Daniel Rintz & Josephine Flohr: 2 wheels, 1 world, 0 money

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Living a Life in Full is a conversation you always wanted to have with

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episode of Living a Life in full. I'm Dr. Chris Stout, your host and I am just so excited. I was talking with Daniel, who's the guest today with his partner Josie about how excited I was about today's show. Just in in the sense of the amazing adventures that that these two have had. If you're not familiar, Daniel is a filmmaker, he's a media designer. He and Josie are both world travelers. Daniel's been involved in a variety of different kinds of things in media. He's been a producer, he's been a director, He's a filmmaker. We'll hear a lot more about those projects today. Josie, they both hail from Germany. Are you both from Berlin, is that right?

Actually, Josephine is from Berlin. I'm from Dresden.

Okay.

Two hours south.

Gotcha.

Okay, so both. Both somewhat nearby in Germany. Are you guys now currently living in Berlin? Is that where you're based right now?

We're based in Dresden at the moment.

Oh, you're in Dresden. Okay, awesome. Great, Great. So I'm very excited to have you both be on the show and looking forward to have a great conversation. So to start off, Daniel, I know you have quite the varied background in film production and media and whatnot. And one of the things that a lot of our audience members have interest in and are oftentimes very participatory in is humanitarian work. And I know that you did some work, I think it was it in Laos with Huma tv. Is that right?

That's right. Yeah. I did a couple of projects, but one of them was in Laos.

Okay, and is that what got you into filmmaking or tell us about that?

No, I've been a filmmaker before and I basically stumbled upon those kind of projects, these NGO projects, when I was looking for work. So the theme of my first trip was two one, zero, two wheels, one world, zero money. And I love that.

I hope you have T shirts or some kind of merch with that on it. You really should. That's so good.

Basically, the idea came when a buddy and I formed or planned the around the world trip on motorcycles because we came out of university and did have no backup, no funding, no savings. And we wanted to. We were so desperate, desperate to. To go and travel. We decided to find out whether you can actually work along the way and find. Find jobs, random jobs to pay for the trip. So we did and we. It did work. And one of the places that I went to in Southeast Asia was the Red Cross, for example, and other NGOs in the area. And I hoped they would be in a need of skills that I had and they couldn't maybe not find on location. And it was the case. So I helped a couple of. Helped them make a couple of films for their investors to see how effective the Red Cross was.

And that was just totally a spontaneous kind of thing. That wasn't, you know, with any planning of going over there or was. Was that part of the trip or that was during the trip.

That was part of the trip. So so long a trip. I every now and so often or whenever I ran out of money, I. I kind of knocked on doors and asked if people knew anything and said, I can do this, I can do that. And that's how it came about.

Well, I remember. I also, by the way, I'm a big fan of your movie, the Somewhere Else Tomorrow, and I would highly recommend any of the audience members and listeners to check it out. I think I've seen it twice, and it's currently. Yeah, it's currently available on Netflix, so. And I'm a big fan. You know, I'm sure you've probably seen or know about, like, Long Way down and Long Way around and those kinds of movies. So I just. I felt like yours was, you know, just such a. I don't know. With those two movies, you know, they're done by movie stars with lots of financing and backing and in production crews and stuff, versus, you know, was it just sort of like you and Lars at the start with pretty much with cameras and gear and whatever else?

Exactly. Just two people at the beginning. And then eventually, after about six months, when Lars decided he'd have enough, it was just me, just one guy.

And was that scary? Was that.

How was it to go from two to one?

It wasn't as bad as it. As it sounds because I was already going. I mean, if I had left from home, thinking about all the places that I would go on my own, it would have been a lot more difficult. But at the point where Lars decided to cut his trip short, we were in Turkey, and we've been going for six months. We traveled in northern regions of Africa, and we found a couple of jobs here and there and had made enough experience so that I was confident I could keep doing it, at least for. For a while. And then I ended up traveling another two years or so and.

And would it be. You would be in one area and then just sort of get a. Like how? Like, unlike the other movies that I've seen, like. Like I said, Long Way Around, Long Way down there. You know, there's logistics and there's timing. We have to be here by this time, we have to be here by that time. And it doesn't sound like that was the case for you. You would kind of go into a direction and then you would learn about a place and want to visit, or you would just kind of, you know, head east and see where it took you or how. How did. How much was it by just adventuresomeness versus planning?

There was a little bit planning, but generally it was a very tentative route. The idea was to travel east and then come back home from the west.

Oh, wow.

That's how rough it was. And the route was very much determined by where and how I could get the jobs. I worked a lot over the Internet as well for clients based in the US In Europe and Australia. But some of the things that I did was on location, and that was pure opportunity. When someone said, go this way. I have a cousin, friend, whatever, neighbor, and you can. You can do something and wash the dishes in his restaurant or whatever it was, then we'll take it up and. And go that way. We're zigzagging.

I remember in your first movie that you were talking about, like, one night you, like, had to sleep in a park in London. And it was. In some jobs, it was kind of difficult to get a gig because you needed, like, a physical address or something like that. But I mean, if you're doing someone's dishes or if you're doing work over the Internet, I mean, that's. That's a different story. But were there ever issues like where, oh, shoot, I don't have a, you know, a visa to work or something like that? Did that knock you out or did it. You just found other kinds of things that didn't require that?

Well, that little story you told about me sleeping in the park, in a public park because I didn't have an address to get a job and didn't get a job because I didn't have an address, that was actually before I left for that big trip around the world on motorcycle.

Oh, really?

So that's where I got my feet wet. I was in my early 20s, and I worked through it. I found a way, and that's probably what helped prepare myself for that big trip. And that is an experience that my buddy Lars back then didn't have. And that's why he had a harder time traveling that way and turned around. But as far as working visas goes, in a lot of places, especially the developing countries, work visas are not as much of an issue as you would imagine. It is less bureaucratic. And if people really need help that they can't get because the education isn't there or the workforce or the people that they need, they aren't there, then there'll be ways for you, as a foreigner, to come in and help and contribute.

