Ep. 28 Skincare

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All right, we're gonna do a five, a four, a three, a two, and a one. Good morning, Amy. How are you?

Hi. Good morning, Brian. I'm fantastic. How are you?

Well, I'm doing great. I just got done getting my butt kicked with a really high intensity training and so I feel awesome. Super.

You got a workout in this morning.

Yes, it was a good one too. Oh, they killed me. And you know what's funny is I came upstairs after my workout because I had like 30 minutes to set up and my daughter had a birthday and so she had a bunch of friends stay up here and we have like a little carriage house and they gave her these gifts. And I was sitting here, picked up one of her gifts randomly, and it happens to be a jade cold stone roller. And I was sitting here, I was setting up, rubbing, like massaging my forehead under my eyes and stuff. And then I realized how funny it is that I just randomly did that because our podcast today is going to be over skin care and taking care of your skin and how good it is to take care of your skin. So. So I thought it was pretty funny that I just randomly was like massaging and massaging my face.

I love those jade rollers. They're amazing. And the gushaw. So how you say them?

Gua sha. Gua sha. But that's okay. Euro gyro, whatever. I think it's good. I think it's good.

It's like a.

That you rub your face with.

Yes. No, it feels good. But now it's like, I probably should have. I mean, there's probably six girls up here rubbing this on their face. I probably should have washed it. Rub it on my face. So we're having a special. Well, we're having a special guest on today that I literally got in a great conversation in regards to bacteria and the different bacteriums on your skin. So when we introduce her, I would like for her to elaborate on that. And then I might go wash my face real quick.

Well, let's ask her if we need it.

Good. That's a good point. Well, I'm excited for today's topic. It's something that, you know, I personally don't, you know, talk a lot about in relationship to my clients and stuff, and I think it's a very important, critical piece of. Of taking care of yourself. And as I turn 48, I've been doing a lot more, you know, with my. My skin care, but I was never really educated and have, like, my guy friends and stuff and us talk about skin care, because I think that there's some taboo st that I'd like to get into with that. But I would like to introduce an amazing human individual. She is a little powerhouse. She's super spicy, super smart, and super on top of it. Her name is Lizzie Ritter, and she's a licensed esthetician and just a really cool, cool person. So, Lizzy, welcome. Are you here with us?

Thank you, Brian. Sweet introduction. Yeah, I'm here.

Welcome to our fab, fabulous little podcast, Lizzie.

Great. Thank you.

Yeah. Did you want to roll with that, Brian?

I was gonna let you, but I'll jump on that for sure now. Lizzie really is. I had a great conversation with her the other day, and I'm super excited to have her discuss skin care. I feel like it's something, and again, maybe I'm wrong, so feel free to. To jump in with this. But I feel like, as a. As a man, it's certainly something that does not come up as a typical conversation in my friend groups or, you know, something that, you know as a teenager and evolving and growing older, that is just not something that's. That's in front of me. And so I know there's a lot of stuff out there, especially the question. Some questions I'd like to ask later to Lizzy, but I guess, Lizzie, if you could, like, just kick it in with a little bit about who you are, and then, you know, what is your perception of skin care and who's it good for and why and when would somebody utilize it and different types. We'll let you roll with it.

Yeah. We will circle back to the note that you just pointed to around masculinity and skin care or overall care in general. I think it's a really interesting and complex subject to kick us off, though. Let's just start with what aesthetics is. It's actually a word used to describe folks that are in the beauty industry that have a certificate in training. The root of the word means beauty practitioner.

Lovely.

Yeah.

That's interesting because it's a little bit of a Misnomer nowadays. It used to be spot on because we were really focused, the career was focused, the specialty was focused on beautifying. And while that is sometimes totally appropriate activity and lots of fun, there's so much more to it. Aesthetics has evolved greatly into becoming more of what our colleagues in Australia and Europe are calling skin therapy, which I actually love and resonate with so much more than beautician. That has to do a lot with how much it coincides with the work of acupuncture and other holistic wellness practices because it is about ensuring that you look a certain way, a beauty norm that society is pushing, but ensuring that your skin is functioning optimally, that you are achieving the highest level of wellness for your own particular set of needs and conditions. And so with that I can safely say that taking good care of the skin, which happens to be the largest organ that we have, the integumentary system.

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Is applicable to absolutely everybody, male, female, age, regardless. And it is something that we can incorporate as an intrinsic part of a wellness routine as important as massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, in that it is a deep practice, not superficial. Which is another misconception and really ties together with the benefits you'll see from incorporating these other modalities into your day to day. And I love the fact that it is so apparent and visible. So while aesthetics tends to be something that we think of as very superficial, you're going to see the best results by really working on your skin from its deepest level. And not the superficial, but the Benefit is it becomes the most visible aspect of your whole Persona. Your face is the way that you interact with the world. And so it's a wonderful confidence building to know that you're presenting that individual and specifically unique face that is your own in its most well and beautiful state.

