Ironman with the Halo with Tim Don

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding. And I'm laura siddall and this is the tribathlon podcast.

So when they. When they screwed these in, I was only under a local anesthetic, like a dentist. And it was funny. It took about two hours to put it on, which I thought was a long time. And the guys goes, that was like a record. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, normally we put the people to sleep. I'm like, why didn't you tell me that? Give me the option. And they were like, well, you just sat there and said, let's do it. So we looked at each other and said, okay, we'll do it.

That was Tim Don, and this episode is Iron man with the Halo. Hi, Sid, how are you doing?

I'm very well, Charlie, how are you? How is the world? How's the world in the UK now that the. There has been the big unrevealing of the lockdown or exit of lockdown.

Maybe it's the potential unveiling. They've done a very good job of saying, no sooner than this will we. Will we open the pools or no sooner than this will we open the pub? I have seen a countdown clock already produced as to when we can go and drink in the pub. So I think what it's done is it's created some more optimism. Yeah, I think a combination of that and the weather getting better. You know, the snow was quite a nice novelty for a couple of days, but then it was really a pain in the backside.

Heck, you guys, you guys need some optimism. I really feel you guys are getting smashed at the moment with everything. With everything. Covid.

It was, you know, I think there was a lot of people really struggling in January from a kind of psychological point of view because they'd come into the new year going, right, it's going to be. Going to be all fine again. It's a new year. And then it was like on the 4th of January, the rug was whipped from under them and no welcome back to the misery. And the weather was pretty dark and everything else, whereas. So on Saturday, I went out for a bike ride on my own, but stopped for a coffee and a bacon sandwich at our Cafe Von 2, which is absolutely brilliant. Funnily enough, by complete coincidence, I bumped into Will Clark there, who obviously, the day before we'd released his podcast and I'd only met him on Zoom. So I had a quick chat with Will outside at our local cycling cafe. But, yeah, he was like, out cycling. So I did 70 miles sun was shining. We then now had this kind of unveiling of the lockdown gradually. So swimming pools will be open from the 12th of April.

So that's.

Yeah, I think I'm pretty optimistic that racing will happen from. Well, my first race is mid May and I would imagine that that will happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that one. So, yeah, I think the UK is feeling a bit more optimistic.

Does the. I think you're right. I mean, I think the. I think still, and I know loads of people have talked about this and it's probably a. You've mentioned it's been talked about on podcasts. Anyway, just the. I think the mental effect is so big that has not really been understood or appreciated for everyone, not just. Not just the UK, but. So with the. With the pools opening on the 12th of April, will the pools be open before your endless pool arrives or does the endless pool arrive first?

Well, if the company that I'm buying it through and it isn't an endless pool, actually, it's a master spa.

I must get that.

Yes, you must get. Must get the name right. Yeah.

But if they deliver it, when they've told me they're going to deliver it, it will be here before the swimming pools open.

So I should.

I'm hoping to get it mid March, but definitely by the end of March is what I'm. What I may be aiming for. So, yeah, I might have had about three swims in it before the pools open. But actually our most local pool I really don't like. It's really tired and it's. Last time I swam in there, I had a rash all over my back for a while. I won't say which one that is, but it's not. I don't like swimming there. We then got another pool that's a bit further away, which is a really great pool, but it's owned by the public school in the town and I can't see them letting us in to that until the earliest the summer holidays. So that's kind of too late for me. There's another one that's further away again, but it's a bit of a hassle. So I'm really excited about my master spa pool and. Yeah, but I was going to pick your brains on this.

It's proving to be.

A technological nightmare again in that I'm trying to work out how I can accurately record my.

TSS score for training peaks.

And so I've worked out that I need an external heart rate monitor to link to my watch because My Garmin doesn't record heart rate when you swim, but all of the plumbing heart rate monitors I've got don't fit that mold in terms of they're good for swimming. So I was kind of looking at different heart rate monitors. Do you tend to record your heart rate? Do you keep a track of your heart rate with swimming or not bother?

No, not at all. I don't take any. I'm one of those people that. I really hate people that wear watches when they swim. I'm like, just read the clock and swim. And if I appreciate. You don't always have a clock either. I did a little like a couple of years ago, I did wear a heart rate monitor because we're doing a little bit of testing just to see where my heart rate was elevating to in a swim that I then would get onto the bike kind of thing. Um, but I don't even, I don't even have my heart. I have my heart rate strap on during a race, but I'm not recording. I don't start recording data till I'm on the, on the bike. Um, so, yeah, I don't. But when I have done, I've used, yeah, just a Garmin wristwatch, but with the heart rate strap round, round, obviously your chest and it obviously doesn't do real time heart rate, but you can, as long as you connected it downloads the data afterwards and then you can upload it obviously into Garmin and connect to training pigs that way. So, yeah, that's kind of all I really would do when we used to do it. Now all my swim data just is splits and pacing and time and that sort of thing.

And you've got a whoop band, haven't you? Do you, does that, does that work like a heart rate monitor?

Yeah. So I mean I do wear. So my whoop. I do wear the whoop band during the swim. And so I do get in my whoop app a training session that says swimming. And I think now you can connect whoop to two training peaks. I think someone said the other day, I think you can now, but I.

Think you can connect it to a Garmin now.

Yeah. So again, yeah, I mean I. But I don't. Yeah, so I wear. I have my whoop on when I swim. It records an activity which I guess gives me a strain score in whoop. But I don't connect it into training peaks or anything like that.

Right.

Because I guess the difference is if you're in a. The master spa, is that you've got no You've got no distance of pace and distance kind of thing.

And that's, that's the problem. So I think some of them, some of the more expensive swim spas and endless pools and the like will give you a TSS score because you can tell, you can tell it what the pace is. But for, for those that aren't supported, that don't link up to either form goggles with the pacing then and essentially it's that flow rate. The only other way they can do it is through heart rate. So that's the only way. And I'm kind of, I'm kind of of mixed opinions and I go back to that when I was doing that ultra run, getting cross about the technology, not, you know, part of me thinks just forget about it and swim. And then part of me also thinks, do I just. Then, you know, psychologically, am I just going to ease off because there's no accountability to how hard I'm swimming.

Yeah. But I would say probably even once you get it, are you going to use that for every swim? Like, I mean, I heard you talk about more open water swimming with Tim Don to be really up later. I mean, will you use it for all your sessions or will you use it for a couple of sessions a week and then the rest will be in a pool when that opens?

Well, I would be. So I, I would probably try and use it all the time. However, that's one of the reasons why I'm not so keen on these chest. I've seen some people swim with the chest strap but on a bloke that can look like they're wearing a bikini top which, yeah, is awkward. So I won't be doing that.

But I think, yeah, mind numbing. I'm warning you to swim. It's like swimming in a master spot. Like you've got your trainer on the bike and you've got your treadmill which you can kind of just about get away with because we've got the likes of Zwift and things like that. And I'm now getting used to like running on a treadmill and quite enjoying it, but swimming in the same spot, going nowhere for like a full session. I would definitely recommend getting waterproof headphones.

Yes.

You can listen to music.

Yeah, they arrived yesterday.

Yes, There we go. I would definitely, definitely that would be a purchase that I would say if anyone's thinking of getting Master Spa or Endless Pool or anything like that, do get yourself waterproof headphones because otherwise you will go crazy. Yeah, okay. I mean it's a Bit different. If you're kind of going to use it probably as more of like for every session. You probably do want some form of regulating knowing what pace you're going and how hard you're working. The only thing is, again, though, with like, the heart rate, a lot of it, a lot of it is, again, it's not real time. So it's. You're not going to be able to see it, I don't think, as you.

The only way you can see it real time is with form goggles, I think.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that would, would. But I'm not bothered about seeing the heart rate real time. I just need it to show me afterwards. Look, you eased off there. You need to work harder. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. Interestingly, the headphones, that's been another source of my research in the last week.

Yeah.

What I didn't realize is that. So I normally would listen to books or podcasts, but that becomes really difficult in the pool because Bluetooth doesn't. Doesn't transmit with water.

No. So, yeah, the headphones I've used, you've had to. I've worn aftershocks in when I'm swimming. But again, you have to download the music or whatever you want to listen to previous. Prior to then getting in the water to swim. So you can't. Yeah. Can't connect. Yeah.

So it's been a minefield. And then like this, you get all of these different tech things. And I was trying to get on this on the turbo this morning, and then one heart rate monitor was flat, the iPad was flat. I couldn't get the other iPad. It's just. I think the tech is a good thing, but it does drive me slightly crazy as well.

Yeah. It's very easy for all of us, I think, to get shackled somewhat sometimes by the tech, but at the same time, in a world where, you know, like, you can't go out and ride either because it's winter or it's locked down and the only options are sitting on the trainer or on the treadmill, then we're kind of reliant on it and the tech is then good, because that's our connection to the community and that's our connection to the triathlon community or to our friends and family and makes us feel a little bit like we're not isolated on our own in current times. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's been.

It's been a saving grace for us, hasn't it? Whether it be Zoom or whether it be Zwift. I think it's. It's been amazing and I think, you know, I think that's. I know we've said it before, but that's one of the reasons why people in the triathlon world have probably fared better than many others through this lockdown. Because not only they've had that ability to go out and cycle or run or maybe not so much swimming, but some swimming at times, but they've also had that ability through things like Zwift, to be able to connect. We're doing these time trial races on Zwift on a Thursday night and you know, we've got the Zoom link going as well. We're all chatting away and it's. Yeah, it's brilliant. I've really enjoyed, actually.

Yeah, no, it's been good. I think there's been some, some where the huge benefits. I think there's been some, some benefits that we've needed to grasp on to get through the past year, probably.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

So. So what's been going on in the, in the racing world? Have you any. Well, firstly, you've moved. Actually, hang on, let's take. You're now in Boulder, aren't you?

I am, yeah.

I saw from Instagram you've been skiing. So tell us about that.

