HOW WE ARE ALL CONTRIBUTING TO THE LACK OF INTELLIGENCE IN THE SOCIETY

It's been predicted that Africa in the next, I think in 2050, will take 80% of the workforce population and all of that.

There was a time I was excited about that statistics. Now I'm no longer excited because I have seen how that even in things that looks advantageous to us or for us, we don't prepare.

Now let me shock you. Yes, I, I'll take you back to history.

You have data? Okay, go ahead. Dr. Opeyemi Ogunyomi, a.k.a.

Onkwopwe. The educational psychologist and professor at Canadian Mennonite University who is on a mission to make sure no young person falls through the cracks of the education system.

When you look at Africa and you look at the interests of the people, what are the things that you believe will need to change in terms of intellectual participation and contribution to have the kind of environment that we really desire? Why do you think intelligent things don't go far? Do you think we can ever truly have an environment that we now have more intelligent people than the non-intelligent ones? And if possible, how can we get there?

Honestly, there's no hope. Have you studied the Constitution of Nigeria? That document, yes, predicts the outcome of the country at any time.

Oh, definitely, yeah. As long as we maintain that, and I don't think people know about it, there are certain things that can never happen. Good.

Yeah. So with that, no one. Number 2, do you see how our politicians treat us? These are people who drive the policy such that if you as an intelligent person is invited on board, you'll be frustrated.

The system will—

the system will frustrate you because again, some people are benefiting from the decadence in the system. However, if we can have a reorientation, which is tough because the people benefiting from the decadence are not ready to stop—

you feel the system frustrates some, makes it intentionally difficult to—

it makes it intentionally difficult.

However, you right now, you are a university lecturer, you are a professor at this age. Do you think it would have been possible for you to achieve this in your own country?

I didn't see that coming. Capital N-O.

Hey guys, If you're watching this now, that means you have ears for intelligent conversations and this is exactly where you want to be. We have conversations that will get you at the edge of your seat, and this particular one is one you don't want to miss. I have a very honest request from you as we start this conversation. I'd like for you to like this broadcast. That helps us to get this to as many people as possible. You know, we can work together getting intelligent conversations to people all over the world. And I'd like you to drop your comment. Let us know how you feel. Let's know how this has impacted you. And one thing you want to do also is to subscribe to this YouTube channel, as this will notify you whenever we're bringing up videos, um, podcasts, or any other kind of video that can be a blessing to your heart. I look forward to having you again and again on this show. Thank you so much. What we're about to have today is a very serious conversation, and I know how important this is to you, particularly when you are part of those who have been in places where you see systems that are working. And from those who are looking from afar, it looks like the system is working because of the from one person. You know, um, what we have in this part of the world is an expectation from one person. But you have been in systems that are working because the people collectively contribute to the system working, and the intellectual contribution of the people to make systems work. Now let's bring this home. When you look at Africa— and I want to make this about Africa— and you look at um, we can narrow down and look at places like Nigeria, okay? And you look at the interests of the people, but we narrow it down again and start looking at the young minds. What are the things that you believe will need to change in terms of intellectual participation and contribution to have the kind of environment that we really desire?

Wow, that's a very, um, juicy question in that you can analyze it from different lenses. But like I was telling you prior to, um, the interview, um, people make environment, environments make people. True, right? And there's also something we call curriculum. Yeah, how that's a series of learning that produce certain outcome. Now this curriculum can be deliberate, can be indeliberate. You may not have to be conscious about it, but something is driving you. Definitely. So when you look at Africa as a whole, now taking Nigeria as a case study, you will see how that, number one, we're sort of anti-intellectual as a society.

Ah, is that so?

Yeah, we don't reward intellectual property. Yeah, one, we don't reward intellect, we don't reward intelligence. And I'll give you a series of examples, a case in point. Um, there's this show, I don't want to mention their name, where they put adults in a house and at the end of the day the winner goes—

they have it across Africa.

Yeah, across Africa. Now Interestingly, it didn't start with Africa, I guess. Um, yeah, they have other versions, but the energy at which it's had in Nigeria or in Africa is more intense than—

no, you can mention Nigeria.

The energy is more intense.

People even—

people develop rivalry.

Yes, that doesn't end, doesn't make sense because of fascination for a and housemate.

And guess what? Because intelligence is not about degree. Ah, because we must first, before we unpack that, we need to actually look at what intelligence is. Intelligence is not you having a PhD. Intelligence is not you speaking eloquently. Anybody can speak good English or speak big grammar. It's not about that. Intelligence is how you are able to learn quickly from your previous mistake. Intelligence is about how you are able to solve problems, how you are able to think critically.

Yes.

Intelligence is about how you are able to apply knowledge to solve issues, relevant, relevant issues, right? So when you look at it, because scholars will give you different definition, but just looking at it in the context of our, you know, discussion, yeah, you will see how that it is tough for us in society to engage in this construct that I've described. That is one. And it's also difficult for us to reward these things. The best graduates in— ah, university, for instance, in Nigeria, what do we reward them with? But I can go on TikTok right now and do something funny, and I'm the celebrity. Now, we don't know the implication. There's something called modeling. There's the— an experiment was done by Albert Bandura. He calls it baby doll experiment. So he packed some children to observe an adult beating a doll. So they left the children with the baby doll and they repeated what the adults did. That's part of where social cognitive theory came from, how that we learn from our environment. That's the concept of modeling.

Yeah.

So if I want to bring it back home, a child that grows up never to see an airplane will never dream of becoming a pilot. Ah, your dreams, your aspirations, your— yeah, whatever it is, it's as a result of the things you're exposed to.

You're not permitted to imagine what you've not seen. Yeah.

And it happened. So they brought, they brought a young girl to, to stay with us some years ago from one village in Oyo State. She has never seen that. That was when I came up with that. She has never seen an airplane before. So she saw, and her house is not that far from the airport, so she saw plane flying and she said in very local Yoruba language, she was like, "Moto lon foun," like, "A car is flying." Wow, that's not a car. That child, if you ask her, "What are you going to become?" She can never mention pilot. Yeah, because it is not in our context.

Yeah.

Do you see how environment shapes you as a person?

