Ultra Woman with Dede Griesbauer

Foreign.

I'm charlie redding.

And I'm claire fudge and this is.

The tribe athlon podcast.

And so it was just sort of this new sort of shiny object out in front that I just grabbed onto and I was like, yes, this is the path forward. I'm going to be a professional triathlete.

That was Dee Greaseback and this episode is Ultra Woman. Diddy Griesbach recently became the Ultraman World Champion at the astonishing age of 52. So she didn't turn pro until she was 35. But Didi is a veteran professional triathlete being a three time Ironman champion and a two time 70.3 champion. She's also the 201612 hour time trial world champion where she set the course record for 258 miles beating all of the men at the same time. She won ultraman Florida in 2020 where she set an Ultraman world record and she is the 2022 Ultraman world in where she also set a course record by over 40 minutes. 45 minutes actually. So it was awesome that Claire and I got to chat to her. Plus former Tribathlon co host Laura Siddle, or Sid as we know her, who crewed for Didi at her Ultraman win. And so we wanted to chat to both of them about the difference in strategy from Iron Distance to ultra distance triathlon, about creating longevity in the sport through smart recovery and how to build a great support team around you. This is a brilliant chat with Claire, obviously the co host, Sid, our previous co host and Didi Greasebauer. I know you're going to enjoy it, so dive straight in. 33 fuel produce award winning natural sports nutrition. Everything they do is led by their philosophy for performance health and for a fitter future. 33 Fuel's awesome products have been fuelling triathletes since 2012 as well as many of the world's best athletes from other sports like the England football team, Tour de France winners and triathlon world champs, including four times Ironman world champ Chrissie Wellington who's been using 33 fuel for years. I personally love their price. I particularly love their protein shake. I think it's delicious but it's also not full of a load of junk. I love their meal replacement which is kind of brilliant for pre or post workout recovery. I love their Chia gels, actually they work really well for me, but especially I love their energy bars and their protein bars. They feel like a proper treat to eat as well as being packed full of real amazing goodness. So find out more about 33fuel.com and if you use the code code Tribeathlon or click the link in the show notes, you'll get a very extra special discount on your order. So, Didi, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast and we've got a slightly special episode here because we've got Claire with us as well. But also former co host Sid is back because of the link up between Deedee and Sid in the Ultraman. So Deedee, thank you so much for for joining us. I'm really looking forward to chatting. I suppose the place to start is the story behind how you got into triathlon, you know, the background that you came in from and how you found your way into triathlon. So let's start there, if that's okay.

Yeah, sure. So I in my earlier years I was a swimmer. I'm not particularly super athletic by nature and I think my parents found that the softness of water and being in the pool was a safe space, excuse me, for a kid who fell down a lot and I don't know, every time I bounced on a trampoline I dislocated a knee. I was sort of gangly and not particularly athletic. Anything with balls and sticks didn't seem to suit me. So the pool was someplace that I both enjoyed and seemed to thrive. So I had spent my my younger years as a swimmer, swam collegiately and was a part of the U.S. national team. So I did quite well with my swimming career. And there wasn't really post collegiate swimming. When I finished my college career. I did hang on and swim for a couple of years post collegially, which was very unusual at the time compared to this day and age where there's coaching groups and swim leagues for post collegiate swimmers and there's really a thriving sort of community and there's no expectation that when college ends, your swim career ends. But back in the day for me that was sort of the the expectation that when college ended, your swim career ended. And I hung on for a couple of years after that, but wasn't really progressing as much as I wanted to be and felt I was falling behind professionally. So I finished swimming and went on to a career on Wall street and I had gotten my MBA in the meantime on the path to my Wall street career. And during business school I was tired from studying and just kind of burnt out. And I turned on the TV and lo and behold, there was the Ironman. And I was gobsmacked. I watched it on tv. It happened to be a very dramatic race. It was the year Karen Smyers came from very far behind during the marathon and chased down Paula Newby. Frazier collapsed like 800 meters from the finish line right after Karen had passed her. And I just was like, this is unbelievable. I've got to try this. So I knew I had three months off after my graduation from business school before I had to start my job on Wall Street. And I didn't have any money because I had just paid for business school. So I signed up for an Ironman. They didn't cost as much back then as they do now, so I could afford it. And I decided to take that three months and train as hard as I could and get as fit as I could and do an Ironman. But at the time, it was a one and done. So I did the one. I went to work on Wall street, and a couple of years later, I just sort of got the itch. I was like, I kind of want to try one more. Want to train a little harder and just race it a little smarter now that I kind of know what's up. And I ended up qualifying for the Ironman World championship and, and got a coach and went all in on triathlon. Yeah.

Fantastic. And I, I, I went on. When listening to your story on another podcast, we, I found that we, we almost had something in common here. So I was cycling in Florida a week or two ago, and I'm embarrassed to say, I ran over a squirrel. I killed a squirrel with my bike.

You're lucky you didn't kill yourself because that' they're treacherous, those little squirrels.

I know. So, but I, but, but I've heard you talk about the fact that you nearly killed a squirrel as a child, and that's one of the reasons why your, your children, your parents sent you swimming. Give us the detail around that.

Yes. So in the column of the unathletic things that Dede does, I was at summer camp as a child, and while swimming was an activity that I could have gone and earned all of the camp badges and awards, I, I wanted to challenge myself and put myself out of my comfort zone. And so it was a very bold, I don't know, 8 year old. I marched over to the archery range because I was just fascinated by archery and I was terrible. Yeah. I spent the full two weeks of summer camp on the archery range and not once did I hit the target, but I did hit a squirrel. And the running joke was that I killed the squirrel. I did not actually, like, Pierce the squirrel. I think that would have been tremendously traumatic. But I do think the Squirrel probably needed some counseling after the interaction with the arrow that I hurled in its direction. So yeah, I just like hand eye coordination is not, it's a little known secret, I'll say it right now, that of my husband and I, he is the far better athlete than I am. I might be the professional athlete, but he's a way better athlete than I am. I am not what you would call classically athletic. So. Yes. So yes.

And Sid, in, in your interactions with dede, have you witnessed this?

She hasn't killed any. She hasn't killed any squirrels or killed me.

My bike handling skills haven't run sit off the road just yet.

She's still bike handling skills. She does spend a lot of time on the trainer, I would say that. But her bike handling skills are pretty good. We're getting there on the descending. Mind you, neither of us are that good on that so. And then I do would say we both have the same strength trainer Kate Liger here in Boulder who's, who's absolutely brilliant. And there are a few. I often come into the session after Deedee and Kate have had their session and they're like trying to throw a med ball through a hoop or do some kind of hand eye coordination and stuff and there's normally a few laughs and stuff of that and the sort of fairly. She's not, I would say though she's not that she's not as bad as she makes out. She's fairly. She talks herself down a lot. She's a lot better than she thinks that hand eye coordination and that sort of thing.

Excellent. And tell us about. So you turn, you didn't turn pro as a, as a triathlete until you were 35, I think. So tell us about how that came about and, and how long you thought it would last turning Pro at 35.

Yeah, it was sort of, I don't want to say it was a joke because obviously quitting one's otherwise well paying job and fairly serious Wall street career to become a professional triathlete is a very serious decision. But it was kind of a little bit of a joke in that we really thought it would just be for a year or two that it would be this sort of crazy experience we could talk about when we got old and gray. Like remember that year I quit my job and raced professionally. My coach was the one that suggested it. We were just riding to sits point, riding the trainer one day. In fairness we were in Boston in the middle of winter so we needed to be on the trainer but we were riding the trainer one day and she just kind of looked over at me and she just said, completely out of the blue, would you ever consider quitting your job and racing professionally? And the timing of it was super interesting. And met. I worked on a trading desk. There were Maybe, I think 14 of us on the desk. The head of our desk had just passed away. She had cancer. And it was very sad. She was a lovely woman. She had just passed away. And there was no obvious heir apparent to run the desk. So politically speaking, they had sort of put this committee of four people together to run the desk. And I was not one of the four, which is kind of fine. But at the same time, I was like, what am I doing? Like, I wasn't very good. I was good at my job, but I'm not very good at office politics. And so I was feeling a little down about that. And at the same time, Karen just sort of suggested, hey, why don't you? Would you ever consider it? And I was like, you know, I'm just kind of doing okay in my job. If I'm not being promoted to one of these people that could have a potential to run this desk in the future, what am I doing on Wall Street? Like, I don't belong here. And so it was just sort of this new, sort of shiny object out in front that I just grabbed onto. And I was like, yes, this is the path forward. I'm going to be a professional triathlete. And thankfully, my husband was on board and fully supportive and actually told me when I came home and suggested that maybe I was thinking about this. He looked at me, he said, if you don't go in and quit your job tomorrow, I'll quit it for you.

