Triple Olympic Progress with Eilish McColgan

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding. And I'm laura siddall and this is the tribathlon podcast.

London was just such an incredible Olympics. Not only was it in London, it was my first games obviously, but the fact it was home Olympics just was another level entirely. Everything there was just such a big buzz and hysteria around it. The stadium was just packed out every single day with fans. So heading into Rio was just. Yeah, it was just completely different.

That was Ailish McColgan and this episode is. Is triple Olympic progress. Hi Will. Welcome back to the Tribathlon Podcast.

Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to see you again and look forward to a guest presenting it with you.

Yeah, no, it's very good to get you on as guest co host and to find out what's been happening since, since we chatted at the very start of this year. So I suppose let's kick off on that note. What's been happening with you and your athletes since the start of the year? Pick out some of the highlights.

Yeah, it's been a good year actually. I'm fortunate to coach quite a few pretty good athletes. Yeah, they're quite a talented bunch. I guess I'm quite good with those sort of people because I can relate to them both. That's all over because I can relate to them quite well. That is, you know, closer to where I used to, where I used to the sort of level that I used to race at. So it's, you know, I can, I can relate to it and I kind of know what to do to, to bring them on best with that sort of athlete really. But yeah, they're, they're doing well. I think we've still got, we've got a race this weekend which, which a lot of people are going to be in good shape for. But we've had highlights. I mean if we start with Ruth, she. Ruf Assell. She won her first pro racing Holcombe which is a really good race. So that was a, that was a good performance. She. We had a couple of guys qualify for Hawaii. So James. Yeah, James Ellis first up race really, really well in Ironman Estonia. The one that you did. He was, he was third overall. Pretty close to second overall actually. And the first guy ran away with it. But he, and he, he ran a 250. No, 249 run. Wow. Which is phenomenal. It's phenomenal age group running and he's. Yeah, he moved his swimming bike on a lot since we started.

So now just, just pause on Iron Man, Talon. Your mate mark Matthews got DQ'd there, didn't he?

Yeah, he did. Yeah.

I was, I was by coincidence, I was sitting next to him and Cat on the airplane and so I was chatting to them and he said that he was. He was old mates with you and he said, yeah, he went wrong on the run course, didn't he? Which I actually really nearly did myself.

Run course or bike course?

Run course.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah. It's a bit. I think he'll admit himself he didn't put much into the race and he takes full responsibility for his mistake and he's talented enough that he will lead, that he'll be right at pointy end in any race that he's done, no matter what preparation he's managed to do. So I think he was a bit disappointed because he was actually winning and he was looking. But it's a telling now, you know, I've been in the spot a few, a few times and you know, when you're leading the race, the. A lot of the marshals aren't. Aren't ready sometimes. And there also isn't. There isn't a constant stream of athletes for you to follow. So it's pretty common that the leader gets lost in. In races. And I, I fallen foul of it, I don't know, maybe five times before. Wow. It's really, it's really, really frustrating. Like sometimes you end up kind of riding a couple of K off course before you realize actually there's no, there's, you know, there's no race in sight here. No, I did it twice in Ironman uk and the second time I did it. So frustrating. I got this roundabout. I was like, right, don't go the wrong way here, don't go the wrong way here. And what did I do when I went totally the wrong way? There was no one, no one was guiding me. There was. It was confused, tired and. Yep, went off course, lost eight minutes and I was back. I was back amongst the age of this by the time I got back on the course and I was trying to ride through. So it happens, happens quite often, actually.

But yeah, I was amazed. I mean, actually, but I could understand, I could empathize because I came around a corner and it was quite a windy run through Tallinn and I started heading off. There was a fairly sharp turn right, having come out of a park and I started heading off into the park on the opposite side. And it was only because somebody ran behind me and went up the road that I realized my Mistake. But yeah, and I, I certainly had a stream of runners to follow. Um, so.

But yeah, yeah.

So Ruth, Ruth has done really well this year. We actually. I caught up with Ruth as guest co host because obviously I did Holcomb at the same time. Not in the same time, I might clarify. But at the same time.

But yeah. And so.

And you've had some athletes qualify for Kona, you were saying?

Yeah. So James Ellis qualified. He's. He's, he's a really like. He's. He's very, very, very talented at running. Running marathons off of the bike. He's actually a very good various cyclist as well. We're just about getting to. Getting him to show that on race day. Not that he. Not that. Not let's have many opportunities actually. Um, but he's racing nice as well this weekend, so bit of a. So where it worked out with the postponements. Um, anyway, that's James Giles, our mutual friend. Stroke. One of my athletes also qualified, which is, which is awesome. He's. I mean he puts a hell of a lot of Grafton, so he fully deserves it and he puts together a really good performance and I think he got PBS across the board, which I'm very happy with. Obviously that's what I'm looking for, some improvement from the guys I work with.

So he raced really well in Frankfurt, didn't he, in the. Yeah, he got his Kona slot. So Kona's postponed till 5th February, isn't it? Do you think that's going to help? I suspect it helps Giles because it gives him longer to recover. Do you think that's going to help most of your athletes or is it a bit of more of a hindrance to most of them?

I've got three who have qualified for this one and they're all not too fussed about it. And I think Ruth's not too fussed because there's more chance of Alistair being ready for. Alistair Brownlee being ready, being ready in February. So she's kind of thinking it'd be nice. Be nice to do that with him. Yeah, she's not a first. Plus she's improving it such a speed that she improves. Like half a year is a long time for her as an athlete and her development. And then Jim, who also qualified is, yeah, he's gonna race 20, 23 now because he's his mistress is giving birth in February. And then Giles I think is. It's not too fast, but the way I see it, to be honest, is you. I think if you, if it went ahead this year. I think it would be a bit of a disappointment. You're not, a lot of people aren't going to be able to get there for a start, which would be a shame because, you know, when you go to Hawaii, speaking from experience, you, when, when you, when you land there, it feels special. You know, you've got, you've got, you've got the buzz around the race, all these, all these different people from, from around the world, but you feel like you've genuinely got the, you know, the fittest guys on the planet there, the fittest age groups, the fittest pros on the planet there. And it feels, I think if you, if you had a dull down event with social distancing and, you know, most of the athletes haven't had a chance to be able to get there. I'm not sure you're getting the full Kona experience and I think that's, that's a shame, you know, if we're walking around with masks and all that stuff, I think it's just better it's the right call to leave it. Aside from, you know, the original reasons for canceling it, I think it's, it's a good call to, to postpone it. The only, I have to say though, the only, my only problem is I just can't. I'm, I'm very dubious about February happening as well. I mean, like, you know, we can keep hopeful and keep doing our best to, you know, we'll prepare our athletes for it and keep, keep our, keep our eyes open and ears open. But it's, you know, is it going to be sorted by then or Iron man just continually like, you know, trying to, trying to kind of push it down the line and cross the fingers and I'm not sure they know what to do to invest. I'm not sure anyone knows what to do.

Well, I think, I mean it's clearly going to be massively challenging. I was actually so I sat next to Mark and Kat Matthews were, sat the opposite side of the aisle. The lady that sat next to me had won her age group and she was like, well, do I accept the place or not? Because I really, you know, I've got a family, I can't really go to Hawaii in six weeks time or whenever, whatever the time difference was. But equally, I might get, you know, this might be my only shot at getting it. And I was also, so it got me thinking, saying, well actually, I mean, I was about 40th in my age group, so in normal circumstances, zero chance of Getting a slot on that basis, but actually with lots of people unable to travel because I think at the time, I think this might be still. I'm not sure it's still the case. But you had to quarantine in the US for 14 days before you could get onto Hawaii. Well, clearly that's going to rule out nearly everybody anyway, isn't it? So, as you say, it would be a nightmare to do it, but feel like you've done it because everybody else couldn't do it, as opposed to. Because you really deserve to do it.

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I think that that's. Obviously, it's not. I mean, of course some people will be, will be, will be very happy to take the spot. That's as well down further. Nor. But it's, it's not the way that it's not, it's obviously not the way that you want to qualify and it's going to, you know, you'll get, you'll, you'll get to go to the big dance, but I'm not sure it's. Yeah, it's not how you'd want to qualify. You want to, you want to legit work your way up to being one of the best age groups and then, and then get your slot and race, race, race there with pride and.

