Michelle Akers: Chapter 19 - Maintaining Your Balance

So ant about that goal, the last second goal, that header goal, that was great. But you know, I like practice that a million times. So it would have been. I would have just like kept running out of the stadium if I missed that because, you know, I knew how to do that already. The second goal, Higgins, first of all, those balls she was always giving us, I mean, how could you not do good with, with those kinds of passes? And this pass, it was like this lofty ball and it was. And it like went in between their sweeper and it was like bounced. And then she was. I saw her waiting for it. Well, at halftime I had already decided I was going to be a heat seeking missile on for every ball. Okay. And I. That was just that and I just was like after it and he hesitated and I just like, was.

You know, was. There was no foul at all. Could have been maybe a little one and he fell, went off to the side and I had the ball and then it was 1v1. So the keeper came rushing out and I touched it long to the left.

At kind of not a good angle. So the goal was open and I could have shot it lefty. But in my mind from all of that training, I had done, like on scoring angles with the ball running away from the goal.

I saw like 18 versions of each surface that I could use to kick that ball in. And the one, the left footed version was it, the ball's running away from the goal and if I hit it with my left foot, it could, it could, you know, go to the side or into the side netting and I'm pigeon toed, so it's impossible to do inside of the foot at that angle. So I knew my body, so that's why I touched it back and I was like, I made the angle wider and then I just passed it in.

You're listening to the Vision of a Champion podcast with Anson Dorrance, eight time coach of the year, 22 time national champion coach of the 1991 Women's World cup, team Hall of Famer, leader and mentor to so many in the soccer community. On this podcast, Anson brings on players and coaches to discuss what it means to be a champion. The drive, the passion, the desire, and yes, the stories.

Here's your host, Voice of the North Carolina Courage and North Carolina FC Dean Linke, Foreign.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to yet another episode of the Vision of a Champion podcast. I'm your host, Dean Linke, longtime soccer broadcaster. Today we are honored to have Michelle Akers, who is arguably the best all around female Player to ever play the game. Michelle could do it all. She could score, defend, and had a unique air game that still ranks as the best header of the ball ever. In women's soccer, she helped the women's national team to win the 1991, 1999 World Cups and the 1996 Olympics. At the 1991 World cup in China, Michelle won the FIFA Golden Boot award as the top scorer with 10 goals. Michelle and Anson go way back to the U.S. national team in 1985, when Michelle made her first appearance on the team. I was a young U.S. soccer press officer during her tenure, and when anyone asked me on the rotary speaker circuit who was the greatest US Player, I was around, men or women, I answer the same way every time. The great Michelle Akers. And today we get to witness two legends of the game, Michelle Akers and Anson Dorrance, talk about Chapter 19, called Maintaining your balance. Michelle, it's great to be back with you. Welcome to the vision of a champion podcast.

So happy to be here with you guys, I can't tell you. All right.

And Anson, this is, I know, a thrill for you as well because I know you've got great stories about Michelle Akers, who she is and what makes her great. So let's get going. Anson, you fired up with Michelle Akers?

Absolutely. I mean, as she knows, I absolutely love coaching her. It was just so extraordinary to have this absolutely amazing athlete on my roster. And obviously she's a pioneer because in 85, I wasn't coaching the team. So she was actually on the national team before I was. She played with Mike Ryan, and that was our first adventure into the international game, and she was on that first roster. So she goes back to the absolute beginning of the national team, and I joined her a year later, and it was an absolute privilege coaching her until I retired in 94. And yes, your description of her, the way I describe her is she was a player without a weakness. There's not another player since Michelle that is a player without a weakness. She could do absolutely everything. Yes, I think she would be considered probably the greatest header in the history of the game, but she could score with her right foot, she could score with her left foot, she could run by you with pace. She could basically deceptively screw you into the ground with her creativity. And, yep, she was a vicious tackler when she needed to be. She started out as a playmaking midfielder, so she had incredible vision. I was the one that asked her to play the nine because I saw her potential to score goal after goal after goal. But your description, Dean, was spot on. And I just absolutely love coaching her. I still consider her a close friend, and I have huge respect for what she's done for the women's game. And so, Michelle, thank you for jumping onto our podcast.

Ants. Of course. Right.

And look, I just want to say.

You can't be, you know, you can't get to your greatness. You can't get to be your best without people around you or people pointing out what. How they see you and kind of the vision that they see. Because without it, you know, your perspective, at least my perspective was narrow.

And so when Anson said, mish boy calls me Mish, Mish, if you. I see this about you for this team, and it made me, like, consider maybe, yeah, you know, some things I thought, hell, no. And then some things I thought, yes, I want to do that. How do I do that? And so then it was a matter of Anton's kind of defining the vision and compromising, helping me compromise, but also helping me shore up inadequacies and learn new things, grow as a player and take on new roles that I never would have done. So that to me, Anson's vision to me, but also that his insightfulness and how he, like.

Pours that motivation or vision into you so you are motivated to walk away and own everything about it and then come back more and more complete every time you are on that team. That's what kind of drove me at as a player like that, like his vision. And then that became mine, and then it was the vision for our team that became ours. And then each of us were like, yes, you know, frothing at the mouth when we are alone in our own environment to be the best that we could. So anyway, it's, you know, yeah, it is an individual effort, but it's also, you know, a lot of individual efforts. And for me, Anson was one of those that really kind of changed the game for me.

