The Journey of Endurance: From Running Marathons to Building Community with Nick Butter

Foreign.

I'm Charlie Redding.

And I'm Claire Fudge.

Welcome to the business of endurance.

You have to have total blind faith. You know, I knew I was going to run a marathon in every country in the world before I knew how many countries there were. I went deaf at one point because of apart from all the other other injuries I had, I went deaf because of the wind. Without platforms like this, I wouldn't be able to tell the story. So thank you too.

In this captivating episode, we're thrilled to welcome Nick Butter, a name synonymous with extraordinary endurance, resilience and philanthropy. A British endurance athlete, speaker and best selling author, Nick's remarkable journey through the world of endurance running is nothing short of inspiring. With 11 world records, four world football bursts, and the unprecedented achievement of running a marathon in every country on the globe in a mere 674 days. And by the way, I think there's 190 countries. Nick's Adventures speak volumes about the power of the human spirit and determination beyond the miles. His contribution extends to raising 2.5 million pounds for charity and founding the 196 foundation, showcasing his commitment to making a significant impact on beyond the finish line. Nick's story is a testament to the synergy of endurance, charity and community. Join us as we dive into the essence of endurance, explore the landscapes of adventure and discovery, and uncover the business acumen that propels such monumental achievements. So I know you are going to love this episode with Nick Butter.

So before we dive into the next exciting episode with Nick Butter, I want to just let you know that if you stay around to the end, I've got a really interesting download for you to have all around your mood armor. So stick around to find out what mood armor is.

So Nick, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast. Really looking forward to chatting to you today. And I always love to start with the story, but the story behind how you got into running, because I think you had an early start in running from what I understand. So tell us all of that story. Tell us how you started.

Yeah, sure, yeah. Thank you very much for having me on. Yeah, I guess everybody gets into running and without expecting to run lots of marathons and all over the world. Yeah, I grew up in the countryside and I wasn't a million miles away from everywhere, but it was far enough to need a decent run. I would cycle to school, which was 10 miles each way, so there was a bit of base endurance in there. And then in middle school there was an opportunity to do a team event, a team marathon, of which There were five teams of five and none of my mates turned up. So I stomped my feet a little bit and decided to beg my parents and my teachers because they were all supported because, you know, I was pretty young, I was 11, wanting to do this, this marathon and they agreed. I now in hindsight realize they agreed, thinking I would bail out after about eight or nine miles and that would be that. But I didn't. And I, there was plenty of tears and it was a traumatic event, but not, not too traumatic that I was, I was put off. So that was, that was great. And truthfully, I didn't do too much running as, you know, running, as we think about running. I was just kind of compute, commuting to my mates, you know, jog down the road for a few miles, cycled to school and back. And then, then it got serious into sport when I, I went into joining the GP ski team and did some ski racing, which was not running, but he was totally everything that I would set my mind on for sport. And then that opened the floodgates to realizing what sport could do later down the line.

So where was it that you really found your love for running and what really, what got you into it? Obviously, in a big way later on?

I think, I think the love for running in hindsight came from not just being outdoors and my roots of being living by the coast and living in the countryside, needing to be out in the fresh air. But the honest answer is as a therapy and an antidote for office city life needing to have the balance, the equilibrium. And at the time you don't realize that's what it is. You just go, oh, I need to get out and do some, do something. Or, you know, I don't, I don't think, oh, I'm going to go and run because my, my brain needs it. I do now, and everyone around me knows when I need it. But at the time it was, you know, let's, let's do some. I did some cycling, played squash, played tennis. It's a bit of running and then the running took over. And I think, I think I fell in love with running because not only is the ease and the simplicity, the lovely camaraderie of events and it's taken off. And I mean, I guess every generation says this, but it just keeps increasing the amount of races, the amount of events, the amount of sporting groups there are in the running world. I got hooked, I think, on the, oh, I can run a bit quicker or I can run a bit further or I'm going to Go and do that event because such and such said that was quite good. And then before you know it, you've done several marathons and then you're into double and triple figures. And then you're, you're realizing all your annual leave is going on, going to some races, bar afield, and then you're begging your boss for extra time off. And then before you know it, you quit your job and run around the world.

I guess, I mean, you're right. It's clearly got completely out of hand, doesn't it?

A little.

But when, when you were kind of building that running out. I mean, I think it's a, it's a lovely. I think so many people get into running or endurance sport as an antidote of the office. But what, when you think back to that time, what was the one sort of, you know, event, race, whatever it was thing that you built up to, you think, right, okay, that was the, that was really the tipping point. That's where it went from I'm doing a bit of this to I'm going all in. I, I know I've, I've fallen for it.

