EP 24 Nootropics

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That with all supplementation. Whether it's just supplements, nutraceuticals, you know, or nootropics, low and slow is always the best way to start.

Hello friends. You are listening to the All Things.

Good for your podcast.

I'm your host, Brian Bowen, founder of.

Integrative Health Inc. And I'm Amy Christiansen, your co host and creator of Amy Christensen Health and Wellness Coaching.

Join us as we explore the world of health and wellness and all the that make you feel good. From ancient traditions to modern advancements and technologies that give you the tools for a life well lived.

What new paths might you discover on your health and wellness journey? Tune in each week as we deep dive into a variety of concepts and hear from other fun, passionate health and wellness experts on their experiences and philosophies.

And remember, stay open minded and integrated.

Good morning, Brian.

Hello. Hello. Good morning to you. How are you doing, Ms. Amy?

I'm doing quite well on the sleepy snowy spring morning.

Yeah, it's really, it's really slushy out. I just took the garbage out and it's my tennis shoes. Wasn't a good idea to go out there in those, so some sloppy socks on right now. So I'm wide awake and alert.

Well, it's better than it being icy.

Oh yeah.

We both have to get out and get out in it today.

Hopefully my grass will be magically green in two days.

Wouldn't that be nice? It's like thunderstorms in when I lived in Texas. I think it does it here too, but we just don't have thunderstorms very often here. But the nitrogen and the air from the lightning that makes the grass just super intensely green. I believe that's the science behind it.

I think that's good. Yeah. I wish it would do that to my hair, not make my hair green.

Make your hair green.

Like all of a sudden my gray is gone and my hair is like, you know, bold.

And I think if you like, are we talking enlightening and. Because it might turn it all gray.

I'm reaching this morning. I'm reaching, but.

But I like that we just jumped right on the green, green jump because today is St. Patrick's Day, so Patty's Day. Happy St. Patty's Day. The luck of the Irish be with you.

Do you have any green on? I'm sitting in front of a green screen. I don't have green. I guess I can just put it over me like a cape.

I. Yeah, you do have a green screen. I have a green blanket on and I have. Okay, my friends laugh at me, but I have these, like, booties from the 80s, although I didn't buy them in the 80s, I bought them recently for camping. And they're like the down booties. And I put them on in the mornings when I get around, when I walk around. I also use them for camping, but, you know, they're green, so that counts. So I'm nice.

What are those called? I think I have some of those.

I don't know. I got them years ago when I lived up in the mountains and they're just green. They're. They have a hard sole, like house shoes, and they're like, go up your leg a bit so I can make them taller and they look like something out of the 80s. My friends laugh at me, but that's okay. They can laugh. I love bringing joy to everyone.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Mine don't have a hard soul. Mine have a soft soul. Oh, man.

Is there. Oh, mine's not super hard. It's just comfortable. So I can walk around the campgrounds if I wanted to.

That's good. Camping season is coming soon.

I know.

I'm.

I'm. I'm not done with skiing yet, but I am looking forward to camping season.

Woohoo. Well, should we talk a little bit about. This is kind of a little piggyback onto our brain health conversation podcast that we had a while back, and we were wanting to spend a little bit more time on talking about supplements, nutraceuticals and pharmaceuticals as it relates to brain health. I believe that's what we're going to talk about. Are we going to have a surprise conversation today?

Well, I'm going to take a little sip of some natural nootropics right now in my delicious coffee so that my brain wakes up. And I remember what we talked about, but yes, we did. That's where we're going. We had a nice long chat about brain health on our last podcast and we're going to kind of spin a little bit off of that and talk about a little things that are good for your brain, possibly. So maybe some things that are good for your brain, possibly.

I did see one of the stacking formulas, if you will. So sometimes with nootropics, they'll do certain stacking to offset certain side effects from other things. So caffeine is, I believe, stacked with L theanine, which is an amino acid, but it helps to prevent the anxiousness and the jitters from the coffee. So we should all just, like. We could drink more coffee. We can just put some L theanine drops into it. So. Or.

Or drink. Or drink green tea. So you get it. That's one of the nice benefits of drinking green tea, which I do often switch back and forth. But green tea has L theanine in it naturally, so. So you can get a caffeinated green tea that doesn't give you jitters.