As we both know, not enough people saw it, but winning that 1991 World cup was really incredible. And obviously in 1999, everybody did see it, and you got your just due. But let's go back to that time and have each of you tell a story about the other. We'll start with you, Anson, talking about Michelle at the 1991 World cup or leading up to it or her impact on that team winning that first ever World Cup.

Well, obviously, no one knew what was going to go on during this first World Cup. We certainly were excited that we were having one. We didn't know what the rest of the world was going to look like. We were kind of excited, but, you know, obviously we felt we could win it. One thing I really loved about this team that Michelle played on is I actually asked him a question before that World cup, do you want to go in as sort of an underdog? Because the American culture and football is an underdog culture. We hadn't dominated the game with either gender. So do you want to go in as this underdog that sort of defeats the world, or do you want to go in as this, just this velociraptor and sort of stand there like Godzilla and just destroy everyone? And of course, Dean, you know, my personality, but Michelle's was exactly the same. So we didn't go in there, you know, on cat's feet and sort of sneak into this event. We went in with the idea we are going to just destroy everyone. And so Michelle's description of the vision that we established for ourselves is absolutely spot on. We went in there to demonstrate to the world that we were going to be world champions right out of the gate. And it was so exciting for us because obviously there are all kinds of critics out there that told us, well, the United States had never been in a World Cup. And I remember Hubert Vogelsinger, for those people that are my age, was so critical of us, saying, oh, no, no, the United States women don't know what getting into this is a different event. And these are people that motivated me. I mean, gosh. And Michelle is motivated the same way. I mean, tell either one of us that we're not going to do something, and holy cow, are we going to absolutely prove you wrong. So I love the mentality that we went into this event with, and I also love Michelle's mentality in this event, because, holy cow, did she score goal after goal after goal after goal. I mean, of the spectacular level. And then, of course, in the World Final, and I have to admit this, because I want to genuflect to the Norwegians, who actually had the run of play in that final. I would say they had 55% of the game. We had 45%, but they didn't have Michelle Akers. And Shannon Higgins served a great ball in the air, and Michelle Akers probably beat the second best header of the ball at the time to finish the first goal for the U.S. obviously, they got back in the game and. And then Higgins sent another ball through. And I can remember this. I will remember this for the rest of my life. There's a sort of a 5050 ball between Miche and the. And the goalkeeper. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, this is our chance. And sure enough, Michelle dribbles the goalkeeper. She's got this open net, but it's on her left foot. And I'm thinking, shoot it, shoot it, shoot it. Because I didn't want her to be closed down before she got the shot off. And then she calmly ran around her left leg, I'll never forget this, and pushed it into the back of the net with the inside of her right foot. And I'm in full panic mode, thinking, you know, she's taking too long to finish this. And then, of course, the rest was history. That was the two goals that helped us win that world championship. And obviously, the margin was certainly a collection of wonderful players in all positions, but in that game, it was two incredible goals assisted by Higgins. But the goals were scored by this woman that we're interviewing right now. And in that event, by the way, there was no balance. I mean, we're talking about a chapter of maintaining your balance, but heck, I think it was game, two days off game, two days off game. Are you kidding me? And we high pressed, but I was so proud of us walking out of that, you know, dominating the world's game. And obviously we have the catalyst that scored 10 goals in that event. So again, I'll let Michelle look at her version of this, but that's the way I look at it.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm laughing so hard because about 50 different memories come in from that entire tournament, right? Anson. Oh, my gosh.

So for me, that. That World cup started, like, for me, at least a year before. A year and a half, two years, because Anson took me. I loved center mid. I'm a playmaker. I am being the definition and role of a playmaker is what I. Is who I am off the field. So I loved playing, playmaking. Okay. And for him, Mish, I want you to play striker. I was like, you know, no, I don't like. I don't like Stryker. I don't want to play back the goal. I don't want to take people on 1v1. That. That's not my personality. That's totally uncomfortable, and I don't like it. So there was some convincing there, although he may have not known, because whenever Anson's like, I want you to do this, you're always like, yes, I would be happy to. Right. So it was really.

A mental, like, struggle for me to embrace that and figure out how do I deal with this challenge Right, Because I want to be the best for my team. But also the other thing is, if Anson says this is the best role for me for this team, I want to accomplish that. I want to be that.

Because the opportunity there for me, I know, will open up even wider doors for my development and growth as a player and a person. So I said, okay, well, crap, how am I going to do this? Because there's nowhere place to play. I was playing with semi pro men's teams, going to tryouts just to train and playing with the college guys just to train. So what am I going to do? So it landed in my lap. I went and played professionally in Sweden, in Stockholm, on this team called Tirasu, which I'm totally butchering their name. And they made fun of me all the time on how I said it. But I played for this D2 team who was wanting to be.

Go to D1, and.

They wanted me to be their go to game changer, game winner, player. And that's the exact player Anson was asking me to be. So I was like, okay, this is perfect. So I went there. I mean, they could have been ax murderers. I didn't even know what I was walking into. So. But it ended up the coach was the Swedish women's national team coach, Gunilla Paykel, and their assistant coach was Marika, who was the head coach for their youth national team. Those were my coaches. And I lived in this castle, the slot. It's called this castle, the nicest people. And it was the best environment because I had to every single game, win the game. So how do we. How I had to figure out, because Swedes, at least at that time, are more pass the ball, pass the ball, which was me, okay? So I had to be different. And so Gunilla was always like, be like Michel, score the goals, you know, take the shot, don't pass it. I was like, but Gunilla, that's not me. I'm trying to be this other person. So this whole season I put myself on purpose in the most awful conditions for me personally. But as a player, it was the best because that's the role I needed to learn to excel at. So how do you play? How do you score goals when you have. You're marked by three players everywhere you go? How do you know? How do you. Is all of these. The mentality it takes, the positioning, the strategy, everything. Okay, So I came away from that after a year in Sweden and then walked into our World cup. And that's why I scored so many goals. That's part of it, because I played that year in Sweden on this team that wasn't good enough to win unless I made it happen. And then on top of that.