But again, you had to, didn't you go home with, like, several bottles of wine to get him drunk first before you.

But it only took a half a bottle. I mean, he, yeah, there was a little bit of alcohol involved. I thought it was going to be a much more difficult conversation than it was. But, but we really at the time did not think. I, I thought it would be this, like, great adventure. Let's see what happens. And it just sort of took off. In my second year as a pro, I won an Ironman and I got a bike contract and I had qualified for the Ironman World Championships as a pro in my first year. And I, I, I was having some success with it and having, more importantly, having fun with it and really enjoying it. And it just sort of kept, kept going. And here I am 19 years later. I haven't gone back to Wall street.

Yet and we're definitely going to come on to the Ultraman. But in your sort of in the Ironman chapter, what's the highlight race? Because I mean you've obviously been doing this now for a long time. You've had some amazing results. What's the standout moment from on the sort of Ironman distance racing?

Honestly, I think, I mean it's hard to pick just one over so many years of racing and Sid will attest to that as well. It's just there's so many great venues and so many great memories that you walk away from the sport with. But I think my very first Ironman win I think would have to go down as as one of the super special ones I had gone. It was in my second year as a pro and I had raced Ironman Coeur d' Alene in June and it was one of those days in Coeur d' Alene where it was 115 degrees. You could fry an egg on the pavement. It was so bloody hot and I got to hard to say about 10k on the marathon and hit the deck like I hit the deck and the Coeur d' Alene course. At that point I was out sort of on the lake, no spectators because again it's so hot. I was actually sort of rescued by a fisherman who was literally fishing on the lake, saw me go down. I was nowhere near an aid station. The pros had started so far out in front there were no other athletes out on the course at that point. The pro women were so spread out he literally like boated to shore and called 911. I just was. I was horribly dehydrated as many people dropped like flies in that race. So it ended up being a disaster. My coach recommended at the time that I back it up and head to Ironman Switzerland which was like two weeks later. She was like you're super fit. She's like it was just the conditions on the day. She's like I really think you should go race Switzerland. My confidence was super rocked by the whole experience. That was my first DNF and so I wanted a little more time to build up my confidence. So I decided to race Ironman UK which was not until August. It gave me a few more weeks to sort of get my feet back under me and get a sense of confidence again. And so I headed off to the UK all by myself which was a huge adventure. This is, keep in mind this is how old I am before smartphones and so I Headed over with a bunch of paper maps, landed in London, rented a car where I'm driving on the wrong side of the car on the wrong side of the road with paper Google Maps printed out. Making my way down to Sherborne. I saw Stonehenge on the way, which was fantastic. I literally. You're driving down the highway and all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, that's Stonehenge. Got out, gave a, got a little self tour of Stonehenge, got back in the car, pulled into this tiny village in the middle of, sorry, nowhere England and was like, I don't know how to find my, my Airbnb. It wasn't even an Airbnb, it was a bed and breakfast. Like, how do I find this?

It's.

It was an adventure. And so I won the race and it was just, to me, super memorable because I just felt very brave, sort of flying off to the UK all by myself and conquering. Coming back from a really terrible Ironman race and then winning my first Ironman. My one regret is that literally my husband wasn't there when I got to the finish line. I remember saying, does anybody have a phone so I can call my husband? But you know, that was a, it was a really special moment because it, it gave me the confidence that maybe I could be good at this. Certainly the first Ironman win is always special. And then sort of coming back from such a disappointing race at Coeur d' Alene also was triumphant. A less triumphant moment was when I drove the car back to my bed and breakfast after the race and hit a metal pole and really damaged the side of the car. Yeah, that. There went all my prize money. Oh dear.

You obviously have the same conditions in Sherborne as you did in Coeur d' Alene as well.

No, it was very different. It was not yet lucky. It didn't rain, which I was so happy. It did not rain. And it, but it was, it was, they were great conditions. It was. I, I loved that race, I tell you that. The Brits, they cheer so politely. I, I loved every minute of that race. I really did.

How do you feel that your swimming background has kind of helped you with triathlon and now sort of into Ultraman as well?

Yeah, I, I think I had a degree of success fairly early in the sport because of the aerobic engine that I had developed.

I.

As I said, I'm not particularly athletic, but in the very early years of my triathlon career, as I said, I won an Ironman in only my second year As a pro, which I think is unusual, it can be quite a journey. But I had been swimming competitively since the age literally of 5 or 6 and had been swimming sort of at a very serious level for a number of years. Swimming 20 to 25 hours a week, you develop an aerobic engine that I think served me really, really well when I came to triathlon. So in spite of the fact that I had obviously taken a break from sport for a number of years while I was both getting my MBA and working on Wall street, there were a number of years where I was running to keep fit and I was swimming a bit. But I would, I wouldn't say what I was doing was training by any sense of the word, but when I came to triathlon and did start training properly again, that engine just seemed to fire right up. And I think that really helped with early success in the sport.

And do you think I heard you say on a podcast that, that you question, you know, you questioned whether you would have gone into triathlon if you'd achieved more with swimming. How did that influence your, you know, your, how did your swimming career influence your triathlon career?

Yeah, like, I think certainly had I fulfilled all of my dreams? It's hard to say, right? You can never, you can Monday morning, quarterback it all you want. There's no way to know what, how my life would be different, you know, if I had sort of satisfied, satiated all of my goals and dreams as a, as a swimmer. I just know that when the opportunity presented itself for me to be a career athlete again, I just, I love being an athlete. I think it's, it's part of my DNA. I think in relation to my swimming, I saw triathlon as an opportunity to do things better. I had had enough time and space away from my swimming career that I could look back on it and notice some of the things I did wrong. It's hard to do when you're in the midst of a sport career, even though you're, you're doing obviously your best to be as good as you can be, you're making mistakes along the way that you don't even realize. And I think I had enough. My swim career was enough in the rear view mirror that I really could look back at it sort of with a, with a level brain and say, these are some things that I really could have done better. And so when the opportunity presented itself to become a professional triathlete, I really did try to take some of those lessons into my triathlon career so that I could be a Better athlete on the whole. And I made a little bet with myself along the way. One of those things you think about on a long ride by yourself when you've got nothing but empty space in your brain. My event as a swimmer, my primary event was the 200 meter backstroke. And my highest world ranking in my swimming career was sixth in the world. And I made a little bet with myself. I wondered if I could be a better triathlete than I was a swimmer and finish higher at the Ironman World Championship than better than sixth to see which sport I was better at. And so far I've. I've not yet bested that and I think time may be running out.

I do love how you say not yet. We are still the athlete here.

We are still there. We're not done yet. But I'm not holding my breath for a top five finish in Kona anytime soon. At the age of 52, my best finish at the Ironman World Championship is seventh which I think. Sid, is that the same for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So now you have a goal to one up me and get you top five.

I'm not sure that's going to happen either.

My money's. My money's on Sid to, to turn out the best performance amongst us now between my sixth in my 200 backstroke, my seventh at the Ironman World Championship. It's all on you now. Sid.

Does it count when you say in terms of world ranking, do we have to be professional in this? Because if we both race stage group, I think we might do it.

I know right.

In the 80 to 85 category when we're still racing.

I was gonna say you're still too young. Sid. Whenever I'm at an Ironman race and things aren't. Aren't really going well, it's sort of a running joke, you know. I'll ask if I run by and our coach Julie Dibbons happens to be at the race he'll be like am I winning my age group?

But surely you have. You have achieved exactly what you were looking for because of, because of Ultraman. So tell us about. So tell us about Ultraman and becoming world champion at the age of 52. So can I just.

I'm going to jump in there and I will, I will get on. She is also like world record holder for time trialing as well. So she has a few again plays it down on a few World Championship rankings of number one accolades. But anyway, yeah, Ultraman.