And this is— this, this brings me to the next thing. Now I'm beginning to see the danger. Now this is beyond school walls. Yeah. Of the things that catches our interest. You know, algorithm system on social media works with interest.

Yeah.

If many people who claim to be intelligent identify with foolish things, foolish things will trend.

Of course.

So I'm looking at the implication of those that are called the celebrities now.

Who gave them the title?

The people celebrating them.

Because It's cheap for you to work on impulse. That's another thing about intelligence. You don't make decisions based on impulse. You make, you make decisions based on evidence.

Yeah.

So you're not riding on emotions. Your decision is not predicated on— in fact, when you look at developmental psychology, for instance, and you look at the adolescent brain, the part of the brain responsible for develop, um, for decision making is not fully developed. So that is why adolescent make decision based on their emotions, which is not smart, which is not intelligent. So today they think like an adult, tomorrow they think like a baby, and all of those things. That is a picture of what our society is like. So people, you bring out an intellectual discourse, you will see how emotional our people are in their ways of thinking. To critically move back and read in between the lines. As simple as sarcasm is, yes, people cannot— people can't get sarcasm.

And to, to further break this down, we're not just talking about intelligence in terms of mental prowess. Yes, because you cannot say a fellow is intelligent if the fellow doesn't also have the combination of emotional intelligence. Of course, it's part of it, which is, which is what you're going to see in the way they analyze, the way they respond. One of the ways you know someone who is not smart is that they are quick to dismiss others. That's impulse. Yes, in the areas where they feel they have an edge. When you look at our society and you look at the things that are celebrated compared to where we claim to be going, are you concerned?

I'm concerned. I'm concerned in that, um, we are already modeling a wrong pattern for the next generation because they can't do beyond what they see.

They cannot.

And there's the principle of reinforcement. What you reward, you reinforce.

Yes.

So if you reward foolishness, people are going to be foolish.

And one of the ways to reward foolishness is by paying attention to it.

Yeah, so you give it your attention. In fact, that's part of the elements of modeling. I can't take you as a model if I don't give you some sort of attention. So it starts with attention to retention, um, before I act it out.

So the people who give attention to foolish things can't claim they want a better society?

No, they can't. And that is why I started by saying you may not be conscious of it, but you are part of it. That's the crazy thing about what we call— although in— we look at it from the lens of school, but it's life.

No, it's life.

So curriculum is you going through certain things, certain training, certain information, you digesting.

That brings a predictable—

that brings a pre—

it's—

you can predict it at any time. See, if you do this, you're going to get this.

Could it be that we actually We don't really want an intellectual society because if we are foolish, there will be no space for us in that society.

So we wish we have one, but we are not taking necessary steps towards— now don't get me wrong, Nigerians are intelligent in a way.

I'm talking about Africans generally.

I'll start with Nigeria. Okay, then I'll pivot to Africa.

Yeah.

And the reason why I want to start with Nigeria is because I do a lot of things within Nigerian communities, um, from Nigeria to the US. Um, when I was doing my PhD in the US, I was the president of Nigerian Student Association for 2, 3 years thereabouts. Then right now in Canada, I'm the youth coordinator of Nigerian Professionals in Manitoba, right? And this is me not even spending a year already. Yeah. So I, I interact with our people on a daily. We have this individual intelligence that we do, and when we leave the shores of Africa or Nigeria, you see people bring out that, their individualistic prowess intelligently. Yeah, right.

But as a people, as a community, we've been conditioned in a way.

Do you know that If you compare— now let me start with comparison. If I compare Nigerian community or African community with an Asian community, they are ways ahead of us.

They are way ahead of us.

They don't lose their identity. That's part of it. Yeah. They would rather— when they see— if I do— I may not know you in India, but as long as I know that you're an Indian person, you're my brother.

Yeah.

So we work together to achieve a common— that's intelligence right there. And that's why those guys are doing great stuff. If you want to talk about Nigerians in diaspora, you just mentioned this individual, but as a group, what are we— what is our report card like?

I have an analysis around this, and, um, it's part of the curriculum for public school.

Good.

One of the reasons why we don't tend to thrive as a community, as a community, um, I, I think it is Still part of the effect of the distrust that comes from lack. Yeah, once you are open— when you grow up in an environment where there is lack, one of the things you are going to observe is that you are wired not to trust anybody and survive alone. If you come from a place where there is legacy of transgenerational wealth and abundance, you are trusted to leverage on relationship. So Once you come from a place where there is lack and you begin to have an edge, the next thing is that there is a tendency to suspect everyone as those who want your downfall. And that's why we don't collaborate. It's part of the reason.

You just described what we call the triadic reciprocity, how that your environment determines your behavior, determines your personal factors. So you're raised in an environment of lack.

Yes.

It affects your esteem, it affects your confidence. Because if, if I have a good self-esteem, you're not a competition to me. I'm good. Yeah, I don't attach my identity to what I have or what I don't have. I'm comfortable in myself.

And that's why the first thing a rich man with a poor mind wants to do is vengeance.

Yeah, vengeance.

To show to everyone who has once flaunted wealth and displayed it that I'm not at your level.

That's why our society is a society of classicism. Someone who stays on the island is seeing someone who stays on the mainland as, oh, you're lower class. I shared a story with you earlier today, how that, you know, we did an event and you know me, I'm a very jovial person. And, um, I was out— I should be inside because I'm part of the organizers, but I love to serve in that capacity. I mean, that's, that's what I represent. And I was just doing the dirty job myself you know, marketing some tickets. It's just $10 to get all of those things. And you know, one man stepped in and he just, you know, when somebody just looked at you from top to bottom and was like, okay. So he gave us the money as if, oh, we are begging, something like that. And someone just mentioned my name, hey, Dr. Femi Lazarus. So he was on his way out, so he quickly, he did a Google search on my name. He ran back and was like, ah, Doctor, I never knew you're a professor, blah blah blah blah blah. Are you young man? You're a professor? Oh, so he gave me his number, introduced himself.

In my mind, I'm like, we don't respect people till we see what is attached to them.

Do you see that? And other societies are not like that. Even if they don't respect you, you won't see it. They won't display it.

Yeah, very—

that is intelligence right there.

And we, we call it pretense.

