Men Are Expected To Be Everything And Feel Nothing | From Nate With Love

I knew who he was, or like you knew me. I don't know how it was like, as if like we've known each other. You were like, hi, or something. I'm just like, I've seen you somewhere. I don't know how I know you, but I was like, I know you. That rarely happens with me, but I'm like, sometimes some people just feel like you've known them, like you've met them before. And I was like, oh, I've known you. I don't know, maybe it's like a bald guy with a beard.

It's a lot of those, for real.

No, I've always said, I think it started about a year and a half ago where I was like, you know what, my type is a bald guy with beard.

Oh, that's your type?

I just somehow it ends up being my type. Yeah, I like— but I think it's so cute. I don't know what women have against not having hair.

I don't think that women— I mean, I've heard that a lot of women like it.

Bald?

Yeah, a lot of women like bald head. It's like a mask, it's like mad very masculine. Think Tupac, think— but then you add the beard. Yeah, it's just like Yeah.

I heard, like, I had friends who, they would literally say, it's important for me to have a man who has a lot of hair. I'm like, what does that, I mean, I don't know what that does to a man. Rod is bald too. Are you bald too?

Yeah, I got a couple of years. He said he holding on, he holding on. Yo man, listen. I started going bald when I was like 21, 22. It was young.

Really? Did that do anything to your like ego, or like— no, no.

I think— I actually think I look better without hair, looking back, like at some old pictures.

I can't imagine you with hair.

Yeah, so yeah.

And you know what it is? Bald man can pull off any hat.

Facts.

You guys look so good with hats on.

We wear a lot of them because Half the time my hair is grown out and we don't feel like shaving it, and so we got to cover it up.

You still have to shave it?

Yeah.

Is it like— does it grow in patches?

Yeah.

Can I see?

That's crazy. I don't think that this is where we want to do that. I can't see. Not while cameras are rolling.

No?

No.

Okay guys, we'll see behind the scenes.

Maybe later. Maybe when we're all bowling, you know what I'm saying?

Whoa, that's crazy. Why? I think that's fine. You know, this is not my hair either. This extension, so it is what it is. I never hid that.

Oh nice.

Yeah, people think it's my hair. I'm like, no, I've got, I've got— I used to have 22-inch, now it's 20-inch extensions. But I'm not bald. I got hair. I just like the length. Yeah, I cut a bob in 2024 and then, um, it's still growing back. It's still growing back. It's gonna take a while. The thing about me, like, I cut a bob and then 2 weeks later I I came into the hair salon and I was like, so, um, I want my hair long again. And she goes, well, you can't. You literally— because I chopped my hair off to like here, right? And she was like, this is not something we can do right now.

All right, that's it.

I said, well, fuck it, let's just dye my hair. And I dyed my hair brown. So like, I want like super dark brown.

Yeah.

And then she's like, can you just like exist in what you have? And I'm like, no, I need to change it.

Yo, that's hilarious.

Women.

That's hilarious.

You can't figure us out because we can't figure ourselves out.

Yeah, nah. Yeah, some of the most beautifully complex creatures. Why?

What's complex about us?

Everything.

Like what? Where do you start? First thing that confuses you about women? Yeah.

Um, I think, I think for a lot of women, they don't understand their own emotions. And so it can be difficult for us to really tap in because they don't, they don't understand theirs, right? And so it's, it's like, it's like stumbling in the dark to try to find what they need or what you need sometimes, you know, when you're dealing with a confused woman.

It's very simple. When you fight and then she leaves, you're supposed to go after her. Okay, when she said leave me alone, you need to go after her.

But then, okay, so, so So even considering that, right? Like, what if she says, I told you to leave me alone, right? Like, what if she feels like it's harassment? Because there's some women, I've heard women say that, like, oh, like, when we say we want to be left alone, we really want you to chase us, right? But then there are guys that are annoying about chasing, like they are adamant about chasing. It's just like, I told you to leave me alone. See, this is the confusion, right? Like, no, for real, like even from the onset, even from the onset, when you think about the concept of people playing hard to get. No woman that's ever wanted me was difficult to get.

I don't believe in the whole playing hard to get thing, to be honest.

But this is what we've been taught. Not only like, from the time that we were younger, but even in like Disney movies, you got Jasmine being chased by Aladdin. I'm telling you, like, a woman that wants you, she's not gonna make it difficult.

I think same thing for a man. If a man wants you, he's not going to make it difficult. He's going to make it very known that, you know, I want you. But I think at the same time, I think women have a very unrealistic expectation of what a man is going to do when he wants you. I think it's always like, you know, especially me talking and we kind of chatted before, you know, doing the show. And I, a lot of times I hear from my girlfriends that like, oh, he would do this, he would do that, he would. And I'm like, he's not a mind reader. He doesn't know what I want or what I like. Like, I can't expect a man to just be a perfectly groomed prince that's just going to come on a white horse and then sweep me off my feet and propose to me and make me fall in love with him, and then we're going to end up marrying. I don't think that's how it works. But women have this idea that that's what a man is supposed to do. Oh, if he wanted to, he would.

You know the reason why? Do you know the reason why?

Why?

Because we've been sold the idea of a prince or a knight in shining armor, right? Like, that this man is going to show up, he's going to sweep you off your feet. Some men, um, are like stoves. Sometimes it takes a little while to warm up, right? Right. To a woman, sometimes it takes a man, um, a little bit to even identify whether this is someone that they can see themselves taking seriously, right? And so I think, uh, I think in some ways we have to throw out the rules I agree with you.

I think in a lot of ways we've got to throw out the rules because who made those rules? Like the way I live my life, I can't expect another person to live like me because that's why we're all different people and we come into the room for a certain reason to exchange and share our experiences. But it bothers me. Like I just went recently through that with like friendships where people want to impose their narrative on me and I'm like, I'm not agreeing with it. I just, I refuse to agree with it because that's your lived experience and my experience is very different and I'm not willing to deviate from my experience just because you're trying to impose that on me.

Right, for sure.

So especially when it comes down to relationships, I'm like, nobody fucking knows how to do it.

I mean, yeah, I don't think, I always tell people all the time that I'm not a relationship expert, right? I think a lot of times when they see people talk about relationships, love, the beauty of it, the nuances of it. We want to smack a label on them that says, oh, they're a relationship expert. I don't think that there is such thing as a relationship expert.

I don't know. I can't see, like, I don't think this whole idea of an expert is a little bit— to me, it's a little bit too like— I don't even know if it's abstract or like too— like it's too perfect. Like expert means that you know it from A to Z. And at the end of the day, we're all people, right? And we don't know, you know, there's so many variables in the relationship that can happen. Like, you know, we talked about there is a past experience, there is experience that leads to the final thing that's gonna be, cuz people are gonna take out the most negative thing. That's, that's what's gonna be the most, you know, the something that they're gonna, the eyes are gonna go towards the most negative, the most dramatic thing. That's just how it is.

Right.

That in anything, like if you post content, if I'm posting content where I throw my racket into the fence, that's what's gonna go. But where I'm playing the best tennis of my life, life and hitting the ball really well, nobody cares about that, right? Exactly. Because that's not negative. That's not like something that they can be like, oh, look at her.

So we gotta throw some negativity in the podcast.

Yeah, let's do it.

Oh, that's crazy.

Let's do it.

She said let's do it. That's crazy.

Yeah, you got to be a dick at some point. You just gotta come out and be like, you know what, I'm a fuckboy.

No, I'm not. I feel like, I feel like I've had seasons of my life where, um, maybe I was less of a lover boy than I am now, right? But I don't think I've ever necessarily— I mean, I've had moments. I've had my moments. I'm not gonna say I haven't had my moments.

Well, let's do a little intro and then we're gonna go into the full conversation because, you know, it was like a little warm-up.

Okay, that was the lobby. We're getting ready to walk into the room now. That was the lobby.

That's— yeah, that's a lobby.

Gotcha.

That's a little, you know, appetizer.

Okay.

This is Talk Less. Talk less, do more. All right, guys. Well, welcome back to Talk Less Show, where conversations go a little bit deeper than the surface. And today I got this amazing human being sitting across from me. And let me read you a little introduction that I wrote with my friend ChatGPT.

That's crazy.

Always do those. Always do those. So today isn't just about love, it's about identity. When people see Nate, they see a message, they see wisdom, they see faith, they see a man who speaks about love with intention. But I am more interested in who you are outside of the quotes. Outside of the brand, outside of what people expect from you. Who are you when no one is watching? Who are you when you're disappointed? Who are you when you're unsure? So let's talk about the actual man, not just the message. Welcome to Talk Less Show, Nate.

Yo, I like that intro. ChatGPT did a good job.

Well, I have to tell Chat what to say.

That's crazy.

I have to share my thoughts before.

Okay.

And then we kind of come up with everything together. And at the end of the day, it's all, you know, my tweaking and like—

Well, you both did well.

We did a great job. We're a team.

I understood.

You know, like I told you, I was just, I was just at the recording of this big podcast and they had like 30 people doing the production. And I'm like, man, it's me and ChatGPT. We do it together.

You and Chat making history.

All right. So every person that comes on my show, they answer this one question. If there is one thing you can talk less about, what would it be?

There's one thing that I could talk less about. Um, it would probably be— I talk a lot about relationships, so if I was to talk less about something, it probably would be relationships. That's why, basically. Uh, I think that that's most of what I talk about, right? Like, or that's most of what people want to hear from me. Um, which is, which is fine, but if I was to talk less about something, it's not that I'm not interested in talking about it, but I would talk less about it and then maybe about other things. I think that, uh, I think that life is nuanced. So, um, there's so many different pieces of the, of the puzzle. And so sometimes what happens is, um, people can get stuck in a certain lane.

Yeah.

Based upon what people have found them to be most successful in talking about. Not even most successful in doing, but most successful in talking about. So I think for me it probably would be less about relationships.

Well, I feel like because it's your brand, you know, you are everything. Like your name is From Nate with Love. And so I think automatically people put a relationship label on it versus putting like more of a love can be anything and everything. Love can be, you know, in any space. And I'll share this little story. Like today I haven't been feeling well, like the last week I haven't been feeling well. And then I was like, man, do I cancel? Do I not? But I'm like, I know you're here for a certain amount of time. So I'm like, First of all, I appreciate you for stopping by Talk Less Show. Nate lives in Dallas. He's in Atlanta for— in Dallas, right? Yeah, I live in Dallas. Yeah. So you're in Atlanta for a couple of days. And so you reached out and you're like, hey, I'm ready to do the show. So I'm like, bet. And I've been looking forward to it. And so this is kind of like— it's so random how everything happens, but I've been feeling really under the weather and I've kind of like just been to myself for the last couple of days. You know, I haven't even posted. I haven't been doing nothing. I just I've been working on the show on the back end in my bed, like literally from my bed. And then I was like, well, let me start preparing for the show because like I always want to watch some of the episodes that you've done, like some of the content that you put out there. And I put on the show that you did about finding the wife, or what is that, the one that you did like about a year ago about like looking for the wife or something about—

Dear Future Wifey.