Yeah. So Ultraman came about a very good friend of mine, Hilary Bisquet is that she's a retired professional triathlete. She won the Ultraman World Championship back in, gosh, 2013, I believe. And Hillary is a bit of a nutter in that she loves the crazy long stuff. You know, she'll just go out on a random Saturday and run rim to rim to rim, which is, you know, across the Grand Canyon, back and forth and back and forth just because it's there. And that's just a regular Sunday run. She loves to bang out a marathon on the treadmill every Sunday, like as just. She loves to just smash herself in training. And so the Ultraman was right up her alley. And I tagged along to a talk she was giving about her experience at the Ultraman World Championship and sort of sat in the back and listened to her talk about the event. And I thought, God, like I had the same reaction I had when I saw the Iron man on TV that, God, that's just. I'm super intrigued. And a lot of my motivation comes from genuinely wondering what is possible, Would I be able to do that? I saw the Iron man on TV and I was like, would I be able to do that? I heard about Hillary's experience with Ultraman and a running joke throughout my athletic career, even as a swimmer, had been that as the distance gets longer, I kind of get better as a swimmer. As I said, my primary event was the 200 meter backstroke, but my physiology was that of a distance swimmer. So actually there was a couple of meets where my coach threw me into the mile, which is a freestyle event, but he would have me swim at backstroke and used to joke in a somewhat condescending way that if the, you know, mile, backstroke had been an Olympic event, I might have been Olympic champion. Unfortunately, it's not. So there you go. So the notion of longer distance things was somewhat appealing to me and that I think I had kind of a knack for it. And as sid said, In 2016, I had had a number of injuries just stacked up back to back to back. And Julie Dibbons had recommended that I do the. There's an event called the 6:12 or 24 hour time trial World Championship in Borrego Springs, California. And she said, you pick the distance, you can do six, you can do 12, you can do 24. Just she thought it would be a great for me to have sort of a competitive outlet. Cause I literally hadn't been able to race all year because of run injury, but I had been able to swim and bike and my fitness was pretty decent. And so she's like It'd be good for you to have a goal. I was sort of wandering aimlessly without being able to race. And so I, I ended up choosing the 12 hour because 6 hours didn't seem super epic and 24 hours, as Sid knows, I'm a girl who likes my sleep. So that didn't seem very practical as one to try. So I chose the 12 hour race and I got maybe eight or nine hours into it and was literally happy as a clam. Like, I was like, this is fun. I'm still having fun, I'm still enjoying this. I'm still smiling, I'm still laughing, I'm still engaged mentally. And it occurred to me I might be good at this and I'm not sure I want to be. Ironically, Hilary Bisquet had heard how well I was doing in the race and she lives in San Diego and jumped in the car with her, I think, three week old child and drove to Borrego, which is only about 90 minutes away, and cheered me to the finish line and literally was there with her husband, child, their three dogs. It was like a traveling circus. She came running up to me at the finish line, she looked at me and she said, now all you'd have to do is run a double marathon tomorrow and you could be an Ultraman world champion. And I looked at her and I was like, absolutely not. I was spent. So it took a few years for me to muster up the courage to sign up for Ultraman. But it was something in the back of my mind I really thought I might be well suited to. During the pandemic, obviously, when we didn't have a lot of triathlon racing, I had snuck into a 50k trail race again to sort of test, do I have what it takes mentally, physically to run this, these kind of ultra distances? Can I learn how to fuel them? That was a big question mark. So I had sort of quietly been putting the pieces of the puzzle together. I had done the 12 hour time trial, I'd run a 50k, which is still nowhere near, you know, a double marathon. But I'd sort of been delicately dipping my toe in the water to put the pieces of the puzzle together to give me the courage to finally do this Ultraman thing.

Awesome. So for those people, for those people that don't understand the difference between the Ironman format and the Ultraman format, can you just give us, give us a bit of an overview of what it involves and then tell us about the actual win in Kona last year?

Yeah. So as many people are familiar with Ironman a single day, 140.6 mile race consisting of 2.4 miles of swimming, 112 miles of biking and 26.2 miles of running. I'll let Sid do the conversion to metric because I'm horrible with it.

We're happy with that.

It's the uk. It's miles. I was gonna say imperial.

Most people, most people will know the Iron man distances. So Ultraman originally I had thought Ultraman was just a double Iron Man. It's far different than that. So day one Ultraman is three days and 320 miles. Ish. Another thing that makes Ultraman a little distance. Yeah, the mileage is ish. It's far less proper. So the day one is a 10k swim and a 91 mile bike. Day two is 171ish mile bike and day three is a double marathon. So it's across three days, which for me actually was sort of nice because you get a break, you get to rest, you get to regroup and refocus for the, for the day to come. So it's three days, 320 miles and the Ultraman World Championship takes place on the Big island of Hawaii. It's a self supported event so you have to have a crew. Your crew follows along in a van and feeds you snacks and deals with all of your wide ranging emotions as they pop up throughout the event. And we race literally around the Big island of Hawaii. So those familiar with Hawaii, the swim starts at the exact same place that the Ironman World Championship swim starts there at the pier. And we swim down to Keahoe Bay and we exit at Keaho Bay and we ride up to Volcano. Spend night one in Volcano. Day two, we descend from Volcano, do a lap around the Red Road which for people that don't often get to the other side of the island. Sid actually was on my crew and we did some course reconnaissance and actually drove that portion of the course leading into the race. It is spectacularly beautiful. I think Sid was more excited for the Ultraman after seeing the Red Road. Yeah.

But then in the race we didn't get to go down that section. So I was so glad I'd done it on in the car wrecking there were dolphins, it was just, yeah. Stunning coastline. It's the parts of the island of Hawaii that you know, sorry, tangent, but like everyone predominantly associates Hawaii and Kona with Kona Town and the Ironman course and the Queen K and yeah, that's, you know, for some people that is spectacular. But if you actually go around the other side of the island and down to Volcano and down that south, put itself sort of east, east side and all of that east coast. It's absolutely incredible. It's like Jurassic Park. It's amazing.

It is.

I.

While I was there in October, I. I agree. I. It's absolutely. I did a lap in the car, not on the bike. As much as I would have liked to have done that, it is incredible. And I think I'm right in saying you go through 11 of the 13 different. What's the term? Climate.

Microclimates.

Microclimates. Thank you. Of the world in one small island, which is absolutely.

We certainly experienced that in driving the course. At one point, we had descended down from Volcano and it literally was raining so hard, I felt like our car was swimming. Sid was driving and I looked over at Sid and my eyes were just humongous. We couldn't see anything. And we were both thinking at the same time, like, what if it's like this when I actually have to be riding out there? But we never spoke it. We never spoke.

And then like five minutes later, it was like hot blue sky sunshine. You wouldn't even have known. There was, like. I would say one thing. So Didi's reaction when she heard the story about Hilary Biscay doing Iron man, it was like it kind of ignited her. Her desire to do it. I will say, when I was driving the course with her and then crewing, I had no intent. It is not any. It did not hook me in at all well. Saying I'm never doing this race. The only thing I would say, I. I don't want to do the race, but I would love to ride that will come onto it. Like day two. Day two on the bike. Just because it was stunning, which is. I mean, that's easy to do, but.

Anyway, sorry, you've beaten me to one of the questions. It was going to be, are you now going to. Sounds like that's a definite.

Well, it's partly because you have to. Dede hasn't said is like, she had to do Ultraman Florida first to qualify for Ultraman World Champ. So you have to do two if you're going to do it anyway. But, yeah, so.

So having crude Sid, I think there might be special dispensation and I do have that slot on offer. Anyway, so day two, it's that we bike from Volcano, past the Red Road, across the Hilo side, up through Waimea and then down Kawai High up to Hawi. So we basically bike all the way around from Volcano to Javi. We spend night two in Javi and then this is what really sort of like roped me in. Like what the lure that got me into Ultraman that had me thinking like, how do you even do that? Day three, we run from Javi back to Kona. So as an Ironman athlete, I have done that Ironman World Championship course time and time and time and time again. I think I've raced the event 10 times in my career. Been out there for training camps, been out there in preparation for the Ironman World Championship. That ride. So many triathletes are familiar with that ride from Javi back to Kona. And I just couldn't wrap my head around the fact that we're gonna run that. It was mental in training. In the weeks Sid and I had gone out in preparation for the Ultraman World Championship in November, we had gone out a couple of weeks early. Sid put her life on hold very graciously and came out to support me during all that. And we drove out to do, we did I think a 17 mile run starting in Javi basically down to Kawaihai. And it took us forever to drive out there. We're in the car. I was like, we're still driving. I was like.

