Triumph in Adversity: Spinal Injury to Para Athletic Success with Claire Danson

Foreign.

I'm Charlie Redding.

And I'm Claire Fudge.

Welcome to the business of endurance.

I think it's like anything in life, if you can't see it, you can't be it. And I think there can very much be a misconception that somebody in a wheelchair, somebody with whatever disability, an amputee or whatever, perhaps can't do things with spinal injuries. Particularly in the early days, structure is really important. There's things that a lot of people don't necessarily, wouldn't necessarily associate with a spinal injury unless you knew somebody with one.

In this episode we dive into the extraordinary tale of Claire Danson, whose journey epitomizes resilience and ambition. The summer of 2019 marked a pivotal moment for Claire, transitioning from European triathlete champion to navigating life with paralysis following a devastating accident. Yet Claire's narrative is one of profound determination and hope. Within months of her accident, she embraced her new path, setting her sights on the Paralympics as a member of the British cycling team. Her story, a testament to the human spirit's capacity to adapt and thrive, has earned her many accolades so far. Despite the severe challenges, Claire's positive outlook and commitment to her sport have not only redefined her identity, also set a new benchmark for courage and perseverance. Join us as we explore Claire Danson's remarkable journey from the brink of a life altering incident to her debut on the international hand cycling stage. It's a narrative of overcoming, a celebration of the relentless pursuit of dreams against all odds and a powerful message about the strength found in adversity. I know you're going to love this inspiring story of Claire Danson. Charlie Redding from the Trusted team here. One of the sayings I use quite a bit, which I was reminded of in this interview, was that losers just have goals, winners have systems. So we don't rise to the level of our goals, but we fall to the level of our systems. And I think you're going to get that understanding from this interview with Claire Danson. So if you listen right the way to the end, I've got a way of showing you how you can implement this in your life. So, Claire, if you could go back and give yourself some advice just in those days immediately after the accident, what would that advice be?

I think the advice would be as simple as, you can do this. And as much as anything for the days where that doubt was in my mind and I needed that, I think having that voice of you can do this, you will get through it is just that extra boost I think sometimes on those difficult days you need. So I think that one, and I think as well, I mean, I think I probably have given myself quite a bit of advice, but I think be kind on yourself. It's going to be a long journey. It is not a case of, okay, now you know what's wrong with you. Do this and this and it will get. You'll get yourself better. So, so be kind. When you're achieving things that in a past life wouldn't have felt like achievements, don't berate yourself for them. Accept that they are massive. Celebrate them and just use that as a platform to move forward each time. No, that typical. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Saying actually applies really well to recovery from a spinal injury. Yeah, I think that would be probably some good advice.

Sounds like fantastic advice to me for anyone listening to this. So, Claire, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Really looking forward to hearing more about your story. And, you know, it is an inspirational story. So I want to start by asking, you know, was your sporting life like before the day that obviously changed your life forever? I know you were a very successful triathlete, but tell us about perhaps your proudest moment as a triathlete before your accident.

So my proudest moment by far would have been winning Europeans in 2019. I won my age group. And I think for me, what I was even prouder of was that I came second overall in that race. So that's definitely going to be number one achievement up there. And then I think to kind of cement that, I think the next week I went to Staffordshire 70.3 and I won age group there in the half Ironman distance race. So those would have been the two things that jump out as two things I'm really proud of.

Where was that European championship?

So it was in Holland.

And what was it about that day that really stands out going over the line?

If I'm honest, it was the winning that made it for me. The race itself probably wasn't my finest race I've ever done. Proudest race in terms of achievement would have been Estonia, which was the year before, where I came third. I felt like that's probably, in terms of what I could have achieved is probably the best I've ever done in a race. But I think the crossing the finish line, being the first one over the line, it's sort of dawning on me that I'd won. The people at end going, you've won. I was just, there's not feeling like it really amazing.

And so let's go to that day where you had your accident. What do you remember from the accident and what you know, describe for those people that don't know anything about you, tell us what happened on that day.

