Facing the Fear of Intimacy: Understanding and Overcoming the Barriers to Connection (Episode #30)

Something about you that I can't help but smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh.

Welcome to the Human intimacy podcast. I'm Dr. Kevin Skinner with my friend and colleague, co host, Amy Andrus. Amy, how are you today?

I'm especially grateful. I'm feeling very grateful today. And just before we begin, I want to just speak to how inspired I feel hearing from those of you who are listening to the podcast and taking the time to listen and then talk about it. It's very inspiring. And just thank you for listening and thank you for having me be part of this conversation.

Dr. Skinner, you know I'm always grateful to have you. I also have Marianne on periodically, and it was just absolutely delightful. But this week I just got a bad 10,000 downloads. So we've had 10,000 downloads in the first. We start in February on Valentine's Day. And so the Human Intimacy Podcast just hit our 10,000th download. So thank you to. Thank you to our listeners. We are. We're getting good feedback. I was just talking with a guy last week and he said, thank you so much. This podcast is really helping me understand some concepts. So anyway, just shout out to our listeners, thank you. Please share with your friends, family. And today our topic is. Is maybe the fear of intimacy. Right. It's a Human Intimacy podcast. I want to look at the other side of it today with you, Amy. It's the individuals who maybe we long for connection. We long for that bond, and yet underneath are these underlying fears or unresolved fears. So we approach relationships with maybe a fear of failure. I'm not. We're not going to make it. And, and so I want to address individuals who want and long for the attachment, the intimacy, but they're afraid. And. And let's define intimacy as. As I often do, intimacy not being sex, intimacy being just human connection in. To me, see.

Yeah. And. And to a greater or less degree, I think that. I think we're. I think that intel. I think that we're talking to all of us. I think we all have to greater and lesser degrees of that. That fear of we. We want so desperately to have connection with others, and yet I think. I think we all have some. Some fear in that.

I think so. And I. I might call those our blind spots, right? The. The things that we don't necessarily recognize because we're living life like we normally do, but we don't realize maybe we're holding back from a conversation or we're not allowing ourselves to share something that we're scared to share because Maybe our partner or others are going to reject it, or maybe it's. We're afraid to go out into public situations and maybe take a risk. If I was dating, for example, maybe the fear is, is that maybe I'll be rejected or, you know, I won't. I won't fit in somewhere. And so this fear can come across in multiple relationships, not just our primary relationships. It can inhibit us in connecting with people in general.

I mean, all of us have that desire to feel that sense of belonging, you know, whether it's. It's at church, in your neighborhood, in your relationships. But we all, at work, we all have that general sense of wanting, that feeling of belonging and to. And to have that connection. And, you know, in doing this work, I. I realized that. Think we're all. I don't know, I think we all have that desire and we're all a little bit afraid of that.

Yeah, I. No question about it. So if we all have it, then maybe the underlying question is, is what do we do if we have it? And maybe if I don't recognize it, how can I recognize my blind spots? So I want to address those today. Let's start off with the blind spots, maybe the things that we don't see. And I would actually probably go back to my childhood or our childhood and looking at how we approached relationships from very early on in our life. So if you wanted to do a self evaluation, you'd probably go back and say, okay, what was I like when I was really young? Let's go back to kindergarten years and even those developmentally important years. How did I see friends, relationships? How did I interact with them? Was I. Did I hold back? Was I shy? Was I reserved? Even there we can talk about this fear of maybe I don't fit or maybe I don't belong. Right?

And. And then if we look at, you know, I was in. I was. I seemed to be outgoing as a child, but then I got quite. It's. It's those messages of what experiences did we have that then shape the way we're showing that we show up in the world and our relationships.

Right. And so those blind spots can actually be determined by how you see people in general.

Right. And.

And if I don't trust people, if I don't like people, and I've heard people say, I just don't like other people. They just hurt people. And. And so I just don't like people either. And yet at the same time, most of them are looking for somebody, some comfort. They're looking for those Relationships. And so what usually happens is we don't see our personal approach to relationships because we've got our own stuff and our own stuff that has not even, you know, been with us for 15 or 20 years, but it's still influencing our lives.

Right, right. And those blind spots we don't even recognize. And so first, even examining am I afraid of, of, of connecting with people and even looking at that blind spot, what is it? Am I safe with family? Is it friends who examining that fear?

You know, and I want to just give an example of that. I was talking with somebody a few days ago and this individual, as we were talking, he had, he'd been lied to in his most important relationships. Everything from parents. Both mom and dad had been in relationships with some girls. They too had been unfaithful and cheated in some way. And now he's in a committed relationship and he doesn't trust. Right. I mean he walks around in public and he's afraid that somebody's going to steal away his girl.

