THE CRISIS OF THE MODERN MAN

If you know you are not taking one kobo of this thing out of this earth when you die, what now matters to you is legacy. Whose life was touched? If we start emphasizing this, we will shift people from materialism to purposeful enterprise. Austerity, legacy.

You know, it kind of makes me wonder how a man like you will answer this question. Who are you?

That's a very interesting question. Wealth is a tool. Money is a tool. Success is a tool. We must start letting people know that wealth is a tool. What is the task? I am very pro-wealth because wealth gives you options. What I'm saying, in anything you are pursuing, don't lose yourself. Understand the why of what you are doing. And when the cost is getting too much, what is it profiting you to gain this? Before, I was looking at what I stand to gain. Now I look at what I stand to lose. If your greatest contribution was when you died, then you wasted your life.

Is there a part of luck that Norm emotions. Oh yes.

You cannot discover your true identity in the absence of options. And the absence of options does not imply discipline. Wealth gives you options. It's one of the reasons why everybody at some point in their lives should be able to afford whatever they desire in the degree that they desire it. As at when they desire it, so that we can know who they really are.

The first time on Declassified, I have to say amen. And I'm saying this for everyone listening to us.

Yes, I believe it's a personal human right. At some point before you die, you should be able to afford whatever you desire or require in the degree that you Hey guys, if you're watching this now, that means you have ears for intelligent conversations and this is exactly where you want to be.

We have conversations that will get you at the edge of your seat, and this particular one is one you don't want to miss. I have a very honest request from you as we start this conversation. I'd like for you to like this broadcast that helps us to get this to as many people as possible. You know, we can work together getting intelligent conversations to people all over the world. And I'd like you to drop your comment. Let us know how you feel. Let's know how this has impacted you. And one thing you want to do also is to subscribe to this YouTube channel, as this will notify you whenever we're bringing up videos, um, podcasts, or any other kind of video that can be a blessing to your heart. I look forward to having you again and again on this show. Thank you so much. So there's something I've observed, um, and this— I don't know how to describe it, whether to call it, um, disturbing. I think it is disturbing how that you see people that obviously they are doing well, and you look closely at them, you'll be amazed at the effort they put on to let those who are not up to them know that they are nothing and want to— it looks like an emptiness even when the fellow looks like they are coming from so much. Is this something you have observed before in the society?

Yes, it is. It's, it's everywhere, the need to not just be successful but to be seen to be successful. There are very few people who can enjoy their success without making reference to somebody else. You see it in our convoys, our political— if the real purpose is security, a good portion of security is stealth. If I can hear you from afar, I can relay you. So that convoy is largely not for security.

It's for—

is to let people know that a successful person is coming.

Can we, can we get into the root of that? Where do you think that is coming from?

I think people have not been properly guided on the essence of life. I don't think many people have had successful people sit them down and describe to them the journey of success, how to succeed, how to maintain success, how to manage the side effect of success. So we largely teach people on how to succeed. Ah, you don't see that follow-up on how to manage the side effect of success. And there is a side effect of success. When you have eaten when you are fat, when you have built houses, do not forget. For there to be a divine warning not to forget, that means you can forget. So success management is more important than teaching success creation, in my opinion.

Can we get into the— that culture? Because that's the root of a classist society.

Very true.

You know, I travel different part of the world and you can see a very wealthy person in other part of the world and they don't even look like it. Yes. But here it looks like there is always an attempt to let people know if I am successful.

So I, I give an example. There was a time I was I was traveling and I was traveling through Ethiopia, and the cleaner that was cleaning as we were passing to do our immigration, some people jumped the queue and the cleaner told the people to go back and join the line. Wow. I was shocked because a cleaner in a Nigerian airport does not even have the audacity. He's probably saying, Chairman, we're here for you. And I looked at those Ethiopians, right? And I was like, what a sense of ownership. She was like, you are in my country, I am a cleaner, but you will do the right thing. And I observed that and I was like, this is interesting. Her authority is not from her income, her authority is from her understanding of what they're trying to build in her nation. And she feels like she's a part of the people building that. So, um, I really believe that if people again are trained on what really matters, what are we trying to build, then you will see success as a tool. Money is a tool. Success is a tool. If I call a carpenter to come and do something and he shows up with a golden hammer, iced-out hammer, crystals, diamonds, Swarovski, and he's showing me how beautiful the hammer is. For a while, I will be carried away, but after a while, I'll be like, okay, let's get down to why we are here. I need to construct a stool. If he keeps showing me the hammer, after a while, I'll be like, guy, I have seen your hammer. What are we building? Tools are for tasks. So the moment we start to we place a demand on people with tools to show us the tasks they are completing, after a while they themselves will not even want the responsibility of the tools because they know they have no tasks. So if someone comes, an experienced carpenter, and he's holding a stone and he says, where is the stool you want to create? And he can use that stone as a hammer. Then I have respect for him, not because of his tool, because of the dexterity of the task. We must start letting people know that wealth is a tool. What is the task? If a person has amassed or misappropriated 235 billion, sit him down and ask him, what is the task that you require this resource for? He will feel very stupid after a while because you have all these resources but you don't know what to do with it. Automatically, that deflates his ego. So he wants you to respect him because he has so much money. But the question I will ask is, what are you building with the money that you have gotten? And once you can't answer that, then it makes the person start to search, because we are not taking anything out of this.

That's even if they have consci—

That's another— that's another— so people with resources should start, and who are building things, should start showing up and letting people know, this is what I am building, so that those who have resources that are building nothing can keep quiet.

Wow. So it is the tool you don't have work for that you become proud about? Yes. Because after all, there's nothing to do.

Yes. Once I'm with— I'm actively making the stool with the hammer, and you come to start hailing me for the hammer, you are distracting me. Stop talking about the hammer, talk about what we are building. It's a slight shift, but I think it changes everything.

There's also the part that people play in this thing we call a classist society, where people themselves who don't have enough don't regard those who don't have enough and will die for anybody who have, you know. Yeah. Look at that now, for instance. What do you say about that?

