Every productive person thinks like this

Every generation inherits a story. The question is, did someone else write it for you? Science, however, tells us that there is a time that a person should sleep to be productive. Yeah, for example, 8 hours for an adult, I think about 8 hours thereabout. Someone that wants to motivate you, you can't be sleeping that long, I want to be productive. But science tells you that for you to be productive, you have to sleep that long. Do you think we are living in a simulation? Someone is lying to somebody.

I really don't think the secret of productivity is in terms of how long you sleep. I think it's a matter of when you sleep. You sleep when you are done. The whole 8-hour sleep every day and all that, I mean, it's not scientifically proven anyway. But you should get rest. You should get rest. What is rest? Rest means change your activities. If you have been sleeping too much, rest means start working.

Hmm, I'm just hearing this.

Oh yes.

From how you walk to how you think to how an entire continent has been engineered to see itself.

The moment Africa can stop seeing herself as a continent of men that have been beaten down, we have to look to people of other race and color and their product as what is of original and their thinking as what is supreme, I think something begins to shift about us as a people. But you go and read the story of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew. It was benevolent dictatorship, and it was so because the people that need the change may not want the change. Most times their culture, their life has been built to benefit from the decadence of what is killing them. They are as corrupt as those ruling them. What you think is that it's just the people, or is it just the system? But the system is there because of the people. They share rice during the election because the people take it.

Yes.

So there is the corruption is at the level of the people. The people are the ones that also come into government. And I'm saying this across Africa. Yeah, there's a need for entities or an entity who understand that the problem is both the people and the system, and benevolently but with strong arms can deal with both.

In your opinion, have we had any benevolent dictator in Africa?

Africa?

Yes. This conversation pulls back the curtain, and once you hear it, You can't unhear it.

The system of government we currently have in Africa, is it designed to work or it is designed to be infiltrated?

Do you honestly think that in this age we can have it successfully, have a benevolent dictator in Africa?

Never say never.

Do you think it's the answer to our predicament?

We have many problems, but leadership tops it. Does Africa really have a friend? For instance, look at what is going on— Iran, Israel, Strait of Hormuz being closed down. Energy price across the world is shooting up. Think for a moment what happens if Africa shuts down for a month. Think about that for a moment. So the whole world depends on Africa.

How important is Africa to the world?

As important as everything can be. Hey friends, I want to welcome you to the Classified Podcast.

Um, Myself and my team, we've been working so hard behind the scenes to get different intellectual conversations across to you. We know that these conversations will form the basis for what will change our world as we know it, because words form narratives, narratives shape culture. And this is the reason why I want to invite you to join me on this journey, not just as one who is gonna view this today. I want to have you on board with me. And I, I like for you to just do these 3 quick things for me. Number 1, I like for you to like this particular podcast. You know, don't just watch, just like it. I want you to do that for me. And when you do this, the algorithm takes this to as many people as possible who can now have access to enjoy the very same thing you're enjoying. Also, I like for you to drop comment. Let's know how this has impacted you, things you've learned, and sometimes just your own view. And I like for you to also subscribe on this YouTube channel. I like for us to grow together as a community. I look forward to having you again and again on the Classified Podcast, and I can't wait to see you some other time.

Thank you.

A lot of people believe that productivity is equal to busyness, or let me put it this way, they believe that the more you are busy ought to amount to productivity. First of all, that clearly sounds wrong, but it's the reality of many people. They equate busyness with being productive. What's your idea about productivity?

I've, I've worked people, I mean, trying to— and these are very honest people, sincere people who are sincere lovers of God. They're trying to build a brand, trying to build something, trying to build this, trying to build that. They are busy, they are working hard. But a productive person is not just the one who is busy, is the one who have found simple ways to get things done. So I understand that if people still go the route of complexities, so what should take 20 minutes can be done in 2 hours.

2 hours.

You know, there is no avenue to measure what it is that they are doing, and, um, there is no innovation, there is no So before we talk about productivity in terms of work, in terms of what is on ground, we have to talk about productivity in terms of the quality of thinking. If you are not productive in your mind, you cannot produce on ground.

Yes.

So it, it begins with the ability to analyze, to conclude, to narrow down and reinform yourself about the best way to get the result that you need, you know. And I'm always of the opinion that results will be got in in a way that it becomes possible to keep getting that same kind of result or more.

So let me paint a scenario. You exist in an ecosystem, maybe work, um, school, or any system at all that glorifies quantity over quality, in the sense that if I can get this done in 20 minutes, they believe the person that gets it done in 2 hours is more productive than I am because they see the effort. And, um, we are now in a generation where you can now get that done in 20 minutes. How do you now survive a system that glorifies quantity over quality?

You know, I think, I think that's one of the reasons why Africa is where it is, and I'm going to say that. So years back, um, my family has this fantastic organization. I grew up, you know, knowing my dad as the one who produced for most of the big guys in this country when it comes to music, sound, when it comes to the topmost guys, um, talk about them, who is who in this country. I've had access to many of those live streams in my early days as a child. So we have different compartments to what we do. We have a coupling—

a coupling— coupling section.

Yes, section where speakers, amplifiers are coupled. We have a sales section where they are sold. This one, they are imported from China, they sell them. We have a repair section.

Oh wow.

So just like what you have in your— what is it, this, um, Slot?

