Ep 26 Chiropractic

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Oh, I have so, so, so, so many patients that are like, you know, I'm just not down with the neck adjustment. And I'm like, no worries. So one thing that I'll definitely do is.

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Hey.

Hey.

Good morning, Brian.

Hey.

Hey.

And actually for the first time, good afternoon because it is 12:03.

Calling me out, calling me out.

I don't know, I just, I just looked and it's kind of a different vibe right now. I don't have coffee in my hand.

Well, okay, so I was going with our normal 5am wake up call podcast timing, which is not true, but I just got out of the shower and I have coffee, but it's decaf coffee because I'm trying to take care of my adrenal glands.

Ooh, that sounds good. So caffeine in the morning and then what's your cutoff? 12. And then you go to decaf.

Well, you know, I've actually really cut back a lot on my coffee. I'm not a full believer of no caffeine. I think there's a lot of research. We've talked about this, right? Like we've talked about these things in our previous podcast. There's a lot of research that supports the coffee oils and a little caffeine, especially for female mental health and the survival of the male species. I believe that caffeine is okay, but there are times when we have to like Just pay attention to what's going on with our body and cut back. So I had a little adrenal extreme fatigue, near, near exhaustion a couple of years ago actually, when I joined you guys, I was kind of dealing with that and I think I've not really done a good job of fully healing that space. So I'm revisiting a little bit of my own medicine and my advice for people. So that's just part of it.

Very proud of you.

Cutting back a little bit. Organic coffee all the way though. By the way, guys, get, get under the organic coffee world. It's one of the worst pesticide, chemically ridden things we ingest on a daily basis. So go organic.

Well, I'm inspired from our last podcast and I'm doing a probiotic smoothie. So for you guys who didn't listen to the last podcast podcasts on prebiotics and probiotics, I just added some to my smoothie and just rocking it out.

So we will reiterate that Brian refuses to accept that the best time to take your probiotics is at night.

But we'll.

It's okay. It's fine.

God. See, now we're just calling each other out today. I think it's time to bring somebody else into the show.

Let's do. I'm excited about today. We have a lovely guest to join us today to talk about something interesting.

I know I always love talking about services. It's fun talking about some of the philosophical health stuff that we talk about and neuroplasticity and some of the sciency stuff. But we're gonna break it out and break into some science stuff as well, a bit more around the service industry, around health and wellness. And so we're going to be talking about chiropractic, which I love. I'm a huge chiropractic fan and I really believe, like chiropractic, acupuncture and massage are kind of my three the triads of health and wellness for me, receiving some passive therapy. So I'm a big, big, big fan.

And I, you know, I know a little bit about chiropractic, but I'm gonna have a lot of interesting. Well, I'm gonna be very intrigued by what we chat with Ms. Haley about. And I've done some chiropractic, had chiropractic work done, of course, but be interesting to hear and learn a little bit more because I have never really super delved into the deep land of science and chiropractic. Of course, I know a little bit just off of my experience in physical therapy and working with you guys right at the office there.

Yep.

I think there's some good questions that usually come up to working with clients around chiropractic, and some of them are, you know, information that people have been misled on. So I'm really excited to. To talk about some of those things a little bit more and bring some more clarity to that aspect of what chiropractic is and what can help. And of course, there's different people who have different comfort levels. So how can somebody adjust their style and stuff like that to accommodate that patient? So I'm super excited. Dr. Haley Nick is joining us. She just joined our integrative health team and has her own personal practice as well.

And.

And she is a super amazing, energetic, smiley human being. So with no Further ado, welcome Dr. Haley Nick.

Hello.

Hi, Haley.

Amy. I'm drinking coffee too, actually.

Bam.

Bam. I just wanted to. And it's half caf, so we're on the same page. Yeah, we're on the same page today.

Coffee addict. I just enjoy the flavor of it so much. I don't put anything in mine. I like it just black and I. That's never going to go away.

Coffee comfort. Coffee comfort.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, I'm super excited to have you on today, and I. I think we should just jump in, share a little bit of background. I know you like to specialize as. I mean, you treat a variety of patients, but have a specialty and passion for pediatrics as well and working with pregnant moms and all that good stuff. So if you don't mind, let's just throw you in there and tell us a little bit about your background and what you love to do.

