Dare to Tri with Louise Minchin

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Tribathlon podcast, finding out how ordinary people do extraordinary things.

You can do a triathlon, represent your age group in the World Championships and European Championships. I was like, what? Are you serious? Anyway, I just thought that was a brilliant idea and it sort of went into my brain. I thought this would be such a lunatic thing to try me from the BBC breakfast sofa, try and represent my country in a sport which I've just taken up.

That was Louise Minchin and this episode is Dare to Try. So this episode of the Tribathlon podcast has fantastic interviews with Louise Minchin and there's so much good stuff here and also it's quite a long, relatively long interview. So I decided not to do an intro with a guest co host, although I have got Claire Fudge from Fourth Discipline, the nutritional specialist that will do the outro debunk of Louise's conversation with me. So look out for that after we've caught the interview with Louise Minchin. But Louise Minchin, you know, you. I know that you will know her already, but over the last 20 years, most of us have been waking up to Louise's bubbly enthusiasm delivered from the BBC's red sofa. You know, probably a few mornings a week, but as well as being one of the show's key anchors prior to obviously stepping down recently and you know, latterly that's been with Dan Walker. She is also a triathlon fanatic. She absolutely lives and breathes triathlon and she rediscovering her love of sport whilst on a BBC challenge at the Velodrome. She's gone on to represent her country at triathlon. So representing Team GB as well as completing some of the world's toughest extreme triathlons like Patagon man and Norseman, she currently finds herself in the middle of I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here. Although when I interviewed her, she wasn't allowed to confirm that, so we don't spend much time talking about that, as you will pick up from the interview and the awkward silence. But prior to her entering the castle, I did this interview with her and I wanted to find out about how she got into triathlon, how she managed to deal with the nerves in those early days when there's so much to think about, then how she went on to represent Team GB at a sport she only kind of found in her in her 30s. I also wanted to find out more about having to judge the mood of the nation from the red sofa and how she influenced the nation or, you know, how she had to react to certain things on the red sofa. And as well as understanding, you know, what comes after the red sofa, you know, what's next for Louise Minchin. So I know you're going to absolutely love this conversation with Louise. So much wonderful stuff in here. Particularly, I love, for me, it took me back to when I started triathlon and I think it's just. She's just, you know, her enthusiasm is infectious. And then afterwards, I will. I'll catch up with Claire Fudge from fourth Nutrition to kind of discuss Louise's wisdom and the stories that she said. So I know you're going to love this interview with Louise Minchin. Today's show is brought to you by Precision Hydration, who help athletes personalise their hydration and their fueling strategies so they can perform at their best. They help some incredible athletes, including former podcast guest Emma Pallant Brown ph have tested my sweat and given me amazing advice in terms of the electrolyte strategies that I need to take to race at my best. They've also got their quick carb calculator to tell you how you can fuel at the right amount per hour, not just get the electrolytes right. So you can find out all about their online sweat test and their Quick card calculator@precision hydration.com and remember, if you use Tribathlon 15, the discount code Tribathlon 15, you can get 15% off your first order. So, Louise, welcome to Tri Bathroom Podcast. I know we're going to have loads to chat about today. I normally say for those people that don't know you, but I suspect that everybody that's listening to this will know you.

You think so?

I think they might. Unless, of course, they have a preference for itv. But I like to kick things off by getting people to tell us their story, so particularly more your story around triathlon. So I know your triathlon story started in the velodrome, which I just don't. I suspect not many people can say that. So tell us how you got into triathlon and a little bit about where it's gone from there.

Yeah, that's a sort of mad thing, isn't it? So it genuinely did. It started, the spark was lit in the Velodrome and Manchester and what had happened was I was working on BBC breakfast, it was 2012 and we were coming up to Christmas 2012, and I spent the whole of the summer. I don't know about you, absolutely addicted to the Olympics. I mean, just addicted. I watched so much of it, hours and hours. I went and watched Some of it live. Actually, I got tickets. Got, you know, it was a mad scramble for tickets, wasn't it? I got tickets for one thing, which was the cross country horse. Cross country.

Tickets I got too.

They were probably. I don't know what that says about the tickets. Let's not.

There's just a big space in Greenwich park, isn't there?

Yeah, there was loads and it was wonderful. It was a wonderful atmosphere, wasn't it? And all the game makers and everything. Anyway, I just were totally bought into the whole thing. And I've always watched the Olympics, but particularly, obviously being in London. I lived in London. I just loved it. Anyway, it was coming up to Christmas and normally on BBC Breakfast and that's where people probably know me from, we would do a Christmas challenge and I'd only just joined the program and until then they'd sort of been challenges like cooking challenges, like Bake off challenges and various other things. And I thought my producer said, right, we were looking for a challenge. Have you got any ideas? And I just thought at the time, I've now been on MasterChef, which I love, by the way, but at the time I just thought, oh, those cooking things, that's a bit boring. Let's go for something a bit more kind of out there. So I said, well, why don't we do something that's inspired by the Olympics? You know, we've all spent all summer watching them. And she went away and she's brilliant, by the way. She went away and she thought about it and then she came back and she's like, I've got an idea for you. This is what you're going to do. You're going to go to the velodrome. You're going to race on a racing bike with your co presenters with a crowd. And I just went, why did I give her that idea? Because I'd never been to a velodrome. I'd never sat on a racing bike. And the whole thing was absolutely terrifying. Terrifying. And we had as good old BBC breakfast, we had one hour to practice before the big day. Okay, so we went in and I mean, I'm sure you've probably. Have you been to a velodrome, Charlie? You must have.

I haven't.

Oh, gosh. There was nobody even in velodrome when we went for our practice day. But it's got an extraordinary atmosphere. It's very intense because you've got these seats stacked up high around the velodrome and then the slope of the, of this, of the racing track is just it's like a slide. It's like a child's slide. And I actually took stat on the top and then slid down to check. And yet. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. So very intense. And we got on our bikes. I mean, I always say we got on our bikes and it was, you know, I've never even worn cleats, anything like that. I never sat on a racing bike. I'd never put my hands on drop handlebars. I was an absolute novice. So I got. I did get on my bike. And then they've got fixed wheels. So when you put your feet in the, on the cleats, you, you and you don't. Your wheels are going, your feet still go. So it's. Honestly, it's all these things going on that you just don't know. And it felt like it was super skinny and I was going to fall off any. So did my first lap screaming with terror. Did my second lap and went, yeah, you know what? Third lap I'm in. I'm literally like, right, that is it. I love. I love these kind of bikes. I love the velodrome. Anyway, forward one. Oh, yeah. And then, bless her, Susanna. I've told this story many times. Susanna basically cried for the whole hour. I mean, I don't blame her. I don't blame her at all. It was terrifying. Anyway, we then boardwind a couple of days and then we walked into the velodrome on the night and there were 4,000 people and they were having a competition. So they all watched this competition. We were the sort of halftime entertainment. And Bill Turner. So I was racing with Charlie State against Bill Turnbull and Susanna Reid. And Bill Turnbull said that morning, he said, there's one thing that's not going to happen today. I'm not going to be beaten by a girl. And if anybody knows me, that is like, literally. Yeah, totally, totally. So I. So on that, on the day, I think what happened. So Bill went first and he did a really good time. Charlie went second. I mean, smashed it. Completely smashed it. Did a round that, you know, that would have been like a good sort of competition or club. A club rider, I would have thought. And then Susanna went round and she just basically sort of sailed round, you know, super gracefully, did it beautifully, but not very fast. So all I had to do was pretty much not fall off my bike. And we were. Charlie and I were going to win because it was our schools added together. And there's this moment when I look back now, and I love looking back actually, because there's this Moment when you can see I've got my hand on the bar and I'm about to let go. Follow Ed Clancy. I mean, it's bonkers, isn't it? And I make this decision because there's two things I could have done. I could have gone, right, I'm just gonna go nice and steady. We'll win the BBC Breakfast gold medal. I mean, you know, it was made like somebody had made it in the office. It was made out of, I don't know, foil or something, but really, I've lost it. I'm absolutely gutted. Anyway, so. Or so I could have just gone round and we would have won anyway. Or I could just really try and go for it and try and be Bill. And there's this moment when my life changed and I was like, right, I'm gonna go for it. Absolutely went for it. And it's really funny watching now, because I'm completely useless. I'm bouncing all over the place and I'm all wobbly and all those things you shouldn't do. But I did beat him by something. Like, I don't. I think it's five hundredths of a second. And honestly, I went over the finishing line. I was just like. I felt like I'd won the Olympics. It was so excited. Everybody's cheering because we'd had a brilliant commentator make everybody cheer and clap and everything. And I just thought. I literally went around and just was like, wow. And I just was like, bang. I just forgot for 30 years or something how much I loved to race. And I love the race. I love that I don't need to win, by the way, and I don't often win at all. But I love that adrenaline, that buzz, that pushing yourself. And I'd given up competitive swimming when I was about 14 or 15 and literally hadn't raced since. At all, anything. And I was just like, right, that's it. I'm going to buy myself a bike. And literally the next day, I think for Christmas, I bought myself everything. Bike cleats, special shoes, helmet, the whole lot. My husband's like, what are you doing? You're never even going to ride that thing. I was like, you watch me, I'm going to ride it.

Brilliant. And we all love that, that day where we go buy all the kit with no clue as to how we're going to use it. You know, am I going to do mountain biking? Am I going to do roadside? What are we going to do with it? But I'm going to buy the kit and do it properly. So how did you. How did you go from getting that initial spark of enthusiasm for cycling to then entering a triathlon?

So what happened then? Then I went out on my bike and genuinely, it was again, super scary. I remember cycling down the road and hearing this noise going, oh, my gosh, there's a car behind me, looking behind me. There's no car. It was just the wind in my ears. I'd never traveled at that speed. I had a bike when I was in London, like commuting. But, you know, I never traveled at any speed at all. So I got sort of quite confident. Quite confident. I mean, I wasn't confident. I was absolutely useless. I come to. I didn't know how to get off my bike. Nobody told me how to even get off my bike. You know when you don't take both feet out of the pedals, do you, and sort of fly along? No, you don't, because you. Anyway, so I was doing that and really enjoying it. And then a friend of mine who lives in the same village as me had seen me running a bit and I'm really not a runner. I'm sure we'll come to that. But she said, I've seen you running, I've seen you cycling. Why don't you try a triathlon? I was like, triathlon? Oh, yeah, watch that in the Olympics. I know it's got three sports. I know what they are. I don't know what order they're in. I know the Brownies are really good at it, but, yeah, why not give it a go? So I entered myself with my first triathlon, which was called the Diva Divas, which is in Chester in. Yeah, summer of 2013. And that. That was my first one, sort of a year, no, six months after being in the velodrome.

It's a pretty daunting experience, doing your first triathlon, isn't it? And, you know, I found. I mean, I came to triathlon in my late 30s and it is just so much to take in, isn't it? And then there's the fourth discipline, which is a course transition, which is a whole. You know, you never dealt with any of that.

So stuff.

