any pro team, but you'd actually consider doing that with us.

Yeah.

Now, for me to get that money out of Charlie Redding's pocket, I must be doing very well because I actually know how tight you actually are.

But it. But it is actually testament to the fact that it is good branding and I like the principles behind that. And so you say about keeping things very even between the guys and the girls, is that. Is that the same with paying riders? Because I think actually I'm right in saying that you pay some of your riders, don't you?

Yeah.

Quite unusual again for a team like yours, isn't it?

So I always go on record of saying this because there's too much smoke and mirrors, you know, within sort of cycling. So I pay my senior riders.

And.

I think this has been the hot potatoes might be another show. I think there should be almost like a standard price list for, you know, if you're an ex World Tour rider and you won this and you want to contribute, you know, you'll get that. If you're an up and coming rider, you'll get that. I think it should be a standard, you know, pay structure like Just like any other industry though, where I find it really hard. And this I'm going to appeal to, to your listeners as well. My under 23s do not get paid. And what I struggle with or dislike about our sports. So here we are, you've got a young, young guy, for example, he's trained 20. Look, I don't have to tell you triathletics, you're mad, right? I mean your standard training week is probably 20 hours swimming, so what a psych is talking about. But you know, our guys are a minimum of 20 hours a week plus racing. So you imagine you're 20 hours a week, so you're already tired, you're living at home. It's the bank of mum and dad, so you can't necessarily earn any money and you're at home. And Everybody else between 18 and 23 has got so many distractions. Success is instant. Instagram, whatever. You know, sport is not like that. The pressure on these young people is phenomenal and our fallout rate is too high. The number of riders that crack is too high. What I would like to do, and I would need help to do it, I'd like to set up an apprenticeship scheme whereby there is a living minimum wage for example, you know, and you can argue what that is. I don't, you know, you know, let's just say they're available for 20 hours a week work because they've been training for 20 hours. Let's just say, you know, that's it was 10 pound an hour, it's 200 pounds a week, 10,000 pounds. Now I would like to see sport in all sports. This is the same as true, this is true of triathlon as well. Right. You know, there's only the top half of 1% that are getting payment at the sport and that you guys are more used to self funding the sport than perhaps cyclists are. I don't know what your entry is for Kona but you know, you know, other mortgages are available and, and what I'd like to see, I'd like to see this, you know, I'd like to see young people get, get, get an apprenticeship scheme, living wedge. But in return, not only do you have to ride a bike, you know, if they want to become a plumber, they must learn that or they want to learn social media. You know, there's got to be a quid pro quo relationship there because you can't have something for nothing. Right?

Yeah, yeah, I think it's a fantastic idea and I think with, with young people. Yeah, it's really difficult, isn't it, you to steal the words of Tony Robbins, if you're going to take the island, you got to burn the boats. So if you want to become a professional sportsman, you've got to go at it hard, haven't you? But financially, that's a huge commitment. Whether it's golf, whether it's triathlon, whether it's cycling, whatever it is, it is a massive, massive commitment. And I can see some, you know, some real sense in that. We talked a bit about grassroots.

Cycling.

What.

What do you do? So for somebody like me who spends a lot of time down in Cornwall, is there like cafe rides and is there a sort of cycling community around the. Around Saint Pyren?