There's another. And I know we're jumping ahead here, but there's another nootropics. That is a serotonin inhibitor, I believe, that is natural in green tea, which makes you feel mellow, mellow and happy.

Yellow. Mellow.

Mellow yellow. Something like that. Anyway.

Green mellow, green mellow, green mellow.

Either way, I gotta tell you, they all make me pee a lot, so. Sorry to say that, but green tea and coffee, I love it. But I will pee for, like, half the afternoon afterwards, so. Which is a good purge. Right. It's good to get things moving so.

Well, I know caffeine's a, you know, natural diuretic, so you might be super. Are you sensitive to caffeine? Because I'm. I am not. I mean, obviously I have some sensitivity, but I'm not, like, super jittery. I can drink quite a bit of caffeine and it doesn't overstimulate me. And then I can give it up pretty quickly and it doesn't throw me off.

Yeah, no, I. I could drink some espresso and go right to bed. It doesn't. It doesn't affect me that way. It's more of a. I like it because it's more of a nurturing. Actually, the biggest nootropic, and it's actually not a nootropic, but for me, literally is taking a shower, hot shower. Like, I feel like a superhuman after I take a shower in the morning way more than coffee wakes me up, so. But coffee is my comfort. Nurturing. I'm not at work yet. I'm cozy. It's kind of like my free time, you know?

Yep, I like it. That's my morning routine there. Except for the cold shower. I don't.

The cold shower. Oh, yeah.

I'm not going there yet. I'm not going there yet.

No. You can do it. You can do it. I think we should just have a half hour conversation about coffee. It sounds like, what's your favorite bean?

Hey, actually, let's do that. Let's make a. I have some guests we can bring on for that, some special guests that have been quite knowledgeable in the coffee world. So we can do that in the future. But today we jumped right in like nootropics, water nootropics. We'll get into that. But you want to also cover a couple of other interesting topics that have been coming up in your world lately.

Well, yes, a couple things first, I think as it goes to brain health, let's talk just briefly. And this is going to be a very superficial in regards to this, but I think we need a little bit of a better understanding of supplements, nutraceuticals and nootropics because there's a little bit of a bridge between all of them. And so just briefly, you know, when we're talking about brain health, if you didn't listen to the previous podcast, go back and listen to it because it was a lot of natural things and ways to do to, to help with your brain health. And then there's the segment of mouth, what you put in your mouth as far as food and, and supplements and hydration and so supplements are more food based stuff. Right. So you know, it is food or an herb. And then a nutraceutical is a compound that's pulled from that food matrix. So it's more of a specific compound that is from a food based thing. So you know, you could be pulling a certain compound, for example, from green tea, you could isolate thing versus you're taking a green tea supplement. Right. Or, or from ginger. Right. You could be pulling something specifically from that versus the whole, the whole plant material itself. So a nutraceutical is still naturally derived from a food based thing. It's part of the food matrix and it's, it's isolated. And so then nutraceuticals, there's actually three different categories. We're focusing on natural, not nutraceutical. Sorry, I clearly need some brain boost. Right.

Nootropics, it's easy to get them all mixed in there.

Yeah. So you have pharmaceutical based ones. Right. That are used to treat, to treat a variety of health conditions. But the natural, the natural ones are again, you know, more natural base, but they're derived, a lot of them are affect, how they affect neurotransmitters, how they affect our mood, how they affect our performance, our mental performance, and, and Things like that. So common. Some common ones, for instance are some amino acid based type things. And so you know, they'll compound.

Yeah. And they're like precursors to some of the other things that would naturally be happening in our body that maybe, maybe have been blunted or stunted or confused. But and just to clarify, like nootropics, some people say nootropics and some people say. I can't say it the other way. Nootropics. Yeah, I know, but Tropics.

Tropics. Tomato, tomato.

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Yes, it's a tropic tinnitus.

Tinnitus, yeah.

Femur. Femoral, yeah, yeah. Nootropics. But they're generally. The nootropics specifically are geared towards cognitive function. Right. And enhancing cognitive processes. So we'll just put that out there because I don't know, you want to talk about some other stuff and I don't know what it is. It's like a little present. It's a surprise.

