Marathon Improvements with Jeff Galloway

Foreign.

Tribathlon podcast, finding out how ordinary people do extraordinary things.

The bottom line is the principles of efficient running form for endurance running are staying low to the ground, having a light touch of the foot, not having a long stride and running upright.

That is Olympian running coach and running legend Jeff Galloway. And in this episode, we're talking about marathon improvements. Welcome to the Tribeathlon podcast. So these podcasts aim to get under the skin of some of the most successful people and try and unpick their story, unpick their success, really try and understand, yeah, their story, what, what they've done, how they've got to where they are today. But what were the key turning points? What were their learning points that helped deliver the success that they've had? Because we can all learn from those amazing learning points, and these guys are at the top of their game. So they've got so much wisdom to share. And, you know, that could be in the world of cycling, swimming, running or triathlon. But we've got an amazing array of people lined up for these podcasts. Olympians, professionals, coaches, adventurers, world record holders. People have gone and done something for the first time ever. People have gone something and done the fastest it's ever been done. People have done the furthest things ever. So we're going to be exploring how these guys have done that. Guys and girls have done this and the secrets behind their success now, because Tribathlon is all about bringing people together. If you haven't downloaded the app, it's all about helping you find people to train with, helping you find events to compete in, and helping you find the events where your tribe are competing in. Because we all know if we're training with our tribe or competing against our tribe or with our tribe, then it's so much more fun. So I would love you to help make this a more visual journey on Instagram. So when you're out training with your tribe, whether you're out wild, swimming, cycling in the hills, running on the trails, whether you're on your own or with your tribe, take some photos and share them on Instagram with Tribathlon. And each week, I'll be picking out my favorite photo. And who knows, we might have some prizes from the sponsors in due course for those. So share your photos with your tribe using tribeathlon and I look forward to seeing them. And also, don't forget to download the Tribeathlon app, too. This podcast is brought to you by 33fuel.com. Now, if you're like me, well, when you're doing your endurance sport, you want to avoid those products that look when you look at the ingredients, they look like a chemistry experiment. But it can often be difficult to avoid them and still have the energy for the sport. So 33fuel.com produce an amazing set of products, whether it be gels, bars or powders, but packed full of awesome superfoods so that you can not only get 5 faster and fitter, but you can also get healthier at the same time. If you listen to this podcast, at the end I'll give you a discount code to get a nice saving off your first 33 fuel.com order. So check it out@33fuel.com personally, I absolutely love their products, particularly their Chia Seed Gel. This podcast is also brought to you by the tribathlon app. The best place to find all of the running, swimming, cycling or combination events out there, the best place to find people to train with, and the marrying of the two, helping you find out where your friends are competing so that you can enter the event. Because we all know that if you enter a triathlon that your friends are doing, it's so much more fun than doing one where you know nobody. So go to tribathlon.com download the app and find your next event. So welcome to the first edition of the tribeathlon podcast where we find ordinary people doing extraordinary things. And in the first episode, the I'm really pleased to introduce you to Jeff Galloway. Now, you probably know Jeff Galloway because he's an absolute legend in the world of running, but just in case you don't, he's a former Olympian, he is a running coach, he runs retreats, he runs running shops, probably the first exclusively running shop based in the us Maybe even the entire world. So what he doesn't know about running, it just isn't worth knowing. He's also probably the only person to have a running method named after him in Jeffing, or the Galloway method, which is the run walk run strategy, something I use to incredible effectiveness. Well, for me, during both my first marathon and my marathon at the end of my first Ironman, it really helped me maintain a consistent pace and meant that almost nobody overtook me in the last few miles. So it really has been a huge help to me in this talk with Jeff. It was just absolutely brilliant in that he just didn't hold back on anything. He gave us some really good content on mental training, on some particular techniques to improve your marathon time and things to think about with the run walk run strategy and how you can use that to enhance your time, whether you're trying, trying to go sub 3, sub 4, sub 5, or sub 6. I think there's stuff here for everybody with regards to running. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with the absolute legend that is Jeff Galloway.

And if you want to find out.

More about Jeff, go and have a look@jeffgalloway.com it is an incredible resource for running information.

So welcome to the triathlon podcast. I'm absolutely ecstatic that you've accepted the opportunity to come and chat here, Jeff, because, you know, as I was just telling you now, I think the impact that the run walk, run strategy had on me personally was incredible. You know, I was just coming into. I've been doing triathlons for a couple of years, but I'd set myself the goal of doing Ironman, and I wanted to do a marathon before that because I couldn't face getting off the bike after 112 miles and having to run further than I'd ever run in my life. So I've got to do this marathon. And somebody happened to introduce me to this concept through a Mitch Phillips podcast who kept talking about you. I'd never heard of the Galway method or the run what run strategy, but the research, just as soon as I listened to it, it just seemed to make perfect sense, particularly with the Ironman in mind. And so it made a massive difference. And I can't quite work out whether it was more mental or physical, but we'll come on to talking about that over the course of this podcast. But before we do, do you want to just tell me a little bit about your backstory? How did you get into running? Tell those of the listeners that don't know the Jeff Galloway story and who you are. Tell them about what you do and, and some of, some of the stuff that you do, because it's quite incredible.