I love it and I do love skin therapy. I feel like that resonates more with, with what I'm in line with too. And, and I actually love to hear that. So I'm going to be changing some brochures at the office for sure. And, you know, all Things Good for you is really a podcast that is to get people curious, to get people to be more engaged with their health and wellness at many different levels and certainly at the preventative level and how to kind of listen and know when they need what and what are the cues of their body. And so, you know, you brought up prevention too. And so I'm wondering, you know, from your perspective, some of the aspects of prevention and some of the little alarm signals that one can pay attention to when they might need to research or get some skin therapy.

Totally. So your skin is talking to you all the time. If you think about the way that we interact with the world, so much of it happens through the sensory inputs we have of our skin. I mean, touch is incredibly powerful with that. Some of the things that are happening at a more subtle level that won't be triggered with a sensory alert, so to speak. Is your skin's microbiome interacting with the world in that way? It is your first line of defense and barrier against a lot of environmental challenges that we, we face, including being in Colorado, high altitude, lots of intense sun, but also small microscopic, so sometimes not as trivial as all the different bacterium that were exposed to. So when you're thinking about your skin, it's really providing a protective and barrier function for everything that's underneath it, your entire body. That said, when it starts giving you signals that it is inflamed or irritated, we know that inflammation anywhere is inflammation everywhere. So it's a really great way to check in and say, ah, what is happening and how can I address it? There are ways to manage topically inflammation. And I would also highly recommend that you address the internals just as much as the external. In fact, we sometimes see a real gung ho nature towards applying lots of topicals to inflamed skin. By topicals, I mean lotions, creams, special cleansers and so forth. And that can actually exacerbate the issue. So another piece that I'd like to add to this is don't be adverse to a very, very simple skincare routine. It seems very complex. There's a billion dollar industry out there advertising multi step systems to take care of your face and incorporate all of these. Very exciting. And believe me, I'm a product person. I get super excited about these things. They get expensive and it is totally fine, especially when your skin is sending the signal that it's inflamed or irritated to have an incredibly simple skin care routine and in that way you're supporting it to get back to its homeostasis, its best balanced place. Your skin is incredibly intelligent and it knows exactly what it means. It will send you the signal that it has available to it to communicate with you and then guide you to exactly where you need to be with it.

Could I ask a quick question?

Yeah.

And Amy, jump. Amy, jump in on this. So some signs, some little alarms that my skin is begging for some skin therapy. Some attention would be like as a blackhead build up. A blackhead is, you know, besides inflammation, like some acne, what are some things I could look for to say, hey, pay attention now?

Yeah, Inflammation I would say would be your crop up of unwanted blackheads, acne breakout, any kind of rashes, dermatitis type of thing. But especially here in Colorado, we have such a slew of environmental factors. I see big ones for us here would be hydration, starting to feel that pinchy tightness in the skin where we're just not feeling like enough moisture is available. Even if we were to constantly be applying it to our faces, it's a big deal here as well as I would say as sun exposure. So seeing a lot of pigmentation crop up, that is your skin protective way of saying, oh, a lot's happening here. I'm going to throw to the surface the melanin to make sure I'm protecting what's going on underneath the skin. Little tiny fissures, little tiny wounds are often protected by bursts of melanin that your skin creates. So when you're thinking about any kind of wounds, you want to go in and help heal and relieve that. So here in Colorado, dryness would be a factor. I would keep an eye out and that has to do with dehydration especially, especially here, not necessarily a dry skin type. And then also looking for cues that you've maybe overdone in the sense.

I love it. Amy, are you looking at yourself in the mirror right now? Like I am. I'm looking at my eyes. I'm like.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

What's it telling us today? No, I think obviously in Colorado we have the dryness, but anywhere you're at like I grew up in Texas and the humidity was an issue. If you're at the beach, the wind and the sun exposure is an issue. So there's certainly something in every environment that you've got to kind of pay attention to. And I appreciate like the idea of, okay, what's happening from the outside affecting our skin. But like Lizzie said, it's a lot to do with search from the inside out. Right. I think. Lizzie, do you ever get into like the emotional content and how that works with people, like just stress in general and how that affects the skin?

Yes, I love that component of it. And to just pop ourselves up to a little bit of a 20,000 foot view here. Beauty and skincare becomes incredibly complex and tender in that we are given not just the stresses of our daily lives, but also the stress of a pretty intensive media bombardment around what the standard is culturally, what we should look like and how we have a million ways to compare ourselves to that standard that can actually cause. And I see this with our clients a lot, just so much baggage and stress and pressure on top of whatever they're managing in their lives.