Yeah, so I got. So we are camp finished in Arizona. Where are we now? Like last week. And then I came up to Boulder for a couple of weeks. So my coach, Julie Dibbons is based in Boulder and so it kind of made sense to come up here for a few more weeks before then heading to Miami, which was the plan. So, yeah, come up to Boulder, altitude, always good snow. There's a fair bit of snow on the ground, which is a bit of a shock having been to. Been in Arizona the last few weeks, which is sort of almost. Well, yeah, pretty much short sleeves and shorts for riding and things like that. Definitely not. And then, yeah, I kind of. It was funny. As we were. I flew up and Dibs. Drove. They'd drive. Most people had driven to Arizona from Boulder and as we were sort of coming home last Friday, Friday, I just sort of cheekily and jokingly messaged her saying, so, you know, with the, with the weather, is skiing in my training plan. And she was like, yeah, sure. And I was like, oh, okay. And she's kind of quite a big skier or relatively big. So, yeah, yesterday morning we got up, I got up at 4am, we met at 5am and we drove out to Arapaho Basin, I think it was, and took her dog Dakota and we actually, she'd got, she basically kitted me out in everything because I obviously hadn't got ski stuff with me. And we skinned, we skinned up the, up the hill and skied down and was back down by, I don't know, quarter past eight, back in the car, bacon breakfast bagel on the way home and back in, back in Boulder by, by half 10 and yeah, it was a great start to the week.

Fantastic. Were you, were you kind of cautious with your skiing? Because I, I don't think you've skied recently, have you? And it would be, it would be a shame to go and ruin yourself on a.

Well, of course, because, you know, as most people know and we've talked about, I've got shoulder and calf injury at the moment, so it was pre approved by physio and I was with my coach at the time. So, you know, I think if she hadn't been happy either, she would not have let me, let me go with her. But yeah, I mean, well, one, I didn't really know what we're doing kind of thing. I didn't know how big this hill was or anything like that. We're also at 10,000ft at that point and we, you know, skinned up a couple of, I think we skinned, maybe we're just below 10,000. We skinned up to over 11,000ft, so even more sort of altitude. And yeah, I haven't skied Since I think 2010, maybe around that time. And you know, when I used to, we were never, I was never. I would say I love skiing. I wouldn't say, I would say I could probably get down most things in a fashion if I needed to. I definitely wouldn't say I was like hugely amazing or competent. So yeah, I was pretty nervous going. I was like super excited and super nervous at the same time because kind of going up, not really knowing if then when we take the skins off and turn to come down, if I'm going to be able to get down and if she's just going to be pulling her hair out and waiting for me as I sort of have to slide down the mountain on my, on my bum. But no, the, the hill was actually probably like perfect. It was, it was pretty steep in places and then flattering others. So it was kind of a real great start. And I, you know, by the time, you know, you skin up for, I don't know, an hour or so and you ski down in five minutes and I got to the bottom, I was.

Like, right, can we go again?

Let's go. Again and. But, you know, that's it for the day. And we had the dog with. With us, so he was. He was charging all over the place in the snow as we went up and then as we went down as well. So it was. Yeah, it was brilliant. And it was just, you know, it was just great to do something different. And again, sort of. I've been in that rut from injury and again, races getting canceled or me having to cancel because of the injuries, prolonging and travel. Like, where am I? Where can you get? Where can you not get? I need to be back in the UK in April. Can I get back there? Can I get back to Spain and that sort of thing and just sort of. Yeah, it was. It was amazing just to get out. I didn't care how early it was. 3. Another friend came out and she walked. She didn't ski, so she walked part way up, walked back down and then. Yeah, and. And do something normal. And I'm just, I guess, grateful that I had that opportunity, knowing what. Yeah, the UK is like at the moment sort of thing. I was really. I was really like. I got back and I was just buzzing all day and I had other things happen yesterday as well, which just made it a super day. I sort of just ended, you know, at the end of the day, I write down, like, three things I'm sort of grateful for and my list. So it was like pages and pages long yesterday. It was brilliant. But we have a family. A family message on Facebook and I got back from the snow and obviously all the messages were about the recent, you know, the lockdown exit plan. And I'm like, oh, can I, like, post a picture that I've been skiing? Because I'm really excited about it, but. And I don't want to. I'm not posting it to rub it in, but I know, like, my sister loves skiing and all of this and life feels a bit more normal. I mean, I would say as well. Boulder is not. So Arizona was pretty open to normal life. Cafes, restaurants. Yes, masks. You know, you had to wear masks in shops and going inside places, but a lot of people weren't wearing masks outside and stuff like that and. And that sort of thing. But the places we use, you know, the gym and stuff, was all masks and things like that. But there are places that aren't. But Boulder is a bit more restricted still. Like, not everywhere is. Not all the cafes are open. A lot of them are still just takeaway or like we're, you know, you want to sit outside and that Sort of thing. So they've. Yeah, there, there's. There was a bit more caution. Caution there. But yeah, it's very strange being here and then going back and talking to family and everyone in the UK and.

Things and what's happening.

I had to double take because I was like, I thought, is it, is it Throwback Monday or something? I did have to.

Felt like it felt like it from the last time I went skiing.

And how's the snow affecting your training there then?

Well, I mean, yeah, so when we're in Arizona was brilliant because we had sort of two or three weeks of riding outside and running outside and then back to Boulder and it's like the roads are clear and the snow in Boulder doesn't last hugely that long. But it's pretty windy at the moment with like an icy, icy blasting wind. So that kind of definitely. I mean the temperatures, we're definitely talking, it's 0, it's minus 1 2, it's those kind of degrees. So I guess affecting training and it just means I'm back on the trainer inside rather than riding my bike outside in Boulder. Um, I mean, running. You could probably run outside still and, and wrap up a minute. Yeah, there's. We haven't had, haven't had snow since, like actual fall since I've arrived, but I think it's. There's some forecast in a couple of days again, which is a bit nerve wracking for driving, just, again, not having been used to driving in snowy conditions for a long time really. But hopefully I think they're pretty adapted to the snow and like, most of the main roads are cleared pretty quickly kind of thing. Cool.

So. So yeah, back on the indoor where you've basically got the weather that we've just hopefully got rid of.

So.

So yeah, back on Zwift. Right, so let's lead into the interview with Tim Don. This podcast is brought to you by Brits Superfood. Now, I've been a big advocate of wheatgrass for many years, but I only in the last year or so switched to having fresh wheatgrass that's then frozen as opposed to the powdered stuff. And I found that to improve my health even more. Now I've been a big advocate of wheatgrass because I know it's kept me fit and healthy because when I've had spells where I've stopped taking it, I've started picking up the bugs and colds and things like that again, which I never seem to get when I'm taking wheatgrass. I know it improves my immune system my health, but also it gives me more energy and faster recovery. So loads of health benefits of taking wheatgrass, but Brits is field grown, organic, freshly frozen and they also do a load of amazing juices well so that you can combine the two like the beetroot ones. You can have your nitrates before or after an event. You can find that more@britsuperfoods.co.uk but at the end of this podcast I'm going to give you a discount code or a referral code that will give you loads of benefits. So a discount, some free products, some free shipping, but they also have, which is worth just mentioning here, 110% 30 day money back guarantee. So if you're not feeling better having taken this for 30 days, they'll give you your money back and an extra 10% which is absolutely bonkers. But that's how confident they are on the health benefits that you will see as a result of taking wheat grass just for 30 days. So anyway, hang on to the end of this podcast and I'll give you a great discount code. Tim Don is like the godfather of triathlon. I mean he earned huge kudos on the short course, you know, three times Olympian, four times ITU world champion, countless ITU World cup victories. And then he turns his hand to 70.3 the half ironman distance. And, and he has a collection more titles under that, guys. And then he switches to Iron man and he sets the world record, still the world record for the fastest iron man in Brazil, which is the time of 740. So the fastest ever Iron man, which is just a phenomenal time. And then while he's right on the sort of crest of that wave in the days leading up to Kona, Hawaii, he has a awful bike accident hit by a car on the, on the Queen's highway and he suffered a hangman fracture. And he then spent months in this halo brace recovering only to then go and do an unbelievable time at the Boston Marathon. Having never run a marathon before. He is just incredible. And if you haven't seen the documentary the man with a Halo, it's an absolute must have. It is really gripping and incredible what he went through. But he is an icon of the triathlon world. What he's achieved is amazing and how he's come back from that injury is also incredible. So I really wanted to speak to him to learn more about, you know, how he recovered from that injury, his approach to goal settings. He's very goal orientated and also to know what's next for The Don Foreign. Welcome to the Tribeathlon podcast. Really pleased that you could join me this evening. Let's kick things off by. For those people that don't know that much about you, do you want to tell us a bit about how you got into triathlon and kind of the incredible journey, incredible career that you've had and some of those highlight events?

Yeah. Gosh. So long ago. I first got into triathlon 1992 when I was just turned just a teenager. I was very lucky. I grew up near Hampton and there was a open air swimming pool Hampton, open air swimming pool that had a triathlon club. I always swam and then I ran for my school and I was a member of Hounslow Running Club which is now, I think think it's now is that marketed gone from Hounslow to Hounslow, Windsor, Slough and Eaton? I think yeah. So I did all of that and then yeah, at the pool there's a local triathlon club and every bank holiday Monday they had these triathlons where there were 400 meter swims where you kind of went a snake down every lane of the pool. Two laps of bushy park on the bike which was approximately 20 kilometers and then you ran to Hampton Court palace along the River Thames, did a U turn around a lamppost and back again and yeah, so that was my first ever triathlon there. And then I joined the local club and then the local club coach was a guy called Graham Fletcher who was studying a master's in I don't know if it's sports science or sports science and exercise physiology at Borough Road, the Brunel University. And he saw, lucky for me, he saw that I had a bit of talent and he asked if I wanted to be coached by a triathlon coach. And back then my run group consisted of Mo Farah, Sam hockey and Ben Whitby. And Sam and Ben, they went to Commonwealth Games. They were represented Great Britain, you know, on multiple stages. And obviously Mo went on to be Sermo, the great, great athlete he was. And I was like two of them go to my school. I'm the third quickest runner in my school, the fourth quickest runner in my county. It's like what I'll give this triathlon a go, I could be good at this. But there was a young kid who was a year younger than me called Stuart Hayes who I used to swim with and he had tri spokes, aluminium Trek carbon aluminium Trek bikes, he had all the bells and whistles. I was doing it in my rat trap and trainers but I Just fell in love with the sport back then. And Graham, my coach back then in the early 90s, he took me all the way to Sydney Olympics junior world title 1998, a couple of silver medals at junior European Championships and then onto Sydney Olympics. The first ever time triathlon was in the Olympic Games. And then, yeah, we carried on working for another couple of years and then, yeah, we decided to part ways. But that definitely got me started into triathlon.

Amazing. And Sydney Olympics being the first Olympics where triathlon was, and being in Australia, which is obviously slightly keen on triathlon, I mean, that must have. What was that like?