We call it— what it is, intelligence. Their light can mentor darkness. Yeah. Now this is me, I'm trying to bring a lot of, uh, constructs in this conversation. So let me use the Christian community now. You guys say you are the light of the world. But the moment you see what you should impact, you are threatened by it. You can't mentor darkness. So you don't even know who you are. You've heard who you are, but you don't know what it entails. Okay, what does it mean to be light?

Wow.

Because the moment you know that, then you can function in that capacity. Wow. Right.

Why do you think that happened?

Number 1, um, certain people are thriving on our ignorance. Wow. Ignorance is a lucrative business.

It is, it is.

And you've shared a lot about it, you know, in some of your teachings and all that. And you know, entertainment— what's the origin of entertainment? Something serious is is going on in the background.

Bread and cycles.

Let's distract the people. Yeah, right. So the people are doing something wrong zealously, passionately. I'll give you a case in point. Now they will come for me for saying this. Arsenal won the Premier League. Yeah, Arsenal is an England team.

Yeah.

Did you see the jubilations in African countries? I saw some videos in Kenya. In fact, some people wore Arsenal jersey to do Thanksgiving in church.

Wow.

Again, if you are not intelligent, you, you quickly want to type right now, but just as you're typing, that's not a smart move.

When you see that, what comes to your mind?

I just see the principles of psychology. The play itself, and I'm like, wow, human mind is, is powerful. We don't know. It's conditioning a lot. In fact, some people who are wearing the jersey may not even be Arsenal fans, but because that is what they see in their environment, again, I just want to join.

So there is a thing as people feeling a sense of importance. Yeah, by joining what they feel, what they feel is trending.

Because they can't see beyond their nose. Intelligence will make you pull back and analyze the situation. So what's going on? Because again, there's a difference between what is happening and what is going on. Wow. That's why Yoruba people say what is behind 7, uh, what is behind 6 is more than 7. 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, till infinity, right? So when you're Intelligence, you don't just jump into trends, you don't just follow the bandwagon, you, you think critically. And you have the ability as a human to use— you have a brain, use it. But it's, again, it's tough because it takes a level of diligence, a level of patience to step back Yeah, it is tough to not be a Tetris game. You know what Tetris game is? The brick game. You know, when it fits in, it disappears. Yeah, it's tough to actually stand out. Wow. Intelligence is what makes you stand out. You don't reason like the normal person, you don't talk like the normal person, you're sort of different. But that is how we should be individually because we are unique. Our DNA combinations is different. So we should bring out these differences in how we think, in how we approach things, you know. And it is that concept of diversity that brings out beauty and intelligence. Even nature teaches us to be intelligent.

Wow, diversity, diversity. Yeah, but it's easy to fit in if I'm able to analyze what you're saying. Properly. Um, you're looking at having an intellectual environment beyond the walls of the school.

Yeah.

Um, in our day-to-day conversation.

Yeah.

And there's also an aspect I want to highlight, and that's our interest. A foolish person will be interested in foolish things.

Of course.

An intelligent person will be interested in intelligent things. If we look at the algorithm around intelligent position compared to things that makes no intellectual sense, doesn't contribute really to the development of our society. Yeah, the development of the human mind and help the next generation to think better and have better demands. Let's, let's highlight the area of interest.

Good.

Why do you think intelligent things don't go far?

Number one, you look at the reward associated with it. I did an experiment, not like a formal experiment, in, um, if I'm not mistaken, around 2017-ish. Yeah, you know, I was asking a group of students, so what do you want to become in the future? Wow. You know, so a young boy, he said it passionately, he said he wants to be like— so he mentioned the name of the brother, his name is Rashidi— that I want to be like our brother Rashidi. He said it in Yoruba. I said, why? He said he has 2 tricycles and he has 4 wives and he's a young man and he wears designers. He said, ah, then they call me Uncle Kwe. Ah, Uncle Kwe, ah, don't you know him? I said, I do. I was amazed. There was a video that also trended that a teacher was asking the students in the class, what do you want to become? One says you want to become a tailor, vulcanizer. Now this is not to say in some advanced these countries, man, your, your, and your vocational aptitudes are, man, those guys are cashing out.

We know what it is here, but we know what it is here.

So, but based on the environment, that was scary for a child to say, this is what I want to become, vocalizer. Again, what sparked that interest? It's environment. Wow. That is what— that is the only thing he sees. In fact, it was when I did that experiment, I made it a Call of Duty that every teenager I was working with back then in Agege, I always take them out of Agege. So we go to Ikeja, we go— you'll be shocked that when I was doing that, that was the first time some children will leave Agege for the first time to go to the island. I remember one occasion we were in the bus and a girl was crying. She was like, that's the airport! What is Ikeja to Agege? It's not that far. And she was like, that's the airport!

Wow.

She said the only time she sees airport is in the TV. Then we got to Third Milan Bridge, and she was, she was shaking. She was just thanking me. Thank you.

Wow.

Thank you. Now that sparked the major interest in her not to settle for less, to go for the best and all of those exposure. In fact, exposure is a form of education too, right? You see beyond your immediate world.

Yeah.

You see beyond what is obtainable around your environment. It, then your thirst for more has been triggered.

Wow.

So you see, I'm, I'm predicating it on environment now because environment is like the starting point. Yeah, actually, if you're born to, um, a family where, like you said, they understand prosperity or abundance, or they are well exposed and all of those things, yeah, that's, that's a leverage already there.

It is.

Now it is now left to you. That's where personal factors now come. Will you leverage on that environment?

Yeah.

Or will you abuse it? Now that's another conversation. But look at our society. What do we actually reward? Wow. So, uh, look at your teachers. In your primary school, in your secondary school. These are people who invest, who transfer knowledge. People think teachers are just the way we even view them. These are, these are people who mold ideologies. Yeah, these are people who mold ideologies. These are people who affect the lives of people. If a teacher says you're not going to do well, you will struggle with that statement I know people who are dealing with identity issues because of what the teacher says to them.

Yeah.

So, but pay attention to them. How do they dress? How do they look like in our public schools? Have you been to our public schools before? Have you seen their offices? I don't want to be like that. But have you seen Pablo on your street? He has a Benz. He attracts the finest girls on the streets. He has money. That's cool.