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Either I see it in a couple of ways. Either I, I don't know where to start because I'm so far behind. I don't know how on earth I'm ever going to look like the standard that I see out there, which is a question of representation basically, or the. I am really far along and invested in this journey. I have put money, time, energy and belief into getting myself to this standard. And I am here in a. I can't ever seem to arrive at that destination. So to complicate your question, Amy. Yes. Daily stress, lack of sleep, job pressures, family pressures. All of those things will show up handily on your face in the form of under eye bag. Those pesky 11 in the middle of your forehead are. Every time we have a worry. And there's a lot of muscle memory involved in that, too. So, you know, the muscles of your face are incredibly responsive to your moods and emotions. Makes sense, because that is the way we communicate our moods and emotions is a lot of the time through the expressions of our face. Although masks have made that very. The whole mask culture for the last couple years has changed that somewhat. That's a different topic, too.

Yeah, that's a good one. I wonder how many people. You know, I know just to segue into that very quickly. Like, a lot of people went through significant skin issues wearing masks and the hot air and breathing and then having something rubbing and I think the oils that just got trapped in people's skin.

I don't know.

A number of people had rashes and acne that didn't normally have that from the masks.

We called it maskne because it's so like that perfect little beard of inflammation, exactly the same shape as a mask. The other thing we found that was really interesting, and by we, I mean kind of the aesthetics community, was a huge uptick in how we present our eyes and eyebrows. So there's a lot of work being done on those parts of our face that were still visible and then double down on. Okay, this is the only part that's visible, so it needs to now take on the weight of the rest of my covered face and expressing everything that I'm trying to express here. I saw it a lot, actually, in my little preschooler. She's so tuned into eyes and forehead versus the whole face because of that coverage. And we depend so greatly on taking those cues from the face to really get a good sense of what's going on in a conversation. Communicating.

Yeah, I didn't think about. I didn't think about that being such a big, like you said, uptick in the importance of eyebrows. I mean, it has become really popular topic, so I wonder how much of that was contributed to the mask. That's interesting.

Yeah, it's really interesting.

You know, just. Sorry, Go ahead, Amy.

I was like, I never did the skinny eyebrow thing, and so I'm kind of happy that the big eyebrows are coming back.

Oh, love.

Amazing.

Yeah, regrow those. And if you're a victim of the 90s trend of tiny pencil eyebrows, then, yeah, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing now, I guess.

A one win for me that I was not fashionable in that way.

Just to tie something in real quick to the emotional stuff and the feelings and inside out too, you know, for thousands of years, ayurvedic medicine, traditional Chinese medicine and many others have used facial diagnosis as far as skin tone, skin color, areas of the face markings, wrinkles, all of that, to associate and to be able to kind of diagnose and differentiate what's going on inside the body. So just pretty amazing. And then the skin is a huge part of what we call the Wei Qi in Chinese medicine, which is your defense system. And the skin has two organs that's associated to the lung and large intestine, which is just always interesting looking at like gut health and how it affects the skin. And so, you know, the more, the better all that is, the better your weight. She is. But I kind of want to. I'm curious about reverse engineering that question. You know, we think about taking care of the inside to help the Wei Qi, you know, that skin barrier layer. But I wonder by taking care of the skin on how much that actually affects and improves the Wei Qi as well. That was two big things. Two big things. I know, but I had to get them out of my head.

The wings of this bird there. I feel like there is. So while the skin is a manifestation of what is going on internally made visible, there is that reverse engineering that we can do of how do we apply or mechanically stimulate the skin from the outside to then trigger a response from internally. And Brian, one of the things that I love about the radio frequency technology that we have at the laser the clinic is that there are these ways to make an external mechanism or topical really trigger support and stimulate your own skin and the resources that it has available to it. Similar to just a very, very light touch on acupuncture that you are working with your body's own energy and resources. There are these really cool ways to ask gently the skin to remember a prior shape, to stimulate production of collagen and elastin, to produce those sweet little baby skin cells that will then emerge at the surface more vibrant and healthy than they were in a prior iteration. And there's so much of a tie in there.

Yeah, that's cool.

So we can think about it like in skin therapy. It's also possibly I'm going to do some. I'm going to dig into this because there are like dry brushing and some other things that people do to help their immune system utilizing the skin as a mechanism. But we could potentially be seeing a trickle down effect into helping our immune system and helping you know, things from the inside out that way too. Which is pretty freaking awesome.

Well, you had mentioned the bacteria right? Like there's how many different types of bacteria on our face and how many supposed to be there.

