How to Create a Tech Plan So you Stop Fighting with your Kids

Foreign. Welcome to Finding Noble, a podcast where we climb into the world of young people's mental health and where we provide support for the adults who support them. I'm your host, Carly Red.

All right, Good to be with you, Carly.

How are you doing today, Dr. Skinner?

It's a lovely day.

Well, our topic today we are calling Connected and in Control. Creating a Healthy Family Technology Plan, which is something not only every parent, but probably every human living in the year 2023 and moving forward, can learn about. But as I see it, our aim and our desire, our work is to help children thrive who live to experience all the manifold layers of what it means to be alive, to be connected with themselves and others around them, to learn how to respect themselves and others, to be self reliant and responsible and make good choices as they grow into functioning and happy adults. And for me, living in a world with technology feels like a massive hindrance to what we are aiming for. And I. I'm not alone in this. I know, but I am getting more used to its inevitability and future permanence in our lives. I know it's not going away. So let's talk about learning how to be connected still and in control, not be controlled by technology. And I'm going to ask you, Dr. Skinner, is there a way to do this?

I've thought a lot about this because I saw Cal Newport, he wrote a book called Digital Minimalism. Interesting read, but he suggested that the average adult checks their phone 39 times a day. So if you think 39 times a day, how much time did you spend in one of those episodes? You start to look at the math and you're fortunately, your phone will probably tell you how much you're using your phone and how much time you're spending every day. But I think we're living in a society today where it's here and we have to be prepared and live more intentionally. And I think that if there's one theme I hope to get across today is that we're much more intentional after this than we have been before. Because if we're not intentional, I think it actually consumes us rather than us consuming it.

Yeah, I like that implicit in this episode title, Creating a Healthy Technology Plan. Plan means intentional preparation. Once you're talking about purposeful parenting. And I feel like what we have been talking about in our podcast thus far, and it often comes back to this idea of getting in front of things, kind of the front work rather than being almost like a poop or scoop of parent where we go behind desperately trying to clean up all the yucky, crappy problems that are happening. But this is more work at the beginning, less work after.

Yeah, and I think that's a great point because we live at this time where, at least when I was growing up, I mean, there was call waiting on our phones. And when I really. When I was really young, we shared a phone line with multiple of our neighbors in a rural Idaho community. I mean, it's such a different place from where I grew up to where I'm at now. It's just not in the same world. And so if we're not prepared, our children's understanding of. Of technology, it's already way advanced. But if we're not aware ourselves, it can create problems because our children can consume things that we may not even be aware that exist.

Exactly. I think that's part of the challenge, is that there's a divide and also a. A disconnect with what we've experienced as parents to what our children are currently experiencing. And yeah, I hear you saying education, you know, for a parent to be in the know is vital.

Well, and let's talk a little bit about that. What does that even look like? How do you educate yourself about what's there? And part of it is, as a parent, you have to spend some time figuring out what these electronic devices do and also understanding how they influence our mental health. And this is something that I don't think that we were prepared for as a society, which a few states, including the one where we live here in Utah recently have a caution. The Attorney General is basically saying, you know, cell phone usage, app usage, they could actually be harmful for your health. That's a pretty profound statement coming from our government saying, you gotta be careful in how you consume and use these devices.

Yeah. I imagine that we will look back on these decades where smartphones first came into existence as the years of great learning and understanding. Kind of like we're the test dummies. And that means that we learn more as we go and hopefully we will do better when we know better. But as for now, it feels kind of walking through the dark, trying to figure out healthy ways to use technology in our homes and how to use them to connect, because it does feel like the lane that our kids connect through now is through technology. And it's important to note that adolescent peer groups and relationships developed during those years are actually vital to cognitive, emotional, and social development. And so when we are talking about them being on screens a vast amount of their time, I think we as parents sometimes think, oh, they're addicted to their screenshots, which I think may be oversimplifying a little bit. I, I listened to this wonderful book. It's called welcome to your teenager's brain. It's from Abigail Baird. She's a professor at Vassar College, and she studies and examines the brain and behavioral basis of adolescent development. But she says, are they addicted to the screen or are they, like every other generation before them, addicted to their social world? Or is this just a new twist on adolescent development where a huge portion of social interactions have become digitized adolescents? Being hyper focused on building and maintaining peer relationships is not anything new. That was really insightful to me as a parent to think, this isn't necessarily my child, you know, always wanting to rush home and look at her iPad that we have in our kitchen and all her friends texted and everything. And I always am like, oh man, she's a data to her iPad. But really it's probably more than she is very focused on friends and peer relationships, which are actually vital to her development.

