Following in Dad's Footsteps with Rudy von Berg

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding. And I'm claire fudge and this is the tribeathlon podcast.

Yeah, it's funny how that works. I mean, in interval sessions, for example, you actually get less effect, less training benefit from the session if you go, let's say 5 or 10 seconds a K faster.

That was professional triathlete Rudy Von Berg. And this episode is following in dad's footsteps. Hey, Claire, how are you doing?

Yeah, good, thank you. How about you?

I am good. Well, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. I'll come back to that. But how is the recovery from the ultramarathon going? And I know you're now sort of leading into triathlon training from it. How's the recovery going?

Yeah, I was, I was, yeah, I was really looking forward to getting back into triathlon training. But you know, an ultra really does take it out view, I think is what I'm going to say. And actually with, with ankle, an ankle injury going into the ultra, my recovery has had to be super sensible and I'm not always good about being sensible. So just, yeah, just getting back into running. But one of the biggest things that we talked about before was sleeping after having done an ultramarathon. And we know obviously sleep can be disrupted after kind of heavy training or like high intensity sessions, but this was like something different. And I just literally after two weeks managed to sleep and the power of a really, really good sleep. My ankle overnight literally was better.

Wow, so your ankle is totally fixed overnight? My ankle has gone the other way. My ankle was fine after the ultra. And then a Thai massage is totally balls it up. But, but I think, I think it's back on the men now, I think, I think. But so how long was it that your sleep was disturbed for after the ultra, do you think?

So obviously, you know, like the day and for people that race and things like that, you know that the night of a race a lot of people don't sleep, do they? Um, so definitely two nights after the race. That was crazy. And I know, you know, you, your sleep wasn't great as well from what, from what you said. And, but two, two weeks. It was literally two weeks, actually was a bit longer than two weeks. And I just couldn't get back into a cycle of sleeping. And I'm. And usually as a good, I'm good at sleeping. But then, you know, all those things, you start reading again about sleep. You start, you know, being worried that you're not getting enough sleep, looking back at your sleep, trying to, trying to do Things to make you sleep. And actually, that worry probably just makes it worse.

Doesn't.

Does. Well, we're going to get Dr. Charlotte Edelston back on the podcast just to talk about the fact that this blasted ultramarathon messed up our sleep patterns. So we will come back to that subject. But when? When? So I'm intrigued. So I know you went into that race with a damaged ankle, so we're very cautious about that. What's it been your experience? I'm going to. I've got a bit of experience with bespoke orthotics, and I'm going to kind of come back to something I found that's been really good for me. But what's been your experience? Do you use bespoke orthotics? Do you just use the insoles out as trainers or.

It's interesting, isn't it? Because actually, working with sports medicine teams, there's always two schools of thought in terms of who you speak to and what that as you know, as there is always. And what their thoughts are on making orthotics and changing your biomechanics and your gait, because your biomechanics obviously change the whole time. But the reason that I actually used bio orthotics, I should say biomechanics, I use it the whole time. Orthotics was years ago after. After I was run over and my foot was quite badly damaged. And actually my orthotics, I would say to this day, felt like it was the key to me getting back into running and actually being able to run and supporting my foot. So I don't know whether I would have ever had them if that hadn't happened.

I'm not sure what happened with you getting run over. This is something I don't think I know about this.

So, I mean, it sounds like a bit of a crazy story, but I, when I was living in North Yorkshire, and if you know any of, like a lot of the North Yorkshire roads are really lots of tight bends and obviously the stone walls. And I was just out running and I was on a piece of a piece of road and got basically run over by an oil tanker. I mean, I say oil tanker, it was a small one, but it was still. Still a little larger than myself.

It doesn't matter whether it's a tiny oil tanker.

Yeah. So a few other injuries, but essentially crushed my foot. And I didn't. Well, I didn't drive for a year, let alone run. And actually I was a runner at the time, so I was never a triathlete, I certainly wasn't a swimmer and I hated it because that's all I could do. But anyhow, like, getting back into running was just this huge. Just took so long. And eventually I found a great sports podiatrist. And I don't think I would have got back into running the way that I did if I didn't have them. But actually over time, because obviously biomechanics change. I've had to change my orthotics. And then I got to a stage where actually, I'm not sure whether I needed them or not, but I guess that's because your biomechanics change.

But, well, this is the experience I had. So I started running. And when I started running longer distances, so it was in the lead up to my first marathon, which was in the lead up to my first Ironman, I started getting Morton's Neuroma, which is. I'm sure you know what it is, but it's basically for those people that don't. It's like swelling in between the, the, the joints of your feet. So it's kind of a route to the right of the ball of your foot. And so I, and somebody recommended. I went and saw somebody and got bespoke orthotics and, you know, paid the 200 quid to get them. And, and, and they really helped me. They made a massive difference. And it, it stopped me getting Morton's Neuroma again for the. Even though I was running longer and longer. So they're absolutely brilliant, but they irritated me because they wore through in about a year. They lasted me about a year before I worn through on the arches of my feet. And then they started giving me blisters. So I was like, I don't really want to be spending 200 quid every year on another set of orthotics. And. But I kind of stuck with them because they'd been so helpful, you know, with this, Morton's Neuroma. And then a client of mine from my financial planning business was an investor in a. In a business that does insoles. And he just introduced me to them because of the podcast, actually. And I started using these. They're called Earnitor, I think is how you'd say it. They're endorsed by usain bolt. They're 30 quid a pair.

They make you as fast as Usain Bolt.

