Reclaiming Self-Worth: A Journey Back to Who You Truly Are (Episode #51)

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Help but smile when you smile and.

Laugh when you laugh, something surround. Welcome to the human intimacy podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner with my friend and colleague Marianne Michaelis. Marianne, how are you?

Dr. Skinner, I am so good today, so glad to be here.

You know, I. As we begin this new year, there's a lot of things that, you know, goals have been set, individuals that I've been meeting with, doing a little bit more therapy recently and absolutely love the interaction. But one of the things that I often am finding, and this is something that I found throughout my career, by the way, this is something interesting. I've been doing therapy for 30 years this month.

Wow, 30 years. That's amazing.

30 years. I love what I do. I am, I just so blessed to be in this profession. But something that I found over and over and over again is today's topic and it has to do with, with our self worth. And I'm not using self esteem, I'm using self worth. A friend of mine, he said, you know, really it's a conclusion about our worth, where we fit, how we belong, esteem can, you know, whatever that concept is of esteem. But worth is something that can't be changed. And I thought, well, what he just said is really important there.

Yeah, I know Kristen Neff and her self compassion work. I know she talks a lot about the differentiation between self esteem and self worth. And it is really where we want to focus is the self worth part.

You know, and I want to talk about it in the context of what happens in relationship to sexual betrayal for actually both partners and then maybe the historic of their, the history of their lives. Because when we start looking at self worth, it really is a Conclusion that we draw about ourselves, we draw a sense of its self worth.

So you're saying, like to define what we're going to be talking about, it's really looking at how we view ourselves, the value that we give ourselves, like the, the view of, of our own worthiness.

We have to draw that conclusion. It's not optional. I am. Finish this sentence. I am. I'm good at this or I'm not good at this. I'm good at math, you know, I'm good at planning, I'm good at finances. I'm not good at this. Again, we come to conclusions about good, but that's still not what we're talking about. It's actually deeper than that. It's my worth. How do I interact and see myself in connection to other people? And go ahead.

Oh, sorry, yes. As you're saying that, I'm thinking of an exercise that I often do with my clients where we look at what was going on for your parents when you were born, what was going on in your family system. And then let's talk about like the barriers that were there for you to connect with them. So dad was in school or parents were working a couple of jobs, there were other siblings. All of those things might have been barriers. They might have made it more difficult for you to get connection. But we often, you know, when we're talking about I am this, I am that, we often pick up survival tools that help us get connection and we identify with these. So I'm studious and my parents really honor that. And so they recognize me for being, for getting good grades and so I'm smart and, and I get connection from that. And so I derive my worth. That these labels that we create for ourselves, that we see ourselves through these lenses which really are all about getting connection, right?

And so we draw this conclusion about our parents and others give us this feedback. Teachers give us this feedback. I remember when I was a younger boy, we had these art contests at school. And I always loved the ball in my hand. But when it came to using crayons, I, I wasn't, I just didn't do as well as the other students. And I remember one day in particular I thought my drawing was pretty good. And I didn't know which one was mine because the teacher put it up on the board and all of them, all of us students together and I'm like, wow, everyone's voting on that one. Is that the one I did? I couldn't remember. I thought, man, that maybe I'm pretty good. I get I didn't get any votes. And it was one of those times, like, man, maybe I'm just not good at art. Well, the reality is I probably wasn't. But it helped me realize, in reflecting on that experience, a conclusion I drew from that I'm not good at art.

So this is a story that you carried?

Yeah, a story that I carried. And. And in reality, if I had developed the skills, if somebody said, hey, let me show you some techniques. Let me show you this. I'm absolutely confident that I could have got it with today's mindset. But that little boy, me, drew a conclusion, and that conclusion was, you're not very good at art.