So it was just a total. It was a very normal day for me. I got up as I normally would, I think I went for a swim, came home, had some breakfast, said to my mum, I'm off out on my bike, I'll be out in an hour or so. Took a route that I have ridden hundreds of times because the route out of my house go the same way every time, but it wasn't like every other day. And actually on that day, as I came around a corner, a tractor came around the corner at the same time that I came round and we collided and obviously collision with the tractor, the tractor came off a bit better than I did. So in terms of what I remember, my memory is very limited. I don't really remember very much at all of that day generally, really. But I do remember when I was lying on the floor, I remember holding someone's hand and I remember sitting, saying the name Stuart a lot. So the first person on the scene, other than the tractor driver, was a retired and actually also happened to be somebody that I knew. I was best friends with his daughter growing up, so someone I knew very well. And he obviously checked and made sure I was stable and then sat with me. And whenever he went away, wasn't holding my hand, I would repeat his name. And that's something that I do remember remember from the accident and something that I'm very grateful for the fact he was there. I do always say to people, you know, my accident was the luckiest, unlucky thing that ever happened to me because there was so much around it that could have gone differently and played out differently and I might not be here today. And I think, you know, he is the first person that played a part in saving my life.

Why do you think it was so important that that was. I mean, obviously his medical experience I could understand being very important. Why was it so important that was somebody you knew?

Do you think so? I mean, I think I believe that having the right people around you and feeling like you're safe is really important. And as I say, I can't really remember how I felt in that moment, but I can only imagine that having him there made me feel like everything was under control, like someone was looking after me. He did actually also get in contact with the ambulance that was coming and canceled the Land ambulance said we need an air ambulance. And that again, was vital in terms of getting me to hospital quickly. I don't. I not convinced the outcome would have been the same in terms of time and also in terms of the medical care that you can be given. So for anyone that doesn't know, air ambulance will carry, well, they have doctor with them to start off with, and they also carry a lot more medications, they carry blood, so they transfused me on the way there. So in terms of the treatment that they can give, it's actually a lot more than an ambulance will be able to do.

Wow. So. So he fundamentally, that person being there saved your life, because if you'd waited for the ambulance, all of that would have taken a whole lot longer. And describe for me what sort of your thought process was over the course of the next few days, because it's almost impossible to imagine.

Yeah.

So again, limited memories from those first few days. So I was in intensive care and sort of in and out of consciousness. There are obviously like there will be with anything like this some very vivid memories. And I do remember when I think I first woke up, I suspect I woke up in and out before that. And actually I've been told that I was conscious the whole time. So the whole time I was laid on the floor, the whole whole time I on my way to hospital, I was conscious, but I don't remember that. So my first conscious memory is waking up. And it's very confusing when you're lying there and you wake up, you think what's happening? And you're rigged up to lots of machines. But I remember waking up and I remember hearing my sister's voice and she just very calmly said, you've been in an accident, you're going to be okay, you're being looked after. We're here. We are in Southampton Hospital and I think, again, having that calmness of somebody just being there and understanding that you're being looked after, you very much have no control at this point of what's happening. So I think the calmness is very helpful. And then the other thing I remember is. So I'd been put on a ventilator, help to help with my breathing. A ventilator, because both my lungs are collapsed and when you're on a ventilator, you can't talk. So they give you, like a board with letters on to spell out words. My arms weren't functioning, my fingers weren't really functioning. So in order to communicate, my family would actually point along the letters and I'd Squeeze their finger when they got to the right one. Obviously a slightly painstaking process for them. They were very patient. They got quite good at guessing what I was trying to say. But the first word that I spelled out was sorry. And actually, I do remember as soon as I woke up, an acute feeling of, I understand this is serious, and I understand what it must be putting my family through. So that was the first word that I spelt out. And then the second word was para athlete. So from very early on, again, I also understood that I was paralyzed. I don't really remember where that came from. I think my sister told me. But from very early on I understood that. But I also have watched enough of things like the Paralympics things to understand that doesn't mean you can't do sport. And I think it was my way of communicating to my family that it was going to be okay. It wasn't going to change anything. I understood it was serious, but I was still going to do sport. And that was the goal. So I think that was in terms of positivity, those are all my initial thoughts. You're obviously dealing with quite a lot that's going on. You're dealing with a lot of pain. You're dealing with it being very confusing. I was on a lot of medications, so they taught kind of what they call it. I think they call it like intensive care, like dreams or nightmares or things. And I think you. You definitely see things that aren't there and imagine things happening that aren't there. So there were things like that that obviously happened. But, yeah, it was a lot of just being looked after in those first couple of weeks, to be honest. I do also remember. So they had to do surgery on my spine and they had to do surgery on my arms, and they had to do them separately because they were going to be long surgeries. And I remember them telling me they were going to keep me asleep between them. And I remember the sense of relief that I was going to be asleep for two days and I didn't have to think and I didn't have to feel any pain. And I just. I do remember that quite vividly as well, which kind of tells me as. As much as it's like a murky memory now, it tells me that I was obviously. It was obviously a difficult time.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it must be an incredibly difficult time. And that stark reminder of how difficult it was. Even if you don't remember why, you know, how it was so difficult just talking about the fact that you wanted to be a para athlete. As soon as you knew that you were paralyzed, how important do you think it was that you'd seen so much of the sort of like the Paralympics and, you know, and seeing that there was life in sport beyond an accident like this, how important do you think that was in helping you have the right mindset?