Well, I like to think so when I'm running downhill.

But.

But they've been absolutely brilliant. And like, Instead of the 200 quid, they're doing exactly what for me, exactly what those 200 quid orthotics were doing. And of course, when you've got. When they're 30 quid, you can buy several of them, so you've got one in every pair of shoes as opposed to swapping them over. And then, of course, they last far longer as well, don't they? So I've been really, really impressed with them and I've been recommending to a few people, actually. Yeah. On the back of it.

I think it's really interesting and I think that's certainly a wider conversation, isn't it, about biomechanics? Because I just find that fascinating about how you're changing the whole time and there's probably periods of time where they might be really useful and I want, you know, I guess there's a point where you come out the other end where you don't need them any longer as well.

Yeah, I think. I mean, I know I've got flat feet, so I know that these I need something to support, kind of support the arch of my foot and these certainly do that. But the compound of them, I actually think in some ways is better than the bespoke orthotic I had. And I actually got discount code off them. So if anybody wants to try them, then you can find them at Earn a Tour, which is E N E R T O R. I hope I'm saying that right. I don't actually know earnator.com and it's triathlon 15 for a discount. But yeah, I found them to be really, really good. So, anyway, let's dive into the interview with Rudy Von ber. Rudy Von Berg is a professional triathlete that is rapidly rising to prominence. Currently ranked 10th in the world, he has won several 70.3 triathlon races, but now wants to follow in his dad's footsteps onto the long course of Ironman racing. Coming to the sport at an early age was triggered by his trip to Kona in 1998, where his father, one of the pioneers of triathlon in Belgium, went on to win his 40 to 44 age group category at the Hawaiian Man Ironman World Championships. So Claire and I wanted to learn from Rudy about the benefits of coming to the sport at such a young age, moving up to the long course, about how he uses gravel racing to improve his performances and his approach to fuelling his races. So I know you're going to really enjoy the interview with Rudy Von Bergman. Today's show is brought to you by Precision Hydration, who help athletes personalise their hydration and their fueling strategies so they can perform at their best. They help Some incredible athletes, including former podcast guest EMMA PALLANT BROWN pH, have tested my sweat and given me amazing advice in terms of the electrolyte strength strategies that I need to take to race at my best. They've also got their quick carb calculator to tell you how you can fuel at the right amount per hour, not just get the electrolytes right. So you can find out all about their online sweat test and their quick card calculator@precisionhydration.com and remember, if you use Tribathlon 15, the discount code Tribathlon 15, you can get 15% off your first order. Rudy welcome to the Tribeathlon podcast. I've also got Claire Fudge here joining me as well. I always like to kick things off by talking about your story. So how did you get into the world of triathlon and what were those early days like?

Yeah, so my dad got me into triathlon. He started pretty late when he was 27 and New York City had this really good job and just quit everything to become a professional triathlete, which in the early 80s was. Seemed a little crazy. But then he had me in 93 and very quickly, I mean, he was racing at that time. He was an age GROUPER and in 98 when I was 5 years old, that's my earliest memory is traveling to Kona for the world champs and seeing my dad win in the 40 to 44 age group. And yeah, so that's obviously when you're a kid, that's a huge event to go to and seeing all these superhuman athletes doing this awesome sport, it's definitely inspiring. And I went multiple times when I was 5, then when I was 9, then when I was 13. So something like that. I think seeing an event like that can definitely shape your passion for a sport.

Yeah, it must have been absolutely brilliant to see that as a youngster. So how did you take that into doing your first races? In fact, I think there's a bit of a story around your very first race, isn't there?

Well, there's one that I've talked about is one of my very first run races when I was very tiny and this local race that we had every summer in the streets of a village close from home. And the, the gunshot was so loud that I didn't never start the race and I was just crying on the start line. That was one of my earliest memories of race. But then, yeah, I mean, really early. As soon as you can do It. My dad brought me to triathlons and yeah, I quite liked it and I was fairly successful at it, so kept on doing it. But also early I was doing all sorts of other sports. I was doing tennis and soccer and basketball at school, so it was only one.

Were you a member? Was there a junior tri club that you can get involved with? You know, how did you get involved with triathlon at such a young age?

Well, I remember I was on the. I was on the cycling club, I was on a running team and I was in a swim club and so my schedule was quite full pretty early and. And then at wanna. I was also in the. In the triathlon club a little slightly later, but still, I mean, I was pretty young and yeah, just the local triathlon club and through that club that I was able to do some triathlon. Triathlons.

Fantastic.

So go on, Claire, was it quite natural for you to get into triathlon then? Or did you. Did you kind of. Was your dad kind of Very, very encouraging or is it something that you really wanted to do? Because it sounds like you had loads of sports that you could have. You could have sort of picked from.

Yeah, but in the end the main choice was between cycling and triathlon. So, I mean, I didn't see myself becoming a soccer player or I probably wasn't good enough anyways, or a tennis player. So, yeah, triathlon was kind of always in my head and my dad wasn't really pushing me. Oh, you have to do traveling because I'm doing it. That's. That was kind of my decision.

Brilliant. But it's. I think it must be amazing to get into. I mean, I only got into triathlon just before I turned 40, so it must be amazing to get into the sport at an age. I mean, that's a lot younger than most people get into it, I would suspect. Do you think? So clearly your dad was not putting you under any pressure, but was he sort of purely just inspiring you or was he actually even resistant to you doing it for any reasons?