I think again that, um, so I remember growing up that there was a time the village headmaster had more respect and influence than the wealthiest businessman in the village because the headmaster was responsible for imparting culture and competence.

True, yeah.

And knowledge to the next generation.

Yeah.

Again, the task.

Yeah.

So if a person just wants to be wealthy for the sake of being wealthy, I think we need to start, in quote, interrogating those people. We need to return to a place where, again, what you are building and who you are building is more important than what you are amassing. And this must be emphasized at every point in time. There is a place for rewarding yourself with the fruit of your effort and your labor, but if you know you are not taking one kobo of this thing out of this earth when you die, what now matters to you is legacy. Whose life was touched when you pass on.

Yeah.

If we start emphasizing this, we will shift people from materialism to purposeful enterprise.

Posterity.

Yes, posterity, legacy.

Is it kind of make me wonder how a man like you will answer this question.

Okay, who are you? Who am I? Okay, that's a very interesting question because I mean, self-identity is everything. Um, so at some point in my life, I started asking real questions, questioning my faith, questioning my walk with God, questioning the effect of what I call my walk with God on the quality of lives of people around me. Because you can't say you know the most amazing personality and it doesn't translate to affecting the lives of people around you. If, for example, I know Elon Musk, the people in my community should feel the impact of me knowing Elon Musk. If I say I know, um, Donald Trump, the people around me should feel the impact. So if I claim to know God, the people around me should feel the impact. And I realized that the first thing, if I'm to say who am I, is I'm a person here on Earth to experience the human journey. What I mean by that is I am here to be present. So like I'm seated here with you now, I am here to take in this moment. I am here to— oh, I am sitting with AFL and his team. What is that experience doing to me, adding to me, taking from me? So the first thing is presence, not complaining about your situation. Yeah, you were born to be present. You were born to be here at this time. So it's a privilege. There are many people who cannot just be present. So you are seated here, but you're thinking about something in the future, a future bill, or a future goal, or a future plan. It is good, but really all you have is now. I can step out from here and this will have been my last moment on earth. So did I enjoy it? So every experience, apart from naming it bad or good, just enjoy it. Wow. So who am I? I'm someone here on earth to enjoy the experience. Yes, you can think about the past. Yes. And live in regret. Yes. Or just learn from it and use that lesson for your now. Oh, I shouted on someone 3 days ago, he didn't like it. Now I'm here today, triggering experience has happened, I want to shout again. I go to the past to remember that and say, no, that wasn't good. So in the now, I don't replicate the regrets of the past. But if there was something that was good in the past, I bring it into the now and I experience it now. Then the future too is not given. That future too is still a present moment. So the first thing I say to everybody is, What are you experiencing now? I know they hurt you. I know that they abused you. I know life was unfair to you, but you are here now. And you have people like that, they stand in front of people that can help them, and instead of them talking about now, they're talking about what happened in the past, and they just leave it there. I've heard what happened in the past. What are you doing now? So be present. Be present. Don't let the future rob you of now. Don't let the past rob you of now. That's why you see some people that are perpetually materialistic. Oh, when I have this amount of money, when I buy this phone, oh, when I buy this property, oh, when I move to this neighborhood, oh, when I buy this jet. And so because they never live in the now, they're always living in the next thing. So they've literally done something that they should just sit down and enjoy now. But they're already inadequate because they are thinking of— thank you. You've gotten the iPhone 17, you're thinking about how to get it. Enjoy the one you got now. There are so many people that are living in a reality today that they never thought they would experience. And instead of them to just say, enjoy it. So that's the first thing. I am here to be present, to be aware. The second thing is I'm here for growth. Because every living thing, from the moment it shows up and it's present, the next thing is it starts growing. The person I saw today as a small child, 20 years from now, that's an adult. So this now brings me to the second question: How am I intentionally growing? Because everything that is present, that is alive, is growing unintentionally. But it is not about unintentional growth, it's about intentional growth. What am I doing to become a better version of myself? So that's the second thing. The first is presence, just enjoy the moment. The second is growth because of the future. How am I growing? What am I doing to gain structure, strength, stature, wisdom? And the boy grew in wisdom and in stature. That's the whole point. Wisdom is knowing what best to do next. Stature is the capacity to experience and exploit pressure. How am I growing every day? Intentionality of growth. This thing I'm doing, Am I growing or am I retrogressing? That's the second thing of my identity. I am a person here to grow. Who you saw this year is not who you saw last year. And as you are growing, you're also giving grace to other people. Yeah, because they are also growing.

That's a very powerful word. One of the signs that shows you're growing is gracefulness. You become gracious towards others. You can accommodate them, knowing that where they are currently might be where you have been. And that, that brings me to the next thing. I was speaking with an amazing lady in our church in Kenya, and she said something that made me think that night. She said, I've observed you guys Nigerians, your life is largely transactional. And we in Kenya, our society, our life is largely relational. She said, and when I looked at it, I saw that it was true. When you go around in Kenya, there's a mentality that look, you know, they like the community, like in church, people come together, eat together, dine together, celebrate themselves, sit in gardens, do all those things. In a sense, we may feel that, oh well, maybe they have all their needs met, but they do that regardless of the needs on ground. I think there's something quite not settling with me about the way we go about life. We spend every day chasing money, or whatever it is we consider important, and we never truly live. Families— children never truly experience their parents, wife never truly experience the husband, the husband never truly experience the wife. Um, and you can even be in a church that you have never seen truly experience your pastor as human. So we now tend to want to replace, to fill those gaps with a lot of performance, wax-coated performance and all that. And one of the things I respect about you when I see you is the fact that you are not just existing, you are, and like you rightly said, experiencing. I love your bond with your children, with your wife, I love the intentionality and all that. I want us to dive into living that life that regardless of what is not there yet, at least be alive and enjoy life.

