How to Deal with Getting Cheated On: The First Steps Toward Healing After Betrayal (Episode #125)

Something about you that I can't help but smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh. Something's around you.

Welcome to the Human Intimacy Podcast. Dr. Kevin Skinner with Marianne Michalis, licensed clinical social worker. Marianne, we are dealing with some difficult topics. You know, it's our 125th podcast, and today I really want to emphasize something that is easily overlooked. It's people who are asking the question, how do you deal with getting cheated on? And I want to outline a process for healing after betrayal. So Marianne, with that intro, what are your initial thoughts on how to deal with getting cheated on?

I want to, first of all, validate the shock. That comes to the system. I recently had a client who's a little bit newer say, okay, I'm ready. I wanna help my partner. What do I do? And, and they were the one that was betrayed. How do I help my partner? I, I just really care about them and I, I really wanna help them through this. I'm seeing your face, Dr. Skinner, and I'm hearing you go, oh, what's going on for you as I say that?

Well, my thought is, is wait a second, you're the one that was cheated on. You're wanting to help my partner heal. Like, what about your own pain?

Right. So I have heard that oftentimes, as soon as we fix you, as soon as this problem's fixed, then I, then we can keep going on. I didn't know there was anything really wrong to begin with. I mean, maybe there were some questionable things, but I didn't know about your secret life. So let's get you fixed so I can just keep on going. So as you're hearing that as a therapist, you're going, wait a second, there's there's so much involved here, but an initial reaction is, let's fix the problem and move forward.

What's interesting there is it would fit with Janice Abrams Spring's book, How Can I Forgive You? That first type of forgiveness, which she calls cheap forgiveness, because I'm not looking inside. I'm thinking, okay, this is a problem that you have, right? And what we're not looking at here is what's the story behind it? And I'm going to say that may not be the most common response. I think most partners, there's a tremendous traumatic response based upon our research. There is this response of shock, awe, like what in the world just happened? Maybe a form of disassociation. I can't believe what's just happened. And so many times, if I go straight into let's get you fixed, and I ignore my pain, it's gonna surface somewhere at some time.

I agree with that. And coming from my own personal experience as a betrayed partner, I knew that, yeah, let's put my stuff on the back burner because if you're better, then we are gonna be better.

And again, I, I would say that concept is, is maybe more common than I think. But I think the most common response, at least from what we're looking at in the research, is your sleep habits change. You start being more hypervigilant, monitoring your spouse, trying to follow up, check what they're doing. You may pull away from people. All of the PTSD symptoms that we've outlined previously. I mean, I think those are the responses that 80 to 90% of people actually legitimately are experiencing. And maybe there is this concept of, I need you to go get fixed, or I need you to heal, but it doesn't take away from the symptoms that I'm experiencing.

Exactly. I think it's both. I think part of that denial is, yeah, my, my stuff is really unbearable. My stuff is really hard. And maybe I don't have the words for it. Maybe I don't know that there are resources for that. Maybe I don't know that this is normal and this is just part of my shock of, I don't even know how to grapple with this. I don't have the tools for this. My nervous system is so unsettled. Let's do anything we can just to get it to stop and, and change and get better.

And I think the challenge with that is it doesn't allow us the opportunity to understand what actually happened. How did we get to that space? And so we understand that it creates traumatic experiences. We also understand that I become hypervigilant because I don't feel safe. There's this sense of, am I safe with you anymore? So what happens then, Marianne, is the brain does what? It begins searching for— I often say like, where's Waldo? Like if the betrayal created a response inside of a betrayed partner, It's every page that turns. Maybe it's at the grocery store. It's driving down the street. It's you're on your phone. All of those things are triggering, Maryann, this concept that I have to be looking around, whether that's hypervigilance or super aware because I'm looking for the danger. Where's Waldo? He's gotta be here on this page.

Right. And I think part of that too, a PTSD response related to that, or maybe connected to what you're talking about, Dr. Skinner, is The sense of helplessness. I have no power to fix this, so what can I do? So that hypervigilance, maybe if I'm looking at the phone, maybe if I'm making sure I'm controlling where my partner's looking or what we're doing, these are all tendencies that we might have. I want to control things because something happened that I had no control over, which is all about my safety. And so now my nervous system is saying, I'm not safe. So what can I do to create some type of safety for me? Because there's not a lot I can do about what happened, but maybe I can try and manipulate my current environment and I can do that through controlling.