And I really appreciate that you're using a male in this situation because I think so often, you know, we just speak to the women, but we have a lot of men in that situation too and it's based on, you know, what are their experiences.

Well, and then that's just, I mean I've seen many men in situations like that. I mean we could go any direction, but we walk around with our fears and there's a reason why we walk around with those fears. And usually it's some, something or some events in our past that influence how we approach relationships today. And so those blind spots that I'm referring to, they're the wounds that have not been addressed. Referring to the zeigarnic effect that we've talked about in the past, the unresolved comes back to bite us in the butt. Well, again, if those are there, then I can approach relationships from a fear based perspective. I'm going to get hurt somehow. I'm going to do something wrong, I'm going to be rejected. And at the end of the day then I hold back and, and in some, what we call a projection, I project onto this person my fears.

Right. And then we have that self fulfilling prophecy that if, if I'm, if I'm, if people are going to hurt me, then what do we do? We self protect. And then what tends to happen, we distance and then we end up being hurt out of that space of trying to self protect. Right.

Yeah. And so to our listeners, I again, I'm going to invite you to do some self reflection here. Right. Are you holding back from others because of your own fears? And can you even identify the fears, the voice of your fears or not?

And I love that self reflective question of when did I first start feeling this way? Really examining that wound.

Yeah. And, and again, you might be surprised, it may have been an event that occurred in your early childhood. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. It could be being bullied on, a play around.

Oh gosh. And, and we hear that one really common, I think when we work especially with those who have addiction, how often is there bullying? That's very common.

That's right. That's right. And, and so again, I don't know your specific experience to our listeners, but I do know that if you have a fear, it really is insightful when you do that kind of work and you look at your story, your personal story, what I refer to as key life events. And when we look at our key life events, we often give tremendous insight into events or experiences that have held us back or are holding us back in our current relationships.

Yes, I, I, I love that. When, when did I first start feeling this way? And then conversely, you know, with whom did I feel safe? With whom did I contrasting that, when did I feel that I needed to, to be fearful or be protected? But then who did I feel safe with?

And that idea of who did I feel safe with? When we, you and I both have met with individuals that there isn't somebody that they have felt safe with. So when you ask the question who would be a nurturer or somebody who's maybe a caregiver, somebody who's taking care of you and somebody you could turn to emotionally. And they shake their heads, you know, they start crying. I, I can't think of anybody. Well, of course if you can't think of anybody, you would have a fear of intimacy, a fear of being seen because nobody's really spent time to see you.

Right. And that's when those moments, I think that always kind of breaks our heart when we, when we ask that question and you know, the tears come and it's I, I haven't, I haven't had someone or then it's, well, I had, you know, a grandma. And they, then they recognize with whom did I feel safe? And, and then what's my earliest time that I, that I didn't feel safe with others? And that fear of being close, examining those wounds.

So, so maybe if we can just put this in a kind of a sequence or an order if you want to do some self work and identify maybe those blind spots or those places. Go back and look at your story. Look at the memories, what we would call the key life. Explore them. Now, sometimes they may be so painful or traumatic that it would really be helpful to have a therapist to talk to because again, these are, sometimes they're very difficult experiences that are preventing you from having connections because of the fears of being hurt.

Absolutely. And I think it's also helpful to walk, walk through those key life events with a therapist to be able to identify the patterns and the different ways that it's. Oh, so you are, you know, having someone who doesn't have the blind spots be able to, just to, to see that connection of. So you're showing up now how you did when you were, you know, at this age and being able to help you make those connections.

Yeah. So maybe it's that first step. Let's look at those key life events, get some personal insight. Now let's transition for a second, Amy, to okay, I have these fears. What do I do with them? Because they're holding me back and in some cases they're ruining my relationship because I get close enough to people and then I pull back because I don't want to be hurt. I don't, I don't dare take those kind of risks because of those fears.

And that's where, you know, coming full circle with how I said I, I feel, I feel so inspired working with individuals who are willing to first speak to I am afraid and help me be able to identify some steps that I, that I want to take in order, in order to take that step to. This is painful, that I feel lonely and I, I recognize I don't want to feel, I don't want to feel this way, but I'm terrified to take.

That step, you know, and that step sometimes requires and often requires in intimacy the, the concept of being vulnerable.

Oh, always. Doesn't it?

Right. Allowing ourselves to, to speak up, to show up, to express our fears or worries or concerns. But we then also have to know who is safe.

