The Truth About Charleston White: Why He Became So Controversial

Oh, you don't really value life and other things until you start having children. And then you start looking at women saying, man, I don't want to be mean to a woman. I got a daughter. That's what makes you start looking at life different.

Your kid. And that's what's so crazy to me, because there's still so many men that have daughters and they still disrespect women to this day. They still put hands on women to this day, and they don't think that way.

Some bitches need to be disrespected. Some hoes need to be kicked in the ass.

And what scenario is it? What you mean?

So, uh, Women hit men. Hit her back, nigga. People are not— people don't know each other, but the spirits that they walk with are familiar with each other. That's why you're drawn to each other. Uh, women who been abused or grew up seeing abuse attract abusers. They look for each other.

I never thought that was going to be me. It was crazy. It was the craziest thing in the world. I never thought it was going to happen, and I've never seen abuse before in my life. I didn't even believe that domestic violence was real.

I used to see my uncle beat up his prostitutes, but I've never— I've never seen a man come out my mother's bedroom. Music have always been an outlet for musicians to get their pain and hurt out. Some of them sing love songs when they sad. This is their way to get it out. It's just that they hurt people in the process. But if you listen and stop judging, this is not violent music. This is kids expressing their pain and anger out of hurt.

This is Talk Less. Talk less, do more. I think that's what people don't understand about you, especially that Cam Newton interview. I watched it and I was like, man, this guy does not understand what the fuck you're saying.

No, he was not. He's a dumb quarterback. And I was the kid who made good grades in school and didn't need sports to pass. So I was the kid, man, I read a lot of books. I'm into reading books. It's a hobby of mine.

Yeah.

So I read everywhere I go. So if I'm standing in the grocery store line, I read every magazine title, everything, The Inquirer. I read, read, read, read as I'm, yeah. If I'm in the bathroom peeing.

I can tell.

If I'm in the bathroom peeing and I see some writing on the wall, Debbie, Debbie sucks dick, call this number. I call the number and see if Debbie suck dick. Hey man, I'm so— because I like to read.

So you know why I can tell? Because you have a very— your vocabulary is amazing. Yeah. And you can continue doing the— like, you can have a monologue basically.

Meaning I just don't say nothing and can't give you an explanation or reason why I'm saying it. Most people go to talking in circles if you have them to explain, well, why you say that? Uh, elaborate. They can't, and I can. And that's where most people lose with me because they think I'm just out here and on social media talking. But it's a reason why I'm doing what I'm doing. You just don't understand it.

We're going to get into this. I actually really want to get into this. And there are a couple of things that I'm going to quote from the things that I've seen. I haven't watched much, but I've seen—

I've said some horrible things.

So, but it's not about saying horrible things. I think it's deeper than that.

It's about doing. I say horrible shit, but do great shit in the community.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, okay, let's get into this and let's start. Listen, like I always say, block out the noise, focus on what's real, stay with what matters. This is where grind meets growth. This is where stories break silence and build legacy. This is Talk Less. Talk less, do more. Hey guys, welcome back to Talk Less Show. And today I wanna start the conversation in a very different way that I usually start. I wanna give a major shout out to Brenda Dickson Law Firm for sponsoring this episode, making this episode happen. It's a blessing to be sponsored and to actually bring this incredible guest on the show. I also wanna give a major shout out to Sacred Secret. She's an entrepreneur, owner of the Zen Bar. She made this connection happen. So shout out to you. I wanna give a major shout out to the production team, to Rod, who's behind the camera, Ferg, all those people. They're the ones that making it happen. So please like, subscribe, follow. We're gonna get into this amazing interview and let me do a quick introduction of the guest. All right. And I'm gonna start like this. Like I just said, everybody told me not to do this one. They said, Les, don't bring this guest on your show. He's gonna eat you alive. But you know me, I love a challenge and I'm not scared of a real conversation because love him or hate him, people want to hear what he has to say. He's an entrepreneur, author, comedian. He's a motivational speaker and he's the founder of Helping Young People Excel, a youth program focused on keeping kids off the streets. He's worked with lawmakers in Texas on criminal justice reform, built one of the loudest, most controversial voices on the internet, sparking, sparkling debates about race, accountability, and redemption everywhere he goes. So today we're gonna find out why he's one of the most talked about men in America, and maybe why he's probably the most misunderstood man on the internet. Charleston White, welcome to Talk Less Show.

Oh, thank you for having me. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, shout out to them people that got me here. Uh, But Rod here by himself today, he don't have no help, y'all. That's all I'm gonna say.

Brandon Dixon, law firm. Listen, it was a crazy, it was a crazy story. And actually, I know you don't mess with NFL, but it was—

I do, I do, I do, uh, I'm, I, I do, uh, most of them aren't the stereotype that I, I try to run with. Okay, yeah, most of them.

But the story was crazy. I've never been to a Falcons game before. I've never really been to an NFL game. And so I ended up going to the Falcons game We were at the lounge and somebody ran into me and said, hey Lesya, I've seen your show and I want to sponsor it. But he said, the only condition, I want Charleston White on it.

Shout out, that's my nigga right there. Yeah, appreciate that, man.

Brandon Dixon Law Firm.

Brandon Dixon, say, uh, I'm gonna— you should be our lawyer from now on. I'm gonna throw your name to everybody. Catch me, he's been watching me and he, and he wanted to challenge you.

He wanted to challenge me and he said— and I said, do you want me to talk to him about particular things? He said, no, do your thing, I trust you.

Yeah, most people book me to, to challenge me, right? Uh, but to embarrass me, to challenge me, to embarrass me, uh, to make, to kind of make me look stupid as if I'm just spewing out things. And that, that's what Cam Newton tried to do, uh, and I get offended by that because I'm more than just what I've said online if you do your research.

Absolutely. So let's get into this, but before we get into the conversation, every single person that comes on my show answers this question.

Yes, ma'am.

If there's one thing you can talk less about, what would that be?

Uh, the past history between Black people and white people.

Oh, why?

Uh, because it don't mean anything today, has no effect today.

Okay, tell us more.

We wasn't here. Okay, you're only affected by what you went through in life. You're not affected by what you heard or read. Okay, uh, we already know what went on back then, so let's talk less and do more towards solutions.

Oh, well, okay, so you actually appreciate it. The reason why I named the show was because of this, because people talk a lot, people talk a lot about the past and they don't have the solutions to move forward. So I've always been super big on, okay, there is an issue, but how do we fix it?

Well, that's what made me come to the internet with the bravado-ness and the arrogance against the criminal culture because I'm not on here talking. I get off and I go work with kids in the juvenile. So that was my thing on the internet. I ain't just on here talking. Y'all is. So talk less, do more. So when, okay, we know white people got systematic things put in place. We know the traps. We know there's something around the corner that's going to get us. How we can't beat it and we know it. So now let's do something. We know, okay, so what? They unjustly killed a Black person unarmed. What we gonna do? We talking, we spend, so after every police shooting, we spend 9, 10 months on every talking. Okay, now what?

Right.

And nobody can answer the now what. We had a whole Million Man March, Farrakhan, Justice or Else. Okay, we still waiting on the rest. They just go back to talking. So I learned politicians just talk, entertainers just talk. The only people who's talking and not being heard is the boots on the ground people who don't get the support that's really doing the work.

Okay.

So you never hear from them.

Absolutely. And I think when I was watching the interview with Cam Newton, one thing that really stood out to me is when you said, I used to write about criminal justice.

I was a pre-law student at Texas Western University.

Right. And you were talking about it and no one cared until you started talking crazy. And that's when you started being heard.

I literally worked on capital murder and death penalty cases for young Black and Hispanic kids in America by partnering with Mitch Nochee, which is one of the best capital murder and death penalty criminal defense attorneys in Collin County, North Texas, as well as one of the oldest criminal defense mitigation firms in Texas. So I would literally be sworn into court working and partnering to help save Black children's lives. And I would get online every day with tears in my eyes walking out of courts. I would go to Washington, DC every year and work with over 50 US congressional members trying to get laws. That's after I'd done all this in Texas. So I would partner with some of the most powerful lobbyist firms in Texas in the criminal justice field and would post all this on social media. I've done trainings for the US Department of Homeland Security Human Trafficking Division. I would train first responders in human trafficking. But it's not that I was trying to Be Seen, uh, I started learning that the algorithm, uh, doesn't digest positive videos. So if you're positive online, you'll never go viral.

And it's not even about going viral, it's like you're not gonna be effective, you're not gonna be effective, you're not gonna have an impact, you're not, you're not gonna be heard.

You're gonna have to have a gimmick with your positivity, or you would have to have a lot of money backed up. Yep. So because for sponsorships, right, to have it pushed out there. So, so once I learned, uh that the internet is the devil's playground and the negative elements is the fuel to it. Mm-hmm. And that's what keeps most people on there because you're not clicking on positive things all day. No, you're clicking on negative. So that's— so that's— that's— you're telling the algorithm you want negative shit. So I started giving the people what they want. It was supply and demand.

Why do you think that people care more about negative things than positive things?

Um, people don't care at all.

What do you mean?

They don't care about negative things. They just being nosy to escape their life.

Mhm.

Because there's negative things and positive things in your life that you can focus on. Why focus on other things?

So they choose to focus on somebody else's negative versus fixing their own negatives?

Yeah, to feel better.

To feel better.

You don't have to self-reflect when you look at other people's problem and highlight them. Yeah, that's why most people running online soon as they wake up, so they don't have to self-reflect, right? To watch other people do things, read other people, be affected by what other people say. And in that way, they've, they've escaped their reality so they don't have to self-reflect.

What do you do first thing in the morning?

Uh, grab my phone and get y'all what y'all need because I'm a content creator.

Okay.

My whole life revolves around y'all. Yo, you guys live and wait for me to get on here.

Okay.

Yeah, and I get off to it.

But you said we're talking about reflection though. Do you reflect personally? Not anymore.

I done grew up and became everything I wanted to be in life.

Okay.

Yeah, when I wanted to play pimp, I got to play pimp a little bit. When I wanted to play gangbanger, I got to play gangbanger a little bit. When I wanted to play Muslim, I played Muslim. I had kids, I played dad. I don't self-reflect because I'm executing goals and I know I got flaws and I want to embrace my flaws and I don't want to be right all the time. And I wake up and don't try to intentionally hurt nobody. So fuck, I'm gonna self-reflect for— I'm enjoying life now.

I love that.

I'm enjoying life now. So there's no time to self-reflect. I've gotten to where I want to be in life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you reflect when you were in prison?

I've never been in prison. I went to the juvenile. No, I was too young to understand, to self-reflect.

Okay.

Yeah, I was doing the, you know, the camaraderie, uh, you know, juvenile boys home shit that most boys do— fight, play sports, you know. And we was co-ed, so we had girls in there.

Oh really? Yeah. So what was the moment that clicked that was like, okay, I gotta do better?

Uh, when I heard my baby cry at birth. Oh, that noise. Yeah.

And that's when you're like, I'm a father now?

Oh. It's not that you're a father. There's an overwhelming feeling that you have, and there are overbearing thoughts that you can't stop thinking. And this love that you can't describe, you're arrested in it when you really love your children. Fathers and mothers become arrested in the development of fatherhood and motherhood.

Mm-hmm.

That's how you transition to be a good person. Oh, you don't really value life and other things until you start having children. And then you start looking at women saying, man, I don't want to be mean to a woman. I got a daughter. That's what makes you start looking at life different, your kid.

And that's what's so crazy to me, because there's still so many men that have daughters and they still disrespect women to this day. They still put hands on women to this day, and they don't think that way.

Some bitches need to be disrespected. Some hoes need to be kicked in the ass.

In what scenario is it okay?

What you mean? So women hit men, hit her back, nigga.

I don't, I don't think women should be hitting men.

I don't think, I don't think nobody should hit.

Exactly.

But today's generation hit men when they're in their emotions. Today's generation to get in your face. Today's generation of women hear disrespect and want to respond like she can whoop a man.

