Unlearning: Breaking Patterns That Prevent Us from Connection and Intimacy (Episode #38)

Something about you that I can't help.

But smile when you smile and laugh when you laugh.

Welcome to the human intimacy podcast. Dr. Kevin Skinner with you today with my friend and colleague Marianne Michaelis. Marianne, as I always ask, how are you doing today?

That Dr. Skinner? I'm glad you asked because today I was thinking about how to answer this. And what's fascinating is I use a Fitbit watch and when I wake up in the morning I kind of just check how was my sleep, how's my heart rate, how's my readiness score for the day? And I was fascinated that I had like 100% ready for the day score. And I was like, I've never seen that before. And I started thinking, why, why would that be so different? Why would my, my heart rate variability was higher, my breathing like my heart, my resting heart rate was a lot lower. I thought, why, why would that be different? And the reason why I bring this up is it really ties in. I believe it ties into what we're going to be talking about today, which is breaking patterns that prevent us from connection and intimacy. And in one of our previous podcasts, I think I had mentioned that I've lived in my neighborhood, in this home for over almost nine years and none of our neighbors know each other. And we recently just had two new neighbors moving across this, like into two houses across the street. And, and so one neighbor and I decided that we just need to have like a get together with neighbors to, to get to know. And so I went door knocking this weekend. I went and knocked on neighbors doors and I found people who had. I found so many neighbors that have been here for nine years, 12 years, who also have just been like, this is so ridiculous that we don't know each other. And one of the, one of the neighbors, she's from Nepal, she was like, we can't let this keep happening. We organized a community potluck with about 10 families. More families showed up and it was just a really quick like, show up at the park, let's hang out. And it was beautiful. And suddenly people have shared phone numbers. People are connecting. They found out their kids are in the same kindergarten classes. And there's just this connection that's happened and it, I could have knocked on doors nine years ago and I, some doors I did try to knock on, but I individually just went knocking on doors and said, we've lived here for nine years and we feel like it's about time to get to know our neighbors. And everyone was so grateful. And I think there's A positive correlation to that and me waking up with a lower heart rate, just ready, ready to connect with the world. So that's my segue into our whole conversation today.

I, I really like that for a couple reasons. One, we live in a culture today where there's a lot more isolation. We've looked at the research on loneliness. It's a cr. You know, across the board, there's, we're lonelier than we've ever been. And that's a very proactive way. Just go knock day, knock doors, talk with neighbors, we're gonna have a potluck, we're gonna get together. And one of the things that that actually does is it takes, I'm gonna call it fear. And, and patterns that we get into are often fear based patterns. And the fear comes from uncertainties, unknowns, unpredictability. But when I start and become proactive in my own life, and this is really where I'd like to start today. Marianne, I really think that we have to understand our own patterns. I'm going to call it unlearning because so many times we've got into patterns that simply don't work. You said nine years of, you know, you drive in, put your car in the garage, close the garage door. I don't necessarily know these neighbors. You go knock doors, hey, we're going to have a potluck with, and all of a sudden there's a shift. It could have been another nine years, Marianne.

It could have. And boy, I sure didn't want that.

And because you're proactive there, and I think this is true to individuals. We think the same thoughts, we feel the same feelings, we somehow expect that if we think and feel, we don't even analyze it, we're going to somehow change is going to occur. It doesn't happen that way. We. I love what Dr. Joe Dispenza said. If we're going to create change in our lives, we have to think different, feel different, act different. And I would add to that, we have to believe different.

And I think what you're talking about there one aspect of that is being intentional. We have to start noticing what's going on. We can't change something just by hoping for it. But we have to slow down and we have to start being intentional about. If I want to change something, what is it that isn't working for me and what is it that I need to change? And I love that when we start to do that, it becomes a creative process. My neighborhood thing, my neighbor, that that was part of this she's 84 years old. She's. She's a widow. And she was the one that. We talked about it a year ago. And then I was reaching out, texting two of the two new neighbors that had moved in, and my husband said, you better talk to our neighbor, because she. I think she already was talking about doing this, but it is becoming really intentional about what is. What is our why behind this? What's my purpose for the change? What do I want to see? What's the. My desired outcome? And I know we'll probably talk about this later on, but maybe we want to start here right now. But I think there's also. It's also important as we step into this, figuring out how do I. How do I want to change? I love Carol Dweck's work where she looks at our mindset and, you know, I could have knocked all the doors, and there was one door I knocked three times and nobody answered. And so yesterday morning, I was headed out the door and I had a big roll of tape and I had something I just handwritten. I was going to tape to their door because I thought there were some kids there and really wanted them to come. But we have to look when it doesn't work, it's not that I failed. It's how do I do this differently? And it's a very creative process. Are your thoughts on that?