Right, right. And, and that's where just even recognizing, coming to see a therapist is vulnerable. Then speaking it, you know, with a therapist and then saying, I don't know. I don't know who I can share this with. And because that vulnerability is. It is critical that we don't just dive in and share with anyone.

Because that's right.

Because how many, I mean, how many people really, then. Then you dive into the vulnerability and you share something that another person doesn't Know what to do with it, and then you have more hurt.

Yeah, so exactly what you're saying. A few years ago, I added a question to the assessment. So I've been gathering research for years on individuals who've experienced infidelity and sexual betrayal. And I, I did. The research I did was really exploring how people responded to you if you did reach out for support. And, and interestingly enough, that it was, you know, not well at all, all the way to very supportive. And over 50% of people said it was somewhat helpful, but most people. So from somewhat helpful all the way down to it was not helpful at all. Most of people saying it wasn't helpful at all.

Well, because other people don't know what to do with it. And so then they, out of their own discomfort, they just say something and they don't know what to do with it. You know, a challenge that, that I had was, you know, finding out that my youngest child had down syndrome. And other people, they weren't. You know, people would say, say comments like, I always prayed I would have a daughter with. I would have a child with down syndrome. And people would just say things to try. They, but they weren't trying to intentionally hurt or harm. But out of not knowing how to respond, they would say. A lot of people would say really awkward things, you know, or so I, I think knowing, you know, how, how do you know who is safe for you to share difficult thing, difficult feelings with? And that's where this is the power of group therapy for me. Working, working with group and, and working with women and men and, and having them be vulnerable to sit with others, but then to also kind of dip their toe into that vulnerability and be able to hear someone else say something that strikes a chord then within you. And then you, you already, you already kind of know that safety is there because they've already expressed something similar. And then you can add to it. And then you're practicing that, that intimacy and stepping into that in a very gradual way.

And that's. That's exactly right. And, and interestingly enough, we were just talking about that with a group that I just started or, you know, I had a group of, of people that I've been working with. And it's so interesting we added a couple of other individuals to this group and, you know, do I fit? Where do I fit? And yet it's so interesting as they start to merge together, so to speak, and they realize that it's okay to be vulnerable. There is such a power in being able to give a voice to my internal sufferings. And yet I think so often we maybe hide in isolation because we don't want to be judged. We don't want people to reject us because maybe that's what we're used to.

Or we have tried to share, as you were sharing the example and, and then it was met with, you know, like the example I always wanted. We're met with something where then it reinforces, okay, it's not safe to share. But group therapy, I love group for that reason that we don't even all have to have the same experience because really all of our experiences are different. But really being able to connect to the emotion underneath the experience and you feel that and then you feel that, that connection and you're pract that vulnerability just a little bit at a time. And it's so powerful.

Yeah. And that bears. That's borne out in the research. It's just. There is just a reality of when we, I call it suffering in silence. When we suffer in silence, what we don't realize is there are other people. There are other people who not only understand, they've been through it and maybe they've already crossed over some of the elements of that bridge and they've done some things that have helped them that they then share with you. And what. That's one of the things that I found the power in a group when somebody says, you know, I was in a situation, here's what I discovered, or here's what I learned. It's almost like this, this lifeline of, wait a second, I'm not alone, I feel understood and that person's been through it and look what they did and look at how they're doing.

Right. Then there's a hope there. So there's also that it's not just me. And you feel that sense of, you know, we all have that feeling of wanting to belong. We all have that feeling of, of feeling left out. We all have that feeling of feeling afraid. And then also. So first it's not just me, but then secondly, okay, you have done this, that means I can do it. Gives you that hope that then I can too, Right?

That's exactly right. And then if I take it even a step further, then as we start to create, I'm going to call it a community. I feel comfortable sharing things that maybe I haven't shared with others in the past. And again, it's kind of like this growth thing. I maybe compound interest in a positive way where it just, it just starts to grow because now we have a community and I actually look forward to this group, these connections, because it's the one time in the week, and this is the thing we often hear. I, I, it's the one time in the week where I feel like I can just be myself, let everything down, because normally I'm, I'm bottled up, covering things up, and I'm isolated and I don't know who to turn to. The power, oh, it's just incredible.

It, it is, it is, it is so profound. And there is this then ripple effect that, because then you're practicing this in a group, you are practicing that, you know, dipping your toe into vulnerability and then having, you know, practicing that on a weekly basis. And then there is that ripple effect of, you know what? I, it changed the way that I started talking with my sisters, with my family, with my it because you're gaining that confidence as you're practicing it. And so. Right.