No, he wasn't resistant. He always put a lot of value in sport for young kids or anyone in life, really. Just have a healthy lifestyle. That's really important for him. So he definitely always pushed us to be into sports and join. Try all sorts of sports and yeah, just do develop skills in different areas like that.

And I think. Is he still racing?

He is, yeah. He still loves it. He's still. Still trying to. He had a bad year last year just with a shoulder surgery and then his knee was bothering him. As well. But he had two surgeries and now he's motivated to get back to hopefully. I mean that's. That would be tough, but hopefully qualify for Kona this year if it happens. And first do an Ironman to qualify, which at his age is getting every year slightly harder. So see. But he's definitely still training every day.

Amazing. And do you think that because you've started so young and you've been sort of indoctrinated into this triathlon world at such an early age, Obviously there's this 10,000 hour rule that we say that the quicker you get to 10,000 hours, the quicker you become an expert. Do you think that that's put you at an advantage compared to other people that you're racing at that are a similar age to you?

Maybe a little, yeah. I mean the earlier you start, the better it is usually. I mean, triathlon is more of a. Yeah, hour. An hour sport and consistency. You know, develop the aerobic engine just throughout the years and. But it's also not as important as the more technical sports. You know, for example, tennis, you know, it's just, you know, doing the movement and develop that technique from a really young age that becomes ingrained, that triathlon. I mean running and cycling, you can start later and still become very good. So yeah, my answer is yes and no. So do you think.

You obviously were originally focusing on 70.3, weren't you? But are you now kind of starting to creep more towards is long course your main focus?

So I was gonna do my first Ironman last year in Ironman France, but I got postponed due to Covid till the week before, the week before 70.3 worlds. So I decided not to try to. And I got that. I knew about that pretty late into the beginning of the previous season. So I didn't want to just try to find a different Ironman. That didn't really excite me and kind of rush it. So I decided to do it the next year, which is this year. And so that's my plan. My first Ironman in June at Ironman France. And yeah, we'll see if I qualify for Kona as well.

And is that. Do you think that is your. Is that your main goal at the moment?

Is it.

Is it to qualify for Kona or do you think even if you qualified for Kona, you still sort of stick at 70.3 more for the time being?

Yeah, I definitely won't just fully transition to Ironman. I'll do max two per year Kona and one before. But yeah, I'LL still do quite a bit of 70.3s and the main goal for this first part of the season is that Ironman in France. It's not really, oh, I have to qualify. It's just really do really well at my first Ironman. And then if I qualify, I mean, I'll probably do it because a career can go by quickly and if I have an opportunity, I'll do it. But the calendar is quite difficult with the PTO Tour races and Kona and 70.3 worlds in St. George. There's a lot of races, you know, every month, every three weeks. So it can be difficult to be in top shape for all of those races. So I'll have to deal with my coach for that. I'll definitely do it if I qualify.

Having trained for 70.3 and done really well and doing really well at that distance. Has your training changed quite a bit in terms of training for your first Ironman? And have you kind of thought about, you know, that recovery afterwards? Because you've got like a really packed schedule, it sounds like.

Yeah, no, the training hasn't changed much for now. But I haven't really gotten yet into the Ironman specific stuff. So we'll see. Actually, I'll be able to answer this question better in a few months because, I mean, we only. I've only really done four weeks of training. I had Covid right after Christmas, so I started really, my training for this year, beginning of January. It seems like I'm having a little more Ironman pace type stuff, Just kind of to develop that aerobic plus, you know, system rather than doing more half Ironman pace. But I mean, I want to be very competitive in the 2/2 Ironmans coming up in Oceanside and North American champs. So, I mean, I'll still do all the. I still want to be fast at half Ironman. We'll see. I mean, the volume is probably going to be higher. It looks like this coming week already I'll have a solid week. That would probably be slightly more than in my typical half Ironman years. But also for me, it's been a little different because Mano changed things a little. I lost a lot of weight, obviously. I was sick for five weeks, lost some muscle in my legs. So I feel like I lost a bit of time there. But yeah, so we'll see. But yeah, I hope to be 100% in June for sure. But I have that little part of uncertainty that I hope Mano didn't make me lose too much.

Why is it that you've what's, what's the reason behind the deciding that you're only going to do two Ironmans a year for the, for a little while is that, you know, what's the reasoning behind that?

Well, the reasoning is just I don't want to do too many Ironmans. I still, there's still plenty of top end 70.3s, especially now with the PTO tour. I mean we're going to have $3 million prize purse races at the a hundred k distance, so even shorter than half Ironman. And so you can still, you can have a great career now just doing 70.3s and yeah, I just don't desire really doing only Ironmans. Yeah, 70.3 is a great distance. And when I was saying 2, it was just meaning to do a qualifying race essentially. And yeah, no more.

But I suppose the great thing is if the purse is there for 70.3s, you can do lots more 70.3s than you can do Ironmans.

Yeah, that too. But also I'm the type, I think that I'll be more like a young Ferdina type where I really want to prepare for races and do really well at them rather than try to race every race. So. Yeah.

Okay, fantastic. And so just kind of summer up your career so far. What's the, what's been the highlight? What's, what's been your highlight in the career so far?

The highlight has been winning five regional championship 70.3s and then podiuming at 70.3 worlds.

Where was the 70.3 worlds that you remind me where that was where you podiumed.

East and France.

Okay, fantastic. And do you prefer racing in Europe or in the US.

Generally Europe, because the bike courses are prettier, more technical, little more up and down also. Yeah, just funner rows in general.

Okay.

Yeah.

And what's your. Claire and I were chatting beforehand and she wanted to know what your toughest.