And that was an internal one. As you're sharing that, I'm thinking of two experiences that I had very young. So a couple weeks ago, I was at the US Supreme Court advocating for age verification laws. And as I was there thinking about that, I went back to first grade. I remember walking down the hallway at school and my mom said something to me. She said, you always fight for the underdog. And I don't know if she said it directly to me or she was saying it to somebody else. So she said, marianne Feitzer, the underdog. And it's so distinctive because I was like, what's an underdog? What's under the dog? Like, I. I was thinking so literally, I had no idea what that meant. But that's. That has. That's something that stuck with me all along. When I was in fifth grade, we were playing baseball, and I was telling my mom how I would. Like I'd hit the ball on the third one. I might strike out the first two, but the third I usually got. And she said, you do well under pressure. And like these simple statements that somebody else saw and observed or reflected or labeled, they've been something that I've carried with me. Those are labels that I've taken as my personality, and I back to them.

So go to that for a second. Labels. You're a hard worker. You're smart. You're good at sports. Oh, you're lazy. You're. You know, nobody's gonna like you. And all of a sudden, we draw these conclusions from the environment around us about that concept of worth. Now, if we look at that to. Again, to our listeners, I invite you, we invite you to think about life experiences that influenced your sense of worth, and think about it in the context of how you see yourself in every area. Finances, how you see yourself in relationships, how you see yourself spiritually, how you see yourself academically, how you see yourself dealing with everything related to education and, and we draw conclusions in these areas. I'll give you one other personal example. I really didn't excel in math. It was not, it was not my strength. And I remember at one point in college I went to a Math 110 class and I hadn't had math for about four years because of just the rotation of my life and experiences. And I got to my math class that day and the teacher, I, I honestly don't believe I understood half of what the teacher was talking about. Cosines and I mean just a whole bunch of language. I, I honestly, I did. It was way over my head and it was math 110 remedial math. In college I went to a Chinese class after that. It was Chinese 301. Everything was in Chinese a hundred percent. And I understood every word the teacher said. And I walked out of that class thinking there is a serious problem here. I just went to a class in English and understood half of the words and I class in Chinese and I understood everything that the teacher said. And I came to another conclusion at that point. Something's your, your math, it's a problem. And I had considered going into business at that point and that was part one of those turning points, like I probably ought to not go into business. Fortunately, I had a family science class that I absolutely loved. But that too was one of those change points for me, realizing what's my strength, what's my weakness? And I follow the strength, which I think is a good thing. But I'll tell you what, after that, when I went into a stats class that I had to learn math, I'd never worked so hard to improve my life skills. And I eventually ended up teaching a class in statistics. But it was so much work for me because my mindset of how hard it was going to be for me.

And I would even posit that it was another language. Math is another language. It's learning how to do it. But it's about where we've had opportunities and exposure and where we've felt safe. Because I'm going to guess that when somebody says here's how to do it and you get it, it's easy.

Right? Again, if somebody says to you you can't and that person might actually be you going to Carol Dweck's work on a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. A fixed mindset is one that you draw a conclusion very quickly whether you can or you can't do something.

Yeah. And there's so much Shame that we have. I mean, we haven't talked yet about this part, but this is shame language where I say I can't or I'm not or I'm lacking, this is all about versus I haven't learned this yet. Which would be the open mindset. I don't know how to do that yet. I haven't mastered that yet. Like that. I love that word yet because it just opens up the door to the future versus the fixed concrete. I am a failure. I'm not good at math.

So there's something interesting in this conversation. So we're talking about this at a level of how I do in academics or how I'm doing in finances or how I'm doing in whatever. Interestingly enough, none of that actually influences our worth to our listeners. I actually mean what I just said. Our worth is not going to. If you base your worth on your finances or your education or your ability to pass a class, whether people like you or whether a teacher likes you, whether your spouse. Let's go into this for a second. Whether your spouse is being kind or not, if your worth is based upon other people, you will be on a roller coaster for life, up and down. Some days you're going to get great education, you're going to do well in a class, and other days you're going to take a math class, you're going, but I'm not very smart. Here. You can be in a relationship with somebody, a friend, and they can do something that's kind and caring, and the next time they might do something that's hurtful and painful. If you're worth is contingent upon other people and their interaction or how you do well in a class, you're going to be on this emotional roller coaster for life. And that's what I want our listeners to understand. Our worth is not contingent upon those things. It's inherent within us.