I think it's vital because I think it's like anything in life. If you can't see it, you can't be it. And I think there can very much be a misconception that somebody in a wheelchair, somebody with whatever disability, an amputee or whatever, perhaps can't do things. And particularly something like sport, you kind of feel like you need to be physically at your peak. And potentially the attitude or the feeling is that, you know, if you can't walk, how can you be physically at a peak? Some of the fittest people I know now, para athletes, but yeah, I definitely think that having seen it, knowing that there were possibilities there, not necessarily knowing exactly what there were, my. My view of parasport was still limited as to the options, but knowing it was a possibility and knowing that I was fortunate enough that I did have the use of my arms was really important.

And to come back to the other thing that you said, which is that you felt the. So the first thing you said was, sorry, why did you clearly feel guilt at that moment? And what have you. What did you do to override that guilt?

It's a funny one, isn't it? Because I did feel guilt even though I'd done nothing wrong. You know, I hadn't done anything in my riding that meant that this should have happened to me. But it's just that knowing that because you're lying there in hospital, whoever you know, regardless of whether you did something wrong, it is knowing that you're lying there in hospital and they're worried about you and you feel bad for that. And I think that's what it was in terms of overriding that guilt. I guess it was probably the fact that I was alive helped me to over. To come over that because I knew that, you know, if I wasn't, it would be much, much worse for them. And then I guess every time I achieved something, it was almost like I was giving them something back. It was giving them some hope. Because having an injury like mine really doesn't just affect me or the person that's happening to. It has such a widespread impact on everybody around you. And the people that love you and care about you don't care that you're in a wheelchair, that you know they couldn't care less, but they do care about how that affects your life. And so initially, when I can't feed myself, when I can't get in and out of bed, when I've not learned how to control bladder and bowel, all of those things can be quite distressing as a loved one to watch you go through. So I think going through and reaching all those goals and all those milestones then. Then helps you to feel better, because you know that actually they're seeing that despite the fact your life has changed, you're still happy, you're still living it really well and you're coping really well, and that's all that they can really ask for. So, yeah, I think that definitely helps. I also think you learn to be much more accepting of help without feeling guilty for that help. My sister once said to me, because I do find it hard, and I'm getting better, but you find it hard to ask for help. And she once said to me, if you ask people for help, you are actually doing a massive favor for them, because to be asked for help is a joy. It's a delight that somebody else thinks you can help them. And she said, if somebody put it on the other foot and asked you to help them, what would you do? And I said, I'd be. I'd jump at the chance. I'd love to help them. Say to me, that's exactly how people will feel if you ask them to help you. And I think that was quite helpful as well.

Yeah, that's really powerful, isn't it?

You obviously had this amazing and, you know, massive goal that when you woke up on itu, that you were going to be a para athlete, that transition from when you leave hospital and going home and then having to, you know, live your life in a slightly different way. Did you have, like, little micro goals that you set yourself? Because every day is such a challenge in that phase, isn't it?