You know, I think there's a couple of core things for me and, and one is change. You use the word intentional. We have to be intentional when we change. We have to be because change does not occur on its own. And if the unlearning process, I almost have to also identify what's the problem? What's the issue at hand? Why. What am I trying to change and why am I trying to change it? That why is really an incredible, incredibly important. So I think we have to understand what's the problem. Even. Even identifying what the problem is is a huge awareness builder. So a few two years ago, almost exactly two years ago, I've shared this story in different occasions, but I went to a chiropractor, nutritionist, and he was, you know, he was a nutritionist. And when I went to him, you know, I was having some major health issues. I couldn't sleep on my right side. I was. My sleep was interrupted. And he said, let's do some blood work. The nutritionist part of him kicks in. He does the blood work and he looks at the. Pulls up the blood work after I'd done it. He says, you know what I'm just going to be honest with you. You can keep eating the way you're eating, but it's probably going to kill you sooner than later. And I, and I wasn't prepared for, for that. I mean, I would been walking 10,000 or 11,000 steps every day. I'd been doing my best to stay in good shape. But he said it's actually your nutrition, it's your diet that if you don't change, it's, it's what's going to get you. And again, that was my wake up call that something had to change in how I ate. And basically now I'm eating a gluten free diet, have less inflammation, I can sleep on my right side and now I'm two years later. I've seen that manifest that I had to change, but that was somebody telling me that maybe it's even more when I recognize individually where I'm going, what I'm doing, what I'm thinking. It's not getting me to the place I want to be in life.

So you're talking about a wake up call. Yeah, sometimes we have wake up calls. You're talking about like an external wake up call. This came from somebody from the outside looking and saying, hey, do you see what's happening here? And sometimes we have those, sometimes we don't have those. I know in the past, just referencing a previous podcast we did, you were talking about some mood when you were training for a marathon and your wife came in and said, hey, are you noticing that you don't have enough energy and you don't have enough energy and patient for the patience for the kids. And so I think it's important to maybe pay attention to the people around us, surrounding us with people who trust us and listening to their feedback or even seeking out trusted individuals for feedback. I wonder how often we go to people we trust and say, are there any areas in my life that maybe you as an observer have noticed that I could change or improve on maybe that are detrimental or not so healthy? And I'm guessing that our, our partners or people around us or trusted people might have some good feedback. So I think we're talking about that. But we're also talking about that internal awareness which I think sometimes it's harder to catch and harder to notice.

I agree wholeheartedly because you know, the difference between the I knew that I had health issues, I was seeking help, I just didn't know what I didn't know. So there are times where I think we have to turn to trusted professionals and say, I don't, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how that, that in my mind it required a humility. But at that point I didn't care. I didn't, I just needed, I was begging for someone to help me. And, and so the other side of that is my personal awareness, right? The personal awareness, I've got a problem, something needs to change here. And that I think is the second part. I, I can go to a trusted professional, they can help me with the change because I'm asking for it. And then there's the other part of like, okay, I need to, I needed to make this change. And sometimes we can do it without the guidance. But more often than not, I have found that when I'm unlearning things, it's a whole lot faster if I get people who already understand how to do something. Let me give you an example. I've coached basketball for, oh, having eight children. I've coached a lot of basketball in my life. In one point it was 15 years in a row. And I can't tell you how many times while coaching. Unbelievable. Watching boys and girls try to do a layup, especially when they're first learning and they can't do it and they can't do it. And so one of the things that I said is, okay, let's get rid of the ball for a second. And I just want you to do this. If you're going to do a right handed layup, you start with your right foot, then you go to your left foot and then your right arm goes up and releases the ball. And I would have them do that over and over and over again without the ball because I knew that if I could get the mental pattern in place, the then when they had the ball, they would have the pattern that would initiate the right, left up, right, left up. I taught my children I want you to do a left handed layup, which is very rare, especially when I recognize younger girls, they weren't doing left handed layups and hardly could do right handed. I said to my daughter, if you can do a left handed layup, you're going to be able to play for a long time in this sport if you want.

