I Hate Dating” | Mandii B on Love, Sex & No Holes Barred

because you can juggle multiple friends, you can juggle multiple siblings, you can juggle multiple parents. Like, it's the same fucking concept. We put these like unrealistic expectations on romantic partnership.

I agree. Yeah.

We expect them to show up as nonhuman and to have everything right and know everything that I want and please me in everything. And oh my God, like, we, we have these expectations of human beings that aren't realistic. You saying you can't juggle multiple people is not true. You juggle multiple jobs, you juggle multiple everything. Else in your life, but when it comes to a person you like, you can't? That, that realistically doesn't make sense.

Listen, like I always say, block out the noise, focus on what's real, stay with what matters. This is where grind meets growth. This is where stories break silence and build legacy. This is Talk Less. Talk less, do more. Hey guys, welcome back to Talk Less Show, and I see y'all are not subscribing. So first thing first, I need y'all to go and hit a subscribe button, like button, comment, share, and let us know what you think. But today I wanna do an introduction of my amazing guest who I wanted to have on for so long, and I finally, we got to sit together. So let me read you an introduction of this amazing, amazing, beautiful lady. Today's guest is someone who doesn't just talk about the things most people whisper. She screams them from a rooftop with wit, honesty, and unapologetic confidence. She's an Atlanta-based creator now, former New York-based creator.

I don't be telling people that, but yeah. Okay, okay. No, no, you can still—

I'm just like, she's a New York City-based creator who is currently visiting Atlanta, a voice for women's empowerment, sexual liberation, and body positivity. She pushes boundaries so hard that taboo checks its privilege at the door. She co-hosts one of the most fearless relationship podcasts out there, Decisions Decisions, and she also hosts a couple more podcasts. We're gonna get into all of that.

Yes.

Where is nothing off limits, nothing is too messy, and nothing is too real. She's also a New York Times bestselling author of No Holes Barred, and, um, a book that reads less like a memoir and more like the raw truth women feel but afraid to own. She says what she means, she lives what she teaches, and dares women to show up fully for themselves without apology. Please welcome to Talk Less Show, Mindy B.

I feel like my husband Chat wrote that, which I love.

It absolutely did.

I love ChatGPT. I love it. But that was cute. It did. It did a good one. I like this.

Listen, girl, I put the bio from the— from your production company. I put everything together. I put your Instagram. I also— I gave the notes of the book.

I love it. No, that was great.

I love it.

I'm gonna need to know that prompt because I'm going to give everybody that introduction for me.

I got you.

And no, I like that.

I— first of all, guys, I really was adding these notes.

Like the note tabs in the book is so awesome to see.

Zoom it in because I don't play. I have already made a mistake of not reading a book before having a guest on.

Okay.

And so then I said, I will never do that again. I will not have you on unless I read the book.

What was the mistake? What did you feel like?

So, and we'll, I'll ask you the question after. But the mistake was He had such a crazy childhood history that I had no idea about that could have changed the entire trajectory of the interview.

Of the interview.

And if I have known that that was his past, and mind you, it was not in the main book. The part where he talked about his past was in the acknowledgments section.

Oh, wow.

So, and he intentionally did that. It was a very short book, like 50 or like 80 pages, very short. And when I read it, I literally had tears in my eyes. It was Josh Powell. And I apologize, Josh, for not reading your book. And I already told him that I literally called him once I read the book and I called him in tears and I was like, Josh, why you did not tell me? It was like, because he had a crazy history of abuse.

Okay.

Sexual abuse as a child. He was R-word at 9 years old. He was sold to— basically, he was forced to have sex with older women from 9 to 14 every single day.

Oh, wow.

And by his family members.

Oh wow.

And if I have known that, the conversation just would have been way different. Yeah, because he has 7 kids, 4 baby mamas, you know, different races. There's like a— I mean, he's a former NBA player, so there's a lot that goes into it.

I knew the name sounded familiar.

Okay, but that's— I wish I read that book.

Oh wow. Okay, okay. Well, but before, before we get into the conversation, you making me want to read the book.

Uh, I promise you, it's a great book. There we go. Perfect. So before we get into the conversation, every guest that comes on my show, because it's a talk less show, okay, I'm going to ask you, if there's one thing you can talk less about, what would it be?

Myself. Why? Because, oh my God, I overshare. I got to stop talking. I got to stop telling the world about me. Goddamn it. No. Yeah, if I could talk less, it would definitely be about me. If I could. Mm-hmm. I won't because that's how I make money. And that's like my platform. And that's why I built the audience I have. But I wish I wasn't such an over goddamn sharer, honestly.

So what would you do more of?

Like, what would I talk more of?

No, do more. If you talk less about yourself, what would you do more of? Because it's talk less, do more. So what do we—

what would I do more of? Sleep.

I love that.

Sleep. That's been like— it's funny because like, that's been like my thing. By the way, all my friends are gonna fucking— if they hear this or see this, they're gonna be like, bitch, you're a napper, you love to nap. I do also try to make sure I get my 8 hours of sleep a night as well. Um, but for me, I think like I work so hard and I do miss out on sleep, uh, during stints of hard work or just busy, like a busy time that like, yeah, I would sleep a lot more. I just, I'd be like in a sleep. I love a good little sleep and my dreams I be wanting to stay in some of my dreams. I don't know how these— the right people be ending up in my dreams and we be having fun in my dreams. I don't know what part of the universe or the metaverse that these dreams are taking place, but I be having— I could fly in my dreams.

Wait, so do you— do things actually manifest in real life from your dreams?