Gotcha. I see. How was it? One of my other guests was a fellow named Glenn Hegstad, and he's also traveled around the world, and he's done it solo. And one of the questions I have for him, I Also wanted to ask you, is like, were there problems like getting your bike across the border? Like, he had issue. I think he got around issues because he kept his license with a United States California license plate on it or something. But I know sometimes there's issues like, like are you really, are you really riding your bike through? Are you trying to get it in to sell it and problems like that. Did you have any problems with permissions of not just you getting across the border, but getting your bike across with you?

There are a lot of challenges that come with traveling on your own bike or having your own vehicle. But before I get into this, I just want to mention that Glenn is a good friend of ours. We had a fantastic time staying with him in Mexico. And when you approached me about this podcast, Googled your name and I found that you. You met him in person. Right. I saw a picture of the two of you.

Yes. At a.

In Chicago, of all places.

Right. So the, the world of travelers is very small. It's, you know, the seven degrees of separation kind of doesn't apply to us.

Maybe very much so.

Very much one to one. So that's. That's very cool. That is very cool.

Yeah, he's a cool guy. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, having your own bike. And like Glenn, we had some issues here and there and especially shipping them across continents where you can't write them, obviously across oceans. And as a traveler, you just, you have your network and you are aware of other travelers that have traveled another route that you, you're planning to go, and then you ask them for advice and they will tell you what works, what doesn't. And I remember one time I was stuck in India, I couldn't go any further because there were only two ways to go further east. One through Myanmar and the other through Tibet. And both was very difficult.

Yeah.

Or expensive. And with the, with the kind of way I was traveling with this small budget and working along the way, I couldn't afford it really, to travel through China on my own because it is required that you have a 24 hour guide. You have to get a license for your license plate and a driver's license from China, and you have to pay the guide as well to travel with you at all times. And you have to make up travel itinerary because they want to know where you are at all times.

Wow.

And you have to check, check in with certain police checkpoints and make sure you don't get off, off track. So. But, you know, as, as traveling teaches you or taught me, taught us is that they always. There's always something that. That comes up. You just have to keep working at it. And so it was in that case as well. I was approached by a group of people who were planning to go through Tibet and eventually China, right into Laos. And they said, if you want to join us, it would make it cheaper for all of us because it doesn't depend on how many are in the group. It's just that a group is going. It's a certain amount, a cost. And so you could split the cost. Yeah, gotcha.

So, gosh. I mean, just. I know again from your first movie and I presume, and I want to hear more about, you know, what's. What's happened since then in just a second. But I was, when talking with Glenn, one of the things he said was that he had modified his bike to have like a higher capacity for fuel. And I remember in your Somewhere else Tomorrow there was. It looked like you invented like some aluminum front fork panniers or something. Was that.

Yeah.

For fuel or storage or. Tell me about that.

Yeah, we. That was actually in the beginning of the trip, maybe two or three months into the trip, my friend and I, we realized it would be better to have panniers in the front to as well as the back to have a better balance of the bike and also more storage that we could lock when we park somewhere in the cities. You know, there's soft luggage, which is great, but it's harder to lock up. And it's, you know, thieves are more likely to try to get to it.

Right.

It wasn't for fuel because the fuel tank that I had on that already modified BMW was already 45 liters, so that was quite enough. But for anyone who is thinking about traveling the world on a motorcycle, I don't think a big tank is very essential for doing it because as far as I'm aware, and when I talk to other travelers as well, they confirm it, there's only a handful of places in the world where you really need that range.

Really?

Yeah. There's one in Australia in the Simpson Desert. I think there's one in Bolivia, which we did despite of having a regular tank. We just managed with jerry cans. And I don't know, maybe there's another one somewhere, but it's not. There's not a lot of places in the world where you have to be able to ride more than 4, 500 km in one go.

Gotcha.

Did you ever. Did you have issues with just getting poor quality fuel or how was that

anywhere in the World. I mean, the fuel varies and you can hear different noises your engine makes. Because you're so accustomed to your own bike, you want it every day, and then you just know it's not good, or it's good, but it didn't cause any problems. It just sounds different. I remember in Ecuador, the fuel is very bad, or so we've been told anyways. And when I was riding with Josephine, especially at high altitude, the power goes down to 50, 40%. Especially with her old bike. Yeah. Because it was a. She had a carburetors which worked differently in the altitude. And with the fuel injection on my slightly newer bike, it was no problem.

I see. That's good. So I have to kind of ask you to put on your director's hat for a second. So you use the perspective of your bike in the first movie as the narrator. Right.

Well, it's interesting that you pick up on this because I did it very subtly.

Yeah.

And I only revealed that fact at the end. And even then it was still open to your interpretation.

Well, did I hallucinate this or did you. Was it Marianne? Was that her name?

That. It was her name. That's the name of the bike. And I gave her a voice, even though it could have been just a regular narrator.

Yeah. I mean, I thought it was so neat how you did that because you kind of started off with, you know, having a discussion with a friend of yours, you know, and then it's.

That's right.

It's kind of quasi flashbacky and stuff. I just. I really. Again, that's why I enjoyed it so much. It's just really a great piece of work. So how did you come up with the bike as sort of being from the bike's perspective as to what was going on. It was an excellent tool to do that, especially, you know, when you were having some down times and stuff. It was a great director's tool to do that. But what inspired you for that? Where'd that come from?

Well, I had a very painful revelation right after I came back from the trip. I've been working as a filmmaker for a couple of years then, but I never felt comfortable in the limelight or in front of the camera or on stage. I mean, I do it, and I've become accustomed to it now that I've been promoting the films and everything. But it's not something that I went out to do. And when I came back, I realized is there's only so much I can do to tell the story. And I was the only subject and object to that strung everything together. You know, the body I left with for the trip, he hasn't been there all the way. And Josephine, I met on the way. She. She wasn't there in the beginning, and there was a big gap in between where it was only me, so. And I find it silly to talk about me all the time, and so I just. I needed to bring in another component.

I think that was great.

That was really brilliant.

Yeah. So that was my solution to it. And I used it very sparsely, but, yeah, I think it worked. Yeah. It's not too silly.