I think that's a really good point because your, your daughter is an example here. She is looking for social connection. And in today's world, technology is how our children are connecting. Again. As parents, we would pick up a phone or we would go be in person. Today, they're interacting multiple times throughout the day, having social experiences through their devices. So as parents, I think we also have to understand it's not, it's not all bad. In fact, in some ways it can be good that they can support each other. It's when it shifts from it being a healthy thing to it's really turning unhealthy. Being bullied, being criticized. When I'm spending time emotionally numbing out, just wasting time. Those are the times where it actually then has a deleterious or negative effect on our children.

I kind of like this idea of doing a check in almost with our kids and ourselves, even on how these virtual interactions are either helping or hurting. You know, is this helping me or my child connect better? Is this helping us form healthy relationships or is it hurting relationships? Is it hindering our ability to connect and pulling us away from real opportunities to have deeper and more meaningful relationships. I also like this idea of having varying levels. Number one, being in person, face to face interaction and then virtually face to face. Maybe it looks like FaceTime or Marco Polo. You still can see their face, hear their voice as more connective. And then next comes ear to ear where you're talking on a telephone, you can hear tonal fluctuations and really understand the emotion of what they're saying through their voice. And then I think we would all agree that texting is probably the least connected of all experiences. Maybe social media is even below that. But where it's the least accurate mode of expression and you're least able to develop intimate and real meaningful connection. I don't know if you agree with that, Dr. Skinner.

No, I do. I mean, the technology today, there's such a wide variety. You talk everything from Marco Polo to texting to actually being with somebody. They're very different experiences. So I think what we're coming to, the awareness is we have to figure out how to effectively adapt to the technology and stay connected and help our children do the same. Let me give an example of that. We know that today's children are more anxious the more time they spend on their devices. There's a great research article by Dr. Jean Twaney. She's written a book called Igen where she shows the support that says that our anxiety in our youth is largely tied to. To consuming apps and so forth without intention. It's just mindlessly doing things or looking for how many people liked what I said or the picture I posted on Instagram. And so now we're looking for this kind of attention and when we don't get it or we get, you know, some ridicule, that can be a direct hit on our self confidence and self worth. So I think part of this is intentional consumption with guidance of what we're trying to do with these devices. Are we trying to connect? Are we communicating? What is the purpose of this time that we're spending on these devices? I think that's just better living.

I agree that a lot of this aimless wandering is also not necessarily our fault or our children's fault, that there's a science behind keeping us glued to our devices. You know, we talk about the Infinity scroll that is just keeps you locked in and that it's preying upon parts of our brain that feel good as we're doing it. And so if we become. I like this idea of awareness where if we become more aware of this as adults, we can teach our kids this too. So how, how could we do that? How can we plan? How can we be intentional when we go to use a device and not get sucked into it?

So this is such a good question. I think we have to increase our own awareness. So if I said how much time? If you go to your phone, it will tell you how much time you're using on each app. Most phones are going to give us that kind of a report. I wonder how many of us actually look and say, oh, I spent X amount of time on this app this week. That's intentional consumption, just being aware of it. Then I can say, you know what, I gotta change that. I spent four hours this week on this app. That's not my goal. That's not. That's not how I want to be living. But that means we have to increase our own awareness. And I think we want to teach our children the same thing. If we are willing to do that kind of just simple research, we'll find out how much time we're spending on certain apps. I think every Sunday morning my phone says your phone usage was up or down, you know, this week. Well, if I just click on a couple buttons, I can tell really quickly how I'm spending my time. And that's where I think we become much more intentional by understanding how much we actually are using it and saying, am I. Is that okay with me or not?

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Because I do think starting with awareness and assessing how much we are using it really can change the direction that we're going to rather than just mindlessly.

Absorbing before we move on. One thing I would add to that is we can't change what we don't understand. I often say that you can't change what you don't understand. So it does require us to pause and reflect and get information. So we can intentionally say that that's not, that's too much. That's more than what I want to be doing. So I think we need to be very aware and that can help us change our behavior.

Yeah, I think this self regulation is so significant in, in adults and then passing out to our children because I do agree that modeling this good tech behavior is probably our best bet on how our kids will learn how to use it. Which feels a little overwhelming, to be honest. But I think if we ask ourselves and then teach our kids this, you know, why am I using this device right now? Do I feel good about what I'm doing? How long will I spend on this device? Then it feels like this is supplementary to my life rather than this is my life on this device and I'm not actually living the life that I intend. That we're not being controlled by it, but in control of it, and that it's serving us rather than hurting us.