I took into account, okay, my shooting sucks. I suck at shooting. I can smash the ball and it looks really awesome as it goes over the goal and super powerful. But it's, you know, I'm not a goal scorer, so I had to redefine what I thought a goal scorer was. And, and by watching these, all these different professional men's players and seeing it's really a refined, strategic process.

And it's covering, you're learning all the angles in the box. So in that 18 yard box.

I would make my own training sessions and learn how to score goals. You know, top of the box, middle, top of the box, three feet over top of the box, five feet, you know, and with every kind of ball you can imagine on the ground, dead ball coming at me, coming behind me, bouncing in the air. So I did every kind of ball you can imagine at every speed, with no defenders, with one defender, with two defenders, with a goalkeeper, with that. So it was like, you know, a systematic development of goal scoring. So that was my process, stepping on to the field for the USA in that 91 World Cup. And it started because Anson said, mish, why don't you, I want you to play striker, okay? And me wanting to throw up at the thought of it. So when we went there, look, my team.

Those are the people I would want to be around when, you know, everything is hitting the fan because they are tough.

We may have not been the best.

Tactically or even skillfully, but we were going to win based on our mentality that no one would outwork us, we would never give up. And if they were better than us, then we work to enhance or strengthen the areas of our game that we were better than them. And we put them under pressure because of that and they couldn't handle that. So that was, you know, Anson's brilliant coaching. And it was these players that we were and made up this amazing, like, tough ass team, right? So we won because of that mentality and because of the vision that Anton planted. And then we owned and grew.

So ant about that goal, the last second goal, that header goal, that was great. But you know, I like practice that a million times. So it would have been. I would have just like kept running out of the stadium if I missed that, because, you know, I knew how to do that already. The second goal, Higgins, first of all, those balls she was always giving us, I mean, how could you not do good with those kinds of passes. And this pass, it was like this lofty ball and it was. And it like it went in between their sweeper and it was like bounced. And then she was. I saw her waiting for it. Well, at halftime I had already decided I was going to be a heat seeking missile on for every ball. Okay. And that was just that and I just was like after it and he hesitated and I just like was, you know, was. There was no foul at all. Could have been maybe a little one. And he fell, went off to the side and I had the ball and then it was 1v1. So the keeper came rushing out and I touched it long to the left.

That kind of not a good angle. So the goal was open and I could have shot it lefty. But in my mind from all of that training I had done like on, on scoring angles with the ball running away from the goal.

I saw like 18 versions of each surface that I could use to kick that ball in. And the one, the left footed version was it the ball is running away from the goal and if I hit it with my left foot, it could go to the side or into the side netting and I'm pigeon toed, so it's impossible to do inside of the foot at that angle. So I knew my body, so that's why I touched it back and I was like, I made the angle wider and then I just passed it in.

Mish, I love this. I absolutely love this because now I'm going to sleep at night. You finally shared with me why you did that. And now this is great because you're absolutely right. That was the most secure surface to roll it right into the middle of the goal because you're absolutely right. And you know what? There are so many things I loved about your evolution as a player. But also coming into that event, one of the things, of course, Robbie Stahl was a shooting coach. The guy you were dating, and in these soccer camps in front of four to 500 kids, he would have you actually shooting demo under huge pressure with all these people watching. So you came into the events with us with all of this constant shooting. I mean, you were one of these people that checked the repetition box and I had never heard the Sweden story. So I appreciate that. But the thing I absolutely love is when you came in, you became such a lethal finisher. And a part of that as well was you working constantly on your strike with everything, with all services, as you're saying, but also in front of four to 500 campers. And so for you, this was also critical because you were so good under pressure to finish 10 goals in a World Cup. I mean, Dean, do the research. Is there anyone else that scored that many in a World Cup? My guess is no. So, anyway, from that perspective, it's extraordinary. But let me share this with you, Mish. First of all, thank you for the way you expressed it. You called a lot of these things. You were a heat seeking missile. I love it. You're quoting me my favorite expression.

It is.

Yeah, I say that all the time. I still say it. I say it to girls that are heading the ball. You gotta be a heat seeking missile. You gotta see where that ball is going and get up there and just finish it. So basically, I love this because you're bringing back fun memories. But also, this is the language I still use. So I'm glad it worked with you. I'm hoping it's working with the kids I'm training now. But let me throw in something else, and I think Dean will appreciate this. The chapter we're reviewing is maintaining your balance. And the thing I absolutely loved about coaching you is I would have to invent things for you in the player conferences because you were so aggressive in trying to get to your potential. If I wasn't critical of you in a player conference. By the way, Mish, it was very difficult to be critical of you in a player conference because by the time that World cup rolled around, I couldn't see too many weaknesses. But you wanted me to invent crap for you to basically perfect. And I said, all right, all right, all right. Because I had a conference with you, and I don't think you were satisfied that I had been critical enough. And you said, no, Anson, I want more. I want more. What do I need to work? And I said, okay. I invented this thing called tactical agility. Tactical agility is we're winning 5, 0. There's, like, 20 seconds left in the game, and the ball is about to roll out of bounds, but you have decided to save it. So you go in there like a kamikaze.