Yeah, massively. And actually, you're right about micro goals. And that was a case sort of throughout my rehab and then going back home as well. So I spent three weeks in intensive care and then three weeks in Southampton Hospital, and then I went to Salisbury Spinal unit. And you learn an awful lot there about what it's actually like to live with a spinal injury. So I think whilst I was in Southampton and it was very hospital like, you kind of still are under the illusion that, you know, you get better, because that's what hospitals do, even though you know you're not going to. And then you get to the spine, family unit and everything sort of slowly dawns on you a little bit about how far you have to go. So one of my first kind of little goals, if you like, was when I was in rehab and my right arm was crushed in the injury. So really I had no use of it at all. So one of my first goals was literally just trying to be able to kind of use my right arm to feed myself. And it turned out that chocolate cake was the way to do that. So somebody bought in chocolate cake was like, you can only eat it if you use a spoon and use your right hand. I did. And actually it's celebrating that goal. You know, you've come from a place where winning races is an achievement and you go to a place where feeding yourself is an achievement. And truthfully, the excitement I got from that was probably outweighed the excitement for winning a race because actually that was important. And so there was lots of those throughout hospital. And then on coming home, it's a funny one. Coming home is really hard. You are excited because you don't have to be in hospital anymore, but actually suddenly all the support is taken away and you're suddenly reliant on family members rather than nursing staff. And you would think you'd rather have family members to help you, but actually, again, there's that sense of guilt because family members you don't feel should look after you. But when you're in hospital, that's kind of a nurse's job. So you almost feel like you kind of start again with that process and you've got, as you say, those little goals. A lot of mine, when I got home, having done all the learning live stuff a lot was then, well, how am I going to actually start training or doing exercise to then get back into sport that way?

How quickly did you have that in your. Was it always at the back of your mind in terms of. I know that was a big goal there, but was that sat at the back of your mind about kind of when and how did you start to sort of research that?

Yeah, absolutely. It was always there and I guess so in hospital as well as doing rehab and kind of build a lot of it was trying to build up my arms so that I could do things. We had. We were very lucky. There's a hydrotherapy pool at Salisbury and you could use it once a week for physio. And some people who have injuries where maybe they've got a bit of movement in their legs or maybe need to rehab their arms in different way, more spinal related Than mine was obviously very mechanical, use their physio for that. And I did it first and then I said really all I want. My goal for physio is to be able to learn, to be able to swim again. So all my physio sessions became about that. And again the right arm was a problem because I couldn't lift it out the water. So to begin with I swam with a snorkel and sort of did doggy paddle with my right arm under the water and eventually got it a bit higher. But my physio sessions each week became get Claire in the water, let her swim as much as she can in the time and then she can get out again. Which was great because actually it meant I didn't need anyone with me. So my, I was able to spend longer in the swimming pool because I didn't need a physio. So. So I guess it was always in the back of my mind. One of my occupational therapy goals was to get into a wetsuit. We went on a hand cycle testing day. So I got to go and have a go in some hand cycles. So it was definitely always in the back of my mind. And you start to learn from other people and speak to other people who are in wheelchairs and kind of start to learn the process, I guess of what's available, what you need to do, all that kind of thing.

Amazing. And what's incredible is the fact that you didn't have use of that arm at all and yet you've gone on. You know, that's obviously one of the, one of the two arms that gets you through all of these incredible events that you do now.

Hi, Claire Fudge here, clinical dietitian and high performance nutritionist. It's really interesting to hear Claire talking about her routine and her planning that she learned from triathlon and how she had put that into practice around her recovery and getting through recovery, but also when she got home when lockdown happened. And this is really the same as we think in terms of nutrition. And I've got a great download that you can download. Click the link below to a meal planner. So helping you to get organized and get some routine around your nutrition.

Thinking.

About that sort of the sport that you've done since your accident. Well, I mean, you know, you've done, you've had unfinished business so you went and did an ironman, you've done the London to Paris, you've G.B. paracyclist. Absolutely incredible. What do you think your proudest moment is of your sporting career so far post accident?

