The Truth About NFL Players, Marriage & Success | Darren Waller

3 days and was just down bad and just like kind of like sitting in the hospital bed like—

I'm sure people are gonna say, how can you be insecure? You know, you got money, you're over 6 feet.

The fuel for someone being able to achieve those things was that insecurity.

You know, people are now going with the flow because social media has fucked us up.

We are unconsciously formed to believe that and act that way. That's why so many people like grind to be the doctor, grind to be the lawyer, grind to be this, this, and that.

Cheating and like, it's like a normal thing now.

Let these people experience these difficulties, like let them live, let them be.

That shit, like I was drinking for 24 hours straight. This is Talk Less. Talk less, do more. He's trying to do good. He's trying to get in a relationship with this amazing woman who is a Leo, born in August, whatever, whatever. Yes, he's been courting her for 3 months or 2 months, and Kord is kind of like, because y'all saying the Leo shit. No, fuck the Leo shit. The fact is, the fact is that he is courting a woman for 2 months and he's trying to do good and he's trying to be a good man and you are trying to make him a hoe. I am not. No, that's how—

how is he trying to make him a hoe?

Did I say anything that was like—

how was he— how, how was he trying to make him a hoe? How was he trying to make him a hoe? I never said it.

He's just trying to give him horrible advice. I don't know.

What was the advice?

What was the advice? No! No, he's just— everything that we would say about like what we think a man should do or how we'd like a man to be better. Yeah, and he was like nah, this, that's cap. Like this is, this is cap. But it's like we're telling him that this is what women would want and he's like no, that's cap. Oh no, some of it was belong.

So yeah, but when the NFL comes in, it's just like, yeah, I'll say loop that back to the NFL.

You guys live a fast life. You have a lot of girls.

So like, NFL life is a fast life.

It is a fast life. That's what I'm saying. NFL, NBA, it's all like— if you think of— if I think of an NBA player, I think of, you know, he travels every city, every zip code. He got a girl. I don't care if he's married or not, he got a girl. You can't—

I mean, he's having motion for sure.

He got mo— and, and You know, I've talked to a few of them, I've met a few of them. I know for a fact they got a girl in every single zip code. Sometimes they got little good contracts that, you know, girls can't speak up, so they just gotta—

But I think we gas the percentage of dudes that actually move like that, but there are so many men that don't.

Oh, let's talk about that.

We got— we gas the percentage of NFL niggas that be having crazy motion, just be doing wild shit. But there's so many dudes that are like— that don't be doing shit. They be going home to their family and playing the video game and don't be doing shit.

That part. And then y'all have to separate the elite, of course, on the bubble guy, you know what I mean? Like, I'm on—

I'm, I'm literally this.

One day I could be on the team, the next day I could fucking be at home. I wouldn't walking around like that. I barely want to be— but what do you— I feel like any time that you get some money, especially when you just make it to the NFL, don't you want to go blow it on some tables and stuff? And you just—

fuck no. Okay, because niggas be trying to fit a certain image of what they think an NFL nigga should be.

That part.

They get caught up in that.

Okay.

It's not really them being themselves. Right, that's the thing.

Exactly.

They trying to chase what that is.

Right.

We don't even really get to find out who they are.

I also had exposure to street life. Before. Exactly.

Which is a fact.

But when you haven't had exposure to a street life, when you were just trying to make it, when you come from nothing, you're trying to make it, like when they invite you to the tables, the next thing you see is pretty girls. I mean, that's just eye candy. Pretty girls is nothing new.

Huh? Pretty girls is nothing new.

High school. Not to you, but to men. Like, think about— so this is lame.

Okay, it do be ugly niggas in the league that—

yeah, and they be pulling some bitches though. They be pulling some hotties, huh?

The money make them cute for sure.

Oh, money. Oh yeah, money makes them cute. Hey, I ain't gonna lie, money makes them hot.

We need to get this pic— we need to get this picture removed. Tell the truth, period. Not lie better. What are we promoting here?

You don't like to lie?

We're not promoting integrity on this show.

We do.

We clip farming.

No, you know I don't do that. I mean, okay, I know what clip is gonna go. I'm not farming for it. I know what's gonna go. If I were to ask you, would you date a white woman, I bet you it's gonna get a million views.

No, it wouldn't.

It would.

I was married to a white woman. Ain't new news.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Like, it ain't going nowhere.

But, but, but Again, so now if I were to say, oh, after you divorced a white woman, would you date a white woman again?

Absolutely.

This feels like a reunion, guys. Oh my God, I love that. You guys have known each other since high school?

Yeah, that's good.

I know him since— you've known him too? 2017.

I've known Cali since 2012.

Okay, that's what I'm saying. That's why you can't fuck up with people in Atlanta.

I've known Garden since what, 2012? No, really, like, no, no, no, 2013. Yeah.

Why'd you move from Atlanta?

I started with iPhone, uh, to the league. I ain't had no choice, it worked.

But why don't you move back?

I'll be coming back to see my parents.

But like, you live in Vegas?

Yeah, I live in Vegas.

You don't want to come back?

I don't know. I've been here long enough, I feel like.

But I feel like Atlanta people don't want to move from Atlanta.

It's so different out there. It gave me a new appreciation for like nature and mountains and national parks and shit like that. Yeah. Maybe one day. I do appreciate the green, like being here, like it's, it definitely pops more. It's refreshing being back. But I think I like the fact that when I come back here, it's like, I appreciate being here when I'm here.

Huh. I appreciate being here too. I love Atlanta, but I used to live in the Bay and it was so not green.

Where in the Bay?

In the— I was in San Jose.

It's green out there.

No, not in the summer. The grass is not green because it's burned from the sun.

That's how grass works.

You didn't know that? Wait, you didn't know that?

Thought grass die in the winter, that's why it changed color.

No, so because there's— it's so sunny out there during the summer, if you go in the freeways, it's not green, it's like kind of like yellowish.

It's 114 in Vegas, how come that grass green? It was 105 yesterday.

But is it real grass though?

Yeah.

No, it's not. It's like the rolls that they put, it's like the fake grass.

They got turf too, but They got— she talking about the grass. What's your science—

y'all leave me the—

what's your science background to know that sun burned the grass and changed its color?

Look it up. Why do you think? Because it's like— so basically it's— it becomes like hay kind of looking. Think about if you— if you drive on like 280 or 101 in California— well, 280 is in the Bay, but like if you drive, it's like— it literally looks like hay. 'Cause it doesn't rain, so it gets burned. In Vegas, does it rain in the summer? It doesn't.

It don't rain ever. It might rain 10 times a year, maybe.

Right, so that's what I'm saying. But Vegas to me is like very desert looking.

It is smack dab in the middle of the desert.

You know, one time when I was in Vegas, actually I was there with my mom years ago, we stopped somewhere outside of Vegas, we stopped to like, I think I needed to replace a tire or something. And I walk into this place and this guy looked at me, he's like, How do you live being so tall?

How do you live?

How do you live being so tall? I was like, Vegas is different, man. This is just like—

You got some characters in Vegas for sure.

Yeah, like the Strip. I can be on the Strip, but other than that, even on the Strip, 24 hours I'm out. I can't do that.

Yeah, being a local, I'm like, I go to one place, I go to Zero Bond at the Wynn, and I got the private valet, so that shit like 5 feet from the whip when I hop out, so I don't even got to deal with none of that chaos.

Where do you go? What place?

Uh, it's called Zero Bond. It's at the Wynn.

Oh, okay. I've never been there.

It's like a social club. They had one in New York.

Oh, you know, it's been like a couple years since I went to Vegas, but it's like every time I go to Vegas, nothing good happens to me.

What's your Vegas itinerary looking like when you go to Vegas?

When I go to Vegas, we usually— we would stay at Aria or at the Wynn.

Yeah.

And— or Encore. And we would go to XS, obviously. Would go to—

you outside when you—

Encore, like beach club or whatever it's called. Um, yeah, usually it's just like going outside. Definitely would like go eat at Carbone or some of those restaurants.

Oh yeah, you want the generic—

yeah, like the basic, you know, the basic bitch package. Basically, that's what it is. That's what I call it. And I remember it got to the point where I told my friend, I said, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, what are we doing this for? Because I didn't have no social media back then.

Yeah, but you don't go on a hike or nothing? Get some, get some fresh air?

No. What? Just a bunch of—

we— I just drink water at the strip club.

I have not— like, I was drinking for 24 hours straight. And when I came home, I was like, I'm hungover. I was hungover for 3 days and I said, this is it. I'm not doing this. I went to work there one time. Like I had a conference out there.

Horrible conference for what?

I've been in sales my entire life. So it was like some sales conference that we did and it was just so boring. And it was like, I'm in Vegas with all this old ass people. And I'm like, man, this is not it. Like I wanna go out. I met a lot of athletes there.

Yeah, we was talking about that.

A lot of NFL players.

Yeah.

The fuck, boys?

Why you was getting on my man talking about NFL players? What's your definition of an NFL player? Break it down for me.

Okay, so there are two ways that I see it, right? It's a really hard sport. When I first went to the NFL game, I said, it's ridiculous. The sound when you guys hit the ground is ridiculous. Like, this is not humane. When it's like the, whatever it's called, when you clash for the score.

It's literally not humane. I remember we had a game in Pittsburgh. It was negative degrees. PETA was talking about bring your pets inside because it's inhumane to have your pets outside, but it's humane for us to be out there playing for people's entertainment.

That's ridiculous. No, I don't understand that because I remember my friend went to Green Bay for one of those, you know, playoff games or whatever they're called. I don't know nothing about football. I just, I remember she had like 15 layers and she was like, we literally were so cold that we couldn't even sit down because it was snowing. It, it like was ice and everything. I'm like, this is This is crazy.

Yeah, it's—

but you chose that.

I did choose it.

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This is what we were talking about before the cameras came on.

You are.

I think we gas a certain small—

Court, go away. I just heard it.

Right. Some bullshit. You can't help but pop in on this bullshit.

Court just got back in. I just heard it. He heard it from— from the first floor. Oh shit. Cord, you're not a hoe. You're a good guy.

Thank you.

I appreciate you. I'll see you later.

I think we under— I think we do undermine how many NFL players there are that are faithful and that live normal lives and that don't live this fast lifestyle. There are certainly a number of them that do, but there's, I would say, probably even like half. Like, I think we gas that number like it's every single one. There's a lot of dudes that be having emotion, whatever they be doing, but it's a lot of dudes that go home to their wife, have kids, just play the video game, just play with the kids, and have a were in life.

I mean, but you know, nobody wants to talk about the— we want to talk about the outrageous.

Now we want to talk about that shit.