So I must give credit to the kind of woman I married. Hmm. Because of the trauma I experienced growing up, I placed a premium on success, on wealth. And I got married to someone who enjoys the journey while waiting for the destination. I came from— so my background is funny. Femi Lazarus, mother from a wealthy home, father from a very poor background. So I saw the best of the both sides, and I know the side I choose. So, um, I have no memory of going to visit my paternal grandparents. I have so many memories of spending time with my maternal grandparents. You chose the rich side. Of course, because I, I am, I am very pro-wealth because wealth gives you options. But I'm saying, in anything you are pursuing, don't lose yourself. Understand the why of what you are doing. And when the cost is getting too much, what is it profiting you to gain this? I don't look anymore— before I was looking at what I stand to gain. Now I look at what I stand to lose while trying to gain something. It changed everything for me because it now makes you say, what is the cost-benefit of this? So with regard to how that people are more transactional in this part of the world, it's number one, hardship. When you have a government that does not provide things for you, you are forced to provide for yourself. I don't know much about the Kenyan ecosystem. You've been— but I do know— no, I've not. I've been to Rwanda, Ethiopia, I've never actually been.

But you see how we wonder?

Yes, yes, yes. And it's because the society actually has started working, so people don't need to put so much pressure on themselves. In this country, you provide your light, your own power, you provide your own water, you provide your own security.

I feel teary while you're talking. Why do you say in the sense that we must— you see, and I say this as one who have been misunderstood who have been bashed, as one who have been lied against even by this same country. But when I look at it truly, we— regardless of what any Nigerian turn out to be, it is tough being in Nigeria.

It is extremely tough being in Nigeria. The age barrier of the toughness— so before you used to experience the toughness maybe in your 30s, then it dropped to your 20s, then it dropped to your 10s. Right now there are children who are experiencing what it is like to be Nigerian in—

have you seen the pictures of those children?

4 years old, 5 years old, 2 years old. Exactly.

Those children were there, and this is very concerning, when that man's head was being cut out.

They saw it. They can never recover from that trauma.

Remain the same.

Their amygdala, their amygdala, which is in development phase, the part of the brain that is responsible for, for flight or fight, yes, it has been triggered permanently. Their prefrontal cortex, which develops much later, will spend years catching up with that experience. Now everybody talks about the children who were, who are in currently in captivity. Let's talk about the captors, the kidnappers. Yes, it is very possible because I've lived in the North.

When you look at Almajiris, I grew up in the North, I know the system.

You will see a child that has been forced to take responsibility for himself. Do you know it's possible that those, those kidnappers may be looking at those children and saying, what are you going through that I didn't go through? Oh, because I'm tying you up, I was tied up. Yes, because you are starving, I was starving. My life changed when I got this gun. So it's a recycling of pain, it's a recycling of hopelessness. And being a Nigerian and having to go through these levels of hardship at different levels forces you to become a survivor. A person who is trying to survive is not thinking of thriving. Yeah. So we must balance it. Yes, we are transactional, but if I have to pay for my own electricity, pay for my own security, pay for my own water, pay for my own internet, a time will come when I have to you actually be a hustler. And this is why everywhere Nigerians go, they, they intimidate the indigenes of those places because we have such a— nobody's gonna do it for you, so you have to do it for yourself. So let's be gracious to ourselves as Nigerians, but let's also ask ourselves, what is the cost of being that way? Yeah, what are we losing as a society? What is happening to our compassion? What is happening to our human connection? Because only then can we now start bringing balance and bringing healing to ourselves first as individuals and then as a nation.

And this has affected every area because you can even be in ministry and you're just looking for when the next venue will be filled and never truly enjoy the process. You know, the culture that takes pride and sense of meaning in what can appear on picture is a culture of vanity.

A lot of things have gone wrong, and they went wrong in such a short span of time. I remember the times when if a person was prosperous in this country, you would be suspicious, and there was more dignity in verifying the proof of people's wealth and status than in just accepting and celebrating it. We've lost it. We have to get back to it. It will take time, but until we attack this hydra-headed monster called materialism—

well, it doesn't matter what you—

how you go— the means just— the ends justifies the means. We have to attack it. It's costing us too much.

I'm sorry, I'm, I, I'm always, um, in our podcast I have a culture. Number one, I want people to be heard. Before we started the Classified Podcast, we were running a platform called Stories, and that tells you that I just believe that people deserve to be heard. You may now have concerns with their perspective, but people deserve to be heard. You see, Um, I remember seeing a video, and I honestly have nothing against the young man. I feel, I feel he's growing, and he's also very honest and, um, and also humble. Everybody grows. But I, when I saw that video, I've never had to speak about it publicly. I wept. And maybe he was playing with it, but I wept because I know what it means to be in that person's shoe. They were having some talk and was holding out money, and a man was pursuing. He was pursuing and he was just laughing. Ah, that broke me. You know, because somebody will watch that and the person's conclusion is, I must be that guy in that car. I say, see what they do to us when we don't have. This is why you must have by all means. Women won't respect you if you don't have. Your children won't consider you a father. The society won't consider you anything important. So I think there is a part of this that has to do with our taste bud. That you, you may come to a place not dressing so well, but can I still look at you? And see someone who deserves to be dignified, someone who deserves to be respected, someone who deserves to be seen, to be heard, to be honored. While people complain about this happening, but it is also what we do. Um, if I drive my car and I pass through my estate gate They greet. If I take boat and pass through that same place, you even greet, they won't answer. So it's not me, it's the worship of the things. And we do it ourselves.