There's a concept about societal stratification. Yeah, that nobody will ever be rewarded in a strata in such a way that will take them out of the strata.

Yeah, so that the person at the top of the strata remains there. Again, the person at the top of that strata might think he's intelligent But it's not true because our society— when the society is better—

don't forget that the height of this, if we go to the issue of nations now, it's just the way you say our developed nations keep Africa in their strata, third world we call it.

And it's, it's going to bounce back.

What will bounce back?

Okay, I'll give you a case in point. When the first xenophobic attack happened, the issue was in South Africa. Yeah, I remember Sakum Mall in Lekki was raided. Yeah, that's Lekki. Who raided all those malls? Who raided those malls back then?

Our people.

Our people. Lekki seems to be where the rich are staying. Oh, it's like it's untouchable, right? But again, in every environment there are slums that makes the, the workforce of the palace is powered by the slum. Do you understand? Now when push comes to shove, those guys in the slum attacked the rich. I remember that for, for like a year or two that mall didn't open. It didn't recover from that experience.

Wow.

So if the developed country keep ravaging third world countries. A time— population is already showing because it's been suggested or it's been predicted that Africa in the next, I think in 2050, um, we take 80% of the workforce population and all of that.

See, because while I get what you're saying I mean, there was a time I was excited about that statistics.

But you're no longer excited?

Now I'm no longer excited because I have seen how that even in things that looks advantageous to us or for us, we don't prepare.

Now let me shock you. Yes, I'll take you back to history.

You have data? Okay, go ahead, history.

Algebra, where did it start from?

Well, Africa, argumentatively.

Egypt.

Egypt, yeah.

Knowledge. We, we have our own form of education, right? We had those things. We had our civilization.

Yeah.

Now they came again with their agenda, and they were able to— man, it was brilliant.

Definitely.

Now, looking at it back then, you will say Africa was intelligent, Africa was developed in their way, because that is where knowledge originated from. They had their things working out for them.

You know, these, these are tough conversations.

Yeah, their things working out for them. Again, when a thief wants to steal something from you, one of the strategies will make you— that he can use is is to deceive you, not to pay attention to that, and to distract you. Pickpocket, pickpocketers, for instance, right? Because he knows that what you have is good. You may not value it. That's the issue we have originally when certain things come to you naturally. You don't know, you know, I always tell you about it. Yeah, when you do something naturally, you don't know the gravity of it. Yeah, and you have the tendency of not appreciating it. True. Someone who does not have knows what you have, and if he wants to get it, he would do anything to get it, including manipulating you to make you think what you have is nothing.

Are you saying that's what happened to Africa?

Yeah, I'll give you an example. I was looking at the map and I was looking at Africa. I cried at some point in the plane. How that you have natural resources You are blessed naturally, but because you are— they've made you feel over time, you've been conditioned to think you don't have anything up here. They've ravaged what you have on your inside. It's a picture of a beautiful girl. You're beautiful, but you have nothing here. I'm sorry to use that. They will ravage— you have to Give what you, you know, give out what you have to get what you want instead of—

let me tell you the way they say that when a girl is fine and she has no sense, the private part suffers.

Yeah, so that's it. You said it. I didn't say it, he said it.

Vice versa, a guy too is the same.

So the same thing applicable to Africa. Yeah, loaded with resources. Check the developed country, they don't have these things that we do. They come here, we do the rigor of bringing those things out, we export it to them, they refine. Again, when you refine, it takes intelligence to refine some things, and when you refine something, you've increased the value, right? You are celebrating the crude resource you have. I mean, what does that mean in, in, in grand scheme of things? So the refined one has higher value, then they sell it back to you. Because again, they've convinced you successfully. You've been conditioned by the educational system. You've been conditioned by different things. You see them as higher and you as lower. If a white man says something and a black man says something, naturally black man will feel, oh, the white man is correct. Let me give you, let me give you this one real life example. The president of— when, um, I'll mention his name, President Trump, when he won the election in the US, you know, Nigerians went, man, they were excited. And somebody put it on his status, he says, I am inspired by President Trump, you know, winning the election. Then I asked him a question, but Buhari contested for election 5 times. Isn't that inspiring? He said, nah, don't talk about it. I said, think. Do you think it's easy to contest for election several times in Nigeria and you win? Isn't that inspiring?

I beg to differ.

You beg to differ?

Um, maybe I have problem.

Maybe I have problems. But because in the sense that— because the reason why he found it inspiring was because of the struggle Trump went through to get there.

Sometimes we find it the way we find it because the motivation behind it, at the end of the day, in this part of the world, there's something I want to point your attention to when it comes to what you said about the Western world being able to project opinions on us and we don't know the value of what we have. Yeah, which is very true. If you have been to different African countries, and now that I'm even living in Kenya, you'll be amazed. I enter Uber and the song you're hearing is a Nigerian song.

Hmm.

Comes to the hip-hop now. You go to a salon, you're hearing the Nigerian sound. Hmm. Yoruba. Hip-hop, Igbo hip-hop. You're wondering what's going on. You go to some public places and you're amazed that this is a Nigerian sound. So across Africa, Nigeria has been able to create an impression, which is a beautiful one, that We are at the top of this game, you know. In fact, you— I, I once asked about an African country, who are the top guys here? They mentioned— I've never heard any of the names. Well, you, you ask 1, 2, 3 names about Nigeria. So you see this in entertainment, then you also see this in terms of the fit. Yeah, Nigerian ministers. So you notice that despite what we about there. An average person in all of those places want to have an experience of what it means to come to Nigeria. What does Lagos look like? They ask you, what does Abuja look like? Say, I heard of this place, um, Port Harcourt, and yeah, what does it look like? Where are they hearing of all those places? In movies.

Should I tell you?

Yes.

One of the things that inspired that, individually we have it.

Individually.

Individually. We've not been able to put it together as a community, as a society. It's tough. Even in diaspora, it's tough. We don't even trust ourselves.

True.

Now when you now bring it back home to Nigeria itself, like I said, some people are thriving on our ignorance. So they've put in structures, systems curriculum and all of those things to ensure that we don't bring— you're frustrated. It seems when you are intelligent, you're foolish.

The environment is wired that way.