Yeah. I suppose there was two key points. One was the moment that I realized maybe running could be more than a hobby. Maybe I could, even if I wasn't going to earn much, maybe I would earn enough, or at the worst, maybe it would be a long, very poor gap year and I would go back to, you know, a late gap year and I'd go back to work in another time. And so there was that, that pivot. And that was the moment of entering a few events and doing quite well and then having some conversations with some, some bigger brands. And that was quite out of the blue and before the world of social media and influencers, really. Well, definitely it was before that. And I thought, okay, go run with the. And it was, it was Red Bull. The first conversation I had and I ended up having to say no to them because I was working because I had to say no. I've got on the annual leave. Sorry. That was opportunities running around in the, in the Caribbean, which was, you know, hard to say no to. But that, that, that was the. Certainly a tipping point. And that sparked the. Hang on a minute, this doesn't feel right. Why am I in a smoggy city commuting, doing a job which pays me well, but I don't hate it, but I am not following my passion. And then I did finally pluck up enough courage to go and reduce hours and have a bit of a sabbatical and time away. And I trained for a race, marathon de Saab mds out in the Sahara.

That race has a lot to answer for. I think that gets mentioned a lot of times in the first part of people's transition.

It does. It had an awful lot to answer for in honesty. I went into that race wanting to do, I wanted to finish top 20, I wanted to, I wanted to give it a good bash, I wanted to feel like I did it well. But truthfully, I, I really wasn't expecting to come away with the life changing, you know, how can a race just do that? And having finished the race, it didn't feel like that, it didn't feel like I'd, I, I'd come away with a life changing moment, but it absolutely was because it sparked so many things. I met some key characters in the middle of the Sahara desert that would change the course of my psyche and my aptitude towards the world and sport. And two of those people, I mean, if anybody doesn't know MDS marathon, the Saab, you've got, you know, thousand people out in camel hair, bivouacs, living, living under the stars for a week, running in 50 degree heat. And you, you make friends quickly because you're all suffering and supporting each other, sharing food, you know, scraping sand out of each other's pop cultures, that kind of thing. Yeah, you certainly get to know each other. Two figures. One was a lovely guy called Jeff Smith, who, to be honest, every one of my seven other tent mate was exceptional in their own right in every way. And I'm still in contact with all of them. That says it, that says it all. But two particular Jeff, I was on the, on the bus to him. There's a six hour bus journey into the desert to start this race and he's telling me how much mountaineering he's done. He's since summited Everest and he's a fantastic guy, has a great charity called Big Moose in Cardiff. And I'm actually going and doing a speaking event with him in a few days and he just gave me, I think that little bit more of a, I heard the analogy of a cliff edge because nobody just decided to go and do running just on a whim. You always have to just keep being pushed towards that cliff edge. And he was just one big shove towards that edge of changing the course of my career and my life. And then the big moment, which was the over the edge of the cliff moment, was meeting Kevin, Kevin Webber, diagnosed with terminal prostate cancer at 49, complete stranger to me when I was running in the desert with him. And as you do, you chat. Where are you from? What do you do? What do you do for a living? What are your goals? Why are you here? And then he drops the bombshell that he's potentially only got two years to live. And it was this horrible yet fascinating conversation. And the attitude of this disconnect between the fact that he was incredibly bubbly, happy, smiley guy telling me that he was dying. And that disconnect was quite profound because he was doing what he loved. And he said to me, nick, whatever you do, don't wait for a diagnosis. Don't wait for something to happen in your world, for you to give you the kick to do what you want. And I said, well, I kind of have really. I've said goodbye to my job, more or less, and I'm doing this event, I'm here with you and I'm giving it a good go. But he said, yeah, well, what could you do? What would you do if you could do anything in the world? And it was that I felt quite embarrassed because I didn't know the answer, this dying man asking me this question. And I felt really foolish to go, well, I'm half your age and you're right, I don't know, I should be to know that answer. And finished the race. Had a horrible race. I was suffered. And I got back home and started to Google a few things that I wanted to raise some money for prostate cancer UK to help other people that had cancer in his position. And I, I decided to Google has anybody run a marathon in every country in the world? And that, that was the, that was the moment. And I think as soon as you realize nobody has, and then everybody that knows me will know I'm very much all or nothing beyond belief. I'm all or nothing in every way. And I just, at that moment I thought, yeah, I'm going to do that. And I sat my parents down and, and said, my brother as well, actually. I said, I think I'm going to do this. I'm going to run a mountain in every country in the world. And they said, well, how many countries are there? I said, I don't know, but I'm going to go do it. And it was that moment they knew I was deadly serious. And they also knew that I had no idea how to do it, but it would be achieved. And I think, I genuinely think in that moment, they knew it would happen. We just knew that it was a long road to get there. And that was the start of two years of planning to try and set this record, do something that nobody'd done, raise a load of money for charity, of which were up to around 2 million pounds overall for various different causes. And it sparked you. My own running business, my own charity, numerous other world records, and. And obviously I had an absolute blast in the meantime. It wasn't without its struggles, but it was that conversation with Kath that started it all.

It's an absolutely brilliant story. So I can liken this one of the stories I've told a bit since I had Mark Beaumont on the podcast. When he sunk around the world. Yeah, when he did it unsupported, and then he went back and did it supported. Absolutely brilliant stories. What was amazing was the fact that both times he said, I'm going to come in at this time and finish it this time. You know, when that was 80 days and he came in in 78 and a half days, you think, well, okay, there was more planning, there was more precision with that. But when it was unsupported, he still came in unbelievably close to the number of days he set out at the outset. Now, I know you work with Laura Penhall, didn't you? Who's. Who's. Absolutely. She's also been on the podcast, and she's absolutely brilliant. But you set yourself, I believe, am I right in saying you set yourself the challenge of finishing in Athens. You absolutely had to hit the final finish. With the benefit of hindsight, would you still have done it that way and did that just create even more pressure than you needed, or was that the perfect way to finish it and therefore that's what actually set it off is.