Yeah. So, yeah, I don't have a long history of receiving chiropractic care, but I definitely started to learn about it. Probably like the last few years that I was in my undergrad, I started lifting weights, working out more. I competed in powerlifting for, like, a few years. And, you know, with that type of exercise and load that you put on your body, of course, injuries come about. So then I looked into different things like physical therapy and chiropractic. So those were the two different types of services that I kind of dove into. And I loved both of them, especially loved chiropractic and loved going to my chiropractor. And that was when I kind of figured out that that is what I wanted to do. So after undergrad, I went to Palmer Chiropractic College. Was there for about four years. And while I was in school, I heavily was focused on sports injury because that was kind of what got me into it. So heavily focused in sports injury and wasn't too interested in the prenatal pediatric specialty that I am very interested in now. But as time went on and learned different things in school, I started to learn about how important it is for pregnant moms to get adjusted, how important it is for pediatric patients to get adjusted. And then I kind of blended the two into being able to use the techniques that I use for sports injury, like soft tissue treatment and stretching and exercise, to blend that in with my prenatal care as well, which I think is kind of what sets me apart from other chiropractors. Cause I'm kind of hitting it from different angles. Not just hitting it from the structural chiropractic, bony adjustment angle, but also hitting it from the soft tissue angle as well.

Well, I love the fact that you, again, we are huge proponents of getting into health and wellness and bringing awareness at an early age. So for you to work with parents and to already educate them and get them to know the importance of maintenance as prevention and to get ahead of it and be able to help us move through life more beautifully, more pain free, more integrated within our systems, I love it. So kudos. What a great. You know, a lot of people don't get their kids in early for like acupuncture or massage or something. But, you know, chiropractic is doing a good job of that. And I applaud you for spearheading and jumping in on that philosophy.

Yeah, I think the biggest hurdle with that is, you know, it. It seems a little bit weird, it seems a little bit foreign to take your, you know, sometimes newborn, sometimes days old, sometimes weeks old to a chiropractor. So I think the biggest thing, like when you are getting into that type of service for your child is asking tons of questions, being like, okay, what are we doing here? Like, what type of adjustment is this? Like, what should I expect from this? And honestly, your provider should be answering those questions for you even before you are able to ask the question. But I think that that is the biggest thing, like as a chiropractic provider, explaining everything, telling parents what you're doing. And that kind of lowers that barrier of entry for parents because they feel comfortable with you. And also if you treat them throughout their pregnancy, then they feel comfortable with you already. So that definitely helps as well.

I mean, it seems like developing in such a small space. And like, we think about how, like, our, our fascia and the bones and stuff like that all kind of developed in there that it's pretty cramped up. It seems like what a great idea when, when you come out of there into this, into this new world that you get kind of straightened out and get aligned and get everything kind of again in a just a better seated place because it seems seems pretty crampy and uncomfortable and kind of weird angles in there. And I know we're supposed to be like that, but still seems like a great idea to get an adjustment.

Oh yeah. Yeah for sure. And also.

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Aside from just, you know, being stuck in a very small place for a long time, just birth in general is very traumatic with different interventions that can lead to things like having to use forceps or even just the alignment of the pelvis and how that affects how birth is C section, that of course affects the way that structurally with newborns and affects them as they are developing. So those things too definitely, definitely play into it.

Hey, I don't want to throw you out there. Is there any stats that you know of, of reduction in C sections because of, of getting adjustments before you go into labor? Is there any research or studies out there?

Yeah, so stats I'm not, I, I definitely know the stats of medical intervention. So of course like induction increases your chance of C section. That is about a 46% chance increase to use Cytotec or Pitocin. You know, almost 50% chance increase in you needing a C section for multiple different reasons. But when it comes to, you know, pelvic alignment and how that affects you, the main thing that you'll hear from moms with their birth stories is that my pelvis just wasn't big enough. My baby was too big. Baby wasn't able to fit through the birth Canal. And a lot of the times why that can happen is because there is restriction within the spine, specifically the SI joint, which is that very, very lower joint right above your tailbone. And if there is restriction in that joint, which is what chiropractic is made to treat, if that bone is not able to move properly, then you will have that potential risk of baby not being able to progress, coming farther down into the birth canal and then having the most epic, best birth story you could possibly have.

Epic.

