Giddy up triathlon coaching with Michellie Jones

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding.

And I'm claire fudge and this is.

The tribe athlon podcast.

When you like looking at a race like think about the worst possible things that can happen or the worst possible weather. And if it is like that you're like yeah, I can handle this. And if it's not, you're like woohoo.

That was McKeely Jones and this episode is Giddy Up Triathlon Coaching. Jones was an Australian triathlete who won two ITU Triathlon World Championships, an Olympic silver medal when triathlon made its Olympic debut and the 2006 Ironman World Championship. She also won a gold medal at the 2016 Summer Paralympics as a guide to Katy Kelly when para triathlon also made its debut in the Paralympics. She now spends her time coaching other triathletes and around her other passion which is horses. So Claire and I wanted to chat to Michele about the race day mentality, about how she focuses on controlling the controllables, the power of artificial intelligence in coaching, quietening the chimp brain, and also the power of visualization. There is loads of really great stuff in this episode, loads of brilliant tips on really getting the best out of your performance from a mental point of view. So I know you're going to really enjoy this interview with McKeely Jones. 33 fuel produce award winning natural sports nutrition and everything they do is led by their philosophy for performance, for health and for a fitter future. 33 Fuel's awesome products have been fuelling triathletes worldwide since 2012 as well as many of the world's best athletes. So from the England football team to Tour de France winners and triathlon world champions including four times Ironman world champ Chrissie Wellington who's been using 33 fuel for years, 33 fuel also leads sports nutrition sustainability with plant focused formulas for reduced environment impact, recyclable packaging and carbon neutral delivery on all orders which also got them rated by Runners World as one of the top 50 EcoHero companies worldwide. Another reason why I love what Warren and Erica are doing at 33 fuel. So to find out more about 33 for go to 33fuel.com and if you use the code tribathlon or click the link in the show notes, you'll get an extra special discount when you purchase your amazing stock of 33 fuel. So McKeely, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast. Really looking forward to chatting to you. I know from listening to you on other podcasts there is going to be lots of wisdom in today's chat for listeners. We've obviously got Claire here with us as well. But to kick things off, I always like to start with the story. So tell us a bit about how you got into triathlon and kind of tell us the story through to your first big success. What you would class is your first big success.

Well, my talent identification was actually race walking. So in Australia we have the Australian Institute of Sport. And yeah, my talent identification was race walking. Even though I was running like the 3800 and the 1500, apparently my talent was going to be race walking. Thank goodness my high school run coach, John White, suggested I do triathlon. So the first race I ever did was in January 26th of 1988, only just like yesterday. And it was actually a swim run and we swam in the Sydney harbor and then we ran across the Harbour Bridge, which is interesting, right, because that's basically where the Olympics end up being in 2000. So I started my first race pretty much right where the Olympic triathlon ended up to be. So, yeah, like I grew up in a small country town. I. I'm a twin. I'm an identical twin, so I'm a little competitive. Although my twin sister will tell you the three times that she's beaten me third grade, once when we, we did a race, but she did it a couple of years later and she beat my time and then once in a triathlon when I got disqualified. Yes. So, yeah, grew up and like my first triathlon, actual triathlon I ever did, I think I was second overall and I won my age group and then it sort of progressed. I made my first World Championship team in, in 89, but I couldn't afford to go. And then my second World Championship team was in Orlando, Florida, and I ended up 13th and the next year I ended up being world champion. Actually I was third and then I was world champion. So, yeah, it's like when you look back, it was like 13th at Worlds, third at Worlds, and then I won Worlds in 1992 and 1993. So pretty amazing when you start looking back at how quickly my success actually was. And literally I paid for college through my triathlon wins. You know, I do a local triathlon, you get 500 here, 500 there. A lot of my friends were jealous because they had to get like regular jobs and I would just go race on a weekend and pick up a couple of hundred dollars.

Sounds like a much better way to earn a bit of money actually than a casual job. Yeah, exactly.

Not that I'm associating Aussies with Bar work or anything like that. But. So which of those two ITU wins the World Championship wins was the most special and why. So tell us a bit about one of them and why it was the most special.

Well, the first one was in Muskoka, Canada, in 1992. And, I mean, I'd had a really good season and. But it was, it was still like, I didn't go in the race thinking I was going to win. And then. To win your first World Championship, it was like a little bit of like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe this. Like, I just won the World Championship and I haven't been in the sport for, for very, very long. And yeah, it was. It was sort of like, surreal. Like, it was like. I mean, I knew I was in good form, I'd been winning races, but then to actually win a World Championship, it was like, it was still was like a little bit like, oh, my goodness, did this happen? But then, you know, the hardest thing was then to go back and defend, because then you already knew that what it was like. And the pressure and then. So to go back and defend the next year, I think that was probably even more special because, you know, the pressure was then the expectation was a lot higher, a lot more stress to deal with, so to be able to turn it around and, and still perform. And. I don't think I had a great race that day. I. I almost got dropped on the bike. It was really, really windy and hilly and cold. It was so cocky. It was. I was so cold in Manchester, England. I was so cold. I was in the car up until the right race start with the heater on as high as you could go.

Known for being rainy and cold in Manchester, so.

Hence why I don't want to do Iron Man Bolton.

It's funny, though, because, like, I don't like the cold, but even Muskoka was ridiculously cold, too. And it's like. And I seem to do well in the cold, and then I've done well in the heat. So I think I really did a good job of managing the conditions, although I hate. I hate racing in either one too hot or too cold.

Well, so does everybody else. Why this out of there as well. So. So. And then we had in, in the progression of your career, you had, Then you had the Olympics that you mentioned. So tell us about the Olympics because you obviously had an amazing result, but was it as amazing as you hoped beforehand and also afterwards? Because I think there was a story about it afterwards as well, wasn't there?