So you're talking about creating the neural pathways, creating, they say to become an expert in something you need 10,000 hours. And, and so you're talking about muscle mem memory creating the patterns that our brain can recognize and just knows how to do automatically without thinking about it. I think that's what I'm hearing you talk about.

Yeah. And, and if I expand upon that, that that's everything that we do. We think in patterns. We emote and have emotions in patterns. I mean if I was to ask you every week and I do this when I train people, I say okay, I'm going to go to your trash can. You want to go my trash can? I said yeah. If I went to your trash can every week and, and I before, before it's picked up, how different is your trash that you take out every week? The food that you buy, everything that you do? I would guess in a given year it has very little fluctuation because we eat in patterns. We do most of our life on autopilot as Dr. Joe Dispenza says. And really the unlearning process requires us to unlearn. We have to literally do things different intentionally.

And I love as you, I heard you mentioned Dr. Joe dispense a couple of times. I believe this concept comes from him. But on that, that idea of these automated patterns even taking it, moving it from our trash just into thinking about how you brush your teeth, you usually start on one side. You don't think about it. There's certain patterns. We don't think about how to tie our shoelaces. We don't think about getting in our car. We don't have to learn how to drive car. Every single time we get into our car, our brain, I, I think Dr. Dispense it says 95% are these automated patterns that our brain has just learned how to do it and we don't even think about it. And I think that's where we get stuck in these patterns that are even subconscious. We just do. I don't. Until I started thinking about how I brush my teeth, until I heard this concept, I just brush my teeth. I always start on the one side and this is how I do it. No thought about it whatsoever.

Exactly. And that's what I'm hopefully we can emphasize today. I think there's an insight that comes into our life where we recognize something needs to change. Then we have to apply why we're changing it, what and why. And then we break it down even further and it's like, what do I have to unlearn? What are the things that I need to unlearn? So I do this in couples intensives all the time when I identify the patterns. We do a concept called the Cartman triangle or the drama triangle where I introduce to couples their fight patterns, how they fight and we break it down. Who does what and then we create a shift in how they deal with the conflict. And it's absolutely stunning when people get the insight into how they fight. It's freeing to them. Change only occurs when we have enough insight and awareness of what the pattern is. And then we shift the pattern. That's both for couples and it's for individuals.

And so this is where we become conscious and aware of what's going on. This ties in also to Sue Johnson's work, where she says, when we start to recognize these patterns of our conflict, then we can stop and say, hold on a second, here it is. We. She calls it the dance. And she says, we have to stop the music. We have to change the music. We have to stop the patterns. Because we know when you say this, I'm going to say this, and you're. We know the dance steps. We know the patterns that we get into. And so I think you're talking about making something that's implicit, something we're not thinking about, that we're not even really aware of, and making it something explicit where we see it, where we're very aware of it. And so it moves into a cognitive state where we can then start to pull it apart and figure it out. Along these same lines, one of the tools that I think is so important is to understand the rituals. And oftentimes I'll talk to my clients and I'll say, well, tell me about your ritual. Say, I don't have a ritual. I don't know what you're talking about. There's no ritual there. I'll say, oh, okay, well, that's okay that you don't think there is. But let's start talking about when you do the thing that we're talking about that you want to change in your life. Let's talk about what time of day it is. Let's talk about what's going on for you. Let's talk about where you do it, what you look for. And suddenly we've mapped out a very specific ritual that was very implicit. They had no idea what's going on. But when they begin to see it on paper, they say, oh, now there's something. And I. I know I learned this from you. We. We have to understand our pattern so we can start to go backwards through it to figure out we can change.

And when we do change, it usually is not done on autopilot. In other words, you have to take your hand, push on the brake, take it life off autopilot or cruise control, and wake up to the fact that what we're doing where we're at. The way I'm thinking, the way I'm acting, it's not getting me the results I want. And this is really maybe the transition I'd like to make here to we want deeper levels of intimacy in our lives. I can't think of anybody I've met and said, I just want to be alone. I don't care about people. I don't. I don't. I just hate people. Very rarely do I ever hear that people long for human connection. It's built into our DNA, as Sue Johnson says. It's. It's in us. It's really that desire for connection. And. And yet I think we're living so far below our relationship potential because we aren't pausing to reflect on what we're doing. That is not working. Human intimacy can't be done on autopilot.