Yep. So. So we. And isn't it great you. You can be challenged on this because you say, oh, I'm developing grassroots for it. And I can bet you if you went to 95 of every protein that they're going to fudge that. We don't. So we already organize a number of events throughout the year and they're coming trial events, so the time trials, you know what that is, where you know you're racing, It's a watch. So that's, that's. We, we already organize hill climbs, you know, which a bit of fun we organize. We already organize a ride with the pro. We do a couple of days sportifs, if you like. We are currently, once a month or every two weeks, we have a ride out from the cafe with various kind of riders. And what's really interesting this year, Charlie, is that Jenny, who runs the women's team, Jenny Balsam, she has put together the Women's Southwest Road Race League, which has been a really cool idea. She's pulled 10 organizers together at various events and we've sort of. I don't know what you pump, primed it. We've put money in a subpiran to reward those people that enter all 10 events. So there might be a couple of road races or crits or whatever. So we've created a league and there's points available. If you turn up, you get, for example, 20 points. If you encourage a fellow competitor to turn up, you get another 20 points. If you win it, you might only get 10 points. So what we've done is we want to change sport rather than just talk about it, but give examples, whereby, you know, we're helping numbers to come up. I mean, your podcast, again, you'll be talking about how to encourage more people into triathlon or our events too expensive or whatever. You know, we We've got to be immersed in the sport if we want to change or have an influence in sport and even have a voice. Yeah, like this. This is a voice. Right. You know, what you're doing is very, very good because you're, you're creating dialogue or the currency of the media is very important when you, when you, when you have discussions like this.

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And Cornwall has a reputation for being tough cycling. You've only got to chat to anybody that's done Land's End to John o' Groats or John o' Groats to Land's End. And it's like, oh, Cornwall. Bear really caught me by surprise. It's tough cycling, but if you read about Cornwall, they're trying to make Cornwall a cycling county. So what are your, you know, what, what are they doing to make Cornwall more accessible for cycling? Because there's a lot of narrow. I mean, it's a beautiful place to cycle. I absolutely love cycling there, but it's also, for some people, not very accessible.

Yeah, I, I, you know, unfortunately as well, kind of with some of my other hats, I get involved in the, you know, the politics of change, for one, you know, whether it be cycling or whatever. And, and I don't want to be a political animal, but the only way that you're gonna. My personal opinion is that cycling in this country, there's three branches to sport is British cycling. There is Cycling UK and the Sustrans. You know, that, that all has to be on one umbrella, one voice. You know, there needs to be some infrastructure change. And, you know, you look at the way London's doing certain things, you think, great. And there's some other cities doing stuff. So has to be some influencer, you know, at a regional level. So we're very lucky. I sit on a couple of regional boards and we've been very proactive in the cycling hub that's coming to corporate, like a, like a Hog Hill type facility. You know, BC's rolling out plans like that. So I think what we've given Cornwall, and I'm involved in a project the next five years, so my job is still on the pro racing side, but we've just set up, interestingly, a community interest company which basically is delivering cycling outcomes. So it's a very posh way of saying we want to influence, if you like, whether it's fitness programs, whether it's encouraging people on bikes. So we want to inspire at the top level, but we also want to be involved in some infrastructure. So I would say at the moment, Coral's leading the way in terms of some of its, you know, some of its infrastructure type stuff. But we're doing that from a slightly privileged position because simply, you know, we've been seen by 180 million people in two years now, and so we've caught people's imagination. But we are nothing special. We're just a big family that understands cycling, you know, with family values and people kind of like that, Charlie, you know, it's kind of what we do.

Yeah, no, it's brilliant. And I think from what I see of Cornwall, it is, it is taking strides. Like, I know your, your cafe is on the Bisso Trail, which is a. Which is one of the. It's probably the only flat cycling in that part, in this part of Cornwall, isn't it? So, so that's, that's really lovely to run and cycle. But they are trying to create more of those, aren't they, through.

The sort.

Of old mining trails?