So that is, this is an emerging field, the study of the microbiome overall but then specifically the microbiome of the face. And what I'll demarcate here is that there is this sort of a yoke that is your decolletage and up stopping at your scalp line wherever your hairline grows which I'm considering the skin of the face. And that particular zone has its own, own unique. You will not find it in anywhere else on your body. Particular set of bacteriums when they're well balanced that creates this perfect little barrier function and that is it runs acidic. So you want to make sure that when you're thinking about your, your skincare and your products that you're not tampering with the PH there because that PH is vital to ensuring that these bacterium that are naturally present and then we're exposed to in the world or imbalance. So there's this, isn't it? I mean it's just, it's a. It's a whole study within itself. The way that, that this particular area of our body had specialized itself and made it incredibly unique. In particular receptive to certain things that won't be receptive to the rest of your body. Sensitive to certain things that the rest of your body will not have sensitivities to. It's so interesting.

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And there is the presence of the acne bacteria P. Acnes bacteria that is absolutely a cause of inflammation and can be managed. Excellent.

Okay. What do you know what the PH of the face like? Because we think about the PH of the body wanting to be more alkaline for health. But I've heard sometimes the skin, is it more acidic or is this skin like more alkalinity too in its ph? I don't need an exact number, but do you know what that might look like?

It's a four and a half to five and a half acidic level.

Okay, so it does like more acidic.

Okay, absolutely. And so when you're thinking about other ways to manage through some topicals, the PH is critical there. If you are not ascertaining the PH of your product, there is the likelihood that it will either burn because it's too acidic, or it will try to pull that skin barrier over to an alkaline state or more neutral state, which is not the right thing for the skin will throw it off as well. And then you get into a whole area of permeability. You get this awesome vitamin C serum. It costs a pretty penny. And if it's not properly balanced with ph and then it's molecular weight, it's not going to absorb at all. So there are some complexities when it comes to. And it's just like we were talking about before, what your skin will actually receive on your face versus other parts of your body be sensitive to or really be hungry for too. There are some wonderful things that the skin is incred. Receptive to that stimulates its own little generators of the same entity within it that are really good for the skin.

So, Lizzie, is that why, like, I was never a big fan of toners, you know, you always had to do the, like the whole skin care kit and they always wanted you to do the cleanse and the toner and then the moisturizer and the protective layer and that which I can. I really am a lazy skin care person. I don't like doing all the steps. So if I made a mistake by not including the toner, is that what it does is reset your PH level?

It was such a good question. And it's divisive. Okay. I have teachers at my school that were creators of their own toners and those were lovely. And then others that were like, it's a useless step. Why are we even doing this? So on the toner front, you can or you can't, it's not going to make or break. But what I would recommend is thinking of skin care as if you can just a gentle shift of perspective to a moment of connecting with yourself of Caring for yourself and tending versus a chore. So a couple things on that is if you're, if you're a low maintenance skincare person and you're not just waking up and to engage in a routine, which I am not that person. I have gotten a lot more, a lot more engaged in it. But I'm frankly, once a day I can engage with that. I got a lot of other things going on. If you're going to do skin care routine for yourself, I would recommend at the end of the day, especially if you only have an opportunity once a day to take care of it, twice is fine. You can get overzealous and start stripping your skin. So if you need to just simplify, go with once at the end of the day. One of my esthetician friends was if for no other reason than remind yourself how many fart clouds you probably walked through and then you'll really be motivated to wash your face at the end of the day.

Did you say how many fart clouds?

You think about it, then you get motivated. But it is a wonderful, the night skincare routine is a great time to know that you have this whole resting period to absorb, regain some moisture. We lose a lot of moisture during the day with our skin and the night is a great opportunity to occlude some of that and try to lessen it and to have a very sweet moment of self care as well. Placing hands on the face can be an incredibly intimate thing. If you've ever done it to someone else but your child or partner, you know how sweet and tender it can be. And applying that gentle touch to your own face is incredibly healing emotionally. The skin also loves it skin is incredibly responsive to touch. It loves massage, clean touch. Brian. So like you were thinking with your little jade.

Wait, wait, why'd you point, why'd you point me out when you said clean touch.

Under it?

Well, now I know why guys don't talk about this stuff too much because it's exhausting. It's a lot work. We're way too lazy, too lazy to do all this stuff.