Yeah, I totally agree with that and.

Depends who you are now.

Yeah, but it also mean. But also you're right from a travel perspective. I mean, at the moment, the UK looks fairly positive in the sense that we might be okay to travel certainly between now and the end of the year, whether we get another lockdown, obviously, who knows? But the UK is only one factor, isn't it? And Hawaii has obviously got its own issues and US has got its own issues. And so, yeah, it's, it's just a lot of unknowns, isn't it? One thing that did manage to happen was the inaugural Collins Cup. So what did you make of the Collins Cup?

Okay. Yes, here we go. Like, I've been. Even when I was racing a couple of years ago, we were already talking about the Collins cup and it finally happened, finally found out what it is and people started to qualify. And I thought there was some positives and negatives about it. First of all, positives, I think it's fantastic that they put on such a great event, such a big event with all the big names in the sport, all sorts of legends as team captains like Norman Stadler and, you know, Simon Whitfield. And it's a, it was a. I spoke to The Challenge CEO who's also running a brand called Never Second, who we're, I'm, who I'm an ambassador for now. So he was. Yeah, he was there. He was, he's obviously the big, one of the big dogs heading up the board at Challenge and he said it was a, it was a fantastic event to be around. Real, real celebration of the sport after such a bleak, such a bleak year or two. So I thought, I thought it's fantastic that they got off the road. It was really. There was obviously some, you know, some fantastic athletes there and some amazing performances. I thought it was, I just, for me it was, I'm more interested in seeing an actual, an actual stand up triathlon race. I think I was much more enamored with, with like Challenge Daytona last year or a 70.3 world champs or that sort of thing. I mean, let's just say St. George will, will capture me a lot more than, than this format of the Collins Cup. Word. And I think one of the things I just didn't, I didn't really get the, the, the Europe American and other format. It's just the problem is Europe's biggest, by far too strong. And there was never any, there was never any, any, any contest in my opinion. So it didn't, it didn't even, it didn't interest me in the slightest. You know, it was, it was given to me that the UK were gonna, we're gonna trounce it and I think it's, it's a bit. Yeah, yeah, it didn't really interest me. I think even if it, even if it, it was more, more equally spread, it still wouldn't, still wouldn't really interest me. I'm more interested in the race, in the race and the performances and you know, I like to see, I like to see, you know, maybe, maybe everyone, everyone works together. Maybe, maybe, maybe an underdog wins it or maybe Eden can, can actually be, you know, be Yam Padona head to head. I think that's more, that's more what I was, what I'd be interested in. And the same on the ladies side.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I kind of, I get what you mean. And as somebody that has, you know, spent their life in the sport, I can, I can easily see that this would be, it's a different format. It's not what, you know, it's not what you've grown up with and it's also, you know, as a connoisseur of sport, you know, it's not what you, you know, you Understand the sport really well. I suppose where I thought it was good was like, I mean, I only actually got the chance to watch the highlights. I couldn't watch it live because we were just heading out on. Heading down to Cornwall that day. But I watched the highlights and I thought it was a good. And actually so I suggested that my dad, who never watches, never watched anything to do with triathlon unless I was in it was. He watched the highlights and he did actually watch the highlights and enjoy it. So I think it's another good way of bringing in a different audience that makes them, you know, kind of. I suppose it drags in people like the Ryder cup would drag in people to golf that wouldn't ordinarily sit and watch the Open. Maybe.

Yeah. I think the more complaints before I say some positives. It was long.

Well, and that's why the highlights thing is probably the way to do it.

Yeah, it was long and yeah, I think from what. From what. Yeah, some points that other people picked up. Being nice to see some more data and especially accurate data. I think that would be good. I mean, I think one of the things that'd be really good to see is some power data, for example, fresh on the screen. It's still a big secret. Tour de France riders still hide their data. Protra fits on the whole. Apart from a few people like Skipper or Sam Long or Lana Sanders. They always hide the data. But it's fantastic reading and really I think it's very interesting to the. To the spectator. I mean, having raced these guys, you know, it's. I can. But racing challenge Challenge hurting in Denmark and Andres Andreas Dre was racing and he was. He kicked my ass on the bike. He put maybe eight minutes into me on the bike, something like that. And I was just chatting him off the race casually, you know, ask him. I tried to get out of him what. How much power he pushed and he pushed 360 watts for the. For the two hour. For the two hours that he was riding the 90K. And you know, that's just. It's just fascinating. I mean like how, you know, it'd be really good to have those sort of stats, you know, impressive stuff to pump out to the audience. I think there was. I think that that would be nice being to add. I think.

Yeah, I think. I think you're right. It would make it more engaging and it would also probably make it more engaging for the experienced triathlete like you, but also more educational for the people that are coming to. Coming to it blind really. So I Thought it was be interesting to see how it evolves over the years, I suppose something. Sorry, go on.

It's the first attempt so, you know, I went to uni with the CEO of PTO and he, you know, he said himself, yeah, it was a great weekend. Not perfect. We can, we've got some learning points and we'll implement them next time, but I think it's good and there was some fantastic performances. Obviously they're, you know, good. Yeah, yeah, there were some good, exciting head to heads in there. So it was, I enjoyed it. But I think, I think for me, as I said, yeah, there's some, some things that could be improved.

Fantastic. And something else that's evolved over time is you mentioned briefly you've got athletes racing in the Vitruvian. I'm racing in a Vitruvian on Saturday as well. Um, you know, one of my first podcast interviews was with Mark Shaw who at the time around pacesetters events but sadly that fell into administration throughout the COVID period. But thankfully Paul Cowling, who I know you know, has taken on the Dam Buster and the Vitruvian and both are happening at Rutland Water as my local triathlon this, this weekend. So I'm really looking forward to getting involved within them. Have you, have you ever raced either of them and how. And also any predictions for what's going to happen at the weekend?

No, I haven't raced actually. I mean I would like, I'd like to race Vitruvian actually at some point. But it's, yeah, it's one of those, it's one of those classic British races, isn't it? That's, that's been around, been around for a long time and it's, it's very popular. It's one of the, one of the highlights of the year on the, on the domestic circuit. And I think, you know, there's been some fantastic races, you know, because of the troubles abroad with COVID I think it's, it's put more, it's put more emphasis on the domestic circuit and I think it's, you know, in my opinion there's some fantastic racing. You can still have an amazing triathlon experience without, without having to hop on a plane. So yeah, this weekend it'll be a good one. It's, I'm pleased that it's still going and Paul Cowling, yeah, stood up and took on the event. Is it the Dam Buster as well?

Dam Buster as well this weekend. Although that's just the one off this year. My understanding is, I think Next year they'll go back to doing them at different times in the year.

Yeah, so it's not a competitive race, I think. I'm happy to say that. I think we've got in my team, right, Race Club, we've got at least two people that can really fight for the first for the podium. So personally I'm hoping for a couple of guys or at least one guy from Racing Club on the podium and I haven't looked at the restart list but it normally brings in some really good athletes. So yeah, it would be a good weekend. I'm looking forward to cheering you on as well.

Yeah, fantastic. Thank you. Well, I dare say I'll be a lot further behind than the two people that are suggesting that you might get on the podium. But no, I'm looking forward to seeing you there and really looking forward to racing there again. So Will, it's been brilliant to catch up. Good luck on a Saturday for all your athletes and yeah, look forward to catching up with you then. And yeah, we'll, we'll keep in touch and, and yeah, good luck for Kona as well.

Yeah, thanks buddy. Just. Yes, sending my best wishes to everyone, to all your listeners and hope they had a good, had a good season and finish off the season well and yeah, look forward, hopefully catch up with you on here and 2022 and if.

And if people do want to find out more about Riot racing and coaching, is there a website? How's the best way to.

Yeah, we have a website. We're on Instagram quite a lot. So if you can, if anyone wants to get in touch with us, they can shoot us. A message on Instagram is probably, probably the best way. But if you Google Racing Club then you'll also find admin email in there as well.