Well, I, I think. Well, now you're going to build it up. It sounds really exciting and it's not that exciting, but actually I got excited. So I, you know, I took two years of, of Chinese herbology when I was in school for traditional Chinese medicine. And you know, we really. You learn a lot about the herbs and the herbal properties and, and there's kind of two components to it because there's actually the herbal energetics and. But I recently took a pharmacology class that I was really amazed at how much I just really loved it. It was really challenging and it went through the pharmakinetics and pharmadynamics of drugs and herbs and stuff like that. And so the pharmakinetics is how it moves through our body and the pharma dynamics are how it acts upon our body to keep it simple. But the reason I wanted to bring this into play a little bit is because the supplement nutraceuticals and all that is a billions of dollar industry out there. And I totally support. I totally support it. But I do think, you know, we have such access to it that we are taking recommendations from people who work at the vitamin store. We're taking recommendations from this person, or we're taking recommendations from, you know, something we see on TV or an ad that pops up on our computer. And, you know, it's almost like a horoscope. Like, even when I give people herbs, sometimes I'm giving somebody that. I'm like, I need that, too, right? And so sometimes, you know, you hear about the benefits of it, and it's easy to connect it to how it can help us. So I just think we need to move carefully through that. But there are two components I really want to bring up. There's so much to understand about how these act upon our body. But the two things I want to really emphasize and talk about briefly is to be very aware and do some extra research on what you're taking. The two components to think about is the bioavailability of the substance you're taking, so how much of it is actually utilized or absorbed and kind of linked to the body, if you will. And then the other is the therapeutic window. So where in the therapeutic window is the. The. The space between? Where's the therapeutic benefit to? Where is the toxic load or where does it start to have adverse side effects or become harmful? So that space between, you know, is that therapeutic window I am now thinking of.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because the space between. Now I'm seeing in Dave Matthews all day today. If you don't know that song by Dave Matthews, we're going to be talking about that. The space between. That's all I got. That's all I got.

Sorry. You know, it's funny that, because when you go to his concert, you're singing every word, but you really don't know every word. But everybody's singing it, too, so you're just like. You're still. You still sing it so you look like, you know, you sing every word.

I think it's something like the wicked lies we tell. The space between. He's such a great songwriter anyway. Dave Matthews. We love you.

Yeah. So.

Yeah.

So that therapeutic window. So basically, when you're. When you're going to be taking a supplement, really make sure you look to find out. I feel like they should put that therapeutic window on there, on everything. But there's so much of it that hasn't been tested, really, to be honest with you, that isn't out there for that reason. You know, the data is not there, that hasn't been researched to where that therapeutic window is. So if you're going to start taking a supplement, see if you can find out the therapeutic window. Make sure you cross reference with other supplements you take. Vitamins and minerals are, you know, in so many different things. So you could be taking three or four different supplements and loading up on too much of one. And so an example of this would be calcium. So calcium, the, the, the dose that was recommended, that, that is recommended by the FDA and so forth is I think 1000mg for women. I could be wrong on that. I'm just using this as an example. But they base it off of what they believe to be the average percent of bioavailability of a supplement. So they're basing that number off of a 5 to 10% bioavailability. So whatever supplement the supplement you're taking, they're basing that you're only going to absorb and you're only get. Your body's only going to be utilized, I guess I should say 5 to 10% of that. Right, right. And so if you buy a supplement that is more bioavailable, sometimes they market more bioavailability, but that's not really backed by some research either. So, you know, a, you could be spending more for, for a better bioavailable thing. And I do believe quality is important. But, and then so let's say it really is more bioavailable and now all of a sudden you're getting 30% of that that's actually being utilized now. You're, you're overdosing yourself. Right. And that can become a toxic load. So you're outside of that therapeutic window. So, you know, make sure you, you understand a little bit about what your body really needs and then of that nutraceutical, if you will, or supplement what the bioavailability of it is and make sure you're in that therapeutic window. And I know that's complicated, but. And those are two things that I do wish, like after taking this pharmacology class that should be on the bottle, like, here's your therapeutic window. But a lot of people going back to taking many supplements, the compounding effect, just like we talk about the compounding effect of stress, just like we talk about the compounding effect of good habits and all and all that stuff, the compounding effect, if you're taking three different supplements and each one of those supplements have, you know, 750 milligrams of calcium in it. Right. You know, you. Now you're taking this, this, this compounding effect of a mass amount.