Yeah, we don't want to talk about people who were going home to their wives, cuz that's like, okay, there's nothing to talk about. I mean, maybe it's actually going to be something that's outstanding these days, because every time we go on social media, you know, cheating and like, it's, it's like a normal thing now. Not being faithful is a normal thing. There's nobody wants to get married anymore. Nobody wants to have families anymore. Everybody just wants to be outside and live for themselves.

And have another discussion of like the non-monogamy.

Yeah, the— oh, that's an Atlanta thing. Hey, listen, I did not know that people have 3 girlfriends at the same time. I'm like, damn. I even tried it one time, you know.

How did that— how did that go?

Horrible. It didn't— it didn't go well. It was not a good experience.

It does seem exhausting, cuz it's like—

it is exhausting.

You're trying to have an intimate connection with one person is already like a drain, I feel like.

And the problem is that he could not tell the truth and he couldn't lie better.

You gotta have one or the other.

But I think like everything that you see here has transpired from that relationship. Talk Less was about that, and, uh, Tell the Truth or Lie Better was literally from that. Because I'm like, I don't know what the fuck.

Does he get production credits?

Fuck no, he don't get shit. He owes me money. You don't get nothing. But yeah, but that's what I think. Like, I actually, I had Torrey Craig on, the NBA player, and I said the same thing. When I think about an NBA player, I think about cheating, lying, and all of that. Cause it's like, all you see is them outside. Maybe because I kind of had an experience with that life. So I've seen them, right? And I've seen them in the field, you know, outside of the basketball courts, which I also understand. Like when you got money, you are, you know, over 6 feet tall, you look good. You're, you know, it don't matter. I mean, good, right? Because you got money, you look good a lot of times. But like some of them are just tall and hot, you know? And it's like, of course you could, you could be in any DM and the chances are girls are going to respond to your DMs.

That's accurate.

Yeah. So how is it, how are NFL players not hoes? They are.

No, there's a, there's a good handful of hoes. But we also live in a world where the media shapes a certain perception and idea of like, this is who they are and we're going to continue to pump this. Like how many wholesome men. Like you said, people don't want to hear about that shit, but there's plenty of dudes in the locker room I know that don't do nothing but play football, watch the film on their iPad, and go home and play with their kids, or go fishing, or do whatever they do. Like me playing music, like, I don't do shit for real.

Okay, and I think that's why, you know, obviously we can make all this clip farming and talk about all this, host NFL players and all that, but like, you definitely are a different person. From what I've seen online.

And I've had, I feel like I've had different experiences that have gotten me out of, I feel like a lot of the NFL players, they see the template of like what an NFL player should be and they try to fit that as opposed to trying to be themselves. So they think like, it's like, all right, I gotta have Louie everything. I gotta have the, I gotta have a hoe. I gotta be flying somebody out. I gotta be in a section. I gotta be doing these certain sets of things because I'm in this status. I'm in this place now. Whereas like I've had life experiences that have pulled me all the way out of trying to be who I think I should be and be like, all right, you got to like build your own life now, right?

So I think, and I think this is not just like athletes or NFL players or whoever it is, I think it's in general people are now going with the flow because social media has fucked us up. Let's be for real, it's, it's, it's crazy because people are not trying to get to know themselves or live a better life. They're trying to get to a private jet, a Birkin bag, you know, Louis Vuitton, trying to get your aura right, trying to get your aesthetic Right. Everything is about the, you know, the outside. And when you talk about emotional connection, when you talk about real things that have— that really touch your soul, people say, oh no, this is a joke. You know, everybody wants to fuck. Like, everything goes back to sex, which is ridiculous to me. And, um, I have a lot of comedians on, they always make fun of me for that because I'm like, you know, sometimes you might have a bad day, I can just give you a hug. And they're like, no, they want to fuck you. I'm like, that's not the reality of it. Some people just want a hug.

Right. They think sex is the way to deal with a certain issue or deal with a certain problem. But that's not necessarily the case. You just associate that with solving your problem when really it's like, is it really? It's just distracting you for a couple minutes.

How did you get to all of that? Because that's, that's what I want to get into. Because you said there is, there's a couple interviews that you've done that I was watching and something that really stood out to me that you said that I was trying to check off all the boxes when I got married.

Yeah.

But now my question is, who created those boxes for you?

Which is a great question, which is the, the million-dollar question, I feel like. Uh, I mean, the society we live in, to a degree, because it's like the boxes are like performance, um, accomplishment, accumulation of things has meant success in America. We may not consciously say that, but like We are unconsciously formed to believe that and act that way. So many people like grind to be the doctor, grind to be the lawyer, grind to be this, this, and that because it's like when I get to that place, I'm seen as this. I'm accepted. I'm like, I get the pat on the back. Like people who have like the dad that never always was shitting on them. It's like, oh, I'm proud of you now because you achieved this thing. And so we're always achieving from this place of like once I get there, I'm gonna be good. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be all right. And so it's like, for me, I bought into that too, naturally. Like, I feel like you have to try hard to not buy into that. You had to work hard to unplug from that matrix. And for me, it was like, you know, plus I was a kid growing up. I was like trying to find my way to fit into the world. I was really like insecure, sensitive as a kid, like just real different, kind of weird, nerdy. Like, so I'm just like, I want to be like in the mix. I want to be cool. I want to be just one of. With the people around me.

Yeah.

So it was like, I, I resorted to what do I need to do? Who do I need to be to be accepted by these groups? And the performance aspect of things came early on. I was like, if I'm good at football, that's my way in.

Mm-hmm.

And so it's like, and I knew I had like a, a gift and a feel for that. And I just was like, I'm gonna just keep plugging in, keep finding a way to play in college, play in high school, play in the league. Like, oh, make some money. Oh, now like I'm in this place where it's like, I'm one of those dudes that growing up, the women wasn't really always there for me until I started getting that level of attention. And so then it's like, you can overcompensate in that way because it's like, oh, I didn't really get that attention, so now I can do whatever I want. Or it's like, yeah, it's just, it's a lot of shit like that that I'm unplugging because I was going off of somebody else's boxes, somebody else's definition of success. And then you get to highest paid contract for anybody that played my position in the history of the league at that time. Power couple marriage, um, you know, all these things. And it's still like, man, like, it's just that hole is still big. It's still like, it's still there. I can't act like it's not.

So how did you, how did you even get to the point where, okay, it's not that the marriage is not making me happy, it's just I am unhappy. I like, there's a void that I have to fill in. Like, how did it come to you?

Um, I think, um, so I got married March of '23, went on a honeymoon. The day I got back from the honeymoon, I got traded to New York, so I got shipped across the country. And, uh, shipped?

Come on, no. Okay, I hope you flew.

But, uh, but, um, so, and, uh, my wife at the time, she was playing basketball, so she was, um, in Vegas. So I'm out there in New York, I'm like, all right, I've gotten this big contract, I got dealt away from a place where I was like, I built some community, built friendships, built like, I feel like I'm kind of building this life. And then it's like, I get shipped out there and I'm like on my own in a new place I ain't been before. Just like starting to like question like, all right, like why, why am I still doing this? I feel like I had a, from 2017, 2018 up till about 2022, I feel like I had like, was connected to this why for a while I was playing football and like this deep motivation for like, I know why I'm here. And after I got to that point where I signed that big deal and all that stuff, I just got to this point where I'm like, I don't know what's left in this for me. Thoughts started to creep into my brain because I wasn't like this kid. I was like, everybody knew I was going to the league. I kind of just like found my way in and just kept clawing and, and just made a career for myself. But it was just like, I didn't think I would even get this far. Like, so this is kind of just like, I don't even know what to do with my hands here. And then sitting out there and realizing like, okay, like we've been dealt a tough hand early on in the marriage. Like this is where more intentionality comes into place, more of an urgency to keep building on what's been here. And it's like in those moments I realized like, damn, I don't necessarily really like want to do that. And then it's like, well, damn, like we damn sure rushed into this shit. Like I feel like I just, we rushed past like really truly getting to know like the deep dark stuff about each other. And, um, it's just like, oh, fuck. Like, how did I get here? And then that, those thoughts just started to snowball. And I went through the season and then I had like a really bad health scare, uh, that 2023 in November. I have like a, basically a long story short, I had a viral infection in my lungs and had to get taken to the hospital. I was in the hospital for like 3 days and was just down bad and just like, kind of like sitting in the hospital bed, like, like, what am I doing? Like, the boxes are checked. We're here again. Like, this is like the, second or third installment of the boxes being checked. And it's just like, I can put the smile on, we could tell jokes, we could show you I'm having a good time. But like, when I get by myself in my room, in my car, going on a walk, I'm just like, something ain't— something ain't there, something ain't right.

But it wasn't because— because, you know, sometimes, like, I, I have kind of certain experiences with mental health too. Like, I have, you know, I'm very prone to anxiety. I've been like diagnosed with depression multiple times and all that shit. And yeah, obviously, like, when I'm by myself, if I think, man, I can go far with thinking. And like, I just went through this experience where I was, I was dating somebody, and then like every time we're not together, it's just, it feels like I'm alone. And it feels like I, I couldn't figure out if it wasn't him not filling the void, or it's just, it just felt like it was like two different people trying. Whenever they're together, it's good, but when we're separate, it's just, it's hell. Like, it's just, it doesn't feel good. And my anxiety started going up and up and up and up, and I was I gotta pull the plug cuz I can't do this cuz this is just— and the moment I pulled the plug, I stopped talking, you know, we just, we kind of went separate ways. I'm back at peace and I'm like, I don't know if it's the relationship or if it's me or whatever it is, or if I attach my worth to his validation. I don't know what it is, but it was like dangerous to be in that.

It's a, it's a, a mix, like a cocktail of all that stuff for for me too, right? Similar, like the validation. Like I said, growing up, like the validation from the women and then like, um, learning, like doing the work, like, uh, my relationship with my mom. My mom was like super firm and like, um, demanded a lot from like my sister and I, like held us to a high standard, but it was almost in a way to where it was like, I feel like I fear my mom more than I love my mom. So it was like this way of like, how do I do things to get validation from women? Started with my mom in a way, right? And kind of spilled over into the relationships. And it's like, that creates a whole fucking cycle.

But it's like, yeah, but I feel like it's also the attachment that you get, right? And it's like, I feel the same way because, you know, I grew up in Russia and I was playing tennis my entire life and my value and my worth was tied to the numbers. It's, you know, do you get the first place? Do you get the third place? My mom wasn't really strict about that. She just wanted me to play. And so it's kind of now it was my own idea that I got to make it, I got to do well. And when I wasn't doing well, I was like, Man, I'm worthless, I'm nobody, I'm nothing. And it's just, you start beating yourself down cuz I mean, you're a kid, you don't know otherwise. And then if you don't get good grades, now you're not smart, you're dumb, you're this, you're that. So it's like everything that you are doing is attached to numbers.