And I was, when I, when I was at the World Champs in October as well and I was coming back on the bike from Harvey going and like. And it's always, you know, you're in that race, it's that second half of the bike course and stuff and I'm like, just think it could be worse. You could be running this. Oh, oh, you are going.

Yeah. So it was, it's, it's a, it's a monstrous undertaking. The, the logistics as I said, are quite difficult in that the planning that goes into it because you're spending the night. The difference. When I had done my qualifying race at Florida, we started and finished in the same place every day. So we went back to the same accommodation in Hawaii. You're spending the night in a different venue each night of the race. So then there are considerations, well, how am I going to feed myself? How am I going to feed my crew? What supplies can we bring? You have to keep a home base in Kona because you're not going to do things like carry your bike box around the island with you. So the logistics and the planning of it are much, much more complicated than even an Ironman, which is a pretty complex undertaking. So because it's a self supported race, we're sort of doing reconnaissance on okay, where are the convenience stores where my crew can stop and get ice and more fluids and more calories, et cetera, et cetera? So the logistics and the planning that is involved is almost as challenging as the physical training itself.

Do you think it becomes more like, obviously, doing Ironman races and doing triathlon? You're very much on your own in that, in that race, especially doing Ironman for such a long period of time, but doing an Ultraman, obviously you're out there for a huge amount of time, but does it feel more like a team event because you've got your crew with you? Does it feel different psychologically?

100%. And I think that's what I love about it. We all say as Ironman athletes that it takes a village, and we all rely on our village, you know, our, our coaches, our families, our, you know, massage therapists, physios, nutritionists, all of those people that support network that puts the pieces of the puzzle together to get us ready to race on the day. And Ultraman just sort of takes it that one step further where those people are out there with you every step of the way. I mean, at any given point, my crew was never more than a mile or two away from me and oftentimes much closer. And I don't know if they even comprehend how much I attribute my performance in my Ultraman races to them because they are so inexorably linked to my success or failure out there on the day that it's such a special, it's such, they are such a special part of the whole performance. And I love that. I love. And that's why both times I selected my crew pretty carefully in terms of people I knew would be up to the task, because it's exhausting, it's difficult. It is a lot. And all that sends me to that. It's a lot of work. And I try to be very kind to my crew because I realize that they are sacrificing a great deal to be out there for me, you know, and you get into those dark moments of the race where you just want to pout and just lash and you try not to, but they've got to deal with you, and that's not easy.

So let's bring Sid in at that point. What was it like to have the shoe on the other foot and you to be the support crew as opposed to the athlete?

I mean, I, I, it was great. I think, I think again, our. It worked so well. One, this was several years in making. She'd qualified in Florida and that Was like pre pandemic and then had delays and delays and delays. But what that actually meant was Didi had put so much time, not in, not obviously the physical side of it, but into that planning and that preparation. And I think that's one of the reasons why we as a team were successful as well, because her planning was so good and detailed in terms of we had that home base in Kona, we had all our accommodations set out on each night, we knew where we were going to get food and actually everybody was allocated roles in the team and obviously she picked the best awesome people in the world, which helps. So. But we all knew our role and I think, you know, we spoke about it as a team. So the team, it was Julie Dibbons, our coach, Kate Liger, who I've mentioned is our strength coach, myself, Sophie Evans, who does massage for Didi, myself and then Dave, Didi's husband. And we're all probably a type personalities, we're all athletes as well, or ex athletes. And any one of us could have led that team, put that in inverted. But we all knew, you know, we all had those roles. Julie was the team leader, sort of on, on course, Dave was sort of off course and then the rest of us had different roles to do and we all knew that and we all did it and then. So we all would support each other in doing those roles. But we knew that sort of. And what we did during the day as the race went on, we each had a different role. We set ourselves up at our aid stations. Like you said, it's self supported and I would be the first person that would come up to. And I would sort of yet either collect. She would be throwing bottles at me, empty bottles. I probably, most of the time I didn't have anything to give her, but it would be instructions about, right, this is what's coming up, or you need to take this. And then it would be Julie. And Julie would either hand her something but also be giving race instructions and stuff. And that's the voice she needed to hear. So that's why. So I would, I would run way down the road so she could sort of get past me and then have a clear head to then get to Julie. And then obviously then it was Kate, Sophie, Dave or whatever, whatever order they did. And we kind of set that up really standard each aid station. So it wasn't a surprise coming up to be like, oh gosh, Laura's now where, you know, and that sort of thing. And then again, like at the end of the day we Each knew a role, we each knew what we had to do. And, and that kind of. It just made it, it worked really well. We had, we had an amazing van to thankfully get us around the island. I think if you look on my socials and Didi socials, you can, you can see it burgundy.

It was, it was, it was touch and go. For a little while there, it was.

Touch and go whether we would make it around the island. It was a very classic, old retro. Probably is the best way to describe it. Sort of campervan.

Yes. Sprinter van. Yeah, like a. Yeah, it was like a 1978 Sprinter van.

Apart from the flat tire that Kate had to pump up several times a day with the bike pump just to get us around it. It actually worked brilliantly because again, almost in the van we all had our different roles. It was super recognizable. So in fact, not just Didi, but all the crews could see us and it kind of became this sort of character and part of it. So, yeah, it was, it was a fantastic experience. And I think like spending the two weeks prior and, and going through it and then just again I will emphasize like the planning, the preparation that Dede did was testament to how successful the team was in supporting her in the incredible race that, that she had as well.

Brilliant. Brilliant. I, I think it sounds fantastic.

I. Well, I'm also saying, I'm gonna say, because Didi, you won't know this, but these two nutters who are on the left of my screen as we're looking at it, the listeners won't be able to see that Charlie and Claire, they are both extreme, like ultra distance crazy people as well. And I can both see them like they're going on my website and searching out Ultraman race to sign up for.

Well, the funny thing is actually Ultraman that I can blame for getting into triathlon because I was only a cyclist and I read Rich Roll's book Finding Ultra and which is themed around him running Ultraman having been a reformed, you know, refer. Reformed alcoholic. And I was like, wow, that sounds super cool, but I've got to actually be able to run and swim first. So I. Yeah, Sid, it's definitely on the list.

And I would say as well, like you mentioned about sort of the team putting up with the athletes again, the, the performance that Didi had was so amazing because again, the preparation that her and Julie and Kate and the team had put in nutritionally wise, like, I don't. Day three is probably where it gets really tough indeed. You, you come in on this, but the first two days, she. There was never really a bad moment. Like, there was no really, like, harsh athlete words or vice versa. It was just awe inspiring watching her ride the way she did and the swim and stuff, which was incredible. And I think the. The one moment that stands out was. Was on the marathon, sorry, the double marathon. And I can't remember how far in we were. We were on the Queen K at this point, weren't we? And I think I was running with you. And we as a team, we've got all these different plans of like, yes, we've got our nutrition plan, but what are the other things that. In case that's not working or need to change the flavor and stuff like this. So we've got some lemonade, I think it was. Anyway, so we're running and. And we decide as a crew, we're like, oh, let's give us some lemonade at this sort of next. Next stop, just as a change of flavor. And I'll let. I'll let you carry on from here, Didi.

Things were going remarkably well. It was run day, which, since the start of this thing had been like the 3,000 pound elephant in the room. I'm not a great runner to begin with. It's where I struggle the most nutritionally and had to do the most work to figure out how we were going to get through 52 miles of running. But things were going really well. I was feeling really good. I was running really well. And the decision was made to, just, as Sid said, inject some new flavors. And so as I approached Julie, and obviously on the run day, it's much easier because you're moving at a much slower pace. So Julie told me, she handed me a cup. She's like, this is just some lemonade. We're going to try something a little different. And so I looked at it and I was like, what? Like, my initial reaction was, why would we change it? Everything's going so well. And I took a sip and I just had a complete meltdown. I. I chucked, if I'm not mistaken, I threw the cup possibly at Sid. And it was like, I. I got like, I was. I was a strange combination of, like, more like mortally wounded that they would feed me lemonade, but also really, like, emotional about it. I was like, why would you guys do that to me? Why would you feed me lemonade? Terrible. And I was like, oh, like, I was asking for, you know, what I wanted. I'm like, I wanted more. Tim, why are you giving me lemonade? It was the worst thing Ever. It was like, okay, okay, it's fine. I'm gonna get you some more tin.