Race has been and has it like taught you anything in particular? So sometimes we have these great races are actually some of our best races because they teach us so much. So I don't know if you've got one that springs to mind.

Well, there's one. I won it. So it's not like the type words in the feet. I learned the most. But it was a race, it was 70.3 South American championship in 2019 and it was similar to the European championship where I beat Gomez, where in my head I was like, I have to drop this guy Pablo Dapena on the bike because he's run a 109 every half he's done this year. So, like, if I don't drop him, I'm not winning. And I was the defending champ from 2018, so, I mean, I gave it all on the bike, kept on surging, tried to drop him, and I just couldn't shake him. So getting onto the run, I was thinking, okay, well, this is gonna be very hard. I mean, I don't see how I can beat this guy now that we're together on the run. And. But mentally I was like, okay, well, I don't care. I'm just gonna have to run my best run ever and beat him and that's gonna be it. And I started super fast. The first 3K he caught me, passed me. He went up maybe 20, 25 seconds ahead of me. And then slowly I started bringing him back and I ended up beating him and running. What was it, 110 half. But my. The big thing I learned is all these surges really kind of killed his run legs. And yeah, he was. He ran a111 high or112.0 or something, which was slow for him, but still not a bad half a marathon off a bike. And so, yeah, just the thing I learned was like, I can kind of kill the legs off of these good runners and start still run pretty solid if I'm in good shape.

And yeah, how you'd usually attack the kind of the run leg or is that. Was that very different? Was that very. In the moment that you decided that you were. You were going to go kind of all in and just see what happened?

Right. I mean, that was my only chance really, is to put pressure on him really early in the run. So I had a fast transition and started, I mean, between 310 and 315 per km for 3K's. And so it took him over 3K to just catch me from the 10 seconds he had out of transition. And then also I was fortunate to just happen to be in a really good day. I mean, at that time, that was my fastest half marathon that I did. And yeah, thankfully my bike legs also hurt him quite a bit. So, yeah, never, never think you're defeated till you are defeated, I guess.

Awesome. Do you?

Do you.

It seems to go in waves as to sort of the people are winning the races are the strongest cyclists or the runners. You've just made a really good point there in that because I think you'd consider yourself a stronger cyclist than runner, wouldn't you? But you defeated a faster runner by breaking him on the bike. Do you Think that, that you know, if you could choose which your strongest one was, would you still choose the bike?

Uh, definitely. I'd rather be a front runner in a race than always be kind of oh he's a strong runner. He might catch these guys but usually won't, you know. And the, the bike is the longest section also time wise. So I think it's more interesting to, to be ahead on the bike. Yeah.

Did you think like going into like Ironman distance, how do you, how you thought that's going to kind of work out? Because obviously, obviously proportion wise you've got a long time, haven't you on the, on the bike. So if you kind of thought about. I'm sure you have thought about it. But in terms of how that might work, right.

I mean I definitely the idea for me, for Ironman is to be among the best runners of the top bikers. So it's not necessarily I'm going to crush myself on the bike and Ironman cause that's very risky and try to survive a marathon. That kind of makes no sense for an Ironman. So kind of be towards the front of the race without the top end runners but still with a few guys and then be the best runner of those uber bikers essentially.

So I remember chatting to Kat Matthews and it astonished me that she hadn't run a marathon before she did her first Ironman. Have you run, have you run a marathon given that you're building up to your first Ironman? You haven't either.

My first marathon will be in the Ironman. Yeah.

I just find that I know when I did my first Ironman I had to go and run a marathon beforehand because I couldn't face the idea of getting off the bike and going. I've never got to run further than I've ever run in my life. How are you? Why have you chosen not to go and run a marathon? Just because it messes up the training too much or are you just very comfortable that you're going to nail it?

Well, it's not really a decision. I mean I just know I'm not going to get a marathon in my typical training with my coach's plan. And yeah, it's kind of what you say. I mean it's all about consistent training and no heroic session. So if I'm running I'll be running at my peak between 80 and 100k a week. So that's, I mean more than two marathons a week combined. I mean it's fine. It's. We're not really Scared of the distance. We're, we're mostly scared of. I mean, I don't know, I'm not really scared. Scare is not the right word.

It's more about getting the pacing right that fascinates me as to how you can. So what's the longest you think you.

Will have run before?

In one obviously in one go before you run the imo.

I actually don't know till now for halves. My long, my longer runs were 28k so I'm guessing my long runs will be maybe max 36.

Right.

Okay. So yeah, we'll see. I mean it's just, yeah it's as I said, the consistent work, getting those leg muscles resilient and cause Ironman is you know, after 30k you don't want your legs to just fall off because energy wise I think I'll be fine if I mean, yeah, it should be fine. I've never done it so we'll see. But it's more just. Yeah, I don't want my legs to be just crushed and 420 per K feels you know, super fast.

But so talking about energy, how are you going to change your fueling strategy from what you use for 70.3 up to Ironman and are there any specific products that you think work particularly well for you?

Well, I'm sponsored by Never Second which is kind of similar to Martin where it's really easy for the body to absorb and very easy on the stomach as well. So it's quite good for Ironman and it's been founded by Oscar Jochen Drop who's a top nutrition guys essentially. And I'm actually going to schedule a message. I'm actually yesterday we're going to schedule a call to establish kind of my Ironman nutrition plan and since he's the founder of the nutrition I use. Well that's super easy as well.

Yeah, fantastic. But will your, will your nutrition strategy, I mean obviously you'll need more of it but will it change drastically in terms of its, in terms of its concept?

