Becoming a Peacemaker: Finding Peace Within and Sharing It With the World (Podcast #46)

On behalf of me and Marianne Michaelis, I'd like to thank you for being a listener of our Human Intimacy podcast this year. It's always a privilege to spend time with you and I want to express my deep gratitude. If you are ready to take your healing and recovery to the next level, you're ready to deepen your healing and strengthen your connection and gain real tools for meaningful change. I invite you to join us and other Experts at the 2nd Annual Human Intimacy Conference where myself, Marianne and many other leading experts will come together for powerful teaching, live question and answer sessions and provide insightful pre conference conversations to help you get the most out of your conference experience. And right now, you can save 50% when you register before December 31st. Please don't miss this opportunity. Visit human intimacy.com and reserve your spot today.

There's something about you that I can't help but smile. When you smile and laugh when you laugh, something surround.

Welcome to the human intimacy podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner with my friend and colleague Marianne Michael. Is Marianne, how are you today?

Hi, Dr. Skinner. I am incredibly blessed to be here today. I know that this, this episode of our podcast is being released on Christmas or the week of Christmas, and I am, I know that what we're going to talk about today is we're going to be talking about peacemaking. And I know how important that is. And so I just feel incredibly blessed to be able to be here and have this discussion at such a time where we need so much peace in our world. And this is such a time where we celebrate peace on earth. Goodwill to mental. So glad to be here.

Yeah. And so to our listeners, the topic, Marianne said it already. We're going to be talking about peacemakers. And I can just imagine some of you are saying, oh, that's not me, because I'm angry, I'm upset, I've been hurt, or these people, of these people, family members, whatever, they, they don't. They're not peacemakers. And so I'm going to go into the firestorm this week and we're going to be dealing with all kinds of stress. But I want to talk about peacemaking in the first element. Peacemakers begin with peace within themselves. And my first question to our listeners, Are you at peace? Are you emotionally distressed, frustrated, angry at people? Or are you a person who looks for solutions? Are you a person who lifts people up? Are you a person who helps people solve problems? Are you a person who feels internal? I don't know what you want to call it, confidence or peace? So those are Some initial questions. What are your thoughts, Marianne?

You know, as your. As you first presented that, the first question I had, and I thought, gosh, if I were a listener, the first question I didn't have would be, so how do I find peace within myself? And then I. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, how have I done that before? Where do I go for that? And one of the things that I love, I love the 12 step programs. I love 12 step programs specifically because of the introspective questions. Because as you're working on steps, you're really. It's really about, where am I? And how do I get to this place of surrender where I'm open, where it's not about me? And I really love the looking inside my. What they call them. Oftentimes there's character defects, which I struggle with. That. That's. Those are never fun words to. To say, what are my character defects? But if we could find some other words and just say, where have. Where do I need to mature? Where do I need to develop? And so when I'm looking at how do I find peace within myself? I really have to slow down. I really have to take time to look inside and say, okay, if a family member is really triggering me or really bothering me or upsetting me, that is actually about me, not them. And I have to figure out what's going on inside of me. Why does that bother me? What is it about that that's really getting under my grill? And what do I need to figure out or work through to come to a peaceful place within myself so that I can turn around and react with integrity the way that I want to?

All right, so, Marianne, quick question. How do you know that you're in peace?

This is a great question. I think that peace for me comes and goes. I think it's a. I think it's a state. I was going to say it's an emotion, but I don't know that it's emotion. I think it's a. Generally, for me, it's a state of being. And, you know, if we were going to talk about our polyvagal, I know we talk about the polyvagal quite a bit, but that first ventral state of the polyvagal is. It's an openness, it's a connectedness, it's a creativeness, a curiosity. It's an energy where I have outpouring. So for me, when I'm at peace, I don't feel angry. I don't feel like I need to defend my walls. Aren't up. I'm very open, and I'm able to give others really a benefit of the doubt.

Okay, so two parts there. There's something happening inside of you when you're at peace, and there's something that happens inside of you that helps you look out when you're at peace.

Yes. So.

So it's a physiological component. When I'm at peace, there is something I feel physically.

Yes. And we could say the same thing. When I'm not at peace, there's something that I feel physiologically as well, and that's when I'm probably more in my fight or flight stage or my shutdown stage.

So using the polyvagal theory that we've talked about is. Is we are at a state of peace, or maybe I can use a different phrase here, a state of calmness, internal calmness. When I'm. When I'm at this place where I don't feel distressed if I'm lying, hiding, have secrets in conflict with people, that's not a state of peace.

