The Transformative Power of Gratitude: How Noticing the “Why” Deepens Connection (Episode #94)

On behalf of me and Marianne Michaelis, I'd like to thank you for being a listener of our Human Intimacy podcast this year. It's always a privilege to spend time with you and I want to express my deep gratitude. If you are ready to take your healing and recovery to the next level, you're ready to deepen your healing and strengthen your connection and gain real tools for meaningful change. I invite you to join us and other Experts at the 2nd Annual Human Intimacy Conference where myself, Marianne and many other leading experts will come together for powerful teaching, live question and answer sessions and provide insightful pre conference conversations to help you get the most out of your conference experience. And right now, you can save 50% when you register before December 31st. Please don't miss this opportunity. Visit human intimacy.com and reserve your spot today.

Something about you that I can't help but smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh.

Welcome to the human intimacy podcast. Dr. Kevin Skinner with Marianne Michaelis, licensed clinical social worker. What are you grateful for, Marianne?

Dr. Skinner, today I took my dog out for a walk. And as I was out on that walk, I just noticed the sky was blue, the air was crisp, there were leaves on the ground. And I just noticed a sense of I'm just grateful for the sunshine. And I'm grateful to be. Just to be.

You know, it's interesting as we contemplate this time of the year where there's, you know, Thanksgiving here in the United States, the idea of, you know, what are we grateful for? And if I just pause and reflect, I could, you know, I think of the freedoms that we enjoy and the beautiful land that we live in. And I think of my family and I think of just the world around us. There's so many, so many good things, and yet we live in a world where it's easy to get lost and not see them. And so today I just want to invite our listeners to think about what are the blessings in my life, the things that are, I'm just so grateful for, but maybe I haven't taken the time to identify them. So, Marianne, let's go back and forth. Things that we're grateful for.

Well, I, I think the first one I always want to start with is my family. For me, I'm grateful for the people that are in my life that I share my life with.

All right, so then let's use the Martin Seligman's concept there. So you're grateful for your family. What is it about your family that makes you grateful?

I would say I think with my husband and kids, I'm grateful for the. The humor. I'm grateful for the inside jokes. I'm grateful for the sayings that we get and we just all laugh together. I have one daughter who's so witty, she's so, so quick, and she just has puns that she throws them out. And I am so grateful. It keeps me on my feet and it catches me by surprise. I'm grateful for my husband in that. The intellectual space that we share of talking about ideas, talking about concepts that. That for me, I love learning, and that's something that really keeps me on my feet. And I. For my immediate family, my kids and my husband, those are some areas that I really enjoy. But also today I had an experience where my oldest daughter, she has a really good heart, and I saw that today, and she. She just. She showed up in a way that surprised me and just made me so proud to know her and be in her life. What about you?

So I so appreciate that because we can keep it on a higher level, family. So you're grateful for your family, and that's where we usually stop our conversations. Oh, that's nice that you appreciate your family that you're grateful for. And then you all of a sudden went deeper and your emotions changed, and just as an observer, you went into details. That's the difference between gratitude and a deeper gratitude. And for me, I could. I was obviously my family, I've got eight children. My wife, we've been married 31 years, and I can go over each one of them for my wife, for her patients, and the intellectual conversations that we are having. She's just finishing up her degree in social work, so we can even have more meaningful conversations about working with individuals and just theories. And so it's beautiful. And then I think about each of my children and I and my grandchildren, and I could go through each one of them and I. And specifically, I'm gonna go to my son, who's on a trip right now to run a cross country race in Arizona this weekend. And before he left, it was just this loving embrace and a teenager who's willing to hug his dad. I just so grateful for that. And then I think about my mom, who, as we get ready for my daughter's wedding, she's been here helping with a quilt and taking time and just, you know, sitting here doing quilting for the sake of this podcast. I'm just trying to say to our listeners, don't stop at I'm grateful for my family. Go to the deeper version of the why? And you'll have a more meaningful experience. And that comes from Martin Seligman, when he talked about what we're grateful for and then identifying the why of it.

As I'm Hearing our conversation, Dr. Skinner, I also want to point out that our families can also be our greatest source of pain. I have some clients right now who are in such deep, deep pain because of situations with their families. They care about their families. They want connection desperately. They want to spend time together, yet because of whatever situation, they're unable to. And so we're talking about this depth of, I'm so grateful for this, and yet this can also be the other side of that can also be this is my deepest pain.