No, no. I mean it'll, it'll be a typical thing that I'll have to train my gut in training a little to be able to absorb a higher amount of carbs per hour. So hopefully around 90 grams an hour and yeah, and also you want to take more carbs per hour when you're on the lower intensity parts of the race to really get it in you and then when you're in the high intensity parts take slightly less.

So will that, will that involve just using gels? The never Second gels or will it be. Will you be using the sort of liquid, high liquid fuel as well or you know what sort of combination we use?

Yeah, usually I rely more heavily on liquids. So they have this C90 high carb mix. So that's just 90 grams of carbs that I would take one bottle an hour, but that's pretty concentrated. So if it's pretty hot, I'll probably want to take also more bottles of maybe C30, which is 30 grams an hour. Or I can put two scoots and have 60, so I can really combine it anyways. So I think it'll be more liquid and then add some gels as well. But yeah.

What do you. What do you think is your, like on the. On the note, nutrition have you had. Just thinking back through some races, what's kind of been your worst nutrition mistake, do you think? Like kind of starting out with there's some things that you did that you think, God, I'd never do that again. Or things that actually made you change your. Your nutrition?

Not really. I haven't had really any huge issues with nutrition. I just Remember one Boulder 70.3 race where I just. Well, that was in the early days. I was still taking just like Gatorade on the bike, but just the normal Gatorade. And I remember it was a combination, not enough calories and fluids and I bonked the last 5k, but that was like my only bonk ever in a 70.3. And then more recently, one thing I do is at the aid stations, I used to take everything. Coke, Red Bull race, energy product, mix it all. And that might be a little too much to mix it all. And so now I take on that for a half. I take three gels on the run and then only water at the aid stations. So that's easier. Just stick to your nutrition and then have just the water.

Yeah. And it helps you to kind of calculate what you're doing, doesn't it as well? So.

Right.

Which is. Which is really good. And is there. Is there anything that you kind of. We, Charlie and I were talking about this on a race. We've just done like things you kind of always have sort of after racing. So their foods that you always go to, like recovery foods or just foods that you really fancy to have afterwards or drinks that you fancy to have afterwards.

I mean, usually if I'm in the US or a burger sounds like pretty good after a race, but not immediately because the stomach is always a little sensitive right after a race. Um, but if not, no it's, it's just nothing really specific. It's just kind of what I can.

Find something quick and easy.

Yeah, you'll be lining up. You'll be lining something up. Well, if you're anything like me, you'll be lining up exactly what you have after your first Iron Man. I know I was very specific about what if. I had a bit of a falling out with the restaurant because there's a bit of a language confusion and the pizza I ordered was not the pizza I've been thinking about for the prior few hours. So I'm sure you should. But so it sounds like for you.

That would be the burger while in France. No, it won't be a burger. I'm just thinking of like in Oceanside, for example, we always go to in and out burgers after the race. But in France. Well, we'll see. Hopefully I do well and we can have a celebration in this nice restaurant in Monaco we usually go to for celebrations. So we'll see if I can that one.

Excellent. Sounds like it's a good place to celebrate is Monaco.

Maybe I get no food if I don't do well. Maybe I can only get a small dinner.

I've heard you mention on podcast and I a bit about gravel biking. Is that something you're quite keen on? Do you want to do more of it? You know, where does that fit into the rest of the training?

Yeah, I kind of mentioned it earlier. I did biking, cycling, racing when I was younger and it was kind of a decision at one point, okay, do I do only triathlon or do I go full into cycling? So I've always loved the cycling aspect of it and kind of the tactics around it and you know, just the change of phase. You're attacking the mountain passes and downhills and all. And so gravel races is. Racing is kind of a way for me to do that and I love watching cycling also on TV and on gcn. Plus I never miss any cycling race. So yeah, it's kind of really fun for me to get, get into a peloton and mix it up with some pro cyclists because the race I'm doing in California, the Belgian Waffle ride. Yeah, it's one of the, it's the first race ever to have a $50,000 price purse. Usually they, they had no prize purse or just, you know, 500 bucks, like just tiny purses. So it'll be a pretty high level race. 215, 220ks with about a hundred ks of gravel. 120 on the road with A lot of elevation. So, yeah, it should be really good fun. And it's actually the race I'm the most excited for for the first part of the season.

Brilliant. Do you think that the gravel racing and the training that you do for that kind of brings an extra level to your triathlon training?

Not really, but because I don't really. I'm not going to specifically do gravel training. There's a lot of change of pace in those races, which I'm not gonna train specifically for that. I'll just do it on my triathlon training fitness. I'm just gonna do a few gravel rides before the race, and technically, I'm usually fine, so. Yeah, but it's not specific.

So the one area that I thought you might say was that the. It might help you with it, you know, be a part of your descending skills. I think you, you know, your. Yourself descending skills on the bike are probably better than most. Where. Where did that come from? And what. Are there specific things that you focus on to improve your descending?

Yeah, I mean, it just came from growing up in south of France, just riding the roads there. It just came naturally to. Yeah, just be good at more technical and narrow roads, descending. And a lot of people grew up in the US and they don't really have these type of roads, so it's a little more difficult. You know, in general, European triathletes are better at descending than Americans. So it just comes from that.

Is there something, you know, are there specific things if somebody wants to improve their descending that they should be, you know, practicing kind of thinking about.

