The Transformative Impact of Community-Driven Marathon Events with Nick Kershaw

Foreign.

I'm Charlie Redding.

And I'm Claire Fudge.

Welcome to the business of endurance.

A chap who came to our first ever race in Nepal and he was super quiet. I thought he was really not enjoying it. Something he'd done afterwards is he'd sent me a logo where he put together a photo of every single person on that trip into a mosaic of our logo. And he went, yeah, that's how an introvert says thank you. And also, just like she's blossomed and she's bossing the boys around and she's, she's, you know, just phenomenal. And so stories like that are really forward to what made the race, especially year after year.

In today's episode, we're thrilled to introduce Nick Kershaw, the visionary founder of Impact Marathon series, an initiative that embodies the transformative power of running. In 2015, Nick Nick embarks on a journey that would not only change his life, but also the lives of communities around the globe. With a simple yet profound belief in running's ability to uplift and empower, Nick and his team launched their first marathon in Nepal. There, living alongside a local village, they not only built a vital five kilometer water pipeline, but also discovered their unique ability to enact lasting change through the act of running. Inspired by the United nations satisf 17 global goals, Nick saw an opportunity to make these lofty objectives tangible and relatable, asking critical questions about their real world implications. Through the Impact Marathon series, he aimed to demystify these goals, making them accessible and actionable for individuals from all walks of life. Nick's leadership has guided the series to remarkable Heights, raising over $1.3 million for grassroots organizations and directly impacting thousands of lives. His journ, from a career in finance to leading a global movement, showcases his unwavering passion and energy, which he pours into every race, every meeting and every interaction, including this interview. Nick's story is a testament to the belief that running is more than a sport. It's a powerful force for global change and community connection. Join us as we delve into the world of Impact marathons, exploring how Nick Kershaw turned a dream into a dynamic reality, making an indelible impact on the world one race at a time.

So before we dive into our interview with Nick Kershaw, if you stick around towards the end, I am going to offer you a fantastic download with 10 top hits. So stay tuned at the end.

So, Nick, welcome to the business of endurance. I am really looking forward to chatting to you for so many different reasons. I love the fact that you're dialing in from the city of London. I can see some interesting sites in the background there. And I think that's really where this all started, wasn't it? So tell us a little bit about why and how impact marathons came about.

Yeah, well, it feels weird to be doing that. I think it's been a long time since I've been back in actually the old offices where I used to work. So I was originally in finance and financial planning and I was working for an organization here in the city whose office I'm now in again. And I had a side project which I was doing in the evenings, hiding away in a meeting room. And I was training for an Ironman that year as well. And it figured to make sense. A lot of people were asking you, so what are you fundraising for? 9 man, I was only doing it for my own selfish demons. Like I was trying to solve a lot of problems in my life in my head. And so I wasn't really doing it for that. But I had these projects in Uganda. I thought, well, what if I could do something specific for that? And then when we started looking at a really cool project, I kind of put on a drinks party as you do when you work in freedom in London, you put on a drinks party, everyone came. It was a beer tasting evening, lots of talks of adventures and I got quite a few of the cool adventurers in London to come along and talk. And yeah, I don't know something about it just felt like everyone's going to donate tonight. We're going to hit a good total but no one's going to really remember that they did that. When you donate to a friend running London marathon or whatever, you usually forget a few weeks later if that. And then you never see that the journey that money goes on, the impact and the good it does. So I just told everyone that night, you know, donate and come out to Uganda and see the work you've done. Because I think it adds so much value in one's life to actually understand that the impact that we've made. And then I just quit to the, you know, in that same line and I don't remember making the script and the video shows that I did when you do we're going to run a marathon. And then at the end people came up to me like, what's the marathon plan? There was no marathon plan. And six weeks later at the Ugandan embassy launching the Uganda marathon. And that was 2014, 2015. And so from early on in that journey with the Uganda, it was obvious that we had something really special where people would come out, really understand more about the community, really enjoy their travel in a way that no one else would normally do on a standard tour. And then you have this special day at the end where everyone gets to run together. And it's just running is the catalyst, but it's not the reason everyone comes back again or it's not the reason, it's not the reason that people give after the race as to why they came. And I realized that there was something potentially really powerful there. And I just been spending three years working in patch investments. Like how do I tie all this together? And then, yeah, I think it was basically three weeks after I got back from Uganda, I sat down for my quarterly review and I went, I've got to try, I've got to go for this, I've got to see if I can do this. And eight years on here I am still not wearing a suit in the office.

And describe what the first six days of that week looks like and look like then and is it different now?