I'm like, I want it now. So I guess like sprinting off to the van up ahead to like try and get. Okay, someone give me support quickly so I can get back out or whatever.

It was literally Sid's like, right, no more lemonade. That was clear. Message received. Lemonade is a no go.

Sid, you were, you were obviously running with, with Dede at some point. So how does it work with kind of like the rules of Ultraman in terms of can you have somebody then biking with you as well? Just running?

Yeah. So. So on the, for the 10k swim you have a kayaker and Didi had a fantastic local guy called Gabe who is fisherman, kayaker, knows the water. I mean, I think we were so lucky to, to get connected with Gabe and he was just, was such an amazing part of the team as well. And a really nice bit he came out. So when we were on the double marathon on day three, suddenly we're sort of maybe 20k from the finish and suddenly there's a car parked on the side of the Queen K and it's Gabe standing there and he's, he'd come out to support and he was there at the finish line. So that was, so that was amazing. Yeah, they're on the bike, you're on your own. It's non drafting. So we. And as a crew, you don't want to be too far away from them, but you can't follow, you can't lead them. Obviously we did follow down behind on one of the sort of technical descents, but more of a safety thing and then you sort of clear off. So we're all. You're always leapfrogging and then on the run again, as I said, you're moving a bit slower so it's easy to leapfrog. So the car, the van was sort of going in two mile leapfrogs to start with and then we sort of decreased that down to a mile towards the end. But on the run you can have a pacer and you can do that for the whole run, whatever you want to do. They can't be in front of you and they can't sort of shield you from, from the wind, effectively.

I'm gonna interject here just because it's, it's a funny story. When we were talking about Ultraman and obviously it had been. We were hoping to race in 2021 and Sid was going to pace in 2021 and then we obviously got postponed a year to 2022. So we had, again, a really long Runway to talk about all of this stuff. And at one point, I think. I don't know if we were out on a ride one day. I don't even remember where we were. But Sid sort of looked at me and she's like, so for Ultraman, she's like, do you, like, wear a hydration pack? And I looked at her and I was like, sid, you are my hydration pack.

You're wearing the hydration.

And if you see. Actually, if you see. If you see. So again, see some of the photos of the videos. I've got, like, a bottle down my back. I think I've got bottles in my hand. I've got, like, gels, but. But that's the thing. Like, you're so close to the van all the time. And again, we had a good team. So actually, Julie set it up that Didi ran the first part of the like. So from Harvey down to Kawaii High, she ran on her own. Even though I was, like, chomping at the bit to get out. It was almost at that point, like, dibs was having to, like, control me to be in the van. And then we had. So Sophie did a bit of running as well, and Dave did some running. Even Julie, who has seriously bad knees and ankles and hasn't run, I think, since sadly, the end of her career, even she got out and ran a little bit. So we kind of broke it up that way. And then. Yeah, and then I would join in every now and again as well.

There was a strategy in that when, as Sid said, I was going to run, I'm not a confident runner and I never run much with people as a result. And so it was actually a big deal to get sort of comfortable, like, for Sid, in our training, we actually practiced. And it was so great the way she did this, because one of our first training runs together, she's like, I'm just gonna run behind you. And. And I was like, this is great. She's like a half a step back. I don't feel pressure. Everything's fine. And then it was so funny, like, the mental game. She's like, now I'm gonna come up and I'm gonna run beside you. This does not mean you have to run any faster than you're currently running. Like, it was a process to get comfortable running with somebody and getting that sort of. That relationship and that sort of comfort down. It was strangely, it was a hurdle for me. And in the beginning, so Sid was going to get out and run the climb from At Kawaihai up that big hill and onto the Queen K. That was the first big block. She was going to come out and run with me. And I was still running pretty well at that point and feeling pretty good. And Julie had it instructed, Sid, because I'm such a mental when it comes to my running and running with people and just never measuring up and being good enough as a runner. Julie said to Sid, don't say anything. She's like, unless you're spoken to, don't say anything. Instead was like, how do I know anybody that knows Sid? She loves a good chat. So she was like, how am I supposed to not say anything? But she was great.

And.

And there was minimal conversation, and it was just what it needed to be. And that. But as we got deeper into the marathon, the. The crew was going to cycle in so that Sid didn't have to run 52 miles, but the crew was going to cycle in in terms of pacing responsibilities. And at one point, Sid was like, okay, I'm going to peel off. Dave's going to jump on. And I was like, no, what? I was like, I want you to.

Stay at this point. And at this point in my head, I'm like, Dave Steedy's husband, like, how do I now go and tell him that, like, what I'm gonna tell Julie and then tell everyone else that, like, Dave's gonna get back in the van or whatever and I've gotta carry on and like, oh, my God. Stress.

Well, it was. It was for me, the. The conversation. And again, Sid and I had gone through this in training. Sid, like, what sorts of things do you like? We knew the landmarks along the Queen K Highway as we approached town. She's like, do you want to count up or do you want to count down? And I was like, I want to count down. And so then it was about, like, charting the landmarks. And so that. That chat. I wasn't responding much. I was mostly grunting my answers. But that chatter, for me, ended up being a magnificent distraction. And I was like, sid, I don't care what you say, just keep talking.

And. Yeah. And at this point, I'd obviously ignored Julie's. Julie's instructions of not saying anything.

But it became this wonderful thing where I was like, I don't want another pacer. I want Sid out there, because I just want that this is going to come across as sounding. I want that noise. Like, that noise was so helpful to me in that moment, that it was so so great. And I just needed it. I needed that voice to fill my head because the voices in my own head were not moving in a positive direction the deeper into that race we got. Day three.

So how. How many miles did you actually run of that then, Sid?

You know, I actually wasn't. I. I think I was. I wasn't a full marathon. I think maybe between a half and a full. It wasn't, was I? I'd kind of prepared myself to run a lot more. But again, like you said, De was running so well and the team was so good.

We didn't.

Didn't need to. I think I ended up like the biggest. I did run most of the last 20k or so, I'd say probably, I think until the finish, which was, which was interesting because again, from the, from Harvey to the, to the finish line, it's like you don't turn, you know, you hit a T junction and yes, you turn. But as you get to the finish line, they finish in the old airport, which is just on the edge of Kona and which if you've raced the Ironman World Championships, it's the. As you're coming back into town, it's the right hand turn you take on the bike to go back to transition. So that was the only turn I needed to remember. Like, I just needed to remember to turn right. I can't remember the road now and.

I should be able to call it.

Every time we'd driven or we'd ridden past, it was like, turn right at McCalla, turn right in McCalla. And we kind of got there and at this point, you know, Didi had done such an incredible job on day one or two that yes, she had all the fears of the run and what might be and we still had to. You still had to get through that, that day. And nutrition was obviously key on that and just if the body would hold up. But she had. It never feels comfortable until you cross the line. But she had a comfortable lead at that point. We literally just needed to. And I think I remember, you know, the last 10ks did get pretty bleak, I think, for you. And it was like you could literally walk speed, you know, walk this in and you have time. There's no need to panic. We got this sort of thing and we turn. We turn right down McCalla and we get. We're sort of. And of course, and as well, you have to stop at all the traffic lights. If they're on red, you have to abate. So even if you're running, you have to obey all the traffic light. So we tried these tactics of like sending someone in the van to press the button leading up, but we didn't really get it. But thankfully it didn't matter too much. But we turned right to McCalla. We run down, we get to the bottom, we turn right towards the airport and then it was like all. And I was expecting to hear, be able to see like this fanfare and hear the speakers and see like big arches and stuff. And it was like all the signs disappeared and we turned left into the airport and it was, there was just nothing. And I'm like, like, have we got wrong place 51 mile or you know, however we got, got one mile to go, one kilometer to go and I've, we've gone the wrong way and I've. And there was like nothing. And this is, it's this big sort of open space. But the, the road goes around the edge but like you could cut across and I'm like, I can't see anything. I'm like, do we cut across? Do we follow the road? I don't want to get like disqualified at this point. But I can't see the finish. And anyway we carried on and eventually we sort of go around the corner and then you see this, this very understated sort of finish arch and it's like way further down than expected. And I was like, all right, okay, it's fine, we've delivered it to the finish. But it was a slight panic of like, have we gone the right way now? After all of this, we finally it up in the last kilometer.