Similar to quitting your job. You have to. And to then start a business or to be a runner or whatever it may be, you have to say goodbye to something that feels safe before you do something all in on the other thing. And I think that's the same with these hard deadlines. We did have an initial target when we were in the planning stages in the first nine, maybe 10 months of the. Maybe even 11 months of the planning phases, we were set on 550 days. And 550 days felt like enough wriggle room for maybe we can then get to Athens on time. And, you know, that's a good several, you know, another hundred days on top of that, giving us wiggle room. And then as we went through further planning, we realized that it really was going to be quite tight to do that, but why not go for it? You know, it's not the end of the world if we don't go for that. But it gave us the impetus and the. I guess the. The power to have some really powerful conversations with others to say, look, Athens Marathon isn't moving. I need to get my Iran visa now. And I'm very fortunate that I was kept at arm's length for a lot of those final few months of the conversations. And the more countries I did and the closer I got to the finish line, I understood the world more. My perception and my whole psyche of how I saw the world, people, everything changed and was continuing to change. But then equally, the stress of knowing that my deadline was rising and we didn't have access to countries, I was getting various different injuries. I was having all sorts. And that was. That didn't go away. That was. That was very nervy towards the end. And as per the book is in the book, anybody that was very close to the project knows truly how lucky we were to get that deadline because it didn't look like it for many reasons.

Knowing what you know now and how the world is now, and ultimately the world is probably a safer place as a whole than it was when you did it. But there's different conflicts and different problems now. But knowing what you know now, do you think you could still set out at the start of that journey with the confidence you could do what you achieved?

If I had the blind faith. And I think anybody that's doing anything, you know, rowing, whatever it may be, rowing an ocean, etc. Etc. You have to have total blind faith. You know, I knew I was going to run a marathon in every country in the world before I knew how many countries there were. And I think that's it. And I think there just has to be this. I don't know what it is. Stubbornness, selfishness, certainly, actually, because there's a lot of that that goes into it. And I think, I'm sure that's come up in many conversations. You have to have that element, just sheer determination and stubbornness. A lot of it. You know, we talk about resilience and psychological endurance, but truthfully, it's just not wanting it to slip through your fingers and appreciating how much. How much you can achieve if it happens. So would I. You know, the thought of if you said to me, go and do it now, A, I would need a lot of money, which we've spent now, B, I would be aware of all the issues I had, and I think I would go into it excited, but certainly more fearful because I was. I was Going into it, completely ignorant in many ways. A lot of the risks and a lot of things that happened could have gone the other way. So I would, I would of course say, yes, I want to do it, but there are, yeah, there are things in the back of my mind that I think I would rather not be in that position again. And I think I got away with that. And have I used all of my, my nine lives? Probably.

I know you had lots of incidents with animals and muggings and, and all sorts of different things, but what was your scariest moment of that whole trip?

The scariest moment comes when I'm being pulled out of the car at a checkpoint about 1 o' clock in the morning, sorry, a border between Oman and Yemen. I'm about five, maybe eight countries from the end, something like that. Very close to the end of the trip. I'm physically weak. I'm a little bit, let's say emotionally run down because of all of the stresses, the, the finances, the lack of food. And I'm very much in my groove because I'm over 650 days into a trip. But at this border, finding out while I'm being pulled out by these military men with guns, pitch black camels roaming around, middle of the desert trying to get into Yemen, and the driver is smuggling drugs and counterfeit goods into the country and using me as a mule. And I'm being pulled out, not having any idea what is about to be unboxed in the back of the truck and thinking, oh, it'll be okay. And then you realize that the, the voices get louder, the shouts are getting louder, the dogs are barking louder, everyone's getting a bit more aggressive and you'd face down on the floor and you realize what's happening and you think, I've come this far, I've dodged a lot of bullets, sometimes literally. Has my luck run out? Am I just going to be thrown into a cell? And okay, I have faith that I will probably return home at some point, but how long will I be in that cell for? I didn't fear for my life at that point. I just feared that there would be long diplomatic conversations to get me out of that situation, of which obviously there is no embassy in Yemen. So that was, that was scary because it really, it's probably been one of the only moments where I truly felt out of contact with everybody. My sat phone wasn't working. There was no cell signal. I couldn't understand the language. And I felt, yeah, you know what, Nick, you, your luck's run out. Every time something. And there was just so many instances of that was close.

Did you have somebody with you each. Because I know. My understanding is you did this alone, solo, is that correct? Yeah. And so my understanding was that you had somebody in sort of each country or each area as a contact.