So true, Marianne. And so to those individuals, I have two or three thoughts. One is, is there a person who fits the role that we've been talking about? That, that grandparent who gave you a hug, who believed in you, that school teacher who spent extra time to help you learn, a friend's family who brought you in when things were difficult at your home? Go through life memories and identify the people who've had the biggest impact and find gratitude for them and those memories. That's one strategy. But as we have learned in our career, Marianne, there are people who literally will say, there has not been anybody who's been consistently there. And to those individuals, my heart hurts for you. And yet those same individuals I have found in group settings or in other settings, they have found their tribe, their people. And so it may take time to find those people, but when you do, it will be something that will be refreshing. So it's not as if it can't happen. It may take time to get in the environment with the right people, with people who can genuinely understand you. And I often, as I train therapists, Marianne, I. I will often say this. As a therapist, you may be the person that is their person until they can find and spread their wings or branches, so to speak, into a world. So for me, it's find your tribe, find your people. And my heart hurts when you haven't had it.

If I don't have it now, even connecting to my past, to connecting to where did I maybe have that? And can I use that as an anchor or as a resource to come back to? I think about in that context. I think about my grandmother and boy. I remember as a kid just going like, hey, Grandma, will you teach me to make rolls? And I went to her house, and I spent the entire day. She was kind of famous for her roles, but she spent the Whole day teaching me how to make rolls. And my grandma, I, I, I'm sure I was her favorite, but I think every grandkid thought that they were her favorite. But my grandma always had a positive regard. Always, always loved me. And so even in hard times, my grandma's been somebody that I've been able to, even just emotionally. She's not here anymore. But I go back and I think about times with my grandma, and that's something that at least helps me to recalibrate what I need.

That phrase you just use, she's not here anymore, is such an interesting one. She's here in so many ways.

Right?

And, and, and I hear as we go through grief and loss, because I've. My grandpa, he's here, but he's not alive. But he is alive through me and through my. Right. And so it's such an interesting phrase that we use because I think about the people who've had that kind of influence, because my guess is if I could have one of your roles at Thanksgiving, I'm going to guess it's probably really good, and it probably has a formula that your grandma taught you, right? And so it's so interesting. They're a part of us. And that's what I'm, I'm saying. Can we pause? And that's really what I'm after today. Can we pause and reflect on. On the things that are good in our life? Because there are people who've done good things, trained us, helped us, loved us, warmed us when we needed a hug. We all need it. Thich Nhat Hanh. Everybody needs somebody. I love that quote.

So I'm gonna share one of my favorite quotes here then with that as well, which just comes from Brene Brown, and I've said it here so many times, but we are wired. It is in our DNA. We are wired for love and connection. Same idea. But we are genetically created to need connection, to need to find our people, to feel loved, to give love and, you know, babies. I love, I love the concept of babies, the sympathy crying. When a baby hears another baby crying, oftentimes they'll start crying, too. And it's this, hey, I'm here with you. Here we are. And we all need that.

All right, so now I want to go on to the next thing that we're. I'm grateful for. You can go next. Okay. Marianne. I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunity to be a therapist and for the last 31 years, to sit in a chair where people have shared some of their most painful, difficult Experiences where they've dealt with marital issues, family issues, personal issues, and they've trusted me enough to let me into places that they may have never thought they would go with individuals. What a privilege it is to sit with people who have been suffering and be with them and witness and be with them in their suffering. I just. Marianne, it's just a privilege to do what we do. And I'm so grateful for the 31 plus years, thousands of people who've let me into their lives. What a privilege it's been.

I don't have your same legacy yet, but I can absolutely say amen to that. It is a sacred honor to watch my clients, to witness their pain, to witness their struggle, and then to have them say, you'll be so proud of me, Marianne. I had a client just this week say, I used a boundary. It was so scary, but it worked. It was amazing. This is so exciting. And to see that change and that growth, it is absolutely beautiful.

And when people say, I've never shared this with anybody before, the privilege that those moments are, they're sacred. As we reflect on those moments, they truly are. And so my gratitude from family into the people that I've had the privilege of interacting with over the last 31 years.

Yeah, I think a little, slight spin off of that for me is I am grateful for people who have shared their stories. I began my initial recovery work because somebody posted something on Facebook sharing their story, and I had no idea there were. You know, I didn't know the words betrayal, trauma. I didn't know what that meant. But suddenly it started me on a path that led me to where I'm at. But as I've worked on my own recovery, finding people who've had the courage to say, here's where I've been, here's what I've learned, here are the tools, Here is the research that has been for me a lifeline in my own recovery work and given me hope. And it's something I'm super passionate about, giving resources and to my clients and to providing them, even this podcast, being able to speak about, here's tools, here's resources. I'm so passionate about that because I needed that so much. And it's something that I always want to give pay forward, but I'm incredibly grateful for that.