So an intelligent person is a foolish person, a foolish person is a smart person because of the environment. Because of the environment. So we need to be conscious of that We know that, oh, this is our environment. We need to move from talking about it to now deliberately— and that's one thing I represent. When I was— I went to a public secondary school, I saw— now I would use that as any, because that's one motivational factor for me. And I told myself, I will never look beggarly as an educator. You look at me and you think, oh, to be a teacher is, is good.

And I can say that about you.

You know, I may not have a dime in my account, but I'll never— because my identity is not tied to material things.

Yeah.

So we need to first of all reorientate ourselves, because they've conditioned us to, um, tie who we are, our esteem, our worth, to what you have.

Yes.

So we need to first change that narrative. It's not about what you have on the external, it's about who you are.

Person went.

Because this is what these guys did. They don't even have the resources, but they just believe that they are the best. The mind, it starts from the mind. They just believe they are the best. They just believe they are smart. They believe they have it. Yeah, I listened to an audio of a former president of the US claiming that black people can't run things for themselves. Do you know how strong that is? That's an ideology right there. So he believes that if he's in a room with black people. They can't run things, he can run it. And guess what? He may not be able to run things, but he knows how to conjure what you have, conjure what you have, bring it together, and you guys produce it. And that's who a leader is. Wow, that's intelligence right there.

So based by— from what you're saying, what we identify with, what we celebrate what we pay attention to and what we reward, what we reward generally contributes to what will be mirrored to the next generation and what their outcome will be.

Yeah, because again, think about conditioning, think about— and hey, this thing is deep in the sense that You learn from what you learn from your experience. You learn from what you're exposed to again. And when you have learned something, it forms your mindset, it forms your belief system. When a new information now comes that does not fit into your prior belief, yeah, then there's a cognitive dissonance. Right there.

Yeah.

And that is why they drag on Twitter. Do you— have you discovered that our X space in Nigeria is more toxic than anywhere else?

Is it more toxic than anywhere else?

Yeah, the different countries are— of course you always have funny people everywhere.

You know, one time I, I went on a platform of another country. Somebody has said something that nobody agreed with, and I was amazed as I went through the comment section.

You saw how they took it?

They took it and were saying what is wrong. Well analyzed, no emotions, no bashing on the person. Ah, are you saying that the toxicity of our social media space is not a sign of intelligence?

Yeah, it's foolishness at its peak.

Wow.

Yeah, we're just displaying— because again, a foolish man does not know he's foolish. So he displays his foolishness with pride, particularly when there are many. Then again, who can tell a proud man that he's proud? So it's a very— that's why I said when you study the human behavior, it's very complex. And that's what I do as a profession. As a psychologist, you study human behavior every day. Very complex.

In fact, so much so that God himself says, you know what I noticed about your saying In every video, the only part people fight are the 2-minute, 1-minute part. If something worse is inside a long one, it will never come out.

Do you now know the funniest thing? I did that. I love to experiment. So someone dragged you for a short video online.

Okay.

Then he did the greatest mistake of his life. To send it to me. Number one, he had the history of his life anyways. Then I asked him, I said, you're educated, have you watched the full video? So he went to watch the full video. Now the coin now flipped. He was making a statement, someone just picked the statement out of context. And, you know, painted it wrong the way they want to do it. And he was pissed. He was— he called me. It was— I see this nonsense. I said, oh, really?

Really?

But you did the same thing some weeks ago, man. So intelligence will make you think deeply because you now begin to reflect. So you don't attack Look at even parenting. It's reflecting how we parent here too. How do we correct children? You don't connect and you expect that child to accept your correction. That is why. So you attack the child instead of correcting the act.

Wow.

Then you are now wondering why do you have repulsive children in the house.

You're saying that's one of the reasons?

Yeah. And again, an intelligent person may act foolishly sometimes. Now let me bring the balance. Yeah, but the ability for him to learn from that experience is what makes him intelligent. And that's where we can even bring out the concept of fixed mindset and growth mindset from. Fixed mindset is, oh, I'll put it in academic term, you failed an exam and you said, oh, Mathematics is not for me, or the teacher hates me, so I will not put effort, yeah, in developing myself in that area. But if I say, oh, I didn't do well in this subject because I did not prepare well for it, I'm going to prepare for it, that's the person who's going to grow. That is growth mindset right there. Now guess what an unintelligent person would do when they see new information coming their way because they cannot assimilate. So I'm using psychological terms now.

Wow.

So assimilation is the new knowledge fits into your prior knowledge.

Yeah.

So there's no, there's no dissonance there. It settles. Okay. So a child who sees a dog, it has 4 legs and a tail. Oh, this is a dog. This is a goat. Calls a goat a dog because it has 4 legs and a tail. Hmm, that's assimilation.

Hmm, hmm.

So assimilation does not change you, accommodation changes you. Because what accommodation does is this information is anti-my prior knowledge, now I need to upgrade my thinking. Wow. So that this information now fits into—

and that's rare.

That's rare. That's tough. Okay, that's tough. So I now know that, oh, dogs bark, goats don't.

Yeah.

So this is a dog, this is a goat.

Wow. Do you think we can ever, particularly in this part of the world, truly have an environment that we now have more intelligent intelligent people than the non-intelligent ones? And if possible, how can we get there?

Honestly, honestly, there's no hope. But in your part of the world where you live, this is not like this. I'm heading somewhere. Yeah. When you look at what Have you studied the Constitution of Nigeria?

To an extent, yes.

To an extent, yes. That document, yes, predicts the outcome of the country at any time.

Oh, definitely. As long as we maintain that, and I don't think people know about it, there are certain things that can never happen. Good. Yeah.

So with that, no one. Number 2, do you see how our politicians treat us. These are people who drive the policy such that if you as an intelligent person is invited on board, you'll be frustrated.

The system will frustrate you.

The system will frustrate you because again, some people are benefiting from the, the, the, the decadence in the system.

Yeah.

However, If we can have a reorientation, which is tough because the people benefiting from the decadence are not ready to stop. In fact, they are doing the modeling perfectly.

Wow.

Oh, they are more structured. There's a transference project, there's a mentorship project that they have.

Yeah.