There's quite a lot of nerves that goes into triathlon. How did you get over those early nerves? And I think there's a story about Portaloo that fits in here as well.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you about this. So that first one, let's talk a little bit about how intimidating it is. And I do, you know, I still go to some. I went to Leeds this Year because I was working, I wasn't actually racing. And you just. Even now, even me, and I've done loads of triathlons and as you know, all over the world, it's still intimidating because, you know, yet there are people there and I don't have, I have good kids, I don't have super kids, you know, I just really don't. And, and I do still find that kind of whole. There's quite a lot of testosterone around, isn't there? Okay. And I just find that still now intimidating. But there are triathlons all over the place, brilliant ones that are not like that. And that is where, that's where I did my first one was Diva Divas. So it was women only. So kind of takes quite a lot of the stress out of it, I think. No offense to the male counterparts who are listening to this, but it just takes things down a level, you know, it means you're not going to, you know, I've been in plenty of swim starts with, with men and it's, there's definitely a different atmosphere and you're definitely more likely to get. Things happen. Not say it hasn't in races with women, by the way either. But anyway, so I think that's what was really good for me, was to go and I, Anybody who's going into this, you know, I would really go for one of those kind of small local triathlons. It was women only. There was only a few amount of people in there. And it could not actually have been more welcoming and more encouraging. But I was super nervous, super nervous. And I arrived and I just didn't really know. I just. There's so much I didn't know. I arrived. You know, you've got to really plan, haven't you've got to arrive on time. You know, you cannot be late. I arrived late, so I didn't know. And so somebody had to help me rack my bike. And so they racked it for me, which was great. And I was like getting my stuff ready and it was. One of the marshals racked my bike for me. And that was an absolute rookie error because you talk about the fourth discipline. I came out of the swim. Oh, no. So I did the swim, which I had a panic attack in, by the way. Well, minor, but yeah, definitely had a bit of a moment, did the bike, came back to rack my bike and because I hadn't done it, didn't realize, you know, how you put the seat on the, on the, on the pole so it kept falling off and I was like Gabe, how do I. Eventually, eventually somebody else came in behind me. I was like, oh, that's how you do it. I mean, it's super simple when you know how, isn't it? But when you don't know how and you're in a race, it's absolutely no good. So, yeah, nerves were definitely a thing. And they continue to be, and they continue even now to be a big thing for me. And there was a, there was a big moment where I was going, oh, it's one of my early triathlons again. Still super nervous. Family were going with me, they're picking me. I mean, I did so many mad things. I thought it was okay to do a four hour BBC breakfast program, then get in the car, drive to Leeds and do a triathlon. I just thought that was fine, except for my lovely husband arrived late to pick me up and then we got in a traffic jam and then I missed my wave and I'm just like, right, that's it. I'm nervous anyway and I get really jittery and sort of kind of silly and you can't really make very good decisions when I'm nervous. And I was like, but that's it. I'm not even going to get out the car. There's no point going, I've missed my wave anyway. They literally threw me out of the car. My husband and my daughter dumped me in transition and I went and hid in the portal. I literally hid in the loo because I'd missed my way. But I was super nervous and I thought if I hide in the loo then I don't have to do this thing. And my daughter found me, she's like, what do you do? She just shamed me. I could hear her shouting, mommy, Mummy, where are you? What you'd be doing? Oh, no, it's just my wetsuit got stuck, that's all. And I did it and I loved it again. Loved it. I always love it.

I think one of the things I absolutely love about Dare to try your book, which I've now read twice, by the way. Yeah, it's because I read it when it first came out and then I read it again just in the last week or so before this interview. And I just think it just takes me back to my early days in triathlon and all of those crazy experiences and all those jittery nerves and, you know, I can swim, I can bike, I can run, but can I stick them together? There's so many, like the lead legs after you, you know, when you do your first Run after the bike and all of these things. It is a wonderful book.

And the most useful thing about my book is when I was writing it, I. I did this chapter about a list of things to remember, okay? And I sent it to my publisher. I thought, God, this is so boring. I said, I don't, I don't really. I said to him, look, I really like this list, but I really don't think we should put. Is so boring. Do you know what? When I go to a race, I get. I think it's chapter 14. I get it. I still get it out because it's absolutely brilliant. It has literally everything that I need to go to a race.

But I also think it's a brilliant book for those people that are thinking about doing one because you've given them the tangible. You've given them sort of probably years of learning all in one go. I mean, I remember the first book I read when I decided I was going to do a triathlon was called Triathlon A Beginner's Guide, which seemed like an obvious thing to read, but it was full of those sorts of lists. And yeah, boy, did it make life easy, easier. Anyway, one of the things that people find daunting is the fact that triathlon, you know, you mentioned kit, you don't have all the super fancy kit, but at the start, nobody has really any of the kit other than a bike and a wetsuit, hopefully and some trainers, you know, those early triathlons, people get intimidated by them. Do you think that the kit is essential to get getting into triathlon or is it really not?

I think, again, no, I don't. And the other thing that I really found, and I think I wrote about this in the book I may not have done actually, is that if you can just, you know, take a breath, walk into that transition, which can look super scary. If you were an idiot like me, I'd. So clueless triathletes like you love talking about triathlon. They love talking about their kit. So they are more than willing to help. You know, they really are. And that's what I've always found. You know, there'll be someone, of course, there'll be people who are super focused on the day and their way of coping with nerves is not talking to other people. There will be people like that, but 99% of the time, within the three people on the side of you where you're racking your bike, there will be someone that goes, oh, why don't you do this, do this, do this? Bottom I think so that's what I would always remember is actually triathletes love triathlon. They love. Most of them love passing on knowledge as well. And also for the kit. No, I don't think you need, you know, you could, you know, you can do it at all different levels. I mean, for example, my husband and his friends always do they once a year now, they do a triathlon together. And they're absolutely hilarious. I mean, I used to. I now. I now normally volunteer on the race that they're in because I just love seeing them do it, to be honest with you. And, you know, David's friend arrives. He arrived last time, he did it with his bike and honestly, it looked like it had. It looked like it was a mountain bike. It was covered in mud. I was just like, right, give me that bike, I'm going to wash it for you. So I went and cleaned his bike. So, yeah, I think you can do all different levels, you know, and there are people who are doing it, you know, at the pointy end, aren't they? Like, probably you and formerly, possibly me maybe trying a bit. But, you know, there's. There's so many people who just do it because it's a challenge, because it's fun, because they love the adventure. So I think there's a whole sort of range of ways you can do it.

And so at some point you got so enthusiastic and found, really found love for triathlon that you realized that actually it was possible to represent your country at this sport, which I know in the book you say you just found absolutely incredible. I find it incredible that it's something that we can do, coming to a sport late. Tell me a little bit about the qualification process and how people can actually represent their country. And also with particular reference to the Dam Buster. The Dam Buster is my local race. I live about mile and a half from the start of the Dam Buster. So it's that and the Vitruvian are my two local races. And so. And I know that you qualified at the Dambuster.

I did.

So tell us a little bit about qualification for GB and the Dambuster.

So I remember. So I started doing triathlons. Absolutely. First one genuinely was super hard. I had a stitch in the run. Couldn't really run 5k at that point. I didn't run 5k. I like ran to the end of the field when my family couldn't see me, walked anyway, went over the finishing line and within 30 seconds was like, I'm going to do another one. So I started doing them sort of Quite regularly. And I remember, I think it was. It was in Wales, it was in Mcynthleth, where there was this really, really brilliant triathlon. But it was in a tiny swimming centre with. I think it was. The pool might be only 20 meters. It was one of those, you know, super hot. There was a slide, a children's slide above you. And I was waiting, we were waiting on the side. I'd much rather, by the way, do open water swimming. I only choose those now because that's pool swimming racing now. Not for me. So I remember waiting on the side and seeing all these people wearing tri suits which said, you know, I don't know, Hope, gbr. And I said, where have they got them from? Oh, my gosh, they've got people who compete, like on the international stage in this tiny pool in the middle of North Wales. What's going on? I asked and somebody said, like, you just said, you know, you can. You can actually. You can do a triathlon, represent your age group in the World Championships and European Championships. I was like, what, are you serious? Anyway, I just thought that was a brilliant idea and it sort of went into my brain. I thought this would be such a lunatic thing to try me from the BBC breakfast sofa, try and represent my country in a sport which I've just taken up. Why don't. I mean, you know, you just listen to that. You think, why would. Why would I even think that was possible? And so I had a coach at the time and I hardly dare tell her I sort of did a bit of looking into it and I hardly really dare tell her that this is what I want to do, because the only thing I was vaguely good enough at in of all the three disciplines was swimming. I used to do really well at swimming and, you know, come out, I don't know, in the top 10, probably, or, you know, top sort of 5% of the swim. But the cycling, not really. And the running, seriously, not. Anyway, she looked at my time, she's like, right, you are going to have to work extremely hard because none of your times are right and, you know, you really need to prove them.

Anyway.

The short answer to what you asked me was, how do you qualify? You go to a. You have to go to a qualifying race and there's. You'll have to look on the British triathlon website where they are and how many there are next year for I don't know how many there are. So you have to get yourself into a qualifying race and then you have to get qualifying time. So you're racing in those races against people in your age group and you. I can't remember. It's like. Anyway, you have to get what is a qualifying time. And I can't quite remember. Oh, yeah, I can't remember whether it's the. Charlie, you have to help me here. Is it the top three? I think it's the top three. And then you have to be in.

A certain top four, isn't it? And then there's the roll down, isn't it?

Then there's roll down, basically. Yeah, exactly. There's top three or four and then there's what you call roll down. Anyway, I was never going to be in the top three or four, so roll down, was I? I think I did, actually. No, I did.

You're right.

You take me back here, Charlie, quite some years. So. Yeah. Anyway, so you have to do a really good time, basically. And then there's lots of possibilities of you being able to qualify, including roll down, which I have qualified through roll down. Subsequently, I went to my first one, which was. Again, it was in Chester and it was the Diva Triathlon. So kind of home turf for me. And again, you know, I was. I think I'd been injured going into it. Absolutely, you know, I absolutely went for. I had trained really hard and I remember, I think it was my first Olympic distance. I mean, always. I'm so silly. It's always my first, isn't it? My first Olympic distance triathlon. I'm trying to qualify for the GB team. I'm absolutely nanas. And it was my. Anyway, so I remember coming out of transition from bike to run and I remember looking down and my shoelace again, you know, hadn't. Didn't have the proper shoelaces. Talking about kit, you know, I didn't even have the super shoelaces that you don't have to do up. Had to do up my shoelace. So bent down, did up my shoelace. It was really hot day. Anyway, managed to complete it in a good time and I failed to qualify. By the time it took me to do my shoelace, Literally. Literally. Like, honestly. And you know, it was so close. And then my coach is like, right, okay, so you've just failed, but only just. And there was dam busters. Literally six days later, she said, you're gonna have to go, you have to go again. And oh, gosh. So, you know, can you imagine turning around yourself? I mean, you know, I could probably do. Subsequently, that would have been easy. But to suddenly do another triathlon six days later at that pace, went To Dam Buster's. And again, it was a hard. Gosh, it was hard. Those hills. Charlie, tell the listeners about the hills, the Rutland ripple.

Well, you told them about the Rutland ripple. I'm fairly familiar with the Rutland ripple.