I love that. You know, Dr. Skinner, when I work with my clients and we're talking about our worth, we're usually talking about the trauma and shame and these experiences that taught us that I am not worthy of love and connection for whatever X, y, z, reason. Fill in the blank. One of my favorite conversations with my clients is to say, let's talk about your grandchild, or let's talk about your son or your daughter, or let's just talk about a baby being born. And. And then the question is, when does that child begin to have worth? When the child's conceived. And there's an announcement, hey, there's a baby on the way, is, is there worth? There is that child, is it, does it have worth? And they'll say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we talk about, and when it's born, all it does is sleep and poop and eat. Like it's not very interactive. It's, it's sleeping 20 hours a day. And as we look at it, we say, when does that child lose its worth? And that is such a wake up call for so many of us because is it, does a 3 year old still have worth? Does a 13 year old still have worth? 13 year olds are a lot trickier than a 3 year old or a 3 month old. But the worth of a human being doesn't ever change. But we often perceive that we lose. It's like it's, it's like we start out at 100 and as we go through life we have experiences that we suddenly are, Now I'm at 50%, now I'm at 25%. It's almost like this, this declining bank account.

If we look at what you just said, I, if it's perfectly with something, I often say it is only life's experiences that make us question our true identity, our true worth. So if you have had life experiences that make us make you question your worth, that is usually where we find the trauma or the trigger point that needs to be resolved. Because usually there's a memory or some kind of experience that is truly indicative of something's wrong with me. How many times in your career have you seen clients come into your office and when you start looking at memories and they can almost always pinpoint a specific memory is like, oh, my dad did. My mom said, my teacher said, the girl rejected me. There's almost always an experience where they begin to question themselves.

So let's go back to your story about you with your art. What grade was that again?

I think that was, let's see, that would have been fourth grade.

Fourth grade. And this is so common for so many kids where the creativity kids are like, here's a green hippo with purple polka dots and five legs or whatever it is, and I'm so proud of it. And then everybody says hippos don't have, they're not purple with polka dots or whatever. And we have that experience and somebody tells us or we interpret something and say, oh, I'm not a good artist. And we cut off that imagination, we cut off that playfulness and we shift. And I think this is a good place to also just talk about. We have parts. When we have trauma, we Often have parts to say, you are not a good artist. We'll never show that to anybody again. Now you're good at baseball, so you're going to work on sports. Or we have these ships where we have a part come in. And if any, if you've seen, to our listeners, if you've seen the movie Inside out, it does such a good job of kind of showing us these little parts. And we do have parts, especially when there's trauma and they show up to help us function. It's part of our survival. These parts show up to help us survive.

And when we look at our own lives, what happens is these conclusions that we draw with. Why do we draw a conclusion of our worth and our value, our intelligence? Why do we draw a conclusion of whether someone likes us or doesn't like us? It's a human nature for us to make sense of this world around us. But why do we draw these conclusions? Because often our conclusions, really, our conclusions need to be movable. Mercurial phrase we might use. They need to be adaptable. Because when you can adapt things, you're going to see yourself in a different way. You going to see the people around you. It's like, I wonder if. And that question, I wonder if or maybe I'm wrong. What if that's not accurate? And now you're starting to see some of these conclusions and some of the really important things. So a couple gets married. They are in, enthralled. They love each other, they're excited. This is the best thing ever, right? And so someone finally loves me. I've grown up in a home where there was rejection and pain and all this stuff. And someone finally loves me. And this is my. I don't know, this is the. The bride that I just. She saved me or he saved me. Five years, ten years down the road. Conflict, tension, betrayal. Now I've put my identity into this person and into this relationship. I've drawn a conclusion. We usually. My worth, my value. I am. And in. In the research that I've gathered with sexual betrayal, Marianne, I asked a question. I feel like I'm not good enough because of my partner's sexual betrayal. I feel like I'm unlovable. And well over 50% of people answer yes to those questions more often than not or always. I feel like I am not enough. I feel like I am unlovable. I feel like I am stupid. The internalization of something like is powerfully painful. A sexual betrayal triggers these conclusions that I'm not enough.