I think, I think again, the goal is just to— like you asked me that question, who are you? The goal is first to be present. To take in the experiences and to say, oh, this is good, this is bad, this is not nice, this can be better. Just be present in that moment. The second goal is growth, to make a commitment to always becoming a better version of yourself, no matter the pace, no matter the speed. The third is contribution. Now that I have grown, now that I have gotten to a place where I am a person of stature How am I now using this tool of success and stature to contribute, to give back, to change? Because I myself am the recipient of somebody else's growth. I was born in a hospital. Some people went to school to study medicine. I was raised in a school. Some people went— so I am a product of people's contribution. What will be my own contribution? Because that's why we are here. The moment a person dies and is buried, he starts giving back. Your skin, your soil, the only thing that is left is your teeth to just show you that your existence was for contribution, for supporting the ecosystem. Every single thing in terms of the physical side of things. So if in death you are contributing to the ecosystem, what did you do in life? What did you do in life if your greatest contribution was when you died? Then you wasted your life. And the more we can tell children, especially since we are privileged to be rising gradually through the ranks of influence in society, is to say, "Come, wealth is a trust." I remember going to one African nation, and I won't call the name because I don't want it to look like I'm pro-Nigeria, and I'm very patriotic, I love my country. When I got there, we were just hanging around. I went on a business trip and were in a restaurant, a bistro, and somebody came in and somebody said, "That's the junior brother of the First Lady." And this guy went and was shaking everybody's hand. He wasn't expecting people to come and greet him. He was the one greeting everybody. Another person came in and the person was like, "Oh, do you know this popular song? That's the musician." And he was greeting everybody. Then another person came and said, "That's like the daughter of the First Daughter." And she came in with two, like, guards, and nobody was paying attention to her. I had to ask the person to say, "If you are very funny in your country..." And I remember him saying he would take me to the house of the vice president. And we drove right, like, this was the security post, that was the gate. And I was like, "Are you sure he's the vice president? Because even a local government chairman..." And he was saying that, yeah, that in their country, wealth and power is a responsibility. Once you have it, they believe that God gave it to you as a conduit to reach other people.

Is this an African country?

It's an African country. It's West African. I entered with my ECOWAS passport. And I told them, I said, you see this thing, the way you people look up to Nigeria, we have a lot to learn from. Don't learn our materialism.

Is this Ghana?

It's not Ghana. It's It's not Ghana.

I've had something close to—

yeah, all those— yeah, yes, yes. If you, if you go through those, those, um, West African countries, you would see that sharp difference. Our greatest strength is our proactive ability, but we have become so transactional that we are losing what is relational.

So someone might be hearing this now and say, I get you. Yes, you want me to pause. And be present. Yes. And be aware.

Yes. And be grateful.

And be grateful. Says, but my wife or my husband, in whatever case, yeah, whoever is the breadwinner, won't respect me if I don't have. So this is not just— and people might be listening because I'm trying to be in their shoes and say, it's not like I don't want to be present, it's not like I don't want to go to the beach and just rest. He said, but honor here is based on subscription. True.

So someone can look at me and say, eh, Femi, you, you are sorted. I always tell people, if you go back through my social media, Facebook, 10, 15 years ago, I always had this big smile on my face, lean head and everything, but I was always smiling because in my mind, I'm here to experience this thing called Humanity. So I think that's the first thing, to just realize that this is an experience. No matter how wealthy you are, there's somebody wealthier than you. No matter how poor you are, there's somebody poorer than you. Be present, be grateful. Secondly, as much as is possible, surround yourself with people who have similar perspectives with you.

Yes.

And then realize that some people are wired naturally to make money more easily than others. So for example, I wasn't always a relational being. In fact, some people that know me will watch this podcast and say, "E? What has happened to Ejimi?" It's because I hung around relational people. My wife is an extremely relational person and she started showing me the cost of losing relationships because you are pursuing success outcomes.

So you were not really relational before? Ah.

Nothing concerning relationship. And I say that in a good way. I was a very nice person. I still am. I respect everybody. But I was a very— as you lay your bed, so you lie on it. I was a very— if you joke with life, life will deal with you. Even with how I used to raise my children, I'd be like, you need to be serious, you need to be— then I realized that no, you don't. Having food and raiment, let every man be content therewith. Have you had to ever apologize to your children for I apologize on a daily basis. I apologize to my wife on a daily basis. I apologize to my kids. I learn from them. I see their largeness of heart. I see their openness. And I know that partly why they can be like that is because they didn't grow up in the kind of lack that I grew up in. So it has its place. But I also know people who are way more prosperous than me that their children are having a horrible time because the parents are still in hustle mode. Hustle mode. And I know what's going to— what's waiting for those parents. When they get to their old age, they will have children who are grateful to them, but those children will not like them. They will have children who have gratitude but don't have love. So you start hearing things like, "You people don't call me." And I say this all the time. "You people are just there in America, you're there in Canada, you don't visit home." They were never connected to you. You placed transactions above relationship. And so now they forged relationships with people who mean more to them where they are. So I think we should not just look at what we are gaining, we should look at what we are losing while trying to gain certain things. That's the balance.

The way you were able to apologize to your children, yeah, did you learn it from your parents?

So my mom, God bless her soul, was a very, very emotionally aware woman, but to a large extent she was the breadwinner. So I saw her having to be strong. In fact, it was when I grew up that I realized that women were not designed to be strong. Women are designed to be soft, to be carried, to be nurtured. If you have a woman that is unnecessarily strong, as a man, you are doing a horrible job. I say this without any offense.

She's been made to carry loads she's not designed to carry.

If your woman has never behaved like a little girl in your presence, you are not showing up as a man. You will see women that when you see them in the boardroom, when you see them in the corporate corridors, they are proactive. They are on their A-game. When their man shows up and you see them around their man, you'll be looking and saying, what happened to madam? That is a man that has shown up in the manly leadership perspective. So I didn't have that privilege of understanding that. So it was later on that I now realized that, oh, the home is supposed to be such a safe space. That people are free to be their true selves without any sense of judgment.

I have a question. This question might be deeply troubling. I'm trying to make sense. I've heard what you said, but there's a part of it I really want to dig into. You said the other time that your mom came from a wealthy part Your dad came from a part where there was a lot of lack.

Yes.

Then you also now mentioned that your mom is, or was, she's late now, emotionally aware.

Yes.

Is there a part of lack that numbs emotions?

Oh yes. Ah, you cannot discover your true identity in the absence of options. Eh? You see people's true behavior at a buffet. Ah, everybody's disciplined when they are serving you food. When they say serve yourself, you will really know whether people are disciplined. And the absence of options does not imply discipline. Wealth gives you options. It's one of the reasons why everybody at some point in their lives should be able to afford whatever they desire in the degree that they desire it, as at when they desire it, so that we can know who they really are. At some point before you die, you should be able to afford whatever you desire or require in the degree that you desire.