Yes. Most of the time there was a fixer. There was a somebody on the. On the inside that would arrange stuff. That being a physical person wasn't always the case. And sometimes they were just a cab driver with a name, sometimes they were a UN official, sometimes there were a hotel receptionist, sometimes they were a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend. Sometimes it's very loose, sometimes it's very organized. There was always one pager in my calendar that had things like risks, we ragged red amber greened every country, you know, contact details, emergency details, what kind of visas, what passport I had to use to get in, what passport I had to use when I was leaving to go somewhere else. All of that was in this one page app. But seeing a name, you know, Jo Bloggs, this is my person. You don't know who that person's going to be. You don't know the extent of their English. You don't know the extent of how well they've been briefed. Were they to the project 20 minutes before, before I was landing or were they always involved? And have they. You know, so that was. Yeah, that was unknown. And as it happened, this person was. Yeah, it was exactly that. It was contact of a. Contact of a.

And did you. With your each run that you did, how well was that planned? Like, did you plan it around sort of having some big sort of place that you wanted to go and see in that country? I mean, maybe some of the countries you didn't know at the beginning what you might see. But how did you plan those runs? Were they things that could kind of when you were really tired, thinking, actually this is going to be in the most amazing run because I'm going to go and see something. So how did you plan that?

Yeah, so first of all, I wanted to avoid doing lots of official marathons because I'd done a lot before, before I left, I'd done something like 400 and something. And I thought, I don't want to go and do that. And equally, we couldn't afford the time, the budget in terms of time. If I was to add an extra day to each country, that's an extra nine months, you know, of getting a bib of turning up to an expo. And I didn't have Energy to push through crowds and get my, you know, no thanks. So although I did quite a few, probably about 20% of the countries were official marathons and I had to have some people with me for witnesses. So there was always, always some contact to have as a witness or to at least find other people to do the language that they could be a witness for, for Guinness World Records and stuff. But in terms of the planning of the routes, it was honestly something I didn't really think about because I knew I'd done it so many times I could just rock up to a country and I would go and run the countries that were marked as red. And you know, I would, for example, running in Mogadishu, let's make sure I'm going to be running in the right place. And so I was put up in a lovely UN place and I had people support. But from about almost Guatemala onwards, really around that time, probably let's say marathon 15, country 15, that kind of time, the press and mainstream press more than social media really got a hold of it. And because I was doing interviews in every country, the neighboring countries were hearing about it. And then that was when press started to increase. So I went from running with maybe four or five people to running with a thousand people in El Salvador, for example, after only a few weeks being on the road. So I fortunately didn't have to think much after the first couple of weeks, barring the, the semi untouristy places.

So Nick, on his fantastic adventures that he's just described, and he's also described his mental health throughout that journey and him finding that actually he was coping and dealing with his mental health throughout. And mood can have dramatic impact on what we choose to eat. And what we choose to eat can have a dramatic impact on our mood, on our mental health and on our rates of depression.

Foreign.

Experience like this, there must be so many things that stand out. The people, the scenery, the cultures, the highs and the lows. What was the most transformative experience of that?

I think it was a combination of the first word that comes to mind is, is obviously in privilege. And I think when we use the word, if I say poverty, I think people think of people washing in streams in Africa and they're poor. But actually there's a lot of parts of the world where poverty exists where that isn't the case. And feeling my outrageous, embarrassingly so outrageous privilege to be in places, chat with people that don't have a lot. And when I say don't have a lot, I'm not talking about Things, food or shelter. I'm talking about opportunity, freedoms, even just the chance to dream of going to every country. You know, the chance to dream of leaving their own country. That's just, you know, there's something like there's a similar number of the amount of people that run a marathon in the world. We're Talking about under 1% people run a marathon. Under 1%, the population of Earth have left their own country. And I'm going to every country. And so there was this weird, quite emotionally torn thing within me that the more I did, the more privileged I felt and the more embarrassed I was to do something. And I had this kind of moral conflict internally of, okay, I'm doing this for charity. I know it's the right reasons. I'm living by Kev's counsel of doing what I love and witnessing things, and I'm going to share this and I'm going to show people how brilliant the world is. But equally, who am I to do all of this? And obviously, I have made peace with it, and of course, I carried on and continued, but I did feel guilt, I did feel almost shame of doing so much when other people had so little. So I think, truthfully, that's one of the big overarching feelings. And the other thing was quite how my perception of a place didn't match up with my experience. And sometimes that's vast. You know, I. I was terrified of going and running in Damascus for obvious reasons. And when I got there, I played Football with the Under 19s, National Female Football team, trained with them, and their coach was a guy called Bob from Yorkshire. You know, that gives you an understanding of quite the difference of perceptions. And then little things, you know, going to the Bahamas and not expecting torrential rain, of which I got, you know, those, you know, each end of the spectrum. But whatever happened, my experience was different to what I was expecting.

And so you go from running a marathon in every country of the world to 100 marathons in 100 days to take you from the top to the very bottom of the Italy. And this was all during lockdown, essentially, wasn't it? Yeah, the timing was incredible. So tell us a little bit about that whole experience, not just from a running point of view, but, you know, because of the timing. Was there animosity? Was it. You know, it must have been a very different experience because of the timing.

And.

And also, what was your greatest lesson learned as a result of that particular.