Well, we won't even, I don't think we, we just have to even say, like, there's no, I think with supplements there's no FDA regulations either. So they're not that. That's 100%, but it's a starting point. Yeah, just check because you don't know what you're getting. And there's multiple ways they get calcium into these and they can calcium from a couple of different sources that may not be the best for your body and may cause more harm than good. So you've really got to research what you're. Like you said, what you're putting in, how much you're getting in. And then don't forget you're oftentimes, I mean, the best place to get your food is through, I mean, your vitamins and this from your eating whole foods. Now, we can't always get the amount of vitamins we need now. That's why we've created supplements because of poor food quality. But you can still just like vitamin A, like you're saying you. With calcium, vitamin A, and too much of a dose is. Is dangerous, and you can have some pretty bad side effects from that. So you can get vitamin A from a lot of your food naturally. So you have to be careful that you're not overdosing yourself with a supplement that has a lot of vitamin A in it.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the, the effects of that on how it interacts with other things you're taking too, you know, is important. So. And again, this isn't your job to know that necessarily that, you know, if you're taking a certain medication, certain things you should avoid. But there are some things that can affect the binding of whatever drug you're taking. And so if too much or too little, if it unbinds a certain thing to bind it to certain proteins, then you have more active drugs in your system than what you should, because they also calculate when you take a certain drug that there's a certain amount of binding to proteins that go on. And then you have this amount of free drug in the body. And so if you disturb that binding process, then you can, you can OD on that too. And OBD is a strong word. There's, you know, there's a handful of drugs out there for sure, that have a very small therapeutic window, and those are the ones you have to be cautious with. So if you're taking A drug that you can ask your doctor, what's the therapeutic window of this? Right. Is it a small therapeutic window? Medium or large? Right. You don't have to even get too detailed, but that gives you some leeway. But if they're like, oh, this is this drug, you have to be extra careful. Small therapeutic window. Okay, well, what things should I avoid that could actually cause this drug to be more free in my system versus the amount that, you know, they calculated. And so it's crazy. There's. But, you know, it's very eye opening just to, you know, how cautious you need to be. And again, you know, pharmaceutical or nutraceuticals and supplements and stuff like that, it's very rare to have, you know, some of these things. But, you know, it's. It is important to like, start paying attention, you know, more to it if we're going to be. If we're going to be taking a bunch of stuff and then the interactions on how they play a role with each other.

Yeah. And I know you're kind of focused in on the medical grade, the pharmaceutical portion of that right now. And obviously with our supplements, as far as nutraceuticals go, like you said, it's hard to overdose in the amount that we're thinking of. There are a few key ones that you want to be careful with. Most of the time you just urinate them out or pass them and clear it. But nootropics, they're even more safe. Right. So the biggest side effects of taking too much or overuse at a long period of time is more that your body stops naturally producing it. You become slightly dependent upon it, and things like headaches and stuff can occur on some of them. Melatonin is a perfect example of a nootropic that, that you can take safely for the most part. And again, we are not doctors and we are not prescribing any medications or nutritional medications.

No, actually, we're doing. What everybody should do is throwing a little more caution out there and just about being safe and knowledgeable. So, you know, the doctor should be talking about this more when you're giving a drug.

Yeah, yeah. Everybody's a little. Everybody's system's a little bit different. So 3 milligrams of melatonin might knock somebody out for the night and. And some other people might need five or ten, I don't know. Again, not giving any dosage recommendations. But your body can build up basically an intolerance. It's like your body just recognizes that it's coming from its own source so your body isn't as apt to make it itself. So cycling and being careful of how often you're taking the same type of nootropic there are some other ways like taking L theanine and some of the precursors to melatonin are, you know, cycling through those options so that you aren't always taking the same thing all the time. Just being aware again if you're taking the same thing all the time.