No, I thought it was really clever. So at the end, I mean, there's a little bit of a giving away the spoiler here, because, you know, Josie's here on this podcast as well, too,

which I'm just tickled to have both of you. So Lars, you got. You and Lars were burned out. You went on your trip. Lars was kind of homesick, lovesick, you know, to go back home. Then you had a period of time between. Gosh, you also wasn't. Was there another fellow? Ingo.

That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. So how long were you by yourself? Just totally. Without Josie, without Lars, without Ingo, Ingo.

About a year and a half, which is me.

You know, Gosh, I couldn't really tell

from the film of, you know, how long, you know, like, how much time passes, you know, because a lot of times, you know, you'd spend a lot of, like, I remember the whole Afghanistan thing. I mean, there. You're very specific.

Oh, this should take about three days, and then it takes a month kind of a thing, but exactly.

Gosh. So I really didn't realize that that much time had passed. So you were spending on that. If you think about it, like, as a. As a whole trip. I mean, a fair part of that was just all solo.

Yeah. And I think it was a very important part of the trip because when you travel on your own, a lot of things change. People around you, the strangers, the foreign lands, everything. It's more intense. Right. And people come up to you more easily. They try to help you because you're just such. Such a vulnerable little someone in the whole wide world. Right.

Yeah.

So the perception of that part of the journey is a very intense one, and it shaped me as a person in a very strong way, I bet,

in the sense of feeling like you could handle just about anything or talk about that. What was different after that time?

Well, I think when I talk to people and they ask me about my trip, what I hear is that they think it is very dangerous to do. And when I think back to the moment when I decided to do. To do it and travel around the world, I was also very concerned about safety and possible challenges that I couldn't overcome. But the more you do travel and the more you expose yourself and you go out and you. You try yourself, the more you learn that or the more you lose all your fears, because the universe kind of tells you in its own way that when you keep working at something, it'll provide you with the answers, with the way that gets you there, it gets you to your destination. You know, as I said before, with the jobs, I was zigzagging across continents, and if I had tried to plan all the jobs and all the routes, it would have driven me crazy.

Right. And it wouldn't have worked, you know?

Yeah, it wouldn't have worked. No.

Yeah. Yeah.

So this is the. This is. This is a. Or the most valuable lesson that I learned traveling by myself is to. To let go and. And don't control everything, you know?

Yeah.

So. And that made it easier.

Now, I know that you probably, you know, there's, like, bits and pieces here and there, flats and things that break and whatever, but, like, your. Was. Was the Afghanistan breakdown the. The worst one, the most catastrophic one you had?

Well, it was. It was a very important breakdown that happened at a very important time because it taught me so much. But as. As far as trying to fix it goes, we had other ones that were equally devastating or expensive, even. But just because of the time and place that I was in at that moment on my journey, it had a big impact because I was planning to just roll through Pakistan quickly in a few days to be in India, which is supposedly safer and a democratic country.

And.

But, you know, the universe didn't let me do it. They said no. You know, I mean, I owned my bike for 15 years at that point, and it's never broken down, not to a point where I couldn't continue.

Right, right.

And then it does it once and it does it there, and I was forced. I was forced to deal with the situation and get to know the country, get to know the people in that country and what their. What their challenges are, their problems, where their reputation comes from and whether it's right. And. And I found for myself that I had to dispel all that prejudice that I had. It was just. Nothing was true about that. The country was very different, very wonderful.

Well, correct me if I misinterpreted, but it really seemed like that was sort of like an Epiphany for you, I mean, kind of a turning point, really. So she, Marianne, she noted that it was like a difficult time emotionally for you too. I mean, was that kind of the buildup because of stress and perhaps the loneliness that can come with solitude as well as the good stuff that can come from solitude? Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, I think it was a build up as well out of several factors. Lars having turned around and I had no one to talk to that would understand me from the, from the same background. You know, making money in that part of the world wasn't easy as well, so I was low on funds as well. And the stress, the building up stress of can I do it? Can I maybe not? Can I make. Make it through? Or how, how dangerous was it really in that area?

Right.

I mean, there was a desert French guy that got abducted just a few weeks before I entered Pakistan. And there was a lot of stuff going on in the media and yeah, it was a bit, it was, was a bit scary and everything came together and then, then the bike breaks down. So

what a trying time, but what a, you know, what a change, like you said. I mean, the, the, the, the changes that, that made in you in terms of your perspective and, and, you know, just how you deal with things from there. So, so you made it through, got the bike fixed. I'll never forget that harrowing scene with your bike on the back of that

truck and then it starts to skid off the side and it's like, oh, my gosh.

So that wasn't fun.

Yeah, you made it through. And it's so good that all that's

captured on film because, man, if you're

just like writing a book and saying

a story about it or whatever, I

mean, you know, there's, there's no words

to describe the visuals of, you know, the things that, that your film shows. So, so was it helped me with my, my timing of this was, was so made it through. And then you also, you had, I think, kind of like another wonderful epiphany, wonderful experience. Was it in Kathmandu with the orphans? Was that where that was at?

Yeah, exactly. I was stuck in Kathmandu for a while. That tied into the dead end for me, not being able to travel further east. And one day I came across this Irish fella and he was volunteering at an orphanage and it was Christmas time and I, you know, piggybacked along and met all the kids and the, the organizers of the orphanage. And it was a magical, magical time. We felt an instant connection. And as you said it was an epiphany. I strongly felt I needed to do something, to contribute, to be part of it, to help them. Even though, I mean, I was at a point where I was broke and looking for a job. But, you know, I had the privilege. I had a certain passport that would enable me to go in a. Back to a rich country at any given point. Right. And. And so many people don't even know what it's like. So I decided to. To help.

Wow, that was so. I mean, it's so touching and the. The kids are just so sweet and so beautiful there. And I just think that's. That's terrific. So. So then our story picks up and you've got your. Your Ingo phase.

I guess it's good, you know, good to have fans and things like that.

That was crazy. And then there was sort of this. There was this woman you were going to meet, and then that kind of fell through. And then something else happened. Tell us, tell us about that.