No, no, no. Things manifest from my mouth, which is why I'm going to constantly keep doing that. I'm never going to— I actually— maybe I should do more of that. I should manifest more because literally whatever I say literally comes to fruition. And it's almost scary on some sorcery type of, you know, ordeal. But no, I would say I would manifest more actually than sleep. There we go. I would do more manifesting.

Yeah, because I think we truly forget that that's the important part.

Yeah.

Especially creatives. We have to— we have to be delusional.

You have to believe. Yeah, you have to be delusional and, and kind of just put out into the universe what you want to come to you. And again, as long as you keep to it, like it will.

Yeah, and they do.

Like, I feel like Weezy and I both manifested being New York Times bestsellers. All stacks were like, all odds were stacked against us. Even the fact that there is so much sex in terms of even the promotion and things around it, we were limited. We didn't even do any traditional media because as soon as they saw Sexually Liberated or even the book title, No Holds Barred, it immediately made people be like, oh, we can't talk about this. Bitch, how the fuck you think you got here? Somebody put a dick in a pussy, bitch. Goddamn it, can we talk about it?

But also the craziest part— so okay, I'm gonna give my feedback of the book, and I'm gonna give it on camera because I literally, when I opened up the book and I read the first 100 pages, first thing I did, I grabbed my phone and I texted Mandy. And I didn't even know Mandy like that. We were not on a text basis. We just met like a day or two before that. And I said, Mandy, I don't know what you've done, but this is amazing because I could not stop reading. I felt like I was in Mexico with her having the threesome with couple, but also like it wasn't just— see, like I have notes, so when I read books I always write notes and I always ask questions, but I also put them all here.

Good.

But the, the idea of the book, it was like, I like how you split it in 4 parts of having pleasure, pain, progression, and power. And it was so powerful because it wasn't just sex. Like this was so much deeper than sex. I felt like it was something that we all as women do. And I promise you, 99% of women think that and do that, but they say that they never done it because society tells them not to.

Not even you say you've done it. I think a lot of people sometimes are unaware of the things they've done or the experiences they've had because of the lack of knowledge. Even in like, you know, clearly the pain portion. I talk about a sexual assault that comes from— I didn't realize I had experienced this until later on. And that came from knowledge that came from a memory that I chose to black out like. And so I think again, whether you're a sexually liberated, promiscuous woman, or even you're more conservative and maybe only date in long-term relationships, there's at least one chapter within this book between my experiences and Wheezy's that I think can go across all gambits and fit a woman to where they can see themselves.

No, absolutely. I feel like the chapters— and it was so amazing to see the difference between you two because your chapters were written more of like in a Mandy style.

It was like I could—

I literally, I felt like I got inside of your head and I was experiencing things with you. And I'm not gonna stop saying it because it was so powerful. Like, I've never read a book written like that. And I read a lot. I'm an avid reader, so I like to read, and I read really fast. But this was like Thanksgiving. I literally sat and I read the book. I didn't do nothing. I didn't even know that they got dark outside. I could care less about eating. I just read the book. Like, and then Weezy's chapters were a little bit more like different. They were a little bit more in depth. And then they were a little bit— I'm not saying your chapters were not in depth, but like you could tell it was written in a very like professional way. And then like some of the experiences, I was like, wait, what? Now I want to try that.

Yeah. Like, and then you're talking about your experiences, especially with like sexual assault.

And I think everybody could relate to that chapter.

She shares one in her— she also had one as well.

Hers was insane. I was just like, that is so crazy. But then the thing is, when you start thinking about, you're like, oh my God, I've been through those things, but you just never put any like value on it. Or like when she says that we are trying to protect people who are actually assaulting us and the people who are the ones that unfold. And you know, and I've talked a lot about that because I've been sexually assaulted multiple times. And again, like, men think that they've got that power over us, which is like, no, you fucking don't. Yeah, it's just you are lucky I just kind of didn't go nowhere with it, but I could have.

I mean, I think it's— I think for, for us, sharing those experiences were important so that we didn't make it seem like sex was all just this happy-go-lucky best thing in the world, even though we also do believe that on the other hand, right? Um, but for, for us including those experiences, and a lot of the way I wrote my chapters stemmed from me including what my childhood looked like or a past to bringing you to whatever incident happened to now my thoughts of it in present day. And I think that's the thing around sex, around learning ourselves. There's a lot of things we have to unlearn that we were taught. And then there's a lot of things that through experiences, our mind changes after a while. And so I talk about that with a breakup and, you know, going from being a side chick to not wanting to accept the crumbs in a relationship. And so, yeah, like I said, like in terms of what this book is, it's— It's— I've been saying it's a blend between Chicken Soup for the Soul and Zane, or Sister Souljah, or Eric Jerome Dickens. So we were able to blend our sexual experiences in a memoir type of— in a memoir way with self-help.

Self-help and accountability, because it was so beautiful to say—

gonna be like, women don't know accountability, girl.

No, no, no, no, no. This was the most accountability I've ever seen, because sometimes, you know, it's scary to question yourself those things. It's scary to acknowledge those things and understand that like, yes, I've used sex for fun, but also it was an escape. And then also I'm relating—

I've used it for money. I've used it to be depressed. I've used it to validate myself. I think also the, the fact of the matter is like a lot of women also don't want to admit their insecurities. A lot of women don't want to admit to being hurt or being used or being delusional or going back to somebody they shouldn't have or staying in a relationship too long. Like a lot of women don't know how to hold up the mirror to themselves.

No.

And what they've received from lovers or intimate experiences because they don't know how to be vocalized. Like, they don't know how to vocalize their needs or they don't know how to tell a man no.

Yeah.

Or they only seek validation in pleasing a man, not in actually getting what they want out of them. And so I love that you picked up on all those things.