People who paved the way, so to speak, for your experiences in learning and growth. Right. It's always beneficial to be in a situation where people have been through what we are going through or have been through, and knowing I'm not Alone.

Yeah. If I can deepen that, I would deepen that even more. To, say, giving hope, maybe the hope bringers or the people who give hope, when we share our stories and say, there is a way through this, when it's really dark at night and when you don't have hope, finding that in someone else's story, it's a lifeline.

Yeah. And again, it's individuals who've been through the suffering, and somehow they're making it, and it's like, okay, if they can, I can.

Yes.

So next for me, Marianne, it's actually a freedom. It's choice. And I think about the ability to make choices in life and learn to live with the consequences, good and bad. And I think it's such a privilege that we have the freedoms we enjoy because we are in a place where I can get in a car and I can drive somewhere and visit somebody, and it's a choice that I can do that. Other choices that just may seem that we take for granted, freedoms of religion or freedoms of being able to go to locations and fly and do things, I just think there's so many opportunities that we live with that it's so easy to overlook. I think about my grandfather, who was born in the early 1900s, and he traveled by wagon and horse 123 years ago to live in Idaho, where I grew up. And I think about how I get in a car, and it takes them days to. Took them days to do that, and I get in a car and I'm there in four or five hours. There are so many freedoms and blessings and whatever you want to call these things that we have the opportunities for, and it's such a blessing. I could get on a plane today and I could be in Europe tomorrow. It's just incredible. So I just. I guess I'm just grateful for all the things that make life fun and enjoyable in this world. Traveling, visiting people, being able to go, like, for Thanksgiving, we're going to go spend some time with family. And I'm just. We're going to get in a car and we're going to drive, which I'm grateful for. A car that functions, it's not horse and buggy. And I'm not going to say I'll see in a couple months to my employer. Right during the pandemic, Marianne, without zoom, I don't know what happens to therapy. So many blessings and technologies that have blessed our lives. I'm just so grateful for them.

I think for my next one, I would talk about the people who have gone before me. And maybe that's kind of a little bit along that same theme. Earlier. Earlier this week, I met a couple new people and we have an app where you can compare your, like, your genealogy, like, hey. And see if you're related to somebody near you. One of the people was like my third cousin and the other one was my fourth cousin. As we started to talk, I said, hey, do you know about this ancestor that we share? She was one of the first women doctors in Utah. And do you know about this person who went through some incredibly hard hardships? Neither of them knew about it, but there have been people in my ancestral line that as I've learned their stories, I have found strength from them. Like, this person did this incredibly hard thing. I have their blood and I carry some of them in me. As you said, my grandma's still with me and I can do hard things too. And so I'm really grateful for the wells that I drink from that I did not dig. As you're talking about traveling, I was thinking about just the roads. You know, we get in our car and we drive someplace. Somebody paved that road. I am grateful for those who paved the roads, who dug the wells, who did the work that I don't even, a lot of the time even think about.

And somebody planted a banana tree for my smoothie this morning so I could have spinach and a banana. And somebody grew that mango and so I could have a banana, mango, spinach, smoothie. Somebody did that. And all I did is put it in a blender, Put those things in a blender. After getting going to the store, I'm grateful that there's a store. I'm grateful there's a blender, but I'm grateful for all those things. And when we stop and break it down, and this is really my core point to our listeners. If you really want to have a meaningful Thanksgiving or a conversation with the people you care about, go through this exercise, spend a little bit of time thinking about the things that you're grateful for and why you're grateful for em. And here's my guarantee. You will have a meaningful conversation that can help you feel more joy, more happiness, because gratitude scientifically brings us more happiness.