Oh, wow. That's a really hard question because everything I've done has been huge to me. They've all had, they've all had some kind of meaning behind them, even from. So I'm now going to basically name all the things I'm proud of, which is going to make me sound like a show off. But the first thing I did was in December after my accident. So my accident was at the end of August. So three months after my accident, I did a 10K around Thorny Lake. I mean, it took me like two and a half hours and I was pushed some of the way, but that was amazing and exciting and it was like my first thing back. And then I guess my first triathlon back was really big. And that I did again actually at Dorney Lake and we went on from there to do the 255. So that was like. I've done quite a few big things over the time. So 2, 5, 5 is the biggest triathlon single day event I think in the world. So it's 5k swim, a 200k bike and a 50k run and I didn't finish. I did 120k on the bike and I did 40k on the run. But what was really special about that was all my friends came, they all did it as a relay and the end was just magical, like I couldn't have asked for anything more. And then, as you say, London to Paris was massive. So. So there was five hand bikes amongst a group of about 40 bikes and we had cycled from London to Paris over three days, over 100 miles a day. But what made that so special was my sister did it with me, having given birth 10 weeks before. A little bit of a weird gene thing going on. But also the surgeon who fixed my arms came along as well. So it was just so special. And that achievement was. It was one of those things where I didn't know if I could do it. And that just makes achieving it even more special. And then we come onto this past year, just gone. And my first race for Great Britain in the first World Cup I did was again just like another level of that. Thinking of how on earth have I somehow managed to get here? Thinking about where I was three years ago and when I got my selection for the World Championships in Scotland over the summer. I'm not that emotional a person, but I did shed a few tears just because. Just couldn't quite believe everything that's happened almost in the last few years. And getting back to that place is just. It just feels amazing. And I Feel very lucky.

It sounds to me that every sporting achievement that you've achieved post accident has, like almost knocked everything before the accident. Insignificance. Would you say that's true?

Never really thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right, it does. Without a shadow of a doubt. I have fond memories of races that I've done before, but nothing like the things I've done since. And every time I do something, I think, how am I ever going to top that? And then I do something else and it's still as amazing as ever. And I don't know if it's maybe that I have a fresh perspective. Everything that I tend to do now is surrounded by joy. And I think it's because I have such an amazing group of people around me that I'm very rarely doing things on my own. Ironman Turkey, for example, there was a group of us out there. They were all at the finish line. It was such a celebration. Maybe it's because it's such a team effort these days that maybe that's what makes it more special.

I didn't know until I started doing the research that you mentioned your sister a few times. She in fact, captained Team GB in the hockey and won gold in Rio with Christa Cullen, who we've also had on the podcast. So I wonder, there's clearly a very determined family of sports people here. Have you ever thought what family values were instilled in you at a young age that could have led to both of you being such phenomenal sports people?

It's a very good question. I think. I'm just thinking family. And I think if you had my dad and have my mom, I think my dad would be like, I have no idea where they came from. It's. They're ridiculous, aren't they? And I think my mum would be very much like, well, they can do anything they want to do, but I think family values wise, we were very fortunate. As children, my parents gave us every opportunity to do whatever we wanted and then it was our decision what we continued. So we were very fortunate. We did music, we did sport, we had opportunities with drama. We none of us were that great at art, but I'm pretty sure we probably had a go. But all those things we were given the opportunity to do, and I guess we were encouraged to do it without any thought of, oh, maybe you can't do it, or anything like that. So I think we're very lucky with that. And I guess the whole, you know, my parents did encourage us to do our best at things. And so that probably just naturally came through. I. I think from my perspective, obviously, not so much necessarily my sister, but from my perspective, I also had her as a role model to look up to and she is a very determined character and she certainly isn't going to let setbacks get in her way. So I guess I was fortunate enough to have her to look up to and to see what she had done. And then I guess it's a bit like we said earlier, if you can't see it, you can't be it. So seeing her achieve things, obviously, then put it in my head, well, what if I worked as hard as she did, maybe I could do that as well.

And what role do you think being a triathlete has had in your recovery process?

I think it's been massive. It enabled me to apply what I knew about training to my own rehab. So when I was in hospital, there was, and I don't blame people for this at all because you're dealing with so much emotionally, but there was. There seemed to be almost two groups of people. The group of people that were really motivated, did their rehab, were very structured, never missed anything, and then maybe the group of people who, because it was so difficult and as I say, I have no, you know, I can completely understand it, perhaps didn't really apply themselves to their rehab. Maybe they'd never done any kind of routine exercise, if you like, and so it was much harder for them. Whereas for me, I could treat rehab like training. You know, at 12 o' clock you've got physio, at 1 o', clock you've got occupational therapy. At 3 o', clock the gym is open so you can go back and do your own thing. The gym's open again at seven, so you can go back in. So all those time spaces where there are options to do things, I was very much of the nature of, well, why wouldn't you do it? It's like training, you don't miss it. So I think physically it helped me a lot. I think any of us in sporting careers will come across setbacks, whether you're amateur, elite, whatever point of your sporting life you're in. Everyone knows what it's like to be injured. Everyone knows what it's like to not do as well as they'd like to in a race, to have a bad session. And knowing that you can come back from those things again helps with that psychology of things. So, you know, waking up in the morning and having a horrible day, at the start of my day, I knew that you just carry on like you would if you had a bad session. You'd do the next one anyway. You just carry on and it gets better. And obviously it's not quite so simple as that. But having that knowledge as a kind of tool when you're having a bad day, knowing it's not going to stay that way, is actually quite helpful.