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, stats wise, I don't know the specific stats, but there definitely is research that say, you know, interventions, like the different types of. And, you know, intervention, meaning like using forceps, using vacuums, things like that. Not necessarily medical interventions, but using forceps, using vacuums. Those interventions can lead to potential trauma to newborns, like brachial plexus damage, what can lead to Erb's palsy, which is, you know, limpness in the upper limbs, you know, bruising, soft tissue damage to the baby's scalp, facial paralysis fracture, you know, all these very scary things. Just because there wasn't that space in the birth canal that can be treated with chiropractic.

I gotta tell you, I was a forceps baby. And me too. I have an abnormally long head. And if my mom would have got adjusted before, I could be much more beautiful than if that was even possible.

Thanks, Mom.

Yeah.

And in the, and the birth, you know, the medical birthing world, they. They are, they are reading the research, they are getting better. There's, you know, even when I was born, I mean, forceps and vacuums, that was, that was you. That was routine with birth, that nowadays is being used less, which is great. But even with, like I was saying, the most epic, best birth that you can possibly have, there is still twisting of the head to get out, to get out of the birth canal. If you are having any assistance from your OB and midwife. And that is just the way birth is taught. That is the way that medical providers are taught to receive babies. So, you know, unless you're squatting down and delivering your baby yourself, which of course, in my opinion is the best way that you can do it, there is some twisting of the neck, which is, you know, trauma to the spine.

All right, I just want to call this out real quick. So I don't know if I'm supposed to share this, but you are with baby. Are you going to be going squatting style? Are you doing the squatting style?

Yeah, actually, it was very funny. One of the, you know, Because. Because this stuff to me is just so, like, normal. Like these. These facts and these things. I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, this, that, and the other. And when I was explaining to my partner that there, you know, there are tons of different positions that you can give birth in to him, that was like. That was insane. He was like, well, you give. You give birth laying on your back, right? And I'm like, no. Like, absolutely not. Number one, you don't have gravity helping you whenever you're laying on your back. Number two, you know, then you need the assistance of a midwife or an ob. And then you are more likely to need the use of forceps or vacuums because you are in that, you know, less optimal position. But it, to me, like, that's how TV shows giving birth. That's how even.

Yeah.

You know, you know, laying on your back with your legs up. Mom, Mom, Mom's holding one leg, partner's holding the other leg. When really that is not the most optimal way to give birth.

Yeah, I got to participate, but not at that level. They didn't let me hold anything. They told me to stay out of the way.

Yeah, that was probably for the best, honestly.

I think it was. I think it was. Well, so I just want to bridge this real quick. And Amy, sorry if I get chatty with this stuff here, so jump in there anytime. But I was thinking about. So babies, this brings up the idea of safety, because clearly, if you're working with something so precious and gentle as a little baby. I know one question that has come up over the years with my patients in chiropractic, when I've recommended or referred them to it, is they were scared more of the cervical adjustments. And, you know, there's some people talk about some strokes happening and stuff like that. So I just wanted to bridge that. If you can be so gentle with a baby and you can work with this precious little thing, you know, all the way through, you know, your 80s and 90s, working with older people without, you know, causing a damage. If you could just touch on the safety aspect a little bit and kind of. And jump into that.