Oh, yeah, Anson.

Exactly right. So I was saying, no, I want you to keep your body in one piece for the next game. So I invented some stuff just so you could work on something just to keep yourself alive. So this is maintaining balance. I. I was trying to figure out ways for you to keep your body in one piece. And so now what Dean and I would love for you to share is your, I guess, your career of trying to recover from all of the different injuries and fatigue and all these different things, because I think you were so incredibly committed and aggressive and risk taking, you paid a price. And so think about what advice you would give to these young kids that have your mentality where you're going to take every risk, you're going to kill yourself to win everything, including every single one v one and every camp you went to. So now think of a way for you to have extended your career. So let's talk about that, because this is a chapter about maintaining your balance. So review that, because I don't think everyone knows. They know the history of Michelle and her success, but tell them the battles that you fought with all the different issues.

Here's the thing, though. When I saw that this was the balance chapter and you asked me to be on it, I was like, I am the wrong person for this chapter. Okay, what in the world is Anson thinking? So, because I really.

I mean, you. It's still a. It's still.

Prominent message, you know, give your all to be your best all the time. You know, you're coached, you're encouraged, you're across the board, on and off the field to give your all so you can be your best. And.

To me, that meant, you know, trying my hardest every single time. But. And so I did. However.

There'S being your best and trying your hardest. There's different slices of that pie of who you are and the strategy to be your best. So just giving your all, in part becomes give your all.

In each area that will help you, that nurtures each side to be your best. So what I learned about giving your all, it had to be, for me, expanded into the different areas. And part of that is.

Rest.

Part of that is.

We'Re winning 12 0. And really, Michelle, you're like jumping and smashing into people, trying to win this ball that's going to go out for a corner kick. That's your, you know, think about it. How does that work? And then you injure yourself and then you're out. So trying my best to win that ball isn't being my best at being smart. So this is. So this is what I learned, that being my best is. Is. It is actually being balanced. But I don't hear the, the other. The contradictory thing is, I think to be your best, you're. You're not going to be balanced. But. But it has to. But, but you have to give your all at making up for the kind of extreme focus or extreme effort given. That's my cat. My extreme effort given by implementing a more balanced.

Overall approach and Practicalness to what your body can withstand, what you expect of yourself, what you can give without falling apart, and what your goals are as a player, both short term and long term. So that for me is the balance part and the tactical agility. Oh my gosh, anson. So that one, you know, I'm 55. I might have just got that last year, last couple years. Okay. Because it goes against my nature.

So. But it's so important. And I think, you know, it applies to coaches as well and how they're developing their players and what they're expecting of their players. And I think coaches have more of an opportunity to be balanced or provide a thought out in advance, advanced, balanced approach to teaching their players this, but also providing it for them throughout the season and throughout the time they're spending with them. But I think it's such a good.

Lesson, like for me, because it's not about everything, just, you know, crashing into people, giving your best and running your fastest and doing a million miles of fitness and lifting a thousand weights. That's not it. That's not it. So the myth needs to be busted on that one.

Hey everyone, we're going to take a quick break here to tell you about our sponsor, soccer.com Anson has been coaching for 44 years and it seems like soccer.com has been around nearly that long as well. It's pretty close as the soccer.com business has been family run and based in Hillsborough, North Carolina since 1984. If you're a player or a coach who needs soccer shoes, equipment, gear, whatever it may be, do what the pros do. Head on over to soccer.com I hope you've been enjoying the podcast and I wanted to make you aware that in Anson just released a new audiobook version of his hardcover book, the Vision of a Champion. Now you can listen to the book narrated by Anson Dorrance and switch back to the free podcast to hear the stars of the women's game discuss each chapter. The Vision of a Champion audiobook is available on Apple Books, Amazon's, Audible, Google Play, or wherever you get your audiobooks. To find it, simply search the Vision of a Champion audiobook. Now let's get back to the show I wanted. I think what Anson was digging into more is we remember all these great moments for you. Remember the triple edged sword in China and remember the Olympics. But then in 1999, you were dealing with just incredible injury situations and fatigue. Beyond that, anybody will really totally understand. And I think what Anson was really diving into. Can you explain what you were going through in 99. Because those moments of seeing you, like, literally, I mean, so there's the empty gauge and then there's 100 layers below the empty gauge. And you played 100 layers below that empty gauge as if you were way ahead, the empty gauge. You kept on powering through. Explain what you were going through in 99, Michelle, because I still picture it, and granted, and Anson wasn't the coach anymore, but I know Anson is thinking about it as well, aren't chancing?

Absolutely. I mean, what makes you incredibly unique, and you're explaining it very well, by the way, Michelle, because, yes, in practice, you've got to go 100 miles an hour. You've got to get to your potential, you've got to compete. You've got to have the mentality to basically compete in everything, because I think you can't develop in a recreational environment. It's all about competitive excellence. But off the field, nine hours sleep, eating properly, having other aspects of your life that regenerate you, and you were such a comet, you were burning yourself out. And I think there's a point where you've got to figure out a way. And we as coaches, you're absolutely right, we have to figure out a way to make sure our players have a balance in their lives while they're still competing 100%. Because you don't want to come into practice, you know, deciding to give 50%. No, you've always got to, you know, compete at the highest level to develop mentality, etc. But by the same token, we've got to figure out a way to help our players get to their potential by having them recover from injuries, by giving them rest, by supporting them by. And not just supporting them with.

