Ep. 15 Positive IQ

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So we have kind of two sides of our brains, right? We've got the side that our saboteurs live in and this is really where those survival skills, whether it's the fight, flight or flee phenomenon, and that's all about safety and protection, right? Versus the other side of our brain, which is where the emotions live and the possibility of those positive aspects in life.

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Hey.

Hey.

Good morning, Brian.

Good morning, Amy. How are you doing?

I'm super good. How are you on this lovely Sunday?

Awesome. I'm stoked. It's going to be 60 something degrees and sunny out and the football game is going to be on and maybe we'll get a big win. So super excited to have a relaxing day.

It is going to be a nice Sunday and we have a very exciting guest today on our podcast, don't we?

Yes. I love her. She is awesome. She's a dear friend of mine, Holly Sayhood, and she is going to be talking to us about something fascinating today. She has a background in corporate leadership and development and then migrated her way into into doing some mental fitness coaching with a specialty in positive intelligence. I've spent some time doing this with her and a pod group together and it's fascinating and adventurous and super cool and you'll geek out on it. And Holly, a warm welcome to you and you're going to be super proud that I just got done doing my PQ reps before we jumped on this podcast. So yay.

I thought you sounded a little sweaty, Brian.

Yeah. Well.

Holly, welcome to The All Things Good for you podcast. So a podcast.

Thank you for having me. Yeah.

What is your official title here?

Yeah, so spinning off of what Brian was saying, I had a lot of time in the corporate space, but I'm actually setting up my own coaching business, so focusing on executive and leadership development. And along the way, I crossed paths with Shirzad Shamin, was the creator of Positive Intelligence, and have incorporated that into my coaching work as well, because it's. It's just. It applies to everything.

So I'm very glad you said his name, because I always think I say his name wrong and I listen to his name and then I say it, and then later I'm like, did I just say that the right way? So.

Yeah, say it again one more time, Holly.

His name is Shirzad Shamin. He is a Stanford lecturer, wrote and created the Positive Intelligence Program. His book's a New York Times bestseller. And so he's really done a ton of research and vetted this all out on multiple levels and has created a super practical way of addressing those negative thoughts that we all have and that interrupt us from either achieving things that we want to achieve or elevating relationships. We want to enhance anything, really, within your life where those negative thoughts get in the way and stop us from. From reaching these goals that we have.

Well, it reminds me back on, we did another guest podcast, too, where we focused more on, like, our subconscious belief system. And I think this ties in nicely with that because it is. I believe he speaks about it starting off in our childhood and kind of, we all develop these responses to strategize our behaviors and our choices and our thought processes to get what we need, whether it's safety or validation or acceptance or disconnect. Right. So he talks about all these different ways we achieve these different personality traits, but he separates them and kind of puts them into these categories that I think Brian has mentioned before. Like saboteurs and sages. Right?

Absolutely. Yeah. Before I was introduced to Positive Intelligence, little did I know I used to call my internal voices or my internal critics, whatever we want to call them. I used to call them the committee. You know, like, if I knew my committee was firing off and distracting me, I was very aware of it, but certainly didn't have any tools necessary to handle it or to manage it.

The one thing that's amazing about his framework, if you will, and we've touched into this from different perspectives a little bit, is it's very, very detailed. So I feel like out of all the frameworks of jumping into, you know, whether it's ego and authentic self or whole brain living or whatever, this breaks it down into a little bit more details, and it's a really well thought out, really well put together system and framework. And, Holly, can you just jump into that and tell us more about the saboteurs and the sage and all the different elements to that?

Absolutely, yeah. Basically, we have two sides of our brains, right? We've got that survivor brain, and that's kind of what we. You were referencing, Amy.

Right?

