Part 1 - Self Discovery Through Challenge: Success in Rugby and Ultra Marathons

Foreign.

I'm Charlie Redding.

And I'm Claire Fudge.

Welcome to the business of endurance.

I wasn't managed very well as a, as a youngster, but also I didn't take enough responsibility and if we're in a state of stress all the time, it's going to be really difficult for us to recover.

Today we have the incredibly inspiring guest whose journey from professional rugby to ultra running is nothing short of remarkable. Joining us is Lewis Robling, a former professional rugby player who has made a name for himself in the world of endurance sport. So Lewis's story is a testament to the power of resilience and the human spirit. After an incredibly impressive career in rugby, although one that he doesn't think he maximized to his full potential, he transitioned into ultra running where he not only found a new passion, but also a new purpose. His ultra running journey, which began by accident during lockdown, has led him to complete some of the most grueling races imaginable, including 125 kilometer ultra with just four weeks of preparation and then going on to complete five 250 kilometer ultras in just 12 months. But Lewis's story is about much more than just physical endurance. He's a strong advocate for mental health and we go into this in quite a lot of detail. Over the course of the podcast, he has done a huge amount of work supporting the Big Moose charity who we interviewed on episode one of this season's podcast, Jeff and Chloe. But he's also a beneficiary of their work and he's now using his platform to raise awareness about the importance of mental well being. His belief in the transformative power of running for mental health and his personal experiences in this area offer some incredibly valuable insights. This episode was so good and this interview was so good with so much value that we decided to break it into two parts. So this episode is part one and you will get huge amount from this. But if you're enjoying it, make sure you come back for part two next week because there's a huge amount of inspiring stuff in that part too. So I know you're going to love this episode with Lewis Robling. So Lewis, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast. Really looking forward to chatting to you. I know we're going to have loads to talk about and, and we've got multiple sports to talk about today, which I love when we can bring in some different sports, particularly as one of my favorite sports is rugby. So we're going to start with your incredible rugby career. Tell us a little bit about how you became a professional rugby player. But also I'd love to know what your most inspiring or memorable story is from your time playing rugby.

Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me feel very privileged to be speaking to you both today. So thank you. Rugby. Okay, so I started playing rugby when I was about 8 years old in school. I was a footballer through and through until maybe 14 years old. And at 8 years old, I remember kicking a rugby ball over the posts from about 20 meters away. And one of the older kids or one of the teachers was, like, amazed that I could do this at such a young age, which ultimately inspired me. If you're good at something, you're likely to do it. So I started kicking the ball a bit more often and started playing rugby. And that was very, very young. I'm a Welshy and I was in junior school and in comprehensive school. And for whatever reason, my school didn't have a rugby team.

Madness.

Especially in Wales. So I started playing again when I was 14. My cousin, who we all lived in a local village in Killian, he started playing for the local team along with all of the other guys that were playing football. So I started playing club rugby when I was 14 years old and realized very quickly we had a great team. We had a really skillful team. They were amazing. From the age of 15 to 16, we didn't. We didn't lose a game for two years. Partly down to the players, but also we had the best coach. It's worth probably mentioning this. I look back at why I started playing rugby, and he was a big, big part of why I continued. And it was down to his ability to manage players like individually. And he used to give me an imaginary key before every single game. I used to play outside off. And he'd come up to me before the game and put his hand in his pocket, open up his hand, there'd be nothing in it, like, right, Lou, here's the key to the game. Because playing outside half field, the one that calls the shots, and it's like, look, this is your key. Whatever you see goes like. You call the shots, you do whatever you need to. And then at the end of the game, you give that key back to me and it's like empowering me as a young individual. And. And I forgot that. But anyway, from 1516, we're a winning team. And I got picked up by the local region, the Dragons. And because I was good at it and I worked hard and I was committed, I kind of went from step to step throughout the the academy system. Playing for my first year at Senior Rugby at 17 years old with Newbridge and then my next year at Newport RFC and then finally I think had my first professional appearance when I was 19. My most inspiring story is both inspiring for me but also quite a funny story. It was the under 20s, it was the Wales in the 20s World cup and I was, I'm the same age of the era of like your George Ford's, your Orin Farrell. So when we played against England under 18, under 20s, it was, it was a star studded team like Oren Farrell, George Ford, Christian Wade was on one wing, Manu Tuolagi was on the other wing. The Winnipola brothers were in the pack. It was unbelievable. And when we're in the World Cup, I mean playing for your country in itself is an awe inspiring moment. It was everything that you wanted to be as a, as a young kid and I was so lucky to have that experience. We played our first game against Argentina. So there's kind of two parts to this. Our first games against Argentina was my first time playing for the 20s in the world cup and I had the best game. I had an amazing game. We won, we beat Argentina 3412 and New Zealand were also in our group. And the next game was against New Zealand and again this team, you'll know the names. Bowdoin, Barrett, Gareth. Anscombe, Lima, Sopawanga, Naholo, Whitelock, TJ Pernara. All of these guys are in the starting lineup who are now like the Kiwi starting 15 and have been for the last five, six years. And they wanted to make a statement because they saw we had a good Welsh team and we had some amazing players. Liam Williams was in the starting team and stuff like that. Like we had a fantastic team and, and they came out second game of the group stage and I've never been so in awe of a team in my life. We lost 92 nil. To this day that is the greatest defeat in age grade rugby or in, in, in any World cup competition to this day that is still the greatest defeat and the best part of it. I had a good game. I actually had a good game. I mean but anyway that's probably my most inspirational moment from a just an experience perspective. Singing the Welsh national anthem, watching the baby blacks do the hacker and ultimately getting beat 92 nil. That's rugby for you.