Mental. Absolutely mental. I mean, the women, when they race, they were the first medal event at the whole Olympic Games. And Micheley Jones, world champion, ITU Kona winner, she was the favorite to win gold and she got a silver medal. And then we were the next day so that the whole country were just going nuts. And it was, back then, it was one of the, as you said, triathlon is just huge in Australia, you know, and it was one of the only events that was free to go and watch, you know, you had to pay, I think, to go in the grandstand on the Opera Opera steps. But the course was as such. And I remember I was running on the. Halfway through the first lap of the run with a guy called Peter Robinson who was in the Australian team. And I either needed to drop him or he needed to drop me because it was just deafening. Robbo, Robbo, you can beat the pomme. And I'm like, bloody hell. So luckily I did drop him. But yeah, it was just. I remember and I was in the team. I was very much a junior. I was a senior, but the junior of the team members, Simon Lesson, I don't think he'd lost a race in 400 years. He was the hands down favorite in the British team. Andrew Johns was the current World cup winner. So he was the most consistent athlete. 99 and early 2000, which in this day and age would have made him a world champion. So we had such a stellar team. So I was just on easy street. I just had to turn up and, yeah, kind of like enjoy myself and take it all in. And it really was. Yeah, I mean, I was lucky. I got 10. So, yeah, I was super happy with that.

Fantastic. And then how did that. How did your career progress in the. In around the Olympics?

So which.

Tell me about the other experiences there.

Yeah, so that was 2000 and then by then I'd been a senior for two years and I was well established, top 10 finisher on the World ITU circuit. Yeah, kept that going. 2002, I won the World Drathlon champs, which was pretty cool. Then I started. Then I found a new coach, guy called Craig Ball, who I used to train with when I was a junior. Yeah, carried on bumbling around. By then I bought a house in South Africa and I was living in Stellenbosch permanently.

Amazing part of the world.

Yeah, I mean we went down there on a training camp leading up to Sydney Olympics and I fell in love with the town and the people and just the culture. So I thought. And the wine. Well, that came later when I moved to a wider state. We won't go to that too much, but yeah, I mean, it was just phenomenal. And yeah, I was, you know, living in the Northern hemisphere. You know, the bulk of our work is done in the winter and by 95 was the first time I went to Club La Santa at Lanzarote. And I didn't want to just. I definitely couldn't live in on the island and I didn't want to go come back. And my parents, I was still living at home. My parents lived, you know, it wasn't then, it wasn't the best place to train at that stage. And the riding was getting busy. Busier on the roads around Richmond park, going out towards Cobham and Esha into the Surrey hills. So I thought, I can live here. It's the same times, one hour time zone difference to uk. It's a night flight, very easy, British Airways. I lived, I don't know, like a 20 minute drive from Heathrow Airport. So, yeah, I moved down there. Yeah, won a few World Cups on my way. And then in 205 I had a big breakthrough. I changed coaches again with a guy called Brett Sutton and I won the first World cup of the year. And then I won three more. And back then no one had been that consistent since Simon Lessin blacked out at the World Champ. I won the World Aquathon champs that year, 205. But then at the World Triathlon Champs, I swallowed my. I blacked out. It was very hot in Gamagori, Japan and ended up swallowing my tongue and like, yeah, passing out and had to end up in a medical ambulance and tent and so forth. And then, yeah, 206. I was fed up, not fed up, but I didn't want to be Mr. Consistent. I wanted to be a world champion. I always, you know, I always wanted to be the best on that one day. So we put all our eggs in one basket. It was I don't know if it was fate, but the world champs were back in Lausanne, which was where I won my junior world title. My sister was living in Lausanne at the time. Brett Sutton was based about 50 km away in lays Inn. So yeah, we trained on the course specifically that year. Fourth at Commonwealth Games in Melbourne. Going just off the medal. Yeah, so I put it all in and yeah, I was say lucky enough, but the harder you train, the luckier you get to win a world title. Yeah, my second world triathlon world title in Luzon.

Amazing. That must have been incredible. And then you progressed through from, from kind of standard distance through to longer distance. So how, how, how. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so From Lausanne in 2006, it was all in for Beijing, which was two years later, the Olympic Games and everything was going great. The last major race we did that year was in Tongyong in Korea and I won it. And Jan Fodeno had a sprint finish with bevan Doherty about 30 seconds behind me for silver and third. And then we went to Beijing. I carried on some great form. Three days before the race, I came down with a severe bout of food poisoning. So I had a bowl on my knee and I was sat on the toilet. So I started the race, but I was about three and a half kilograms underweight and yeah, I got lapped on the bike. So yeah, that was really hard for me to take. And if it wasn't that the next Olympic cycle was our home Olympics, I think I would have gone to long course there. I've probably either given up or gone to long course. But you know, being a London boy, there was too much, too much pull and I had some good races between 208 and 2012. I was ranked top 10 in the world in 2012. But unfortunately these two young whippersnappers had started to get quick. Alan, Johnny, and they wanted domestique and I didn't want to be a domestique for anyone when I was top 10 in the world. So they picked Stewie Hayes, ironically, who I started my journey with. He got his first Olympic games and obviously the rest with Alan Johnny's history. And that definitely made me go, nope, I don't want to be a part of this. I want to race for myself. When you've got, you know, some people who don't have a team that they only qualify one athlete, it's not like cycling, it's not a level playing field. So yeah, that's when I moved to America with my wife Kelly and our then 2 year old 2 year old 3 year old daughter Matilda. We moved to Boulder, Colorado, found a new coach, Judy Dibbins, who I went to Athens Olympics with. And actually she also won the age group world champs in 1998. I think it was 1998 when I won my title. So I kind of paralleled careers. She had moved to America with an American husband, Mike, podiumed at Kona, won world 70 point threes. She understood the dynamics of ITU racing and my strengths, having trained together and raced together all over the world. And she'd made the transition very smoothly. So I thought that was a great fit. And yeah, I was. I've been coached by Julie until I moved back to England recently and that was how I kind of transitioned out of the itu.

Fantastic. And I'm going to come back to how you transitioned from ITU to long course. But so then for those people that don't know what happened when you started on long course, tell them about that because it's been a bit of a roller coaster, hasn't it?

Oh, it's been crazy. I mean, you know, you come in and, you know, I mean, you guys have watched ITU on, hopefully you've watched ITV on the BBC. Even if it's the red button, it is the grand. It is the Grand Slam. It's live on television often, if not it's on the red button. It's a city center racing. It's two in the afternoon, you know, you razzle and dazzle and you go to America. And I did my first 70.3 and it was like a 5:30am start in a muddy field and I'm like, what? This is how I started in the 90s. What's going on? So it's a bit of a shock to the system. The first year I struggled. I really couldn't access my run speed, which is what I was known for in itu. The biking training was simpler, not easier, simpler, because it's just that endurance is just that steady state. But I had such variability in my training in terms of, you know, like a criterion from itu, accelerating out of corners, into corners, finishing the last couple of K on the bike, full gas. So 2012, 2013 was very much a learning year for me. But by 2014, I'd got my stride at 70.3. In fact, I got. Did I? Yeah, I got third at the World Champs that year. Yan won. No, Javi won. Jan was second. I was third in Montremblance. That was a cracking podium. Then Julie said, why don't you do an iron Man? So I said okay when she goes, well, there's one in two weeks in Mallorca. I said okay, I've never been to Mallorca. So I went to Mallorca, did my first Ironman and it was quite good because most people who are doing Kona, it was about three weeks before Kona, they weren't there so it wasn't a kick ass field. Again, I was lucky enough to win my first ever Ironman and that qualified me for 2015 Kona. But I realized I had a lot to learn. So that February 2015 we went to Kona with Julie. By then she was. I think I'd really kind of promoted her. Now it's called the JD Crew and she's got an international stellar squad of Tim o', Donnell, Lauren, Brandon, Big Metzler. Yeah and very various other professional athletes based in America. But that was definitely much back then it was just me and her and a couple of top age groupers. So that's how I kind of transitioned from ITU. 70.3. Yeah. Carried on racing, love 70.3, got to the stage where I was winning most 70.3 I was doing. Hadn't quite nailed Ironman Kona. The first year I got a bite penalty for cutting in and then I got stomach issues on the run so I think I got 16th. I ran a 302 but I walked about 2 miles of the run. So even if you take my bike penalty out, I think I would have top 10. If you take out the walk in I would have got top five but I didn't and it wasn't to be. So yeah, I was still very much more than a 70.3 athlete I believe then I had to make a living and you know, winning those races, races, them, they were becoming more lucrative for me and had a second son or boy American. God damn Hugo's American on the way. But I still wanted to go back to Kona so I did add the Brazil Iron man and got second there. But Brett McMahon just killed everyone. He had a stellar race and he was just off the world record by about 50 seconds that Lionel Saunders held, qualified for Kona, had terrible cramps unfortunately and didn't finish such a, such a cruel race. 2017. Yep. Game won every 70.3 I think I did except one. And then yeah, obviously I went to Brazil in May and yeah, had a really good, really good Ironman there. Probably one of, well, probably one of, if not my best performances I've ever had in the sport.

So for those people that don't know that was setting the fastest ever Ironman time, which still stands I think.

Doesn't, doesn't it doesn't. It was 7, 40, 23. Matt Hanson, who ironically now is coached by the same coach as me. He went quicker than me by about 50 seconds but there's an asterisk by it because the bike course was over two and a half miles short at Texas because the week before they had to do some maintenance to some power cables so they had to move the turn so everyone, everyone got told, hey the course is the same but it's a two miles shorter. So he went 50 seconds quicker than me but it wasn't an Ironman and I remind him of that.

And it is an astonishing time. It absolutely is an astonishing time. And then you say you were in the shape of your life going, going into Kona and then what happened next?