Well, unlike most people who end up being Olympians, I didn't show any signs of that. I was a very overweight and lazy kid until I was 13 years old. My dad had been in the US Navy, and I had gone to 13 different schools in my first seven years. The 14th century school required all boys to go out for athletics, and I'd never done that before. I'd never trained for anything. I'd never done any regular exercise before, and that's the reason why I was very overweight. So reality hit and I had to choose a sport. And at this new school, I was hanging around with some of the smart, clever kids. Not because I was smart, but they were funny and they happened to be Runners. And so I, they talked me into going out for cross country during the winter because you. There were some scams you could play on the coach and just tell him that you were gonna jog on the trails in the woods. And all you did is get out to the woods and hang out there. Not really run. But I got caught by one of the older kids and as a result, I joined their group. And it was fun from the beginning, as you find in a lot of running groups. Well, having been the new kid in class for 14 different times, I regularly found it very hard to make friends. And I had instant friends once I joined the cross country runners and we had arguments and so forth, but my grades were terrible. They were absolutely terrible. I was at the bottom of my class. But on these runs, as we argued about things and presented our case, it was obvious that I wasn't any dumber than they were and they were at the top of the class and so reset my expectations. But it also, the running started to get my mind in gear, literally. And when I wrote my book Mental Training, I discovered the reasons why that is true. But to fast forward, I continued to be on high school teams. And then when I went to the university, Wesleyan University, I competed every year and I trained, I worked hard, but I didn't show any signs of making the national level. I just improved a little bit each year. And then at the graduation from Wesleyan University, we had a thing going on at the time called the Vietnam War. And we had a draft in which all males at 18, at first of the year, they would draw birthdays to see who would be selected first to go to Vietnam. And my number was three, so I was going to go. And so I enlisted in the Navy and I served as a naval officer for three years. The first half of that was off the coast of Vietnam and didn't get to run. But during that period, it was very formative for my motivation about running because I seriously didn't have any future that you would think of from what I had done. But I did love running. I love what it did for me. And I also love the idea of trying to improve. And so I decided after I got out of the Navy that I would give the. Give it a shot to try to qualify just to go to the Olympic trials in 1972. I had two years and I applied myself. I joined a new club at the time that became quite formidable, the Florida Track Club. And two of the athletes that had joined just ahead of me were Frank Shorter, who ended up winning the gold medal in the marathon in 1972, and Jack Batchelor, who had actually made our US team in the 5K in the previous Olympics in 1968. But I was able to pick up a lot of things from them and also to travel to national races. And I gradually improved and improved pretty well, Although I still, as the Olympic trials approached, had not qualified in the 10k. I had qualified to get into the marathon trials, which was my best opportunity. And in the last two weeks, there was one more race that gave me a chance to qualify. It was our national championships and I needed a minute and a half personal record and everything hit right. And I had a two minute personal record and qualified for the trials. Unexpectedly, in the trials, it was very high. And of course I had been training in Florida, so I was ready for that. But I knew on this very hot day that I needed to go out conservatively, and I did. I was in last place until the first mile and I just passed one person after another, ended up in second place and very unexpectedly qualified for our Olympic team. But the best thing, the other really good thing that happened during the trials is that my teammate, Jack Bachelor, was disqualified from that race in sort of a very strange situation, a bumping incident during the last few yards of the race, but he was disqualified from the 10K. And so the marathon, which was held one week later in that race, I decided to help Jack qualify. So I paced him and gave him the support that he needed when he was really flagging towards the end and ran with him right to the finish line and then dropped back right at the finish line so he could be the official qualifier. So to help teammate, a good friend, qualify for the Olympic team was just a great thrill and still is in my memory.

So that's fantastic. It's a great, great story. And so did you both end up going to the Olympics on the different disciplines?

That's right. And Frank Shorter did too. Frank was not only in the marathon, but he ended up fifth in the 10K. So he did double duty and ran very well. Now, just to fast forward the rest of my life from that point on, I looked for something that I could do in my career that would allow me to help people with running and fitness. And I wanted to do that right away. And so I kept looking for opportunities and. And one year later, 1973, I opened a running store. It was the first specialty running store in the US and maybe in the universe, because most running stores at that time sold other sports gear too. But I wanted just a running store. And so I did it and my fidipity store is still in operation. It's tough times for running stores now, but out of the running store, starting in 73, I held clinics and educational opportunities and workshops and running groups and then training programs and then running retreats and all of these things block as a result of opening up my store and having people come in saying, why don't you do this and why don't you do that? And I ended up trying them all. But anyway, this continues to this day. We, we now have evolved due to the present situation into doing zoom sessions. For example, I'll be doing a running school, three hour running school this coming Saturday and it will cover all aspects of running, nutrition, motivation, how my method works, how to set up cognitive tools to gain control over your running and also your life. Anyway, it's, it's a wonderful series of feedback messages that I get from the people that attend my sessions. We now have 50, a little over 50 Galloway training programs, mostly in the US. We hope to open some running groups next year in the UK and we're actually working on that. So anyway, in a nutshell, that's my running life.

It's an incredible story, it really is. And we haven't even kind of got into. I know that just looking at website and doing a bit more research on you, we have only just scratched the surface with all of what you've told us already. So the reason I know you is because of this Run Walk Run strategy, which, I mean you, I think you must be the only runner out there that has a running technique named after.

Them, which is, which is brilliant.