Things that go back to the beginnings of our lives, regardless of what they look like. We all had a certain level of survivor characteristics, and we pull those forward into our adult lives, good, bad, or indifferent. Pull them forward. Right. So ultimately we end up with this cast of characters that, you know, in this particular case, we reference as saboteurs. I've heard other programs reference it as inner critics and other types of things, but really all boils down to the same concept that we've got these voices that undermined us and what we're trying to achieve. So we have kind of two sides of our brains, right? We've got the side that our saboteurs live in, and this is really where those survival skills, whether it's the fight, flight, flee phenomenon, and that's all about safety and protection, right? Versus the other side of our brain, which is where the emotions live and the possibility of those positive aspects in life. And so it becomes a dichotomy. Right. Like, I think a lot of us want to believe that we're positive people. And in our daily life, that's likely true, but it's how do we engage with what's going on in our heads that makes the difference. And this is where we might fall back or retreat because something is being triggered that came from that fearful place. And the whole goal of the positive intelligence work is really to build up the strength of our sage brain, which is where we find our empathy and compassion and curiosity and all of those things.

I love that because the whole concept of very much is like, what Brian and I have spoke about in previous podcasts as well, is changing that mindset and then seeing failures as opportunities, seeing failures as a way to just take a data and say, okay, that didn't work out the way I thought it would. What can I do differently here? So the positive intelligence that you work with is kind of based off of, like you had said, the sages. And they are. Are they phases and stages, or are they personality types, kind of like he does the saboteurs, like he does one that's like an. An explorer, an innovator, a questioner. I can't remember all of the different ones.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a fantastic question because it really does go in phases. So the first thing that you really start working on from the sage brain perspective is empathy and empathy to all things, not just empathy to others. Very often it's we lack empathy for ourselves, which just feeds the saboteurs. Right. I don't deserve it. I need to just push through. I mean, there's a lot of lies and justifications that we come up with to just power through some of those situations. But think about the possibility if we take a second to empathize for ourselves, be loving. Understanding the circumstances that you're in is going to position you mentally in a better spot to move forward. So empathize is the first step as far as the sage brain. And again, that's empathy for everything. The second step would be to explore. Right. Once you're really good at empathizing, that's where you can really start exploring what the possibilities are. There's some different power games that we can play that help us understand and get into these sage spaces. You know, after we have done the exploring section, we move into innovate. Right, so what are the quick ideas? What are the alternatives? What are things that we haven't thought of that could be phenomenal? The next one is navigate. So basically what's really important. And the navigate should really be coming from our deepest wisdom, which then ultimately feeds the activate sage. Right, so what's my positive response that's moving forward, next steps.

Okay, so we in our anger podcast, just to use that one because that's, you know, an often feeling or an emotion we can take and make it a bad thing for us. And you know how you called yours characters or the committee? I call mine Amy G. Because of the amygdala.

There you go.

And amygdala spelled Amy G. Right, I got you. So I call her Amy G. And like you'd mentioned, it's okay. These are base reptilian responses to safety and security. And so recognizing when you're angry about something, for instance, it's okay that you're angry, you know, have that empathized feeling or empathy with yourself in the scenario or the other person if you're dealing with something like that. But like, okay, I'm angry. And first of all, that's okay. Like there's something going on here. Get exploring, like, what's happening, what's coming up? Why is this Angering me, Is it the scenario? Is it the person? Is it a past trigger? It's just straight up an offense. Right now I'm protecting myself from and then get innovative. Like, okay, how can I use this to cue myself and you help me, like if I'm missing a step that can go deeper into the steps that you use in your coaching, like in an innovative way to say, okay, how do I utilize this anger for something good? And then I think navigating, like mapping it out. Okay, the next time that this happens, I'm going to go to point A and then I'm going to go to point B and I'm going to remember and make a mapping situation. Like, let's navigate how I might work through this process and then activate what can I actually do to. Okay, I'm going to get up and if I get angry every time I drive my car, I'm going to meditate.

Before I go for work.

Are those kind of the simple steps that you would use with somebody in your coaching process or am I oversimplifying it?

Yeah, I mean, good question. The answer, as a coach yourself, did.

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I feel like it always. It depends.

Yeah, right.

On the person that you're working with, what are their concerns or issues?

You know, what are their saboteurs?