Well, there was. There was someone I knew from Berlin. We've seen each other a couple times at parties. And eventually I was like, in the middle of my trip, she emailed me saying that she was going to travel to Southeast Asia and that someone in our group of friends told her about it. So she wanted to connect and see if we can go out for a cup of coffee. But she didn't have any specifics, like when and where and why. And I was so far away. I had like, like a couple months to go until I made it into Laos and eventually Thailand and Bangkok, where she would fly into. So I couldn't, I couldn't give her, like. Couldn't give her like a green, green light, like, say. Yep, okay, let's meet. Let's. You know, I was just.

Two o' clock on. Two o' clock on Tuesday, right?

Exactly. So I was like, yeah, if it works out, of course. And it did work out. I made it there in time. I was at the airport with my bike. But she didn't arrive. She didn't show up. And. Do you want to tell what happened, Josie?

Did you get cold feet? Josie, I also want to hear your side of, like, when you heard about this guy who's been traveling for a bazillion years by himself.

Now, other than our passing friend Ingo,

like, did you have any preconceived notions

of, you know, what he was going to be like or what this having coffee was going to be like?

Well, I find it really interesting what he was doing. Really exciting and as Daniel said, we had met a couple of times before, so I kind of knew what kind of guy he was. And because I love traveling myself very much, I thought we probably have a lot in common and lots to talk about. So I was looking forward to meeting him. But I didn't arrive on time because that was in 2010, April, and a volcano on Iceland.

Iceland's volcano. Right, right. That screwed up air travel. Yeah, that's right.

All of Europe was just shut down. No air travel whatsoever. And that happened exactly on the day I was supposed to fly out. So I couldn't. Had to go back home. And, yeah, I called him up and said, hey, doesn't look like I'm gonna travel anytime soon. And in the end, I could fly out a week. A week later it was.

Yeah.

And in the meantime, we started talking on Skype, getting to know each other.

I think there was a very crucial time that week that you were delayed because I didn't have anything to do in Bangkok. There was no reason for me to be there except for meeting Joey.

And I didn't have anything to do because I had said goodbye to everyone at home. And I didn't feel like just going back saying, hey, oh, I'm still here. So we just hung out on Skype and just talked and really, really got to know each other.

That's nice. That's so perfect. I mean, again, just, you know, it's kind of, I think this. With both of you, you know, sort of these. The planets aligning and, you know, just the. The organic, slash, karmic nature of things, you know, coming together and having, you know, meaning to be kind of thing. That's. I think that's just amazing. So. So then that week, I think the.

The day before Josephine flew out, or. Yeah, the day before, we were, like, on Skype for eight or nine consecutive hours, just chatting. So by the time she physically made it there.

Yeah, so. So the air clears, so to speak, and then, like, you're able to rebook your. Your trip, Josie.

Yeah, yeah, that was not a problem.

And then. So how long. Once you were face to face, how long did. Were you guys able to. To tour and travel together then?

That was about four months.

Oh, wow. Gosh.

Yeah. I had originally, I had different plans. I wanted to travel from Bangkok to India, Fly. Fly home from India. And, yeah, we just hung out for a little while in Bangkok, and then we never really talked about it. It just got on the back of Daniel's bike. He made some room for me, and. And we just kept Going.

So your, your motto, your T shirt would be like one backpack, zero wheels, zero money.

Is that.

Exactly.

So

did like. So this time together for that, that four months, was it like, were both of you like getting little side gigs and stuff to be able to, you know, continue to travel or, or. Josie, had you saved up some money to go do this or what? How was your. Your travel planning?

Yeah, I, I had saved up money. I. I always traveled like that. Save up a little bit of money, go travel, and when it's finished, then go home and save up again. So that was my, my concept. And during that time, I think you didn't work too much.

I didn't work much, no. I was in the fortunate position to have just finished the job.

Oh, perfect.

And I had a, I don't know, two or three thousand dollars, which isn't much, but it got me in Southeast Asia. It can keeps you going for maybe a couple months. Yeah, if you live cheaply. Yeah.

So. So then that's cool. Then, Daniel, do you wind up your trip and then come back to Germany or then kind of bring us from where that part of the story movie ends and then to what came next with this new documentary, this new film.

Right. I left in 2008 with the plan to circumnavigate the world by motorcycle. And when I met Joey, we toured around together. And it was a fantastic time. Without having it planned. We tried to find other ways because Josephine had to go back after the four months that he had planned. Right. And then we were looking for ways to be together again. And then he came down to Australia. Australia. And we traveled there for a while. And also New Zealand. He.

And that was. That was two wheels. That was both of you on bikes?

Both of me. Both of us on. On my bike.

Okay, gotcha.

And. But there was no way you could just leave everything behind and join me on the rest of this world trip. And because I at that point was like on the other side of the world, I was like halfway. I was. I was okay with taking a break for a while to prepare the two of us or to get the two of us ready to continue and finish the trip together. So we. You flew home. I did another job. I came home as well. And I was working on the first film that we've been talking about the past half hour, like somewhere else tomorrow. And Josephine was getting a motorcycle for ourselves and the driver's license. Some practice. We did some practice runs a couple weeks here and there. And then 2014, we. We set off. We shipped the bikes to New York and rode across the US and then up to Alaska and then all the way down to Ushuaia. Wow. In Argentina. And that was about two years. And then we just added another year because we wanted to. Since we're at it, you know, just wanted to. To do Africa as well while you're at it.

We just weren't ready to go home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow. So was it. Was it a similar kind of zigzaggy across North America and, like, I presume that also would include Canada as well as the States and whatnot?

Oh, very much so. The zigzagging continued. Our initial starting point was at Dead Horse Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, our northernmost motorable point. But we had to go from New York, we had to go down across to Los Angeles first. And I worked on a documentary for a while, and then we rode up and we worked in. In Canada picking wild berries for a winery. This is actually a guy I met in Laos many years ago. I just walked down the Malecon, The Mekong kind of. What is it? What do you call it? Like boardwalk or something? Yeah. Delta along the. Along the river. Yeah. And he saw my bike. He's like, whoa. And we got talking and became friends. And he said, when you ever find yourself in Canada, I can. I can give you work. And so we did a couple years later, work for him. Yeah.