Yeah. So like, the Olympics to me was like, you know, there was a lot of talk that triathlon was going to be in the Olympics. And it's like, oh, that would be awesome. I never thought I would be good enough to ever be in the Olympics. And here I found a sport that wasn't in the Olympics, and now there was a lot of talk it was going to be in. And then finally to be in Sydney and in basically my. In my home country, not far from when I. Where I grew up. Like, absolutely fantastic opportunity for not just me, but all my friends and family who, like, have seen. Had seen me grow up in the sport of triathlon. They were going to get to see that whole spectacle of the Olympics in person, which they never would have been able to get to do if we were in another country. So, to me, the Sydney 2000 Olympics was way beyond my expectations. Did I win a gold medal? No, but I'm very happy with the silver medal. I feel like that was my destiny. And, like, even today, you know, sometimes I get asked a lot of the question, you know, do you wish you had a one? And I'm like, no, because maybe other things wouldn't have happened in my life. So there's so many great stories. Like, one of the stories I remember is we were lining up. We were about to line up for the swim start, and I look up in the stands and. And my twin sister Gabby was crying. And then I started crying because I could see my whole family. And I think that was the most unexpected part of it, of how emotional the whole experience was. Like, here I am in the biggest race of my entire career, and I'm crying and I'm like, get it together. Get it together. But that's part of, I think, that process of being in the Olympics, because even when we were warming up, the crowd was going nuts. They were already screaming, and we weren't even racing. And they're like, going, go, Aussie. Go, Aussie. So just a whole different level to any other race that I'd raced. And then, of course, the pressure of the Australian team, because we had finished the year before at the World Championships, we had finished first, second, third, fourth and fifth. So there was, like, huge expectations on us to actually totally dominate. And, you know, I think that was very naive on the federation's part, because triathlon is so dynamic and it's forever changing, and there's no guarantee in everything. And that's one lesson I learned very, very early. It's like, just because you did it in. In the past doesn't mean you can do it in the future. And there's always, like in a race that something happens that somebody will come out and have a race, that you never even counted them to be up where they were, or somebody gets sick, somebody get injured, or it's just not your day. And, you know, we're not just dealing with one sport. We've got to, you know, fine tune three sports and be on top of it on one day every four years. So lots and lots of pressure and. But, you know, I think we were lucky because triathlon was the first medal event on the Olympic program. So I won Australia's first medal for the Sydney 2000 Olympics. Like, how many people can say that? And I won triathlon's first ever silver medal. How many people can say that? That's the thing when you sort of. I guess I could say that I'm probably more of a pioneer in triathlon. I never thought I was when I was, you know, going through it, but now I look back and I'm like, well, you know, I was the first Australian to do this. I was the first ever athlete to do this. So it's pretty amazing when you look back and have the opportunity to, like, come from a sport that wasn't in the Olympics, to get into the Olympics and go through that whole process. You know, it's definitely very different to a lot of the other sports on the Olympic program that have been in for a long time. So, yeah, I feel very blessed that I, that I can say that I'm a silver medalist and. Yeah. That my friends and family got the opportunity to, to do that. And I was lucky enough to get my high school run coach and my twin sister in the Olympic village as well. So what an experience for them to come and see what, you know, that village looks like. You know, not many people get to experience that.

Fantastic. And am I right in saying it was Kathy Freeman, wasn't it, the, the, the Aboriginal lady that, that all the kind of pressure was built up around?

My goodness.

Yeah.

Unbelievable how much pressure. And, you know, it was funny because, like, I totally idolized her. I think she was just an amazing and still is an amazing athlete, an amazing person. And we're on the bus in the Olympic village and she's like, Congratulations, McKeely. And I'm like, cool. Kathy knows who I am.

Awesome.

Awesome.

But do you think that did. At the time, did you have as much expectation on your shoulders for winning triathlon gold or was it a different. I mean, because it was a new sport to The Olympics, was it different?

Well, you know, I knew I, I was well suited to the Olympic course. You know, I won the trials and I'd won on the course. So to me it's like if you look at the history of, of my results, if I do well once normally, I will do well again and again and again. So I knew it. The course totally suited me. So I definitely was confident that if I could rock up on that day, feeling great, and I did, you know, I felt fantastic and you know, everything came together. You know, I wasn't, I was pretty much out of the front pack, which was really good. And then on the bike it was just a tactical game. And then on the run, it's like the first lap was very, very easy. And then Brigitte McMahon, you know, really amped it up the, the second lap and I was the only one that was able to go with her. And you know, still at that stage I felt quite comfortable and confident and then, you know, she was just better than me on the day.

Yeah.

Wow. But it must have been awesome doing that in your, in your home home Olympics and triathlon being the. Its first making its first appearance in Olympics. Fantastic. So then you switch up to long course and you, I mean, again, you had amazing success really quickly, didn't you? I mean, I think you won Kona on your fourth Ironman distance race, which is pretty, pretty good going. How, how was winning at Kona, winning the, the Ironman World Championships compared to the Olympics and itu?

You know, I get, I get asked that question a lot and like one's a two hour race, one's like a nine hour race. So I mean, it's funny because I never thought I'd be good enough to be in the Olympics when I was growing up as a kid. And then I never wanted to do Ironman. I was like totally scared of it. I'm like, who wants to ride their bike for 112 miles in your swimsuit and then run a marathon? It was like, definitely. I was brought up more as a speed demon than a big diesel engine. But I think the disappointment of not making the, the next Olympic team, that really drove me to make some decisions. Like, I was like, I had won on the Athens Olympic course, so I knew it really suited me. And then, you know, I was figuring if I didn't get selected for the team, at least Emma Snowsill would be selected because, you know, we had great success at the world championships, but unfortunately I got injured and didn't have a great domestic season. And that's where they were selecting the team from. And it was devastating. I mean, I was like, oh my goodness. You know, this is what I wanted to do. This is what since Sydney, this is what I want to do. But, you know, I sort of sat down and I'm like, well, I still love triathlon, I still want to do it, but I really need to do something different. And I think that was the biggest challenge for me is, you know, finding Paula Newby Fraser and getting her to coach me because I knew I had a short window to sort of like learn how to be a very good Ironman athlete and have the belief. And I think the best advice she ever gave me was just treat it as another training day. And I still sort of live by those words when I'm coaching and when I'm racing myself. You know, it's like, how many times have we done this in training? You know, we can just do it, do it, do that on any given day. Some days it's harder, some days it's easier. So definitely she took the pressure off. And you know, it's a big risk, right? When you've been so successful at short course and then you step up to the Ironman distance, not everyone crosses over to that. But you know, as I said, I think I had the right person to get me across the finish line. And my first race was Ironman Florida. And I think I puked when I crossed the finish line and they had to carry me to my hotel because I couldn't walk one more step. And then, but, you know, that got me into Kona and then like, you know, I didn't have a great lead up. I fractured my hip leading into my first world championship in Kona. But I still managed to lead the race up until 18 miles on the run. And then Natasha Badman passed me and I'm like, my mind was willing but my body was not able. I'm like, come on, faster, faster. But you know, to finish second, I could have retired again. Then it's like, oh my goodness, you know, to get second at the Ironman World Championship, but definitely to come back and win it, that was definitely, I think, you know, the Olympics. To win an Olympic medal, it only happens every four years. But the fact, the distance of the Ironman, it's hard to pick which one's like the best. I think they're equal in different ways.

There must be some magic or we'll come back to the magic of, well, let's talk about it now. You look like you're about to Leap into a question, though, Claire, so I'm going to let you go first.

No, well, I was, I was just kind of thinking of. Of, you know, you talked about your silver medal in, in the Olympics and then sort of going into. Into Kona, and then you've also been a guide, so you've. You've won gold. Am I right in saying yes. How, how does that sort of, you know, what do you take from your own training and racing into guiding? Having kind of run with some guides before. I mean, it. It looks really hard work, but also, you know, that relationship has to be so strong, doesn't it? So tell us a little bit about sort of what you take from your own racing and training into. Into guiding.