And I think bringing that. My personal experience with my neighbors into this. I don't know how many sessions ago it was that we. That I brought up. I haven't talked. You know, I have neighbors that we've never really talked to. We've attempted and we haven't. And perhaps I'd like to think that my brain, since that time has been working on it in the background, so saying, I want connection with my neighbors. But last week, for whatever reason, was like, oh, okay, here's. Here's something. I'm going to try and plan something. Sometimes it takes us a little while for our brain to figure out ways to solve the problem. Maybe consciously, maybe not even consciously. When we're talking about patterns of change, there's a lot of precognition. There's a lot of our brain trying to figure out one. We're becoming aware of a need for change. And then our brain starts to figure out, how could I do this? And then we move into that actual planning stage. And so there's like five stages going through that whole pre awareness, pre contemplation, planning to action that comes before the change actually even occurs.

I like that a lot. Because. Because change, again, it's not done instantaneously. In most cases, it is a process. And that process you're describing is, okay, so now I have the awareness. Now I'm really uncomfortable because I know what I think is the problem or I think needs to be changed. I don't necessarily know the path to get there. And I think that's where most of us just go back to what's comfortable, because comfortable is comfortable is comfortable. Change, on the other hand, requires us to get out of the comfort zone, to take a note, to knock on a door. And in my own life, as an example of when I had to change my diet, it means that I can't go to restaurants that I used to go to. It means that last night when my daughter hands us some really beautiful cookies, I hand it over to my daughter and my wife and say, I hope you guys can enjoy this. But two years later, I still have that emotion of, oh, my goodness, that cookie looks good. But I can't. I know I can't.

So you found a greater good, you found a higher reason, and that's your why, that's your motivation. And that is this will kill me.

Suffering and the physical pain associated with eating that is not worth it. And, and, and that, and that's just the. My reality. I would love to have had one of those chocolate cook chocolate chip cookies, no question about it.

And I, I think we're also talking about this concept here is choosing our pain. You can have pain in the long run of the nutritional issues that impact your health, which impact your sleeping, which impact how you function, how you feel, how you interact, or you can have the pain of not having the immediate, the gratification right then of enjoying the cookie. And we do have, we have to choose our pain. One thing that I have learned is that we pay for the pain. The things that are hard, the things that are the most painful for us, we will do. Because the pain's so great, we'll say it doesn't matter. I remember one of my friends years ago was telling me that in an effort to lose weight, she said, I don't care. I'll eat dirt if I have to, but I just am in so much pain over this. I, I'll do whatever I need to do because I, I need to lose this weight. And so we, when we hit points where we choose the pain of change rather than the pain of staying where we're at.

Yeah, and let me, let me go a little bit deeper into situation here, because I find that the process of change is usually based upon our belief of whether we can change or not. If I don't believe I can change, I'm not going to change. If I don't know that that's even an option for me, I'm likely going to do the same thing, similar things over and over again. So when we truly understand change, we begin to analyze do I even believe it's possible for me to see this? And I really like the way Dr. Joe Dispenza says you have to see it. You have to be able to see that that change is possible for you. And that's one of the things I try to share with couples. When you're in patterns that feel hopeless or helpless and you don't know what to do to change or create the change in your marriage, I, I promise you, if you'll seek out more awareness, identify the patterns and then alter the patterns, hope will begin to increase because you'll be doing or taking the actions where change is possible. But if you don't believe it's possible, it's not. It's that simple.

And as we're talking about these changes, I think it's important to look at. There's a concept called habit stacking, which is we make one small change. And so maybe I'm doing five sit ups a day and then maybe I add a two minute wall sit to that and we're just. Dan Siegel shared it, shared a concept called our window of, to tolerance. And our window, window of tolerance is how much we can tolerate and when we are intentional. It's like a rubber band or a, a balloon. When you go to blow up a balloon, it's, it's really stiff and it's hard and if I were just to start blowing it, you know, my cheeks bulge out and it's really tough. But the more that I start to stretch it, the easier it becomes and I'm able to blow it up. And this idea of our window of tolerance, of how much we can handle, we can't usually blow that, that stiff balloon up all at once. But that stretching allows us to do more and more and more. And so as we're habit stacking, we're adding very small, very manageable bite size habits which will eventually get us the place, get us to where we want to go. But it does take that intentionality of what's one small thing I can change right now? Going back to my neighbors, the thought of going and knocking on doors for no rant, like just no purposeful meaning wasn't even a concept for me. But when I had a purpose or a reason, oh, we're going to have a potluck. Then I could say, oh, I can knock on this door. Oh, I can move forward. And so having our why and then stretching a little bit. I'd asked a couple of neighbors and said, oh well, maybe we could ask a couple more. And maybe we could ask a couple of more. I watched it stretching and stretching and growing.