So last year I started out the month really well. I didn't finish it all the way, but the beginning of the month last year I went through and every single day I just said I'm for 15, 20 minutes I'm going to just jot down everything I can think of that I'm grateful for. And I Was surprised because, you know, I'd think, oh, like I'm getting stuck writer's block or something. But then I'd get over the little hump and I'd be like, oh, my goodness, there's so much here. You know, I could just look around the room that I am grateful for the books. I'm grateful for the sunshine coming. I'm grateful for that plan. I'm grateful for my tongue. You know, there's so much there that I think what you're saying is we don't notice yet when we slow down. One of the tools that I learned that has been really helpful for me is I cannot manufacture happiness. I cannot. There's no light switch that says, hey, and now I will be happy. I can't manufacture emotions. However, the tool of gratitude, it is a tool that when I begin to say, I'm grateful for this, and I'm grateful for this, and starting to notice with gratitude, things around me that I'm grateful for, it actually does create a chemical shift in my body and it can bring me to a. It can elevate my state. And so it's a such a powerful tool that we don't talk about nearly enough. So if I'm not feeling well, what am I grateful for? What are the things that are good in my life that instantly will give me a neurochemical mood shift?

Gratitude is a natural antidepressant.

Yeah.

And so as we get ready to close up today, Marianne, my invitation for our listeners. Take a little bit of time. Write down what you're grateful for and why do that on a regular basis. And then one final thing. I had a powerful experience recently, and I wanted just a shout out to the group, a men's group that I run. I gave a challenge, and the challenge was this. Identify a hundred things that you appreciate about your spouse and why one of the individuals did it. And I'm going to tell you, a hundred things is not a few, but there's a concept there. When we start to think about the people that are around us, the things that we genuinely appreciate about them, we begin to look for their good, not their bad. We begin to see who they are. If we're going to have healthy relationships, we need to pause and be grateful. If you've hurt somebody, make amends by expressing what you're grateful for. If you've been hurt by somebody, this will be a more difficult thing to do. I'm not going to ask you to do that yet. You might not be ready, but if you ever are ready, Identify five things and you'll feel something. Because when we see people, we see that every human being has good in them, even the people who've hurt us. So you may or may not be ready for that. But if you've offended, find a way to do the things that show gratitude. It's a good start to healing a relationship.

I love that. Dr. Skinner, I want to add just one additional part as we just before we wrap up, telling the people that are in our lives that we're grateful for them. And, you know, one of the traditions, going back to my grandma, one of our Thanksgiving traditions was I came from a really big family, and there were a lot of aunts and uncles. There were a lot of cousins. Seemed like the magic number was seven. Everybody had to have seven kids. And it just kind of went on and on and on. And Thanksgiving was really big, you know, sitting around the tables, and we could not leave until we all went around the table and said, what we're thankful for, every single person. And there was a point for me that was like, oh, my gosh, this is awful. Like, will they ever be done? Will my uncle stop talking? Because there's 25 more people that still have to go. And as a kid or a teenager, I didn't appreciate that as much. But there is a power in seeing and expressing that out loud to each other for our listeners or viewers, if you have the opportunity to be with people that you care about, that you are grateful to have them in your lives, I will challenge you to look, take some time and slow down and look them in the eyes, give them a hug, have some healthy touch, and just slow down and say, I am so grateful that I get to spend this time with you. I am so grateful that you are in my life. And this is why, as you said, that deeper, like, if we can deepen it. Because what I have learned, Dr. Skinner, is when someone shares something that's kind of and meaningful with me, I carry that for years and years and years. And we all need that. We need to know, not just like, oh, I'm glad you're here. I'm so glad you're in my life. But let me tell you why. Why you're important to me and what I love about you. I think we live in a time, especially right now, there's so many people who are struggling with anxiety and depression and mental illness, and we live in a lot of polarity, seeing things black and white. And there's a lot of division in our world, but just sitting down and having some conversations of here is what I appreciate about you. That's how we build bridges. And I think we all need more bridges. And we all need to have someone say, I think you're amazing. And let me tell you why.

Love it. Absolutely love it. All right. So to our listeners, this is going to be released the day before Thanksgiving. We want to express our gratitude to you as we close today. Thank you for being a listener. Thank you for sharing that with your friends. Whatever you're doing, just thank you. Thank you for your goodness. Thank you for trying to find solutions to the pain you're experiencing, and thanks for letting us be a part of that journey. Just profound gratitude. As we get ready for the next day, which will be Black Friday, I want to invite our listeners. If you have not yet signed up for the 2026 Human Intimacy Conference, we have a coupon that we'll put in the show notes and we'll have the link. But what we'll have you do is type in Black Friday and you'll get 50% off coupon. So in the show notes, we'll put that link and you can get 50% off the conference with some phenomenal experts who are going to be sharing how to heal from sexual betrayal, how to have healthy relationships, how to improve and connect in as many ways as possible. So, Marianne, thank you for your time today and to our listeners. Just so grateful for you. May you be blessed at this time and always.

Thank you. It's like you're shining.