Slot.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yes, Slot, where you have a repair session. So we have a repair session and they pay, guys. We also have a rental session where people can rent equipment of different degrees. So there was this particular time that someone brought something and I saw that it was just a screen wire that cut. All I had to do was just get a soldering iron, get the lead, and put the screen wire back. But the issue is that that was prohibited, because if I do that, the guy who needed to pay will say, so it's simple. So usually we get to value time that looks like we are busy over getting the job done, because we are dealing with people who are not honest. They, they want to— they have been wired to see the quantity of time devoted into the thing as the yardstick or the measure for what determines that you have to take this kind of money, not that the job is done.

That the job is done.

So if you want to redefine things, first you might lose.

Yes, um, because that was going to be my next question. How then do you thrive in that system?

I mean, business-wise, business-wise. You give them what their culture demands because business is about making profit. You get the job done in 5 minutes, keep it on ground for 2 days, come back and take it after 2 days. It's not my fault, it's their culture.

But doesn't that continue that vicious cycle that we are trying to—

Who told you it's a vicious cycle? It's vicious for you because you decide to think like that. Every culture, for instance, let's look, let's narrow down to how cultures are formed. Yeah, there is a culture of distraction in society that if we all know how this happens, if the government want to get things done, all you have to do is to put something out or a news out, something that distract the people, give people something to talk about, something to talk about, just get busy with those stuff, and then you can just go right in the midst of all that. It could be something legitimate, it could be something they're arguing about, If I could be about the person that they're arguing about, but something more cynical is going on behind the scenes. You just passed through. So that, that thing exists as a practice because it works on you. It exists because of you. It exists for you. Wow. It exists because that's who you are. So the one who is at the losing end is the one who can be predicted. So, I mean, if we are going to re-engineer culture and all that, you want to redefine things, then First, I think you must have come to the point where you're an authority in that field. Yes, because if you're not an authority, replacement is just everywhere. True. And as an authority, you can have your way around things, but I think you still have to do what you have to do.

You have to do.

So I— you made mention of something, and I want to touch on that a bit, how that, um, productivity starts from the mind. Oh yes, quality of person. Yes, it's not just about the work or the result that the person gets, the quality of mind. We live, or we are speaking from a part of the world that does not put premium on matters that surround the mind, mental capacity, even mental disorders. We demonize them.

We don't demonize them, we make a profit out of them.

I want you to explain that.

If you're running mad in Nigeria, you can just— anyways, see, this is it. Apart from the things that people know that I do, I help people in building their brand and all those stuff. One time I was struggling, really struggling so bad, really struggling, trying to help someone see something in a way. And as I get in the place of prayer, the Lord said to me, so what are you trying to— I'm trying to help this person build brand. So what are you trying to do again? Build this brand. So what are you trying to do? Then I understand. First, I'm trying to help you build. Than the brand. Then it occurred to me that building requires wisdom, requires work.

Yes.

If you have the eye for the brand, you have the whatever, but you don't have the mind for the work, we cannot build. So through the— see, listen, it's, it's not, it's not, it's not rocket science. People who are basic, who don't innovate, who can't think of many ways to get things done who can't, you know, improvise and they can't do so much in life. It doesn't matter the number of hands on their head. It still boils down to the quality of mind, the quality of thinking, in the sense that the same way people go to the gym to gym and flex their muscles, increase their muscles and all that, and muscle mass and all those things, the same way that the mind can be flexed. And one of the ways I believe the mind can be trained when it comes to productivity is to train the mind with deadlines. You've got to give yourself deadlines that make no sense. You've got to make sure that you can't break those deadlines. You've got to put yourself in a place where you are not violating your own rules. You've got to put yourself in a place where you are— you put things in front of you to get them done and you get them done at the time stipulated in such a way that the mind is now boosted to see you as a goal getter, not as one who is struggling. Every time you set target to get things done and you fail to get them done, you have positioned your mind to see yourself as one who violates.

It's fraudulent.

Yes, and that mind is being abused, that mind is being defeated, that mind is being crushed. That same quality of mind cannot build anything to world standard. I know that like I know my name.

So primarily what you're saying is there's discipline but there is structure. Oh yes, and there must be penalties for the things that ought to be done that you fail to do.

I mean, the kind of discipline— there's an adage in Yoruba that says that you have to, you have to urinate at a spot for it to foam. The kind of discipline I talk about is not the discipline to just keep carrying things, lift things, and do things. It's the discipline to remain with something till that same thing produces. It's the discipline to keep hitting the rock till it brings out water. It's mental fortitude. It's the ability to stay with something till you crack it open.

I have seen, yes, that not everybody is wired like this naturally. Should we relegate this to natural wiring, or is there something. Can you speak to that?

As to when you were born, yes, they carried you, yes, you moved to crawling, yes, you started to learn to walk, yes. Why didn't you remain like that?

Growth.

Everybody is wired— people may not have the same level of IQ, but everybody's wired to grow in some ways, yes. And what you don't put to work can't grow. I mean, that's just it. Um, see, see, I, I, I get it as an employer, People are built differently, and that can be frustrating. But the, the person that will shift is the one who knows that, for instance, I cannot want your good better than you want it.

True.