And I've heard it called the Galloway Method, but I've also heard it known as Jeffing. I don't know if that is a UK thing or that's a global thing, but it's quite incredible. So tell me about how the Run walk run strategy was born and why you think it's so important today. And do you think it's as important as you did when you first discovered it, or less so?

Well, first let me say that the first known instance of using my name as a verb, as in Jeffing, occurred in the uk. It was a social media group called Run Mummy Run. There were a whole lot of those ladies that discovered my method and it enabled them to run in a lot of cases, in other cases, and enabled them to run faster, avoid injuries. And so they talked about a lot. And then a side group spun off that and it's called Girls that Jeff and they have. I think it's about 15,000 now in that social media group. And they love the method. They talk to one another about the races and what they're doing with it. They have questions. And so I'm looking forward to coming over to the UK and being able to hold some workshops there. But I do get a lot of questions, as you just asked, on how did this method come about? And here's how it did. When I opened my store, from the very first week in 1973, I had people coming in who wanted to start running. I mean, the first running boom is the inspiration is a lot of it in our country is given to Frank Shorter and his winning of the Olympic marathon. But after that you did see a lot more people, every average everyday people coming out and running wherever they were on a track or in a park or in a neighborhood. So one of the customers in my store was in charge of a series of classes for the community, just classes that people could learn things like accounting or motorcycle mechanics or, you know, things like that. And so he said, why don't you teach a course in beginning running? Because he was interested in taking it. And so I said, yeah. And the first class was 22 people. And I had no idea how I was going to deal with these bare beginners because most of them were taking their very first running steps in their life and had no background. Last thing I wanted them to do is to get exhausted or to be injured or to just have a bad experience because I wanted them as customers in my store. And so what I did was have them run around this park where we met. And very quickly I was able to group into three groups because they naturally fell into one of the three groupings. And so every week for 10 weeks, I scheduled it during the week so I could run with every single group. And the benefit to me was the groups were meeting out of my store so we were able to run and I could take a little time off, lock the door and go run. And we very quickly found that some of the members of each group were huffing and puffing. And so I made them, made everybody walk. I used the huff and puff rule, which I still use for beginning group. And the reality is that the respiration rate, in other words huffing and puffing, is directly related to your heart rate. So when, when your heart rate rises, you're going to be huffing. So it's a natural heart monitor that we're using here. But it worked. And at the end of the 10 week class, every one of those beginners ran either a 5k or 10k with. The most amazing thing to me is there were no injuries. I'd never been with a group of 20 or more in which there were no injuries and in over two months. So I knew that this had some merits. So I started using run walk run in a very rudimentary way out of the store and working with beginner groups. And as the years went by, a lot of the beginners, former beginners, found that they were getting faster by using run wall run. So they didn't give it up up and they started beating a lot of the veterans. And some of those former beginners were running quite fast using run walk run. And I was really incredulous this was happening. It just didn't make intuitive sense. It was counterintuitive. So I started studying it from that point. And now we've collected the data from over 500,000 people that have gotten back to me. And this is what really fuels my method. I have averaged over 100 email questions a day for over 30 years. Actually, that's the number of people that actually have gotten back to me over 30 years. And so it's a very large database. And I sort through the returns when people tell me how my advice worked. And this is how I figured out by pace per mile what is the best run, walk, run method to use or strategy to use. That's how it came about. And it continues to evolve, although today because of the data behind it, we see small changes. There are some trends, especially with people that have certain issues. But the run walk run amounts have stayed the same now for about five years or very close to that.

And I think I'm right in saying that you can work out your own run, walk, run strategy on jeffgalloway.com can't you? Isn't there a calculator that does it on based on the Magic Mile?

That is correct. My overall method is much more than just run, walk, run, run, walk run is one of the cognitive components. But a key component of my method is the Magic Mile, which is a time trial that has over 80,000 behind it in terms of people reporting in their fastest Magic Mile time and then their fastest time in other races during the same season. And so out of that data crunching, I'm able to come up with very predictable performance potential that a person would have during the season. It's all cognitive and based on data. And then I can apply the run walk, run amounts and all that. As you say, Charlie is done on the website. You can go to jeffgalloway.com you can go to the Magic Mile section, plug in your magic mile time and then it will tell you what the appropriate run won't run at various paces that you would choose to use. Brilliant.

So what I found really interesting about this, when I because the way you initially describe it or you hear about it, you think this is great for beginners, but then once you get fast, you drop the walking bit. And yet chatting to Mitch Phillips, who I know that you've spoken to, he did a sub 3 hour marathon with the run walk run strategy, refining different times and kind of shortening that. What initially for him was a one minute walk break, shortening it down, which I think is what you tend to prefer nowadays. Do you know what the fastest time recorded using the run walk run strategy.

Is actually the fastest time? I actually recorded that time when I ran my personal record. I started using it myself in most of my runs in 1978 because my times had started to slow down. I was a approaching the age of 35 and I was also heavily involved in my business so I had less time to really train. And anyway, the bottom line is that I entered a marathon, the Houston Tenneco Marathon in 1980 and hit everything just right, but was using run walk run on all of my long runs and had for two years. So I get in this marathon and I'm running very fast. I'm running at my PR pace, but I get to two miles and I really felt I needed a walk break for the first time in my life. I really felt strange about that and I almost felt guilt from felt guilty in running at that pace, which was actually a 2:16 marathon pace. So what I did at the two mile mark there was a water stop. So I pulled off and grabbed a cup of water, took my walk break, threw the water on me and took off again and kept doing that for most of the rest of the race running every two miles. I would pull off to the water stop and then take a walk break. And I ended up with a two minute personal record in that race. And the reason that I did when I analyzed the pacing is that I didn't slow down at the end. And this is what we find with walk breaks at any level. We've had hundreds who have broken three hours by using my run walk run method who could not break 3 hours running non stop. So it works across the board.