Yeah. And talking about this is my jam, as it should be every chiropractic provider, because people are asking this question all of the time. So to start with the pediatric side of chiropractic, a lot of pediatric adjustments are extremely gentle. What I always tell my patients moms is that we will use the amount of pressure as you would use if you were to touch your eyeball. If you're putting a contact lens in to touch your eyeball. That is about as much pressure as you need to use for a pediatric adjustment. The reason why is it like, it's like that is because they're, you know, there's not a lot of muscle development in babies. You know, a lot of the times with, you know, the more aggressive adjustments where we're treating through very hypertonic or tight muscles with babies, there really is none of that. They don't even really have the ability to be able to, you know, restrict us or fight us, which a lot of, you know, adults do whenever they get adjusted. So for that reason, very, very, very small amounts of pressure are used. And that is why it is deemed very safe, even, you know, in worst case scenarios. When it comes to risks with pediatric adjustments, the risks are, you know, and I'm saying risks in air quotes are even much lower in pediatric patients than they are in adult based adult patients. A lot of the side effects that you'll find with pediatric patients are redness of the skin, maybe some crying after an adjustment. You might get a full blowout in the diaper, which a lot of the times moms are very happy about. And that really isn't a bad side effect. But there aren't, there aren't too many, too many risks when it comes to pediatric adjustments. Of course, once you get into adult patients, there are different risks that you can, that you can look for and you should be looking for as a chiropractic provider. And the way that your chiropractor does that is by doing thorough examinations. And what I mean by that is, you know, you might think it's silly that every time you go to a new chiropractor, you have to have an exam done and they have to ask you questions and you have to do all these different tests. But the reason why we do that is to roll out or roll in reasons why you should or shouldn't be adjusted. So after we ask you all those questions, we do all these tests, then we can decide if chiropractic is right for you. And the biggest thing that people that I hear from patients is the risk of stroke. So whenever this first came about and there was this association between chiropractic and stroke, chiropractic journals, they dove right into doing tons and tons and tons of research. And I'm talking like huge study groups, thousands and thousands and thousands of people that were having strokes and they were looking at, okay, why did you have this stroke and was it caused by chiropractic? So the biggest study that Everyone talks about was done in this hospital in Ontario where they took every stroke patient coming into the hospital from 1993 until 2002, and they tried to figure out was this caused by chiropractic. And what they came up with was that it wasn't. So then you start to go down the road of, well, then why are these people having strokes when they leave the chiropractor, when they leave their primary care doctor and the reason being is that the main symptoms of a vertebral artery dissection, which is a stroke, vertebral artery dissection is the specific type of stroke that they were investigating if that was caused by chiropractic. And what they came up with is that the main symptoms of this is neck pain and headache, which, ding, ding, ding. Those are some of the main symptoms that people go to the chiropractor for. And they found that younger, younger patients were more likely go to the, were more likely to go to the chiropractor or older patients over 45, they were more likely to go to their primary care. And what they found is that the vertebral artery starts to dissect. And that and dissect means split in half. It starts to do that. And that is the beginning steps to a stroke. You know, that is what precedes having a full blown stroke. And what they found is that that dissection happens before that patient steps foot into their chiropractor's office or before they step foot into their primary care office. What then happens is the vertebral artery continues to dissect and then the patient has a stroke. And what they found is that actually more patients had a stroke leaving their primary care office than leaving their chiropractor's office. And that is what the most research evidence shows when it comes to chiropractic and the risk of stroke.

Oh, that's fascinating. I'm glad you told us that. And I always like to think about, you know, first of all, from my own personal experience, I've worked in and around environments where there's always, I've always had or worked with chiropractors, even very high volume ones. And I've never in 22 years have ever had a chiropractor who I worked with or worked for me, who's ever had that happen. And that's tricking a lot of people. But I'm always like, follow the money, because what's your liability insurance cost, if.

You don't mind me asking mine, since I am a third year chiropractor. So in practice, this is my third year. Mine was $600 this year.

Okay. So the highest I've ever seen from anybody that I'm sure that goes higher based off of claims or whatever that is.

6,000.

So even if it's $6,000 a year. Yeah, even if it's $6000 a year compared to a normal primary care or specialist. Right. That is extremely low. You know, they're paying 80 to $150,000 because unfortunately there's a lot more incidents that happen. So if there were a lot of incidents that happen, you would be paying at least. God, I would think 25, 30, 40, $50,000 a year. So when in doubt, follow the money. Hey guys, it's Brian. I just wanted to take a pause for a moment in the middle of this podcast to thank our sponsors, Ouch, who's helping to make this podcast possible today. Ouch believes everyone should enjoy what life has to offer without enduring pain. They are a pain relief company. Listen guys, I use their products a lot. Their proprietary herbal formula is built on top of a 2000 year old formula, giving it time, tested, effective results and I'm going to listen to that any day of the week. The combination of that with the foundry having over 22 years of experience hands on treating actual patients for musculoskeletal pain makes Ouch a very special company. Ouch is made with the highest quality certified herbs and CBD from organic hemp oil. Their ingredients are extracted with the utmost integrity to ensure the healing properties remain pure and concentrated to promote natural muscle pain relief and other benefits. I gotta tell you, I appreciate that so, so much. As a consumer I want to know what I'm getting is exactly what's being sold to me. So they take it a step further. They have a certificate of analysis for all their ingredients before it goes into production and then they also get a certificate of analysis after post production to ensure that you're getting what you're paying for. Listen here guys. Don't settle for a lesser version of your best self. When you can feel your best today, check out out at Ouch Shop that's spelled outc H dot Shop for a full line of their products. They're an amazing company. I use their products on a daily basis. Check them out.

The biggest thing, I mean chiropractors and specifically, I mean I can only speak for my school, but we are taught to be so.