And I cannot desire your growth better than you want it. So the person who is really going to grow, the person who is really going to get things done, is the one who wants it so badly. You see, one who who wants it so badly. Um, I think for recent times I've been able to say for the first time that I was born— I wasn't— I wasn't— I wasn't born— I was born dyslexic. Wow. So I couldn't learn. That's just the fact. My result was all-time bad. I couldn't cope. In fact, when they are trying to get me to do things, they laugh and say, you keep saying that I can't do it. I wasn't designed to do this one. I can't. You are just beating me. I cannot do this. There is no wiring for it in me. Let me tell you what changed. One time we're in class, a teacher asked a question, and I was just trying to find myself. Someone called to raise my hand to ask a question. I said a question, I answered the question. You know what the teacher said? He said, Lazarus, you are good facially, but you are bad on paper. Everybody laughed. Oh, he said that? Everybody laughed. And I, I sat down, started thinking about my life.

That's true.

Everything I've tried to do, I've always failed. I will sit down in mathematics class and start saying, who invented mathematics? Who is the idiot who started this rubbish? And all that. But something actually happened after that day. I think for some reasons, when I went back home I still have my old primary school notes. I couldn't tell the difference between B and D. There are many serious stuff— P, B, D, all those things that look similar. I couldn't tell, I couldn't read them. But for some reasons, after that insult that day, I went back home and I said that I'm going to start— I will, I will read more than any other person and I will see I will feel. I want to see how I will feel. And that was what changed. And I just started spending more time, even though sometimes I would just sit there and cry and cry and cry. But I decided that the honor these guys who are brilliant are getting, I want to get it too.

Would you— sorry to cut in— would you describe that change, that moment of change, as maybe an epiphany, maybe a spiritual, um, moment of change, or was it just intuition?

In all honesty, I can't tell. I mean, I just admit to you, I can't tell. Yes, there's an input of God in everything, but what I know as a child that day was that I made up my mind, and that was in JSS 3. And by the end of that JSS 3, I got a scholarship because I became the best. Wow. So I mean, and from that moment onward, I kept on doing Cowbell Mathematics Competition, doing all those stuff. So I really I think for me, I, I don't like to— I don't try to spiritualize everything because people try to use that to escape reality.

Because that's what I was asking, because someone can listen to you now and say, well, you had the eureka spiritual moment and that changed it. I didn't have that.

So I think I was just tired of being embarrassed. I was just tired of being insulted. I was just— you know, one time I met that same guy who insulted— teacher who insulted me, we met somewhere. And he was so excited to meet me. And I was trying to introduce myself that you've taught me before, and he couldn't believe it. Like, no, no, no, no, no, now an elderly person. But he said no, no. I mean, till I have to mention and all those stuffs. And then I recognized him, he didn't recognize me.

Wow, you saw the change that had happened.

Yeah.

So I, I think people need to get to the point where nobody else want your progress better than you want it.

Hmm. Yes. Let's talk about building visions. Now, um, literally everybody will claim they have a vision as a purpose as to why they are living, and many people, or a lot of people, try on the journey of fulfilling that dream, building that vision. One of the major problems, or I would ask this in two ways, there are two major problems that I see. Number one, a lot of people do not know how to start. The second problem is there are people who have started but do not know how to get to that point.

How to scale.

Yes, how to scale. Thank you. So I want you to speak on these two planes. For someone who wants to start, he or she has perceived that, okay, I want to do this, I want to fulfill this vision, but how do I start? What are the things I need to put in place?

You know, I've built brands. Yes, I've built brands. And I have quite a number of brands out there, like, who don't even know I'm the one behind it.

Sure.

So I can— I'm in a place to tell you practically how to, how to, how to start. I, I think the reason people struggle to start, because they've not started many things, or some people also have the culture of starting things and not seeing them through.

Yes.

So when I— this, this is like a billion-dollar secret— when I, when I have a vision in my heart, something I want to do The first thing I do is that I look at it. It is not complex things that get the best attention. It is simple things. First, I will not start until I note, I see that I can start in a way that is easy for me to continue.

Yes.

If everything I need to carry this vision on is not readily available, if it's not within my vicinity, I've not created them, I'll have to beg somebody to struggle this one, struggle that one. It's not a vision to start. But that's not a vision I saw sustainable. So first thing I want to do is to make sure that the habitat, the environment for this to thrive is— and that's the reason why, I mean, I learned management from God. Genesis 1 is my management book, all right? Genesis 2 is my preparation book. Genesis 3 is my conflict management book. The Bible is not just a spiritual book. I, I've not found anything more intellectual, more cerebral than the Bible. Written laws, powerful codes. It, it carries so many things that are so rich we forget them. Look at the way God created the heavens and the earth, um, the way God did these things. And very Environment first before the thing. Environment before the thing. So that's it. You want to get the things that will make what you want to do thrive first, then you start it. And when it comes to striving, um, starting, you don't start with perfection. Everything that is missing in the brand is an opportunity for more money.

Wow.

What is missing in iPhone 13 is your opportunity for iPhone 14.

Yes.

What is missing iPhone 14 is opportunity for iPhone 15. So the people who want to put everything in their brand from the beginning make the brand boring. The brand that gets attention is the one that keeps evolving. So you start, put yourself in the place where you can keep evolving. One of the things you want to also do is to make sure, make sure that you never have a perfect product, a perfect environment. Have something that keeps on growing, you know. So those are the things I look out for. Okay, this, and we start this, and all right, so we're going to equip this. And when we started the class, I wouldn't have this studio. Yes, but now there is this studio, and we're going to have many more studios. Many more things and all those things. The fact that he keeps saying it's evolving is the reason why you are glued to it. So I mean, that's it. So you cannot improve in the vision you have not started.