100%.

And when I moved here, I got my first job. My first like corporate job was in sales. What is that? Attaching to numbers. If you don't hit your quotas, you don't make no money. If you don't hit a quota, you don't make no money, and then you're gonna get fired. So now it's like everything that you do, it's got to like— numbers got to make sense. Even like having a podcast, it's numbers. If the numbers don't do well, you don't make no money.

I remember the moment where the numbers thing kind of shattered for me. There was 2020 was like my peak year in football. Like I was like— and I had a game where I had like 200 yards in the game. And if you had 200 yards receiving in a football game, it's like I would say it's like a 50 or 60-point basketball game is the equivalent. And, um, the first practice back from that game on Wednesday, you know, you kind of line up, you kind of warm up, catch a couple passes before you get into like the competitive drills against the defense. And, uh, there was like nobody on defense. I line up for a route and I was like, my mind went, uh, all right, don't drop this pass. And I was like, I was like, hmm, it's like interesting because I'm coming off a game where I literally caught every single thing that was thrown my way and like couldn't be stopped in like a historical level. But here I am 2 days later back at practice thinking like, if I drop this pass, I'm out of here. Why did I start building this house? If I drop this pass, like, like, yeah, it's like, okay, I'm still one drop away, still one error away, still one like bad day or week of numbers from nobody giving a fuck anymore or being forgotten when it's like I've worked so hard to claw myself here to be seen and be acknowledged and be like, yeah, he's, he's like that. And it's like that. And in that moment I was like, damn, like the numbers won't fill it up. Like it'll just, it's like just pouring into a cup and the cups, but the cup's got a hole in the bottom. It's like, it ain't never gonna, ain't never gonna do it.

And it hasn't even happened yet. But you already predetermined that, that everything is fail. I, I'm the same way. Like I literally like sometimes I would, it's, that's why it's hard to work with me, especially in business sense, because I will sit and complain and complain and complain. 'Cause like I already predetermined things and I'm like, wait, hold the fuck up. We're here. We're, you're talking about like 20 years from now, but like you already predetermined everything. And you know what they say, when you do that, then you actually manifest your reality. So I have to always constantly catch myself, be like, uh-uh, let's get back to projecting, projecting everything from the inside.

Yeah, creating your world from that. Yeah, 100%.

But how, like, and it's funny because I'm sure people are going to say, how can you, how can you be insecure? You know, you got money, you're over 6 feet, you know, because, right, height matters.

But I feel like people don't know, like, the fuel for someone being able to achieve those things was that insecurity. Right. It's like, cause you can say like, oh, there's no way he could be. But it's like, that was the fuel that made him think like, I can't ever fail, which turns into, oh man, he's killing it. But it's really just somebody on the inside that's like, the moment I fail is the moment nobody gives a fuck anymore, or nobody cares anymore, or I'm not worthy of having a platform or a following anymore. The moment I don't live up to somebody's standards of me. And it's like, It great. It makes for great results, but it's like, damn, that person is suffering. Like, they cut the camera on and it's like, it's balling, everybody is lit, but we don't know what's going on behind the camera. That's where the social media shit comes in. It's like everybody, motherfuckers killing it on the phone, but like, what about off the phone? What if you catch them in person? What about when they sit in their car by themselves? It's like, yeah, does that shit matter more? Because that shit matters more to me.

Of course. Yeah, that's why, you know, when I have my platform, I'ma just be real how it is. If I'm sad, I'ma just say I'm sad. If I'm crying, I'm be like, listen, I'm crying because I can't just show you highlights. It's not realistic. My day is not highlights. And there's some days when I'm just quiet, you know, I don't wanna speak because I just, I just don't wanna speak, you know? And it's not cuz we're human. And I feel like, well, we've created, the society has created that we have to be so perfect that we have to, you know, check the boxes like you said. That's why when you said that, I was like, damn, this is so, this is so true. Cuz it's like now society tells you what you should do, what you shouldn't do. Even like as far as the marriage, you know, Now it's a new narrative. Nobody should get married. Everybody should learn themselves. Everybody should stay single. But at the same time, like, we need connection as people.

100%.

And, you know, and it's— I don't— do you want to get married again or no?

I'm open. I'm definitely open to the idea. I feel like in getting married before, I don't know if I did enough work on myself and really truly discovered, like, if that's what I actually want. I think it's just like that natural current just took me in that direction. It's because I care about this person. We have very similar lives. Like, it looks so good on paper. It was just like, boom, off to the races instead of being like, is this something that I actually want to do? Yeah, it's just the person that I actually want to do it with, like, put all the fantasies aside. So like, now I feel like I'm doing the work to where I can actually investigate that question and be like, hmm, like, I'm open to— I'm not like, ah, nah, no, no marriage. But like, I'm looking at like, okay, like, there are some things I think I would like about it, but let me not continue to make decisions because I feel like this is what I should be doing as a member of this society.

Because you're anxious and because you feel like, okay, this is like, I got to get it now.

Yeah. And then it's like this thing that I feel like where I feel like trapped in something, right? That I feel like it's kind of permeated most of my life. Like there's a lot of— I was out of football a year. I retired from football a year. Like it's like this feeling like being trapped in that. Lifestyle is the same thing as like being trapped in the marriage. It's like, well, what if I want to be done with this? What if I don't want to continue to do this? It's like, well, I got to evaluate, hmm, like what's my commitment level of like just consciously like me? What do I want to do as opposed to feeling like I should be playing ball because I've been playing ball my whole life and I'm good at it. Like, great. Like I've been putting that grind in forever. And then with the marriage, it's like, oh, I feel like I should be doing this. Like that should is what's keeping me hitting this wall and feeling like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing with my life. Like, it shouldn't be what I should be doing. It should be like, what do I actually feel aligned with doing?

Did you ever feel like you couldn't be honest with your partner? I, and I'm not specifically saying, you know, the marriage or just in any relationships. Did you feel like you had to be a performative person in front of them? Performative to the extent where, okay, now I know what they like, what they love. So let me do that instead of doing what I also like and what I love. So we can come, you know, in the middle, right?

Yeah, no, 100%. Um, yeah, because I mean, the performing part came so much of heart, my nature, just as a kid. Like I talked about with like my mom, like if I perform for my mom, like I'm good, like I'm cool at home. I don't gotta get the belt, I don't gotta get grounded, I don't get like stuff like that. If I perform for, uh, my peers in some way, it's like I can be in this group, I can be in this group for girls, like, and even in that marriage, it's like I feel like I need to perform, like orbit around this person to make sure they're okay. And if they cool, then I'm cool. When it really is like, it should be two people that are okay coming together and then creating something new, which I don't think that was what we were. So, and then it's like that pressure of like, I grew up, I grew up Christian. She's Christian. And it's like that what comes together can't be torn apart kind of thing. And it's just like, wrestling with my faith and how I, how I view the higher power in my life. It's like, I don't know if I necessarily, because that's like a feeling of like another layer of being trapped in this. So I can't be honest about, hey, I don't know, I feel like we might have sped into this, or, or thoughts like that. I feel like I'm not allowed to say that because it's like I'm gonna get struck down, I'm going to hell type of thoughts and feelings too, you know. So it's, uh, It's a lot of layers of why I don't feel like I can just keep it real with you. And just because I've been super isolated my whole life, like emotionally, like never really truly been vulnerable. I started being more vulnerable once I got like sober and stuff like that, but my default is not putting it all out there for somebody. It's like kind of selective vulnerability.

Yeah, but I feel like that's normal for a lot of men.

Yeah.

Especially Black men.

For sure.

You can't, like, even like the person that I was talking to for a while, I remember I had to literally sit him down and I just said, I need you to tell me how you feel. I don't want no jokes. I don't want no deflection. Tell me how you feel because then not how you feel towards me, just as a person, how do you feel right now in this moment? And then he opened up and he said, you know, I just feel like I've been used and people are just, you know, using me, whatever it was, the scenario. And I just, I was I was like, damn, cuz you would look at him and you would think everything is fine, right? There's nothing going on. Everything is good. He is very nice. People love him. People adore him. But you could see, cuz at some point I'm like, man, there's some, some sort of pain going on, but I don't know what it is. And it really got to a point where I was like, I'mma need you to sit. I'mma be quiet. Just tell me what it is. But you know, it's, it's hard when you have to do that because again, like any friendship relationship, it's work. So it gets to the point where you really have to sit somebody down or somebody has to go through some tough life decisions like addiction or whatever that is. And it's, you know, I feel like a lot of people probably like put the label on you now that you were like an addict.

Yeah. And that's, I don't really, I don't like that because it's like, okay, yeah, I did that before, but now it's been, it's actually been an interesting development with that as you, uh, bring that up because really I feel like, um, getting into getting sober, I feel like it's definitely a decision that has enhanced my life, and I'm not changing that. But the— on the level of like the identification, like you talked about, like, yeah, like, it's like now, like, I have— like, now I'm exploring, like, how much do I play into that? Because I feel like going into these rehab programs that, you know, I think identifying as that would allowed me to be able to stay committed and do what I needed to do to lay that new foundation for my life and build a new pattern neurologically, like, for my body, to where it's like, all right, like, we don't need this to cope with life anymore. Um, but now as I've explored deeper into, like, the childhood stuff, like, trauma stuff, um, parts work, like, so many different modalities, it's like I feel like the addictive behaviors I developed in my life stemmed from a lot of, um, unaddressed, um, pain and things like that from early on in my life that I'm starting to unveil and take a look at more so than it was like I was born with this disease because it kind of like goes hand in hand with the— like I said, I don't identify as Christian anymore. I don't have a problem with Christianity. I just don't feel like aligning with one religious team works for me anymore. And so it's like the same parallel in Christianity where it's like we're broken, original sin. It's like I'm already a shame factory. Like, I don't need any extra shame to pour. Like, I'm trying to like change that. So it's, um, looking at the term like, am I an addict? Like, I think I'm prone to using things addictively if I'm not necessarily aligned with my values and being able to like advocate for myself if I need to say something to my partner, I can say that to them, like, use my voice, like, things of that nature. Then I'm prone to using things addictively. But investigating, like, am I actually, like, this addict with this disease is something that's like, I'm not firmly planted on that anymore as I was at one point in my life.