I like that. I like that. If I could add to it, one of the things I would recommend is that we have a set time where none of us are on our devices, for example, at the dinner table. But maybe also there are other times during a day or during an evening where everybody's got their phones down and we're just interacting without electronic devices interrupting the interactions between us.

So I hear you saying, taking an intentional break, a break away from technology, setting aside time, I think that comes back to this plan that we create. Here's a time every day where we unplug. And maybe creating a family technology plan includes creating zones in our home where we don't have phones. I know that we do that. We don't bring phones down to the basement or in bedrooms or in bathrooms. But keeping it our home, a place where we can still find connection with one another is so important. How important is that? To really establish guidelines and rules as they get a device and moving forward and then keeping those rules, not letting them slip.

I, I think that's such a very important point because if we don't have that conversation in the beginning, it's hard to go back in time and say, well, this is, you know, we, this is what we should have done, even though that may be necessary. So it is my belief that we need to, before we get into device, have the communication and we set the guidelines together so everybody understands what they are. Because if we understand what the guidelines are, they'll be much more effective and easier in the future than, rather than trying to impose them or throw them on a child halfway, you know, five years into it, not three years into it, what, whatever it may be.

Yeah, I really like that you come up with this together, that it feels like it's collaborative, not just us implementing roles that the kid doesn't agree with. And a collaborative approach means that we might hold each other accountable to our tech use in the homes.

And I think that could be done with the whole family. I think everybody sits down and says, okay, these are some of the guidelines. When we are together and in our home, these are the guidelines. That collaborative approach is much more effective than a top down. These are the rules from the parents. It's just way more effective. So, yeah, I like that a lot.

Well, and then I think it doesn't create, because I'm guilty of this, like I said at the beginning of the podcast, I'm guilty of creating such negativity surrounding technology. No screens. We hate screens. Screens are all bad versus let's, let's allow them to serve us in the way that is helpful and, and creating kind of a positive environment around it. Which I feel like removes any shame from any behavior that we may dislike in ourselves or in our children. And really having these open conversations about it, rather than good and bad and. And having it be such a dyad.

Yeah. One thing I would add to that is we. We want to teach our children to regulate themselves by creating structure and guidelines. So when they leave our home, they're already doing it because they're going to be having to figure it out on their own anyway. So if we can have guidelines in place and they understand them, then it's almost their habit. Not because mom and dad said so. I much prefer it being their habit, their choice, as they leave my home.

Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think if we really kind of pull back and see our end goal here. I've had this discussion with a lot of close friends and neighbors. You know, if this is our goal is to have healthy, functioning adults, and I say no screens in our home, then really, as they leave the home, does that help them? Or under our roof, maybe I can teach them what healthy tech use is. And obviously that's a little more work, and it's not as easy, but it will prepare them in the way they need to. Have it become something that doesn't control them, even as an adult.

And something that I want to bring up that I think is so important is sometimes we get so focused on rules and guidelines and the structure of, you know, don't do this and don't do that that we really forget our core goal is to connect with our child. The way that we're going to help our children the most is actually in our relationship with them. So if we can have a healthy relationship, meaningful conversations, being playful, being teasing them, if we can have those positive types of interactions, when we decide to talk about maybe rules, they're more likely to follow them because we have this healthy relationship with them. Uh, it's just so much more effective. If we already have established a good relationship with our children.

Yeah. What would you say to parents who feel like they're not quite where they want to be in that type of a relationship with their child?

I would say let's step back and ask the question, why? What are the barriers that are preventing it? And then are there things that we need to do to make amends or repair the unhealthy things that have occurred? If we haven't done it, there's no reason why we can't step back and say, I haven't done this well, but I want to be better. At it because I want a good, I want a great relationship with you. And so I think we try to repair it if we have not had it or done it well in the past.

When I think even saying those words to a child, they're very forgiving and very resilient. And to say, this is my greatest desire is to have a wonderful relationship with you. I mean, for a parent to say that to a child, it's like, okay, I guess, I guess we can move forward from here and there can be healing. But also I think paves the way for a lot of fresh ground moving forward.