Yeah, so, like, absolutely fantastic opportunity that I was given to, to guide Katy Kelly. And I think my biggest fear was like, oh, my goodness, what happens if I can't go hard and I'm slowing her down? Because something happened to me. I think that was my biggest fear, that I would be the anchor and she'd be like, Come on, McKeely, let's go. But I think having been through the Olympic process and having raced at the professional level, I knew what the expectation was going into the Rio Olympics, and, and I think that experience in Sydney really helped me sort of help her get through that. Basically the mental part of it, because, you know, physically, you know, a sprint race, yeah, it's just as hard as you can go. I mean, you know, for me, it's the race tactics as well. It's like, I think that's what my experience brings to the table as being a guide. You know, all that race experience that I have and, and being pretty calm and collected, even in stressful situations. So, yeah, like, you know, when. When we, when I first started guiding, you know, there wasn't any pressure on us because, you know, we didn't know what her level was going to be against the other competitors. And then as we get got more and more competitive, you know, I just kept telling her, it's like, you know, we. We can't concentrate on what everyone else is doing. We just have to have the best race that we can have. And, you know, I said, you know, I'll make sure I get you across that finish line in the best position, that you're capable on the day. And I also told her, I think right before we were going to start, you know, this is going to hurt like nobody. No other race you've ever done, but it's going to be well worth it at the end and that's part of it, right? That fear of and that embracement of like how much you have to suffer to get to the result that you want. But you know, I think for me, guiding is an, was an opportunity to give back and help somebody achieve a level that, you know, I was very successful at. And you know, to walk away with the gold medal having known her and the battles that she faced with her sight and hearing impairment and the injuries that she also faced leading up to, to the Games, you know, just such a special moment to actually physically cross that finish line. And you know, I pretty much said to her as we were almost finished, I go, slow down, stop. Take a moment. We've got plenty of time to take it in. You know, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that you get to cross the line as a gold medalist. So that's like where the experience comes in because you don't, in that moment, you don't understand how special it is. But if you've been there, you understand how special that is. So I'm like, I literally like pulled her back and I say, let's enjoy the last hundred meters. So you're, you really remember it. And I hope that she appreciates the fact that we did that because she was like, no, we gotta go, we gotta go, they're coming. I'm like, they're not coming. We've got it. Yeah, Amazing.

Awesome. With. So you mentioned within that and, and also before that, it's just one of the best piece of advices you received was it's just another training day. There anything else? Having had all of this success in different way, you know, different distances and different events across triathlon. Is there any other advice that you give your athletes kind of in the lead up to a big race to kind of calm the nerves and get the best out of themselves?

Yeah, I mean, I have so many, you know, because, because, you know, it's important to understand that, that you just have to have the best swim, the best bike and the best run you can have on the day. And again, it's taking that pressure off and it's like you just got to get through one to get to the other to get to the other, and then the result will speak for itself. And I always talk a lot about that chimp brain. Don't let the chimp brain interfere too much. It can chat away and it can have it say, but doesn't mean you have to listen to it. And at some point we all succumb to our chimp brain could have Slept in. Why are we doing this? Why don't you slow down? It's like, you know, it's like all those sort of things. So it's the lessons you learn in training, right? Training's way harder than racing. And I think if you can keep going back to those experiences where it was a hard training day and you're like, oh my goodness, I've done this, I can do it again. So that self belief, so the lessons I've always learned is like believe that you, you're capable of doing whatever you want to do on any given day. And some days it's going to feel harder and some days it's going to feel easier. But you know, the lesson for me is if you can walk away from any race having learned something, then you've won. So it's not always about winning that medal at the end of the day. It's about what did you learn? Because when you're winning a lot, you don't always learn a lot. Sometimes, you know, failure always leads to a lot of lessons like why did I fail? Why did this happen? And, and I think you know that, that ability to be consistent in your training, I think that's key because that's how you improve. And the more consistent you are in your training, the more consistent you're going to be in your racing. And I think that's a big lesson for, for people to understand that, you know, go to every session with the intent that you're going to be consistent. And the more that you're consistent, the more success you'll have, the better you come. Because that's the secret to getting better. It's consistency. You know, if you don't get injured, if you don't get sick, if you don't miss your sessions, if you rest and recover. Because I think that's the other component that people really forget about in that, in that racing component. It's like if you don't put enough rest in, in your training blocks or leading up to a race, it's like that's going to turn around and kick you in the butt because, you know, you get a little delayed fatigue or you know, you're not as fresh as you need to be and you know, it's having the confidence to be able to rest and go, you know what rest is training as well. And I think a lot of people get caught up in I got to train, I got to train harder and longer rather than smarter and, and use the recovery as a training mode as well.

Yeah, so you mentioned within that the chimp brain and that. So you're saying to try and quieten the chimp brain. I think my experience is that firstly it's difficult to necessarily engage that. Hang on, that's the chimp brain talking. Not necessarily what I really think. And so I'd be interested to hear any advice around that. And then, and then telling the chimp brain to shut up or ignoring it again. Any advice that you can give us around that?

Yeah. So that the chimp brain is always that self doubt. Right. That's how you identify it. It's the one in the morning when you know you don't have to get up, go back to sleep. It's the one that's always trying to pull you down. Right. And so like the thing is you're never going to like completely shut it up. It's not the way the brain works and the way that you mentally compress stuff. So it's like being confident that you've done the work, that you have a good team behind you and taking the pressure off a little bit. What's one small thing that I need to achieve today? I think that's important particularly for an Ironman athlete because the one small thing that you need to achieve on an Ironman is just to get to the finish line. That's the only thing. That's the one small thing. You know, it's a big thing but that's the one small thing that you do. It's like it doesn't matter what time you went. The most important part is get across that finish line and you know, everything else will happen after that. And I think part of that, that mental process is taking a moment, like I always would take a moment before a race start and, and visualize exactly where I wanted to be in the swim, bike and run and how it was going to feel at the finish. And you know it's important to keep like checking back. And it's funny because like before the Olympics one of my friends gave me an affirmation clock where right before you go to bed you put an affirmation in and it would like go louder to softer and then when you woke up it would go softer to louder and, and you know, it was interesting just like putting little things in and then I had a couple of friends who would put all sorts of stuff in, like they would like steal it and then next minute I'd be like listening to it and be like so and so is the best house guest ever.

I just trying to imagine what my children would be like If I owned one of these things, we set for midnight and.