And so was your, your fastest time was that 2:16, did you say?

That's correct.

Run, walk, run. That's incredible, isn't it? So roughly how long were you walking? Just literally the length of the, of the water station. So you know, do you know roughly how long that would have been? Every two miles.

Could you repeat that the last part of it? Yes.

Do you know how when you were doing your 2:16 time, how roughly how long were you walking for every two.

Okay. You know, it varied a little and I didn't really look at the watch, but I do remember it very, very well because, because I was self conscious about being seen walking. Even I was when I was running my 216. So it was probably between 10 and 20 seconds. Right.

Okay.

Okay. So really short breaks, but still has, and I can verify it still has a huge benefit. So let's come on to that stigma of. Because this is the bit that I think is almost the most difficult piece of run, walk run. I get that if you're a five hour marathon runner or six hour marathon runner, probably, you know, walking is, is mentally maybe more acceptable. But if you're aiming for a, well, I was aiming for sub four, but you know, if you're aiming for sub three or even something like the times that you're, you're talking about there, you know that, that the stigma of walking after one or two miles, you know, I mean, you set off at a set pace and then, you know, you've got the crowd going, come on mate.

You can do it.

You know, come on, you're going to get there. And you know, thinking this clown has got no chance if he's walking already. How, what tactics have you used to kind of get over that mental stigma at these big events of walking so early on?

Well, I'm totally over that now, but I certainly was not back in 1980 when I ran my. @ 216. I was, I was really self conscious about that and a lot of people are. And my wife and I ran the Boston Marathon together about three years ago and the crowds there are just amazing. And they, they shout, they scream at you. The cumulative feeling of the crowds in Austin Marathon is something like it's their mission to keep you going. And so they're gonna tone up the volume of their shouting because they seem to feel that the louder they shout, the faster you're gonna be able to run or more motivated you're gonna be. But let me tell you, your ears ring for several hours after running that race. And we were finding, just as you surmise, that when we went into walk break, as we walked by the people on one side or the other of the road, they said oh, no, don't walk now. And they were shouting to us and telling us and all that. And, you know, at first we said, look, this is our method. It enables us to run faster. And then they didn't get it. You know, we gave up on it and we just said, this is.

Us. I just took to staring at my watch, as always, if to say, this is part of the strategy, just staring at it. And at least, if nothing else, it took my eyes off everybody kind of shouting at me. But I think it was. It was definitely. And it's also got a bit of a stigma, hasn't it? I remember chatting to somebody. So I was supposed to be doing the London Marathon this year for Sparks Charity, which is a children's charity. And I was chatting to a lady that had run ultramarathons and she'd run marathons, and she said that she was trying to get down to below four hours. And I said, oh, you want to look into this run, walk, run strategy? She said, oh, no, you know, I've completed ultras. I'm perfectly capable of running from start to finish. And I said, well, you. It's not really about that. It's about trying to improve your speed. But she was. She was not having any of it. She didn't like the concept because she felt she was capable of running the whole.

Thing. Well, let me get into that, because. And this is something that I have, that I get into and studied extensively to teach my running schools and my. But the bottom line on how the method is based is that it's really based on our evolutionary heritage. There's a really good book called Story of the Human Body by an evolutionary biologist named Daniel Lieberman. And he cites evidence from anthropology, his discipline, evolutionary biology, that our ancestors survived because they could move forward and solve problems. And he believes that the two are directly related, that the creation of the human brain occurred because our ancestors had a famine and they had to start coming down from the trees and started moving around in order to get the food. And there were a whole set of new problems. And the human brain was created about 6 million years ago by who knows what series of circumstances. But our ancestors mainly walked. And the reason is that the main cause of death, until recently, has been starvation. And the whole gist of moving your feet turned on and still turns on the human brain to start getting ready to solve problems and to find food and to navigate and to do all the things that we do. But because starvation was on the line, they weren't about our ancestors, weren't about to run. I mean, they could run and they ran away from predators and they had a very innovative for its time, hunting strategy called persistence hunt, where they'd run a little bit and walk, run a little bit and walk. But they weren't about to run very much and use up resources that could later be the source of starvation. So they walked everywhere. And we are marvelous endurance walkers. So the bottom line is in running long distances, like a half marathon or a marathon, if you run non stop, be prepared to break something because something will break. The longer you run non stop, the closer you get to injury and it's going to happen. You're also going to use up your muscle resources quick. And this is why people slow down. And we've studied this in a marathon, when you take a person who has run several marathons non stop and then they find the right run, walk, run, there's an average of a 13 minute time improvement when they use run, walk, run. And it's all about having those muscle resources at the end so that you don't slow.

Down. And that is the key, isn't it? I mean, that was the thing I really noticed in the Brighton Marathon was that those last six miles, my pace was pretty much the same as it had been for the entire marathon. Whereas actually everybody else, almost nobody, overtook me for the last six miles. Which I think mentally is why I think mentally is almost as important as it is physically. Because I think. Well, I think there's a lot of mental aspects to it, but I'm going to ask you about that.