It's— I love how people put labels on people, right? Because What I see now, you know, I don't drink anymore as the way that I used to drink. Like, I used to— we used to drink, and at first it sounded as if we're going out, we're having fun. Now it's an addiction. It's an addiction. And people don't understand that when you go out, you get a drink or two, it's an addiction because you can't enjoy your life, you can't enjoy your environment sober. And if you can't enjoy it sober— because at first I remember for me was, well, I'm crazy because I want tequila. Then I'm like, I'm just crazy. Like, let's just be for real. Like, okay, this is just— it just enhances a little bit, you know. But I am what I am without it. And so I needed to, to drink so I can say, oh yeah, I'm just doing this because I'm drinking. Because it was an excuse, right? You know, and so it's easy for people to say, oh, okay, somebody used those drugs, so we're gonna put a label on them. A lot of people smoke weed, they don't understand that that's an addiction. They can't go a day without smoking weed. They can't go a day without smoking cigars. It's an addiction.

Yeah, there's a— I heard an author once say in a book, he called them, uh, socially acceptable narcotics. And so it's like It could be weed. It could be— some people can't go a day without ordering an Amazon package. Some people can't go a day without shopping. Some people can't go a day without DraftKings parlays. Like those are the— and those are like the socially acceptable ones to where it's like, for me, I snort Perc 30s, I drink alcohol, I pop Xanax. Somebody's gonna tell me you have a problem, you need to go to rehab. And I'm grateful that it was something to where it's like, damn, like the league banned me from a year— for a year. Like I had to go get help. But what about these people that just go out and it's like they need to drink to feel like they can talk to people, or they need to smoke weed to feel like they can have some peace on a day-to-day basis. Like, nobody's telling them, you got to get your shit together. They're just kind of just floating in that lifestyle. And before you know it, decades, years go by, decades go by, and you're— it's gonna be harder for you to pull yourself out of that lifestyle, um, when you do feel that conviction to change, like, because you've been in it for so long. And nobody's there to be like, hey, you need to get help. Like, that's the blessing of my circumstances. People was like, nigga, you tweaking, like, you need help. And so I went and got that help. But now it's like, many people are having the same kind of mechanisms as me. Like, they addicted to these things. I was addicted to those things.

Phone.

Yeah, the phone.

Social media.

Top tier. Like, ours. Yeah. They building these phones and these apps for you to be addicted to them. Like, it's wild.

It is. It is. And that's why it's so— because when I was looking at some of the episodes that you've done before, everything Everything goes back to addiction, and obviously it's a conversation that everybody wants to hear, but at the same time, how can you slap a label on somebody? Okay. Like that's a thing of the past. You've moved on. Now I think the better conversation to have is the commitment to, to, to yourself and to your lifestyle that you're making right now. 'Cause now we don't have to beat you, beat you up for your choices. You've done them. I mean, shit, you've taken accountability. Yeah.

And now you're a lot of, a lot of questionable choices.

Right. And I think the other question is finding the right therapy and finding the right solution, I guess, because, you know, a lot of people try, but they can't figure it out. Like, I remember myself too. I had a therapist for a while and it just, it wasn't working. Like, it wasn't doing nothing. And I don't know if it was me not wanting to get help or just it wasn't really the right choice for me. But I think like you still have to start with something where it's gonna get you to the level where you want to get help. You want to change, you want to get to know yourself. You want to sit in that pain cuz it is pain.

Yeah.

All of it that we are addressing, anxiety, whatever, love, relationships, everything is painful. And so if you don't sit in it, then the first thing you do is, oh, let's go get drunk. Let's go. If you broke up with a guy, let's go fuck somebody else. That's not gonna fix nothing.

No, I thought until you sit with that, whatever that pain is for whoever it may be, I think sitting with that pain and like, um, being with whatever comes up from that is like the initiation for you into like the next phase of your life, like the next level for you. Like everybody's trying to like level up, but like I don't think you can level up if you don't sit with whatever that pain is for you because you're just gonna keep carrying it wherever. You go. And, uh, that's why it's like, I feel like we have on social media so many like, what was being their 50s, but they boys, they're teenagers, women, like, uh, like all people, like, and it's not like there, there's anything inherently wrong with them. I'm not saying like, like people use immature in such a negative connotation when really it's like the immaturity is the lack of maturity that needed to take place because you didn't have the tools necessarily to to sit with, grieve, and walk through whatever that pain is. Like, we just, we live in a life, in a society of like, we distract ourselves. We'll go to Netflix and watch a whole fucking season, like, knowing damn well that pain's sitting there and it ain't going nowhere. And the universe gonna keep teaching you the same lessons, keep bringing you the same circumstances in order for you to walk through that so you can be initiated into like the next phase of your life. But I don't think a lot of people see it that way.

No, I don't think so. I think a lot of people don't want to, because that's the— the easiest thing is to not address it. The easiest thing is to just—

much easier choice—

shut it down, just, you know, put it somewhere, you know, instead of cleaning it up, because nobody, nobody wants to do that. That's work. I mean, even the, the whole idea with marriage, it's work. It's not— any relationship, any friendship that you have, even your job, it's work. You have to invest into it, and you have to be committed to it. And not always is going to be a good season, you know?

Yeah.

Like my friend, she always says, she says every relationship is going to go through winter and it's going to be dark and it's going to be cold. And how are you going to come together?

Ain't no spring without it.

Right. That's what I'm saying. And the spring too, you know, and then the fall. We need the season of darkness because when the seeds, they grow in the darkness, right? That's when you put in the soil. So for them to bloom, you have to go through that. But I don't think people want to do it anymore. And I promise you, because even, you know, seeing the social media stuff, because those are the conversations I like to have. But like I told you, if you— if I were to have those conversations to begin with when I started my podcast, nobody was watching. Nobody cares because this is something that they have to sit down with and they have to be like, damn, is that— because now you have to look in the mirror. Who wants to look in the mirror? Because the easiest thing to say is he, she, they, you know, we can point— everybody else is wrong. I'm good. I'm perfect. Everything is great here. Meanwhile, your house is dirty as hell, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a sign that I've learned even with me. Like, I don't— I feel like that I've noticed like a silent judgmentalness of others, but it's like really because I'm so judgmental and like harsh and perfectionistic of myself. But learning how I can tell everybody about, comment on what everybody else got going on, tell them they shouldn't be doing this, they need to be doing this, why did they do that, is really like another way of distracting myself from looking at what I have going on. Because sure, people are going to go out there and, and shit the bed sometimes, like, and do whatever the fuck they do, but it's like that's what people are gonna do in order to learn and be like, ah, like, ah damn, I don't need to be doing that shit. I need to— okay, that's how you, that's how you course correct. We so busy picking people apart for what they doing. It's like, yeah bro, you got all type of shit going on over here. You just got an anime character as your profile picture and we don't get to see none of your life. It's just you sitting in that mess. But I don't know.

All right, let's do the introduction. I know we do the introduction thing 3 hours into the conversation.

That was just the intro.

Yeah, we're going to do the introduction and then we're going to continue the conversation because we got, we got a couple more things I want to talk to you about. There's a lot. Listen, I printed out a lot of stuff. Hey, we can sit here.

I didn't do no, I didn't do no homework.

Don't, you don't need to. That's why you come here. All right, you guys, welcome back to Talk Less Show where conversations clearly go deeper than the surface. And today's guest is a former NFL Pro Bowl tight end. Are you still going back or no?

Are you still playing? Yeah, I'm still— I'm trying. I've been training Monday through Friday since the Super Bowl. I'm just waiting to see where I'm going. So I'm— ain't no former, I'm still in it.

He is a current NFL player, so, uh, excuse me. Um, on paper, he's lived a life most people would trade places with in a heartbeat. Playing in the NFL, making millions, becoming one of the biggest names in football, and reaching levels of success that most people only dream about. But what's fascinated me about his story isn't the football. It's that despite all these accomplishments, he's also been incredibly honest about addiction, loneliness, identity, relationships, and the reality that success doesn't always make you feel the way without, um, the way you thought it would. How does someone achieve everything they thought they wanted and still find themselves searching for something more? So today we're gonna talk about football, fame, purpose, human connection, and what it actually means to feel alive. Darren Waller, welcome to Talk Less Show.

Appreciate you having me.

I love it. I love that Court said that, hey, this guy has a crazy story. You need to get him on.

Yeah, it's wild. I was just, I was catching up with Cord in the lobby for probably like 10 minutes and it got cut short. But he, 'cause I haven't seen him since 2017 and that was, 2017 was the time where I was suspended from the league for a year and had to go to rehab and then I got a job at Sprouts and I had just got back into doing my football training and there was a time at Campbell High School over in Smyrna, we was, doing some field workouts. There was DBs on one side of the field and then me and my receiver trainer, shout out to Quay, who was on the other side of the field.

What's DB?

So defensive backs are the— so you know why receivers catch passes?

No.

Okay, keep it real simple.

I don't even know what a quarterback does. I just know the word.

So football, there are people that catch passes.

Okay.

The DBs are the people that guard the people that catch passes.

Oh, okay. The ones that make them not catch it.

Okay.

Yeah, I see.

I see. Basically. And so Cora was out there. He was still playing at that time. And I haven't seen him since then. It's been almost a decade and we were catching up and man, his story is crazy too. But to come from that situation, like I didn't think I would even want to play football again. I was getting back into my training and thinking like, okay, like I still got some left in the tank, but I never thought I'd play in a game again, much less be somebody introduced as football success and greatness and Pro Bowls like that at that time when I, first met Kord, none of that shit was in my mind. Everybody was possible.

Everybody who's came on because I had Cam Newton on too. Cam is like one of the most humble people I've ever met in my life. Literally just, just, just another guy from Atlanta. The coolest guy ever. And he always says, I don't understand why people look at me like Cam Newton. I'm like, because you're Cam Newton. I mean, I don't know shit about football. 2015, I heard your name, right?.

But I could look at somebody now, cuz I remember Cam Newton, like the legend that he was, like going juco Auburn and like all that stuff, like legendary. But it's like, he been through some things, like experience, and it's like taking a deeper look at himself. So I can totally understand why it's like, why do people look at me? Cuz I like, I'm landing here in Atlanta and the dude two seats over was like, man, I didn't wanna bother you, bro, but I love Georgia Tech and I drafted you in my fantasy so many times. And, and it's just like, Not that there's anything wrong with that because it's like, it's a way for people to connect, which I think is cool. But at the same time, I'm like, why do people look at me? Like there's a dude on, uh, on Chamblee Road backpedaling, back driving, backing up in reverse where traffic is coming just so he could be like, hey bro, like I fuck with you. Like I fuck with what you been through. Like you, you was great. Like, and gave me his car for like, uh, he's a chef. And I'm just like, it's still hard for me to resonate with how people come up to me like that because I just feel like I'm a normal person that's just been walking through life and experiencing all these things. Like, like, look, he's at Juco, bro. I couldn't imagine going to Juco. That shit was probably like football hell.

I went to Juco. I played tennis there.