Yeah.

So sometimes you got to slap shit out of one of them.

Do you think it's going to work?

Yeah. Yeah, it's been working since the beginning of time.

Really?

You think they didn't stop slapping women because it's against the law? And more men again, yeah, they still— because women tolerate it. Women don't run on the first lap.

No. And you know what's crazy? I know you talk a lot about calling the police and, you know, calling the police. And I was driving here and I was thinking about it, you know, and I'm a white-looking woman. I'm from Russia, so I'm an immigrant, so I have my own fears with police, right? But when I had a man put hands on me twice I never called the police. I never went to the police because I was scared that they're not going to believe me, and I was scared that the guy is going to hurt me more. So I just decided to remove myself, but I never went there.

Yeah, that's because you're a foreigner. All white women know all she got to do is call the police and she's safe.

Really?

Yeah. Oh, that's, that's their comfort zone. That's an abuser's comfort zone, is your fear.

Yeah, exactly. Because I thought about it and I was like, so what was it that made me think that it's going to be more safe to not call the police So, so abuse—

abusers and abused people are attracted to one another. My mother— I would hear my mother say that people are not— people don't know each other, but the spirits that they walk with are familiar with each other. That's why you're drawn to each other. Uh, women who been abused or grew up seeing abuse attract abusers. They look for each other.

I never thought that was going to be me. It was crazy. It was the craziest thing in the world. I never thought it was going to happen, and I've never seen abuse before in my life. I didn't even believe that domestic violence was real.

I I've seen my uncle beat up his prostitutes, but I've never seen a man come out my mother's bedroom. But my mama was a strong, dominant, quiet woman. Like she had the presence of the character Madea, but not the antics. So my aunt's boyfriend, when my mother come around and play like they not abusers. She's a strong, stern woman and she don't speak much.

So you said that you grew up in a white neighborhood.

Yeah, suburban neighborhood.

How did your mom end up there?

General Motors, blue-collar worker in the '80s. That's what built the backbone of America, the blue-collar workers in the '80s. Yeah, I'm a blue-collar baby.

Okay.

Yeah.

What was she doing?

I don't know. She worked at General Motors.

Oh, so you didn't know exactly what she was doing there?

I know Mama went to work and we lived a good life. I don't know what she did. I don't know if she had to sell pussy sometime or nothing. I just know my mother never let us know what what the struggles of life were.

That's amazing. Do you have siblings?

Yeah, I got an older brother.

Older brother? Yeah. Okay.

And a younger sister. And my mama had her when I was 13, 13, 14, I think.

13. Okay. Yeah. So how did you end up in this whole scenario where you going and there is a robbery that happens if you were grown up in a white neighborhood with a mom who actually grew up in a hospital, right?

So, so I was— I, I had been having surgeries and been in the hospital from the time I was 5 years old. Til up and almost till I caught a murder case. So I had never really got to play with kids.

Okay.

So, so by the time— but when I put my eye out and we were playing with kids, there was no criminal elements, uh, in, in the world, in the minds of children.

Okay.

Uh, I fell in the washing machine at 5, put my eye out at 7, so I had to learn how to walk again before I put my eye out. Soon as I learned how to walk again, I have a slingshot accident, put my eye out. So from 7 to 12, I had 9 eye surgeries.

And your mom was able to pay for it too?

Hell yeah.

That is crazy.

Yeah, we know. My mother never had to use food stamps. We never got government assistance. If you understand, if you understand the history of America, the blue-collar workers was rich in the '80s, right?

And they're about to be rich again.

Yeah, yeah, very affluent. They, they took a, you know, they, they went to lower middle class in the late 2000s and '90s. But America have always rested on the backbone of its middle class blue collar workers, the factory workers. My mother insurance covered me till I was 25. Yeah. And we've never paid. So I know I've met many, many people throughout life who had had eye accidents and they self-esteem and life is hurt because they mothers didn't have insurance.

Right, but it never affected you because you just—

I was too young, right?

You don't know how to be without, uh, with two eyes basically.

Oh well, uh, I can't remember having two eyes.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

So how many people can remember when they're 4 or 5?

No, man, you can't.

So, uh, so, uh, the, the human body adjusts just like a three-legged dog. He can go to moving like he got four legs, he just with three, uh Yeah, I don't remember having two eyes. So I was so young and the body adjusted and I was having so many surgeries. I never had time to think. I was always in surgery.

And you were always like under anesthesia and all these other things.

Well, if I wasn't, I was on medication because the pain. Right. You know, so I was— yeah. So I didn't really get to be a kid to about 1989, '90, '96, '97. Well, now, because I got my eye in the 6th grade.

Mm-hmm.

And I was still having to go back and forth all that 6th grade year to the eye doctor.

Mm-hmm.

7th grade is probably where I felt the most free because I wouldn't have to be taken out of school for surgery. So that was the first year in school that I didn't have to be taken out for a long time for surgeries.

Mm-hmm.

So now I'm fitting in with other kids, but it's a criminal culture, right? I've been in the house watching TV, not being able to go outside and play.

Mm-hmm.

Watching all this shit on TV. So now it's fuck the police, fuck. So as a kid, and I'm adolescent, you trying to fit in with your peers, right? Uh, I don't know nothing about the streets. I don't know nothing about the criminal culture. I'm just trying to fit in as a disabled kid who hadn't got to play with kids.

Was it white or Black predominantly in the school?

Uh, elementary white, middle school Black.

Okay.

Yeah. So I, I I didn't start hanging out with criminal kids until 8th grade, the year I got in trouble. So I had one bad year. I didn't have a bunch of years of getting in trouble. I was just trying to adjust with my disability and just fit in with other kids. I just so happened to take a liking to what the young mind was impressed upon, what you see on TV and when you go over your aunt's and them house.

Yeah.

'Cause I was sheltered. I was in the hospital.

Mm-hmm.

So I was just trying to fit in.

Do you regret it?

No. Hell no. Because I fit in good, right? Yeah. I fit in so good as a little bitty disabled boy. They think I'm the leader and I'm just acting, right? Yeah. And I'm just acting. Oh, I don't. I don't regret anything in life. All things work for your good if you know how to find the good.

I agree. No, I agree. I think that's—

I've learned that. Thinking it was bullshit listening to my mama. 'Cause every time something bad happened from a kid, I would hear my mama quote that scripture. Son, oh mama, you believe in that God stuff. It don't work for me, mama, because I was a kid and I couldn't understand. So I would hear her say that and she could point out every time a bad situation happened, it may be months, years later, how it worked for my good. Hmm. So yeah, yeah, I had a very God-fearing, loving mother who I've been trying to rebel against because I think she don't know 'cause she a woman just talking. Yeah, you're not a boy, Mama, you don't know. So you try to prove your parents wrong as a kid. So I've been spending my life trying to prove my parents wrong.

Have you ever met your dad? Do you know him?

Yeah, yeah, I know my— yeah, yeah, I know Charre.

Yeah, I know my dad. You know him?

Yeah, I know him.

But he wasn't around when you were growing up?

Uh, my mama wasn't gonna let him be around. My mama did not. So, so my mama didn't allow us, uh, we could go see him. Yeah, we can go see him. He can come get us. Uh, but my mom didn't let negative men have, you know, my uncle have to come sneak over there. Oh yeah, cuz he go bring his hoe and he a pimp and he go jump on her and beat her. So my mom was trying to shield us from those negative elements of men as, as, as well as try to find positive men. It just wasn't a lot of them out there and she had to go to work too. So, uh, now, uh I had my uncle, I had my granddaddy. So my granddaddy had a barbershop. So my mom had her dad. He was in, so my granddaddy was in my life. My uncles was in, so I had males in my life. They just wasn't positive male figures.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I had the men that'll kick a woman's ass.

So when everything happened with you, when you, you know, you get into this crazy accident, the wrong, I mean, I don't know who was responsible for it, but the murder, you catch the murder charge. How did your mom take it?

Uh, yeah, she, she was, she was messed up. Because you got to think, I'm a ill disabled baby that's really blind and shielded from everything. Been shielded, man. My mama don't know. My mama don't know I got this behavior, man. I ain't, I ain't no criminal thug kid where everybody said, yep, I knew he was going. I mean, everybody was shocked.

Mm-hmm.

Because I'm very malleable, uh, you know. So I don't come from that. And when you meet my mother and look at my mother, man, you know, my energy, he don't come from that. So it's evident, uh, I'm running with niggas from the projects whose mothers is on Section 8, uh, we walking on marble floors in my house, uh, I can— after school I got a checkbook where I can order pizza, I got my own room, um, we were very affluent, uh, my mama was a very classy lady. When she got some dick, we never had an idea because I've never seen a man come out my mother's bedroom and she had boyfriend.

So then you go to juvenile, and when I first—

the first time I went to juvenile, uh, so you got to think, uh, but when I'm an adolescent and I reached the rebellious stage of life, and this is a normal typical stage, uh, where most children either grow and become a lot more mature than their peers, or they become followers of their peers, or they become rebellious of their parents in their household. This is normal behavior, right?

Exactly.

I just so happen to grow up in an area where the culture was propagating and promoting criminal activity to children like they're doing homosexuality to children.

Mm-hmm.

So they was literally promoting this to us every day. When I got out of school, I was being this was being promoted. So when my uncle come over, I'm— he's more impressionable because what I see on TV look like him. Because I have a culture that glorifies pimps, prostitutes, killers. They don't glorify my uncle who's the executive of Xerox. Oh, they don't— they don't glorify my granddaddy who owned a barber shop or reading books. Yes. Or learning something. So the things that I liked to do as a kid, I liked to read books. I used to collect the Members Only teddy bears, the dogs, the Scruffle Fluff. So I was a, yeah, I was a little mama's boy. Man, I was 7th grade, still wake up in the middle of the night, go get in the bed with my mama. I don't know nothing about no street shit, man. I'm sleeping in bed with my mama until I'm 13 years old. How I gonna know about the kill at 14? I pray every night. I know. So, so, uh, I just took on the culture because it's being promoted and propagated, just like killing is now. That's why kids want to kill, because we spent 20 years promoting killing to them. So you can't promote, propagate, and then begin to idolize this in pop culture. And I'm at home as a kid watching it, eating popcorn all day. So yeah, we got The Cosby Show. Yeah, we got A Different World. But we also have to remember, I grew up and I was born in what they call a Black exploitation era. So no matter what positivity my mother was teaching me in the home, there was an era where we was being exploited with criminal elements. Mm-hmm. So when I began to look out into the culture, I started noticing when guys come home from prison, They have the biggest parties ever. I know that when my cousin graduated from high school, she didn't have no prison party. So when we're in recess in the 5th and 6th grade, we want a prison party. Nigga, when I come home from prison, man, because you're young and impressionable, and that's what was impressed upon my generation. We had to grow up and realize that we was being tricked like these kids are. But there was nobody. They was just putting parental discretion advisory labels on tapes. Our parents didn't know what the fuck we was hearing.

Mm-hmm.

So my mama, how could my mama counter it? For one, rap was new, right? And they don't, and they don't have, they don't have time to hear. She working, she working 12-hour shift. She don't have time to go listen to my headphones in here.

Do you have like nannies or who was watching you when you were a kid?

Uh, no, nannies was unheard of in Black people household. Uh, children watch children.

Okay.

From the '80s up until the '90s, uh, a 10-year-old will be responsible, watch everything down.

That's the same in Russia, by the way. Yeah, I've never had a nanny or anything. There's always been like 10-year-old, you're watching.

