Badass Marketing with Bruce Irving

Hey, welcome to today's show. My guest today needs no or very little introduction. He's been a regular on my show. Bruce Irving, Smart pizza marketing. Bruce, how are you today?

Donald Burns.

Thank you so much.

I am fantastic. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you having me join you on your podcast again.

It's always great to have you on the podcast.

It's always great to be on your podcast.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love being on your show too.

Yeah, yeah.

You're. You're. You've got some really cool stuff. Let's kind of get. Before we get into some of the questions. I mean, you got some really cool stuff that you're working on. You got a magazine coming out. Yes.

We're doing a digital magazine.

That's so badass. Yeah.

I think I've always wanted to do.

A digital magazine, but as you know, I'm not the best writer. But I've curated some great writers like yourself, some friends that I've built up some relationship with over the years. And I said, you know what? I want to put together a magazine. Digital. Not print, but digital. That's easy to read. And, like, people can read and get information. And even if you're not in the pizza industry, you can go check it out and, you know, read some articles from some great minds in the business.

And learn how to get better help.

Or figure out marketing or hear great stories. Because I've realized that as much as I don't love to read and I am a big audio guy, there's a lot of folks out there who do like to read.

That's true. Yeah, I know. I've been getting lots of pressure to record my books finally on audio.

Oh, you should do that 100%.

But, you know, it's hard to find a studio right now because everybody's like, shut down.

Can you just do it right out.

Of your house like you're doing it right now?

Yeah. I don't know if the quality would be good enough.

I think done's better than perfect, though, isn't it?

That's true. Yeah. Well, you know how I am. I'm a little. I'm a little bit on the perfection side. But you know what? I'm gonna take your advice. I'm gonna. I'm gonna order some stuff, do one.

Chapter, and then send it to somebody and see if it's good enough. And then, you know, before you do the whole book.

That's a good idea. That's a great idea.

I think you have a great voice. I think Your audio is coming through great. I think you reading the book will add a different dynamic to it because you can put emphasis on certain things that you want to emphasize. And like, sometimes when you do an audiobook, you get to ad lib. Right. And add things.

I love it. Yeah. I love it when authors go off script. Yeah.

An extra feature.

Yeah, I love that stuff. Yeah. So, hey, before we get going also too, I want to say a quick shout out to our sponsor for the show. If you're looking for a badass POS system, then go. It really complements your badass restaurant. Go check out my friends over at upserve@upserve.com so. Excellent. Yeah. So the magazine. When's the magazine launching?

The magazine is launching.

Just fix my audio here. Sorry. The magazine is launching end of October. Beginning of November.

End of October, beginning. All right, awesome.

So that's perfect.

Just in time. Time for the holidays for that. Just in time for the holidays.

Yeah.

It's gonna be a.

It's not gonna be every month. It's gonna be every other month. So we're gonna do six issues a year. That's the goal. I'm committed to a year. I'm committed to one year. See how it goes, see if people enjoy it, see if I enjoy doing it. And if, if all goes well, it'll be something that we continue on.

Very cool. That's gonna be awesome. I'm looking forward to it. And I'm also looking forward to contributing. So. Yeah, I know your team's reached out to me and I said, hey, whatever you need, I'm in.

Yeah, I love it. It's gonna be a great Rudy. Mick's gonna be writing an article. I think we have some interesting interviews with some well known restaurant tours in the business as well. So it's gonna be. The first issue is going to be pretty good.

Oh, very cool. You know, the problem is there's always that first issue, then you got to keep it going, you know?

Yeah. I mean, you know what, though? I've done the podcast and, you know, this, like, doing the podcast. I have two podcasts now, so.

Yeah.

Lining up guests and interviewing and emailing people and kind of organizing that I've done for quite a while now. So that's not as hard for. For me as it may be for someone who's like, just starting out.

Right. That's true. That's true.

Like 505 million people on the podcast. So I have a lot of people I could reach out to and ask for favors.

How many people do you have on a podcast now?

Well, we've done. I've done. We've done 300 episodes of the SPM show. I probably did 150 live shows, and then I have 20 or 35 episodes of the local business podcast that we've done. So we've done quite a bit of podcast five, maybe.

That's a crazy.

Yeah.

You're still doing live every day, right?

Yeah. Monday, Wednesday. To do it Monday, Wednesday, Friday. But, you know, sometimes life and business gets in the way. But I'm trying to. As long as I have something, this is my goal. I want to be not boring, and I want to make sure that I have something good to say and something that's going to help the audience in 10 or 15 minutes. So if I have something that I want to share that I think is valuable to people listening, then I go live. If I don't, I don't. I don't want to waste anybody's time with crap.

Very cool. You know. You know, COVID 19, is really shaken up our industry, just down to its core. What is your view right now of the industry?

As you can see, it's, you know, obviously, Covid's horrible. Right. And a lot of people have been affected, and it's in. It's, you know, done a lot of bad things to our economy. But if you can look at the bright side of this horrific thing, I think that it's made people do things in their business that maybe they've always wanted to do but never really pulled the trigger, and then this has made them have to pull the trigger, like adding online ordering or doing takeout or diversifying the way that you make money in your business. So I think it's an opportunity. And I feel like those businesses that are closed or have closed forever, if you really dig deep into those businesses that have closed forever, they're businesses that have been around for 30 years, and maybe they were going to close eventually, sooner than later.

Anyway.

This just kind of made it faster.

Yeah, I. I have the same kind of philosophy. If you were running a bad business, this kind of just escalated your closing. I mean, if you were just limping along.

Yeah.

Struggling. This just kind of, like, put the nail in the coffin for a lot of places. Yeah.

And it teaches you something. It teaches you. And this is a lesson that I've really learned talking to a lot of folks, is that moving forward, we know whatever the new normal looks like, I really think you should make sure that whatever business you have, you have multiple streams of income and you're not solely dependent on your dining room being full in order to make money. And if that goes away, then you're screwed.

Yeah, no, that's the truth. I've had restaurants or clients of mine that have pivoted and they're actually, I mean, believe it or not, they're up over last year even without in, in room dining.

That's crazy. That's great though.

Crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean, like, that's like. I think this is the cut from a consumer's perspective. I think this is solidified the fact that people are ready to order online, ready to get takeout and eat at restaurants in their own home. You know, obviously the younger generation of folks were already kind of comfortable doing that. It's the people who were 30 plus that were kind of on the fence, but now I think they're totally on board and they're used to ordering online, going to pick it up hands free, curbside, or getting it delivered and dropped off at their house. And they're totally fine with that now.