That's a great question. So then in Uganda that first year, so you arriving country, we've built a pop up athletes village. We call it sort of, I don't want to call it a glamping because that gives you connotations of bell tents and inflatable beds and generally disappointing and more just sort of, yeah, we'll build you safari tents, we'll put beds in there. It's nice and comfortable, but it's not wow. It's not amazing, but the views are always spectacular. So it's got to have that element of wow, where am I? And then it's got to have that element of really engaging the community on a high level. It's very easy to put on simple volunteer projects where we pat ourselves on the back and go, cool, we've done great and you move on. But where I've always been obsessed is like, how do you genuinely engage all of the participants and the community around a single project? So the first event we did as Impact Marathon in Nepal was building the five kilometer water pipeline. We had 120 runners, you had 112 villages, almost as many pickaxes. And we built a five kilometer water pipeline that brought water to the village all year round. And that element of that single big project was almost too perfect, almost too amazing. It was such a powerful and amazing project that I always felt like every new location we can do the same thing, we can do that, but it's actually so hard to find a project that's fully community led, truly impactful, and that can engage everybody for two or three days in a remote location. So now we spend a bit more time with the community, learning and listening and understanding and engaging on a different level. And we found that that actually creates a more powerful impact on both sides because just simply doing work is, is good when we get it right, is perfect. But you can easily get that wrong. And we have gotten that wrong. So now it's like, okay, cool, why are we here? What's the understanding? So if you look at Jordan, which we just did, we went and visited an amazing center called Green in the Desert, where they're using permaculture and regenerative farming techniques to literally green a desert with using minimal amounts of water, 50 degrees Celsius, heat, rocky terrain. And they've shown over the last 15 years how to do that. And so now we're spending a bit of time in the, you know, two hours of learning that day. And then we'll get stuck into actually physical learning and all that. So it kind of blends a little bit more into everything. So you come out with a much more holistic idea of the impact that can be had, the impact your fundraising is doing. So, yeah, that's where I've been obsessed is like, how do you create? And it's just truly making an impact on both sides of the coin.

So the people that do this, how has that changed in the way they come out of this project? Because obviously going there, building the pipeline is really.

Yeah.

But I suspect the more they learn about the community, the more they come home and maybe do more beyond that. Has that been the case?

Yeah. I'm guilty of a lot of bosses getting resignation notices.

Congratulations.

Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that. I know I'd be upset, but potentially some relationship breakups as well. You go back and you see the world very differently after this. And I think you have those extremes where people go back and go, you know what? I'm just, this is not what I want in my life. I want to change, I want to move. But you also. There was one amazing lady who came to our race in Guatemala, I believe. Yeah, Guatemala, 2018. And she went back and she set up a girls running group in Ottawa. And that was her thing, was I. And there was another lady, that same lady, they were friends and she, I just want to go outside my kids every weekend. So there's these micro changes that people make where it's, what can I do? To make life more purposeful. Then there's the people who go in and they change their policies at work and they how they're operating and they change the concepts with their business done. Then the people who are on the far extreme who go home, break up with their relationships, break up with their jobs and everything like this. So there's always like an impact. And there is a truly like Guatemala is a really good example where we focus on young leaders and actually like their whole focus. The charity we work with there are just like, well, let's face it, what you're really good at is getting on Instagram and telling a story. So we're going to organize a Women's Day march and you're going to come on that Women's Day march and you're going to share the in tech ban in Guatemala. That's what's happening. And when we did that, we said, yeah, okay, cool, we'll back that idea. That seems cool. Not only does the attract a lot more attention the year before, they've had 12 people. That year they had over 300 because they'd gone to the mayor and said, we've got this group, they're coming over now. There's 300 women and men marching through Tech Pan. And so suddenly there's a greater impact now that changes the way you think about the different elements of what gender equality means for indigenous community in Guatemala. That's very different to what it means here in the city of London. That's very different to what it means over in the south of France. I can't think of another geographic location off of my head. But so how all of those different social impacts and sustainable development goals look in different communities. And so when you get that, everyone changes a little bit.

As a brief interlude, Nick's just referenced the importance of goal setting. But these are also races that are very much on my bucket list or heading onto my bucket list now. Anyway, and a bucket list is a really powerful tool in setting better goals because you can look through the bucket list regularly and think about when you're setting goals to create better goals through that bucket list. If you want my help in setting better goals and also my help in creating a bucket list, then we have a three hour online workshop called the Limitless Life Workshop. And if you head to the link in the show notes or to www.thetrusted.team, you can watch our next Limitless Life workshop for free.

Everyone changes a little bit. And some I only find out years later, like years later where you. Yeah, one Final thing is a chap who came to our first ever race in Nepal, and he was super quiet, quite introverted. It was a big group. Even when I tried to talk to him, I wasn't sure how he was like, I thought he was really not enjoying it. Bubbly. And then a few years later, he saw on Strava that I was running in Ottawa, and he messaged me and just was like, hey, should we go for a run? I'm stationed here at the moment. So I went out for a run, and something he'd done afterwards is he'd sent me a logo where he put together a photo of every single person on that trip into a mosaic of our logo. And I said to him, like, I hadn't really gotten whether you loved it or not. And I was so touched when you sent me that. And he went, yeah, that's how an introvert says thank you.

I love that idea of the mosaic. Have you done that since? It just reminds me of the Iron Man. You know, you buy your Iron Man T shirt because your name's on the back of it.

Yeah, man.

I just think that's a lovely thing with the photo.

I should go back to that. I didn't. Yeah.

There must be so many challenges around organizing a business like this, where you're trying to get people out to run. You're taking them to remote parts of world. What are some of the. The biggest challenges you've experienced in as trying to create this business, and how did you have you overcome them?