Coaching ideas, but supporting them socially so they know they're cared about, that people do support them and care about them. And I think you were these kids that we relied on so much that you took it to heart and then to some extent, you were exhausted in 99. And I think that's the rest of us basically relying on you. So talk about that. Talk about the exhaustion.

Well, okay, so that's kind of a. I was first of all dealing with a lot of injuries because I was a targeted player. And so those injuries, you know.

Knee surgeries, shoulder surgeries, you know, head surgeries.

So.

Being such a targeted player, there is a huge price for that and that, you know, broken body. But then. So the other part of my. But my personality is, look, oh, my gosh, if.

I. It's my job just to try so if I like to try, you know, when. So what if my knee is hurt and I can't kick with the inside of my foot? I can kick with the outside of my foot or I can play all lefty. How good can I be doing that? And I could do. I could do it. I could still be a goal scorer. I could still be effective. And so I kind of liked that challenge.

So that part, it didn't bother me. It was just like, I just. It was just an injury. Okay? So it didn't bother me. And I could still play effectively and with an impact and, you know, off the field, for me, when I was away from the game, I had. I love, Like, I. I was not about soccer. In fact, I trained and worked really hard and.

Probably did more than I should have, but I, you know, in fact, my team would get mad at me. Like, leading up to 96, the Olympics, we all trained in Orlando, Florida. And I had horses. I wanted to go horseback ride. I wanted to go to the movies. I didn't want to see them all the time. I felt I saw them six hours a day. And they me, why do we need to be doing more? So I had a lot of fulfillment off the field and didn't need that.

So I. So for that part, what happened was, for me, I was. I got an autoimmune.

System illness condition, and that was what just tanked me out. Okay, so should I have kept playing, you know, in this balanced chapter?

And then I thought, well, maybe they're having me on because I am serving as a bad example, which is fine with me for the balance chapter.

So maybe I. Yeah. If looking at it in a balanced perspective, should I have, you know. Yes. I was exhausted. Was I mentally exhausted? No. Was I emotionally exhausted? No. Was my body? Yes. Yeah.

But I wanted to try. And so, you know, I also have this thing in me. And, you know, to just add to that.

That there's two things. One is, you know, they're.

You know, when people have this dream about what they, you know, that's inside them that they really have no control over. So the soccer thing, so many people told me, yeah, that's not a thing. That's not a thing. My parents told me that's not a thing, Michelle. And I was told that my whole life, and yet it's a thing. Okay? So it was there before any of this was here. Okay? So.

To me, that's it. That's divine. Like, that's put in you from something bigger than just a little girl, like wanting to Play soccer, you know, and win a gold medal. That's. It's bigger than that. So that is the thing I was tapping into, and that's the only. That's the only reason. Well, and that I loved playing for my teammates. Like, I love supporting. I look at myself as just a supporting cast member, by the way. Like, my job is to make everyone be their best, and I love that. Like, that's the thing. That was really exciting for me, too. And so by reaching my potential, I make everyone better around me. And to see that is my joy. So I. So while this was going on in 99, and, you know, my dad is going, God help me, I'm watching her do this all the time. And this is horrible. But for me, it was horrible and hard, but it was also, who am I, right? You know, who am I in this challenging situation?

You know, this has been in me since I was born, and to not follow through with it would have been worse than playing under hard circumstances.

No, Mish, I'm with you 100%. Yeah. I love it. And let me jump in, because this is the way I saw you, because I'll tell you, I always talk to my players about this. You can't play through injury, but pain is manageable. And it's incredible how many players, if they feel pain. If they feel pain, they just back off. And obviously, pain can indicate injury, but pain is also something. If you're not injuring yourself, you can play through. And you are an incredible example of that. My admiration for you because of that is off the charts, and so is any player that's ever played with you, but any coach has ever coached you. And so I think you're an incredible example of that. It's sort of interesting the way you gathered some of the injuries, because obviously you were a target. But one of the most comical shoulder injuries I've ever heard of is mish is running down, slapping the hands of all these fans coming out of a stadium. And all of a sudden, one of the fans decided to grab your hand to shake it, and you were running along, and all of a sudden, he pulls your shoulder out of its socket.

Because he wouldn't let my feet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, one of your worst injuries wasn't even on the field. It was you basically slapping the hands of all the fans as you're running by them to sprint into the locker room. And all of a sudden, this one excited fan grabs your hand, and you go jerking back because he's just yanked your shoulder out of its socket. And so talk about that injury. Talk. Obviously you were targeted in every game, but talk about that injury.

Yeah. Things you can't. Like there's no tactical agility about that. Ants. Right.