Wow, that's so cool. That is so cool. So then, let's see. So I'm just trying to pick, like, how many. So you go from New York to la, so that's west, and then you go north up to Canada and berries and whatnot, and then take us from there, then circle back down south, all the way through Central and then to South America, or. What was your route for that?

After the berry job was in British Columbia. From there, we went further up to Yukon and then into Alaska. Traveled around there for a while. Had a lot of breakdowns in that time. For some reason, Joey's old bike kind of gave us some gray hair and. But we made it in time to. Before the end of the summer. We made it all the way up to the. To them across the Arctic Circle, and then all the way up to Prudhoe Bay. Yeah. And then. And then we had to hurry down because it got really cold, really fast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

And so the bike that you rode, Daniel, was this the same bike that you had done all the other touring in?

I was about to do that. But just, I think a couple months before our departure for New York, I updated the old 30 year old bike to be a slightly newer 1200 GS. And in hindsight, it was one of the smartest things we did because on our website, if you, if you want to take a look at the bikes section, all the work we've done is in the, in Josephine's bikes column. It's a long list of repairs and, and work and breakdowns and for some reason, very luckily with the 1200, I didn't have any problems for the entire length of the trip. We rode 100,000 kilometers on that second part. Gosh, for three years. And all I did was change one battery, a lot of tires, a lot of oil. Air filters. Oil filters. And that's it.

That's amazing.

That's great.

Golly, that's. There's.

Yeah, there's a testament, there's a war, you know, there's. Yeah, you need to call.

I'm just saying it because I'm not trying to advertise. I mean if the newer bikes are all pretty cool now, they're pretty, they go for a long time. I'm just saying because I was stunned.

Yeah.

By it. By myself.

Well, and you also, is memory serving me correctly that you had your, your other bike. Was it changed its age or something?

It did, yeah.

How'd that happen?

Well, that was my first riding lessons. Daniel thought it was a good idea that I start with his bike.

Yeah, I see.

Pretty big and heavy bike and very powerful and yeah, that went wrong.

We didn't pick the right place to do it. We didn't have an open kind of Home Depot parking lot available. So we tried on a very narrow, bumpy ocean road in Cambodia and yeah, something got in the way and Josephine lost control and ran into a wall. In a wall.

I actually bent the frame and before I got on the bike, I asked Daniel, are you sure? I mean, this is your bike, you need it for your journey and I don't want to break it. And he said, oh, don't worry, it's unbreakable. And I bent the frame.

That's what you think?

Yeah. Well, anyways, we had to exchange the frame and the only exchange or the, the only other frame I could find in Germany was, was even a couple years older than, than the original.

So that's why it changed its age so. Well, so some of the bikes obviously aren't indestructible. But how about the two of you? I know that we're talking with Glenn, he was always talking about, you know, you know, this, you know, this dumping of the bike and Messing up his shoulder or this or that. You know, how about, you know, for the two of you, was it fairly injury free or, or I know, from seeing some of your pictures and obviously the movie, you know, you're. There's plenty of times where the bike's on its side and getting dumped is no fun thing, no matter, you know, where you're at, even if it's, you know, dirt, not asphalt or whatever. But how, how were you guys vis a vis injuries?

Well, still in one piece each.

Okay, good.

It's a touchwood. Yeah, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. We, we were really lucky. I think. We, We've dropped the bikes a number of times in very difficult terrain, but everything was at low speeds. You know, with the extra heavy luggage and the difficult terrain and exhaustion and difficulties, it's normal. I don't think there's any war traveler who's ridden around the world and never dropped his bike.

No, no, it exists. I think it's very common. I think the thing is always being able to get.

The bike can break, but so can the riders.

But it's exactly like you guys were pretty, you know, pretty, you know, agile or whatever and, you know, being able to, to get off without it, you know, pinning you or lacerating you or,

you know, I think that real, the real risk is when you have an accident on the road. Most of our accidents or little, little accidents we had were off road somewhere with no traffic, somewhere in the mountains, trying to maneuver a certain obstacle or going through sand or ditches or whatever. Yeah, but on the road, that, that's something you should avoid.

Yeah, it would be so miserable. I mean, I, I not on a bike, but my wife and I, years ago were going through kind of the rural area and from Bhaktapur, Nepal, to the Annapurnas. And you know, the roads were just, you know, the roads would get washed out and there would be, you know, just these teeny weeny little, you know,

things that you would just, you know,

you'd look down these ravines and you'd see toppled trucks, you know, down at the bottom that they were, you know, just, just, you could see why they would topple down to the bottom. So I had a, my wife and I also, we rented a Suzuki in the Isle of Man. And I was, I was not at all used to. This is not, I mean, this is

not even other than it's a motorcycle that's about as similar to, to what you guys are doing as it goes. But it was just so Confusing, you know, because I'm.

Now I'm like, for me, riding on what felt like the wrong side of

the road and we would come to these roundabouts and, you know, and I'm totally lost, you know, there's no, I have no gps, I have no phone, you know, I'm just like totally lost. You know, I can't unfold my map all of a sudden, you know, at this roundabout and figure out where the

heck I'm supposed to go.

And even though, you know, Isle of

Man is a pretty simple, straightforward kind

of place, you know, it just was so discombobulating. So I just have to say, I

mean the fact that the adventuresome nature

of what you have versus like me in an English speaking country with asphalt roads and street signs, you know, I was just totally out of my element. So I have deep respect for the things that you guys were able to do for, you know, day after day

and just, you know, go, go around the world and do that so well,

compared to North American roads, the roads in Isle of Man or Ireland, England, any of these places, they're very narrow, so I can totally understand.

Oh, thank you, you're very kind. No, no, seriously.

And the traffic is fast as well. People have to go places quickly and they go to roads every day so they know what they're doing. But as a foreigner, you totally, yeah, you struggle. We feel the same way.

Yeah, I think I upset a few

people when I was trying to learn

get from point A to point B. But they were very kind to bikes there, you know, because the whole race

and the TT and stuff, I think.