Yeah, so after Brazil I was like oh no, am I going to hit this trough of, you know, mental fatigue, you know when you have the highs so high and then you boom. But I decided I wanted to carry on training virtually straight away because I didn't want to have that two week chill and then just couldn't get back on the horse because you know you lose fitness so quickly because you do a big taper and whatnot. So I carried on training, went to world 70.3 and got third there. But have he won again? God damn, how many world titles as the kid got? And Ben Kanute was second but I was the first of that Ironman guys which I was now classing myself as I was over the moon. And yeah, I went to Kona three days. Yeah, everything was good, I was happy, you know, went there early with one of my good mates, Sam Village and yeah, everything was chipping along. And then the Wednesday, the race is Saturday, the Wednesday I had a short session, rolled out of town up on the Queen K in the cycle lane. There's a petrol station on your right and obviously you're riding on the right side and a car coming towards me turned in and T boned me. I remember thinking skidding because I just put my race tires on going, I'm going to get a flat spot, I've got to change that tire again as I hit this white truck and then yeah, I remember about, they said about 25 minutes later I came to, I knocked myself out and I just remember going like this, going yes, I've broken my collarbone. They like don't move, don't move, the ambulance is on its way. Then I remember bits and bobs yeah. But long, long story short, I ended up in hospital having all of these scans and unfortunately I found out that I'd had a fracture to my neck, broke my neck at C2, which is kind of like in line with your teeth. So I couldn't race Kona that year. And yeah, had to fly back to Colorado to see some specialists. And they gave me three. They gave me three choices. But really there's only one choice. The doctor very rarely says, well, you could do this or this. They're kind of telling you there are options. But in their opinion, and the options were to have an operation to fuse it or have a soft neck collar on my neck, which would remind me I have a broken neck and hopefully I don't move too much. And the problem with the fusion is they fuse C1 and C2 so they wouldn't move independently. So it puts a lot of strain on your, on the vertebrae below. So normally within 10 years, you then need a fusion of C3, 4 and 5. And what they do is for that one, they go in the front, move everything and put a big mesh there. So my neck really wouldn't be that removable or we keep your neck so still that you do not move it. The bone fuses together. And the way to do that is to plaster cast the neck. And obviously that's called a. That's called a halo, which, which is.

Oh, that's it there.

That's the screw.

So that's the screws that go in. So for anybody that hasn't. Hasn't seen this or doesn't been aware of this, then the. I mean, this looks like a. Some sort of medieval torture device, doesn't it?

It is.

Basically, those screws were bolted into your, into your head, onto your skull, weren't they?

It's just an Allen key hole there. They have an Allen key with a torque wrench and these four titanium screws, they go about a centimeter. Where is it? A centimeter into my skull. And yes, they talk them to about 8 meters. So anyone that's got a bike knows that that's tighter than a seat post of a carbon bike. Otherwise you're going to crack the carbon. Yeah. And then there's this big whole frame and it goes right down to your belly button. So you cannot move. But basically you've got these open wounds in your head for hopefully three months if you don't have any problems. And I had lots of problems.

Well, and the documentary on that is absolutely brilliant. It just gives you such a fantastic insight into what Went on and the build up to it and the. Your time with the Halo on. And it's freely available. It's on. I think it's on. Well, it's on YouTube, but it's on running.

Did it.

Didn't they?

Yeah, on running. So it's on, I think Red Bull TV. But yeah, it's on YouTube and through the. On website.

I think it's called. Is it called man with the Halo, Is that right?

Yeah, the man with the Halo, Tim Don. The man with a Halo.

It is well worth watching. It really is incredible. So what was going through your mind when you were in the recovery stage of that, you know, because it must have been, you know, there must have been a huge question of whether you'd actually be able to race again. So what was going through your mind?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I chose the Halo is because he said, all being well, you should be able to race again, you know, barring anything, if you're stupid. Unless you're stupid. So, you know, everyone asked, did you watch Kona? Was it bad? Was it terrible? You know, that the. How the race panned out was exactly how I envisaged it and how, you know, I would have raced the race. And I was like, you know What? The first 10 days I was. I was on so many painkillers. I genuinely. All these visitors I had early on, I can't remember hardly any of them. So I do apologize for that. But, yeah, I mean, it was a roller coaster. And the documentary, I haven't watched it that many times, to be fair, because it brings back whole ray of emotions. But apparently the first edit of the documentary, that Andrew, who is the producer, the director, he's the guy that was not living with me, but I was with a lot. It was too dark on set. It was too, you know, he said, we can't put this out. You know, they really had to put more lighthearted moments in because. Yeah, initially, you know, the pain was just terrible. I mean. Yeah, and I just couldn't move. I couldn't do anything. I'm quite an independent person. You know, when you can't. Can't get dressed, you can't wash your hair. My wife had to clean my. Clean my screws, you know, three times a day with surgical spirits and whatnot, because they were, you know, just pusing and, you know, gunk. And then obviously I can't shower because I've got this fake sheepskin thing down here. So we had to kind of get a hand on. Yeah, it's Just, yeah, really, really not, not very good. And I think it was about, about four weeks into it by then. I was. I wasn't on. I wasn't on. I was on like over the counter painkillers. I still was. I was still sleeping in a chair because I couldn't lay down because you put pressure there. It kind of like would dig the screws in at the top, at the head. But I went to the gym with my manager and Jim Franco, who's in the documentary, a lot of very, very good friend, and obviously Julie as well. And I did five minutes on like a, like an exercise bike. No, no, no Zwift at that stage or anything like that. And I think it was 100, 105 watts. I averaged. And like Kelly said, when I came home, I was just a different person because I thought, you know what? I want to. I'm ready and I can do this exercise. Then the problem was, is I had to call everyone to give because I couldn't drive. Everyone had to be my little taxi and take me to the gym every day. And then John Dennis, my great friend from Newcastle, who was actually at Beijing Olympics as the British physio and he's worked with Bradley Wiggins and lots of other professional athletes, he flew over and we really started to work on a lower leg program. Just small things, but I needed this process. I needed to see how I was going to get from wearing this to hopefully back on the start line of a race of some sort of. And that's when ON came up with this idea. And Oliver Bernard, who's the founder of on, he phoned me up and I remember it, I was in the park with the kids and Kelly, and he said, look, we've had this idea, but I don't want the marketing guys to run it past you. I wanted to run it past you because it's a real personal thing and we totally understand if you don't want to do it. And he explained the whole kind of thing. And I said, well, have you spoke to Franco? And he said, no, haven't spoke to anyone because if it's dead in the water, we just want to leave it. But. And I said, well, let me think about it. But definitely it's not a no, first off. And that was how the whole thing. Then we met a couple of video guys and then we met this guy, Andrew Hinton, who was living in Oregon, but he was a British guy. And yeah, that's how that found. And that kind of, in a weird way gave me. Gave me more Purpose, which is what I needed, because it kind of like, well, gosh, if they're doing that, I have to do it. You know, there's accountability. But that's when I maybe started to do a bit too much. And I could feel the screws were coming loose, so I had to go back. And whenever they also, when they, when they screwed these in, I was only under a local anesthetic, like a dentist. And it was funny, it took about two hours to put it on, which I thought was a long time. And the guys goes, that was like a record. And I said, what do you mean? They said, well, normally we put the people to sleep. I'm like, why didn't you tell me that? Give me the option. And they were like, well, you just sat there and said, let's do it. So we looked at each other and said, okay, we'll do it. And. And I was just stood there. My friend Pat, who'd flown back from Hawaii with me to kind of look after me, he was there filming with his iPhone, just going grayer and gray. And I'm going, just, just, just, just, just get it on, get it on. But when they kept on coming loose, my head would swell up with all this fluid, you know, my forehead, it would swell up maybe, maybe an inch, like here. And then they tighten it and it got to the state. Every three weeks I was having CAT scans and X rays, you know, just to make sure the bone was sitting well. And it got to the stage, it was the front, front right one that they realized they'd tighten it quite deep. And if they tightened it anymore, it was going to go straight through my skull into the brain. And I thought, that's not bad because they're probably going to take it off. So it's about 10 days before Christmas and they told me this scenario and I was like, okay, so we're going to take it off. And they said, no, we're going to drill another hole in. So that was my Christmas present. I had a fifth, fifth screw. The fourth one came out and they drilled another hole in. So, yeah, that was another dark day where I'd gone in my mind so far forward. I mean, I was only walking 45 minutes because I'd get headaches and stuff. And I was only in the gym for 45 minutes, but doing very light band work, thorough work on my legs. And then it was at that stage when they said, well, let's have a target. And on said, you got to pay for race entry. I was like, what, are you serious? But I could do. They could get me in an elite start for Boston Marathon because of my. I've never done a standalone marathon, but when I broke the Ironman world record, I ran 2:46. And that was quick enough to give me. No.244. It gave me a quick enough time to do an elite start. So that's kind of how that materialized. Yeah, I had to earn that spot.

And so you were doing the Boston Marathon, what was it, six months after the. The accident?

I think six months and a week. And the halo had been off for just under three months.

That's absolutely incredible. And your time in Boston was.

It was 249 56, which is astonishing.

I was listening to another podcast where you interviewed and you were quite embarrassed by the fact that that's your only marathon time.

It is. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I go quicker. Just give me 180k bike in 406 and then I'll go quicker. And we had, we did have a. In my defense, it was one of the worst weather days ever recorded for the Boston map because it doesn't cost. Not that I would ever do this doesn't class as a world record because it's a point to point race. So it starts at about 10am because they have to bus everyone from the city center out to John Hopkins, I think it's called, which we all know now what's at John Hopkins, the statistic university. That's where we get all our stats for coronavirus. I was like, I've been there. So the start is right in front of it. And we had a headwind the whole way. It was like with a minus 2 chill factor. Sleet and snow and blizzard. Half the elite field finished and that amazing Japanese male athlete won. And we had an American winner on the women's side because all the East African athletes, it was just far too cold for the majority of them. So I would have run quicker, but we had this killer headwind.

I still think it's hilarious that you're slightly, you know, you're giving excuses to why it was a 249. Well, for the vast majority of people, they're going, that's an amazing marathon time anyway. But you're doing it three months after a halo's come off and it's your first ever. I mean it is actually astonishing.

How.

How did you. How do you think your. How did you get back to run? Because you obviously didn't run while you had a halo on and then you weren't running that much before. How do you think you retained such speed without really that much training in.