Sticking with your rugby career, do you think you reached the potential or the level that you wanted to before you exited your rugby career for a long.

Time this has been a hard thing for me to talk about because the short answer is no. I don't think I ever really reached the potential that I had as a rugby player, which took a lot of forgiving. From 19 to 22, I was playing. I mean, I have 45 appearances for the Dragons, playing on television once a week. We're traveling all over the over Europe, playing in Italy, playing in Scotland, in Ireland, playing against some of the best players in the world. And I was a young 19, 20, 21 year old and took me a long time to accept that I wasn't managed very well. There's one side of it I wasn't managed very well as a youngster, but also I didn't take enough responsibility. And that was the, the kind of feeling that I had. And I wish I did this, I wish I did that. Looking back, there's so many things I would have done differently. Conversations I should have had, times I should have stood up for myself in training. But ultimately I need to use that as, as a bit of a fuel to move forward.

If that was related to partly how you were managed as a youngster, now that you're a coach, what are you doing based on that? Learning to help the people that you coach?

This is not really something I've thought about in this context. If I'm totally honest. I think subconsciously maybe I'm coaching because of that. But ultimately when I do coach and an athlete comes to me and says that I want to achieve X, everything that I do is in their best interest. Every decision I make, every question I ask them and everything I ask of them, every time I listen to what they're saying, everything is in their best interest. And I'm ultimately helping them achieve whatever they set out to achieve. That's important is driven by them. It's important that I don't drive that. It has to come from the individual.

Really interesting. And you know, the way maybe now that you coach based on that as well is interesting. So I guess the big question is why the transition from rugby into ultra running and how did you get into it? Did you fall into it or was it plans?