Well, I think from a business perspective, we're very different. There's no one doing it on scale. Like, we're doing it in terms of very specifically focused like this. And so we're not. We don't think of ourselves as a marathon organizer or a competitive marathon organizer. So you're kind of having to teach people what we're actually doing. And people will ask questions about. Yeah, the standard questions you'd ask before you went to do a destination marathon. But we're not that, you know, we're not that. We're about the community. So I think our messaging can appeal to different people at different times. It's always been very hard to find that niche. Who is our target market? Who is our Persona? Because we've seen all sorts. And so that has definitely hampered our ability to message, because from day one, we've seen such a diverse group of people come to each of our races for all different reasons. And they're coming across us for lots of. We get hardcore runners, and we get people who've never run a race before. And we get one lady who just. Yeah, again, I didn't find out until the very end. Often away where she was like, yeah, you know, my son's really into adventure. So I thought if I did this, it would help me connect with him. How do you market to that person? You know, so it's. And when. Because it's like part of our heart and soul, it's very hard to make that into sort of business. Like, what is our target market? You need to. Because, you know, we have to survive. You have to be sustainable. We have to grow as an organization. And then literally, you know, halfway through a meeting with the team about how we're going to do that this year, where is the running market today? But even saying that feels weird because, yes, we run at the end of the week, but no, we're not a running company. We're not a running organization. You know, we don't get invited to the National Running show every year to do speeches because we're not thought of as like that. We kind of a bit of travel, a bit of charity and social impact, bit of running. We kind of cross a few different sectors. And I think that's always been a challenge for me.

Funny I've said to you, before we started recording, I was chatting to one of the guys I swim and cycle with this morning about this and, like, the number of times Claire and I have interviewed somebody that has got, you know, become a very good ultra runner, some of the top ultra runners. And it all started with Marathon Day Sable. That's where they start. They do that, having never run before. Go, oh, my God. But marathon Disable isn't really a run, is it? It's an adventure that involves running or walking.

Yeah.

It strikes me that the people that are signing up for Marathon De Saab might well be signing up for yours instead.

Yeah. And if they were two of our. Well, Stacey, who introduced us, she's Martin de Saba, who became one of our very early backers, and she was brought in by a friend of hers that she persuaded to do Marathon de Sab. And he's definitely not a runner. And he did it and achieved it. On the back of that, he was like, I've got some money in my foundation. I want to give to an organization that can grow that. So Mountain Bissava is sort of weirdly interlinked with us because of that start pointing. But it's absolutely that. And because you're put through so many different things through the week, sometimes it can be pretty physically tough. You know, you're digging a pipeline. It's hard work. We've had some really tough years. Altitude, you know, sleeping in a tent, all of those different things. So. And Sophie's always described it as basically, it's socially powerful. For those who haven't seen the episode of Sophie, Sophie would describe it as an ultra marathon, but the running bit is crammed into the final day. And it's a bit like that. It's emotionally taxing. It's physically a bit taxing, but it's powerful. And you see what's possible in the same way as you do with an ultra, but you just have to do a lot less running. We only do that in the last days.

The first official one was in Nepal, but it obviously started in Uganda. Where are they now? You've mentioned Guatemala, I think already. And Jordan you've mentioned. What's the full list and how do they vary? You know, what's the difference between doing Jordan and Guatemala?

So races now. Nepal, Jordan, Guatemala. We'll be bringing back Kenya and Malawi at some point through this year. We'll be relaunching them. We had to pause a few from the pandemic, and we've not been able to get up to our full list again. Before the pandemic, we had seven a year where we had four or five impact races and then probably two white labels. So we work with charities and we put on a race for them. We wear their colors, all of that. So we worked this year, we did a race in Ethiopia for Compassion uk. So we. We have a white label arm as well, but the core different. Yeah, the race routes are all very different. You know, the Himalayas, you've got obviously go trails, higher altitude, far more remote. Incredibly remote. Incredibly. Just like we have to hike to get to the village. You know, it's just crazy and it's really special. It's just super peaceful. Jordan, the first night or two is in a month. So like we're talking about a city start now and then. Jordan actually incorporates more of the sort of classic travel elements as well because we drive past Petra. And as much as I tried to stop us doing Petra. Okay, I gave. I really did try hard on that one. But after I driven past it seven times, about enough. I've got to go in. This is crazy. But that one actually we stay in decent accommodations throughout. Even when you get into the desert, the better intense. They're pretty comfortable. That's more. If you want hotel in Guatemala. Yeah, that's a hotel throughout. And A really nice one. And so it just depends what each one's given us. The main change would be obviously the race day, but then also through the week, what's the social story. So Guatemala is around youth leaders, Jordan is around permaculture and green in the desert. We partnered up with the Invictus Games foundation this year, so we visited the Invictus team in Jordan. And so there was an element of looking at how the Paralympic team works in that country in Jordan and the challenges with accessibility in Jordan. So that was a really interesting new challenge challenge for us, where we did a day of that and then a day of green, the desert. So each one has a totally different style and tone. Malawi was insanely remote. We. We had a resort that hadn't been used for 15 years and we literally cleared monkeys out of the rooms two weeks before and just it was on life support machine the whole time, but man alive, it was right on the banks of Lake Malawi. You'd never normally go there. So I guess I'm always seeking that place that you would never normally go. And then the communities, and the communities love for it. So that's the consistent thing, is it's got to be a wow place because people are still giving their time off, they're giving their days off. We don't have that many. Especially if you're in our jobs and all that, you don't have a huge amount of days off. This is your time, you're giving it some weeks. We want people to have that experience of being somewhere special, but we also really have to find the communities that, when we say, like, this is what we do, this is how we do it. The communities that buy into that and go, yeah, like, yeah. So that's the consistent stuff. But apart from that, everything's totally different. Yeah, brilliant.