Talk about this with men in particular. I am fairly passionate about men advocating care for themselves. It's a really boring time for men as far as society is concerned with what's allowable and to still be viewed as masculine. And I think there's a lot of myth busting to be done there, or fact checking rather. Is that actually true that men should have less allowance to engage in a skincare routine? That's a question. Why would it be Sort of less appropriate for men to have a nighttime routine that is settling to the nervous system, is caring to their visage, and is actually relaxing as a way to get into a good sleep zone. To me, it's a. That's an artificial barrier, right? That. This is a. We have a lot of guardrails around masculinity that don't allow the same kind of care, especially to the visage. The faith that we have for women, and in a really extreme sense, we actually pressure women to engage in. And with men, we don't have that. So if you want, let's talk about how you manage. What is your routine and what kind of questions do you have about how that engages with your bros and the things that you all talk about.

Yeah, no, I mean, I will say that I think you're right. There's been a cultural, you know, issue going on around this for men. Because, you know, I think to, you know, in one aspect, it's, if you do this, you're not masculine. Plus, men have this, like, I'm tough. I don't need to be taken care of. So even, like when people come into our office for massage, a lot of times it's their wife's that schedule the appointment and. And make that. Make them come in because they're tired of hearing them complain about their pain, right? And then a lot of times they'll try it, like, you know, one time or whatever, and they're like, it didn't fix me. You know, I'm a man. I can work my way through this. So there does tend to be that stuff. But I would also just say it's just because a lot of guys haven't tried it, like, for myself, I love petting cures. Love them, love massage, love them. I have. I always laugh at people. I'm like, you know, not laugh at people. I shouldn't say that. But if you had don't receive some of these things and you've never tried it, first of all, don't knock it until you've tried it. But second of all, you're missing out on some amazing stuff. Like, it feels good to have somebody take care of you, like to get a facial. And for me, it's like cleansing feeling. And I feel more vibrant and I feel refreshing, refreshed. And I feel a sense of recharging and renewal. Even for the pedicure, there's just something. I walk out and just feel better. And so, you know, I love doing all that. I recently just got a little bit more into my nightly Skincare routine. As far as washing my face and a little bit better at night and putting a facial lotion on to help hydrate my skin better. And even though it's really increased my personal nightly routine, I love it. It's become now a staple and really, you know, just makes me feel good. So I'm all about it.

Okay, great plug. And I would say that directionally speaking, you are an aspirational standard for that. And for any men out there that are thinking that just to show for the ladies, I would encourage some thoughtfulness around how there is a lot of power dynamic within beauty as an industry and beauty as a concept that is interesting to play around with. And I think that dynamic around masculinity is especially interesting. And to engage with beauty as a man complicates masculinity in this really rich and interesting way. So if for nothing else, you know, play around with it as an intellectual activity even if you're not ready to commit to it.

Like changing our approach to skincare being just about beauty. I mean, obviously, since it's been such a women focused topic for so long, it's really, if we can switch it towards being more healthy and the competence. Right. And just caring what you give, what you take care of yourself. Like one of my goals this year. I am. I'm really good at keeping my house clean. And my aesthetics in my house is nice, but my car is a disaster all the time. Mostly because my lifestyle is like, I'm in the mountains, I'm camping, I'm skiing, I've got the dog in and out of the dog park and. But I, you know, for me, it's like, I just like, I need. I. I would like to step up my game a little bit on how I take care of my vehicle because it's an expression and it feels good to be in a clean car. So if we could take. And it just seems like it's like a response, reflection of who I am as a human being. But you can take that into that with your skin as well. It's not just about being pretty, it's about being healthy. And I think even a. And I could be wrong. Maybe it's just an aging or Colorado thing. I think women are moving more towards less makeup and even makeup that we are wearing being very discreet or more enhancing rather than entirely changing. I guess maybe I'm wrong. I mean, there is whole contour world going on like crazy out there. But reminds me of the lady who says like shape shifting that women can shapeshift. Don't tell the men that we can shapeshift. But my point being, I think if we can shift over to it being about being healthy more than pretty, maybe, maybe more men would feel confident and comfortable talking about skincare.

When you say the word confidence, first of all, I would say that for me doing some of that stuff, I maybe I wasn't very confident originally going in and felt a little weird about it or whatever, but now I feel very confident in receiving services like that. And also I think it makes you feel more confident afterwards, right? Especially when, when you're doing stuff on the face because it's how we present and how, you know, we show up as, you know, part of, part of that package anyway. Certainly not all of it. But you know, I think confidence is a huge, huge piece to that.

And how you care for your faith may be a reflection of how you do business or how you, you know, take care of your relationships. I mean, it's like you said, self care. It's how, you know, you care for yourself would probably be reflective on how you're going to, to care for other things in your life.