Yeah, you've got. I mean, you've got to flat. There's some great places in Scotland, Wales and England where, you know, you got beaching, you know, got rid of most of the railway lines and that's an instant win, win. You know, if you get access to an old railway line, you got a flat, flat surface. Hardcore is already there, you know, why wouldn't you, you know, and those railway lines connected towns. So, you know, cycling is. What I don't like is I'm a car driver as well. You know, we're custodians this planet, so we have to, you know, we have to be mindful of, you know, what we're doing to the planet and I don't want to force people onto bikes and, you know, I'm not an eco warrior, but, you know, build it and they will come, you know, and people love it. And there's brilliant examples in Europe, as you, as you well, well aware, you know, you know, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, and it's an implement for, you know, this through sport. Same with triathlon is, you know, if you get people exercising, they feel happier, you know, it's great all round. There's less strain on our health service. It's a win, win. I think cycling is big currency because 76% of the population cycle in one way or come across it in one way or another at the moment. And, you know, we're all custodians of sport. And again, I don't see a difference between draft and, you know, we, we all share in a passion for doing sport of which this is one element in, you know, what you've got, which is a incredibly tough sport. You know, it's, you know, if people don't think it's hard, they ought to, you know, they ought to try it. But it's our, it's our job to make people feel good about sport and giving it a go. Yeah. So, you know, it's, I don't think that's, you know, you're a custodian in the sport. I'm a custodian of sport. So, you know, if we've got those common goals, then the world gets a better place. Because at the moment, you know, you don't have to see the national news. It's just I'm a 57, right, and I've got a 2 year old. So I'm like poacher turned gamekeeper. And so, you know, so, you know, the minute my son was born lower, it's, it's, you know, know I want some, you know, want a safe world for him. You know, I want a great environment. I was probably less mindful of that than, you know, and, and that's, you know, the French have got a great expression and I use a lot of, because I raised in France, a lot of sort of their ways think. But excuse my language here because you're probably going to get the grammar police, you know, tell me off on the program. But they call it raison d'. Etre. The reason to be in your. What's our reason to be? It's, it's, it's to make the planet a better place than we came in on it. And you can do that through sport, mate. You can do it through sport. And what we try in a small way with Pyramid is go. This is our identity, this is how we do it. Let's create pathways, let's make it exciting, let's get everybody involved, you know, and then let's just see where this journey takes us.

Fantastic. And, and so that leads me nicely on to where is, where do you want the journey to? What are the goals of Saint Perrin this year and in the, in the years ahead?

Oh, you're good at this. You want to get a job in radio, mate. So, six years, I gave it six years to make some Pyren sustainable. We just made it, you know, been through a crisis and I was on the start line of tour of Britain and you know what I thought we've done it. I thought, great end of a journey. And you know, what life does to your Charlie. It kind of makes you think oh my God. It's just a start of one life. What have you done to me? You know, it's kind of like so. And my job at the moment, it's incredibly hard because we are, we're investing in a future. And what does that future look like? That future? I always talk about our infrastructure. You know, we want more education, we want, we want the obvious things that you see, you know, more vehicles, we can deliver more events and all the rest of it. But I think the next five years is very, very simple for me. It's how we become the most sustainable, ethical cycling organization that's available. So everybody says, look, what's above you is the Tour de France is above us, right? But if I had a pound for every even elite UK team said, oh, we're in a Tour of France in five years, I probably have enough money to fund that, right? So, you know, there's some longer term, key, you know, racing objectives. I've just signed off on a five year plan and when I started in the first week, you know, I didn't even have a clue where we were going. So, you know, there's a five year plan based in and around inclusion, you know, especially inclusion in lots more sports. Because if we can do mountain biking, we can do tractor, right? Imagine if it was a pro triathlon team in this country, imagine. And it's doable. And it's doable because we've got the infrastructure. So, you know, if there's anybody out there wants to do that and has expertise in traffic, drop me a message. But because we can do a UCI mountain bike team, relatively straightforward because it's not another half a million pounds, because we've got the infrastructure, it's probably a fraction of that. It's probably £100,000 to do it. And it's probably pretty similar with triathlon. And yet you probably say, hang on a minute, I'm an individual athlete, it's costing me. Please don't. I know you've got, you'll have different price tags on this, but it's going to cost each rider probably 2, 3, 4 or 5,000 pound a year to compete in your sport, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the rest I would suggest.

So, you know, if you had, if you had 10 lots of competing at 100,000, we could run a, we could run a pro team. And yet that's what each individual is already putting in. So I think we've got to share. Expertise is the key, very rare idea. I think we've got to make ourselves sustainable. I think We've got to get people that want to see a degree of excellence from this country and we've got to do it in a right, measurable way. And the most important thing. Do you know what, Charlie? We're going to have fun doing it, right? It's got to be fun. It's got to be fun. You know, we're not necessarily here for a long time, you know, so, you know, let's make it fun. Let's not fall out about different, you know, ideologies. You know, let's just sit down and say, where do we want to go? How are we going to get there? And if you do it in that way, I think we've all got a duty to, you know, inspire. And again, as I keep saying, we're custodians to this planet, to sport. So, you know, I would say the five year plan is based around those emotions and there is a written plan that will follow most of those comments.