You're not going to these events to come up with a pbi. These are obscure races, difficult terrain, from what I understand. What makes the fact that you've worked together as a team, been involved with the community, why does that make the run more special at the end of it?

Well, imagine turning out to run where you've got 30 great friends around you and there's no one else, right? There's no one else to help on that. Like, you've got to help each other through. So that on its most basic form, that's it, you know? And so the camaraderie and the spirit out in the course is always just unbelievable. Then we, as a team, we take it very personally. And I always say on the Opening on the night before the race and my race briefing, I always start with the same thing of, like, you're not a number. You know, through this period, I've gotten to talk to your wife on the phone. I've gotten to get to know your story. I've seen you, you know, in this situation. We've talked about that for a bit. So by the time you're out on the course, it really matters to me and the whole. That you don't just arrive at my van, like, good to go, but you have a smile and you give me a sweaty hug and, like, you know, that element of care for each person and knowing their stories and, you know, the night before the race as well, when we give out the bib numbers, we do them one by one. We get everybody to come up and get a massive cheer from all of them. And that's just one of those things that only happened by accident in one of the early races when I. The race numbers came late and suddenly I was like, oh, I've got to give them out. I just do it this way. And then it stuck as something that's really special. You know, you arrive and we write a handwritten note on your bedroom when you arrive. So it feels like you're, you know, this is where you're supposed to be. And so all of these little things. There's lots of little things you see, things you don't see through the week that by the end, when you're out on that course, it's special, it's spectacular. We always do courses that make you just pause, and we encourage you to pause. We don't, you know, our cutoffs are really generous. And it's like this. Of course, you're going to take a selfie. Like, your split times are going to be rubbish because you're going to take photos even if you're really trying hard. Yeah. So it's all of those different elements that are really important to what makes that race day suddenly feel like it's not a race. By the time you got to that, if we've done our job really well on the social impact, you don't care about the race. You're just going to go out there and have fun. And that, you know, limits our risks. It limits all sorts of different things, but it also just creates a really special energy amongst everybody.

When you do your marathon at the end, have you got the local community that you've just been working with? Are they all running with everybody or are they part of, like, support crew? Like, how does that work in terms of community?

Yeah. So in Guatemala, Malawi and Nepal, we have all the community out running. Jordan's too remote. There's no community. In the middle of doing very, very samples of what everyone does, there's no community. So that gives a totally different energy because that's like that solitude and that specialness of being somewhere so remote and not surrounded by anybody else. That's kind of. I've accepted that's actually really cool element that makes that race slightly unique. Guatemala, you know, Guatemala, the community was so strong that in the pandemic, when I couldn't go out, the team there went, nick, everyone still wants to do the race, so we're going to put it on anyway. And so they kind of took the race on to a new level. And then Nepal. Yeah. This year, like, lots of the school kids from all five of the different schools came and ran. It was just really special. And so, yeah, it depends on each race in each location, but wherever possible.

Yeah.

I mean, if we can get. We all know, I imagine amongst company here, people listening and the two of you, we all know the importance of running in our lives, the power of running in our lives. And so if we can use our races to encourage that in remote communities where we're running, that's ace. That's like another level of impact that you don't get to see. There's one. One girl who ran our first ever race, 2016, Nepal, with Rasheela Tamang. And she did. That was her first ever competitive race, did the 10k there. I've got a picture of her looking like so serious, intense on the start line. She was our race director this year. She's one of the best runners in the. She's winning races all over Asia. She raced UTMB brilliantly this year and so that's the story of impact that I love. And to have her out on the course this year was just really cool and also just like she's blossomed and she's bossing the boys around and she's, you know, just phenomenal. And so stories like that are really forward to what made the race, especially.

After year, because, I mean, that's incredible, isn't it? Because that one person then is having a massive impact. Because if she's ending up in utmb, the impact that other local people seeing, that is incredible, isn't it?

When we first started working there, that was when Mira Rai was sort of coming into the front and her impact was so crucial. And that's why Rashida is there, because she Was, you know, she wanted to be part of Mira's crew and that did so much for women in the park going, hold on, I can run. And now she's just got signed by a new company today and it is the women in Nepal now that are leading the charge in terms of professional and elite trail running. It's just amazing. That's all. Because Amira, that one lady who came to the fore, but she came to the fore because she won a race that was racer by Richard Ball and he went, cool, let's start a crowdfund. Let's get her into the sky. Running World championships. She gets into world championships and you know that. Then she became such a figurehead and there's so many others that I following in her way. It's really cool.