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What is it? How much of are you actually getting? What's it doing long term with your system? Do you need to take a break? Do you need to change it up? Talk with your medical provider about those things, right?

Hey guys, it's Brian.

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Yeah, and the nootropics are a little more short lived in the body and I think in general with supplements, I think well in dosing so a dose is a bolus and so when you're, when you're taking different, you know, boluses or doses to sometimes it's less and more frequent and so it's a stacking effect and so it can have a lot of benefit. But with all supplementation, whether it's just supplements, nutraceuticals, you know, or nootropics, low and slow is always the best way to start. And so even if you just do for a couple days, you're doing a lower dose to make sure how your body responds. Now you can, if you start to have a response in a negative way, you can easily stop it before it's gone too far. Right. Versus going straight to a big dose and then all of a sudden there's some sort of interaction or reaction and then that's a problem. So the biggest thing with supplementation and safety is start low and slow, build your way up and then the way you stack it and so forth. But they are shorter lived in the body. And with all of these too, I am not as sensitive to some herbs and stuff. I feel like if you get the right thing, your body reacts pretty quickly. If it's not necessarily the thing that hits it out of the park, you know, lower your expectations, you know, with, with a lot of these. Because it's not like you're taking, you know, you have pain and you start taking prednisone and two days later you feel like a superhero. Because the steroids are so awesome. Right. Even though they're bad for you, but they are awesome. Right. You feel, you feel it quickly. Where a lot of, a lot of these things you're not going to, you know, it's not like you pop a nutraceutical or something. All of a sudden you're like damn, I feel amazing today.

Unless it's coffee.

Yeah, exactly. Spiked with tequila.

Oh no, but don't do that to my coffee.

Mexican coffee. You haven't had a Mexican coffee.

I'm sure I have. I don't know that I've ever put tequila in my, my coffee. I Mean, I'm not against weirder, but. Yeah.

I mean, maybe it was just that moment in Mexico when they came and they poured it and they caught it on fire and it was flaming and like, you know, I don't know. That seemed delicious at the time.

But I mean, I've heard like the Mexican hot chocolate, of course, but I don't know what's. What's the liquor in, like, Bailey's and Kahlua. I don't know what that is. So that's.

Oh, it's in. I don't know.

Yeah.

What's the.

Yeah. What's the actual liquor made from?

But anyway, I don't know. That's a good question.

We should probably go check that out.

Yeah. Okay. So I do have a question because this isn't. So I feel like we threw some safety stuff out there. So I'm not. And it's funny because I'm not the safety police by any means. Like, I do the most dangerous stuff you've ever seen when it comes to safety, whether it's in my shop, if I'm like cutting metal with no safety glasses or, you know, have a board on my leg when I'm cutting it with a circular saw. Like, so for me to be a.

Safety place, that's the not good things for you podcast you're talking about.

We are going to have the antithesis. Antithesis of this. We're going to do that. But so we did some safety stuff. I feel like we defined a little bit the difference between some supplements, nutraceuticals and so forth. What are some good nootropics? Throw a couple, like ones that are your favorite or from your research that you feel like for brain health, just to tie this back into brain health that you feel like are some yummy ones that are safe that people that should look at first.

Well, a lot, A lot of them are well known. Like I say, like ginseng, ginkgo goodness. There's quite a few. A lot of lion's mane mushroom is becoming really popular now. Ashwagandha is more of a nervous system. It is good for brain health because it helps lower anxiety and helps with calming you. So. But remember, it's a nightshade. So. So some people who are allergic to nightshades can't take asha gonda. Just remember that.

And that's really. That's probably not a new. Technically a nootropic. So that, you know, some of those are more nutraceuticals. Right. Or even more supplements. But yeah.

And again, I'm not an expert on nootropics, but I believe Ashwagandha is considered a nootropic. But I am not positive. And there are nootropics that are available in, outside of the United States that are quite effective that are for some reason not allowed in the United States.

That's because you see purple flying elephants when you take them or it, you.

