The Gift of Your Presence: Why Showing Up Matters More Than You Think (Episode #98)

There's something about you that I can't help but smile. When you smile and laugh. When you laugh, something's around.

Welcome to the human intimacy podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner with Marianne Miklist, licensed clinical social worker. Marianne, this time of the year, Christmas trees, lights. Regardless of whether you're religious or not, it's often a time where we celebrate things that are coming to an end. The New Year's coming up and the holidays, just beautiful time of the year. And so we want to talk about the gift of your presence, and I'd love to hear your initial thoughts on that, Marianne.

First of all, Dr. Skinner, I love that play on words. I just have to smile. The gift of your presence, such as we're talking about a time of year when we're often thinking about, what can I give this person? What type of a present can I give that person? So just brings a smile to my face. First of all, just that play on words. And I think there's a couple of different ways that we can look at this. And the first thing that comes to my mind is one of my daughters recently graduated. And what was fascinating for me was she was like, this isn't that big of a deal, Mom. And I was like, no, but this is a big deal. And we traveled two full days to get there and back. And other people, lots of other people, travel just to be there for a moment, just to be present, to watch her do something, to. To do a ritual signifying that she had done something big, that she had accomplished something. And for her, it was like, yeah, this isn't that big of a deal. But just to be present, to witness something in somebody else's life. I think that's what we're talking about today.

Yeah. And you describe it. The physical presence. Your physical presence. Like, you could have said, hey, here's a gift. Congratulations. And she probably would have been fine. But the message is a different kind of a message. It says, you matter. Your hard work, pay. You know, it's important to us that you. You. You did this. And I don't want to just sit back in the background and just let it go by, because I could do that. And maybe we do that in many situations. People say, it's not that big of a deal. Okay, it's not that big of a deal. But it's a different kind of message, Marianne. And it's. It's physical presence, but it's also a message. You matter. And that's something that I think is really important. When we interact with people, our presence can help people feel like we care. You matter to me. And to me, that's the message that I want us to consider as we approach the holiday season. A concept of, am I showing people that they matter in my presence? And my initial thought for this, Marianne, was thinking about how distracted we are with our devices. And somebody comes into a room, they're leaving at the end of the day, or they just get home from being out or away for something. And I wonder, are we present with them in that leaving or that separation between us? And when we're in the same room, are we present with each other, or are we constantly on our devices, checking this, checking that, and not really attending to each other? And so I wonder if maybe the gift we could give this season is our presence in our just being with people present without our devices, without our mind racing here and there. I got to get this done. I got to go shopping. I got to buy this gift. I got to do that. But just taking time to slow down and be present with the people who we say are most important to us.

As you're talking about that attending to people. I've been doing a little bit of traveling these last couple of weeks, and so I'm fascinating. As you know, I have a dog, and it's fascinating when we walk in the door, especially this last trip, my dog went berserk. He went from my husband to me to my daughter, like in a triangle. And he couldn't figure out where to share his love, and he just kept going and going. And finally I had to just sit on the floor and just touch him and pet him and be with him. He just wanted so badly to tell me how much he was so glad that we were all home, that we were there. And I wish, as humans, we did that more. As you're talking about walking in the door and people being on their cell phones or, you know, my dog, it doesn't matter. He is just, like, thrilled to see me. And it. He doesn't know if it's been 10 minutes or if it's been 10 hours or 10 days. He's just like, where have you been my whole life? I'm so excited.

So doggone it. I think you're saying that canines are better at showing love than the rest of us.

I think that they don't have a lot of the inhibitions that we get, a lot of the social anxieties, a lot of, like, this is awkward. I don't know what to do. Should I hug you or not? Yeah. My dog's really just saying, hey, I'm here. I'm so glad to see you.

And are we afraid to give that gift of our presence? Are we comfortable being with people, being curious? So, Marianne, as I was thinking about this, looking at some show notes and preparing for today, I had a thought, and it was, how curious are we into each other's life? So if I said, marianne, what was the best thing that happened to you this year? The question in and of itself elicits thoughts, and it gets you thinking about, well, let's see what happened in my year. But what the message sends is, I want to know something about you. And then I thought, okay, well, if you reciprocated and asked me the same question, you know what I'd answer. So this year has been a whirlwind of lots of cool things. Our daughters were serving a mission for our church, and they came home in March. Phenomenal experience. And as we go through the year, we've had grandchildren born. And so I have two grandchildren that have been born this year, which is absolutely phenomenal, really cool. And being a grandpa is phenomenal. And then I had a daughter get engaged, and she gets married next week. If I look at this year, so many wonderful highlights. And so I share that. And now our listeners know a little bit about the Skinners. But that presence, somebody saying, okay, Marian, your turn. I want to know. Best thing of your year, Dr. Skinner.