Fantastic. And I'll put that, I'll put, we'll put that in the show notes as well. So brilliant. Great to catch up. Will, thanks very much.

Thanks buddy. Cheers.

Aish McColgan is a Scottish middle distance athlete who's represented Team GB in the last three Olympic Games. Initially the 3000 meter steeplechase in London 2012, then the 5000 meters in Rio and in Tokyo. She competed in both the 5,000 meters and the 10,000 meters and she's even now targeting a fourth Olympic Games in Paris, but this time competing in the marathon. And at this point she hasn't even ever run a marathon, which is just astonishing. Anyway, coming from amazing running pedigree because she is the daughter of Olympic silver medal runner Liz McColgan and and Northern Irish record holder Peter McColgan. I really wanted to get to know sort of what were the pressures of growing up in an accomplished running family. I wanted to understand how she progresses through the different running disciplines. But more than anything, I really wanted to get under the bonnet of what the Tokyo Olympics was actually like, and particularly in comparison to London 2012 and also in Rio, given all of the COVID restrictions. And it is an absolutely fascinating conversation. I know you're going to really enjoy listening to the interview with Ailish McColgan. So, Eilish, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for joining us. So, for those people that don't know that much about you, do you want to kick things off by telling us your story? Tell us a bit about how you got into running, tell us a bit about your family, because obviously you come from a running family. And then tell us key events that have happened in your career so far.

I'd say I typically got into running similarly to most young kids. It was around primary six, primary seven, my last years at primary school, where my PE teacher just put me into, like, the local cross country. She obviously saw that my name was McColgan and, like, both my mom and my dad were professional athletes and my mom was Olympic silver medalist and world champion back in 1991. So I think they just assumed that I would be fast because of my name. So, yeah, my PE teacher put me into the local cross country and it was the first time I never honestly even really thought about the sport because I had no awareness that my parents were runners. In all honesty, I just thought everyone went out for runs every now and again. So, yeah, from there I just absolutely loved it. Didn't come away with any medals or fast times or anything, but I remember getting asked, like, scouted to go along to the local running club and as a little kid, like, you're only, I don't know, 11 years old, 12 years old, like, it's such a big deal. You feel so special that someone scouted you and, I mean, they probably asked top 15 kids or something to come along to the local club. So, yeah, I went along with my friend Ian at the time, begged my mum and dad to take me to the Dundee Hockle Harriers and, yeah, just haven't, haven't looked back at all. It's been from, yeah, from, as I said, Age 12 up until now. I'm still a member Dundee Hawks to this day. Started off like most kids do in all sports. I did high jump. I Did hurdles, sprint hurdles, but for me it was always the distance that I sort of not only enjoyed but seemed to excel at the most. So, yeah, over the years I've just slowly built up from sort of competing over 8 hundreds to 1500s, 3k, 5k, 10k. And this year I'll actually do my first half marathon. So, yeah, that's how I got involved into the sport. And yeah, I'm just excited now to see this sort of next chapter of my career.

And I think I'm right in saying that you are one of the only, if not the only person that's done three different Olympics with three different disciplines, is that correct?

Um, I'm not actually. I don't know the stats on it. I haven't been told if that's correct or not, but I can't imagine there's a huge amount of athletes that have done three different events. It's probably quite normal to do two, whether it's a 5K, a 10K or a marathon. Like most athletes will move up in distances, in disciplines as well, so. But the unusual one for me is the fact that I came into the sport as a steeplechaser and not a lot of athletes will have tried the steeplechase. It's just entirely different to flat running. There's so much more impact going through the body and it's quite a. I suppose it's quite a daunting event for a lot of people with regards to injury. Injury risk of taking part in the steeplechase. And ultimately that's. That's why I've no longer do the steeplechase is due to injuries that have been caused by that, by that event. And um. But yeah, I was stable chase in London 2012, I was the 5000 meters in Rio 2016 at Olympics, and then this year in Tokyo, I represented over the 5k and the 10k. So I'd love to make that 4. I'd love to go to the marathon in Paris. That's definitely sort of my main goal, my main aim now for the next three years, which is really exciting. Um, so, yeah, I think that would be very unusual to have four disciplines with. I'm sure there can't be many athletes that have done that before.

Well, and who knows, if you keep going on that trajectory, maybe the Olympics after that they might have introduced ultra running and you can kind of gradually creep up to that as well. So tell me about, tell me about London 2012. I mean, obviously being a home Olympics, it must have been incredibly special. But right at the Start of your career. So tell me a bit about London 2012 and how that whole event went for you.

London 2012 was just. I was thrown into the deep end, to be honest. Like, I had come into the sport, I had started taking it a bit more seriously my last couple of years at university, because before then I was just a typical student like everyone else, going out and partying. And it wasn't really until 2011 that I decided that I really wanted to. The Olympic Games were coming up and it sort of gave me a. A focus and something to aim for, that I thought, I want to see if I can potentially get as close as I can to making that Games. I didn't know if I could do it, but I suffered a really bad injury at the end of 2011 and I was motivated than ever to get back, not just to get back running again, but to see if I could make my first sort of senior GB team. And it happened very quickly for me. I started making big improvements and the next thing I knew, I'd qualified for the Olympic Games. So it was a bit surreal going from competing at Grangemouth Stadium. We had the Scottish University Championships and there was about, I don't know, 10 people in the stands to then making the Olympic Games with how many thousand we had in there. It really was. It was just incredible. And it's something that I'll always remember, something that I'll always reminisce on and look back and have really fond memories of, because it was just insane. The whole Olympic experience was just far outweighed anything I could ever imagine before. I remember just being petrified, like, on the start line and them calling out my name, and I was so scared. I thought I was even going to cry. Like, I'm not that type of emotional person, but it was just very overwhelming. It wasn't something that I could have mentally even prepared for. I even remember, like, standing on my balcony on the first morning and Jennis was getting announced to the crowd and we could hear them from the village, standing on the balcony in our. In the Olympic village. We could hear the crowd cheering for Jess Ennis. And it was just a really incredible moment. But, yeah, it was to this day, certainly one of the best memories I have in my career so far. And I honestly don't believe there'll be another championship that will ever, ever outweigh that.

I mean, it's absolutely incredible how quickly you went from sort of taking the sport seriously to getting into the. Into London 2012. What were your mates from university that you'd been partying with only sort of a few, if not that long before. What were they saying when suddenly you're turning up in Team gb?

To be honest, a lot. A lot of my friends didn't really know that I was a runner or that I was trying to be a runner. They knew that, I mean, I would still be very committed to my training all throughout my university days, but I suppose they just assumed it was. It was a hobby. It was nothing more than that. They thought I was a little bit crazy because we would obviously have nights out and party and I would then still go to training the next morning. But I was always very dedicated throughout that time because running for me was just something that I love to do. I was passionate about it. So I think when I stopped seeing them, seeing my friends as often, they were a little bit confused as to what I was doing, why I needed to perhaps dedicate more time, more sleep, more recovery, towards a hobby, what was essentially a hobby. But, yeah, it wasn't until actually after the Olympics was over that a few of them had obviously saw me on the TV and realized that I had made the Olympic Games, which was, I think, they found a little bit crazy. They didn't realize quite that, yeah, I suppose that I had this ambition and this sort of dream. But, yeah, it's been a long time since my university days and I feel like they're very proud that I've now made my third championship. I think they just think it's a completely different person, I think, to probably the person that they met at university. But, yeah, that's part and parcel of growing up and becoming an adult.

Amazing. And your dad was a steeplechaser, wasn't he? So was that what inspired that? Was that what inspired you to start the steeplechase, or was it something else?

