Dirty Vegan Endurance with Matt Pritchard

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding. And I'm laura sidall and this is the tribathlon podcast.

I was in really good shape after doing that 30 hours and 30 days with the vegan diet and my swim times, my bike times and my run times were better as well.

That was Matt Pritchard, and this episode is Dirty Vegan Endurance. Hey, Sid, how are you doing?

I'm very well, thank you. How are you? I hear you had a big weekend up in the Peak District.

I did, actually. I had a really lovely couple of days. Well, no, it was only a day in the Peaks. I just drove up a friend of mine from Strategic Coach lives in Bakewell, and he signed up to Marathon de Sable. And so this is a friend, actually. He's just launched his own podcast. It's a podcast called Honey, I Blew up the Business and it's brilliant. It's really good. Anyway, so we got loads to chat about and he signed up for mds. So I said, well, I'll drive up to the Peaks and we'll go for a longish run and we can chat.

And then really, really the driver, the motivation was some Bakewell tart, wasn't it? And getting a cake or two. At Bakewell, I didn't have any cake at all.

I was very good.

But I'll tell you what, we did.

Have instead, which was much better. So we basically went off. He planned a route. He told me it was 15 miles. It blatantly wasn't. It was 19 miles. It's very hilly. Um, but it was absolutely brilliant. The weather had the forecast that it was going to piss it down the whole time, and it. And it didn't. We got really lucky. So stunning views, some amazing edges, and just great, great fun. And then we finished in Bakewell at the Thornbridge Brewery, which has got this really lovely open.

Better than a Bakewell tart.

Exactly.

Although we were both rock and roll. So we were drinking their 0.5% beer and eating pizza with vegan cheese.

Blimey.

Proper rock and roll.

Is that even pizza? I'm gonna offend all the vegans out here. Is that even pizza? If it's vegan cheese, is that, like, does it count?

You know what? I was inspired by this week's guest, Matt Pritchard, and I was like, I'm gonna have the vegan. And also by a future guest, Phoebe. Phoebe Liebling. So I was like, no, I'm gonna have the vegan pizza. He was really good. Honestly, if you hadn't told Me it was vegan cheese. I wouldn't have known. It probably tasted even better because I.

If you'd. By the sounds of it, you'd done 90 miles, I think anything would have probably tasted pretty good after that with a beer washed down.

It was, it was like, it was fantastic.

You weren't trying to go for one of these, you know, fastest known times. Ultra running as John Kelly's just broken. Broken a record.

We definitely weren't going for any fastest known times. We were very, we were very much ambling. But it was lovely. But yeah, John Kelly has broken Damian Hall's record, hasn't he? And taken. Because I think, I think I'm right in saying that Damian hall took John Kelly's record last year and now John Kelly's gone and taken it back and knocked another, I think by more than three hours. So it's, I mean totally, I mean we're talking about a 19 mile run and they're doing 260 miles in.

So just explain what exactly what record did it was it that they were going for there?

So it's basically the 260 mile Pennine Way and, and he did it in under 60 hours. So.

And for the, for the uneducated amongst us, the Pennine Way goes from where to where?

Well, it goes through the Pennines. I don't know where it goes. I don't know where it starts and.

Ends in the Spine of the UK or something I've heard it called or something, but I couldn't.

The Spine race is the official race.

If you do race.

In fact, it's funny that. So Dan, the guy I was running with is doing the Spine sprint. So the Sprite. The spine sprint is 48 miles.

Okay. So that. Yeah, just the short. This. Okay, fair enough. But you know, if he's doing marathon disablers, that will be a sprint. He will be doing sport method.

So he's building up to it. So that was, that was really cool. And yeah, whether, whether Damien's going to go back and have another pop at his. At that, I don't know. But yeah. So what's been happening in your world anyway? How's training and what's been going on in your world?

Yeah, all good. I can't remember where we last spoke. Was I back in Girona or was I in Lanzarote? I can't remember back in Girona. I mean I was just training as normal at the moment, head down to that extent. But I was glued to a lot of the coverage we had. It was the North American Championships Ironman for Ironman at the weekend in Tulsa, which is. Oh, Oklahoma.

I think we established this last time.

I think it's Oklahoma, but it was a new race, so inaugural race. So kind of, I guess, yeah, lots of course records seeing as no one else, no one had done it before and it just had some big names racing and I guess the first. Yeah, first full distance we've really had this year. So. And on them and they had horrible weather. It looked like it was pissing with rain all day. It looks miserable to be fair. And also when there's not that many crowds because I think a lot of crowds. Although it's funny because afterwards everyone was like, oh my God. And today because it's Monday, everyone posts about their race and they were saying how amazing the crowd support was. And I was like, well, I was looking at live coverage and it didn't look like there was anybody watching. One, because it's raining and two, because it's Covid. And Iron man had rightly said, you know, encouraged people to not come down and watch until, you know, watch watched on stream. So I'm not sure how. What races they've been to. If they then thought this was amazing. Spectators and support. But what happened? So in the men's race, it was Patrick Langer who's clearly been working on the swim and the bike and was in the front group. I think there was four or five guys off the front by the end of the bike. Patrick Langer was in there. So as soon as they started riding, it was just like he. He just went off and looked supreme as he always does when he was running. So he won. And then Jan Van Berkel ran himself into second, which was pretty amazing. And I am trying to think who came third. It was, it was his pro. Not well, his debut in the forward distance, Daniel Beckergaard I think was it. And I'm gonna crucify myself because I must possibly got that wrong. But he's a real huge up and coming talent. And that was. Yeah, that was his first full distance. And yeah, just a really. But they beat, you know, really impressive performance. He, you know, he learned a lot. He said he lost his nutrition and all this sort of stuff and beat some big names. You know, as with a full distance race, lots of people don't have a day. Um, so there are a few dropouts. And on the women's side, Daniela Ryf one. But she didn't look super comfortable. Um, I mean she did have a 14 minute lead off the bike, which is. Which is pretty impressive against the caliber of other women racing. But by the end of the run she was only. It was ended up being five minute one second, which is very important and I'll come back to that in a minute. Um, she was only 5 minutes 1 second ahead of second. Who was Kat Matthews from the uk.

And she just looks again, recent guest of the podcast.

That's right, yeah, of course. And yeah, Daniela just didn't look. It just looked a struggle for about the last sort of 10k on the run. And she said afterwards, yeah, she was really hurting and, and in fact, funnily enough, they didn't interview her. They actually interviewed second and third place first at the finish line before they went back to Daniella. So we think she might have gone to medical for that reason. But yeah. So Kat Matthews had an amazing race. Well, I say amazing as if it's a surprise. It's not a surprise because she is ridiculously talented and has a lot to give in the sport. But she came second and Sky Munch from the US came third. But the 5 minute 1 second, which is what Kat was behind Daniela Ryf. Kat got a five minute penalty in the race on the bike. So there's a lot of shoulda, woulda, coulda, and it's easy to say afterwards, oh, if she hadn't have got that five minute penalty, it would have been, you know, a great race.

So that one second is quite important.

But you know, she did stand down for five minutes and I don't know whether that does help you or not help you. When you're doing a full distance race, you've still got to run an ironman. But effectively she did have five minutes rest of rest. I say in air quotes also, you know, Daniella was so far ahead. If she'd have been, if Kat had been closer behind her, would she have been able to find another level? Possibly. So, you know, it's, it's a good story to say that Kat was In the end, 5 minute 1 second behind Daniela Ryf, but she had a 5 minute penalty. But ultimately it's two different races. If she hadn't have had that, that penalty. I don't think the penalty was intended. I think it was from slotting in. I didn't see the point at when she got the penalty, but she certainly doesn't need to draft off anyone. Kat was certainly doing a lot of the work from what I saw at the front of the pack at the same time. So I think it was probably just a misjudgment call from Kat in the riding when she caught the group and stuff. But yeah, and then Kona slots on the women's side rolled down pretty far because eight women had already qualified for Kona slots in the race. And so it went down to fifth place for one of them, which was a Spanish Grits Ferrard, who ran. Oh. So actually, Cats marathon. This is impressive. Was a 2. 49. 49. And only Rennie and Chrissy Wellington have run faster in an iron distance race for the marathon.

Wow. That's amazing.

Pretty good stats. A cat. And she looked so comfortable. She looked like she was like just strolling in the park, which is a bit scary. But Goriz also. And then Skymunch went sub three, and so did Heather Jackson, she was in fourth. And then Goritz as well, she was a sub three. I think she was 252. So she got the first Kona slot. And then Kim Morrison and Tara Grosvenor, who finished in 8th and 9th, got Kona slots.

Wow.

Because that's. Yeah, because everyone else had already qualified, which is an impressive result for Tara Grosvenor. I think that will be. That's her first time going to Kona. Well, it's definitely going to Kona as a pro. She's only quite a new pro. And then on the men's side, I am struggling to know, but I think I'm gonna say the big. So Dennis Chevreau got a Kona spot, Jan Van Berkel, who came second, got a Kona slot and Andy Potts got a Kona slot. And there were two others that got Kona slots and I can't remember who they are off the top of my head, but Andy Potts is kind of the. One of the veterans of the sport and still able to compete at the top and get a slot. So that was quite cool and impressive.

Fantastic. Oh, sounds like. Sounds like a great, great weekend's racing. In fact, actually, I've got some more news that's really good news for. For our local triathlon scene. And that is so living next to Rutland Water, the Dambuster and the Vitruvian are both iconic races, but sadly the pacesetter events run by Mark Shaw, who again we interviewed right at the start of triathlon pacesetter events went into. Or it was wound up due to Covid, basically. So the Dambuster and the Vitruvian were potentially lost forever. And they are iconic races. They get mentioned by so many different people. Um, but the email came out to confirm in the last week that.

A.