And I think this is, Marianne, where we see a lot of challenges with the attachment injury, the attachment wound. I've been reading this book by Allan Shore on how our brain connects and the right brain. And the general concept is we connect right brain to right brain. Our nervous system relaxes, we calm, we soothe, we do that. But after betrayal, the brain goes into the amygdala, that nervous system that gets like, there's a threat, there's a fear. And so many times people ask, well, why am I responding this way? Am I losing my mind? Am I going crazy? What's wrong with me? Why am I overreacting?. And I think that that's a mistake that both partners experience. They assume that this is maybe a relationship problem, or they assume that this is just the acting out and this person, you know, once that stops, then everything's gonna be okay.

Yeah. Dr. Skinner, as I was hearing you speak, I was listening. If I were a betrayed partner hearing this, at least that was the filter I was listening through. And when you talked about if we communicate right brain to right brain, if I'm, if I'm a newly betrayed partner hearing this, my first question would be, well, then if I'm communicating right brain to right brain with my partner, how did I miss this then?

Hmm.

You may be doing it, but they may not be right because you're, you're connecting, you're doing your part to connect and they are not available. And so you probably in most situations, you're not connecting right brain to right brain. You've been asking a question like, why, why can't we fully connect? Are you holding back? Marianne, if I, if I had a dollar for every time the betrayed partner say, I wanted sex more than my spouse, I'd probably be a pretty wealthy person. And that may be surprising to some of our listeners, but they're sensing something's off. And sometimes it is through the sexual interactions. Sometimes it's through the communication. Or the lack of communication. Sometimes it's they've been criticized and they're like, what, what is this about? So I think in most situations, and that I think this is actually based on some, even some of the data, they're sensing something's off. They just can't put their finger on it.

And I think I would add to that, or they've been being gaslit. And, and I think, you know, I think about it, one of my clients who said for 5 years I was pursuing my husband I couldn't figure out why he wasn't interested. Well, now it all makes sense. Yeah. Now it makes sense. And there's that space of something must be wrong with me. That internalization of if he's not interested, there's something wrong with me. I better change or fix something cuz I'm still pursuing and, and they're not responding.

The locus of control. Right? I believe that somehow if I'm in control of this, that somehow I'll be able to manage it. I'll be able to take care of this thing that's been so painful and hurtful to me. And so I think that, Marianne, that then transitions us to this idea that yes, we may, we may have been trying to right brain, right brain connect, but our nervous system isn't getting regulated because we feel there's something off. I think that that's usually that's the case, but you also give that case where where, how did I miss it? There is that population. I thought things were going well. I thought things were good. And that's actually the research I'm currently working on right now, is that what I'm referring to as the shock factor. Like, how shocking was this information? Well, I sensed something that was off, or I just had no idea, or I was completely shocked by what occurred, the information I got.

Yeah.

And I'm thinking about this in that when the discovery happens, first of all, how did my partner cheat on me? And I've been pursuing them for 5 years or things have felt a little bit off, but I haven't understood it. And now I have, I wanna say it's like a big old octopus sitting in front of me, but it probably has more arms than an octopus does, but it's just this wriggling thing that has so many tentacles that go out in so many areas that how do I even start to make sense of it? There's so much. And then it also feels like here's the shock, and now there's a shock of it sitting in front of me, and I don't know what to do with it. I can avoid it because it's too big, it's too much, it's overwhelming. Or I can try and wrangle it, but there's all these other parts of it that are showing up and popping up as well, and it's overwhelming.

And that's one of the most difficult things with sexual betrayal is that initially it's just, there's so much information that I don't have My brain is asking a million and one questions. What about this? And what about this? And timeframes. And so many questions are going through. That's why one of the things is the Intimacy Repair Method. One of the things that I talk about is that here's a roadmap to do this. One of the first steps, well, the first, we've gotta stabilize and we gotta find safety. And really those two things, I've gotta emotionally stabilize. And that means I need to have questions answered, Marianne.

Yeah, let's slow that down. When you say we need to stabilize and find safety, I think that means two different things for the partner, for each partner.

Two very different concepts. Yeah. So stabilization first and foremost is I need to find a landing place because after sexual betrayal, I mean, your emotions, your questions, who's safe, who's not safe, all of the normal questions are there. So stabilization might be as simple as being able to get up in the morning. And eat breakfast. And, and that might be your first step to stabilization because there's, there's something normal about eating.