Oh yeah. And it's just finding that peace, I think that's the most important thing, being at peace with the fact that, you know, this is what you want to do. And I think every time you line up to a race it's like there's always self doubt, but knowing why you're doing it and knowing, you know, the effort that you put in to get here, it's like, you know, I have a couple of athletes that really, really doubt themselves. So we came up with this, this slogan like to say to basically their chimp brain and their self, can't talk right now. Doing fast girl. Shit.

I like that, that's a good one.

But you know, just doing like stuff like that, coming up with those little mantras like, can really, really help, you know, and every time, like they have self doubt, you know, they just have, they have to say something and she has to say, can't talk right now, doing fast girl.

How, how did you. Because you, you know, you've, well, you've done so many things in your, in your career. But how, how did you say? Thinking along the lines of kind of, you know, having a kind of a quieter head and, but then also these affirmations as well. How did you change that? Or did you change that from when you were doing sort of short course to long course to short course? Because you could obviously tell yourself quite yourself quite different things. So how did you, how did you manage that?

Well, you know, it's, it's sometimes you're going to fail and definitely it's that experience that you get from failing will help you deal with. Like I've been in high pressure situations and I'm like, man, I really screwed that up. Like I could have handled that better. So part of the journey is, is like those experience that you have is, is helping you when you're going to really need it. So I think, you know, going from no pressure starting triathlon and then the pressure building and building and building. You know, where I'd have athletes say, oh McKeely, you're going to win no problem. I'm like, no, I still have to swim, bike and run on the day. And you know, people like have this expectation all the time that, oh, you're McKiley Jones. You know, it's so easy for you. But you know, it's, it's hard work that gets you to where you need to go. And I think that's where the self belief comes in that, you know, what it's like, this is. All those hard workouts have led me to this point. And then, like, the belief of, like, thinking that I could never do an ironman, you know, that was part of the training process at each session you did. It's like, oh, you know, maybe I can do this. And then it's like, well, how do I run a marathon after swimming and biking all that way? And it's like, you know, just run from aid station to aid station to aid station. So that's another thing that's, like, really good is, like, breaking it down, you know, I just have to get to the first swim. Boy, I just have to get to the next one. I just have to get to the transition. All right? I just have to do 10 miles on the bike. I just have to drink every 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it is. I think when you can control what you can control, because that's the other big thing that I always say, control what you can control. Because you can't control what everyone else is doing. You can only control. And you can't control, like, the. The dynamics of what's happening in a race. But what you can control is you, like, you can control your breathing, you can control your pedal technique, you can control your form.

You can.

You can control, like, your path. Like, every 20 minutes, I need to do this, or it's like I just need to, you know, find a way to get myself to keep moving.

I was going to ask you about this specific terms. I've heard you talk about controlling the controllables before, but there was a story behind it as well where I think you. You set off on the swim of a triathlon without even the bike being in transition.

Yes.

So tell us about how you control the controllables in that example.

Well, you know, the thing was, I knew, well, you know what, at least I'm going to get a swim in today, and then hopefully my bike will be there. And it's like. And, you know, it's just one of those things. It's like, you know, I could have said, well, I'm not going to race. You know, I don't know if my bike's going to be in transition. But, like, I couldn't control that. I had other people dealing with that. All I control is get through the swim and see what happens when you get to the transition. And I think that's, like, a big part of it, right? Is like, when these things happen. Like, I turned up to a race and my bike never showed up. Another race, and it was like, the year it was in 2000. So it was an important race to get in, and everyone else was running around. So that's why, like, having a good team. A good team around you is important because they were running around freaking out that I didn't have a bike to ride. I'm like, they'll figure it out, you know, and if they don't, I'm still. I'm still going to do the swim and, you know, I'll still go for a run or something. And, you know, I think that's the important part is, like, thinking about, well, I can't control that the airline lost my bike. I can't control that my bike never arrived. And. But what I control is, like, I'm here. How do I make the best best of this situation? And that's another one of my favorite sayings. Make the best of the situation that you give it.

Brilliant. I think it's a brilliant business lesson in that as well, in the sense that you had the confidence to delegate that problem to your team, and you were like, no, this is my user strategic coach term. This is my unique ability racing. Your unique ability is dealing with the fact that I haven't got a bike at the moment. And you're going to find that bike.

Oh, yeah, like, rather quickly. Even the day before Iron man, the mechanic was walking my bike back and somehow managed to crack my wheel. And I'm like, okay, I'm sure somebody will give me a wheel. And I'm like, well, as long as I can, like, peel off the nice pink stickers and peel them on the new wheel, I'll be happy. So I gave me something to focus on as well, besides the race. I'm like, well, I got to peel these stickers off and put them on the new wheel.

Was matching kit a particular priority of yours by any chance?

Come on.

I was like, the first person who did the matchy matchy.

Did that help?

Now? Now it's like a given. It's like I did that, like, way, way, way before anyone else.

Excellent, Excellent. And you talked about visualization briefly, but how does that manifest itself in reality? Do you sort of sit there the day before a race? Kind of. And if you got a particular amount of time that you focus on or in a particular part of the. The race that you focus on, how. Tell us about how that works.

Well, I did dream when I got second in Kona the night before I did dream I got second, and I'm like, damn it, why didn't I dream? I wonder. So you know, dreams do come true, apparently. No, I always, like, when I'm leading up to a race, like, even a little local race, I still get nervous. Like, even to this day, I get nervous. So I try to, like, not think too much before the race about, like, the process of it, because I feel like going through my. My pre race routine sort of, like, helps with that. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why we do a warm up, right? Gives us purpose and something to do, not only to warm up the body, but it's like, okay, I know so many minutes before this race, I need to do this, this, and this. So having that, like, race plan, that's one of the reasons why it's important. And I always, like, like, literally just before the gun's gonna go off, like five minutes before the scheduled time, I literally will, like, close my eyes, take a big deep breath, and just visualize exactly what I want to do. And I think sometimes that's important for people, like during the lead up to an event is take five or ten minutes just to close your eyes, take a big deep breath, and really visualize what you want to do. And it's funny because NBC did this awesome interview before the Olympics, and part of that was like, they wanted me to visualize what the race was going to feel. And if you actually put that voiceover to actually what happened on the day, it's pretty amazing how accurate that was. So, yeah, so, yeah, I was lucky enough that they actually somehow managed to realize that that was an important process that an athlete went through. And we have video of me talking about the process, and we matched it with the. With the actual race footage. And it's pretty amazing because, like, everything that I was visualizing is exactly what was happening.

Wow. There is. There is something quite amazing about affirmations. And as tacky as they can sound, they actually seem to work really well. And I've heard so many people say the same thing. Claire, you're gonna make.