My other question, and you can always trust me to ask a food related question, tell me a little bit about. I can imagine these places have got the most amazing food. So what happens on camp? Like how does it work from like, have you got local kind of cooking food? Are you all cooking food together? Like I know you mentioned hotels at some point as well, but what does that look like in terms of if you've got like a community of you guys like all eating together, what's it like?

Yeah, so we always eat together. That's such an important part. And I think it's really special because sitting down and eating together and eating local produce, all of that is such an important part of the narrative around this community. And so we did and it was really special to having 150 people all eating together. It's really like that buzz and energy. So as with before, every race is slightly different. Nepal, it's all community members that are making the food. I think this year sort of 70% of the food was from the village itself and about 30% we brought up from Kathmandu. But nothing was imported. There's a story around that as well. In terms of eating local produce, Jordan very similar. I mean the Green the Desert project is one of the best meals I've ever had in my entire life. I mean it's extraordinary because all of it's grown nutritiously on site and that it's just mind blowingly good food. So that's a narrative. There's always a narrative. And last year in Jordan, the year before, some of the work we were doing was in the Palestinian refugee camp. And there's obviously right now especially there's a huge amount of narratives and anger and emotions around those stories. And actually one of the most powerful ways you can ever tell a story is by sitting down and eating the food of that culture and eating the food and the history of that. And that for me is how impact would tell a difficult story like that is not to have an opinion or push that opinion. It's like, no, well, that's it. Now, obviously we weren't able to do that this year for fairly obvious reasons, but the point remains, like, the community we were in had Palestinian heritage in it, and some of the sudden reason was Palestine. So there's a narrative there that's really beautiful that tells people different elements to all the different stories. And we always try and incorporate that into we tell our story. And on the course, I always try and make sure the food at every food station is sourced within a few miles of that food station. So in Guatemala, we get all our tortillas that we have. We have tortillas and salt.

Amazing.

That's all from Cindy, who's just like 20 inches down from the aid station. You can bring us up tortillas cooked fresh that morning. So, like, you know, I always try and be a bit quirky with that. We had sugarcane out there. Chapati and honey is always a favorite. You know, I try and be a bit different even out on the course as well.

I mean, we're talking about impact here, like sustainability as well, you know, local foods utilizing that, but also that kind of community aspect of eating together. Because throughout the centuries, in terms of communities, we all eat together, we tell stories, and, you know, love loving hearing.

About that in a business like this. Must be really difficult balancing the finances versus the sustainability and kind of the impact that you make. And I'm guessing, I suppose the follow up, sort of maybe the prequel to that question is, has your background in financial planning, particularly given that you were working on the kind of impact investing side, has that helped you overcome those challenges a little bit in terms of having a business that makes enough money to do whatever you need to do, but also to make the greatest impact. How do you get, how do you square that circle?

I think I'm still learning that that's been harder than I ever anticipated and never thought. And that's been the biggest challenge for me personally. You know, obviously I was earning pretty well in my previous life and, you know, for me, yeah, it's not been a good financial decision to do this, but it's probably been a good decision in every other way. And I think, you know, obviously we've got our way through it. We did a couple of investment rounds in the early days Quite small. But we always, you know, we wanted to be that if I was to do my time again, potentially I would go back and have raised a lot more capital, but then I probably would have spent a lot more capital, maybe wouldn't have made it through the pandemic. You know, I got into a very good way of being very diligent and frugal. And now looking forward into this year, it's like, yeah, it's a really hard balance and it's harder than I ever thought it would be. And you know, I think back to 27 year old me sat here planning it all out, but it didn't, it didn't work out quite like that. But we've got through and we've continued to survive. I think for the last three years it's been a case of we're hanging on next year, but now we're dreaming again. We've got some really great things lined up. But yeah, that does mean that we're going to need to bring out some very commercial elements to what we're doing. And what I mean by that is not within Impact Marathon itself, but we're about to bring out a new brand that is going to use the values of impact in terms of we'll be staying at local hotels, but it won't be centered around that one race that's designed to make an impact. Actually. It's around something that, you know, it's about getting people to, to travel more and run more.

I think these sound absolutely amazing and I can't quite get my head around whether I want to do it with my mates or my family. But some of these are pretty remote parts of the world. Are you seeing families coming and doing this together and how are you dealing with health and safety and kind of all of that sort of side of taking people like families to remote parts of the world.