How are they showing up in his or her life to determine kind of, you know, what are the areas of focus? But I think I'm going to back you up just a second because it really kind of, it starts with understanding what your saboteurs are. I think if you ask somebody, do you know what holds you back? You would likely get what might be just the standard answer that someone's been using for a lifetime. Perhaps there might be some justification lies in there, but I think people struggle to articulate what it is and the differences. So there is an assessment that goes along with this that helps people identify, well, what are those top saboteurs or inner critics that I have to really Kind of verify what are you working with. Who's the shifty characters in my head that I'm working with here?

Well, first of all, I just want to back up and throw something there. When you were talking about the sage stuff, one thing that comes to me that has been really important with the work that I've been doing with you too, which goes into some other philosophies, is to being able to kind of quiet the mind so that you can let those sage powers through. And when I think, when you feel that too, it helps you also understand when you've been by those saboteurs. And I really liked the strength of the word of the hijacking that can happen. And so whether it's through meditation, he does a lot of the power games and you do a lot of the power games and the PQ reps, which I'd like to hear a little more about later to activate and to being able to quiet down the saboteur so that the sage powers can kind of come through. And then could you also tell us, because it was really powerful for me because I'm not connected sometimes to that emotion or things like that. So I might have felt something or behaved a certain and knew it was wrong or knew it didn't feel right. But it was really helpful to put the name of an identity. So if you could tell us, just name those saboteurs for us. I think it's powerful tool.

Yeah, for sure. So we've got nine. We've got nine saboteurs total. Now everybody has one saboteur in common, and that is the judge. And we consider that to be the first and primary. And this is not just judging others, this is judging self, this is judging circumstances and situations. And I think we run across that all day long, every day. And then from there, there's usually a top two or three saboteurs that present themselves, that work in tandem with the judge. So if we look at that, we have got a controller, we have a hyperachiever, restless, stickler pleaser, hyper vigilant, avoider victim and hyper rational. And they all have their own characteristics, they all have their own feelings and thoughts and also kind of what those original functions were. So in my particular case, my saboteurs are hyperachiever, controller and restless. And what makes those interesting is with the hyperachiever, a lot of it is around self, love and validation. And it's about, where do you get that from? Right. It's generally from achieving specific things. Right. So it could be competitive, it could be achieving a degree or something to that effect. But basically the hyper achiever is always in search of the next thing to achieve to continue with that validation.

Right? Yeah, it's kind of like that checkbox of getting the trophy or something to say I've proven myself worthy on some social status, so to speak, or you know, some level of achievement. Like I've achieved this thing. So that makes me therefore valuable, lovable, important, whatnot.

Yeah, I mean one of the very common thoughts there is that, you know, you gotta be the best at what you do and if you can't be outstanding, don't bother. You know, I can be anything I wanna be. And that, you know, I mean that you're worthy of others thinking well of you. Right.

Every one of these kind of boils down to right. And it's just a matter of how you have learned to strategize to get that feeling of love and acceptance and worthiness. Right?

Yep. And then like for instance, like with the controller, you know, there's a lot of strong energy. You need to be control. I tend to have a competitive edge. And that you feel kind of a little bit alive when you're doing what feels like the impossible. That makes sense.

Okay.

You know, for me, when I get hijacked, if I feel like I'm out of control with something, then I will pivot to trying to control something. It almost doesn't matter what it is. But having that sense of control can bring that emotional stability to some degree.

Can people you can have little touches of these types of things in certain scenarios. I know for me, like I did the saboteur testing and my number one very high was pleaser and then pretty equally below that was restless and high achiever. But I certainly know that in times like my everything else in my life can be chaos. But if my home environment is clean and order, that's where I find my control and my safety. And I remember reading and something on his website regarding that, or maybe it was just a listing of the how. After you take the quiz, it kind of goes through and walks you through your subteurs so you get familiar with them. And one of the things about controlling was you may have learned a strategy at home if your home environment was a little chaotic. Well, I always had a very clean room. So I've always that has carried through with me. And even at any point, whether it's finances or school overload or just chaos with life in general, if my home is in order, I have that control and that feeling of safety.