I've never been very good at planning ahead because I've always ever been used to playing the next game, the next week, the next or the next season because our contracts were only ever one year, two years, so I never really, really allowed myself to think too far ahead as a rugby player, which again maybe is a something I should have done. How did I fall into it? My last game of rugby was in March 2020 and we lost 40 nil to Newcastle Falcons. The week later, Covid happened. So the few years leading up to that, I'd kind of been looking for a way out at this point. I'd had a nasty concussion when I was 26 years old. I couldn't see single vision for two months and it took a while for me to get back and make a full recovery, which I did. And I continued to play after that. But I think that changed me and I think that was the, the point in my career where I was like, well actually no, I need to look at a way out now, understand how I can get out the sport because it's not going to last forever and I'm not, I'm not really serving myself because I'm not earning enough money to really save because I was playing in the championship at that point, still professional, but we just. The money wasn't there in the sport. So when lockdown came around, that was kind of the sign. That was the universe telling me, okay, this is your opportunity. This, this is, this is the time to take the leap. It's a running theme with so many people's running stories. Everyone started running in Covid and the same, it was the same for me at first. I used it because there was nothing else to do. We were allowed to go outside once a day and running was the only thing that I could really do. And I was so used to training twice, three times a day anyway, that without that I was getting really stressed and anxious and worked up. So without having any awareness of what was going on with my mental health at the time, because I don't think I ever really, I don't think I knew what mental health was at that point. And I started enjoying it very, very quickly. I think that feeling of progress, that feel it, feeling of improving or something is something that we all crave that, that it's getting better. And that's something that I've always, always kind of loved, especially as a professional athlete. And it's something I've been conditioned to do, always, always improve. So that, that was a really nice feeling which kept me going back to it. And then a friend of mine who you know very well, who's been on the podcast, Jeff Smith, one of the most incredible human beings just ever and he has such a huge part to play in who I am today, especially these last four or five years. But he ran the Goggins 4448 and I took inspiration from him. He told me that I should have A go at it and do it myself, which I did. I planned everything out. And I actually bought David Goggins book as well. And that was my first introduction to this world of kind of ultramarathons and what that was and his idea and his story of suffering and overcoming adversity. And I'm reading these things and I'm thinking I'm feeling these ways a little bit as well, so maybe I can do something like this. And I think his story, not that I could relate to what he'd actually been through in his own story, but I could relate to the feelings he was feeling and. And I could see how he'd overcame these things. And it really inspired me. And also that David Goggins challenge, it was a sad time because Steph, she was meant to run the London Marathon. Steph's my partner and she was meant to run the London Marathon that April, so. And her granddad was suffering from Alzheimer's and she was meant to run the marathon for Alzheimer's research as a way to kind of give back to them and him, sadly, he died before the marathon even took place. And the marathon was obviously postponed the year after eventually, so she couldn't run it. And I thought, well, maybe I can do something here. Maybe I'm living in their house, I'm living with Steph and her parents that we decided to bubble together. So maybe I can do something to give back. And the 4,000, 448 fit that bill. And we ended up raising £10,000 in two days. The feeling is hard to describe. The way I did it was I went to Alzheimer's directly and asked them for 12 different stories of different people that I could run for in each of these 12 runs. Each of these 12 four milers. And every four mile run I shared a story on social media. So this runs for this person, shared the video of their story and asked for donations and repeated it. I was very meticulous with the planning for this. And it's funny, really, it was my first experience at 1 at any type of running challenge. And looking back the way I prepared for it, for the first time in my life, it was the most myself I'd ever felt without even knowing that it was feeling like myself. And so the feeling afterwards, I remember it was one of the most rewarding feelings I've really felt. Like that sense of accomplishment that I could do more than I thought I could. The fact I was running for something bigger than me, it wasn't just about me. It was for a purpose bigger than myself. That was really the spark. That was the spark that was about to light fire and that's how it all started.

And also within that, I mean there's so many brilliant lessons from what you've just described, particularly around finding that passion, but also the power of you using stories. Those stories would have been what made raising that money a phenomenal amount of money in a short period of time so effective because the connection to the stories is so powerful. How why did you then end up in 125 kilometer ultramarathon with next to no preparation? Tell us how that evolved and why you thought it was a good idea and why it was transformational.

Absolute chance. I'd put myself out there with the. It's a little bit woo woo. But have you guys read the Secret? Your. Your vibe attracts your tribe. It's the law of attraction. Like the energy that you put into the universe is the energy you get in return. And I feel like that's the first time I'd really kind of understood what that really meant because a couple of later I'd obviously done this thing with and put it out to the universe on social media. Steph's friend Hannah, who I didn't know at the time, but she worked for a company called Ultra X and Ultra X are a, an ultramarathon company and they had multiple races throughout the year all over the world. They were short on a few spaces to UltraX England and Hannah had seen that I'd done this 4448 for Alzheimer's, like for Steph's granddad. And she messaged Stephen, Hey Steph, does Lou fancy a challenge? One of the greatest motivators is for someone to like challenge you to do something. Having four and a half weeks to do it was also, that was exciting me even more because it was like no one's gonna think and it takes the pressure off. Even if I fail at this point, no one's gonna expect me to finish it. So when I do finish it, it's gonna make it even better. So I had this huge opportunity to go and prove myself wrong and prove the world wrong around me. Not that it should be external, but I think it was for me because I'd always been the eldest of like cousins and I'd, I'd always been the high achiever. I was always the best at everything and I get a kid so like as a being a 28 year old bloke with like from the outside looking in, everything's going well, but really behind the Curtain. I was struggling. I was in so much debt because of this business. I wasn't earning any money. I was really struggling. And this was a facade as well. It was a chance for me to put another layer of protection around me so people wouldn't see me for who I really am. And I went out and I made sure I finished it. Day one was an absolute disaster. 75 kilometers, two and a half thousand meters of elevation. Even though it was a disaster and I couldn't keep any food down, it was not good. And I think I lost about five kilos in two days. It was that bad. I couldn't. I couldn't take anything in. There was this relentless pursuit that there was almost like a possession within me that I had to. I had to finish. I had to prove to myself that I was good enough, I could finish, I could do hard things. The other part of why this race was so profound for me is that even though I was in more pain than I ever felt before, and I continued to move without pain, I didn't know we were able to manage that much pain and keep moving forward. I tore my calf on day one, and I ran the second day with a torn calf. But I'd never felt so much kind of joy at the same time. I remember getting to the top of these peaks in the Peak District on a beautiful day and looking around and thinking, look at where I am. I am so lucky that I get to do this. And there was these two contrasting feelings of managing all this discomfort, and then these pockets of elation. I feel like I learned more in those two days about myself than I had done in 10 years as a professional athlete. That was. That's the kind of tagline that I've used a few times, and it couldn't be more true. The kicker to this is that, yes, I had this incredible experience. I proved so many things to myself. I proved that I was capable. Yet when I came back home and I sat at my desk the next day, what a change. Nothing had changed. I'd ran a race like, well done. You've completed 125km, but what have you actually done about your life? Nothing. And that. I didn't. I. I didn't know then what to do with these feelings. I didn't know how to. To deal with, or like, I'd just done this amazing thing, yet I'm. I feel even worse about myself. I've just proved I can do these things, yet nothing's changed. What does that say about me? And so the. The first time I finished an ultramarathon. I was kind of lost in that period after a race because I, I didn't have the tools to be able to use what I just learned and apply it. And that's where things got a little bit low to the point where I then needed to reach out for help. And I'm just so grateful that Big Moose, Big Moose, the charity that Jeff Smith and Chloe run were there to pick me up. That was probably the hardest thing.