And I also love that every single chapter was ending with advice and tips for whatever chapter was about. There was advice and tips for it, how to do it in a safe manner.

Yep.

And how you can approach those if you want to have those conversations, you know, there's a couple of things. And also it had a lot of research and had a lot of actual academic backing.

That was important for me. So I know I included that a lot of my chapters, but it was really important for me, which, by the way, if y'all are writing a book, I wanted to include all those things, right?

Mm-hmm.

Bitch, when it got to the end of the process where we wrote it and submitted it, there's a part where legal goes through your book.

Mm-hmm.

Girl, they wanted MLA format. We had to go through and cite all of those.

Oh, you didn't know that?

I didn't know that.

Okay.

I didn't fucking know that. So, girl, we're including quotes like, girl, we got— and each chapter starts with patriarchal bullshit.

Yes.

Responded with matriarchal response, right? Girl, all the quotes we had to put the date, the time, the publication, because those quotes of when those people said those things had to be verified. So that niggas couldn't come and sue all the stats we did. Girl, we— that took so long. I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know. I think even in one part I tried to put lyrics to a song. They were like, girl, you got to cut these in half. You can't write out lyrics, you can't put tweets. It was— I was like, oh wow, this is something I don't know, especially as a creator now. I mean, clearly we see podcasters and media personalities being sued for saying shit, but in terms of writing this book, it was It was— wow. Like, my next book probably won't have that much things that we need to cite and source.

You'll do it in advance now. Like, now you know. No, no. Or maybe—

maybe I just minimized the goddamn— because that was a lot. And I was like, ooh, this is taking me back to school where I had to have a source cited page.

Yeah.

Where if you go to the very end of the book, it's there.

Oh, no.

Did you know it was there?

Yeah. The end of the book. That's like—

hold on. Oh, it's in there. Like, hold on. That's it, right?

Yeah.

Those are— Yeah, wait, is that there, right?

Yeah, yeah, it's okay.

Y'all get the book, y'all. All of our sources are cited. Yeah, on multiple pages. And then— and we had to find that. Legal wasn't finding that. They said, bitch, where you get this?

Tell us. Yeah.

And we had to like— oh my God.

And MLA has like a specific MLA format. Yeah.

I felt like I was back in motherfucking school.

Yeah, yeah. And that's a lot of sources to go through and then also find the pages because you have to cite the page, you have to cite the, the date and all of—

like, I mean, you know, people in school Mind you, we were getting a lot of like the quotes, especially the patriarchal shit from like philosophers from like the fucking 1700s and 1800s. So girl, you not just finding a YouTube video of them niggas talking. So it's like, where did they say this? We gotta find out where they said it or where the source, like it was quite a bit. Like there were quite a few quotes that we did have that had to be removed. And then I think, I don't know if he made it. I know there was like an Andrew Tate quote that I was trying to get, but it wasn't verbatim and I couldn't find the video. And I was like, fuck it, we got to find something else because I can't put Donald Trump in there. Donald Trump is in the book. I literally— Donald Trump. Donald Trump is in the book. But he definitely said you got to grab him by the pussy. I think that's the one we put, right? I literally— what quote do we use of Donald Trump?

So the quote is, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. When you are a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything. Literally my notes: ha ha ha.

So, so Trump said that, and then we wrote a matriarchal response, which again, that's such a— that's such a—

that's crazy.

Awful thing to say. Clearly you're disregarding consent. You're going against what maybe the woman wants. And so in the matriarchal response, it puts a woman in, in power to say, no bitch, we can— no.

It's wild. But anyways, this book was honestly highly recommend. I feel like every woman should read it. I feel like it's a manifesto and I feel like it really shows you how you can balance the therapy with the fun life, with the life that you want, the life that you wanna create. And it, you know, it talks a lot about you. So like they can actually get to know you on that deeper level. Like to the point where it's not like, you know, like you posted today when somebody's saying, oh, she's just, you know, I used whatever, 2000 miles on her body.

Oh, no way. I will read a motherfucking fulfill. But even that at the end of the day, like, A lot of men are gonna assume that a woman who has taken control of their sexual journey and actually knows what they want, oh, they've had too many experiences to be worth a damn, right? Like, but yet men and their body counts aren't supposed to matter at all. Men and how many experiences they've had aren't supposed to matter at all. Their trauma doesn't even matter. I mean, men have a difficult time even acknowledging that they've experienced levels of abuse and assault, and maybe that's why they're showing up the way they are today, right? And so unfortunately, when it comes to a woman like me who hops on a goddamn mic or writes a book or shares my experiences, oh, I'm, I'm old goods. But again, a lot of people that want to say that aren't people I would fucking look at twice.

Yeah.

Like I literally said today, a lot of them couldn't sniff a fart out my ass. I don't give a fuck.

But it's true.

Can barely get close enough to me to breathe the same air. And I've been lucky enough to be able to have really honest, healthy relationships with men recently to where all of that shit is just fluff because I have people in my life that love me, that show up. I'm not accepting crumbs. I am like so happy with where I'm at and who's currently in my life. So I'm not worried about that.

And I feel like it's two different people, right? Mandy as a podcaster and Mandy as a person is two different people. Yeah, but I mean, I mean, I already told you, but you choose what to do.

I mean, I lean into like the this villain shit. I'm definitely way more soft, way more sensitive off camera.

Yeah.

On camera. Yeah. You know, you got to be.

It's your job.

It's my job. I'm entertaining. I like to make jokes of things, but I mean, I'm a lot alike in person, but I think I'm a lot more caring and sensitive in person, like off of the pod than people view me as outside of it.