The lead up to it, I guess, I guess it's, you know, just like muscle memory. Years and years of, you know, been, you know, as an athlete I've always prided myself with consistency is king. You know, give me 10 average sessions over four Legend sessions and a couple of silly easy days. You know, we're in an endurance sport of four to eight hours. In the old days itu 1 hour 45. Now it's more 142. You know, we need to be consistent. So I guess that played a massive part. And yeah, I mean that was the big thing. You know, I was lucky. You know, I think after about a week, 10 days after the Halo came out, there's an auto G treadmill in Boulder, an anti gravity treadmill which was at the physio practice which I use and the massage practice so I could use it for free. So I remember starting Julie was there and I had this. I had various colors of different tightnesses and materials because they got quite sweaty when I was on the turbo trainer on Zwift and I did on the altogether treadmill. It reduces your body weight. You can set it. So at the time I was probably weighing 72kg, which is crazy heavy for me. And I could set it so I weighed only 50% of my body weight or 40%. So I think it was originally designed for NASA to have that gravity kind of feel when they go and then when they come back to introduce load to their body. But Paula Radcliffe, I think she was one of the first elite athletes to really make them famous. When I think she got one shipped to Font Remau in the French Pyrenees at high altitude so she could supplement her mileage with doing extra miles with less load on her system. So I was very lucky enough to use that. But it was literally 30 second jog, like a minute walk times 10. And I came out and I was like, my back's so sore and that's it. When the Halo came off, it wasn't just my neck, it was from my belly button up and I'd lost so, so much muscle mass and so much rotation. If you can imagine, I hadn't moved one of those vertebrae all the way through my thoracic. I could only lift my shoulders this high because it was here. So the range of motion, I still, I thought, yes, I'm going to have a great night's sleep. When Halo comes off. I couldn't lay down flat without getting cramps in my back because the muscles just Couldn't take the weight of my big tummy. So, yeah, there were lots of these small steps that we had to do. But within about three weeks, I was running on the treadmill, in a lot of pain, still wasn't swimming. And by. Even with the halo on, I was actually on the trainer. So I was gaining aerobic fitness. But I'd only run probably three and a half, four weeks maximum outside. I think my longest run was probably only 26-28km, and that would have only been once. The rest would have been 20Ks. I really didn't deserve to do that and my body paid for it, you know, the week or so after, in fact, I flew straight back to Europe to do some promotional work and obviously the documentary launch in Switzerland. And then I went on a training camp with Matt Bottral to France. And I was just useless. I really was with all the athletes that he works with. But it really gave me. It gave me that sense of not achievement, but I can do it. And by then I thought, I can have a season this year. I've got to realign my goals and expectations from. You know, I think that was the hardest thing as well, is. I'm not saying I didn't just break my neck, but it was three days before what could have been a race to change my life. If I'd have been the first British athlete to win Kona, you know, it would have. You know, it would have been, yeah, massive for the sport. All these amazing women we have from, you know, Chrissie, Wellington, Leander K. Rachel Joyce, you know, Julie, you know, in the Ironman, you know, us men had to step up and thank goodness the Scott. David McNamee has done just that with two phenomenal podiums. What an amazing athlete.

Yeah.

And it was like I came from here to here and I was just stuck here with no way out and doing that marathon with all that pressure. I remember it's a Monday race as well. Boston the day before. In the New York Times, the sports pullout section, I'm on the front cover saying, this guy reckons he can run sub 250. And I'm like, I told him my dreams I could, but I wanted to run under three hours. And, you know, that for me, gave me the confidence that I could race a 70.3 sometime in the summer.

And do you think you're you, you will get back to the speed that you had prior to the accident at that stage, or do you think now, or do you think you already are?

Or, hey, I'm getting old now look, my beard's got gray in it. I'm 43 tomorrow. I will never get back to those speeds again. I'm. The game has continually moved on, and I had a year and a half out. You know, the pandemic we're going through now is so unfortunate for, you know, across a multitude of levels, but in a selfish, personal, professional athlete kind of way, you know, it's maybe taken two of the last years of my career away from me. So I will be remembered as the man in the Halo, not the guy who's dominated ITU for all those years and, you know, done the duathlon, the triathlon, the aquathon, the junior senior Ironman world record. It will be because of the Halo. You know, I don't think I'll ever get back to, you know, those kind of times on an accurate course, but I definitely, you know, I saw Ironman today, actually. Just put a lot more professional races on the calendar. Frankfurt's back on, obviously, Mallorca is, and there's a lot more. I think I can be competitive, you know, if I have a, you know, a good. A good, a perfect. If there's such a thing run up to a race, I'd like to think I can give some of those younger guys a run for their money, but I think I'd have to have Lady Luck and all those stars aligned perfectly.

And are you still finding that you're restricted as a result of your injury?

Massively. I mean, if, you know, basically, this is turning left, that's rotation and that's turning right. I physically cannot turn it anymore.

Half as much, isn't it?

Totally. And again, because I was in my career, I pride myself on consistency. And I was always. I was always. Some people would have said soft, but looking back, I think they're quite jealous of me. If I felt anything wrong with my body, I'd go, no, I'm not doing it. I'm gonna find out what this is, find the problem, find the cause, rectify it. As opposed to some athletes that will go, oh, take an ibuprofen. Ah, I'll stretch it. Ah, I'll do this, I'll do that. Oh, I've got a 20 centimeter tear. I've got a stress, stress, stress fracture in my shin, or, oh, I've torn a labral, I've got a labral tear in my hip. You know, the worst injuries I've had have been I got a pin in my wrist from a bike crash, I've broken my arm, broken my leg in a In an accident. Yeah, I've got scars all over my face from bike crashes and whatnot, but food poisoning, but never through over training. So yeah, that's a thing that stays with me now as well, that I really must focus on being consistent with my training.

Brilliant. And my first ironman was Italy 2019. And so you were out there and I was hoping to get to the finish and find out that you'd won it. And then we find out that actually you've had a, had a crash. Tell me a bit about that. But also more from a sort of mindset point of view because I would imagine after what happened in Kona, you know, you must take a bike crash differently now to how you did before.

Yes and no. I mean, look, I ride my bike a lot, you know, thousands of kilometers every year for the last 20 plus years. And that is the first ever bike crash I've ever had involving a car. All the others have been, you know, gravel leaves, going too fast, malfunctions with equipment, but not, not all my own fault as well. But, you know, it's that. So I've never felt wary of cars because, you know, that's a pretty good, you know, statistic to have. But yeah, going back to Italy, 2019, I'll actually take you back earlier. So 2018, like I made it back to Kona by the skin of my teeth through, through some pretty tough, tough races. I just wanted to finish. I finished 36. But for me, my wife was there, my daughter, she'd never been to Kona. It was just like I could close the chapter, you know, and move on. So we planned to go back to South Africa for the winter of 2018 to do the 70 the Ironman there. And unfortunately I was on at a mechanical on my bike that was totally unfixable and I was in good shape and I was looking to qualify for Kona 2019 there, but I couldn't finish the race because my bike was unrideable. So then I thought, well, I'll nail a load of 70 point threes in the season, which I did okay. Got a few podiums and if I hit some good form, I'll do an Ironman, you know, to try and qualify myself for Kona. And I was in good, good enough shape where I thought I could get on the podium in Camworth. Signed up great. But I still believed I could get on the podium, which is what was needed. Yeah. So I turned up to Italy. They shortened the swim in South Africa and I think they shortened the swim in Italy. Didn't they as well?

No, no, I think so. No, they didn't.

In South Africa they shortened it, but the day before, they would have shortened it because it was so rough, wasn't it? Exactly.

It was red flag day the day before, wasn't it?

Yeah. And it should have been a no wetsuit. I think they ended up making us wear wetsuits for one reason or another. But anyway, Kenworth came flying past, I let him go. And I was. I was doing really well. Two lap bike course. Beautiful. As you know, Italian. I went up the hill into the village, you know. Yep. And then you kind of get. Got to a 90 degree turn in this. I say cobbles, but it wasn't Paris Roubaix. It was. It was paved. Paved paving. And literally I turned the corner, a guy just went like that. And I just t bone, I just went into him. There was nowhere for me to go. He was getting a drink from his water bottle on his first lap. I was on my second lap, crashed, kind of like, whoa. Okay, let's go, let's go, let's go. The other guys with me, they attacked and went really hard because they wanted to drop me. They're buggers. Anyway, I said, I'm okay, I'm okay. And the marshals are going, no, you cannot carry on. You know. And that was. I cut my knee. But yeah, it was just mostly superficial. And they said, no, no, your bike, your bike. And then unfortunately, the way I hid him, my frame snapped in half.

I remember seeing the photo on Instagram, looking at the front.

It was like a freak accident.

Like, I just assumed it was slightly further down the hill because actually there was a good descent after that, wasn't there?

15K an hour max speed. They often say that those kind of crashes are the, the awkward ones where, you know, when you, you slide, you just slide, take skin off, but you break bones. So I was lucky. I didn't break any bones. I had a hematoma on my hip. And, you know, when I got back to the hotel, I was swelled up. I could have been definitely physically, mentally, I was up for that, but I couldn't. And I was like, are you kidding me? At the mechanical in South Africa, let alone what happened, you know, the previous two seasons. And then, yeah, so, yeah, I was in Kona because I'm part of the Zwift Academy as a mentor for 2019. And yeah, I wanted to get back there last year, 2020. But again, yeah, the season got taken away from us and maybe this year it's. We Yeah, I mean, I don't know how Ironman are gonna. Gonna do the professional races if they start to get canceled, how they're gonna. Are the people that qualified for 2020, are they carried over or do we start? Yeah, we're not quite sure, you know, how they're gonna do it because there.

Was talk of a load of wild cards and things like that. Wasn't there when they were talking about January, February one, weren't they?

But that's right.

Yeah, but then, but yeah, now it's all up in the air again, isn't it?

Yeah. So generally. And look, you know, it's kind of like you damp. Whatever they do, they're going to be lovers and haters. But don't, don't, you know, don't hate the players. You know, it's totally out of their control right now, sat here. I don't think I'm. I want to race Kona. I would rather focus on another race in the middle of the summer that I can, you know, maybe like a Frankfurt or a Roth, a nice fast course that I could really, you know, kind of say, you know, even if I qualify, maybe still turn it down. I'm an expensive trip for a professional.

You're not the first person to say that on this podcast.

Yeah, yeah. Having. Having. Yeah. Been there many times. Well, not many times through four times and, and not had the race that I, I truly wanted. Yeah. But, yeah, so I don't think I'll go back there as an athlete, but I'll definitely be there with the Zwift Academy as a mentor for the. Yeah. For the, for the men and women that qualified for the 2021.

Fantastic. And you mentioned briefly, and it comes up in man with a Halo. Goals. How important have goals been to you over your career? And is there a particular process that you go through around setting goals?