Yeah, good point. Good point. Lizzy, a couple questions in regards, if you don't mind, I'm going to back it out here to a little something not as deep, but there's certain things. First of all, like you said, there's a billion dollar industry and what you should and shouldn't use and all that stuff. But one for me is sunscreen. And I know that this is kind of different, but like for sunscreen obviously is important, but there's some confusion because then it's like, well, is there something in sunscreens that cause cancer? And then you have your vitamin D absorption and you don't want to block from vitamin D. So a question I guess would be how much sunscreen should we really be using? Like, is there a balance if you're out in the sun for some certain amount of time that you need it, or do you have some better guidelines on product and time usage and what that looks like?

Absolutely. And let's all perk up because in Colorado it is completely indiscriminate. The sun shines down on us the minute you're outside and it won't. It doesn't treat any of us separately or different. So none of us are exempt from needing to think about this environmental factor. So there is a big swing in dermatology and within the aesthetics community to be very anti sun. I saw a funny ad in, I considered it funny in my dermatologist office that said the best tan is your natural skin tone. And it had this very pale little person frolicking on the beach there as the picture. And I think that this is, and it is a very far side of the spectrum of how to take care of your skin when you have sun exposure, as we all do the second we step out of the house and even when we are inside of any kind of environment with glass windows, with exposure to the house, think driving your car. That said, we all need to think about sunscreen. We need to remember that the sun is our friend. An aggressive friend, a very aggressive friend, but still a friend. And so manage the friendship. Be outside. We're in an incredibly beautiful place in the world. We are blessed with so many sunshiny days and there are huge benefits not only to modulating circadian rhythms, to prompting the production of vitamin D that we can actually absorb and so forth and so on. There are so many benefits to being in the sun and we want to also ensure that we are not being overly exposed. It's a balance like with all things. If we can remember anything. Take this away. When you're looking at a sunscreen, whether it's a chemical sunscreen or a physical sunscreen, there's always going to be a number on the front. 15, 25, up to 50, sometimes they're greater, but let's say that's the regular zone. That number is only an indicator of how long the product will work and it's a reflection of minutes. So if you see a 50, it doesn't mean it's more powerful, it means it lasts for 50 minutes.

I didn't know that. I totally did not know that.

Right.

Are you being for real?

So when you've got your little like combined two step moisturizer and sunscreen, that's like a 15 that gets. That buys you 15 minutes of protection from the sun. That's it. So basically, if we think about it in that way, it is also incredibly impractical to apply enough sunscreen for a day outside to get yourself the appropriate coverage because of the minutes in general, you need to apply sunscreen 20 minutes before going out in the sun and then continually reapply while you are in the sun, depending on that number on the front of the package of whatever sunscreen you're using. So if you're going to go be outside and you're applying a 50 sunscreen, you apply it 20 minutes before you go out, you actually have only 30 minutes left over to be in the sun and know you're getting optimal protective coverage. So when you're thinking about sunscreen, keep that in mind to give yourself an idea of how often you need to apply, especially if you're doing a super outdoorsy kind of day. And then it also will help explain why we still get sunspots on our hands and the driver's side of our face when we're in the car. Because generally speaking, whatever sunscreen we've applied in the morning is well done with its efficacy by midday or afternoon.

Well, it sounds like we have boating coming up. It sounds like there's going to be a lot more application of sunscreen and massaging each other, which my kids hate. When I'm turn around, give me your back.

Friendly balance of get a little sunshine, get your skin to a place where it can tolerate and be okay with some sun exposure. Otherwise, you will be on that wheel of constant reapplication. And if we want to, we can talk about a chemical versus a physical sunscreen. But you tell me what the appetite is for that.

Well, again, I think one of the things I've always. And I so like Rewind 10 years ago where I'm spraying this stuff on my kids and, you know, like, you cough when you accidentally get some in. I'm like, this just doesn't seem safe. It seems like, am I giving my kids kids cancer by putting this on? You know, and then sure enough, you know what, A couple years ago, they pulled a bunch or even last year they pulled a bunch that there's some chemical in there that is carcinogenic or whatever. And I'm like, oh, damn it. I knew what? I should have listened. So, you know, there's a little bit of a. I mean, trust me, I still put banana boat on them like crazy. But not to plug banana boat, but. But it is like that. It's like, what's healthy, what's not healthy, you know, out there. And it's just there's a trust. And maybe you don't even know that answer because it's such a big question when it comes to chemical compounds, you know.