Is this the reason why when people have walked in lack for a long time and now they have entered into abundance, if care is not taken, they become prone to the things they've always desired but didn't have money for?

Now they do it with so much When I entered into certain levels of supply, I was surprised by my behavior. Wow. I surprised myself. I was shocked. In fact, I can't— I was a very, very judgmental person. You don't really know your true self until you have options. And so for me, I think everybody should, to the best of their ability, Master the art and science of becoming successful financially and otherwise. It will bring humility to you when you discover who you really are. It is also part of success management, letting people know that I'm not deceived by your humility. When your net worth increases, let's see whether you'll be this humble when everybody around you is saying, sir, sir, sir. Wow. Let's see whether you will be able to not flinch when somebody says, oh boy, come here. I make reference to someone in the Bible, Jethro. Jethro never ceases to amaze me. When Jethro met Moses, Moses was a fugitive on the run. He was hopeless, helpless, and Jethro reached out to him, gave him a wife, gave him a home, gave him a job, guided him And then Moses goes, comes back with millions of Israelites and the wealth of Egypt. And then Jethro looks at Moses and says, 'Let me advise you, this leadership structure you have is going to destroy you.' And I looked at Jethro and said, 'What kind of man is this? When Moses was poor and beggarly, he didn't move you. When Moses became the president of a whole nation, it also didn't move you.' I said, 'God, Number 1, put Jethros in my life that will talk to me when I am nothing and talk to me when I am something. Number 2, give me capacity to be Jethro so that whoever I contributed to their rising, when they eventually become successful, I will now say, you are proud, you don't pick our course, you do this, you do that, so I remain secure. And I'm saying this to say that as we transition in life from one stage of success to another, we must maintain the postures that got us to where we are. It's easier said than done, but I think it's a worthy pursuit.

Just last question on parenting. Yes, what's your—

I don't know if I answered that last question. I digressed. You did. Okay.

What's your biggest fear when you look at your children?

I don't want to stifle my children.

In what sense?

That they came through me does not mean that they are an extension of me. So I must realize that I'm just the custodian for a season. So when they start to exhibit traits that are not bad, but they're just unfamiliar, I should have enough trust in God that he's the one that sent them, and I should have enough capacity to allow them be themselves. So I want to guide them to the extent that they need guidance, but I want my boundaries to be so wide that even within those boundaries they can find expression. Too many parents take their children's behavior personal. You disgraced me. Remember the son of who you are. Why? Why should they remember the son of who they are?

You saying they should not remember?

What I'm saying is that they are their own unique individuals, and if you raise them correctly, they would, they would extend your boundaries, they would advance, they would do— if your kids are not doing things that make you say, God help me, I don't think you're parenting right. If not, you're just going to replicate a clone of yourself.

You can— it might be that you're shutting them down. Yes, but as they get the freedom to find themselves themselves, the first person they rebel against is you and your systems, and you feel so betrayed. Yes.

So I'm saying that train up a child in the way that child should go.

Yeah.

So beyond giving them basic principles— character, competence, compassion, connection with God— yeah, every other thing that stems out of creativity and joy, let them make their mistakes. In fact, factor in their mistakes. And be there for them. I don't think your child should feel safer outside than they feel at home. I was listening to— I think it was— and that's one man that I respect, Pastor Taiwo Odukoya, God bless his soul. He was able to raise children who are distinctly themselves but held firm to his core values.

But people look at them and feel it's rebellion. Well, again, it shows you that an average person who is commenting on what they have not experience is about to raise a dysfunctional family.

I would rather that my children show me the extent of their creativity, as long as it's not unscriptural, as long as it's not illegal, as long as it's not injurious. Please enjoy yourself. Again, like I said, the purpose of the human experience is to experience humanity.

Yeah, you know, when you said this, that a child should not feel safer outside than the Fela Tunde. Again, that makes me feel really some sense of deep pain, and I'll tell you why. Do you know that despite the harassment that Nigerians are going through in South Africa now, many know we are still safer here? And it is now putting those people in a place where We know your country is not good. If you go, you are afraid of kidnapping. I even saw one of them came out, I was talking about the children that were kidnapped. If Nigeria is a parent, why do her children feel safer? Nigerians have a bad, a bad parent. Very true.

And I think when, when we have conversations like this, people feel you are attacking people in power.

No.

Let me give you an example of— let me give you an example on leadership. Yes. So let me, let me give you an example of what I mean. This is just as an aside. If you've noticed, the grid, the power grid in this country has been collapsing more frequently, more frequently, more frequently. I sat down one day and I thought about it. If those turbines in Kainji and all those electricity installations and power plants were created in the '70s and the '80s, The technology to support them is now obsolete. Whoever invented and created those machines no longer provides support for those machines. So if we have not updated our infrastructure, we can no longer find parts and support for it.

But you know, darkness is a business.

Darkness is a business.

Solar business, generator business.

But electricity, renewable energy, is an even bigger business.

There are those who cannot function in a good Nigeria because they have learnt to maximize the openness, the gap in the problem of the country for their business. There are people that if Nigeria becomes good today, they'll be wiped out. They thrive in the chaos.

And that is why these conversations about the true meaning of life, where you look at presence, growth, and contribution, must be emphasized. Because those people are already wealthy. They probably have more money than they can spend in their lifetimes. So we have to ask them, why are you happy amassing wealth as a tool and yet you are not willing to make that transition into other sources of wealth?

Some of these guys are dead inside.

They're less appeal to their children.

You know, that again, I think that again might, you know, one of the things I'm most scared about in this country is that every option we have will take us more years to experience. For instance, if you feel somebody is bad, let's have somebody else. That's another 4 years. Very true. You say these people are bad, let's talk to their children. That's another couple of years to experience what sort of children they are. And I can tell you that many times these children come up more refined in wickedness than the parent.

So I feel that if we have more conversations like this, like this, where first-generation game changers, people who are the ones breaking the cycle and giving their family name a meaning, are engaging people who are second-generation or third-generation wealth builders, and we say you have to build differently, they will pay attention. Yeah, they will pay attention. It may take some time, but the more we push out this narrative that we really have to prioritize humanity above transactions.