That's true. That's so true. So, you know, being able to pivot and change your concept is paramount. And we, and I know we've talked about this before. What are some ways, though, you've been recommending to your clients, your marketing clients, how should they shift their marketing programs?

Listen, it's always been the same communication. You're communicating to your, your customers about what you do and how you do it. The shift has just become, you have to do that faster and more frequently. And how do you do that? You go digital. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, email, your website. People want information. And what this has taught those folks who were hesitant to get on the digital bandwagon was that if you want to get a message to your customers quick, you need to be on social media and you need to be online because the world moves fast. And if you want to get information into your customer's hands fast, you need to have a platform that people are used to going to, to check out that information for you. So it's not so much that we've changed what we've said, we've just doubled down on what we've been saying for the last four years. And by we, I mean me, right? Get on social media, make sure you have an updated platform, make sure you're communicating with your customers as frequently as you possibly can, and build a following. And don't be boring. Be yourself. If you're weird, be weird. If you're awkward, be awkward. Just be who you Are.

I love that. That's one of the biggest things I get away from. Your, your kind of message that you say is just don't be boring.

Yeah, be yourself. There's so many businesses, and I just put this out there today, and I don't know why it may. What made me think of this today, maybe because I was trying to look for a local place around me that I wanted to kind of go check out, and they're all the same. And I'm like, why, why does everybody try to be like everybody else instead of being like what the. The business is that they actually want to be.

Exactly.

You know, like, if you're a business owner, don't look at your competition that's in your area. Like, look at outside your industry and see what those people are doing to grow their businesses and maybe incorporate that into your personality or use that to get ideas versus trying to please everybody. Because when you please everybody, you end up really not pleasing everybody. Anybody.

Oh, exactly. Yeah. No, it's. You got to stand out. Yeah. Stand out. Everyone wants to blend in. I hate that. It's like the most boring thing in the world.

I think what happens is business owners don't want to turn anybody away. Every, every potential warm body is a potential customer and a potential. Which is fine, but that's not going to get you to really grow. You don't grow by being like everybody else. You grow by being yourself and you being unique and bringing a unique entree or atmosphere or perspective to the restaurant world.

And it may not.

And it's slower growth than being like everybody else. But in the long run, if you're in it for the long run, that's how you grow the most.

Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

You got to stand out, man. Stand out. Or you fit in.

Yeah. Like you're going to be like everybody else.

Then.

Then all people do is choose you based on price.

Yeah. And then your commodity. And then commodity always goes to the lowest price.

Yeah, 100.

100, always. That's why the best way the big, the big national chainsaways have problems because they kind of blend in, and then all they're doing is doing the value meal deals all the time, and then all they're doing just competing on that.

So I, I, you know, especially in the pizza industry, a lot of people look at Domino's and Papa John's and see they're hiring 10,000 drivers and they're really growing in sales. But those are technology companies. They know how to trigger customers to order more frequently. So when you see that 599 medium pizza, right? You know, that's a way to get information, right? Which we always say, like you want to offer things for free as a business to get people's email, phone number, address. Social media handles whatever information you can gather from your customers. Incentivize them to give you that information. But it's what they do with that information that sets them apart versus the local independence. Local independence don't do much with it. Domino's, Papa John's, utilize it. They have follow up sequences, they have text message email, they follow you on social. They have all of those things in place to use that information to get more sales later.

I have a client, it freaked me out and they told me they have a, like an 8,000 person email list and they don't email anybody.

What's the point?

I know, it's like, why are you kidding me?

You know what happens is I think a lot of folks don't know what to email.

It's so easy. Just, just communicate like you said. Just say, hi, I'm thinking about you. You know, just be yourself. Like you say, be yourself.

Yes. I mean, so when someone signs up to our email, there's a message that I have that goes out and you can sign up at our email, smartpizzamarketing.com forward slash email. I don't sell anything in the email. We have sponsors in the email that you can check out. But like there's no hard selling from me, right? It's just information. But what I do is I have an auto follow up sequence that says, hey, it's Bruce. And it is automated. But they do go to me. Hey, it's Bruce from the Smart Pizza Marketing podcast. Thanks so much for checking it out. Quick question. How did you find me? Right, and reply to this email goes directly to my inbox. I get so many replies from people that says, hey, I found you from the podcast. And it just starts a conversation.

Exactly. That's all it's about. I always tell people, you know, the secret to social media is being social. Right. It's not a one sided conversation. It's not like, you know, hey, here's me, here's me. This is all about me. No, make it about them.

I mean, when you're super famous, you can get away with that, but not if you're a local business.

But still, even then, I hate, you know, I just think that's. Yeah, that's crazy, right? Yeah. So let's switch, switch over to leadership. You know, leadership is real critical at this time. With restaurants. What do you think is the number one trait a leader needs today?

You know, this is hard for me because I wasn't the best leader in the world when I was operating. I'll be honest. I. Nobody ever taught me like what good leaders looked like or what qualities good leaders had. It's something that I've only really learned by talking to guys like you and Rudy, Mick and other operators who do a great job. So I'm not necessarily the best person in the world to answer this question, but I. What I think is a good leader is communication. I think communication is undervalued. You can never over communicate with your staff, with your spouse, with your kids, whoever it is. And I think a good trait a leader can have is finding qualities in people that they may not think they have and then sticking them in areas of the business that they will thrive in, even if they may not think they're going to thrive there.

That's true. That's so true. Yeah. I call it asset allocation. Taking your assets and applying them to the most potential they have.

Yes. I think that's a good point. Like. Right. But not asking them what they wanted.

No, you have to.

Yeah. What they do good at and then put them in that spot. You know who was great at that? Walt Disney. If you ever go biography. Disney was fantastic at that. He was. He was one. There's a lot of stories about him taking people out of his company in the early days and putting them like on the Disneyland project. And they were like, what am I doing on the Disneyland? I'm an artist. He's like, trust me, you're going to do great. You're going to love it. And then they be ended up becoming the president of Disneyland Land.

Oh, wow.

So he would like fine qualities in people that they didn't even know they had and put them in a spot to thrive. He was fantastic at that.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

You've had a couple people from Disney on your show before, right?

Yeah. Lee Cockrell, who was the vice president of Walt Disney Corporation. He opened Disneyland Paris. He was also the vice president of the Magic Kingdom in Disneyland, but he oversaw 40,000 employees.

Damn. Yeah. My. My little team of three seems really small now.

Mine too. I have no team. I have all just kind of part time people who work with us and help us out. But like. Yeah, talking to him too. It's like, how do you get past that? That's like for a guy like me. So the most employees I've ever had was probably 80. Right. We had two pizzerias. One had 50 employees or 60 employees. One had, you know, 20. So the most people I've ever managed at one time is 80, and I thought that was a lot. Like, imagine being responsible for 40,000 people.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the most I've ever. When I worked for Wolfgang, there was a time I was managing probably, like, 300 people.