It certainly gives us the opportunity. Now they may not trust us in the beginning. They may say, oh yeah, why are you doing this now? It needs to be consistently done over time so they develop that trust with us. Human connection is always based on trust and safety. And they want to know that we're going to be predictable. And the same is true with us. We want to know that they are going to be predictable. So it's helping our children understand trust is based upon action. And ultimately the actions that we're looking for is creating a safe environment so we can understand each other, communicate well with each other, and connect in the ways that maybe we haven't done in a long time because we've been so focused on structure and rules that we haven't paused to say, what kind of relationship am I having with this child right now? Is it positive, is it negative? And I personally had to step back a few months ago and analyze my relationship with my son. And I'd say, if I took the words I'm using with my son on a day to day basis, how much is positive and how much is not positive. And in that evaluation, I realized I was asking him to do things, but I wasn't really connecting with him. To me, that's more important. Just for you figuring out and analyzing what kind of interaction am I having with my son or my child and is it the way I want it?

Yeah, that's incredibly profound, I think is parents, we talk about doing things perfectly as a parent, but really what we can be doing best is establishing that relationship and then these other things that are very important to creating healthy kids. We can have the conversations in a way that we've talked about in the past about it's not about me controlling you, it's about me caring about you. And they, they're not just hearing it, but they're feeling that. That they feel like, oh, my parent actually does care. And they, they're not Just trying to control me or impose regulations that hinder me or make me feel constrained, but they're actually trying to protect me and love me and help me thrive, which only comes if they have had the basis and foundation of that love and that care. And I love that you say playfulness too. I think that's a major part that in today's world we forget to have fun and the time that we spend with our children is a huge portion of that. And maybe we're getting a little bit off base here, but I don't think so.

I think this is actually how we have stay connected if we look at this and be in control. I, I, real quick, I want to add to what we were saying here. I think sometimes educating our children on what it's like in a world without their media, without the information, I think helping them understand the why we care about this is very important. So helping explain the why is very helpful rather than it just being a guideline. So one thing I would add to this conversation hopefully is we want to explain the why we're doing something rather than just doing it. That education can really help our children understand why we're doing something. For example, if I said, I know that the longer you're on your phone, the higher levels of anxiety you're likely to experience. That's information that they then get to take into their mind and say, oh, I am spending a lot of time on it and, and I am feeling anxious. Maybe I need to pull back.

I'd love to discuss social media and the potential pitfalls and harmful consequences of social media. Discussing the why behind it and the science behind it. And what we're finding, I think is so power powerful with our kids that I'm not saying, hey, I just don't want you to use this. It's saying, hey, I just found this out. In fact, an audiobook that I was listening to said, blame me. The author said, blame me. As the scientist, when you're talking with your kin, blame me. And I thought, okay, good, I will, I'll blame you. This scientist said that this is really harmful for you. I thought this was interesting. I was listening to Arthur Brooks. I don't know how many people are familiar with him. He studies the science of happiness. You said social media is this laboratory for the earthly goals that actually make you miserable. And I thought, oh, wow. Going back to, to the way I like to think is, let's just eliminate it altogether. But what would you say to that? And as a therapist and a seasoned parent, what has been your experience with social media and what can you tell us about the science behind it?

So social media can be good and it can be very bad. Just like everything we were talking about today. I don't want to say something's always bad, but there are certain apps that I think they're intentionally created to create interaction with it which can become addictive. And so we begin to lose touch with people. And I'm so focused on getting the next points or I'm getting this. That's when it becomes distractive. That's when it becomes destructive as well. So I think we as parents want to educate our children and understanding the apps that they are using, what are they doing? So intentional usage of an app. And there are certain apps that we don't have in our home because we know the way that they're created and I'm sure that the parents are listening. Like which ones? I'm not. You're going to figure those things out because you're going to observe it in your children. Right? We want to help our children be monitors of themselves because that's more effective. But there are certain things with social media that are very good. Like there are certain ways that our children communicate. Like as an example, our children have a lot of fun with the Marco Polo as a family. And we'll send Marco Polos to each other. That, that's a fun one because we get to see our children who are literally all over the place. We get to see them and their facial expressions and they're fun. So in our, our family, my kids do be real and it's so much fun seeing them and their friends in different places. And, and it, it, what's interesting about it is as a family, everybody's involved. And again, that's what I think. If everybody's involved, then it's, it's, it's a good, healthy thing. We are using it intentionally for connection.