I mean, for me, it's all about trajectory. Just kind of having a sense of the lines to take and then just being confident in your tires, essentially. Because sometimes after a crash, you know, you're like, you don't dare to lean a little more because you think your tire is just gonna slip away. So it's just kind of doing it over time. Practice and training. Now be like, oh, it's training. So I'm gonna go super slow on every downhill. I go fast in every downhill, but it's always in control. It's not like I'm trying to push my limits, but it kind of. Yeah, it gives you that confidence with the grip of the tires and. Yeah, and I mean, as I said, trajectory is everything, really. And that's what makes you go fast and downhill. If you have the wrong trajectory, you're gonna go slower and kind of mess up the terms. So do you.

Do you select your races based on. On the sort of the Opportunities to excel at descending or does it not really enter the thought process?

Not really because I select racism but more based on prize money if it's a championship race, things like that. But then for Ironman France, for example. Well, that's. Well, the main reason is because I grew up there and then the second main reason is because the bike course is a lot of fun and the road, the roads I did in my childhood and yeah, just more up and down and some fun technical downhills. So yeah, that's a big reason for that one. But apart from that. No, I tell myself I have to be good at any course, even a Daytona super flat zero turns bike course.

So another are there with that in mind. You know you've mentioned the sort of the cycling courses being that much more interesting in Europe. Are there. Have you got a bucket list of Ironman races? I mean it's. I sense that Kona is going to be fairly high up that. But do you have a list of races that you're really keen to do?

Not really, actually there's. I just. It's kind of what I said. I'll just follow the, the big race, the big production races with the prize money and the, the championship fields. I've done for example, the Alpe d' Huez triathlon multiple times. That's on the bucket list of other people. Yeah, I mean I definitely would like to do some more fun just bike courses and triathlons rather than just flat and fast. But in the end a career. I'm not going to change my calendar just to do that if it's less prize than me and it's a raised and people don't really care about. So I just want to do well at the big races essentially.

So I suppose you've got plenty of time to go back to do those bucket list race races after, afterwards, haven't you?

Right, exactly. I can probably do that after my career if I'm not sick with triathlon at that time.

It sounds like you've got plenty of other sports to go to if you are. So that's good. How do you. On some of the like you talked about kind of, you know, growing up in France and learning to descend and that, you know, keeps your head very busy, doesn't it, when you've got lots to think about. How do you, how do you kind of keep yourself kind of on track and kind of your head sort of in the race when it's very flat? So I'm thinking about things like the Daytona course and other kind of flat Races. So how do you. Do you have any particular tactics or any kind of like psychological strategies that you use to kind of keep yourself in the race?

No, not really. I mean, in every race we're just really concentrated on what we're doing, the effort and attrition, the competition around us. When do I want to push or when do I want to back off a little? And yeah, so even the really flat courses that people say, oh, Daytona, that must be so boring. I mean, you're really concentrated the whole time on all the aspects I just mentioned. So yeah, it's. It's not really a problem.

Seem to be same tactics, no matter whether it's. It's kind of something that's descending or something that's like technical or flat.

Right. I'd say maybe in the downhills you tend to kind of more going with the flow actually and forget about everything else. You concentrate on your, on your actual descent, that on the flat course you're maybe thinking about all the other aspects a little more. But now overall, I'd say it's kind of the same mental aspect.

And how did you deal with 2020? So clearly, you know, did you keep your training as it was before? Did you have a break? Would you, would you change anything about 2020 with the benefit of hindsight?

Yeah, in hindsight I think I would have trained more and harder because with no races. Because a lot of guys who train usually too much when there is racing, they kept on doing that before long periods in 2020 when there's Covid and they actually went to the next level. So actually in hindsight, yeah, thinking there was no races, I would have liked to just train to the max of my ability, knowing there's no races. So no problem. Cause we were always like, oh, okay, this next race is canceled, but there's this one after. So we're going to build slowly for that one. But knowing that I didn't race till September. Yeah, I would have liked to just kind of forget about the plan and go crazy and do whatever I wanted and try to hit the biggest weeks I could and just these are things that are fun for us.

And are you one of these athletes that has a pretty high training load generally or compared relative to other professionals or. Or not so much.

I don't. Not so much. I don't know if that's social media. You always think the others are training more, but it seems like a lot of guys are. Yeah, constantly putting massive weeks. I saw this pro triathlete, this French girl who posted Yesterday, she did 102 hours in the last three weeks, which is absolutely insane. That's 34 hours a week. And I mean, I know her. And yeah, there's just. And I see these other German triathletes, you know, consistent, you know, 31 hours at the training camp followed by 28 hours. And, yeah, I don't see how. I couldn't even do that. I mean, that's just too much volume. I'd be too tired. We're building step by step. So I started while the first week was maybe 18 hours and it was 23. 23 hours, and then less slightly easier days, so 21 hours. And last week was 24 hours. So it's solid, consistent work. But I can't get in those 30 to 30 plus hour weeks. That's just crazy to me. So my peak weeks are, you know, 29 hours. So. Which is already quite a bit of training.

Yeah, it sounds. That sounds like a lot to me. But yes, relative to others, it's not. It's not as much. And I think. I think it was on your Instagram feed that I picked up either that or it was on your PTO bias at your bio that your. Your approach to training is slow down. Do you want to explain what you mean by that?