And you probably don't feel like you want to eat because this is grief and shock and your nervous system just shut down because there's a lot of anxiety and you're bracing for fight or flight because I don't know what's coming at me because I don't know what my reality is. I thought that I had a stable foundation and now everything's upended. And so what else am I going to find out? What else is coming at me? Of course I don't want to eat. And I probably slept really crappy too.

And you say that, Marianne, and I just want to, you know, one of the symptoms or signs of sexual betrayal, or maybe I should say one of the outcomes. I was actually looking at the data that you've been gathering on grief and you were asking about health issues, Marianne. And I was surprised at how many people had lost weight. Like, I mean, if we can share that image, that image is absolutely fascinating, Maria.

Okay.

And my point there is, under stress, you're right, the body doesn't process food, it doesn't digest it, it doesn't need food. And except for it needs food, it just doesn't hunger because it's in such a state of shock. And so many people after sexual betrayal, they lose a significant amount of weight. That's Your research is now showing them, Harriet.

So the research that you're talking about, Dr. Skinner, is called the Grief After Betrayal Impact Scale. So we'll have a link to that. We'd love to have any, any of our betrayed partners who are listening participate in that research, but yes, it's significant. So we know that you are trying to, as you were saying, Dr. Skinner, function, get up, get out of bed. When you had a crappy night's sleep, trying to eat something because you know that your body needs it might be a major feat. And then if you've got kids or responsibilities, just getting to those might feel like it's almost too hard because I'm probably not having my proper nutrition. I'm not getting enough sleep and nobody functions when they're hangry. I'll just say, I think that's a universal acknowledgement we can Just say we don't, we don't show up our very best, even though we want to. And that's—

And that transition, Maryanne, of stabilization is the basics: heating, sleeping, right? Doing just some of the basic functioning. That's an essential part after discovery. That part of stabilization allows us then to do other things.

I remember years ago, one of our colleagues who's since passed, but the late Mindy Lundgren, I remember her talking about the importance of recognizing I have experienced trauma and my body is carrying my trauma right now. And the most important thing that I can do for this trauma and to get through this trauma is to take care of my body because my body's trying to carry me through it. So I need to get I need to get the nutrition. I need to move my body and get exercise. I need to get sleep. These really most basic things, even though we're grieving, naturally we don't want to do these things. These are the things that if I say the only way I'm gonna get through this is my body carrying me through it. And so I have to nurture and baby my body during this time.

And what's so interesting about what you're just saying there, Marianne, is that's like the foundation of just like, we need to stabilize the body. And then we have to recognize something. And this is something where I think we might miss the point. When we talk about safety, I wanna, I'm gonna put this in a different context. I don't think your body's going to feel safe for an extended period of time. I think it's gonna be looking around the corner. It's gonna be on alert. And so safety is hard to find when even the basics aren't happening because your body's in a state of threat. Like, I need nutrition, I need sleep. And so that's why even some of the most basic, simple things are wins.

Right. So an image of this, if I'm walking through a minefield and I'm having to be so hypervigilant, if I step there, is there any metal there? Like, What does the ground feel like when I put my foot here? The irony is that's what we're talking about. And here we are saying like, oh, by the way, get some, get some good sleep and make sure that you're eating well. Like that is not where my mind or my focus will be. Thank goodness, because my body is trying to keep me safe. So I'm grateful for that. But also the difficulty of that is I am walking through a minefield.

And as you say that, that's right. That's how the body's responding. Just recently I was talking with a group of betrayed partners and we were talking about sleep habits and it's amazing. Just the interrupted sleep patterns. And interestingly, talking about regulating our nervous system, learning how to calm the body is the self-care that's part of your stabilization.. And we have a trauma-informed yoga specialist. And when she comes to our intensives, when we do betrayal trauma intensives, Marianne, and it's a part of, like, I don't want to do an intensive without her presence. And the reason why is because when your body can be in a safe place and it can just feel and be with itself. In an environment where you're safe, learning is possible. Your digestive system is more productive. And I've had many women say after that, I haven't felt that relaxed in months and in some cases years.

So it's taking you out of the minefield.