Guy called Paul Cowling, who runs the Rutland Marathon, and a great triathlete himself. He went. He's done Kona himself as an age grouper. He's taking on the Vitruvian and the Dam Buster. So it will emerge like a Phoenix from the flames. So I think. I'm not entirely sure the format yet, but the Vitruvian will happen in September, and I think probably normally they do it on different dates, but I think probably he'll do the Dam Buster and the Vitruvian in September this year, and then next year we'll be back to the two separate events. So that's really good for local triathlon, that is.

And I just think local events should really. I think we should really try and support local events where we can. Like, just coming back from COVID and everyone's had a real struggle, you know. Okay, yes, there's a lot of controversy around athletes and whether they should get refunded for entries and stuff like that. But I think people have got to.

Give a little bit of.

A little bit of support to those local events who do might not have the huge backing behind them, but it's kind of imperative to their business that it takes on. However, I will say a little bit on the side. There was an event at the weekend that I had an athlete racing in, and I love the fact that local events and that you're very much in the community, but this race had to be abandoned halfway through the bike or. It wasn't really abandoned. They just. Because there was a car accident and a bad car accident. And I don't, you know, I'm very respectful of the fact that there was a bad accident and there was air ambulance and all that, but it was on the bike course and there could have been bikes involved and there weren't, but there could. But it meant suddenly, like, the athletes are coming up and the roads closed and the organizers couldn't find a reroute round. So in the end, they just, you know, after waiting there for half an hour, they turned them all around and went back to T2. And then they just did the run. And it's like, well, shouldn't this be like. I love the fact that it's a local event, but we need some level of safety and security that a race can actually happen or have a contingency plan. And obviously, yeah, you. I hope hopefully everything. Everyone was okay from that accident. But that could have been. If it was on the bike course. It could have been car bikes involved and athletes involved in that.

Yeah, certainly in a race I've done. I've seen an accident where a cyclist was hit by a car. I didn't see the accident, but the cyclist was being attended to by the ambulance when I went by. So, yeah, it is a. You know, clearly, when they're not closed roads, it's a. It's a different ball game, isn't it? And it is. It can be a bit of a nightmare, but yes. And I suppose that's the balance, isn't it? You know, you go for a super big, you know, highly funded event and you get closed roads or.

Well, they're not even always closed, though. They're not even always closed. And that's the thing, like. And I know it frustrates a lot of people. I know the time. I don't. Was I talking about it on the podcast a few weeks ago, like, when I was in Lanzarote and I was. I was 5 hours 15 into a ride and I had 10 minutes to go to get home and it was all downhill and I'd just come 5k down a hill and I came to a road closed because there was an event on, and it was a rally event and it was a car event, so I couldn't even go on the road, so I had to turn around and go 5k back up the hill and find my way around. And so, you know, I get it from a car point of view when there's a road closed and you're trying to get through and there's a vent on. Ultimately, it's not that much of an issue. It's like a few hours of your day sort of thing. So. But yeah, and for the safety of people.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're absolutely right. It is a difficult balance. One other cool thing, you know, I love a gadget and I saw another gadget that I like the idea of today. It's called the Lumen, which I thought was a. I've got a clock that.

Sounds like something out of Harry Potter.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I've got a clock called a Lumen, I think, which is. It wakes me up in the morning, but gradually by getting lighter and lighter. But this is not that lumen. This is a different lumen and measures your metabolism. So basically it can give you your optimum ratio between fats to carbs, optimum time to eat prior to exercise. You can kind of get your stat. It sinks to your Garmin. So you can see, you know, whether you're. Whether you need. It's your excuse to eat another gel, basically. I suppose. Um, but it did make me think back to the conversation we had with Andy at precision hydration because of that kind of whole carb to sodium to fluid ratio that he talked about. And in fact, actually in their email this week, he'd got a video that was talking about that ratio, which actually I thought was a really good video. It's kind of. But similar sort of talked element to the. He was covering in the podcast. But it was. Yeah, it was good. If I'll put that, the link to that video in, in the show notes because I thought it was really helpful.

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm excited because I got my delivery of precision hydration out here of the electrolytes to Spain. So I'm looking forward to testing those out over the next few weeks. And we're still doing some sort of hydration monitoring with, with Claire Fudge and we're going to feed that back to Andy from some of my training of like, you know, your fluid loss and sweat loss and stuff. So, yeah, I'm super excited to test out. It was very exciting. A huge box, huge box arrived. But really excited, opened it up. It was a lot of packaging. I was very excited. It was precision hydration. So. But talking about gadgets and I'm showing you my wrist because the viewers, the listeners can't see that I've taken off my gadgets, I've taken off my whoop strap because I don't want to be tied to data anymore.

You've given up data?

I've given up the whoop strap data for a while. Yeah. I'm gonna go off natural feeling in the morning when I wake up not having some app tell me what I'm meant to or meant to have recovered and feel like for the day. And I think that is. It feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

Well, there you go. That's a time where, you know, you don't need the data, you don't need the tech.

Yeah.

If you feel better without it, then, yeah, then that's got to be a good reason to drop it.

Cool.

So in that case, actually just coming back to what you said. So I got my parcel from PH a week or two ago and I've been kind of getting on really well with the 1500 on the turbo trainer and the 1000 while I'm out on the bike. But interesting. I was chatting to Phoebe Liebling who's a guest. I think I just mentioned it, didn't I? She's a guest in a few weeks time and she was saying that from the way I'm describing what's going on, I. It sounds like I'm lower on electrolytes on a Monday, which makes some sense actually, because I've usually done a long run and a long bike on the weekend and I've usually drunk less water because I'm not at a desk and I've probably had a few glasses of red wine as well. So this morning on the way to the pool I had some electrolytes and actually I have felt much better on than I would normally on a Monday, so. So there you go. Whether it's the offsetting of alcohol or whether it's the offsetting of training, I'm not sure, but either way it's. It's work. But on that note, let's dive into this week's interview with the very interesting, amazing guy that is Matt Pritchard. Matt Pritchard was a Welsh professional skateboarder, stunt performer, endurance athlete and celebrity chef. So he first came to notoriety with the MTV show the Dirty Sanchez, which I think at its peak got something like 400 million viewers. So astonishingly popular. And then more recently featured in the BBC's Dirty Vegan Show. But he struggled with alcohol and drugs and, and he used endurance sport as his path to a better life, completing 30 Ironman, sorry, 30 half Ironmans in 30 days. And also doing a deca, which is basically 10 times the Ironman distance as one continuous race. So a 24 mile swim, a 1120 mile bike and then a 26, sorry, 260 mile run. I mean, that's just incredible, isn't it? Anyway, so Sid and I got the chance to chat to Matt about his incredibly unusual path to success and how these successes have kind of have come almost by accident as a result of him following his passion. We wanted to also know how endurance sport has helped him through his kind of most difficult battles. Also how turning vegan has actually improved his performance. Now, a word of warning. There are a few choice words in this. There is a sort of bit of a parental warning on the language of this particular podcast. But I hope you will enjoy the interview with Matt Pritchard because he is a fascinating and lovely guy. Matt, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast. Sid, welcome back, Matt, thank you so much for joining us. For those people that don't know that much about you and I appreciate this, this is kind of a very open question to start with for you, given the variety of the stuff that you've done. But for those people that don't know you that well, do you want to give people a bit about your story, kind of tell us a bit about, you know, where you started out, where you kind of rose to fame. You're A bit about your endurance journey, obviously, we'll come back to that. But tell people a little bit about your story.

Well, I'll be quite quick. Let's just. I was in. I started skateboarding when I was 15 and that was just my life, a young age, really. That's all I did. I drank and snapped skateboarding and I won a competition like they sponsored. Then I turned professional and I travel around the world, entering skate comms, doing demos, being part of a team and all that kind of stuff. It was just, it was amazing. And that's when I met most of my friends, really, that I've got today. And that's where I met Daint Pancho Joyce. And off the back of that, we made a video called Pritchard vs. Dayton, which then got picked up by MTV. And then MTV called us in, which then started Dirty Sanchez, which went out to 64 countries, 400 million people. So that was a crazy, crazy 10 years that just like, it's just. It was just bonkers, basically, and it was fun. And then because of that, that crazy lifestyle and stuff and the crazy partying and everything, I just thought of, took one look at myself and of course, don't you know what. What happened to me, I need to sort my life out pretty quick. So. Because I was, I was. I put on loads of weight, just bloated from booze and yellow and just in a bit of a mess. So I. I told. I wonder if I can still do a marath. Kind of. Because I did the kind of half marathon when I was 15. I wonder if I can still do that again. So I, I signed up and I'm sort of killing. I. I did the Cardiff off, really enjoyed it. And I was sort of burning the candle at both ends then as well, because if I do a marathon, it gave me permission to go and pie. So back and forth and I just started setting bigger goals and that's when I started Iron man and then just went from there then and then. And then I went vegan 2015 and I was. I went to college to study chefing when I left school. So I just started getting back into cooking again, started a YouTube show and then BBC came knocking and we did Dirty Vegan on BBC. And here I am now.

And just recently, what have you been up to in the last few months of lockdown?

Then I've decided to Go across an ocean. So just literally just got back from rowing from lands. Well, we started off in Lanzarote and then we had something happened. The boats. We end up in Fort Ventura. So then we became the first people to row from Fort Ventura to Antigua, which was 3,000 miles and took us 50 days.

Amazing. Well, what an incredible journey so far. I mean. Yeah, there's no telling what's going to happen next, but. So let's drill into a bit in bits of those, I suppose I want to start off with. I just want to touch on the skateboarding thing. I was, I was a skateboard fanatic when I was a kid and, you know, I was massively into the Tony Hawk stuff and so what was it, what was it like? You know, how has the skateboarding world evolved? What was it like when you were there at the time as a professional and how has it evolved now? Because I don't know much about it in comparison now.