Oh yeah.

A very bike friendly, you know, kind of culture. But you know, I was, I was testing their patience. So.

So.

Well, I also want to shift and talk. I've seen bits of this in your Vimeo preview and I saw bits of this in the first movie that for both of you, your adventuresome nature doesn't really seem to be limited to traveling the world on two wheels, but scuba diving and skydiving and you know what else? Tell us, let's hear about both of your adventuresome resumes. What kinds of things have you done and where?

Well, even on the last trip that we did mostly on motorcycles, we had to go on different modes of transport at times in order to see the things we wanted to see. See, I remember in Botswana when we wanted to see the what is called Okavango Delta and see all the animals and, and crocodiles and elephants, giraffes and zebras, it was at the end of the dry season. So that made it very easy because all the animals, millions of dents, their. They're crammed in a very small area where there's water left for them. But you can best see it all from. From the water. So we hired a canoe and a guide, and we just paddle out there. And we were like. This one point was very exciting when we were super close to hippos.

Wow.

Which can be very dangerous. Sure. Also very impressive. Yeah.

And elephants as well.

Well, I. You. I saw the shot with your bike and your bikes, your boots and.

And elephants. Yeah, it was like.

That was a.

Yeah, it looked like we were. We jumped out of the booth.

That's the impression that I got.

Yeah. Yikes.

So were. The elephants can go either which way. I mean, they can sometimes be, you know, just, you know, cool and fun

and beautiful and charming, and other times they can get spooked and get upset and.

Oh, yeah.

Not like humans. So did you. Were the animals that you were able to see, were they generally, you know,

happy animals, or did you have any issues with that?

Well, it's very hard for us to read their minds, but we usually. We usually comply with all the safety rules that we were given on location. You know, when. When you're in an area where there are lions or are elephants, then people will tell you, you know, you should behave this way. You should do this and keep your distance and all that. But there were a couple times on our trips where it was a bit icy. The elephants. One of the elephants fake charged us.

Oh, my God.

Because I think we feel. He felt that we were too close or something, so we were running around hiding in bushes and stuff.

Wow.

And the other time I can remember was in Sumatra. I was watching orangutans, and there was a couple, and they were just playing and jumping and, you know, jumping from one tree to another. And then suddenly the guy just came towards me very quickly, trying to make sure that I know his boss. And I think that was very close, too. But I saw.

Yeah, so I saw an orangutan. I was down in Cape Town, and so it was just like in a parking lot. I mean, it. You know, it wasn't. You know, there's lots of orangutans around the parking lot. It was at that. That southernmost tip, you know, where the two oceans meet. And so it's a very touristy kind of place. And I was there with a group of other people, and we'd gotten there via bus. And we're all in the bus and, you know, we're all getting ready to go, and we've had a very pleasant time. And it's been real cute to see the orangutans, you know, swinging around and doing their thing. And there was this couple, and they had a child in a car seat in the back of their car. And the father was in the front getting ready to, you know, get out. And the wife, like, real quickly must have forgotten something or something ran around to the back and opened up. It was like a hatchback kind of station wagon, knee kind of thing. And an orangutan was sort of, like, coming by. And I don't know if he or she smelled something or what, but, like, started to hop up to get into the back of their car. And they just took this swipe at the woman. So the woman screams and, like, we all freak out because we didn't know how to, you know, badly hurt she was. And we're all, like, banging on the bus windows and saying, you know.

You know, there's.

There's a.

There's a baby in the back of this car, you know.

Yeah.

And. Oh, it was in it.

And then, like, it's just as soon as it started, was as soon as it ended in, the orangutan sort of, like, immediately lost interest and walked, you know, back. Like, nothing. Like, it had never had any interest in the car or anything. And that, you know, the husband had, like, no idea what was going on, and he, you know, then put it together. So. Yeah, so, I mean, those things can change. Just really kind of come out of the blue. And you know, her, I have great respect and fear of those kinds of things happening. So it's just. That's crazy.

Yeah. Sometimes it's unpredictable.

Yeah, absolutely. So you've had. You guys have had the first trip and kind of piece of the world tour with that and then now done this. What kinds of things did you learn from the first traveling together that then was helpful or very applicable then on this North American, South American, African tour?

I don't think there was anything that we learned. Because you already knew it.

I guess you had already experienced it.

No, I don't know. I mean, first of all, Josephine has traveled before, very extensively. I have as well, before the big trip, even when I started with Lars. So we were very familiar, very, very cool with traveling with being in a foreign place with kind of putting ourselves out there. And then there's this other incredible factor which neither one of us had ever thought would happen, is that we can just be around each other with no problems whatsoever. So we found it extremely easy to just be around each other and to travel with each other for some reason. And that's been like this until the last day before we came back. And it's still like this, I mean,

since the first day.

So we wake up in the morning like, Jesus, how is this possible? It is an incredible. Bravo, incredible gift.

Yeah, I mean, that's honestly, I mean, that's really saying something. It makes me just think back about your marathon Skype conversations and whatnot. Spending whatever kind of time together in communication with one another and even going through challenging, weary, stressful kinds of circumstances and, you know, potentially scary, dicey things with wild animals and everything else. And in spite of all that, to

still, you know, even like each other is a testament to how you must

feel about one another. That's very cool.

I mean, we've certainly pushed boundaries. When you travel, you just learn a lot about yourself and it is tough going sometimes it's difficult. You get tired, you get, you get annoyed and grumpy and at each other as well. But we've never reached a point where we kind of lost it or kind of went, crossed, you know, crossed the line or anything. You know what I mean?

That's so, that's amazing. That's.

Luckily. Yeah.

As a, in a former life, I'm still a clinical psychologist, but I don't practice. But in a former life, you know, I did a lot of couples therapy

and man, you know, I can tell you in a lot of different circumstances, it doesn't take much to make someone, you know, kind of, you know, go nuts. So.

Oh yeah.

The stress that you guys had and

being able to do that and, you know, maybe take solace from the connection that the two of you have and the, you know, so I'm sure there's like plenty of times where one's the support for the other and that, that trades off during, you know, the ups and the downs of that kind of travel. But that's, that's really, that's really terrific.