Dear Future Wifey. Yeah.

Okay. That was a good— that was a good episode.

And it was—

shout out to LaTarris.

Such a good episode. And the way you were talking, and I think it's like sometimes I get very disconnected from faith and God and just go into the spiral. And my neighbor, she always says it's like the devil is trying to take over. And I'm like, that's what it literally was. And I started watching the episode and I got up and I was like, oh my God, there's light. And I was like, wait, now I really want to talk to Nate. Like, wait, hold up, hold up. Now all of a sudden I feel better. Now there's more light because you guys were talking about such profound things, including God and faith into everything. I was like, wow, this is beautiful. This is so good. And then just like the feeling was very different afterwards. And I was like, okay. And like physically I feel better now. Like I don't feel like I'm sick anymore. I feel like something is just like something. And then you did the episode with Ticia, who is incredible and I love her so much.

That's my sister. I love Ticia so much.

She's such a beautiful person. I met her too and I cannot wait for her to come back to Atlanta and I'm probably gonna go and do an episode with her too. Such a beautiful person. And I was just like, oh my God. Like, I'm like, and you guys almost cried like multiple times.

We definitely, we, we, uh, Yeah, I think on that episode I cried twice.

You did?

Yeah. I'm very deeply in touch with my emotions at this stage of my life.

And it was pissing me off sometimes.

Why?

Because, you know, I— and I told you that, and I don't know what it is because I'm just like, I love it. But I feel like you do an extreme— like you're so extreme with your emotions. You're so— maybe to me it's like, wow, like this man is so in touch with his emotions, with his vulnerability. And to me, it's very foreign. I'm not really like Even just me as a person, I can be honest, but like, I— me going vulnerable, I don't even know who sees that side of me.

I think, I think it's foreign for a lot of people, though. I don't think that it's the norm, but I think it's important. But I don't think it's the norm at all. And we've, we've been conditioned to keep this wall up. We've been conditioned not to access our emotions. We've, we've almost been taught that it's a sign of weakness. And so nobody wants to show weakness, right? If I let you in, I can hurt— you can hurt me. If I show you my, my emotions, I'm showing you weakness. And so for a lot of people, they stray away from it. I have a different perspective though. I think that, um, I became my strongest when I developed the courage to actually feel my emotions, express them, you know what I'm saying, in a way that is deeply genuine. I tell people this all the time, When— and I'm just using this as an example— when we cry, we release stress hormones. When God designed our bodies, he designed our bodies to regulate itself, meaning that if we're stressed out or if we're overwhelmed or if we feel happiness or if we feel immense sadness, that we would release stress hormones so that We're not overloaded by stress, but for a lot of us, we feel like it's weakness, so we avoid it. Like, we don't, we don't want to cry, we don't want to show that weakness. It's like, yo, it's actually there to help you, not to hurt you.

That's big. I've never heard that before. Yeah, I heard about like crying as a way to release, release your emotions. And, um, I've done a lot of therapy, so like I'm very it's kind of like I have this knowledge, but I don't really apply that knowledge a lot of times just because I know that, like, crying is very good for you because you can release your emotions. It's something that you will feel better after, right? And especially when it comes down to, like, vulnerable moments. But a lot of times I'm like, you ain't going to see me cry.

But why?

I don't know. I think it's something that's like— it's like protection mechanism because it's like, if you're going to— I think what it is is a lot of times if I'm very logical, so I'm very calculated with things that I do. So I know if I do this, I know that the next logical step, this can follow. And so a lot of times, especially when I'm arguing with somebody or having disagreements, I'm like, the one thing I cannot let them do is see my weakness, weakness, vulnerability, because they're going to use that against me.

They're going to weaponize it. Yeah. Yes.

And I think that's the biggest thing about vulnerability and emotions to the point where it's like, ooh, you're going to— because then, you know, when they do it, it hurts even more because you're like, damn, I let you in. And then like, you're going to use that against me?

Yeah. Like, you're going to tease me? Do you remember the first moment where you made an inner vow to yourself to say, I'm no longer going to allow people to see me cry?

Ooh, I think I think I just come from a culture where it was just not allowed. It was not welcomed. It was not— why are you crying? Wipe your tears off. Why are you crying? Life is so much more complex than this. What you're going through is nothing. It's all bullshit. And then I kind of adopted that mentality of nothing is bigger than life. Everything is salvageable. You can fix things. It's not that hard. You can just You know, nothing is at the end of the day that serious.

Do you know, uh, that what you just described as something that you were conditioned, um, to do from the time you were very young is what most men in America are conditioned to do? Holding their emotions, suck it up, boys don't cry, men don't cry, men don't show emotions, emotions are a sign of weakness. And all of these things. And so when you, when you look at the, when you look at the statistics around suicide, men are dying by suicide at an alarmingly higher rate than women in this country. And it's because they don't have a safe space to actually express their emotions. So a couple of years ago, as I was thinking about like what I embody, because I'm like, yo, like I'm a man, and it's not that I just go around crying all the time, but like, if I am moved to tears, like, I will shed a few tears, and I won't— like, I don't— I'm not embarrassed by it. Like, it is what it is. I'm very comfortable in that emotion. I'm very comfortable being honest, open, and transparent. I'm very honest about my journey, about my past, about my pain, about my failures, about my struggles, about my inconsistencies. I'm very honest about it. I was like, man, what would I call this? And I coined this term masculine vulnerability. Masculine vulnerability, right? Specifically because it's very difficult for men to be vulnerable.

Yeah.

But I believe that at the place where we are most vulnerable, we find the most healing. Mm-hmm. I'll use, I'll use an example. Let's say that I'm feeling pain in my body.

Mm-hmm.

If I'm feeling pain in my body and I go to the doctor and I'm too proud to tell him I have pain in my side. That's actually vulnerable, right? Like, yo, like, I want to let you know, doctor, it's probably something that you can't see right now, but I'm actually experiencing pain in my side. I can actually get the help that I need by being honest about where I'm hurting. Now, that's true for the body. How much more true is that for our emotions? Same, right? To, like, sit in front of someone and to say, listen, I need help. Yo, I'm dealing with depression. I've been thinking about ending it all, right? And I need help. And having someone who's skilled enough to diagnose what's going on and can help me treat it, right? And so that's the reason why I'm so passionate about being in touch with emotions, because I know that it can save lives, right? Like it can, I feel like at the moment where I became honest about where I was is where I began to find like the healing that I needed. So I'm like big on it. And it's not just for men, for everybody. But I know that specifically in this country, men struggle with it a lot.

No, it for sure is. And I think I've always questioned, like, why do I relate to men so much? Like, I can have a much more— I don't even know if it's like easier conversation or like a much more— I can be very like, I relate to men so much.

And not specifically men, or is it like Black men?

Well, I only talk to Black men. Okay.

I understand. I understand.

And it's something, it's always like we can always have a conversation. And sometimes, like, they— and I've been told that many times, that they feel comfortable with me, that it's like, it's not like they don't feel like attacked, they don't feel judged, they don't feel judged. I don't, you know, and I just listen to them. And it's like, I think because I understand what they're— I'm not a man, but as far as like certain experiences, I understand what they're going through. Because a lot of times I'm like, well, I'm dealing with the same thing. Like, yeah, I'm a woman, but I'm going through the same experience. And sometimes I'm just like, even if I have to think about the pressure that men have, societal pressure that they have. It's a lot. Like, you have to live life being a perfect human being no matter what, in any position. And you have to be the one that's strong, the one that provides, that protects, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, but you're also human at the same time. So a lot of times it's like, yeah, I get it. But, you know, it's like, I don't necessarily agree with it because at the end of the day, we're all humans. Like, we all go and we all have emotions. We have different designs, but it's not to say that, like, oh, a man is supposed to do that, a woman is supposed to do that. That's just such an interesting statement that people are making. And then I think another part, as far as the depression that you said, there's been a couple of times that I remember, because I'm very prone to depression. I'm very prone to anxiety. Anxiety, I've had it since I was a kid, and I didn't even know that that was called anxiety. I thought it was just a normal state of being until 2020.. And I remember one time I shared something with my friend and she was like, well, you know, other people have it way harder than you. Other people do this. Like, you know, think about like other countries, this and this and this. And so like comparison to other things. And I'm like, but that's me going through this experience right now. And like, now I have to shut that down and think about other things. And like, that makes me even more sad because they have it even worse than me.

Mm-hmm.

So it's like, now I'm in the spiral, in the loop of like sadness of like, this is like, is it going to get better? Is it not going to get worse? Like, where are we, where are we going with this?

Yeah, I think, I think, uh, I think— so I'm sorry that you experienced that. I'm sorry that she was not, or he was not, a safe space. I'm not sure. You said it's a girl.

It was a girl.

Yeah, I'm sorry that she wasn't a safe space. When it comes to vulnerability, um, it really is about finding the right people that you can bear your soul like in front of— now I do it in front of the world, but it's because I don't care, right? Like I'm at a place in my life where I don't really care what anybody thinks about it. I know that this is healthy for me. But when it comes to like deeply intimate things or struggles or whatever the case may be, it's about having safety in people where you can, you can go to them and you know that they're a safe space. And you judge that by testing people a little bit. Maybe, maybe sharing something that may not be too deep, but it's like vulnerable and just seeing how they handle it, you know what I'm saying? And then the next time taking a step further and see how they handle it, you know what I'm saying? And so, um, I know how sharing with the wrong person can cause someone to shut down, you know what I'm saying? And feel like, oh, vulnerability is not for me, it doesn't work, right? But there are spaces and there are people that are safe enough to be able to share your heart with.

What would you say is the proper way to handle someone's vulnerability?

Well, let's think about the fear associated with somebody being vulnerable. When someone is vulnerable, they feel like they'll be judged. They feel like they'll be looked at as weak. Those are two really big ones. So for me, whenever I create a safe space for someone, I want them to understand that nothing that you say is going to cause me to judge you. And nothing that you say is going to cause me to love you less. So that's the first thing. Um, secondly, I like to communicate to people and help them understand that you don't have to be afraid here. I'm not here to hurt you. I only want to help you, you know what I'm saying? I only want to create a soft space for you to land. And I feel like when people understand that, and when people tell us things that may be, um, personal, deeply personal, deeply intimate like to honor that, to really do, to really be that safe space. Right. And I feel like when we do that, then people will continue to open up.

Mm-hmm. Because I feel like a lot of times when you do open up in front of somebody and if you share some things, you would, I guess, like it's an expectation that like it's going to be safe and it's not going to be used against you.