And you still question a lot of things, like even reading the book, I'm like, damn, you would never. Okay, so one of the first things that really stuck out to me. You talk a lot about your insecurities, and you say how, you know, I've always been insecure about my body, about my weight. Yet in the book I'm reading, I've been flown out by this athlete, I've been flown out by this— I mean, this man—

I lived a life.

This man gave me $30,000 just— I saw him twice.

How—

why do you still feel like you have those insecurities? What is it?

Oh, I don't have it today. Those are from experiences. All of those are experiences in my 20s.

Okay.

Or even my late teens. I think my first flyout, I was a senior in high school. Yeah.

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Like those were my early years. I mean, I think— I mean, I'm also 80 pounds less than what I was in my 20s. Like I had reached 230 pounds at 5'1". So like, and I was a size 18, you know what I mean? My skin wasn't all the way great. I was a broke bitch. Like, I think that from 20— from me graduating college getting my own career, living on my own, taking control of my weight, which I did do through gastric sleeve in 2018. Like, I would say I'm a completely different person from 2019 to present. I also have been in therapy now for 5 years.

Okay.

So, yeah, those insecurities came through me going to therapy. I realized that I didn't think I was good enough to be a priority in someone's life or be someone's girlfriend. I realized that Bitch, you got bills to pay and you can't go back home. You have no one else to rely on but yourself. So how are you going to get this money? Like, and so I talk about survival sex, you know, I talk about dealing with men only for how I could benefit from them financially, not really whether I liked them or not. And I talked about how having men fly me out or even having interest in me validated me and took me out of, you know, being so insecure. Like, that was the way that made me feel confident, which was not a great way to live. Like, if you're living your life based on the attention that people show you or the amount of men that want to fuck you, you're not secure, confident at all. And so I think it took a while for me to actually be happy with myself. When I wake up, I love how I can't motherfucking sing. I love fitting into the jeans that I want to wear for the day. I love looking in the mirror at myself like I'm happy and content. Like, I can spend 3 days in my house and not want to be up under a man because I feel lonely. I don't feel lonely by myself. And so I think that once you get through being able to be happy alone, like, you ain't going to have somebody come up in your life and fuck up your peace or make you miserable. Like, I'm not a miserable person by myself. You not finna come in and make me miserable. And so, yes, I thought it was very important to show in this book look all the moments and times that actually now when I look back, oh bitch, you did that because you weren't confident. You did that because you needed validation. You did that because you was a lonely bitch and this is what kept you going is getting attention from men. And so now today, girl, if I tell you the trips I'll be turning down, boy, I just want to be by myself. I don't want to be with someone that doesn't entice me, excite me, or make me happy.

Well, I feel like you fulfilled that void too because It's something you have to do. And I don't know, because like, I was bigger too before, in my 20s too. And I think it's just a hormonal thing too. And I was an athlete and I stopped playing tennis.

Same. I played sports all throughout school. Yeah. And then in my 20s, bitch, I changed it for a life of being a bartender, bottle girl. Like, I was in the clubs for 7 years. So mind you, you're drinking all night, you're eating at 5:00 in the morning. You're like, just your habits become terrible, right? And then of course, also in your 20s, you don't know a good skincare routine, you don't go to the gym, you probably don't have the money for a gym membership. Like financially and just figuring out life, a lot of the things that you should be concerned about, you're not.

Yeah.

You know? And so, yeah, same.

So you really— because see, for me, I do relate the way you look to confidence, not— and it's a part of it. It's like maybe like 15% of it is the way you look because sometimes you'll go and put a face of makeup and you're like, damn, I look better now. I feel better. Right. And so I feel like a lot of times women are trying to push this narrative that like, oh, if you have a bigger body, it doesn't mean that you're insecure. No, I feel like you are insecure. There is something that you're protecting yourself from.

What do you mean by that?

Like when you gain a lot of weight, you know?

Well, and that's the thing too, right? Like, and, and I think we've been seeing it with even Lizzo, right? Like when you're a bigger girl, whether you're happy with yourself or not, society Instagram, men, women will make you feel like, bitch, you ain't shit. And so there's a lot of women who are comfortable with their curves and love because that's what their mom looked like. That's what their aunties look like. Baby, this is what everyone around me looks like. I feel confident and the niggas still want it, right? But no, like when, when you have everyone pushing this narrative that you're unhealthy, that you're undesirable, that you're— that also because you're so big, you better just be lucky anybody's paying attention to you. I think when, when the internet projects those thoughts and things onto you, even as a confident woman, it could break you. And so there were moments that I thought I was confident. And in reality, like, I think a lot of it took a toll on me. And then there's also living in New York. There's nothing more I would say— I don't want to say embarrassing, but I remember in 2017, and mind you, I'm living in New York, so you have to layer. The idea that certain jeans don't fit you, right? That now you have to layer. So you're about to look even bigger or certain things don't fit you even though you, you need them to fit you, to keep you warm because of your size. That sucks. And then I remember going to Six Flags and the shit didn't close. Oh my God. Nothing is more like, bitch, get your life than not being able to ride a roller coaster. Yeah. Like, what do you mean?

Or like when you get on the plane and it's like tight and you're like, shit, I can't.

I'm, I'm going over it. Like, yeah, this, this isn't comfortable. And so again, there's literal aspects of life that will put you into reality that that, okay, you might be okay with this, but maybe this ain't okay because life has not, you know, acclimated itself to make you comfortable. And so what it does is it feeds into your insecurities and makes you uncomfortable. Even without— you could be the fucking most confident big bitch in the world, bitch, take your ass to a goddamn theme park. Nothing is more uncomfortable than not being able to goddamn ride the rides. Now you just gotta walk around eating a goddamn turkey leg looking like a fat watching all the skinny people like, oh, that bitch shouldn't be eating the goddamn turkey leg, because I feel like you too big to even be fucking eating. The bitch should be eating a salad. Like, you literally— you have people in society that look at big people like they shouldn't even be consuming food. As if we don't need to do that for, for living.