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Yeah, and it's interesting, right, because I have the controller too and the way it presents with me is a little bit different. Or at least the origination of it is a little bit different in that, you know, you were saying you had some very organized space. My personal story is growing up I had a not so great stepfather, right? So I was often concerned about being hurt or controlled, feeling very vulnerable because I was a kid and he was the adult and so it forced me to kind of grow up fast and learn how to take charge of my life. So going back to that whole perspective of it was a survival tactic for me that then pivoted into my professional life, which good, bad, and different. You know, it shows up in different ways, but just to kind of pull the thread through, to show how it can get pulled forward into the adult life. Why was I concerned about it as a teenager versus how. Why was I. Why am I a controller in my 30s or 40s? Right. Might be some different reasonings, but it's kind of hardwired because of that initial part of life.

It's just amazing how, you know, all kids are sponges, and we just absorb so much and just the epigenetics of our social economics and, you know, safety at home and just every little thing, how we just absorb that and how it, like you said, is carried forward in life. And so this framework is really cool because it allows for that deeper understanding of who your cast of characters are and how they've been pulled forward. And it's our opportunity to reboot. It's our opportunity to have our aha moments and uncover some of those drivers that aren't serving us well. And by identifying in the name him, you shed light on it. And when you shed that light, it's like, okay, yeah, I see it. And the more I see it. And then, you know, again, quieting it down, the simplistic side of it is just being able to quiet that mind and, you know, recognize and let him go and allow those sage powers to activate. Identifying those, your cast of characters, and just knowing, like we talked about in a previous podcast, just neuroplasticity. We have the ability to reframe. We have the ability to reconnect. We have the ability to reboot. So I love it. Keep going, Holly.

Yeah, and I love that terminology, like, it's a reboot, and that the reboot can be done daily, hourly. I mean, that's again, when you're given a set of very practical tools like what we have here, it allows for that, so you don't go so far down the emotional or mental rabbit hole and then have to pull yourself out as you get real familiar with these tools. To your point, I think you said it before, Brian, you start to recognize it, and you're like, oh, there's my judge or there's my hyperachiever, and then what do you do about it? And that's really where the sage brain comes in. And that is ultimately strengthened, built through the pq Reps. And there's some reference that I think it's true that, you know, obviously if you're physically fit, right, you're doing a lot of reps in the gym and you're physically fit, then you're likely able to handle a lot of physical activity. Running up the stairs would be simple for someone who is fit. You take that same analogy and apply it to your mental fitness. If your mental capacity, if you're not doing your quote unquote reps, your muscle reps in your brain, then you're not building up that strength to intercept. And ultimately the purpose of the daily PQ reps is about being consistent. Doing it every day, just like working out over time will ultimately result in a much stronger mental capacity to deal with whatever comes your way.

And those PQ reps are strengthening. When we talk about the muscle of the brain, or if you will, are strengthening the neuro pathways that you are redeveloping, I believe is what he's talking about as well. Strengthening those new neuropathies and reinforcements, forcing those yet.

Yes. And you know, me not being a scientist, you know, you're probably a little bit closer to some of the language that he uses. But. But yes, that's absolutely true. You know, Sage being left brain, saboteurs being right brain.

The thing I like about his PQ reps too, for those especially like the idea of a 20 minute meditation is like torture for some people. And so we all, it doesn't matter if you're a beginning a meditation or somebody who's been meditating for a long time, the inner voices, all that inner noise that is going crazy in our brains from our sympathetic nervous system is there for everybody. And the nice thing about his PQ reps is I feel like they're very accessible to people that just cannot push through that a little bit more. So if you could tell us a little bit about some of the increments and some of the styles, if you will, as far as the PQ reps for our listeners would be amazing.