Well, I was. I was just thinking about, you know, the visualization that you might have at the start line, but also pre race about kind of visualizing anything from, like, transition and getting things ready. So I guess preparing your mind a little bit. Is there anything else in terms of, you know, big sort of key races for people or even, you know, smaller kind of local races? Are there any sort of top tips that you have to kind of help people kind of quieten down and prepare themselves? So whether that's kind of race morning or whether it's maybe in A few days sort of leading up to it. What kind of things would you, would you kind of tell somebody who's like maybe an athlete that races the whole time or maybe somebody new to the sport?

You know, that race plan is so important. Like knowing what time you're going to get up, knowing what time you're going to have breakfast, knowing what time you're going to get to the race, knowing what time you're going to do a warm up. Because a lot of people don't do warm ups before races. Triathlons, it's like they'll do warm up in training and then before a race it's like they're all sitting around just like getting nervous. So you know, it's important to like do a little bit of a warm up even though we are going to be swimming first. It's like as I said, you know, it gives you purpose and something to do so you're not just hanging around. And then. So that's always my recommendation. You know, just spend like a couple of minutes and it doesn't have to be this big long book. It can be like super short. Like this is what's going to happen. This is where I need to be. So then you don't, you're not really thinking about and rushing around, doing other things and panicking because you know, at this time I need to be here. By this time I need to be putting my wetsuit on. By this time I need to, to be at the start. So I think like that's my best advice to give to anyone is like have a race plan so you know exactly where you need to be.

That's good. Yeah, good, good advice I think in terms of sort of getting, getting ready and preparing your, your mind and your body for the day. So that's.

Yeah, good because you know, exactly that visualization again, because you've got to go, okay, this is what I need because like how many times we've been to a race and we've forgotten something? I mean I've been to races where I've forgotten something and I, and I usually like packed and I always used to be the athlete on the circuit that had like extra race wheels, had a bike trainer, had extra nutrition. If anyone needed anything, they would, they would come to me. But you know, yeah, being prepared is like important.

Including forgetting your race, your running shoes. I think.

Yes. Yeah, well, I didn't forget my race shoes. So at the Olympics like I sponsored by Reebok and we, they, they always like did like a nice new pair of shoes for all my races. And they were the same model, the same ones I'd been running in. And I put them on race morning at the race and I'm like, oh my goodness, they're half a size too small. Oh gosh. Even though they said they were the same size. So lucky for my twin sister, I had another pair at the house in my hometown. She like, basically handed me over my race shoes a few minutes before the start of the race.

Well, clearly, again, it comes back to having a good team around you, doesn't it?

Exactly. See, you get my point. It's like, like I'm like, I was still going to run in those shoes even if they might have been half a size small. But like any. So if they. I, I already had prepared myself that. Because that's the other thing I'm saying. I always say when you're preparing for a race, prefer when you like looking at a race, like, think about the worst possible things that can happen or the worst possible weather. And if it is like that, you're like, yeah, I can handle this. And if it's not, you're like, woohoo.

Managing your own expectations.

Good advice.

You mentioned about, you mentioned earlier on about failure and embracing failure. Can you give us an example of some of a time that you've failed and how you've learned from it?

Well, here's a good example. How somebody else thought I failed as well. So after the Olympics, we had like a big debrief and I don't know if you guys know who Laurie Lawrence is, but he's a big Australian swim coach and, and he came in to do a big pep talk and he's like, we're at dinner a couple of days after the Olympics and he's like, even you, McKeely, feel like you failed. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, dude. This isn't a swim race where you swim down a black line and everything's the same. This is triathlon. We got a swim, bike and run. So I just was like astounded that he thought that I had failed when I was like, are you kidding me? To win a silver medal, do I wish I won the gold? You know, maybe a tiny bit, but that wasn't my destiny. I've really embraced. Every single race I've done is like, well, I can't change the result, you know, and controls. Yeah. And with the Olympics, it's like, you know what? Maybe I never would have done Ironman, you know, it's like, you know, it's like I always felt that there was a reason why that you had that result. So yeah, that to me was like somebody else is thinking that I failed and I'm like, screw you. But then, you know, when, when I have failed myself, it's like, like when I didn't make the Olympic team, that definitely felt like a, a failure. And there was definitely reasons why. And you know, I turned it around by like, okay, what do I want to achieve out of this sport? Do I still love this sport? Am I still passionate about it? Like, what do I want to do? And you know, that's, I think the part of like turning around that, that negative experience or that result that you didn't get is like taking a step back and well, what is it that you really want to achieve? What is it that really drives you? Where is that passion coming from? And you know, we all get burned out at a certain point and it's like, that's when I think the, the point is, it's like, because, you know, you see so many professionals who don't continue with sport because I can only totally understand that because you get burnt out and there's so much pressure. And then like, even to this day, I did like a five mile turkey trot for Thanksgiving here in the US and this one guy comes across the finish line and he's like, mckeely, all I wanted to do was beat you today because you beat me last year. And I'm like, dude, I've only, I'm thinking to myself, I, well, dude, I've only been back running like two and a half weeks. I'm pretty happy I'm even here. But you know what I mean, it's like, you know, when you're a professional, everyone like is always like wants to beat you. I mean, all the athletes I train want to beat me. I line up for a race. Like every single athlete wants to beat me. But it's like, you know, it's like that's where you have to go. You know what, the reason I do this isn't always about winning, you know, because not everyone wins. Like, if the only reason why we did sport is to win, there'd only ever be one person lined up because there's only if you look at, in terms of winning that way. So I think that's in itself is a big lesson because I mean, I, I mean not to say I, I want to win every single race I line up for and I'm going to try as hard as I can, but doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it doesn't mean I'm going to stop. It's like, well, okay, am I reaching the ability and putting in the effort to make sure I am getting the return on the investment, so to speak. Because if you're not putting the effort in and you don't get the result, that's a given. But you put the effort in and you get the result. I mean, that's success. But then you can put the effort in and not get the result that you want. So what is it? Was it the expectation was inappropriate or was it something else that got in the way of achieving what you need to achieve?

Yeah, brilliant.

What kind of. Oh, sorry. Kind of leading on from that. I was just thinking about because you, you ride, don't you? So you've got horses and you compete as well. Yeah. So obviously we've just been talking about kind of, you know, the consistency and putting in what you, what you're going to get out and things. Obviously when you're riding, you've got, you've got, you've got that partnership, haven't you? So you can put in everything you like and that horse on the day might do something totally different and totally unexpected. So I guess kind of a two part question here, one sort of, how do you deal with that as an athlete and kind of your experience of being an athlete and dealing with something that essentially is uncontrollable to a certain degree, but, but also seeing kind of a horse as an athlete, because I always see them as athletes and actually how very sensible they are. So I don't know how you want to answer that question, but maybe starting with the first part in terms of, you know, that, that relationship and you know, how you, how you can control things or not, as the case may be.