Brilliant. Didi, I can't help but ask, being world champion at 52, you know, you've, you've clearly had an incredible career. What, what, how has your training changed over time and what do you put that sort of longevity in sport down to and, and what advice could you give other people that want to want that longevity as well?

Yeah, I mean there's so many things I think that have contributed to my longevity in the sport and, and there are things that I'm not even sure that athletes today can even take advantage of. There's so many more race opportunities now and so many exciting race opportunities, particularly for the professionals with the pto. High level racing. Lots of opportunities to earn money as a, as a professional triathlete, which is super exciting, but it demands an awful lot of racing. I've always been very sort of poised and patient in my racing strategy. I didn't, I tried really hard not to over race in my career and I think that has contributed a bit to the longevity, my passion for the sport, the fact that I still want to be here is I think the number one driver. I just, I love it, I love what I do and I'm happy, super happy to be able to be doing it still. So that's another thing is that I just, I want to be here. I think other professionals, look, I don't start an Ironman anymore with the expectation that I'm going to win it. You know, I used to have that desire and I still have the desire. But I think reasonably speaking, my performance expectations have evolved where I'm happy to be in the mix of the race and yeah, if I finish fifth, yeah, that's not great, I'd love to win, but hey, I've finished fifth in a professional field and I'm 50 something years old. Like that's pretty darn impressive. Like, so I, I don't think, not that my standards have fallen, but my expectations for where I'm at in my career, I, I find satisfaction being able to finish in the top five at a race with women who are in their 20s and 30s. I, I think it's exciting. The other thing and the more I think depressing side or the, the bleaker, less fun part of my longevity at this stage of my career, my training and racing demands perfection. I could make mistakes in my late 30s and early 40s and slack off on certain things and it wouldn't be that big a deal. But now I, I can't make those mistakes anymore. If I have the expectation to perform even marginally well, I've got to be good about my recovery, my sleep, my nutrition, my mobility, my strength work. It's all gotta be executed at a higher degree of perfection than ever before in my career if I want to keep performing at this level. So, you know, those things, those things sort of combined an evolution in what I find satisfying in the sport, my love of the sport and my willingness to focus on all of those minute details that sort of, in my 30s and early 40s I could give lip service to and be like, oh yeah, all these things are super important, but kind of do them maybe not with the same degree of attention to detail. Now I've really got to step that up and be near perfect with the execution of all of those little things as I get older.

Is there a particular, we've talked a lot, we've talked a bit about nutrition, but is there a particular area of recovery that you found to, that you, you know, whether it's a technology, whether it's a process, whether it's, you know, is it sleep or what. What area in recovery have you found to make a bigger difference as time has gone on?

I'm gonna. How many hours did you spend in your boots yesterday?

Like I came close to my pr. I think I was in them for like three and a half hours.

Yes.

And just to be clear, these are the inflation in the inflation boots from which I don't know which brand new.

I'm not sponsored, but I use the normatech boots. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, think technologies like those, technologies like the normatech boots, the percussion guns, things like those have definitely helped in self care and I use those with a degree of discipline. But an old school Epsom salt bath also does a marvelous trick in and is a great way to recover and I do that as well. I think for me, the biggest focus I've always been a good sleeper. I've always been really diligent about getting my sleep and happy to do it. I'm happy to go to bed at night, 3pm I don't nap much and I've always been good about massage. And I see a pt. This is another change. I see a physical therapist on a proactive basis so I don't wait to be injured before I go see the PT who then gives me exercises to get me healthy again. I will check in with a PT on about a monthly basis. Assuming everything's going fine, we'll do a quick movement screen. What's been bothering you? Oh, my hip's been a little sore or a little bit tight. And we'll work on those areas proactively before they become problematic. So that's been a bit of a change. But for me, the biggest hurdle has been my nutrition. It's been a source of. It's been something I have struggled with and not really perfected, even going back to my swimming years. And as I've gotten more into the ultra racing, it's become more demand. Like you, you have to get it right. It becomes a bigger piece of the puzzle. That that piece gets a lot bigger. You can go through an Olympic distance race and sort of botch your nutrition and still do okay. You can get through a half ironman and make a couple of mistakes in nutrition and it'll impact your performance, but it might not crush you in an ironman all of a sudden. Yeah, those mistakes get magnified. If you're off on your nutrition in Ultraman, it just gets magnified because it's day after day after day. So you've really Got to get that right. And for something that I'm not very good at to begin with, it's. That's been the most difficult piece of the puzzle for me, is. But on the bright side, it's the biggest opportunity for improvement. And I think that in cleaning up my nutrition, it's also sort of helped me stay competitive, just because I'm fueling myself better than I ever have in my career, and I still have a long way to go.

Is there. Is there anything particular in the area of nutrition that you've done that has. That has made a big improvement or helped make it less bad?

Hawaiian rolls, Baby food. Magic party bottles. Sorry, I wasn't sure what you can.

Say after Magic chocolate ball.

The party bottle. The party bottle. Oh, my. I'm gonna write poetry about the party bottle.

What's the party bottle?

It.

It went in the middle of Ultraman. So Kate was responsible for my nutrition. She tracked everything that basically went in. So if I tossed a bottle back to Sid, Sid would then report to Kate she got through two thirds of whatever it was. Like, this is her electrolyte. Maybe two thirds of the bottle went down. This was a Morton 320 bottle. She got all of it down. This was plain water. It's empty. You know, she would report what was sort of what was being consumed. And so then Kate could monitor what my caloric intake was, what my hydration intake was, et cetera, et cetera, so that we knew what the deficits were or if I was on track, so to speak. And at one point on the bike on day two, Kate handed me a bottle. She was like. Like, this is a party bottle. And I. I literally. I was like, okay. And, you know, my goal was just to be compliant if my crew.

It wasn't lemonade.

I was about to say it wasn't lemonade.

There was no lemonade in this party bottle.

I drank it, and it was a. It was an unusual flavor. It tasted, and it was really cold. And I sucked that bottle down, and I was like, that is the best thing I have ever had in my entire life. And so when I saw my crew next, I handed the bottle back, and I was like, I want another one of those, please.

Which.

So it was all. It was all legal. I would say that was not legal in that bottle, but it is a bit of a secret combination, but it definitely had some caffeine and some flavors in there that just give. That gave that extra, extra bit of a boost.

We did have. We had a bit. We had a bit of a Post race celebration back in Boulder in January, and I actually had custom water bottles made for my crew that said the party bottle on them with the little sort of the little party emoji on them. Yeah, it's, it was, it was a running, it was a running joke. But so for me, that the nutrition was a big piece. And it sounds crazy when you ask, like, what, what have I done to change my nutrition? I've just started eating. Look at how simple that is. Right. Keep in mind, I sort of grew up a swimmer in the 80s and the early 90s under a regime where we were weighed in three times a week in front of the entire team. At one point during my freshman year, I had gained 3/10 of a pound. 3/10 of a pound. And in the middle of the workout, my coach looked down at me, he said, hey, I noticed your weight jumped up a little bit. Are you going to do anything about that? And so I don't honestly believe, looking back at that they thought they were doing harm. I look at swimmers today and they look very different than we looked back in the 80s and 90s. They truly believe that the thinner we were, the lighter we were, the faster we were going to be. And that was, that was what was enforced. And so then to go from that to learning to fuel yourself more properly has been a long process. And even when I know that how important fueling is, and that's been shown to me time and time again and I'm eating more than I ever have, I'm learning, it's still not enough. So I literally like learning to get those calories on board and, and, and the timing of those calories has been a big process for me and it's something that I'm still working on.

Brilliant. Thank you. That's, yeah, it's really interesting and I think, yeah, yeah, it's fascinating how it's changed from what it, what it was when you were swimming to, to today.