Start first.

So you need to start before you can talk about improvement. If you have not started, you can talk about it. So what people do is that they keep improving it in their mind till it dies. Just imagine a baby in the womb that just keep growing and evolving You go from first trimester, second trimester, third trimester, and it's not coming out. Something is wrong.

Something is wrong.

So we carry the pregnancy of the vision and then keep nursing and nursing, and it becomes so rich. When the fruits hang on the tree, it ripens.

Yes.

After it ripes, what happened?

It falls to the ground.

It does. Some doesn't fall, they decay right there on them. So people have visions, they are carrying visions that have died on their inside. So now the mind is now a bad place for many visions to thrive. What I'm saying is that, you know, if a woman has a pregnancy, for some reasons, the fetus dies in the womb, the doctors have to quickly either induce pushing it out or they have to evacuate and all those things. If you don't evacuate, it starts rotting in the inside and it can even destroy the womb. Yes. The same way womb was designed to carry babies, the same way the mind is designed to carry visions. The vision, each time you allow visions die inside, there's no way we're going to do evacuation. They are there rotting inside. The mind is trained and taught to see, to— it becomes a bad place for new ideas, a bad place for new visions. Too many things are dead there. That's the reason why people get to the point where their head just can't carry anything, flap gone, and they burn out. No, they just get to the point where you tell them about vision, they say it's not for me.

Let, let me, let me say something to what you said. Um, I think a lot of people find solace in having a vision in their mind and it's staying there. It becomes their comfort zone. You cannot say they are without a vision because they can tell you, they can speak to you about the vision. They have it in their mind, but they never actualize it. And the factors they give, or the reasons they give you for not actualizing it, is that A and B are not in place yet, right? So they say these factors are not together, I don't have this, I don't have this, so I can't start. But the vision is there, and sometimes it sounds beautiful. So for someone who is in that spot where you're speaking with this person, you see this person has a vision, right?

This person what he's saying sounds intelligent, but if you are too intelligent, I'm not going to work with you. I'm not going to work with you. There are people who, when they are talking, they think what impresses— what impresses a doer is not your intelligence, is the doing.

Wow.

I'm a doer. I want to talk to people. See, there are people who have seen this. It's a cultural thing. They enjoy the sound of their voice. They enjoy speaking in a conversation about visions.

Sure.

And they enjoy the fact that the things sound so good.

Good.

Yes, they enjoy bamboozling people with their ideas. Even they don't believe what they're saying.

Is it a psychological problem?

Low self-esteem.

Wow.

Low self-esteem in the sense that there is nothing so much to show. You've got to show talking, not walking.

And I think it's a problem because there are people who don't know when to stop talking. Even having shared the vision, you're okay, let's talk about, let's move on from it. This person cannot just stop talking. Do you think that is psychological also?

Is it sensitivity? There's a principle I know. Always know who you are talking to. That is, if you're going to talk, who is this? You've got to answer the question of who before you start talking. The people who don't know, who just can't stop— like, do you know students in class that when they ask questions, they're always number one to raise up their hand and all this? They sound very smart in class. A new student will feel this is the best in class. The results are out.

Yes, yes.

Sometimes they're not even making it in the first 20.

True.

So there's such a thing as that where people just enjoy saying things and just saying things for the fun of it. The issue is that they've rewired their brain from doing, from, from actions, from results, to thinking and sounding smart.

Yeah.

So now they derive their esteem from the way they sound, not the result they get.

Yes.

So they get satisfied at the point of giving people impression that I'm the best guy around. The only problem is when we want to get job done, you are not the one who get job done with. What you what you're good for is to entertain us with visions that sound smart and we are wowed, but we know when it comes to seeing it is the quiet one. That's why the big guys don't work with the smartest people. They work with people who get job done, and they don't work with people who are— I mean, people who are so smart they can't collaborate. And you also talk about people who also see problem in everything. You see, that gets to a point that the, the brim— the brain, the brain becomes defective. The moment you train your mind to always see negativity, to talk negativity, to see what is not going on, the quality of the brain to analyze and think solutions start depreciating. At that point, the brain becomes sick. So you get to the point where you become a natural pessimist.

Hmm. Yes.

Yeah.

If you're going to set up a team and you're going to have 5 people on your team, what will be the would I put it, the, um, temperament, and then what would be those things you look out for in those 5?

Yeah, I don't really care about the temperament. I just have things I'm going to look out for. Number 1, I need someone who can improvise. There are people that the way the technique they see in paper is all they can do. I need someone who, if that is not available and that's not working, can quickly see everything. I need someone who is creative, somebody who can use anything to get anything done. I need a leader. The leader may not have the talent like the rest, but can manage all of them. You see that now? And I need somebody who is very consistent, somebody who can stay on the work till the work is done. I'm going to share them in different places. I need somebody who can watch their back, who is seeing what nobody's seeing. So I can't— people I want to look out for, they get me results. None of these guys, they talkative. Then I need somebody who can get big results with small spending. Hmm, somebody who can get big results.

I know.

I'm gonna show you something.

The reason why I say I know Apostle Femi Lazarus is from experience.