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Aware of that and just to ask so many questions. Are you dizzy today? Are you nauseous? Do you have a headache? You know, different orthopedic ex exams that we can do to try to roll that out and you know, we're doing that if you know, you're practicing to the best of your ability and somebody comes in with neck pain and you're doing all of these tests. You know, I have had a few patients where I'm like, you know, I just don't feel comfortable adjusting your neck today. Let's, you know, let's give it a, let's give it a few days, see what happens if your symptoms, you know, continue. You know, let's, let's check it out, let's get some imaging, things like that. So I think we are almost like hyper aware of screening for that. Whereas I don't know, if you went to a different provider they would be.

So yeah, well there's, there's, there's different adjustment styles too. Totally accommodate for, for some of these concerns. So even if somebody was like, I am hesitant to come here, like what are some of the other.

Oh my God, 100%. Oh, I have so, so, so, so many patients that are like, you know, I'm just not down with the neck adjustment and I'm like, no worries. So one thing that I'll definitely do is soft tissue work on the neck. So working on the muscles, whether that is like using. I do a lot of like instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization. So like using a tool to break up scar tissue and muscle. You can also use this little tool that a lot of chiropractors use called the activator, which is a very, very low force adjustment and even just adjusting around the area. So adjusting the back has a great effect on the way the neck functions. So you're still, you know, even if you're like, oh, I have neck pain. I want to go to a chiropractor, but I don't want to get a neck adjustment. There are tons of different things, at least that I know specifically that I do to help my patients where it doesn't always have to include a neck adjustment. And if you go to a chiropractor that tells you that they can't treat you without giving a neck adjustment, you leave and you find a different one.

Yeah, yeah.

Because there's some. Sorry, go ahead, Amy. No, you go for it.

And on that point, at some point. I know you have another question there, Brian, but I do think it's important. Like, Haley, do you have some, like, key points if somebody's looking at going to a chiropractor, the things that they should be able to spot and recognize? Maybe. Maybe there's a little concern or maybe this is a good fit, or maybe I should look somewhere else. Are there a few questions that they should know right off?

Oh, yeah, totally. I would say biggest thing would be your first appointment. If you are asking questions that you. And this is, gosh, this is with any provider, any doctor, anything, if you are asking questions that that provider, number one, cannot answer, number two, doesn't seem like they want to answer. And number one, if they say that they cannot answer, they better follow that up with. But I'm going to figure that out, and I'm going to get back to you. If you feel like that provider isn't listening to you and isn't at least trying to answer your questions, that is a huge red flag. And that's like a no go for me. Like, find a different provider. And that is within any specialty. Specifically with chiropractic, I would say big red flags for me are big treatment plans. Someone that wants to see you multiple times a week, someone that wants you to pay thousands of dollars for a treatment plan straight out the gate. There's not a lot of research to support that multiple adjustments a week are beneficial. What the research does show is after you reach a certain level of care, getting adjusted every four to six weeks is what is mostly beneficial for most people, depending on, of course, you know, your comorbidities and other things going on with you. But generally, I would say that. So chiropractors that are telling you you need to come in once a week for the next year, that's a big red flag. Anyone that wants to do, you know, wants to do imaging to talk about Alignment of your spine, imaging to rule out specific disease and illness. That is different versus imaging to talk about different alignment of your neck or you know, alignment of your, of your hips if one hip is higher than the other. The reason why a lot of unfortunately chiropractors do that is they use a lot of fear based medicine. You know, they say, oh my goodness, the curvature of your spine right here, that's affecting the way that your, that your heart functions and your stomach functions. And this is really bad. If you don't come in once a week, then this is going to get even worse. That is fear based medicine. And that is another big red flag that I would say find, find a different chiropractor for sure.

Well, I hope, I hope there's not a lot of chiropractors listening to this because you're not making friends right now.

I know. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I mean I, I'm very, very evidence based when it comes to like stuff that I say. The way that I practice in any which way I follow what evidence says is beneficial. And I think that that's how most people should practice. So I mean if anyone does want to come after me, I have tons of research that I could send them. But yeah, so we got your back.

Now I will say real quick, if you don't mind me, just, just be on the other side of this for a minute on two things. And again, it's not, it's more from a, just a different perspective, I guess. But I do feel like a lot of people are visual learners. So maybe the X ray for some people even, even if you don't have a chiropractor come at it from that perspective. Especially like I think when somebody has a decreased curvature in their, in their cervical spine or it's actually reverse.