When I started there was. I mean, it was really small. It wasn't. It wasn't as big as what it is today. I mean, it's massive these days. But Tony Orchards around then, it was the bones brigade, which is Tony Oak, Steve Caballero, Mike McGill and all them kind of people. Yeah, back there was no skate parks. It was, it was. Well, especially in the uk, there was hardly any skate parks at all. It was just mainly made up of street skate skateboarders, which is what I did. And the odd mini rampura there, which would be a wooden mini ramp in door somewhere. I mean, it was fun back then because it was, you know, if you bumped into it, if I went to another city or town and it's a skateboard, you're like, no way. And you start talking to them and you go skating with them, you hang out and you become friends. I mean, these days you put another skateboard, so that's another skateboarder. So back then it was quite, it was quite small niche and it was good, man. It was just. We, I like on a Saturday we'd go to a spot in Cardiff called the Cardiff Banks and everyone from all around South Wales, it's all congregated, meet in this meeting spot in Canada for a week to spend the weekend skateboarding, getting chased by police because they didn't agree what we were doing and security guards and stuff of different buildings where we used to skate, just to come chasing after us all the time. The weekends were brilliant, man. It was, it was. If the weather was nice, you just spent Saturday and Sunday skateboarding with all Your friends and then in the weekdays, then skating in the night. But today has changed massively. It's, I mean, it's in the, it's in the Olympics now. I never thought when I was skateboarding when I was younger that it was ever going to be an Olympic sport, but this in the Olympics and people of big companies like Nike, Adidas and all them put their money into it and getting involved, I mean, this is a big debate whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

But when you were, when you were just with your mates skating, when you first started out as well, had you got at that point, was there any aspirations or did you have any awareness that, oh, I could do this professionally, or was it kind of, you more fell into it and opportunities just opened up and you were just like hanging around with your mates, having, having fun and doors open from there.

Never once did I thought, you know, be sponsored or become professional from it. It was just, I just really enjoyed doing it. I mean, I always wanted to be a stuntman, so I suppose that kind of stuff, I mean, I'm not saying skateboarding is stuntman stuff, but, I mean, you can take it to that kind of level, I suppose, but it was just, I just enjoyed it. It took me a while for me to persuade my mother to let me have a skateboard man because she said they were too dangerous. It was just, yeah, it was just never, never once did I thought, and then, you know, just it, you know.

As you, maybe she knew you too well in terms of saying that it was dangerous. Maybe the skateboard wasn't dangerous. It was a combination of yourself and the skateboard that, that made things dangerous.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, you might start Escape on the street skateboarding and I'd also try and I used to love jumping down steps, so I'd only ollie and down steps. So I'd always try and like, if I did, if I only down five set of stairs, the next set of stairs, that should be six, seven. So I just kept going bigger and bigger and bigger until. And the bigger you got, the more it hurt when you up. And I, I like messed up a few times.

And that was probably the perfect training for Dirty Sanchez, wasn't it? So, so kind of, how did that, how did that segue into Dirty Sanchez? You mentioned that video, but is it because you were so used to kind of falling over and getting hurt or kind of, you know, what happened?

We, I mean, I met Denton through skateboarding because like I said, we all used to meet to that Cardiff Banks. That's. That's where I met Daneson. I got on. Got on with him really well. You know, we were. That. We had that kind of relationship where we. We'd always try and outdo one another and we'd always pulling pranks on one another. And that's how. And he got a video camera. So he started filming in. Messing with me, Me. Me and him having this competition with one another. And then that's when we. Obviously with Pancho as well. He used to fall asleep. So every time we go on skate trips and tours, he'd fall asleep. David, that was Cameron, Me and him would mess with him and do whatever cigarettes up his nose lit and shave his head off or whatever it would be. And then, you know, Dane just got all this footage and with skateboarding footage as well. Messing around footage. And then Joyce, he used to meet at the skate comps. He was always known as this crazy guy, used to do stuff. He dressed up as a gimp once at the big world championships in London. So we thought this. This guy'd be perfect for the. For the video we were planning on doing, which is Prince of Estate. And he was like, yeah, cool, man. I'm a thriller. What kind of stuff can you do, Dan? He's like, well, I'll off that roof over there. And I'm like, you are. So, I mean, some of the stuff Dane's got. Joyce will never see the light of day. But. So we had like a good little. There was four of us and there was a good little mixture of stuff. And me and Dayton had a boxing match at the end of it as well at Lennox Lewis's gym in London. So the video did really well. I think it was the most talked about escape video of the time back when we released it and it was sold really well. And that's how. That's where it all started, really. I just went out and then some talent. A talent talent. Would you. Would you believe it? Talent scout saw the video and gave us a ring. He actually gave me a ring. So I was working for Globe Skateboard Shoes at the time. I was a team manager. They formed up. So, okay, come to London to the MTV studios. We'd like to talk to you about doing a possible TV show. Now, I thought Dayton had got somebody to phone me up to wind me up about it. So I didn't. I didn't believe words she said. Martha Delap, her name was. And I just. And it took me ages to. I was like, is this a wind nipple? Anyway, anyway, it Wasn't. And then I found that thing. Then I said, we've got to go Red tv, man. We've got to go to London. I've just had a call off mtv. And look, he didn't believe me then. He thought I was winding him up.

So anyway, when you play pranks and wind each other up on a daily basis, you never know when anyone's.

That's like the boy who cried wolf in it.

Yeah.

I mean, the two of me and Dick went to London to meet with mtv. And then the second meeting we took. We gave. We gave the picture of a state meeting as well. The second meeting. Pants and Joyce came with us. And then that was it. Then Dirty Sanchez is born.

And I don't recall ever watching Dirty Santa Chase, but I do recall uni.

You're lucky.

I've obviously watched a little bit now in my research. I. I wasn't watching it in front of my children, I have to say. But I did used to watch Jackass TV when I was on, when I was at uni. And did Jackass come before Dirty Sanchez, or were they out about the same time? I couldn't remember.

Everyone always asks that question. Bammaguela did a video called cky. And this was before Jackass and stuff, but it was the kind. I don't know, it was just a skateboard thing. So he was doing that kind of stuff in America. We were doing this kind of stuff the UK and then there was a magazine called Big Brother magazine, which was a really controversial skate magazine. And they'd found a guy called Johnny Knoxville, who's just crazy, and he shot. He was. Footage of him shooting himself with a gun with a bulletproof vest on it. And it was in the Big Brother magazine was like, whoa. And I think Bam Magera and Johnny Knoxville and they've sort of merged, and then that's how Jackass happened. So we. We were sort of started the same time. And then when Jackass went on to mtv, then, of course, MTV UK wanted to do something similar, like Geordie Shaw and George Jersey Shaw and then Geordie Shaw. So they were looking for the same kind of thing. And then that's. That's how it happened, really. So we were pretty much the same time, but they were first. They were first on mtv. Right, I see.

And. And so what do you think this stupidest thing is that you did on Dirty? I know you're gonna have to narrow.

Down, but, I mean, Christ, where do I. Where do I start? Well, I shot myself a point. Well, I Didn't shot myself. I got somebody to shoot me a point blank range in Prague. I had a bulletproof vest on and she just stood there and I just. When you. When you have a gun pointed at you, it's quite, quite scary. And he's shotgunning just went. Blew me backwards. One of the things went through my arm, which just blew me to the floor. That was growth. But it was a massive buzz. It was eight. They just got. Got off the floor and the cameraman went, oh, you have to do it again. I didn't press record, but he. There was only the camera on the floor looking up at me, but the other camera was. And I said, I'm not doing that again. Look at the state on my chest. And look at the guy who shot me. Went, I am not doing that again. He said, so, yeah, I can take getting shot, getting my ass pulled across sandpaper and they're putting salt and vinegar on it. I mean, yeah, it's quite, quite a few things, but they saw that stinging nettles. That was, that was bad stinging. That was. I had lumps all over my body and I was just like, oh. And it wouldn't. You just want to scratch it. Dock leaves do not work. And apparently P was meant to sort it out. So, I mean, me and Dave were in the house that we had MTV else and we. This sounds a bit sketchy, but we were naked in the bath peeing on one another, hoping to get rid of this.

I thought, I thought peeing was for jellyfish.

I did, I did.

Yes, it is. Somebody was winding this up so we were just covered in pee and it was just. It just didn't work and it was just like laughing. I was like, you. Anyway, the last of 12 hours, it was literally like having a bad trip, just doing it edit. Anyway, we just went to the pub, which was right next door to the house we were staying at, and just got smashed instead. Hopefully trying to turn it off, but.

I haven't actually tested the peeing on the jellyfish either. Well, not that I've tested peeing on nettle stings either, but I know that that doesn't work now, thanks to you.

One more thing to eliminate a rural rumor.

Gone.

Yeah.

So how did Dirty Sanchez lead on to your. You entering the endurance sport world?

Yeah. What was the trigger? Well, trigger point, no pun intention with the shotgun.

But yeah, it was the. It was that, like I said earlier, looking back and the, the party and stuff. And then I, when I started the. When I did the Cardiff the second time, just Got a buzz and I thought I've done a half, let's do a full. And then I did a. I think it was the. Yeah, it was a London marathon. Really enjoyed that. And then I signed up for the London marathon again. I did it in a Mankini the second time, which is. Which is painful. Chafing on the. Underneath on the undercarriage. That was fun. Then I. And I heard about Iron man so I signed up for the bolt in Iron Man 2011. So I'll have to get some training in for. To get some training for it. So I just thought, well I must. Let's. Let's cycle the country. So I'd cycle from John of goes to Land's End with my mate to try and get the cycle training in. That was fun. Really enjoyed that. 7. We did it for seven days but we went from Oak Johnny Cross. Yeah. Not Lands Edge. Johnny goes to Lands End. Little did we know then the headwind. So we had headwind because I was.

Going to say it's all downhill, isn't it, that way?

Well, everyone always says that but the wind normally goes from the south up the north, doesn't it? So we come the other way or the head with most of the way was like ah. But did it. Did the. Did the. I did the first Iron man and that was. It was so hard. I remember it was. But it was the same time. It was brilliant.