How was that?

I was an All-American. The best experience I ever had. I, to this day, I will say Juco was better education than my 4-year college education. I went to Santa Clara University after and I graduated Juco with 3.8 GPA or something. Like I did really well.

What Juco you went to?

I went to Foothill College in California, in the Bay, right next to Stanford. We actually had professors from Stanford teaching.

Oh, you went to a nice Juco.

Oh, I went to one of the best Juco. I didn't even know. It was the most random thing in the world.

You dudes going to football Juco. That ain't, that ain't no, that ain't no vacation.

We had people go to Stanford, transfer from that Juco to Stanford.

That's dope.

So, and there are some football players too who, you know, went to schools and they did really well. Some tennis players that played on the teams and then they went to, you know, Berkeley and stuff. Yeah, they did really well. It was kind of like the Ivy League of JUCOs.

Shout out to the tennis JUCOs for sure.

We, so I actually was, my team was the one that I was on. We were the first ones to bring them to, you know, to the level because they've never made it to the state. They never made it to nothing. And so when I came on, somehow we just, we just, the team just kind of was great. Like we literally made history with that. So it was, it was great. But I didn't even think because I came to America, I was I was thinking I'm just gonna go to college for, you know, I was gonna go for a semester and I was like, I'm going back to Europe, I don't want to be here. And then I kind of got stuck.

Yeah, dude, from what I've heard from being around teammates that have been to JUCOs, and I'm sure Cam Newton will attest to it, is like you trying to get out that motherfucker as quick as possible and get to your next stop because it's like something, something brought you there and you're trying to like, you, and you have the potential to go somewhere different. And it's like, so the football JUCO is more like I ain't really trying to be here, but it sounds like you had an experience like this was an amazing experience. I just, it ain't a normal—

I didn't know anything else. To me it was, and I think that's why it was such a great experience, because I had no idea anything else existed. I come from Russia. I don't know nothing about those D1 schools, universities, college teams, you know, cheerleading, all that shit. I didn't know nothing. Like, they gave me a tennis racket, they gave me tennis shoes. I was blessed. Straight up. I had no— I mean, I had a coach. I was like, wait, I don't have to pay for a coach? Wait, what? This— like, I was like, man, I'm about to use this shit. Like, this is great. I was practicing for 5 hours a day. 5 hours a day in Russia, I would have been broke the first day. Like, ain't no way I could have afforded that. There's no way.

Power perspective.

But that's what I'm saying. It's a power perspective. So, and again, like, seeing kids who went from that juco to Berkeley to Stanford to all these top schools, Harvard, like, man, Cornell. There's so many schools. It was incredible. I cannot say a bad thing. Shout out to Foothill College. Still to this day, Foothills, my favorite place to be. Now, everybody who comes on the show, they answer this one question: if there's one thing you can talk less about, what would it be? Maybe do more of.

So what would I talk less about and what would I do more of?

Mm-hmm.

I want to talk less about fantasy football with fans. That's probably 75% of my human interaction in public with people I don't know. It's like, you won, because like that's my crazy years of fantasy football, getting a whole bunch of points for people. And that's like, they see that as like, they may not have as much to relate on with me, but they're like, hey man, you won me some, you won me money, or you won me my league, or all these things and it's like, it's cool, but it's just like, bro, like I'm human. I got rather like, I think people don't understand from my standpoint. It doesn't feel like, like when they do that and they ask for the picture, it doesn't feel like connection. It feels a little bit like transaction.

Of course.

You know what I'm saying? And it's like, not that, not that they mean any harm in any way, but it's just like, yo, you in my league. Can I get the pic? It's like, bet. And then like we part ways and it's just like, Was I just used? Like, kind of. So it's like, I wish, like, do more of is just like be able to have a moment where it's like I connect with those people on a real level. But it's such a brief conversation. So it's like, I don't even know how to approach that for real.

Why do you think people are so obsessed with football in this country?

I keep going back to how conditioned we are in this country to appreciate certain things, do certain things. And football is one of those. I mean, it's the ancient like gladiator sport, like, and hold these men that put their bodies on the line and do this crazy thing, like, because it's nuts out there. It's fucking real warfare out there. And to like conquer that, the warrior that conquers that environment, that's like a, for centuries, thousands of years we've, in human societies, we've held those men in high regard. And so in America, it's like football, it's been around since the '40s, like, or however long it's been around. And it owns a day of the week, like all the big corporations are sponsored with it. So it's just like, it's very like all, it's so propped up. And I think like, put in celebrity culture in this country as well. It's like, you have men twice your age that see you and they're like, look like girls when they see Chris Brown, you know what I'm saying? Okay. It's a—

Okay, I don't know why I just had an image of Kevin Hart in my head, but hey, I love you, Kevin Hart. Do not come at me.

I don't wanna get roasted. It's really interesting. I don't really, it's hard for me to understand fandom 'cause I'm so far into the business component of things. Like I've been cut, I've been traded, I've been, you know, the best player on a team and seen a whole bunch of people buy my jersey to like, you know what I'm saying? I've seen all the different sides, been on 4 different teams now. So it's like, if I was just like diehard for all these teams, like they kind of broke my heart if they sent me a bunch of different places, you know? So it's, it's, it's weird. Fandom is not something I understand, but I, I can respect the community aspect of things. Like it's where you from. Like there's a lot that goes into it, but they be crashing out about they squads and their whole week be ruined if their team doesn't win. I can't relate to that.

Well, I think that's why you are a star player instead of a fan, because that's what separates people. You know, we need fans and we also need star players. Also true, because they gotta coexist, that, you know, it's just the natural course of life. So that's why, you know, I don't understand the fandom myself. You know, I'm just, I'm just a normal person. I just meet people and I'm just me, you know. I don't really— I don't have a big head. Oh my God, I have a podcast. I don't even tell people I have a podcast. If they meet me outside, I'm like, I'm I tell them I'm in sales, or I like have a business or something. I don't even talk about that because it's— because I don't want people to feel some type of way. And, you know, to a lot of people, they don't think it's work. They think it's just— you're just fucking around, you're just sitting there talking. They don't know what it takes to build this. We build it with our hands. Like, we literally— the sweat equity in all of this, this is all—

even just today, I saw you get here and print a whole bunch of papers off and doing stuff on your computer and trying to get everything. Like, that's That ain't, that ain't for play, that's work.

No, it's work. Like, that's what people don't understand, that that's what it is. But I think with football, it's, it's always been so interesting to me that humans are just a transaction, you know. Football, basketball, you can just get, you know, like you said, shipped off to New York like this. Or in basketball, I know that whenever it's the trade season, they just— it don't matter if your kids go to school, if you have a family, don't matter. You just gotta go and you gotta You got to act accordingly. And why do you want to go back to that?

So I retired after the 2023 season.

Yeah. And you went back.

And then I went back to the Dolphins and I just had an experience of like so many different moments during that season of like, once you reach 33, you're playing football at 33, like you're almost like ancient. So it's this weird bubble of like, I tell people, I'm like, yeah, I'm really old for my field of work. But they'd be like, old? Like, you're young. And so it's like, I'm old, but in the, in the scheme of life, I'm still super young. But I realize like, I'm 33. Most dudes, 3 career, 3 years average in the NFL is 22, 23, 24. I'm approaching 34 and I still feel like I can move like this. I still feel like I can get into that flow and that rhythm of like, I could take this whole game over if they gave me the opportunity. And it's like, and feeling like the joy of that and being connected and having my abilities challenged again and having like a lot less baggage than I did. I feel like years prior was just like, I feel like I'd give this another opportunity if I, cause I didn't really do any much football training either going into, into that. I just kind of popped up like, I'll play ball. Sure. And which probably isn't the wisest decision.

Shut up. That's so, that's just rude to say. I just popped off. I'm just like, I'm just one of the best players now. You know how hard I work to even be able to play tennis? This is—

No, for real.

Horrible.

So coming off of that experience, it was like, if I put into the process, I still feel like I have a lot more to give to the game. And it's like, I don't necessarily know if that means I'll still have the opportunity to be in that kind of role on offense. It may be more of like a limited role, like a leadership role, like still have opportunities to do things on the field, but I still think I can be a great asset to a team with my playmaking ability and just like navigating the culture and like being somebody that younger dudes or whoever's in their different stages of their career can look to as an example. And I was like, you know, I feel like I still got more in the tank.

Was it your dream or was it somebody else's dream to play football?

It was a mix because somehow I grew up in like 30 minutes north of Atlanta. My dad's from New York, which is basketball world.

Mm-hmm. Um, you could have played basketball. What happened?

I played basketball up until about halfway point of my junior year. I got arrested and I got kicked off the team. And then, uh, criminal damage to property and trespassing. These dudes, uh, on my football team, we would run around like hit people's car windows out with a bat and throw rocks and soda cans through car windows. I was trying to be cool. I was trying to be tough.

You were trying to check the box. Okay, I see. All right, moving on. That was a long time ago, guys. Do not come for him.

Trying to be accepted. Um, where were we?

CT. You said you do have CT?

No, I'm playing. I can lose track.

I actually met the doctor who discovered this whole CT, the doctor that Will Smith played in the movie Concussion. Yeah, I met the actual doctor.

Yeah, in the Bay during COVID Yeah, I got a little Salt Bay CTE for sure. But not like— not a real one, like a little sprinkle.

Oh, okay. No, we're talking about the football, if that was your dream or—

oh yeah, it was a mix. So my dad's from New York, basketball country. My mom doesn't know much about football. Like, they watch football, but in the sport of the team where they're from. But I must have caught football on TV as a little kid and been like that. Like, they used to have the old NFL films, just do Steve Sable. He would just have this old voice and be the Chicago Bears would storm out onto the field and they would have all these old highlights. And I would just like, that was like original binge watching for me. I'll watch all that stuff. And then I guess my parents maybe saw me watching that stuff and then they was like, yeah, we'll try football. In my first year, I was 4 years old out there playing tackle football. And I was just kind of like, uh, but then I kind of like started to be like, okay, like, oh, I think. And then when I was 5, I was already, there's just like a big gap between me and like everybody I was playing against. And so it was like I had that love and I was always running around with the football in the house and football cards, watch football on TV. So it was like I had the passion for the game, but I feel like once a lot of those insecurities I was discussing, all those things started to come into play, it shifted football into more of like this acceptance tool and like the performance thing to where it kind of blotted out a lot of the original, like childlike love and joy that I had for it. And it was just like, this was just a means to an end to be seen as the man. And so it was a mix of both. But I feel like in this last year where Alive was like, oh, I think I can continue, was I think I was starting to find more of that childlike, less expectations, less pressure type of feel where it was like, mm, like I would choose this again. It wouldn't be like, I feel like I, I don't need to do this again. It's like I would choose to play again.