Yeah, I'd say so. Like, I just. I've never been, I suppose, hugely confident in my, perhaps my ability as a runner. Like, I've always, as I said, I've loved to run. It's something I love to do, I'm passionate about. But I never had these big dreams and goals and ambitions to, like, become an Olympic champion or make an Olympic Games. Like, I just thought I was so far removed from that level of athletics. But the steeplechase was like a new and upcoming event for women. It'd only really been introduced, I think. I think it was 2009, was the first, like, major championship I'd watched on the TV where it'd been introduced or somewhere around then. And I suppose because it was new. The standard was a little bit lower. And so it was the first event that I tried that I suppose I went into a competition and I won it straight away. I won the Scottish Junior League or whatever race it was I competed in. And I thought, oh, I'm Maybe I'm quite good at this. And it gave me a little bit of confidence. And I think that confidence then went a long way because I started to believe, oh, maybe I could make a Scottish team sometime. And I did. And then I thought, actually, maybe I could make a British team. And then I did. And during it, it just gave me, I suppose, the confidence to believe in myself a little bit more. And it also just opened doors that were never. Had never been open before. And once I sort of made my first GB team, I started to realize, actually, yeah, I could make a career of this. This could be something. I could maybe go to the Olympic Games, I could go to the World Championships. I could, yeah, I could maybe turn this into something. And so it was definitely the event that I suppose I had known through my dad, but I'd never realized that women could do it until later on. And so, yeah, it was just a really nice way to, I suppose, introduce me into the elite side of athletics, because I felt like I was quite far removed from that. But, yeah, it was a fun event. It was something new, something different. And I do miss it now. I know obviously it's been a long time now since I've done it, but for me, it's always going to have a, I suppose, a soft place in my heart because it was the event that really brought me to where I am today.

So I know injury stopped you from continuing with the steeplechase, so tell us a little bit about that. But also, I suppose the question is, would you still be steeplechasing if injury hadn't stopped you? Knowing what you know now?

Yeah, there's no doubt that I would still be in the steeplechase. I think I just wouldn't have known any better, to be honest. I would have just continued thinking that that was my event and I would improve, and I have no doubt that I would continue to improve in that. But I think it's a tough event with regards to the impact. And your body has to be so robust, so strong, in order to really be able to handle the amount of barriers and jumping and as well as the run training as well. The flat element of the race is important, too. You have to have a lot of strength and endurance, even just to. To run a good 3k as well. So I think for me, the injury side was always what let me down and I wish I knew what I do now. I think I certainly would have approached the steeplechase training far differently. I would have got myself a lot stronger in the gym and built up my body a little bit more before I attempted it. I sort of, because I came from, yeah, just being a student thrown into the sort of elite side of athletics. My body just wasn't prepared for that type of impact and that type of training. So yeah, in 2011, as I said, I'd sort of just got into competing at a bit of a higher level and really focusing on my athletics. I made my first ever Diamond League meeting down. It was actually in Crystal palace down in London and I was so excited to be part of, part of this race with like all these girls that I'd watched on tv, like they were far better than me and I just was so happy that they had put me in the race as like a young 20 year old GB athlete to make up the numbers essentially. And yeah, 600 ago in that race, I just felt my foot just popped essentially on the last water jump barrier. I landed a little bit awkwardly. It had been raining and I just felt it pop. I knew instantly I'd broken something, but I had 600 meters to run. I was live on the BBC. My first big competition and so I kept running. I kept running for the last lap and a half and I did a lot of damage on it. I obviously should have stopped at the time, but again, just the adrenaline, the excitement of it, I just ran through the pain and when I finished across the line around a PB I, I ran a qualifying time actually for the World Championships, unfortunately couldn't go because I couldn't walk after that I had to go and get a scan. I got straight back up to Scotland, I got a scan just at my local hospital and unfortunately I'd completely shattered my navicular bone, which is like one of the main sort of component bones in your foot. And because I'd continued running, actually damaged all the bones around that as well. So I was straightened for surgery. I had five screws, a metal and a metal plate to cap all the bones together. Um, and yeah, that was my first serious injury, my first big sort of race for the steeplechase, big sort of competition for me. Qualified for the World Championships, which would have been incredible, but sadly I was, yeah, off my feet for a long time after that.

But you were ahead of the game in getting a carbon plate Fitted?

Yeah. And you know what, it's weird. Like, at the time the doctor told me that I would. He actually told me I would never run again. And I just was hysterical. And the guy just. The doctor just couldn't understand why I was so worked up about it, because it was just a local doctor at my hospital. So he obviously didn't know that I had these sort of big ambitions of making the Olympic Games or that I was. Wanted to be an elite athlete. He just thought. Thought that I would be happy just going out for little jogs. He said, oh, you could. I could be a jogger is what he said. And to me, that was like, devastating because obviously I wanted to be at the Olympics. I wanted to run fast, run faster than ever. And he also didn't tell me as well. He only told me a year later, once I qualified for the Olympic Games, and he saw me on the tv, that the plate that is in my foot is a prototype. So. So they had like the first one in the world that they had created and molded to try and bunch together the bones that I had sort of damaged. Usually it's just a straightforward pen for a navicular fracture, but I had five pins and then this sort of weird molded plate prototype from over in America or something. So, yeah, he didn't tell me that at the time, but he was very glad that the prototype seemed to be working.

Certainly seems to have worked okay, doesn't it?

Yeah, I think the company that had created this prototype were very, very, very pleased that, yeah, my foot was fully working again. And I know in all honesty, I mean, it took a long time to. I still don't quite have feeling in that foot around that sort of area. There's sort of a numb sensation. It took a long time for the pain to subsidize as well. It took probably about three, four years to sort of fully get rid of the pain. But I honestly cannot thank them enough for what they did because I have not had a single issue with that area of my foot anyway since. And I've got back running faster than ever before. So, if anything, it was a bit of a blessing in disguise. It made me more motivated and determined to. That this definitely was what I wanted to do. I wanted to come to the sport and I think that injury really finalised that for me.

Yeah, it sounds like it polarized your thoughts. I know you say you're incredibly grateful for the work they did. I suspect they're pretty grateful for what you've done since you had that plate. I can't think of a better case study for endorsing the product. So I'm sure they're pretty pleased with you too. So, obviously injury then stopped you continuing to do the steep chase after London 2012. So how easy a decision was it to switch the 5,000 meters? And what was the Rio? How did Rio compare to. To London?

I actually didn't stop the steeplechase until 2015. I suffered an ankle fracture in 2015, a bit of a freak accident. And I actually just couldn't, even though, again, I had another two screws put into my foot through surgery. And when we started back running at the start of 2016, it was just painful, honestly, every single step, even though it felt like it was still fractured. But I went back to the doctor and he said, there's nothing more we can do, like, it's healed. You just have some sort of chronic pain there now. And just to get on with it, essentially just try and run as best as I could through it. So every single step was painful. And I could barely go up on my toes properly. And I just knew that the thought, the reality of trying to do a stable chase on a foot like that, that wasn't functioning properly, that was very painful to run on. It just wasn't going to happen. So in the very start of the year, we sort of. I wrote down on a bit of paper the qualifying times for the Olympic Games in Rio for 1500, 5000 meters and 10,000 meters. And I had never really, to be honest, done a 5k properly at that point. And I never done a 10k at all. But again, I just had ambitions to make, to make that Rio Olympics. I wanted to be there. I knew that I wouldn't make over the steeper chase, just physically and mentally. I just couldn't push through the pain, it was so sore. But I knew that I could run. I could run on the flats and run through the pain a little bit easier on the flat surface. So, yeah, we just. That was the plan I set up. I stuck this bit of paper to my fireplace in the living room and just continued training and working out a plan as to how could we switch events and still make the Olympic Games. And in my first race of the season, I went over to Flagstaff, altitude training for a good couple of months. And again, I had to change all my training because usually I would run twice a day most days, and I just couldn't because, again, the pain. So I started cross training. I started aqua jogging, um, and just really limited my running to. I can't even remember what my mileage was. It was. It was crazyly low. It might have been 30 miles a week running. And everything else was on the cross trainer. Um, and in my first race of the season, I really surprised myself and I. I took something like 40 seconds off my PB run, an Olympic qualifier, and like, huge, huge PB over the 5,000 meters. And I think that was probably the first turning point that we realized that actually I was quick enough in the flat, like, to give myself a little bit of confidence that I could maybe do it on the flat. I could qualify for competitions now as a flat runner rather than relying on the steeple chase all the time. Um, and also we almost find, like a new method of training as well. Realizing that I don't have to do as much mileage as I maybe initially thought, and I don't have to follow the same training plan as. As other elite athletes. I have to do something that works for me. It's a little bit unusual cross training as much as I do and running as little as I do to compete over those distance events. But we just found a formula that seemed to work for me and allowed me to stay injury free and robust and in one piece. And that really made the big difference for heading into the Rio Games.