No, that's exactly right. Because I, that reminds me of a story a few years ago, really difficult story, but an individual came to me and, and you know, that trust is, is being earned when they share things with you that they've never shared with anybody else. And this individual shared just a very painful childhood experience to childhood memory, first time ever talking about it. And interestingly enough, I knew that again, when people carry things for 10, 20, 30 years, you know, that, that, that it's been bothering them, eating them up, influencing. But this individual had been depressed and, and after she shared with me her early life experiences over the next few weeks, what was fascinating is the depressive symptoms that she had been experiencing. She came in and literally, if you would have watched and seen her body, it was a different body when she came into my session, but it didn't even stop there. During the next few weeks, she talked with her mom, she talked with her sister and, and felt validation and because she was willing to be vulnerable and, and let out that internalized suffering that, that she was so afraid that her family wouldn't respond well to. Not only did they respond well, but they were so loving and kind and nurturing it. Literally. If you could have seen the demeanor from, from time A to time B, you might not have even recognized her.

And, and we get to see that right when we can see that, that heaviness, them letting go of that heaviness and sharing. And every time then you do go back and it is so, that's why it is so. It is inspiring to work with individuals willing to go back and face their painful events. But every time then it's shared You. You can. And you notice that lightning.

That's exactly right. So I. I want to take it a little bit further here for a second because I know that some of our listeners are saying, yeah, but I don't have anybody. And a group is a little bit, you know, I'm a little bit. That may be too hard right now. So what do you recommend I do? If I don't. I'm afraid to go into a group right now, and I really don't have anybody. What are some of your initial thoughts on the individual who's like, I'm not ready for a group, but I don't have anybody. Where would you go with them?

That's, as you were saying. First, getting curious about. About the pain. And I think if you're even drawn to listening to the podcast about intimacy, you're really craving it, as we all are. So even recognizing, you know, what are. What. When did I first start feeling this way and being curious to. To. To what you are feeling, what are my thoughts, what am I afraid of? And examining those fears.

That's a great starting point, you know. Yeah, yeah. And. And I think if we start getting that kind of curious, my next step to what you just said is, now I'm curious and I'm asking those kind of questions. Get out a piece of paper and a pen and put it to paper. That's like taking what's coming through your mind and really enhancing it by putting it on paper. I've seen people gain tremendous insight by being willing to put it on paper. That too, is a form of vulnerability and can really accelerate that insight that we need to overcome our fears.

That reminds me, putting it on paper. I had a client, it's been now 10 years ago, and she would write down every time she had a critical voice come up, and she would rip it off and she would just stuff it in. Stuff it in her bra. And then at the end of the day, it sounds. But then she would pull it out. And first she started. She was paying attention to and recognizing when that critical voice, when those fears crept up to be aware of it. And she was. She was too fearful of. Of doing a group. Then we were doing individual work, and her pain had gone back to where she was a little girl. And first it was. You came in, and she was courageous to come in and speak to that pain. But then it was also having her pay attention to how frequently that critical voice was creeping up and jotting it down. And she said, you know, I didn't even notice how much I Was how, how, how prevalent those. And she had been betrayed and she and her husband are in a great place now. And she actually ended up, you'll think, becoming. You will love this. She ended up becoming certified in Kristen Neff's self compassion work.

Love it.

Love it. It started from her identifying how frequently that critical voice was, was, was creeping up.

Well, and let's just go with that one for a second because I really think that critical voice is one reason why we're afraid too. Because we open up because we're afraid that other people will see into our world and, and, and think, boy, what is going on with you? You're a mess. And yet when maybe one of the more powerful ways that we do this, it's a statement. Would you talk to others, your best friends, the way you're talking to yourself?

And that's Kristen Neff or I know you know, you've talked about Kristen Neff. But that self compassion. And when we ask that question, we would never speak to somebody else, anybody else the way. I mean, maybe not, but I hope not the way that. That's right, elves, right?

Yeah. And again, Kristen Neff's work, self compassion, she really emphasizes. I mean, look, if you're going to help yourself, it starts there. In fact, it's harder to have compassion for others when you're not having self compassion. So I, again, maybe one of these powerful ways to get through this is you need to develop self compassion because then you don't have a fear of intimacy. Because if we really break it down, fear of intimacy is a fear of being seen. I don't want, I don't dare be seen because I've got this issue or I've got this struggle or others have judged me. And that's probably the biggest burden of being bullied or being abused or being hurt in some way. Because you come to a conclusion. And this is really what I think the crux of our fears are, is we come to a conclusion that there's something inherently flawed or wrong with us. And once we get to that point, then I, of course, I don't want to be seen because I'm unlovable, I'm a failure, I'm ugly, I'm not whatever, enough.