Massive, massively important. Whatever I do, there's a goal. If it's fill a car up and put 50 pound. Exactly. You know, I'm a bit OCD, me. No, of course it's, you know, that's. That's what's always driven me. I've always been, you know, always been someone that had to have something to work with. You know, I've got all my training in like ring binder folders from the 90s, written down, how many hours I slept, how I felt out of 10. You know, I love the process because I have this expression session, this way of getting it all out there, which for me is racing. It's not as clinical As a running track, as a swimming pool. There's so much kind of flair that goes on to triathlon races, especially in itu, you know, where it's, you know, you've got to react to people, you've got to back yourself, you've got to attack, you've got to take chances. So setting those goals was very important. And then I love working backwards. So we have this goal, let's say Sydney Olympic, I just won the junior World Champs, I want to go to the Olympics. Yeah, that's a brilliant goal. Well, that doesn't just happen. So then we had to say, well, you've got zero world ranking, so you need to start that, you know, you need to do a senior race. You haven't done one of those. And that's when it goes, okay, this is, this is, I can't go to the Olympics, it's impossible. It's like a mammoth task. But with my coach back then, Graham, who, you know, helped me set this goal making philosophy by breaking it down to, you know, to, you know, 2020 to 2019, to, sorry, 22,000 to 1999, God, we're talking a long time ago to 1998. And then within that having racing goals, training goals, life goals. Yeah, it's just the way my mind works. And sure you don't reach them all, but by focusing on the process to reach that goal, you're learning something about yourself physiologically and also what you're capable of mentally. And definitely working with Brett Sutton from 2005 for a number of years, like he really took my mental game what I, you know, what I thought was possible and what actually was possible. They were, I was so far aligned. And he really gave me that confidence to have that mental belief in myself. You know, when I went to Sydney Olympics, my coaches said you were capable of a top three there, but you didn't believe in it. So you got 10th. And I was like, yeah, whatever. And looking back, yeah, physiologically I probably was in that shape. I just didn't, didn't. I wasn't ready for it. And yeah, that's sport.

So how do you go about setting these goals and how often do you revisit them and you know, do you write them down? Do you have a kind of special way of going about it? You know, how do you, ah, write them down?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, write them down. I don't care what anyone says, aim for the biggest, the best. Don't just aim for mediocrity, aim for, why not, you know, whatever, whatever level you Are, don't just say, I want to do a triathlon. Say I want to do the best triathlon I can do. Do you know what, what's this age group European team. I want to qualify that if I can do that, I can go to the ITU World champs for my age group. I say, why not? Not why I, why can't I? And so for me, I always set the biggest, most lofty goals, you know, and then, but then I have a process. I don't just wait for them to fall on my lap. And that's the, not the secret, but that's the challenging part, is to always reevaluate your journey. Don't. If you know you have this blueprint of how you're going to get there, but life is not like that. You know, you don't get straight A's, go to the first choice university, get the dream job. You know, was it two children, a dog, white picket fence? It's very rarely like that. Never like that for me. But it's how you reinvent yourself. And also, don't enter these goals on your own. Involve your. For me now, definitely my wife, my coach, you know, my friends, and I say sponsors, which they are. But, you know, I've been with some brands since the 90s that I'm still with today. So, you know, it is a journey that you're with them and, you know, likewise as amateurs, you know, it's your teammates, it's your training partners, it's your, even your colleagues at work, you know, going, this guy, crazy guy, he's getting a longer lunch break so he can, you know, it's really trying to make the process as fun as possible and getting everyone involved in it. And then again, don't be afraid to reset the goals, whether make them harder, lift that bar or say, you know what, I've got an injury, let's make it happen next year, not this year.

And so. And so how often would you typically revisit those goals? You know, how often do you go back to them?

In my mind, daily I have a bad run session. Like, you know, today I had a good run session. You have a bad one, and you're like, I've got a Zwift race in like four weeks. I'm never going to be able to do that. What? Oh, no way. And then, then I have to go now. Come on, you know, let's. You're having a shower and go, okay, that wasn't the best, but yesterday was good the day before. I've been consistent. Okay. Yeah, you know, you can't put them in a piece of paper, put them in a drawer and forget about them till the day before the race. That's just like stupidity. So, no, without a doubt, you're always, you're always playing with your mind. You know, you'd be amazed that some of the best athletes, except for obviously Michael Jordan, if anyone's seen that documentary, he was just uber confident. Most of us really doubt our talents are, you know, what we can do. Whether you're a football player, a basketball player, a triathlete, you know, a cyclist. If you'd have told Bradley Wiggins the week before the Tour, he might have gone, yeah, I'm going to win it. But no way did he truly believe that until the process happened. You know, his coaches are probably telling him, you're the lightest, you're the leanest, you've got the best team, your numbers are spot on. You know, this is your race. He's going, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I'm not going to win the Tour de France. I'm British. What's going on? But it's not until that snowball effect happened that he built that self belief. And you know, that's a big part of it is never talk yourself out of something. If you're not in it, you're not going to win it. If you don't try it, you're not going to fail. If you fail, you're going to learn. If you learn, you're going to be a better person, a better athlete. It's that, that kind of process that you, yeah, don't, don't back down from a, from a challenge.

I think it's a fantastic advice because I mean, two things. I mean, I'm a big advocate of setting goals religiously. I will reset my goals every, rewrite my goals every quarter, but I'll be looking at them every month and every week and almost. And mentally every day. But it's that chunking down. I always describe it as, you know, if you, if you want to wait to an elephant, you do it one bite at a time, don't you? And you know, that big goal, the elephant looks really scary, but if you then work it backwards, then it actually becomes very achievable. And so I think that's, that's fantastic advice. And in terms of. So since the, since the accident, you also have gone off and done Patagonia, Patagon man, haven't you? How was that? Because that's a different type of race to anything else. You've done, isn't it?

Oh, my golly gosh, that's such a hard race. Yeah, I mean, I think I realized I wanted to, you know, I haven't got many years left and I want to be competitive at races and I want to do different races and yeah, this extra, obviously Norseman is. Norseman's a tough one because in the middle of the season there's no prize money. What. And you know, it's such a big commitment, but it just kills you. So there was this race, Patagoman in Chile. Never. I spent a lot of time in Brazil because I raced for a Brazilian team, Team Bravo for many years and I'd raced in South America, all over the place and I love the culture, love the people. So, yeah, we got in contact with the race organizers. Yep. They said, come do the race. And then I realized, looked into more detail and there's no aid stations. It's a point to point, an Ironman point to point. Logistically, the week before I flew on top of the pass, which is 2,000 meters high and we come from sea level and it's not straight up, it's up and down. They had snow, they had a blizzard and I. Oh my gosh, it really is one of those races. But you take a support crew. So I took Gav with me. Gavin Smith, who I grew up with, he's actually for donkeys. He's the head coach at Loughborough University Triathlon and he was Lucy Hall's first coach back in the day when she was just a junior. So he's a great triathlon coach. But yeah, he was on the junior national team with me and yeah, lived in South Africa with me. Great mate. So it was a real, real adventure. We both. He's got three children and I've got two and our wives are great friends. So we've both got the ticket to go for two and a half weeks there. But yeah, I mean, the bike course has. Has about 3 km of gravel sections in various stages. So I'd ridden parts of the course and he gives you aid as and when you need it and has spare wheels for you. The water was 8, 8.8 degrees on race day. It starts.

Which year was this?

This was Patagon, man. 2019. So just before lockdown. Yeah.

And because Flora did. Flora College won the ladies. Yes, didn't she?

Yeah, she smashed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm interviewing her on in two days time, so I'm going to be talking more about it, but yeah.

Oh yeah, she's won lot second At Norseman, she's won Swissman or Swiss Extreme Man a couple of times, but you should see her training. Some she's. She's in Daniela Squad, the Angry Birds, but she does some. Some of. I think. I think in 2020, she did the Swiss man, which is the same style because it wasn't on. I think she did it with some of her friends as a race. Yeah, she's a phenomenal athlete. But, yeah, so I went to do this race and, yeah, it was just. It was just a. An amazing life experience. And to have Gav there the whole way and how the run works is. It's a point to point. And they say it's a marathon, but anyone that's doing it, it is not. It is at least 2km long, I'm telling you now. And that played with my mind so much at the end, as it did with many people. So you do this race and it's like the run is just insane. I think I did 3 hours 46, which everyone was going, that's so fast. I'm like, it's the slowest I've ever run and the longest I'd ever run. And you have an aid station at 10k, 20k and 30k, and that's it. I was running the first 10k. There's about 4k, where I had no idea where I was going. It was a tiny jeep track and it was like, I'm going to fall off the cliff that side. I just hope this is the right one. And every so often when I really doubted myself, I'd see a bit of ticker tape on a bush and I'd go, phew. The right way. But from 30k for the rest, your support crew can run with you. And so Gav ran with me. And like, we had. We had envisions in our mind. I was having a good race, you know, Gav was going to start running with me and I'd be like, oh, this is just like old times. How awesome is this? And anyway, so I filled. I had some Coke. He filled up my bottles for me. I put my. You know, I've got all these bottles and that started running and he started talking to me and I was like, shut up. What? What? I said shut up. You have no idea. I don't think I can finish. He's like, you got a big lead. I go, how big? He goes, well, I can't stand. See anyone. I go, yeah, but it's Iron Man. I'm like, shut up, Gav. Shut up. And I was just like, oh, my gosh. He's like, this is not how I envisioned it. Took about 5k of him running with me before I really could, like, okay, I think I've got enough lead. And I kept on getting him to, because I couldn't really look around genuinely. So he kept, I can't see anyone. Anyway, I crossed the line and I was like, how much is my lead? And I said, no, you got a big lead. And they said the last time check was 60 minutes. I'm like, are you joking? No one had given me that kind of time check because I was so far ahead. They wouldn't wait for the split. So they just say they didn't want to be too complacent. They said, yeah, you had a big lead. You had a big lead. And I ended up winning, I think by 68 minutes. But let me tell you, I pushed to the line. And even though it doesn't look like it, and it was one of those real relief moments. Yeah, I was very happy. Yeah. Crossing the line for that.

Do you think you'll go on and do more of these X Tri events?

100% I did. So I qualified for Norseman, which would have been 2020, and I did accept my spot. I wasn't sure if I was going to do it. And at the end of last year when it looked like we might have had some races, I'd shown interest to do the new one in Nepal as well. And there's also one in Morocco which really, you know, looks interesting. But the problem is, I'm so fortunate. I say I've never had a job because I've done what I've always wanted to do, be a professional athlete. But these races, they're very expensive to get to and whatnot, and they take so much out of you. If I could do like 770 point threes and three extreme triathlons, that would be perfect. But preparing for an Ironman at the level I want to do takes so much out of you. So hopefully I will do some. Yeah. But, yeah, well, we'll see. Let's see what happens.