We've always seen families involved. We're seeing a lot more now, I think to, you know, however many years of doing this, there's a trust level that means that people feel comfortable bringing their kids along. We had one lady last year in Nepal bringing 16 year old and a 12 year old along and yeah, that was awesome because they get to share memories and create memories that really go deep. That's a really special time to spend with your kids. So we are seeing more and more families join from a health and safety perspective. We've always taken it that high level. That means that it's never really worried me to have kids coming out as well. You know, you might get A couple extra worries, like if there's a 12 year old's first time in Nepal, there's a good chance they're going to have a runny tummy at some point in the week, as it is with most adults actually but like someone who's exposed that for the first time. So but we're really on, we're kind of prepared for that. We've always got a medic tent that's completely empty with a bed and we've got medics there throughout the whole week and we use local medics, we used to use British medics but actually we found in Asian location there's some amazing people and they know the terrain a lot better, they know what to do in those scenarios intimately. So we started to do that and again the kind of stacking that level of impact where it put more money into the actual country and the community. But in terms of health and safety, yeah, we've got a full system that we put in place. I think probably our most dangerous race is Guatemala where we're on a live volcano. So all sorts of things can happen there. But we've spent a lot of time on there and we know how it all works. We work with the volcano whereby there's a geothermal energy company there, so they've got pipes that go quite a long way down and so you've always got a five hour warning. If you are in a, if you're in a five week warning then there's also a five hour warning circuit. We've never had either of those happen at a race. So you feel quite comfortable on the race day that actually the chances of an eruption are very low so you have those different elements and then I think honestly, and this sounds a bit la dee da but like no one's out there really racing and pushing into the red and that limits the risk so much because people are out there enjoying it, they're taking rest. If I say, hey, stop, sit here for a little while, they stop. And when I do my race briefing, I have a little pet peeve of races that just tell you all the things not to do because no one's listening. Make sure you don't do this, make sure you don't. No one's listening. No one's listening at this point you can see it. No one's listening. And this is so by race these things are really engaging and I move around a lot, I chat like and I really engage with, I describe the whole course and you can see like I'm Greek, I've Got very hands. So you see that the whole group's engaged. They're listening. So there's a lot of different ways. There's obviously all the classic risk assessments and all of those things that you got to do. But actually, for me, a lot of the risk implementation is how we communicate, how we build those relationships, how we build that trust. In the week that when someone comes up and I'm like, hey, you should sit down for a little while, they go, course. Whereas in. In a competitive race where it's going out there. But, no, no, I'm good, I'm good. I've already come the night before. Like, if I tell you to sit down, you're sitting down. I'll rub your tackle you and get you to sit down, you know, because. And I. And again, through the week, they've seen the level of care and energy we put into each one of them, so they trust us at that moment. So it's like the hard and soft, right? The hard is all the stuff that you do that your insurance company wants to see you've done and that you take seriously as a team, because it's a really good way of having their questions. So when we do the risk assessments, I sit down with the whole team. We do it together, because then it's like, then you understand how that person thinks. There was one time in Kenya where we had a beautiful sunny day, and then a hailstorm came. Like, I'm talking golf balls coming from the sky in the middle of a race. And we had to shut the course down. And I called up my. The guy who's our race director, Mark. And we could barely hear each other, but we heard enough when I said, we're closing the course. And I knew where he was. I knew he was in the vehicle, and I knew I was on third, so I knew I'd draw the short store here. But we couldn't communicate. But because we'd done every course together and we worked along together and we played the what if game. What if that happens? What if that happens? What if that happens? We'd done the risk assessments together. It's like, okay, cool. We just both went into the modem. Within an hour, everyone was back down by the fires, warming up, some people running around the huts to make sure they get the mountain distance. They've fallen just short. And it was just like. And you know, that's part of the nature of these kind of races. And, you know that, you know, after that race, 10 of them signed onto the Nepal race. The year after.

Do you get many people coming back and doing the next one and then the next one.

That's what's made it so special for me. That's what makes it worse sometimes the hard times. It's like yeah, we just had two guys hit five races, the first two to have ever done five races. So we did a special, you know, plan for special things for people who want to get to that. We've got the three Star club where you get a discount for license. There's you know, 50 odd people in that and that's a huge thing to do. Three different races in three different locations. We've only been around eight years.

That's really, really good. So we have a tradition on the podcast where the previous guest asks the next guest a question without knowing who that is going to be. And so you have a question from Claire Danson. I think, I think Claire this, Claire has got the question lined up.

So Claire Danson asks what is the big idea that you try if you knew you couldn't fail?

So we're just in the process of launching a new brand within Impact called fastpack Global and that's going to be all around bringing fastpacking to all sorts of different locations, places you'd never normally go as well as the classic tracks. And so whereas Annapurna Circuit is a 21 day trek, you can fast pack it in depending on your fitness, 11 to 13 days. And we've got some amazing trail running guides out there in each of our locations. Dana to Petra. Another classic great trek actually you can run it in two and a half, three days and so that gives you more time to go and explore the country or get home and then do another trip that's shorter and intense. So you'll fastbacks your run, walk them and just do slightly longer days, a bit more intensity.

So that's a guide taking you through that and is that carrying everything or have you got somebody carrying your stuff between, between the evenings?

The question for you, what would you rather? Because we can do both. And I guess that's where we're saying actually we would quite like it if you arrive and you've got a tent set up and everything like that. And it's a bit like when you do those multi days, the mountain disarms and he's got a tent and you've got, but you've got some food there so you're not carrying everything. But we are looking, we're literally discussing it. Just before I came over that's why I was sprinting across London Bridge to get here of whether we do almost a raw package where it's like, cool, you're carrying everything and you're setting up but you just got a guide with you or if you actually want to arrive into, you know, if you look at Annapurna. So it's a good example where there's sea house. No point camping, you've got seahouses like, don't be silly about this. Have a bed right here. But then there will be more remote locations where that's going to be the only option and it's whether, you know, we might give two options on that. We're still kind of working through what people want and probably at launch will offer one with the other one. Talk to us if you'd like to do it this way.