They turned into school shooters, motherfuckers who had nannies. Uh, so, uh, my mother had instructions, so I followed my mother's instructions. Uh, don't go outside, so I never go outside up until 7th, 6th or 7th grade. I respected mama, followed instructions. Uh, my brother started to be rebellious, so I started following his lead. Right. The culture and your uncles is now starting saying, man, you better stop listening to your mama. She gonna make you weak for women. 'Cause now this is the Black exploitation. You beat down on the bitch. Bitch, shut up. Slap. You know, this is the Black pimp. You know? So then, so by the time I reached adolescent, now we saying we don't love these hoes. So now it's creating a sentiment of rebelliousness against your mother and resentment towards it. Yeah, because the music is saying, you mean we don't love these hoes? And it's like that, bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks. And now you're a teenage boy going through adolescence, and now you need the words of a man because at this point your mother words are becoming overbearing and you're going to do everything to go against what she's saying because you're a rebellious adolescent. You need somebody that you can connect with as a man. And my mama started looking out into the community and there wasn't no man. She tried, she tried to find, but it's not, it's not for a mother to find a mentor for a boy.

Well, because she can only be a mother.

She can't pick, she can't pick the kind of man he need. He got to pick him. He know what he needs, she don't.

It is, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a forever debate about, you know, having a mother and a father. You can't, a single mom cannot raise because she's a woman, you know, she can't.

Well, once the dick starting to get hard, what can she tell She doesn't know what she can no longer relate to him, right?

So it's, it's time to pass him on to male, male guidance.

Yeah, you, you've nurtured. Now he has to be guided and trained. Yeah, and Mama can't do that if she got to work in nurture. So I guess it worked out in a way that, oh well, I had to go to the boys home. It, it worked out for, for it, it worked out for everybody. Even if you do 30 years, uh, because you've done something wrong Even though we was kids, somebody lost their life in the process of us doing something.

I want to know, because I, you know, I pray to God I never have to face criminal justice. You know, I never have to go to jail, none of that. What was the feeling when you go from a marble floor to a bunk bed? What was the first thing you thought and felt?

My mama finna come get me. It's hard to think that when you're traumatized by the act itself.

Right.

It's a new world after you kill somebody. So it's hard to even think about a marble floor.

Mm. So all you see is that.

Yeah. It's traumatic.

To this day.

Yeah. Anybody who see a dead body is traumatic. That's why they holler at the funeral when the casket open. They be okay long as it closed. Soon as they see it, and you never forget that image. Uh, children aren't cold-blooded killers. Even if they commit a cold-blooded crime, they're impulsive. They did not make a logical decision to do that. It is impossible for a kid to logically and reasonably think about a decision and make a choice. They're impulsive. That's been proven through science and medical data and research.

So yeah. Yeah. When did it sink in that like, oh shit, I fucked up? I, you know, mama was right.

Oh, when I was in my 30s. See, I thought it was a game all throughout 14.

Oh God.

Yeah, yeah. It was serious for the moment, but you still want to be accepted. You still need an identity.

Mm-hmm.

You still have this culture that's still promoting gangsterism. I just graduated and joined a gang. And I had never been exposed to gangs before.

Right. And you were saying something about, you wake up in jail, they have menus for you, you have a schedule, right?

Yeah, we had a 16-hour schedule.

Right. So you were living in a structure.

We was in a boarding school. So we had off-campus jobs. We wasn't in a cell. We got to wear our own clothes. We can go every 2 weeks, we could go on shopping trips to the Walmart. And go buy snacks. We had a kitchen in there. We had an in-ground heated swimming, Olympic-size swimming pool. We had a gym, we had a weight room, we had a game room, we had snack machines, we had a canteen we can go to. We had a football team, we had a track team, and we had girls in there. So this wasn't a lockup facility. This was like a boarding school. It was called Getting Stayed Home in School. They didn't start locking children up to really making it an incarcerated type of world until George Bush became governor of Texas in like the mid-'90s.

Okay.

But other than that, the world hadn't saw this before, so they didn't know how to lock up kids.

But technically, you didn't have to change. You could have stayed on this gang path and you could have been with the bad boys. You got out.

No, I couldn't have because it wasn't in me.

Okay.

See, what's not in you, you can't stay on that.

Okay.

So no, I was going through a phase. Like a kid wake up one day and think, I'm gay. I was going through an adolescent phase of stages, having not having a normal childhood to play with kids. I'm just trying to play with other kids. And at this time I'm trying to play, people die when these kids play. This is what we do now. Uh, when we was dancing, I tried to— I was dancing with kids when we were doing the Michael Jackson and MC Hammer. Now we ain't doing the Michael Jackson, MC Hammer, we shooting guns as kids. I want to fit in.

Right.

So in my mind, I'm just— this is what we do as kids, and this is what Black people do in America because this is what we do. I don't have nothing to counter that. Every man I know and seen that I've seen on TV, so I don't have nothing to counter that. And the Black community is clapping for this. We're not celebrating hard-working Black women, we celebrating pussy-popping women. So my mother's appearance is not appealing to what is in contrast. I ain't never seen my mama ass. I ain't never seen my mama pussy print. I ain't never heard my mama moaning getting fucked in the room. So it's in contrast. So, uh, culture supersedes home training and home upbringing. That's why so many white people stayed silent when they was against slavery and didn't go against other white people. Because the culture said this is what we do. Yeah, but it's not right, Mom. I know it's not right, Sarah, but this is your culture. So how can I supersede my culture as a kid when every day I come home from school, I see this, and then when I walk outside, it's there?

Mm-hmm.

So, uh, it's the— it's— they done that to us, and Tupac was warning them. Same what we're doing to our kids. We put King Von and Lil Durk, all these drilling, killing people in front of our children, and all the celebrities celebrate them. Then guess what? These kids want a body. They don't want no money. They don't want no pussy. They want a body. We was the first of those kids that they begin to do that to. I snapped when I started having children and working with children. That's when I snapped, man. They tricking us too. But you asked me about my victim. When did it snap? When I was 18 and went back to court and I got to meet my victim's family.

Oh yeah.

I got to hear the words, "We forgive you." Oof. That's when the reality of empathy came in.

And that's when you knew, "I can't be mad. I just, I gotta do different." I never was mad.

I felt like I was a victim 'cause I didn't pull the trigger. Yeah, for 3 years I was mad at God. Man, I ain't kill no motherfucker, but I ain't do it. Because I was always used to getting out of trouble because I've never really been in trouble.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So, so I said you were mad that you didn't pull the trigger. Yeah. Because in my mind, I didn't kill him. We just went to steal some jackets.

Okay.

So it's hard for a kid to understand. Even though you didn't shoot him, you're just as guilty, right? It's hard to believe that concept, man. I ain't shooting him. So, and at the age of 14, I couldn't fathom being locked up 4 years before I could ever be considered for release. My little brain could not process that.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, I couldn't process.

Because getting to 18 as a 14, that's like— Say it, say it.

Talking about what you're going to do when you graduate in the 7th grade seemed like a lifetime.

Right.

So that was the timeframe. Uh, I remember telling my mother, I said, man, Mom, I can't do no 4 years. I might can do 2. And my mama said, son, you ain't got no choice. What you gonna do, kill yourself? And look me right in my face. Yeah, she gave— yeah, yeah. And I was a tough little nigga. Yeah, I was a tough little guy.

But that's—

I mean, so, so her— so I was this disabled kid, never been exposed to gangs, uh, been coddled or nurtured, loved on, uh, never seen hate in real life, uh, never been mistreated by, uh— after going to this institution where other children was from ages 12 to 21 and all violent offenders, what, no thieves, what, no robbers, capital murder, murder, attempted capital murder, attempted murder, aggravated kidnapping, arson, rape, and child molestation was all there. And it was 400 children all over Texas.

It is insane. It's so bizarre to me. And again, maybe because I'm an immigrant, maybe because I come from a different culture, but I have never seen, you know, this like guns and violence being so glorified. Like you were saying, you know, to me the question is, I don't understand what people follow NBA YoungBoy for, for example. I don't understand that music.

I'm sorry. I didn't either until I started working with violent young boys. That's how I found out about him. Working with kids, either alternative or juvenile. Uh, it's angry, hurt, pain, violent music. It's not violent music, sounds violent. Yeah, if you pay attention and you study the subject that's saying this, uh, that was his outlet.

Mhm.

Music have always been an outlet for musicians to get their pain and hurt out. Some of them sing love songs when they sad. This is their way to get it out. It's just that they hurt people in the process. But if you listen and stop judging, uh, this is not violent music. This is kids expressing their pain and anger out of hurt that want to hurt people, that don't know how to stop hurting people because they're hurting. And hurt people hurt people. So that's why you got millions of children, because they're in pain and they can relate.

Yeah, but it's also, you know, America's glorifying guns. America's glorifying, you know, um I had a conversation with somebody and it was a friend of mine and she said, you know, I was talking to this one guy and he was presenting to be this like thuggish guy who like, you know, came through life, but then he never actually went to prison. And so I didn't— I wasn't really interested in him because he, he never been to prison. And I was like, isn't that the most messed up thing to think that you're not going to accept the person because he looks like he's a thug, but he didn't have the thuggish experience of going through prison in the system and all of that?

I'm like, well, a lot of women got, uh, two baby daddies that ain't deal with the kids because that was what was appealing to them, right? So both the Black child, both the Black girl and the Black boy, neither one of them have seen a man properly love their mother to argue about what love is amongst each other. Uh, we know dysfunctional love, toxic love.

Yeah.

Uh, but most of us hadn't seen healthy love. So for a long time, the Doughboy Street thug guy image. That was the roughneck sexy guy, uh, that the women crave over in the suit today. That was the handsome guy with the suit, the baggy pants, all the thug looking guy, right? That's why for 15 years all the NBA players look like thugs. Then they start making them wear suits on the game day. But for 10, 15 years, the NBA looked like thugs, convicts.

Yeah, I remember that era. Yeah, it was a big one. It was definitely a big one. But why do— so now So when you do go talk to kids, what are they hurt about? Are they hurt about the places that they're born into? Are they hurt about— what is it that's hurting them the most?

One of the first things I tell kids is whatever has happened to you in life, good or bad, is not your fault. And I say it twice. And I read the room and watch their body language.

It is crazy what happens.

Children mimic what they see and repeat what they hear. So if you have a question to why are these kids doing this, is it the home life? Uh, it's exactly the home life. Where did they learn this from? Children mimic what they see and repeat what they hear. They're sponges. So if you see a violent kid, he come from a violent household. You see a sexual kid that's already sick, guess what? He's been exposed to sex. You see a little girl that's always dressing promiscuous, guess what? Somebody's touching on her.

Yep.

So just pay attention to the kids' actions and that'll tell you what's happening, what they see. You have to ask them questions. Uh, so I, I don't come, uh, I just come to, to give them, uh, an understanding that you didn't ask to be born. You can't choose who you was born to. You were just born in a situation and some condition that you have no power and control over but what you choose to do. Yeah, you hurting, but when you know right from wrong, you know it's wrong to hurt somebody else even though you hurt. So that's what you go off for, nigga. Once you learn right from wrong, I don't care what happened to you, it's your fault when you learn right from wrong. Then I started realizing most of us don't know right from wrong because we've been in survival mode.

Yeah.

And from, from, from, from, from the time they've been in their mother's womb, from the time they daddy Ejaculated. From the time you get 'em as a probation officer, they've been in survival mode. Their mother didn't take prenatal care, they wasn't breastfed, they wasn't going to the doctor. So they've been in survival mode. It's hard to be a human to think rational and you're just trying to survive.

Yeah.

So once I started understanding that, but I learned that from the boys home, growing up in the boys home. I didn't know kids went to bed hungry. Until I got locked up. I thought all kids had something to eat in the house. I thought most kids were protected like me, sheltered. I didn't know some niggas fall asleep on the floor and that's their bed wherever they fall asleep at. I didn't know the only reason my partners was getting perfect attendance in school because this is where they was, the only place they was eating. I didn't know that. I didn't know some of the most violent men in our communities and the niggas we scared of The reason they're so violent, because they were molested.

Yeah.

That's why violence is so prevalent among Black men, is because they were molested or abused by a mother.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's— I see, I've always said that everything comes from something, and you got to go deeper and you got to dig deeper. And, you know, there is why when we talk about, you know, the separation between white and Black, right, I think we also have to address the white people because that racism that happens, and especially because they're— it's because of lack of education.