So I, yeah, that was in the 9. 9 World Cup. We, I think it was the, the last game in that first round and Tony had sat some of us to rest for the next match, the quarterfinal. And so I was one of those sitting. I watched, I didn't play. And then it was after the game, we were running around the stadium, high five, thanks to the fans. And I was running past and the guy just grabbed, like, he grabbed me and literally I was horizontal in the air and flunk, you know, fell on the ground and my shoulder was dislocated. Okay. So I was like, what the hell? And I, if I, you know, if I could, if my arm was laying there on the field on the ground, I would have picked it up and beat him with it because I was so mad. And so I was like, I cannot believe this. This happened. I was, I, I couldn't believe it. So I grabbed, you know, my shoulder, holding it together and I jogged back to our doctor. I was like, doc Adams, I dislocated my shoulder. And he's like, what? Like it was like, what? And so I had to tell him what happened. So it was just, it was devastating. It went back in on my way to the doctor. Like it kind of popped back in. And so it was kind of in a sublexed state the entire, the rest of that tournament. And if you watch the games, when I fell, I was always like holding my shoulder in and it was a nightmare. So I, you know, another thing to play with. I already was playing like a lot lefty because I had an MCL PCL thing from the 95 World cup where a player. I crashed into a player in midair and tore up my knee and had stitches. And that knee was a thing because of that game for a long time. So, you know, five. That shoulder is really why I ended up retiring when I did. Because after that 99 World Cup I had reconstruction done and it was like a. Literally a T rex arm that I would try to run and do, you know, pt. And I'd be running in the thing. My thing. The arm was just flying around hitting me in the face because I, it had nerve damage. It was all just that, that one incident. So that took two years of five surgeries to come back and have a functional non T Rex arm. So that thing, it still is, it still is a problem. But you Wouldn't know it because I, you know, you learn to work around it, but then you also work hard at kind of shoring up your weaknesses. So I guess, you know, part of being a balanced player or person is like figuring out, you know, okay, so that happened.

Who could foresee a guy grabbing my arm and dislocating my shoulder? And that happened. And okay, how, how do I reshuffle everything to make this kind of adjustment here? And so that, you know, that's just a thing I've had to do my, my entire life, as everyone does.

So, Anson, as a coach, how do you keep an eye on your players, especially like special ones with Michelle, to balance how they're doing physically, how they're.

How they're doing physically and emotionally?

Yeah. First of all, Michelle, he isn't implying you're a special one in the way you're interpreting it. The extraordinary ones. I will help Dean with his vocabulary.

No, I had a doctor say, michelle, you see your chart? It's like this big. These are for the special ones.

So then I was Dr. Palumbo. He was part of the team. Yeah. So I just got a flashback. I was laughing.

Yeah. No. So we're not going to call you the special one. We're going to call you especially since Mourinho considers himself the special one and he was just fired. So we're not going to call you the special one. We're going to call you the extraordinary one.

Oh, God.

And I want to share this because this is genuine. Yeah. What I think all of us have to do in the game, certainly those of us that coach, but also the extraordinary players that are pushing and pushing and pushing themselves, there does have to be a period where they can fully recover and get their body back together. But the thing I loved about listening to Michelle is, is she saying, and she's absolutely right. And we're sort of in this sort of gray area right now as we're training. Sort of a different culture where anytime a player has any kind of nick, they go into, you know, a three month recovery period. No, you don't have to, because there are ways you can adjust to an injury. And the way you described it was perfect. You had the mentality where if you did have an issue where you couldn't, say, hit an instep drive anymore, now the way you're going to solve it is you're going to learn to bend balls the outside of your foot to solve the problem. And so this is where I think we're entering this era in the way we're raising our children where any kind of nick becomes a three month recovery. And no, you can continue to play. And you are an incredible example of that. Because your standard never dropped. You would have a way to adjust because you're tough, because you can manage pain. And so this isn't the thing I'm talking about with maintaining your balance, because you did. You adjusted to every aspect. You adjusted to a positional change. For me, you adjusted to every single thing that was sent your way. And that mentality, I think, has made you absolutely extraordinary. So the things we're talking about in this chapter are to lead some balance off the field. And of course, the irony is you were running off the field, celebrating with the fans, and all of a sudden someone grabs your arm. And that part, you know, pulled your shoulder out. And that was the hardest thing for you to deal with. It wasn't someone spearing you on the field. It was some insane fan grabbing you and then, you know, tearing your shoulder out of its socket. But here's the thing that I want everyone to understand about this chapter in the vision of a champion. This chapter is for you to make sure you understand that your life has to have balance. And Michelle, your life did. Because I think your example of in the middle of that camp in Orlando where you guys were training constantly, you were doing video constantly, was to have a life outside it. You had a life outside it with your horses, you had a life outside it with other aspects of your life. And that's what's absolutely critical. So you've got to be able to find a place outside it. And for me, it's my home. If anyone visited me in my home. There is no evidence in this house that I'm a soccer coach. There is not one piece of evidence that I'm a soccer coach. On the walls are the paintings my mother painted. She was an extraordinary artist. Basically on the piano is Christ drawing this line in the sand when these people were stoning this woman. So if you look around, I'm surrounded by my family and those issues. And that's where we have to have some refuge. You've got to have refuge with family. You've got to have refuge with friends. Right now, when I'm speaking to my team and I meet with them informally three times a year, each player, I talk about connection, staying incredibly connected with the players on the roster. So I want deep connections. Right now on my campus is Tracy Bates daughter.

I'm dying for her to come to school here.

I would love for her to come to school here selfishly. Why? Because I will see Tracy, you know, one of my favorite human beings of all time. And you know Tracy because you played with her and that 91 World Cup. So a lot of what we're talking about in this chapter is that sort of balance. And Michelle, you did have it off the field. Your love of horses is extraordinary. Your compassion for something, you know, big in yourself like that is extraordinary. So for me, that's what this chapter is all about. And you were a great example of this. So never think we've brought you on because you're a bad example of this.

No, I'm happy to be the bad example.

So I was like, where am I fitting in?