Sure.

And then all of a sudden when there is like a minor argument, especially when it's personal stuff, like, right, like especially if it's, if I'm sharing something vulnerable and it has something to do with that specific person, then that's an extra layer of fear that, hey, now you're going to reject me because of this and that. And especially, I think in today's world, people treat things as black and white because, again, there's social media that tells them that, oh, this is messed up. You don't do this. In your scenario, he cheated. He's a bad guy. Or whatever the narrative can be, you're going to put a label on it because America loves labeling people. I've said it again and again. It's always black, white. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's tall, short. It has something to do with description of a person, of the physical appearance, but also like of their character. And it's like one word that's going to define that person, right? Which is— I don't think it's a reality of the world. Like, it's not. You are not just like, yes, okay, my experience is my experience. I did that. But at the same time, there's so much more that I've done. Like, I've been going in literally healing people through the word of God, through faith, through conversations, through whatever it is. But people tend to overlook that.

Yeah. You know, so, um, it is unfortunate that a lot of times people like to label people based upon their largest failure, right? Yeah. Um, but at the end of the day, what someone does is not indicative of necessarily who they are, right? Um, I think that we all go through seasons. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And so some seasons are brighter than others, some seasons are darker than others. I think it's about how we respond to those seasons. And so, uh, I'm very careful never to label myself based upon a season of my life, you know what I'm saying? Um, even if other people do it. And I think it's difficult for a lot of people not to judge, you know. Um, but at the same time, um, whether they judge or not, like I will never allow someone else's opinion of me to become my reality. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I think that's very big. People like, it's like this whole, what is it called? The book is called The 48 Laws of Power, where people want to play the manipulation games because everything has become a game these days. Like literally everything. And that's why I think, you know, even when we were talking about like dating and relationships, I told you, I don't know if I can do this because I don't know if people are playing games or if people are for real. And it's like you're playing with something that's so sacred to so many people. And it's just like, now we turn this into like, oh yeah, let's do the, you know, let's do the no contact for 2 days. Let me respond in 2 hours. Like, it's some shit that I'm like, well, how did we even come up with all this? Like, that's like torture tactics. Instead of being like, I don't know how— when love became just a game.

Yeah. Yeah, I think for a lot of people, um, the reason why they play games is because they want leverage, right? That's, that's the reason why people play games. So you think about the 48 Laws of Power, it was literally written to give you leverage in the marketplace, leverage around people, um, you know, of influence. Like, it's literally written to give you leverage, right? Um, but what happened to just having genuine connections? You know what I'm saying? What happened to love just being real? You know what I'm saying? What happens to relationships without motive? I think, I think, um, that's really what's lost right now.

I think what it is, even like sometimes with me when I meet somebody, right, like the first connection, great connection, great chemistry, like now you're like, oh, maybe I like this person, and then you kind of don't know them. And that's after that first initial spark. Then it comes this thought like, oh, is this person playing with me? Is this person serious? Is this person like a fuckboy? Is he going to screw me over? Or does he just want to have sex with me? Or does he actually see me for who I am? And so I think it's a fear of a lot of women when they go into dating, because now we don't know. We don't know if he's married. We don't know if he's in a relationship, if he's actually single. Like sometimes I find myself asking, are you actually single? Like 5 times.

And what do they say?

Yeah, I'm single.

Every time.

Of course.

Even if they're not single.

Yeah, it's always they're single.

Yeah.

So how— what do we do?

I mean, I think, uh, how's your discernment? How's your discernment? Like, how's your, um, or you might call it intuition.

I think my intuition is pretty good. My intuition is fairly, fairly good. But sometimes I tend to shut it down and I tend to question it because I think people call it delusional. Because sometimes I'm like, I don't want to be delusional because there will be people that I'm like, damn, I can see a future with this person. And then I'll be like, I don't even know this person. Why am I going that way? But that would be the initial thought. Like I would have some sort of picture in my mind, like some something, and I'm like, but that's not the reality. Like, calm down, come back to earth.

Do you fall quickly for people?

Yeah, I fall quickly.

Yeah.

What's my diagnosis?

Like, what do I do? I'm not trying to diagnose you. I'm just saying that this is one thing I can tell you about intuition. You know, even when I was less close to God, and I feel like I'm still on that, on a journey to be as close as I want to be, but I feel like I'm striving, right? My intuition used to be on point at least 90% of the time, right? And I feel like those are good averages, you feel what I'm saying? Like, if, if, you know, 90 to 95% of the time if your intuition is on point, when something was off and my gut would tell me that something was off, like 9 times out of 10 something was off. So I've just learned to Trust my intuition. Like, so a lot of times, even if you really like someone, you can really like them and then something inside is saying like, yo, something is off. Or you could really like them, but something inside is saying this person is not being all the way truthful, right? Like, my whole thing is like, you gotta— I stand 10 toes down on my intuition because it's tried to save me so many times that I've disregarded it, right? You feel what I'm saying? So many times where I was just like, nah, like, they're telling me one thing, my intuition is telling me another, and I trusted them over my intuition. I betrayed myself. Yeah, only to find out down the line that everything that you thought, everything that you felt was spot on. So I, you know, I tell people all the time, like, it's there for a reason. And I think that there's something very spiritual about our intuition as well. Like, I believe that a lot of times— yes, I believe that a lot of times it's God trying to warn us before we walk into something that could destroy us. But because we want what we want we disregard it, right? We want that momentary satisfaction. We want the momentary pleasure. We want the feeling. We want the vibes. We want the energy. We want the possibility.

Dr. Nate!

No, real life, real life. You diagnosing me now? No, real life, real life. And so, and so what I'm saying is like, sometimes when we get played, we have to take a look in the mirror.

Yeah.

Say, yo, what did I do to enable this? All right, like, What did I do to dishonor my own intuition? What did I do to dishonor my own heart to find myself in this position? You know what I'm saying? I'll tell you a story. I was, um, I was, uh, talking to a girl. This is a, this is a couple years ago. I was talking to a girl and I mean, we had, we had, we were, we were having a good time, you know what I'm saying? Doing all the things that we weren't supposed to be doing. You know what I said?

That I'm just saying, what does that mean?

I'm just saying that we were, we were moving very quickly, you know what I'm saying? Weren't really in a relationship, but we were in a relationship. Very toxic. Um, toxic energy, toxic sex.

Like, what was toxic? Like, what's— like, right now is the Holy Spirit to me. So like, what's toxic?

I'm the Holy Spirit too. Yes.

What's a Holy Spirit toxic, Nate?

No, no, I'm not saying that. I was— I'm saying that I was in a situation where, um, my intuition was telling me that this person was not good for me. But I disregarded my intuition and I trusted what they said. When my intuition was telling me, oh, this person is lying, and I would call certain things out, they would gaslight me and I would trust them only to find out down the road that it was true, what I felt. And then those things can become even cloudier when you are intimate with someone, right? So we were very deeply intimate with each other, right? And so with that, you begin to discard, you just begin to disregard your intuition even more. The sex is great, the vibes are good. Whatever the case may be, right? And it wasn't until I realized how much of my time I wasted, how much of my energy, my attention, my resources I wasted pouring into someone that I knew was not good for me from the beginning, but I betrayed my own intuition in order to put myself in a situation with them. It's like, yo, I told myself I'm not doing that anymore. I'm just not doing it anymore. It's not worth it.

What is it that people call like friends with benefits? Is that what it was?

That's what— yeah, I mean, it was, it was that for a period, and then we were together with her for like 3 or 4 days, and then I found out, found out that she was lying about some other stuff, and I broke up with her. But then I still dealt with her for like a year, dealt with her for maybe 9 months after that, um, because the sex was great and, you know what I'm saying, the vibes were fun when things were good, right? But when things were bad, they were really bad. There was arguments and there was, you know what I'm saying, all kinds of stuff that just wasn't conducive for them, for the life that I was creating for myself.

So does that mean that when we date, does that mean that every every interaction is going to end in a relationship? Or do we need to date with an intent to be in a relationship? Or how does that work? Because sometimes you can have experiences with somebody and it's like you might even go to the point of having sex with them, but then kind of figure out, I don't know if it's going to work or not. Is it going to be like a situationship? Is it going to be friends with benefits? Or are we meant to date with intention to be in a relationship?

Yeah, so I think that, um, I think that dating is supposed to be an opportunity for us to discover. It's kind of like an interview process, is what I say. When you go on dates, and there are different stages of dating, right? There's, um, dating non-exclusively. So y'all are putting yourselves around each other to see what the vibes are like, what the chemistry is like. You're having conversations about compatibility, you know what I'm saying? Um, the problem is that for a lot of people in the dating stage, we give them everything that we would give them in a relationship. We give them all of our hopes, all of our dreams, all of our secrets. We give them our body, we give them our mind. And so this clouds our ability to actually make an informed decision about whether this person is great for us because we're already giving them everything that we would give them in a relationship anyway.

But hold up, for me, a relation— like, that dating stage is a prequel to what's going to happen in a relationship. So if I If I'm dating somebody and if I can't be myself, if I can't share some secrets, if I can't— if I don't know if the sex is going to be great, so like, I don't know what I'm going in with into a relationship. So like, that's my way of thinking. It's kind of like, you know how they say like, you got to test drive the car before you buy it? So it's kind of like, if I— if we're dating and this is how you are, I don't expect it to magically change when we're in a relationship. So like, to me, I want to see how you going to show up when you are in a relationship, and I'm going to show up how I'm going to be in a relationship because that's what we're trying to do.

No, I got you. Yeah, I think, I think that a lot of times what happens though is all of those things that you mentioned prevent us from actually making an informed decision because we've already intertwined our souls. Okay. And so because we've already intertwined our souls, um, even if this person is not a good fit for us we ignore a lot of the red flags because we're already deeply connected. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what's supposed to be an interview process, it's almost like— imagine, imagine going on an interview, but they have you working before you're even paid.

Happens a lot, right?

Like, imagine, imagine, imagine, imagine you are— you're going on an interview because you want a particular job. Or you think you want a particular job, and but instead of, but instead of you interviewing, they actually give you the job but they don't pay you. So you're working for free. It's almost like when I say that, I'm saying like you're working, um, without the commitment from them. Yeah, right, to give you the things that you need, you know. And so it's just, it's, it's, it could be wild. And, and I'm not saying this from a place of judgment because I've, I've done it the wrong way before too. You know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, I think it's just, again, like, I don't know what's the right or wrong way to date. I just, that's why I just keep saying I don't think I'm meant for it because I don't really know at this point what to do with it. It's like, at the same time, you know, when you're dealing with, when you're dating somebody, you know, I get it, it's an interview process, but I can't just sit here and torture you with questions just so I can get answers and then I don't even know what to do with them. And sometimes I feel like, especially men, they're very reluctant to that idea of like being questioned. And because sometimes, you know, you can say something, but then reality hits, life hits, and then you might operate in a completely different way, you know.