But it didn't feel like a ripple at the time, like the Rutland Mountains. And there were people. I remember going over the ripples, which are not ripples, everybody. And I remember going up one and there were people getting off their bikes and I was like, I can't get off my. I really wanted to get off my bike. I was like, I can't get off my bike. I'm trying to qualify for the team, for the GB team. I've got, you know, I can't do that. So I just kept going anyway. And it was, again, super hard. The run was horrific. I remember thinking, all right, I'm just going to give up, I'm going to go home. And I only didn't because I made my family get up at 4am and drag them halfway across the country.

And it is only a tricky run because of the psychology of it, isn't it?

Yes.

I mean, it's a beautiful flat run, really, isn't it, around?

Yeah. There's not even a ripple in it, is there? And it's difficult, isn't it, Charlie? Because it's just straight out and straight back and you've got people coming towards you.

That's the problem. You're watching the other people that are ahead of you disappearing, you know, coming in the other direction, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, it was really hard. I remember at one point, the final turnaround, which seemed like 10 million miles away, there was a wedding on the left hand side. Is there a little church or something?

Yeah, Normanton Church is kind of our iconic Rutland symbol. But yes, there. Yeah, weddings happen there.

So it was a wedding and they were all coming out, watching us in our little dry suits. I love the swim, by the way. That was one of my favorite swims. It was beautiful water, isn't it?

Beautiful water. And you usually get it. You usually run in while the sun is rising. And it's quite iconic.

Yeah, it was. It was. I remember it was absolutely stunning, actually. Anyway, so I. Yeah, so I did a good. Did a good time there, and I didn't know at that time, but literally managed to qualify on the day at Dan Busters, which is incredible. So I qualified for the World Championships in Chicago, much to my surprise and shock.

And how were your experiences representing your country both in the World Championships in Chicago and then Also, I think you went on to represent Team GB in the European Championships as well.

Yes, I went, I've been to. Oh, gosh, I mean, it sounds silly that I can't remember. So I went to Chicago. I've been to Australia, to the Gold Coast. I've been to yet a couple of years. One in Lisbon and one also in Denmark as well. So I did quite. I mean, I really did a lot actually. And oh, they were amazing. My first one in Chicago, it was incredible experience, but, you know, I kind of did it on. I'd done it on very. Looking back now on a really short run up actually, and I think that might have been only my third Olympic distance. Super inexperienced, especially around heat. I'd never, it was so hot and I'd never done a triathlon in the heat and I'd kind of, you know, really messed up my, my nutrition. I didn't have enough. I, I spilled my water. And then on the run, they. They're shouting at me. They. Do you want your water? Do you want Gatorade? Do you want water? Do you want Gatorade? Do you know what Gatorade is?

Well, it's basically a sugary salt.

It's basically exactly what you need. But I'd gone back to that thing which people tell you and by the way, don't believe this everybody. You know, never do anything on the race you've never done before. Yes, you do. If it's an emergency and you're feeling terrible, take whatever they're going to give you. Because I was in terrible trouble.

Often they know better than you, don't they? Like flat coke. When I first saw that was like flat coke.

Really?

Okay, yeah, I see why whatever, you.

Know, there comes desperate times, aren't there? Anyway, no, it was an incredible experience. I mean, gosh, you know, the atmosphere. I mean, you know, you'd like, Would you like to do it one day, Charlie? I would.

I am in like this. I think I'm in what they class as the most competitive age category.

I, I love when people tell me this. They're all competitive.

I know, but all the, like, the guys that I'm racing, the guys are.

All competitive in the race.

I'm like, so, so let's just come back. Have you won your age category?

I love that you asked that, Charles. So we're into cargo. I came, I think I was last. The next one I was second last. And these are the world championships. But yes, I thank you so much for asking me, Charlie. I wanted to ask this question. I have Once won my age group and this was in the Shopshire Triathlon in Ellesmere. Oh, my gosh. That's a beautiful swim, by the way, if you like. Well, sometimes, yeah, sometimes it's lovely swim, a lovely bike. Anyway, I did it. I don't know what was I doing. I was doing. I was doing half distance, so I was doing 70.3. Not this year, last year. And again, you know, 70.3 is quite a tough. Oh, she's quite. It's a fun distance actually, isn't it? But really struggled again on the run and because I'd hurt my ankle, actually, but we'll come to that. And anyway, managed to get through it, mostly because my husband shouted at me and says, you're not gonna stop and come up all this way. You're not gonna stop now. 21km later and a lot of shouting. I finished and then they phoned me up the next day. I was so pleased. I only do this for the medals, by the way, and I love all yours behind you. I was so pleased with my big fat medal, finishers medal. And then the next day they phoned me up and said, louise, Louise, you've won your age group. I was like, what?

What?

I won my age group. Oh, my gosh. I would have stayed there. You know, the whole podium thing, this has never happened to me. I was like, what? And then I said, that's so exciting. Thank you so much. How many people in my age group? And he goes, one. And you know what? I'm not having that taken away from me.

It's such a shame you didn't. So such a shame you didn't stay for the podium photo. Isn't it, though?

I didn't stay for the podium.

So is there a particular highlight of you representing Team GB in all of these different amazing locations around the world?

I think for me, it's always going to be the first, isn't it? That's the best in some ways. It was definitely the hardest, Chicago, because, as I say, I completely messed things up and could have made my life so much easier. And what I loved, I absolutely loved was when I finished, a whole lot of my teammates had. Wait. Had waited for me because they were much faster than me. And there's this wonderful photograph. I think it's about four of us all in a row and we've got that amazing post triathlon sort of glow. We're all celebrating the only way that triathletes do with bananas and, you know, and sugary drinks.

There's no wine, alcohol Free beer.

Yeah, yeah.

Or that lovely alcohol. Free beer, which I've drunk loads. And I just think, you know, it's about the camaraderie. It's about all being in it together. You know, you are competing against each other, obviously, but, you know, there's a real sense of team. And for anybody who's listening, you know, it's really hard to qualify. You've got to get it right on the day and all the rest of it. But, you know, it's an amazing opportunity. I absolutely loved it and, you know, wouldn't swap that for the world. Just, you know, Charlie, you know how hard it is, and I do accept that your age group is a particularly difficult one, despite what I said earlier.

But in answer to your question, I would absolutely love to. I just know that I've got to bide my time. Is it, like, about patience for a few people to fall off their perch?

Yeah. And there, you know, there are, you know, if you look at. If you look on the. And the way to go about this, everybody, by the way, is to go on the British triathlon website because it's all there. You know, where the qualifiers are, how to do it, what roll down means and all the rest of it, you know, and I was kind of. I've gone to Aquabike now, so. Which is just a swim and a bike, which is again, oh, my gosh, I love that we're competed for that in Ponte Ventre in. In Spain. Amazing. Mostly amazing, because Javier Gomez passed me when I was on my bike, you know, with a motorcade and everything. I didn't actually realize it was him at the time because I was trying to get a big stay on my bike. But, yeah, you know, go for it. And, you know, it does require. It requires being really fast. I mean, that's just bottom line, isn't it? And that's hard work.

Yeah, brilliant. And since then. So you went from qualifying for. To represent your country in your second ever Olympic distance triathlon. And I know in the book that, you know, stepping up to doing Olympic distance was a big challenge for you, that you weren't sure you were even going to get round on that first Chester one, were you? So instead, you've now gone to much longer distances and do some of the extreme triathlons. Did you. Was it a journey of. Did you do a normal Ironman and then go on to.

Extremely.

You just went straight up to.

Yeah, I went from Olympic distance to X try. So I didn't do a 70.3. I didn't do it, why bother? I mean, really. So what happened was so, I mean, I, you know, so I took this sport up very late in life. I think I was 45 or so something I think I was probably when I did. My gosh, was I only 45 when I did my first triathlon? So I took it up really late in life and just ahead of my 50th birthday. So obviously quite a big milestone. And I'm thinking, how am I going to celebrate my birthday? Am I going to have a party? Am I going to do, you know, an amazing trip? What, you know, what am I going to do? And I was thinking about triathlon and thinking, you know, I've had an incredible time. I've absolutely loved it. I've done everything I wanted to do in the same sport. Not everything, but, you know, I've done. I've had so many great times. But what next? And I was sitting on the sun lounger sort of scrolling, you know, wasting my time, and I suddenly saw this little tweet which said patagon man. And I just went, patagon man, what's that? And the reason it stood out for me was that I had spent. When I was at university, just after left university, actually, I studied Spanish at Unique. And my first job was working in Patagonia as a translator for Raleigh International. That was my first job. So I spent six months living and working in this tiny, tiny little place which is, you know, like, not like miles and miles south of Santiago, which is the capital, surrounded by this incredible countryside with glaciers and mountains and rivers. Anyway, it was. And incredibly remote and I loved it, absolutely loved it. I loved the whole expedition. I'd love, you know, being part of the translation team and all the rest of it. And so I looked at, I thought, right, okay, so I'll just click on that and I'll just. It says Patikan man. The extreme race and the south and you know, in the most south place of the world. I can't remember what the Extreme Triathlon at the End of the World. That was the tagline Extreme Triathlon at the End of the World.

You know, come on, what's not to love?

I was, I was nearly in. I pretty much was. But then I looked at where it was based and it was based in this place called Koyaki, which is exactly where I had spent six months of my life. And that was. The six months of my life had changed things because as part of my job. Try make this a short story, Charlie. Sorry. As part of my job I had to do all the media interviews. And I remember very, very vividly sitting in a tiny radio station. I mean, there were probably three people listening and the dj, a bit like you, asking me all the questions. And it's taking me right back, actually, and just looking at him and going, I know what job I want, I want his job. And so that's where my love for kind of radio and journalism started. So basically, I'm sitting on the sun lounger, I see Patagon Man, I see Koya Key, and I just entered the lottery because I think I don't tell my husband. I always tell things him when things a little bit late, because you know what, I just wanted to see if I got a place first. I sort of entered it and then three weeks later got a place in the lottery. Because all those extras like Norseman and Patagon man, you know, that's how you get entries, you get through a lottery. And I got a place and I was just like, well, okay, so I've got a place. Clearly I'm gonna have to do this now.

So you didn't even blag the sort of media card of I'm. Because it's, you know, these things are oversubscribed, aren't they?

So you just.

I think it sounds like it was destined.

I don't know.

It was destined, but I think then it was the first one, so. And it's basically in that it's part of the Norseman family, of which there's Celt man, there's all the Swiss man, there's lots of different ones on there. And it was the first one. So I think the, you know, probably, I don't know, not that many people went in for the lottery. But, yeah, I got a lottery place which was just. It was so. And you think you've won the lottery, you haven't won the lottery, you've won a place to do something absolutely, you know, hugely challenging, miles and miles away.

But I've got friends that have raised Patagon man and I've interviewed people have you on it, and it just sounds an incredible race to do. So how was it?