No, no, no, no. You're. You're a great example. So not at all. So please know that.

Yeah. Ants. It's so true. Because what you're saying. Because players, you know, and it happens with, you know, a lot of different things. Like when you get involved with something and you love something to do something so much, right. It kind of be you. Your. You see it as you or your. It's your identity. So if that thing is removed, there is this, whoa, who. You know, who. Well, who am I? Where do. Where do I get my, you know, happiness? Where, you know.

I. There's.

There.

You forget that you are an actual separate identity. And soccer is just something you do and enjoy. So the important. Yeah, the important part is what happens, you know, who are you when it's removed? Or do you think that is all of you? And, you know, as a professional athlete and, you know.

Someone who has been at the top of the game. You know, what's so interesting is, like, when I was injured and I couldn't play soccer, I was devastated. Soccer was a lot of my time, and a lot of my friends were in the game. So if I was removed from the game, my structure, my support structure was gone. And I did struggle. Well, who am I without it? But because of the platform was so wide and my network was so wide for soccer, that's where everything was for me. So moving that. That's why I like what you're saying is it's important to have a view of yourself without.

In this instance, soccer, because you are bigger than the one thing and all of you has to be kind of going along the same path. And it all hat doesn't all have to necessarily fit, but you have to view who you are as this whole person. I so love that. I mean, I don't have. I never had one soccer thing in here. Like the trophies and the memorabilia and all that stuff to me is like, why am I even carrying that around? I don't. It doesn't matter. I mean, it's wonderful to have been appreciated and acknowledged. That is beautiful thing. But I don't need the thing there. I don't need that. And so not. I just have like, okay, art drawings, you know, people gave to me or my son drew or whatever things are around. It's the same. But that took a long time to develop too. I wish someone had talked to me in more depth and actually kept kind of like not kept me accountable about it, but.

Not necessarily enforced it, but like kind of asked me pointedly to.

Be accountable to myself, like kind of as a parent would for a kid about who. Who I am developing as and who. How I'm seeing myself as a person and what. Where are my other. Other parts of me besides the game and as a coach, you know, especially a college coach, you know, now these kids are around their teams and clubs, you know, 24 hours a day almost. It's non stop. So that. That part has to be really taken care of. Maybe. I mean, maybe the team like goes and, well, here's a tennis tournament together or something. I don't know.

Well, Mish, one thing that I will treasure absolutely forever was the jersey you gave me. And obviously it was framed. I absolutely love sits in the McCaskill Soccer center because I'm incredibly proud of it.

And the thing I'm most proud of in that jersey you gave me was the note you wrote me on the jersey. And so for me, it wasn't just that you were this incredible player. It's that you and I have a personal connection beyond the game. And what you wrote in the upper right hand corner of that jersey, that is now a part of the way I think of myself and my connection with you. That's what I treasure. I treasure our connection. And so for me, that's what I want us to cultivate beyond the game. I want us to have this balance. And the balance is, yeah, this game has brought us together and this game has caused us to respect each other. But there's got to be something beyond that. There's got to be a kind of love in there. And that's what I feel anytime I look at that jersey. And it's not just because it's the number 10 and acres is above the number 10. It's the note you wrote. And so for me, that's what connects us. And this is where when I'm talking to My players, I reference your jersey. This is what I want with each player, but this is what I want you guys to have with each other. Have a reason beyond the game for why you love this kid.

And one of the questions we ask in the connection meeting when we're talking about this is, do you love your teammates and do they love you? It's a critical question, because for me, that's critical. And the players that don't take that step to try to love their teammates, but also to be loved by them, I think are missing out on, I think, the greatest aspect of athletics. Because this sport brings us together, but it doesn't necessarily knit us. What knits us is how you answer that question. Do you love your teammates and do they love you? In other words, do you do things for your teammates above and beyond the call that demonstrates for them that you care about them? And it can be actually a part of the game, the way you double back to help them out defensively. It can be like Carla Word Noverbeck helping all of us take our bags up from the bus into the hotel in Guangzhou after We've flown for 18 hours, been on a train for another six, and now everyone's exhausted. We just want to fall into our hotel rooms and Carla is helping the equipment managers carry all of our bags up into our rooms. So this is the connection that I think sport can sort of extend to us. And I think that's, for me, what I absolutely love about all the people I know in this game, the ones I've coached, the ones I've played with, and these people I admire, like watching, you know, Rapinoe fight for social justice. I mean, I hardly know her. I just know her through a reputation. But watching, you know, what she does for my game and the women in our game for the extraordinary gay community, I loved her line about, you know, there's never been a championship without gays. In other words, you've never won a championship without a gay on your team. And of course, the classical population across our country doesn't even realize this. They don't understand, you know, the relationships we have with everyone in our roster and how we embrace everyone. We embrace the diversity, the racial diversity, the sexual orientation diversity, because, yeah, we all love each other. Because once the game begins, it doesn't really matter, you know, what your political affiliation is or your sexual orientation or anything else. Do you have the guts like Michelle does to win that head or against that Viking monstrous woman in the center back position for Norway? Do you have the composure to, after You've dribbled the goalkeeper in the World cup final to use the best finishing surface to roll the ball into the center of the net while your coach is having a heart attack on the bench because he wants you to shoot it as fast as possible. I mean, so all these different elements, and I think that's what I have come to love about our game, is my connection with you and the other people like you, because for me, it goes beyond the game.