Yeah, I have a preference. If you can do a physical sunscreen, which zinc oxide is the active ingredient in a physical sunscreen that is a physical barrier. So instead of a topical chemical compound that can absorb into your skin and have potential impact, much like the ones we're seeing in the news of it potentially being carcinogenic or having the risk of that, zinc oxide is absolutely something that remains on the surface of your skin and creates an actual physical barrier between your Skin and the rays of the sun. Now, with all of the hype around how some of these sunscreens have been dirty business for a while, there are some incredible new innovations coming through with clean chemical sunscreens. The nice thing that a chemical sunscreen can offer us is a little bit longer protection. Generally speaking, physical sunscreen, I mean, if you wipe it off, that barrier is gone. Chemical sunscreen, it has a cling ability, if that's a word that is incredibly helpful, especially if you're doing things like water sports or anything super active outside where you have the likelihood of it getting washed off or removed somehow. I am going to do just a teeny plug. Supergoop is the current one that I'm using on my kids. It's a 50 chemical sunscreen. I have a lot of excitement for where the industry will take this. And I am sure we're going to have a real innovative era of great sunscreens that actually work that will not have those bummer side effects. There's a renaissance around it coming up. So everybody, experiment, play around, make sure if you're doing a chemical sunscreen that it's got a clean list of ingredients and then, you know, your zinc oxide is a great one for physical barrier protection.

Super goop for your kids. Is that what you said?

Super goop for the kids. They've got an everyday lotion. It's the SPF 50. I have two kiddos, one that is really, really pale skin tone and the other that has a more medium to dark tone skin tone. Works great on both of them. No white streakiness. And I keep a pretty tight eye on how their skin responds to the sun. So I'm real into it and I know that other companies are going to be creating nice clean formulas for us too, especially with everything that just came across in recent news.

I'm glad you said that.

You're good.

I'm just glad you said that because I just didn't want to revert back to wearing a swim shirt and one of those big hats.

Oh, the sun is our friend. There's so many benefits to it. We just, I mean, it's Colorado. We've got a high altitude sun and a lot of it, so, you know, striking the balance for sure.

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Hey Lizzie, if you as an esthetician could only like pack one or two things, let's just skip the sunscreen because we know that'll be in the list for everybody probably what are, what are like your must have products if you were going to just be able to carry like one or two things.

So that is an excellent question and I love it in particular because it points towards simplicity and opting out of a culturally approved, multi system, expensive product line situation. I love product and I really believe our skin is already well enough and smart enough to be able to take care of itself incredibly well with minimal nudging and support. So a simple skincare routine is as beneficial oftentimes as a very complex one if you're choosing the right simple routine. For me in Colorado especially, seeing our skin have a very consistent general theme of dehydration. The product that I use, and I'm standing by it, is an oil cleanser. It works, yes, every skin type in that when you cleanse with oil, attracts oil, it encapsulates dirt, excessive oil on your own face, any little particulates that are at the surface, but it doesn't disrupt that critical microbiome or barrier function of the skin. So you cleanse with oil and you'll never have that weird scrunchy, tight feeling that you will with a foaming soap cleanser. Sometimes whenever you have that tight feeling, you know you've disrupted your, your barrier function.

So you're saying use like avocado oil on my face, like massage that in. Is that we're talking about oil cleanser? What's happening?

But the one that I am currently using has a delicious combination of jojoba oil, sunflower oil, and I think there's a little bit of macadamia in that oil in there. So the idea is that you're massaging your face, you're lifting up those particulates that you don't want there without disrupting that critical barrier that is your own homegrown microbiome you want to be picky about the oils that you use because certainly some oils can be comedogenic, which means that they will prompt pores to clog and you'll get blackheads or whiteheads. So you want to be real precise about the oil that you're using. But it is a brilliant one step cleanser. Oftentimes they're infused with certain botanicals. The one that I'm using right now has vetiver in it and so it's incredibly grounding. You do a couple deep inhalations before you start washing your face with it. And so you're getting kind of a dual action from it. You're feeling soothed and relieved. You're cleaning your face. And the light.

We'Re cutting out there. Hang on one second. Are you back with us? Lizzie?

Yeah. Can you hear me? There was a little windy moment.

Yes.

Yeah. And so the last thing on oil cleansers is they are not stripping and they're moisturizing, which is so good for our poor, tired, dry skin here in Colorado. Dehydrated skin here in Colorado. So that would be my one thing. I'm going to do you one better, Amy. I don't need two products, I just need the one. Plus sunscreen and you can keep it as simple as that. A nice oil cleanser.

What about anti aging products? Because I know there's a lot of stuff, as we've mentioned, it's a very money driven environment, I guess, but business, what, what do you think for anti aging processes? Like a lot of stuff doesn't absorb through your skin. What are, what are people's biggest bang for their buck?

I think the biggest bang for the buck I'll get to an actual product is a mindset shift. Frankly, I am very pro aging. If we think about the altar alternative to not aging, it's death that we're all aging. It's another moment to be excited to be alive. Aging is such a gift to be considering the alternative. And it brings back a little bit to the topic of to do skin care. And skin wellness is really not to be focused on prettiness. Prettiness is usually a very unconfrontational, fairly bland, inoffensive and forgettable measure. And what I'm hoping folks can do is look for that radiant beauty rather than prettiness. And if that means having the courage to embrace the signs of aging that you have accrued during your life, then that mindset change will transform the way you look about why you're choosing the products that you're choosing and what you're hoping they will accomplish for you.