Yeah, for sure.

So it's like you can say certain things, you can put out your expectations there, and then a lot of times they might not meet your expectations.

Yeah, I think when we're getting to know people though, it's much less about what they say. And I think it's much more about patterns, habits, integrity. If they do say something, do their actions match what they're saying? Are they people of their word? Are they honorable? Like, do they live by principles? Do they live by a code? Like, these are things that we should be identifying when it comes to someone that we are thinking about spending a portion of our life with. Instead, though, we make it about fun. We make it about energy, we make it about chemistry, which those things are important. But I think that the more important things are things that have to do with like a person's integrity, their moral compass, you know what I'm saying? And that's what we miss out on, I think, a lot of time.

Well, I think also where we go left is with this whole idea of like, oh, where he's going to take me on a first date, you know, like crazy how much money he's making. And not that again, I don't— I think that financial security is very important. Important, especially for me. It's very important just because that's where I strive to be. And so I want to make sure that my man who's with me is going to be on that level, well, much higher level than me, because I don't expect my man to be on the same financial level just because I believe that a man's supposed to make a little more. I would assume so. Fight me all you want. But yeah, I believe in that. But the whole idea of like, oh, the first date is going to be this and it's got to be with flowers and it's got to be with like him picking you up and doing all this and that. And I'm just like, bro, this is so much. Why are we doing this for show? Because that's what it sounds like to me, you know, like he can do all these grand gestures, but he can be the worst person ever.

100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think there's so many relationship gurus that tell people, you know, you know, don't date a guy if he's not like this. Don't date a girl if she's not like this. And there's so many different ways that relationships evolve and grow and progress, right? He might, he might not have taken her to Ruth's Chris on the first date, right? But he's a genuine guy. He actually genuinely has great intentions for her and wants to get to know her.

Have you been to Ruth's Chris? I'm like, it's— what the hell is special about that place?

I'm just, I'm just using that.

I'm sorry, it's just how much I go to Cheesecake Factory. I think it's so much better than Ruth's I'm sorry, I apologize.

Well, you know, recently, like, some of those restaurants came up under scrutiny. I'm sure, right? A lot of, a lot of, a lot of, uh, women were saying, like, if a guy wanted to take her to Cheesecake Factory on the first date, like, she— he's a brokey and she wouldn't do it.

I want my chocolate bread with butter. I'm sorry, I want my avocado egg rolls.

Like, fellas, you hear that? She said that she's down. She's down for the Cheesecake Factory date.

I think the older I get, the more I'm like, I lowkey would love to just stay at home and just have a date when we're literally just in our hoodies and sweatpants and just having a normal conversation without all of this grand stuff around us, without spending hundreds and thousands of dollars, but sitting down and having a very good conversation and see if we can even have those. Do we even vibe with each other on that level? Because to me, I know for me, my love language is conversations. And I want to have deep spiritual conversations. If I can't have those, if I can't be on the phone with you for whether it's an hour or two, and then we're just going into it and we're trying to explore life and explore our minds. It don't matter where we at. Ruth's Chris, Cheesecake Factory, Hole in the Wall. I don't care where we are. If we can't do that and without any alcohol, without none of that, if we can just have that, like, I don't think I can even be around that person.

So you're what they call a sapiosexual?

Probably. Yeah. Like, I love— to me, it's like conversations. I just— it's— I feel like the best times for me is when I can have a conversation. That's why I wanted to have— like, to me, this is so fun to do. Like, I think it's the best thing in the world because, like, you can literally just sit down and talk to each other.

Yeah.

And I feel like you get to know people when you do podcasts, especially because it's like such an intimate environment, especially like here, you know.

We don't have many people out here, so it's like literally like 4 of us in the room. 4 of us in the room, right?

And it's like You can have eye contact with a person and like you can ask them questions. Some people are showmen, showwomen, whatever that is, because a lot of times cameras are on, you know, they have their persona. But majority of time, I feel like I've been very blessed with people who come on my show and they're very— they're much themselves.

Yeah, for sure.

Or at some point I get out like their real self, you know, because I don't know, I just— I don't know. I think I have that— you have a godly vibe around you. I have that.

Yo, what is this? Explain. What do you mean by this when you say I have this godly vibe around me? Like, what is it?

I think it's like, um, I don't know, when I think of you or like when I see you, it's like, okay, like as if we're gonna have a Bible study.

Yo, that's crazy.

I don't know what to say. Like, it's like as if— I don't know what it is. It's like, but I don't think it's in a very religious way. I think it's in a very good— you don't see that often because many men are not like that. Many men are, you know, we want hoes, we want to, you know, go out and just hit and whatever. Like, that's their lifestyle and that's what they want. But I also know that that's a lot of deflection. That's— they're deflecting. They're not actually, you know, like, I don't imagine that a man's only concern is women and like how many times they have sex with different women. I don't think that that's a normal reality of a man?

I do.

You think? Oh, why?

I think for a lot of men, I think a lot of men are driven by their own desires and lusts, right? Like their own vices. And so for a lot of men, their vice is women, right? Like I had a stage in my life where my vice was women. Like that's where I would go to find safety. That's where I would go to find comfort. That's where I would go when I felt low to feel high again. Like, it was— that was my addiction, right? My thing was never alcohol, it was never drugs, it was never a desire for power or fame. Like, I just enjoyed being in the presence of a woman. I enjoy exploring the nuances of who she is and all of those things. I enjoyed exploring the body and all of that, right? Um, um, and, and I would do it all the time, you feel what I'm saying? But then I realized that that thing, that couldn't satisfy a void that exists in my soul. Hmm. You know, what happens when you've been with so many women and when you're done, you still feel the same that you did before you dealt with them? What happens when you go chasing the most beautiful women and you find it, you find them and you capture their attention and you capture their admiration and you explore their body. And then when you're done, you still leave feeling the same. It's like, These are temporal things that can never really satisfy the void that exists in our soul. And once you realize it, you just realize that you're chasing the wind, you know? And then not only that, you realize that you're contributing to the damage, um, that they're already experiencing in their life because they want something more from you, but you don't have the capacity to give it.

Hmm.

Because you're in exploration mode, you don't have the capacity to actually commit because you're in exploration mode. You're looking for the next hit. Which is the next woman, you know what I'm saying? And so I don't know. I think, I think—

But you got out of that stage. So how did you, how did you come to that? Like, and I know what you're saying because I feel like we, we go through those stages or seasons of our lives. You know, I've gone through a season where all I was doing was going out and I thought it was like the best thing in the world. But then you come home and you're just empty and it's like, and then you do it again next weekend and you're just empty. It's like you meet all these people, you empty. It's still, it's still the same. It's like it just doesn't change.

Facts. Um, I had to sit back and identify what my soul wounds were. Uh, my boy Robert is actually here. He is so funny because he, he has a whole platform that just focuses on soul wounds, and we ended up meeting years after I began to explore some of those soul wounds, you know, that, that I had. Um, I think that he— in talking to him, he just gave me language some additional language for it, but just places in me that I was trying to medicate. Hmm.

How did you discover it? Like, do you— okay, you sit down with yourself. What are you thinking? What are you doing? How do you do that? Because I think like, when we speak of manifesting, soul, and all of that, for a lot of people, it's something— and I've said it again and again— it's something so grand, they can't understand how to physically or mentally touch it. So what do you do? Like, you're doing, you're doing soul searching. How does that show up? Like, is it you writing down, talking?

Yeah. Um, you know, one of the things that I, that I, I like to do when— because I still get the itch sometimes, right? I still get the itch sometimes to explore. No, I do. I think I think just because I don't indulge as much— you got too excited about that. That's kind of crazy. I still get the itch sometimes, but when I do, a lot of times I will— I'll stop and I'll say, okay, what am I feeling right now? Like, what is it that I'm feeling right now in this moment that's causing me to want to go and chase this particular high? Or experience this particular feeling, right? And so it's almost like reverse engineering it, right? So sometimes it could be stress, right? Stress might be one, right? Like, I'm— I got a lot of different things going on. I'm stressed out and I just want to escape. Like, I just want to find, like, a release from all the different things that I have going on right now. I don't want to think about those things. I want to just go escape. Okay, I've identified, okay, that stress is a trigger. Or if I have a deep desire to begin to explore in a way that I used to, I may stop and say, okay, what am I— what am I feeling right now? Right? And I kind of reverse engineer, oh, I'm— I feel really lonely right now. Like, I realized that I haven't really felt deep connection in a while, and I'm actually craving connection. Maybe it's not a woman's body that I'm craving. Maybe it's the intimacy of the soul. Maybe I have a desire to feel seen, you know what I'm saying? Heard, understood, and loved. But the way that my body and my mind is processing that is saying, oh, you need to hit something else. You need to cuddle with somebody. You need to be in the presence of a beautiful woman. Like, no, like that won't really satisfy, right? Like I gotta go to the root of what it is. So it's really about like, when you feel yourself deeply craving a vice, stopping and saying, aside from that, aside from that vice that I think I want, what is it that I really want right now? For a lot of people, they, they, um, they're battling loneliness. A lot of people, they're battling, um, feelings of being unloved. They feel deeply unloved, right? They feel uncared for. They feel unheard, they feel unseen. For some people, they're experiencing grief. I can tell you that grief is a big one. Grief is a huge one. Like, if you've ever dealt with like any type of deep grief.

Oh yeah.

Like it will lead you to some dark places. It will lead you to go searching for satisfaction in so many places that can't fulfill you because you're actually just You're grieving, you're, you're in pain. You feel what I'm saying? So it's that, that was kind of like my journey. I just, whenever I would have a deep urge, like I want to hit something, like I want to, or I want to experience this, I want to experience that. Okay, what is the root feeling?

Mm-hmm.

Like, man, like, what am I really feeling right now? Depression is another one, right? A lot of people mask depression through sexuality. Mm-hmm. Because at least for a moment I can forget about what I'm feeling. I could forget about the fact that I'm, I'm, uh, yeah, I'm depressed. So yeah, I would say that it's just being self-aware enough to, to like ask yourself a deeper question. What else am I feeling right now that could be triggering the desire? You could be depressed and really get horny because you're depressed, or you could be lonely and get horny because you're, you're lonely, or you could be, you know, it's, it's, it's deep. It really is deep.

So when you do feel like, okay, let's say you identify that you're very lonely, for example. So what do you do in that case? Like, you know, okay, I think it's coming from me feeling loneliness right now. So how do you personally solve that?