Yeah, and thank you for bringing that up too. But you know, as far as the practical application, the daily application of this is. And to your point, like sometimes meditation can be a big chunk of time and people won't prioritize it or can't for whatever reason. One of the things that really attracted me to this was how simple it was in that each day you start your day off with a 2 to 3 minute audio file from Shirzad, kind of going over the focus of the day and Then you proceed to do PQ reps throughout the day. Generally speaking, you want to do them about three hours apart so that you're keeping that consistency throughout the day, but you're also keeping that sage perspective fed, if you will. So, I mean, ultimately, what's really cool about this is this is a 15 minute commitment per day. And when we think about how much time we spend on random nonsense, you know, I feel to prioritize 15 minutes a day for your own not only your mental well being, but how that plays out in the way you show up in life and show up for others and a variety of other situations. So, yeah, it's super accessible is the word I like to think because it is so easy. It's the commitment to doing that's the magic sauce.

Like Brian, what you said you did your PQ reps this morning. Now, PQ being like the positive intelligence quota, right? That's like weighing your sages over your saboteurs, right? He makes an equation of it, is that correct? Yes, he does. So what is an example, Brian? Do you want to share something that you do or how would I make this real for me?

So the one I did this morning so. Well, first of all, Holly is kind of the leader of this and then we have homework between and so I have my homework that I do that like she was talking about. So the one I did this morning, there's like a daily focus. So you do the daily focus and then the.

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One I did right before we jumped on this podcast, which is recommended before you jump into certain activities and stuff like that to really help quiet down the voices of the saboteurs. And so I sat down and I did a five minute one and so I did more of a tactile one. So one of the components was touching your fingertips together and really trying to feel the ridges of your fingertips. So basically these get into all of your senses. So one was trying to hear the sound the furthest away the sound closest to you. So I was listening to my breath go in and out. And so when you're hyper focused, especially on those senses, all the other vibrations and noises of the mind and stuff can fall away. And so sometimes there's a 12 minute one, sometimes there's a two minute. But it's nice as you do these, that quietness happens. So for instance, before I did that, there was a couple of these saboteurs that were jumping out at me, the stickler. So I was stressed out because my kids had a sleepover up here. And I have a very specific way I like to. To set up in the morning. I have a very specific time before we jump on these podcasts. I have a very specific rituals that I do. And I was getting anxious and I was getting irritable, and I'm like, okay, my stickler's showing up. Like, just. And I would stop and I close my eyes and I touched my fingertips together, and I would kind of just do a breath and bring myself down. And so then as you quiet those noises down of those saboteurs that jump in, you recognize those things and you can have fun with it. But then I went into my PUQ exercise before we did that. That's why when you're like, oh, yeah, you sound sweaty or whatever, I was like, it's actually the opposite.

It's only because you said you did your PQ rep.

I know, I know. Exercise, it's all about the reps. About the reps.

It is, right? But, okay, so you have the queuing time. Obviously, you and I are big on, like, kind of a little bit of a morning routine. I like the idea of this because when I wake up, I used to wake up in the morning when I was married and my kids were little. My husband, he just was like, it's like you wake up and you're just like a lightning bolt, and you just jump and run and go. And I have to say, I'm not like that anymore. I'm a little slower waking up than I have been. But to me, this seems like a perfect time. You know, I grab my cup of coffee, I need my quiet time for about 10 or 15, 20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes in the morning, where I need to just not be, like, overly focused on getting it going and going and going, because I think what happened was my anxiety would actually pop up and I would burn out quickly. So I've learned to kind of just have 30 minutes in the morning. So this could be a thing that I could utilize during that Time, have my coffee. When your brain is kind of quiet and trying to wake up, maybe set it into a good process right from the beginning of your day and doing your PQ reps. But give me a hard example. Can somebody help me? Like, okay, maybe Holly, if you want to give me an example or help me walk through something, I know I'm a pleaser, right? So I know, like, my first signs of frustration and anxiety is that if I'm going to fail somebody, make somebody disappointed, show up late for a client or not have something done just right, you know, that kind of a thing starts to. I know it's under the undercurrent. What is something I could do, like a PQ rep example to work with that. Yeah.