Oftentimes when you're betrayed. It doesn't make sense. Trauma doesn't make sense. And so when we have experiences that don't make sense, we do internalize it. We say, it must be me. There must be something wrong with me because that's a person that, that I care for or I respect or I value. And so there must be something. So we internalize it. One thing that I've learned from, from you, Dr. Skinner, is there's always a story. And in, in the book the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, he, he talks about the power of water. And, and I, I remember being in a training and, and learning this and it was so impactful for me. But he said, water by itself has no power. So when I'm sharing this with a client, I, I usually have like a quart of water and I'll hold up wherever, you know, here's my water. This has no power. But if I move it, if there's force, if there's gravity, if there's wind, water can be devastating. Water can suck you under. Water can demolish house. I mean, it is so powerful, it can create electricity. But our brains and who we are, we can't open up our brain and say, there's the part that's. Marianne, let me just like pinpoint that. Our brain is formed by our beliefs. Just like water, when it's pushed on, it can move and do other things. Our belief systems, the stories we tell ourselves, are what create our neural pathways. What the perceptions of how others see us or we see ourselves then impacts how we respond, how we react, what we do. And that's what creates how our brains structure, which is fascinating.

So Marianne, what you're saying, we have to these parts, you can't just separate this one out because it's a part of an integrated whole, which means in a bigger frame, I conclude things about myself and, and when it comes to traumatic events, others don't love me. I'm not good enough. And then there is another part of us that says, yeah, yes, you are enough. That's the fight inside of us. That's the part of us that says, no, that's not acceptable. That's not true. And, and there truly is this internal battle within ourselves. The same is true of the person who's been acting out. The, the self worth battle of people who act out in my career has been absolutely phenomenal. The internal dialogue, nobody will love me. My partner, my spouse will leave me. I will let everybody down. I'm a failure. And that fuels that shame. Because the conclusion is I can't tell with anybody, anybody this, I'm going to my grave with it. And the overall consequence of that mindset is extremely painful because people live in it for years and years and years because they've concluded there's something wrong with them.

And let's. Can we take that a little bit further? I 100% agree because what you're describing is what I, and I think most therapists that work in our field see every day, all the time. But if we take that one step further and look at if I believe that, what's that going to do to my physiology? It means I'm going to probably have my head down, I'm not going to make eye contact as much. I may not be as outgoing or I might be hiding it and I might, you know, have a whole alter self. But if I look at the disconnection I'll have in my relationships, the isolation, whether I've been the betrayed partner thinking I'm not good enough, I'm not thin enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not sexual enough, I'm not desirable enough for whatever reason, or I'm the monster that nobody once. Because if they knew my secret as a betrayer, if they knew, if they really knew, they. I wouldn't be loved, I would be rejected. If I'm looking at what's that, what that's doing, how that's impacting how I'm interacting outwardly, these are isolating behaviors. And it's fascinating to see when we're confident, when we're self assured, when we are feeling full and free, our shoulders are back, our head's high, we're engaging. And when we're not, we're often disconnected and down. It's so much harder to connect from that place or to even feel or receive love from others from that space.

It's our body language, it's our tone of voice, it's. It's that internalized confidence or lack thereof. See, what happens to us in a traumatic event is we lose that worth. And the conclusions we draw live with us. It's the filters through which we see life. We see things that are positive or negative. We see how people are going to interact with us. And I can see somebody's look. And if my self worth is low, I could see your look. Oh, they're mad at me, they don't like me, they're displeased. And so I've come to read people through the filter that I see life.

Where the converse might be, they're having Gas, they're working on a problem, they just saw something they're trying to make.