So They have plans. Yeah, but the intelligent folks, because they operate on an individual basis, you've not been able to come out. And I will give you a very horrible picture now. My wife says not never to use that example, so please, um, about— I'll use it so you get the point. If I'm walking in a lonely path and I see a snake, I can kill it. But imagine going through a path at night and you see 100 snakes. You run away.

You run.

Check the turnout of election that is coming out. You see that compared to 250 million population, maybe you just have like maybe 10 million or 12 million, or let's say 20 million people voting. That's another report card right there.

You feel the system frustrates some, makes it intentionally difficult to—

it makes it intentionally difficult. However, When we as a people begin to now understand that I have this innately, it's in me, then we now start collaborating. And as we are collaborating, we are spreading the mindset. And again, as we are doing that, we are also modeling it to next generation. Yeah, that is when I can see you. But right now, as it stands, no. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, honestly. Now, this is my own personal opinion. Yeah, so I, I— you can, you can easily predict things when you understand the concept of garbage in, garbage out. Again, it is an unintelligent person that wish to get an outcome you did not prepare for. So that is why— have you noticed that miracles sells more in this part of the world than any other place?

Because miracle doesn't involve your intellect. Yeah.

Now this is not me saying miracles don't— miracles happen.

Oh yes, miracles happen.

It happens everywhere. Yes, but in those developed places, they see it as, oh, it's, it's a backup plan. It shouldn't be. This is not how it is meant to be.

Miracle is not a strategy.

It's not a strategy.

Miracle is a sign something had gone wrong, there is a higher authority trying to fix it.

Good.

We need principles so that nothing goes wrong.

And when you check the way nature was made, life is meant to be governed by principles. How do we have all these laws in science? These are things that are already existing. So individuals, you know, reflected and observed observed and say, oh, there's a relationship between this and this. There's a relationship between force, mass, and acceleration due to gravity. There's a reason why I'm sitting on this chair and I'm not floating. It's because I have some sort of weight, downward weight, and there's an acceleration due to gravity that keeps me intact.

Yeah.

So we have force equals mass times— it is not invented, it is discovered from observed, by observing, by observing nature. So nature teaches us all these things, but again, it takes an intelligent mind to observe too.

You know, my biggest concern, if we are going to change things, we need to look at the distraction of the people.

And guess what? It's an old-time strategy.

The people keeping things the way they want things to be know how to sponsor a gossip.

Yeah.

And just create a dance. Two powerful influencers Start a conversation, leave them, they will argue, they will talk about it. While they are doing that, we've passed behind and we have done important things.

So do you know, do you know the annoying thing is how that there are information out there that even shows that this thing is done deliberately. I've heard few celebrities talk about the fact that they've been paid to bash their fellow celebrities so that they can trend. It's out there.

Yeah, it is.

So a fool— again, it's not an insult, by the way.

This conversation is painful.

A fool, by the way, we actually see the truth but we never embrace it. Yeah. Again, thinking about the concept of assimilation and accommodation, right? So you just see it. Oh, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you— they can put things right in their face. You can— in fact, you can tell a fool, I want to kill you, and the fool will entertain you. And you know, kill me, never prepares for it. Wow. Because to a fool, it is tough to think. Wow. But the, the annoying thing is we all have brains, we can use it. So that's why it's easy for people in this side of the world to put everything on God. And when you, who are same color with them, is trying to tell them, hey, hey, hey, hey, this God you're putting things on actually puts you here to take responsibility for things, they say you're saying gibberish, not knowing that they are the ones spewing what I call broken monologues.

You are no longer a Christian. Yeah, because the definition of Christianity in this part of the world often is associated with irresponsibility.

Again, environment. For instance, let's say I'm a pastor, for instance, and oh, you have a problem, you come to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I said one or two things, it gets solved. Number one, you have fueled my ego. I feel, I feel good.

And nobody wants to become irrelevant.

Nobody wants to become irrelevant. Then after doing that, you give me some money to say, ah, Pastor, thank you so much. Ah, that's very easy. It's very easy to give you fish than to teach you how to fish yourself. And that's why I look at the pastors that teach people how to fish, how to know God for themselves, how to look out, how to know God for themselves, and how to look out for their lives. They say they are not powerful.

Again, the people—

again, what is the definition of power? Power is the ability to make things work, things work. But they've been able to condition the mind of people to see that, to think power is in the drama, to think power is in the spectacular, right? But ability to make perfect right decision, that's powerful. You do the right things at the right time, knowing the reason why you're doing it and knowing how to do it. That is power right there.

From what, from what you're saying, I'm seeing how that the interest of the people, because of their orientation, orientation, it foils their oppressors, foils their deceivers. Anyone who wants to deceive you will check what can get you.

Yeah.

And if you are a kind of person who believes that you must shake and do kuwi mama, then they come like that, then that's you right there again. And you go to a place where they are teaching you things that you must do, if there's no power here, are they prophesying?

You know, the first time we brought him to the US, somebody was asking me, ah, hey, I've seen his videos online, but does he see visions? So she mentioned names of some, some pastors. I just laughed. I said, just come for the program, you know, again. Definitions. Because if I want to condition your mind, wow, I change the meaning of things. But if you are intelligent, if you leverage on your innate ability that you have on your uniqueness, you won't just follow what anybody says to you.

No, you will not.

You have the ability to process. Yeah, you have a memory too. You can encode information, you can process it before you store it and regurgitated, right? So we need to be conscious of what is going on around us. It's easy to go with the flow, it's easy to go with the trend. And this thing, parents has a lot to play too, because what you're doing as a parent is you're modeling. That's why children will not do what you tell them to do, they do what they see you do.

Yeah.

My daughter is my social experiment. If you meet my daughter, she's not your average— yeah, she's not 2 years yet, she's just 20 months, but she's way ahead of many 2-year-olds. Well, when my daughter meets you, she wants to hug you first. Now, because she's not seen her mom interact with male figure. A lot of males have the issues you have. She will hesitate to move to a male. Then when she sees that dad and mom are comfortable around this person, then she's gonna— then not even fully. You still feel that suspicious. We didn't sit her down to— we didn't do that.

Just observe.

She just observes. She wants to do what daddy does.

Wow.