Yeah, yeah, Italy was a remarkable trip because it was, again, one country that wasn't, you Know I wasn't hopping from lots of places. I was living out of a van. It was in the time of COVID Now I was in all honesty willing to bend some Covid rules during, during this, this mission to top to bottom of Italy. But we didn't end up needing to because we got very, very lucky with the timings. We went over and the country was green. It opened up. This was in after Italy had opened up. And we would travel down, zigzagging our way down through Italy. Me plodding along on my, my slow marathons every day incredibly beautiful. Had an amazing time and the regions behind us were slowly locking up. Got to the bottom, finished, had a few hiccups along the way. Finished the finished the marathon southern end of Sicily, finished the trip and everything went green. And we drove up from the south of Sicily all the way to the French Alps in 24 hours. Didn't show a passport, didn't show a vaccine, anything at all. And then lockdown happened and we got stuck in the Alps for three months which was absolutely wonderful. So incredibly, incredibly lucky for that period of time.

So then you take it to another extreme again and come back to the UK and 200 marathons in 128 days. Now Claire and I have run two marathons in a day around in the part what's called the Ark 50 in Cornwall. But to do it day after day after is absolutely ridiculous.

Accrued for the Ark recently, by the way, the hundred did you actually. Fantastic weather this year for the Ark. But yes, anyway.

So how was that different physically as a challenge to the other things you've done?

Totally different. Just focusing on the physical element. If you think about running the world which was 196 marathons in 674 days and during Britain was 200 marathons in four months in 28 days. Physically I went from 11 and a half percent body fat to 2.8 and I was eating around 8,000 calories a day. I was sleeping for a good five and a half hours. I would eat for about 40 minutes at the end of the day and the rest was running or faffing frankly. It was on average just over 12 hours a day running. The weather was brutal. I went deaf at one point because of apart from all the other other injuries I had, I went deaf because of the wind. And we had horrendous wind on the east coast. And my very good friend Andy, who needs as much credit and as his name up in lights, he made everything possible. He was driving in my support van. He cooked my meals, he woke me up in the morning, he tucked me in at night. Literally. He did everything for me on the road and he managed to fashion. We tried earplugs. We tried everything. Because this wind noise. Two and a half weeks on the east coast, horrendously strong winds. I had a news article pop up on that day that he made these. These things to go over my ears that. That popped up, that said it was the biggest day in British history for wind energy. And I was like, yeah, it was absolutely horrendous. Anyway, yeah, he made me these. He cut some Brillo pads in two and then cut his exercise bands in two and strapped these Brillo pads with earbuds, everything, just so I can. And I went. I was fully, you know, fully, fully deaf for about, I'll say, 80, 85% deaf for about a day. It was horrible. And then obviously my hearing came back. I think my brain had just shut off the noise. So anyway, yeah, so that was tough. Physically. I had a flipped meniscus. I had a stress fracture. And then which. Which went to a full fracture. I also discovered I have an extra bone in my leg. Like, there's a lot that happened on this trip. And other than that, I ran with just over 5,000 people around the country, discovered Scotland, the west coast of Scotland, which is. It was colder, but picture wise, if you look at it on photos, would look the same as some of the. The Maldives or some of the tropics. Just a lot colder.

You know, we know of endurance runners. They have, you know, certain endurance runs that we've spoken to have different tactics or mindsets doing such long distance day after day after day. And, you know, you're talking about being deaf and wearing Brillo pads. Like, what. What do you. Is there anything that you use as a strategy or is it goal focused? Like, how do you get through those really sort of tough days?

Two things. One, there's the privilege thing. It's the opportunity that I have. And I think there's this weird thing that we do when we are fortunate, that we want to experience how it feels to be on the other side. And it's subconscious. Obviously, you don't. You don't wake up and go, I know, let's go and suffer. Let's go and do this. I honestly think these goals have been set because I've been lucky, and I say I'm lucky. I think everybody that will be listening to this is lucky because they've got earphones, they've got a phone in their hand, they've got all of that opportunity that we just take for granted. That is something that is in the forefront of my mind without exaggerating 80% of the time, whether I'm on a mission or otherwise. And it keeps me calm, it keeps me frustration free, anger free, keeps me grounded in the sense that people like Kev sparked it. But he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. There's 2 million children in the world that die before they get to five because they don't have enough food. There's all these things that go on and I think if that can happen in the world, I can do a couple of marathons. And the worst that can happen is I stop and I go home and have a hot shower. You know, that that's the reality. And it's not, you know, I mean, it's an endurance sport, but it's not going to, it's not going to kill me so far. So that is one of them. The other thing is true, wanting to do it for you, for the right, for the right reasons. And I see a lot of people that I coach and some of the initial conversations, I can tell quite quickly that people are setting up for a goal that they're doing potentially not for themselves. They're doing it because their mate wants them to do it or because they think they should, because they've seen bits on social media. And that's all very well and good, not to say it's not possible with attitude. I just believe it makes it a lot harder. And there's all sorts of things that come across my mind with missions that I want to do. If there's something that I really want and it stands out, then I make it happen, I think. And I don't know where that comes from and it's very hard to articulate it, but that's the truth. I have to absolutely want it or it just won't succeed.