Lewis has just been talking about his awful consequences of not being able to keep down any fluids or nutrition during one of his first ultra runs. And of course, over that distance, it's super important that you can keep hydrated and really well fueled. So if you find that you're really struggling with your nutrition over long distances or perhaps in hot environments or when the environment changes quite a bit and you're suffering with lots of different types of GI distress, then if you click on the link in the show notes below, you can book a free discovery call with me and we can have a chat about how I might be able to best help you with your GI distress so that you can have a great strong race.

You talk about this like, euphoria of being towards the end of the ultra and at the end of the ultra and then the post race blues of like the days afterwards, which anyone that's run an ultra will be probably aware of. How do those highs and lows compare to when you were playing rugby? And how have you, now that you've done many more ultras, how have you learned to anticipate the highs and the lows and deal with them better?

I suppose the easiest way I can describe it is that in a game of rugby you could have the best game of your life, but you can still lose and you could have the worst game and still win. And that's the beauty of playing a team sport. It's a very different feeling. Whereas with ultramarathons you're the only one responsible as to whether you win or lose. Like whether you succeed or fail, whether you, like no one else is going to run for you. You train for so long, like rugby, you've got a chance to get over it. Next week you've got a chance to play again if you're lucky to be selected, like, there's always opportunities in the next session. You've always got a chance to prove yourself. Whereas with ultramarathons, a minimum six months prep with some of these races and that's six months of hard work of showing up every day when you don't want to, running in the rain, running in the dark, strength training when you don't want to, running on tired legs, eating when you don't like, there's so much more adversity that you need to overco, even get to the start line. That when you win and when you finish and when that race goes well, that feeling is the accumulation of those six months of training. So, like, the feeling is so much bigger, so much more special. That's kind of the best way I could describe it. And the second part of your question, how to deal with it. Every single race, you're going to be confronted with different challenges. The terrain is never the same, the weather is never the same, the distances are never the same. And from year to year, even if you run in the same race, they can be completely different. Anything can happen. Like your gut on one day might be great, the next day might be horrendous. And there's no reason to explain why. So what that does is that every race you're going to be learning new lessons. You're going to be acquiring new skills and those new skills and new lessons that you learn. If you can reflect and think about what you've learned and try to apply those in a way moving forward, not only do you learn in training, but how do they apply to life situations? So how does your ability to sustain that level of effort up a really long hill, not push too hard, but push hard enough that you're being efficient? How does that then apply to working? For example, when I ran a 250k race in Sri Lanka a couple of years ago, it was 39 degrees, 100% humidity. It was five days, and it was incredible for the rawness of it. But there is no way to describe running in that heat in those temperatures. What can you use from these ultramarathons to upskill how you live? That's the, that's the beauty of it. And I think that's what the key message is moving forward is once you've raced and once you've had an amazing experience or a negative one, there is no negative experience. If you can learn from it because it's experience, if you can use that in a way that can apply to work or to apply to life and relationships in any way that you can, then you've won. I think that's the key message that I would try and tell people.