I've just got this vision in my head of you, like, having all of these different. Like, the physio is all. It's all programmed into training peaks and you're just like. Like some of the athletes we've had. I remember Leon Chevalier saying, my job is just to turn training peaks green. It's their job to fill what that goes into that. And I can just. I can almost imagine that was what it was like. I'm being told to do three things today, therefore I just do those three things. Why pay for the experts?

I didn't. But what they did used to do is they give you a timetable each week about, like, when your slots were, and I'd be really excited to find out when I was going to be doing things. And then you did obviously have, like, you're in hospital, you've got loads of free time as well. But as I say, they had open times when the gym was open, and I remember me and one of my roommates, Jenny, would be literally queuing up at the door for the gym to open. So, yeah, it was a little bit like that, but sadly I didn't put it in training booths. I do still have the timetables, though.

Did you find having that routine and structure, were you able to then put that in place when you got home? Because, again, coming home is just so different. Did that sort of help with kind of keeping. Keeping your kind of day in some sort of structure?

Yeah, it does. And actually with spinal injuries, particularly in the early days, structure is really important. There's things that a lot of people don't necessarily. Wouldn't necessarily associate with a spine injury unless you knew somebody with one. So obvious things of spinal injury are not being able to walk, but things like bladder and bowel. So most people have some kind of bowel routine and you get into that and that becomes important that, you know, you do that the same each day, so you know that routine is important, but then it's the rest of your day. So, you know, there's just that elements of being able to fill your day with things, because otherwise why'd you get up in the morning? And I think that's the same for everyone. Lack of routine, I believe, is actually a real struggle. I'm not someone who, if there's nothing going on in the day, I'll get up. When I've not got a busy day, I'm like, oh, what do I do now? So I think giving yourself that sense of routine, that sense of purpose is important. And I actually came out of hospital just before the first lockdown to just before COVID So actually I think at that point having routine became even more important because for everyone at that point, I think there would have been elements of it being quite easy to have just thought, well, watch the TV all.

Day when we're talking to the different athletes we've interviewed who often talked about, you know, structure and routine. So, yeah, you can see how important that is in terms of your recovery and, you know, sort of getting to where you are now.

And I think that's also something that worked best for people in Covid, because it was those people that still got up in the morning and exercise and still put on a shirt to go to work, even if they were in their bedroom and they maybe still had their pajama bottoms on, you know, all of those sorts of things. But actually if that discipline helped everybody, didn't it? And it's interesting that that that helped you. You've achieved so many incredible things since your accident. What are your future aspirations? You know, is there a Paralympics in there somewhere? What are the goals for the future?

Absolutely. I think a Paralympics is the ultimate goal. It's very much, obviously with 2024 next year. It's very much at the forefront of everybody who's on program, of their thoughts. It's a difficult process in terms of selection and it's definitely there for Paris, but probably more likely for la, which is four years later, so the next one. So, yeah, absolutely, that would be the absolute dream. And then there's lots of other things I'd like to do as well for, like probably the kind of more personal goals, the sorts things where I'm going to be out with my friends and doing it that way. So Turkey was a half ironman, really wants to do a full ironman at some point. And again, that would definitely be one where I would persuade as many people as possible to come and do it with me because I've learned that, you know, fun when you do it by yourself.

You've got two people here that are probably.

How many things have we signed up to recently, Charlie?

I don't.

Don't list them. Have you got a particular iron man in mind?

One that's really flat. I don't mind.

That rules out. So that's good.

Flat is definitely my friend these days. I used to love climbing on my bike. Now I don't hand bikes aren't designed to climb, but. But yeah, no, I have no. I did think Florida would be good. That looks very flat and nice place to go. Warm. Yeah.