That's a. That's like a lot. Like, you think 300 people. Like, holy moly.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Right now.

But, yeah, he had a lot of great quality. We had many podcasts, and he was on our summit where he talked a lot about, like, what qualities he looks for in people and communication and what he taught his. The people that worked right under him, that directly worked with those 40, 000 employees, like, how to build a good team. And he had great ideas and talked a lot about how to do that better.

Very cool. Yeah. Pizza Summit. You're doing another one, aren't you?

I don't know if I'm doing another one. I haven't. I haven't decided. I feel like I'm kind of summing it out.

You know, I'm in if you do it.

I know you. I know. I. I'm gonna leave it to the people. I put an email out there. I haven't got a huge response of people saying they wanted it, but I feel like when we did this, when I did the summit, it was pretty early, right? Like, everything was. Yeah. The first week of April, almost like one of the first summits out there. And since then, there's been 4 million summits.

Oh, my God. I know. I. I get emails every day from someone doing a summit. And then, you know, you did your summit. I did the conquer summit in May.

Yeah.

You know, everyone's doing a summit, so that's like.

I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to do the same thing everybody else does. Going back to the first point, we said, like, be different. So I'm trying to think of a way that I can do something different, and if I can pull it off, that it's different.

I got an idea for you. I'll talk to you about later.

Oh, yeah, let's talk about it. Because I'm up for something. I don't want to do the same thing.

I got an idea. I've been. Because I had the same thing. I was like, do I really want to do it? Because normally I do my, you know, my restaurant, my. My success summit.

Yeah.

In the fall. But in you know, we can't meet this year, so I was thinking about doing online, but now I'm like, I need to do something different too. So. Yeah, let me talk to you about it. I have an idea.

When we get off this, we'll talk about it.

Really cool idea.

So, yeah, I've been thinking about something too. Maybe we have the same idea.

That'd be great. Yeah, we probably do, actually, because we tend to go with ideas that are similar.

Yeah, that is true.

Yeah. So let's talk about self care. You know, what do you do to take care of yourself? Especially since COVID happened. I know, right?

You can't go to the gym as much. I actually finally just started to get to go back to the gym like a couple weeks ago.

I know they just opened up. You know, I'm a big Orange Theory fan. They. Yeah, they just started opening New Mexico, shut down everything for a long time and then they opened their gyms up a while ago, but you have to wear a mask. And they just opened Orange Theory like two weeks ago. And I've been going back and, oh, it's been my salvation.

What is Orange Theory, by the way?

Orange series. It's a, it's a. It's a change the franchise. And it's basically. It's a. It's. It's like a cross, kind of cross training workout. You do some cardio, so you have some, you know, treadmill work. You have a rower, there's a water rower. They do. And they do a lot of floor work with weights and they do some stuff with TRX bands and a lot of core work. It's nice because it's. For me, it's someone else telling me what the workout is.

Yes.

Yeah. So it's. Every day is different. I don't know what to expect. And I'm telling you, there's exercises I probably wouldn't do at the gym, like deadlifts. I'm not going to do deadlifts.

Right.

You know, I'm not going to the gym, going, I can't wait to do that today. You know, like, oh, no. So it's nice because it makes you kind of. Okay, all right. It's part of the class. I'll do it.

Right.

So I do a lot of exercises I normally wouldn't do and it works on muscles that I normally wouldn't do. And I mean, I was down before COVID hit. I was down to like 13% body fat.

Really?

Which for me was. Was like, that's amazing.

That's. That is amazing.

Unfortunately, Covid put that all back on and then some.

Yeah, I mean, so when. When Covid first hit, I started because it. It just hit at the right time. Where I live in Boston, it was pretty nice out. So I started going for, like, a morning walk and a nighttime walk.

Oh, nice.

And then I used to go to the gym five days a week, just the regular gym, but that closed. So I got, like, rubber bands and a kettlebell, and I was doing some stuff around the house. But I love going for that morning walk, you know, when nobody's out. Seven o' clock in the morning, get out there, go for the walk, put the headphones in, listen to a podcast or an audiobook, and just spend 30, 45 minutes. It's like my meditation. I can't sit down and meditate for 15 or 20 minutes in silence. Like, my head will explode.

Like, I do.

I can't do it, but I can go out and for a walk. And, like, that's my meditation. So I go for walks, I go to the gym. I try to. I think it's super important to take care of yourself and any kind of exercise, Basketball, ride a bike, play with your kids in the pool, go for a walk in the morning, get to the gym. Whatever you can do to get physically going is going to help your brain for sure.

You should try an exercise I do, and everyone knows I'm a huge Tony Robbins fan.

Yeah.

So he does this exercise called priming, and it's actually. There's a YouTube video on it, and it takes you through some breath work, and then it takes you through a visualization exercise, some gratitude, and then you visualize some stuff in the future. I like it a lot because it gives me a little time to kind of refocus my brain, but also helps me get some breath work in. I always say it kind of kills two birds with one stone. So I get some visualization, I get some gratitude in, and it also helps me with some breath work.

Send me that link. I'll definitely check it out. I'm always up for something new that helps out for sure. Yeah.

And then don't just sit there in silence and just meditate and think, oh, my God, I'm gonna go crazy. Yeah, Actually, it's him talking, so it kind of walks you through. And it goes fast. I mean, oh, good. It's like 10 minutes, 10, 12 minutes. But it goes pretty fast. I mean, I'm always like, wow, it's done already. Damn.

After 10 minutes, like, I sit down in silence and, like, you know, it's like, have you seen, have you ever seen that movie Here Comes the Boom with Kevin James?

No.

Oh, go check it out. It's a super funny movie. Okay. UFC fighter. And there's this part where he's a teacher and he's teaching a class that doesn't speak English.

Oh, wow.

He's teaching them English and like, he's trying to do this for extra money. And there's a part where it's in this classroom, but it's a night class where he tries to teach them English. And in the classroom next door, there's like an A meeting going on. In the beginning of the AA meeting, they do like the, you know, they bow your head and you, like, you say thank you to Jesus and they can hear it in the other room. So, like, there's this part where this guy puts his head down and like, he like, looks up every two seconds like, is it over yet? That would totally be me. Like, that's me.

Yeah. Are we done?

It's been 20 minutes. Yeah, it's been 30 minutes.

I'm done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's totally cool. So over the last few months, you know, I've. I've invested a lot lately on, you know, some mastermind groups and stuff like that. You know, some really cool books. I've been reading a lot of new programs. I've been really big into this, you know, since COVID hit about really escalating my. My kind of self improvement game. What's one of the best investments you've made over the last couple months?