It's interesting. I think it was this morning. I got a message on my phone. I got a message on my phone, and I clicked on it, and I think it might have been from Google Photos. It was all the photos on my phone. And it basically said, like, here's a compilation of everything that you've done this year or the things that we think were kind of interesting this year. And it went through, like, a whole little slideshow of all these things. And I was. I was surprised. Oh, I forgot that. Oh, I forgot that. Wow. It was amazing to me just to think about the things that I've experienced. One of the most significant things that happened to me is somebody asked me a question regarding going to Washington, D.C. and advocating regarding the amicus brief in the Supreme Court case, that I was involved, you know, that I helped co author the amicus brief for. And they said, are you going to. Are you going to D.C. for this? And I said, well, now it's in D.C. and they said, well, why aren't you going? Why not? Those words. Like, for me, this year, that was one of the biggest things that happened, is somebody said, why Not. And, you know, I got to present at ITAP at a symposium, and I got to present professionally at the symposium, this conference of professionals. And yeah, there have been things. I went up into the mountains and cooked at a girls camp for a week in a boys camp. I've done a lot of things this year, but I forget. It's so easy for me to look back and go, oh, yeah, I did that, but I've already forgotten it. I think in talking to strangers, I believe he talks about how we carry a negative bias. We maybe forget the good things and we remember the bad things. So I've noticed, for me, it's sometimes it's hard for us to remember the really good things that we've experienced.

And so in asking the question and really being interested, right? Like, if I say, that's interesting, I mean, you went to Washington, D.C. and did something, somebody challenged you. That, that's really cool, Marianne. I mean, it really is cool. And then presenting at itap, they don't accept every presenter. And so that. That's phenomenal experience. And so if I just sit there and say, wow, Marianne, you sounds like you've had a very busy year and your daughter's graduated. That's a cool thing as a parent. Professionally, you've had a success. And as we go into that conversation, it just. Just having that dialogue, you know, as.

I was sitting at the airport probably about a week ago, waiting, we. I'd been on a Red Eye flight, flying all night long, and I was sitting at the airport waiting for my next flight, and I started chatting with a guy, I think he was probably 23 years old, sitting next to me. And I heard he was from la. I learned that he was in school, he was studying, he wanted to probably be an attorney and wanted to work in some human rights advocacy. And you're right, I started having a conversation with him. I learned about his life growing up and him moving to a little teeny farming town in Washington. And then he asked me something and I said, I was like, oh, well, if you want to hear. And I jumped on. I told him all about going to D.C. and how exciting it was for me and how much I loved advocating for children to protect children online. And it was. It's the curiosity when even sitting talking to a stranger in the airport, it was really cool because when we ask the right questions, we're thrilled. We want to talk about ourselves, we want to share our worlds with each other, we want to be seen and heard, but it's taking the time to slow down he was actually working on a resume. And I was like, oh, are you working on a resume? We started talking about AI, and that's how we got there. But it is about that curiosity that you're talking about of being present with somebody and being curious and saying what's going on for you.

One of my favorite quotes, Dan Siegel, he talks about a concept that is really applicable here. He was finishing up with a client, and that client was getting ready to move on after doing a year of work with him. And he wrote about this in one of his books. As I was reading, he said, this client was getting to. Ready to leave and move to a different state. And so I thought, what a great opportunity for me to evaluate the year of work that we've done together and the progress that this client has had. He. So he said, hey, I'm curious, what has really stood out in the therapy that we've done together over the last year for you? And she looked up and she said, oh, that's easy. She said, you made me feel felt. Those two words resonate with me often when I think about my job as a therapist, and I think about the being present with people, celebrating their joy, finding joy in others joy, and being with them in their suffering. See, the gift of our presence in my mind is that I'm with people and I'm excited when they have joy, and I'm also with them when they're suffering. And at some point, Marianne, as I think about this, our presence actually does something to their autonomic nervous system. Our presence can make people stressed. Our presence can help people feel calm. So your presence, thinking about it, what climate do I bring into this relationship? Am I a calming influence, or am I. Do I make people anxious? The gift of our presence is actually we're able to help people deal with stress. We're able to be with people in their suffering, and we celebrate when they celebrate. And that, to me, is the gift of our presence. Today, my son had a basketball game, and he hasn't really participated in a lot of basketball games. And so this is maybe in his life, his second or third game. He's a sophomore in high school, and he's playing City League, and so this is really foreign to him, but he's been playing all week long with my family and with his sisters, and his sisters are really good basketball players. Just. Just shout out to my girls. They are phenomenal, and they love basketball. So he's now learning, and he's. So we're all there cheering him on today, and he Had a phenomenal put back at the end of the game and put the team into overtime. And we're all celebrating this experience together. Our presence with him, celebrating his joy. And then those are the kind of things that bring us together, our relationships. And to me, that Marianne is the gift of our presence, our family supporting each other. What you did with your daughter at her graduation, the message is you matter to us. And our hope is that we help people feel felt when we were with them.