Right.

To where people can be like, oh, I, now I get it. You know, so.

Right, totally.

Yeah.

Could be helpful.

Yeah. Which I think showing somebody that is much different than making it sound very scary. Yeah.

So pay attention to the presentation.

Yes, absolutely. Making it sound scary and saying that this, you know, is going to affect you in ways that you will never, you will never come back from unless you have my specific chiropractic treatment. I am definitely more so talking about it on the lines of that versus, you know, talking to somebody about like, hey, you have a lot of muscular stuff going on and this is the way it is affecting your neck and this is how I can help. That is very different for sure.

And I think it's similar I mean, we do the same thing with whether it's approach from, again, injury rehab in massage or with what Brian does, acupuncture. We. I'm not speaking for Brian, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same page. Like when we of course want to build a relationship and work and treat people as necessary and as needed, but we're more focused on the treatment that's effective for that person. And, you know, we recognize we're sensitive to one people's time, people's income and ability to put that money and time into their care. But also the effect of everybody's different and I can work on somebody and their body responds by far quicker than other people's. And it depends on so many factors, you know, their overall nervous system, their overall general health in other ways. Right. There are other comorbidities, abuse, as you've mentioned, even down to their hydration level. And so you really can't just say. And I have clients ask me quite often, well, how often do you think I should come in for this? How long do you think I should be seen for this? And you know, I always err on the side of, you know, let's, let's see how you feel in a couple of days. Some people do well coming in and treating it more, more effect more quickly or up front. And then you should be able to see a good progress with the stretches and exercises that you're doing in between, and then you should be able to ease out of that. And I think in general, it's what you had said, like that four to six weeks is a good timeframe to eventually be able to work out for expected treatment times.

Yeah. And like you were saying, a lot of things play into, well, how often are you going to see me? And I think the biggest thing, you know, is, you know, if, if I'm treating a professional athlete, you know, I, I see those patients way more frequently because of the damage that they are doing to their body with workouts and just the load that is on their spine versus somebody that is just, you know, generally active. So those things play a part in it. But also budget time, things like that. And I have people that are like, I just feel really good getting adjusted every week. And I'm like, heck, yeah. Like, I want to get adjusted every week too. But you know, whenever it comes to time and being able to afford it, that definitely comes into play as well.

Go ahead. Oh, sorry. I see, like, I always think about when I'm treating somebody too, like, I do ideally want to see you a little more frequent at the beginning just to get ahead of the problem because it's. I always think about that muscle memory like you'll typically see with massage, especially, you know, soft tissue work where they felt good for a couple days starts kind of creeping back in. So I want to hit it, hit it again and try to re, you know, not let that muscle memory go back to where it was. But I think that that part of that too is the education about, you know, we're trying to throw water on the fire, but what things are you doing to throw logs on the fire? So if we can educate patients to have an understanding of like, for instance, I think about chiropractic. A lot of people go to work, back to work. They have poor posture, they're sitting at their desk. You know, they're causing, putting pressure on those same joint spaces. So to help educate them to, you know, take those logs off the fire. So then a, we're getting ahead of it and then they don't, they don't need it as much because that's also, you know, true prevention as well.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I was shaking my head the whole time that you were just talking.

Oh, I should have had my camera on so we could see.

Yeah.

I mean, patient education is hands down. And that's another reason why I love chiropractic and I love chiropractors is that we love talking about what we do and we love explaining like, this is why we're doing it. This is why it's benefiting you because you know it.

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Number one people then understand what you're doing. You know, think of all the times you went to your regular doctor and you left being like, I have no freaking idea what our treatment plan is where I never Want someone to leave my office feeling, feeling like, oh no, like I don't, I don't know what the future plan is or how we're getting from point A to point B. And biggest thing is like, explain, explain, explain totally.

So if you go to your caregiver, whatever your medical professional, and you feel like you can't ask questions, you feel like you are being told what to do rather than it being an agreed upon care, and then if there's a big package involved and if you're not clear, if you leave a visit with no idea what's happening, what just happened, why or where it's going to go, these are all big red flags. No matter, like you said, doesn't matter who your medical professional is. You should be concerned that on all those topics.

Yeah, yeah, always, always advocate for yourself in any medical profession because you have to.