Huh? That's a great question. I mean, I've always been involved with mastermind groups. For the last, I'd say five years, we have, we run mastermind groups and I always get great ideas and inspiration, even though I'm naturally an introvert and I don't like to be around groups of people. It's not that I don't like it, it's just that it drains me and I need to recoup. But the mastermind groups that I'm part of, I love it because we get so many ideas from being around people and helping them answer questions and not only like them asking us questions, but other people. It's always good to be around people who have different perspectives than you.

Oh, yeah.

Because that helps you a lot.

How many mastering how many mastermind groups you run? Right now?

We have like five. Five different ones, I think.

Yeah, I think last time I talked you had like three. Three or four.

I try to keep them to like 20 or 25 people max. I find that more than that, it gets less. The best part about being a part of a mastermind group is you get to know the people in the mastermind.

Yeah, yeah. And that's true.

Understand their business and they understand your business. So as the calls get further along, they know your business so they can help you more because they understand what you're trying to do versus everybody being new all the time and in and out, in and out, and then nobody really knows anybody. Podcasts, reading it, like audiobooks and podcasts are great for me too.

Oh, awesome. Yeah. I have one mastermind group right now and I'm getting ready to start a second one. And. And I've actually, I've had a really good. I mean, I've been really impressed by, you know, I have like 30 people. That's my cap. Yeah, I got 30 people and I get standard. I mean, 25, 26 people show up on a call.

Really?

I mean, it's pretty great, you know, show up rate, which I'm really impressed with normally. And you know, you and I have been in mastermind groups and like, yeah, you know, it's a couple hundred people and like 10 people show up.

You know, you have to be dedicated. That's why I charge money as much as I don't really need the money to charge people. It shows a level of dedication.

So I think so.

Money and dedicate time. You're not willing, you're not going to show up.

Yeah, no, you're not. That's why, you know, I charge. I charge a premium for my mastermind groups. So.

Yeah, you're back around. I was group. I did it. I was in there. I think I was in there, wasn't I?

In.

In a call.

You were a mastermind group with me for a while.

Yeah, we were in a mastermind. What happened? I don't know what happened to that. We all just kind of like, just.

We kind of like went our separate way as well. You know, Mike's having a baby, you know, I know.

That's great. Congratulations to Mike. That's amazing, Mike.

And you know, shout out to our buddy.

I love Mike.

Yeah. You know, and. And Yagal, he's got. He, you know, he did a. He did a couple summons too. He's got his pawn leader stuff going. Yeah, I love ma mind groups. So I'm in. I'm actually in two right now that I belong to.

For me. Not. Not ones that you run.

Yeah, the two I belong to, but I'm not run.

What do you get the most. Like when you go to a mastermind group, and I know we were in one before, but that was a long time ago.

That's a long time ago.

What do you try to get the most out of? Do you try to go in there to help people or do you have questions that you ask?

I go in to have questions and how I can learn and grow my brand.

Yeah.

So most of my mastermind groups I'm in are entre, entrepreneur, online marketing, kind of mastermind group. So I'm trying to expand my brand.

Yep.

Yeah, I just want to be better. And I'm. And I still have the same business coach I've had since 2009.

Really?

Same one, 2009, same business coach. And I, he. Every, every month, you know, we have a. Now we're down to like only two calls a month, but every time I have a call with him, I kind of dig a little deeper into my psyche and I just come away with something that makes me a little bit better. Better man, better person. Yeah. It's awesome. Awesome. So what do you see as like the new normal for restaurants?

I don't know. I don't know what the new normal is going to be. You know, crazy.

I hope mask gonna be around for like, you know, just.

I think they're going to be around until at least the spring.

Yeah.

You know, I think there's always those people that are afraid anyway. I think they're going to be around a lot longer than we thought they were when this whole thing started or when we kind of got in the lockdown in March. You know, I think if you look at Japan, they. They wear masks constantly all around. They've always been a culture. Yeah. So I don't think that it's going to go away for us anytime soon. I finally gotten used to it. I have to wear it to the gym. I have to wear it to my daughter's softball games and practices. So I'm pretty used to it by now.

I think it's going to be.

But for the new normal, I think we're. We're in a. In a. In a strange time. You know, who knows what's going to happen with the election and what that is going to do to the people's mindset when comes to what we're going through now. If, if Trump wins or if he loses, who knows what that's going to look like. But I think the winter is going to be a tough winter for restaurants for sure.

I think it's going to be too. I do Think, though, that that shift to online ordering and takeout and delivery is not gonna. It's gonna stay pretty solid.

Yeah.

Because it's. I think, you know, when you have something that lasts this long, it creates new kind of lifestyles, like people ordering, eating at home, watching Netflix. They get used to it.

Yeah. You know, I think you should do. If you're a restaurant too. Winter's coming, so if you have outdoor seating, you're lucky and you're getting by with that between that and the takeout. But if you're going into winter and you have to kind of get rid of that outdoor, I really think you should consider looking at your menu and kind of revamping your menu to a more takeout friendly price point. Definitely sit down menu. Just making your sit down menu like a to go one. Like make it a totally different menu.

That's been the biggest game changer for my clients is streamlining their menu. It's helped them increase their profits so much.

Yeah.

Because they got rid of a lot of those dogs that they didn't need.

And it's like the consumer wants to support restaurants, but they don't want to pay 27 for that dish that they're gonna eat at home that they were going to eat in your dining room just because you put it in a box to go.

Right, Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So takeout delivery, online ordering, they're here to stay.

Yep.

Yep.

No going anywhere. They're not going anywhere.

They're not going anywhere.

I don't think it's ever going to go back to, like, not having online ordering.

No. In fact, I have clients that are actually remodeling a lot of their restaurants for when they can do dining. But they're installing, like, take a delivery or like a takeout window.

Yes.

Yeah.

So my daughter's just got a job at a place called Cookie Monster.

Oh, really?

Yeah. It's a cookie place. The bot monster kind of feeding off the Boston accent thing.

Mm.

And it's a place that they serve cookies and ice cream. They serve two things and they have cookie sandwiches. And they just opened a location right in my town. And they have a really nice dining room, but it's locked. And they put in a side window to order and pick up, and that's all they do now. Like, you can't even go into the restaurant.

That's it.

Yeah. And it just makes it. People just. You don't even have to go into the building. You stand outside.

That's nice.

Those social distancing stickers on the ground. You order at one window, you pick up at the next, and you get out of there.

Those social distancing things at the store are so, so crazy, you know, especially, like at the big departments, the big stores, and they say only go this way, right?