Well, I think that's a really, really good question because as a triathlete it's very individual. Right. Although like I talked a lot about my team, you know, when you, when you're on the start line, you know, it's about you. You have to make all the decisions out there. You know, your coach could be screaming at you, blah, blah, blah, but like it's up to you to figure it out. So coming from, I grew up horse riding, so working with that partnership and then going to triathlon where you really are only relying on yourself, right? And then with the horse, you know, they have their own brain, they have their own attitude, they are sometimes willing to work, they're sometimes not willing to work. So that's where you find that I find the challenge because it's like you've now got to work with somebody else. So for me, it teaches me a lot about being patient. Like, I have to be patient. It's like you sort of got to like, be on the same page, on the same wavelength, but, like, it's that partnership that you create. And it's sort of like that same partnership and relationship that I created with triathlon and swim, bike and running, because there is a relationship that happens with those three sports. So. So for me, it's like, I love the challenge of being able to progress from a. I like, I love riding young horses and then progressing them up. And right now I have a young horse and. And my trainer won't let me ride right now because he's afraid that I'm going to fall off. And I'm like, dude, I don't want to fall off. I'm too old to fall off. And then I'll really hurt my collarbone. But yeah, it's so different because, you know, sometimes they're not on the same page as what you on, so you've got to figure it out. So it's that I think what I really like is like that mental process rather than the physical process because I'm so used to turning the muscle on, if that makes sense. When you ride a horse, you've got to turn the muscle off. And in. In saying that, what I mean is like, you. You have to like, you can't muscle the horse around where I can sort of probably muscle the swim, bike and run around. It's like a horse is too big to muscle around. It's that communication, learning, that partnership and how little you use a lot of core and, and the skills you need are very, very small cues that you give the horse. Like, especially when they get more and more trained, those cues get smaller and smaller. And it basically, it comes down to you think it. They do it. And that's where I think that's what drives me in that respect, is the respect that you have for such a large animal that wants to do what you want to do when you tell them.

Brilliant.

That's interesting.

With regards to. To bring it back to. To triathlon. There's. There's a hot topic going on in the triathlon world at the moment around the Ironman World Championships in Kona. We were both in Kona. I wasn't racing, Claire was. And obviously next year we now know that the guys aren't going to be in Kona. The ladies Are obviously there's rumors that the guys are going to be in Nice, but we don't know whether that's happening or not. But having won on the Big island, what do you think about the changes that are being proposed by Iron Man?

So this is what I personally feel it's like I feel our sport needs to grow more. I think we're obviously growing at such a rate right now. There's so many races around the world, there's so many people who are getting into triathlon. We sort of had a lull and now it's growing again and we need a bigger venue and if we want women to participate and get to Kona because, you know, it's like for me as an athlete, you know, the pinnacle is getting to the world championships. You know, it doesn't matter what you sport, you're in that pinnacle is getting to the world championship. And I've had athletes that I've coached that have finished second and not got a Kona slide. So I was so excited when they had that they decided to put more women's slots so that more women to qualify. And then so excited this year when the women were showcased on one day and the men were showcased on another day. You know, I think that's a big leap forward for our sport because again, the more recognition that we can get, the more people we can get in the sport, the more the sport's going to grow. And the bottom line is everyone has to make money some way. Somehow the professionals need to make more money. Of course, it's costly to put on races, expensive. And there is a profit margin that needs to be made. It's like, and you know, part of that is, I think, the growth of the sport. And it's unfortunate that the residents of Kona felt that, you know, there was too much pressure to have two races on two different days. But if we want the sport to grow, we need two different days or you need like a larger venue. And I think that's the one thing that really triathlon has struggled with. How many people can we actually fit on a course? That's always been the hardest question. And you know, I admired Ironman for doing a two day event and showcasing each gender and getting more people involved because that's going to make the sport better for everyone. You know, it's going to bring in more participation, more sponsors, more opportunities and a chance for the professionals to make some more money as well. As well as, you know, the people who are trying to make business out of triathlon, you know, all those clothing companies, the bike companies, the wheel companies, the nutrition companies, you know, everyone has a foot in the door of, of trying to make a living. So you know, having one in Kona, there's something special about Kona. Like I've raced other Ironmans but there is something about the spirit of Kona, the atmosphere and do I want to events in Kona I'm like yes, please, you know, if we can get more people participating. But unfortunately that's not so I think, you know, Ironman really, you know, thought well, what can we do to keep increasing participation in the sport? And you know, for them it was having a race in Hawaii and a race somewhere else. So there's always going to be disagreement and people are going to say but I want triathlon to be the way it was. Look, the sport isn't the way it was. There's so much that has changed and we have to keep progressing and it's a shame that it can't all happen in the place where Ironman started. But I think it's good that people are going to get an opportunity to still race a world championship because a world championship is a world championship and yes, the venue in Hawaii made it very, very special and hopefully it can be worked out and they can go back to a two day so that the people who should get to Kona get to Kona because as I said, I've had athletes that have finished second and have not got to Kona. So you know, from that perspective I think it's a win. From the perspective of the tradition, not so much of a win. But our sport is growing and what else can we do? What other solution can we come up with like making the rate smaller? I don't think is, is in the best interest of anyone.

I think it's, it's been a really difficult and divisive conversation, hasn't it? I think, you know, the other thing is that I mean you're based in the US so a quick hop over to Kona is not very expensive for you if you're coming from.

It.

It can be quite an expensive and that in itself it makes it prohibitively expensive for some athletes. So. So again it kind of balances that book a little bit, doesn't it?

But yeah, I mean that's the thing. Having a race in Europe, having a race in in like the U.S. and you know that's going to have an impact on US companies as well and but then it's going to be also help European companies maybe a little bit more. So there's give and take, whichever way. For me, the bottom line is the more people we can get involved in triathlon, the better it is.

Yeah.

Because our sport is growing, it needs to grow and we want to continue that growth and how do we continue it? And part of that process is, you know, being able to put more people on courses.

Brilliant. And, and with regards to the growth and innovation in our sport, which it's, it's renowned for doing, you use the Tridot platform for your coaching, I think, as well as training peaks. I think you, I think you said you use both for different athletes. How do you think bringing Tridot, which we talked a bit about with Mark Allen when he was on the podcast, but for those people that haven't listened to that episode, it's about bringing artificial intelligence into the training plan construction. How do you think that allows you to enhance the, if you do enhance the training experience that you're athletes get?