I reckon I can guess which Claire's going to go for.

So I think if you are an athlete that has done maybe ultra distances, I think there's maybe an element of what could I do to push myself further? What's another challenge? And that's probably to carry everything. I think maybe that appeals to an athlete that wants to have another challenge, another layer.

I think for me, I'm not trying to shorten the trip. I'd run further but not carry my stuff. I remember chatting to Kerry about this. So we did the arc 50 down in. In Cornwall and we were chatting to Kerry, who's a very good ultra run and she was crewing for us and she was saying one of the best things about the race in. It's a. It's an ultra race that ends in base camp and she said they do carry the stuff and you've got food stations, so actually all you got is kind of your next couple of hours worth of food and drink and it makes the run so, so lovely because you can actually run it as opposed to where you've got a tent on your back. You're probably walking nearly all of it, I would imagine.

Yeah, and that's how I feel and that's why you need to have that. I think we'll offer it as that. But here's the next question and again, these may be answered by the time this comes out. But when it comes to those ultra runners, do they want a guide or do they want to go and self guide a fastback route? In which case we'll also be providing information for people to do that and make that more accessible for people. So there's a number of different elements of what we're doing there, but essentially, you know, we've built up this Huge network of amazing trail runners, trail running guides. We've got great hotels, we've got really strong values and how we organize trips that they're different and you don't just tick off things. But actually yeah, it's more impact in the community through the decisions of where we put our money, not just the social side of things, if that makes sense. And yeah, we can offer it all year round.

So to me I would do it as the base level and then pay this to add a guide. Pay this to add transporting your stuff between one. Because it's like, you know once it's like when you buy a car, isn't it? You'll pay 500 quid for a gear stick. It's out of concept now and then. Yeah. If you went into Halfords and you looked at 500 pounds for the normally but once you've committed you'll just get. You'll add on but they'll be that. You're right. The hardcore people probably won't want either. Yeah, the soft core people will want both.

The hardcore people may not be who. Who wants to do stuff with us. Right. They probably want to do it themselves and that's okay. I think you have to be, you know, again what I. I guess I've learned over the years, just be stronger. What we're offering, we know we're offering and it's not going to be for everybody. There's. Most people will still want to just trek up the space now, not run it. Like most people still wouldn't do that. But there's a group of people who really want to do something different. And yeah, I'm just, I'm beyond excited about this because I think it gives an ability for us to carry on doing. Keeping impacts values central and having something that can fire those up as well. So I think that it really helps us because that question earlier, how do you make something like this sustainable? And it's really hard, especially when I don't want lots of people on the group. I don't want to have 120 people again. That was amazing and crazy and wild for a first race. But actually 35 people is the right amount of people. It is. And having done 25 of these events now, it's definitely true. The group of 35 bonds in a way that. No. Yeah. Because there's no cliques at that point. Everyone's together. We just had this really special group experience. So I can't go higher, I won't go higher and I'm too strong on those values. Which annoys people around me. But it's like that's what makes the event special. If you go chasing the margins and you go chasing the numbers, you lose the power of the event. And I could do that and it could probably be all right, it'd be successful, but would it be that life changing, special thing?

If you ever see it being like, for example, we take Nepal, instead of it being once a year, there's one a month in Nepal. Clearly you're not necessarily running 12 in Nepal and 12 in Guatemala or 12 in Jordan. But could you see that, that being the case as well?

Yeah, I think you have to find different locations. You did that in one community, you would overrun that community and then you get, you either get challenges lately. So we moved communities after five years at work because actually the power of the impact had really gone down every year. The big thing when we moved there was after the earthquake. They didn't have year round water. So we solved that in year one. Then year two we took the water pipeline to three different parts of the village in year three that was by the time we got the year three we supported them in getting funding. So it went into every single house with the meter was being maintained. By year four they were like, we're really, things are great. This is what we needed. We got water. And so you reach Greenja and the other element is if you do one thing, if you make it all in one community, the community across the valley sees that and they're going to get angry and then you get disharmony as well. So I think if we were to do that it would. And we have been talking, we are looking at two new races domestically in Nepal at the moment that'll be more around the domestic market. And actually this year in Nepal we're working on something which has been a dream of mine. I wrote down a lot of goals in 2015. One of them we TikTok in Jordan with working with Invictus. That was one of my top three organizations to work with. The other was to get corporates in each country to match funds. So we get the match giving of our. Anything our fundraisers do is match in country. And we've just had a company in Nepal come up with that idea themselves to us and say hey, could we do this? Because this would be a really cool way of sponsoring this is amazing. And so because that then bridges that gap between that concept of just foreign investment, foreign aid, but actually it's like, well no, if this group of runners are coming over, they're Bringing that fundraising. They bring a week of their lives, then the least we can do is match on that. And then we can send up our team of people from our office to get involved as well. And everyone. And then this is a really, this is beautiful thing, and that's something I'm really excited about, is those kind of elements I'd like to really spend. If I had my dream life, it would be spending my time on that side of things. Funnily enough, despite the financial background, I would just. I would love to spend all my time just working the foundation stuff like, it's just. Yeah, awesome. Awesome.