And well, okay, what kind of food you're consuming?

But see, even that bitch, they can eat whatever they want. Absolutely. The little skinny bitches could go around. Y'all got Sweetie at a motherfucking eating Cheetos, Hot Cheetos, the fucking Oodles of Noodles, bitch. All that goddamn sodium. But it's cute. No, it's not cute. She got her BBL and titties.

Yeah, yeah, bitch.

Let a big bitch eat that too, though. So that's what I'm saying. Even, even your— our immediate response as previous big girls to even have that mindset. No, like, and so unfortunately, like, the world globally will make you feel like you should not be here in the body that you're in.

That's true. And also, like, we grew up— because you were also '90s baby, right?

So we're— and now, right?

So I, I was born in '94. You were '91?

'90.

'90. Yeah. I grew up in Russia in the '90s and mind you, the standard of beauty is a skinny, like I'm a second level of obesity right now for Russian standards.

Right.

It's like this, like '90s, like what is it like heroin chic thing that was Kate Moss, you know, smoking cigarettes, doing blow. Like, cuz that was the beauty. That was the standard of beauty.

Well, the European standard of beauty. Has been pushed onto us for years as well. So even I get Russia is its own thing, but the European standard of beauty is you— blonde hair, blue eyes. That's why fucking people are so upset with Sydney Sweeney and her goddamn American Eagle jeans ad, right? But imagine being a woman with any bit of color. Yeah. Imagine being a woman with any bit of curves. And mind you, these curves came in 5th grade. Which I had hips, thighs, and titties in the 5th grade. And this is when it's funny, because when I look back and I look at videos of Beyoncé and J.Lo was considered thick. Bitch, watch them videos with today's eyes. Them bitches were skinny. To know that they were considered big. If you look back on America's Next Top Model and, and the girl like Lyrica, uh, who's the other girl? I can't remember the other girl, but she did, uh, I can't remember her name off the top of my head.

Uh, Heidi Klum, Cindy Crawford.

No, no, I'm talking about America's Next Top Model. Oh, they They, they, uh, her name starts with a T. Oh yeah, y'all will know it in the comments.

Tyra?

Takara.

Takara.

Okay, Takara. Not, not the, not the male engineer knowing.

I know, that's right.

But when you look back and seeing the bodies that they even considered to be thick, baby, my mom used to say I have JLo ass, meaning she had a huge ass.

And I'm like, look at her now.

JLo ain't got no ass, right? Well, JLo J.Lo ain't got no ass. But don't you think it's obnoxious? She had to wear butt pads to be Selena. If you look at her on anything today, from our eyes today, go and look from the 2000s back, even when she was dating Diddy, bitch, the bitch ain't have no ass.

That's crazy too.

Go look, y'all go look at it, go look at it. But maybe with a little Coke bottle flat stomach, she ain't have no ass. I think we all know ass to be— it wasn't ass, bro.

Yeah, no, but it's also like Would you ever do a BBL?

No.

Okay, good.

I don't need to. My friends have all kept me from it anyways. They're like, bitch, your ass is big enough. And I already got a little small tummy. I might do a little— I might get a little lipo.

Okay.

But no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't need a BBL. I think that's the interesting thing now too, right? Like for me at 35, the idea of wanting to walk into a room and immediately have everyone assume that I fucking sell pussy or I'm a stripper, I'm past that. Like, I don't need men to want to fuck. Pay me for sex because I walk into a room and they're like, goddamn. Like, I like looking natural. I like being thick and natural, right? And I like that it's soft. I like that— I like the nigga's question if I got a BBL. Girl, I just fucked a YN the other day. Not the other day, it was like 2 months ago, but I fucked a YN and, uh, when we got done, he asked me if I had a BBL. And I said, oh baby, this is just— this is grown— this is grown woman curves right here. I got them about 10 years. And I was like, oh no, baby, this is grown woman curves. Like, I ain't even gonna hold you. But he was like, stand up. He made me do it. He could not believe— like, and I was like, yeah, because you out here, you know, the little youngins ain't fill out yet. They ain't had any— I ain't even have no babies. A bitch just been thick. But I'm like, you know, like, younger girls don't fill out so much now.

So, you know, it's, it's so crazy because when I'm like— again, when I was reading your book, I'm like, I can relate to it so much because 'cause I, I'm not a standard of beauty in my culture at all. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.

You know, you are here.

Here, here. That's what I'm saying. It's a completely different thing.

Well, girl, you've been here since you was 14.

Since I was 19.

19, 19.

But that's what I'm saying. So imagine for like this entire time I'm living where people are just saying that, you know, girls who are like 5'5 are pretty. Girls who are skinny are pretty. Girls who have like brown eyes are pretty. Girls who have thinner lips are pretty. Like girls who have smaller, skinnier faces who have like less chin than me.

So, you know, like, we both fighting this, right?

This shit is like—

this is the white genes in us, bitch. This is the caucasity of it all.

But like, I also have cellulite. I'm like, I'm a curvier and I'm 6'2", so it's like, imagine—

it's too crazy.

6'2" with curves. And like, I have like— and I'm an athlete, but I've always had like very soft skin.

People always like, you date shorter guys?

No, I don't want that.

No, I want to say no to short guys.

No, there's only one one exception.

And how short is short?

6 feet. That was the shortest.

Girl, that is not short.

But like, to me it's short because I feel gigantic.