Too. There's nothing more powerful or empowering in life than passing people at the end of a long.

Race. Yeah, it is, but I think, you know, that is incredible part, but I think that the mental, you know, certainly in the ironman, you know, at the end of that, when the first few, probably the first 10 miles, I was bouncing along, I'd got loads of energy, I was feeling great. The last six miles were tough and I was having some dark moments. But my saving grace was knowing I wasn't thinking, oh, I've got to run another six miles. I was thinking, oh, only another seven minutes until I could walk again. And that chunking down on it, I think is incredibly powerful and interested to hear your thoughts on the mental side of.

The. The benefits of run, walk, run. Yes, and that gets into another key component of my Galloway method and that is the mental, the cognitive strategies and the mental training that enables you to keep going when you're tired. And so every aspect of my method involves A cognitive tool significance is that we have two different brain operating systems that we use regularly. We have the ancient subconscious monkey brain and then we have the human conscious brain. And we use the ancient brain a lot, mostly actually because it has hardwired behavior patterns embedded in it that keep the blood flowing, the heart running, and all those things that we need to be done below the surface. The problem in allowing the ancient brain to be in control is when there's stress involved. Because whichever brain you empower to conduct your running will determine your motivation. And as you develop more stress on a run, the. If the monkey brain is in control, it's going to trigger the release of negative hormones and anxiety hormones so that you progressively are going to feel less and less motivated. But if you use a strategy such as you're using and saying, I only have 10 more seconds until the walk break, that's a cognitive thought. So that turns on your human brain, it takes over and the hormones are not being, the negative hormones are not going to be produced by the monkey brain, at least for a while. At least while you are running your strategy and activating your human brain. And this is also true about how to set up the pacing and how to set up your training cycle and then how to deal with nutrition. And every aspect of, of what I talk about and teach involves a cognitive strategy so that you can stay in control over your motivation and you can avoid those negative.

Hormones. I think that that's, I think.

That'S really important, isn't.

It? Because you're, I suppose it's like that they took a lot of, if you read up runners, particularly ultra runners, they talk about this final burst, don't they? You know, their brain is kind of saying, no, I'm never going to get through this. I'm going to shut down. I'm not going to get, you know, at mile 30 when it's a 50 mile run, they're already broken and yet they then go and do a personal best for the last five miles because their brain has suddenly gone. I know I've only got X amount left. I can, I can release some more because you know, the monkey brain has been taking over, hasn't it? And you know, I think there's a, there's a big kick around that. But I think the run, walk, run strategy for me was, yeah, it was this mental break about chunking it down, but it was also an opportunity to reflect on what already happened and say, well, am I going too.

Fast? Am I.

Going. It was just that kind of mental log to Kind of keep track of what was going on.

Already. Yeah. Every aspect that you just talked about involves a cognitive thought. And having mantras does that. But even more powerful, there are three mental training methods that you'll find in my books and on my website. The first is mental rehearsal. The second is magic words, which is actually a form of power positive brainwashing. You're brainwashing yourself in a positive way. And then the third is called dirty tricks that you play on your monkey brain. And at the end of a race, for example, I recommend the people that I coach to bring with them a giant invisible rubber band. And if anybody has the audacity to pass them at the end of the race to get out their invisible rubber band and lasso that person with it and so that that person can pull them to the finish line. And then you see, every time you're interacting with something, even if it doesn't make sense like that, if you have a cognitive thought about it, it's going to stop the flow of the negative hormones. And that's the most important thing. The same is true with the drills that we do. We have a cadence drill to improve your cadence, and we have an acceleration glider drill to be able to keep in tone all of your adaptations for faster running. And in doing these drills, you have to turn on your human brain. So even if you're starting to lose your motivation at the end, end of a race, if you throw in a set of four cadence drills, you can go right back in to the control of your human brain and be in control over your motivation for the rest of the.

Race. I think that's really interesting. And so tell me more about this mental reversal thing, because you kind of touched on a dirty trick. I'm assuming the lasso was a dirty trick. But tell me more about the mental.

Reversal. Mental reversal is a psychological technique that's been used for decades. It was one of the very first techniques that sports psychologists latched onto when sports psychology became its own discipline. But the way it works, mental rehearsal, is that you break up what could be a challenging type of experience. You break it up into a series of segments, and you rehearse yourself going through these segments and coming out at the other end having achieved what you wanted to achieve. And the reason why it works, that when people get into a challenging situation and the stress starts building up, at some point the monkey brain is going to start really secreting these negative hormones, and they will stimulate negative thoughts, and people start believing those thoughts and start slowing down. But when you have Prepared for those situations. You have set up a plan for getting through those situations by focusing on each aspect of what you need to do to get through those situations, then you can move from one step to the next and get through it. And because you're activating your human brain and the monkey brain is not secreting those negative.

Hormones. Fantastic. Well, it sounds like I need to read more about that on your website because the whole psychology thing around sport, and particularly endurance sport, I think is absolutely.

Fascinating. Well, the mental. The mental training is the mental training book. My mental training book is the textbook for these methods. And they tell you. The book tells you how to do it. It's really a great.