I love what you're talking about with your son and his basketball game, because I could almost just. I know you got a crowd, and I can imagine for your son how beautiful that was. And it reminded me of two things. As you were talking about Dan Siegel and about that feeling felt. There's another therapist named Irving Yalom who you've probably heard of, and I remember one of his books, him talking about him and. And he's old school. He was, you know, probably before the Internet, but he talked about conducting an experiment with one of his clients. And they would write a letter, they would write down at the end of the session. This is what was really helpful for me in this session. And this is what I thought was a key takeaway. And then they would. I can't remember if they mailed it to each other or they brought it back. And he said, you know, he'd have these brilliant, insightful, like this, like, we've solved all your problem moments. And she came back and she said, that was really nice when you said that I. That you noticed that I was wearing a new skirt and that I looked nice. And so thinking about that, it is just that it didn't matter for her what really an intervention or breakthrough. He had had this light bulb idea. It was really about her feeling noticed. And then I was thinking about, as you were talking about your son with. With his basketball game a couple of years ago, I had a mom come to me who said, you know, my kids, they're. They're. They don't need me anymore. When they were little, they really needed me, but I just don't really feel like I'm really needed. And I told that, mom, why don't you go to your daughter's basketball game? And I want you to just watch. I want you to take a little notepad and just make a tally for every time she looks, she looks for you. And within the first 10 minutes, my client was blown away by how much her daughter was looking for approval. And I know we've talked about this before, but thinking about that as Children, we. Children don't hold back to. Children let their emotions out. They let you know when they're sad. They let you know when they're happy. And I think one of the things I want to make sure that we're talking about here is all of these ways that we are looking for approval. We are looking to be seen. We are wanting to be seen. That's so important. And it's really tricky. I think sometimes when we walk into the room, as you were saying, our presence is so powerful. And I think we also live in a world where it can be tricky, because I. I might have a lot of anxiety. I might not know how to interact with people, and I might be carrying that with me when I come in the room. And that also impacts our relationships. And. And. And so I just want to make sure we're talking about that as well, too, because sometimes I'm carrying a lot with me, sometimes I'm carrying a lot of emotions with me, and wherever I go, they're with me, and they show up whether I want them to or not.

Maybe I am coming into a room and I am feeling overwhelmed or I'm feeling anxious. I've just had some children finishing up a semester of college. The energy of that is extremely stressful. I have the opportunity to interact with a lot of young adults, 180 of them. Last Monday, we decided what we were going to do is we were. As they were going through finals, we were going to find a way to feed them, and it was just so delightful. They get together, and they're talking about their battle wounds of going through tests and finals, and they're just supporting each other. And then they did a wide elephant exchange, the gift exchange. Marianne. It just. I looked back and I'm like, oh, it just is so cool how they support each other. I think that's what I'm. The Human Intimacy podcast is designed to get us to think about our human relations, our human connections, our human intimacy. And as I watched them the other night, they're playing games and they're just clapping for each other. And it's just a beautiful thing when we see the world functioning with human connection in contrast with the isolation and the loneliness. And as I am looking more and more at what people are now calling our newest pandemic, which is loneliness, I think that's just the opposite. And so the gift of our presence is I'd invite our listeners. Every one of you, make a list of people who've had a positive impact on your life, maybe even people with whom You've had conflict and challenges and find a way to interact with them, to send them some thing that says, I'm thinking of you because you matter. And that would be a challenge I'd give to all of us. Last night, I had this incredible experience with one of our granddaughters, Marianne, and she was just laughing and just my daughter was playing with her and she was laughing. And when. When 6 to 8 months olds laugh, Marianne, it's just, I don't care who you are, you just melt. It's so incredible. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to share this with my dad because I don't get to spend a lot of time with my dad. He lives in Idaho. So I sent it to my dad and he sends it back. So sweet. Right? It's just we can even connect and say, I'm thinking about you from a distance if we do it right. But that means we're thinking about people and we're reaching out and we're saying, you matter to me. That's, to me, what we're trying to accomplish. Maria.