Yeah, I agree with you. We, I love Marco Polo. We've lived a lot of different places over the years and friends that I would normally not have stayed, I've connected with people I had lost connection with that have been really wonderful to my life. You know, friends that I lived with or among in Oregon and now we've gone on trips together, they've come to our home all because of Marco Polo. Shout out to Marco Polo. But I agree with you. And I also liked that the goal is to help them self regulate, to teach them to ask those questions. How do I feel when I'm using this? That's such A powerful question, especially discussing social media. How do I feel when I get a like? How do I feel when I don't get a like? How is this kind of messing with me when there's something that I do and it gets a huge surgence of likes and then things that I post that doesn't. How does that make me feel about myself? Is this healthy? Is this helpful or is this hurting me? Does this affect my day when I don't get the amount of likes that I have? Or when I look at someone's feed and I see a life that I don't have or an image that I don't feel like I have? How is that affecting me? And to ask those kind of questions really lends towards them learning how to self regulate on their own.

Yeah, well said. Very well said. Again, the goal there is self awareness and, and the more self awareness our children have, again, the more intentional they can live their lives. So that's a skill that we want our children to learn.

I'd like to learn more about how we can teach our children skills to communicate in healthy and not hurtful ways. I've noticed that keyboard courage is a real thing, not just with teens, but also adults. I think we could all agree that people are too reactive and say things maybe that if they had taken a moment to think about, wouldn't have actually said, and especially wouldn't have said face to face with someone.

That last part's really critical. The general rule of thumb is if you wouldn't do it in person, you shouldn't do it over a keyboard or through your phone. So would you say that to that person if you were in their presence? That's a general guideline. But the other part of it is what are we really trying to communicate so we can communicate from a fight. I'm. I'm angry, I'm upset, I don't like the way you did something. Or we can do it in a non communicative way that is just I ignore you. And sometimes people do that where they just ignore a friend or a person because they were upset at them. So those are two unhealthy examples in contrast with how do I effectively communicate what I'm actually trying to say. And this is where we get into effective communication. If we think about what we're really trying to say, that's what we're trying to teach our children. What are you trying to get across here? What's your key point?

That's really good. And especially if this person is important to me in my Life. That is probably why I'm messaging them. I think some of the things that I've read about talks about having only close contacts, close family members, close friends in your digital device, so that when you are messaging them, your goal is to have a deeper connection with them and to send a message that I'm interested in growing that connection with you. Whereas I feel like if we start to use it as entertainment and it's very easy to gossip or slander or hurt someone else because we are less afraid. I love the findings from the Stanley Milgram experiment. For those who aren't familiar, it was conducted at Yale University in the early 1960s, and it was where they had adults deliver varying levels of voltages of shock towards another individual. And what they found, a lot of people were very willing to do it, even though they knew they were inflating pain. What's interesting is they were not actually inflicting pain. They were actors making different noises. But when they would say, hey, we want you to turn up the voltage, what I think is interesting here is they were more willing to turn up the voltage if they did not see the person in pain. They could hear the pain, but they could not see. And especially if they couldn't hear it, they had no problem turning up the voltage. And that we as humans are much more capable of inflicting harm when we do not see the pain that we are inflicting or hear the pain that we are inflicting. And I think, especially with technology, it makes it much more possible to cause harm or do pain. And especially when we're talking about with teens and adolescents, there's a. A lot of pain that can occur through messaging and social media. That would not have been something I experienced as a child or as a teen because of a less digital world.

You know, one of the things that reminds me of is when we get on our devices, they can be used for so many different purposes. But one of the core things that I think we want to help our children understand is, are you doing good? Are you. Are you creating a world that's going to be better because of your actions? And. And can you be a peacemaker? Can you be somebody who helps solve problems rather than just find problems and criticize, find the solutions, be a leader, be a person who's going to help other people? Because if you do that, then the world around us gets better. But if we're critical, if we're negative, if we're pessimistic, if we're whatever that is, then all we're Doing is contributing to the energy that's already out there. Be a problem solver, be a person who lifts other people up and I promise you, your life will be better. And I think that's the message we want to send to our children is be the person who creates the solution and makes it.

That's really beautiful. I think having that conversation with your kid is not a one time conversation, but a recurring conversation over and over. I think as all parents, we don't have a great pulse all the time on how well our child is doing. How can we tell how they are doing? Especially how are they monitoring their tech use? Are they doing okay? We can't control and monitor every encounter in every moment. Our parents did not do that. They did not follow us around the hallways and, and eavesdrop on every conversation we have. But how can we tell without being a total helicopter parent?