We don't know racism. Just for— if you were born in the '70s, if you were born in my era of Black people, you don't— you ain't even seen racism. You don't even know how to identify. There's a bunch of prejudiced people, but Black people of today are more affected by their mother and their father than racism.

I agree with you.

So let's not even bring up racism. Don't look to white people. I tell niggas all the time Look at where your mom and daddy met. Let's start there. The white people in slavery have any impact on your mama and your daddy when your daddy saw your mama in the club with her ass out? Did the white man tell your daddy to go over there and lie to your mama where they fucked that night? Was the white man in slavery involved when your mama let a nigga she don't know come in her pussy with no rubber? What the white man got to do with that? And when your mama went and told your daddy, it's my baby, and he said, bitch, that ain't my baby, what the white man got to with that. Everything you're affected by in life goes to the root of where you come from, nigga. The roots and the fruit are one and the same. So stop looking at white people, go look at your mama. You got all your genetics and chromosomes from your mom and daddy. If you freaky, your mom and daddy were freaky. What was you exposed to? What did your mama do when she was pregnant for those 9 months? What conditions was her emotional state in, man? Don't tell me about no slavery and white people when that has way more of a bearing on your life than what happened 400 years ago?

Well, because it's easier to blame, it's easier to be a victim than to actually sit there and reflect. Because, you know, I know for a fact when I was born, my grandparents were telling my mom that you need to do an abortion.

You—

she shouldn't— like, everybody was telling my mom, you don't need to have this kid because you don't have a good relationship with the dad. It did affect me a lot, but, you know, and I always talk about my mom cheated on my dad But the worst part is accepting the fact that it hurt me.

Yeah.

But I can't blame it on anything else. It's my mom still. I gotta love her regardless of what she's done. It's like, you know, if we're talking about kids, like, yes, they did something, but they're still children. There's still empathy. There's still something that you can forgive them with instead of sitting here and saying, well, you know what? I hate my grandparents because they didn't want me. I can sit and say about that until I die.

See, Black children are given excuses from the time they understand life.

Why?

Giving excuses. Uh, because the world wants them to be victims. They don't never want the, the Black man or the Black race to stand up erect. Uh, they're different kind of people when they don't have excuses, victims.

Uh, and it's easier to control you if you are a victim, like you said, you know, for me.

Yeah, the poor me, the poor me attitude is the start of depression, the start of violence, everything.

And you start spiraling and you start going.

Yeah, so, uh, man, that's why my mother's words— all things, all things work for the good of those who love the Lord and is called according to his will and purpose. I said, Mama, all things? And I start throwing questions at her. She said, Son, it don't say but. Mom, what about a kid being molested? Mama, I heard one of my friends used to get molested by his uncle. How that work good for him? I should ask some questions to try to prove that this is bullshit because I couldn't understand it. So I didn't read the Bible. I would hear my mother say shit and question her about it.

Mhm.

I can't understand the Bible. And I heard a preacher say it's the Holy Spirit who writes God's word upon man's heart. So why I need that copywritten book to read it? I can't understand it at 15. I need God right now. I'm thinking about killing myself in the same cell my homeboy hung himself in. They won't give me a Bible. How do I get God? In spirit, like Mama said. Just talk to him, son. You think you need the preacher? You can say, can you have the chaplain come talk to me? Chaplain might not come for 2 days. So I asked God as a kid, can you remove the book and the man out of our way so I can have you directly, God? And he did that for me as a little boy. So I don't listen to shit a preacher say, and I ain't read no goddamn Bible. It's been copywritten too many times.

You know what's crazy? When I was a kid, I had exactly the same thought. I questioned my grandma because my grandma is very religious. I questioned her every single time, and she would be like, you need to pray, you need to read. Because in Russia, you have to read the prayer that's in the book, and then you have to recite it. And I'd be like, I don't understand what the fuck is— I don't know what it means. Like, and I started going—

I don't need the word of God, I need the spirit of God.

Exactly. Like, I need to feel it. And I always felt something. I always knew that, okay, I'm going to get out. I Since I was 7 years old, I told my mom, I'm gonna leave Russia. My mom was like, with what money? Where are you going? You know, because we didn't have money. I grew up in a one-bedroom apartment. We didn't have nothing. And all of a sudden, and I was like, I'm not gonna live here. And she's like, you don't even speak another language. Where are you going? You were born where you needed. You don't need to be there. And I said, no, I'm gonna leave.

My mother have a letter that I wrote home when I was 14 to 15 years old, and I told her, Mom, I'm gonna be big and famous when I grow up. I'm— people gonna be talking about me like they was talking about Jesus. And they do.

And they're doing that today.

I was about 15 years old when I wrote the letter.

But that's what I'm saying. But I, and you know, and I always say that I have an issue with parents imposing religion on kids because, you know, they sit there and they read Bible. But my question is, do they actually understand it?

Well, well, that's why I argue with a lot of podcast people because they ask me, do you believe in God? You don't believe in God because God is intimate. Most people who talk about God really don't believe. 'Cause I start to say, are you married? Well, no, I'm not married. When I say, man, fuck God. I don't think about God when I'm ready to fuck out of wedlock, when I'm jacking my dick off watching porn. So don't come talking to me about God. God is intimate.

Yeah.

That's what I learned. And so you don't, so that's why you don't talk. So people who talk God talk, I look at 'em and say, they full of shit. They hiding behind that.

Well, because God—

Because show me your God.

Right, because God is like on the paper.

My mama don't talk God, she live it. Yeah, I ain't seen mama drunk. I'm saying, man, I know my mama got to get horny. I mean, God is— God can't be that powerful. I ain't never seen a man— I've never heard my mother cuss anybody out. I ain't seen her angry. So I got a living testament that's been reading the word, walking with the word. When I hear somebody out here say it, you drank. My mama don't. My mama was a foster parent. My mama adopted. She focused on the least of those. She does prison ministry.

Mm.

My mama was a foster parent with Lena Pope Home for CPS for over 25 years. She nurtured children, trauma and hurt children and abused children back to life. And it was the light. And they still look, call mama today. So I got a living testament of a God. So fuck, I'm gonna listen to a preacher for— and I've been trying to prove her wrong for all since a kid.

Mm-hmm.

And I ain't been able to prove her wrong with her God.

Yeah, it's— I think, have you ever heard of a book called Conversations with God? So it's a very powerful book because the very ending of the book, it says, God is you. God is within you. And I remember I was arguing with somebody who was studying theology at Stanford, and I literally showed him the last page of the book. The man changed his major the next day to math because he said, I'm not going to study theology because it doesn't do much to me. God is me.

God is with theology and religion takes you off the path of the true God, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, because it gives you a God. It don't give you the relationship and the connection to your God, which is self. Yeah, everything that— everything that you want to know about God is in the spirit of who you are. So you have to find the spirit, but we looking outside in the book. The spirit don't come out of the scripture reading the You're gonna have a situation in your life that's gonna activate that God in you. Yeah. Your mother go die, something gonna happen that's gonna be bad for you to find that good. And that's what prison has been for Black people. So that's why I recommend prison for Black boys. I recommend it.

In the current setting, how it is?

Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I recommend prison. I think you should lock 9-year-old boys up until they grown. Because what else raise? Because they're gonna be— I've been doing what I call an independent qualitative study on the effects of prison. Prison has more of a positive effect on families and Black males than any other institution in American society, including marriage, in public schools, in college. Only thing can top the prison system in producing great Black men is the military.

Okay. Because they're both the same because it has structure, it has discipline, it has discipline, and also has authority and control.

The Black boy don't have it nowhere else. He's coddled in every level of society.

But do you think it only applies to Black boys? Does it apply to any other race?

No, no other race.

Why?

Uh, we're the only people that's been done like this, that you can do like this.

But I feel like no other race—

so, so listen, no other race of people have been directly programmed by white people other than us, no other race. So it's like they have a spell on us.

But I also feel like white people have this idea, like they're groomed in this privilege, right? And so I think that's also affecting society negatively.

Show me one in three that's going to prison. See, we have a number that sits over unborn children's head.

Well, I think the white kids, the ones that weren't into like crackheads families and heroin addicts and all of that, like those are the ones—

Even our children born in two-parent homes go.

Mm-hmm.

Even our children born in well-to-do communities, great mothers, God-fearing mothers, non-criminal, not on drugs, they go too. Because the statistic says 1 in every 3 Black males in America will go to prison or be on some form of community supervision in their lifetime.

But you think it's prison not changing the school system? What if the schools were boarding schools like you had?

Uh, uh, would that work?

No.

How you gonna undo the trauma and the pain that these kids show up at the school with? Well, if they're living there, if it's a boarding school, who gonna pay for it?

The government, I hope. They're not. I know, but like, let's say we're in—

then we become Russia again. If, if the government has to fix it—

but it works.

Uh, but it doesn't work. But now, because now you're being controlled.

But prison controls you too.

No, it don't. They getting high in prison. Well, in prison, prison just puts you in a place where you can't get out and hurt public safety. But the prisoners run the prison.

Well, and you can do a lot of things in prison at this point.

I'm like, so the answer and the solution and the antidote to our problem is focusing on prenatal care and mothers. Let's get the babies right when they start forming.

Yeah.

Because by the time the baby get here, the mother have already given and set a temperament for this kid based on her conditions and environment of 9 months.

Mm-hmm.

So now when the kids go to school, what resources do we have for elementary children? And they're not in trouble. We focus on the kids that's in trouble. It's all the help in the world for kids that's in trouble, not for the kids that's out of trouble.

Mm-hmm. That's true.

We focus on third grade literacy tests.

Yeah.

Uh, they do, we don't. We're the only ones having this problem. The Jews, not the Asians, not Black children are the only ones having this problem. Yeah, other children are having other, but it's something specific about ours that don't apply to Nobody else's.

I also think it's— see, my view on raising kids in America— I, I don't have any kids. I don't have any baby daddies. I'm 31, and I'm not— I would never have a baby daddy. I don't believe in that concept. I think it's the most bizarre thing in the world that baby mama became something so normal. I don't understand that. It's, it's blowing my mind every single day.

Baby mamas only exist in the Black community.

Exactly. And it's crazy to me that They continue to become baby mamas. They continue to breed. Like, why are we doing that? And that's a whole different conversation. But I've always said that I feel like even as a— I had a friend who, um, their baby's mix is like Filipino and white. And a kid is growing up in California in the Bay Area, and the kid is very, um, kid thinks that making $250,000 a year is a normal thing because that's what he sees. And I always said, you know, it's crazy to me that that's normal to people, to kids who grow up in America. So I would want my kids to go to Russia, to go to Africa, to go to Europe and study there, because I want them to see real life. That $250,000 a year is not a normal thing to do. You have to grind and you have to work your ass off to actually legally make $250,000 a year.

And, uh, I, I thought like that because you don't know not to think like that. When you grow up with privilege, you think it's like this for everybody, right?

Exactly.

Yeah. So I thought every Everybody, I thought, yeah. And I thought my mom was supposed to do this.

Right.

I didn't know adults struggled. I didn't know there was hard times throughout life because your children aren't supposed to know the family's having hard times. Mm-hmm. These kids now are aware of the conditions. We wasn't.

Yeah, well, there's more knowledge now because it's internet and it spreads information faster now.

Well, grown folks let the kids know. What's going on because they talk around children. So in the Black culture, Black— the things that we like to do, our kids like to do too. So it blends us together. It makes our kids more exposed to adult shit that they shouldn't be exposed to. You can't listen to a white radio and hear, I ain't got no manners for no slut, I'm gonna put my thumb in her butt. They're not gonna let you hear that on a white radio. Kid Kratik in the morning, but they'll play it on the hip-hop station with your kids in the morning. So that's what made me start paying attention. I had a daughter. Long as I had a son, it was okay. Bitch, hoe, suck my dick. But when I had a daughter, I changed that music and I put on Black radio. I wouldn't play my music. I started noting Black radio is playing the same music I listen to with a CD with explicit lyrics. They're not— there's no radio version. So because I have a daughter and I don't want my daughter hearing bitch and hoe, I started listening to Kid Kratik and found white radio is way more family-friendly and entertaining with your children in the morning time compared to the topics of conversation and discussion that they have on Black radio, as if our kids ain't in the car going to school.