My daughter does not— it is of recent time that we started playing cartoons for her on the TV. If she wants to have her fun, she goes to her book, although she would read it upside down and read. That is how she engages herself. That's how she, she entertains herself. She has several books. Yes, she may end up tearing it apart, but that is what she sees dad doing. That's what she's— sometimes I'll be on social media, but a book covering it.

Ah, okay, I get you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So children will only do what they see you do as parents. So you're modeling. And that's why, you know, the scripture says, train up a child in the way he should go, when he's old he will never— it's literally curriculum right there. It is. Meaning if you do this, you are going to get this. Well, but if you don't have the tenacity, the intelligence to do it, that's when you'll be banking on miracle. You have bad government, you are trusting God to change your government for you. On the day of election, they will still give you ₦2,500, give you— they will give 10 families one bag of— not even, what am I saying, maybe 4 cups of rice to share, and you still vote them back in. Then you come back to complain and you, you are fasting and praying, you're just wasting your energy. Anyways, fasting is good for your health though, so at least there are some benefits, right?

Yeah.

So it is just garbage in, garbage out. The moment we embrace— so, and we've now seen people who are principled as, oh, they are not powerful, it's because they don't have—

so it means our interest in itself is the motivation of charlatans.

Yeah, and they will do it. They'll keep, they'll keep watering it, they'll keep reinforcing it so that you don't see the main thing that is happening.

And everybody likes to keep the environment that makes them relevant. Um, if you all don't know what you're doing and I want to be relevant as one-eyed man in the city of the blind, the day you know what you're doing, I'll become irrelevant.

Yeah.

So it is important that one way or the other I don't let you know what you should do.

Yeah.

I benefit from your smallness.

Yeah.

And these are the things going on in our society.

Yeah. And guess what, these guys, they even put it to your faces, but because again, mindsets. That's why I think what we need in Africa is what I call— and I've said it to you before— mindset reset. Deliberately, I have systems in place to reset my mindset. Yeah. And that's why if you look at the trajectory of my life, I find myself in rooms where I'm the probably the only person of color in those rooms.

Yeah.

You know, I do things and deliberately I distract people. I don't want you to to— I don't want attention on myself. So when you meet me, you think I'm not— I, I don't want to push myself to— I don't want you to think I'm smart.

Yeah.

So I'm this jovial guy, attention to yourself. Yeah. But when you now see the results I generate, you only be a fool to think I'm not intelligent, actually. Yeah, right. So I have those systems to constantly, you know, reset my mindset because again There are certain beliefs that we have. They are— I call them limiting belief systems that shape our mindsets. You need to accept. You need to be convenient enough in your identity to accept that, no, this is limiting. True. It's tough to do that.

Wow. Yes, it's tough to come to that place of recognition.

Yes, recognition. And that's why humility is powerful.

Yeah.

Humility is not you prostrating or you bending down. Humility is knowing your weakness and knowing your strengths and accepting it. I can't— there are a lot of things that you do, I'm like, oh boy, I can't, I can't do this.

Yeah, there are lots of things you do, I said, oh no, I need to get there.

I can't try this. So if I want to do it, I have to learn. A case in point, Cristiano Ronaldo versus Messi. When you look at Messi as a Messi does not need to show. You just— this is ball.

We don't want to start the argument here.

I know you don't like it. I'm a Cristiano Ronaldo fan.

Okay, you're welcome.

But look at the efforts Ronaldo is pushing into his—

that's work right there.

That's work right there. Again, is as a result of growth mindset. He believes for me to get to this level, I have to put this work.

Wow.

I've read about the work rate of Messi. I've read about the work— it's different. Ronaldo actually works more.

Everyone he's ever played with mentions that.

So, belief system. And that's why at 40, 41, he's still playing. He still cries. It's the passion.

I'm like, ah, that's not a gift, that's cultivated.

Cultivated. That's what I'm talking about. So we can begin to cultivate these things, and that's why podcast like this is very important. So if you are an intelligent— if you feel you're very intelligent, you're smart, you have value to add to the society, and you feel, oh, the society will not appreciate it, remember the premise I started with: people influences environment, environment influences people.

Start first.

So start, start anyhow. Oh, I don't have a, a powerful camera. You have a phone. Start. Just do it. That's my, my motto from Nike.

You know why we started this podcast?

Why?

I saw that the kind of society we want to build is not possible if we don't make intelligent conversation popular again.

Yeah.

And I also know that an intelligent conversation must also be an objective conversation. So someone might sit with me and I don't 100% agree with what the person is saying, but the ability to give them a safe space to say it, because each guest I have represent a community. Yeah, it is just one person seated, but there are the invisible thousands and sometimes millions who have this same belief system, who have this same mindset. So I believe that the podcast table is not a place to invite people and dismiss them, but for them to be heard. Their opinions can be heard, and that we can rub minds together. And I think that we must understand that if the— so if we are going to get the kind of society that is good, it can't be our opinions alone, regardless of how sane or how no matter how powerful we think our opinions are. In that environment, you will have those who believe in God, you'll have those who don't, you'll have those who believe in vices, you'll have those who don't. So the ability to recognize everyone's uniqueness, even whilst you want to influence a change—

can I shock you?

Yes.

That is intelligence right there. And in doing that, you've been a better person too. Yes, because you've been able to learn from your best too. So it's a learning curve and learning experience for you.

Yes.

Now I want to flip this this way, that the moment you understand that as long as you are in this planet called Earth, nothing is perfect.

Nothing is.

That will humble you. Nothing is. That there's a probability that what you think you know is actually false. That will push you to learn.

True.

And you now discover that the more you learn, the more you discover that you don't know. It pushes you to learn.

They say the more you know, the more you know you don't know.

The more you know, the more you discover what you don't know. Wow. A wise man said it to me some years ago. He says, in the mind of a man, there are two mountains: the mountain of wisdom, the mountain of ignorance, right? So the more you get involved with learning, you increase your mountain of wisdom and you reduce your mountain of ignorance. Because the mountain of wisdom, when you stand on that peak, it gets— you get to see your mountain of ignorance. You get to see, oh, I don't know this. Are you serious? For you to, you know, sort of learn more.

So you're even humbles you. It humbles you, right?