Oh, it was epic. It was scary, you know, had real highs, real lows. Lucy Gossage was there and she won it the year I was racing it. You know, we got up at 3am, drove through the dark down these tight. These sort of dusty roads that's not even tarmac, some of them, actually, to this port, the port where I'd arrived when I, you know, when I was 21 when I first arrived for my job to the ferry that I'd arrived on. And then you get on the ferry, you know, it's pitch black, dark, and it's really scary because they're like, right, there's plan A, there's plan B and there's plan C, you know, depending on the weather. And the weather was a little bit feisty, a little bit windy. So we went for plan B, which was, you know, there was the extreme swim. They're all extreme because, you know, you dropped in the water in the dark and you've got to swim 2.8 kilometers. So, you know, 3.8 even. 3.8. What am I talking about? A long way.

Yeah, yeah.

But next. And the orcas. Yeah, the orcas.

And then.

And, you know, one thing I'd read about the tagline, or I've done too much research, was that orcas swim in this field, Right. So I got in my head that obviously I was going to be eaten by an orca. And, I mean, it was amazing. And it was, you know, dark, and then there's all these people again. You know, my nerves sort of affect me in a kind of. Lucy and I are really similar in that it's really fun. We were probably really annoying because we were dancing to Ariana Grande on the top of the ferry while all these. Again, the men were like, super serious. Yeah. Zen. And, you know, in the zone. We were just having a laugh. Oh, yeah. So, gosh, it was incredible. That swim was incredible. And I've been absolutely adamant because it's really cold. I think it was like 9 or 10 degrees. And I've been adamant that I was not going to get cold before I got in the water. And so was Lucy, which meant that I was literally the last, probably the last 10 people to get in the water. And the race, had they already. So everybody got in the water and they'd started swimming. They hadn't waited for the whistle. So I literally got in the water. I was like, oh, my gosh, they've all started. I came up and as I came up, literally the sort of horn went. I was like. And I'm like 100 meters already behind the start of the race. Anyway, I had an incredible swim. I think they. What was brilliant about it was because they set off early. I basically had all these little people, groups of people to catch. And I was just like, aim for that one. Right, Aim for the next one. Right, aim for the next one. And I had a cracking swim, cracking swim.

Came in on that swim. I'M right in saying you get Reynard's disease.

Yeah, Reynard's syndrome.

Yes, or syndrome. Sorry. So, yeah, so you get really, really cold hands and feet in that sort of swim. How are you dealing with. How do you overcome that?

Well, what I've learned over the years is that, I mean, I can go into the supermarket and my hands will go numb. So they're really. It's very, very quick and 100%. There's never a swim pretty much wherever I am, unless it's in, you know, the Caribbean or something where my hands don't go numb and my feet. So on that day, I wore booties because, you know, that was obviously going to help. I know that my hands are going to go numb even if I'm wearing gloves. So there's actually sort of no point wearing gloves for me. I might as well, because I just find with the gloves, you can't. I think I've got this sort of. I don't know whether it's true or not, but I got this sort of psychological thing that, you know, the gloves, if you're, you know, when you. With your stroke, will be making your arm heavier. So I just think, well, what's the point?

Alan Hovder, who has won both of these Norseman and Patagon, I think he's on Patagon man. Actually, I might be wrong. He's really into his aerodynamics and he's done a load of research on the gloves, and the gloves do significantly slow you down, so you're absolutely right.

Okay, that's really good to know. He was very funny that day because he nearly missed the ferry. He nearly missed the ferry. He, like, came on, like, with his kit all over the place, like, last man on the ferry. I think he gave second that day anyway. Yeah. So I just don't bother with gloves because I just think my hands are going to go numb anyway. I think, and I'm obviously hopefully right, that they slow me down and I'm a good swimmer, so why would I, you know. And I also know that I've done it so often that I can swim with my hands numb. So I know, you know, even I'm not making the perfect shape with my hands, they're still doing pretty good job. So I just deal with it.

How do you get through T1 when.

That could be really hard? Actually, on the X Tris, amazingly, you're allowed to have your support in transition. So thankfully, my husband was there, so he could, you know, undo the zip. But, yeah, it can be really really difficult for me to get, you know, shoes undone or shoes done up. And my feet are the worst. And I know that I again worked out over time that when I'm on my bike it's going to take 40 minutes for my feet to warm up and 20 minutes for my hands to warm up. And that's just the way it is. It's just deal with it.

But they're not like screaming in pain.

They'Re just numb then are they screaming in pain? No, they're not actually. That's a good point.

I suffer with hands, cold hands and feet, but they are literally screaming in pain.

Are they?

That's interesting. I think mine goes sort of beyond pain.

They're just like, no, I'm just not tough enough. I need to go further.

They just go from. It's a bit like me from, you know, Olympic distance to X tribe. It's just like they're either okay or they're numb. And also, you know, they're warming up very slowly, obviously over 40 minutes. So I'm not saying it's comfortable in any way, by the way, but it's just something I just get on with because otherwise I wouldn't be able to do the sport I love.

And the ride at Patagon, man is supposed to be spectacular, isn't it?

Gosh, I mean it's unbelievable. And a huge kind of mixture of landscapes. I remember, you know that you one point you're going through an enormous, this gushing, powerful river which is a glacial coming off the glaciers and these lupins because the time of year, it's December, I think it's happening in the next couple of weeks. The lupins are wild. They're like wildflowers in Patagonia. And then you've got the snow capped mountains, you've got hanging glaciers. I mean it's just unbelievable. And a huge. I can't remember what the elevation is, but it is relentless, absolutely relentless. And then they may have changed, I'm not sure whether changed it. But what happened then on those days in paddock and man is you're allowed your support. There's no official support at all. And so you have your supporter which is my husband with a car full of kit and he could meet me in transition one and then at I think 45km on the bike ride, I think there was a water stop at 90 and then 125km is only able to meet me twice on the flight, which is a long old day, isn't it? Sort of eight hours. I think I Did. I can't remember quite what it was. And we messed up because we thought we'd done, you know. You know, trying to recce an X try is really hard because you've got 220km, haven't you? It's not, you know, it's not like going around in circles or anything.

No, the whole point to point thing is a whole different challenge.

Oh, my God. Gosh. And. And anyway, so we hadn't. We tried to recce it and we tried to sort of guess where that stop might be and basically we got it wrong by about 10, well, maybe 8k or something. So it's 8k further than both of us thought. So he thought that he missed it and had, you know, if he missed it, you know, I haven't got my. Haven't got my stuff. I've got my food. I'm missing out loads of stuff. I haven't got my extra drink and everything. And I thought, I mean, I was just. Honestly, I was beside myself because you kind of mentally, you get yourself to those points, you don't go, right, okay, so it's only 5k to go until I'm going to see David. And then, of course, it was an extra nearly eight and I was in flood. Honestly, by the time I saw him, I'd run out of everything and mostly of like, of courage. And I was like going up this hill and I was going so slowly, literally counting 1, 2, 1, 2. And I was counting the bricks because they were so steep, these hills. You probably think they were fine after Rut and Ripple, by the way, I did not think they were fine. And I remember just like literally being beside myself and then seeing him on this brow of this hill because they're all wearing these orange. I think they're orange fluorescent tops. And I just like started crying hysterically before I saw him arrived. Just like unable to breathe with the crying, which meant that everybody, like running around, oh, my gosh, is she okay? And you just go, she's fine, she's fine. Just need a cup of tea. She'll be fine. She'd be totally fine. I sat down and had a cup of tea and it was so, honestly, you must do them because the people, the characters that do these extries and their families, it's just absolutely fabulous. There were people sort of lying in sort of seats and having massages. Just brilliant.

You've done Patagon man, you've done Norseman. Have you got more on that X Tri journey that you want?

Oh, that's a good point. I'm sorry. I think so. Yeah, I think so. I haven't decided which one. I mean, Celtman sounds to me brutal. They're all brutal in their own way. I mean, the elevation. The thing about Pasco, man, if anybody's thinking about doing it, is the marathon is so stunning because you're on your own for literally 99% of the time and you're running on these trails through completely and utterly deserted landscape with these aquamarine lakes and. Oh, it was. It was a really incredible experience, actually. But, yeah, kelpman sounds and sounds. I mean, I think it's jellyfish and the water incredibly cold. Yeah, that sounds really brutal. But that's the one I've probably got my eye on at some point.

I like. You're right. I like the idea of Celtman, but I asked the same question, or asked which was her favorite? Flora College, and she reckoned that Swissman, I mean, she lives in Switzerland, she's probably biased, but she said Swissman is her favorite. She thinks that is just an amazing race. So that's definitely on my bucket list.

And Norseman is the actual, you know, is the father of all of these races and. And the. The people that run Norseman. Honestly, I. Absolutely. We're lifelong friends now. We really are. They're just wonderful and welcoming and supportive and the whole thing about the X tri world is it's not about, you know, I mean, you know, again, you've got the Flora Colleges and all and Lucy Gossages, etc, who are, you know, amazing. But, you know, there are lots of really what I would call normal people who've got normal lives, you know, doing them. And so that the atmosphere is just really nothing like anything I've ever done, actually.

It's more. I suspect for most people, it's more about completing than competing, isn't it?

Oh, yeah. And there was a wonderful man just before I did Pat, a good man, a Chilean who I'd met, and he said, the man who wins the race on the day is not the one who comes first, it's the one who looks up and enjoys it. And I promise you, I looked up all that day, apart from when I cried and just took in the atmosphere. And I buzzed. I literally buzzed for like three months afterwards.

Amazing. And I know that you've got some. You've spoken a couple of times about your. About the love of open water and swimming. And I know through the Her Spirit podcast, which we'll come, that you've got some swimming challenges coming up. So what do you have you got any specific challenges that you're open water? I think you do, don't you?

I've not told anybody this. I don't know if it'll happen, by the way, but I never know then. I'm meant to be swimming Windermere this year. Next year. I have signed up for it. But.

And remind me what the distance of Windermere.

10 miles.

10 miles.

It's a very long way.

Yeah.

And I've no idea at this stage whether I can do that. So the furthest I've swum so far and I'm moving more. I mean, I love open water swimming and I'm getting what I love. I think what it is, what's changed for me is I've done that lovely competitive stuff, which was great, but I'm moving more and more towards kind of adventure sports, really. I think that's what you call it. I'm not sure it even is a thing, is it? I don't know. But this year, what have I done? I've done a 5k swim and then I did this brilliant one, which is in Abu Dhufi in North Wales, and it's a 13k swim, which sounds. I mean, I can't run 13 kilometers at the moment, so it sounds like a really, really long way. It is a really long way, isn't it? 13K swimming. Right. But the brilliant thing about it is you get in at the beach and it's a tidal swimming, so you get shot along 5.

Whilst it's a 13k swim. Your Strava stats are going to look amazing.

Oh, my gosh. So normally it takes me about an hour and 40 to do 5K, right. I got to the 5K mark in 40 minutes.

Yeah. But the problem is you're never going to beat any of these Strava stats again, are you? You're never going to beat your 5k.

I'm not on Strava, so it's okay.

Oh, okay.

But no, it was amazing. And it was like I did it with that whole. You mentioned her spirit. So her spirit is a whole community and it's all about trying to get women particularly into sport and into moving more. And we did it. There was a whole gang of us there. And honestly, it was like. I mean, I love, like, things like Alton Towers, I love, you know, rides. So it was like that. But in a swim, we were going past these boats and I was like, oh, my gosh, I can hardly keep up with myself. It was incredible. Absolutely incredible. So I love that. And that was About. I think I was about two and a half hours or something, so. But yeah, it was definitely assisted by the tide.