And how was the Rio Games experience?

It sounds bad saying it, but I think London was just such an incredible Olympics. Not only was it in London, it was my first Games, obviously, but the fact it was home Olympics just was another level entirely. Everything, there was just such a big buzz and hysteria around it. The stadium was just packed out every single day with fans. So heading into Rio was just. Yeah, it was just completely different. It was very quiet in the stadium. There were some mornings where they're just a lot of seats were empty, so it didn't have that same buzz that I felt that London had. So, yeah, it was unusual games. There was a lot of people getting sick. There was a lot of concerns over Zika virus and all this stuff. I feel like there's always something that the media tried to stir up ahead of a major championship like that. So, yeah, it was a. It was cool to be in Brazil. First time there. It was a really amazing country and we didn't get the chance to explore as much as we liked, but it still was a really cool experience from that side of things, like visiting places that never I would get the chance to go and visit before. So that was really cool. But, yeah, it was. It was no London 2012.

And how did your race go in Rio.

Considering I had gone from not walking at the start of the year and going through surgery and rehab and it was as good as it probably could have went. I mean, I qualified for the final. I think I ran a PB or close to a PB at the time, low 15 minutes. And yeah, I can't remember I was in the final, maybe 10th or 12th in the final. So considering where I'd come from with regards to surgery switching event, I mean, that's as much as I could physically have asked for from my body. So yeah, I was happy enough with that. It was certainly less nerve wracking. I felt like mentally I was in a much better position to cope with the nerves of it being a big competition, Olympic Games, to cope with the pressure of being a major championship. I think London really, really taught me a lot with regards to how to prepare for a major champs like that. And although it was almost being thrown in the deep end in London, I think it certainly helped now for every major championship since, I'm sure, yeah, I'm.

Sure it's, it's giving you amazing standing.

You did.

Am I right in saying you roommate, your roommate in Rio was Beth Potter?

Well, it was weird. We had like a, you have like an apartment that you share. I actually had my own room. I say my own room. It was essentially a cupboard that was very back of the apartment. It had like no windows or anything. But they said if someone wants to sleep in there, they could. And because a lot of people were getting sick, there was like some sort of virus going through the like sickness bug going through the village. So I said, great. I was coming in very late anyway. So I said, I'll come in late. I'll stay in the little Harry Potter cupboard room and keep myself safe in there. So I actually can't quite remember who was in my apartment. Honestly, my memory is awful. But I think it was Beth Potter. Steph Twell, Lenny Waite. I think we had a pretty Scottish representative apartment as far as I'm aware. That was who was in there. But again, I came in very late. I was literally maybe in just two days before my competition and then straight out afterwards. So I missed a lot of the Olympics, to be honest. And I think Beth maybe got sick as well and had to sort of quarantine in another apartment. So, yeah, didn't get the chance to hang out, particularly with anybody.

No, I've interviewed Beth on the podcast. She did get sick. You're absolutely right. But I was going to ask you, given your kind of newfound Cross training. You weren't tempted, like Beth, to switch towards triathlon at any point?

Absolutely no chance. I honestly cannot stand swimming. I have a huge respect for anybody that can swim a length because I can run all day long, like literally all day long. But you put me in swimming pool and I swim one length and I'm just out of breath and everything's sore. My arms, my lungs. Honestly, I just. I hate it. I hate it so much. Um, so cycling, I can. I can get by. I mean, I go in the walk bike and evenings and I go on the spin bike and evenings. I've not ever cycled outdoors sort of as a training session or anything. But indoor cycling, I can get on by that. I can get by. Um, but, yeah, swimming. So, yeah, there might be maybe a duathlon perhaps, but certainly they won't. There will never, ever be a triathlon in my future.

So then tell me what the Tokyo experience is like, because I'm sensing there's a consistency in terms of trend that you've gone from the most kind of, probably most partying around and most enthusiastic Olympics in London for. For being a home athlete to a slightly quieter Rio to a, I would imagine, an even quieter Tokyo. So what was the whole Tokyo experience like?

Yeah, again, I feel just so spoiled by London that I'm definitely on a downward trajectory with regards to Olympics. But Tokyo, to be honest, the fact that they managed to even host an event in itself really was spectacular. And I think, yeah, it wasn't the Olympics that any of us were dreaming about. And of course it would have been nice to have spectators in the stadium and things like that, but I think Tokyo just did such a good job at just holding the event in the first place. And I can't thank the volunteers enough as well. Honestly, the volunteers every single day just made our life so much better. Like, they were constantly smiling and waving and. Yeah, I just can't even explain it. Like, I took so many videos when I was there and the volunteers really made the championship in all honesty, like, it can if you can get a little bit down. When you think about it, when it's Olympic Games and yeah, there's no spectators and everyone's having to wear a mask and you have to spit into a little Covid sample test every single morning. There's so many restrictions. You couldn't watch other sports, you couldn't really mix with any other countries. It was very, very strict protocols when we got there. But, yeah, the volunteers really just made the whole Games and it was still a really cool Experience, like, it just makes me more motivated to go back to Tokyo at some point. Like I want to definitely want to race there, whether it's a half marathon, whether it's the Tokyo marathon. At some point, like, I would love to go back to Japan because although it was under really weird circumstances, I still had one of the best experiences. And I think, as I said, yeah, the volunteers really made that, that experience for us and just made us feel so at home. So, yeah, I would definitely love to go back to Tokyo once the world sort of gets back to normal again and there are less restrictions and we can maybe visit other parts of the country. I mean, it's definitely somewhere that's high up on my list now to go back and explore as a tourist. So yeah, it would definitely be something I'm looking forward to in the future.

It's definitely, I mean, I think it, you know, it's a, it's brilliant that the event happened and you know, despite. Because there was obviously a lot of resistance from the Japanese people, according to the media anyway, so it's fantastic that it happened. And I think I've just seen some photos of Sid, who's my usual co host. She's not co host for this episode because she's out in Tokyo herself as a, as a reserve guide for Paralympics, but just saw some photos of her cycling around in Japan and it just looks stunning. I think it's probably the country that's top of my bucket list. It does look fantastic with the culture and the climate and everything. It was just an amazing spectacle to see on the tv. And you know, I think with every Olympics that goes by, I get more and more into them and you start watching sports that you would never be watching at any other time in an Olympic cycle. But you find yourself watching skateboarding, BMXing, synchronized swimming, all sorts. And so talk me through the two races that you or the two disciplines you were competing in. So 5,000 meters, you didn't make the final because of potentially being clipped. So tell me a bit about that 5,000 meter race first.

Yeah, I was really, really disappointed with that. Just I think a lot of the last sort of two years, I'd say a lot of athletes just haven't raced outside their country due to Covid. So they just haven't raced on sort of the international circuit. And I think people were just very race rusty and I mean jostling and a little bit of pushing and shoving and clipping is, is pretty normal within championship races. But this was just another level. Like I literally from the gun to when I almost fell at 600 to go, I was constantly being clipped from behind to the point where I thought my shoe was just going to come off a few times because it was just incessant. It didn't stop. Um, again, there was a lot of even like people shouting in the race saying, stop it, stop doing that. And even I was saying it, please stop clipping me, stop clipping my shoe, stop doing it. And again, that's not the way you should be thinking when you're racing in the middle of the Olympic Games. And I actually shout, I actually swore at one point and the girl moved to the inside and started clipping Segai, the Ethiopian and she started then shouting and swearing. So it was a really weird, like, weird race to be part of. And again, I think it just comes down to, yeah, race rustiness. I think a lot of athletes just haven't had that. They've done time trials perhaps in their own countries where there's been a pacemaker and it's been dead strung out and that's the way it is. But a lot of these athletes just haven't been in the diamond leagues recently or world challenges. It's been a really unusual past two years. So yeah, 600 ago I got a really bad clip from the inside and then very quickly from the outside and I just lost my balance. I actually twisted my ankle quite badly at 600, but I continued, obviously finished the race on it. Um, but yeah, for the next, I was about to say the next couple of days, but actually even till now the ankle's been pretty bad. I'm trying my best to manage what is essentially some sort of damage to the ligaments on the outside of my ankles. So I've got sort of heavy strapping on my ankle every single day to try and allow me to run now. And just doing everything we can. Icing a lot, a lot of ibuprofen, volts, roll, gel, compression. Honestly, just every single day now, just managing it to try and get to the end of the season because I'm in good shape and I know I'm in good shape. So it was frustrating to, yeah, for that to happen in the Olympic Games. But I suppose it's part and parcel of racing and I think you'll see from that championship, I mean I wasn't the only person to almost fall over. There was a lot of people all over the floor from 800 meters right the way through to 10Ks every single men and women. So yeah, there was a lot of pushing and shoving And I think, as I said, it maybe just comes down to race rustiness and just not being used to competing. So, yeah, a lot of disappointment over that.