You see, I get you. When I was getting married, there was a picture I took my wife. I'm gonna put it on the screen. That picture was my wife wearing a gown, flowing gown, at the sea, sunset.

Yes.

Do you know that that picture Behind the scene of that picture, they're making Suga picture, there was no gown. In fact, we're just jizzing the ass and say, well, we need to, we need to, we need to shoot pre-wedding picture. There was no gown, there was no gown. What he did was I just got a white shirt, a white, a white long clothes, tied it around her, blah blah blah blah. Somebody was drawing it. In fact, some— somebody was inside the water, wave of the water in the beach was flowing on them. There was no gown, right there. Another— that's creative thinking. Somebody will have to get me go buy a gown of ₦600,000 because they want to take a picture. Get me the same result with something like— who cares about the gown?

Wow.

Everybody will get things done. Nobody wants to just keep spending money on necessary things. You see that? So at the end of the day, it is not the gadget, it's the mind behind. But gadget is also important. Yes, but it's also the quality of the mind behind all those things. Those are the kind of people I want to have on my set.

I've seen you talk about or talk to people I've seen you counsel people, I've seen you do sessions, and one of the things I've heard you talk about is, um, using yourself as an example. Yeah, there is a— and I know that there is a, there's a time frame with which you sleep. Oh yeah, I mean, there are dedications you give yourself to, there are things you must do before you sleep, there are things you do when you wake up, all of these things. Um, science, however, tells us that there is a time that a person should sleep to be productive.

Yeah.

For example, 8 hours for an adult, I think about 8 hours thereabout.

Who proved that?

Because someone, someone would say, um, someone that wants to motivate you or that wants you to do better, and it's likely what you would say also, you can't be sleeping that long and want to be productive. But science tells you that for you to be productive, you have to sleep that long. Do you think we are living in a simulation? Someone is lying to somebody?

I really don't think the secret of productivity is in terms of how much how long you sleep. I think it's a matter of when you sleep.

You sleep when you are done, not when your body wants to sleep.

You sleep when you're done.

Do you think, um, doctors and—

I think what you should do in terms of— we're talking about this in respect to productivity.

Yes.

For instance, someone told you I should eat 3 times in a day, but you know that was done for actually sell food. I mean, that's the case for another day. Now people know that eating 3 times in a day is the closest way to get to your grave. So the whole 8-hour sleep every day and all that, I mean, it's not scientifically proven anyway. But you should get rest. You should get rest. What is rest? Rest means change your activities. If you have been sleeping too much, rest means start working.

Hmm, I'm just hearing this.

Oh yes, God was the first one who used the word rest. Yes, but that was when he was done. When should you— why should you rest when you are not done?

So you only rest when you're done.

So now, if you know you can't finish this, then reduce the task and inform your mind that this is what I have to do today. Today, finish that one and rest. You are training yourself to be a finisher. Don't set tasks you can't finish, and then you keep abusing your mind. You need to understand that the mind is an entity that can be abused. So I meant the things I do cannot be a recommendation for people. Yeah, because there are things I do that I've learned over time, but the truth of the matter is that when it gets to where it gets to, I shut down. Yeah, that's what, that's what happened.

Yeah, you have a background in the sciences, in health basically. So what I want to ask you has a little to do—

but now I've switched, I've switched. I was going to go into I was going to go into epidemiology, but I've switched. I've switched completely into leadership. Oh wow. I was really good because I just felt that the world we're going in, we're gonna, we're probably gonna be seeing more seasonal pandemics. And I've always had the idea of a research institute. I can just fund it, but I've just switched academically into academic leadership.

So Since you switched, I'll switch also. Then, because this question has been on my mind, I was looking for a way to integrate into our conversation. Yeah, I'm passionate about Africa, and I believe you are too. Everybody knows it's visible to the blind that you are passionate about Africa. If you would— let's use Nigeria as a case study just to narrow down— if you would use Nigeria as a case study, what would you say are the two main problems of Nigeria today?

I think I'll just prefer to address Africa generally because, um, and the reason is because the problems you see in Nigeria, you find similar in Kenya, find similar in Ghana, you find similar in, in Cameroon, you find similar in Côte d'Ivoire, so too, and quite everywhere. Now, something happened, um, and I've seen this in the Black community in America. There's a trauma of what happened during, during slave trade era that has made people predisposed to certain activities and certain things. There's this trauma of that. I think the moment Africa can stop seeing ourselves as a continent of men that have been beaten down, who have to look to people of other race and color and their product as what is original.

Yeah.

And they are thinking as what is supreme. I think something begins to shift about us as a people fundamentally. Again, leadership.

Leadership.

The fact that— and if you, I mean, look at it, history consistent across history, from Julius Nyerere to Patrice Lumumba to Thomas Sankara to some of the most revolutionary leaders we had in Africa all paid a very serious price.

Mhm.

But in most of those cases, you will discover that it is the people of the same color—

yeah—

that are afflicting their own people, only for another generation to come and celebrate the people that their fathers killed. As if, if they were the ones then with this same mentality, they will not do the same. Because even now they are doing the same. There's something about the new generation looking back to the past and seeing that they have murdered their savior. And Africa has learned to always carry the sword on behalf of the white man. So I think the crowd engineering in Africa may produce a— may have created a climate that is not conducive for revolutionary leaders to rise. And it is so because the people are easily manipulated, they are easily engineered, they are easily triggered. So I mean, if you look at what is going on in Iran and US right now and Israel, you'll see that Trump has been saying it, that they were not expecting a battle that is this long.