Above transactions.

Because let's face it, if we don't fix what is wrong and broken, we're going to also have to leave the country at some point. Our children will have to leave the country at some point.

Yeah, I agree.

And who are we leaving it for?

I agree.

And when we hit rock bottom and there's nowhere further down to go, We will start rising up. These are some of my contemplations.

There's a very personal question I want to ask you.

Uh, I plead defeat.

Personal in, in a very good sense, actually.

Okay, sir.

Have you been lonely before?

Uh-uh. What are we talking about? Is there any man that is not?

Because I want to dive deep into the man's world now.

Is there any man that is not lonely?

Okay. Have you been lonely as a result of an accusation before?

Yes.

Now, that kind of loneliness is like a well that many leaders have experienced. Very true. That people who can't see your intentions, your motives, your heart, your vision, and where you're going turn against you based on what they are seeing. And now you are ostracized. It has positioned many people, because we are relational beings, in a place where they have not been able to find that comfort in the hands of those who are not so good, okay, but understand them. They may be trying to exploit them, but they're okay because they feel understood. Case study: Samson, bind hands and foot. By his own people. And this is not a justification. He found comfort in the laps of Delilah, even though we can say there's a pattern. I want us to delve into how men can handle that journey of loneliness on your path to becoming.

Okay, so I think, um, it's instructive to know that the journey— being a man puts you on a unique path. Of leadership, um, for the people you lead corporately and the people you lead even relationally, emotionally. So I think the first thing is, as a man, is to understand that this is the rigor that comes with your gender, so do not fight it. And I think that's why sometimes you have societies that do initiation ceremonies for young boys. By older men because they're trying to let you know that this heavy experience is not unique to you. Sometimes we find solace in knowing that, oh, okay, I'm not the only one going through this. All right, I'll be fine.

The Zulus do that.

Yes, yes, the Zulus do it. The Jews do it where young men are ushered. So it's literally yesterday I was a boy, today I'm a man. Yeah, I thought like a boy, I put away—

there's a ceremony Passage.

Yes, I think we need to bring that back. And it doesn't have to be done in a big way. It can be fathers hanging out with sons and saying, from today you are now a man. I will treat you like a man. I will accord you the respect of a man. What that immediately does is he feels the responsibility of being a man without being lonely. He's surrounded by men on the day he was made a man. I think we've lost that. We've lost that because fathers go to work, children go to boarding schools. So we need to bring that back, where today I became a man and I put away childish things. So that prepares you for the journey. The second thing is a place of conviction and vision. Who for the joy that was set before him endured. From a very young age, boys should be taught to start envisioning. There's something we do at Becoming Better Men and my team at Value Flow. We have a vision board session where we're starting to gather men to paint a picture of what that man is supposed to be. When I meet someone, I say, who do you want to be like? Pick 5 people that currently exhibit your reality. Yeah. What that does is it supplies grit, it supplies conviction. So what happens now is that person knows that I'm going to be this. And so because of this vision, that sense of hopelessness leaves. I am lonely, but it's for a season and for a reason. Once I achieve this, then it makes the loneliness worth it. So that's the second thing, a deep sense of vision, a deep sense of vision. The third thing is self-awareness and self-alignment. What I mean by that is some people are feeling lonely today because they're in wrong environments. They are not living out their own dreams. They're doing things for other people and they are not maximizing their talents, their abilities. They are trying to force themselves to be fish out of water. So the degree to which you are aligned with your skills, your abilities— if you are a product person, if you are a creative person, be more in line and in touch with your creative side. If you are a process person, be more in line. So there's that self-awareness that lets you know, oh, I am a fish and I'm feeling lonely because I'm not in a river. If I'm a fish, I need to be in a river. So you're not trying to change yourself from a fish to a cow, you're trying to find a river, knowing that the day I find my river— viable seed in viable soil— I will not feel lonely. So that's very important in terms of alignment. Then of course, also in terms of purpose, many people feel lonely because their lives are not blessing any other person. If you know that this loneliness is birthing something in somebody else— as a man, we're designed to be sacrificial, we are designed to be protectors. We get our meaning knowing that we're showing up for the people that we love. So it gives meaning to that loneliness. And then lastly is brotherhood and, and, and relationship. What I mean is the relationship with your woman and the relationship with your brothers. Yeah, let's start from the relationship with the woman, and that opens up a series of questions. Why do men choose women that don't fill their cup? You see a man surrounded with many friends, a single man, female friends. This is what he likes spending time with. This is the one that if he gets a salary raise, she knows. If his boss is behaving somehow, she knows. Or maybe she doesn't fit his description of beauty. Then there's another lady somewhere that he has been toasting for 5 years that hasn't been giving him face, and he feels, I may haunt her. He says she's just playing hard to get. And so you force yourself on that one. Maybe you use your money, status to get her attention, but she doesn't fill your cup, but she fits the picture of the kind of woman you think you want.

Let's get the issue of the cup. Yeah, in what sense do you say that?

Um, so there are 3 levels to it. In my mind, there's the cup of chemistry, attraction, and pleasure. That's one level. You should be with somebody that excites you. You should be with somebody that when they walk through the door, you're like, hey, pay attention to the women that excite you, that there's chemistry, there's attraction. The second is compatibility, alignment, peace. The third is commitment, assignment, and purpose. So most people, when they want to get married, they look at commitment, assignment, and purpose. So the man looks and says, oh, I'm going to be a corporate titan, I need a woman who looks like this. He's only looking at his purpose, his assignment, and saying, because a man is committed to his purpose, I will always be committed to my purpose.

Chemistry—

he's ignoring chemistry, attraction, and pleasure. That's one. Or he's ignoring compatibility, alignment, and peace. Because there are some people who are in relationships that are so tumultuous. The volatility curve of that relationship is always intense. When they are fighting, they are really fighting. All their friends know they are fighting. This conversation is— When they are at peace, they are really— When they are happy, they are really excited, but you never see them enjoy that boring landscape of just calmness.

Yeah.