Do you? Because, yeah, you don't want to fit another box, check another box with football. Do you feel like football? Because, you know, sometimes when I talk to people, especially tennis players, I always ask them, do you think tennis loves you or you love tennis? Because I don't think tennis loves me. Trust me, this motherfucker does not want to work with me at all. It's constantly like a fight. Like, you have to get good at it. Do you think football is something that like, oh yeah, I feel like I'm, I'm loved by the sport?

I have plenty of moments to say where I can say yes to where even where the moments where it's like it could be a no with the injuries. It's like I feel like it's just like a more realistic picture of what love is because love has its challenges. Love has its low points, has its winters.

Okay.

You know, so it's like I think I could not say football doesn't love me, especially with where I was in my career and being like completely on the ropes, probably knocked out, like never thinking I'd play in a game again to being in a place to where it's like I'm one of the best in the game. It was just like football definitely loves me with some of the cards I was dealt and the opportunities and the doors that like the universe opened up, like the football gods, like they, have definitely looked out for me for sure. Numerous occasions.

Okay, so another thing that really stood out to me in some of the interviews that you've done, you said that you didn't feel alive at certain points of your life. So what does that actually mean?

Such a deep question. Feeling alive.

You coming on Talk Less Show.

We not doing the bullshit. Feeling alive, I would say, one, there's this like this element of like a conscious, like a conscious choice. Like, this is where I want to be. That's where I keep bringing up a lot of like the— this is what I should be doing. I'm good at this, so I should be maxing this out. It's almost like you're just like kind of like, fuck, like I gotta do this, where it's like that right there doesn't exude any aliveness. Whatsoever. So I think it has to start there. I think also being alive also requires you to be like challenged in a healthy way, like really having like your skill set or whatever you bring to the table really truly being challenged in a lot of ways. I feel like there was some, a couple years in there, 2022, 2023, where I feel like I wasn't being challenged by like the own coaches and the own staff on our teams in the ways I was being challenged in other years. To where that I felt like more engaged in what I was doing. So it kind of been like, man, like I gotta show up to work, man. These people ain't really like putting me in positions where I feel like I can really continue to thrive and continue to take what I'm doing to a new level. So that kind of like put more like a damper on that type of stuff. But, um, but yeah, I feel like, like really choosing like this is what I want to be doing, really being challenged in what it is you feel called to do, and then just like I think being alive has to, you have to have deep connections with people around you. And I feel like in a lot of ways I didn't really have consistently deep relationships with friends, with partners. It was only just like deep on occasion, but it was like a lot more isolation than connection. And I feel like you can't really live a full life. Like you said, like we need people, we need, men need women, women need men. I ain't, I don't do the hyper-independent things, kind of just like a little crazy for me, but because we need each other, like we need those deep relationships with men and men with men, women with women, and then both. It's just like, and I was just kind of like lone wolf and I've been a lone wolf most of my life just trying to figure out football. When I'm getting high, most time I'm by myself. Yeah, just in my own little world, just trying to, just surviving, really, like in this like survival state. I don't feel like you can really be alive if you're just trying to survive, as cheesy as that sounds.

You can't, because it's, it's like I was talking to somebody about this, that, that, that a lot of people in today's society are trying to cover their basic needs. They're in survival mode, right, because they need to get the money so they can have a roof on top of their head, so they can have a mean of transportation, so they can have food on their table. And with this economy, a lot of them are not, they're not able to do that or have that. And so how do you reach a higher state? How do you reach that, you know, that, that kind of like soul level connection of something deeper? Because you're always fighting for survival. You're always fighting for, hey, I don't know what's tomorrow gonna bring. And so you constantly live in this state of anxiety. You can't, there's no way. And when you're talking about deep connections, it's like, well, I can't even sit here and think for myself cuz I'm just, I'm just worried constantly. So I understand that. I, you know, when I saw that, I was like, this is so interesting because sometimes you do go through life and you're like, damn, like, I just feel like I'm going through motions. Like, I'm not really actually living. Right.

And I got the biggest rushes that life could provide being football and like, yeah, I've had my NFL player hoe phase for sure.

You did?

Yeah.

See, now we get into that.

I've had my, I have had my, my stints of being a hoe. It's probably like on a much minor scale compared to some of the huge stories that we hear. But, um, like, I've had those phases too of like these things that would— you think would make a man feel most alive, and it's really like I look back and I was like, that's not— that's not alive. It's not with the definition of alive that I feel like now, and that I want to continue to be in alignment with. That ain't that.

Did you feel bad for those girls?

At the time, no, because it was self-centered in a lot of ways. Self-centered in the validation I'm receiving from it and the way that the validation of women can kind of like, you know, kind of numb your own insecurities or whatever pain you're experiencing. It's like, yeah, it's kind of just like focused on me more. Whereas now it's like I feel like I'm a lot less like that. I have felt remorse for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, I'm just, I'm just going with the flow, you know, I'm just—

but you, when you're in survival mode, you, you, you not only like, I use drugs and alcohol, but you use people too.

Yeah, you use sex. A lot of people use sex for that.

You use people. You're not like connecting with them, right? Like that, I could look back and be like, I was definitely doing that.

Well, a lot of men are gonna say, oh, you know, we need to have sex and like, man, sexually and whatever, whatever. I feel like men are still human beings. You still need to have something that's much deeper than that. You know, because like you can have sex, but are you even gonna enjoy that sex? A lot of times, right, not really. Or like a girl can tell you that because, you know, like so many times you meet somebody and they're like, oh yeah, I'm the best. I'm like, bro, we just tell you that so you can have a good day, but are you really?

That's funny. Like nowadays I'll have, um, like deep conversations with women and, and walk away and be like, hey, that was like better than like using it for sex. And like, I feel like the sex would have tainted the experience that I have because I really am connecting with this person on a human level, not on like an animalistic level or something like that, you know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, you hear him, please. Okay, because all this guy's—

what? Always? No, I'm not gonna sit up here and act like it was always like this, but I'm having these experiences now to where I'm like, I thought I was connecting before and I wasn't. I— this is like more of connection and it feels, it feels better Intuitively.

See, see this? And that's all I've been trying to say. And all the guys, they're like, no, you're so wrong about that. We're still men. I get it. We are all humans. We all need to have sex. But that's— but there's also a deeper stuff that—

a lot of cop-outs for sure, right? I've used them.

We all—

I mean, yes.

But I also feel like, you know, because you are so vulnerable and honest and because you go on a lot of platforms to speak about your experience It's something that men are so scared of, to be vulnerable and to actually share, because to them they feel like it's a tool that is gonna ruin them. Because if they were to share their experiences, their emotions, their wants, their needs, now somebody can use that against them. And a lot of them are saying that, oh, that's not safe.

Well, to that point, which you're, which you're right. And my therapist, she, it's a simple thing, but it's really turned into like, you can really change your life if you get it. It's like she says, your brain works on pattern recognition. So if I apply that to like vulnerability in my life, people say like, oh man, I've been so vulnerable, so honest. Like, I got to share with you, I was completely isolated, never really sharing with anybody what I was going through, but I was put in an environment where I was, uh, encouraged to be vulnerable, and it was the scariest possible thing. But that's what my brain associated, like vulnerability, like absolutely not. But I have to to be met with that deep fear and still be vulnerable anyways to introduce a new pattern to my brain of like, oh, like, oh, he didn't die by being vulnerable. Like, oh, we can do this now. Like, then your brain gets with the program. You can't just be like, all right, I'm going to be vulnerable now because you're going to get met by that resistance. Of course, every single time you have to be met with that resistance and still do that thing anyways. And then you start to create the pattern to where now it's like I hop on a podcast and be like, Yeah, I was married 13 months. I got arrested 3 times. Was addicted, OD'd on fentanyl, like all these things and just talk about it and laugh about it almost because, but there, not to say there was a time where saying any of those things would have felt like I was going to die, but starting to do those things and then realize like, oh wait, I actually can do this. You have to give your nervous system like the capacity to do it. You can't just sit there and be like, oh, it's not safe. Of course it's not safe. Your nervous system is like, I would never do that. But then I did it and it was like, this was the best thing that ever happened to me. And now I actually feel more connected to people than I ever have before because of it. Then I was robbing myself of that, my ability to have that experience.

Do you feel like strangers love you more than the people who are close to you? Because you connect with people like that on social media, on the podcast, and, you know, obviously people, people know your story now.

I wouldn't, I definitely wouldn't say they love me more. I feel like I'm surrounded by it. People that not literally say they love me, but also like express it in the way that we interact with each other. But I feel like the frequency with which it's like an overwhelming, like, oh, I love you. Like this, you did this for me. Like it's probably with those people, but like I'm walking through everyday life with these people. They don't need to say that all the time. It's like we, we on this path, we know, we know, like we're moving this direction. We talk about these things. We we continue to be vulnerable with each other and express love and appreciation for what we do for one another. But like with people that I interact with in public, like the dude, like the Waffle House chef this morning that I saw, I was just like, you know, like these dudes are like, wow, like man, like it's so good to see you. Like you inspired me, like all this stuff. And it's like, it's cool to experience that. But I don't think I could say that they love me more. I feel like it, I would say it's equal, but more so the people that have been in my life because they consistently show it.

So do you think words carry power?

100%.

So when you like, when you, you know, when you talk about certain things or because, you know, I feel like I'm sorry, I'm just going to go there. A lot of men, they just bullshit. They just say things to say, you know, like they say, I'm gonna call you back and they never call you back. You know, they say things and they just, they just don't follow through.

Yeah, no, I, and I think that's a much deeper thing because, um, the, it's really a problem of like their relationship with their own word doesn't necessarily have any merit. Like, I feel like for me, like, I lied a little, like, religiously, like, better, or how was your life? I think I lied almost too good, like I was too smart for my own good a lot. Then I also had some like really dumb lies, but then it turned into like I could say certain things, but my relationship to my word wasn't strong. So it wasn't like, I'll just say it just to like get them off my tail or say it just to like make them feel some, like as a manipulation tool, as opposed to being like, now it's like, if I say something and like I don't do it, like I'll feel terrible. So it's like, now I feel like over time I've built this relationship of like, if I wanna say I wanna do something, like it's not just so they can see me as somebody reliable. It's like, I can see me as somebody that's reliable. Because then if you don't keep promises you make to yourself, You don't build confidence without doing that. Like, you build confidence being like, I'm gonna go to the gym today, or I'm gonna go to gym and do this program. I'll stick with this program for 4 weeks. If you stick to that program for 4 weeks, you proud as fuck of yourself. And like, you start to build off that. Like, but if you say I'm gonna go to the gym for this, and it's like you go 2 days and then you stop because it was uncomfortable, how you think you're gonna feel about yourself? And so then men— so then we as men project that into relationships. And it's like, oh, you don't care? Because like, we don't care about how we interact with ourselves and the standard that we hold ourselves to, so we're going to project that everywhere. Yes, it's my take on it.