Yes.

You see, people just do not watch those. They just go their own. They just do. They're back and forth, back and forth.

My wife gets so mad because she is a stickler for the rules. So she literally will walk up and down every aisle of that and like, she sees someone coming up the wrong way and she's just like, what are you doing?

She's just in the look. Does she give him the look?

She does give. She gives me the look and I'm like, what are you looking at me for? I didn't go the wrong way.

Like, you're supposed to say something to him.

Yeah. My business.

Yeah. You're not an extrovert, you know, you're like, I'm just minding my own business. I'm trying to get through. I'm just trying to get out. Get through the store and get out.

That's true.

That's it. I'm just trying to get in and out. I don't want any extra hassles. Especially nowadays, everyone's like, so violent.

Yes.

You just don't want to say anything to anybody. I just want to get. I just want to go in the store, get my thing, get out. That's all I want.

That's all I want to do with my whole life.

That's it. I just want to get in and get out. And I'm a talker. I like to talk, but man, now I go to stores, I'm in. I. I know exactly what I want. I head to that. I get it. Check out self checkout, and I'm out.

Yes.

That's it.

That's the name of the game for me for sure.

I'm not playing around. No more around. I'm not socializing, you know, I don't care if you recognize me. Hey, nice buys. Yeah. Talk to me, text me. Yes.

Text me, email me. We'll talk in the.

Text me, email. We'll talk later. Yeah, yeah. Do you think there's anything that restaurants did before that you don't think they're going to be able to do now with COVID Yeah.

Ignore technology.

Ignore technology.

A lot of those restaurants got by on their name and their reputation for the years that they did previous. I don't think that your reputation for what you did in the last 20 years is going to affect people's decision making at all anymore. I think it's going to be totally based on can they see what you do online? If they like it, can they order from you online? And is the process seamless? And if that's the case, they'll order from you and if it's not, they probably won't.

If you were going to tell your clients to kind of make a little shift in their marketing message, what's one of the biggest things you've been telling people to tell to shift in their, in their messaging alone?

That's a good question. I don't. In their messaging, like I said, go back to hope my whole bring your personality out in your marketing. Like show who you are. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there and don't be afraid to be who you are, even if that is going to, and I don't mean be offensive or a jerk, but what I mean is like if you're a quirky person, like embrace that and put it on camera and put that on social media. And if one person leaves a bad comment, they're going to leave a bad comment. That's fine. You're not going to ever be for everyone.

True.

But try to put yourself out there and be yourself. Not too corporate, not phony, but like yourself because you will attract the customers you want to attract by doing that.

Yeah. I've been telling people lately too, is really push the safety.

Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's, people.

Want to see it. I mean, they want to see what you're doing.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I, I, I think that's a given. Right. Like you, this was something that we talked about.

I think it's a given. But you look at social media feeds like I don't see anybody talking, you know, doing it. Only people that we know do. But. Right.

I mean you do see videos of people who are touching food that didn't have gloves on with like the caption down the bottom. This was recorded pre Covid.

Oh yeah, yeah, I see that now too.

You know that you see, do see that a lot. But yeah, you definitely have to be aware of the fact that people are hypersensitive to that.

Exactly. What's your favorite social media platform?

I like Instagram.

Do you really?

I do. I like Instagram. Facebook is good for ads, but I find myself scrolling on Instagram the most. I'm not a huge consumer of content on any of these platforms, to be honest with you. I don't think that I would even use social media if it wasn't for business purposes. But I do like Instagram and I think that between stories in the feed, it's. If I was going to suggest people use one platform organically, it's the. It's the easiest one to use and it's got a large audience and it's the. I think it's the easiest one to kind of grow awareness on the quickest. If you're starting from zero, who's a.

Couple brands you recommend on Instagram, People should follow that, do it right.

I think Frank from East Village Pizza. Yeah. I think Tony Baloney is another pizzeria out of New Jersey who does a great job on Instagram. I just interviewed folks on the local business podcast called Good Night Fatty. That's the name of the business.

I saw it in your email blast this morning.

Yeah. So they're a cookie company that only sells cookies from like 5 to 1am Thursday through Sunday. And they started the business three years ago and they just wanted to create a place where people could go after dinner and have some cookies and some desserts and some.

That's pretty awesome.

Ice cream and drinks and. But they couldn't. There was no real places like that. People could go to the restaurant, but they couldn't go anywhere after. So they created that and they named it Good Night Fatty. Not because we're fat, but like they.

Used to call it.

There's a husband. They're a husband and wife and they used to be like, oh, you're fatty. You want to go get some dessert? Like just joking each other.

Yeah.

So I think they're. And they do a great job on Instagram and they, they built a huge following pretty much with no advertising other than social media.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, I love again, brands that show their personality. Really. They really resonate with people.

Yes.

Yeah.

Wendy's. Everybody names Wendy's. They do a good job. But I feel like a lot of people try to emulate what Wendy's does in Wendy's is Wendy's. Because when Wendy's did what they do on Twitter, it was new.

The roasting.

Yes. Like no one else was doing that. And for a big brand like Wendy's to go out there and. And kind of roast people like you said was like, unheard of. But now you see all these brands doing it. So when you. When you see other local businesses try to do that, you're like, you know, you're kind of just trying to be like Wendy's.

Exactly. Yeah. Then. Then they start the copycat thing and then it's like, it's, it's not fun, it's not cool anymore.

It was new, it was interesting, and then everybody else tried to do it, and then it becomes uninteresting.

Very cool. Yeah, you know, I'm, you know me, I'm a big believer in culture, and I think, you know, culture is huge for restaurant success. What do you say? You talk a lot of restaurant owners. What do you say is the key to creating culture?

I think you have to go back to finding the right people, and it comes from the top down. I've learned that from you and I've learned that from other people we've had on the podcast. Like, it comes from the top down. Whatever the owner does and the managers do, the people below them are going to do. And communication is the, the, the prime example of that. Like, you can't over communicate with your staff. Again, I'm not the expert at this. Like, this is not my area of expertise. This is only information that I've gathered from talking to restaurant owners and experts like you and Rudy, Mick and all those people who are real experts at building great culture. But I think it comes from the top down. And I think that you have to, as the owner, take responsibility for everything in the restaurant. And if you do that, people below you will do that as well.

Yeah, exactly.

What are your thoughts on that? I'd be curious to see what you.

Think of that culture to me. Well, first off, I always ask people, you know, what describe culture or define what culture is.

That's usually what culture is for me, is what your employees say about your business when they're outside of your business.