So now I don't want to downplay that gift that we have with, with the ease that, you know, how easy it is for us to be together. But I think what helped a lot is that each one of us has had a very intense long term travel experience before. When you travel on your own for say six months or one year or even more, you learn so much about you and you get, of course you get frustrated like any other traveler, but there's no one around you that you can blame it on and you have this realization where you think, okay, it is me. I have to work on. On me, and how do I get through it? And I think having that in our arsenal, I think the two of us as well, that makes us equal travel partners and as well, maybe a little bit more understanding of each other's situation in certain situations.

I think that's really a good, insightful point, Daniel. I mean, it's, you know, that whole aspect of knowing yourself, knowing the circumstances and how you react to it, but then also, you know, the kindred spirit kind of thing that you've kind of done that together. So, joy you've done for being the world traveler before Daniel, and you guys doing what you've done. Was most of your travel also solo?

Yeah, yeah, most of it. I really enjoyed traveling on my own and just. Yeah, Daniel just said learning so much about myself on the one hand, and then getting into the kind of situations and experiences you only have when you're on your own because you're more approachable people. Yeah, you get. You get to talk to people more easily, I think.

Yeah. And that was one of the things Glenn talked about as well, too. Like, if you walk into some place, you know, with. With a partner, you know, whatever, a girlfriend or, you know, another Lars or whatever, the two of you are going to talk to each other kind of a thing generally, you know, maybe you start to, you know, have someone else. But Glenn's experience, which I'm sure was the same with the two of you when you were traveling solo. You know, you go into a place, a town, a village, a restaurant, coffee shop, whatever, by yourself, It's a different, you know, kind of thing. You're much more approachable and. And, you know, by virtue of being the bike, having the bike and being in the gear that the bike, you know, requires you to wear in those kinds of circumstances, you know, makes you kind of a curiosity to people, too. And as long as you're open and friendly to, you know, talking about things and people want to see your bike, I.

You.

One of the shots, Daniel, of In Africa with the. The kids sitting on the bike and stuff, I thought was just beautiful. You know, it's that kind of a thing. It becomes in a. In a kind of an interesting way, kind of like an icebreaker, you know, of the people, have a curiosity, and you communicate as best you can. So do you. Do you. Are you both good with languages? I mean, obviously English and German is no problem, but, you know, you've been

through as many countries as there are languages, probably so how was that ever a an issue?

Or you just kind of learn a way to communicate?

We try to learn a bunch of words for each language or each country that we travel through to just break the ice, to be able to say hi and how are you? Or thank you, can I have this? Or how do I get food? Stuff like that. Just basic stuff. And then the more sophisticated stuff then obviously has to be dealt with in another way. Either a interpreter or someone who's willing to translate, which we always enjoy, because then you can really dive into a culture more deeply if you understand what's on their mind.

Sure.

But I think between the two of us, we speak English, German, Spanish, French is poor, but it goes passable. It works. Yeah. And it's proven to get us by.

I think people appreciate the effort, you know, I mean, to overgeneralize to Americans. There's oftentimes a well earned bad reputation of never even wanting to try, you know, just going over and expecting everyone speaks English, you know, and you're the, you know, the American's the visitor, you

know, and it's like, oh, wait a minute, that's not cool. You know, that's not the right thing.

So. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. I just have a couple more quick questions if I could squeeze them in. Is that okay?

Sure, sure, of course. No problem.

Good. So

you keep track of like what bits and parts and things have broken

down on bikes and things like that. So you must have also kept track of how many countries you two have been to. So is that on the website too? Or how many do you know off the top of your head? How many places between the two of you you visited?

I think we've mentioned it somewhere on the website. It's not something that we advertise because I don't know, I mean, it's not that we keep track because it's. I don't know how to explain it, but when we, when we returned from this whole world trip, we came back and we were full of experiences, but we didn't feel like this was an accomplishment. We just did it because we wanted to.

You weren't going out to set an award or get an award or get a trophy from bagging countries or something? Sure, sure.

So we can't really tell you exactly how many countries we've traveled. I think we did a rough calculation at one point and it was about 100 countries.

Oh, wow.

And it also depends on whether you want to count Gibraltar.

Oh, sure. Yeah, there's. Yeah, there's those Iffy kinds of things like. Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. That just totally fell stuff up. That's, that's, that's good though.

So out of all those, is there some place in particular that or, or a couple of places for the two of you that, that you felt was like a highlight, and if so, where and why?

We, we're happy to answer that question, but I have to give you a little bit of a, A, what do you call an instruction to reading that, that answer first, because we get this, we get this question quite a lot and you should be careful because it is highly subjective. So don't base your next trip on now.

Wait.

Write you a nasty letter. Hey, you guys told me this was.

All right.

All disclaimers. So for our audience, you know, just. This is, this is totally, you know, not a recommendation.

Yeah. Because everyone is different and everyone has different experiences. And it also depends on the time and when you go and why and your motives and everything. So. And also there's two categories. There's one category which goes for exploring a country, and these would be Nepal, India, Colombia, Colombia, Bolivia. So many Africa. Maybe Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia.

South Africa.

Yes, there's a lot of places which is, it's fantastic to, to experience, to explore, to, to just learn about. But then there's the second category. There's also a lot of highlights in there and it's, it's the category of would we want to live there? You know, I mean, as interesting as Africa, a lot of countries in Africa were, I wouldn't necessarily want to spend a lot of time like several years and live there for several reasons, economic climate, whatever it is like, you know. Right, right. But if, if you were to, after having seen a fair bit of the world, we would be happily live in Canada for a while or in Australia, but exploring what is a good, adventurous country.

But there are so many special places in the world and every country has its own gems. I think they're worth trying to. And,

but if you, if since this is a podcast, which is very timely, we can maybe point out that it is a good time now to go travel Colombia, because it's like your backyard from you, from where you guys are and the country coming out of a 50 year civil war now which has ended, the people are in a fantastic mood and the country opens up and it's just a sheer joy to travel around because everyone is just happy and curious about other people, tourists, they want to just ask a lot of questions.