Not even add resentful or judgmental as well to that.

Yes. And so now we bring this into the equation. We say, okay, individually, am I. And am I at this place where I'm at stress with myself? Saying another way, am I at war with myself? Because a peacemaker begins by looking in the mirror and saying, how do I put my life in harmony and congruence with the person that I want to be and long to be?

That congruency part that is so, so important. I wish I had said that earlier when you asked me, because I think that's such a quick way to sum up. How do I know I'm at peace? It's when I'm congruent with my morals and my values and I'm acting in a way that matches those.

Yes. And what we look at there is this internal place where I'm more relaxed. And it also means if I was. I say congruency, but I could also say a friend of mine taught me this, that if we have integrity, that integrity really means that something is complete or it's whole. And if something is organized with integrity, it means it is put together well. And so when I look at peacemakers and I look at the people who. I would say, that person is a peacemaker. You could be around that person, and they find a way to bridge the gap between people with distress. They are kind, they're caring, but they somehow have this capacity to. To solve problems.

And.

And to me, that begins with what's happening Inside of them, peacemakers beget more peace.

So we can tell by what they do, how they do, basically by their fruits, what that shows who they are.

And so the question is, is how do we find this place of peace? I mean, I know it's the holiday season, the Christmas for those who are of our listeners, who are Christians, and again, we call the savior the peacemaker. And yet this will have to go there. But the peace he brought wasn't the piece of over. The conflict of the time didn't go away. So peace in many instances, is it being at peace with self and in our relationships that one with.

So, Dr. Skinner, I'm going to be completely honest with you. When you and I were discussing previously about this topic and you had said, I'd really like to talk about peacemakers, my initial response was just like, oh, boy, this is going to be. This is going to be so hard. You kind of shared. Here's some thoughts. I have this, and my initial reaction was thinking about my clients. And it probably wasn't a very peaceful inner reaction. I immediately thought about my clients who I often see in my office, who struggle because they want to be peacemakers. They've been taught that they should be peacemakers. And for them, what they've learned about being a peacemaker oftentimes looks like rolling over. It often looks like being a doormat or being walked on or just being quiet and letting things happen, not addressing conflict. And so I love that. I love that we're going to talk about that. Peacemaking is absolutely not that.

Absolutely. Not only is it not that, but that's not peacemaking because that's not peace in self, that's betraying self.

Yeah.

So. So now we get into this dichotomy that people find themselves in. How do I bring up this issue conflictual that I know is going to bring up conflict, but if I don't, I'm going to be in distress. And to me, the absolute reality is, is if we ignore issues, we enable behaviors because we think we should roll over or not talk about it because we don't want to fight, that's exactly the opposite of what peacemakers do. Peacemakers bring to the attention unhealthy behaviors in loving and kind ways, and they have boundaries.

So can we, can we break that down a little bit more? Yes, you use that word, enabling. And I think it'd be really helpful to, for us to define what we mean when we're talking about enabling, because that's such a pivotal part of this discussion right here for Me, enabling is.

Glossing over issues that are destructive or hurtful to people, either me, to them, or to the relationship. So when I enable something, I allow it to continue when it is not healthy.

Oftentimes I believe that when we see enabling behaviors that show up for our clients or people we know in their relationships, oftentimes this is a learned response. Oftentimes this is a PTSD response. If I can just be compliant, if I can just meld in and not have something thrown at me or not be yelled at, that'll be so much better than being in an abusive situation. And so we may learn to be quiet, to hold back. And it's a protective. It's a protective tool. But when we're not confronting, it means that we're allowing those behaviors to continue.

If it is destructive and hurtful to me, my relationship, or other people. A peacemaker actually confronts the unhealthy behavior. I'm going to give an example. A child's at school, they're being bullied. The peacemaker calls out the bully and says, that's not appropriate. We don't do that in this school. That's the peacemaker. That's the peacemaker, the one who confronts the unhealthy to create the climate of peace in their school or peace in their home.

So, Dr. Skinner, I just. What you're saying, I completely agree with wholeheartedly and just want to pause for just a second because I think. I think that what you're saying flips and really goes against what we've often been taught about peacemaking, that it is just turning the other cheek or just like peace at all costs. And so what you're saying really flips that upside down and says, no, peacemaking is having a voice and saying, this isn't okay. This isn't healthy. You're talking about abusive situations.

Yes.

Are we defining it just to that, or are you saying this is generally, broadly, everywhere.