Yeah. That is a very flat one, isn't it? I've cycled in Florida before and it is. Yeah, it's a very flat race.

We always.

So we have a tradition on this podcast where the previous guests s guest asks the next guest a question without knowing who that person will be. So I think, Claire, you've got Indy Lees.

I used to train with Indy.

Oh, fantastic.

So Indy asks, when you're faced with a situation that feels like a roadblock, what's your technique for getting past it?

I think I'm somebody that thinks a lot about it, and I would be very likely to think and think, to try and think what are my options? And I think that thought process then helps me to work my way through it. I'm not explaining this very well, so I'll think through it, probably come to no decisions whatsoever, get to the point where it's time to go to bed and think, oh, I still don't know. But I'm really confident when I've got something that's hard like that, that if I go to bed, I'll know what to do in the morning. And generally I then wake up and I'm fresh and I know exactly how to tackle the problem. So for me, there's probably an element of thinking about it coming to the acceptance that I don't know what to do about it. Going to sleep, knowing that I'll wake up and I'll know what to do. And I suspect it's really that the thinking has been what's helped me. And then for whatever reason in the morning, it's just clear. And I think that's the advice I'd give to someone, never try and make a decision before you go to bed. Except that, okay, I can't do anything about it now I'm see how I feel in the morning. And I can almost guarantee you'll feel different in the morning. You'll know exactly what to do.

It's the power of sleep, but it's the power of conscious brain as well, isn't it? So I quite often say at the start of my workshops, look, I might not cover today, whatever it is, that's the biggest issue in your business, in your or in your life. But just by thinking about that problem at the start of today and giving your head, you know, the space, stepping out of work and thinking about other stuff, by the end of today, there's a very good chance you've answered that question yourself because your subconscious brain has been doing the work in the background. And I think that's a brilliant example of that applies.

Totally agree. I work as a private tutor as well, and I always say to them, if you come across a question that you can't answer, don't steer over it, leave it halfway through the paper, it will come to you and you can go back to it and you won't even be thinking about it. Just suddenly you'll know. So, yeah, I totally agree.

Brilliant. Brilliant. And the last tradition that we have on this podcast is we always ask for book recommendation. So books that you found really helped you, books you find that you've recommended to others. Are there any particular books that stand out that you find yourself recommending? If not books, then other resources like podcasts and documentaries and things like that?

No, I'm just thinking there. When I was in hospital, I. So I guess it. There's all sorts of different things that people read, different reasons. In terms of something that I found, I love a autobiography. They I could read autobiography after autobiography. I find them fascinating. When I was in hospital, I read Claire Lomas's autobiography, who Claire also suffered a spinal cord injury and she's done a massive amount of things since. And for me at that time, it was very helpful to read somebody's thoughts, sort of how they felt during their time in hospital. So understanding that what I was feeling was totally normal and then also seeing how things could get better and what you could do. And I also think obviously that helped me as someone who was going through it, but I think it gives a good insight to other people about what a spinal injury is like. But also in terms of now, I don't know if I can recommend recommence because I haven't watched it. However, it only came out three days ago, but I think it's sky have done documentary with. I can't remember what it's called, but it is with the man who played Harry Potter's stunt double. I think it's called the Boy who Lived sustained a spinal injury doing one of the stunts. And I have heard, as I haven't had a chance to watch yet, but I've heard it's incredible. And again, for those people that don't want to read A book, apparently it's very good insight to what sustaining a spinal injury is like and I think it's like anything in life, anything where someone is portraying it that well to educate other people on something that they don't know. What a great thing to such easy access for people.

Brilliant. That's fantastic. I've seen that advertised, but I haven't actually watched it. So I will be. That'll be my Turbo Trainer watch, instead of dialing into a zoom thing instead. Well, Claire, it's been an absolute fascinating interview. Thank you so much for joining us. I think there's some brilliant takeaways that I think any, anyone in business or in life can implement. So thank you so much and we will definitely be watching with keen interest as to your future progression.

Thank you for having me. It's been great. Thank you.