Yeah, it's really interesting. And yes, you know, hugely frustrating when you've trained so long. You know, you've changed for five years to do something and then. And then something like that impacts the race. And what about the. What about the 10,000 meters? Was it. Was there sort of similar rustiness in the 10,000 meters? And how did that race go for you?

I'd say after the 5k, my head was just. Obviously I was so upset having. I just felt like I couldn't control that. I mean, you can't control what other people do and sometimes there is just a little bit of bad luck comes your way and so. So I just wanted to head home because I was prepared the best that I could possibly Prepare for that 5k. I really felt I could go into the final and run a big PB and get as close as I could to that. Those top three, top five position. So, yeah, it took a good few days of, I suppose, to just mentally get myself back in it for the 10k. And my body was just completely battered as well, like from the ankle and all that. Right side. I think, again, just because I was getting clipped so much and twisting so much from. From the pushing and shoving that, yeah, it took a. It's taken a little longer than I would like to calm down. So I was a little bit unsure heading into the 10 how I would feel. But, yeah, I just wanted to give it everything I could and at least finish that race knowing that there was nothing more in my body. I couldn't give anything more than that. And so. So there was still obviously a lot of clipping and pushing in the 10, but less so, I think, because the race was taken out quite hard by two of the Japanese athletes that were obviously trying to run personal best times and we definitely had a lot more space. Even though there was more women in the 10k, it was strung out a hell of a lot quicker from the gun. And to be honest, that probably suits me the best. It suits me the most having a bit more space around me to run. I have a very large. I've got big giraffe legs, so I have a big long stride length that does clip people, whether it's their feet. Sometimes I clip people's hands because they're. Obviously I'm quite tall as well. So, yeah, it's just part and parcel of racing and I suppose I just have to get myself in slightly better positions where I can. And the 10 key, I definitely was, was much easier to do that and didn't feel great. I definitely went through a bad patch where I wasn't sure I was going to finish. But again, I don't know if that was maybe just the heat and humidity towards the end of the race maybe started to ramp up a little bit, but I'm happy enough with my performance there. Around 31 04. Um, and I mean in that heat, humidity, um, I can't really have done any more than that. I gave it everything I had. I finished really strongly, which I'm pretty proud of. And yeah, not, not far off my, my pb, not far off my mum's Scottish record. So, yeah, I'm satisfied enough with that, really. I, If I was being greedy, I might have wanted to have two more places higher. Like, realistically, that's. I wasn't going to place any higher than maybe seventh, sixth or seventh in that race. So, yeah, ninth place, 3104 was, was okay.

And you mentioned your mum in that. Do you feel there was an added pressure for you because of your mum and dad's history with running?

It's never been an added pressure for me. I feel like other people have always tried to create a pressure, like from the media and from, like when I was a kid. I remember doing a cross country one time and I can't remember what position I came, but some other girl had beaten me and her mum at the end had said, had run up to her and said, oh, well done, well done. Like you, you beat McColgan. And I remember being like, sort of like, I don't know, 12, 13, 14 years old and wondering, why did she say that? Like, I just didn't really have any concept of why someone would want to beat me. Like, she didn't win the race, but it was like she'd won the race because she had beaten me. Um, and so that sort of pressure has always been external. It's never been something that I've personally felt. And even going into this championship, I know there was a lot of media and a lot of chat around, like my mum winning the world champs 30 years earlier, me being 30 years old and being at the Olympic Games, but I've just always separated me and my mom. Like, we're two completely different people. So I just don't see. Just because my mom did it doesn't mean that I have to do it. I mean, I've just always been able to separate them. And my mum's still a huge part of me getting to that start line. Like, she's my coach. She has been my coach since I was little and she's always said that I can run faster than her and I've never really believed that probably until now. And I am starting to run faster than. I've broke her PBS for over 15, 3K, 5K. I'm a second off the 10K and I have no doubt that I'll go to the half marathon and marathon and I'll give those a good pop as well. So. It's weird. Yeah. I feel like the pressure is certainly external. It's not something that particularly bothers me or that I put on myself because I feel when I'm running, it's not just me. I feel like I want to do this for my mum, my dad, Michael, who helps me so much. Like there's a lot of people on my team and I feel like it's not just an individual sport. So when I'm on the start line, I don't feel that. Yeah, I don't know, I just. It's hard to explain. I just don't feel that sort of pressure that I think people probably would expect me to feel.

Yeah, well, that's.

That's.

It's great that that's. That's the case that you don't feel that pressure. I know you say you're now, now going to switch to the marathon. How do you. How's your training changed over the years from. I know you've brought in more. You've mentioned the cross training you've brought in, but how's your training changed from, you know, from when you were doing steeplechase to 5,000 to 10,000 and now going into the marathon and half marathon and marathon.

Yeah, it's really just. Again, the additional cross training was something that I'd never done before. I'd always seen other girls and women and everyone runs twice a day and would be running 80 to 90 miles, 100 miles a week. And so I always felt that that's what I needed to do, but for whatever reason, my body just can't. Certainly couldn't do it at the same time. When I was doing the steeple chase, it was probably just too much impact and too much mileage. Um, so, yeah, we've just adapted it and really scaled back with regards to mileage and built up gradually over the last couple of years. So I probably started at 30 miles a week and now have built up to probably 65. I'd like to just continue building that up towards 75, 80 being an average week. Cross training will always be part of my program. I think it's just beneficial. It just works for me. So it really is just that gradual, year on year, increasing and not increasing it by crazy amounts. I mean, my longest run at the moment is usually a 14 to 16 mile run. Um, and to be honest, next year, even when I'm going towards the marathon, I don't think I will go much higher than that. I think the priority for me is always on my sessions. The quality sessions that I can get in every week are really what makes me run faster. That's just what we found. I'm definitely more quality over quantity type of athlete. Um, and as long as I can supplement with cross training, I can stay injury free. For me, being consistent is really what's going to pay off in the long run. So, yeah, changes this year we've made quite a bit of changes just to the format of the week that I have and the types of sessions that I do on the track as well. We've just adjusted and it was a little bit of a risk doing that. But to be honest, I felt like I've got to the point in my career now where I may as well try something. Like I've been to worlds, I've been to Olympic Games, like, what can we do now to try and be a little bit more competitive at those championships? And yeah, it's definitely paid off this year and I feel like we'll just continue that format now as we move towards the half marathon. Just increasing mileage ever so slightly, increasing the volume of the sessions a little bit. But for me, cross training and having a recovery day in there every single week I think will be really important even as I move up in distances too, because it's really made me into the athlete I am now and just given my body the chance to. Yeah, the chance to cooperate with me finally. I finally feel that my body is stronger than it ever has been before. And it's just taken me a good 10 years to get to this point. A little bit slower than I would have liked, to be honest.

It's really interesting. I'm not long finished reading from Last to First, the Charlie Spedding book that Ali Dixon actually recommended on this podcast. So, which is really, I really, really enjoyed it. Um, but he progressed through. He didn't do the steeplechase, but he progressed through from 5k to 10k to then on to marathon. Is it something that a lot of track athletes do? It kind of gradually get longer and longer as they get older, I suppose.