Yeah, I love it that you said that. We've, we've mentioned that numerous times because part of this podcast is to bring awareness, to get you to explore, to encourage health and wellness and try new things, but also to ask questions to all your healthcare providers. Another red flag to me, I just want to throw this one in there before I forget is if you go to. And I don't care that we're speaking about chiropractic, but this applies across the board too, is going to that health care professional that their modality is the end all, be all to fixing all the problems. And so I've definitely have met some chiropractors over the years and other healthcare professionals, professionals who felt like their technique, their style that would fix everything. And, and to me that's a red flag too. It's definitely in my perspective, there's different tools for different things and sometimes it's a integration of them that is the best and not one all be all modality or technique that can fix everything.

Yeah.

And down talking other modalities and other approaches are usually a good sign too. Like that's pretty common and obviously there's an opportunity to be concerned about how somebody may be working with a patient or a client and you can bring that to the table. But anybody who's just blanketly dismissing or insulting another modality, that's usually a warning sign there too.

Yeah, definitely. For sure.

So tell us, there's obviously a variety of chiropractic techniques out there. Share with us just some of the ones that you do for our folks listening.

Yeah, so I would say the first type of technique that I use, you know, on a daily basis is called motion Palpation, which is the way that I find restrictions in joints. So, you know, you have your spine, and over time, different things contribute to the way that your spine kind of gets, you know, stuck. Whether that be sports, sedentary, you know, job, the way that you walk, the way that you sleep, everything can contribute to that. So the way that I find those restrictions in the spine is moving along the spine, putting force into the different joints of the spine and checking if those areas of the spine have good motion, which is called motion by motion palpation. So then whenever I find those restrictions, I would say my main technique that I use is the diversified technique, which just means manual adjusting. So the adjustments that chiropractors do, where you hear cracks, I always say. I would say that would be my main technique. My second technique that I use a lot for cervical adjustments would be the Gansa technique. So very specific. Moving one segment of the spine versus multiple segments. That's kind of, in a very general sense, the way that that technique works. And then my third technique that I use most commonly would be the Thompson drop technique, which is, you know, when the table pops up and drops down and is a little bit loud, that is the technique that I use on pregnant mamas. So those are probably my top, you know, motion palpation, which is how I find restriction, plus my top three techniques. And then when needed, I do use the activator.

I love your neck adjustment. I love the Gunstead.

Oh, thank you. I know. I love it too. Yeah. And I feel like it's just. It's comfy. You know, you don't. You don't feel like your neck is super, you know, in a vulnerable position. And the biggest thing with, I mean, with all adjustments, not just cervical adjustments, is the. That reaction that you want to have to resist it, which doesn't promote an environment to have a good adjustment. So I have found over my years of practicing that people just respond better to that specific adjustment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a lot of clients that are very worried about that. So it's good to know that that's the approach you take. So how, in reference to pregnancies and mommies coming in for adjustments, is there a time frame or a limitation that they should be aware of? Adjustments?

Yeah, so not so much. I mean, I. I think that getting adjusted, you know, in the. In the earlier months isn't as important as getting adjusted in the later months, obviously, because as you progress in your pregnancy, there will be more pelvic hypermobility or, you know, more movement in the Pelvis, which decreases that spinal stabilization there is that like structural adaptation that happens the farther along that you are. So I would say, you know, the sooner the better. Because I always like to, you know, big on prevention over here, getting adjusted as soon as possible when you, when you are pregnant, just because that will reduce those chances of, of having lower back pain. But I wouldn't say that there's any restrictions other than, you know, a lot of people are like, well, how am I going to get adjusted with this big belly? And a lot of the times chiropractors will use different pillows so you can lay face down for adjustments or the tables will be able to adapt to move out of the way to make room for the belly. And even if you don't have those tables and you don't have the pillows, there are different adjustments that you could do side lying or face up as well, if that answers your question.

Yeah, absolutely. That's good to know.

Well, I think that people, you were talking about babies earlier and how, you know, it doesn't take much force because of muscles and lack of hypertonicity and stuff like that. So I just want to encourage everybody right now, like to start getting more frequent adjustments and especially as we're younger, because before all that hypertonicity starts to build up, first of all, it creates an awareness. But I wonder even if we're like, if you're 16 years old and you're getting adjustment, you are a lot more mobile and your tissue that hasn't developed a lot of hypertonicity from postural stresses and strains and just accumulation and the compounding effect of life. So it's better to get it now. I think that sometimes when things get fixed into a place and then that hypertonicity builds around that, that's when we can really get in trouble. And there's a lot of compounding effects. So while you're like butter, start getting adjusted before you become that well done steak. And also I think that the reverse, if you start getting adjusted, I think that that tissue response will start to relax a little bit as well. I think that there's got to be a reverse effect, I guess, on helping relax the tissues around a joint.