And the craziest thing to me is that people still allow kids to, even like white kids, you know, they allow— I've heard a white kid call a mom a bitch, and there's no way in my culture. Oh my God, I would be dead if I called my I'm a bitch. I'm sorry. Like, it's just not going to fly. But also they've done studies and they proved that kids can, whatever they consume, music, you know, the words that they hear, it all impacts them. So I remember we were growing up with classical music. We weren't even listening to anything else.

That's why we killing. We had drive-by music. We got music. If you want to go get in the car and go do a drive-by and kill somebody, we got music with the lyrics, the tempo, and the beats to tap into that energy. If you want to pimp on a bitch, we got some music you can listen to that'll make you want to pimp on a bitch and you feel like you can pimp. We got some music if you want to sell dope, the lyrics. So yes, why do you think during the Civil War time they had a band out on the war field? The drum, thump, thump, thump. Why?

Well, 'cause they had to get them going. Like, it has to be patri— like, You know, music gets into that spirit, into the spirit of like patriotism.

Why is all of our music on every radio station has something to do with killing? You think that's a coincidence?

No, it's a good point. I know.

Do you think the record labels is doing that intentionally? I don't say it's the record labels. Who wrote the lyrics? Who came up with this, with these words to describe killing this good for it to be the That's what's in the heart of these people. So the labels ain't wrong for giving the people what they want.

Oh, it's money, you know, they got to make the money.

Uh, it ain't got— this is what they want. Uh, so yeah, children. So I'm— my mama couldn't— you couldn't play rap in my mama's house. We had to sneak and listen to it. Uh, so when I look at today's children, man, it's just music. Why you think all these little girls look like little whores? Because when you look at all the rapping women, they talking hoe music, popping, puffy music. So now that's all you see. Now there's no more upstanding, educated women for little girls to aspire. That's why everything look like a whore.

The— what's going on, you know, when you see 14-year-old girls looking like they're in their 30s?

Well, that's their mama and them letting them wear eyelashes to school. On first day.

That's crazy, having makeup on.

That's the hip-hop culture, right? Uh, one, one of my biggest regrets is, is, is I didn't know, I didn't know Miss Dolores C. Tucker, but because Tupac disrespected her and took a shot at her in the song, I had a disdain for her. I wanted to grow up to believe that, man, she was trying to save us. Yeah, woman trying to save us. So she, she's a hero of mine. I often call myself the male version of Dolores C. Tucker, may she rest in peace. But man, she begged and pleaded, let's stop calling our women bitches and whores. That's why I say now, nigga, you ain't wrong for disrespecting her. That's not a woman. Look at that bitch. Look what that hoe got on. Women wouldn't dare dress that on. So we confused of what Well, because we see hoes and bitches. Women don't have they ass out. Women don't argue with men. Women don't take pictures and you can see they pussy print, they moose knuckle. Hoes and bitches do that. So we have to teach our boys how to identify that's a woman, that's a lady, that's a bitch, that's a hoe, she's a prostitute. So because they're all different species but are women.

And so same goes for men too. You know, you can spot that.

Nah, men is just a dog. He's been like that forever, right? The woman evolved to what she is today. See, so men have always been promiscuous, uh, irresponsible with they dick. That's always been the stigma of a man. What we see today have never been the stigma of what we would say a woman is. A man have always been a dog, a cheat, a liar. That's always been him since the time he's been created. The woman have never been this, never throughout history.

It's so I went to a very—

that's what's fucking the world up. The woman has gone bad. The man has been bad.

Yeah. And the fact that women allow other women to be that. And I'll give you an example. So I went to Santa Clara University, right? It's in California. Majority white school. We literally had 5 Black kids in there. And it was crazy to me. I never understood that. They all were on a scholarship. Thank God, though. And I remember I got into an argument with my professor because there was a girl who was sitting across from me and I could literally see her vagina because she had such a short skirt on and like a crop top. And I, and I remember we were talking about feminism or something and I said, you know, I don't want to see her vagina right now. Why is she wearing this to school? They almost kicked me out of school for that. And I said, but I'm sorry, she can't blame a man for sexualizing her because she's asking for it. I'm— she's out and she's sitting in a school, in a school environment.

There was a time in society if a woman dresses a certain way and she get raped, uh, that would almost be a justification for the raper to get off. She enticed him because that's his nature. How you gonna walk through a lion's den with bloody steaks on your back and think the lion ain't gonna be a lion?

And, and, and this is, this is what—

how you think I'm supposed to treat you as a woman and you half naked?

So, and that's where I'm saying, like, I, for example, I grew up with my mom telling me, Lesya, you cannot wear short skirts, you have very long legs. You will be considered as if you're an adult when you were a 6-year-old. You can't wear short skirts. I was told that since I was a baby because my mom said, I would much rather have you protected and you wear long skirts or you wear pants, but so nobody can sexualize you as a baby. I'm not gonna let that happen. So I've, I've had that embedded in my head. Now what happens now is you see kids wearing like mini skirts, you know, they don't have a, they don't have a woman.

Teaching them how to be a woman. Who teaches the little girl how to wipe? A woman, right? How—

what she put—

which way a woman is put— which way a little girl put a wipe? Front to back, right? Some little girls don't know that because they got a bitch ain't taught them yet. Yeah, they got a bitch to get high and get drunk every day, get fucked good, and leave her exposed. So it's a lot of little girls don't know that. It's a lot of little girls don't know what to do, uh, with them feminine because they had a lady or a woman to teach them what women do. Some of them wash they pussy like hoes at the sink because they've been seeing a hoe wash her pussy before she get dressed to go to the club. I didn't know this. I thought everybody was trained and taught, right? I thought all kids had some adult— but it wasn't until I went into a world that I wasn't a part of that I started seeing, hearing stories. Man, uh, to this day I still tell some of my friends, man, I can't— I can't imagine doing it, man, because I realized, man, I was— I, I had a good life, man. I had— so people be trying to look for some, some shit in my world, man. Well, man, nigga, I was just a kid wanting to fit in. I've never been abused. I've never been molested. I ain't heard my mama get beat up. I didn't grow up in abuse. I was sheltered, coddled, nurtured in love by my mother Hospital nurses, private tutors, because I didn't get to be a kid till I was 13 years old, 14 years old, one year of adolescence.

And you know, there's something that you said on Cam Newton's interview, and I really want to get into Cam Newton's interview because—

Yeah, he a hoe, Annie.

I think, okay, so a couple things. Let's start with this one. First one that really touched me is when you said that the counselors in the juvenile saw good in you and you did not see good in yourself? I did.

I didn't see bad in me. I wanted to fit in, right? So I wanted to play like I was bad. So I didn't want my other— I didn't want the other juvenile kids to know I wasn't the guy who pulled the shooter. I wanted to play like I was the guy who shot him. So I didn't see no bad in me because all my life I've been hearing I'm this, I'm that. So that's why I'm arrogant and cocky now. I'm a cocky narcissistic motherfucker because I've been told what I was all my life. I ain't never heard I was bad. Never. Now I done heard that boy always into something. Mhm. Uh, he's a, he's an accident prone, he's mischievous.

Mhm.

Uh, but I thought being bad is what made Black people good.

And you're so spot on with this.

I thought that's what made you good is to be bad, to be, to play, you know, what the, the jive turkey dumb talking you saw on TV. Like the kids today, I thought the with his hat turned backwards playing dumb was the way to be. So I would answer all the questions in class. Every time I answer a question and be right and get praised, you hear your peers, man, oh man, they think he know everything. So now you ashamed to be smart because your partner's dumb. All children want to be accepted by their peers. I coming up where It ain't cool to be the thriving smart person.

Yeah.

So I played dumb just to fit in like I do now on the internet. I can't come to the internet dressed up talking with my level of intelligence and college education to these people. I won't fit in. So that's why I got to play the dumb, stupid nigga. Put this poo-shite mask on. I got to do that, right? The preacher got to do it. The rapper has to do it.

Yeah, so you can be heard. And you know what's crazy? The reason why it stood out to me, because I've felt that so many times, because I only date Black men. I don't date white men. I don't. I just, I love Black men and I love what they stand for.

That's why we love Russia.

But let me tell you why. When you said that, there's so many times in my life that I felt when I met a man, he might be an asshole, he might be whatever, you know, a dog, whatever you call a male species. But I saw good in him. And I knew for a fact that he did not see good in himself. He did not believe in himself because he's bred not to.

Well, that's the motherfucker been told, you ain't gonna be shit, you gonna be like your daddy. I never heard that. I never heard that, man. I was in a spelling bee. I played the flute. I just wanted to be a normal kid 'cause I couldn't play football. I couldn't play basketball 'cause I was injured. But I'm athletically inclined. I'm a Braveheart. And they always said, no, So everywhere I go, he got— I got to stay in the house with the adults. And I hear all the kids out having— because I'm going to hurt myself. So while I'm sitting in here wishing to be outside and be a kid, I'm learning all the shit grown folks say and do. So I'm way more advanced when I get around kids. Yeah, I'm small frame. Yeah, I'm disabled. But my mind and my conversation is like a grown person. So I would run circles around kids. So I was very— I was very polarizing and a leader around children because I've been sitting around grown folks being—

yeah.

And they wasn't watching what they were saying.

Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. So I know some shit.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's why I can cuss the way I cuss. I've been listening all my life to cussing grown folk. And when I go around kids, since I couldn't turn a backflip, since I couldn't catch the football, I could cuss to get their attention and act like a grown person. That's what made me their leader. So if you read the newspaper after we committed that crime, all of my co-defendants were older than me. I was the youngest. The Fort Worth Star-Telegram described me as being the smallest of the bunch, but the brains of the bunch.

Oh.

Yeah, even my juvenile records got me as a little mastermind. I ran the whole facility and I was the smallest kid there, but you wouldn't touch me. And I wasn't the toughest. Uh, I read books. Yeah, I've been reading books since I was 5 years old when everybody cared, and I ain't stopped reading since. So that's where I beat most niggas at.

Well, people don't realize the power of reading and what it does to your brain. And you know, you— the reason why you can have the polarizing conversations and the reason why you can state your opinion and stand on your business is because you read.

Yeah, that's why I can go to Cam Newton, talk to him, uh, PBD Podcast, talk to them, uh, Mike Sean. So that's why I can go on any different podcast and hold a conversation with anybody about any topic.

Let's talk about this Cam Newton's podcast. Let's talk about—

you're trying to bully me.

He— no, I don't think he understood what you were saying.

He was really trying to see— so off camera, he was trying to bully me, uh, because he's good friends with Dion, and I had already said fuck Dion, fuck— so, and then he— Travis Hunter was in his football, so I had already attacked something that's personal to him.

And that's exactly what I said when I was watching the interview. All I'm seeing is Cam is getting so frustrated and so impatient, and he's not asking you the questions that he needs to ask because he's trying to shame me. But it's also because it's so personal to him, because that's all he's known.

He didn't want to beat me up.

And, and I can see.

So, so this is what it was. Cam Newton's cousin, which is his manager, is a fan of mine.

Okay.

Cam Newton didn't know much about me, right? I had him on that podcast. He think that he's, he's supposed to be this intellectual guru, and he— so this was, this was his title at the time. So he was getting me there not to show y'all who I was. He was going to ragdoll me and shame me and intellectually belittle me.

So he thought he was an intellectual guru. I was— no, I was literally— so the whole thing for me, I was very confused because You're talking about Deion Sanders not using his celebrity status to go into the communities and actually serve the youth and make some impact, but taking the money and going to Colorado and then also letting his kids drive Rolls-Royces and have this, like, live by the common culture that is not good, that's not promoting something for the youth. That's what you were saying. And what Cam was seeing is You're disrespecting the legend. You're disrespecting the, like, the hero.