Yeah. I think you sort of know yourself, even, even when you're younger, that you have more of a tendency, tendency either to speed or endurance. And if you don't have that really quick, fast turnover, say even in a 1500, but you're more of a strength based athlete, you just know that that's where your career is going to end up. Um, so I've known all along, like I don't have the, that speed necessary for an 800 or 1500. Yes, I can run four minutes for 1500, which I'm pretty happy with. And I feel like I could actually break four minutes for a 1500, but I don't have the quick pace that someone like Laura Muir would have where she could just jog around three laps and then absolutely nail the last 300. Like I don't have that pickup. Um, I would have to be just eyeballed out from the gun to the, to the end and that is it. So again, it's just that tendency shows that you are certainly more of an endurance athlete. You can keep going forever, but you just don't have the turn of pace. So naturally, I think a lot of athletes probably do that. They start off in the lower distances and then start heading up towards 10K. And then once they've sort of felt they've hit their sort of peak on the track, then that's probably when they go to the roads and start doing half marathon and marathon. And I think we have a lot of really inspirational women, I think over the years as well, that have gone up to the marathon and showed that even at their age, they've still managed to make Olympic Games. Like even Ali Dixon, Sonia Samuels. I think they must have been 37, 38, and we're still making teams. We had obviously even Paula Radcliffe, you have Jo Pavy. Over the years, like Jim, there's been a lot of very strong women, even my mum, that have shown that just because you're 30 plus doesn't mean that you're no longer a good athlete or you no longer can be competitive. Jimmy, you can actually get stronger as you mature and as you get older as a woman. So for me, that's always been a huge motivating factor as well. Just looking at those inspirational women and thinking, actually, I can do this, I can definitely over the next couple of years move to the marathon and just give it a go, give it a go and see how it goes. I mean, I might go to it and decide that I hate it. Or I'm not good enough at it and you might see me back on the track. But certainly for this next year, the championship wise, I'd like to still really target a really quick 10k. I don't think I've hit my, my potential yet over that 10,000 meters. So that's certainly a goal heading into even next year. But there will be a half marathon this winter and a marathon at some point in the near future too.

I just find it really interesting that, that, you know, as you say, many of the top marathon runners have come from running much shorter distances for a good stretch of their career. And it seems in this day and age, that seems bizarre to me in that I would expect there to be dedicated marathon runners that have been doing it all the way through and therefore have got much more experience at that distance than somebody like yourself coming into it in their 30s. But is that the case as well? And is it just some people do it right from the off or is it, you know, a general trend?

Yeah, it's usually a general trend. I suppose a lot of athletes will start it at school in the club system and up until a certain age you can only really do certain events. So for under 15, it's probably 800, maybe 1500s and then you can do 3k when you're like under 17 and then you can do 5k. Then there's a certain age limit on, I see on the distances. So I suppose the natural progression if you are a member of a running club is that you just as you get older, you're allowed to do the next discipline up. Do you mean the next distance up? I think it's, it's quite rare. I mean you do have it. People come into the sport later and do take up marathon running and go on to be elite athletes. But you'll find that majority of elites will come from a club system. They'll come from starting running when they're 12, 13, 14 years old and just build up naturally. And to be honest, again, I think there's only so many marathons you can probably do at a really, really high level in your career before perhaps the body starts to not want to compete at that same level anymore. So yeah, I think it's very rare that you would see like an elite marathoner be competitive for 10, 15 years in that one event. Jimmy, you will find that again, someone like Paula will be at our absolute best for 5, 6 years. But before that will have been doing 10ks, 5ks, 1500s. Even Germany. I think it's just the how best you sort of prolong your career, really, at the elite level, the very, very top, top level. I think it's very difficult to just be battering out marathons every single year for such a long, extended period of time. So, yeah, I think that's where I've come from, certainly. I think chatting to other people as well, like even like Ali and Sonja and certainly Paula, my mum. They've all come from club backgrounds and starting at the shorter distances and just building up naturally as we've been allowed to.

Well, let's hope you have the same success that they've had because you're certainly on an amazing trajectory. One of the things that amazes me about being a serious athlete, a professional athlete in this day and age, is social media. So you almost have to kind of spend. It strikes me that you have to spend as much of your time building a social media brand as you do training. And I remember listening to a podcast where you were being interviewed and you talked about the sort of. I think you'd had some abuse on social media because of your, you know, having a very tall physique. So talk to me a bit about that. Social media, building the brand stuff around being an athlete and whether it's a good thing or not.

Yeah, I mean, there's two sides of social media, obviously. There's the good side of it with regards to. You can connect to people from all over the world, people that you never would have the chance to connect to the before. Like, if I was growing up when I was younger and knew that I could just message Kelly Holmes or write under a picture or private messenger whenever I wanted to, or Paula even. I mean, I would have lost my mind if that was the opportunity. And now it's true. I mean, at the touch of the button, you can contact anyone you want to in the world. I mean, they might not reply to you, but you can. You still have access to those people. And I mean, the amount of young kids that message me on a daily basis is insane. And they're asking all sorts and sometimes it's quite deep stuff as well. It's with regards to maybe the way they feel when they run, or other people's perception or their body shape they're worried about, just body issues, their weight, how they. How they look. A lot of people obviously have. Yeah, just different difficulties that they're going through at a young age that, again, as a kid, I would never have even thought about. But social media has created this sort of false environment for young kids to grow up in now where they see celebrities and everyone's photoshopped and blemish free and just, I suppose, just a fake lifestyle as well. So there's a really two downs, I suppose there's a good side and a bad side to it. But I always try my best to reply to literally every single little kid that messages me, whether it's a little bit of advice, whether it's asking about training or whether it's just they want to know, what's Japan like? What's the Olympic Games like? It could be what's my favorite color like? It's just anything. I try my best to engage with them as much as I can. At the same time, you're always going to have one or two people that just ruin it. And I'm very fortunate. Like I haven't had a huge amount of people troll me or be nasty or anything like that. But every now and again, yeah, someone does come along and for me it's mainly body shape. So saying that I'm, I'm thin, I'm anorexic, I'm unhealthy, I'm a bad role model for youngsters and half of the time I ignore it and the other half, it does frustrate me because I suppose it gets me more when they claim that I'm unhealthy or a bad role model or that they know something about me that they don't. Because I know firsthand how strong, how healthy, the amount of fuel that I have to put into my body in order to allow it to do what it does. I mean, I've been competitive now from 2011 right the way through to this year, 2021. Yes, I've had injuries along the way, but I've made almost every major championship since then. And I think if you didn't have a healthy body, you wouldn't be allowed to do that. I mean, you wouldn't be on standing on the start line at that level of competition or certainly wouldn't be improving every year. So it's frustrating. I feel people just look at a picture, they're obviously not in the sport. They just come across you on social media, don't know anything about you and just make assumptions. But again, that's part and parcel of it. You have to just expect that, that everyone thinks that they should have an opinion and everyone believes that their opinion is the best and that they should just tell you that as well rather than just keep it to themselves. But yeah, there's obviously going to always going to be some strange folk on there. But for me it's a huge part of my, I suppose, income as well with regards to how we make a living. I think it's for us it's been really important. Both myself and Michael, it's allowed us now to almost invest that money back into my training so we can go abroad to altitude, we can go to better like warm weather countries when the weather's really bad in the uk I can just get more consistent training blocks and Michael can now travel with me all times. So he's literally my coach, my pacer, my physio, my chef, my photographer, is doing everything all in one to be honest. But it just makes a big difference. Like I used to travel on my own for months and months of the year completely solo and mentally I think, I mean looking back now, I realize how tough that was. It's just, it's not easy and I think being happy is a huge part of that. And having Michael with me 247 just makes me so much happier. I'm happier these years, like having my best friend, my partner with me all times. So it makes me happier, it makes me a better athlete because I am happy. And yeah, I think social media has allowed us to invest that money back into my running and I've got no doubt that's why I'm certainly running faster than I ever have. We've had been more flexible with regards to where we go for training and yeah, the more altitude training has certainly had a big factor in that too.