Yeah, you, you see a lot of that in kids with, you know, that compounding effect of the muscle and the way that the muscle responds with scoliosis. And that is like a big, what's the word I'm looking for? Like progressor of idiopathic scoliosis is poor posture, you know, things being not in the most optimal position and Then muscles around them being very tight can contribute to actually the progression of the curvature in the spine. With idiopathic scoliosis?

Yeah. I used to take my kids when they were younger and they would have sinus infections or sinus irritations and get them adjusted to avoid having to become a full infection and having to do antibiotics. Do you have good luck with that as well?

Yeah. So the biggest reason why that works is because whenever you are younger, the eustachian tube, the tube that connects, you know, your ears and has a lot of effect on the way that fluid sits in the inner ear canal, it is very horizontal. And as you get older, that eustachian tube becomes more vertical, which allows it to be able to drain easier. What adjustments of the neck can do is that when muscles in the neck are tight, it makes it very hard for that horizontal eustachian tube to be able to drain. So what they have shown is helpful is neck adjustments loosen up the musculature around that tube and actually allows it to drain, which then doesn't lead to full blown infection.

Yeah, that's great.

See, if my mom would have done that to me when I was younger too, I wouldn't have had to have tubes.

Tubes in your ears. Yeah.

Better looking and had better ears. Thanks.

Yeah, I know. I say the same thing to my mom because my mom always said, like, well, I didn't breastfeed you because it was too hard. And I'm like, well, maybe my immune system would be better, mom, if you would have just tried harder. You know, I'm sure you didn't have anything else going on and your life was, was just perfect. You could have at least focused on that. And she doesn't think that's a funny joke. That's right.

You'll be calling her and apologizing for a lot of.

Oh, my God, I'm already, I'm already. I'm like, mom, how are you? Like, I, I. Because my mom always used to say to me, like, I carried you for nine months and then I birthed you. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna totally say that to my kid. Like, 100%. Oh, 100%. Yes.

My kid, my son in particular. They would be like, but, mom, why? And I would be like, because I bore you. Do you know what?

You.

Do you remember how big of a baby you were? And they're like, okay, mom, okay, I birthed you. You will do whatever I asked you to do.

Yes. I brought you into this world. I'll take you out.

I hope that there's a lot of people that's going to listen to this or and pass this on to other moms expecting moms. And if you're already had a baby and your kids are older, just, you know, educate them. But hopefully we've convinced some people to start getting some chiropractic care. And I know I'm going to be seeing you on Wednesday, so I'm excited.

Yay. Can't wait.

I need to get my neck done before I jump on a plane on Saturday.

Yes, let's do it. Let's do this.

Well, thank you Haley so much.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Our podcast and our group. I'm excited to keep working with you more outside of the podcast, obviously. Yeah, thanks for just being here and clear, clarifying a few questions and encouraging people to get curious and ask more ways that chiropractic and other things can help their own healthcare journey.

Heck yeah. Any day, anytime, you just let me know. I love talking about this stuff.

I love it. And if you are in the Denver area and we're in Greenwood Village, then come out and get 9977 or you can find us@integrative healthinc.com just in case.

Brian, I think my our Internet connection just took a little blurb right there. A little pause right when you said come on out if you're in the Denver area. So just in case we missed it, repeat that for us.

You can find Dr. Haley, you can give us a call at 303-577-9977 and our website is Integrative I N T E G R A T I v e health inc.com and come out and get an adjustment. Say hi to everybody and we would love to. Love to see you.

Fantastic. All right, well everybody have a lovely Monday and get on with our day.

Thank you Dr. Haley. Thank you, Amy.

Thanks. Bye.

Thanks guys. Bye bye. Hey friends, thank you for tuning in to the all things good for your podcast. Please note, any information, experiences, ideas or opinions discussed today are for educational and thought provoking purposes only and not intended as medical advice. If anything piqued your curiosity, please consult with your doctor or personal medical professional. And if you're enjoying all things good for your podcast, hop on over and leave us a five star review so we can continue delving in and providing great content. Thanks again and we hope you are inspired to stay informed and responsible along your health and wellness journey.

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