Resource. Fantastic. I'll be buying a copy of that straight away afterwards because that sounds exactly like the sort of book I need. And coming back to being slightly selfish about this. So I was running a sub 4 hour marathon. I'd probably say at the moment if I was allowed to do a proper marathon, I'd probably be creeping down towards maybe three and a half. What sort of process should I be going through with the run, walk, run strategy to try and refine it to get it down to the perfect split for me, to get me faster.

Still? Well, there are several things in training that you can do. The first one is to have longer long runs. Traditionally, what's the longest long run that you have within the last four weeks before your.

Marathon? Traditionally it would have been about 21.

Miles. Say that again. How.

Long? 21 miles would be what I would.

Do. Well, there's a big chunk of time improvement ahead for you because I found that going up to oh, about 47 kilometer or 29 to 30 miles, bestow over 21 versus 29. Say there's about a 15, there's about a. There's an average of over 20 minutes improvement. Yes, but you have to run those long ones really slow. So you would schedule the last long one three or four weeks before your marathon and then you'd schedule the next to last one three weeks before that. And that would be 3 miles less or 5k less. And then you would subtract 5k progressively backwards towards the present. In other words, once your long runs have reached about 30k, then you can run the long runs every three weeks. So you're only doing these every three weeks and you're running them super slow. But you're gonna get the same benefit, the same endurance that you would even if you walk the whole thing. We, I've coached a lot of people that one reason or another. Had to walk most of their long runs and they ran just as fast as they did when they ran the long runs or they used run, walk, run. So you know, you, you can slow down whatever you want to, and that means that you're going to recover faster from the long runs. So the first thing is to get your long one up there around 29 to 30 miles. The second thing is to do 1 mile repetitions. And I found that building up to 14 of those 1 mile repetitions has been sort of a magic formula for about 10 to 12 minutes of time improvement. So there's another chunk of time that you have brilliant possibilities of.

Improving. So talk me through that last one. Sorry, Just to be clear, what would that, what would that look like at.

14? So the way you do this workout is, let's say that you ran a long run one weekend, the next weekend you would do 1 mile repetitions. And so the way that workout goes is you do a warm up, then you would run a mile 30 seconds faster than you want to run in the race itself and you would walk for three to five minutes and then run another mile. The first workout would be four of those and you would add two additional on each mile. Repeat workout, going through the season, building up to 14 mile repeats two weeks before the marathon.

Itself. And so if you're doing a long run every three weeks, you'd be doing this on the two other weeks, is that.

Right? No, you just do it on the weekend after the long run, the.

Weekend after the long.

Run. And the third weekend would be a mileage, oh, let's say 5 miles, 8k with a magic.

Mile. Right, okay. And then you use that magic mile to set your pace going.

Forward. That is.

Correct. Fantastic. That's brilliant advice for me and all of the listeners because I think that there's so much, there's so much noise in this area trying to find the right things. I mean, I think, you know, I don't, I think it's the first time I've heard anybody say that you should be running 29 miles prior to running your marathon race at 26.

Miles.

So. But I can actually understand the logic in it because I would think again, that's partly a physical thing, but it's also partly a mental thing, isn't.

It? Well, it's, it's all tied together, especially when you go that long, because you have to discover how to deal with the physical adversity. And of course that's going to stimulate the monkey brain to try to come in there and secrete negative hormones. So then you have to figure out the mental strategies and like I say, all about having the right cognitive strategy for you. And I do have a lot of those displayed in my mental training.

Book. Fantastic. That's brilliant. And I suppose coming on to some other questions, you know, this is absolutely brilliant advice. What's the worst advice you hear people given and where does it tend to come.

From? What areas would you like to go into? Because there are a whole lot of different areas we could.

Cover. Well, I mean, I suppose maybe equipment or maybe running technique or, you know, something like.

That. In terms of form, running form. I have studied that for a very, very long time and looked into the research. And the bottom line is the principles of efficient running form for endurance running are staying low to the ground, having a light touch of the foot, not having a long stride, and running upright. So those in a nutshell are what good running form principles. The way to really develop those. Well, the best way I found is to do drills. And the two drills that I have developed over the years with great success among tens of thousands of runners who've wanted to run faster have been my cadence drill and the acceleration glider drill. They're simple drills. In the cadence drill, you're timing yourself for 15 to 30 seconds and you're during that. And by the way, if you don't have one of my beeping timers, Charlie, you need to get one of them rather than look at your watch all the time. They're only US$20 and they beep and or vibrate to tell you when to take your walk, break and so forth. But in the case of a cadence drill, they're really invaluable because when it beeps, you start counting how many times you're touching on one foot or the other and then until it beeps again. And then you walk for 30 seconds and do another one. And each one, four to eight of them in a row. Your mission is to get at least one more cadence count in there. And if you do this drill once or twice a week for six months, you're going to be a more efficient runner and you're actually going to run a little faster because you are more efficient when you run. The other drill is the acceleration glider drill, which brings you through a series evolutionary form adjustments. You start with a walk break of five to seven steps and you ease into a little shuffle for five to seven steps. Then you ease into a slow jog for five to seven steps followed by a regular pace that you would run on, say, an Average run for five to seven steps and then you go into a acceleration for five to seven steps. It's not a sprint, but it's, it's faster than you normally would run. And then you go into the glide which is coasting off your momentum. And you can coast as long as you want to and you want to try to develop the ability to coast longer and longer as the months go by. And then you ease into a shuffle and ease into a walk. So everything is transitional, which is the way it should be when you're using run, walk, Run. And you teach yourself how to do this by doing the acceleration glider.