Exactly. Yeah. I would say brand is what the customer thinks of you, culture is what your, what your team thinks of you. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. And how do they feel about you? And so many restaurants, like, you know, create a toxic culture because they just don't, you know, they just don't have that. Again, they don't have that caring. It's all about, it's appreciation. Culture is a feeling. That's why it's hard. You know, anybody in a restaurant business, I mean, recipes are recipes, you know, pizza places, you know, you can go and knock off someone's recipes, you can knock off their decor. I could build a restaurant identical to, you know, Frank's place, you know, but I'm not gonna be able to copy his culture. And that's what's going to be the separator. Culture is the brand differential. To me, it's what separates the goods of a great from the outstanding. The outstanding restaurants. If you ever look at any restaurant you've ever, ever thought of that was really outstanding. I mean, just really just, wow, that place is amazing. It's the culture, you know, because you've. And I've been to places that had great, I mean, great food, but you just don't go back because the culture sucks. It's toxic. Everyone's negative. They're gossipy.

Yeah. It's funny to see my daughters get to work now because it's.

They're cursed. Dude. Because he was a dad.

That's true.

It's just funny because, like, I pick them up from work sometimes and the conversations that they have, it's like, brings me back to when I was a kid and getting my first jobs. It's like the same conversations, you know, 20 years later they're having about their job that I was having about my job at that level. It's so funny to see it.

All business problems are people problems.

Yeah, it's true. It's just the things that they talk about is exactly what you just described. Like someone doing. Coming in with a bad attitude or someone not doing their job when they're supposed to do something or they didn't do something last night.

It's so funny thing about culture is like, you know, there's A players and there's C players. A players don't like C players and C players don't like A players. A players don't like the C players because the C players are lazy. They have to pick up all the slack and do their work for them. And C players don't like the A players because they make them look bad.

True.

Yeah.

Don't be a C player.

Don't be a C player. Yeah. Never be a C player. Actually, in fact, you know, my first book was your restaurant sucks. Second book was your restaurant still sucks. I'm working on book number three.

What's it called?

Your restaurant culture sucks.

Nice. I think that's going to be a top seller.

It's going to be my. It's going to be my. I decided I wanted to finish out. I call it the Suck series. I want to finish out the Suck series as a trilogy. So I needed one more book. So I was like, you know what? The biggest problem I see with restaurants is culture. So the third one is coming out in December. Your restaurant culture sucks.

I should write a book that goes along with that. Says your marketing sucks.

Yeah. We actually should do a book together and do it. Your restaurant marketing sucks.

What's the, what's it called when you have four of something?

A four. A quad.

Yeah, the quad will be. Your marketing sucks.

Your marketing sucks. We need. Yeah, we might need a fourth book, but I decided that the next one is definitely. That's the biggest thing I actually, that's probably the number one thing I coach on is culture.

Well, that's the number one. I do a marketing show, Donald, and the number one question I get asked is about hiring good people. And I'm like, I have no idea. I have no idea.

Your culture is a magnet. If you have a. Here's another thing too. A talent is not attracted to a C level culture, right?

Like, they know they can. A talent can probably tell if that's gonna be a good place to work or not.

Exactly. They know right away and they don't want to work for a C level place. You know, all those like high end, you know, high, high value, you know, big known places like Wolfgang Puck, all those big places, they don't have problems finding people because they have a good culture.

It's like those businesses that you hear of, like, is it called Zingerman's? Is that one?

Yeah, Zingerman's, yeah. In Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Yeah. They're a well known business that is like, people want to go there. And like there was another one, Zappos is another one that people work at a lot. I mean, these are really big companies, but people want to work there because they're known for being here.

Here's. Here's an interesting thing that you have to understand about Zappos. And I was kind of been you know, studying a lot about culture since I'm working on this book on culture. So I've been studying a lot about Zappos. You know, it's harder to get into Zappos to work than it is to get into Harvard. You have a better chance of getting into Harvard than working at Zappos.

Well, you know, another one that I was thinking of speaking of that, like the way you just mentioned that my interview with Lee, he was saying that about Disney, A lot of people want to work for Disney because they grow up loving the Disney company and they want to go work there. And he said they have like a hundred interview questionnaire that you have to fill out.

Wow.

You even get to get interviewed for the job. And he says if 100 people go to fill out that questionnaire, only 50% will even fill it out completely. So it almost eliminates 50% of the people who wouldn't fit in anyway before they even have to waste time interviewing somebody.

Yeah, I'm a huge believer too in behavioral assessments. I use either predictive index, you can use disc, or you can use a pro scan. In my new book too, I'm going to go a lot into how behavioral assessments really help you fine tune your team. It's like having a nice car and then turning into a high performance racing machine with behavioral assessments.

So interesting.

It's gonna be cool.

When is it coming out?

December.

Geez, you put. You pump out these books like they like I. You wrote three books before I even got one issue of a magazine out.

1. Well, I'm trying to do a book a year.

That's amazing.

Yeah, but. And now, you know, the first one took me a while. This the second one, I got the process down. The third one, I'm already like, I'm already jamming on it pretty good.

So you talk about things like I talk about marketing, you talk about culture. Like culture doesn't change. Right. Like culture 20 years ago is pretty much culture today. Like 20 years ago. If I write a book about marketing next year it's going to be useless.

Yeah, but there's principles about marketing that's true about connection, engagement, being authentic. That we can talk about.

Not being boring.

Yeah, not being boring. I mean there's a lot of stuff. I mean the vehicles change, but the message doesn't. The message doesn't change ever.

Yeah, that's true.

Just about being. It's about being authentic, you know, marketing is about being yourself.

Yeah, you're right about that.

Yeah. That's why we should do a book.

Yeah, let's do it.

All right. All right, we're on. All right. What do you think is one thing restaurants should do right now to get ready for winter?

I think they should go back to what we talked about a few minutes ago and revamp their menu and like really say, okay, we're going to be a takeout delivery. Takeout delivery restaurant. Come remember when we can't be outside anymore. Depending on where you're located, especially in my area. How can we maximize that? What can we do to sell more product in an easier way to be available to people when they want to order from us? I don't mean like coming up with a big ass menu that pleases everybody. I mean, like, what are we gonna do that's really good? Like In N Out burger. I'm fascinated with In N Out burger as a company. They do burgers, fries and Shakespeare. That's it. It's a billion. A multi billion dollar company with 363 restaurants and all they do is shakes. Burgers.

Yeah. And that menu has not changed much since the 50s.

Changed at all.

I think they added one thing, like in the 70s, I think they added one item. That was it.

They have like those secret menu items that are a little bit different.

Yeah.

But still part. It's still places and shakes. Right.

I always tell people, if you want to see the power of a small menu, just take a look at in and out.