So you always see them, they're always going for dinner. Exactly. It's either high on the, on the mountaintop or deep in the valley. That's madness. So after you look at chemistry and you look at attraction and you look at pleasure, you should also look at compatibility, alignment, and peace. When this person enters, If the excitement is too much, there's a problem. If the adrenaline is too much, there's a problem. So you have to look at, is this person my peace? When I'm with this person, can I sleep off? Can I snore? Can I fart? You've been in a relationship for 3 years, you've never farted. What do you think you do when you're married?

Use cabbage.

You've been in a relationship as a lady, you're always cooking for the guy. What will you do when you are pregnant as his wife and you can't cook?

Wow.

Is there peace?

You are forming for the person you are married to.

And when you now marry and you are finished, you know there's no campaign after election. When you're not in power, you now show your true self. Because you say— so I feel that we need to teach believers on nervous system regulation. Sir, do you have friends that immediately they show up, male friends, this is not a gender thing, as they just show through the door, you start smiling?

One of the idiots is downstairs.

You see, one of the idiots. So this is why you're calling me— the person that you love the most, you're calling him idiot. He knows that that idiot is a bigger name than my dear friend and brother. Is a bigger name than that. Because the number of people you call idiots in your life, they're not so many.

They are not so many.

Thank you. So You can't call your baby idiot. I'm not saying you should call her idiot. I'm just saying that. So you always say, my dear friend and brother. A dear friend and brother, you will not call him dear friend and brother. Dear friend and brother, you call him idiot.

True.

You look at him, and even if you don't call him idiot, you say, this one serious fellow. My friend shift. So if you have not reached that level of vulnerability with a person, how you now marry the person? And you were never taught. The only thing they told you, she must be a virgin. And now you have your virginity. And, and I'm not against purity culture, please don't get me wrong.

Purity is very important.

We have just made purity culture to supply what it was not designed to supply. Purity culture teaches you discipline, it teaches you self-control. That's it. It teaches you honor for God.

We also should not forget that another reason why some men marry women who can't fill their cup is that they marry what they can control. Okay, I'm— they marry a woman, they feel this one is beautiful, this one is smart, this one is this, she's too intelligent for a home, then they go for the one they can bully around.

Okay, so you want your children to be raised by a dull woman?

There are men who want— they don't care who raised the child. What they care is a woman they can dominate.

And start to come—

and that's where the patriarchal thing comes in.

Very true.

Why, um, and I, I say this unfortunately, I, I, unfortunately it is true that we have not tried, not just as a community, in building safe space for women in the sense that it looks like everything rise and falls on the woman. The man is cheating is the woman's fault. The man is doing this is the woman's fault. The man is beating her, she should go and pray for him. The man is doing that, please intercede for him. I don't really think it is fair. It doesn't seem to be things that put the person— do you understand what I'm saying— in the place of responsibility?

I think that reducing the responsibility of a man to his ability to provide is one of the greatest disservices we've done to society, family, and society.

True.

Because once a man is providing, to a large extent he's exempted from other responsibilities. So you hear them say something like, eh, he pays the school fees, eh, he puts a roof over your head. And this is why once women become financially empowered, they show their true colors, because you told them the person who can pay the bills can misbehave and get away with it.

Yeah.

And as we move to a culture and a civilization that is dependent on making money through intellect, which is not gender-based.

Uh-huh.

So 30 years ago, you needed to make money not just through intellect. Now a woman can be a remote worker, freelancer. And she said, "Toh, I pay my bills, so now let me get away with anything." What do you now say next? Because you made them believe that once you can respond financially, then you are entitled to having your own way. That's why you hear a man say, "Don't take the woman abroad." No! It's not about taking her abroad. It's because when she's abroad and she starts to earn like you, she starts to behave exactly like you, and you don't like it. And I say, when we're in Nigeria— no, any principle that is limited to a cultural context is not a principle. Principles are universally applicable. So men today have to start asking themselves, number one, if I was not providing financially, what else do I provide? If I was marrying Dangote's daughter, how would I ensure submission? Because then you can't, you can't use money. Then it now dawns on the man that you have to provide vision. You have to look at that woman and say, this is a picture of who you can be when I'm in your life. You have to provide support, you have to provide safety, you have to provide capacity. You have to provide anchoring. You have to provide emotional boundaries. These are the things that I'm learning that are so hard for me, but I'm trying to do it every day. You have to be able to listen to a woman pour out her emotions to you and not feel attacked. So many men were not taught this. And let me tell you another dilemma of men. The men in this generation— I may be wrong— But the men in this generation are better behaved than the men in previous generations. Here you have men that bath their children. Here you have men that bath their children. Here you have men that cook for their children. Here you have men that take their children to school. We didn't have that in the generations prior to now.

So much impunity in that generation.

Yes, and they were treated better. The older generation were— and I said this every sense of respect— they were more badly behaved and they got more submission and respect. So the men in this generation are like, I'm doing things my father didn't do, and yet they're not giving me my flowers. And women are like, you have not done anything that warrants flowers. So we compare ourselves to the previous generation instead of comparing ourselves to the portrait of what a real man is beyond just financial provision. And these are some of the things we say to ourselves at Becoming Better Men. We tell ourselves the truth. Yeah, we will not lie to ourselves.

How can people be a part of Become Better Men?

Okay, so, um, we have our IG page where they can follow us on, and then we have our monthly meetings that are starting from next month. And then we have our final—

is there a venue yet?

Um, no, no, not yet. But once they just—

how many people do you look at gathering?

Um, so the last one we had about— this time around, if we can do— because it has to be small safe spaces.

No, small—

but yeah, small safe spaces. So we break up into small safe spaces. But we can have the general, um, meet up meeting to have like 500 to 800 men, I think.

But the small safe spaces, how many?

The small safe spaces, typically we're looking at 30, 30, 40.

So let me just— I mean, the studio here is available for you.

Oh, fantastic. I would love that.

Speak with the team. I would love that.

I would love that.

Yeah, very, very good.

And we have just, just have conversations of diagnosis.