Yeah. So there are a couple different ways to do it. I'm, I'm going to tell you what has been most effective for me. You know that I obviously, everybody knows that I'm a man of faith at this point, right? Because But there is loneliness that can be, uh, remedied with people, right? Like, so like going, going to other people, putting yourself around people that truly love you, that really care for you, you know what I'm saying? Um, a lot of times this is in the form of like friendships, beautiful friendships that you have where, you know, there are no ulterior motives. But you need to put yourself around somebody that knows likes, trusts you, and vice versa. Um, but I found that deeper levels of loneliness, it, it takes place on a spiritual level. It's like, I believe that God is— God is our source, right? And so when you consider that, um, there is a, there is a level of loneliness that only God can actually feel. He can only— he's the only one that can fix right? He created us. He created our emotions. And it's like a God-sized spiritual void that exists in us when we're not really closely connected with God. And so it's like we can go searching, like, through the world for satisfaction, other places. And it's really because we're disconnected from our source that we feel deep loneliness, anguish, depression, so forth and so on. So like, there are times where I'll just be still and I'll just talk to God. I'm just like, God, I really just want to feel I want to feel that you care for me. I want to feel that you're near. And in that process, like, I feel like when we're honest with God like that, he'll begin to fill those spaces in us that are void.

Yeah. Or like, you would be— something is going to happen. It's all— it always works like that.

Yeah.

And I think it goes back to that, what I call intuition for me, and I guess like discernment or whatever you want to call it. Because sometimes, like, sometimes I wouldn't even notice I would speak some words, and then I wouldn't even know that that's about me. And then it just happens. Or I think it also goes down to self-doubt and belief in yourself, because I think that's something that I've been battling with for a very long time. Even though people can't tell, they see, they're like, oh, she's a beautiful girl. She's this, she's that. But it's like, sometimes I don't feel that. Sometimes I don't think that I'm doing good. Sometimes I don't think that I'm doing enough. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm too lazy. I'm too this, too that. So it's a lot of self-hate towards me. And so it's It's true that you really have to connect with the source because then it's like, like I told you today, like, I feel like it's like a devil on my shoulder that's just been like speaking into existence. And then like sometimes you just got to snatch it out of yourself because you just get taken away from that light side and go into the darkness. And it's the easiest thing to do to fall into the darkness.

Yeah, for sure.

Because again, negative is something that's going to attract regardless.

Right. For sure. And then a lot of times too, like when we're alone with ourselves and we feel a lot of those deeply depressive moments, seasons, or whatever the case may be, it's like the depression can cause lack of motivation, and then the lack of motivation can contribute to the depression, to your point. Because it's like, I'm depressed, I don't really feel like doing anything, and then because I don't— I'm not doing anything, I'm more depressed because I'm not getting anything done. And so it's like this cycle.

Yeah.

Um, but I always— I just always try to remember, like, A lot of times the negative thoughts that we have about ourselves are not our thoughts. Hmm.

Whose thoughts are those?

They're thoughts that have been planted in us by spirits that are, that are not for us. I truly believe that. Right. And so a lot of times it's really like about reminding ourselves of what God really says about us, like what he thinks about us, you know what I'm saying? And there's so many there's so many— I'm a Christian, I believe in Jesus, I'm a Christian. Um, there are so many like, uh, sayings in the Bible that remind us about like how God really feels about us, you know what I'm saying? Um, like his desire to give us hope in the future, you know what I'm saying? His desires for us are good and not evil, you know what I'm saying? To give us hope in the future, to give us an expected end, like things that are just really hopeful so that when, when my mind may say you're not doing enough, you're not good enough, you know what I'm saying? Um, you're not gonna make it, you're gonna fail, right? Well, a lot of times those, those voices, those are lies. I just have to remind myself of what God said about me because he created me. Like, I have to go back to the manufacturer and say, yo, he created me for a purpose. He created me to succeed. He did not create me to fail. He did not create for me to have lack, you know what I'm saying? And like, when that happens, it's like, oh yeah, like, I've been believing a lie. This whole time, you know what I'm saying? But I've been, I've been through those seasons. Let me tell you, let me tell you about a season that I, I went through. Um, after my divorce, I thought it was all over with, right? For the people that don't know my story, uh, I was married for 5 years. I was a horrible husband. Um, you know, you wait your whole life to get married, you think you're going to be a great, a great spouse, and then you get into the, the relationship, you get into the marriage, you get punched in the mouth. Not literally, but I'm just saying you get punched in the mouth.

I mean, that's how it feels.

Exactly. It feels that way, right? And so in that process, um, I made so many decisions that I wasn't proud of. I felt like I married the wrong person. I was extremely apathetic in my relationship. By year 3 of my marriage, we were sleeping in separate bedrooms. We didn't have sex for the last 2 years of our marriage. And in that process, I began to find fulfillment, or search for fulfillment, in other places. Again, we talk about those voids, right? Those those voids, I began to search for fulfillment in other places. Just communicating with women that I shouldn't have been communicating with and, you know, having sexual contact. I know we were at the table—

Do you mind defining the sexual contact?

It's all good. Because like when I talk about it, people think that I was out here knocking down a bunch of people because that's what you thought, right?

That's what I thought.

Yeah. No, it was just— it was more like sexual— like it was more like foreplay type of things, right? Like, right. You know, a little head here and there, stuff like that, right?

From different people.

Which again, I think I was so You taking a bath?

In my mind, I thought you were like piping them down with threesomes and like foursomes and just going to sex clubs and stuff.

No, no, I get it. But the reason why I talk about it as extremely as I do is because regardless of how minimal it may seem, it was still a compromise of the vows.

Right.

Right. But I can understand how because of the way I talk about it, it would seem like I was just out here. But I feel like even what I did was—

I mean, regardless, it's still hurtful to a woman because you betrayed her and you went behind her back. And so regardless if you don't have sex or anything, it's just as hurtful. So yeah, I get it for sure, for sure.

So I ended up— my marriage, uh, ended. I filed for divorce. My marriage ended. And along with my marriage ending, my reputation was also in the ground, like it was in a hole, right? Because all of my life I've lived up to a standard, right, that in my marriage I could not uphold. Right? And, um, after divorce and my reputation being just completely damaged, I slipped into the darkest depression. I felt like my life was over. Remember I was telling you about— yeah, the voices that we hear or the thoughts that creep into our mind that are not like God. I thought my life was over. I thought, you know, no one ever trusts you again, you know what I'm saying? Um, and you know, typically how women too view someone who has cheated before, like they view someone who's committed adultery or has cheated as like, we're the scum of the earth, right? This is what society puts on us, right? The scarlet letter. I felt like I was walking around with the scarlet letter on my chest and I slipped into the deepest depression.

How were your friends and like your family?

I had so many friends that turned their backs on me. I had so many friends, friends that sided with her because I was the one that was most wrong. And so naturally, when you go through a relational separation, people feel a need to choose sides. And so a lot of times they'll choose the side of the woman, especially if she is the quote-unquote victim.

Yeah.

Right. And so I lost friends, people that I had been there for my whole life, people that I gave a place to stay, people that I gave food to eat. They ended up siding with her. And I slipped into a deep depression. How did I medicate that depression though? Through women.

Mm-hmm.

Right. It was just another cycle. It was like, yo, I'm depressed, I'm hurt, I'm lonely because my friends walked away. And I went to the vice that I knew, which was women. And it wasn't until I— so that was in— that was, uh, the year later. A year later, my dad died. And I remember being with him the day that he died, and I saw him die with so many secrets and different things like that. And I remember when he died I told myself, Nate, you got to show up as a better man. Like, my dad died at 56, you know what I'm saying? Young, right? And you know, I'm mourning the death of my dad, I'm mourning the divorce, but inside I'm like, yo, God has more for you, Nate. Like, you got to show up as a better man. And it was at that moment that I began to be like transparent about my, my journey, you know what I'm saying? I began to be vulnerable about my pain, even, you know, some moments of depression and, you know, the part that I played in the demise of my marriage. And I just began to be honest about that. You know what I'm saying? And there's a, there's a, there's a verse in the Bible that talks about how God is close to those who acknowledge their own frailties and, and identify that they need him, right? Like God is close to those that can be honest about the fact that, yo, I don't have it all figured out. I'm walking through life. I have these struggles. I have depression. I have this, I have that, you know what I'm saying? And I really need God in order to be able to remedy that. And so I think that it was that acknowledgement through transparency that allowed me to begin to go on this journey of reconnecting with God. You know what I'm saying?

When you went through that, 'cause, and I understand, I get where you're coming from, but this is, and this is what I told you before too, life is not perfect. We're not perfect. Did you guys come together? Did you have a conversation about, you know, what both sides did, or it was only coming from you that you cheated, you ended the marriage, so now everything was kind of like on you, the full accountability was on you. Was there ever coming from the other side? Or you didn't feel like it was even necessary because of the matter of fact?

Yeah, I didn't feel like it was necessary because I feel like the relationship ended long before it actually ended.

Okay.

And so for me, I felt, I felt that the remedy was to just exit the relationship, right? Um, and also I'll say that I really believe very deeply in accountability. So regardless of what her part was in it, I knew what my part was, and that's the part that I need to take accountability for. Now she may be doing her own work in terms of like soul searching and identifying if there was any any part of it that she played, but I just knew that I was the most, most in the wrong.

And so, do you know where, at what point you guys went wrong? Like, because again, marriage is a two-way street. It's two people in one pod. And I don't believe that it's only your fault that you were a horrible man. And I'm not saying that she's a horrible woman. I don't know that person, but I'm just saying that I think it's, it's a It's something where the work stopped from both ends.

You know, the first year of my marriage, I felt like it wasn't going to— we weren't going to make it.

Why?

It was just— I felt like we weren't connected in a lot of ways. I had felt like— I felt like I had married the wrong person. Like, we moved very quickly when I got— when I got married. I married the person that I was dating at the time, and I felt like I was at a stage in my life where I was ready to be married. Um, in hindsight, you know, I just feel like we moved very, very quickly and we didn't—

was it because society tells you you need to be married in your 30s?

No, I just felt like I was ready to be married. You felt like, okay, yeah, yeah, I felt like I was at a place where I'm like, you know, I don't, I don't want to be out here, I don't want to be a bachelor forever. Like, this is a good woman, let me, let me go ahead and commit to her, you know what I'm saying? Um, but yeah, I felt in the first year of our marriage that we weren't gonna make it.

Um, What were the indicators? How did you know? What were the— what was the discernment there?

Yeah, we struggled to have like conversations. We enjoyed a lot of our alone time, like just different things that are probably not healthy for marriage, you know what I'm saying?

What'd you feel like when you can't have a conversation? Because I feel like I have the same problem. I can talk here, I can have all conversations that we want, but when it comes down to relationships when it comes down to like having a conversation, you know, like a more serious conversation. I have a very hard time doing that when it comes down to a relationship where I'm involved.

And your question was what?