Sense of, or they're frustrated with work and they're stressed out. But I don't check into that because I've already concluded, assumed that I know what's actually happening there. And so what I'd like to now shift our attention to Marianne is this idea. How do we reclaim it? How do we come back to that self? And I say that literally come back to yourself. Because as we said in the beginning, we're all born with high self worth. Something I truly believe we are all born with high self worth. And it is only those life's experiences that make us question that worth. So coming back to yourself, coming back to that true worth is really the journey that we're all on. Every one of us are on this journey. So how do we do it?

And that's such a broad question. How do we get back to this space of loving ourselves or seeing ourselves maybe clearly because of all the misinformation or the perceptions that we've had? This is some of our life work is coming to a space where we can really see ourself clearly. I do believe I love to do parts work with my clients. Because inherently, inside of us, there is usually a part that can be honest. There's usually a wise, nurturing, loving part that can help us see clearly. And being able to stop and say, hold on a second, is this my inner critic? Maybe I need to name my inner critic. Okay. And questioning, is this true? Is this really true for me? What if it weren't true for me? How would I act or react if that wasn't true? So questioning our stories, really looking at our story. And this is where I think helpful supports can come in handy. Here's the story, or even fact checking, here's the story that I'm telling myself. Can you help me with this? Is this true? We need other people's feedback to help us sometimes sort through our own.

Especially. Especially when we can't get out of our own thoughts, our own way to. Is this accurate? Is this not accurate? Because when you've drawn a conclusion, it's like you've cemented it into your mind. We consolidated it to the point where there's. You don't even question it anymore. It's just a truth.

Yeah.

Now usually the problem with that is when we fly solo, that way it influences our interaction with other people. So we start to see things like I pull away from, I isolate. I'm lonelier because I literally have pulled away. I've pulled away. And then I stop interacting with confidence. I stop being with people, with showing them respect, because I'm not, I don't respect myself.

You know, Dr. Skinner, as you're talking about this, I'm reminded years ago I was with a group of women, they were so accomplished. And I may have shared this here before. I apologize to our listeners if you're getting a redo on this story. But I was with this group of women that were so amazingly accomplished in so many ways. Not just accomplished, but they were kind, they were good, they were showing up, doing just acts of service and just amazing women that I really admired greatly. We were in a room and somebody said, hey, while you're chatting, I'd like for you to just like share with each other three things that make you awesome. That room went silent and nobody wanted to talk to anybody because nobody knew how to say, here are the three things that I'm, that I'm awesome at. I could make lists that were, you know, 300 things about each of these ladies. But we struggle to see ourselves and we struggle to see because we have these stories, we have these messages that we carry. And I do think it is helpful to find people that we trust who can help us to see ourselves because we see others so well, yet we have the critic in the back of our head that often gives us a whole different story from what we see and what others see in us.

You know, Marianne, there's this story and I, I think you can actually YouTube this and see it, but it's where they actually have somebody and they do this for the entire class, but they have everybody, they pass out these little post it notes and the person sitting down. And then they all put a characteristic or a trait of this person. They've been interacting with them for maybe a school year or a period of time. And then they go put it on the whiteboard, all these traits about this person. And the person looks, you know, turns around after, after everybody's, you know, been doing this and they see what everybody sees and thinks about them. You're kind, you're caring, you're smart, you're a good friend, you make me laugh. And all of a sudden these self perception, like, where did I get this conclusion that somehow I'm not enough, that people don't like me? And usually it's because of our own misbehaviors. So when I see someone who's acting out, they've come to a conclusion. I've got this secret, this hidden behavior People won't like me. The people that I've interacted with in my career, when they struggle with Selfworth, usually there's an event that they experienced or that they engaged in that has triggered that lower sense of worth.

Yeah. Because they interpret it or they were told something. There's a fantastic exercise we often use where we might make a list of some of the worst experiences or the most shameful experiences. And we might say, here's what happened. Just a brief bullet. I know what it is. I don't have to explain the whole thing. But what did other people say about it? Or how did they react about it? What did I believe about it? And then looking at it, saying what's really true about it. When I go through this with clients. Oh, it's such a. Oftentimes an illuminating and a healing process to say, oh, I was a third grader. Oh, I didn't know. I was doing the very best that I could. And. And that person, they were dealing with their own junk right then. And their reaction wasn't about me, it was about them. Oh. And it just. We can change our stories when we can slow down and really look at things and maybe see them a little bit more clearly.