Unhealthy behaviors are unhealthy behaviors, and they hurt people. So I'll go to a scripture, holy writ, the Savior in the temple, when there's money. Changers were exchanging money in the temple. He came in and turned over their tables. The label that he is given is the money peacemaker. He confronted unhealthy behaviors because they were unhealthy. And so when we look at peacemaking, we're creating a standard, a higher standard of expectation. It's not okay to criticize, put down de mean, to belittle. It's not appropriate to hurt other people. Peacemakers have the capacity in a loving way. And people say, well, the Savior was angry. Whatever he was, he was confronting unhealthy behaviors. The same man who, when he's being crucified, asked for forgiveness for his crucifiers. So the peacemaker taught us a very valuable lesson. And if we really, really to pause on the life of him, it was. He brought a different way of thinking, revolutionizing it, because he wanted us to love our neighbors, to be the peacemakers. He wanted us to be meek and humble.

And yet he was a revolutionary.

He was. And he. They wouldn't have called him a peacemaker at the time. They would have called him a troublemaker. Yeah, but when we look at it in our own lives, it requires us to be in a place of understanding ourselves well enough to say, I'm going to be a peacemaker. I'm going to choose to create love. I'm going to choose to be a loving human being.

And I can do that by even confronting unhealthy situations.

I think especially when we do that because we're helping another person understand that what they're doing is hurting or harming people.

So, so let's talk about how to do that then. Can we talk about that? Yeah, how, how would you, how do we then say, okay, if this is a unhealthy situation, like you're talking about children on the playground, oftentimes adults, I think have a lot more. What's the word you use? Like, like hold you back, barrier. There you go. So I think adults oftentimes have a lot more barriers than children do. What? A child could say, oh, okay, I could go do that. Adults would say, oh, I can't do that. There's too much at stake. I have too much to lose. And so how do we do that as adults? Because we're not on the playground. We've got our boss or we've got co workers or we've got our community. So how do we do that?

Well, I think there's an important point and I'm going to go back to this. The peacemaker might actually have to start with peace and self. There are times where we have to remove ourself from environments because those environments hurt us too much. So I'm choosing to be a peacemaker in some environments because I'm choosing to leave the conflict. I'm choosing to not put myself in there because it destroys my peace. I can't find peace here. I can't. Now, contrasting that with a person who says, I want this interaction, I want my boss, I want to interact with you in a positive way. But what's occurring is not working right. And doing it in a kind and a caring way. And that communication can be done with love. It can be done appropriately, and it can be expressed with a belief in this other person. And that's where we fail as a culture, because we don't think that we can. That we can do confront with love.

So I didn't realize we were going to go here, but this is what I'm hearing you talk about are boundaries. These are for sure figuring out what. What I need. Like, this isn't safe when this happens. This isn't safe. And here's what I need. But if you're not willing to do that, here's what I will need to do.

That's right.

Which is, that's the formula for a boundary. Figuring out what our needs are and figuring out how to meet that need. And it might be that separating, that might be that stepping away. Because this is toxic. This is unhealthy. This doesn't help me have that alignment or that inner congruity that I need.

And. And let's now talk about it from receiving the boundary. How would a peacemaker receive a boundary? They would respect it. They would say, that is something that's important to you. Instead of becoming. I could go into shame. Oh, I've hurt you. I've. I've done something, and. And now I'm a bad person. No, what you're expressing in your boundary is this is how you want to live life. You want something different. To me, that is beautiful. If I could actually take that boundary and receive it as this matters to you. Imagine on that playground, that person who's being a bully realizing, oh, that's not okay behavior. And imagine even a few weeks later apologizing to the person that they were offending. We can live with a higher expectation and a higher standard. Society is only as good as we are in our relationships.

I heard somebody speak recently where they told a personal story. And they said that they had something about themselves that they had deep, deep shame about. And they got a nickname in elementary school. And one of the girls who gave him this nickname, they thought they were friends. And then they pointed out whatever this defect was, and they had so much deep shame about it. They said later on, when they were in middle school, there was this he. This person was on the football team. And the most popular kid was. Was there. And because they were on the football team, they ended up sitting together in one of the classes. And this kid always Thought, oh, man, I'm sitting here next to the most popular kid in the class. And he had a lot of shame, a lot of inferiority about it. And then he said that somebody in this popular group that that was surrounding them brought up that nickname again, somebody else. And he talked about just that, that deep, deep shame that just flowed over him. And then this most popular kid said, hey, leave him alone. He's all right. He's my friend. It changed. He talked about how that changed everything for him. He had run for a student body whatever, several times, and then he said fast forward and several. I don't know, just recently, it sounded like he had realized what an impact this person had on his life. It had changed his whole game. And he reached out.