Brilliant. Well, it's inspiring to listen to and just to sort of wind things up. I can't let you go without asking a question. I ask everybody on this podcast, which is, are there any books that you found particularly inspired? I know sitting in your cafe, there is a number of books that I've seen knocking around. I think Cav's book was there.

I think.

Bradley Wiggins, his book was there. So are there any particular books that, that you found inspiring or you find yourself, you know, giving to young riders to inspire them?

So you, are you a fly on the wall? So you've been to my cafe? I own quite a large store. Upstairs in my store I have a library.

Oh, excellent. Well, next time I'm there, you can show me that.

And then what we do is we lend the books out to people so we copy the ISBN number and we learned about.

Brilliant.

And I'm a bit of a geek. So it's not one book, it's not two books.

Well, I've got a long reading list, but we can keep, we can keep making it longer.

So I would say, and I've been very fortunate. I mean, normally if you came in a cafe eight years ago, you'd have seen 120 jerseys all around the wall. And I've got a connection with all of them, you know, so, you know, there's a connection with Bradley and Cav, and they're all different stories. Some are probably quotable, some are not so quotable, but. But in a nice way. So look, I would say to anybody, educate yourself. Take as many opinions, you know, as you can yourself take inspiration to the people that have done it. There will be some common themes throughout. Try and broaden your knowledge as well, you know, across, you know, just out of your sport as well. I do have some favorites. Can we save that for another? Because that is always like, I'm kind of pigeon holding some of my mates, you know, from the sport, really. But you got to give me, you've.

Got to give me one, you've got to give me one book that would be, that, that would stand out. I was like, you know what, it doesn't even have to be from a cyclist. But I'd like, if you can think of one that you would say, I'm.

Going to give you. I'm going to give you one now, which is totally unexpected. And you will never have anybody say this. I've got all the books in the world on cycling. I've got the motivational stuff, I've got the mindfulness stuff. And do you know what has made me feel. I'm going to get emotional now? I've got a two year old and I have started reading Thomas the Tank Engine books. You've never had a guest say Thomas the Tank Engine. And you know what, you know the messages in those books? When was the last time you read one?

Right?

The message is in those books. You know, get on with people, become a really useful engine, you know, don't be rude. What? You know, and you read it and you think, oh, my God, this is gold. So Thomas the Tank Engine, mate.

Fantastic.

I actually don't know.

We didn't do much Thomas the Tank Engine with our.

We.

I remember doing more Apple Tree Farm.

Actually, but I don't know, you need to, you need to tell me.

Oh, you need to check it out with a 2 year old. Check out Apple Tree Farm.

Google it already. Yeah, with.

Oh, what is it? I can't even remember what the lady farmer is called, but because the male farmer is kind of redundant, he doesn't really do much, he doesn't feature much. It's the farmer's wife that is the. Is the character and the kids. But no, it's brilliant, Ricky. It's been absolutely brilliant chatting to you. Thank you so much. Really, really enjoyed listening to the sort of history and the ethos behind Saint Perrin. I for one will be down there buying some Saint Perian kit to support the team and I'm looking forward to my bobbleheart as well and hold you to that. But yeah, no, it's been really, really brilliant and I'd love to Come and try and join you for some. Some of those cafe rides at some point, if I can keep up. So, yeah, listen, thank you for your.

Time and you know what, you know, the list of. Please get in touch, drop an email, you know, don't be a stranger. And part of our success is our engagement and I'll probably stay up till late in the morning replying to most things, but, you know, that's what we're here to do. You know, we're here to showcase, you know, sport in its best light. And thank you very much for your time today.