Like, how do you— what did you feel like when you couldn't have a conversation? What was it like? You were—

I was just disconnected. I just felt disconnected. I felt misunderstood. She probably felt misunderstood as well, right? There was just a it was a blockage, right? Um, and some of it could have been spiritual, right? Some of it could have been spiritual. Um, but I just felt like there was a blockage, and so that made it difficult to connect.

Did you feel like it's because now we're married, kind of like things are going to just work out on their own?

You know, I, I did have the idea that, um, we have a lifetime to get to know each other, and so, you know, we'll evolve, right? But that doesn't always happen. You feel what I'm saying? So, um, but it was, it was just, it was a huge learning experience for me. And so now I take my time. I don't rush. I, you know, take my time to get to know people. Um, you know, I'm a slow roaster.

Can I ask you, what was the— like, you, you talk a lot about the things that you did bad or wrong, or, you know, you took a lot of accountability, but what were the things that you did good or did well as a husband?

What were the things that I did well as a husband?

Why is it so hard to answer? You answered the worst part right away. But the good part?

I don't feel like I did much well as a husband.

I mean, there had to be something.

I don't think I did much well. Like, I feel like for a large part of our marriage, we were— we almost existed like roommates.

Did you not do like dates?

We were going on dates sometimes.

Was it your initiative?

Uh, a lot of times, yeah.

Did you try to like, I don't know, did you try to salvage something? Did you try to start conversations? Did you try something positive or it was just all negative?

I mean, there were times where I tried. I just don't feel like I succeeded. Come on, Nick, you just supposed to—

but it doesn't mean that whether you succeeded or not. I think doing good is like having a good intention to do something good, because like— and this is, I think, this is, this is what I see a problem with your brand, is that you were kind of like coming off as like, I did this and this and this and this, but this cannot be the truth. Like, there has to be something that you did well as a husband.

I actually think the majority of my brand talks about beautiful love. I get it, but I probably like 95% of my brand talks about beautiful love. I just feel like I'm honest about my journey.

Can we find one thing that you did good as a husband? I need you to go dig in there. Ask God, ask whoever you need to, and find one good thing.

I mean, I truly believe that I loved my wife.

Okay.

Um, now, I truly believe that I loved her. Um, but I also don't believe that I loved her the way that I should have. But I loved her for sure. So, um, I think that's a positive.

That's a great thing. That's— I think that's one of the biggest things. That's— I mean, I don't— love is big. Love is, love is huge.

Yeah.

There's nothing else that you can possibly think of?

I mean, that's, that's what I have off the top of my head. I, I— yeah, that's what I have off the top of my head. I don't even feel like I— yeah, I feel like, I feel like I loved her.

And I think that's when I heard that you didn't have sex for 2 years and I told you that I think that that's such a common thing in relationships. And I think there is a lot of— now I see it more and more with people trying to have a marriage or relationship for the show because it looks good on social media, it looks good for other people because at the end of the day, everybody is striving to be in a happy marriage. But a lot of times what we don't know and we don't hear because it's so embarrassing is like, oh yeah, we haven't been intimate in years. You know, I remember my first relationship, that's how it was ending. Like the last year, we were in a relationship for 3 years. We were like in our early 20s. We didn't have sex for a year, like literally for— and we lived together, we slept in the same bed. We didn't do nothing for a year. And I was just like, did you—

were you— did you stop being sexually attracted to him?

No, it wasn't me. I think it was just we were so disconnected and we were fighting so much that like it wasn't even the attraction. It was just like I think there was so much hurt and there was so much pain that I was feeling, and I couldn't communicate that pain. And then I think he knew that I was going through so much, and he couldn't get it out of me. Not that he tried to get it out of me. We're just kind of living our own lives, and it got to the point where we were finding reasons to just go separate ways. And it just happened that it was time to go to college. And then he went to college in North Carolina. I went to college in the Bay Area. And so we separated. But then after— then when we separated, after we broke up, we had the first conversations like months after that. And that's when we kind of were like, oh my God, like, this was painful on both ends. Very painful on both ends. And then like— and then we kind of— we, we try to see if we can rekindle it. And then we started having sex. Everything like went back to normal. Everything was great. Crazy. But then, right, it's like, it's just— but we had to have that. Like, we had to go through those emotions in order to understand that, like, okay, this is not going to work because I had an issue communicating what I felt. And a lot of times he would say things and he would— like, there was one time, I remember, I just vividly remember that he yelled at me in front of his mom. And his mom was like, she literally told me, she's like, get in the car.. So I got in the car and I'm just sitting there and I'm like trembling, shaking because I was so scared. And I was just like, I don't know what I did. And she's like, you didn't do nothing. It's all good. Don't worry about it. And I came home because, mind you, we're living together and I'm just bawling my eyes out crying. And I'm in the bathroom just curled up like a ball, just bawling my ass crying. He got back home, he got into the bathroom and he goes, what's going on? And I said, oh, nothing. Just something happened to my mom. I literally would lie about what was going on because I was so terrified to say something. Because every time I would say something, it'd be like, well, we should break up then. That was always— and I think that just put this whole negative idea that I'm terrified to speak. I'm learning to do that more and more. But a lot of times I'm like, I don't want you to tell me, let's just break up if something goes hard or something goes south or I'm having emotions towards something. So that's how it got to that level. And so it just I think at that point we're so disconnected that sex was not even on the table.

I think a lot of people experience that in relationships for sure. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Lack of safety. That's what I hear you saying. In your relationship, you did not feel safe.

No. Safe, heard. I didn't feel like I was needed. I didn't feel like it was even— It kind of got to the point that's like, why are we even doing this? But it was so hard to break up too because now it's like, Well, now you're going to be taken away from me. So like now, you know, I'm not going to have you. So like now I have to do life and I have to learn how to live life without you. So like that was even— that was the next layer of everything.

Yeah. Yeah. That could be tough. That could be tough. And I think, I think far more people than we realize are experiencing that in marriage as well.

I think that's what it is. And I think we just don't talk about those things. And then at the same time, You know, because like, I understand people have sexual desires, and I understand where the whole cheating comes from. And like, where that— I'm not saying it's okay to cheat. I don't condone it. I don't think it's okay. But I also understand that on a human level, like, if you put yourself in those shoes, I'm— find me a person who's not going to go.

And who's never cheated on somebody before?

No, I've never cheated. But again, I haven't really been in so many like long-term relationships. I've only been in two long-term relationships, and then one that was like kind couple months, but it wasn't really a good relationship.

And so the rest of them were sneaky links?

That's why you keep going sneaky links.

They're not sneaky links.

They're— I just don't— I mean, I'm not public with my— with my— I don't like to be public, and I don't like to be seen with nobody. I just— I'm not— I like to keep it like to myself, very like close. Um, not— I think they were just very undefined.

So you be dating on the low, huh? So you— so you date on the low?

Date on the low, I guess. Yeah, because I like to date people who can be recognized.

Oh, you like high-profile people?

I like high-profile people, yeah. But also, you got to think about me. I'm 6'2". You're going to see me from afar. So it's like, I don't really— because I think it's scary to have it in public when you don't even know what's going on. I don't even know what's the definition of a relationship because we're not exclusive, or we're boyfriend and girlfriend, or whatever the label you put on it. Like I don't want other people to be involved in it prior to me knowing what this is. So that's why I like to keep everything to myself. Like sometimes I wouldn't even tell my friends who I'm talking to or just— I just, I've learned that it's better to have me, myself and I go through the experience to understand, okay, like, is this what I want? Is this not what I want? Because again, like a lot of people, they're going to have their own idea and they're going to be in your ear about it. And so, like, I don't want that.

So you like athletes?

I love athletes.

Okay. You see how she— you smiled the biggest. You smiled since— even my athletes? Yo, that's crazy. I love athletes. You smiled the biggest that you smiled the entire show.

I love my athletes.

Basketball players?

I love basketball players. And I know, see, like, the first thing people are like, oh, they're assholes, they're cheaters, they're this, they're that. But I can't tell you, I've actually had some of the most spiritual connections with basketball players or athletes, people who literally would sit down and talk for hours and hours and hours and hours. And then I know social media goes, they don't even know her name. They don't even know. I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Say whatever. It is what it is. But I've had really good experiences, but I also had really bad experiences.

So the last few people that you've dated were athletes? Is it because of their height?

Um, I think it's a combination of things.

Okay.

But it can't— so she—

because she really is 6'5". She said— she said 6'2". She said 6'2". She really is 6'5". I'm 6 feet. I stood next to her. My head came to her shoulder. Uh, this is no lie. This is no lie.

I don't think it's just the height. I think it's a lot. It's like, it's, um, I I think it's a couple of things, right? It's their— they have a lot more freedom. And I think that's what I strive for.

They have a lot more money?

A lot more money. They have a lot more freedom. They have, you know, I'm attracted to the status. I'm attracted to, you know, to the work they're doing. But it's got to be a lot more than just being an athlete. Like, they got to really be tapped in. I can't— like, again, I told you, I like to have conversations. If we can't have a conversation, I don't think that's going to go far. And I've just been so fortunate to be brought around people who are very tapped in spiritually, like men who believe in God, men who— like, we can sit down, we can have very long conversations. But I'm not going to say like they're A-listers. Like, no, that's not where I go.

Okay, so they be riding the bench, but they on the team?

They're not on the bench.

Some of them are still in the NBA.

I don't know. Nobody who is currently in the NBA. Is it? No, I don't think so.

So they play overseas?

Listen, Nate.

Yo, yo, I'm saying, you know what I'm saying?

They play overseas, okay?

Um, G League?

Hell no.

Nothing against G League. G Leaguers are basketball players too.

I know, but no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's crazy.

No, no, they're young because they're like 21. What am I gonna do with them? That's the only reason I'm saying hell no, because they're young. They're former Basketball players.

Former basketball players.

Yeah, because they're old. I'm 31, you know. I can't be with somebody who's like 18, 21. What am I gonna— that's— I don't think it's legal. I like them a little older, a little out of the league, out of the way, you know. Sometimes they'll like dabble into the G League just, just because they're bored and they really want to like still play, just so they don't lose their skills.

But no, let me find out you dating people that be on the Big 3.

Big 3?

Yeah, you know Ice Cube's Big 3? No, like a 3-on-3 tournament for like older basketball.

I don't know what that is, so no, no, no.

All right, I'm just saying.

But I don't even know if it's like— what's the definition of dating?

Let's go there. I think that there are different— I think that there are different stages, right? You can date, you can date someone but it's not exclusive. So yeah, you can date multiple people, you know what I'm saying, unexclusively. So you go on dates and, you know, you, you do fun things, you kind of talk to them, you get to know them. Then there's dating exclusively, which means that you're only dating one person. Like, it's, it's— the stages are, they're confusing. I mean, yeah, you could date exclusively, and to me, dating exclusively is like being in a committed relationship. Some people—

yeah, what's the difference?