And the last tradition that I want to cover on this podcast always is.

To ask for books that have helped.

Either helped you on your journey or you find yourself recommending to other people. There any books that particularly stand out that you would recommend?

Prisoners of Geography. Tim Marshall. It's about maps. If that doesn't titillate you enough, I don't know what will. It's about the maps. There's about three versions. He does a few different things, including his most recent book was about space and the future of space within geopolitics. And it makes you look at geopolitics in a way that you never have before in terms of thinking about how geography, topography, all of that side of things actually impacts political decisions and how the world interacts. He's also got another one and just you wait for it because it is fascinating about flags. And it's just. It's very. It may be very Sheldon Cooper, but it's definitely like one of the best books I've ever read. About flags. Well, no, it's all Scott, but it was about flags.

I can tell you that. Nobody's ever recommended those before and so that's brilliant. I love expanding the reading list in very different ways. Nick, this has been absolutely brilliant. I think this is fascinating. Where can people find out more it about. About Impact marathons.

So impact marathon.com it's as simple as that. Impact Marathon on Instagram and yeah, very easy to find us.

I'm going to be checking out and I will definitely be speaking to my family about this this evening and trying to work out whether they're on board or whether I'm taking my mates.

Awesome. I love it.

Thank you so much.

So, as mentioned right at the beginning of this podcast, I promised that I was going to give you 10 top tips. And after that fantastic interview with Nick, we touched on there about how he is getting locals to prepare food that actually the food's not Coming very far in terms of food Mars, and in this day and age, we need to be thinking about sustainability in terms of not only as athletes in terms of, from a racing perspective, but also in our day to day life in terms of what we choose to eat, where we choose to buy it from. So if you, if you click the link in the show notes below, you will be able to download 10 top tips for sustainability as an athlete.

What did you make of that?

Amazing. It's, it's another race, I think, on my bucket list of races. What about you?

Definitely. Which one? Which one would you pick of the ones you listed.

It's an adventure actually, isn't it? Rather than thinking of it as a race. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? I think this three races that he talked about or events that he talked about are so different as he explains them. I think it depends entirely on what you're looking for, I guess, in terms of what you want to go out and sort of help, support. But I think also, you know, just some of those surroundings would be just awesome, wouldn't they?

The ones that stood out to me were Guatemala and Nepal and both the scenery would be just spectacular. I think they'd be awesome, all incredible, wouldn't they?

So.

But I love the fact that you get that community, you build that community around the people that are there helping the local community. So I love the fact that you get that good feeling of helping the local community. The amazing feeling of kind of building that community, of going, we're gonna all get through this together. And then the run is just the sort of cherry on the top at the end. I think, I think that sounds right up my street, I think sounds fantastic.

I think, I think it's, I think it's brilliant. I think, you know, in terms of when you look at kind of teamwork that essentially is, you'll build, you are building a team, aren't you? And then everybody is supporting each other towards the end at that kind of, you know, the marathon that sort of happens at the end. And I love the idea of obviously from a food perspective, I love the idea of how he was talking about sustainability around food because that's such a massive thing at the moment, certainly in the world of sports. But, you know, everyone coming together around sort of eating and that, you know, more of a trip and an adventure rather than going and landing in a country, doing an event and leaving, you know, that for me is so much more.

I agree, I, I think there's loads there. And one thing that we didn't touch on in the episode, actually, but I. I picked up from listening to another podcast was the actual finances. And I really like the way he's doing done this because it always bugs me a little bit when people say, oh, can you sponsor me? I'm going to climb Clementjaro. You're like, well, okay, but am I actually just paying for you to go to Tanzania and climb Kilimanjaro? Whereas the way that he does it is you pay for the trip and then you raise money and whatever you raise. And he says the. I think the average is that people raise about a thousand pounds per person, but some people are raised 12,000 and some people raise a few hundred. I don't know if there's a minute minimum, but I like the fact that you pay your own way and then anything that you raise goes directly to the charity. I think that's a. That's a lovely thing, too.

We've talked about this a lot about looking for something different and a new challenge. And, you know, he was talking about goal setting actually as well, wasn't he? But, you know, a new. A new goal and a new focus and I think kind of event for many people. I think, especially off the back of COVID you know, wanting to do something slightly different in life as well. I think that, you know, that ticks a lot of boxes.

The other thing I love is the fact that he's got into running because he was in a bit of a mentally low patch and his boss said, why don't you need to go for a run? Then he obviously got into running a lot more seriously. But the fact that he's now created his business out of his passion. But not only that, he's also created a business out of his passion for helping areas of the world that need the Western world's help, I think that's a wonderful thing. I mean, it just must be so rewarding.

And actually, if you think about, you know, our professions or jobs in general, if we can build our profession in a way that we can be really that passionate about it, I think that's what we're all ultimately aiming for as well, aren't we?

It is. If you do it, you never work a day in your life, do you? I mean, it just sounds like. It sounds amazing. So another great episode of the podcast. If you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of Endurance podcast, we don't ask for you to pay for us. We don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple, give us a five star rating because it shows us you care. And if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that. But we really do appreciate, appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.