You won't say it to his face. So he really— he's really trying to belittle me, saying, man, you won't say it to his face. Look how small y'all, man. You won't. So, so then he went to go to defend King Von, and I'm saying, man, this guy's a serial killer. What's there to defend? So now when I watch him and I see all these guys who have a history of violence, maybe gotten off for some murders, beat some murders, he idolizes and relishes in that. And I'm saying we got to be fucked up if a football player— he brought out the real Charleston because he was trying to really press me and he wouldn't let me elaborate because he would change the topic, change the topic. So it's like he was fast dancing with me and I wanted to slow down.

And it wasn't really about the actual conversation that you were having. It was more going towards the football. And what I was trying to get get to hear from you is the actual impact and what you're trying to say, the overall, like the, the general picture of what you're talking about. And that's what I didn't get to hear. And I'm just like, I don't think that you are understood and I don't think that you're heard. I don't, because you know, my whole thing is when you said whether I have the money or I don't have the money, I'm still gonna be working with the youth. And I don't care that, you know, I have to talk crazy on the internet. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna serve because I'm effective. Right. Because you were effective and because you actually provided solutions and, and I'm not asking nobody for no money and you are not, you know, and I bet if you were backed up by something like NFL, if you had that kind of money, we would have a completely different community right now. We would have a completely different society right now because, and I know that it's gonna take one by one to make a change.

So I, I put together the event, uh, that was called Murder Changed Me.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I wanted, I wanted to use a, a town hall presentation with, with rappers' mothers who have buried their sons, well-known rappers' mothers. So I went and got Mo3 mom, FBG Duck's mother, uh, Tooka's mother, uh, Lil Snoop mom. And then, uh, I went and got some guys who committed murder when they was children, who had actually killed somebody. So I wanted to put the victims and the killers on stage, uh, I went and got a juvenile judge that has been dealing with a lot of violence and murder sentencing children. And then I went and got the Dallas County District Attorney's homicide unit and they agreed to partner with me. So I put this event together, promoted it. Not one Black celebrity entertainer even tapped into. And these are the, these are, yeah. So I wanted Black people to see What does murder look like today when you got on one hand, free my nigga, and he done killed somebody? On the other hand, long live my nigga. How can we talk Black unity when we're divided by crime and we're— no, your nigga killed somebody, don't free him. How can we have unity when you got a whole hip-hop industry, people like Cam Newton, that's advocating on behalf of King Von and not these mothers? So I realized that killers and dangerous young children don't listen to nobody but killers and their crime mothers. I went and got some crime mothers and some niggas who really killed somebody. And what those crime mothers realized, they dead sons was just like those killers because those killers had the same story, just like these crime mothers who neglected their sons.

Yeah. And it's very sad that people have ginormous platforms and they don't use those platforms to actually make a change. And I've always, you know, that's always bothered me that sometimes I would have the most—

and I'm gonna cut you off. So, uh, you know, I called CPS on Finesse two times, one time for, for that kid and King. When I find out that situation, uh, and I find out that kid was living on the streets, Finesse took him in, uh, his mother, uh, I bought his mother a truck a brand new 2023 Pathfinder and never came to the internet to mention nothing about it. Uh, but I say fuck that kid. But the reason I said fuck the kid, how you gonna say fuck the kid and learn his conditions and not try to help the mother?

Mm-hmm, exactly. Yeah, so, and you know, and that's, that's my biggest problem is that we have so much power. And I want to ask you, what do you think about Kim Kardashian and what she's doing?

I love, I love the Kardashian family. I think the Kardashian family, uh, is one of the best things to happen to Black people after the 1964 civil rights legislation.

Talk to me why, because I agree with you.

I think for one, they know how to treat Black men. They teaching Black women how to keep a Black man, treat him right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also, but clemency that she's doing—

oh well, she's secretly doing that, uh, she don't broadcast that. She's doing that out the goodness of her own heart. And so, man, I tell Black kids all the time, because in the juvenile system, in the prison system, nobody volunteers more to go work with inmates than white people. I'm giving out what no nigga say. It ain't no Black churches going into prison doing juvie, none of that. It's white churches. So when I started training the volunteers for the Texas Juvenile Justice Department, They would have many questions saying, well, it seemed like I just can't connect with him. How do I connect with a Black kid? Stop trying to connect with a Black kid as a white woman and as a white man. Connect to him as a boy, as a kid. You know what it is. You connect to the needs, not the— so, uh, and then I go tell them Black kids who using these white people just to get a Snickers for the weekend, uh, half-ass cold, say, nigga, listen, stop stop looking for people like you to help you, nigga. God ain't sending nobody like us. God is not— God cannot use Black people to help Black people because our heartens— our hearts have become too hardened toward one another. White people is what God got to use again. And that's what— when you go into the prison system, you see what— how do you know you love God? Is what you do for the least of those. When I look at the prison, it's them old white people going around to visit them niggas, them kids. The Black church ain't got no big Black prison ministry. When they come— yeah, so when I start teaching classes at the parole office, it's the white churches doing all these big donations. So, uh, I started going in telling them young niggas, man, who, who don't know how to talk to white people, and say, man, listen, stop looking for your color to help you. That ain't how God work. He uses the opposite, nigga. How you think we got out of slavery? Same with white people, nigga.

They go—

white racist people end up with a nigga baby that they love. God uses the opposite, nigga, because the same ain't gonna do right by you.

Yeah.

So, uh, so I would teach them that, uh, you know what it's like to be a kid, talk to that kid. And then I would say, go listen to— find out who they favorite rapper is. So I created a program called A Street Life Cycle. People, from working with the old white people and working with the kids, I found out that one of the best ways to bond with a Black kid, if you're trying to mentor them or even connect with them, is find out who their favorite rapper is.

Hmm, interesting. Yeah, because it's something they can—

because you're finding out who they are, right? They're living through the lyrics and the imagery.

Yeah.

So, uh, go listen to that rapper. And come back and now you got talking points. Well, why do you like him? He's talking about violence. That's what made— that's how I create the program. Say, nigga, who y'all favorite rapper? And I would go listen to him and come back that Thursday, say, man, then all that nigga talk about killing, man, and break the lyrics down. But I started noticing that's their character traits, those lyrics. That's why they're drawn to them. They're trying to develop their identity. So certain rappers The kids say they favorite tell me a lot about their behavior traits.

Mm-hmm.

And so I created a program around negative rap music in contrast to teaching kids how to do poetry and show you there's a difference, but it's similar. Why does one have this effect and the other one don't? And I use movies to teach the value system that most niggas don't have a value system. They got it from the movies. That's why they can't stand on the value system when it's time. That's why when these niggas playing street, and they get in trouble, they don't really have a street value system to stand on. That's why they tell.

You know, it's actually crazy. I know we talked a lot about NFL, but there is an account on TikTok, it's called NFL Elementary. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

I, I think everything to do with NFL is dumb for black.

But listen to this. This lady in Miami, her name is Mary Crippens. She created an account so she has the kids that are in school, their entire program is based around NFL. So they get to draft teams, they get to write letters to the teams, They get to talk about it. They get to do the math through the numbers, through the scores and through the standings and all of that. And she teaches the values. She teaches. So sometimes kids will get responses from the teams and she would say, it's the kid's moment right now, so we have to celebrate him. And I honestly, I've, because I don't really care about NFL, I don't care about NBA, I don't care about that.

She know they do. So she using it to teach them through.

She teaches them. Through NFL because she teaches them through something that everybody is interested in. But she, she turned it versus, you know, oh, it's a rivalry. You know, if you're a Dolphins fan, then you should hate the Falcons. No, we're gonna— we're a team. The moment that the game is over, we're a team. We all get together. It's the most beautiful thing in the world. I'mma send it to you.

I love her for that because, uh, that's what the old niggas told me not to be into that shit for. The old, the old nigga Pop said The basketball mind. The Black boy got a dumb mind, 'cause all he got is a basketball mind, a football mind, a gangbanging Crip and Blood mind, a rapping mind. The Black American boy ain't got a banking mind. He ain't got an astronaut mind. He dumb and stupid. He dumb and stupid. And guess what he do? You know what keep the Black boy divided? Football and basketball. 'Cause you get the two Black boys together, guess what's gonna divide them?? They football team.

Mhm.

Guess what's going to divide them? They basketball team. So the old man told me, and it took me a long time to understand this until I got on the internet and started looking at this shit. He said, two Black men in America don't have no business waking up, getting together, doing nothing. I said, why, Pops? He said, cuz they ain't gonna build a goddamn thing. All they gonna do is go somewhere and argue, cuz the Black man like to talk. Talk less, do more. All the black motherfuckers— that's why everywhere you go you see a black motherfucker talking. He gonna argue over football and basketball. Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, divided. Michael Jordan, LeBron James, who the greatest? He gonna argue over religion. I'm Muslim, he Christian. He ain't got nothing that's gonna bring him together, work together. So why you want to get with a black motherfucker and he don't know nothing? But football. So the old nigga told me, don't watch Black people and don't watch white people because they sitting around talking with hate in their heart. Watch the Asians and the Jews because they doing economics, they getting money, they got business. The Black boy and the white boy talking social bullshit and ain't got no business. And it's a capitalist country. So the old man told me, don't pay attention to sports talking people. My mind too big. I don't watch sports. I can't sit there that long and do nothing, and my mind is working.

That you just speaking to my heart now, because exactly, that's exactly how I feel. And I've been playing sports my entire life, and people have been shaming me for not going pro in tennis. And I've always said, I don't care for it. I just wanna play to work out. I love the community aspect of it. I'm not here to be rivals with anybody. I don't have time to sit here and watch and what the score was. No, he hit the ball really good. I love it. And I, listen, I'm gonna go and shake the person's hand after I lose because it's incredible. I get to play with you, you know? And I don't care about all the scores cuz to me it doesn't matter. Like everybody's gonna win and lose and, and, and players, they're just, they're just a currency. They're gonna get traded regardless, you know? They're not gonna die in one team. You know, it's, it's a very rare occasion when they're gonna be stuck to one team. And I had, um, athletes that have asked to come on my show and they're like, well, we don't wanna talk about it because we, you know, we're not gonna watch it. We want something that has scores in it. And I'm like, what, what is the score going to do to you?

That's the dumb mind.

Exactly, man.

Any nigga butting his head against another motherfucker dumb. Got to be. Oh, I realized, uh, the nigga on the football field after school, uh, the nigga walking his girl home was the nigga I wanted to be. Yeah, I ain't want to be a nigga getting hollered at by coach. Yeah, going home hurtin'. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We— yeah, well, I'm walking home with the ladies. So I always been the ladies type man because I've been in the house around nurses, uh, and I'm knowledgeable. So I'm always the life of the party.

Mm-hmm.

And I want the attention because I hadn't had it as a kid, so I crave and yearn for it.

And you're good at it.

Yeah, real good at it.

And I went to your show yesterday, and I remember first thing you said when I called you, you were like, Do you have a white girlfriend that you can bring with you?

Yeah, I sure do.

And I said, I don't know.

You better not show up with no Black chick. Don't bring— I said, I'm gonna let you make it this time, but next time you come to my show, you better bring a white woman.

And I did.

What good is you bringing me a Black girl? You a blonde-haired white woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I brought you another Russian girl.

Oh, you my best friend.

And we, I mean, we took over the whole comedy show because attention was on both of us.

Blonde hair, blue eyes, tall. Yeah, looking like real lily white women. She— hell yeah, that's why them Kardashians stand out.

Talk to me about—

don't nobody know how to love these mistreated niggas like the Kardashian family, and they stand by them. Yeah, regardless, they have some— they don't have some fucked up niggas that they stood by and tried to get through with.

It's just the niggas was weenies, and people still blame Kim that, oh, Kanye made her. No. I don't, I don't, I think he might have influenced them.

No, the mama made her when, when they knew how to, uh, take hold of that sex tape and let it go. Yeah, no, the mama is— the mama made all that. Chris is the shit.