I think the term is now switching from. Oh, what did somebody say just recently? I thought it was really clever. It was an anti aging. I think forgetting the. It totally just slipped my mind. But it was very clever. Essentially just meaning that we're not trying to not age, we're just aging well again, healthy and continuing to just love ourselves through whatever process, but doing it in a way that is respectful of our body's process and not in a shaming, desperate, clinging to youth mentality. Yeah. However, but you know, with that it's like there are some people who, who tend to just age more gracefully or. And then, you know, some people have a harder time with it for whatever reason, whether it's the way that they're choosing to eat, the environment that they live in, the stress that they're in. If they're smokers, you know, just genetically maybe predisposed to having earlier breakdown of their collagen system, they may want to slow that down or reverse it. So I don't want to feel bad about using products that will re enhance my skin if it's losing some of the things that keep it young. But like you said not to be obsessed. Like we don't want to, we don't want to be the people without the face at most.

So here's the thing. We each have agency over this. And while some folks might not want to touch their skin or ever do anything with it, I love that. And other folks are really intensely engaged with it and get to do and choose whatever it is that suits and fits them. And I love that. So you're going to see a whole range of activity and engagement and this is your own to choose and have agency over. So my advocacy is for only listening to yourself and what you want and need, whatever that happens to be. With that said, if you are in the place of, you know, I would love to see a little bit more of, of the face I recognized 10 years ago, which is a very common thing to realize in your 40s. Like wow, things do look different. It sneaks up on you. Then I would say one of the best. And this has clinical trials out beyond number to prove its efficacy is to start incorporating a retinol into your care system. Retinol is a vitamin A based product that is a super stimulator. Think of it as like your hype girl for skin that gets in there and is like, yeah, let's make more collagen, let's do elastin let's get our skin cell turnover just into hyperdrive but it's still your own skin doing the hyperdrive. It's just got it kind of a fan that's super excited and stimulating that and you can achieve really gorgeous, way more supple, even skin toned skin. Really starting it at any age it's more effective if you start a little bit earlier but you can really see some tremendous results. There's lots of clinical data to back up how effective it is and it is just a one step product. If you want to go big, get your dermatologist to prescribe you with a retinol that has a higher percentage. There are also plenty of over the counters and it can cause some sensitivity. So start slow, make sure you're monitoring for redness and dryness and then incorporate it and see. Give yourself a good 90 days to start seeing just how transformative it is for your skin in that your skin will remember what it was doing a while ago and kind of repeat results at the age that you are currently.

So maybe the best way. Yeah just is to get in and get to work with a good esthetician or dermatologist and see what's out there that's going to work with your skin and with what you're desires are. But most importantly just taking care of yourself inside and out. Right. So hydrating and some really nice simple clean cleanses like you said, an oil cleanser the end of the night probably one of the best things you could do for yourself.

Yeah. I love the different perspectives that you we tapped into today too. I think that the mindset stuff and again how we feel and the inside out and all that is amazing and I'm glad we covered a lot of territory today. And you know I would love to thank our skin therapist. See I use the new term for you Lizzie, esthetician for I think that you brought a lot of great insight but the way you brought it was magical too. So I appreciate you so thank you.

I'm so happy to have been part of this today. Amy and Brian, thank you for inviting me.

You're welcome. Thank you. And Lizzy, I know that you if somebody wanted to ask you more questions or reach out for an evaluation, why don't you tell the folks where all they can find you?

Well, for our lasering services I am available at Integrative Health so you can reach out and find me there. And then for anything else, my own private practice is not quite launched yet but I would be happy to consult via email or text. My email is bonplumb holistic wellnessmail and then my number is 970-749-8552 which is my business line for responding to texts or calls if that is easier. Happy to discuss with anybody that has further questions via both of those.

Awesome. Well thank you so much and Amy, thank you for being available today and I'm glad I was on this one since you heckled me on the last one. I'm not going to miss another one. Again.

We're glad you made it to this one. We're glad the teenagers let you out of the closet.

Yes, totally. And thank you to all the listeners. I think today was extra enjoyable podcast that is again something I feel like we need to talk more about. So I'm glad we breached this conversation. And again thank you Lizzy so much. Feel free. Pass this podcast on to as many people that you know. Help educate. Help people get involved in their own health and wellness and get them curious to explore everything that is out there that is amazing for your health today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone.

Thanks Brian. Thanks Lizzy.

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