Yes.

What they wanted to do, initiate regime change, tell the people you've always wanted this.

Yeah.

And all that, set them against their leaders, and then they can come and give them someone who put their own interest first. But that is not happening because for some reasons the Pashans hold their identity. Which African country can survive that? I'm not saying that you're going to have the best of the best leaders. I'm not saying that we have the best of the best leaders. We do have leadership problem. Yes, but you must never hate your country because you have a bad leader.

Never. With the pattern you have stated It is true. We look across history, even recent history, we see that every nation that got plundered got plundered because the external forces were able to turn the people against their leaders. I want to narrow down again.

In many cases too, we must agree that those leaders are weapons fashioned against their people.

Hmm.

I mean, it's just— I mean, you know where you are. Yeah.

Well, to Play devil's advocate to what you said. Some people would argue that it depends on what the angle you're looking at it from. Take for example a person like, um, let's take the man from Libya, um, Gaddafi, right? People would argue that he was a good leader, he was an excellent leader. He was termed to be an autocratic— no, no, no, maybe more like a dictator. So that the Americans can take over, right? So same thing as crowd engineering. The people were set, they were pitted against him. Now, is that your idea?

I'm not— see, I'm not going to give any idea. I'm just, I'm just going to say this. Let's learn from history. How did China come out of their whatever they were in those dark seasons? There was a revolution. But they don't practice the form of government that is easy for anybody to come and influence and give their own sleeper agent to be their leaders. Um, why can America face North Korea today? Because they have a lockdown system. I'm not saying it's the best, same as Russia, but you go and read the story of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew. Yeah, it was benevolent dictatorship.

Dictatorship. Yeah.

And it has— it was so because the people that need the change may not want the change. Most times their culture, their life has been built to benefit from the decadence of what is killing them. They are as corrupt as those ruling them. So you need someone who can deal with both the system and the people. Because sometimes the concern, what you think is that it's just the people or is it just the system, but the system is there because of the people. They share rice during the election because the people take it.

Yes, true.

They share carbon because of the people. So there is the corruption that is at level of the people. The people are the ones that also come into government.

Yes.

And I'm saying this across Africa. Yeah, there's a need for entities or an entity who understand that the problem both the people and the system and benevolently but with strong arms can deal with both.

In your opinion, have we had any benevolent dictator in Africa?

I don't know. In where?

In Africa. Africa?

Yes.

Sankara was not a democratic person, he was a military guy. Yes, we have quite a couple of them. You see, Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, while Kwame Nkrumah was the president, one of the problems they had with him was at some point he needed to extend. That became a problem. Yeah, because there are those also on queue. I think he figured that that time would not be enough for what he needed to do. So one time, in the course of that, they tried to assassinate him. Yes, they put a bomb in a bouquet. A small girl was brought to bring the bomb. Exploded, affected him, but the girl died. When the coup was done and he was removed, because he was removed, yes, you will not believe that the same Kwame Nkrumah today, there was widespread rejoicing in Ghana when he was removed. I think it's quite a dicey thing, but one thing you have to check is that the system of government we currently have in Africa Is it designed to work or it is designed to be infiltrated?

Hmm. And a follow-up question to that will be, do you honestly think that in this age we can have it successfully have a benevolent dictator in Africa?

Never say never.

Do you think it's the answer to our predicament?

We have many problems. But leadership tops it. We do have many problems, really. Our mindset, the fact that we are not transgenerational in thinking as a people. It even affects our business models.

Yeah.

Everybody thinks about me, even in making decisions in business, in planning.

You—

there are some transgenerational businesses.

Yes.

But it's not one of those things you find. It's difficult to find, to go around here and see businesses since 15-something.

Yeah, true, true.

It's, it's, it tells a lot about our culture. It's a culture of all man for himself. So I think what we need to realize is that a generation may fight for it but not see the beauty of it. A generation may begin it. We need to have something that is that can be passed.

Yes.

As what is a continuity. Then another thing is that many countries in Africa are still young. It means it's not so long ago that colonization stopped. The oldest country in terms of freedom should be Ghana, '65. So it's not so long. Is it '67? No, not '50. Ghana took independence from us. So anyways, I might be wrong, please correct me. So it's not so long ago. So it means that the playbook that colonized us are still fresh. So some of the questions Africans really want to ask is, what is really keeping Africa down? Is it just bad leadership, or there is a design for Africa never to rise to a point where they can be a threat?

Hmm.

If we understand those, if we ask those two questions, then you can now begin to rethink. Does Africa really have a friend, or just those who want to benefit from what we have, regardless of the country? Does Africa really have a friend? For instance, if you look at what is going on, Iran, Israel, Strait of Hormuz being closed down. Energy price across the world is shooting up. Think for a moment what happens if Africa shuts down for a month. Think about that for a moment. So the whole world depends on Africa, but they never admit it. Even statistically, it's not just on verbal, it's also on paper.

How important is Africa to the world?

As important as everything can be. I mean, first, don't believe what you read. The media is not designed to inform you, it's designed to engineer you. If you hear that certain percentage of energy comes from so-and-so place, who did the math? Who did the math? Look at this, Zimbabwe Yeah, buy fuel from Iraq. Yes, but Zimbabwe and Angola just beside them. Is it Angola? But won't buy fuel from my neighbor. Which country in Africa has pipeline that runs to sell to another country in Africa using African currency?