Right. And learning how to do that and finding that place that is your safe place is a part of your healing journey. So if we're creating a roadmap, I'm not asking, you know, if you've just recently experienced your partner's sexual betrayal, that's just gonna take time. But that's the kind of self-care that gets you to a place where you're able to function. And if we were climbing a rock wall, these are the holds that we're trying to get to that help you take one small step at a time, one at a time. And that, Marianne, is so important.

So I love this conversation, Dr. Skinner. I think it's really important. We're talking about the stabilization and creating safety as our very basic building blocks. We've also got to look at the partner who's betrayed. There's got to be some stabilization for them. And that also looks like stopping the behaviors and starting to get support. So as we're, we're talking about a recovery process for two partners that looks very, very different. We're starting at ground zero for the betrayed partner. And because the partner who betrayed, they already knew all the information, they've been hiding it. Now they've been found out, but they're like a mile ahead. And so they've got to stabilize in a different way.

I think that that's interesting that you say that they're a mile ahead. I think they might be a mile behind.

Oh, say more about that.

They might know about their behaviors. But so many of the people who betray are unaware of their blind spots, how they got down that rabbit hole. So I think there's a blindness to, yes, there's the actions. I understand that I did those behaviors, but I don't think they understand themselves well enough to understand what led me down that pathway. There's a blind spot in many cases that I've seen where the person who's betraying, they know their actions. They may have been with him, hi, hidden secrets, pornography, affairs, whatever it may be. But their why, why did I do that? That work is, I don't feel like that's ahead. I think that's actually, they need to do that work.

Sure. And maybe let me qualify it a little bit differently. And then you can say, nope, Mary Beth, I'm okay with that. I think though, when you've been betrayed, your whole reality is shattered. And so when I'm saying, you know, they're a mile ahead. I don't think there's as much as I have to piece, piece to back together all of the lies, all of the secrecy of the reality that I believed, because they were carrying the story, they were carrying the secrets, they offloaded them, they've been discovered, but their reality hasn't shifted and changed in regards to what they're seeing as.

Yeah, for sure. I agree with that 100%. The betrayer knows the story. They know all the deception. They know the lies. I still don't even think they have great clarity on that. I think there's so much work that needs to be done there. And that's the stabilization they need. They need to understand why was I driving this way? Why was I doing these things? And so, yes, I agree with that. My point is, is they, if we walk back, there's so many spots, blind spots, I'm going to just call it lack of awareness of how did I get here? And because I've asked people, how did you get there? And I've heard them over and over, like, I don't know. Well, let's go back and we do a full sexual history timeline. And when we do the full sexual history timeline, lights start clicking on. And that's a way better presentation to a spouse of like, here's my story, here's my history, here's that disclosure, rather than saying, you know, I really don't know. You say, I don't know, your partner's not going to handle that very well. It's going to be hurtful and painful because they're like, well, how do I— how are you going to prevent it again if you don't know how you got there?

Exactly. That gives me no hope. That gives me no safety. Whatsoever.

So today we're talking, we've been talking about some stabilization, right? Ultimate question. You, how do I deal with getting over, you know, you've been cheated on. How do I get over that? Again, we're just giving a couple of these steps of stabilization and working to find a safe environment, which is sometimes is very basic. A safe environment is somebody that you can trust or yourself, that self-safety. Of like, I know these things about me and I know that if I'm doing that, I, I feel at least safe with self.

Dr. Skinner, one element of stabilization, as you've been talking about, is finding a safe person. My partner might not be my safe person for a while. Doesn't mean that they won't ever be, but right now I might need to find some other places that I can turn to that, that will be safe for me while I'm working on figuring out what's my reality. And this is a place where I highly encourage my clients to find support groups, to find places where there are other people who speak the same language, who understand the betrayal, who've been working at this and can give support. And oftentimes for my clients, they'll say, I don't want everybody in my town to know about this. I'm trying, I'm trying to figure this out. So one of the options is looking online. There's oftentimes there's great online support groups. I know at Human Intimacy, I know we are forming some new support groups. And so if you're interested, please send us an email at info@humanintimacy.com and let us know that you'd be interested in participating in a psychoeducational group where we're teaching principles, some of the principles we've been talking about here, and creating a space to make sense of, of your reality.