And am I right in saying you've got her spirit swim challenge?

Yeah, we've got what we're trying to do because, I mean, I just see. I don't know what you see, but there's a huge explosion in open water swimming, isn't there?

Yeah, massive. And the whole appreciation of what cold water can do for our physical and mental health, actually, isn't it?

Yeah. And I am so part of the. Her spirit. We're doing a challenge throughout the winter, which is basically. I can't. I haven't got it here actually. Somewhere. Somewhere. Here it is, look. Here we go. It's basically trying to get people to swim all the way through the winter so to keep going in because, you know, I. I know because I changed for when I was doing Patagon man, and I knew it's gonna be really cold and it was. It was in December. So what I did was I got some really brilliant advice from Kerryanne Payne, actually, who's obviously, you know, our best open swimmer. She told me that you can, you can condition your body. And that's about all the science is about, isn't it, to be able to cope with cold water. So I have a hot tub, like one of those inflatable hot tubs at home. So I turned it into a cold tub so I didn't turn on the heating. And during. In the run up to Vatican Man, I would just get in that tub and build up. You know, like when it was sort of 8 degrees, 7, it got up, got down to about 7 or maybe 6 with no, no wetsuit on, anything. I just sit in a flipping tub for up to 10 minutes or so. But you can condition yourself. So that's what we're trying to do. We're just trying to encourage people over the winter because it's hard swimming over winter to just get in water and particularly open water, and there's lots of different challenges, but to just keep going through this winter. So hopefully I'll try and do that as well. I started in last year. I started. I probably stopped swimming in October, start again in February because I was desperate during lockdown. So desperate. And I went in, in Salford Keys when there was ice on the ice on the surface with a wetsuit, but it was still blooming awful.

Yeah, you're braver than I am. I was doing quite a lot of open water swimming last year with all the pools closed, but I have to admit I did wimp out when it, when it got cold.

Did you win? What, what degrees? Did you wimp out?

I don't know actually, I never, I never bothered checking the degrees. It was kind of. I think it was almost more about how that when the clocks changed and it was, it was. I need. I always do all my training early when I've got to get into a river in the dark. That seems like I'm probably, probably trying to switch to something else.

Oh no, I mean, I think, you know, and you've got to be super careful, haven't you? Because it is dangerous, you know, it's not to be messed with. But actually I've got a really good. Near where I am in Cheshire, there's a really good. There's a mirror where we can go swimming and I think they're going to take us all the way through the winter. So if they do, I will. Fingers crossed with all the. Her spiriters. Keep going.

Fantastic. Well, you know, I spend a lot of time down in Cornwall and I love the sea swimming around there. I mean it's just. Well, I mean sweet swimming anywhere really, as long as you're right. As long as you know what you're doing from a safety point of view because it is different. Different of course, but it is fantastic. And coming onto her spirit podcast I started listening to her spirit podcast. Went right at the start, I have to felt like, I have to admit, I felt like not really sure I'm supposed to be listening there.

You are really good.

You get some amazing guests on. And then I introduced my wife to it, who absolutely loves it, listens to it religiously, says how inspiring it is and it is a fantastic podcast. And so what was it about? Was it, was it. I think it was a lockdown initiated thing in the same way that this podcast was, wasn't it? Or did it exist?

No, no, no. So what happened was. So Annie Emerson, who, who does the her spirit podcast with me, is a world champion duathlete and she and I met because we were doing the triathlon TV coverage for the BBC and we just hit it off immediately. We both have got quite a lot of background. She used to live in Spain. I spent loads, did a Spanish degree, spent a lot of time, as you can hear, you know, living in Latin America and in Spain and we've just got very similar sort of. I don't know, I suppose you call it joie de vivre really. We just, we hit it off massively and then we did a. We did initially, did A podcast, which I was really pleased with the title. It was called the Tripod. Come on. Come on, Charlie.

That is good. I like that. In fact, if I thought about it with my. Yeah, you've trumped Tribathlon, I think.

Yeah, tried the Tripod. Come on. Anyway, what we did in that one was we took three people who'd never done a triathlon before. One of them was Jo Wiley, actually, one of them was Deborah James, who many of you might know is a. She's got stage called bowel cancer and she's a wonderful, brilliant broadcaster. She's got her own podcast. Amazing woman. She'd never done a triathlon and somebody else. And we took them basically from having never done a triathlon on that, on that whole dare to try triathlon journey, literally from the start to the beginning. So, you know, we did swimming sessions, we did. Chris Hoy came on our cycling section. It was brilliant. It was really fun. Anyway, that sort of ran its course because obviously they did their triathlons and kind of done and dusted and then we wanted to keep talking and particularly my interest is about trying to do, trying to pass on this little bit of joy that I've got from doing sport to anybody else, you know, particularly women, actually. I mean, you know, men also, but women particularly, because I just think there's so much around what it can do for you physically, mentally. It's made a massive difference to my life. And what's wonderful is that I do get responses from people who read my book who've gone and done a triathlon because they read that book. So that's my whole thing is to kind of like try and pass on the joy of moving. That's probably simply how to put it. And somebody, a male from her spirit, came and talked to us before lockdown about doing a podcast. And we're like, yeah, really good idea, let's do that. Let's get some amazing women on and, you know, hopefully pass on knowledge and pass on encouragement. And we did our first two podcasts at the beginning of March 2020, and we did them in a studio, Yep, tiny little studio, virtually sitting on each other's knee. Literally the week later we were in lockdown and we were going to do one once a month, but then we thought, well, we're in lockdown, let's do once a week. So we went to once a week. At the moment we're at once every two weeks. And it's, you know, it's been, I've really enjoyed it. We have spoken to some Incredible women. And we're going to carry on. We might check, you know, always looking at what we do differently. But I think that whole message about people can go away and think, right, okay, today I'm going to do something different. Then we're winning.

Yeah. And I think, you know, my podcast was created purely in lockdown of sitting there going, I've certainly got a lot more time than I used to have. But it is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Just this, you know, this. This ability to sort of get in contact with people that have done amazing things and just chat about the sport that you love. And also, you know, you learn so much by doing that, don't you?

Yeah, we've learned so much. And we've, you know, this week we've been talking to Dr. Megan Rossi. She's called. Who is. She's a gut health doctor. Absolutely brilliant. And you know what we do. It's really funny. I don't. It's probably like you. I know you've been asking me, thank you very much, by the way, for a while. But, you know, you can. You can set your sights high, can't you? Or whatever. Some of your guests are incredible. So, you know, when we sort of stalk people, we're like, right, okay, Megan, I've been trying to get for eight months she's had a baby. And now eventually we got her on the podcast. You see what I mean?

That's it. It's like me and the Brownlee. I keep stalking from different. Yeah, I know. I keep nudging them.

Go for Johnny.

Yeah.

Johnny will say yes.

Well, maybe you can. You can. You can be another person that gives.

Just a little nudge.

So how. You've just come to the end of a significant chapter in your life, haven't you? You've done 20 years on the red sofa. Before we kind of talk about the next chapter, what have been the highlights of your 20 years on the red sofa? Because, I mean, you've witnessed some incredible things in that time, haven't you?

Yeah, one of the highlights, I mean, yeah, it's been. It's been, you know, 20 years is a. Is a hell of a thing, isn't it? And it's just literally in December. So pretty much when this podcast goes out, it's the 24th of December. 20 years ago that I did was the first time I presented BBC Breakfast. And I think, you know, 24th of December tells you a story, doesn't it? Basically, everybody else, it was Christmas Eve.

No one wanted it.

Everybody else was off. And Then I didn't start presenting the program permanently as a sort of, you know, I mean, I started, you know, over many years. I did lots of program, but actually as one of the sort of main anchors nine and a half years ago. So it was a job. I always. I just love BBC Breakfast because I just love the. I love the mix, the eclectic mix of, you know, the really hard news stories and also those human interest stories, those wonderful warming things that make you, you know, want to give money or give. Or whatever it is. You know, we've had so many over the last. Particularly the last two years, actually, so. Highlights.

Yeah.

Difficult. I mean, there've been some terrible. You know, obviously, I've covered some horrific stories, stories that, you know, affect. I mean, that affect all of us or affect, you know, terrible things like the Manchester bombing, which I live. You know, I moved to the Northwest when BBC Breakfast moved to the Northwest, and that Magister bombing. We could very have easily been there on that night. My daughter had wanted to go to that concert and I had said to her, no, because she was doing her GCSE. So. But for her doing her GCSEs, we could very well have been there. So that really felt very, you know, part of my community, you know, right at the heart of kind of my community and where we were. So, you know, there are things that, you know, stay with you forever, really. And it was. What was the most kind of. It's been really. Yeah. The last two years, sort of reporting on a story that we were also living through, you know, like everybody else, was an extraordinary and kind of grueling thing to do, actually, because, you know, we're not just reporting on it. We're, you know, I luckily, very luckily, and I, touch wood, have not been badly affected by the immediate impact of coronavirus, but every single one of us has been impacted, haven't we? So, you know, there's been some tough times and highlights for me, I mean, the Velodrome, things like that, absolutely amazing. You know, I've had some incredible opportunities. I've got this ridiculous list. I did a list of people that I've interviewed, and honestly, I look at it and go, really? Yes, really. Everybody from Ed Sheeran to. To David Attenborough to Chris Hoy. I mentioned him. I don't know why I mentioned Chris twice. All those Olympians, you know, I'm incredibly lucky and I will probably never get opportunities like that again. But, you know, they've all gone in my little memory bank, or certainly my little photo bank. It's Brilliant.

I think it feels like you have to sort of almost gauge the mood of the nation on that because everyone, well, not everyone, but the majority I would imagine, of people are waking up and starting their day watching you guys on the red sofa. Is that sort of. Is that sort of quite a burden to take on or do you just have to just crack on and deal with. Do you put thought into that?

Oh, yes, absolutely. My main thought is always that, for example, I feel very much part of this huge, enormous BBC breakfast family because people are welcoming me into their homes. That kind of quite a vulnerable time of day actually, because, you know, you might be there and watching a bit of telly and you might have a five year old pop out, you might pop out to make a cup of tea and the five year old is still watching. So I'm always very conscious that it's a particular time of day and anybody of any age could be watching. So, for example, on that day of that awful day of the Manchester bombings, I have to tell the news in a way that is factual but not. But get the tone right. I mean, I don't want to scare people. You know, it's already horrific. What. The facts are already horrific enough. So I don't want. I'm very, very conscious. Was always very conscious that I didn't want to, you know, you just, just need to get it right. Do you sort of mean. And I'm not saying I did all the time, but hopefully on that day at least, you know, because it's a matter of respect for the people who've died and that all of their loved ones, isn't it? As well as everybody else, else. So yeah, it definitely was something I took really seriously because, you know, it's a big responsibility to tell people bad things, isn't it? And to tell them in a way that is not alarmist. I think that was always what it was to tell them with kindness and with warmth and all the rest of it. So yeah, it was definitely something that I was very conscious about. But. But mostly because it was, I suppose it was like I was talking to my family and my family have a huge age range as well. But yeah, it was, it was an incredible thing to be able to do. You talked about my proudest moment. And actually it's kind of sounds a bit weird but. And you probably don't normally talk about menopause on your podcast, but you'd be surprised.