So core step there is to step back, a phrase we often use. Be curious and evaluate the conclusions that you've drawn about yourself. And in that situation, it's unpacking it to the point that was a three. Third grader. That was a third grader of, well, of course there's bullies or of course there's gonna. You don't know everything. And so I can look back on that event and I can see it in a different way. The same is true of how we perceive people. There are times where we go back and we look in our past and we have maybe a little bit more awareness of our parents approach to something that they said or did. We go, oh, that's what they were experiencing. And, and. And so the conclusions we draw if we don't question them, if we stick with them, wow. The danger of it, because we conclude things that are so often they're negative, they're pessimistic, I'm unwanted, I'm not loved. And whether we've been in and are in trauma or whether we're in addiction, we have to be careful of the conclusions that we draw. Because if we aren't careful, we will come to conclusions that define us down is how I often say it. They define us, not who we actually are. Everybody listening, whether you want to accept this or not, you're of incredible worth. You have incredible value. You matter. You're of infinite worth. And I hope you hear that.

I just want to say amen to that. We are all born with infinite worth. We never ever lose it. And I want to really encourage our listeners to seek out support the people who can help you to challenge the thoughts and the beliefs, find safe people to help you. As you're looking at how do I build my self worth? This is where, especially when we're doing recovery work for betrayal, trauma and sex addiction, this is one of the reasons why we need support groups. We need people outside of ourselves to help us see clearly. Because when we're in trauma or when we're in shame, we absolutely do not see ourselves clearly. And we need the perspective of others. We need that support and that vision that others have that they can see in us.

So I'm going to give our listeners five steps to reclaiming your worth. Okay, you ready?

I'm ready.

So step number one is you actually have to identify what you think and feel about yourself. And you need to do it authentically. It has to be something that you truly like. This is how I think about myself. And put yourself in different scenarios. How do I see myself in relationships? How do I see myself in academics or my job? Am I. How do I perceive self? And, and be honest, you might think you're the best, but are you?

And this sounds like this is something you probably want to write down.

Oh, for sure.

Really writing it down to, to look at it, to see it and to really take time to reflect on. Not just like while I'm driving, thinking, oh, what do I think about that? That can be helpful. But this is a writing exercise. It sounds like.

Yes. And again, this might be a 30 minute writing exercise. This whole experience. So for one is identifying conclusions or beliefs that you've formed about self. Number two, once you've done that, stop and look at where or what life experiences have led you to those conclusions. Like what would validate whatever, whatever the belief is, whatever the statement is. I am, I'm a good student. Well, where did you draw that conclusion? Well, my teachers told me, my mom told me, my dad told me, everyone's told me throughout my entire life that I'm just smart. I mean, right. Okay, so I've drawn that conclusion. How about you? Where did you get it from? Where did, where, where did I. When did I internalize that that is a truth? I actually believe that is truth.

Can I add a caveat to that too?

Yeah, yeah.

Because I think sometimes with early childhood trauma or abuse, this may be just like deep down embedded. We might not have a specific. I can say it came from here, or I know exactly what it is. And so being able to give yourself some openness to say, I'm not 100% sure, but I like recognizing that it's there, even if I don't have the origin or the genesis of it.

You probably will have a memory where you felt like something was off or wrong. So if I've experiencing something traumatic, often when I work with clients who've experienced some kind of sexual or physical or emotional abuse, usually it's from those experiences that the conclusions have been drawn. If I was better, my parents wouldn't have, or if I was better, this event would not have happened to me. So the conclusion may come from that traumatic or difficult event. And that's often the case that I've experienced in my career. So you may not have all of the memories, but you might have a bigger event. And I acted different after XYZ occurred.