Drill. That sounds brilliant. I've got more research to do on your website as well. So what about with regards to nutrition? What do you think is good advice with regards to nutrition and what do you think with regards to what there's.

We. I usually would defer in sessions to our registered dietitian that we have as our chief consultant there. And her name is Carissa Galloway. She is actually my daughter in law, but she's an excellent registered dietitian and a marathoner and she really goes into these details. She's actually going to be conducting some one hour workshops starting this weekend on Saturday and Sunday and going into various aspects of nutrition. So I really defer to her. But I will give you some advice because I've done a lot of research on what to eat and drink leading up to a long run, on a long run or during a race and then afterwards. And so here's what I've discovered based not only on research, but on working with tens of thousands of people that I've coached and getting a suitable eating formula for those time periods. The day before, most people are able to eat a somewhat normal breakfast and lunch. After lunch you start cutting down on total quantity of food and you avoid anything that could possibly be problematic. The next day. You want to drink about 250 or so milliliters of of water around eight times a day. The day before, you just want to keep drinking throughout the day and you want to avoid salty food and you certainly do not want to eat a very large meal in the evening because too much loading can lead to unloading during the run itself. Now, the next day, the morning before the long run, your time to sort of train yourself for what's going to work for you. Race morning and what I've discovered is that most of the people I've worked with who have been having problems have had to adjust and they find that they don't need to Eat anything. As soon as you wake up on race morning, I recommend drinking a glass of water or if you'd like, if you're like me and like coffee, your cup of coffee and that's it. Because if you drink more than that, you're gonna have to spend some time on the course in one of the toilets. So, you know, drink right away. But I recommend that be it. And in terms of eating something, again, most people don't need to eat anything. But if you do need to eat for any reason whatsoever, make it something that's going to digest easily and you can test those things out before long runs during your season. During the race itself, every 3 to 4k, I recommend. 60 to 120 milliliters of water and 30 to 40 calories of sugar. And you just keep that going from every three to four kilometers all the way through until you don't need it anymore. But that's going to keep your blood sugar level boosted for the average person. But as you try this formula out on long runs, you'll discover whether you might need a little more less. Whatever works for you is what you.

Need. Fantastic. And you mentioned coffee. Do you use caffeine strategically or do you just enjoy your coffee? I know some people use it quite strategically in their.

Running. Well, I started drinking coffee relating to running because of the research that shows better performance as a result. There are a number of different studies but it is well documented that caffeine will improve endurance.

Performance.

And. But do you have a particular strategy with your caffeine or is it just a cup of coffee beforehand and that's you done or are you dropping in caffeine on the course of the run or anything like.

That? Actually, when I was running at the world class level, I used what a lot of my fellow marathoners were using and that's D fizzed Coca Cola. So flat Coca Cola, non carbonated and I still use that. So I'm getting a little bit of caffeine, but it's mainly the sugar and the water. And so my wife and I under normal times for the last 10 years have been averaging a marathon almost every month. So I can carry two bottles of Defis Coca Cola with me and some shorts I have that have big pockets and I don't even have to stop at water stations because I'm drinking enough water in that Coca.

Cola. Brilliant, brilliant. And tell me about these retreats because I'm not sure whether it's the retreats that are coming to the UK or it's something else. That's coming, coming to the uk, But I'd love to know what it, what it's like to be on one of your retreats, you know, what sort of a typical day look like and what are you bringing to the.

Uk? Well, we would really like to eventually have a retreat. They're wonderful sessions. Just imagine what runners are like. You like to be around them. Well, it's even better during weekends because you can really get to know people really well and share the wonderful thing that we have in running. And people tell stories, they really unveil their belief structures and it's good, it's good stuff. It's just really a chance to learn. I do the teaching mostly in some of the retreats. I will bring in other speakers, but it's a chance then to establish a coaching relationship with me. So the after retreat formula is that if you have any questions, I'm going to give you my direct email address so that you can email me there. It's just our best friends, Barb and I have met our best friends at the retreats and others who come tell us that.

Too. Brilliant. I think you know, I know you from listening to you on other podcasts, but you also touched on it a few times today. The tribe of people around you when you're running, the people that you meet. Running for me, because it's such a solitary sport for a lot of people actually, the people that you meet through it and you know, people even got you into running. It's such an important part of it, isn't it? I mean, how. Tell me a little bit about that element of.

It. Well, in the research that I did for my mental training book, I had to take six months off to do that research because there was so much and it was an overwhelming task at first, but I found some key people that I relied on and then some key sources. My wife Barbara had been doing a lot of reading in that beforehand, so she was extremely helpful in being able to lead me in the right direction to these folks. Now the, the concept of personality change is based on human adaptation to behaviors that enhance our survival. And running was one of them. I mean, walking was the basic generic form of exercise that our ancestors did. But running enabled our ancestors to run down game at a very crucial period of our evolution. So running became embedded in the brain is something that activated all the brain circuits to the highest levels. And it still does that. Even in short segments of running. It does that. But running has now been shown based on research that didn't really start coming out until the 1990s when Safe Brain scanning devices were developed. But running has been shown to turn on circuits of the brain for a better attitude, for more vitality, and for personal empowerment. Better than anything that's ever been studied before. And when you run regularly, your brain has changed in certain areas of the brain for better empathy, for better bonding with people. One of the things that runners say universally, and I've traveled all over the world and, and talk to runners about what they love about running most, but one of the ones at the top of the list around the world is the ability to really connect with people when you're on a run. Well, anthropologists say that this ensured survival. And so our brains got wired to enable us to trust someone who we were in proximity with, covering long distances together and solving problems together. And there's nothing that does that better in today's day and age than running. But of course, under this current situation, social distancing. But we do know that brains are changed through regular exercise, and running does that as good or better than other exercises. So we. And another way of putting it, because one doctor described it this way, said that once he discovered the road race circuit, he just was hooked primarily on how marvelous these runners were. You run with them and you support one another, you pull one another along and then you talk about all these things and afterwards, and you may tell some lies, but the point is that we share a wonderful thing together. And he said, but, you know, he has known people before they started running, and then he's followed him 10 years later, 20 years later. And he says, before running, a lot of these runners weren't nice people. And running does change people.