Actually we covered it once or twice, so that's even on my list of things to talk to you about. So this is the perfect.

Oh, is it? Okay. So I think my proudest moment was when we did again. You know, my producers, obviously, I have quite a lot of conversations with them, and I give them ideas, and then they make them into much better things than the ideas I give them. So I'd asked for ages if we could do something about menopause on the program, because, A, I was going through it myself, and B, I knew that there was a huge response from the audience. Every time we mentioned it, even slightly, there was this massive response. And I, you know, I was super ignorant about it. And I thought that maybe we could do something to kind of like, you know, open. Open up the conversation, break down taboos, and hopefully educate people, you know, even, you know, lots of people. And anyway, so I told my producer, can we do something about menopause? Can we do something about. I kept nagging. I'm an endurance athlete, you know, you never want to mess with one of them, do you? Because they're never going to stop nagging. So, you know, there was always, oh, no, there's a general election. I accept that has to be covered. There was Brexit. I accept that has to be covered. But eventually she said to me, right, we're going to do menopause. We're going to do a whole week. I'm like, what? Are you serious? Yeah, we're going to do this. That she has all these amazing ideas. And she says, and we're going to. And the only way it's going to work is if you tell your story. I'm like, that wasn't the deal. And she goes, you know, Louise, it's going to work much better if you open up and talk about it. I'm like, yeah, I know that. But anyway, she. She persuaded me that I would tell everybody. Oh, my God, it's so embarrassing, isn't it? No, it's not embarrassing. It's really good. I tell 6 million people that I had been, you know, suffering from menopausal symptoms while sitting on the BBC breakfast sofa. And the reason I'm proud is that it had a massive impact. And it's still two years on. You know, people, you know, the whole conversation has hopefully moved on. And people, you know, that that week, and I'm not being boastful, changed people's lives because there were so many people who got help because of. Because they realized what was going on, were able to access help, were able to know that they weren't alone. So many men got in touch with me, me personally, actually. Saying, look, Louise, you've completely changed things for me. I was really worried about my loved one and, you know, and now I understand what's going on. So it just genuinely hopefully really kind of tumbled things around a bit and then hopefully threw things up in the air. And then lots of people came down with, with really huge positive change to their life. So that's what I was really, really.

Proud of doing that fantastic is brilliant. And so you've come to the end of this 20 year chapter.

What's the difficult questions now, Charlie?

Yeah, well, I know one thing that's in the next next chapter because it's. It would normally involve a jungle, wouldn't it? But it's now a castle. So you're gonna.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You're going to be part of I'm a celebrity, aren't you?

I don't know what you're talking about, Charlie.

Well, you're endurance athletes. I'm sure you will do very well in this environment.

I literally have no idea what you're referring to. So next 20 years. Gosh. I mean, what a question that is. That's really. Because. Oh, gosh, I mean, I didn't, you know, I did not give up my job lightly at all. I really, really loved it. Loved it. And. But you know, at the end of the day, what happened was the hours, I think, just got to me and I'm not made for those hours. You know, when I'm left to my own devices, I'll wake up really late, I go to bed really late. So that's what eventually kind of like ground me down.

And I genuinely, on that note, Dan Walker, I don't know if you saw it this morning, said that he. Yesterday he fell asleep standing up. So that's a pretty good indication that he's not getting enough sleep as well.

Oh no, but he's absolutely, he never, he honestly he's. He told me, I phoned him the other day. He says he's been falling asleep during phone calls, but he doesn't sleep. I mean, I, you know, I coped with it because I was really, you know, I was really kind of precise about my sleeping because I just knew I couldn't get through if I didn't take it kind of seriously. Do you sort of mean. And I probably would have had, you know, I don't know, you know, it could have had long term health impacts if you don't personally. So I used to, you know, sleep in the afternoon. I'd kind of, you Know, I was really, really, really good about that. But, yeah, it was absolutely exhausting. If Dan doesn't hardly sleep at all, I mean, even, you know, he's up late, he watches telly, he doesn't take naps. I'd have literally an hour and a half every single afternoon. Come rain or sunshine or a beautiful sunny day, that's what I'd have to do. So, yeah, so I'm enjoying, my gosh, I'm enjoying the lions. I'm up a bit, little bit early today to talk to you, to be honest. It was nine o'. Clock.

So you've missed BBC breakfast already then.

Yeah, exactly. Normally I would wake up when the program ends. So, yeah, it's a really difficult. I can't really answer the question about what the next 20 years holds. There are lots of people, as you've already indicated, asking me to do lots of different things, which is super exciting. I'm saying no to absolutely masses of things. I think what I've learned in the last five, six weeks is I'm not saying no to enough things because, you know, there's lots of things I want to do. I want to. I'm writing a book and I know you're going to talk to me about that. I want to do that. I want to carry on with my podcast. I want to be, you know, carry on, on that whole journey about, which is, as I say, passing on the magic of movement. But no, I have nothing set in stone at all. And that feels good. That feels really good. Because I don't know, you know, this time next year, I literally don't know what I will have done, which is really exciting.

Really exciting. That is amazing.

And you mentioned scary, but exciting.

Scary, but yeah, but, you know, where you've created a vacuum, you can now look at what. And the key is not to say yes to too many things, isn't it?

Well, that's. That's what everybody. And I knew when I was doing breakfast that, you know, I'm so involved in the program and, you know, the program is not. I'm not just working on the program for those three and a quarter hours. It's sort of like it's not 24 hours a day, but all the time I'm watching the news and I'm listening to this and I'm watching that, you know, and, you know, all the time, I mean, was in constant preparation for it. And, you know, you say that thing about, you know, I just knew when I was there, I couldn't decide what I was going to do next. So I knew I had to sort of step away, create a blank space. But you're right, and into that space comes lots of different things. And I think, you know, as I say, I haven't made decisions. It's, you know, and we'll see and we'll just wait and see. But, yeah, you know, you close one door and they say that thing don't. It sounds like a terrible cliche. Close one door, lots of others will open. That is true. I don't know which ones I'm going to walk through, but, you know, there are definitely doors opening and they're super exciting and I'm having really interesting conversations with people I wouldn't have had conversations with before. Yeah.

And we've talked about your first book, Dare To Try, which is brilliant and I know has inspired lots of people to get into triathlon and just been enjoyed by people that already enjoy triathlon. But you're on your next. One of your next projects is your writing another book, aren't you? Which I'm delighted to hear about. So tell me about that next book.

And I told you that I can't be on this call for very long because I'm literally in the middle of a writing. What I call a writing week. So. It's called Adventures With Superwomen. I always love a title. Can we tell? Start with the title and then work backwards, which is really quite alarming. It's called Adventures With Superwomen and it's a mixture of everything we've been talking about. It's a mixture of my love of sport and meeting and talking to other people, and I'm talking to women, particularly, because, you know, I think, to be very honest, that often women's stories don't get told. And I'm really passionate about that and I'm really passionate about giving people, you know, letting them have a space to have. Be able to tell their stories. So what? So the basic premise is that I go and I meet these amazing women and I go and do the sport that they love. And it's been so. So far. It's been. I've done five so far and they've literally been five of my best days since I've left BBC Breakfast because, you know, I go and do. You know, I love sport and I love other people's sports and so many of these things I've never even done before. And then I just get to chat. And the wonderful thing about doing it as a book and not doing it on telly is that you get a Very different conversation because you haven't got all the TV cameras. It sounds silly in a way. Or not even a podcast, you know, it's just me and them chatting and it's been a great experience. And as today is literally one of my writing days, I love writing, but I also hate it because, you know, I don't know, what do you write at all?

I do. I have four books published.

Oh my gosh, I didn't know that. I feel terrible.

No, no, that's absolutely fine.

Do you love and hate it?

Pardon?

Do you love and hate it?

I do love and hate it. But I know that I am a much happier person when I'm writing than when I. When I don't have a creative project on the go. So I know it does a lot of good.

That's very interesting. I love the actual writing. What I. What I. What I. I just. Yes, of course, you know, because you have to do the research and I think, you know, I just want to get in and do the writing. Do you sort of mean. And time, you know, that's why I've given you a deadline today, because I just find, you know, I'll go, right, I'm going to write for 45 minutes and it goes so quick. There's nothing in life like writing time for me. And I just find, yeah, I'm really, really enjoying it. But that's whole thing, isn't it, about deadlines? And I know when the deadline is and I'm already like, oh my gosh, I'm not sure I'm going to make the deadline. And I know they can move a bit. Are you good with your deadlines?

Well, they're usually my deadlines rather than I'm. I'm kind of normally setting my own deadlines. So, yes, they can move a bit.

Yeah, there's a deadline and gosh, you know, it's August, I don't think. I mean, you know, if I can make it by August, it would be amazing. But yeah, I really have to set myself, you know, like today I was meant to finish this chapter that I'm writing. I was meant to finish it yesterday and 100% must finish it today. But yeah, I'm absolutely loving it and I'm loving meeting all these women and hopefully it won't be out for some time yet because publishing again is so strange to me. Working on live television, you know, it's just like, bang, out, obviously gone, finished. And publishing has such a long lead.

Time takes forever.

Yeah, yeah, I'm very excited about that.

It Sounds similar to. Not in a. I hope this is not. Sounded like criticism. It sounds similar to the concept of Alistair Brownlee's book Relentless where he went off and interviewed different sports people like Ronnie o', Sullivan, Cillian, Jorna, footballers, cricketers. And it's absolutely brilliant. I really, really enjoyed it. So, yeah, I can't wait to. Hopefully it'll work if I'm allowed to read Adventures of Superwomen.

Of course you are. You know, that's not to say that Adventures of Supermen can't be written afterwards, is there?

No, well, I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that'll be a follow up for that. And so we've talked about your books, but are there any other books, I always ask people, are there any other books that have inspired you on your journey or you find yourself recommending to other people?

I read Chrissie Wellington's book, which I really enjoyed and then there's that book and I can't remember, I haven't got it on me here, but there's book. There's that book about that epic Kona battle.

Oh, Iron War.

Oh, I love. I'm trying to get that made into a movie.

Oh, wouldn't it be brilliant? Yes.

That's my favorite triathlon book.

The only thing is, my understanding is that Mark Allen and Dave Scott actually don't like the book. Obviously the guys that feature in it.

Yeah, yeah.

So maybe that might be a challenge on the film side, but it is a great book. I totally agree.

I mean, I just think it's such an epic story, isn't it? And I love that about. So you. Those would be my kind of most. My triathlon books. And then I had all sorts of. I can't, you know, what was it? I can't remember. What's that one? It's called something like get the fuck up or something or get the fuck on with it. What is it called? Sorry, you're gonna have to be that up.

No, no, that's fine. We can allow you to swear.

Is it the subtle art. I'm just quoting a book. What is it?

The Subtle art of not giving a fuck.

Yes. Yeah, that one as well.