They do a couple things well. They focus on being the best at what they do, which is burger shakes and fries. They are extremely clean.

And they're extremely clean.

And they have a great culture like you talked about. And they pay their people really well. Like you can make $150,000 a year as a manager of an in n out burger.

Yeah. No, it's amazing. They know. Great culture. Great story too. The biggest thing about culture, I find, is if you want to change your culture overnight, stop focusing so much on the guest experience and focus more on the team experience.

Yeah, I agree.

You know, everyone talks about the guest experience. Was the guest happy? Was there's a guest this, you know, did you get it to him fast? Did you get to them in time? You know, but we don't, we don't really care about the employees, the team.

Yeah. Because if you make that, they'll pass on. On to the customer.

They will, yeah. If your team experience is solid, your guest experience will be solid too. Yeah.

So back to your question. I would be like, what can I be the best at? Maybe pick two or three things. What can I be the best at, the most well known for in my area and master that. And that's what my menu would be.

Exactly. Right. I think after I heard you on, on your morning show, I think I made a quote, a comment I said, being different isn't always better, but being better is always different.

100. Yes, that's exactly. That was the best ever. Yeah.

Be the best.

Yeah. You don't. In and out's a perfect example of you don't have to sell a thousand different things. You can just be the best. And it's like not even the best burger, but the execution is the best.

No, it's, it's. Yeah, it's not like the most amazing hamburger, but it's just everything about it, the whole experience is, you know, and you're sitting there and that thing's just onions and the cheese.

It's nice and clean. It's bright. You walk in, it's affordable. They're very friendly.

I get a smile, like, everyone's happy to be there.

All of that goes together and, like, you walk away and you're like, you know what? That was good. I had a good experience.

How long do you see restaurants in the restaurant world itself kind of recovering from this pandemic? How long do you think it's going to take?

I think it's going to take years.

Yeah, I think.

I think that people aren't going to be comfortable going into restaurants like they did in January for a while, especially the way the culture is now, the way the information flows so freely, and there's so many. It feels like this has become a political thing and not necessarily a health thing.

Yeah.

People are using social media to really, like, point out that fact. And I just think that it's going to be a little while before people feel comfortable going back to restaurants like they used to.

Yeah. The thing that just drives me crazy is that how each state has such different, you know, regulations for this.

Yeah.

You know, are they open up in Massachusetts yet? Are you guys opened up?

So we're. I think we're at 25 capacity indoors, and then you can have outdoor dining. He actually pulled it back, so we're actually doing all right in Massachusetts. We don't have a lot of cases, and we don't have a lot of new cases on a daily basis. And he recently pulled it back. So even for outdoor dining, I think you can only have 50 people max.

See, that's like, crazy. Yeah. You know, when the data doesn't support it and they're like, shutting things back down. Like New Mexico did that, too. The governor here, you know, we opened up dining rooms. I think it was like 25, 50. Then she shut it back down again.

Yeah, it's. They don't want it to spread, I guess they don't want it to get worse to back to where it was. But I don't know what, like, I don't know the solution to that.

But then you got. Yeah. And then you got places like New York City and, you know, in New Jersey where, you know, they're like total shut down and there's like, no end in sight for when they're gonna allow in, you know, in. In. In room dining.

So New Hampshire is the state above us. They're 100 capacity.

No way.

Yeah.

Yeah. Now I have a client in South Dakota, and they're like 50 capacity. And. But when you walk up to. When you go to I and I Just actually went to a workup with up. Up there with them, and you wouldn't even think there's cover going on. I mean, people walk around, nobody's wearing. The only time you have to wear a mask, when you walk into, like, the major chains, like you go to Walmart or, you know, a grocery store, you have to wear a mask. But otherwise people just walk around.

It's crazy.

And then in New Mexico, if you even go to a patio here, I mean, it's feel. I feel like I'm getting frisked, you know, I'm getting a body cavity search. I'm getting my temperature taken. I'm getting. They're asking like for swabs. They want blood. It's like crazy here.

I haven't been to a restaurant since this started, to be honest with you. I've gotten takeout from restaurants, but I haven't eaten at a restaurant since then this all started.

Oh, I've eaten at restaurants.

I really love my house that much. It's summertime in Boston anyway, so I'm like, just hanging out.

The only downside about New Mexico is, like, in the daytime, you know, it gets up in the hundreds here. So as it gets a little warm, sit outside.

That's too hot to sit outside.

Yeah. But night time's beautiful. It's in the 70s.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. So how do you deal with stress when you're stressed out?

I go to the gym.

Me too.

That's what. That's literally how I deal with stress exercise. Like go for a walk or I go to the gym. It's the only way that I can get stress relief. That's it.

That's awesome. That's what I do too. That's my. That's my go to. Also. That's my. My go to stress relief.

Yeah. Exert. And a tremendous amount of force outward at the gym. That totally relieves stress for me.

Yeah. When I worked in restaurants, I used to like go in the. Walk in and scream.

Oh, yeah. I was like. I was like. I would go downstairs and throw stuff around, like when no one was there. Holy moly.

Yeah. I always said the. The walking was always that portal of therapy.

It's pretty quiet in there. Insulated.

You can't really quite insulated. You hear, like outside of. Somebody's in there. They're just working things out, man. They're just working it out. But you come out better. Just get it out. Here's the thing. Don't. Here's my thing about stress. Do not bottle it Up. Yeah, get rid of it. Go for a walk, exercise, do something.

Going for a walk is great too. It's not as much stress relief as for me as the gym, but just going outside, listen to a book or a podcast and taking a 20 minute walk and just get away from the situation.

Exactly. Do you see any opportunities for restaurants kind of in this new post, COVID19World?

Yeah, Ghost kitchens are amazing right now. There's a lot of that information out there about ghost kitchens leverage. And I did a podcast about this with a guy from Chicago who uses his pizzeria as a way to get like he has like three other types of businesses that he uses inside of his pizzeria. A sandwich place, a soup place.

Which episode?

I'll look it up. It's the one with Rick Ruber from Rick Ruber. Bricks wood fired pizza. Oh, cool.

Because I, you know, I have a lot of clients asking about ghost kitchens lately.

So yeah, we did a whole podcast about how he's leveraging Uber UberEats and DoorDash and those third party platforms because there's a lot of talk about those people being horrible, which they can be. But you know what? I leverage those people because my percentage is low and I look at it as a way to deliver, which I don't have to. So that percentage goes to the delivery driver anyway. And I use it as a way to capture new customers.

Oh, see? See if you can do it for that. And then you get that. Because I'm telling you, data is a new frontier for restaurants. Yeah, I think your data.