Well, you know what I love about the artificial intelligence driven training is it can really manipulate the data a lot quicker than I can physically process it. That's, that's, I think the big thing, right. Like you put the data in, it'll analyze it and it'll update and change so quickly and constantly. So the, every time you're throwing something at it and you know, I think that's, it's just a little bit ahead of the process of a human being for sure. I mean that's, that's the most important part of it. And I think in terms of individualizing it, yes, it does individualize it to a point. But it doesn't know if you're sick, if you're injured, or if, you know, you got a hectic day or no sleep or something stress related happened in your life and you need to change. And that's where a coach, you know, is really important part of the process as well, you know, because they have the knowledge to be able to go in and see what needs to be changed in respect to that component where the data is just saying what the data is saying, it's not telling you some of the other pieces that happen. So I think it's a good combination of, okay, that's what the data is saying. But as a coach, what can I bring in to go? Okay, well this is where I think it should be. This is where it should be. And just making that nice partnership because, you know, there are times when, you know, you've got to manipulate the data because could be, you know, lack of time, you're in an ideal world. I mean, because basically the artificial intelligence is an, in an ideal world and it doesn't take into account some other stuff and, you know, all that experience and knowledge and sometimes, you know, and that's what I also like about Tri Dot. They're always listening and asking, how can we make the experience better? But let's make sure that what you're telling us is actually making the athlete better as well. And I think that's the big difference between like Tridot and a lot of other platforms. It's like, yes, it is artificial intelligence, but there's a lot of research behind it and every workout has to have a purpose. And you know, as I, as I, as we talked about earlier, for me, I love it because it sort of confirms my training because it's very similar to my training philosophy and style. Style. So I'm like, I've been trying to tell you you need to go aerobic for how long? Because I think that's the biggest problem between an age grouper and an elite athlete. Like when we go easy, we go easy. We're an age group athlete. Sometimes they're easy and they're hard. Is like the gap is so small and it, so for me, it's like backing up a lot of what I already tell my athletes. So that's what I like about it as well. I'm like, look, even the artificial intelligence is telling you the same thing that I've been telling you for so long. So it's a nice backup. But yeah, it's like just everything that Tri does, the pool school, that functional strength component that they also include in the programming, it's, it's very similar to how I coach. So it's a good partnership for sure. And then of course, you know, Racer X, it's another part of Tri Dot where, you know, you're inputting all your races and that's how the data is driven as well with all the threshold history. But what I like about Racer X, you know, you can down, if they have your, your race on their profile, you can download the bike course and it's going to tell you exactly what power you need to ride for the uphills, the downhills and the flats. And it's pretty accurate in, in like, you know, if you're doing an Ironman, this is what your swim time is going to be, this is what your bike time's going to be, and this is what your run time is going to be. It's, it's pretty good at, like, it's sort of like the truth serum. It's like, you know what an athlete says, but I want to do this. I'm like, but this is what the data is telling us. So no, I think like there's so many good things about it.

Brilliant.

Yeah.

I think I just, I find it really fascinating. I think it's a subject that is, or a tool that is only going get stronger and stronger, isn't it?

Yeah. And it's funny because I get a lot of athletes. But are you, but are you putting in the workouts? Like who's putting in the workouts? I'm like, look, it's a combination because if it's doing something similar to what I would have you doing, it's like a threshold workout is a threshold workout. An aerobic workout is an aerobic workout. It's like, you know, it's, it's just as I said, that ability to be able to modify it based when you know, you, you've had that conversation with that athlete or something's come up. I mean that's where it's, it's a two way street. It's not just follow this and do this. It's like, well, how does it really fit in into the real world?

But you're getting the technology to do the grunt work and then you're doing the kind of, the tweaking and the kind of hand holding and all that sort of stuff. So I think I can really see the advantage of it. Now we ask everybody that comes on this podcast for a book recommendation. So, so are there any books that you found really inspired you or you find yourself recommending to your athletes? It doesn't have to be triathlon related, but what comes to mind.

Well, I'm a big audio biography person, so one of my favorite ones is called Free Reign R E I N and it's an autobiography by Gillian Rolton who is a three day eventer in Australia. Uh, she's now passed, but just again, just love the grit of starting somewhere and then being successful and then dealing with adversity. Like she broke her collarbone falling off one of the horses I think in the Barcelona Olympics, but she still had to get up and finish the event, otherwise the Australian team wasn't going to get a medal. So it's a really good one. The Kathy. You mentioned, Kathy Freeman earlier, she has a really good autobiography as well.

Yeah, I've not seen, I've not seen that she's got a book out as an autobiography out. So actually that's, that's. And I suspect that Claire is Going to be adding free reign to her reading list as well because that's probably more up her street than mine. Although that sounds fantastic. It does, thank you. And we always ask our previous guest to ask our next guest a question without knowing who that guest is going to be. So I think, Claire, you've got the question from Julian Dean, who was a seven times Tour de France cyclist.

Yeah, I didn't know what it was, but I do now. So along your journey, who, who have you come across that's inspired you the most?

Well, I have to say my mom because my parents got divorced very, very early. So having to bring up four girls, definitely, she definitely was somebody who spied me. She sort of like was that belief, like hard work will get you somewhere. My high school run coach, he always used to say, will you remember me when you're famous? And I always used to giggle and laugh at him. And then one of my heroes growing up was a car racer called Peter Brock. And I actually got to meet him at the Olympics and my twin sister totally embarrassed me and told him that I was in love with him. And I'm like, man, he's going to think I'm a stalker and he's never going to come and talk to me ever again. Of course, Paul and Ub Fraser, eight time Ironman champion. Like, just totally respect for her and you know, we've had a couple of sprint finishes in, in short course races over the years and you know, really, she was the one that. And the reason why I won in Hawaii.

Brilliant. Well, on that note, this has been fantastic. There's been so much great advice in there for, for listeners, for us as athletes. So Michele, it's been absolutely brilliant to chat to you. Thank you so much for, for podcast and look, you know, wish, wish all of your athletes great success in the future.

Thank you so much and great chatting with you guys.

So what did you make of the interview with McKeely?

It's amazing. I mean her, her history of racing and not just like racing one kind of length or I say discipline, but one, you know, one certain type of race actually being able to race and succeed and excel across all those different race distances, it's just amazing. And, and also guiding as well.

Yeah, it is incredibly impressive that she adapted to the long course so quickly and you know, came second in Kona in her second ever long course and one Kona and a fourth ever long course. I mean that is pretty impressive, isn't it?

Absolutely.

But I also think it, I also think it was really impressive how, okay, she didn't win the gold in, in her home Olympics, but actually the pressure that was on for that, I thought it was a. Impressive that how well she did, but also impressive how she saw that as a success despite the fact that the coach said that actually she should. She could be disappointed with that.

Yeah, I think that's really difficult, isn't it, when you've got, you know, for these athletes having that on their back that they, they are kind of tipped to be number one or gold medalist and then you get a silver and yeah, the way that she talked about it was actually, that was a really great success for her and she, and she went on to win gold when she was guiding as well, didn't she?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which she said was almost more special, I think, wasn't it helping somebody else achieve that?

Yeah, absolutely. And also I realized a bit when she was talking about, you know, and we've heard this quite a lot, haven't we, in terms of like controlling the controllables. And I can't remember or recall whether it was at, at the Olympics or it might have been another race where she didn't have a bike.