That is if anyone's going to read that. I would suggest listening to the audiobook instead because really. Oh my God. I don't think I've ever laughed so much through a personal development book. It is just because, well, I mean, maybe you laughed as much through reading it, but there are some lines in there and you're like, that Is, I mean, I can't believe you're telling me in that way. If you're not offended by swear words, you should not read that book.

Yeah, I'm not a big. I'm not a big self help book person, really. And that's the other thing that I'm really excited about leaving breakfast as well, is that I can. Because. Because I used to be this big pile beside my bed of books that I, you know, I mean, you know, would have to read. So I didn't have a, you know, there's often. I was reading all the time, but it was always books that I had to read for the program. So now being able to read books that I want to read is a massive joy actually for me. Absolute joy.

Brilliant. And you, I know you've had an ankle operation, haven't you?

Yes.

How are you on that recovery journey? Are you, you know.

Oh, gosh. So that. So my ankle operation happened. So when I was training for. So I did Patagon man and then about, Gosh, was it six months later, seven months later, I did Norseman. And obviously I had to train in between the two, didn't I? And I was training for north, training for Norseman, and I was doing my last run. You know what? It's like, there's pressures on. You've done all the big runs. This is my big last run. And I was going. So I ran up Snowdon and ran down Snowdon, which was amazing, by the way. And I did actually, for me, run both, pretty much both ways. I turned off my Garmin. Massive. I'm not on Strava, but I love my Garmin. Turned off my Garmin to get all the stats. My ankle went over on the curb of the pavement. So I'd finished my run and it was one of those days where I was super under pressure because I was actually having my 50th birthday party, even though I was 51 that week, that weekend. And my husband David had said to me, don't go, don't go to Snowden. It's ridiculous. You're gonna hurt yourself. I was like, no, why not quit? It's gonna be totally fine. I'm just gonna run up Snowden, run down Snowden and be totally fine. And that was totally fine. What was not fine was walking on the pavement to the car. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, I went over my ankle and literally I felt something rip and I was like, oh. And you know that pain of that, you know when you were really in pain, that kind of sick feeling. I Was in so much pain, I got in the car, drove home, ankles swelled up massively. I have that friend who, who's a doctor, but he's not a foot doctor. Oh, don't worry. Just take some ibuprofen, strap it up, you'll be fine. Mostly for my party. So I did that and it was, you know, anyway, it was obviously bad and I think it was about five weeks out of. Out of Norseman. I just thought, well, you know, trained. You know what it's like, you've trained so hard, there's nothing that's going to stop you or pretty much nothing that's going to stop you doing the race. So I just stopped running because I just thought, well, I'll just see what happens on the day. Anyway, long story short, I went to Norseman and did. Did Norseman, which was amazing. The run was brutal because unlike Patogan, man, it's the longest. You know, it was just again, really, really hot on the day. Unseasonably hot, like 32 degrees or something on this hot tarmac. Anyway, finished Norseman. Amazing. Loved it. Then went and did, I think, four marathons. So I did one marathon at Norseman. Then I did a swim run. Have you ever done a swim run, Chuck?

No, I haven't. I like this. There's a really brilliant sounding one in Cornwall, but no, I haven't.

Oh, yeah, there's the. Is it a hokey cokey one?

Oh, I think it's man against coast, I think.

Oh, is it? Right? I love swim run because I'm, you know, we've talked about open water swimming, adventure swimming. Oh, my gosh, I love that. So I did a swim run in the Lake District, which was swimming in Coniston, Grasmere, Windermere. It was incredible. It was marathon distance run with nine kilometers of swimming. Wow, nine or seven. Anyway, my foot wasn't good, but I finished that and then I did. Anyway, long story short, did loads of marathons. Did a marathon in Namibia for Sport Relief.

Oh, no, no, no. I was going to say the Lewa Marathon is in Kenya, isn't it?

But yeah, over these sand dunes. And eventually did the virtual London Marathon in October last year. And my foot was not good during all of those. And eventually I just thought after that I was like, right, okay, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go see the doctor and see what's actually wrong with it. And he did a scan and he said, you know, I knew it was bad. Like, I knew it was hurt. And he said, yep, you snapped your Ligament. You've pulled off some bone.

How on earth were you doing all of those things?

Oh, my gosh.

And.

Oh, you know, there's no way. You know, there's no way. But surgery really back from that because the bone was sort of probably too much detail sort of floating around my foot anyway, so. So I had the operation on that in November last year. And, you know, my foot now is Superfoot because. Because basically when I was doing all those marathons all the time, my foot would go over because I had no ligament. Can you imagine? It would just, like go over. Super. You know, there was no control on my foot or my ankle anyway, so I had that done nearly a year ago. And it is great. The foot is great. But I'm still, you know. Of course, then you can't walk. I couldn't. I was only started to walk in sort of January. I was really hoping to do the London Marathon this year, but I have just not got back to, you know, I'm just not. I'm so far from that. I'm sort of at 5k at the moment still. And that's a long recovery and it's boring and it's frustrating. And then I look at the hills and go, gosh, I used to just be able to get up in the morning and, you know, run. Run 20, you know, run a half marathon in the hills and genuinely think nothing of it, really. And it's, you know, anybody who's had an injury will know that that's just hugely. It's just hugely disappointing, isn't it? So I'm working on it. I'm working on it. And part of my adventures of SuperwomanU, I've got some amazing stuff planned with that. So hopefully my. Hopefully this time next year I'll be able to maybe run the London Marathon. That's my goal next year.

Brilliant. And it's funny, isn't it? Because I think I certainly heard you say it before. I think you said it earlier on in this podcast, actually. The running was the bit that you didn't enjoy. But then actually when you can't run, I think it's the bit when I can't run if I couldn't swim or I couldn't bike. It's really annoying. But I seem to deal with it better than when I can't run. I think running seemed. Even though I would have always described running as sport with the fun bits taken out, I really miss running. If I can't do it, I think it's just so good for you.

It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I didn't realize until my foot was operated on, actually, that I have over those years built up, like you say, a kind of love of running. And you can walk, you know, of course you can walk. But there is something about all of them, really. And this is why I do more the long distances. There's something about being able to go very far for me, very far in our beautiful environment. We live in the UK under my own steam, you sort of mean. And I really miss that from running. So hopefully. And I, you know, I'm not a fast runner, but I just like to be able to go a long way. I think that's what it is. So we'll see. So hopefully it will get better. It really will.

Well, I'm sure it will. And I look forward to watching what you achieve in the coming, well, coming weeks and months and years, because I have no doubt it's going to be a very, very exciting journey. Louise, it's been an absolute pleasure to get you on and talk about a subject that you're clearly incredibly passionate about.

Oh, thank you, Charlie. But thank you so much for asking me because as you see, yeah, I love, you know, I'm a triathlete. You're a triathlete. We clearly love it. We clearly love talking about it.

Yeah, well, it's been absolutely brilliant. And yes, I wish you luck in all of your adventures that are on, on the horizon.

Thank you very much. I'm going to need it.

I'm sure you'll agree that Louise's stories and enthusiasm for triathlon is really infectious. If you want to find out more about Louise, then the easiest place is to go to our Instagram and she's louiseminchin. And also if you want to find out more about her spirit, the community and the podcast, her spirit.co.uk is the best place to find it. And I encourage you to listen to some of her episodes too. And I wanted to welcome back former guest and former guest co host. But again, another welcome back for Claire Fudge of fourth Discipline. So Claire is a neutral nutritionalist that specializes in sports athletes, but in particular, one thing that she's about to launch in January is group coaching. So whether you're an age grouper, elite athlete or a professional, if you want to gain the edge on your performance through your nutrition and fueling, you can join up with group sessions that she's starting in January. And if you want to find out more about that, email claire@helloorsdiscipline.com. and that's the number four so4th4disccipline.com and I'm sure she will be delighted to share with you more information on that. So welcome back. Claire Fudge of fourth Discipline. So welcome back, Claire, thanks for joining me again. What did you make of that conversation with Louise?

I loved it. I love the fact that just the story of like, how she got into triathlon and how she's kind of sort of found herself in like these extreme triathlons and all the challenges that she kind of has put herself in, I guess, to a certain extent.

Did it take you back to when you first started triathlon?

Do you know? In a way it did. And actually it just kind of drew my attention to the. What happens to be in the news today about the pub up on Tarn Hill up in North Yorkshire, about everyone stranded up there. And that's one of the hills I used to train up when I lived in North Yorkshire. And just her attitude towards kind of like not really knowing what she was doing at some of those races and just kind of turning up and going, oh, like, how do you put the bike on the rack? And actually the not knowing sometimes is actually quite a good thing because it doesn't stress you out. And that just kind of made me think about the times where I was kind of in North Yorkshire climbing hills. And people would say, have you done so and so hill? And I'm like, no. And I just think actually I was so much better not to know what that hill was like. And then her kind of like hiding in the quarterly because actually the known becomes almost more scary, I think when you first start out. And that's kind of what came across to me when you first start out, it's kind of like a get on and do sort of attitude. And then actually as you kind of progress in triathlon, you know what to expect. And actually you have more of. Maybe you have more expectations of yourself, but there's more of that kind of pressure and kind of fear in a way, isn't there? And excitement as well.

You're right. I mean, for me it was. It was a bit like listening to a book in a way, in that it just took me back to the. The emotions that are running through you. And they are. They're absolutely, totally different emotions, you know, from your first triathlon to your second to third. It's, you know, they've been nothing but positive experiences for me. But it was just really lovely chatting to her about it. And I think her, the way she tells stories around things like the Portaloo or the velodrome, really. I mean, I can't believe that many people start their triathlon career in a velodrome. But it was the kind of principles around it that spun out from it was either really lovely and that kind.

Of inner athlete, because I didn't know she actually swam like when she was a child or teenager. And the way that she kind of told that story about actually suddenly that inner competitive athlete suddenly came out, you know, about was it Dan who had said to her that I wouldn't let a girl beat me or something along those lines. And I thought that really sort of. That really sort of hit home with me. I'm like, I'm absolutely one of those people as well.

That was Bill Turnbull.

Oh, was it Bill?

It was Bill. But no, you're absolutely right. And I think what it made me think is, particularly as I've got daughters that are teenagers at the moment, that there is that often that growing pressure amongst their peers to actually stop sports at that age. And it's such a shame it took her that long to kind of rediscover it again, I suppose. Fantastic that she did rediscover it. But I'm very conscious with my daughters and they're younger than that at the moment, but in the coming years I can see that that could quite easily become a pressure.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think having also like talking about girls as well having more fema because I think, I mean there's probably some statistics, but I think a lot more men continue, don't they? Or boys that continue with where they're playing football and that's part of their sort of social, kind of their socializing as well. And I think traditionally girls have kind of like stopped at a kind of, you know, 17, 18 year old age and then get back into it like kind of Louise does. But I think because there's so much more talk and research into kind of females and females in sport, you know, and the rise in things like female football players, for example, you know, and it shouldn't have to be that way. But I think now that more, there's more female sports people that are really well known, I think that actually will be interesting to see whether that actually kind of transfers into more females and women kind of continuing sort of throughout school and into university and beyond or wherever.