So that leads me nicely onto what is your why for running at the moment? Why do you continue to do what you do?

I think why now is about the calmness. I had one goal this year, actually. I always write down a one word thing at the end of every year to start the new year. And this year was the word calm. Because I'm very hectic, frantic. In my life of juggling a million things, missions, planning, et cetera, et cetera. But running has always been my calm place, whether it's stressful office life to get out, most of the decisions I've made since I took up running as a, as a career have been the right balance, having the charity doing certain missions on my terms. And yes, there are always sponsor commitments and pressures and financial worries and all that sort of stuff. But now creating run weekends has opened a door that I'm very happy that has opened. Do I really want it? Does it feel right? I thought of the idea, I did my research, and you know what? It really feels right. So ask me in 10 years. But right now it feels like what I should be doing. And I think just trusting your instinct is part of it.

I think that's brilliant. I think. I think when you can turn your passion into your career, you know, as they say, you don't work a day for the rest of your life, do you? Ultimately, it doesn't actually have to be, you know, you've pivoted once from finance into running you.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean that you can't pivot again in the future.

Absolutely.

But what. Explain what running weekends is all about. What does it. What does a running weekend with you look like?

Long, probably.

Yeah, yeah, Lots of running. No, actually, the idea of run weekends was born because I was fed up of running events, racing, going to events, wanting to go and run with lots of people, but I didn't really want to go and race, get a medal, have to train hard for it, you know, all that stuff. I wanted to go and just meet people and run. And there are a few entities out there that are brilliant and offer various different things, but very few offer just turn up, have a good time, see a new place and run. And I've been approached by lots of people that had run with me before or read my book. And they said, why don't you do something like this? There's not much. And I said, no, I don't have much time. I'm planning another mission. I'm spending too much time speaking about things or et cetera, et cetera. And the more, you know, a couple of years went by and I thought, actually I could quite enjoy doing that. And then I started to think about it a little bit more, about what wasn't available in the market. And I thought, yeah, actually, I've got some good contacts, I've got some contacts that could take us to places. And we're going to North Korea in 2026 with run weekends. And so doesn't have to be far flung places. But for example, we have Wales, Scotland, Dubai, Corfu, Australia, Tonga, Yemen, North Korea were the other ones. Barcelona in a few weeks. And it's for all abilities. This is the big thing it's not for. You don't have to run quickly, you don't have to run. Well, you pick the weekend that suits what you're after. Everybody that's been on the trips has just been exactly the kind of person that I wanted to be there. They're just there because they love to run. They have no interest in running quickly and they don't want to get a medal or a T shirt or something at the end of it. They just want to have something organized and go and meet some cool running people.

So those trips sound amazing and I can see Claire and I both adding this to the bucket list now. But what makes you want to go to. I mean, within that, you list some fairly dangerous places to go, or what we perceive to be dangerous. What makes you want to go to places like Barcelona where you're blatantly going to get pickpocketed? Yemen and North Korea?

What.

What is it about you that thinks I'm going to make my organizational life much more difficult by doing that?

Well, I think it's exactly that. It's, it's debunking the preconception because there's a beautiful island owned by the country, Yemen, Socotra, and this island is more or less empty and I would imagine in 10 years time it's going to be an absolute tourist trap because it's stunning, gorgeous trail. It's. It's not easy to get to, but there is enough infrastructure there and I happen as the network. Network serves its purpose very well. Happen to know somebody who is British but does tour guiding on the island. And so the whole model of the business is that I connect with people that have good local knowledge and then we go on and put a great event. Wales is being run by Nick Kershaw and I, and so it's, it's, it's that connection. Dubai was run by me and a girl called Alice. I met Alice when I ran around Britain. I met her once in Bognor Regis and she moved to Dubai and we've kept in touch. Boom, we did a brilliant trip. And then people go, oh, wasn't it dangerous? You go, well, no, actually, this is how we experience. And so it's kind of uncovering the realities of. Like you said earlier, we're living in a very safe world in comparison. It doesn't seem it when we watch the news, but we are living in a much safer world when you compared to the past.

Always want to talk about books on this podcast. I know you've got a couple of your own or I Think three of your own books, which. Which is amazing. But what I would like to know is what books have inspired you on your journey? What books do you find yourself recommending or going back to or just stand out for whatever reason?

Oh, my word. I am a big reader. Actually, that's not true. I'm a big listener. I listened to lots of books. I got through a good. It was 120books I got through on Run Britain, you know, that's not far off. A book a day and listening, running for 12 hours a day, that'll do that. There are a hell of a lot of books. I think everybody needs more time to read. It's just wonderful. The one that comes to mind is a book read not so long ago called Barbarian Days by William Finnegan. It's not running, it's surfing and travel. It's in the 60s and he quits his life and says goodbye to his existence, sell to stuff and decides to go and be a surf bum for a few months. And that turns into many years and incredible stories, incredibly well written. The audiobook is narrated by him as well, so Barbarian Days definitely stands out. And then the other one, which was recommended to me by Penguin, my publisher, when I was writing Running the World, and they said, just read this. This will give you some good inspiration. And it did. Absolutely did. The book called Jupiter Travels, also written back in the 50s, I believe, by a journalist from the Times. And he rode around the world on his motorbike and he kept a diary and did nothing with that diary after the fact. And then his family then pieced it together into a book. It's a time capsule of a book, but it's phenomenal. So, yeah, adventure, running, adventure, surf, adventure, travel. I mean, I could list any of Sean Conway's books, any of Mark Beaumont's books, any of Ali's books. There's so many great books out there. I have to say, Mark's book I would absolutely recommend as well, actually, because that was one of the first ones I read.