They all sell in dollar.

I mean, you go to some African countries, you even pay for rent in dollars. Yes, problem is deep.

So the globalist agenda, and that's the whole globalist mindset that seems to make everything look planned— not everything look planned, in fact, it appears that everything is planned, uh, however, if you take that stand, people will brand you as a conspiracy theorist. Do you believe we are living in a simulation? Do you believe we live in a matrix? What we call a matrix?

You see, I think that we have so lived in a lie that for some people it is best in a lifetime they never find out the truth.

Hmm.

We have so lived in a lie that there's nothing you can do. I mean, I've looked at the case. And I can tell you there's almost nothing you can do. And if you say that sounds pessimistic, I'm going to give you illustration. When the Israelites left Egypt, I mean, this is a historical fact. Yes. God got to the point where it occurred to him that there's nothing he could do about the mind of these people that Pharaoh afflicted this much. They all had to die. The world that we have so lived in a lie that the few truth you, the truth you know are very few. So to bring truth to such a people, let me give you an instance. There's, there's a principle called the principle of institutionalization. Yeah, I think I've explained this a couple of times. You take a man, age 20, committed a crime, lock him in prison, life imprisonment, stays there for 70 years. Now he's 90. His development, his civilization, everything is in the prison. His identity is in prison. His success is in the prison. Yeah. The place that ought to be the place of bondage become the place of his identity. If you pity that man and say, I want to help you, I'll bring you out of prison, you are bringing him out of the life he knows to the life that has moved on without him.

Him.

You have not helped him, you have killed him. He is formed, he is already institutionalized. That is the case of an average human being walking on the street who thinks what he's saying is smart, who thinks the nation he thinks is an angel is an angel, who thinks this and that because the news have formed you from birth till who you are now. There's nothing you can do.

It has defined your reality.

The movies, I mean, we, we think it's just the media that shapes people. Movies are doing a great deal.

Yes.

If I'm going to— if I'm going to spearhead an agenda and I want to see ourselves in certain ways, the government will fund movie makers to give you the stories.

True.

Let me tell you a story. A company, a coffee company, went to China to try to sell coffee. They tried everything they could to sell coffee. They couldn't sell. Got another market strategist came around, studied the market, and saw that the reason why they were not buying coffee— because there's no historical connection to it. They packed up the coffee and began to produce coffee sweets. Left that generation so sweet to the young ones. As those young ones grew, were growing, they reintroduced coffee again. Now there is a connection.

Yes.

To part of your formation. The coffee sold. The movies that engineered you from being children, that wired you, is the reason why anything will pass now. You've been wired from the seasons that you were young. There's nothing they sell to you that they have to go through struggles.

True, true.

It's just the way the system works. To try to get a person out of that, you'll be fought and hated.

Wow.

There's nothing you can do. You just have to have systems that introduced people to it in small groups. It spreads like that. Yeah, but you must understand, majority of those who went through Egypt, who went through Pharaoh, will have to die in the wilderness. There's nothing anybody can do with all the miracles and everything.

Wow, this is so true because I grew up watching Hollywood movies and my idea— if you speak of a Russian, my— the natural idea I have of a Russian is a mafia lord. Is a ruthless stone-cold killer. The idea I had of a Chinese man was probably someone that was born in the— is a monk, killed, he fights, he's a ninja and all that. Those were the perceptions I had about these people.

They inspired about Nigeria—

corruption.

Who acted the movies that showed Nigeria in the bad light?

Nollywood.

Who acted the movies that show America and like, like, like the Heavenly City?

America. Yes.

People sold their stories in good light. We sold our stories in bad light. Who architected what we have now? We ourselves.

So it's not just them, even we.

The reason why Zappa will work was not that they introduced you to it, to it when they say come. You were introduced to this the time you were growing up.

Yes.

It's a business model for me. I can make $100,000 last before I say give me money. Wow, it's simple engineering. Think about it. Wow, this you say is so true. The biggest money is not made from advert, it's made from wiring.

Wow.

Any advert, anytime you have to say get this product, get this product, get this product, you feel that something, hmm, you sell stories, not product.

Yes, yes.

And the The African story has not been sold, not in the light that it should be sold, not in the light that it is investible. I was at Venice, I was at Venice, and I got interested in going to Venice even though I had a program in Padova, which was just an hour train away from Venice. I need to go to Venice because I read the book Merchant of Venice. Yeah, so I, I needed to see Venice. Yes, I mean, I've seen movies like Mother on Orient Express, movies that showed Venice as— and I mean, so I mean, I wanted to get to Venice, and I got to Venice. Sweet place. You see people from different nations. Chinese were there, um, different nations. I mean, I think that's the place I've seen the largest cluster of different nations gathering. But I was surprised when I got to Venice. The first thing I said to myself is, what do they have in Venice that we don't have in Makoko. It's a body of water. We didn't build stories around our own. That's why nobody goes there. We have too much. You can build stories around. We have too much. It's storytelling. I went to, I went to New York. Um, what's this street called? Um, what's this street? Times Square, New York. I got to Times Square. Fantastic. Again, like Venice. People close us all over the world taking stories. I'm taking videos, recording TikTok videos, all those things. What's special about Times Square?

Smelly. Wow.