Documented. I think you're absolutely right. And I think it's a great way to communicate with, to get to know somebody. I know Steve Jobs was very famous for when he wanted to have a business chat with somebody, they'd go out for a walk. I find that if I want to plan a keynote speech or something like a book, actually it's just a brilliant way of processing your thoughts. You just think on the move, even better than I think a lot while I'm on the bike. But even better, when you're running, you seem to be able to process your thoughts and kind of organize them better. So I absolutely agree with.

That. I think it's. Oh, yes, the research is quite clear and actually a very good resource. If you haven't read it, is a book called Spark by Dr. John Rady. And in Spark, he delineates the brain circuits that are turned on the brain hormones that are released. And he explains it in a way that. That we can understand. It's really a very powerful book. But he does talk about the rewiring that is done. And so that's another great.

Resource. Fantastic. Another one to my reading list is expanding rapidly, I suppose. Finally, because you've been extremely generous, your time. You've done all of these amazing things and we haven't even had a chance to talk about Rundisney. You've got all of these. These retreats, this coaching, these techniques, your shot, your Olympic performance, all of these incredible things. Two more questions. What's the highlight so far and what excites you going.

Forward? Well, the highlight so far is I revisit my highlight every day because of the approximately 100 people that I interact with and they have problems. My highlight is that I'm able to solve practically every single one of those problems. And they are so appreciative and they tell me the stories about how this has opened up things for them and not only in running, but in life itself. And it just doesn't get any better than that. I mean, it doesn't. A little side note on the Disney races, and we're very looking forward to those coming back. They had to suspend the Star wars last month. But the bottom line is that I'm at all of the Disney World races and I'm at my booth. We have the pace groups at the Disney Run Disney races and people come by one after another. They're three or four thousand individuals through the weekend. You know, they're telling me things, they're asking me questions. And the fun. One of the most gratifying comments is they'll look at me and they'll say, jeff, you're my favorite Disney character. And there are a lot of other wonderful side notes there to any race, but Disney really does it right. They really.

Do. Because I've never heard of Rundisney. It's not because I suppose in the UK kind of it hasn't really. Well, I haven't seen it mentioned over here, so I thought it was a fascinating.

Idea. Yes. And ongoing. I actually am beginning to see that there is a whole new way to be able to realize my mission. And my mission in life is to help people improve the quality of their life through fitness, running and nutrition. And I have done that ever since I opened my store. That's what started me on this quest. But because I have been forced to do my workshops with this wonderful zoom platform, I am very much looking forward to this and being able to reach out to a lot more people than we have. We will still hold the retreats, which are just absolutely delightful. And I'm sure that I will still go to events, but I am actually hoping that I will no longer be on the road the 70% of the time that I used to be on the road before all of this thing happened. But I really appreciate your attention to runners and exercisers because you're making a difference and if I can ever help you again, Charlie, please let me.

Know. Well, you've been incredibly generous. You've got so many brilliant insights, so many brilliant stories. You know, we've only just really scratched the surface, but it's been an absolute pleasure finding out more. I'm guessing that the best place for people to go to find out more information on you is jeffgalloway.com and I 1 would love to know if you do bring some of your events to the uk. I'd love to be involved and I'm extremely grateful. So thank you very.

Much. Well, I will keep you posted on our visit to the UK when things start opening up again and I feel certain that that will happen next year or the.

Era. Fantastic. Well, I look forward to hearing more about it. Thank you very.

Much. I hope you've enjoyed the first episode in the series of Tribeathlon podcast. Got some incredible people lined up, whether it be world record holders, professional athletes. People have gone long, people have gone fast and really I've been able to try and pick apart the secrets behind their success. So please follow us, whether it be in itunes and podcasts or whatever it is. Follow the podcast wherever you've listened to this and please do come back for more. There's going to be so much more content around the running, cycling, swimming and triathlon world helping understand people, people's stories and the success behind those stories. And also don't forget to share your photos while you're out training or competing on Instagram with Tribeathlon and we'll be looking out for those in due course. Don't Forget to check out 33fuel.com if you want to get faster than fitter and healthier through their incredibly high quality, health conscious, endurance nutrition. And if you use the discount code TA33 you'll be able to get a 10% discount. So that's capital T, capital A33 the numbers. And you'll get a 10% discount off your order@33fuel.com you won't be disappointed. And don't forget to download the Tribathlon app for more amazing podcasts, but also to help you train, compete, and to build your tribe.