Peacemaker.

Yes. But he reached out to this peacemaker, and he said, hey, I just wanted to. To connect with you. And he said that this guy had gotten his message and said, why would this guy who's like, who was the student body president, who was super successful, who did all these things, why would he want to talk to me? The peacemaker was questioning why this person whose life he had completely changed was with a simple sentence of leave him alone. He's. He's cool, he's good, completely changed his life. But I love how you're talking about that, him saying that confronting was him peacemaking, but that wouldn't be what traditionally that.

No, we would not think of that as the peace, not the label, because we're actually talking about healthy behavior. We need to teach to be respectful, to be kind, to be caring, to be loving. Peacemakers are not always going to sit down. Peacemakers are going to confront unhealthy because it's unhealthy, it's hurtful, it's harmful, it's painful. And. And so whether that's on the playground or in our marriages or with somebody at work, peacemakers create a place where unhealthy behaviors are confronted. And they don't have to do it in a critical way. They don't have to do it in a demeaning way. And that, to me, is the expression of what love can become.

Yeah, Isn't that example. Hey, he's cool.

Real simple.

2, 3 words flip this individual's life around completely. And I think our words really do matter because we are talking about that conflict or the confrontation. But also, I think there's so many times, especially in the holiday season, where there is loneliness and sadness and pain and a smile, just a kind gesture, just a couple of words of encouragement that's right. Those don't cost us anything. And they can be life changing, life saving for so many people.

I look at my daughters and I've. I've got seven daughters and a son. And one of my daughters, she is especially good at this. But she identifies something on everybody that she likes. It might be a blouse, it might be a skirt, it might be their haircut, it might be their shoes. It's something. And almost inevitably, you will hear her say something to the effect of, hey, I really like your hair today. That blouse looks really nice on you. Where did you get those shoes? Those are awesome. And it's amazing to me how many times I hear from others, your daughter is so sweet. Your daughter is so. It's that simple phrase. You finish the sentence. Because she's identifying people traits in people that she loves. Simple things. Or it might be an article of clothing, but she's identifying. That looks good on you. Peacemakers, they make the world a better place.

So where does your daughter learn that, Dr. Skinner? Is that something you feel like is just a natural gift and talent that she has, or is it something that you. That she's identified and developed?

I think she's identified and developed it because it's not. That's not. That's not her dad. And it's not. Not necessarily her mom, but she is that way. And. And again, I look to. The reality is, I look to my children at times when I say, where did they come from? Right. They are. I mean, they're just. They're better than their dad. They're right. I mean, they're just good. And I look at what they do. And when you lift people up, you get outcomes that are positive. And I've got a neighbor we used to live by, and she was just one of the most sweet, kind, tender ladies you'll ever meet. But you could do something, and that would be kind, or you. You interact with her, you would get a note in the next week or two from her. And it was just an expression of gratitude for a small conversation.

Just.

She identified the things that lifted people up. I think, about people like that, the peacemakers of this earth, they find a way to make people better around them.

And I think that part. I think that part's really important to this conversation. Because your neighbor, she has to be at peace within herself to. She has to slow down and take time to say, who.

That's right.

Who did something that I saw today? What did I see in someone else? She has to slow down and be in a place where she has that energy that she can put out.

Like it's a habit. It truly is. And once you start looking at that, you start looking for the good in people. And I think that's another trait of peacemakers. They look for the good and. And then. And they. They lift it up, they speak it up, they show it up. Right. You did something that was incredible today. Thank you.

So how would we put this into. Like, what are some simple ways maybe to bring this peacemaking in. Into our lives?