I love that answer. Especially what can you use from those lows or those things that. The challenges that faced you and how you bring that into life and working life and home life. After this very kind of short space like 4 week prep for the, for these challenges, why then move to doing the 5 times? Was it 250k that you ended up doing? So, so why that kind of next sort of big step?

The September 2020 was my first experience and that I felt like I'd opened my eyes to a new world and I loved it. So even though it broke me in every single way, I didn't run for eight weeks afterwards. I, I knew there and then that I wanted this to be a part of my life because of what I gained from it. And ultimately after that event I reached out for help with, with Big Moose and I realized, well, with that help then help me reframe how I wanted to use ultramarathons. Moving forward, I knew my life wasn't in a great state. So with the support of the therapist Graham from Big Moose, I was able to reframe how I saw ultra running. And instead of running away because that's ultimately what I was doing with running all that time, I had no awareness as to why I was doing it. But what the therapy helped me do was was gain that self awareness and realize actually I've been running away from these feelings. So how can I use running something that I know that I've always loved and exercise and movement, how can I use it to move towards these challenges? How can I use running as a way to learn more about myself instead of trying to turn down the noise on these voices? So ultimately 2021 became a year for me. I had the opportunity to run another 125k in Scotland with UltraX in the May. And then I, I ran my first 250k race in Wales in the August and that was the first time UltraX were doing a, a race in Wales and they asked me to be a part of it because I'm a Welsh and whatnot. And that was, that was a really special race as well. That was kind of the, in my career, quote unquote as an Ultra runner that I no longer felt the need to prove myself to anyone. And also what was happening alongside that with the therapy, with the running, this, this new mindset towards how it can help me. Opportunities were arising in life. I got a job working for a different company. I was doing my ultra running qualifications and I went to Ultra X because they were there for me as well throughout the whole time. And I said to them has anyone ever ran all 5 of your 250k races before? And they said no, that's silly. Why would anyone want to do that? And I thought I said something like can I try? I explained I was doing it for big moves and it was all going to be for charity and I wanted to, wanted to raise 25000 pound which is probably why they agreed to, to kindly give me the race entries. So the journey started to run all five 250ks, which I had no, I had no idea whether I was going to be able to accomplish or not. I mean I believed in myself I think as a, as a professional rugby player I've always had that, that a deep sense of self belief in that I can do these things. A lot of the time was just getting out my own way for various reasons. And so the first one was in Sri Lanka, second was in Slovenia. August was Wales times two or mark two in October on my birthday it was Jordan in the desert and then the last one was going to be in Mexico in the Copper Canyons. Avida v Red Born to run. Yes the Mexico race in the Copper Canyons the year before in 2021. And ultimately that's how, that's how the 5, 250s were born was a reason, a way for me to raise money for Big Moose again. And ultimately it went really well until Mexico was cancelled.

For those that don't know the story, tell us what happened next. So you're not the sort of person that's going to go, oh well, it's canceled, we'll have to settle at 4 then.