Those are two books that we haven't had recommended. I've not heard of either of them before, so I love that I will be adding those to my reading list. So thank you.

You will recommend them to others, for sure. Brilliant.

And then we have another tradition on the podcast where we get the last guest to ask the next guest a question without them knowing who that's going to be. So you get a question from Olympic swimmer Steve Parry, and I think, Clare, you've got his question, haven't you?

If you could Give your younger self some advice. What and when would it be? And why?

What and when? I think it would be when I was 7 or 8. And the what would be chill out, it's going to be okay. I was incredibly nervous, shy, cripplingly shy as a kid. I would hold the dinner lady's hand at lunch and not move a muscle. I was just scared of the world and the thought of running a metropolitan in every country in the world. My 7 year old self is just bonkers. And that advice I'd give my seven year old self was that you can adapt and change, it's just up to you. And, and just chill out with your own, your own demons because they will, they will morph and you'll have new demons and the old ones will go. And that's essentially what it's being human, isn't it? But you don't know that at seven.

Yeah, seven or 17 and with two teenage daughters. I think there's a lot of good advice that I will be trying to pass on with the usual delicacy.

And they will only learn from not listening to you at all. Correct. Working out for themselves in 20 years time.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But they've got a better chance if I tell them you said it, not advice them. Try this guy, this great guy on the podcast and he said something really inspiring. Fantastic. No, that's really, really good. Great advice. And then the last question because I mean you've done some incredible challenges so far. Knowing you, I'm sure there's something next. What's next?

There is something next. There's a few things next. The, I suppose the smaller one is running north to south of New Zealand, so very much Italy style, top to bottom, in my own time, in my own route, doing a decent mileage a day, probably something maybe 40 miles a day, something like that. That's a bit of the middle of the road from what I've done, but not too grueling.

How long will that take? If assuming you do 40 miles a day, how long will that take?

It depends on the route. So at the, at the moment we're looking at about three months. I might want to do it in five, I might want to do it in two, depending on the route, depending on truthfully, it's finding other contacts, other recommendations of places that I want to go and see on the way and if, and if the miles add up, we'll find a pretty number that's, that's good for social media and the mainstream media and set some form of, of Target and see, I won't be doing doubles a day. I don't. Well, I know I won't be doing that. That was just silly. The. So that's, that's the little thing and the, the big thing which has been brewing for many years and I'm close to working out everything I need to work out, bar the last piece of the puzzle, which is a hell of a lot of money, is to try and break the record for the most consecutive marathons. And I'm going to do that in probably in the Pan American highway, so up from, from Alaska all the way down to the southern tip of Chile. And that is going to be a thousand marathons in a thousand days. Fingers crossed.

And what's the current record for that most consecutive month?

It varies. There's all sorts of. If you look at the official Guinness record, it's. It's only around the 240 odd number. But there's lots of other unofficial. Which to be honest, I give just as much credit to. There's lots of other numbers which were around the 400 mark. So I will.

So a thousand is quite a lot. That gives you quite a good buffer. That does, doesn't it?

Gives me a little bit of a buffer. And it's also, it also came this, like I said earlier, it came to me as one of my. Wouldn't it be nice to do that? And it's never left my mind, so it's going to have to be ticked off at some point. But balancing real life with that and run weekends actually is a really good point because the idea was to create run weekends, get it stable and then do my thousand marathons in a thousand days and have the run weekends events in locations that I will be going through. So yeah, watch this space that may, that may happen like that or it may not, but I'll be doing it.

That sounds absolutely bonkers. As well as amazing. As well as. Yes, you can't think a thousand of anything. Sounds like a lot.

Three years is, is a, it's a lot. A long chunk of time to be just running for. But the idea is to run from let's say 5am till 10 or 11am and then have the rest of the day to visit schools and have a life, you know, do some speaking events, write all that sort of stuff. But yeah, we'll see. It's. It's ready to go. There's been all sorts of iterations, but just need a, need a chunk of money to get us over the line and then we'll be Off.

Amazing. Amazing. It's been absolutely incredible listening to you, Nick. Where's the best place for people to find out more about you? The run weekends and also the charity.

Yeah, best place I guess is my website, nickbutter.com or my social media, which is nickbutter run and then run weekends. Just Google run weekends. And my charity, which is very dear to my heart and we are growing it as quickly as we can, is the 196-foundation.com.

That'S incredible. Well, I will be definitely watching you on social media and everything else. And we have a few listeners and as well as a few former guests that are based in New Zealand. So if you need a few contacts and a few connections out there, then we can.