What can you remember roughly what time you did your first Iron man in?

It was 12, 12 and a half hours. It was 12 and a half hours.

So that's. That's for somebody that's not done huge amounts of training, not done that stuff before. That's a, that's a. That's a good time. And, and how has that evolved over? So was at that point, did you know that you were addicted to it and you wanted to do more or is it kind of. Did that evolve gradually and kind of what was that process?

I. It just, just looking back, it just happened. I think it. I think when you enjoy something, you don't plan on the future. You just, you know, you just think, oh, where's the next. Next. Where's the next race? And I me, I know what I'm like. I'm. You always have to better the last thing you've done. So in my head I did, I did sign up for the Bolton Iron man the following year and like I said, I was. I was burning the candle at both ends. So I did signed up for the SEC the second year, but I was in I was in Ibiza all summer doing both parties, so I was just getting abs, sort of getting. Didn't really train for it. And I thought, brilliant, let's see if I can do without any training. And that. That was when I just thought, well, this is painful because I think I managed to. I think I finished in 15 hours. So that was. That was a push. But after that, then what did I sign up for? I can't.

Because you've done Iron Man Wales as well.

Right, I failed that. That's it. Did Iron Man Wales because the following year after that, I signed up for Iron Man Wales and again I was in Ibiza doing the boat parties and I took my bike and everything because I actually lived in Ibiza for six months because Iron Man Wales is later on in the year. Yeah. So I. I left, lived in Ibiza for six months. I took my bike with all intention to go somewhere where I did. I went cycling around Ibiza and stuff. But going cycling and Ibiza, training, when you get up at, like, five in the morning or half five, six in the morning to go, oh, my God, you just go passing. You go past all clubs and stuff in the beach and everyone's just gurning. Everyone's just in a. Sorry, I don't know what your viewers are gonna think about. Everyone's just off the heads everywhere and it's just like, oh, my God. And I'm. I'm training and efforts. It's off their heads. I'm like, this is just surreal. But as soon as you go out of that and go into the middle of Ipiza and around the coast, it was absolutely stunning. Just passing, like, farms and stuff, and the roads are really nice. But, yeah, I mean, I did do some training, but it was nothing. And I didn't do my research on the route of Iron Man Wales. I just ended because I thought, brilliant. You know, it's down the road, it's Welsh. And then I turned up, ready to rock on the beach. WELSH NATIONAL ANTHEM PLAYING I've done acdc Thunderstruck.

They all do that. They still do that. Yeah.

And the hairs on my arms are up on end. I was like, full buzz. I'm like, yeah, let's do this. And it was just. I was buzzing so hard before the start. I had to calm myself down.

Yeah.

And you get in the scene, all that nervous energy and just trying to get into a rhythm on the swim. The swim was cool. And then I got on the bike and. Oh, man, the hills. It just. It was so hilly and I Just got into the run transition. The guy said, oh, sorry, mate, you're eight minutes. I was eight minutes away from cut off, which is good because I know I would have just kept push, keep pushing it, but I was ruined. So I was quite grateful that he switched me off and I learned a lesson and I thought I'd never do that again, so I didn't.

Did you after that, then, did you, did you go and watch any of the run? Because the run in Ironman Wales, again, there's no flat, but I did it in. When are we? 20, 19. There's no flat section, but it goes right through the town of Temby. And I just remember, like, each lap, because you're running through all the little streets and you're literally going outside the pubs and every. All the locals would be there watching. And each lap they just get drunker and drunker and drunker and heckle and heckle. And I actually swear that most the people in the pub are the ones that sign up for the following year before, because they're like watching it and they go, oh, this is easy, I'll do this. And then they sign up for next year and then forget, like, about how hard and anything that goes into training and just sort of arrive on the start line, go, oh, fuck, what have I done? This is meant to be in the.

Pub again, but this isn't reserved.

This isn't reserved for Ironman Wales. In Ironman Italy, there was a load of Welsh guys on the corner getting drunker and drunker while I was. So I sort of shouted Yaqui da to them as I went past the first time. And of course, every point, every time that, that from. That exactly. It was just brilliant.

But I, I, yeah, because I, yeah, because like you said, I just went into town because obviously I wasn't going to run. My brother was doing it that year, me, he was running. So I just went and had some beers and just supported them supporting everyone else. It is. It's such a good iron man. The support is unbelievable. The bike core support is brilliant. Going through the town is brilliant. It's just. But it's a really tough iron man as well.

Oh, I mean, but like you said, I mean, I've got goosebumps now. Like, like you said that beach start where you have the national anthem, like a whale, a Welsh male voice choir, like, singing, then they blare out AC DC and you've got the flames going up and when you stand on the beach and you're almost like looking out to the ocean but then you turn around and it's just that because you. There's like then the wall of people. It's. It's one of the most magical.

Do you know what it reminds me of? If I'm on the beach and everything. The Washington anthem's going. I literally. You look up, you see all those people. It just reminds me of the film Zulu.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they're all just. It's just like, wow. It's just, just, it's just amazing. Brilliant. I want to go back and do it and actually finish it this time. Stuff like being an IP for six months before doing it.

Well, it's on my, it's definitely top of my list for 20, 22. So I'll, I'll see, I'll see you there. It's book. It's fully booked for this year, but for next year, I don't think.

I don't know.

I mean, I'd be very surprised if it does happen this year because there's so many, so many people in such a small town.

That's the thing with Tenby.

It's.

I mean, that's one of the thing that's so good about it. Is it? Because it's a small town. Like, I remember when I was there, I went into like a little tiny garage in the middle of nowhere to get a drink when I was out riding and there was an old guy serving and he, you know, no idea. And he was chatting to the customer in front and he said, oh, what you doing this weekend? And he's like, and I'm not going to try and do a Welsh accent because I'll like. He's like, oh, well, I'm going to go out and just, I'm going to, you know, I've got my sandwiches, I'm going to go out and sit on the road and cheer the Ironman athletes along. And he wouldn't have had a clue about like the sport. Well, he probably do, you know what I mean? He was just like old man in a garage in the middle of nowhere. He's like, yeah, I'm just gonna take my sandwiches, I'm gonna sit out and watch the Ironman athletes all day. And it's. There's such an amazing community. And I remember like walking through at race start, like the fire at the fire stations opening, serving bacon butters and all the cafes at like 4am in the morning. I've never known anywhere that does that.

It's great for business.

Yeah. But then that flip side, with it being so small in current Times just makes it so hard, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Well, I'm desperate to do it, so if I can do it in 2022, I'll definitely be doing it.

But.

So then you went on from kind of the traditional Ironmans to the totally crazy section, which is the DECA, and 30 Ironmans in 30 days. What you know, was that just again, a compounding of the next thing needs to be bigger and more extreme and the next one again.

And, you know.

Or was there, you know, was there any other reason why you did that? And. And also tell us a bit about what the Deca is for those people that don't know what that. What it is and what, you know, what it involves.

I. I went and did the. The half iron in Galway and I really enjoyed. I mean, the day.

That's another mental one. I've done that one.

Yeah. Because the day before, because obviously my fiance's Irish and I've spent a lot of time in Ireland. So I looked up was anyone to do an island which. The Galway. I don't think it's there anymore. I think it's. It's in Dublin now, isn't it? Yeah. I remember the day before the sea was kicking right off. It was the storms. And I went, I gotta go in here tomorrow. It's like, you can't go in there. And they did. Honestly, they wouldn't have allowed it. It was so bad. I was like. And then overnight it just completely chilled out and it was just flat. And I was like, yeah. But I really enjoyed the half iron because I found I could race it better. I mean, at the time, a full iron to me was just getting around the course and finishing it. But with the half, I found I could. I could have a good race on. It was a nice little. Nice length to it. So I really enjoyed the house. And then that's when I. I came home then and I. And I. So I was running one day and I thought I was just trying to think of other challenges to do. So I went it. Because I always have my best bet. My good. I always have good ideas when I'm running. A lot of people will disagree, but for me, I think. And I thought like, March, my birthday's the end of March. What if I can do 30? Because I. In Cowboy, he did 22 half iron men's at the time. Well, I wonder if I could do 30. I'll start the 1st of March, finish on the 30th of my birthday. So I just. I put it out there. And I just saw it, I did it and then finished that. That was an eventful 30 days.

Was that, was that at the same time? Did you do that round Wales or was that a separate.

No, I did it. I did it with. There was a. There's a. What's it called? What do you call people sell houses? State agent. That was it. Did it with a Peter Allen estate agent in Wales. They sponsored it. So. And the guy, Jeff and Chloe from Big Moose, they were helping organize it with me. So we. They've got. I'd swim a kind of international pool and then I'd go out and I'd cycle to. And they had like 30 estate agents all in different places in South Wales. So I'd cycle to the 57 miles and end up in a Peter Allen and then I believe my bike and stuff there. And I run the half marathon from that shop. So every day I was at a different Peter Allen and then to run the marathon. So that's how it worked. And after doing that then I was just. And then I signed a month after finishing the third yards, I signed up for the triple. The triple enduro, man. Triple iron distance. And that was. I mean I had like a month off just to sort of chill and stuff. Yeah. But I was in. My body was, you know, ready. It was. I couldn't have had better training than the 30 hours ready to go into the continuous triple. And that was just. That was. I was fun, man. I stole my tea with the triple.

Is that so? I know with the deca you do all the swims together, all the bike and then all the run. Is that similar with the triple or is it just a. Like a swim, bike run. Swim, bike runs and bike run.

I mean there's two formats for the deck and there's a one a day or there's the continue. Yeah. So I. But with the triple it was. The continuous I did was well, seven and a half mile swim in a lake, just going around the circles and then we got out and then did the whole. All the whole bike in one, which is. What's 312, 336. 330. 336 miles on the bike. It was 11 mile, 11 mile loop. She just go around, go over the timing mat and then. Then we do. We do three, three marathons in. In a row going. And they think it was a one mile loop for that as well. So you're just going around the circles constantly.