I wasn't, thankfully no. And I think I'd also, at this point, I'd invested so much time, so much money, so much of my life into raising this money early and for this challenge for bigamy. So and for me like this, I'd be dishonest to say that it wasn't for me as well, it was so transformative, which is probably too long to explain now but ultimately, eight weeks before the last race of the year, we just finished Ultrex Wales, which was 34 degrees in Snowdonia for five days, which was absolutely horrendous. Finished that and eight weeks before Mexico it was cancelled, which is a really hard email to read because everything was riding on the fact that Mexico was the big one and we had a load of friends running it like Leon was going to run it. Really good friend of mine, Leon Bustin, who's a lovely guy, you'd love him, very, very accomplish ultra runner as well. And coach Renee McGregor was running it. A sports dietitian who you may know as well. And we were going to all join forces and raise money for Big Moose together because everyone had been touched by Big Moose in a particular way. So when it was canceled, I was like, well, what now? Like what can we do? And I remember making a phone call to Steph actually and I told her I was pretty gutted on the phone. I was explaining what's happened. I got to give the credit because she was the one that said, well, why don't you just put on your own? And I don't even think I answered her question. I think I just put the phone straight down. And I got on the phone to Rini straight away and I said, rini, what do you think? Like, should we do this? And she agreed straight away. And I think even if it hadn't worked out the way it was going to work out, there was never any chance that I wasn't going to run the 250k because at the start of the year I set up to run 52 50s even if it meant running loops around my garden. I was going to do the 5 250ks. But learning from the 4448 challenge and learning from how, how bringing people together when magic happened. But with the 4448 it was because I encouraged people to run virtually as well. I had a few people like I FaceTimed and people were running all over, which is probably how it raised so much money and awareness as well. So learning from the 4448 was that, right, let's get people together and try and make this a community challenge. But let's not make it a race, let's just make it 250k. So we started doing our research. Found really had a friend who owned a campsite in Bradford and Avon. Campwell Farm, brilliant place. They now have saunas and ice bar. So I'd highly recommend going to have a look at it it but we called him up and, and he said, oh well look, it's in November, first week of November in the uk, the campsite shut. But we're happy to open it for you if you respect the campsite. Yeah, sure, no problem. Could you just pay for the. If you just rented the main cabin, you can have the site. I was like, great, okay, just pay for that, get it done. And then I, I asked Instagram for help. And after asking for help, 17 runners signed up to do to run the 250k. 40 of them. I knew 60%. I had no idea who they were. They just wanted to Support and get involved with this challenge for Big Moose. How do we make this as simple as possible? Rini's partner, Ewan. We went and recce two different loops. One was 15k and one was 18k. And we decided that day one, three and five, we'd run the 15k loop three times. And day two and four, we'd run the 18k loop three times to make up the distance. So runners were just having to run the same loop day after day after day after day. And it was the best decision we could have made made because we started the race as a team. And every lap you came back to that same happy, supportive environment where it was safe and, and each lap when you chose to go out, you knew it was coming. Yeah, you were willing to go out and face that same thing again, which, which is kind of poetic because our mental health, it's the same that comes up over and over and over again. Like it's the same stuff that I'm having to deal with when I go back to therapy now. That came up two years ago. Yeah, it just comes up in a slightly different form. We have to repeatedly go back. So kind of the analogy of. Or the, the, the way I kind of thought about it was like, well, every time that you're in a loop, you get kind of physically weaker and weaker and weaker and less capable of overcoming it, yet every time you become stronger, more resilient mentally because even though you're weaker physically, you're choosing to go back and overcome that same obstacle from a place of weakness every single time. So you're, you're just getting stronger and stronger. And we ended up raising 22, 000 pound that week, which is a crazy number. No one wanted to leave. I've never seen more tape, more people in pain, more blisters. People were sleeping outside, it was pissing down with rain. I mean, it was the first week of November in the uk, yet no one wanted to leave because the environment was just so special. We were there for something bigger than ourselves and we ended up calling the week why We Run. This came to us after the event. The values are kind of decided on this purpose. Beyond yourself. Power in human connection, the pursuit past physical and mental limits and together as one. And those four ingredients created this, this really special environment. Makes you realize what's important in life.

This interview with Lewis Robling was so brilliant, so much inspiration there, so many brilliant stories, but also so many lessons that we can take away away from it that we concluded that we'd be better to Break this into two parts. So for Claire and my kind of post interview analysis you need to go and listen to part two which will release a week after part one and then you'll have our outro talking about the incredible inspiring journey and lessons that Lewis can share with us. So go check out part two for the rest of this interview and also for Claire and my's kind of post interview analysis of what we think we could take from the lessons of the incredible Lewis Robling, Jeff and Chloe from Big Moose Charity we featured in Episode 1 of Season 7 made such a great impact on the both of us we decided to make them our charity sponsor for season seven. Now they really touched me in the sense that I lost my brother in law to suicide in Wales and these guys are working their socks off to help prevent situations like that. Claire, why did Geoff and Chloe really make an impact on you?

Coming from a background in clinical nutrition and working in mental health, to me also it hit a spot in terms of the charity and how they are building therapy to help support people with mental health difficulties and They've saved over 50 lives now and already met their first target of a million and their new target 15 million that they're trying to get to.

It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a huge target they've set themselves but they're speeding up help that people in desperately in need get and this help is needed more than ever. And I know how problematic mental health issues are in today's world. So if you think you can help Big Moves Charity and they're particularly looking for corporates partners partners to help them raise that 15 million. If you think you can help them or link them into a company that can help them, the best place to go to is Big Moose Charity Co or you can find them on Instagram as Big Moose Charity or you can even email Jeff at jeff big moose.co.