I mean, the PQ reps, to Brian's point before, there's a lot of different types. So I think it's important to do the ones that energize you the most. And I hope that that makes sense, because we've got tactile. We have tension PQs, we have ones where we're moving, we have ones where we're sitting, and they dial into different areas of focus. Me personally, I'm an auditory person, right? So I really like the ones where I have to focus so hard on my hearing, to be able to hear the garbage truck three streets over, Right. Versus I have a little fountain in my office. Like, the closest noise I might hear is the trickle of my fountain, the trickle of water, right? So it's really about getting uber focused on whatever it is, whichever PQ rep that you're doing, so that you're really kind of pushing away and making space, you're not having all these saboteurs going on in your head to kind of get you into that sage space so that regardless of what you're exposed to after that, you're in a position to kind of command how you respond, number one. But number two, and we'll get into this more, is finding the gift and opportunity. Perhaps that's a big part of the sage brain. Things don't always present themselves crystal clear, Right. We can't always see the good in things. And this is part of the process that PQ allows for, is that we can get into that space and find what the gift or the opportunity is. And it could be a gift of knowledge, it could be a gift of power, it could be a gift of inspiration. I mean, there's different types of gifts. So, point. Yeah. Point being, so you set your day, right? Like you were saying, you set your day you do some PQ reps, You kind of start out nice and then you go into work and something happens. You know, there's a brush fire that you have to put out at work that now triggers some of your saboteurs. And if you have activated your Sage brain, what that means is then in that situation, instead of getting completely hijacked and maybe showing up as in full form with one of your saboteurs, you're approaching the situation more from an empathetic standpoint. You're exploring the possibilities and trying to figure out a way, a better way to navigate the situation. I hope that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. So I know you can jump on Positive Intelligence website and you can download his book and he also gives the free PDF, but I wanted to just read two little things that he points out that he uses that helps him discover change every day or everything for him. And he says, number one, our minds are our worst enemies. The mind harbors characters that actively sabotage our happiness and success. These saboteurs can easily be identified and weakened. The muscles of the brain is. Number two, the muscles of the brain that give us access to our greatest wisdom and insights have remained weak from years of not being exercised. These brain muscles can easily be built up to give us greater access to our deeper wisdom and untapped mental powers, which I like them when you say gifts, our untapped mental gifts. So I love that. And it ties into the whole process of everything we talk about that consistency and exercise. So finding a way to just build this inconsistently for your day and it can be a start off to the morning, like we were saying. And that's you're kind of setting yourself up for success and having better recall and access to your Sage in moments where you might have unexpected but inevitable stress moments. Right?

Absolutely, yes. And of course, Shirzad is much more eloquent than I in the way he put all that, but absolutely. When we think of the Sage Brain, if we can stay as much as possible in the Sage Brain throughout the day. The terminology that we use is the SAGE is that place of ease and flow. It's kind of where you're better equipped to kind of bob and weave the situation that's in front of you versus, you know, doubling down with your controller, your achiever, or one of these things. Right. That doesn't really bring us much value.

Holly. I will say I read some of the book before we started this and kind of dove into it. But I will say for everybody who's listening and Amy, the question that you Asked particularly to the situation. That's where working one on one and in the POD group with Holly has been extremely helpful for me because it's one thing to see and read, but to take those very specific situations and put it into this practice and to be able to bounce ideas and to be able to especially go into some of the the power games and stuff like that with a group of people or with her, it's really takes it to that next level and is amazing and extra enlightening. So I do want to hear before we jump off here, Holly, from you, anything else you want to throw in there? We could talk about this forever. But also how can people contact you and learn more about this and so forth.

Absolutely. So my website is Forestcoach and that's with two Rs f o r r e s t coach.com so there's information. I have a PQ page there and there's certainly a way to go through and connect with me if you wanted to learn more. Also finding out when our next POD might be. This is something that, you know, we can do on an individual level or within organizations. It's the beauty of it is it applies across the board. Also have LinkedIn. You can look me up just under Holly say hood on LinkedIn also has some additional information there. And of course you know there's the PQ Master site, the Positive intelligence dot com. But do feel free to reach out. Love to discuss this with anyone who is interested. I personally have been doing this program since March and it has been transformational for me and those around me that are doing it as well. I'm hearing similar stories. So it's definitely something that is worth that 15 minutes of your day to make your overall life so much better.