Yes, please.

Certainly. Help.

Yes, please.

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's truly inspiring.

No, thank you very much for having me. And as I always say, it's without platforms like this, I wouldn't be able to tell the story. So thank you too.

So I promised you right at the the very beginning that I would give you access to how you can build your mood armor. Now, Nick talked about having this mental fortress. So if you'd like to build your mood armor, if you would like to stay on top of your mental resilience, then click in the show notes below. We have got a guide for you for mindful eating, for mood management. Build building your mood armor. So download in the show notes below.

So what did you make of the interview with Nick Butter?

It was, I think it was really interesting to hear how he got from where he was to where he is now. And like you say, it got out a bit out of hand, didn't it, with his running. I think also what actually is possible in life if you really want something bad enough that actually he just went out there and just did it and keeps on doing it and keeps stretching his like what is possible. So that for me was really inspiring and I'm sure it would be for lots of listeners as well. It made me question myself. Do I push myself enough to do the things that I really want to do? So, yeah, very inspirational, I would say. How about for you?

I agree. I love the fact that he has turned his passion into his career, but he has this amazing why behind what he does does. But you know, he referenced Sean Conway. We talked about Mark Beaumont a little bit. These guys that create a career from doing outlandishly crazy amounts of the thing that they love and albeit I'm sure within that there's plenty of moments where he's going, oh my God, why have I done this? I don't love running at this moment in time, but it's just brilliant. I think it's. But I just also think the logistics of these things. Mark Beaumont could cycle round around the world, but he could do it really by any route of his choosing. So if there was an awkward place, you'd make sure you didn't cycle through there. So think about every country in the world, the kidnapping risk and getting a visa to run a marathon in Iran. And we didn't talk about it, but he had another story where he ended up having to run the whole marathon around a car park. He did 400 laps of the car park because he was supposed it was in the island, I think something like the Marshall Islands and they have a real problem with vicious dogs there. And he tried to run, got attacked by the most vicious dogs he'd ever seen. And so he just had to go back into the safety of the hotel car park and do the whole thing there. Mind blowing. It's just logistics are so difficult. Yeah, I think it's brilliant.

I think that also is. Brings it back to if you set out a goal and you make your goal. We often talk about goals being big enough, don't we, to be really exciting and push yourself, but also being able to actually meet that goal. And each story he told, and we didn't hear all the amazing stories, which I'm sure actually are in his book, the fact that no matter what happens, he knew he had that deadline of getting to Athens and he just did it.

I think you're right. And it references back to the fact that the concept of goals is. It's this thing in the future. You don't know how you're going to get from where you are today to what that goal is in the future, but if you've got the motivation to do it, you'll find a way. And you need to know, you only need to know the next step. You don't need to know the 20 steps or the 200 steps that are going to get you from here to the goal. You just need to know the next step. And every step is moving you further towards that goal.

And that's.

Yeah, I think it's. It's brilliant. I was going to ask him with the flight issues and luggage issues I'm currently having for one race in one one country that I was going to ask him about, but I ran. We ran out of time or. And I forgot.

I'm sure there were many issues of how to get around the world.

Just when you think that you've got everything covered, something like that must put everything in jeopardy.

Yeah, absolutely. But actually, again, another question we didn't ask. How much do you actually need? When we might do races nowadays, we take loads of stuff with us, but actually, in reality, if you're moving around the country, actually. Actually, how much do you need to take with you?

Well, I think I thought I heard him talk about that on another podcast and he started off with lots of stuff. Then in the middle of the phase, he went down to really minimalist and then he went back up to lots more stuff again because it just. It didn't quit. But interestingly, he does go off and do. I think. I can't remember. I think he said it was Corsica. He went and ran Corsica for 14 days and he just. Just went.

His.

All his entire luggage for the whole trip was a bum bag. So basically he just went and he did the whole trip with a bumber. You can't pack many changes of underwear in that.

About a toothbrush and that's about all.

Yeah, yeah. And you've probably got to shave your toothbrush to get that in.

It's the ultra running to the extremes, I think.

Yeah, it is incredible. It is incredible. But, yeah, no, I think it's a great episode. And what he's doing with the charity and the run weekends is just brilliant as well. It's kind of similar to Nick Kershaw's impact marathons, but with a different take on that same concept, isn't it? And it's. Yeah, it's really brilliant, I think, also.

Just taking the element of kind of fun running for fun, rather than it being about competition. And I wonder how many people that kind of got into running over lockdown. He talked a bit about lockdown there, but just wants to continue being active and find a way out from their stressful jobs. And that sounds. Yeah, sounds amazing to go away to some of those places.

Yeah, it does. And I think you're right. When you disconnect the running and the time element and you just make it purely about the fun, then I think that opens up a whole different dynamic and it becomes much more about mental well being than anything else. You know, brilliant episode and an inspiring guy. So. Well, good luck with all of your efforts and training. And for everybody else, keep on training. If you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of endurance podcast, we don't ask for you to pay for us. We don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple, give us a five star rating because it shows us you care and if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that. But we really do appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.

Sa.