That's awesome. Let me, let me talk about a barrier here that I think is often overlooked. I know that we get the idea to go knock on a door or for me to change my diet or in a marriage that we want to have the connection. But that how to that you just described of like, what's the purpose? What, what are we trying to do here? I think is really an important concept because I think we see what we want, but the how to get there is really critical. And let me add another component here, just another example of this. For years I was thinking about retirement planning. It was something that, you know, it was down the road. It was down the road for me. And recently I've been studying a lot about this process of retirement. And, and I. It's something I had to spend a lot of time learning about and studying of how do I financially put my life in a place when I want to retire? It's on my terms, not, not because I have to. I have to keep working and keep working and keep working. And, and so I've had to intentionally learn about financial planning, how to prepare for the future, how to invest money. And, and it, it's, again, it's nice to see, oh, I would like to be able to retire at age 65. It's a whole different thing of saying, I am going to retire at 65 on my terms, not on the terms of, okay, did I, did I, did I get there? Well, I'm not guessing anymore. I have a strategy, I have a plan, and I love my plan because it's actually a safe way to get there. And so I started reading books, I started learning, I started creating a plan. So when I'm 65, I'm retiring on my terms, not guessing. And, and people say, well, how can you compare retirement to depression? Well, what I do know is that there are phenomenal resources that help us combat depression.

So what I'm hearing you say right there, though, is you became aware of the problem. You couldn't fix anything until you were of the problem. You couldn't start worrying about retirement until you are aware of, I need to do something about this, and I don't know what to do. So even depression, I have to be aware that I'm struggling with depression to be able to say, I need to figure out how to get out of this, or I need some help.

And then it's turning to information that, that will help me. And that's what, that's what I appreciate about our listeners. I know our listeners are here saying, okay, I want a better life. I want better relationships. I want More connection and. And my invitation to you, our listener, truly identify that things are not working and create a plan, an action plan. And it may take you months and years to put into application what you're trying to accomplish. But here's my promise. If you'll pay the price, you will get the outcome. The brain is changeable. There are no patterns we can't change. And that's true for most every issue that we deal with. Physically, mentally, emotionally, financially. Intentionality with a plan creates positive outcomes.

So, Dr. Skinner, as I'm hearing you talk about this, I'm also thinking about our relationships. I can't control what somebody else in my relationship does. And so we can become aware that this is a problem. And I think it's important to recognize the power that we do have as individuals. We can say, I'm aware of this problem and I want you to fix it. But that's usually not going to be the standard for success. Recognizing. Sometimes in. In these patterns, we have to do some surrendering, saying, I can't fix that other person, therefore, I need to either create some boundaries or I need to create some tools in my own life to help me. And sometimes that is, I love the surrender process because when I say, I can't fix this, I don't have the tools. I don't know how to. It's. It's outside of my scope where I just can't change this thing. This giving it up, I think opens up our mind to new opportunities. When I realize, control it.

Really important point you're making here, because what can I control? What can't I control? I get to control how I respond. Interestingly, when I was going through my Master's and my PhD program, a concept of systems theory, which we learned as marriage and family therapists, is if you put a rock and you drop it into a pond, it has a ripple effect. Every action that we have has an outcome. It has a consequence, both positive and negative. I don't necessarily know how certain actions are going to influence people, but I do know that if I am kind, if I am caring, if I practice listening and developing empathy and compassion, if I recognize that I'm hurting through my anger or through my. My behaviors, if I recognize that I have an opportunity to stand up and be a different and better human being. I mean, and I want to put that in context. There are things that I have to unlearn because I'm not being the most present person. This is true for all of us in today's society. We have a society that we're stuck to our devices and, and I can't tell you how many times I've been watching people try to have conversations and their phones are out and they're talking. Put if we just as an example, put things down and I looked at you in the eyes and I had a meaningful conversation with you, you're going to feel different than if I'm just putzing with you my phone and. Oh, yeah, huh. Yeah. So even intentionality in our conversations, if you want deeper conversations, then create the environment where you are creating a place where people want to talk with you and they know you're interested in them.