That's even worse, I think like big loops at least.

No, I was I mean it's pretty good that it's only a 1 mile and I think 1/2 the loop was up a slight hill as well but it's quicker because my support vehicle was. Because it goes to the car back so every time I pass support because I could have a drink, I could have something to eat or whatever but I don't know, I didn't really. I always try and stay a week awake as long as possible. I remember being on the bike in the aerial position over in the night and the night times the worst. It's just you, I can't explain it, you just. Your body just wants to go to sleep and you're constantly fighting. I remember being in the aero position I just started to fall asleep on my bike and I was, I woke up going towards the bushes on the road and it's an open road as well so. And that's when I got back to the support vehicle I just went to sleep for like half hour and then got back on the bike again.

And.

So that open water swim sounds like 7 1/2 mile open water swim sounds perfectly fine to me. It might not to some people but.

Shaking my head the Deca.

So a 24 mile swim in the Decca you did that in a pool, is that right?

Yeah, did it in a, a pool which was, it was a, it was about a 20 minute drive from the actual event so we did the. It was in a 25 meter pool.

In a 25 meter pool as well?

Yeah.

How many lengths is that?

One.

1,001 Is it 1,500? Yeah, seven I got. It was a lot and you could do it without wetsuit or with a wetsuit so I was like I'm in an attitude, do I do it with that? Because you're more buoyant and you step through the waterbed or it's going to be too hot. Then there's how would you go for the toilet? So he's like ah, what do I do? And I thought solid, I'll just do it in a wet. So I glad they did do it in a wet it was warm mind it was really warm but slipping through the water and just sort of pushing off I saw, I came up with a nice little technique I just push into the water and I sort of just glide as far as I could just chill out, relax and then pop up and swim the rest and it worked perfectly for me and I think the worst part when I wanted to go to the. I have a plop I had to go to the toilet and Pull my wetsuit off and you know what, I was just trying to get a wet wetsuit back on. Your arms are knackered from swimming Bullum. The chlorine. Actually the chlorine burnt my face.

Yeah, I was gonna say. I've heard people when they're doing that sort of thing before you. They get such a dryness of the mouth and the chlorine burn and stuff. So did you do anything, use anything to.

I just now just. I should have put some kind of cream or something on my face like a barrier. But no, because I don't know why it makes you sneeze a lot as well because I got out, my face felt really red and I was just constantly sneezing. I was like. Anyway. I don't know how long it took. I think it was 11 hours I think it took me to do the swim.

And did you do a similar tactic of just swimming for as long as you could until you needed a break or did you kind of break it down and go right.

I just. I just carried on going and my support crew would have. I'd have fuel on the edge so I'd drink some fuel or drink some water or some gels and then just, just keep going and then finish that and then just drove to the site then ready to start the bike and the run.

And then. So with the bike, are you again on. You're on a shortish loop, are you? Is that how it works?

Yeah. I was on a campsite with the caravans and stuff and I had a camp of a camper van, like a proper camper with beds which was perfect. And it was a seven mile loop was up in. Up north. I can't remember the York. It was in York and it was a seven mile loop. Pretty flat. The only. Well it was flat and the only thing was on back bridge which I found out quite a way quite a few days into the bike ride. Well that felt like climbing Snowden afterwards. But it was just going round and I worked. I did 20, I do 21 hours on the bike and then I'd have three hours sleep and then I do. And I did that for pretty much five days. But it's really important like at the end to clean. Yeah, it's a sort of clean. Yeah, yeah. You're undercarriage. I know this is not going to sound too good but you know undercarriage sitting on the seat honestly was just like day two trying to sit down was. Was. It took me ages to actually manage to put my whole body weight to sit down. And then day three, it was, it was even worse because I, I, it was just. By day four, there was literally all my skin had come off my undercarriage and it was like, loads. It was. They call it chalk rot. Yeah, I had loads of like hard white spots literally all over my undercarriage and my balls and stuff.

More painful or more painful or less painful than some of the pranks you did during this Santa?

Well, I see more people because it's. Because it went on for 21 hours rather than just. Just sort of stopped after a few minutes. But I was keeping it because put it in anti so it didn't get infected. It's just clean, constantly clean. The civic effect. That'd be the race over for me. And when you've, when you've gone that far and gone through all that pain and mental torment, the last thing you want to do is chuck in the dnf. And I was like, just. Yeah, so that was pain on my mind. I just wanted to do it. Anyway, I got the bike done and it was the hottest one of the. I think it was day four or day three. It was the hottest day on record in the UK and I think we'd reached four times. It was 42 to 40 degrees on one of the corners. They. They racked at 40 or 41 degrees. And I remember turning around on the corner, intense heat, and it's like, ah, but would you go into. When you go over this time in match, you'd have all your support crews and stuff there and they all get in lollipops in for everyone. And it was just. It's a nice little like a, Like a family kind of environment because not many people signed up to do it. So it's a nice group of people. It's almost the same people that you see at all these events all the time. So you sort of meet up and say, how are you doing? You know, blah, blah. It's good because these are.

These are organized. But this particular event was organized by brutal events. Brutal Claire, wasn't it? Who on the podcast before. So it would be worth just touching on because you're an event organizer as well now, aren't you? You have your own event. Talk to us about how doing an event like yours or an event like one of the brutal events differs from kind of the mainstream Ironman events.

I mean, I love Iron man, but I love doing the endurance events more because like I said earlier, it's. It's the same people that enter these races year in, year, year out. And you know it's almost like, like I said, it's like a little family. Everyone knows one another because there's, there's not many get lunatics out there who want to sign up to do five Iron man in a row and stuff. So it's, it's a very niche little market, I suppose. And it's just good because, because Clear does the brutal events up in Snowdonia and they've done the double brutal which is just. Well, it's brutal. And you see now that's where, that's where I got to meet most of the people that I see in all these events now, like Jim and Martin and Graham Smaggy and all, all those people and they, they were, they were there at the brutal decker as well. It's just. That's good, man. It's just, you know, you're racing with your, I wouldn't say you really race. Nobody's taking a seriously, you're not out there, I'm gonna beat you kind of attitude. Everyone's sort of looking after one another and the support groups know one another as well. So you're all sort of feeding and helping you. Everyone's helping one another on their journey to try and get to the end of a very long triathlon. And it's. Yeah, it's just, it's a really good thing to be part of. And Claire, Claire is absolutely amazing. She puts on some great events.

It's just more like a team almost all trying to get round as opposed to competing against each other.

Yeah. I mean there's always like anything, it's always a winner. Yeah. And then, you know, sometimes you see people DNF with a chuck in the towel because they've injury or something and that's quite sad, see, because you know, you see some tears and tears of pain, tears because people can't finish. But that's part and parcel of what you signed up for. I guess one of the things I.

Love the, love the idea of was listening to another podcast of yours and they. On the last lap you do it in reverse, don't you?

Yeah, that was Dustin Turo, man. And, and Clear did it for the decade as well. So it's brilliant because you, you know, you spend two or three days depending along the trashness race racing or being with these people, talking to them when you're on the run and having a walk and all kinds of stuff. And then when you finish them, you, you go around in reverse and you see everyone that you've been with all weekends and everyone's just Giving you high fives and stuff. It is quite, it's quite emotional as well because you know, you've gone up, you've gone through a lot. We all, you know, everyone else who's part of the race and then you've, you've got the last loop, then on your way home, give each other likewise and, and everyone gives you a hug and stuff.

So everyone, everyone's at kind of their own points in the race. So at different points you'll have someone on their last lap finishing, so they're coming round.

Yeah.

The other way. Is everyone. Oh, awesome.

So you know this, you, you know that because there's not many of you, you know, so and so is literally almost on his way to his last lap. Right. And you met, you may have like another God knows how many laps left, but I remember the Decker, you know, you spent 10 days with these people, passing them or walking with them or running with them and having a chat with them and then all of a sudden you've like, yeah, man, it's never thought this last lap would ever come.

Yeah.

And then your last stop, you turn, you go the other way and you know, you just, you know, everyone's giving each other hugs and stuff. Well done. And giving high fives on your journey to the finish and then you cross the lines.

It's like, yeah, that's an awesome idea. I've never heard of that.

I haven't. I thought I could just, I could just feel the emotion when you were talking about it.

How cool. Yeah, honestly, I'm so. I trying to talk about it then. I felt quite emotional talking about it, but at the time, and you've been. And how you feel and everything you've gone through. Yeah, you sort of fighting back the tears, but it's good. Really good.

Amazing. And how obviously you, you are, you're now vegan. You say you switched to being a vegan in 2015, was that right?

Yeah.

So how did, have you found that training? So you're obviously doing Ironmans before you switch to vegan. Have you found any difference in your training, in your endurance since being vegan?

Yeah, when I first went vegan, I was. I lost quite a bit of weight. I think that was just my body. So getting used to the, the new change of diet and all kinds of. And as soon as I got used to it, it was fine, but I found it really good for racing. I mean, I was vegan for the 30, hard 30 days and as soon when I, when I told people I was going to do 30 half Iron Mans on a vegan diet. There's a lot of people who didn't understand. They were like, well you, I wouldn't bother, I wouldn't do that as, as a vegan. I said, you're going to make yourself really ill. And so. No, no, no, honestly, trust me, I'll be fine. And luckily I had a vegan restaurant in Cardiff called Analoga. They sponsored my channel. So every time I finished I go straight into the vegan restaurant and I'd have a proper vegan splatter meal which was amazing. And, and that's, I suppose at the end of that that, that just said to me and many others that you can do such things on a vegan diet and be absolutely fine. I mean I was in really good shape for after doing that 30 hours and 30 days with the vegan diet and my swim times, my bike times and my run times were better as well. I know this is not me just talking it, it really did. And I mean I didn't go vegan for that anyway went vegan for the animals and many other, many other reasons. But it did help, it did help my triathlons and my timings and stuff. And when I do long distance stuff, I try and keep my food as clean as possible because without being too sugary, not too many gels, I mean, you know yourself, it just makes you feel like you have a sugar high. So I try and make like energy balls and stuff, peanut butter and fruit dates, nuts. So I try and keep my food that, you know, clean. Really.