How did you stumble onto this? What led you into this route of one? Well, what would lead you into coaching and leadership work and then what led you to the Positive Intelligence?

Oh yeah, great. So about in 2010, the organization I was working for, we were going through lean transformation and McKinsey & Co. Came in and we partnered with them and I got selected to be part of this special team. They taught me how to coach and I was working with five or six different teams and all their consultants and really working on some transition. Fast forward throughout my entire career there, I used coaching with everything I did. I found it to be way more impactful to developing teams and individuals than any type of training alone. And then I had an opportunity. I've been pursuing my ICF designation because I mean frankly it was the one thing I knew that you got me all pumped up and decided to make a big shift and left the corporate world to pursue coaching full time. And during this process, I met another fellow coach along the way, and she actually kicked me over a link like last February and was like, hey, check this out. What Shirzad does is he provides a grant to coaches that want to learn this program and then potentially take it out and make it part of their practice. So instead of paying, he just invites you in to expose you to it. From his perspective, it's a gift to all coaches, and then it's up to you what you want to do it, do with it. I obviously decided to continue forward because I recognized the power that this program can offer people and have since incorporated it into my coaching business because, again, as I said, this really applies on every level, especially like with teams and things like that, too. If an organization is really trying to elevate performance, you get a team all tied in on this, understanding what's getting in their way, they're going to perform so much better, so much more efficiently, and they're all going to get along better, too. Right. Ultimately, creating greater happiness at work, too. Imagine that. So, yeah, that's kind of how I stumbled across it. I certainly wasn't looking for it. Somebody just shared it with me and I was curious enough to follow the trail and learn more. And here we are today.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you so much, Holly, and I appreciate your sharing your knowledge and having such a big heart. And it's always awesome to hang out and chat with you.

Yeah, I so appreciate the opportunity to discuss this. It's something that I thoroughly believe in, something that I offer to all of my clients as part of our coaching packages. Because, again, it's just going to help people move forward in a very attainable way. And who doesn't want to be happier and more satisfied?

Absolutely. I encourage everybody out there who's listening to go shed light on their saboteurs and weaken those babies and strengthen your sage.

I love it.

I'm going to end with a little geeky visual. Are either one of you Star wars fans?

Yes, I've been. I've been known to watch some Star Wars.

So all this time, like when you're talking about the saboteur and sage, I've got this visual of it's when Obi Wan, they're getting ready to fight Darth Maul and there's the barrier that keeps coming up. And so they're kneeling and waiting. And of course, Obi Wan is pacing in the back as the young Obi Wan, and he's pacing in the back and Liam Neeson's character is just kneeling, waiting, and he's kind of like, I feel like those are like in my mind the idea of the sage and the saboteur. Right? Like so the calm and waiting and preparing for conquering what's coming at you. So that's my geeky, nerded out version of the visual of PQ reps. Hey.

There is plenty of references to some Jedi powers and stuff in the book.

So absolutely I was going to mention.

That's perfect. Oh, good. Well, I'm glad I just saw it. I'm just as nerdy as a highly intelligent human being.

All right, let's get our Jedi powers on.

That's it.

That's it.

Sage powers, activate.

Holly, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your knowledge and your strategies for coaching. It's wonderful. I'm definitely going to be checking it out. I think it would help tremendously with my health and nutrition coaching approaches. So thank you for sharing that with us. And Brian, as always, you're fantastic. Thanks for sharing your point of view and bringing Holly on.

Thank you guys. Appreciate you. Have a great day, everybody.

Thanks so much, everybody.

Take care. Alrighty.

Bye.

Bye. Bye. Hey friends, thank you for tuning in to the All Things Good for you podcast. Please note any information, experiences, ideas or opinions discussed today are for educational, thought provoking purposes only and not intended as medical advice. If anything piqued your curiosity, please consult with your doctor or personal medical professional. And if you're enjoying All Things Good for your podcast, hop on over and leave us a five star review so we can continue delving in and providing great content. Thanks again and we hope you are inspired to stay informed and responsible along your health and wellness journey.

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