Know, decrease decreases funding for another product that makes a lot of money in this country. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. You know, we have a brain health nootropic one at the office and I'm not gonna say what brand it is because I'm, it's a, you know, I'm not, I'm not here to plug a brand, but we do have one and you know, I, my mom takes it, you know, loves it. I think it's a good brand. So the one thing I would say is like the brand we have at our office, they actually give you the research that's been done on the certain things. I've actually had them even recall certain things because new research showed something different. So that's the kind of company I like. So if you're out there and you're looking for a company of a product to use, you know, do they support that, right? Do they support like where they give you research and you know, pull something if the data changes and so forth. And so, you know, that's a good company to look at. But you know, a lot of, a lot of them do have, you know, some different amino acids and neurotransmitter type stuff that affects again neurotransmitters and GABA and you know, blah blah blah. So blah blah blah and blah blah blah blah blah.

It's going to be our tagline, blah blah.

We no longer, we don't deep dive.

We don't deep dive, we blah blah blah.

I want to go to. Forget this. Like we, we need to go to the beer spa and sit in that hot tub and like have beer and do a podcast in there. I mean, I still think that sounds. Love that. Today seems like a great day for that.

I actually, I had a friend that just went to the, the beer spot. It sounds totally kooky to me, but hey, why not? It's. I, why not? Let's do beer spa day.

I just, I just never thought I would find hops down my pants.

I'm not going.

There you go, you go to the beach and you gotta, you gotta hose the sand out of your Crack. But like, what. What is this? I got some. Got some hops in my butt.

Oh my gosh, Brian, you're funny. We could just talk about hops and pants. I'm just. This is. Yeah, we were going to talk about nootropics today. Right.

So when you take too many, when you take too many, this is, this is what happens. This is the side effect. This is the side effect right here.

Well, and I think with nootropics, like you can check, it's a lot of herbs and supplements and things we don't even think twice about. Like I said, melatonin, melatonin, caffeine, L theanine, even sage is considered nootropic. But you can have nootropics that either give you cognitive focus and increased energy, but you can also have nootropics that relax you and calm you and bring, bring your system down. So you can, you can, you know, check on what you're taking and why. But there are a lot of options out there that are being scientifically backed with research and studies now that.

You.

Know, prove that they're quite helpful. So you may actually find some beneficial, possibly more than some pharmaceuticals.

Yeah, yeah. And people use them for mental clarity, for social interaction stuff, for performance, you know, mental and physical. So there's a variety of reasons, you know, why use it. But again, going back to our first podcast, the one thing I would definitely say.

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Drive Supplement second lifestyle first. So make sure you're getting sleep, make sure you're getting the right exercise. We had lots of mindful mind awareness type exercises and things to think about in the main podcast for brain health. So for me I feel like prioritize that first supplement second.

I agree Whole foods and lifestyle. So start there, make the changes there and then supplement and add in as you need to if little pockets are missing.

Well, speaking of pocket missing, my coffee's at the end here and I got nothing else to say about this, so I gotta go.

We gotta live. Now everybody go take out all of your bottles, all of your pills and research them. I think this is our takeaway message.

Yeah. What's the therapeutic window?

What's the therapeutic window? What's it interfering with? Are you really absorbing it? And talk with your doctor.

Yeah. Oh, there's one more thing. I do have something to say.

I knew you would.

Thank you. I know there is another, there is another component that isn't really researched. But also, first of all, it's your experience if something feels good to you, like who, who are, who is anybody to say this? This isn't proven to be effective, right? So how do you feel? But the other thing is like for instance, with supplements, you know, there's what is it that is available, what chemical compound is it that is in there? But the other thing that isn't talked about as much is the energetic properties of it. This is going to get woo woo for a second. But for instance, homeopathic medicine, right, is all about the energetics. Chinese herbology has a component of what are the chemical constituents, you know, in those herbs that's causing this to interact with this, to interact with this. But there's very much an energetic property to it too. So they'll talk about like this herb drains, damp, heater clears, you know, this, this meridian or this channel. And so it gets into this kind of energetic, you know, these are warm, these herbs are warming and invigorating type herbs. These herbs are cooling and these herbs are yin nurturing. These herbs are yang nurturing. These herbs are help strain, essence and jing. So they have these like fun little things. So it's kind of like they think about the energetics of it and they think about, you know, what the chemical compound structure is as well. So there is this other side of supplementation to think about is the energetic side. Like what is the nature of that substance energetically and how does it affect the body? And so if you want to geek out a little bit, you can totally geek out on that. And there's a great book, I'll plug him because I've used him for years. There's a book called Paul Pitchford and it's, the book is called Healing with Whole Foods. I guess the author's Paul Pitchford, sorry. And he is a western and eastern nutritionist and herbalist and so he actually will take a food like, you can look up broccoli, for instance, and it gives you all the Western properties of it, but all the energetics and Chinese herbology properties of it as well, and the symptoms, why you might eat this food or. And so forth. So there's some cool, like, little tcm, little traditional Chinese medicine, but yet Western scope in there. So it's a pretty cool book. And he's like, probably on version 12 now.