So again it's, it's, we get smarter as we go. I think as athletes, we train very differently today than we did in the 80s and 90s. I actually had a really interesting conversation, one of my teammates from Stanford University. And this again, just makes me shake my head and wonder what I'm doing with my life. But her daughter came and trained with our squad a couple of summers ago when she was home on summer break. Her daughter was at Stanford University. And here I am in the pool swimming with one of my teammates children. But I was talking to her a bit about, you know, what Swim training was like now and how it's different than what we did. We were swimming a hundred thousand meter weeks, you know, across obviously multiple sessions but it was a lot of just long. We overtrained our distance I think more than any other sport and that their training has evolved. They're doing a lot more work with strength and power. Their focus in the gym is a lot heavier than ours and as a result as athletes they look just very different. They look much stronger and more robust than we ever did. And I just think we get stronger in triathlon same thing. We talked about how recovery technology has evolved, the nutrition products have evolved enabling us to get in with products before. If you're trying to fuel with Fig Newtons in your ironman, there's only so many Fig Newtons you can shove down your mouth. But with better products now we can get 80, 90, 100 grams of carbohydrate an hour without having it upset your stomach. So sort of as things evolve we get better and, and I'm just trying to sort of ride the back of that wave a little bit and help it improve my performance late into my career.

Fantastic. Now I know, I know, I know. Claire might have to dash off before so I'm going to ask her to ask a question next and then I'll come back to books to finish up. But we always get the previous guest to ask the next guest without knowing who it is. A blind question. So you've got, so Claire's got McKeely Jones's question in front of you, I hope.

Yeah. So in your off season, I'm not sure if you have enough season having just, having just had this conversation. Well, what's your favorite thing to do in your off season?

We had a great off season this year. We had wanted to have a little bit of a holiday after Ultraman. It had been a long time coming with the planning, the logistics. Obviously it was a great big physical effort as well. So we'd wanted to have a bit of a holiday and so we had looked into actually staying on in Hawaii. I quickly realized how expensive that was and that wasn't really in the budget so. So we flew home from Hawaii and put. We have two Labrador retrievers. We threw them in the car and well, we placed them in the car. We didn't throw them number one, they're a bit heavy and number two, that would be cruel. But we put the dogs in the car and we drove to the east coast. It was 2,200 mile drive in either directions. But we spent Christmas On Cape Cod. I grew up spending summers on Cape Cod. I have a deep family history on Cape Cod. I'm third generation Cape Cod and so it's our favorite place in the world. And even in the middle of winter, the weather's not spectacular, but it's just the place I most love to be. And we spent about two weeks on the Cape with family. My parents came up, my mother in law came up and so we had a wonderful off season. So spending time, getting to spend time more quality time with my husband, spending time with my dogs who are, I mean, I'm a 52 year old without children, so they are sort of. My world is, is super special. And then of course the drive home, which wasn't quite as fun as the drive there, but it was an adventure and we, we had a really great time. So really just spending time with family, unplugging a little bit from triathlon and doing non triathlon. Non triathlon related things with, with family.

Fantastic.

And I think I'm right in saying one of the dogs is called Charlie, isn't it?

Yes, our younger dog. She's actually named after the Charles river in Boston. We lived in Boston for a number of years. And there's a song by the Standells called Dirty Water. They play it at all of the Boston sporting events. It's about the, the, you know, the, you can play it, whatever. It's. It's a great song that brings back good memories from our time in Boston. So she's Boston's dirty water dog and we call her Charlie. Yeah, she's our younger one. Our, our older 1 is 9 years old and she is Piper. She's our smart, stoic one. And Charlie's our cute, dumb one.

I assume we're still talking about the dog now.

Yeah, still talking about the dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Excellent. So I, I can't have anybody on this podcast without asking for books. Books or a book recommendation that you found to be influential in your life or career you find yourself recommending to others, if not book, other resources like podcasts or whatever is fine. But particularly I like going after books. So is there any books that you found to be particularly helpful or you find yourself recommending?

I read a book that was. It actually sort of inspired me to focus a little bit more on my mental game. So my husband is a, a, a huge golf fanatic. I mean, it's barely 50 degrees today. It's blowing a gale and he is out on the golf course. He loves to play golf. And there is a famous sports psychologist in the golfing world named Bob Rotella. And back in the day, this was actually in the wake of my 2011 crash. I had a very bad crash at ironman Frankfurt in 2011 that, that threatened the future of my career. And through a network of friends, I ended up on a phone call with Bob Rotella and my husband. I literally, he was like a child dancing around. Meanwhile, I'm talking to Bob Rotella about my deepest, darkest fears as an athlete and he's like, oh, my God, my wife is talking to Bob Rotella. But Bob Rotella wrote a book called How Champions Think. And I, after my phone call with him, I read the book and it really, it was super helpful to me and it was also sort of an inspiration for me to work a bit more on my mental game and focusing on the importance of sports psychology and getting me to work with a sports psychologist. I had dabbled. I had dabbled in sports psychologist through my swimming career, but never with a degree of focus. But it really is an important piece of the puzzle. And so Bob Rotello was super helpful to me, very kind to me in the wake of my crash. And as a result, I bought his book, which also helped propel me to put a great focus in how important, you know, mental preparations as well as physical preparations are in the sporting world.

Well, as, as a golfer, I have read, I think, three books by Dr. Barbara Teller, but I didn't know about this one. So I'm going to be off to track this down. But I think that's absolutely brilliant. And if you're chatting to Bob, I'd love, just feel free to mention the podcast because we'll, we'll go off piste. Dr. Bob Rotella.

To be clear, the Bob Rotella phone call was a one and done. He is not my current and sports psychologist. He's got, he's got, he's. His billable rate is slightly higher than my triathlon salary can afford. Very kind to take my call. And he is very good at what he does. Yeah.

And actually his books. So one of his books is the Golfer's Mind or something along those lines. And it's actually almost as good a book from a business point of view as it is from a sporting point of view, because there's so, like, I always. I often steal his term, which is progress, not perfection. So it's all about getting closer to the whole. It's not about perfection. And I just think there's so much brilliant stuff in those books. So that is an excellent recommendation book. Which I will definitely be reading. And Sid, to put you on the spot, I know you. I asked you this question a long time ago when you were first on the podcast, but is there any extra books that you'd like to throw in the mix now?

I can't remember what I said last time.

I can't either, actually.

Yeah, I'm a. I'm a massive fan of the high performance podcast.

Oh, yes.

With Professor Damian Humphries and Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. My Jake. No, Damien Hughes. Professor Damien Hughes and Jake Humphries. They have two books out. So one book came out a while ago, which is High Performance Lessons from the Best, which is kind of a. A collection of their podcasts, I think, but pulling out some of the lessons from the people they've interviewed. And then they released a book back in last year, I think, which is a more practical kind of work workbook in terms of 365 days of high performance with like different exercises and stuff like that. So I've found those really good as well as the podcast. And then the other book I'm reading at the moment, which is kind of LinkedIn, is Lauren Fleshman, who is a. Or was a. It's called Good for a Girl and she was one of the top US Runners in her day. She. I get there is a connection to triathlon. She is the wife of Jesse Thomas or what. I think they've just actually sort of amicably split, unfortunately. But so. And Jesse Thomas was a. Was a top triathlete and they own piggybars company. But I'm reading that at the moment and it's. It's semi autobiography or it is. It's about her life, but it's very much pulling out themes and issues of women's sport and, and what she had to deal with through. And actually, you know, what Didi openly spoke about with nutrition stuff as swimming and Lauren's awareness of that going on in running when she was super young and coming up through the sport is, Is pretty incredible as well. So, yeah, they're the two. And I think it's a. It's a book that everyone should read, coaches, athletes alike. So, yeah, they would be my ones.

Fantastic. Well, they are a series of excellent recommendations. Thank you for that. They'll be going on onto my ever expanding reading list. Didi, Sid, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I love you. Love the idea of the ultramarine. I think it's. It's where, like I said, it's where My journey into triathlon started, so I suspect that I might be chasing that down at some point. Not your record, by the way, but.

Charlie, Charlie. I'll put this out there now. If you need a crew, you know who to call.