Brilliant. Thank you. If you want to find out more about St Pierron, the best place to go to is. Is stpyrrancycling.com and Ricky also has a couple of bike stores, stroke cafes. So if you go to bikechainricky.co.uk or Bikechain Bisso spelled B I double s o e bikechainbisso.co.uk, then you can find out all about them. So, Claire, what did you make of.

The interview with Ricky of St Pyrran?

It was a great story, kind of topped off with. I presume it's a Cornish accent.

I think it was, yes.

Yeah, it was really good to listen to and actually learn a bit more about, like, cycling and the ins and outs of being in a cycling team as well. I think he gave, like, a really quite like, funny account of, like, when he was over in France and him being at the back often and just like. Yeah, that kind of first part of the story I thought was. I thought was really good. What about you? What. What was kind of like the main, the main sort of points that. That kind of. You.

Well, I thought, firstly, I really wanted to understand more about the cycling tears and why. So what I loved about what they've done with St. Pieran is, is the fact that they've got the grassroots stuff, but all the way up to the continental team and the women's team and the development team and so the kind of different layers and understanding, you know, why we wouldn't see Saint Pierron in the Tour de France. And whilst he didn't say it, who knows, maybe in the future that might be. Might happen. But understanding why we don't see them there, but we would see them in the Tour of Britain and kind of that tier structure. So that was, I thought was really interesting and sort of filled in a lot of gaps for me. I also really like the sort of principles behind creating the Cornish connection. Obviously, you know, Cornwall's very close to my heart. But, like, beforehand, I couldn't quite understand why there was this sort of strong Cornish connection. And yet, actually a lot of the cyclists weren't necessarily from Cornwall. And yet when he explained it with sort of Manchester United. Manchester United. And actually you might be a Man United fanboy living in London, that kind of made sense and you kind of buy into the roots of it. So I thought it was really interesting.

I think that kind of leads into that kind of connected sort of group, you know, whether it be like a triathlon club or a cycling club, that kind of real nurturing part of it as well, that you actually look after your, you know, your teammates. And he wants to kind of take it right from, like you say, sort of junior level right up to kind of that professional level. And actually, when you think about a club and you think about sort of triathlon clubs and cycling clubs and things, that's exactly what it is. It's got its roots in a place, hasn't it, as well?

Yeah.

So that kind of feel of that. But. But just. Yeah, like you say, sort of multiple. Multiple layers to it. And I found, like, some of the things you talked about in terms of you. Because you're talking about the clothing and actually looks really nice and. And the kind of the way that they've created a brand, but also that they're never going to have, like, logos and things.

Yeah, yeah, I thought. I think that was really interesting how he's financed it with the branding, with the kind of. So, you know, whether that's ice cream, cider, beer, you know, there's. There's some Pyrran versions of those products and the shirts that, you know, I'm not one for cycling around in a Team Ineos kit, for example. That's just not what I would do. But I would go out cycling in a Simperian kit because it looks. Well, now I understand the story. It's even more compelling to do that because it's actually, you know, as he said, it's about putting a young person on a bike. You know, that's what you're funding when you buy that kit. But actually, the branding is so much better than, for me, than having it labeled with.

With.

With company names all over.

So.

No, I thought that was. I thought that was really interesting.

I really love that idea, actually, just on that point of when you buy something that you're funding something else. And I think there's a really nice feeling for doing that as well, isn't there? As well as being nice to kit I haven't actually seen the kit, but I will have a look. Yeah. That kind of feeling of knowing that you're kind of helping someone to get somewhere I think is really. Is really great.

I think it's. I think that's absolutely right. I think it's really powerful because I've gone from seeing the kit and going, that looks cool, but, you know, I haven't ever actually got around to buying it to going, right, now I understand why I would buy that. I understand the ethos behind the company. And, um, in fact, something I was talking to Ricky about afterwards, well, after we finished recording was it's kind of a little bit like Finistere, which again, is another Cornish brand. Obviously it's, it's cold water surfing. But part of the reason I buy Finisterre clothes is because I like the clothes. Part of it is that it's the ethos behind everything they're doing. The fact that it's recycled, it's kind of, it's, it's just high, you know, highly ethical companies and therefore you kind of, you associate with that brand and you want to kind of represent it. Yeah, so. So no, I thought that, I thought that was, that was really, really interesting.