When you did the, when you, the, the row, was the whole team vegan or were you vegan? And were you, or were you with your experience, experience in chefing and stuff, were you in charge of, of cooking at that point? Well, I know not cooking is a little bit of a loose word when you're on a boat.

Yeah, it was a meat free boat. The boys are vegetarian and I was vegan. So there was a food dehydrated food company of freeze dried food called Extreme Extreme Foods. Think of us. And then there was another one called Firepot. And I knew Firepot had quite a few vegan options but Extreme Food only had two options. But Monkey Fist got sponsored by Extreme Foods. So they gave me as many of the two choices that I could have and I sort of found a fun firepod up on us. I know you've got a good range, they can just sort me out. So they, they did me a deal. So I had a collection of all these kind of porridges Firepot make a wicked. The porridge. Toasted banana porridge was so banging. I'd have that in the morning. They have posh baked beans. Chili. I just love chili con carne. So I chewed on candy with them. A chili con candy with extreme food. It was also bolognese and this. I was just like yeah man, this is banging. I got it all sorted and you just what you did, you, you wrote for two hours then you, you go into the cabin and then you put jet boil and you boil the water, stick it into the, the freeze dried or the dehydrated food, seal it up, leave it there 15 minutes and then open it up and eat it. That's. That's how we act for seven weeks.

Do you, when you're doing something like that in the Atlantic do your taste buds change at all or did you experience that? I've heard other people like again with like, like a bit like you're saying when you're swimming in the chlorine and the effect. But being out in the ocean and the salt and stuff. Does it. Or do you get bored? I mean is it more. You just get bored or whatever of the, the same food or was there enough?

I mean you, you know that when you leave that that's what you've got to eat and you just deal with it and. But I honestly that was the biggest thing I dreamt of was food and I, it's just. I just think, oh God, that's all I did. Honestly, that's all I did was think about food, food, food, food. I was like when I get. I'm going to have a Beyond Burger, I'm gonna have chips from my local chippy and, and I had not chocolate for years and all of a sudden I started craving chocolate and I'm like what the hell? It honestly was bonkers.

And that must be your body telling you you need stuff as much as if. I mean I got your Dirty Vegan book, which is absolutely brilliant by the way. I love the vegan, the Dirty Vegan burger. That's very good. But you mentioned Beyond Meat there. I don't recall there being any sort of beyond meat recipes within the book. Are you. What, what are your thoughts on the kind of processed vegan meat? And also now you know, coming to the kind of just breaking into the market is where it's of lab grown meat. So what are your thoughts on, on.

Those elements as far as vegan meat? Like Beyond Naked Glory Meatless Farm. There's quite a few of them now. I think they're Absolutely brilliant. I mean, some people are against them or. Why would you want to replicate me? I, it's not meat, so Happy days. And if you've ever had Beyond Meat or Naked Glory Burgers something, honestly, if I put them on a barbecue and I served it to you, I didn't say nothing. You were not going to. You'd. Honestly, you're not. And I've, I've given it to a lot of my friends who are not vegan. They're like, what the hell? What is this? How do they make this? It's so, it's so good. It tastes delicious. And the good thing about it is when they, they've even made mince out of it and, and you can do it, you can make meatballs with it. Stick it into my meatball tomato sauce. You can make chilies with it. Bolognese. It's just really good. So I'm all for it. And they do chicken slow Naked Glory to Tikka chicken slices, little chunks. Oh yeah. Just being put in sandwiches and stuff. They're banging. But as far as lab grown meat is concerned, I mean, do they have to kill the cow to get the meat?

No, no, they literally, I mean this is just kind of just starting to come to market. But it is literally just grown in a lab. There is not a cow involved, but it is a state.

I mean, if, I mean I, I'd have to taste it to see if I actually liked it. But I mean, if it, if it doesn't mean kill it and in an animal, you know, I'm all for it.

I mean, with, with the things like beyond meat, you obviously talked about eating clean, but do you think that, I mean that clearly a Beyond Meat burger is very, you know, it's processed, you know, there's nothing more you couldn't do anything more processed than that, I suspect. Where are your thoughts on, you know, is it kind of just a, a balanced thing you don't want to be eating at every meal or, you know, what are your thoughts on that in terms of clean eating?

It's pea protein, I think it is that makes the Beyond Meat and stuff. But as far as processed foods concerned, I mean, yeah, processed foods ain't good. But every now and again as a treat. So I mean, as long as you see it as a treat, then happy days. But you know, I'm not here to tell people what to do, so I mean, for me, I, I, I'd have it as a, as a treat. And yeah, and another good thing about these processed foods and choices that are in the supermarkets now. A lot of people want to go vegan, go vegan. But they say well I can't because there's not much choice. It gives them an excuse to. It helps somebody become vegan so much easier than what it did years ago. They can go to market now. There's so many especially dairy choices. You've got Al Pro. There's loads and the, the dairy choices are brilliant. The plant make, plant based milks now are just amazing. The yogurts are amazing, the, the desserts are amazing. So if you're a non vegan going into a supermarket it's just, you can't say it tastes like. Because it doesn't. So they're like, well this is, this is actually pretty good and it makes people, it's helping people go vegan. So I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open minded when it comes to processed stuff. But then at the end of the day if people want to keep eating processed stuff, you know yourself it's not good for you. And everyone thinks as soon as you go on a vegan diet it's great for losing weight. I mean it is if you're not constantly eating processed stuff. Because if you eat loads of processed and I did it before going on the row, I had because I had to put on weight and I in that some process become processed food like put on the pounds. So yeah, so be careful. If everyone out there thinks let's eat vegan processed food, I'm going to lose those away, you're completely wrong going back.

To the row because there's no way you can get the amount of calories you're burning over those days. You just can't. Well one, you probably can't carry that amount of food on the boat with you and you just can't eat that many calories in the time you have between the rowing and stuff. Is it. So you put on the weight beforehand knowing that yes, you're going to try and replenish as much as you can on the road, but you are going to lose, lose some.

Yeah, we go, well they, they said they recommended I put on two stone. I mean I'm normally 14 stone. I managed to get to 15 and a half, half. And as for the boat, there's plenty of room to carry enough food on there for the carriage that you need. I mean those, those free strike freeze dry food, some of them are like 800 calories a meal. So if you had two of them, which you could do, you could have 1,600 calories in one hit. But we were burning 8, 8 to 10,000 calories a day. And, and you have a think or snack snack packs. The. The Billy the Skipper advised Monkey Fist said make up 50 snack packs of chocolate bars, fizzy sweets, all this kind of stuff to make up the calories with just so you can just snack when you're ruin rather than when you're not eating the food. So they all had their chocolate bars and their health food bars and stuff. But then I just made up these and you, you double pack them in freezer bags. So I had like big bags of dates and I went. I remember going to health food shop which I'd be going to since it's since the 80s. My parents, when we were little kids and I went in there and I just bought big bags of dates. So at least 50, 50 bags full of dates. Loads of like Brazil nuts, of cashew nuts, raisins, dried fruits, all this hippie far out that a lot of people say. But I had some biscuits as well, like party rings which are vegan. So I put them all in and they're all nicely packed. 50 of them. Took me ages to do it. Put them in the boat two months before we were about to sail. But the boat was brand new and it stunk of epoxy glue because it's been put together. So we got on the road. Long story short, left Lanzarote. I thought, oh, I love, I love snack packs, I love some party drinks. At the first one I was like, it was just, ah, it just full of epoxy glue. The smell had gone through the badge, it was that strong. Went through all my. And I, I thought I'm gonna have to eat it. So I had to home like quite a few of them. Then about 10 minutes later I burped epoxy. I went, this ain't good. I can't do this for the whole journey. So I had to empty every single 50 snack packs and just tip more into the. Just tip them into the sea. Not the plastic obviously, just the, the content. So that's why I literally had 50 days. They were all there eating their snack packs and stuff. I, I just lived off my. So I deep. I did three times a day. So that's why a lot. I lost two and a half stone on the, on the road.

So yeah, and one of the questions that I often hear when we're talking about vegan food is how do you get enough protein? So you know, obviously there is only so many pulses and beans and things like that. That you can eat. What other protein sources do you tend to? I mean, to you.

Do I look, I was gonna say. Well, actually, I still got bingo wins from the row. That's it.

Because you lose your muscle, don't you? Yeah, you.

I lose my muscle in my arms. That's why it's all fluffy. So I'm slowly working at. Well, like, it's quite funny because I can't. Because I. I can't close my hands more than that because of the oars. It's just. That's really painful. So I can't lift weights to put some muscle on my arm. And I'm like. So I still got bingo wings. Screw the hands. But my calves as well. My calves, Quads are fine, but my calves, it's like these big, huge, flappy bingo wings on my calves. But as far as protein's concerns, I mean, I've plenty normally, like, if you saw me, you would never say I was protein deficient. No vegan has ever been protein deficient. So when people say, where'd you get your protein from? It's just like, I just want to go, ah, do I look skinny? You title. Just shut the up. Leave me alone to my protein deficiency. But honestly, joking aside, I got plenty of protein. I mean, the spirit is one of the protein dense foods on the planet. And a bit of. Oh, yeah, but, yeah, but you need animal protein though, or you're gonna shut up. You off. Sorry. The language is down, but on it, it's quite good. You asked the question because it's just. People are just insane, man. They just repeat what other people say and it's. Yeah, I get plenty of protein for my legumes and lentils and this and that. So it's all. And nuts and seeds and, and everything. So that's what I get it from. You know, it's all good. I could calm down. I had a little bit of.