My most basic answer is to develop the habits and the traits of making the world a better place. Find a way to lift people up, look for opportunities. I had a neighbor, another neighbor. This guy was. I would call him. By definition, he is an act of service. If. I mean, if he had a middle name, his name would have been Max. Lift people up. Acts of service. Night, Max. Night. This guy, he went around and he just served people in our community. He was a mayor. He. I mean, he was just a guy that made the world a better place. One day I was having a situation where we were trying to put a microwave above our stove. And he was very familiar with the homes in our neighborhood because they were older homes, and he had done electrical work in probably half of them in a neighborhood of probably 80 homes. I mean, he. It was a World War II built community. And so he knew the homes inside and out. He owned a couple of them in the community. And so. Incredible guy. So I said, hey, I've got an electrical question for you. Could you just do me a favor? Could you just come look at this electrical? So he comes over, he says, yeah, we can wire it here. We can do this in about an hour and a half to time. He had that microwave up with electricity to it. I mean, it was phenomenal. So we get done. And I mean, I. If I had hired somebody for that. I mean, we were young in our lives, young children, finances were tight, and. And he said, no, I don't want any payment. And then he said, this is the quote. I can't imagine being in another place better than I was with you today. No other place I'd rather have been than with you helping. I mean, and it was so genuine. You didn't question. You're like, who is this guy? Right? But he. That's how he was. He was a walking, walking act of service.

Do you know what's interesting, Dr. Skinner? As I'm hearing you talk about that, I'm reflecting. Like, where have I seen things like that in my life? And I can come up with two or three that just pop up just right there. I'd love to invite our listeners to take a minute just to slow down and think about for yourselves. When have you seen some, when has someone served you that it's been meaningful? Because I'm going to guess that Max Knight, he may or may not remember that hour and a half that he spent with you. That was part of who he was, how he lived, but you remember it and it was significant.

That's right. That's right.

And so I'd love to invite our listeners to take a moment even to consider jotting down and even reaching out to that person and saying, hey, thank you. Yeah, I want you to know 20 years later, 10 years later, five weeks later, I am so grateful. This is, might not be something you remember, but this has impacted me.

That's right.

I'm really grateful.

I. Yeah, yeah. And so expression of gratitude, that's another way to lift people up. I mean it's not just acts, but lifting, lifting people up by saying the kind things.

And I think when we're doing, we haven't specifically been speaking about gratitude, but going back to that initial question, how do we find peace within ourselves? I think it is when we slow down and we, we look out by looking and saying, where have I been blessed? What am I grateful for? What is the good in my life when I start to see that good? You were talking earlier, you specifically about looking for the good. When we start to look for the good, we all have challenges and burdens. They're always there. But looking for the good can also help balance. That's right, we can often get a little lopsided maybe when things feel like they're so bad and there's no good looking for that good. So it might not be today, right now, the second, but I can go back and say, where has it been good? What have I seen? What has been impactful for me?

I find it interesting. Dr. Martin Seligman, in his book Authentic Happiness and in his follow up books, a book called Flourish, I just really, it stands out to me that people who identify things that they're grateful for have better levels of happiness or higher levels of happiness, I might say, just by identifying what they're grateful for, not just what they're grateful for, but why they're grateful for it. And I think that ties perfectly into being at peace. When I look for good, when I find things that I'm grateful for, I genuinely am a happier person. And, and I, and I begin to be grateful for the things that are around me, including the people that are around me. And so I think a level of gratitude for people and the influence they've had on our life. And we might have frustration with people, but even the people we have frust with, we can find. We can find good things that they have done and brought into our lives.

So, Dr. Skinner, you know, as we talk, sometimes I'll have thoughts that kind of bounce in my head, and I think. I don't know if I really should share that. But as we're talking about peacemakers, I've been thinking about who. Who have been some of the peacemakers in my life. And I'm going to invite. You know, depending on the age of our listeners, I think this probably will apply for many of them. But when I think of peacemakers, I think of Mr. Roger and Mr. Rogers. You know, he. His show began very simply, and it was during the Cold War, where there was a lot of distrust, where there was a lot going on. And the thing that I love about Mr. Rogers, part of his mission was talking about conflict, teaching children about hard, difficult concepts that most people probably didn't have a lot of words for, and teaching us, you know, to be kind. And if you're listening and you're hearing the theme of Mr. Rogers float through your brain, I don't know if that's good or bad, but you're welcome. But really looking at how our lives have influenced. Been influenced and changed by the people who bring peace, also with talking about and addressing really hard things, things that need to change, things that we need to understand or that we need to begin having conversations about.

Yeah, I love the example. I grew up with Mr. Rogers as he was changing his shoes, his voice and his stories. I remember that as a little boy. But. But what's interesting there is he would be. He would be somebody that people would look to, right? When we look at life, we can almost always identify people who are peacemakers. And the question is, why can't that be us? Why can't we be the people who help the world be a better place?

So let's break that down into a bite. Sizable. I think it can be me today, in the next hour, in the next minute. And it doesn't have to be hard. It can be a very simple. I think when we open our minds and say, let me look for the opportunities, suddenly they will be there, and I can miss them. And for me, oftentimes, you know, it's that thought, like, reach out to somebody, send them a text, tell somebody, like, you looked so great today. You did a good job with that.