So you hate bitches like me because I'm 5'1" and all my niggas like 6'3" plus.

That's— listen, my only question is, how does your neck not hurt? Because I dated somebody who was 6'11" and I was like, no, I don't want to do that.

Girl, when you sit down, lay down, you're the same height. And girl, I love—

I get it.

Standing up, it's great.

I didn't like it. I, I didn't, I didn't like— I didn't like— like, even this guy, he was like 6'7" and he picked me up and I was like, bro, put me back, I can't do this.

I got a 6'7", 6'8". Jesus Christ, I've dated a nigga who was 7'2".

What the hell? And how does that work?

Oh, it works great too.

It works.

What, bro, I, I don't act like we just be standing up together all the time. Yeah, but no, I'm just waiting for something like, well, okay, we're probably in the car, we in the bed, we sitting down to eat, like they're maybe getting from one point to the next, but we're not just living our lives standing up next to each other.

I get it. I get it. So it's more of like, you know, you were like actually dating them.

So if I'm actually dating, I don't know what you—

I think—

I don't know what people mean with this date word. Well, you know, I don't know what it means. They throw that around often. I mean, you're actually dating them, whatever that means.

Let's talk about the roster because that's—

whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So we're talking about 6'7", 6'8", 6'3", whatever. Whatever. So when you were talking about the roster, I just want to—

I don't consider them a roster. I want to be very clear.

Okay.

I am lifestyle.

Okay.

They are all loved.

Okay.

No, in my— No, no, no, no. Don't call them a roster.

Okay.

They all know about each other.

Okay.

I am living in my truth. I don't lie to any of my partners.

Okay.

And so they each know about each other. They know when I'm around the other person.

Okay.

And I'm very open with what the relationship are, um, they too are aligned with lifestyle, and it makes sense for us.

So, okay, whatever is the word, it's a lifestyle.

Okay, the lifestyle.

I wouldn't get to the logistics of a lifestyle. Okay, so how does that work? Do you guys— because obviously you gotta like FaceTime, you gotta go and date, see each other, have sex with each other.

It seems like that's so hard.

No, I'm just trying to understand. You are a busy woman. I can only imagine.

I know, which is why it works for me right now. Okay, none of my partners locally.

Okay.

So we make plans, which is exciting. Like with any partner, like you get excited about the next time you're going to see them.

Okay.

And then we make plans together. We plan dates, we plan trips, dinners, trips, what we're going to do, if we're going to add anyone extra. Like all of that's discussed.

How do you have those discussions? Because I'm not going to lie, I think that's the hardest part for me to just be like, I'm very honest too. I'm very honest. Like, I will be like, listen, but it's hard for me to juggle multiple people. I have a hard time with it, and I think it's my cultural belief.

No, it's your mind, because you can juggle multiple friends, you can juggle multiple siblings, you can juggle multiple parents. Like, it's the same fucking concept. We put on it— like, we put these, like, unrealistic expectations on romantic partnership.

I agree.

Yeah, we expect them to show up as nonhuman and to have everything right and know everything that I want and please me in everything. And oh my God, like, we, we have these expectations. Expectations of human beings that aren't realistic. You saying you can't juggle multiple people is not true. You juggle multiple jobs, you juggle multiple everything else in your life, but when it comes to a person you like, you can't? That, that realistically doesn't make sense. It's not logical. Okay, you actually can. As human beings, we do. Oftentimes you have different ways in which you love and show up for all the different people in your life. It's the same for romantic partners. So it's the same for those people in my life. And it's, it's important to talk to them and communicate with them because you want to be sure that you're giving them what fulfills them as well, right? Like, and so it's not just a take, take, take, take, take. It's we both show up in each other's life where we can both enjoy life together. We can create memories together and we can fucking enjoy, enjoy what the fuck we want. And we don't feel like we're, we're, we're compartmentalizing and not being able to express ourselves. We don't feel like we're not safe with each other. We don't feel like we have to go through each other's phones when, whenever one leaves the room because we're open about the shit.

Like, so how does that conversation go? Because do you— so do you start with that concept, or how do—

like, you meet somebody, I think it's coming right now. Like, I got 3 boyfriends right now. Okay, so you want to be 4? Like, like, like what? Like, and if you're not, I think also I'm just very honest, which I might get away from it. Honestly, right now, my 3, I'm fully fulfilled. Okay, so I don't even want to go outside right now. I don't need nobody in my face. I don't want to be taking on dates. I am I am fully fulfilled.

Okay.

But like, when I first moved here, it was interesting because what I'm having the most difficult time isn't really finding partners that maybe get my lifestyle or get me or, or enjoy me or where we're sexually compatible. Those seem to be the easy part. I think it becomes the milestones of relationships that people have in their mind, right? So at 35, I don't want kids. Kids. OK. And so that being an early conversation with men who may not have children now or want more, that seems to be the deal breaker. It's not that I have multiple partners. It's not that, hey, we need to get tested, but also I'm using condoms because I don't want babies, but I'm also not going to get on birth control because I care about my body and what I put into it. The conversation has really been like making sure long term this makes sense for you. I'm not here to waste anybody's time. And so I think that's the conversation that most people don't have even when they date monogamously.

Oh, no, they don't.

Like, do you want kids? No, but he does. But yet y'all still gonna get together and figure this out? No. I think people have a hard time stepping away from something that fully doesn't serve them or believing that they can change someone else's mind. And so the way to go into how I date is being fucking real with yourself and the people that you're pursuing. Like, do you both have the capability to please each other? Or show up for how each other wants. And if you don't, you have to be okay with next.

Yeah.