Right.

And so then the fear of intimacy is I don't want people to see me because I've got these problems, addictions, whatever it may be. I don't want anybody to know.

Right.

And then when I do open up and I realize I'm not alone. Wow. That in some moments people are Just in awe that they're not the only one who's dealing with such issues.

Right, right. And, and it isn't, you know, it's, it's not just, it's not just me. It's, you know, when we're in a group and it's who in this, who has ever felt left out, who has ever felt like they don't belong and it's, it's, it's all of us. And you speak to that and it is just, it is really powerful. I keep going back to group, but for this individual, it was first she was brave to, to step into her pain and then she started writing down the experiences. Right. And so jotting it down, that critical voice and paying attention to it. Yeah.

All right, so let me, let me get ready to close out today because I want, I want to take this one just a little bit, tweak it just a little bit for a second. To our listeners, if you find that human connection, human intimacy, if you find that fears, and you may not be using the word fear, but you're scared or worried or anxious or jealous that somebody's going to hurt you or lonely. Right. If those are things running through your mind, that can be what we were labeling bigger picture here, the fear of intimacy. And it can happen at any phase of life from childhood into marriage, into I've been divorced and now I've got different fears than I had before I was ever married. And so it, this is a lifelong.

Challenge because motherhood and all different phases across the lifespan, right?

Yeah. Because the fear is others are going to see me and if I'm inadequate as a mother or I'm inadequate as parent or a father, if I'm inadequate, then I've come to this conclusion that I'm not, I'm not. Right. I'm not as good as others. That's why self compassion is absolutely so essential to, to really health and well being. Because right now we're talking about how to be healthy human beings and we can't be healthy when we've got these core root beliefs driving our day to day thinking patterns.

Right. So going back to starting small, how, how do, how do, how do we start small?

I, I think it's really understanding and giving a voice like you said, to our fears and I think writing those down, talking with a therapist and, and then working our way. If you're already in a group, you're already doing some of these things. But again, the goal should be I want to be the healthiest human being that I can possibly be. I want healthy connections. I want healthy relationships, and I don't want to settle for mediocrity. I don't want to settle just to go through the motions. I want to have relationships that are meaningful, connected, bring joy and happiness, and I don't want to live in this place of fear. And that gets me to one other thing, and that's to our listeners who are in relationships where your partner's actions trigger fear because they're not consistent, they're not faithful, they're not whatever, and they create it in situations like that. The fear of intimacy is not necessarily I don't want to be seen. It's I don't want to connect with you because you hurt me.

Right.

And that's a different population because we're talking to individuals whose fear of intimacy it's with a specific person or group because those individuals are not safe.

Right.

And that's appropriate boundary to say, I don't want to connect because I don't feel safe. Going back to the fundamental principle of all human connection is we don't connect if we don't feel safe. Final thoughts. Amy, before we get ready to close up shop.

Oh, goodness. I just applaud you for listening to the podcast and for going on the journey of wanting to be your very best self in the most connected way with. With yourself in relationships. Because really, we want to be more than just surviving. We really want to be happy and joyful and to have peace. And that, my belief is that really does come from our connection with. With others and our relationships. And so just really encourage you to. To take the journey of looking, examining your fears of connecting and then identifying that and start moving toward it in small. Just in small steps.

Yeah, awesome. And I. My final thoughts would be this. You know, we live in a time where there is a lot of worry and a lot of fear and a lot of anxieties. So a fear of intimacy would just make sense just because we're so afraid of being hurt or in being in relationships where we could be hurt, and yet it's not what we're designed for. We're designed for attachment. We're designed for connection. And so my. My final thoughts are do some self introspection like we've talked about, and then find your people, the people who are safe. Because if you feel safe with at least one person, then with that one person. I don't have a fear of being seen or a fear of intimacy. I'm actually confident in your presence. Find that in your life and find that person. It may take you time, but if you'll put in that effort, I guarantee you, you'll feel less lonely, less fears. And then what you begin to realize is it's not just this one person. This person's also safe, and that person's also safe. And now you're finding your tribe.

Yeah.

All right. To our listeners, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast and part of the 10,000 downloads we've had. We invite you to continue joining us each week as we share, really, my biggest desire is the. The concepts that help us overcome our fears so we can form deep human intimacy in our lives. Thank you so much. And, Amy, always a pleasure to be with you.

Thank you.