And sometimes the peacemaker is the one who's been in conflict, and they choose to let the conflict move through them to the point where they're not carrying the angst and the anger and the hatred for whatever the experience has been. And the peacemaker is a person who chooses to let things move through them. Not that they're not hurt, but they choose not to carry the anger and animosity that they've had for years. Sometimes it's having to forgive a family member, and I use forgiveness very carefully here. They choose to accept that it occurred, and they choose not to maintain the angst and the internal anger that they felt for years towards a person.

And. And that's something that I think is a process because it's about that inner alignment.

That's right.

I. This isn't specifically about forgiveness, but I know while I was in grad school, there were a lot of things that really pushed up against what I believed, what I thought, what I felt, what I'd learned. And I remember turning to a friend who was very aligned with my thinking when something was said and said I was like, how. How can you just be quiet and not say something about this? And she. She looked at me and just said, marianne, yeah, they're just really misinformed. And I was like, what? She just let it flow past her and said, yep, they're just really misinformed. For her at that moment, she. She was like, there's not a reason for me to jump in there and tell them that they're wrong. It wasn't something worth confronting. It was some. And so I think there's also a balance of. Of really looking at what can I let go of, what do I need to jump in? And if there's unhealthy behaviors or abuse. Absolutely. Like, as we talked about before, but there are some things that we can let go and say, wow, that's sad that they see it that way.

That's right.

But it's not my job necessarily to police their thoughts.

And so sometimes we do need to confront, and sometimes we need to let it go. And that's a self awareness of, does this really matter, or can I let it go? That that's self discernment, and that's a really interesting place. Yeah, we all have to get to. All right, Marianne, as we get ready to close up today, I want to just share one other part about peacemakers. Peacemakers have something inside of them that we all need, and that is an internal belief in self, that we can do it, that we can align, that we can be kind and caring and have boundaries. It's not either or. And in truth, peacemakers have a self sense of who they are. They know who they are. And I, so I come back full circle. Peacemakers have to know who they are.

And, you know, if I can add on to that, I think when we look at our younger selves, I think when we look at children, because as I'm hearing you say, I'm like, where do I find that internal. Where do I find that internal belief in myself? And I think children have that. Most children, when they're young, they're happy to help, they want to help. They're happy. They're given. They're giving. They're open. They can say, I'm sorry, or they can, you know, have somebody hurt them and say, okay, we're okay, and keep playing together. And then as we grow, we develop beliefs or constructs to keep ourselves safe, and we struggle. But I think going back to that becoming as a child, because children, most children, you know, they're not upset about having a tantrum on the floor at the grocery store because they didn't get a sucker. That is a full internal belief in their self because they know what they want or need. They don't want the nap or they do, you know, whatever. They're usually coming from a very authentic place. I. I love the idea of becoming as a child. To find that looking back and saying, if I didn't have any fears about how others would perceive me or how they would judge me or how they might reject or abandon me, how would I act in my most true self?

Yeah.

In this moment. And it would usually be kind and loving and forgiving and genuine.

All right, well, any final thoughts before we close up shop today?

I think that this is such a beautiful season to slow down and to really take stock of. Is this how I want to be? Is this where I want to be? And slowing down and just looking out, looking at the people around us and showing kindness and compassion, looking for the opportunities where I can create peace and create deeper connection and meaning with. With others. So not just today, but moving forward.

Awesome. All right, to our listeners. Marianne, thank you so much. My final thoughts are this. It's the season that we celebrate a beautiful thing. And one of the best things that we celebrate, whether we're Christians or not, is a birth of a person who changed the history of mankind, who's. Whose name is the peacemaker. So my invitation to our listeners today is we can be peacemakers. Choose to be a peacemaker. Choose to be a person that makes the world a better place and be that peacemaker. And again, sometimes that peacemaker confronts unhealthy behaviors. But we can do so with power and strength by teaching correct principles. So the world learns to be kind and caring, more compassionate, more willing to lift others up. So my invitation to you is to be a peacemaker. That's my goal. One of the things that I'm going to choose to do in the year 25 is be a person who makes the world a better place by creating a place of peace. So that's my invitation to you, our listeners. Be a peacemaker and have a great holiday season. May you be blessed. And thanks for your time and listening to our podcast. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Smile when you smile and laugh when.

You laugh something surround you it's like you're shining you're staring.