I agree. I think y'all should stop saying that. I'm gonna call you back and don't call me back. I know a lot of people, well, it's just, it's just a, it's a, it's a Black people thing. I'm like, I don't care. It's not, you don't, you can't just say that. That's not a fair thing to say. You can't, that's not an excuse. If you say you're gonna call back, you're gonna call back, or just don't say it at all. You don't have to. Nobody's you know, making you say that, right? Just simple things like that. I'm just—

this is like the thing I realized for me is like a big thing for me is like kind of like using my voice, like advocating for myself and like saying yes when it's a yes, not saying yes when I really secretly feel like it's a no, right? So it's like, but I feel like the society we live in, like say like somebody was like, oh, call me back, and what if the dude was like, I don't want to call you back?

That's fine, right?

But it's like, I feel like with most people it's like Oh, I can't say that to her. I don't want her to experience this rejection. And we're like trying to like all trying to project, protect each other's wounds.

Right.

And it's like, as opposed to being like, that's actually great for both because it's like, I'm saying what is actually real for me. And then I actually allow her to be like, okay, like now I can go find somebody that's a fit for me. But it's like, there's so many other games going on.

Oh no, for sure. But then I was talking to my therapist because I just got into therapy again, and I was talking to my new therapist and I said, you know, I just want a guy to be honest with me. And she's like, but are you honest with them? And I was like, of course. And then she said, are you actually honest with them? And I was like, nope, I'm not. Because a lot of times I'm protecting them because I have my projections, because they, you know, it's this constant theme of I want peace. And somebody actually asked, because I had a question box in my stories about you, and somebody said, somebody asked, are you at peace now? They asked you that question. And but every time I hear that, I think my mistake is that I have my own definition of what peace is, and not necessarily it always matches with that man's definition of peace, because a lot of times it's just different for everybody. Somebody's peace could be constant fights and constant, you know, just some toxic behaviors. Somebody's peace could be just don't talk to me. Somebody's peace can be like, hey, I actually want to know if you're okay. And that's why I was like, damn, I got it all fucked up.

Yeah, that's a great question though, because I feel like even when people ask me, I think like, are you happy? Are you at peace? And it's like, I feel like I had this perfect answer, and it's like, I think I'm at peace because I've actually accepted the fact that peace doesn't mean like there's nothing in your life that doesn't trigger you or doesn't affect you. It's like you can live in relationship to those things and allow it to bring up what it brings up and then allow it to, to go. Because a lot of the feelings that we feel, it's like— I was reading a study where it's like you only experience a feeling for 90 seconds, but we make these decisions, these life-changing, like, all these things off of something that we experienced for 90 seconds, when if we allow it to pass, it can pass. And so I feel like with peace, for me, it's not like observing every corner of my life and being like, oh, do I feel disturbed in some way, or do I feel like this is not necessarily like where I'd want it to be? It's more so like I have certain things in my life that are where they want— where I want them to be, in some areas where I feel like it's not exactly where I want it to be, and there could be some growth there, there could be some change, or there could be me, um, taking more of a courageous step in a certain area. And it's like But I'm okay with me being where I'm at and not keep myself in this perfectionistic thing. Like, always worry about the numbers, like the numbers thing, like on so many layers for me. It may not even actually be numbers, but it's that perfectionistic, like it's gotta hit, it's gotta be this. Where it's like the peace comes to my life where I'm allowing myself to just like live and not have to have everything perfect, not have to have everything figured out, but it's like I'm okay with this thing might be stressing me out over here, but it's not running the whole show like this. That's just life. Like, that's just the experience of being human.

Yeah, I know. I agree with you. I think peace does not mean that it's perfect. And also, it's like, my life is not over the fuck. Like, I still got years to go. I mean, I will tell you before I die. I will tell you if I'm at peace or not. Hopefully I am, but not right now.

Can you actually even measure peace unless you're like put in a situation that tests you to see if you have peace or not?

That's what I'm saying. Like, I agree with that. It's the same thing with like, I used to say, oh, I don't wanna be in a relationship. I don't wanna do none of that. And then, you know, I kind of start realizing that I'm just shutting myself off from learning myself. Because until you get into that experience, you know, because obviously like it's scary, right? Because I'm like, oh, I got this going on. I got that going on. I got that. So let me just put that away to the side because it's scary because I have to be vulnerable because I have to feel. And yeah, it's a bitch to feel sometimes, you know, I don't wanna sit there and cry because a guy didn't call me. Like, this shit is crazy. Like, it sounds ridiculous, but then I'm like, well, I wouldn't even know that that shit bothers me unless that happened.

Right.

And, and then I saw this psychologist, he was talking about that. He said the only way we can learn how to grow is to be in relationships, whichever they are, you know, whether it's— and also like friendships too, cuz I feel like friendships are just as hard cuz you really— it's, it's, it's work too, you know. You have to be honest with your friends too. I have a friend sometimes I can tell him like, girl, I don't want to talk to you right now. I'll call you tomorrow. Just because right now I'm— I really need to figure those things out. It's like, I love you, you are my good friend. I just need some time.

Right.

And I'm like, oh, okay. Like, you know, she didn't get mad. I'm like, okay, cool. It's as simple as that.

You learn a lot.

You learn a lot. All right. Should we talk about men?

Are we hating on men? What are we doing?

No, we're not hating on men. I love men. You know, I'm— I actually have a lot of guy friends, and, um, I do like to get to know men. I do like to get into the minds of men because I think you are a very different kind of a man that, you know, I come across, especially on the show, because a lot of times it's comedians, and comedians, they, you know, like Carlos said, he said, I'm broken, I don't need to fix the pain. You know, the pain has gotten me so far. He said, I have achieved so much, and that's why I'm not willing to—

that's so real. Because I've seen some shit on, uh, it's this therapist that keep popping up on my little TikTok, and he said something, um, the, the topic of the video is when your, uh, career rewards your trauma response.

It does.

And it's like, bruh. A thousand percent. So I, like, I, when, like, when I hear him say that, it's almost like you hear it and you'd be like, oof, like, that's deep. Like, that's, that's it. But it's like, it's that shit real. That's me. Like, I get it. Like, I get why you wouldn't want to give that up, because then if you, like, it's almost like in a way, like, if you heal from that, like, well, fuck, what am I— I'm not gonna want to do this anymore, but then what am I gonna do, right?

Because, like, now, because if you're healed, you know, I think when you do go into the healing process, you start seeing people from a different perspective. You don't make fun of them anymore. As a comedian, you have to make fun of them, you know. You have to be ruthless. You have to roast them. You have to—

you have more compassion.

Because sometimes I, you know, whenever I go to 85 South or whenever I watch them perform, I'm like, goddamn, you guys, you know, this is a little—

they cooking, motherfuckers.

They cook. I mean, they're cooking to the point where, you know, I was at the DC's birthday roast and, um, the guy who's actually gonna come on my show, he roasted me. I was like, bro, what the fuck did I have to do with this? I'm just here, just— I literally was stopping by.

You got to keep your head down at that event.

Oh, especially because they're going to put this whole white girl label on me. They're going to put me— and I'm just— this is, this is funny, but I'm like, I don't want to be a part of this. Like, I would never say some shit like that. I'm like, that's ruthless. But I think, you know, because you kind of like— your, your whole life is like, you go into this route of like, oh, I'm a masculine man, I'm going to go be on a football field, you know, I'm going to do this. And then all of a sudden, boom, you come out with a music video. You come out with a music video about your divorce. You come out with and it's in you acting, and acting is more of a, you know, feminine kind of thing. It's not really masculine. So now you were just like getting us all confused, like, okay. But to me, that's what I've always said. That's what a definition of a man is. I want to see my man strong. I want to see my man, you know, feminine to an extent. I want to see my man acting. I want to see my man sad. I want to see my man happy. Like, that's just, that's how, you know, I've always been like, this is, this to me, that's a real man.

Man, right?

But to a lot of guys, they're gonna be like, oh no, this is— this— no, he's a bitch ass.

Yeah, yeah.

Not towards you specifically, I'm just saying that like—

no, no, Morgan was saying shit like that.

Really?

Yeah. Okay, I've seen it, which is a— I get it. I don't really get too trashed up off shit like that, but I keep going back to the conditioning of the society of like what the man should be. It's like the provider, it's show no weakness, it's conquer, it's dominate, and that doesn't have room for the expression per se. It doesn't have room for the, um, navigation of emotions. It's just like, stuff that shit down, suck it up, throw some dirt on it. Like, let's keep this shit pushing. And it's like, sure, that's the way things have been, and the good things have come from men that have done that. And we need men that are tough and that can endure hard things, 1000%. But it's like, that's— it's killed a lot of men too. It's robbed a lot of men of, um, you know, worthwhile experiences of love, of connection, of all those things. And it's like, I don't really think a fulfilling life or a successful life comes at the expense of a deep, vulnerable connection, um, with people, with women, for sure. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's— I'm glad that we like are having these conversations and men are at least like listen to it and are you able to— like, I, I could take it like what you said, like Carlos said, like, that's just a real— like, I appreciate that response because, like, man, this is just where I'm at. Like, it may not be where he always is, it may be where he's always at, but it's just like, to be able to have conversations and just, like, get a gauge for where men are and how they're navigating with these healing journeys, I feel like it is worthwhile taking those risks. You may shed certain beliefs or things that you feel like you need to do, uh, in order to feel like a man as you go. Like, that's for me, it's like when football ends, like, I'm sure there's a grieving process waiting for me, but it's like, I also see that there's so much more, and like, this is just a chapter that's preparing me for whatever, yeah, is coming. So it's just like, yeah, going through the healing process of man, it will definitely change you, and you may let go of certain things that you're clinging on to desperately as as a man. I feel like it's a good thing to let those things go.

But I think what you're doing now, because you do go on so many platforms and you do speak so much, that you are now laying the foundation for what's next. You know, a lot of athletes, they don't take time to do that. And that's why, you know, I think like when I say like, oh, you were such an NFL player, that's what I think about too a lot, that I don't understand that you guys are given this golden ticket where you can create your own brand. And there is, there are people who have done it and they have done it so successful that, you know, regular business people can't catch up with them because their name carries so much power and so much weight that anywhere you go, you are known, you're recognizable. You say one thing online, sold out, you know, you can, cuz you can turn that into purpose.

Right.