She, she is a genius. And that's something—

shout out to Corey Gamble. What's up, my nigga? That's the nigga. Yeah, yeah, that's the nigga I want to talk to. See, yeah, yeah, he don't talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Corey Gamble, man.

No, I think that's a powerful family. But talk to me about, um, dating white women, or just white women and Black men.

Don't nobody love a nigga that come from a single-parent home with his bullshit and flaws like a white woman who really love niggas. See, the Black woman, when her— when she realize mama right, and, and she ain't gonna let you come in and run her household because her mama done already warned her about you So most Black women left mama's house and disappointed mama with the type of man mama warned her about. So she ain't never going back to mama house. She gonna stay on her own. Uh, white women are willing to lose inheritance to stay with a nigga. Family be ready to disown them. Daddy be ready to disown them. Uh, the Black woman ain't finna lose her Section 8 for your ass, let alone her inheritance. So when you find something, uh, across the railroad track that's opposite of you and they really love you, you know what it took to love you, nigga. It's easy for a Black woman to love you.

But why is it so frowned upon to date a white woman as a Black man?

Uh, because Black women don't want their sons dating white women.

For what reason?

Same reason white men don't want their daughters dating Black men. You gonna turn my baby out. You go holler rape. That's what made me start being interested in white women, my mother's fear. Oh, okay, son. Uh, because we lived in a white community, and that's the Black woman's biggest fear, is a white woman hollering her son done something and end up like Emmett Till. That's been engraved in the minds of every Black mother since that picture have come out. So we've always been warned, be careful, don't— no, stay from down there. They go holler rape. First time you have sex with one, one know how to rape. You say, aha, I knew Mama didn't know what she was talking about. Boy, I've been fucking white girls ever since. Ain't now one of them holler rape. Then they start making movies like Fifty Shades of Grey. Oh yeah, they like this kind of sex. So, uh, you start thinking, well, Mama didn't know what she was talking about, about white women. She knew what she was talking about, by God. Yeah. So, uh, but on the flip side, I would hear Mama say that God has no respect of color. So that superseded everything. So fuck on, nigga, go get you a white woman.

Is your baby mama white?

Mexican.

Mexican?

Yeah, Mexican.

But you said that you married her.

Yeah, I married— I didn't want to have no bastard babies. I planned my children.

Okay, I think that's something that's not done anymore.

Yeah, it's very rare. Yeah, yeah, I planned my children. Uh, I, I— yeah, my children wasn't born in, in impoverished condition, and, and they were born to a village, so they got grandmother and grandfather on both sides. Uh, yeah, so they get two Christmases, two birthdays, the Black side, the Mexican side. Uh, yeah, so both sides had to learn how to love the other because my grandmother didn't really like Mexicans. They side didn't really like Blacks. Uh, this is what brought love and peace into the world— mixed kids. God can't use white people. God can't use Black people. They have become too hateful in heart of hearts. It's the mulatto mixed kid that seems to be more peaceful because they don't have a place yet in the world. Everybody else got gripes and complaints except mixed children. Everybody else got an ethnocentric ideology in history that they try to hold on to, to hate behind, except mixed people.

They got both sides.

Uh, they don't know hate. They've been rejected by both sides. They don't have neither side. They have their own. So I teach my children that they're not Black nor Mexican. They're biracial. And you don't claim neither because both of them go mistreat you. If you're mixed, you think your Black side gonna love you because you mixed? Your skin is a little bit—

no.

You think your Mexican guy gonna treat you and you got Black in You think you're white? No, you both are your natural size, so you're not them. So that's why you typically see mixed people bond with one another.

Do you bring your kids— well, when they were younger, do you— did you bring them around other kids? And, you know, no, I wouldn't take them around Black kids. So you didn't take them to the youth organizations that you—

yeah, my daughter was in horseback riding, uh, dance. My son played football. But I wouldn't take them around Black children. I didn't want my children to learn to have to fight. I didn't want my children to have to know violence. And I just tell my homeboy, man, why you teaching your son to fight, man? Nigga, the world my kids grow in, they gonna have to know how to fight. They're gonna have to learn to self-defend themselves. Why you want to teach your son at 2 to be doing this already? He's going to mimic that behavior when he go around other kids at daycare. So no, nigga, I want my son to learn how to read. Ain't the first thing I'm teaching my baby boys how to throw up punches and Oh, that's the cycle of violence, right? Oh, there's some children who grew up in the world and never have to fight because fighting isn't required in this world.

Well, because people don't know that you can actually fight with words, you know.

Uh, well, they don't know you don't have to fight at all, right? Conflict resolution. And then tell somebody, see, we remove all the— we remove all the aids and the help from our kids. You can't snitch. Mhm. So what else they got? And they don't know conflict resolution. Somebody hit you, hit them back. Well, let's try to talk before you hit me, man. I ain't done nothing to you. What's the problem? Can you explain? So we don't know how to communicate. Communicate? What you looking at?

Yeah.

Oh man, I was just daydreaming. Uh, I ain't looking at nothing. What, what you looking at? So that's the response you would get. You step on somebody's shoe, he got the right to be mad. Oh man, my bad, homie. That's your shoe out. You don't look mad with him and reflect the energy. He got a right to that.

But we don't teach that because people don't know how to— what is it called— to be liked, to be disliked. They don't know how to be not liked. And it's okay not to be liked.

How can you tell a teenager that?

Well, exactly.

Existence is based on us being liked by our peers, right?

Right. And that's when, when, when that happens Listen, I've— maybe because I've learned that when I was a kid. I went— I left Russia when I was 14, so I went on my own to Australia. Missed my first flight, didn't speak a word of English, somehow had to figure it out so I can go to my host family. And I remember I was like, well, shit, things are gonna happen. What am I gonna— I can give up and cry and, you know, lose it all, or I can just sit here and figure it out, you know? And it's okay if people don't like me. And people would not like me because I'm Russian. People don't like me because I look I look white. People don't like me because I'm around Black people. Like, it's so many things that people do, but it's— I'm okay with it. And I'm okay having conversations with people who don't like what I got to say.

I'm cool with it because I don't want to talk to now motherfucker don't like what I got to say because I'm wasting my time. Oh, I want to be effective, so I don't want to talk to people that don't believe what I say. So if I'm in a relationship with a woman and she don't believe what I say, I quit talking. And I leave her because why would I be with somebody that don't believe what I say?

Right. That's very true. Because I think sometimes people, it can hit people later on. But again, they have to do reflection, which not many people do. Now let's wrap it up. And I want to ask you, so what's the solution? I know we've stated a lot of problems. We stated a lot of—

I love this question. Oh, I love it.

What's the solution? How do we solve this and how do we make this world better or the community better?

The late, great Michael Jackson gave us a solution. Solution, the name of a song, The Man in the Mirror. If you want to fix the world's problems, you want to fix Black people problems, you want to help the community and fix society, start in the mirror. Don't look nowhere else but in the mirror. Because why would you want to fix the world problem and you got a problem? So when you, when you come out the mirror, bag out, don't turn around, bag out and keep looking in the mirror. And before you say anything to a spouse or a child, go see if your bed is made this morning.

Mm-hmm.

Are there any dishes in the sink? So meaning start in the mirror and then clean your house before you try to clean anybody else's house.

Mm-hmm.

Look in your eyes first before you try to plug mine.

Right.

So how can you fix the community? How can you fix Black problem? And you and your sister still got resentment toward each other. Go fix your family. Baby mama, baby daddy, y'all fix y'all. Stop worrying about white folk because you hate your baby daddy, you hate your baby mama, and you got another one over there. Y'all hate each other. Forgive your daddy. So that's where it starts, all right there in your mirror, in your heart, in your house, before you even step on your porch to look out into the community. But how you gonna bypass your neighbor? That you don't speak to every day? Hey neighbor, how you doing? Shit, what's going on, neighbor? You don't even do that. So how can you expect me to believe you really want to fix the problems of the world and you got resentment in your heart toward people you know, but I don't know this?

Mhm.

So, uh, stop worrying about the world and fix you. Fuck the world.

That is powerful.

Fuck the world. Can't do nothing in the world. Fix you and that'll fix the world. So I became the change I wanted to see. So I stopped getting online, uh, bashing people. I went to the community. I stopped traveling around the country and I put my nonprofit Hype Youth Outreach in the heart of the ghetto, uh, where I would lie and say I was from. I'm not from the ghetto. I grew up in the suburb, but I would lie and claim this. So I went back there. My mama said charity starts in the home. I stopped looking in the community and started looking in the home, how I was neglecting my children, trying to help other neglected children. I'm missing my daughter's gymnastics practice because I'm over here having backpack school supply giveaway.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I'm helping the community, but financially I'm struggling as a father. I feel stupid. So fuck the community. Fuck them kids is being neglected. Let me look at me and fix me. Let me start charity with my kids. And that's when I got on the internet, uh, and it became an outlet only for me to become a wise man to create money. Uh, but I was frustrated as a community activist because how I'm gonna lose my kids trying to help the world's kids. And, uh, Dr. King did it, uh, Malcolm X did it, uh, Julio César Chávez, their children resented them. Because we had their fathers and they never got to know them before they got killed. So there's some children that resent us. I used to resent, uh, children because my mother would bring new kids and I got— so I would resent them and my mama. But, uh, I end up becoming mama, doing the same thing, helping kids, uh, from that resentment, because I want to know their stories. I would hear some horrible stories of children who were coming to my mother home And I couldn't imagine kids going through that, but I would think about my juvenile experience.

Yeah, that is very powerful. Have you ever spoken to Deion Sanders?

Yeah, no, no, I spoke to him once before I fell to Colorado, right when he first got his toe cut off.

But after?

No. Nah, there's no need to.

Would you still say, "Fuck you"?

Yeah, uh, I ain't saying fuck him to him. I'm saying that to hurt Black people. It ain't to him, it's to hurt Black people. He, he left for a better job. Why did y'all leave? Y'all ain't hit a hashtag HBCU since. It ain't been a Black celebrity to go to no HBCU game like they were doing in Jackson, Colorado. Why did y'all leave? So he just became the sacrificial lamb. Mm-hmm. Uh, but there's no need to talk to, to, to a man of God who, who has the kind of heart he has and the kind of human grace. Uh, yeah, yeah, him and his boys is a class act. Yeah, they're class act.

I will—

and they still love me. So yeah, they still, they still laugh at the shit I say. They, they know— they don't send word back to me, why Unc go so hard? Uh, and the people said, man, he just—

yeah, Yeah, uh, yeah, sometimes I go overboard because I think you are speaking to the culture.

I don't mean half the shit I say unless you think I mean it.

And you know, people are going to take on whatever hurts them the most, whatever they need to fix. That reflection that you're talking about, that mirror, that's what they're going to— they— that's what's going to hurt them the most. And I think that's what happened with Cam because it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're disrespecting mine.

What Cam was trying to make it seem like, I don't have nothing going on. I'm like, homie, I studied law, I got a youth organization, you don't play. And I'm saying, but had I known he had 7 different children by different women—

more, 11 now—

he's a, he's a pervert, whore mongering, homie, you— so I would have really went in. But, but he just so— he called me for a second interview after the Shannon Sharpe and Katt Williams interview. He wanted to top those numbers, but he didn't want to pay me.

Oh, he got paid from that 11 million views.

He did, but I didn't. Yeah, so, uh, once I saw the numbers, I said, homie, since you ain't gonna pay me, I do partner with a youth organization nonprofit, uh, in Atlanta. Can you at least donate to them? I think they've been giving turkey giveaways or something. Uh, I think they said he donated $250 $250?

What's the organization?

I'll see it off air. Oh, because I, I, I, I ain't—

yeah, what's the name of the organization?

I'll see it off here.

But no, because what I want to do, actually, I thought about it before we started the episode, um, the proceeds from this episode, I want to donate to one of the organizations.

I want them to stay there. I don't want to bring that drama to him.