People aren't okay with next because they feel like, oh my God, I have someone, they like me. Oh my God, let me see how I can make this work. Like, people are so, so hung up on like not wanting to feel rejection early on. Like, it's better than fucking being hurt or dragged along for 6 months in a situationship. And now 6 months in, you gave this nigga raw pussy and bought them fucking Christmas gifts, and you asking 6 months later, so what are we? Hey girl, I told you I wasn't looking for anything. The nigga told you week 1 he wasn't looking for nothing, and yet you stuck it out through 6 months for what?

Yeah, you—

I think people just don't listen. They go in and they date the idea of—

oh, I was gonna say, yeah, they date the idea.

They hate the date the idea of. So they'll meet a guy with a nice paying no kids, and look good. And immediately a woman will go in and have their whole fucking next 3 years built out with this nigga in his mind, in their mind. And I also feel uncomfortable using the N-word with you, so I'm gonna chill out on the N-word. I don't care, you good. But no, like, so for me, it's like you— how we said you could be delusional as an entrepreneur, I think we have to drop a bit of the delusion in romantic partnership.

I always say that to my friends too, um, especially like the women that I talk to. They expect a call. They expect a man to give flowers. They expect— I'm like, he doesn't fucking know you yet. He doesn't know because you are not the other girl that he dated. And even if he says that, oh, like, you just like— no, because you have certain expectations, you need to lay them out. And you got to be okay with, you know, like you're saying, it's okay to hear no.

But also, if he wanted to, he would. The way these men show up when they really like someone is telling. And so the fact that I've luckily been in multiple experiences with men that, oh my God, moved the world for me, showed up, flew themselves, took me out. Like I have, I have someone in my life that literally flies in to take me to dinner.

Oh, wow. I love that.

Flies in to take me to dinner. Like, and so again, when you have someone that, you know, really fucks with you, you don't got to sit there and question if they do or not.

You don't. Yeah, I think that's, that's the thing that I'm learning that, you know, I, I will try, but you know, at the same time, I'm like, I'm not a $100 bill. I'm not liked by everybody. You know, if you don't like me, you don't like me.

Who don't like $100 bills?

No, I'm just— I don't know what dollar bill. Listen, some people, they want—

you gotta say I ain't a penny. They don't even make those no more. You know, some people want to get a penny. Some people like, I don't want this thing, right?

Like, I'm not a dollar bill. Like, I'm not—

there we go.

I'm not a dollar bill. $1,000.

Yeah, I want $100 bill now. It's a recession. I don't know, you know, but I'll take a $100 bill. I get it.

Like, you know, I also have a personality. Like, you might not vibe with my personality. Also having a podcast, you know how many men told me we don't date you because of a podcast? That's good.

I wouldn't date podcast men either. I ain't even— that's the last thing on my checklist. Oh, you got a podcast? Yuck, gross. And so I'm fine with— I've had men be very nervous about even talking to me, like, because they know they could end up as a topic on the podcast.

But also, that's a conversation to have, you know, because I had somebody who was dating me, and that's the first thing they said. He's like, I would love for this to stay between us because I want this to be our experience. And I was like, I respect your opinion because nobody has said that before.

Well, I had to actually realize my own faults. I was in a relationship for 3 years, and everything came on the pod. I was like, nigga, don't nobody know you. Like, you got a nickname, don't know what. Like, he was a regular retired fucking firefighter, right? So I was like, man, don't nobody even know you. So I shared everything. And then my last relationship, I was with an actor who was a public figure, and I considered him so much more. And we had conversations and I got permission before I brought something to the podcast and It took that to realize, damn, as much as I loved my ex, that was so shitty of me to not consider him. And so it took me actually considering my next boyfriend to realize, damn, you weren't a good partner because your partner expressed how much it hurt him to read the comments, even though people didn't know him or hear him or see clips or— girl, we bulk record. So I would break up with him, dogshit him. It would drop a month later. We're back together. So we're back together happy. But the podcast is me dogging this fuck nigga out, right? And so it was just like, wow, I had to take a look at myself like, damn, I really didn't show up for my partner, the first, the last partner, in the way that I could have because I was so like into, well, I'm putting what I want on my podcast. Yeah, but that wasn't the case because when I got with someone a lot more public whose career I also considered, I was, I was I've shared very little bit about our relationship on air, and I had to realize how much I didn't consider my last person.

And another part of the book that I really loved, that they did say that we had to get consent and permission from everybody who is named in the book to be written about. So that's another thing about the book that I was like, wow, this is so amazing because usually people would just be like, oh yeah, we're just going to write.

Well, I think We didn't really put names. So like, there are like both of our assaults were celebrities. Mm-hmm. And we both decided that to sell this book, no, didn't need to out anybody. No. I don't know if she's had a conversation with her abuser. My abuser, I still see all on the internet. But we didn't feel like we were— we needed to drop names to push sales of the book.

No, because I don't think the names that— it's not about— they wouldn't even—

it's not relevant.

The book is so much bigger than the celebrity or anything else.

And we didn't want—

we didn't—

so there are no celebrity names. We use our friends' names. And again, we talk about our upbringing. So those people, yeah, all gave us permission. And for my chapter, I interviewed my mom, I interviewed my friend Keeta, I interviewed Ally, like my friends that are written in the book. We did interviews with them to get their sides of the story so that I made sure I had details correct.

Yeah, especially the part with your abortion and your mom.

That was, that was beautiful.

I was like, wow, this is such a hard conversation to have. But the way that you guys were able to come together and communicate, that was amazing. But back to the conversation of the lifestyle. So all of those people that you're dating, obviously they all get sex from you. You? Or no?

Yes, the three.

Yes, the three. But even if somebody else is going to come in there—

for what? Like, right now? Like, that's the thing. Casual sex?