But yeah, I have, I have three thoughts on that. I hopefully I can hold on to them as we go. One of my colleagues and friends, Chris Cristiano, I remember she mentioned something in a consult group where we were talking about that ripple effect that you talked about dropping that rock in. And I'd always heard about, yep, the ripples, they keep on going. And I remember her saying, and at some point they reached the shore and they can cause a lot of damage, they can cause a lot of erosion or they can land with a very soft, gentle. But, but not just that there's a ripple going out, but it lands and hits something somewhere. And so really looking at how is this going to hit? So I love that. And also that con, there's a new word, maybe you're familiar with it. I heard it, I don't know, six months ago. It's called flubbing. Are you familiar with that?

I have not heard the word flubbing. I'm interested in hearing what it means.

According to whatever it was that I was looking at that day. Flubbing is when you're on your phone and you're sitting in the room and you're basically snubbing or ignoring everyone around you. And I think we've all had experiences where we walk in or we're, you know, it can be a family reunion or a family gathering or just people together and we're there, but nobody's present because they're on their phone. And so there's a snubbing or this. I'm not really present, but I'm here. And the, the third concept that I, I just want to bring in. Yesterday I was in a, in an interaction with somebody and they had a, a ten month old baby. They were sitting next to me. And this baby doesn't really like to, he's very attached to his mama and so he doesn't like to go to people. But there's Always that entreaty of like, hey, do you want to come over here? Hey, I, I want to hold the baby and play with the baby. And I had my phone in my hand for a minute and the baby reached towards me and she said, the mom said, oh, well, if he's, yeah, if there's a phone, he's reaching for it, he wants to play with that. And I just thought 10 month old baby is reaching for the phone is something to play with. And I, I think the past 10, 15 years we have started giving our children access to, to, to games and toys and things on our phones. And we're talking about this isolation, we're talking about this disconnection, we're talking about these patterns and I think we don't realize that some of them are starting so, so young. That this 10 month old baby is like, oh, let me grab, what do you see is people grabbing for phones. And that's a, that's something to, to absorb in. And I know the baby wasn't trying to absorb in the phone, but I don't think we, we realize how deep some of these patterns go.

I like that awareness. And again, there's an intentionality. I have to understand what's working and what's not working. So to our listeners, if I could just give you a couple of brief things that might help you break patterns. One is we have to identify something as a problem and that's either somebody else listening to outside voices or internally recognizing. I want to change this. So here's a question I would invite you to think about. If there's one thing in my life I need to change, it would be finish the sentence once you've identified the one thing. And this is a really important thing. One thing. I didn't say 10 things. Identify. You can make a list if you choose, but choose one thing. And that's where I think many people make have problems in their change process is they identify again New year's resolutions. It's five things. It's 10 things. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And you overstructure the change process. It usually leads to failure, which the research is really clear. And many people set New Year's resolutions do not succeed.

Let me just add in here. Just a couple weeks ago I was talking with a client and they said, I don't want to focus on like my sobriety right now. I want to be the person who says I've got 10 years of sobriety. And sometimes we say that one thing. That we want to change might be this big, huge ten year thing. And we have to realize it has to come back to the small thing I can do today because that's all I can control.

Exactly. So the one thing that I want to change and then it's putting into action. Okay, what's, what is it that I'm trying to change? And then why is this important? I always say you have to identify your why, because if you don't have a big enough why, you probably won't try. Right. So find the one thing, put your heart into it. And then, and then in application, it begins to have what Charles Duhigg said in the Power of Habit, it begins to have a. He calls it a ripple effect. But. But it's more than that because he described it as a keystone habit. And what the researchers identified, when you have a keystone habit, it then bleeds out into other change areas of your life. And so for me, the change process is identifying it, then enacting it. And you begin to see the ripple effect of doing one thing that turns into 1, 2, 5, 10 things because your life is changing. They did a wonderful research with people's brains on the change process. One of my favorite stories is the story of Lisa Allen, who was in just a very difficult place and she began to create change in her life. Exercise. She gave up smoking. She put her finances in order after going through a really traumatic relationship breakup. The change that she experienced, they actually watched it in her brain. And. And so one of the most incredible things that we know is change is not only possible, but it's always happening. The question is, are we creating the change that we want in our lives or are we just going through the old patterns, doing the same things? Which in my mind, that's actually is depressing.