Right at the start this episode, I shared with you a saying that is, losers just have goals, but winners have systems. You know, we don't rise to the level of our goals, we fall to the level of our systems. And you'll have heard that in Claire's interview. If you want to know how you can create goals but make sure you achieve those amazing goals, we actually have at the Trusted Team, a free live online workshop. It's a three hour workshop, but it's free of charge. It's called the Limitless Life Workshop and I'll show you how I set my goals and how I ensure I achieve those goals. So visit the Trusted Team website, which is thetrusted team, or look at the link for in the show notes and you can come along to our up and coming Limitless Life Workshop to understand how you can set better goals, but also make sure you have the same system in place to achieve them. So what did you make of the interview with Claire?

So it's fantastic. I think that really comes across is her mindset and structure of being a triathlete or being an athlete and actually how she then could utilise all of those skills that she'd learned for such a long time into actually one, setting a goal, like a really big goal, and. But two, actually having that structure and routine, so applying it to kind of, you know, every tiny little step to get better and then obviously to where she is today.

Yeah, I agree. I think it was like. And not just the importance of the sport in terms of the practicalities of, like you say, setting goals and the discipline of executing essentially a training plan, but also immediately to have that motivation. Motivation to, you know, to recover. Well, because she wanted to Be a power athlete. I think that is inspiring in it and it also shows the power of sport, isn't it? And the importance of having sport or another thing in your life. Because that's what compelled her to move forward, wasn't it?

What did you think? Because you're a big kind of goal setter and you talk often about setting goals, what do you think about the little micro goals that she was talking about? Because what I often see is that they've got these big goals but they forget about the stepping stones to get there and then that goal isn't kind of realized, is it? What are your thoughts on the micro goal setting?

I think she's absolutely got the right approach. I think ultimately the idea is to have the big, scary, audacious goal that only works if you then break it down and go, well, okay, if that's a three year goal, what have I got to do this year and what I've got to do this quarter and what have I got to do this month and what I've got to do this week? And that's where you're breaking it down into those micro goals, aren't you? It's like, you know, it's like eating an elephant and you just do it one by bite at a time and you'll get there. So absolutely it's the right way to do it. And you can see it working incredibly well for her.

I just imagining her micro goals are micro goals, like every day. You know, about eating that chocolate cake. I mean, there was a strong reason why she was going to do that. But you know, if you think about how people struggle to set, even think about, well, what is a micro goal like she was setting really micro goals, but they were huge goals for her, weren't they?

That's exactly it. It's about boiling down to today, isn't it? And go, right, okay, if that's the goal for three years, what have I got to do today? That is one step closer towards that. Because that means that, you know, you can create incredible days that lead on to brilliant weeks, which lead on to amazing years and awesome decades. So, you know, it's absolutely brilliant. But it's.

Yeah.

I think there was so much good advice in that episode. I think, I think that clearly, I think the piece around what she said about her sister being a role model as well has also probably been a factor. You know, being her sister being such a sporting success as well. I think having that role model, whether it's in the family or in the tribe of people, you Train with or whatever is also a really important factor, isn't it?

And also she talked a lot more about kind of that team around her. And I think, you know, again, we often forget, don't we, that whether you look in business, whether you look in your personal life or sporting life, actually having all of those different people to help you do different things or with different things. So, yeah, she didn't talk about it in depth, did she? About what everybody kind of, you know, gives her or how they support her, but the fact she's actually really enjoying that part of, you know, racing. When she was talking about doing the 70.3 race, that actually, you know, the best bit about it was all the people coming, you know, and supporting her and part of her team.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing is that stood out for me was. And I asked her the question, but I asked her the question because it was so apparent was how much more meaningful those sporting achievements post accident were than pre accident. I mean, she was on the road to becoming. Actually what she didn't say was she was about to become. Literally the day of her accident, she was going to fly out to try and qualify to get her pro license in triathlon. So she was, you know, moving, making great strides in triathlon before the accident. And yet you could tell that every sporting achievement since that day, since that accident was way more impactful than beforehand. So I thought, I just thought that was really interesting how much more it means to her now and how much more she gets out of it. And it would be amazing if we can see her in the Paralympics next year.

Absolutely.

So another amazing episode, inspirational story of Clare Danson and yeah, good luck with your training and for everyone else, keep on training. If you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of endurance podcast, we don't ask for you to pay for us, we don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple, give us a five star rating because it shows us you care and if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that, but we really do appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.

Sam.