Yeah, I mean, it's all about. I mean, obviously that's due to my coach that I work with, Luke van leard, since 2018, but I really believe in it as well. Yeah, it's. Before I did, all of my workouts were hard, pretty much. Or try to go as fast as you can. And I mean, that doesn't really work. Triathlon is an aerobic sport by essence, and you really need to develop that aerobic capacity. And your. Your engine and your mitochondria develops much more when you're doing zone two, which is really important for blood circulation, all that, and which makes your body essentially work better for long distances. So that zone two is really important. And you always see a lot of athletes that change coaching philosophy. They're like, oh, I haven't done much intensity at all. And. But then I did my first few sessions and I was so surprised. I felt really good. So that's kind of the idea behind it. Yeah. Develop the aerobic engine and sprinkle some intensity and you should feel quite good. But yeah, that's.

That's also another message that Kat Matthews was very much sending out. She said, you know, I think she was talking about the athletes that she coaches and saying that, you know, often she's having to tell them off because they're, they're training faster than she is, and yet she's the professional athlete and they're, you know, certainly not a professional athlete.

So I think that's the story of my life. People always are faster than me in training. But that's.

It's good to have that discipline, isn't it, of knowing what you wanted. In fact, actually, our last podcast guest, Charlie Spedding, who won a marathon Olympic medal for Great Britain in the, in the 80s, he was always like, you know, these guys are training faster than me. But it's not, you know, I'm training to exactly what I set myself.

As.

A target rather than kind of getting mentally caught up with going faster. Do you find it easy to stick to that approach?

Well, it's easy and it's also the hardest thing to do. It's easy because I believe in it and I just, I don't want to go harder because I know it actually I'll get less effect. Yeah, it's funny how that works. I mean, in interval sessions, for example, you actually get less effect, less training benefit from the session. If you go, let's say 5 or 10 seconds a K faster, like, I can do it, but I'm not gonna do it. And I'll get less effect because it's not developing the right zones. And yeah, essentially it won't make me as good. So on that side, it's easy on the other hand, to constantly be kind of the slowest person and always kind of holding yourself back, and that's pretty tough. And being consistent throughout the years doing that, when sometimes, you know, it's just in our nature, you just want to forget about it and go fast. So, yeah, there's kind of two sides to it.

So I always like to ask people on this podcast, are there any books that you find yourself recommending, any books that have been really important to you over the course of your career?

So I've actually in the last couple years starting reading more. Before that, I wasn't reading that much, but right now, I started not long ago, a brick 1,100 page book about some heroes of the Second World War, actually young guys that left France when the Germans came in and went to Great Britain and started fighting for the Free French Army. And I think that's really inspiring. It talks about more powerful times and just, it kind of puts things into perspective than just how I really have to nail this run session today. I mean, these guys just left everything, their family, their country to go fight for a country. And people always Think, oh, it's so different than now, it's different times. But actually, no, it's literally, you and me would. Would be in the same situation right now if that happened these days. We'd have to take a decision to leave everything we know to go fight. And so I just find it powerful, kind of, to be reading stories like that.

So what was the book called?

It's called Caracalla. C A R C A double L A.

Brilliant. And is that in French, as in it's not?

Yeah. And right before that, I read the book about Andre Agassi, the tennis player Open. And yeah, that was quite a good read as well. And next I have the new Brownlee book, Relentless. I think that's it. Yeah, Relentless.

That's really good. I thought that was an excellent book. Particularly good if you're interested in a multitude of sports because each chapter is about somebody different and it's everybody from footballers to triathletes to snooker players. But. But actually, I've had a couple. Couple of people have recommended Andre Agassi's book. I haven't read that, so I will be adding that to my reading list, so thank you. And I suppose the final question is, what are you most looking forward to? You know, what's your. What's your big goal in the year or so ahead?

I mean, my big goal is Ironman France. My first Ironman. I really want to do well at that. It's my first one and I've been literally thinking about this race since I was 15 years old or whatever. Like, one day I'll do the Ironman at home and I will win it. So I hope to do well that one, and it can kind of be a statement for the next part of my career as well. I mean, if you do really well at your first Ironman, it's kind of this whole new round of possibilities that opens up to an athlete, for the media and for myself. And so that can be quite nice. And then, well, if I qualify for Kona, well, that would be that. And 70.3 worlds in St. George will be the kind of second highlight of the year.

Brilliant. And I suppose, I suppose to loop back to where we started this conversation, would you want your children getting in? Given that your dad has watched you rise through the ranks to achieve amazing things in a sport that clearly he loves, would you want your children to be taking that same path? Are you hoping to inspire them into following you?

Yes, I think it would be a great path to follow because it's an awesome lifestyle, really. I'm free to do whatever I want, I'm healthy, I'm outside, I have clear goals. You know a lot of people struggle with that in their day to day job. They don't really have a clear goals and aspirations. So yeah, I mean everything is really good. It's such a. Yeah, just a good, free, healthy lifestyle. So I mean of my life. So yeah, I would want my children to have a similar life if they want it.

I remember listening to Sharon Davies who is a Team GB swimmer back in the Claire, help me out here. 90s, would it be 2000, something like that. I was hearing her speak and she said that she wouldn't want to inflict on her children. While she loved it, she wouldn't want her to put her children through the same training that she did as a child. So I think that's. Sorry, say again?

She was a swimmer. Yeah, yeah, that's a little different, right?

Yeah, exactly. But that's why I think it's really interesting. So the triathlete is saying, I love this life, I want to put my children through the same thing. A swimmer is saying, actually I'm not sure I'd do the same.

Yeah, it is, it's tough. I mean you're. I mean it's kind of mind boggling every day, you know, here we go again, three sessions. It's going to be three to six hours of training every day. I mean it's kind of. You just have to do it day by day because if you think about it, it's crazy really the amounts of training we do. But I think it's a pretty great lifestyle, so.