Well, it's so beautiful too. It offers.

It is beautiful.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, very different to Glenn's experience.

Very different.

Exactly. Yeah, good point, very good point.

So for listeners that are sort of like me, like very envious and, and voyeuristic and sort of, you know, imagine bits and pieces of trying to do some of the stuff that you've done. What are there certain kinds of, you know, advice that you would have about someone that would like, want to travel but perhaps feel like they're tied down by economic work responsibilities or. What bits of advice would you offer if they were going to try and do the two wheels, one world, zero dollar model?

Well, I wouldn't recommend adopting it. The zero money thing, I think especially if you're getting into learning how to long term travel or learning how to enjoy yourself in a foreign environment. I would save some money and then go for two reasons. It, it makes it a little bit more, less, less stressful and more enjoyable. And just as a ballpark figure, we've talked about budgeting to a lot of other overlander travelers, not just motorcycles, bicycles, camper vans or whatever 4x4s, and it seems that about $35 a day for one person or $50 a day for two people is a good average for anywhere in the world. To eat, sleep, travel, you know, maybe even the occasional airfare or ferry or it. National park admission, all that.

Gotcha.

Would that include, would that be like a combination of hostels, hotels and camping or.

Excellent. Yeah, everything, everything, everything included. And our advice would be just save some money and take some time off or quit your job. Because whatever you do, you will, you will. Well, I highly doubt it. I have never met anyone who regretted it. I don't think it's possible.

Yeah.

And if you're hesitant, just know that the moment when you decide to do it, that is the most scary. Everything else, everything on that journey, wherever you go, Colombia, Cuba, I don't know, Bolivia, Africa, everything else will be less stressful than that moment when you decide, okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna quit my job, I'm gonna, you know, sell my apartment or whatever. You do that, that'll be when, when, when you've done that, you're, you're, you're

there, you've made the commitment, there's no more ambivalence. So that's, yeah, that's good. So I also just, I, I have to, because I'm so curious about your next movie. Tell us how, where are you in, are you like in post production now? You're doing edits? Where, how's, how's the film coming along?

Well, we've, we've come back this summer a couple of months ago and the footage that we've accumulated now from, you know, opposed to the first trip now from several cameras, camera men and women. We've categorized and sorted all that and it's all ready to go. We are into the editing phase right now.

Great.

And it's a lot of footage.

I was gonna say hours. Just thinking about multiple cameras and B roll and number of years, you know.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's maybe, Maybe it's like 20 Hollywood movies that we have to go through now in order to make one film.

You know, you need to like do the documentary because I can't wait as long as I want to say then about what you should do.

You should do like a, you know, a 10 episode series, you know, and get it picked up on Amazon or Netflix or something.

Because that, I mean that, because you

could go deep that way and, and you know, we could really, you know, enjoy that. So anyway, but, but speaking of that, so then you also, for people that are interested, you also will have a book coming out in a calendar and tell us what other kinds of things are, are available of people that want to, you know, enjoy and share in your trip.

We kind of, you know, just try to, to make the products, the photos, the videos and everything that we've brought from our trip and put them into different packages to, to get an interest from as many people as possible to help us finance the post production phase because it's quite a long slow process. So we packaged this book deal which is something we've never done before. But we decided to write a book this time which is more like a coffee table book with a lot of pictures and then kind of a story to the pictures. It's not very text heavy, but we came from the trip and, and we know that there is certain situations that we captured with our cameras really well. But a lot of moments we were unable to use the camera because it was prohibited or the situation didn't allow it or it did even happen faster than we could even just do anything about it.

Set up.

Yeah. And these moments we want to talk about in the book, just use words and get the story across that way.

Brilliant. Oh, that's brilliant. Well, we can't wait to see all that. So I know this probably going to be just about my last question, but any predicted dates when things will start to be out? The book, the next movie, that sort of thing.

Well, the last time we worked in a movie we were kind of. How do you. How do you say it? Spinning the wheels for a little bit in the beginning. Took a couple of months to. To figure out that there was, there was no way for a newcomer like me to attract attention, find producers or a TV channel to collaborate with and get it done. So eventually I got into the post production myself and that the intense post production editing time was just under a year, I think 10 months. So we estimate the time for the new movie depending on how the story develops. It may be very possible that we find a story string that requires us to produce and record a framework story that that kind of cushions our experiences from on the road. Then it may be a little bit longer. But we, we very, we will try very, very hard to have the movie done before Christmas next year at the very latest.

Great. Well, good. Well, I think that we'll very much be looking forward to that. So I guess my perfectly final question is how can people connect with you? Follow you, see your work if you want to, you know, tell us here. And then we'll also put links in the show notes for people too.

Sure, sure. We use all the social media channels, some more, some less. But we are Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and everything. But the best jump off point to find all that is our website, which is www.openexploros.com.

got it, got it. Well, I very much encourage people to check all that out. I'm gonna have to do some more drilling because there's obviously parts that, that I'm curious about that I haven't seen. But I really encourage, I mean, it's just I've. I've had the photos that you sent me this morning on my screen here

to kind of give me some inspiration.

Every time I look away, I see you guys sitting.

I don't know, the mountains are in

the background and your bikes are sort of like perfectly framing you. And I just really encourage people to, you know, to take a look at your work, to read your story. But your photographs and things are just fantastic. And the videos, you know, very much recommend people to see the original story on Netflix and any other place DVD that they might be able to get a hold of it. And I just want to thank you so much, Josie and Daniel, for being a guest on the show. It's just been a wonderful time and I so look forward to seeing the movie come out and all the other kinds of projects that you have going on. So let's, let's keep in touch.

Definitely. Thank you so much for having us on. Chris. It was a pleasure to talking to you. We had a good time.

Great.

Thank you.

Thanks. Bye bye.

Bye bye.

Living a Life in Full is a

production of Stout Media, a subsidiary of Gordian Knott llc. Assistant Gracie Wong Music Dan o' Brien Sam Rude Graphics Larry Newberry Executive producer

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