We need more, more of that. And there's a question I want to ask you before you go. I know it's a lot having you here. Yes, um, for men who— they may be pastors, they may be leaders of organizations, they may be somebody's mentees or somebody's mentors, regardless of the coats that they wear, that have been carrying that void that I wish somebody told me this before I married. Now I've married someone who is not feeling this cup, and that void is killing me. For such men, what do you have to say to them?

So let me say this, and I say this with every sense of seriousness. The first thing I want to say is no human being can fill your cup.

Can fill your cup.

The filling of your cup comes from a deep sense of self-awareness of your purpose and a deep sense of connection to God. Now, I'm not saying that is all you need, but that is the foundation of what you need. As a man, you should be able to sit down in your car, in your study, play worship songs, and just talk to God, pour out yourself. And David encouraged himself in the Lord. That is the role of a man. The people you love and lead will turn against you many times. Wow. So you have to develop how to replenish yourself. I look forward to seeing men cry in worship, break down in worship before their own Heavenly Father. That's the first. The second thing is brotherhood. I'm really grateful to you that you invited me here to have these conversations. I don't take it for granted. So the mere fact that you have kindred brothers, and in brotherhood you must know that there are dynamics of ego. Someone will be richer than you. Someone will be more intelligent, more visible. Allow for it and enjoy the benefits of brotherhood. Then thirdly, that woman that you say is not feeling your call, you are focusing on what she is not doing. You are not focusing on what she's doing right. As human beings, we look at what people don't do. We look at their failings. So what you should do is As you become a softer version of yourself, all things being equal, that woman will become soft too. And over time, you can make an appeal to her that, "Come, we have found ourselves here. Can we, as we change and become better, become closer?" Because the older you get, what matters in old age is just companionship. You may not be pursuing purpose like that. You may not be exploring sexual pleasure like that. What will matter is that, that person that just makes you feel calm and just makes you feel loved and seen and peace, and say, can we do that? And then you walk towards that. And then of course, I always say this, I'm not licensing anything, but a productive happy, peaceful, purposeful version of you is better than a version of you that is broken, depressed because of somebody else's presence in your life. If it has gotten to a point where you are withering, you are wilting, and you truly know you have done your best, and the people around you that you submit to have truly seen that you have done the best, At that point, it may be good to ask yourself that, come on, am I better being out of this than being in this? Because many children are dysfunctional today because they were raised by dysfunctional parents. Wow. They never saw love modeled, they never saw respect modeled, they never saw happiness modeled, they never saw joy modeled. Why do you want to raise your children in an environment where both parties have committed themselves to be so hard-hearted that nobody's interested in being tender? Wow. That's my question today.

Before I let you go, yes, I have 4 more questions, but I'll ask one, just one, and I let you go. It's like an unwritten code in men's world that you don't say everything to a woman. How true is that?

In a young marriage, when you are just starting, it's 100% true. It is. The reason I say this is, don't tell her immediately. Tell her eventually. Ah, what I mean by that is, a woman's ability to trust you is based on promises.

Will you tell your wife if your mom doesn't like her?

So there are certain things that at that moment you look and say, if she's not aware, and she's better— it's better to seek— so I'm saying that not everybody has capacity for some disclosures. It's not a blanket rule. So you measure, judge the capacity, and test the capacity. That's why I said in a young marriage, because you don't know each other's capacity. So what you should do is number one, protect them from the outcome of their ignorance. Meaning if your mom doesn't like her, every time you relate with your mom and her, let it be obvious that you are siding her. Let it be obvious that you are protecting her so that 3, 4, 5, 7 years later when she has built stamina, you guys have been through stuff together, I say Do you know my mom doesn't really like you? She probably would have figured it out by that time. And then she wants to hold it against you. Now say, but do you remember that I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this, and now I'm telling you? She'll be like, why didn't you tell me since? And now say, because you didn't have capacity. If she's truly truthful and she has grown, she will agree with you. Mind you, forgiveness will always be a core principle of marriage. If you now say, I am sorry I didn't tell you, you, please forgive me, I acted based on XYZ. But sometimes as men, we don't want to be vulnerable. I'm the head of this home, that is how I chose to do it. No, she also makes mistakes. She also has hidden some things from you to protect you. So when you make that appeal and you give her grace, she will also give you back grace and say, okay, it's all right, it's true, I know.

Men and women, what do you think I think the most?

The person who hides things the most in a marriage is the person who has not dealt with shame. It's not a gender thing. Wow. The person who came into marriage with the most shame, sense of shame, is a person that will hide the most, is a person that will lie the most. And the person who was most self-unaware is the person that will hide and lie the most.

And that shame will mean that this one is naked and ashamed.

Yes. So what happens over time is if you find out that your spouse lies to you ask yourself, am I a judgmental person? When they opened up to me on something small, what did you say? What did you do? There was a day my daughter, um, she was playing with her tab in the night, and then when we came and I saw it, I was like, where's your tab? And as I was about to, my wife just held my hand, and then my wife just went in and spoke with her, and she told my wife everything. Then my wife came out and said She didn't mean to lie to you. Your attitude provoked the lie. And immediately she said that to me, I realized that it's true. And since that day, I've been going out of my way to laugh and just de-escalate things. And then I discovered that they started letting me know almost everything. So as I'm working on it— so there's a place of you being a safe space and de-escalating everything, and there's a place of you also Letting them know that there is no reason to be ashamed. We're in this together.

You know, one of the most interesting things about talking to you, you make your process obvious.

Yeah, because I've seen that everybody has a back end. Some people's back end is worse than others, but I've seen everybody has it. When you show up as human, yeah. People will make— yeah, people understand because at the end of the day we are all humans that God is helping. Yeah. And I will never pretend to be superhuman. Yeah. After this, you may find out some things that I've done or will do in future. I'm human. That's why I'm growing.

Wow.

And as I'm growing, I'm contributing back. The goal is to make sure, number one, we don't die, we don't kill anybody based on our mistakes, and we don't mislead another generation. But once that is fine, Abba, God has capacity for my entire human experience.

He does. I want to really thank you.

Thank you for having me, sir.

Having you on Declassified is one of the most insightful sessions.

Thank you so much, sir.

Also liberating.

Thank you, Femi Lazarus.