Yeah, I find that so many times people fly solo for so long. And so, yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up, Marianne. If you're looking for support and you want to be guided, yeah, there's a lot of online resources. We'll put some of them in there. We'll also put a link in if you're interested in getting a psychoeducational group that can support you. We don't want people to fly solo for extended periods of time. It's just, if you've just discovered your partner's betrayal, having guided support can accelerate your healing. It's already a lengthy process. And I, I don't like to be discouraging like that to so many people, but as you said earlier, there's so many different parts to it. Make sure that you're taking care of yourself, and understanding what's actually going on is one way to do that. Having the right information is so incredibly important here. I've seen so many people, Marianne, they just wait so long to get support and help, and what happens is it, it's just their body gets worn out. In the research that I've been gathering, many people have known for more than 5 years and experiencing the symptoms that we described earlier, right? The nightmares, they don't know who to trust, the negative thoughts about self— what's wrong with me? These are common responses to sexual betrayal. And if you feel that way and live that way for day after day, month after month, year after year, it takes a toll. Getting that information, getting proper support will help you make the best decisions for you. So I would encourage people to reach out for support. Don't fly solo, please.

I think as we wrap up today, Dr. Skinner, my journey that brought me here today started with a support group. It started with somebody saying, you need to find a support group, MaryAnn. And in that space, I found words, I found connection. And it was my lifeline. And I know that to our listeners and viewers, your time is precious. And we're so grateful that you've taken the time to be here with us today. We want to help. We want to provide you with the lifelines that you may need. And so we encourage you, whatever it looks like for you, to reach out and find support because there is a lot of hope ahead and there is a lot of healing and there are So many more resources today than there were even 10 years ago. So please find them. Yeah.

All right. Thank you for being with us today. We always appreciate your time. We know it is precious. May you be blessed as you go through the journey of this life. And we are excited to be a part of that journey with you. Thanks for spending time with us today. As we conclude today's podcast, here's a couple of resources for you. We have a 100-day course. It is designed to help you understand the basics of healing through sexual betrayal. In fact, Marianne, it may be what I would say is like the pinnacle of my career in terms of helping betrayed partners. It's 100 days, videos, assignments. And as people go through it, it's amazing the feedback I get. It's like, there's so many things in this course that are helping me stabilize, helping me recognize what I need to do. So that's just one of the courses. Another course that we have, Marianne, what would you say is your favorite?

Well, I'm going to add two because there's a bundle. You can do the 100-day course, Walking Through Betrayal Trauma, and I believe it's bundled with our Boundaries course.

Yep.

And so you can do the two together and bundle them for, for a better price. So there's that. And we also created RISE: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal. It's a podcast that we started. Season 1 is you and I just really walking through step by step. Here's what you need to know. Here's validating your experience if you've been betrayed. And we have a companion course online as well that goes along with that. Each episode matches one of the chapters in the course. And so for betrayal, these are 3. We've got 3 courses here that we've created knowing these are the things that we teach our clients. These are the things that are really helpful. So today I had a conversation with somebody who's in a state where they don't have very many there are qualified therapists who've been trained to work with betrayal trauma. So our hope is that, especially if you live in one of those states, that we can still help you find some really good resources to go through. We also have some resources for the partners who've betrayed. Do you want to talk about those, Dr. Skinner?

Yeah, I've got a 100-day course and it's for individuals who've been acting out unwanted sexual behaviors. And it's really designed to help you go through these questions. Understanding yourself and really looking deeper. Like even one of the days I'm like, let's do a sexual history timeline. Let's look at your history. And then I offer some resources of how to deal with shame, which is one of the more common things. So 100 Days, included in there is how to understand your partner and their response to your betrayal. So it's 100 days of walking them through themselves, understanding how to respond to the relationship and what's going on. It's also 100 videos. With assignments or things that they can do.

I think you've also, we've also got Reclaim, which is a podcast as well for dealing with pornography use. And there's a course that goes along with that as well. Is that correct?

Yeah. Yeah. So there's the Reclaim podcast, just a few versions of it at this point. Season 1, just, you know, it's there along with some great resources of just getting started if you're dealing with unwanted pornography use.

Yeah. So we wanted to say, we're glad that you're here and here are some of the resources that we've been working and creating to help the individuals that we're working with to find tools and solutions and resources and your way through it. So hopefully these might be stabilizing to you or help you as you're looking for stabilization and safety on your journey. So I'm so grateful that we have those to share, Dr. Skinner.

Alright, thank you very much.

Smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh. Something's around you, it's like you're shining, you're starring.