Fantastic. Now, I know from listening to other podcasts where you're interviewed, you love new products. There's several references to a new pair of goggles or a new pair of train or messing up a new pair of trainers. I remember hearing you say that, so I wanted to. You've mentioned on already, but that doesn't mean you can't kind of come back to them. But what products? Are there any particular products in, you know, whether it's in the swim, bike, run or any anywhere that you think, you know, you really love, that you think have really helped you on this journey.

Well, I've got three products in my house which are under embargo. They haven't been launched yet. I can't talk about those. Oh, I say this but like, and I'm not just saying, this is Zwift. I mean when I was a junior, so back in the 90s, I was at school, so I'd get home from school and it was dark, I couldn't ride outside, so I was on a trainer in my garage. But it was an A frame with a magnetic. I think it was a wind, it was a fan resistance. It cost about £60, which was quite a lot back then, but it was nothing like the road. And like the evolution of like of indoor training is just phenomenal. I think for me that's a massive game changer for as a professional. I mean, you speak to Jan, Lionel, Lucy, these and Patrick, not so much on Zwift, but on other platforms these guys are doing like more than 5% of their training. We do the bare minimum, you know, indoors. I think that's a game changer, you know, for sure. And I mean, 1999, I was training at Alpe d' Huez, so I went to altitude for 98 and it worked. World Junior title. So I went back there and I had a power meter, an SRM power meter back in 1999 from my coach because he was doing a study at Brunel University. So I got to use it again. Power training peaks. These are products which are as a beginner, as an amateur or as someone who wants to be an age group world champion or qualify for Kona. I think they're like amazing stuff. There's also, again, it's hard because these things cost so much money and I'm so fortunate. But there's a new product which I'm hopefully going to try. They just launched in America. So you got the OTG treadmill, I think, I think they're phenomenal, but they're about 30 to 60 grand. So yeah, and they're just not practical for anyone to have. And I think lots of, not some physio practices have them in England and Great Britain, but you've got to. You pay per hour to use them and stuff. But there's this new system come out where you can attach it to your treadmill and it can be a 300 pound treadmill or a 15,000 pound treadmill and it's this Frame that you attach to your treadmill and then it attaches to your waist and it reduces your weight. So anyone that has to cross train, aqua, jog, go on the elliptical trainers, you know, when you're coming back from injury or you're just tired and you want to run, but you want to take the load off, I think that's an amazing investment. So hopefully I'm going to try one of those. Yeah, it's just come to market in the next month or two.

Fantastic. And how has training been for you through lockdown?

Amazing. Flying. No. Let's be honest. Come on.

Yeah.

I mean, look, it's been a nightmare. It's been so hard. I mean, the first lockdown, you know, I was excited at the beginning. I was smashing it out on zwift, on the bike and the run. No one could swim. Couldn't swim, swim. So, yeah, and then, then it kind of like after about three weeks, I was like, no, this is, this. I can't, I can't. There's no goal, there's no, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. What am I doing? And, yeah, it was, it was tough. It was, you know, I kind of kidded myself for four or five weeks of, yeah, we're going to get back to it. And then, you know, obviously, the more, the more real it became, the more I realized. So, yeah, there were definitely some tough days where it was getting motivated because, you know, it's like studying. And again, this is actually happening. I use this analogy, studying for an exam that, you know, is not going to happen. What's the point? I had to know that periodic table like the back of my hand. I have never used that once in my life, you know, and it was like that, why am I doing all this training? But then we could swim. Open water and race hub, which is an open water venue, which is 9 km from my house, they were one of the first ones that could swim legally open with social distancing. And that, that just bought outside, you know, from running and riding and gym and in my garage to being able to do something outside. I could swim five times a week for up to an hour. That really kind of took. That took that weight off my mind so much and it really kind of, yeah, gave me a new lease of life in terms of training. And by then, you know, we could go outside for 60 minutes to do some training so I could ride around my area, I could start running outside. So, yeah, there were tough times. Right now I think we're more prepared for it and obviously with the three vaccinations that have been approved in the United Kingdom, this is definitely a short term and I'm adamant by July, August, September, let's hope we have an Indian summer and we have some great weather because I'm sure there's going to be some races towards the end of the year. And again, I'm so fortunate. Now I'm training with the British Paralympic squad, so I have access to a swimming pool five days a week and I can ride outside on my own. So, yeah, but it is tough, I think homeschooling. I had home school with my wife's a teacher, so we homeschooled our kids as best we could. It's much easier to do a 10 year old than a 5 year old, let me tell you that. They just want to play football outside all the time. But.

But I think one of the. I've said it a few times on this podcast, one of the best positives for me as a result of the lockdowns has been getting more into open water swimming. You know, we were swimming in the River Neen, which has been absolutely brilliant. I didn't go over to Race Hub, but I've got a load of friends that have done and you know, actually I think a lot of people, I certainly will go back and do more open water swimming going forward than just sticking to the swimming pool.

Ah, I couldn't agree with you more. You know, as a professional athlete, most people, the one thing, even Lucy, who loves swimming, the one thing they say when they retire is I probably won't swim again. You know, I might swim on holiday at the beach, but I'll ride and run because it's, you know, mountain bike off road, road and that. But I will swim. I even. We live on, we live on Mount There's a river near us called the River Soar. I was even jumping in that and swimming in that on my own. When we were in lockdown 1 January 2021, I swam at Race Hub in 0.09 degrees. It was under 1 degrees. I got a big cut on my nose because I swam into the ice before we got in. John, who owns it, had to bash the ice with his kayak so to make a channel so we could go like 50 meters out, 50 meters back. But I carried on swimming and I was swimming into all this. Yeah, I think it's really invigorating open water and I think it's a movement, it's happening. It's now, you know, whether it's A sea, a river, a lake or even a Lido. Yeah. I think there are some massive positive things for our community within the endurance world that have come out of it. More people are buying bikes. You cannot buy a time trial bike, you cannot buy a wetsuit, you cannot buy a turbo trainer. It's great for the industry, but people are using them. People are getting outside and getting fit, and that's just brilliant. I love it.

It is fantastic. And it's also, I think, as a community that are running naturally, actively going out and running and cycling and swimming, we've also been in a great position to deal with it better than probably most other communities, because, I mean, I certainly see friends that aren't into this stuff struggling much more. But I'm like, well, I can go for a run, I can go out on the bike. Do you know what? If I've done that, then I'm in a decent place to deal with the chaos that's around me.

Oh. I mean, if your release is going to the pub or going to watch Leicester City play, you're in trouble because you can't do that. And, you know, drinking at home now, you can watch on the television, but you couldn't even watch on the television. No. We're so lucky that, yeah, the great outdoors is free and it's. Well, not if you're in triathlon, because it's an expensive sport. But. Yeah, no, I think. I think I know for my mental health and my family's, you know, they're definitely. Yeah, we do a lot outdoors as a family and. Yeah, that's definitely. We've got a dog, so we in. In lockdown. We go for long walks every day, like at least an hour with the children. My daughter goes running, so we go running with her. Hugo now started to run. He's just turned six. So we take his little bike, leave it at the lamppost, we run up and down the gravel path and come back and. Yeah, no, I think. I think we're fortunate, but. But I do think, you know, it's hard because we, you know, maybe the kind of people that would listen, some of the people who listen to this podcast, we are those overachievers. We do set these lofty goals and, you know, that's. That's where it's been hard for us, is finding. It took us a while, I think, to find the meaning of doing what we're doing. It was always to do this race, to do a time to do something, to show everyone else, as opposed to do it for ourselves. But I think slowly we've changed that around and, you know, hopefully people are more looking at their personal performance as opposed to their personal results. Because you can't control a result, you can't control what someone else is going to do, but you can control what you do. And that is get up, get out. Yeah. Get healthy.

Fantastic. Yeah, that's amazing advice. And you mentioned people having a drink there. I remember seeing on Instagram recently that you were tucking into a bottle of Lucky Saint, my favorite alcohol free beer. I certainly drink a lot of Lucky Saint. In fact, they were kind enough to sponsor some of the early episodes of the Tribathlon podcast. Podcast. So what do you have any particularly quirky approaches to nutrition? Any products that you particularly like? Any as in, you know, whether it be during the race, whether it be pre post race, you know, where do you stand on a nutrition point of view?

I mean. Yeah, I mean, I love, love, love that beer. It's awesome. Yeah, it really, really, really tastes like beer. Not, you know, with the alcohol. Yeah, I mean I'm, when I race, I always use a, like a liquid nutrition. So gels and energy drinks and I've, you know, over the years I've tried many products and you know, I like, if anyone is on the fence or everyone is looking to try something new, I would really recommend Morton. I mean their gels are phenomenal. They, the, it's that they don't, they're not even, they don't even taste like gels in terms of the consistency. Is not a liquid. It's. You've got to, it's like, like a, I know, like a, like a jelly. Like it is like a jelly. But now, again, it's all going back to consistency. You got to look after your health. So, you know, I, yeah, I always take my athletics greens. I'm also sponsored by them. Disclaimer. But you know, you need to get your five a day and the best nutrition is, is, is, is healthy stuff, is a healthy balanced diet. But when you race, train on what you race, don't train on the cheap stuff and then save the expensive stuff the race day, you're going to get stomach problems. It might not work. So, you know, that's, that's one thing I would definitely say, you know, train on what? No race and what you, what you train, you know. Do I drink alcohol? Not so far this year. 13 days in because congratulations. Over Christmas and lockdown, we were, yeah, having too much red wine and champagne, unfortunately. Especially when we couldn't see our families. No, my Family live in Europe and my wife Stanley lived too far away to drive there and back in the day with two young children. So, yeah, we were very excited when we could see them and then obviously, yeah, very, very gutted. But so, yeah, we decided to do a dry January, hence trying the new beer, which was very, very nice. But yeah, I think red wine's very good for the red blood cells, I think. Was it. There's a famous Portuguese cross country runner back in the, I think it was 70s, 80s who used to swear by a glass a day and he was European champion a couple of times. Lopez, I think his name was. Yeah. So, yeah, a little and often. But there's no. I don't have any quirks. I'm not a vegan vegetarian. I love my, my, what's it called? Not my wheat. I'm not dairy free. I've gone through phases and tried everything but come around to a balanced diet. I love my cheeses, but yeah, avoid those when it comes to racing because I put on too much weight.