That is brilliant. I know I'm normally after. I'm like, I'm loving this language because I normally have to be really careful how much I opening up.

I remember reading about when you were kind of planning the row, it was talking about the fact that through lockdown, you kind of struggled with mental health issues to a certain extent. And the row was one of the ways of dealing with that. Talk to me about how you found things like the row. And also your endurance events have helped you, whether it be, you know, drinking less and taking less drugs or whether it be with your mental health, you know, how have those sorts of things Helped you, you know, be a happier person, I suppose.

Well, I know I know myself. Exercise makes me incredibly happy. I mean, if I don't have exercise, I'm just. I'm just a person to be with just in general. But with exercise, I'm just like assistant door things your body needs. It's just extremely, extremely important for human beings to exercise. Like I. This morning I did a workout in my front room and you know, I just. It's a great way to start the day and, and before the row and. And I'm sure I speak for a lot of people, well, worldwide, because of COVID that you know, being locked down, if you didn't exercise and you started drinking a lot and what do narcotics or whatever, you know, it's not a great place to be at all. And you just drive and we're not designed to be locked down either. Drive you absolutely crazy. Now, I did try and keep myself as fit as possible in lockdown, but I had the rowing machine downstairs because I have to train for the. For the row. But at the same time I was drinking, I was drinking. I was pretty much drinking almost every day. I was drinking and rowing. It's not. It's not a good mix. But, you know, with my head was. Quite a few other things happened in my life which I don't really want to talk about. And I knew that sort of really affected me big time. And. And just before I get. I went to Lanzarote, my head was in the shed and I just couldn't wait to start the row. And there was a lot of things that almost stopped the row as well. And I thought, I've just, I've eaten all this food to try and do this row, obviously to lose. And then the COVID almost didn't stop the road. Then Brexit almost stopped the road. And it was just all these hurdles. I'm like, ah. I just wanted. I just. I knew this road would sort my head out and I just wanted to go on it. That's all I wanted to do. And then got the Lanzarote. My edge was absolutely pickled and fried. And as soon as I got on that boat, I could feel the pressure, the stress, everything just all leaving my body and I was just. And all right, the exercise is a little bit extreme, but I just. It just put a smile on my face straight away. For the first two weeks, I was just in such a good place and. And until then I realized me this was hard, but I didn't go to a bad place. I was just like Whoa. Because the first two weeks I was, I knew one of the other boys was like, whoa. He didn't have a good first week. The first two weeks I was, I was like, yes, this is, you know, you wake up surrounded by the best scenery in the world. You get the best sunrise, best sunset, your phone's not pinging every two minutes, social media's turned off, your emails are turned off. It was just absolutely amazing. And then you realize how hard it is. So I had a bit of a. Four bad days really on the road and obviously when I did my back, but the whole thing in general, I'd lost a lot of weight, I felt good, I was tanned, I got to the other side, had a big smile on my face. The person who, who, who left Lanzarote compared to the person who landed in Antigua was just two different people. And I'm still, I'm still buzzing off it and going back to say doing long. I just love doing long events because you can switch everything off in your mind and just go into your own mind. You've got a lot of time to think and like doing the DECA, like 10 days I was in the same, I was surrounded by the like minded people who've got the same ideas as me. My phone was off and I just running, cycling, swimming in my own little mind in my own little world. And it was just, it's just amazing. It's just a good place to be. Your endorphins are kicking off and again, yeah, it's a little bit extreme but it works for me and it's just, and as soon as I leave that place I'm high and then it's just, you start getting, you, you're back, it's almost like you're back on land and it's just you're surrounded by these emails are going again. Social media, this, this and this is like, ah, you just want to scream at the world. But exercise is fantastic for anyone out there who is suffering from mental health or anything like that, just honestly just do a load of exercise. You'll see a life change like that. Dump the tablets, dump the antidepressants and go for a run. The running is the easiest thing you can do. Just put on your trainers. It doesn't have to be fast, it doesn't have to be long, even a mile that you'll come back a different person, but you come up with a different person than what you left. And I think doctors these days should, rather than prescribe antidepressants, they should prescribe free gym Memberships so people can go and see the difference in how they'll be after the. I'd say give it a week to. At the gym five times a week and you'll be a different person.

Oh, I am totally behind you on that. I'm not sure I would go to the extremes of rowing across the Atlantic. That is one thing that never appeals to me. I think I would be scared shitless, frankly, of the water and the ocean and the big waves. I'm rubbish in the, in the ocean just for a swim. But I'm a huge advocate as well of like just that, the power of sport, be it from a mental or physical health perspective. And like you said, it doesn't. You don't need to run fast, you don't need to run far, you just like walk the block around that we know, walk to the end of the street and back, run to the end of the street and back.

Everyone's, everyone's different. So you know what, what is good for you is maybe not good for what's good for me may not be good for you. So just, you go and do what you need to do, which makes you happy. Whether some people might take them 100 mile run, some people might take one or two mile run, but do what you do what you can just to put a smile on your face and pretty much 99% works.

And do you think it's just the exercise or do you think it's the setting of a goal and then achieving that goal and also the routine that these goals create? You know, is that a factor in the process as well?

Yeah, you're right. I think everyone needs to set a goal in life and something to work towards. For me, I've just, I've signed up now. I've signed up for a race, a run in North Wales which doesn't. A run that doesn't end that the backyard.

Is that the backyard ultra? Yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you about that.

Yeah. Because I know I've come off the Atlantic, my head's ticking already, I'm oh, I've got to do something. I do. Because I don't know about you, once you do, you've set yourself a goal, you've done it, completed it, you get home. That's pretty much. I found over the years, my head, I go into a proper depressive state.

We call it the post Olympic depression. It's the same after any race and stuff or anything like that. You've worked so hard towards that goal. It's kind of encompassed your Life and you've done it. If you don't suddenly give yourself another goal you can rapidly go into that. Yeah into that dark place.

And I've done it, I've experienced it so many times doing the endurance stuff and, and I thought, and I knew before I started this row I thought oh I, this, this, this low is gonna nip me like a freight train unless I saw do something about it as soon as I get home. So I just want to do another. Just saw this Billy the Skipper actually sent me this thing backyard and whoa, this looks ace but in America. So I went on the American site and just registered for it. I'm hoping they get back to me or something. And then Mark Whittle, whittle fit he said well there's one in Wales and it was in August, August 28th, 29th. What this is perfect. So I signed up for it and it's that it doesn't end. I thought ace, I'm just go around in circles again. Four mile circles until, until my, my head and my body says no more. So I'm looking forward to that. So that's. I've got something into focus on and it's always nice to have a goal if you've got a goal. I've got something to work towards now. I went yesterday when for my first run yesterday since coming off the boat. It was only two miles but of course my legs are a bit screwed and I woke up this morning actually I thought oh, my legs after two months, after a two hour run. But I've got, I've got something to work towards now as I'm looking forward, looking forward to that and I think that is part of the process as well. And then once you've completed your goal, like you said, you've literally got to start looking for your next one before you.

It's interesting actually. It reminds me of booking holidays. I always said, I've said for the last few years, I always, this is not a good time to be saying this actually. But I will anyway. I always want to make sure I've got the next holiday booked before I go on this holiday because that way you don't come back and have that, that dip you're already like, oh well now I can look forward to the next one. So I think being aware of that principle, the best example I can remember reading about on that principle of the. What did you call it?

The post Olympic depression was the guys.

Who landed on the moon, Lance Armstrong and the like, because their goal was to walk on the moon. I mean where do you go from that? I mean. And they suffered from depression quite a lot after, after that first from what I understand. So. And I've heard you talk about routine. Is that also, does that also help in the. With kind of your sort of mental well being.

I'm really shit when it comes to routine. Although I do like routine. I think it's brilliant and I think everyone should have a routine and when I have to do something it's like with a, with a row you have to get, you have to go, you know, it's a routine. You're a 24, 7 routine. You, you have to wake up this time to get on to go rowing and your, your mind's just in this circle when you come home. I can be a little bit slack with my routine but I need, if it involves somebody else I can't, I can't let other people down. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm there. So if like I'd say if I had a, if I had a 9 to 5 job, you know, I know I have to get up because I have to go to work. You can't let people down. But I think when I get like, when I go. I haven't got a 9 to 5 job so I'm quite, I'm not too good at. What's the word?

Self motivation.

Yeah, I'm all right for self motivation if I need to go training or you know, I have to go out and do a run or I've got to do a bike ride. But as in just normal day to day life it can be a bit slack sometimes but I think routine is. Everyone should have a routine.

Fortunately I have to go which I'm really, I'm kicking myself. Yes. Because I don't want to. Enjoying the conversation a lot. But I'm going to let you two carry on because I think there's some more good stuff and hopefully we'll get to catch up again soon. Hopefully. I mean good luck with the backyard Ultra. I'm sure. Be brilliant.

Thank you.

Do you have very quickly do you have a, a goal? Because there's no end to that race. Do you have a goal set of kind of where you want to get to?

Yeah, I'm going to do 100 miles. I've never done 100 mile run, obviously I've done it in other things but I'd like to do 100 miles in 24 hours and then I'd love to see how. Just keep going. I'd like to make the 48 hour mark with no sleep and then see how many miles I could do after the 100. That's the goal.

All right, well, all the best with that. And also, say hello to Lemmy for me.

I will. Thanks, Rol. Take it easy.

So I've actually only got a couple more questions I wanted to ask because I think we've covered so much brilliant stuff and I have to say that I don't think the interview has gone how I expected it to. You're maybe a different person to the person that sometimes your Persona probably brings across. You've obviously got multiple businesses as well. What are the businesses that you're involved in at the moment and what sort of things are you looking to do on that side?