So what you're saying. Because I think I was talking more about some of the things that we have pre memory, like when we're two or three, six months or whatever. But what I'm hearing you say is even if that's the case, you will have later memories where you still had that belief, where you had internalized something.

From every event, we draw a conclusion. Good, bad, indifferent, it doesn't matter. Every event, everything we experience.

Not safe. Yeah, okay, great.

And so now we've got that. So now I'm, I'm taking, I'm breaking down events or experiences that led me to that conclusion. Now step number three, you're going to bring it to the jury. How accurate is this? Right. Are there any other experiences that would discount my conclusion? You may or may not come up with alternatives. I, I often find that when I do this with individuals who in your life has been warm, caring, kind, who's validated you, who's been there with you. And I have individuals, I literally have met individuals in my career who say, I don't know if I've ever felt that from anybody. And so there are times where it's like people aren't trustworthy. Everybody's let me down. I can't think of anybody who hasn't let me down. And those are individuals who have very complex trauma because everything in society has let them down. And. And yet most people, I say most, not all, it was my grandma, it was my best friend in high school. It was my Second grade teacher. And, and the conclusion is. Wait a second. Let's say your grandma, was she wrong? Right. So the jury is. Is the conclusions and all of the things are. Is there something that may lead me to think that these things aren't actually true? Oh, well, my best friend. Well, does she feel like you're not enough?

Let me just clarify. I just want to clarify. Are you saying the grandma's the resiliency or the best friend? Is the, Are they the. The positive voice or are they the negative voice? I just.

They're the positive voice in this situation. Right. So Grandma said, sweetheart, you're incredible. Come sit on my lap and, and eat this raisin cookie.

So if we have that. When we're looking at adverse childhood experiences versus benevolent childhood experiences, when they're saying, how do kids survive when they have so many adverse experiences, the research shows us that just even having that one person, that one positive person who sees us in a positive regard, who we feel loved from, is a huge resilience factor. So this is really important.

So, so that's interesting. So let's say that five people have let me down, but one was there for me. And I conclude my worth based upon which one? The one or the five? See, the problem with that is I. I can lean into the one person and say, yeah, but that was my grandma. That was my mom. That was my. Whatever. That's why people often let us down. Grandma died. She's gone. No, she's not. The memory who she was with you, that's still there. You can still feel grandma's love. You can still feel her touch. You can go into that memory and you can hug her all over again.

You know, that's, as you say, that I'm just thinking like, how evocative it is, that positivity. I had a client at one point whose grandmother didn't speak the same language, but he knew Grandma loved him. And when he talked about grandma who wasn't here anymore, he would still break into tears because he knew grandma loved him even though she didn't even have. He didn't understand her words. He knew.

Yes. Beautiful example. Store. So step three is bring it to the judge and the right. The, the.

The.

The judgment that you've made and ask the question, is it possible that I'm wrong? And then go searching, go searching for alternatives, people, events or experiences where you did it right. You were enough. Which leads us to the fourth step. Bring it there and, and compare them and say, why am I weighing it this way? So now it's a self. Why? What is it that? Why am I valuing it this way? Why am I seeing it this way?

So I have a quick thought about that, Dr. Skinner, when you're talking about that, can I be wrong? I'm going back to your. Your little artist self. That little artist self was probably great. You did the best that you could and you were so proud of it when you waited out looking at everybody else's or everybody else voted. That was their perception. They're probably voting for their own as well. But were you a good artist? You probably were. You did the best you could with the tools you had at the time.

Sure.

And fantastic.

And there were better. I mean, the girls in the class did way better. They really were. I mean, I can. But I'm saying, was mine good enough? Sure, mine was enough.

Because you don't need to compare it to anybody else's. It was your best.