But having people like Louise that are in very much the public eye, but seeing them because it was quite easy to follow. I watched BBC News, BBC Breakfast on and off for years and years. So it's Been very easy, sort of loosely to follow her going from the velodrome right the way through to doing her first triathlon to representing Team gb. So it is, you know, she will have inspired a huge number of people to go on and do triathlon, which is, which is fantastic. And I suppose, yeah, there's plenty of other people that would be in, you know, in the limelight that would be doing the same thing.

And I think also her, you know, the age isn't a factor at all. And, you know, she was talking about kind of when she first sort of picked it up and the triathlon and then kind of getting into more of the extreme triathlons and her 50th kind of, what am I going to do? And, oh, it happens to be Patagonia, man. You know, and actually, and then her bringing in, like, about kind of menopause and things like that, and her being in the limelight and talking about things like that in terms of that, you know, their age doesn't stop us from doing things. And I think, you know, there's probably a lot of men and women out there that think, you know, in my 40s or in my 50s or 60s even, I can't possibly take up something again. And actually, you know, we hear some fantastic stories from people, you know, that are in their 60s, 70s, 80s, aren't, you know, even racing, you know, So I think, I think, you know, you're right. I think her being in. In the limelight will probably, you know, it's probably inspired a lot of older age age groups as well. I'm not calling her old, by the way. Age is not a factor, but. But, you know, maybe people that have done sport in the past and then sort of come. Come back into it or thought about going back into it and thought, can't possibly get into Lycra now, you know. So I think, yeah, absolutely inspiring.

I mean, I just find that it is amazing amongst the triathlon world that you can take up a Sport in your 30s or 40s and then go on to represent your country. I mean, it just. There can't be many. There can't be many sports where that's possible. I just think it's. I just think that's absolutely incredible. And I just need to continue. I need patience and time and assistance, I think, to have a chance. But it is amazing.

But I think that's the lovely thing about triathlon as well, is that, you know, there are three sports. So that does mean that if we get injured, there's always another sport. You know, there's always something you can do. And I think actually, although I guess in two sides, it takes up a lot of time because you've got three sports on another side. You know, actually if you have got, you are taking up later on in life and you have got family or work commitments, there's always something you can do. You know, there's nothing easier than if you're traveling to actually just take a pair of trainers with you and you can do your run sessions or, you know, it might be a hotel swimming pool, but it might be small, but you can still do a session, you know. So I think triathlon does lend itself to being able to train more or less wherever, whenever, and kind of semi fitting around life as well, but you can make it fit around life. And I think that's the thing.

So what about these extreme triathlons? Have you, have you developed a taste for doing an extreme triathlon?

Do you know, I have. When, when they first sort of came about, that was one one of the things I looked at and I thought I, you know, I would, I would love to do something like that. The only thing that really puts me off is the cold. I just not, I don't. I think I have the spirit of adventure and would absolutely grin and bear it and get through it and love it, but I don't know whether I would. How I would be in that extreme temperatures for most of these races. The water is freezing.

I was really intrigued that actually that didn't seem to impact Louise with her Reynard that, you know, she always went straight to the numb stage as opposed to, you know, going. Spending as long in the screaming pain stage. I'm sure that, I'm sure it still means it's painful, but I was intrigued that, you know, she didn't wear gloves because her hands were going to go numb. Whichever.

I wonder also, like when she was talking about Patagonia man, like starting out in the dark. I wonder if that makes. There must be some psychology behind it, whether it makes a difference, whether. Because you can't see maybe everything around you, whether it's almost easier to keep going because, like time isn't going so slowly. I don't know, because you can't really see where you're going. You're just following people in front of you.

Swimming in the dark, though, in a, in a lake that you know is home to orca, otherwise known as killer whales. That must be quite intimidating though. I mean, it does sound like Patagon man. Sounds like an amazing Race Norseman Definitely. And Swiss man is very much on my bucket list, I think. Yeah. Well, I'm really looking forward to her next book. I don't know if you have you read Dare to Cry?

No, I didn't. I actually didn't realize she had a book out. But when. When you said that and then she's writing another one, I was like, I have to look out for it now. So something else to me, she talked about her piles of books by her bedside when she was working, and I feel very much like that I have things that I want to read and things that I should read, and I end up the should read pile other than the one to read.

Well, the Dare to Try is just. It's just a really lovely. I mean, you've heard some of the. The stories from it, you know, the Velodrome, the Portaloo, those sorts of stories. But it just. It's just a lovely book that takes you. Or took me back to when I started triathlon, so I really enjoyed it. But her new book does sound sound really good. Now, one thing that did put me on the spot a little bit or caught me by surprise when I was. When I was interviewing her, literally, I think the day before I interviewed her, the sun released the fact that, you know, the list of I'm a celebrity, get me out of here contestants. Is that what they call. I don't know.

I think so, yeah.

And so I was totally oblivious to this because I'm not a reader of those sort of newspapers, but one of my friends said about it, and I was like, oh, right, okay, I need to ask about this. So I ask her about it, and I get a total blank response. So apparently when I spoke to her afterwards, I think the son had leaked it and she wasn't allowed to confirm or deny. But now that we are, now it's out in the public domain. Have you been watching any of. I'm a celeb.

I haven't, but I actually, I do. Again, like, they're the kind of things, like the challenges that I think I put myself through. Like, I love. I just love stuff like that. So it fits in very much with, like, everything that she was talking about on the podcast is that personality type just to go and get stuck in and do it. Have you watched? Have you watched?

I watched little, so I have never watched. And I'm a celebrity get me out of here. But because Louise was on this one, I decided I would watch. I've watched some of it. My daughters have been watching avidly. It's actually Been they, they lost a few days to the weather, haven't they? Yeah, but I know that Louise won the first challenge, which was a high drop, I think. And then I was watching one of the eating contests where they were eating everything from eyes to brains to pieces of body, parts of bodies that won't best not mentioned now. But I mean, I think she's the sort of person that will do really, really well in that and I think she will continue, you know, because she's the sort of person that embraces the challenge. But also it's very easy to warm to her, isn't it? So I suspect that she will do very well and I will be, I will be cheering her for sort of overwhelming.

I'll get on and have a look. I think that's that athlete like mindset as well, isn't it? You know, if you can put yourself through something like some of these extreme triathlons, you just get through and you do it, don't you? So, you know, you must compartmentalize probably some of those challenges as well.

And just because of your area of expertise with regards to nutrition and hydration, actually understand that Louise has worked with precision hydration quite a lot over the years. I didn't specifically talk to her about precision hydration, but I was chatting to Andy at PH afterwards and he said that they've done quite a lot of work with Louise to help her get over the challenges that she had. She had in Chicago. Was there anything from a nutritional or hydration point of view that you picked up in the conversation?

Yeah, she didn't, she didn't talk too much about it. I did pick up on the Chicago bit about, you know, actually at that point where you're just really struggling and somebody else points out that you're really struggling, but you just take anything on board. And you know, you said about the Coke, that's always really interesting, isn't it? Because it's actually, you know, one of the, one of the kind of least effective things in terms of taking on nutrition and being able to absorb it that you could not. Least effective, but not particularly effective. But actually that's always our go to like when we're not feeling particularly well. Like actually the coke seems to settle things down. Um, and you know, so I think at that point in time when you're racing, you know, even if you haven't tried it out, she's probably better off to have had something rather than. Not rather not have something. But yeah, the lovely thing that I pulled out from it was the good British cup of tea in the Patagonia man. Because that again, that's the kind of thing that I can just, you know, I can just resonate with in terms of, you know, that her kind of seeing her husband and it had been a long kind of however many miles until she'd seen him and then all she wanted was a good cup of tea and then she'd be fine and she was on her way again. So yeah, we need tea flavoured tea flavoured gels and drinks, I think way.

Forward and a flask of hot tea on the Arc Ultra.

Yeah, I'm considering this. I think this will be very comforting actually. And it's interesting, isn't it, because I think we have. When you do endurance events, I think you have certain things that you do for comfort and not particularly for whether that's kind of psychological or, you know, from a physiological perspective in terms of putting an extra layer on or whatever it might be. Like there are these things I think we do to comfort ourselves in a certain, in a certain way. So it might be your, I don't know, your favorite pair of socks that you wear or it might be something that you take on the bike. Like sometimes people take like a little kind of mini sort of chocolate bar. Like it's not really going to do anything nutritionally but that's all they really fancy or they want it at a certain point in time. So I don't know if you've ever done that before racing like in long distance races.

I haven't really. I've always been quite sort of scientific in it but I suspect heading towards ultramarathon. I will lean towards some more comfort food in there because you do just become, it becomes so monotonous having things like gels and sweet stuff and flapjacks and everything else, doesn't it? That actually the idea of. Well, as the arc 50s in Cornwall, the Cornish pasty might well make a feature, a part of, part of my strategy, I think.

Nutrition fan. Interesting. I think it's interesting though because actually with my clinical background Head on as well, you do actually get a real taste fatigue. So it's really common and you know, you will know from doing long events that even varying the flavours and you go, oh, I've actually got a watermelon flavoured gel that's amazing because all I could find in my, in my bento box were orange flavored, whatever it might be. So it's that kind of thing, isn't it that it's just like that you just really want you know, really want something different. One of the things that I used to do when I first started racing, actually, is I used to carry some extra strong mints. So I used to have those in my. In my run belt or put in my pockets when I started running just to clear my mouth. So it was like a palate cleanser almost.

Yeah.

And a pair of teeth. But actually, you could achieve the same thing with Kendall Mint Cake, I suspect.

Yeah. Yeah, they are interesting. Like, actually, I was actually looking at Kendall Mint cake, I think it was last year, and noticed that they do a whole host of gels now and sports bars, and so it's very interesting.

Oh, we might have to research those on the arc.

Yeah. But that peppermint taste is really nice. And there is a little bit of research, actually, with menthol in terms of a cooling effect of having. Having that peppermint taste or that minty taste in your mouth.

Oh, that's interesting. Maybe. Maybe we're gonna have to be trialing some Kendall Mint cake between now and New York.

So although it has a cooling effect, Charlie. So supposedly does. I'm not sure we want to be any cooler.

Well, if Anna. If Anna's three storms during that one day of racing is anything to go by, then, yeah, we need to be a little bit careful with that.

But it'll be fun. You see, that's where the hot cup of tea will come into it even more then.

Yeah, absolutely.

Exactly what you need to get through.

Absolutely. Well, Claire, it's great to catch up with you, as always. And I mean, I know, I know. I really enjoyed interviewing Louise. I think she's a lovely lady, but very much an inspiring lady, too. So I can't wait to see how she gets on with the. With I'm a Celebrity.

Yeah. And the next book as well. That. That sounds really good.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So. And I would definitely recommend the first book. So thanks, Claire. Lovely to catch up as always. And for everybody else, keep on training. If you've enjoyed this triathlon podcast, please do go to Apple Podcasts and. And rate it and review it. It massively helps us to deliver a better podcast. It helps people find it as well. So, yeah, go to Apple Podcasts, give us some feedback, give us a rating and a review, and please share it with your friends, because ultimately, that's what allows us to keep delivering more and more of these podcasts. And don't forget to download the tribathlon app for more amazing podcasts, but also to help you train, compete, and to build your tribe.