And I think a lot of times if you look at it, oh, like football is the only thing that I got. Well, no, you actually have so much more than football. That's just walking into the stadium, that's just the one thing about it, you know. And I remember for me it was always like, oh, I want to go, you know, I want to go backstage— not backstage, what is it like in the stadium? Like, I want to go like down in the field, like I want to see. And I did go to State Farm, um, to one of those shows, and I was backstage, and I was just like, it's so sad when the lights turn off. It's just like, this is just another day.

The game goes— the pieces on the game board, they all go back in the box. The box goes back on the show.

And then if there's a show, it just gets in the bus and then it goes to another city and then they just wrap it up. And I'm like—

Keep chasing that high. And then it's like, then you're like, oh wait, there isn't another game. There isn't another show. And it's like, that's where real, real grief comes in. It's like, I've had like small tastes of it from being out the league that time and retiring. But, you know, I came back. So it was like, I wasn't really, Right. I haven't really fully walked through that, and I'm sure that's going to be a nice journey for sure.

But even like when you watch the Super Bowl, you know, like once the confetti is down or, you know, the speeches are done, it's kind of like, damn, the last piece of confetti hits and they're going to be like, all right, when's the NFL Draft?

When's the Combine? When's OTAs? When's training camp? And it's just like it's on loop and life goes on.

And it's like now instead of, you know, okay, yeah, you won, you did this and that. Now it's like, well, we got to look into the next year because we got to project what's going to happen tomorrow. And so I think that's just— that's why, you know, you live such a fast life. And a lot of athletes, they just don't have time to even sit down and just appreciate the things that they've achieved.

Don't have the tools to be present.

No, because you have to— now you have to worry about, okay, like, you gotta, you know, you won the Super Bowl today, tomorrow's practice. You might have like a week off or whatever it is, but you got to keep practicing because you got to condition your body.

Right.

And it's crazy. And that's what, you know, I've always wanted to have a platform to speak about that because people don't understand that. All they see is, oh yeah, he's famous, he gets bitches, he got money, he is this, he is that. I'm not necessarily saying that, you know, cuz again, I, I can't say that everybody getting bitches and all that. Like, it's just, but that's the narrative that's out there. You know, if you think, if somebody were to tell me, like, even if I say, oh, cuz I've said it multiple times, I said, oh, I wanna date an NBA player, or I wanna date an athlete. Athlete, but I have an experience with athletes who are so spiritually connected to themselves that, you know, it's not like the, the people that they don't need sex from me, they don't need none of that. They just, we just wanna connect. Right. And it's like, it's a whole different experience. But if I say NBA players, they're like, oh, she's, she's mid, she's ugly, she's this, she's fat, she's this, nobody's gonna look at her. She doesn't even know nobody. And I'm like, that's y'all's, I don't care.

Yeah, them folks online, man. Stay out them comments, y'all. Stay out them comments.

I mean, no, come on, comment. We need the engagement.

Oh, oh, stay in the comments. Stay in the comments.

Keep telling me that.

Don't go nowhere. Stay right here.

I'mma just pop off one day and then they're gonna be like, oh damn, she did what she said. Because now it's like, now y'all making me do it, you know. Hey, one day it's gonna happen.

Crash out. Crash out.

No, how did it feel to have a public marriage?

Yeah, probably wouldn't do it again. Kind of like intoxicating for a little bit.

Why?

Because it's just like the validation that you can receive from it. There's like a little bit of that, of just like, yeah, like you're like, I'm him, she's like that, she's like that too.

Mm-hmm.

Like, there's like a little bit of like that competitive dominant of like, yeah, you see us type of thoughts. Like, I'm not expressing that out loud, but those thoughts do come in. It's like, there's a little bit of that, but the public, yeah, you just putting too much pressure on yourself out the gate.

Like, but also like people are in your business. That's my thing that I don't—

there's still people like I flew, uh, when we flew to Houston, um, a couple weeks ago. I'm going through TSA, the dude sees my ID, he's like, Darren Waller, oh shit, how's your wife doing? Like, I'm on a date, man, I'm on a date. Was it Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday? I'm at a restaurant and the GM comes up like, Darren, oh, Mrs., like my ex-wife's last name. And I'm like, bruh.

Cut it off.

Park that shit. Like, people just kind of get like stuck in time, I guess.

But it's like, because if you go, if you Google you on Wikipedia, it still says that you're married.

People can edit. Somebody go, somebody go on my Wikipedia and edit it, please. Like, it's been a couple years.

Because when I Googled you, the first thing came up was married, and then, you know, your wife's name and everything. Interesting. So, and it doesn't say divorced, it just says that married, whatever, 2023, 2024, whatever. That's, that's the time.

Somebody on the internet, man, go get that right. Please.

Yeah, cuz that's, that's, that's what it is. But that's what I always said, like, being in the public eye, I would never ever ever want to have no public relationship, cuz I just feel like there's certain things that have to stay private.

Yeah, no, which I had to go through that to learn.

Yeah, cuz then, you know, they expect you posting Christmas pictures, all this shit. It's like, this is my platform, I don't need to post nobody, okay? I don't care what y'all expect. And then I have to explain to everybody why we divorced, why we broke up, why this and that, are we happy, are we not. I don't— I gotta do none of that.

Yeah, it's a lot of extra.

I just— yeah, because it's, it's seeing what, you know, what happened to Klay Thompson and Megan Thee Stallion. It's like, yeah, you guys don't— you were not in that relationship. Stop talking about this. Like, this is— I get this, this is clip farming, that's clickbait, you know.

People break up, people break up all the time, bro. Like, it's just—

and that shit is not nice. Like, that shit is not easy. Yes, breaking up is not difficult.

It's difficult. Like, let these people experience these difficulty, like Like, let them, let them live, let them, let them be.

That shit bothers me. I'm like, y'all need to get out of people's business.

It's wild.

It is wild. It's so cruel in a way too, cuz it's like, once you go through a heartbreak, you're like, man, leave me the fuck alone. Like, I don't want to talk about that. All we want to do is just the same person, same person, same person. It's like, goddamn, at this point, like, I was just like, should we just get back together?

And then it's a whole another conversation.

Well, thank you so much for coming on.

I got a little present for you. What?

Yes, we do give little gifts.

What that is?

I hope it's, uh, hope it fits you and it's the right size.

Let's see.

Okay, okay.

What size is this?

Extra large, but it's big. Might be a little crop top on your boy, but hey, we'll get you a new one. Don't worry, I'll ship it to you.

Thick boys. This is tough. This is good material. I love how soft this is.

It's pretty large. I'm gonna have to get you a bigger shirt though, because it's large but it's like super, super oversized.

Oh yeah, it's oversized. This shit might work. Yeah, it might work.

Little crop top. Well, I'll get you bigger size. Oh my God, little crop top.

Appreciate you. Appreciate you.

Well, appreciate you for coming on. Thank you so much. Um, what's next for you?

Shit, we got this music in rotation for sure. Um, album? Yeah, so we, um, me and my boy J-Rod, who is, uh, that's my dog, man. He's my engineer who, uh, my boy Cali right there just introduced us a couple years ago, and our working relationship has been just incredible. I feel like he's definitely helped elevate my sound, and we just put a song out, uh, June 3rd, uh, called Bases Loaded. Which was the third song that we single we've put from. We have a collective project called Cadillac Problems. Okay. It's coming out August 5th.

Um, that's my grandma's birthday.

Shout out to Grandma, man. But, uh, but yeah, we working. We got, got, um, yeah, that song just dropped. We got the project that we gonna be putting out in a couple months.

Okay.

Um, still doing football training, figure out where I'm gonna end up this season. That's a mystery too. Um, yeah, just enjoying time with the people.

Uh, You're going to the actual, like, to the NFL, not the CFL, that you know you're gonna land on the team?

No, we're not doing no, none, none of the other ones. We're doing it.

Are you gonna invite me to the game?

Yeah, we get you, uh, we get you on the field, get you down on the field.

You will?

Yeah, I've never been on the field. Get you a field pass, you mean?

You guys, if you see the Instagram pictures, that's where I'm talking about.

But yeah, so just doing that, uh, I'm about to travel, but I'm going to Iceland in July. Just, yeah, just trying to enjoy my life, man. Just kick it with people I love. Keep it simple. But yeah, just training, music, the usual.

I love that. That's amazing. And you still going to be in Vegas?

Yeah, I'll be in Vegas for sure. I'll be back. I'll be back in Atlanta doing some stuff too.

So what if the— what is it? The Hawks is the basketball. The Falcons. What if they sign you?

Shout out to the Falcons, man. I'll pull up wherever I'm, wherever I'm most needed. That's why I'll be, I'll be praying. I'll be talking to, to God, to the universe. I'm like, just, just send me wherever I'm most needed. You mean like if it's a, if it's a playoff team trying to get, trying to get a ring, great. If it's a team with a bunch of young dudes that need some, some guidance, some wisdom, an example of how to work, how to be a pro, whatever I'm most needed, I'm with.

And you have a foundation too, right?

Yep. Darren Waller Foundation.

Okay.

Yeah, man. Wow. That we've been 6 years in the mix of, uh, helping people go to detox, uh, treatment and have access to sober living afterwards and all types of resources that have helped me on my journey, whether it's like teaching meditation, books, um, different avenues of therapy, like just trying to give them all those tools. I mean, we've hit 100 people, um, that we've like, they, it's no cost to them. Treatment because the, the NFL sent me the treatment for free. So I was like, I want to give that gift, keep paying that forward. So we've done a lot of good work, man. Shout out to the board, executive board, uh, for the foundation. All the people, Vegas community has been super welcoming and, uh, inclusive of the work we've been trying to do. So it's a blessing. Life's a blessing.

You're amazing. I love that. You do have a great story. Thank you.

Appreciate that. Shout out to Corbin.

Court is the— Court is the guy. Listen, Court is the one. But yeah, no, this is— this was great. Thank you so much for coming on. I, um, I think it's important to show men from a very different perspective, especially when, you know, you're an athlete and you have a certain image, but you also are human. And that's what I love, is when you can show the human side of yourself versus just like, oh yeah, you know, I got my Gucci belt and all this shit, like Relax, relax, breathe.

It's all gonna be all right.

Yeah, it's all gonna be all right. All right, well, thank you. All right, you guys, I hope you love this episode. Um, share, like, comment, subscribe. Go follow Darren wherever he's gonna end up. We're gonna go support. I guess that's the next team I'm gonna be a fan of. I don't, I don't know how that works. Let's go, whatever it is. Um, and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye!

Yeah, good job. Good.

Did it.

How we do, twin?

Oh, y'all did great, man. It was good, man.

Appreciate it, bro.

Great talking, great story.

That's dope. Interested to see how they, uh,