No. Okay.

Right now?

No. Okay. And I think that's the misconception about you.

For what? Like, if I have men that care about if I'm sick, that are celebrating my birthday, that are in tune with everything I'm doing professionally, and either help or relieve stress in my life, who I talk to daily.

Mm-hmm.

Why would I just bust it open for someone random?

That's again, because people look at you and they're like, oh, she's writing. She's so, like, sexually liberated.

No, like, even LeWayne cut, cut him off.

I thought he—

and I was like, really, I don't need this. But I had gotten to a place where with the people in my life, we like made things like official. Like, I could say you my girlfriend now, right? I could say you my boyfriend right now. And it's like, yeah, once that was made exclusive, right now I'm not— I have zero desire to insert someone else sexually because I'm fulfilled sexually, or insert someone else for what? I think that's the thing too. I think a lot of women don't acknowledge when they're simply bored. Girl, girl, we be out here entertaining motherfuckers because we just bored.

Bored.

Yeah, and like, luckily I'm into binge-watching TV right now, so the way I keep finding new shows, I don't need to— I'm not that bored. And I think that that's another mirror that a lot of women have to hold up. Like, you don't want to have casual sex, you don't want to date, you know, 5 different guys a week, you don't want these guys to keep dropping off every 2 and a half weeks because now you just lose interest. You're just bored. And realistically, you're not getting what would fulfill you out of any of these people. Yeah, that's all it is. Like, and when I go back and deem how I was casually having sex, yeah, like, bitch, you're bored, or you're seeking validation, or you don't know how to be alone because you're lonely. Like, and so once you get out of that, girl, casual sex don't even— girl, and these men don't even be making you cum.

So, and that's the part that I really, I really like that you touch on that because you do talk about being the fun girl in some of the chapters, and you say, I found myself deeply depressed. And that's exactly how I felt when I did have casual sex with people that I didn't even connect with. I didn't even know much about them. And I remember I would wake up or come home and I'll crawl in a blanket, like I would cuddle up with my dog and I'd be like, I feel so lonely. I feel so sad. I feel so anxious.

I feel used. I mean, so I got into my first relationship at 29, 30.

Mm-hmm.

Like, and that's the relationship I talk about in the book. And it was the first time that I was— I chose to be exclusive with someone. It was the first time. I mean, and we dealt with girls, but for the most part, he was the only guy I was dealing with. And there was just such a strong level of intimacy and attentiveness in terms of like what my love languages were that when we broke up for good and I tried to go back to just a casual sex partner, That lasted very briefly because I literally like told him how empty I felt after sex with him. Of course he didn't take kindly to it, but I was like, I can't do this. Like, I feel empty. Like you're putting me through the mattress and leaving. There's no aftercare. There's no conversation. There's no— that connection isn't there. And so when you get to a point where you actually experience that, the idea of casually having sex that really is just sex. No, just the motion of it ain't that enticing without like all the deeper intricacies of soul ties and all that other shit.

Yeah, it just—

sex is just so much better when you actually like the person.

Oh, no, for sure. And it's so intimate. And again, the way that you guys like the sex dungeon part. Oh my God.

Oh yeah, yeah. I like going to dungeons and sex clubs.

I—

but like the way—

see, here's the thing. Thing. You can deem it as nasty and like, you crazy and you stupid and whatever, but you can also— but like, a lot of times conservatives—

conservatives, you fucking Republicans, have some goddamn kooth. It's just a little fun. Uh, but no, go ahead.

But it's true. Like, you know, like today we were— oh no, not today, was like a couple, couple weeks ago, we were listening to this, uh, to Future, like, put a thumb in her butt. And a coach was listening to— coach was like, wait, people do that now? I'm like, I don't know how y'all made kids, but like, that's vanilla.

That's right, right, right. Thumb in the butt.

But then That's what I'm saying.

But he gonna suck his thumb right after. Okay, now I'm doing a lot, but it's okay.

But, but here's the thing, is like, it's okay to be nasty. It's okay to be like free in your sexual experiences. Like, I love those things.

They allow men to have body counts of— what was Wilt Chamberlain, 10,000 or some crazy shit?

That's crazy.

Doesn't get judged at all. Like, they allow men to have all the sexual experiences, all the body count. They can fuck as many women as want.

But again, you know, men who have thousands of people on their roster or whatever, the body count, a lot of times they haven't experienced those sex dungeon part of intimacy, of sex, and like of actual connection. Because the way that you guys can connect in those little exp— because you have to trust each other. Yeah. And the way that you actually like can become one, it like— reading the book, I was like, goddamn, that's what makes you really like It's like your universe that nobody has access to.

Also, I think we have to be real about this bullshit-ass body count conversation. Let me ask you, do you care how many women a man has slept with?

I've never asked that question. I don't care.

Do you? But do you care if a man said, yeah, I've slept with 1,000 women before you? Does it make you think anything?

I mean, be honest. No, to be honest, no.

And that's me too. I want a slut. I want a man who is— as long as he's clean, I want a man that has had all the experience. I want a man that just knows how to put his finger in there and it squirts. I want a man that done been with all the women, that knows how to deal with all the bodies, that knows how to please. I want a slut. The truth of the matter is a real man also wants that out of his woman. They just can't admit to it. They want a man that knows how to do all the things and make them feel all these special ways. How the fuck do you think a woman woman is gonna know how to do that. She needs a little bit of practice. That's what Drake said. I can tell them, you know what I mean? But it's true though, we gotta practice.

We gotta practice. And the thing is, the same, same reality goes towards dating. You got to practice dating because you gotta practice dating.

Even though I don't, I hate dating.