Some people will say, well, you know, you guys haven't necessarily made the commitment yet, but if you, if you're deciding that you're only dating each other, then to me that's dating That's a form of commitment.

Yeah, I don't think I've been— I haven't dated somebody like committedly in a while. I also think it's like a little bit of a fear of mine. I've just realized that recently because it's like—

Afraid of what?

I think it's like, is this going to work? Is this not going to work? Because also it's this, this whole idea of like Like having those conversations, the commitment conversations. Boy, I'm not trying to solve math equations.

Do you date more than one person at a time?

I can't. I have a hard time doing that. I'm usually like, if I'm dating somebody—

You don't do it or you have a hard time doing it?

I don't do it. Usually I don't. I can like, I can, you know, I can text or like be on the phone with somebody but not like actually, no. Because the thing is, my whole thing is What if somebody like FaceTimes me and I'm on a date with a man? Like, what am I going to do? Pick up the phone, be like, sorry, I'm out with my other hottie?

Like, what am I going to do? I don't know. Keep your phone away.

Yeah, no, but then if I don't pick up the phone, they know my pattern. So it's like, they know I pick up the phone.

So you're afraid that you're going to get caught up?

Shit, yeah. I don't want to get caught up. It's too much work. Like, I don't need that confusion in my life. And I don't like to lie to people. So I'm very like, I just, I'm too honest sometimes.

So you're dating one person right now?

Right now? I'm not dating nobody right now.

You're not dating anybody right now? So somebody was to see this episode, I'm not dating nobody right now. Exclusively?

I'm not dating nobody exclusively. I'm not dating nobody sexual. I'm not, I'm not dating nobody.

How long is it? How long has this been going on?

He's trying to get me.

How long has this been going on?

For a very long time.

So you haven't dated anyone in a very long time?

I've talked to somebody.

Okay, so what's the difference between talking and dating?

I think I'm still trying to figure it out if we're better off as friends or we can like date. I think it's like, I think there's a little bit more pursuit that I would want from his side. But that being said, I think he's been doing a lot of good things that, you know, things that I've asked him to do, he's done. And so like, I think that there is mutual attraction, but I don't know what this person— I don't know what he's doing, and I'm not— it's not my place to ask what he's doing.

Okay, why? What are you trying to— no, I'm just—

he doesn't follow me, he's not gonna see this.

Okay, yo, you're hilarious. Okay, so you— so you're not dating somebody, but you talk to him? Yeah, but y'all, y'all do things that people would, would do if they went on dates?

Like, y'all going We don't live in the same place.

Have y'all met before? Yeah. Have y'all gone on a date before?

Yeah, we've gone on dates before.

But y'all not dating? No.

We've gone on dates before. See, the thing is, like, it's kind of weird because that's the only person that if I'm thinking about, like, okay, if I were to meet somebody right now and start dating, I think that's the only person that I'm like, am I willing to cut off completely, like, in my mind, in whatever reality. And sometimes I'm just like, I kind of want to see where that can go. So I'm not willing to let that go just yet. And if there are other friendships that I have with men that I know that if you get in a committed relationship, I think it's going to be very difficult for the man to know that, like, oh, I have guy friends, you know, and like sometimes I'd be like on the phone with my guy friend for like 2 hours and we'd just be talking about life.

So if you got into a relationship with somebody else, this person that you're talking to, would you maintain that relationship or would you let it go?

I think I would have to let it go. I mean, I would have to. I won't be able to be on the phone for 2 hours because it's like, I don't think it's respectful to another person, you know. That's just my— because I think from a perspective, if if he was in my shoes, right? And let's say he had a girlfriend, like a friend that they're not sexually involved or anything, but he would be on the phone with her for 2 hours. It's like, what are you doing there? Why? I don't think I'd like it. So that's why I don't think it makes sense for me to do that. A lot of times I see things from like, how would I feel if I were in their shoes? Even though we're very different people, but I know how I would feel if I was in his shoes. So like, I try not to do things that are gonna sabotage it. Yeah, even though I can, you know, I can be petty sometimes.

Oh, so you're the toxic one?

I don't think it's toxic. I just think it's like, it depends what it is.

Have you ever been a toxic one? Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So did you grow out of that or what? Or you still got a little bit of it in you? You're toxic sometimes?

I can be toxic sometimes. I have this thing, like, I've already said that before. I can like call a guy, be like, tell me you love me, and I'll hang up the phone.

Why? Why would you do that?

I don't know, I just want to hear it. Tell me you love me. Like, why not? Why wouldn't you tell me you love me? And I just hang up the phone.

That's crazy. Why? What's so crazy? This is somebody that you're dating? Like, this is somebody that you would call that you're dating?

Somebody that I know that likes me, and I know that we're not gonna be serious or anything. I'll just be like, tell me.

Oh, so you like to play with their emotions?

I mean, at this point, might as well.

So this is what you've been up to? This is what you've been up to on your time off?

Yep.

That's crazy.

I'm just on the phone calling every man, tell me you love me. You know, sometimes it's actually kind of funny how it works. I didn't even know that as a woman, you need to ask for things from a man. Because sometimes I'd be like, I'd literally say, you know, I need this and this, like, whatever it'd be. Like, I want flowers. And I didn't think men are actually gonna do it. I thought that, like, shit, you just say it, just, just, you just, you know, just talk to talk. And I'd be like, I want flowers. Okay, send me your address. I'm like, what? He— okay, send the address. Then, um, I would like— I was expecting, like, it's just gonna be like a little, you know, like some flowers from 1-800-Flowers or something like like, you know, Publix flowers, something that's like small. And all of a sudden, boom, I'm getting this like, you know, the Forever Never Die flowers, like a large box in the mail. And I'm just like, what the fuck? I was just joking. I just asked for flowers. Like, I just wanted fresh flowers in my house. And I literally, I was just like, oh, I just want flowers. And then he was like, well, you wanted flowers. I just, you know, I gave you flowers. I'm like, damn. Then you would ask for something else.

And so what else have you been asking for?

Sometimes I was like, uh, I asked for money one time and then he gave me money. This is different people. Ask for money, give me money. Ask for, um, I don't ask for much though. Like, I ask for simple things, like just nothing too crazy. I don't ask for like a Birkin bag. I don't have audacity to do that. I'm very like—

How does that make you feel when you ask for things and you get what you Crazy.

I'm shocked. I'm taken aback because sometimes I'm like, what? You actually gonna give it to me? Because I'm not used to getting things. So it's like, usually I'm the one that gives gifts. So it's like, damn, you give me a gift? What?

Is this typically from people that like you more than you like them?

I always feel like I like people more than they like me, but, and then I come to realization that they actually like me too. So it's like I think. I don't know what it is. I don't know. Because in my mind, men are supposed to just do those things, right? Because I think it's my cultural upbringing. In Russia, men give flowers. You don't even need to ask for that. In Russia, people are going to do a lot of dates, and it's just going to be a lot of grand gestures. And men are going to take care of things. Men are supposed to be the strong ones. But at the same time, what we don't see on the other hand is a lot of men beat up their women. A lot of men do things that are just very not masculine, and they're very bad. Like, they would cheat and do all of that, but they would do all the materialistic stuff. So to me, it's very interesting when I have to ask for things. But now, at the same time, I'm learning. I'm like, damn, it's as easy as that. Even, like, asking guests to come on a podcast. Oh my God. It was, like, the biggest thing for me. I was so scared to do that. And when I was like, I start asking, they all say, yeah, sure, we'll do it. I was like, oh my God, this is crazy.

She's like, I need to ask more people, right? I remember, I remember the, uh, I remember the— when we met, I think the weekend we met, you were like, yo, you gotta— he was like, you got time to do a podcast with me? And I think, uh, I think I was like flying out the next day or something.

Yeah, it was like late at night.

Yeah, for sure. So, um, but I was like, yeah, I'll do it.

Yeah, because I, I think like, I don't know if it's a fear of— it's not a fear of rejection because I've been in sales my entire life. So like, I'm very used to it. I'm okay with hearing no. And I'm just— I'm very— I'm actually more used to hearing no than hearing yes. So that's why— and that's what I started telling a lot of my friends, that like, hey, I don't think men can read our minds. Like, I feel like we need to tell them what we want. Like, we literally can just say this is what we want, and then we can actually get those things. Maybe not from everybody, because some men are like, you know, they count every coin that they got. So it's like, they're not going to be willing to do it.

No. Yeah.

Even Cam, when Cam was sitting here, I was asking, I was like, are you, if a woman says, I want a ring just to wear it on this finger, I don't want to be married to you. I just want a sparkly ring. He was like, no, I'm not buying that. I'm not doing that. Cam, who got money to buy a ring. He was like, no, I'm not doing it.

Yeah, I think so.

See, sometimes it's just the, the, the— you got to ask the right people.

100%. I agree, I agree.

You're just like taking it all in. This girl is crazy.

I agree. Listen, ask the right people, not the wrong ones.

Yeah. And I think like a lot of times— and I said it to somebody lately too— I was like, I don't think I can date somebody who has like a regular job, a regular guy. I don't think I can I can do it. And I'm just being very honest about that just because I think my lifestyle is not like, I'm out of that lifestyle. I'm not, I don't want to go back to it. So it just doesn't align with the person who has like a 9-to-5 job. Like, because sometimes what if I have to fly out somewhere? You know, I don't, and man like don't have, what if he doesn't have, you know, the time off or something?

Yeah. So like she said, listen, I need me an NBA player or a former NBA player and we're gonna be good. Yeah, yeah, you got to know what you want.

I, I want— I, I— yeah, this year I said like I really want to have that experience of like a girlfriend of an athlete, not for like the TikTok and all that, just because that's, that's what I want.

Are you open to dating anybody outside of, uh, athletics? Yeah, like what, a rapper?

Hell no, no, no, no, I don't go into music.

So like what?

I'm okay with somebody who's in podcast space. Comedians are funny, they make me laugh all the time. I'm okay with a comedian. Um, people— I think people who are in entertainment, I'm okay with that. So it's just got to be somebody who's— I think it's got to be somebody who is in the same industry or is around the same type of people, because I don't know I understand how intimidating that could be for a man. If he's with me and I have all these athletes coming on, like, shit, I would feel some type of way if my man was having all these beautiful women on. I would feel some type of way too. So it's like, I get it. But if a man is from that industry, I don't think that that's as intimidating to him because now— and I also feel like selfishly, there's things that I want as far as the career goes. And I want to be able to have access to certain levels. And I think people who are on that status, like big-time people, it's going to be more accessible to where I want to go versus— and not that I want to use them. No, I know that I can be in those doors regardless, but I want that person to come with me and be in those rooms with me. If it's somebody who is a regular person, it's not going to be easy because they don't have the same ambition as money. So like, we're just in different worlds, and I think it's, it's just not fair to that person. It's not because they're less than, or no, it's not that. It's just the, the, it, the lifestyles do not align. And like, my ambition is a little bit higher than just whatever you've been through.