Yeah, it's true. And, you know, too, it's. I, you know, like what people talk about, like, what makes, what made those teams so good, or why do those certain teams win.

So many times, consecutively, consistently, these dynasty kind of things. That's because I think the, you know, one of the magical ingredients is they care about each other. Like, there's actual that connection, and that is the thing that, you know, rises above that. There's this story about the Navy SEALs I was reading, and it talked about, you know, the guys going through the boot camp thing, and they're in the water, freezing water, and they measured, it was a scientific experiment. They measured their performances of GoT for the people who failed and they. And they didn't hear encouragement and they couldn't go on, and they quit to the ones who are in the same exact place. And they heard their guys went, come on, Joe, you can do it. You know, and then they were like, yes, like, the guy, you know, kind of becomes the Hulk, you know, it's like that extra is what makes the difference so many times. And so I think, you know, it's measurable, but also, you know, the connection that you make is long term and that it goes further, bigger, wider than just this activity you're. You're participating in. And I think that's also so, like, so crucial and so important, and it makes it, even the game, even more fun. Right? Because you're doing it with people you have a blast playing the game with. It's the best.

Great answer. And that's all part of maintaining your balance as well. Michelle Akers. I will say I went with this. I gave Anson a ton of credit because my first camp, you may not remember this, but it was in Santa Barbara with Anson, and he gave this speech about going out to practice. You're going to work so hard that your intestines are going to turn into diamonds. And I was like, wow, that's hard work. I definitely want to go out there and do that. And then I get to witness you strike a ball harder than a lot of the guys that were playing for Bora Milatinovic, who, by the way, Anson, Bora Milatinovich. This is a true story, actually wanted Michelle Akers to come train with the men's team. I'm not kidding you. I don't know if you knew that Michelle or not, but yeah, he wanted you to come train with the team. Michelle Akers, you are an inspiration to all of us. You created, I think it's fair to say, Anson, the love of the game for so many people, and even people like me who couldn't play the game, you created the love of the game. I think that's how I end it, Anson, because Michelle Akers did so much for all of us to love the game.

I think that's a great statement. Dean and Mitch, this is the way we think of you. You've been an inspiration for all of us about where the women's game can go. And I'm asked this question all the time, and I will finish with this. They all say, well, if you take, you know, the 91 team and those players back then, and you put them, inject them into the modern culture of the game.

What would happen? And here's what I tell everyone. The best players in 91 would still be the best players today. Now, has the game evolved? Yep, the game has evolved. It's a higher level game now because the development platforms at all levels, from youth to professional, is at a much higher level. So the game has advanced. But the truly great players like Michelle, like Heinrichs, like Karen Jennings, those players even today would be the superstars today. And I have no issue defending that. And of course, they try to trap me by saying, what about your 91 team? You know, if you were to have your 91 team play against, you know, the 2019 world champions, who would win? I would say if those 91ers were training and playing in this era, I still think they would kick everyone's ass in because the truly great ones, their legacies, I'm never going to let them die. So if you think you're going to paint me into a corner by deserting those warriors that I was so proud of that put the United States on the map, I never will. And the one we're chatting with today is one of the ones that will be on that pedestal forever.

You're so good. I could listen to you talk. I mean, even though that was some, you know, talking about my teams and me, and I could still listen to you talk for hours because it's so, like, right now, guess what? I'm going to do next? Oh, I'm. I'm going to be a heat seeking missile out in my barn cleaning up horse manure. That's what I'm doing. I'm putting my olympic gold medal skill and intensity towards that. Next.

Do you mind if I jump in real quick, Mish? You know, my daughter's playing with a bad ankle right now. And, and so for me listening to the show, I'm like, you know what? Brianna's gonna get this show and she's gonna understand how to win when she has pain. And she says, well, what do I do with my bad ankle? I said, well, you know, I was a soccer player. Ankles are. Ankles. Ankles hurt. I said, but you can play with a, with a bad ankle. And I said, as long as it's not broke, you can play with it. And so what I took away from this was this is a show I'm going to give to Brianna as soon as I can because we've got a national championship to win, and sometimes you have to win it and you're not going to be perfect. And especially with today's players, right? Today's players are trained. If something goes wrong, you stop. And.

What we need to train the player is if something is manageable and it's not going to hurt your long term health, you go. And so thank you for that because that's something I'm sharing with Brianna is, you know, it's going to be painful at times, it's going to hurt. But if the goal is bigger than the pain and the reward is bigger than the pain, then you got to go. And. And so I'm really excited about that chapter because I, you know, hearing you talk about the 99 World Cup, I was there. I was part of the new, the New York, I mean, New Jersey, where you started that event. I was on that whole Olympic committee and that was my stadium. And we were part of the folks that helped fill that stadium up. And I remember that world cup and what you guys did to win it. And, you know, so I'm thinking about my daughter to 20, 21, and I'm saying, you got to figure it out, how to work through this and how not only to work it, but how to win with it. And so thank you.

I love it. That's part of the balance as well. Michelle Akers, a true honor. Thank you so much for being with.

Us now, you guys, thanks for having me. It's the best time. I appreciate it.

That's Michelle Akers talking about maintaining your balance on the vision of a Champion Podcast. If you like this show, one way you can support our work is to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review as well. The show was edited and produced by Creative Allies. If you're looking for information on full service podcast production, head over to creativeallies.com for the great Michelle Akers and Ants Endurance. I'm Dean Linke and we'll see you next time on the Vision of a Champion Podcast.

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