His name again?

Paul Pitchford. Actually, you know what? We're gonna bring him on as a guest.

Okay.

Yeah. So we're gonna reach out. I've never talked to the guy in my life, but I feel like. I feel like I know him. And we need to have a conversation with Paul Pitchford.

That'd be so amazing, because I'm guessing you're saying that because I just. I just pulled him up because I think this is fascinating, and he is. He is an older gentleman, so I will make sure he's alive before we pull him on as a guest. I mean, maybe we could channel him. I don't know. I'm joking, and I think it's really interesting. I do think we should do a podcast as well after our caffeine one and our Paul one on more Chinese herbs and medicine, because I think. I think it's just fascinating. What did you. You gave me something. What was it about my liver wind rising?

You gave me some Tiama Gutenian.

Yeah, that one.

Yeah.

And what was it supposed to help me? What was it supposed to help me with again? So.

So that one is for what we call a liver wind. Yeah, liver wind and heat kind of rising and stre stirring. So it will affect, like, help with irritability. It helps with too much. What we call liver yang rising to the head, which can cause tinnitus, ringing in the ear.

That's right.

That's what it is.

So, yeah, I was.

Xiaoya San is the one that's good. Really? Just for agitation and irritability from liver.

Qi stagnation, liver chi stagnation, and liver qi stagnation happens because of what?

Well, liver in Chinese medicine is like the conductor of our whole body. So if you think about, like, you're at an orchestra and your conductors, like, in the rhythm, in the zone and effortlessly, just beautifully moving. And so everybody's playing well together, and all of a sudden. But picture your picture, your conductor, like, is his or her spouse left? They were in a car accident on the way. They're running late, and, you know, they're Just agitated and irritable and. And all of a sudden they're up there and they're like, they're swinging their stuff around and everybody's playing off and stuff like that. So it kind of has to do with the flow, the smooth flow of everything. Now, obviously it still has straight up liver functions as far as what the liver does, but it also has to do with, like, the smooth flow and movement of stuff and the coordination of things, too. So, you know. You know, you can. Yeah, you.

You had given that. You given that to me when my life was kind of flipped upside down a little while back and it was full of chaos and I was a little irritable. I think it works.

It helped a little Shaya San in your coffee every day, and we're good to go.

I love it. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do a podcast. Deeper into some good Chinese medicine and herbs, because it's just fascinating to me, and you're the only one that can pronounce those words in this group, so. So we'll go with you on that one.

No, actually, I think we're gonna have Tess on for that because she said.

She wouldn't do it. She doesn't want to talk.

Well, you know what? I'm gonna have to pull a. Pull a card on that one. So we'll change that. I mean, she's got. She's such a loving personality and knows what she's talking about when it comes to this. She says that, but she's gonna, like, have a ball. I know it.

Yeah. Tess works with us. She's a colleague and she's amazing. Yep. So let's get her on here. Okay.

All right, let's do it.

This was fun. This was fun. Yeah.

Surprise. Thank you so much, Amy, as always, and thank you for listening and go explore the world of health and wellness and all things good for you. Make sure you listen to all the previous podcasts if you have not, and also make sure you continue to share this with friends, family, and loved ones. We love doing it and are here for you and to help encourage people to explore the world of health and wellness and get curious.

Curious. Give us a. Like. Give us a. Give us a review so we can keep on going. All right.

All righty.

Be careful out there on the snowy roads today. Bye, Brian.

Thank you. Bye.

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