What if he had like a really good 9-to-5, like he was in tech or something like that? You feel like that would still be tough?

I've been in tech my entire life. I've been in tech for 10 years. Yeah, I worked at the biggest companies in the world. And the thing about that is like, no.

Okay, understood. Well, my whole thing is like, you know what you want, so that's good.

Yeah, and I think to a lot of people like, oh, he's gonna play you, he's gonna do this, he's gonna be blah blah. Like, okay, okay.

You say you're gonna wait for your athlete.

I'm gonna wait for my man. I don't, again, I don't, it's not my dream to be like a beautiful wife and be married. It's not a dream of mine. I think my dream is a little bit bigger because I'm an immigrant. So there's different things that I want out of my life, and I want to accomplish them before I accomplish this idea of a society that you need to be married, you need to do this and this. No, my dream got to come first before everything else. And that's why I don't even think I've tried hard enough to be in a relationship.

Yeah.

It's just, I understand there are other things that have to come prior to that.

I feel like the guys that like you, you probably don't like them. And the guys that you really like probably have divided attention.

Yeah, that's exactly what happens. And I think that's why I'm like, just focus on your career until— but again, like, if a— see, that's the thing. If a guy likes me, why doesn't a guy make it known? No, like, I don't It's not.

So no guys make it known that they like you?

No, I don't think so.

No guys make it known that they like you?

No, not in the way that I would want them.

Okay.

No. And even if they do, then they switch up like a week later. Oh, you have a podcast? I can't do it because of the podcast. Fuck you.

That's crazy.

Yo, that's crazy. That thing, I think that was the most hurtful thing that I ever heard towards me because I was like, damn, damn, that was, that was honestly, I'm not gonna lie, that was very hard to hear because I was like, damn.

Did you work a 9 to 5?

No, no.

With somebody you were considering, like, and he didn't, he didn't want to move forward because you have a podcast and you interview athletes?

A week before that he was like—

No one that you love athletes.

A week prior to that, he was in Atlanta and he literally told me, he was like, I see you as somebody that I can date, somebody who can become my future wife, somebody who I can have kids with. And then literally a week after that, it's like, no, you can't. He literally said, you can't commit to me because you're so committed to what you're doing.

Maybe for him, he's like, yo, maybe the insecurity for him stemmed from the fact that you have a lot of podcasts. I mean, you have a lot of athletes on your podcast. And he knows that your appetite is for athletes.

He's also an athlete.

He's also an athlete, but he knows that your appetite is for athletes. And so now you're— and by your own admission, you said that your love language is deep conversation. So as a man, yo, like, am I the only one that's seeing this? I feel you. I feel you in terms of like, you don't want him to be insecure, but he also knows that you like athletes. And you exist in your love language all day, every day with the temptation of what you like. He probably like, nah, I'm cool.

Oh, the best part was a month after that, I went to— I went to the Hawks game and then I went— I don't go out, but like it was one of my friends was in town. And so he was like, hey, come out because I'm like, I'm in town for this amount of time. Just come out. He's younger. He likes to go out. So I had my friend with me and I was like, you know, let's just go out. So we go out, we go to one of those spots, like it's around Atlanta. And I kid you not, I ran into that man. He doesn't live in Atlanta, right? He lives in a different state. He was in Atlanta. I knew that he was in Atlanta, but I forgot what, what, like, what was the dates, right? Then I kind of got all mixed up because I filmed it. Episode, and then I went to the game, and then we were going out. Like, it's just everything is a blur. And mind you, I wasn't drinking that day, so I was just like, I was so tired, and I was just irritated with things that were happening. I was irritated with a friend. I was irritated with my friend that I was with. And we go to this place, and I'm just like, I literally, I'm texting my other friend. I was like, I'm about to leave. I'm about to go home. I turn around and I see this man. You think that whole thing was about me having a podcast. He's with a bunch of bitches out there and just, you know, popping bottles and having fun, as if like— it was never me. It was never the conversation about him and me. I think it was just his own fear that he's not ready to commit to nothing, because it's like he was out with like 20-year-old girls, you know. And I'm just— because he knows I don't live that life. So like the moment I saw that, I just walked out.

Out. Yeah.

You know, so I don't think it was— I think that was like the other hurtful part of everything, that like you kept lying and lying and lying and creating this narrative that you're such a good man, that you're such a good guy, that you want to be married, you want to have kids, you want to have a family. And like your Instagram is so perfect, but the reality was you still want to live life outside. And that's the thing, is like, just live that life. Don't bring me into it. Like, I don't care. You can just tell me, hey, I just want to date you, I just want to talk to you. I'm not necessarily looking for marriage. I might be okay with it. And I actually, I was okay with it at the time because I was still in this whole, I'm still in this limbo of who am I and what am I doing? So I can't tell you that, oh, right now I'm just going to get in a serious relationship and get committed to somebody. I don't think I'm capable of doing that right now because it's just not fair. I can't be fully myself because there's still so much to figure out. If you're willing to go on that road with me, sure. But when I saw that, I was like, yeah, this shit is a joke, man. I was like, nah, just walked out.

Yeah, I think that happens often though, more than you would think, where people tell you what you want to hear but their life is different, much different than what they portray. So I think that's what you thought the case was for me though.

Yeah, yeah, because it was like— and the thing is, like, my intuition was telling me, my intuition was like something is off here. Because it was like, the flowers, this and that, like the grand dates and like, we're going to go out there, we're going to go out there. And then just always every time we're together, always spending money. Always just— it was a lot of things.

Grand gestures.

Grand gestures. I'm like, I like it, but I don't care. Like, shit, at this point, give me that $700. Don't pay for dinner. I got a studio to pay for. I got a production team to pay for. I got shit to pay for. You don't need to spend it on this dinner. Just give me that money if That's if you really want to impress me. So it got to the point where I was like, I, I think this just— this is not— this is, this is— yeah, there's a lot of like, you know, oh, I live in a penthouse, I drive a Tesla, and I have two cars. I'm like, okay, cool, great.

Yeah, okay. I hope you find exactly what you're—

how did it turn into me?

I hope you find exactly what you're looking for. No, for real. You know what I'm saying? If that's what you want, I hope that you find that for sure.

Yeah, maybe one day. Well, thank you, Nate. It's great to give my story.

Did this turn out how you expected it to?

Lately it's been turning into this, so I guess people want to know about me too.

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for telling your story as well.

Well, We didn't get to see that. At least now we learned that you still get an ick. You're not that holy.

Yeah, for sure. I don't feel like— yo, that's crazy. I don't feel like the desires go away. I feel like how we manage it goes away. Not goes away. I don't feel like the desire goes away. I feel like how we manage it is key.

Yeah. And I think I just pray that a lot more men find that and adopt that and think that that's okay. And also women too. Like, you know, I think the emotional vulnerable part, like, I applaud you for doing that. I think that's why it's pissing me off so much because it's like, how do I become that? Like, how do I do that?

You could have just said that from the jump. Like, what?

But it just sounded more fun. Like, it's pissing me off because I'm always like, Nate, like, why can't you just—

You want me to be toxic so bad.

I know you don't have it in you, so It's okay though. It's good.

Okay.

It's very good.

Okay.

You did not become contagious with this toxic thing. Unfortunately, I fell into that and I just— maybe I've always been like that.

I don't know.

But I don't hide it though. I'm very, very straight up about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you having me on.

Thank you for coming on and I hope you're going to enjoy your time in Atlanta. Where can people find you? What you got going on for, you know, what's what's next for you?

Uh, what's next for me? I mean, just a lot of beautiful things. They can find me on Instagram, fromnatewithlove on Instagram. Um, they can buy my book. I have a book, Flowers from Forgotten Fields. It's a compilation of quotes, um, that speaks to the heart for sure. So fromnatewithlove.com.

Okay.

Yeah, for the book. Um, the Heart Room. The Heart Room is a space, um, that I created, curated. It's a place for vulnerable conversation Conversations. So we have these conversations in front of our audience, you know, it's kind of like date night vibes. Like, with the last one was, uh, January 31st. We had a saxophonist come, we had AJ McQueen there, we had Kitty Rose, we had Kira J, uh, we had Tasia. Tasia was there. Yeah, yeah. So, um, so it was a good time. So plan on doing another one of those soon.

And you're on Tonight's Conversations too?

I am on Tonight's Conversations. Um, so just, you know, touring around talking about love and sharing a message of hope for sure.

Well, are you, are you, uh, are you dating? I didn't even ask you that.

Um, not right now. I'm not dating right now.

Good. You like that season of just being still?

Yeah, I'm chilling, you know. Um, I learned a lot about people through friendship.

True. Yeah.

So no, I'm not, I'm not dating. Um, But I'm open to it. I'm just not wasting my time with the wrong people. True.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a beautiful time to be truly single.

Yeah, for sure.

Like when you just, just doing you.

Don't have a sneaky link.

I don't have no sneaky links. Okay, you want me to say the name? He really wants me to say—

I'm just saying, I Yeah, it's— It's beautiful time not to have sneaky links too because you know some people say that they're not dating but they—

Oh no, no, no, no, no, I don't have that. I can be like oh yeah, I'm very open about that. I'd be like this one, this one. I don't like to say names just out of blue like "Oh yeah, I date this." Hell nah! But if we were having a conversation and saying I can say who it is, but I prefer not to. I prefer not to. Just like I know that they wouldn't say that about me too. I think it's like a common understanding. And that's just something that I've learned because it's like, I feel like a lot of times when people are especially like athletes or like celebrities, when they date people, a lot of girls are trying to search for the next best moment. How do they end up in the blogs? How do they get on TMZ? I'm not searching for that.

Bad.

Yeah, the only way I want to end up in TMZ or blogs is because of the show.

I understand.

That's the only time I want to be in the blog. Anything else, do not put me in the blogs.

Do not drag my name there. I get it for sure.

Yeah, yeah. So anyways, well, thank you guys for watching. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know this is like, we kind of transition into a more unstructured kind of episodes, which I love.

Yeah, I feel like, I feel like it's genuine, it's honest, you know what I'm saying?

Um, but anyways, like, subscribe, follow Nate on Instagram. You have a YouTube too, right?

I do have a YouTube, From Nate with Love.

From Nate with Love. TikTok?

TikTok, From Nate with Love. Everything's From Nate with Love.

Everything is From Nate with Love. If you need more love, if you need some more— honestly, Nate has a lot of love and a lot of like light around him. So definitely go watch some of the episodes. Hope that this episode brought you some light and love because it was a beautiful one and we'll See you guys in the next one. Bye!