Yeah, no, that wasn't the Olympics. That was, that was another race. The Olympics was not having the shoes. Twin sister having to borrow twin sisters shoes. Um, but yeah, absolutely controlling the control, definitely. And I think she gave some really good examples of. I mean, I can't imagine, you know, if that was my local triathlon. Getting into the swim not knowing whether my bike was going to be in transition when I came out would stress me the hell out. So for that to be a proper significant race and still actually go on. And I think she won that from memory. So that, that I thought is. Was really, really, really impressive. And I really liked her talking about the chimp brain and quietening the chimp brain. I think that's, that's really powerful. We hit. We've also heard that from quite a few people.

Yeah, I think it's really good when you hear it from a number of different kind of either, you know, professional athletes or athletes that have now retired that, you know that actually it's interesting, isn't it, because they, they find a way to control their thinking and each one of them has got a slightly different way of doing it or calls it something slightly different, but essentially it's the same, the same thing, isn't it?

It is, it's quieting that mind. And in fact, I remember Mark Allen talking about it and you know, he was obviously he as he got older, he became faster and faster at kind of switching back to it. But I started listening to the book that he, him and Br Sean which I think from memory is Fit Body, Fit Mind, Fit Soul, Fit Mind or something like that. One of those. I've only just started listening to it, but it already has got me hooked on a few things like just kind of being able to switch off the mind. And he talks a bit about his win in the Iron War, 1989 and how he switched off his, his mind there. And I, I think it's yeah, that ability to just kind of quiet in the mind and, and actually his book talks about quietening the mind but focusing on nature. And in fact there's actually a really, I really love this bit. In the end of the first chapter there's a 15 question quiz on your Fit Soul quiz and it's basically says go, go back to it regularly. And it will just be, you know, are, you know, are you exercising every day? And kind of lots of different things that you would expect to be in there. But then two that were a real curveball for me were are you out in nature every day and you basically score every day, sometimes not very often and then how often, how many times a week do you see the sunrise or sunset? I was like, interesting. I like, I like the fact that it's reminding you that that's because it is. There is something very enriching around that. So anyway, that was a slight diversion down back onto Mark, but I think Mark and me are very much in tune with what they talked about as coaches.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Yeah.

No, I, I just, I just think kind of, you know, her way that she sort of approached her racing as well and being able, as I said, you know, being able to adapt that mind and that thinking and those strategies that she had to different race distances. You know, it's not just thinking about at the Olympics going out there and being the fastest person out there. You know, when she went and raced Kona, it was going to be a much longer race and to be able to think differently and adapt is, Is, you know, is incredible.

And I, I'm.

She, she talked about her mum, didn't she, being the most influential.

Yeah.

Person in her life as well. And I thought that was interesting. And you know, you wonder whether that makes thanks for her being or feeding into kind of the strengths that she has as well in terms of it's taken us sort of throughout her career.

Yeah, yeah. I mean she's, she's clearly a very strong and Talented athlete, but also clearly very good on the mindset stuff which, which actually. So then that tied into that conversation we had around Tridot and using artificial intelligence for your coaching because actually you can really see with somebody like McKeely, like having her as your coach is not about her putting the right workout in training peaks, is it? Or in whatever platform you're using. It's much more about the psychology and the guidance and the getting the best out of you as an athlete. That's. That to me is what she did, you know, she talked about that was really interesting and you can see that's where she would add so much value as a coach. So actually having artificial intelligence build the training plan so that she can spend more time kind of on the psychology of the athlete. I thought that that seemed to play really well to her strengths.

No, absolutely. And it would be interesting to see kind of, you know, as you've talked about before in terms of like where this kind of goes in terms of, you know, artificial, artificial intelligence and you know, with all the metrics and data that we collect and what we, what we can then do with that as well.

Well, I've been chatting to Jeff, who is the founder of Tridot recently and I, I just think it's absolutely mind blowing. So I, I'm going to trial, using it alongside training peaks to see how it works for me and, but still carry on with my coach. So that exact. So my coach will. Can do exactly what Michele's doing, but the bits that just blow me away are so the genome sequencing. So once you've got your genome sequenced, it will, you can upload that and that will then know. Right. Okay. Your strength and recovery is going to be affected by these particular genes and it can adapt the training based on that. It'll adapt the tr. You know, the other thing that was amazing is they've got race. Race execution or Racer X is that Race X is. Which is what McKeely talked about. And, but so she talked about it only briefly around it, giving you the forecast of.

Power curves reach each course.

Yeah, exactly. But that's it. It's every. You can upload it so that for every part of the course you know what your target power is. And this whole thing is calculated in seconds. And then what you can do is you say, well actually if I, if I want to push harder on the bike and I up my power by let's say an average of 5 watts across the race, what how does that impact my expected run time and is that for me as an athlete, is that a gain because I've buried myself on the bike but I've actually lost more on the run or.

Yeah.

Or is it, you know, it's just incredible what it can do.

So it'd be interesting to watch this space as in all these new technologies that are out there as well.

Yeah, well, I, I think that's it. I think, I think that the key technologies for me are artificial intelligence and robotics and the longevity space, but also 3D printing. I think if there's any business out there that you've kind of got lots of, I, I just think there's so much potential there. So that's why I'm looking out for, for businesses where I think that there is a, a real opportunity with things like AI totally transforming it and I can see Tridot being, being that. But so it be interesting to learn more.

Absolutely. Well, you need to hear how it goes.

Well, I shall let, I shall let you know and yeah, it will be, well, will also be interesting is running alongside what my coach would have given me and then seeing whether that actually, you know, seeing how they compare. So I'll, I'll keep you in the loop on that.

Yeah, thank you.

But anyway, well, I'm going to wish you good training in the lead up to your next race, which when this goes out shouldn't be more than a couple of months away, I think.

And all for you.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It'll all start to feel a little bit real by then.

Yeah. But new year, new season will be exciting.

It will be, it will be. And I'm, I'm really excited about racing in South Africa. I think it's going to be really cool. Good. That's a bucket list race for me. So I know you've already done it, but it will be. Yeah, that'd be really good. So yeah, good luck with your training and for everybody else, keep on training. This podcast was sponsored by 33 fuel. So rethink your sports nutrition with 33 fuel award winning natural sports nutrition for your performance, health and a fitter Future. It's the 33 Fuel Fuel. Get yours at 33fuel.com and if you use the discount code Tribeathlon or the link in the show notes, you'll get a discount at the checkout. If you enjoyed this podcast, please do review it and share it because it helps other people find what we think is really valuable learning lessons from amazing athletes. So please do that. You can also find the whole back catalogue@tribathlon.com and you can also find out about the Tribeathlon app, which helps people find events, find people to train with and enjoy their events through their tribe. So check out tribathlon.com.

Sam.