No, it's not about him. It's about—

well, because I mentioned it, it will be, because they're both in We can cut it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But tell me a different—

or send me another organization because I thought about it and I think, you know, I just started doing that, going into schools, and you know, obviously they see a girl like me and they're just like so confused. What am I doing there?

Yeah, um, but talk a white woman, think you can't relate.

Well, yeah, I think that they can relate.

So this is what our children are doing. Our children relate to you by what that impresses them in the culture. So a guy showing up in a well nice fitted suit, fresh hair, clean cut, them, them YN with them switches ain't trying to hear what he's saying. And he can be a millionaire. It don't catch their eye because they're, they're functioning off what impresses them, not what they respect, not what's right. What impresses them. You talking about all day long they seeing people spread money. They don't know the guy in the suit, don't— his— they don't know that because what they're being taught culturally wise. So I started noticing when I go in with my bow tie on, man, it ain't until I say I was locked up for murder. I caught a murder case when I was 14. So I started switching up my presentation telling them what they want to hear in the beginning and gradually walking in what they need to hear. Then I think at the time, Robin jeans had started coming out, so I went and got me some Robin jeans. I always had gold teeth and diamonds. That's what they started identifying with.

Yeah, when I went, I went with somebody who came on the show, Josh Powell. He's a former NBA player. He brought me in there. So now imagine I'm walking with an NBA player, right? They don't know that he's married, he has kids,, and I'm there because we're trying to be impactful. And that's what got them. And then I said, I'm from Russia. I grew up speaking a completely different language. And the eyes that I saw on the kids, and I was like, oh my God, those children, they did not know any better. And you look in their eyes and it's just like something in my heart. I was like, I literally, I begged Josh every time, like, bring me back, bring me back. I want to talk to them because I see good in them. I see it and I know that if I tell my story, I can help them because we, nobody had it great. You know, it's just—

This is what I told myself after 4 years of telling my story, man, I'm wasting my time and these kids' time because I'm giving them a feel-good message and they got to go back to the conditions where they get molested. So my story, dies out every night.

Mm-hmm.

Once you get through with your story, their eyes light up. Once you get ready to leave, they know they have to go back there where they gonna be hungry.

Yeah.

Your story has no more impact.

Yeah.

Right now it's okay, but you don't know I have to go be a monster just to get home. Somebody going to go get molested again.

Mm-hmm.

And it's been going on. So, uh, I stopped wanting to talk and go tell my story and start looking at their shoes and say, say, man, get all these shoe sizes for me. Fuck my story.

Well, that's another thing too.

Fuck my story because I need some— I need something tangible for them to leave with other than my story.

Yeah.

That they can hold on to.

Yeah. So that's, that's another thing that we're doing. We're trying to put tennis camps together. We're trying to make sure that we can have sponsors to have out outfits, to bring the shoes, you know. I'm—

and on the flip side, uh, there's nothing you can do for the kid if you don't aim to help the mother. So I'll say, nigga, what's your— so go home and see where he sleep at. Yeah, you— he going to tennis practice, but when he go home, he ain't got an air mattress. Uh, when he get through playing tennis, he gonna have on the same socks tomorrow because he ain't got 30 days worth of white socks. He ain't got 7 days is worth the draw. So with little stuff like that, I started noticing, because that's what's going to change the mindset in the condition, not their program once a week. Yeah, man. Uh, knowing how to wipe from front to back, just, just the basic, basic, just the basic, because that's what I'm saying, man. Uh, so it— how can a kid be confident if he don't have clean socks and clean underwear, right? At a multitude.

Yeah, it's— but even like, again, going back to having a conversation, teaching them how to talk, because a lot of times we're taught not to talk because we keep it in.

Get y'all goddamn ass up! Where you learn how to talk when you've been getting cussed at?

Exactly, exactly.

And then when you put your headphones on, motherfucker, you bitch, suck my dick. So when you come out, what, motherfucker? I told you Where do you learn how to talk it?

Exactly.

So you have to resocialize long before you can even try to rehabilitate.

Yeah. And I don't want them to end up in prisons.

I do.

I don't.

I do. One of the safest places that God has used to preserve Black men is prison. I know it sounds horrible, but it's a place of preservation. Their mothers can go to sleep at night, they can get some rest, and guess what? I want them to go to heaven. And the only way for the Black man to get to heaven is prison because he won't pick up a God before jail. Nobody can get a Black man a God. His mama. So when he go to jail, he come home with all the gods, Allah, Israel, everything. Why wouldn't you want him to go there?

But isn't that a jail talk? When they come out, they still—

No, no, no. They still got it. They got a new heart, but the same mind.

But I remember you said the stats that 1 out of 5 of them—

but they don't go back for— they don't go back for violent crime. They go back for arguing with a girlfriend, probation violation, parole violation. So they don't go back for committing this bullshit technical violation. But what have produced better men than Black men going to prison?

But society doesn't want them to be.

Yeah, they do. It's a lot of benefit for society.

But how do they— they can't get apartments afterwards.

They can't— who cares?

Well, how do they—

the prison— who cares if a criminal can't get an apartment? I know I don't. He's a criminal, right?

But where is he going to live?

Not my problem.

So if he's going to prison, what's the after?

Who cares? He's grown. Why are you focusing on kids? Frederick Douglass said it's much easier to create strong children than it is to repair broken men. Why are we wasting our money trying to repair broken men?

Again, I don't—

and this is on the stock exchange, right? So nobody wants to repair these broken men. No, obviously they don't, because it makes money.

Yeah.

So why are we trying to fix them when we can really fix our children? You can't fix them, and they're adults. They're doing exactly what they want to do. They're not committing crimes because they're hungry. They're committing crimes because they're greedy. And like the Thriller, every nigga I know sold dope, didn't sell dope to feed his family. He partied like a mother.

Motherfucker. I mean, this is what we see right now. Even people who got millions of dollars, they're still greedy.

Uh, well, they not hurting nobody doing it. Criminals are hurting people doing it. Mhm. So I'm saying, no, nigga, don't go down there. Come home, man. I, I done seen everybody come home good. I've seen very nigga go to prison, come home and go again and be gone for the rest of their life. So it's, it's the, it's the good that come out the bad. Because every guy I know said, man, it saved my life, homie. I wouldn't know what I'd be doing. Because if you leave them out here, they're either going to kill somebody or they'll be killed. Wouldn't you rather them live? Have you ever been to a prison visitation room when the mama go down there, the nieces and nephews down there? This woman finally get some sleep.

Yeah.

Now this nigga healthy. You see how healthy they look when they come out of there? Some of the most handsome, fine men. They look sick before they go in. Can't barely can spell, now he can speak Arabic. Where else in life can a Black American get that other than the military? Nowhere.

Well, we're gonna pray, we're gonna pray. I believe the change can be made, I believe so. And I, I think I'm, I'ma stand on it, and whatever I can do, you know, I'm trying because I have empathy and I have a heart for it. And I don't care that I look different just because is, I know that I needed help and there was nobody to help me, so now I can be somebody. You grew up without a dad being there and now you are a present dad.

Yeah, I don't care what happened to a grown Black motherfucker. I care nothing about police shooting. I care what happened to our youth. And if we love our kids so much, then how can you support rap music? And we had 10 years of kids who killed people in real life, and we didn't know they did it until they started rapping about it. And it was called drill music.

Mm-hmm.

And nobody, no Black adult to this day have shamed drill music. So NBA YoungBoy came along and stopped our kids from killing by expressing his pain. And we got a little peace in the industry because they expressing their pain. But are we listening as adults?

Nah. But I just refuse to, you know, I refuse to put that garbage in my mind. But I do understand that, you know, it's— if it's a— if it's a matter of expression, you can't, you know, write them out. You can't. Because he's still— he's still a young kid. He's what, he's barely 25, you know?

Yeah.

So his brain is still not developed.

Man, when I go back and listen to Tupac's music, he warns us that if you don't listen to the youth, this is what you get. Uh, NBA YoungBoy is, is, is bigger than Jesus Christ.

This is crazy.

Uh, Jesus don't and didn't have this kind of impact on young people. That's why young people ain't living for Jesus. So, uh, you can't deny— you can't deny his impact. And if you want to change the conditions in the future of children, then you have to connect with them. And if you don't know they rapper and what they saying, you can't connect with them.

No, that makes total sense. I agree with you.

You have to know something about what they're listening to.

It's not about me liking or disliking. If we're talking about change, then you got to do it. It's like you got to read the book. And I know a lot of times when people speak of you, you know, Charleston White, it's like, it's like a narrative, right? It's a word. And people don't really know your story. They don't know who you are. They don't know what you stand for.

I didn't bring me to the internet like most people do. I didn't come taking pictures of my favorite meals. I literally came to protect me with a persona and character to say some of the most horrible things in the world because this is not me. I knew at some point the things that I would say would make people look at me and say, oh man, he really just working with kids. But the things that I was saying was starting to become more polarizing. They wouldn't even give a fuck about what I do because what I said started to supersede what I do. And I said, that's why children don't listen to them, because they've been telling kids actions speak louder than words, and the kids been watching y'all and listening to y'all, and y'all don't live nothing like how y'all talk.

They talk more and do less.

There you go.

Anyways, I want to do another shout out to Brandon Dixon Law Firm for sponsoring this episode, bringing Charleston White on. So for any of your car incidents, Uber incidents, Lyft incidents, personal injury, call Brandon Dixon Law Firm. Where can they find you and what's next for you?

CharlestonWhite46 on Instagram. Uh, I got another movie coming out. Uh, I just started a management company called Uncle Tom Management. Uh, I got talks with Don King tomorrow, uh, for, you know, my first fighter to possibly, uh, get in the ring with AB, Adrian Broner. Uh, uh, comedy tour coming up again next year. Yeah, me and Woody just, just kicked off a little debut comedy tour. Uh, I'm on TikTok, Instagram, everywhere but Facebook.

Get on Facebook, they pay.

Nah, I was out. I was on Facebook for years, that's where I started.

Oh, why?

Yeah, uh, uh, ain't no— Facebook is, is, is— Facebook is where the poor people with problems harbor and exist.

Do you want to get paid? Facebook pays though.

Uh, they pay the least compared to TikTok. And well, what Facebook will pay you in a month, I make in, in a week.

Yeah.

Uh, and, and I don't follow rules. Rules.

Yeah, that's another thing.

Yeah, yeah, I don't follow rules. And, uh, you went to Facebook as a, as an entity and brand. I started out as Charleston White, so I was doing millions of views on Facebook long before the world seen me. So, uh, when I go on Facebook, I say this is where the local people I know who are still poor and struggling— this is where misery loves company. So everybody on Facebook to me seemed miserable. Because they got relationship problems. They posting this, uh, when you get on Instagram, everybody faking. Oh yeah, it's a good life, it's a perfect life.

Oh my God, I hate that shit.

On Facebook, you see the people's problems. Yeah, yeah, because they all locally know each other. Yeah, uh, TikTok, uh, stories, stories, stories, and being misguided and miseducated and funny too.

Yeah, that's where I learned about Woody. I just had no idea who it was until I saw that, that that case. It was hilarious. I was like, wait, I'm seeing him in person right now? Crazy. Anyways, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I'm glad. At first I turned you down because you was a white woman and I didn't know what to think. Yeah, I made up a bunch of excuses, but I went into me, I'm gonna be asking me some questions about me. She finna fuck with me by Charlie Kirk. Uh, yeah, so, uh, yeah, I'm like, nah, nah. But then I called you home, you know, I called him, the lady who introduced him, she's like, no, I see you, Chella. I do it. I work with her.

Shout out to Sacred Secret yet again, because she was the one that made it happen. So thank you so much. I appreciate you. And I hope that this episode will actually make some impact.

Well, every now and then I do an interview like this here where I get to remain as myself and Charleston, and people get to see the glimmer of the man rather than the character. And I win some new fans. So appreciate you for having me.

All right. Well, thank you. Thank you. Oh my God, this was amazing.