I think it's, again, it's the relationship that we've created with them. If we are in an interaction with our children that's positive, that we're talking, checking in on a regular basis, how are things going? And not even about the phone, just about life. I think if we're checking in with our children and we're talking with them, then there's really a natural observation. Are they still following the guidelines? You know, if the phone's out of their rooms and it's in a certain location. But again, it goes back to the idea to summarize some of these things. They're more intentional, we're more intentional. We understand what's actually happening on our phones because we actually pay attention and we communicate about it. And then I think we watch the emotions of our children, the so to speak, the barometer. Are they connecting with others? Are they having fun? Are they being playful? Are they pulling away? Are they more isolated? Can you see that your child is feeling lonely and they're spending a lot of time on the phone by themselves? Those are the things that we're probably observing and saying. We probably ought to be more attentive to this. And other times it's like you're doing great. I just want to commend you, you know, the way you're using your device and the phone, it's just, it's just refreshing to see how you're, you know, still engaging with your siblings and you're here at home engaging with us and talking with us and you're doing your homework. So we want to highlight the positive things that our children are doing. We want to be aware if they're starting to pull away or pull back, and those are some of the just best things that we can do.

In summary, I've noticed that as well that I can tell by the other areas of their life, their schooling, their interactions with me and with other family members, with their friends, you can kind of get a. An accurate gauge of what's going on in their life. And if there are things that need to be addressed. And that's kind of what prompts me to go do a. A phone audit, you know, oh, they seem a little off. Maybe I'll go check their phone and see if something's frustrating them and then have a conversation about it. I think also for our family, things that I have learned along the way is that instead of being like a policeman that catches them in the act and pulls them over and there's big flaring lights and shame and all of the things. But coming from a place of. I've noticed you felt more distant or you pulled away or a little less enthusiastic about going to school or friends, maybe. Let's talk about this. Is there something going on without me directly saying, I found this on your phone. I saw this interaction with this one person. It looks like you were mean to this one friend or this girl or whatever that way. I think they're more. At least in my experience, they've been a lot more open with me, rather than shutting down and creating this parental child divide, which I really don't like.

In fact, I don't think any of us do. But when we don't know what to do or we don't know what to say, that's when we're more prone to that kind of interaction, which goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I think it's important that we pause and reflect and identify what we're truly trying to communicate. What's our goal? And I think we're gonna get better outcomes if we do that.

That's such a beautiful message. I think with everything, and especially in relation to what we've talked about today, that what is the messaging I'm trying to send? What is my end goal here that's so beautiful. And not just how we parent, but in what we want, how we want our kids to act and react to the world. You know, what is my messaging? What am. What am I trying to do here? It makes us feel like maybe we aren't being controlled, but that we are more in control of what's happening around us. Is there anything else you'd like to cover today, Dr. Skinner, before we Wrap up.

You know, I would just say now more than ever, we have to be aware of what's happening. It's when we're unaware and disengaged that our children are at greater risk. We don't have the luxury today to not be aware of what's happening with our devices. It's something that maybe a few years ago we did not know the potential consequences, but now we are starting to understand there are consequences if we're not aware and aware of what's happening with our children and ourselves with today's technology. So this concept of really communicating and being aware of it so we can be in control, apply it to all of us. This isn't just in parenting. This is all of us that need to be aware of how we're consuming or being consumed by these devices.

I really loved also this message that we've tried to get across today. The be gentle if you're feeling like it is too late. Whether it's rules or boundaries over devices or even the relationship with the child, it is never too late, too late to want to have a better relationship, a more deep and meaningful relationship with your child. And so starting now is powerful. And also we talked about today that looking back through the decades, we will know that this time we are the test dummies. We are the ones that are learning as we are going and to be gentle with ourselves in that regard to you. So we hope that you will leave today not feeling rental shame, but more feeling a boost of enthusiasm, feeling like knowing more, you can feel less anxious and stressed, stressed out around the issue of technology in your homes. I know I have.

So thank you, Dr. Skinner, and thank you, Carly.

You've been listening to Finding Noble. I'm Karly Reddit. Follow Finding Noble on all available podcast directories and find out more on our website, findingnoble.com that's findingnobeln. O b l e.com and if you or anyone close to you are looking for further resources on young adult and adolescent mental health, Dr. Skinner and a host of other leading professionals working in the mental health world share courses and even answer your questions all on P Parentguidance. Org. That is parentguidance. Org, brought to you by the Cook center for Human Connection.