Well, it's just the lovely thing about triathlon is you're not getting bored of one sport, are you? Because you're doing three day in, day out.

So yeah, that definitely keeps it fresh. And, and the doing long distance triathlon where you don't have federations and politics into it kind of makes it also that much better. You can do your own calendar too. You're really so free, you know. You know you can. I'm going to Maui to do a training camp just because I decided to. And I'll go to Ironman France because it's close to home and I want to do it. You know, it's really so much your own decision what you want to do. That's pretty big.

Well, you've certainly sold it to me. I think I'm a little bit late to the party, but it sounds like an amazing lifestyle. Rudy, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to You. Thank you so much. There's a lot of inspiring words there and it's been. Yeah, can't wait to see how your career continues to flourish. And we'll be looking out for you at Ironman France, for sure.

Awesome. Sounds good. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys.

If you want to find out more about Rudy, the best place to find him is on Instagram. And there he is, Rudy von Berg. So what did you make of that chat with Rudy, Claire?

It was great. I particularly kind of love the kind of how he's come into triathlon and the fact that obviously his dad was in triathlon, but it seems like it was very natural step for him. There were other sports and the fact he really enjoys it still now genuinely came across like he really loves his sport. And I think that's just amazing to kind of hear someone where he is in his sport right now to still be really, really enjoying it.

I totally sold the lifestyle to me. I was, I was there. I just could do with dropping about 25 years to give me, give me a shot at it. But, yeah, I think I thought it's interesting how different a lifestyle is as a professional triathlete compared to. Compared to the, like the swimmer that we talked about with Sharon Davis. I think it's. It is a different lifestyle altogether and a really lovely one. And I think you're right in the sense that it was great to hear him inspired by his dad and going into the sport because he wanted to, not because he was pressured into it and how, you know, he'd still want the same for his children in years to come.

So.

Yeah, and I definitely. And I also think that there is this. It might not be a technical sport, but I still think the 10,000 hours piece is really important because, you know, like the descending skills and like.

You.

Know, like his strategy in the races.

That's good.

I mean, you know, he's of an age now similar age to when Laura Siddall did her first triathlon. Well, he's got this wealth of experience that will only just help him as his career continues.

And I think learning something when you're young makes such a difference. You know, the fact that he was growing up in France and, you know, had a bike, was learning to descend on those really technical kind of downhills. That's got to play a big part in how you then transfer that as an adult kind of into racing compared to other athletes, you know, in terms of confidence. And I don't think you can build that as much as an adult as you can when it's so kind of, you know, in ground as a. As a child.

And it's how the sport is changing, isn't it? Because it's, you know, particularly the long course. It used to be that people were coming to it really with, you know, they were coming into it so late 20s, 30s and, and, and sometimes older. Whereas now it's, you know, these people have got so much more experience in triathlon and, you know, because it's a more professional sport than it was and it's continually getting more and more professional with the PTO coming in. So that's only just going to. It's going to just go from strength to strength, isn't it?

Absolutely, yeah. And it'll be interesting to see like, you know, the fact that he kind of. He still loves the 70.3, but really has kind of this kind of wants to do Iron man and kind of gets Kona and, And I guess for him, like, he didn't really say that, but I guess for him, you know, that those memories from when I think he said his first childhood memory was at five, that he can remember kind of dad being out there and winning. Did he win age group? I can't remember what he said.

Yeah, he won 140 to 44 age.

It's just amazing. And you know, I guess kind of being there must be kind of, you know, how, you know, he must hold something quite special if he gets there and does that. Yeah, I'm sure we will.

Yeah. Yeah, it's fantastic. And it's, you know, I think for any parents out there that are, that are looking at triathlon, they go, well, look, this is, you know, dad going off and doing this has inspired son to go off and do this. I think it's, you know, certainly I would hope that. I suspect that only one of my daughters will have any interest in following that, but she's expressed an interest at the moment, so it'd be just amazing if she decided that she did want to follow that. But yeah, no, really lovely guy and loads to share. And I actually, the other thing that I thought was just, you know, you can't hear it enough times is that so many of us train too fast, too long, too hard, and actually just kind of being delivery. Executing perfect training to steal Charlie Spedding's words is. Is more important than being the fastest on the track at the time or.

The number of hours that you're doing that that then equals better racing and actually, you know, a bit like, you know, everything. And I always say that about nutrition. It is. It's just so individual. You've got guidelines out there, you've got coaches out there, but you've got to know what works for you and what works for your body. And I think, you know, that's what he kind of was saying. You know, this is. That would kill me to do that. Like this. This works for me. And, you know, he trusts in his coach and trusts in himself, doesn't he?

Yeah, yeah. No, really lovely guy. I'm not sure I'll be reading his French book recommendation. I'm not sure my French is up to.

I definitely won't be picking that one up, I must say, just because I never get through it.

It sounded. Sounded really interesting. I was bought into it.

And then I'm sure there's some. There's probably some English translation.

If it's an English translation that's on the audiobook, then I will be interested, but. Oh, great. It's been great to catch up with you, Claire. Thank you for joining me on that interview. Loads of good lessons that can all take from that. So keep up your training and for everybody else, yeah, keep on training. If you enjoyed this podcast, please do review it and share it because it helps other people find what we think is really valuable learning lessons from amazing athletes leads. So please do that. You can also find the whole back catalog@tribathlon.com and you can also find out about the Tribe Athlon app, which helps people find events, find people to train with and enjoy their events through their tribe. So check out tribathlon.com.