And with the athletic greens, because I do see you popping up on Instagram again with that product. Is that something you take every day? How do you, you know.

Yeah, so, yeah, like again, you know, very OCD routine. Normally, yeah, wake up. I know, 5, 30, 6 o', clock, just naturally go down. Yeah. It's like 200 mils of water with a scoop of athletic greens. Have that. Yeah. Then have a double espresso. Then I start my day religiously every day. And again, it's just a way of getting lots of minerals, vitamins, everything. 75 naturally sourced ingredients. It is expensive. But again, when we're spending, well, £2,000 on a wheel, 100 pound on a tub, you know, we're spending all this money on that, I think investing in a good multivitamin, something like that. As I've got older, especially now, I take a marine collagen trr, make the product that I use. But, you know, looking after your bones and joints, omega 3, you know, all of these things, you may go, wow, these tablets, Omega 3, the good ones are like, you know, 40 pounds a month. I'm not doing that. That's like not even an arm of a wetsuit. You know, it's not a pair of a funky pair of Oakleys. It's worth investing in yourself. Don't buy an expensive bike without getting a bike fit. Don't buy the Nike, whatever percentage is if you're not running quicker than, I don't know, 320 for a marathon.

Yeah, yeah, no And I think that's, you know, it's really good advice. We had Dan Miller on this podcast who's a nutritionist and he was, he was, he was just talking a lot about the difference between people focus on fitness in the endurance world, but you also got to focus on health as well, which is, you know, and that's where the, you know, the nutrients really become important, isn't it?

Absolutely. I mean, you know, what we do to our bodies is not necessarily healthy, you know, and I'm training 30 hours a week, you know, it's, I can't get enough calories in. It's not healthy. When you're working, you've got a family and you're getting up at 4am and you're running at lunch and doing that evening swim squad. It's, you're pushing your body to the limits and you're only as good as your chassis, your frame and then the engine, you know, and you really have to, yeah, look after that big time and look after your mind. Take a break. Take a proper break at the end of the year, lock that bike away. Forget about triathlon, turn Instagram and Twitter off except for my feed and yeah, just chill out.

And how long a break do you tend to take it at the end of the season?

A normal year, kind of like I take at least two weeks of doing absolutely zero and then probably two to three weeks of. No structured. Normally if I'm, I would swim three times a week. That's the only structure. Just because it's a squad. But mountain bike. I got into my gravel riding a lot lately. I've got an electric gravel bike, the Creole from Specialized, which is just so much fun. I can go further and faster in the same amount of time and have more fun.

Yeah.

And then normally, you know, after so two weeks and then three weeks after about five weeks, then I'm normally craving some form of structure and by then the next year his calendars out. So again I can start this, this plan of my A races and B races and C races and training camp here and there and half term Easter, you know, you're like juggling act but.

But with renewed enthusiasm. Because you've had that break.

No doubt. Absolutely. I mean and first hard session and I go, I don't think I can do what I used to do because I, I'm so unfit. But then again, you know, I love it when people do two weeks training and they're comparing their FTP to the week before their A race. It's like dudes, you need to take like 25% off that if you're a realist. Otherwise you're going to be trained too hard, too early, get injured or get mental fatigue or chronic fatigue. You know, it's here and now. It's important. Not yesterday or tomorrow. Here and now. Yeah.

Amazing. Yeah, very good. And just finally, because you've been very generous with your time, what are you most excited about? Looking to the year ahead.

No. Homeschool? No. What am I most looking forward to? Getting out and racing. I mean, you know, like. Like everyone. No one's been to their office. My. My colleagues, my friends are people I see at the races. I want to go and see them. I want to. I want to see everyone's faces when they're crossing the line, whether it's me winning. Hopefully. No. Or, you know, someone just finishing. Yeah. You want to. In terms of. Yeah. Within the endurance community. Yeah. You want to. You want to see the vaccine kicking in. You want to see. Yeah. Europe, Britain, America sort of stuff out as well, let's be honest. So. Yeah, but definitely from an endurance side. Yeah. I think we will be looking forward to racing in a. In a safe environment, hopefully by the end of summer.

Fantastic. Tim, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you and I've really enjoyed it. You've had an incredible career and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Oh, well, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, cheers, Charlie. Cheers.

I'm sure you'll agree, what an incredible guy and an incredible career so far. If you want to find out more about Tim, then the best place to go is Tim don.com and all the links to his social media stuff are there. So what did you make of that chat with Tim, Sid?

Oh, I mean, I'm a huge fan of Tim Don. I could. I could listen to his interviews all day. I think he's not only just, like an awesome athlete, he's an awesome person. I've, you know, I trained a little bit with Tim over summer last year when I was in the UK in lockdown. He's Mr. Gossip, I will say that. I think he's more gossip than me, which I love. But, you know, I just. He's. He's one of those athletes that I don't think people remember just how incredible he was or is as an athlete. Like his achievements as a junior in the ITU world, you know, the Olympics and then 70.3 and Ironman are amazing and the, you know, one of the best athletes in the world with what he's achieved. And I, I mean, I think what he went through with when he broke his. Broke his back and his neck and he had to wear the halo is just horrific. And I don't think I could ever do it. And so I have even more respect for him for that because it just looked, I mean, not being able to sit, having to sit up in a chair for six months with that contraption drilled into your head anyway. And I just think that we need to remember that actually, whilst that is incredible and it's an amazing story and everything they did around that is. Is fascinating and brilliant. Like, I think he needs to be remembered for who he was as the athlete and what he achieved in triathlon and for the sport and, and his attitude is still going. You know, it was really interesting to hear, like, you talk about will he make it back to the same level and just how he's saying, you know, he's been out, but. And the race has moved on, but he still feels he's got stuff to do. I mean, I also, I love chat, I guess, because I know him a little bit and he did. He spent a lot of time working with Julie Dibbons as a coach and she's obviously my coach, so a lot of that resonated with me and in his approach. And she's like, I've chatted with Julie and I think we mentioned in the last podcast where she's talked about who Tim was as an athlete and how he was so in tune with his body and that was what made him who he was as well. He would back. He would know exactly when to back off so that he avoided injury and, and still got the best, the best out of himself. And then like, you know, he, he talked about goal setting and I, I've. He posted something on Instagram, I can't remember how many months ago, whenever it was. And I snapshoted it because it really resonated with me and it was. Someone once told me not to bite off more than I can chew. I said I'd rather choke on greatness than nibble on mediocrity. And I love that. And it just, it talked to me about Tim and it also like, he, when he was talking about goal setting is like, dream big, set big goals and, you know, go for it kind of thing. And you know, you talked about, yeah, you don't. Then you then break it down. You know, how to eat an elephant, it's one bite at a time kind of thing. Which is another favorite phrase of mine. So, yeah. And he, you Know, and then, and then I also loved it because he talked about the lever. The lever running system, which is the altogether. Personal altogether, which is what I've been using since for coming back from rehab. So I got. They're actually based out of Boulder and I bought one and they shipped it to Spain and that's what I've been using and I brought it over here to the US and been traveling around with it. So it was interesting as well that, you know, he's then. He was then interested in that and you know, that system's been. I will say on that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a selfie. I do have a discount code if anyone would like to buy one. But that's not the reason I was mentioning it. But yeah, just that system is. It's great for rehab, but I think him, for him as well, is also potentially using it to enable him to continue training at the level he wants to and protect himself from injuries going forward. So. Yeah, yeah, I could talk all day about Tim. He's. Or about what you can learn from Tim. He's. He's absolutely brilliant.

He was.

It's just fantastic, wasn't he? I mean, you could tell he just lives and breathes triathlon. He just, you know, he's so passionate about everything that he talks about. It is absolutely brilliant. I. I found him. It just really infectious to chat to and listen to because he was just so passionate about what he did with regards to that discount code. I'll get you to give it to me afterwards and we'll put it in the show notes so that people. If sounds like a flat discount code, they get access to that. But yeah, I thought it was brilliant and I'm, you know, as I said in the interview, I'm big around goal setting, find that to be incredible in terms of what people help, helping people deliver more and yeah, just great understanding how he approaches it because obviously he's coming at it from a completely different angle to somebody like me. I love that quote, you know, much better to choke on greatness than the nibble.

Choke on mediocrity. Rather than. Yeah, not. Not achieve greatness or something.

Yeah, no, absolutely brilliant. So, yeah, I thought he was a fantastic guy. Guy to. To listen to and chat to because, yeah, like you say, you know, many people will know him more from the Halo stuff because that's kind of the big headline, but what he has achieved in his career is absolutely incredible.

Yeah. And I just think like, he. The way he's got about it, he is one of those, he is a, he is one of those ultimate professional athletes kind of thing in, in everything he does. And now he's bringing, he's got kids and a family that he's bringing up while still being that professional athlete and making it work for them. And he, and the way he works with sponsors and you know, his brand and stuff, I just think is, is really impressive and as well as obviously, yeah. His achievements as, as an athlete. I think he's just one of those, you know, we, he joked about it as well of wanting to uphold the male side of the sport in Britain as we have so many sort of British successive coda specifically he was mentioning on the women's side of things. But I really do think he, he, when as and when he retires or moves on to different things, he, his legacy should stand and people should recognize it and what he has done, has done for the sport.

Yeah, no, absolutely. So on that note, until next week, good luck with training in the snow and yeah, I'll look forward to seeing some more skiing photos if you're brave enough to go again. And yeah, so enjoy Boulder. And until the next time, everybody just keep on training. And remember, this podcast is brought to you by Brits Superfoods. You can find out more@britsuperfoods.co.uk but if you use the link in the show notes or you use the referral code of Tribeathlon, you'll get 10% off your orders. You'll get a free bag of juices worth £15 with every order. And those will happen forever as long as you buy from Brits Superfood. Having started with that referral code, you'll get those forever. In addition to that, you'll also benefit from that 110% money back guarantee. So if you don't see the value in it, then, then you can. They'll give you your money back and an extra 10%. So go check out the link in the show notes or go to BritSuperfoods.co.uk and use the referral code Tribe Athletes. And you'll get that 10% off free shipping and free juice on every order. And don't forget to download the Tribathlon app for more amazing podcasts, but also to help you train, compete and to build your tribe.