Absolutely right. And there it is. It was my best. So again, as we compare, as we look at ourselves, we examine which that step four is really giving yourself this chance to look at the self. And then the fifth step is probably the most crucial one. Can I have self compassion on myself here? Or am I staying in this place of oh, nope, not enough. Can I have some compassion for those life events and look at it from the lens of self love, not arrogance, not right. Literally looking at self and saying, wow, look at all these ways that this has influenced my life. These thoughts, these emotions, these experiences have influenced my life. So as you do that and you reflect on it, you get literally with self compassion there. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

I want to. I would want to add a couple more questions to that. Yeah, go like, so this isn't part of your formula, but maybe we'll tack them on. But just even asking these introspective questions, how does this thought help me? What's it protecting me from? Is it protecting me from not doing math and failing? Or how does it help me really looking at like, what's the purpose of these thoughts? Are they helpful? Are they harmful? And why are they showing up? Because they're showing up for a reason. And so if I can really look deeply inside, this is such an introspective exercise. We, we often have these secondary gains or these protections that set us up. You saying, oh, I'm not good at art, meant that maybe you didn't do that anymore and then you didn't feel embarrassed or shame when everybody didn't vote for you.

Sure.

And that protects you from that. So recognizing there's usually a reason why. And how does this help me? And does it really? And how would I be if I didn't have this belief? What would I do? How would I think, how would I act if I didn't have this belief?

Yeah. Great. Fantastic additions. So to our listeners, these are examples or an example of how you can go through, take yourself through the journey, through the experience. And my promise is this, if you'll be open minded, do the reflection, go through these steps and what you'll discover is something unique about you. Maybe you're not who you thought you were. You're better.

You're amazing.

Yes, you are amazing. If you want to reclaim your self worth, we've given you some ideas. Now take it, apply it. There's one other thing that we'll probably have to do another podcast on, or maybe we've already done it, but that is this. Take that and let it influence your relationships. So it's a concept of interacting with others with high self worth, not, not arrogance, but how we are in relationships. When our self worth is present, we create boundaries, we're confident, we're playful because we know who we are. High self worth is actually a core way that we can help. Our entire society is coming back to who we really are.

And I think that that's the way I would sum that up, Dr. Skinner, is that my relationship with myself is going to impact every relationship that I have. And so I do have to start with compassion and kindness and doing some, some self work to really see myself as I truly am.

Awesome. All right, to our listeners, we want to say thank you so much for being with us today. Final thought is this. You are of infinite worth and value. Don't, please, please, please don't. Forget it. You were born that way. And now we're just trying to get you back to who you really are.

Because it never changed.

That's right. All right, the human intimacy conference. March 14th and 15th. Put it on your calendars in the show notes for this podcast. If you click on them, you'll find a coupon code. But here's what I'm going to be doing. This is, this is until the conference begins. For those who sign up, they're going to get my free 100 day course for betrayed partners. If their partner, they sign up together, their partner will get my 100 days to help them overcome unwanted sexual behaviors. It's a 200 value. You sign up for the conference. Basically you can sign up and get a half discount. What that means is you're Going to get an incredible package, $200 for both of those courses.

And let me, yeah, let me put that into some context. Yeah, let me put that into some context for, for our listeners because you're signing up for a two day conference with, with presenters with over 400 years of experience. Experts talking about relationships, about sex addiction, betrayal, trauma, divorce and healing the coupleship. So you get that two days and you've got access to that moving forward and you get Dr. Skinner's courses, these hundred day courses. It's almost three months worth of work and materials that you're getting with that. So it's not just a two day conference, it's you're also getting. So if you're looking at it for both partner, like, that's almost six months worth of access to these, these courses, which are phenomenal courses.

So please join us. We'll put the link in the show notes. And one final thought. With this conference, you said 400 years. These are incredible experts. This last week we all met together, those who were able to make it and so much fun hearing what they're going to be talking about and what they're going to be presenting on. They're ready, they're excited. So please come join us. I guarantee you will be satisfied with the outcome. If not, I'll refund your money.

Oh, that's fantastic. I know. I was part of that meeting and I sat there and went, oh, I can't wait to go to that class and that class and that class and that class. It's going to be phenomenal.

Yeah. All right. Thank you so much to our listeners. We appreciate you and your time may be blessed in all that you do. And Marianne, thank you very much.

Yep, thank you. Something surround you.

It's like you're shining, you're staring.