Well, I lost pretty much all of them since last year, Covid, but many and some other reasons as well. But I mean, it is what it is. I got. What I have got is the first shop that I opened in Cardiff, 2014, sleepily dead tattoo Barbershop, which is, which is brilliant, man. I've got. Got great team. Great. You know, the, and the manager there, the barbers and tattoos are absolutely brilliant. Really fortunate to have such a good team there. And I've got the triathlons as well and the swims and the runs with Simon from All or Nothing events. So that's pretty much what I got at the moment. But the good, you know, the good thing about that, I haven't got. I haven't got a lot going on in my head to keep everything going at the same time and everything ticking over, so as if everything, everything's sort of been cut down, but in a way it's quite good for me mentally. So, yeah, so that's what I got, the moment, which is cool.

And are you planning any more events? I mean, obviously event organization has been incredibly difficult for the last sort of 15 months. But what, what actually, what events do you do at the moment and do you have any plans to kind of expand?

Well, I, I just basically Simon does. Simon Webb, who got all nothing events, he pretty much organizes, organizes it all. I mean, I just put my name and my brand to the, to the races, but he, he works, he works with bollocks off getting, getting the races off the ground. We got, we got a swim run, but it's all pretty much based in Barry Amazing spot. We got the Sleep in the Dead sprint and Olympic distance, which is part of the, the World Travel series whilst traveling series. So that's, I think that's, that's happening October 3rd. Now because it got canceled last year, obviously, because of COVID We've got a cycle as well with Golda Garages, so there's a few events going on. The triathlon's just. The triathlon is amazing, really is. And the first year we did it, we had a good turnout. Everyone just comes to Barry Bali Bados, we call it. And it's just. It's good, man, just seeing every. It's good to be part of like, you know yourself. Triathlons are just amazing for all the supporters and stuff that come down and the families and everything, seeing people do their tr. Doing their first triathlons. I always love seeing people doing their first one across the line with a big smile on their face and yeah, it's great. I'm just, I'm really looking forward to doing this one now on the 3rd of October, obviously, because everyone's cancelled their races and we're all allowed to put them back on, so.

Well, it'll just be amazing to be able to get events, get to events and to enjoy them because, you know, it really has highlighted how much, you know, how big a big part of people's lives these things are. So, so, so that would be fantastic. And final question, which I always ask everybody, by the way, I really enjoyed Dirty Vegan Book. Some great recipes in there, as I mentioned, the Dirty Burger, the banana ice cream, the Sushi sandwiches. But what books have you been. Have influenced you? Are there any particular books that you found really powerful or find yourself recommending?

I don't really. I don't really use cookbooks. I mean, I don't. I mean, I always find if I. This is why we did the book. Because I. When I do pick up a cookbook, I find the recipes, as I go for a cookbook, ever see loads of ingredients. The method's really big, puts me off. So I'm just like, well, let's make a cookbook. Which is easy because, I mean, there's a lot of people who follow me who, you know, they're not cooks and they want something easy to follow and a lot of people who think veganism is just hard, the food's hard to cook. So the book was made to make it easy for a lot of people to cook and that's why we did what we did. Now the recipe is pretty easy to follow. There's not many ingredients, there's not. There's not a big method. So as soon as. And because I know myself from opening a book, I know I'll ask many other people. So as soon as they open this book. Ah, cool. Not many ingredients. The method's pretty cool. So that's what the book was made for, really. And for me personally, I haven't really. I've never really followed any books, but I do love watching cooking shows. Now that is my favorite. I mean, I love watching over the years, I love watching Jamie Oliver, love watching Rick Stein, of course, the legend that is Keith Floyd. And now every Saturday morning, I love watching James Martin on Saturday morning. I used to follow him on Saturday Kitchen. Then he went to itv and there's a lot of cooking programs on Saturday. So my Saturday is pretty much made up of watching cooking programs and getting some inspiration for dishes and stuff. So, yeah, really, I just, I just enjoy cooking, man. It's just, it's so therapeutic. I just love it. It's amazing.

Well, you can see that by your enthusiasm on the, on the stuff that I've watched on YouTube. So. Brilliant. Matt, it's been an absolute pleasure. You've had an incredible life so far, so God only knows what's going to happen for the next 40 odd years, but it's been brilliant to interview you. And yeah, I just wish you the best of luck with the event organization and your future endurance events.

Brilliant. Thanks very much, man. Thanks for having me on.

So, Charlie, I had to leave before the end of the interview, which I was incredibly gutted about because I was loving listening to Matt. But, yeah, tell me what you. What did you make of the. Make of the conversation?

I thought he was really interested, really lovely guy. And actually probably I think he just came across as being a really genuine guy. But what I found amazing was how he's sort of stumbled from one amazing success onto the other. I mean, stumbling into Dirty Sanchez was like the perfect piece of timing as a result of doing that video. And then, and then the vegan chef thing. And I just think it's interesting and it made me think of a book I've just read, how to Fail at Nearly Everything and Still Win Big by a guy called Scott Adams who created the Dilbert comic in the US and what he talks about is essentially what they call an innovation stack or an expertise stack. And I thought, I just thought of this with Matt in the sense that, you know, he was a great skateboarder, but he probably wasn't the best in the world. He was a great chef or good chef, but he probably wasn't the best vegan chef in the world. And he was, you know, funny and charismatic on tv, but probably not the best at those in the world either. But it's this stack of multiple avenues that he's good at has just created this really interesting success. So I thought it was fascinating. And I also thought that the things like the decker and the 30 Ironmans in 30 days is just. It's just a very different side to the sport, isn't it? So. But what did you make of it all?

I mean, I just. Oh, what an incredible human and what an incredible backstory and just his reinvention of himself and, you know, it takes a lot to get to a place where you can almost snap out of being. You know, when he said, you know, he'd got to that point and he'd been doing Desantis or whatever it was for 10 years or so and just knew he couldn't go on living like that and living the way he was doing and destroy, literally destroying himself. But it. It takes a lot to get to that point, especially with friends and peer pressure. And, you know, it's. It had given him so many opportunities to some extent, but that then he kind of. And I guess it did take me laugh. I think he signed up for, like, his first half marathon again. You know, I think he said he'd done one as a kid, but he signed up for it because he sort of had this trigger point of needing to change his life. However, he was still, like, on drugs or drinking the night before the race and still did it and was sort of in this adjustment, adjustment period at a certain amount of time. But then, you know, now the fact, and I know he's not completely sort of no alcohol and vegan, I think he does have a drink, but just not in excess. But the fact that, yeah, he's obviously got a huge, huge heart, which is often sort of, you know, again, looks can be deceptive. And you perhaps prejudge on his character as he was in debt and the things they got up to in Dirty Sanchez. But yet the fact and the reasons why he's gone vegan and he's like, he's got a gorgeous dog, which I loved watching and following. And then now what he's trying to do about, you know, all the row that he just did across the Atlantic and the charity, the fundraising he's doing. And that kind of, again, it rings back to what we talked about with Christa Cullen and what we talked about with Stacy Copeland. And he's like that bigger why of why you're doing something. I mean, I went back, I was looking at some of the Instagram, like, from when they did the row and it just, I mean, it just looked like I'd love to know more about, you know, how they, some of the situations and how much, you know, his obsessive. And you talked about it, the addictive nature. Like, you know, he threw himself into the long distance triathlon and then chucks himself into a fall and then a 30 and then a decker and the, the training or like, well, I'm not just going to build up to it. I'm going to just run from Land's End to John o' Groats or I'm going to ride from. And I wondered if that had been the same with the rowing. And I don't know if you're touching it, you know, like to row across the Atlantic. Had how much experience or how much training did he do before that? Or was it. Was it a bit like a John McAvoy, just like, let's, let's sit on the trainer during lockdown and just like row ourselves to hopefully get across the Atlantic when it comes to it.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know whether he'd done how much rowing he'd done, but I did, I did look at the photo before and after the row and I mean, I think he lost.

He lost.

He said he lost two and a half stone, didn't he?

Yeah, I think because I'd also heard a podcast with a group that are preparing for the row at Row as well across the Atlantic, a female group called she Rose. And they were talking again about how, because you can't necessarily, like, you've got your food and your meals, your dehydrated food that you then add your water to and then you've got all your snacks and stuff, but there's only. You can't almost take on as many calories as you're burning in that situation. And then the fact that he was, it was him who was saying that he'd put all his snacks in the boat, but they stank. They'd like soaked in all the epoxy.

Yeah.

Wasn't it? So he had threw them all away. So then he didn't have any of the snacks.

You think, you think they'd have picked.

Some up at the.

At some point, you know, a service.

Station on the road, just halfway point.

Like they had to stop to Ventura, didn't they?

But I don't. Yeah, that's true. I don't know how far into the road they really like anyway. But yeah, yeah. What an amazing, amazing guy, though. Great character. Really fun to chat to again, like One of those interviews could have got a lot more from him.

Yeah, well, absolutely. There was so much more that we could have talked about and, and I just thought, I also laughed when I asked him about vegans getting enough protein. He definitely put us in a. Well, put me in my place there, didn't he? It's like, yeah, so, but, well, maybe follow that one up with. With the nutritionalist Phoebe in due course. But no, really interesting chat and a genuinely lovely guy.

So let's wind it up for this week.

Don't forget that this podcast is brought to you by Precision Hydration. There's a discount code in the show notes if you want to go check out their electrolytes and their other stuff. So, yeah, in the meantime, have a great week training, Sid and you. Thank you.

And you're off on holiday, aren't you?

I am off to Cornwall on Saturday, so looking forward to getting back down to see the Cornish coastline and, and doing some exploring down there. So, yeah, so have a good one, everybody else, and yeah, keep on training. If you've enjoyed this triathlon podcast, please do go to Apple Podcasts and rate it and review it. It massively helps us to deliver a better podcast and it helps people find it as well. So, yeah, go to Apple Podcasts, give us some feedback, give us a rating and a review and please share it with your friends because ultimately that's what allows us to keep delivering more and more of these podcasts. And don't forget to download the tribathlon app for more amazing podcasts, but also to help you train, compete and to build your tribe.

SA.