That's fascinating actually because there is so much talk, I mean, I'm a dad of two young girls. There's so much talk about how, you know, social media is making younger people less happy. But I think it's also really interesting to look at the other side of it and say, you know, actually it's making you happier because it's bringing you an income that you probably weren't generating 10 years ago and that's allowing you to train better as well as having a better personal training life balance. So I think that's really interesting. One of the things. So you're a precision hydration supported athlete, aren't you? How has PH helped you over the years and maybe specifically with the heat and humidity of Tokyo.

Yeah, it's actually been, it was almost like perfect timing knowing that the Olympics was going to be in Tokyo and that we were going to be in conditions that were pretty challenging. So yeah, over the last couple of years we sort of built up a hydration plan of what I would do when I'm on mainly on altitude camps as well because there's just a higher need for. You have a higher sweat loss when you're altitude. So for me, yeah, for me drinking isn't something that I find easy. I mean, honestly I could eat all day and just keep eating and eating, but I could go all day without drinking anything at all. So I really have to be a bit more regimented on it and almost force myself into a good routine of after training, during runs when it's particularly hot outside, and also just adding electrolytes to that to ensure that I'm getting the, the right, I suppose hydration in me rather than just water in the past, water just isn't enough. It's maybe okay if you're training the UK and it's not too cold and you don't have a huge sweat loss, but certainly when your altitudes and certainly where we've been over the last couple of months in Dubai as well, it was up in the 30s, 34, 35 degrees every day. And so having the right electrolytes on me was, was really important to make sure. Yeah, I just wasn't getting too dehydrated. Certainly in the past that's been a mistake I've made where I've failed to replenish what I've sweated out. And you can get by maybe for a couple of days, but certainly if you're there for a full month that will have a huge impact to your training. In Fontomo last month before Tokyo, we were using the heat chamber up here, so I was training at 30, around anywhere from sort of 35 to 37 degrees Celsius and humidity wise sort of 80 to 85%. And I was in there maybe three days a week cross training, mainly not doing a huge amount of running in there because it was so stressful. But again having precision hydration, they have different volumes of their electrolytes, so it's not just like a one size fits all. And I think that's what sort of makes them different from other brands that are on the market because usually you just have the one tablet and that's it. Whereas precision hydration will work out what your particular sweat rate is. So if you're a low sweat rate, you don't have to have a huge amount of electrolytes in the system so the volume can be a little bit lower for you. Um, so it's been really good to be able to actually individualize what I, what my body needs with regards to the type of training we're doing. So for Tokyo, sort of prep camp and the heat chamber, we really ramped that up and I was taking in the 1500 tablets, like the volume, pretty much preloading that before I went into the chamber and then having that straight after as well in 500 mils to try and again replenish what we'd lost. Um, and I think that allowed me to start coping really better, much better in the chamber. Sort of adapted a lot faster than we thought we. I would. Um, and certainly going into Tokyo, as I said in the race, I didn't actually notice the heat and humidity until the very end. I think mentally anyway, I didn't have the perception of. It was nowhere near as bad, I think, as what other people were saying it was. Um, but obviously physiologically in the race, the longer you run the 10k it gets you at some point. So it wasn't really till I actually finished that I really had that sensation of, oh my God. Like it was overwhelmingly hot and humid at the very end. Um, but yeah, precision hydration have been a really good help with regards to getting me to Tokyo in one piece and fully hydrated, which made a big difference.

Brilliant. And one final question, because I'm very conscious of your, your time this afternoon, but I know you or you were, if not still a big reader of running books and different, different books. I always ask people to recommend any books that you found particularly helpful or any books that you find yourself recommending to, you know, the athletes that you coach. Are there any particular books that stand out for you that, that you've, you know, you found really valuable?

And you know, it's not actually a running book, but it is called Legacy and it was about the all that All Blacks rugby team by James Kerr.

Great book.

Yes. Yeah. And I really, really enjoyed that. I know it's not running related, but I just felt like there was a lot of things in there that were valuable with regards to work ethic, team spirit, environment that you put yourself in. And yeah, I just really enjoyed it. I really felt like it was. It's definitely something that I like looking back on every now and again and certain quotes in there and things like that I really just enjoyed. So, yeah, that's definitely one that I know it's not running related, so I apologize, but it's still sports related. So there we go.

It's an excellent book that I think somebody else has recommended in the past. I certainly read it quite a while ago. It's all about leadership, isn't it?

It's.

And I particularly love the bit around Sweeping the sheds. I think that is just, you know, fantastic. And any other books that you, that you. That you really have rated over the years.

Oh, good question. I've now just come into an absolute mind blank. I'm trying to think what I've wrote. Honestly. I've read so many different running ones I actually just took with me. I got a. Can't remember the name of it, what I think about when I'm running. And I was meant to take that to Japan.

Oh, yes. I can't remember the author's name and I have read that as well, but it's really interesting. Have you read it yet?

No. So I took it to Japan and then I was just. I just honestly forgot it was even in my bag. And I don't know what I did through my time when I was out there, but I didn't even read a single page of it. So. So it's somewhere. It's somewhere in this apartment and I need to fork it out and start reading that because I have heard that it's. Yeah, that's another good book to read. But, yeah, honestly, I can't. I've had an absolute mind blank. I can't even tell you what I've read recently.

Well, I'm fairly sure you will enjoy what I think about when I. When I'm running and what. I can't remember exactly what it's called, but it's something along those lines. But I actually listened to that book while running and it's quite a. It's a book that rambles a bit, but it's. But it's quite lovely to listen to while you're running. It kind of. It's kind of weird having somebody else's mind ramblings while you're running when you're normally having your own mind ramblings. But no, I'm sure you'll. I'm sure you'll enjoy that. I'm fantastic. Alicia, it's been absolutely brilliant chatting to you. Amazing to see you do as well as you've done in the three Olympics that you. You've been at so far. And I can't wait to see you running in the marathon in Paris because hopefully that will be. It will just continue to get better and better. But, yeah, thank you so much for taking time out to chat to me and, yeah, I wish you every success in the future.

No problem. Thank you very much for having me.

You'll find out more about Eilish at Instagram and her name on Instagram is Eilish McColgan. As you might expect. But that's Eilish spelled E I L I S H and I'll put the link on the show notes. Of course I found that to be just a really interesting conversation. I find it amazing how somebody just progresses through the different disciplines and can be, you know, turn their hand to being, you know, a top, top athlete. Having never really raced that sort of distance before and particularly, you know, looking forward that the confidence that gives her that she can represent Team GB at a fourth Olympic Games in Paris running a marathon, having never actually run a marathon yet. I mean I think that's just incredible. But like I said in the interview, it's actually something that seems to be a trend. You know, obviously we saw it with her mum and also with Charlie Spedding as well. So just really interesting on that piece. I thought it was also really lovely to hear that she, she didn't find that growing up in a, in a family of accomplished runners that there was actually any pressure. In fact, you know, the fact that she didn't even really know her mum and dad were as good a runners as they actually actually were, I think was, was pretty amazing. And I think that probably is a testament to, to, to the parenting of Liz and Peter not to put that pressure on and actually that Eilish did it because she really enjoyed it. And then finally I just, I really enjoyed understanding more about what the Tokyo experience was like compared to what clearly would have been an amazing home games in, in London for Eilish given it was right at the start of her career. And also the comparison with Rio as well. I just think that it was yeah really interesting to, to understand more what it would have been like to qualify and race at any one of those. So anyway, I hope you found that really interesting. Alish, as I mentioned in the, in the interview, is precision hydration athlete. So again if you want to go to Precision Hydration and get their help then you go to their website again. Link will be in the show notes Precision hydration But there's also Tribathlon 15 discount code off your first purchase. So anyway for now hopefully we'll have it. We'll. We will line up a different co host for next time. Not quite sure who it will be yet but anyway in the meantime for all of you listeners, please remember if you like it, to review it and share it and of course keep on training. Don't forget to download the Tribathlon app for more amazing podcasts but also to help you train, compete and to build your tribe.