Very high. We're very much into bio. Said you had to one, one, one quick story I know play. I think you probably got to go. So the award ceremony at Ultraman, it's kind of all. Everything is done in proportion to the length of the race. So the award ceremony went with about. For about five hours because they very kindly and openly. It's such a big achievement for, for people and it's such a big journey. They let everybody speak week. Whether you finish the race or not, every competitor that started on day one gets three minutes and they kind of do it in reverse order anyway. So Didi was third overall. So only two guys were ahead of one of those. Only just ahead of her, I'll say that. As well as smashing every record on. On the way to. To get that her own sort of World Championships title. But she got up to speak and they said at the end, they said, you know, we, we don't, we don't give away free entries. You know, it doesn't matter who you are. We don't give away free entries to this event, however, unless you break the course record, which you did. So they offered like. So then they said to do so you have a free entry. And I was kind of just sitting there at the back of him going, can you not just refund her this year? Because, like, can you not just give her back the money from this year's extra entry?

I'll come crew for you next when you do it next time. DD.

I'm pretty sure my response then was and still is, oh, hell no.

Until next time. Excellent.

It's been absolutely brilliant. There's loads to learn there and, and also just a really inspiring story of how you've come through from, from the swimming days right the way through to world world champion at 52. So absolutely brilliant. Much for coming on. Thank you for coming back, Sid. Thank you for your help, Claire as well. And yeah, good luck with the next next races. You want to find out more about DD. Best places to go to are either DD greasebower.com and that's spelled D E-D E and then G R I E S B A U E R or she's Diddy Grease bow on Instagram. If you want to find out more about Sid, then laurasiddle.com or I am Sid on Instagram is a good place to go. And if you want to find out about the Lever system, which I'm about to talk to Claire about, which I was chatting to Sid and Didi about after we finished recording, then go to leverment.com forward slash Laura. And all of those links are in the show notes. So what did you make make of the interview with Didi and obviously Sid as well.

That's fantastic. It was. Do you know, it was. It was really good to one learn more about Ultraman. Not that I'm really tempted now.

Are you not? I'm really.

I am. I'm very tempted.

Oh, I see.

But also to. To learn about her. Her career and actually her background, her background as a swimmer, but also the fact that she's still competing at really high level at her age. It was fascinating just to hear about kind of also her mindset and how she goes into races as well.

Yeah, I thought it was really, really interesting. Ultraman definitely sounds up my street. If I can't qualify for Kona at some point, I'm going back to do it in Ultraman. But I. Yeah, so I think that that was really interesting. I thought it was really interesting how she has to go about that race very differently to a normal iron man, whether it's the team, whether it's the nutrition, the kind of the mindset around it. Yeah, I thought it was a really, really interesting chat about and actually something that we haven't talked about on the podcast at all until now, Ultraman.

And I think having having Laura on as well to kind of talk from the team aspect side of it. And also obviously being a professional triathlete herself, it was really good to have kind of her talking about what it's like to be on the other side really as a. As a member of that team. And I can imagine actually having. Having people on your team that really understand what you're going through. I think that's really important, isn't it? You know, we should talk about sort of handing out supplements and, you know, handing out different kind of food and drink.

And the party bottle.

And the party bottle. Yeah.

Which they wouldn't even. They wouldn't even. Are even offline. They wouldn't tell me what was in the party, really. Ah, yeah, it's top secret, apparently.

But not lemonade.

Not lemonade. Definitely not lemonade. And it did involve caffeine. That's all. All that was said. But no. So actually I was chatting to them for a bit after you dialed out, after you finished recording and. And One thing that. So we were obviously talking a bit about recovery and injury and. And also longevity in the sport. And. And then we carried on that conversation afterwards because I was asking him what races they're doing for this year. They asked me what races I'm doing. I said, oh, well, I'm, you know, supposed to be doing South Africa bailed out of that because I'm injured now I'm worried I can't even do the Lanzarote, which I've done put booked in for as well, by the way. On that note, actually, Iron man have been very good at being able to move me from. They didn't have to, but they moved me from South Africa to Land Roti. So there's a lot of not bad press around Iron man for that sort of stuff. But I think actually they've been really good for me in this instance.

They've actually moved my Iron Man South Africa slot as well.

Excellent. To next year.

Yeah, excellent.

Yeah. So they have. I think they've been. They've been good in. Given they've had a bit of press around that sort of subject lately. But so anyway, I was chatting to them both about recovery and saying, you know, I've got this problem with my knee and my ankle and they said, you want to try the lever system now? I talked to Sid about the lever system previously on the podcast, but I had always assumed it was for people that were properly, you know, like recovering from broken legs and things like that.

Yeah.

And what was really interesting was both Didi and Sid use the lever system for running when they're not injured.

Yeah.

So particularly for long runs, DD was saying, you know, I'll do two or three hours of a normal run and then I'll come in and do the last hour on the lever system because it just reduces that risk of injury, improves longevity. So I'm actually, I'm going to do some more research because, you know, I love a gadget and I'm going to definitely do some researching that. But I will in the show notes put a link that Laura gave me to. To give you a discount on the lever system because I think it looks like a really great.

It's a lot. It's a lot more portable than some of the. The original name for the like supported running basically. And you know, you need. Would usually need to go to a performance center to use one.

Yeah, absolutely. So. So Sid was saying that she can just take this with her and, and wherever she. She obviously travels a lot so she can just take it with her. But I just thought that was really interesting that they were using it to run even when they weren't injured to kind of again, reduce the impact. And also Didi said that it was a good way of working, using it for speed workout as well. So getting your cadence up and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, on that. And then applying that to the road.

Yeah, yeah, interesting. And I think, you know, I think it is more and more interesting, isn't it, how. And we. We've, you know, talk more about snc and I don't know if that's something that she had talked about as part of your kind of talking about injury at all or.

Yeah, well, she. Funny enough I thought she was going to talk about, having listened to her be interviewing, reviewed previously, I thought she was going to talk about S and C stuff. And she sort of mentions it in the recovery piece. But she didn't go into any massive detail, did she? But I know, I know.

Earlier on. Hadn't she as well.

Yeah.

The trainer that she works with.

But I know, I know she said in podcasts I've listened to that SNC has become a really important part of making sure that she can continue being competitive. But yeah, I mean, being competitive at 52 in those sorts of races is just absolutely incredible.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, it's. It's not, it's not competing within age group, it's competing with other professionals of, you know, of every age. But she is at the top end of that range. And I think it's amazing to kind of hear. Hear how she, how she kind of. Yeah. Approaches it and tackles it and it's amazing. And she's obviously keeping going. And I didn't actually realize that she was commentating. I think she's commentating this year. Isn't she at the Kona Women's World Championships as well?

That's right. And I actually, I'd got a list of things. We didn't even get through half of the question prep I'd got. I wanted to talk to her about the Kona split, about the Iron man commentary. Yeah. But there was so much to talk about with regards to Ultraman in particular and the swimming background and how things have changed since then.

That.

Yeah, I think there was a load. Load to take away.

I think the lovely thing also that's that Laura and Didi both touched on it. You know, it's very true that people go out to Kona for the World Championships and only see one half of the island. And actually I'm just describing the story of the other side as well. I was almost, I know you had kind of taken a trip over there, but I was almost imagining the other side of the island and how we don't, you know, we don't use that in, as part of the World Championships. And so it was, I think it was just a really great kind of storytelling as well about, you know.

Yeah.

That over the course of those three days.

And it is amazing how much that island changes as you go around. I mean, I know you saw we, when we drove down from Harvey down to Kona on the back roads, you saw a very different side of it. But when you carry on round sort of past Harvey and around the, the other side of the coast again, it changes completely. It's, it is amazing. So, so, yeah, definitely. Ultraman World Championships is one for the, another one for the bucket list, the ever expanding bucket list.

Well, maybe she's, maybe she's somebody to get back on again and we can, we can have a talk about her commentating and things for the. And her thoughts on the World Championships as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I agree, I agree. Right, let's wrap this up. But I'm sure everybody has taken loads from the, the interview with Deedee and in the meantime, good luck with your training and for everybody else, keep on training. And remember, this podcast was sponsored by 33 fuel, so rethink your sports nutrition with 33 fuel award winning natural sports nutrition for your performance, health and a Fitter Future. It's the 33 Fuel Fuel Osophy. Get yours@33fuel.com and if you use the discount code Tribeathlon or the link in the show notes, you'll get a discount at the checkout. If you enjoyed this podcast, please do review it and share it because it helps other people find what we think is real valuable learning lessons from amazing athletes. So please do that. You can also find the whole back catalogue@tribathlon.com and you can also find out about the Tribeathlon app which helps people find events, find people to train with and enjoy their events through their tribe. So check out tribathlon.com.

Sam.