Screens, they've acted movies there, showed it again and again. Everybody wants to get there. The movie shows you places, you're interested. We have too many things in Nigeria that we don't tell stories about, across Africa. Yes, Victoria Lake, we have all these things things there. Every day, waterfall.

Yes.

What we call our thing is what the world call it. Listen, the greatest marketer in the world is America. What they sell? Stories.

Wow.

We've got to start. I'm— and I'm not saying that things are good. There's pain, there's hunger, there's leadership crisis. What I'm saying, hey, Hey, all these guys don't have it the way we also think. Yeah, I was in, I was in a country, one of those European countries, and for— we're supposed to fly and they said, guess what, they strike. They strike. No plane was flying. We stood there in the lounge trying to— I saw white people sitting on the floor eating food like this on the floor. And I said, all you have to do is to switch their color.

Yeah.

And then this happened in Ibadan, it's going to trend. Look at it, Nigerians, this Nigeria again. See what's happening in Nigeria, in Nigeria for you. I said, but this is happening here. They don't sell those stories, it doesn't encourage investors. I'm not saying things have changed, I'm just saying that we should know how to sell sell ourselves. When we come home, we can deal with ourselves. We are doing outsiders, we sell ourselves well.

The burden of storytelling, does it lie on the individuals or does it lie on the leadership?

I think if I'm a leader and I want to change Nigeria and I want to bring investors, number one, it can't be a 4-year plan. Yes, can't be a 5-year plan. I will pump money specifically into the entertainment industry. Specifically, specifically, that is where our investment, our— to every penny spent, we'll get it back in other folds. Yes, because we are now architecting our place. We're checking our stories and saying that, come around. Let me ask you a question. Do you know that it was until recently before people started seeing Maldives as a place to go to? Yes, because people now be store pictures.

Yeah.

And videos now started going around online. Even now, Zanzibar Yes, in Tanzania. But some 20 years ago, it was not so. Why? As they started architecting their stories, they were now driving home revenues.

Yes, even investors began to come.

Oh yes. So we, in all honesty, security is a major issue because the environment is save for any form of investment if there's no security. Yes, but we've got to be fantastic storytellers. We can't let them destroy our nation and also destroy our identity. We will fight what you are doing. But we tell our stories in a way that what in Nigeria is built on a story. Tell me a state, maybe Lagos. There's the Lagos story.

Eku. Lagos dream.

I recently, I was looking at the works done by Donald Duke in Cross River.

Yes, Ogudu, Ogudu Kato Ranch.

Now it goes down. Yeah, look at the plains, look at the slopes. Yes, look at what that brought. Young carrying themselves.

Yes.

But anyways, there's nothing you're going to go and do there if you won't come back home. If the next day they will see you on screen saying ransom—

my God.

But we need to get security right, but we need to tell our stories ourselves.

True, true. You work with young people from all over Africa, from all over the world, but I know it because I'm very keen on Africa.

Yes, yeah, yes.

What would you you say is the one ingredient that the African youth need? Now I'm speaking to a demography— the youth, the young population needs to have if Africa is going to ever have stand any chance in the, in the years to come.

Independent knowledge. Independent knowledge. No-brainer. Not knowledge from CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera. Nope. Independent knowledge. Independent knowledge of history.

But the history books are there, written by a kind of people.

Those who took your past from you can't tell you how we went. They shouldn't be the ones to tell everyone. Independent. We need to— I, I will not read a book if I've not read the author. Yeah, because he who pays the piper dictates the tune. So if— I mean, I, I, I, I, there There are books I buy and I laugh just to see the kind of lies they've told here, because I know it's all lies. So the people who have been raised on lies told to us, even lies told to you by your own leaders— in your lifetime, the worst villain can be your greatest hero because someone told you this way, and your greatest hero can be the worst villain. I said this is the math. Your leader that the West celebrate, watch. The one they demonize, watch.

Wow.

Those who want you down can't tell you who is the best. That's an opinion.

Let's talk about Pan-Africanism. There's been clamor for things like the free trade zone. You know, people have clamored that Africa should be visa-free from one Africa country to the other. Um, there are literal reasons why at this point it's not feasible, right? There are concerns that certain regions have about other people. I'll give you a classical example. There's been recent xenophobic activities violence against people from other parts of Africa and all of that. And when you ask these people, they have legitimate reasons or legitimate concerns. For example, you hear them say things like Nigerians come over there, or people from other countries come over there and are the drug lords, are the ones pushing. So the concept of Pan-Africanism in itself, with all of these many differences that we have, is it a realistic vision?

What you do if the head is sick, you don't cut it off, you treat it, you regulate. There's a way it can be visa-free and yet the best of the best are the ones entering. You regulate. I think it's all about our will, not the fact that it is impossible. Africa is a continent of very smart people. So, and I mean, it's tough what you're saying because if a region is destabilized, you can almost— everybody just influx into another region because of this and all that. But we can regulate. For instance, your universities, um, you don't apply for any visa to get into school. Yeah, the cutoff is a regulation. Yeah, visa-free, but you must have this, have that, have parameters I should work in, this, that, and all that. And then that solves the problem.

Wow, thank you so much. It's, it's been an amazing conversation. Um, I hope we get to have this more often because, um, there are a lot I would love to pick from the wealth of wisdom that you carry and that you dispense. Thank you so much for being on.

Please declassify.

Thank you.