And one of the things that kind of came across to me which, which I kind of knew about cycling, but it just made me think about it even more and, and where money is in sport and where sports people get paid different amounts of money. When you think about kind of cycling, you know, what they get paid or don't get paid actually, you know, what, you know, from what he was bringing up and the fact that, you know, he's treating women in exactly the same way and, you know, paying them in exactly the same way. But, you know, thinking about footballers and what they get paid versus cyclists and what they get paid, I just find it really interesting how different sports are paid wildly differently, aren't they? You know, an 18 year old paying in a professional football team versus an 18 year old cycling.

Well, there's a whole different conversation about how that's kind of essentially been fueled because. And it's kind of being born out of the, the Russian oligarch conversation at the moment, because Abramovich was one of the, the, the initial reasons why so much money getting started, getting paid in the Premiership because he bought Chelsea, but ultimately he bought Chelsea to. And there's a really interesting interview with Matthew Syed, who's a fantastic. One of my favorite authors. He was on Sky Sports about kind of why Abramovich bought Chelsea, which is Ultimately to make himself a public figure and to reduce the chance of him getting attacked by Putin.

So that whole.

And whether that's Qataris or Saudis buying different clubs for similar sort of reasons because of the public Persona and public, the power of football team, that's one of the reasons why it's been fueled so aggressively in, in football. But you're absolutely right. Then in cycling you got young kids who are, you know, trying to break into, let's say, to use football terms, they're in the championship, they're trying to break into the Premiership, but they're not getting paid a penny and they're having to train probably as much. It's. Yeah, it's, it's a huge disparity and hopefully with the popularity of cycling continue to grow and grow and grow, that'll be something that changes in time.

Yeah, it's. And that's like fascinating to me and I think there's probably a lot of people actually that's, again, that's probably another. A whole show in itself, isn't it? Talking about the kind of ins and outs of funding and.

Yeah, for sure.

The way that people are paid and actually when you. Professional triathletes as well, you know, that's interesting in itself, isn't it?

Well, it is. And we, you know, we did an episode fairly early on in the Tribathlon podcast series with Nikki Bartlett talking about how you finance that as a professional triathlete. And it's, it's fascinating understanding how, I mean, they're basically running their own business, aren't they? It's, you know, with all the social media work and everything else, it is like running their own business and it's.

Working and you know, working with like athletes myself, like, it is like a full time job for them.

Yeah.

You know, when you try and get a call in with them just to talk to them, see how they're doing, like if they're not training there, it is just like it is for you and I. Meetings, you know, social media, Social media stuff. Yeah, absolutely. With that podcast, when would that have been? If people want to go back and listen to that?

Oh, dear me.

That would be a good guess.

It would be probably, I would say, six months after we started. So it was series one and it's probably somewhere in the order of kind of January, February, 2021, I should think.

But if you, if you went onto.

The tribathlon.com website and started at the beginning rather than the end, you'd find the Nikki Bartley interview because it's interesting how she has to pick specific races based on the purse because while she might want to go and race Ironman Lanzarote, which is where she won her first Iron man, the purse is a fraction of it. What it would be at somewhere else like South Africa, so therefore, you know it's. So anyway, different, different podcast.

But.

But interesting, interesting story.

Right, let's wind things up for today. Campbell, good luck with all your training.

Keep up the. The amazing build. I know you've got something on the horizon, but I'm not willing to let it out of the bag. Some point, probably another ultra race. Well, mine's booked is yours in my.

Head, but not yet on paper.

Excellent.

Get it, get it booked. And yeah, that's going to be quite a. Quite an ultra dark, the Dartmoor Way 100. So that's where it's at for me, but I've got a fair bit of time between now and then. So anyway, good luck with all your training and for everybody else, keep training.

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