So when you're, when you're interacting, so you— when you learn, when you're intelligent, you have emotional intelligence. You have relational intelligence. You can read the room. You can read the room. You can relate properly. You can't say you are intelligent and you don't have relational skills. Nah, because that is what— that is what makes humans unique. Even some animals are called social animals. They have to be trained too. Some of them have to be trained. There are Those that can, we use them in security, yeah, functions and all of— they have to be trained to do that. But it's natural to you, you've not just cultivated it.

And sometimes because of association and the association—

again, association is not just your friends. Association is the pages you like on Instagram, the, the accounts you follow and all of those things, because they form— those informations are not There's no vacuum. Nature does— nature abhors vacuum. Yeah, everything has a residual effect.

Yeah. I want to ask you a very important question as we wrap up. You right now, you are a university lecturer. Am I permitted to call you a prof?

That's what they call me, Professor.

At this age, do you think it was possible— it is possible, or it was— it should have been possible for you to achieve this in your own country?

I didn't see that coming. Capital N-O. Why? Again, the system. I'll give you an example. Um, in the US, for instance, if you graduate tops of your class, bachelor's, you don't need to do a master's to go for your PhD. Most of our guys doing PhD in the US, from NYSE to PhD, because they either had a first class or a strong 2:1 with work experience. And as long as you can Femi Lazarus. Yeah, you get into a PhD program fully funded. Wow, right? So opportunities— again, it's a smart system because they know if we invest into talent, this talent will produce results back to us and we generate revenue from there. Beautiful. So even the people at the top of that strata They are not intelligent because when you invest, there has to be return on your investments. When you invest into talents, the talent is productive, you get resources, you generate revenue from it, you make more money.

Can we then say that the reason why we have brain drain is because the system doesn't support the young people?

Yes, they don't. We don't. That's why I started by saying we are an anti-intellectual society. We don't reward intellect, even schools too. Even schools too, we don't. Because again, do you know the purpose of— when you look at schooling now, I'm not talking about education, that is the, the oven for the mindset of a society.

True.

Check what is going on in your school. I'm not talking about what they teach in chemistry, biology, physics. I'm talking about all those nuances, all those social part of the academic environment that happens. You want to go write exam? Yeah, they frustrated your life before writing the exam.

That's education right there.

That's education right there. So I believe it has to be tough for you to get it.

You queue, have to—

I must frustrate That is why some developmental things that don't— you don't require rocket science, you don't need the brain of an astronaut to do it. It's tough here because of what you've been conditioned to think about. You want to write exam, you go with torchlight to write exam. It has to be difficult. You want to go to school, you put chairs on your head to go to— it has to be tough.

When they are now slow with developing this community mentality, we believe that that's the way the system works. They've engineered you by slowing you down, so when they are slow, you just accept it.

And guess what? When you now see someone who just rides on the principle of life, who is intelligent, you think there's an external force that supports it. So it's either he's using jazz or an extra grace.

Let me tap your grace.

Let me tap your grace. Or see, people who even were in the realm of let me tap your grace I still gave them some sort of thumbs up. Some people don't believe that you can make some certain amount of money if you do not do money ritual. Do you know that that is not in the consciousness of someone from a developed country in the first place? A 24-year-old girl told me, she said, um, She has finished paying for her mortgage. She has finished paying for her car.

Hey, 24-year-old.

24-year-old.

She's still in school?

Yeah, she's done with her bachelor's now. In fact, what led to that conversation, because I mentor young people across board, so she just joined my mentorship Femi Lazarus Academy, and we're just talking about a degree, and she was like, when she's done with school, that she's not using the certificate, that she's just in school because of her mom. So she's handing over. So she has 3 businesses that she's running at that age. But when you look at the curriculum, when you look at this, with the society is— there's, there's a way they've programmed it, so there's a way you think. You cannot live beyond your thinking prowess. In fact, someone says, if you don't think, you stink. So the outcome we have in our society is reflective of our thought pattern, the quality of thoughts we have.

Yeah.

And what shapes the quality of your thoughts is the information you have access access to.

Yeah.

Someone asked me recently, he says, I know you, you were raised in Agege, but, um, I observed you and your siblings, you don't look like— where my dad did a fantastic job. Wow. So I talk about him anyway whenever I want to talk about this. Wow. My dad, I didn't know my dad was a driver until I got to SS1.

Wow.

All along, when they asked for occupation of being, I'll put banker. Because my dad will leave the house, he's a driver, but he leaves the house with his tie, shirt, trouser, well dressed. He ensures that there's food in the house.

Wow.

He ensures that we don't mix with— or the moment we mix— so in our neighborhood, if some children steal something, they don't mention our names because these ones are either in tutorial classes and whatever. Then he did something amazing when he sees that, oh, these guys are now maturing. He will ask us to come see him in his office. In fact, that was when I knew he was a driver. So he will leave the house with shirts. When he gets to the office, he pulls it off, wear his normal round neck and all of that. Then young guys will be sending him on errands. Then he would tell me, he says, this one is 22, this one is 23. You know how old I am. I know my dad's salary. He didn't hide, he never hides. In fact, his pension, when they gave him the check, he showed me. Me, see, I worked here for 25 years, see the amount they gave to me, and I know that one day you make this amount in one day, which is true. Yeah, definitely, right? So me going to that environment, seeing young chaps well dressed, well coordinated, I told myself, nah. So I'm not aspiring to be a Rashidi that has two tricycle in the neighborhood oppressing every other person because he has access to some girls that cannot speak good English, and I can't take that as my model. I know that there's more.

Do you see that genius?

So he did that perfectly. So we are not— my younger, my last born posted something on his status and I, I cried. He said he learned something from his brothers. He didn't know that we learned it from our dad, that they will have 20 naira. They will manage it. And you've seen that, but they will manage.

We don't want to talk about that today.

20 million naira, true, modeling. I saw my dad did that, so it was easy for me to live my life like that, and I saw the benefits.

Wow. I want to let you know that your life is an inspiration.

Um, thank you, sir.

And seeing what is going on right now Femi Lazarus, you've said so many things today, and I'm sure everyone watching probably on their feet right now. Um, and, um, and one thing that we cannot deny about this session is how inspiring it is. And it is one of those sessions that I can say that indeed anyone who have ears for intelligent conversation knows that this is their thing. And I want to especially thank you for Thank you for having me. Thank you.