Yeah. If I can add a couple of comments to this. If I struggle with alcohol and going to a bar every night, I can't say, well, the one thing I'm going to change is not drinking. And so I'm going to go to the bar every night and order milk. I have to make sure that I'm creating a plan for my change. And I need accountability. I need people and a positive environment to support me. I've got to find some people that can be supportive of that change. Because it's so hard to change. If it's just sheer willpower, we don't do very well with that. So having our plan and then being able to come back and look at it and tweak it and say what didn't work. What do I need to change? What do I. So that reevaluation, I think is really important too. Recognizing we don't usually get it right immediately. And so also bringing in the self compassion of okay, so that that didn't work. What can I do differently? And once again, we're talking about changing patterns for connection. And so bringing other people in and helping us on that pathway, I think is also so important because it does come back down to connection and intimacy and sharing, being vulnerable and letting people join us on our journeys.

You know, I had an experience recently. Periodically I get letters from people who've, you know, seen me in therapy or they've come for intensives. But recently I received it. Just an incredibly. Just so grateful for this letter. But this person sent a message of they were writing it. And you bring into the equation here people. They wrote a letter to their entire community that had helped them in their recovery and, and sent a letter to me as a part of that, as a part of their journey. And what I loved the most is they created this, this place of here is what we've experienced and they shared it with their entire community. Thank you for this. Thank you for that. Thank you for this. And, and I was just a small part of that equation. But one of the things they said, you taught us how to change the patterns that were not working. And, and I love those letters because. Because when you see people applying these principles, change is possible. You just have to have the know how. And when you start to see the patterns and you do things differently, you do get different outcomes and change. Not only is change possible, it's expected, but you can't do it on autopilot if you and your partner are stuck, if you're stuck with a habit that's you're stuck in, you don't have to live there, you don't have to joy, happiness. Life is way too short to suffer in the trenches of mediocrity. So, Marianne, my invitation, everybody is find the things you want to change and get engaged in life so you can find joy and happiness. Marianne, I think that's about it for me today. What's your final thoughts?

My final thoughts are just to believe in yourself. When you think about a baby that's born. Babies can't talk, they can't walk, they can't take care of themselves. Just like you said, change is just part of life. And so recognizing it's okay that I'm here right now, but I can change. So believe in yourself that you can change, reach out for support and connection and be compassionate and kind to yourself. It won't happen overnight. It doesn't usually happen overnight. It is a process. And you had mentioned earlier, you know, it could have been nine more years for me with my neighbors. And I'm hoping that the next nine years with my neighbors are amazing. I Hope I have 10 more years with these neighbors.

And you have the starting point. Right. That that's what's so exciting. It's like everybody's like, we can't let this happen. Meaning we got to get to know each other. I love that change is possible and it's fun, right?

Yeah. I'm thrilled. I'm so excited. We're going to one of the neighbors daughter's ballet performances at the high school when the Nutcracker in December.

And, and again, these are the things that we can easily overlook, but it creates human connection. I love the story, love the example. All right, to our listeners. Thank you. Thank you so much. We just passed 14,000 downloads, which is not bad for our first year. Thank you for taking the time. I just love the fact that you're engaging. We hear feedback. Thank you for the feedback. If you have questions that you want us to address on the podcast. Questions. Human intimacy.com and I want to do one more final thing. If you're stuck and you don't know how to create change. Coming up soon, I'm going to be offering change 2.0. It is a course 12 weeks that I've created to help people create change in their lives. I do it in two different segments. One is for individuals, one is for couples and families. And I invite the whole family to engage in this change process. If there's one thing you want to change in your life, in your interactions together. Coming up soon, if you are on our email list@human intimacy.com, you can sign up or send an email to questionshumanintimacy.com and we will get you signed up so you can engage in the change process with us. I actually do it with you. In other words, what I do is I say, okay, in 2025, these are the things I'm going to be working on. This is the change I'm working on. And I'm accountable to everybody just like you are. So I invite you to join me, us as we talk about the change process and learn together how to make our lives better. So you'll be getting emails related to that if you're part of the Human Intimacy email list. If not, we invite you to join us.

Thank you. It's a great conversation today.

Thank you for the great conversation. I love your feedback, participation, and to our listeners, you guys have a fantastic, outstanding, marvelous, extraordinarily great week, if you choose. Bye bye, everybody.

Bye bye.

Something surround you. It's like you're shining, you're staring.