Yeah. People who have the biggest problem with third parties have no way to leverage to gather the information. So if you can leverage third parties to get new customers or get exposure to people who may or may not have ever heard of you, you can do that. But you have to have a way to get that information from those third party, whether that be an email, a phone number, an address. You have to be able to capture all that input to use later to convert them to your own online ordering platform. I'm looking it up right here. I try to figure out.

Cool, cool. So what's a new habit you started since you've been on this lockdown Covid thing?

Huh? Any new habits that I have, I don't think I have my morning walks. That's the only thing that's been like truly, truly different for me.

To be honest.

This whole covert thing hasn't messed up my routine a whole heck of a lot.

Yeah, you and I work from home most. I mean, you know, it took a big toll out of my speaking schedule.

True. I. I enjoy speaking that much anyway, to be honest with you.

Oh, I love it, actually. I love speaking.

I know you love it. 288 episode number 288 on the smart. 288.

288.

I didn't love speaking. I enjoyed it while I was doing it, but I didn't love the process or I didn't look forward forward to it. So that didn't bother me too much. I like the fact that I don't have to do it as much. I love staying home and kind of being able to talk into the microphone and spread my message just like I would in person there. But other than that, my. My schedule has pretty much been the same.

You know, the one thing I did start doing, I started going to cryotherapy. You know, when they put you in that chamber, it's like a, you know, negative 191 degrees.

Yes. How is that?

I actually love it now. I normally hate the cold. That's one of the reasons I moved out of Boston.

Yes.

I hate the cold.

I'm with you.

I don't mind. You know, the cryotherapy thing is kind of cool. You only go in there for like three minutes max. But I mean, it helps me with my joints. You know, I hate to say I'm getting older.

Yeah.

Helps with my joints. Helps get with my recovery, you know, because I'm hitting the gym harder now because I'm going back to orange theory. So I actually, I love it.

I can't. Like, three minutes is doable. Three months.

Three months.

Boston is not.

No, living in Boston's not.

Yeah.

Especially in the winter.

It's great here from May to November.

It's great there. June. It's about it. I used to say Boston. I love. I love the two weeks. The two weeks of summer in Boston. That was.

It's true. It's not. It's almost two weeks of summer.

Yeah. So name one book, audiobook or podcast that you recommend.

I am recommending the Jeff Bezos Letters, a new audiobook that I discovered.

So it's. Oh, really?

It's a great book if you're looking to grow your business or some insights as to how Amazon grew. It's 14 letters that Jeff Bezos himself wrote to investors through the years of growing Amazon. And it gives you some insights inside of his philosophy of customer acquisition, growth, customer service, building the team, technology. It just shows you all of his brain workings over the course of growing Amazon to what it is now, which we know is like one of the biggest companies in the world. Yeah, it's called the Bezos letters. They have it on Audible and on Re Amazon if you want to read it. But it's a great book.

You know, my trick is, and it's like one of my little hacks, is I'll get the book on Kindle, I'll get the audiobook, you know, the unabridged. And then what I'll do is I'll read and listen at the same time. Now I have to listen like 1.5 times, so could I read pretty fast?

Yeah.

But I find I retain a lot more if I'm listening to the speak, listen to the book, and I'm reading at the same time. One of my hacks. I love that. If I really want to get deep into something, I do that.

Yeah, I do listen to it at one and a half speed as well, because I wanted to go by quick, but I usually just listen to that on when I'm walking.

You start walking faster.

Yeah.

Gets me going. So, hey, what's one quote that you live by?

I live by everything is figureoutable.

I love that one. That is your. When are you gonna start making T shirts?

I have some. We have a store. I just don't promote it that much, but we do have some.

Oh, dude, you have a store. You had a store. I gotta get a T shirt.

Yeah, I'll send you one.

Awesome.

I'll send you one. Yeah.

Everything is incredible@smartpizzamarketing.com.

It'S not up yet. I'll send you a link. You can kind of take it out, but I'll send you a T shirt. You don't have to buy one. I'll send you.

Oh, cool, bro. You're awesome, man.

Everything is figureoutable. I love that quote. And it's kind of like how I started the podcast. When I started the podcast, I didn't know how to do a podcast. I figured it out doing this magazine. I don't know how to do a magazine, but I figured it out. Reach out to people like Sean from Entrepreneurial Chef and Pastry magazine. Helped me out tremendously with kind of figuring out the logistics. But as long as you want to do something, you have to. You have to want to do it, though. And that want has to be greater than whatever fear or laziness you have. And as long as the want is bigger, anything is figureoutable. I truly believe that.

That is so true. Now, that is. That is an epic quote. And yeah, if people would Adapt that one to their mindset. I'm telling you, it would change so many things.

Yeah, because no matter, there's always somebody. Especially now with the Internet and reaching out to people and like, if you use Twitter or Instagram or Facebook to like build a network of folks, like minded people, there's so many people you could reach out to that have either done or tried to do what you're trying to do. And you can ask them questions.

Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you, my friend. People want to contact you. They can hit you at Smart Pizza marketing dot com.

Yes, that's the website.

And your other podcast is the Local Business.

The Local Business Podcast. Yeah, you can find that at the bruce irving.com. that's kind of where we keep all the episodes over there.

The Bruce Irving dot com. Yes, I like that too.

That's the Local Business one. Yeah, we don't have too many. We, I think we only have 30 episodes of that one, but they're all pretty good. SEO, Instagram, YouTube, we talk a lot about like marketing methods.

Yeah, I love your, your Local Business one. In fact, you have a podcast center with Mike Michalowicz from Profit First. Actually, I contacted him, reached out and he's going to be on my podcast in October.

He's a super nice guy.

His schedule is pretty booked, but I was like so stoked. I think that is a game changer concept for restaurants. Profit First.

I think the people who did that and I talked to him kind of as this whole Corona thing was happening in the beginning. People who did that previous to this are fine because they have a cushion. They had to close for a month or two. They were able to kind of maintain that. So if that's one thing that you should do, go listen to that podcast with Mike and implement that Profit first strategy right now. So that way if you do have to close down in January, February, you still have some sort of cushion to get you to March and May.

Yeah, he actually has Profit First Accountants that will help you set up. I have a couple clients actually that hired Profit First Accountants to help with it, to work with them.

Really?

Yeah.

That's fantastic.

It's cool. It's a really cool concept and I'm looking forward to digging into that one with him.

But yeah, he's a really nice guy. That's going to be a great episode.

Awesome, Bruce, thanks so much. I always appreciate you being on the show. Such great insight. All my listeners love having you here because they learn so much and they, they always walk away with tons of value.

So My pleasure. Thank you for thinking of me.

Thank you. Thank you, my friend.