Oh, I loved what I saw in your eyes as you talked about your granddaughter and as you talked about sending that to your dad. I. I don't know the word for the emotions that I saw, but I saw some tenderness show up. Maybe that's the word I'd use. I definitely saw emotion show up for you as you talked about that. We need our rela. We need relationships. We need places to feel loved. We need places where we can walk in and we're welcomed. It might not be like my dog welcomes me. I mean, that. That would be ideal, but we don't get that every time. But we need to feel needed. We need a friend. We need to feel loved and welcomed. And I think more than anything, especially the season, as we're looking at, how can we look at others with curiosity as we're talking about this being, being present? I would love to invite our listeners to take a step back and to step into that curiosity that we were talking about. What I find is that everybody is carrying woes. Every one of us has challenges, has burdens, has really hard things. And I know I get wrapped up in. There's a lot of people that put on a really good show and things look really, really good on the outside. And we think, oh, they don't have any problems. They don't need anything. Da, da, da, da, da. You know, we just kind of maybe pass over them because we're not worried. There's nothing going, you know they're okay. We don't need to worry about them. But what I would say is, when we slow down, say, what's something that's hard for you right now? What's something that you're going through? What's on your mind? Just simple questions like that, I think, can just get us to such a different depth. And most of the time, as you talked about earlier, just that. That we all need to feel felt. And whether it's the person in the airport sitting next to you working on their resume, who's in college and wants to become an attorney because of the experiences they had, being bullied in high school after they moved from one place to another, whether it's a college graduate who's not sure about their future and what's going to happen, whether it's somebody having health problems or struggling with loneliness or mental health or depression or whatever it might be, we all carry burdens. We all carry wounds. And as we slow down and we become present with each other, there is something that happens. There's connection. I think that's what we're talking about. This is about the intimacy that we have as humans of allowing ourselves to be vulnerable and being seen by other people. And that is a gift. I think that we give the gift of our vulnerability to let people see into us as well as seeing into other people. So as we wrap up this podcast, my challenge is to let yourself be seen and to slow down and to see others and to look a little deeper.

I love that. Thank you, Marianne. And for me, it's really the ways that we can give a gift of our presence. If I've been holding a grudge, I can use forgiveness as a way to say, this hasn't been easy, but I want to learn how to forgive, and I want to learn how to move on. Another gift is showing and expressing love. We may not be great at expressing love and showing genuine love for people, but that heartfelt, I appreciate you means a lot to people. Find the good traits in people and accentuate them like you did great. It was so much fun watching my son today, Marianne, after, you know, he hasn't scored a point in his entire life, right? And today he scored four points. And just watching that, for me, as a parent, it's just a celebration of it. So expressing positive things, things that you see, you look nice in that sweater or, you know, you were so good with that person. I just wanted to acknowledge how good you were. These are just simple examples. But I invite everybody to take time to give yourself to someone else. Through your kindness, through your love, through forgiveness, through building somebody up, the gift of your presence makes the world a better place. And when we understand that concept, the world's better because we make it better. It doesn't happen on autopilot. We have to choose to be more loving. We have to choose to be somebody who's going to make this world a better place to live in. And that, Marianne, is my hope. So to our listeners, please know that we appreciate you taking the time. We know you're busy, we're busy people, so thank you for your time. Now, Marianne, I just want to invite all of our listeners one more time. The Human Intimacy conference is happening March 13th and 14th. We're going to have incredible experts, Dr. Jill Manning, Dr. Karen Strange. We're going to have some incredible people who've been through the healing and recovery process. If you go to Today's show notes, we've got a coupon 50 off. And if you go to their link you can get 50 off to the end of December. If you have not yet signed up, please come join us and let us for two days help you. We're going to record all sessions. So even if you can't make it live, come participate and we're going to give you the best we can. And we're going to have some pre conference sessions where you come do questions and answers with experts. We're going to do that again this year. So really excited for that, Marianne, and to our listeners, thank you for your presence with us today. We appreciate it.

Thank you, Dr. Skinner. It's been a great conversation. Smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh. Something surround you. It's like you're shining, you're siren.